Listening to left wing dissent

Written By: - Date published: 7:10 am, December 16th, 2019 - 178 comments
Categories: Brexit, community democracy, democratic participation, Left, uk politics - Tags: , ,

You couldn’t pay me to vote for a right wing party, so it’s hard to imagine under what conditions someone who has traditionally voted Labour for decades would now vote for the Tories in the UK General Election. On the other hand, I can understand why the three-way standoff between traditional lefties, liberals and centrists is deeply unattractive.

It’s been edifying watching commentary from the UK on what might have gone wrong. There is the expected range of views from the left that it wasn’t our fault: it was the MSM, Corbyn, Brexit, Boomers, Blairites, ABU (anyone but us). These often have sound reasoning behind them, but they’re not sufficient.

What stands out for me are the voices of the people who are saying actually, there were solid reasons for abandoning Labour, this is why I did. There’s something important here about really listening to dissent and being willing to engage with views that don’t necessarily make immediate sense in the context of our own personal ideologies.

Bearing in mind that many of the policies in Labour’s manifesto were very popular, and that this list isn’t intended as a comprehensive view, or definitive explanation, but here are some of the takes I’ve found most thought-provoking.

Stability matters. A short vid of lifelong Labour voter Henry talking about why he voted Conservative,

https://twitter.com/Frau_Deutsch_/status/1205777084397891584

What I hear from this man: he wants a government with the kind of stability you get from unity and doesn’t trust a Labour that is internally divided.

We see this value around stability in NZ with the tendency to vote more conservatively after an emergency (Chch2), or where people shy away from chaos and towards perceptions of competency (Greens and Labour respectively in the 2017 election), or where the radical edge isn’t trusted with parliamentary power even where there is support for policy (low vote for any of the left of Labour parties or even radical centrist parties like TOP).

Lefties like myself who see radical change as being a fundamental requirement for addressing large, intractable issues like the housing crisis or climate change often ignore that most people are naturally resistant to upheaval even when there is a perceived reward. I don’t think this necessarily means that the left has to resign itself to centrism, but maybe the people who want to smash capitalism could spend some time talking with the people who fear what would happen to them if we did, and find the common ground.

Culture matters. The lack of empathy comment from the young liberal woman in the video, it’s not that she is wrong, it’s that they’re both right but she is probably the one with the lesser ability to understand or accept the other. If the young liberal woman represents modern Labour, she exemplifies a kind of cultural blindness to why people legitimately feel Labour doesn’t serve them. For many people politics is about a good cultural fit, and there’s plenty of analysis about the problems with Labour parties generally on that regard. It also stood out to me that the man talked about voting with his heart and his discomfit with being a laughing stock over Brexit. For a party intent on identity politics, it’s weird that some people’s sense of belonging is so resoundingly ignored.

Brexit matters. Some of the solid Labour electorates in the north voted Leave in the original referendum. They’ve just voted Leave again.

https://twitter.com/craigblackoreyt/status/1205311700389511177

https://twitter.com/craigblackoreyt/status/1205351282552254466

While the Brexit campaign ran on a dangerous xenophobic, racist, and divisive platform it doesn’t mean that class wasn’t a driver for many voters, nor that liberals didn’t drop the ball from their own bias in ignoring class as a core issue.

From my green edge perspective Brexit always looked like the one rare chance the UK had of stopping or at least slowing the happy death cult of neoliberalism. My main memory of the original Brexit referendum was the impression of liberals all freaking out about how terrible it would be to lose privileges like the freedom to travel at will, without offering any solution to the genuine issues of social and economic decay that neoliberalism was generating. Or even any real acknowledgement that class issues might be legitimate.

Political education matters. This was one of the more heart-wrenching things I read,

https://twitter.com/LukePagarani/status/1205489614556979207

There’s both great sadness and great hope in that, but it does make me wonder how there is such a large part of the working class that is non-political. How did that even happen?

That whole twitter thread is an eyeopener, with some challenging ideas about older white English people and their role in holding on to political and social hegemony.

Journalism matters. Yes, yes, there are massive problems with the MSM and social media giants. In addition, there is this,

https://twitter.com/sarahditum/status/1205515711403188225

And this is why the failure of Labour is a failure of journalism. Too much of the material that gets published under Left-wing mastheads is written by the Left, to the Left, under the assumption that there is an imaginary public out there who will automatically agree with their politics if only they are presented with them. (Owen Jones, king of this tendency, offered this on the eve of the election: “Young people have been hit hard. Now they can rise up and reject Johnson.” The young people declined.)

There’s a tendency for the left to blame centre lefties for the failure of Labour parties, but I don’t think any position on the left is without responsibility here where we are insisting that people should adopt our beliefs.  I’m not arguing for abandonment of progressive values. I’m suggesting that the liberal project is on the verge of failing, and that we cannot rely on ‘social progress is inevitable’. Nor can we carry on with the strategy that we can force people on board.

What we probably need is to build relationships across social and political difference. The Pākehā left has a lot to learn from Māori in this regard. He aha te mea nui o te ao? He tāngata, he tāngata, he tāngata.

Update: post-election poll on why people didn’t vote Labour is here.

178 comments on “Listening to left wing dissent ”

  1. weka 1

    btw, those that want to run a 'I know the single cause' line, might want to have a look at this poll out two days after the election. (Omitted from post because of length). Polls are pretty blunt instruments, and I haven't looked closely at the methodology and questions here, but I think we are better served by nuance.

    (sticking this to the top of comments after a number of single cause comments).

    https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1205517267213131776

    • Nic the NZer 1.1

      There is a big problem with interpretation of polls especially in FPP electoral systems. What matters for the election outcome is not the over-all aggregate favourite but the aggregate favourite by constituancy.

      By something called a Simpson's paradox the overall aggregate result (what is the most relevant issue in this poll) does not need to be the same as the result when broken up by into categories (say category by constitiuancy).

      For an intuition of how this comes about this is similar to the US election being won by the candidate with fewer popular votes.

      • weka 1.1.1

        Are you saying that the poll would be more useful if it reported the same questions asked in each electorate? In which case I agree. I'm guessing the questions were relatively simplistic too.

        • Nic the NZer 1.1.1.1

          It might be more useful. It would also require more respondents or have much higher margins of error to do so.

          When Simpson's paradoxes occur in scientific statistics there is no way to determine which aggregate categorisation in right. You pick one based on which model you think is correct. With FPP elections we know its per electorate at least.

          Its just worth understanding that the weightings of which issue are important to the average voter may differ from the issue which cost/benefited you in the most electorates.

        • Nic the NZer 1.1.1.2

          Also, something I think the right wing have been very successful at is finding a wedge issue and making the narrative primarily about that issue. It could be that its a lot easier to identify what issue splits your political opponents rather than which issues generate broad support.

    • mauī 1.2

      The major swings in polls leading up to the election are pretty clearly based around Brexit related events. The newly formed Brexit party running on a single issue had 25% of the vote just a few months ago. You can't tell me that anything surrounding the Labour leadership was having anything like that kind of effect.

  2. Sanctuary 2

    So I went away for a lovely weekend with my partner but here is my take today on the UK election, for whatever it is worth.

    The gloating from centrist remainers (including our own version of them here) at the Labour defeat has been extraordinary, and the meta one can take from that is it speaks to how threatened by Corbynism these very important heroes of received common sense have felt everywhere. The economic assumptions that underpin their incomes and their cultural/political relevance has been challenged. They have responded to that by making common cause with the right to destroy the threat. The left is constantly doomed to being surprised by the vehemence of class privilege in protecting itself. Socialism never finds its friends in the middle class.

    The other thing is that despite the Lib-Dems getting destroyed and every "sensible" centrist who abandoned Labour in fits of histronics after their leaking, downright disloyalty and coups against Corbyn failed lost their seats the entire liberal press remains establishment Lib-Dems in outlook and they'll now seek to enable the destruction socialism in Labour.

    UK Labour lost because Leave Labour voters in the North stayed home in droves and the Brexit party vote collapsed into the conservatives. Thats it in a nutshell. The narrative from the middle class press will be Workington man abandoned Labour because it has lost touch with the the working class, but the reality is the remainers who demanded Labour pivot to a second referendum and split the party in their dogmatic insistance Labour become a remain party handed this massive majority to the Tories. Not only did the factionalism of the extreme centre (The Tiggers, the independents, the virulent and flagrant disloyalty of the anti-Corbynites, the warmed over Blairites hijacking and dividing the remain camp, the orange Lib-Dems and their mates in the Lib-Dem press supporting a centre that no longer has a constituency) split the centre-left vote , their forcing Labour into a second referndum postion also forced Labour to fight an election on the issue where the party was weakest, and handed the northern leave seats to the Tories.

    Jeremy Corbyn was an issue with voters. Clearly the years of unrelentling character assassination and smearing worked. I doubt changing him will make much difference. Milliband, Brown, Neil Kinnock and Michael Foot were all subject to similar smears and character assassinations that affected their popularity. Only Thatchers greatest achievement – Tony Blair – was not subject to massive character assassination.

    Finally, Britain is now pretty fucked. The establishment has been revealed as both decadent and unreformable. The future for the UK appears to be a slide into an increasingly unequal, quasi third world authoritarian surveillance state. The centre has collapsed in British politics and the current political climate could be best described as one of toxic disaster nationalism. The Tories reinvented themselves along the lines of the Australian Liberal Party and the US Republican party and like them has become a party of nascent fascism.

    What lesson for us? Well, it is obvious Simon Bridges is well along the path to reinventing the NZ National party along the same lines as the UK Tories, who have reinvented themselves as the party of nativist anger, English exceptionalism, xenophobia and empire fantasists (how else can you explain a transport policy that includes fining cyclists as a headline centre piece? that isn't policy, it is baiting angry drivers into a culture war againt cyclists).

    NZ Labour needs to understand that Bridges is trying to create the same toxic culture war here that has enabled the far right overseas and has delivered extremist conservative governments in three out of the four elections (Australia, USA, UK and Canada) held in anglosphere countries so far, and come up with a counter ASAP.

    • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 2.1

      "Finally, Britain is now pretty fucked. The establishment has been revealed as both decadent and unreformable. The future for the UK appears to be a slide into an increasingly unequal, quasi third world authoritarian surveillance state."

      Airstrip One ?

    • Anne 2.2

      Absolutely and unequivocally agree Sanctuary.

      In a nutshell:

      Labour working class (which is most of them even if they won't admit it) have been taken for one bloody big ride by the Tories and, along with the years and years of character assassination of Labour by the tabloid press and others, many lost their marbles and capitulated.

      Yes, it was helped along the way by some of Labour's own members who were more interested in themselves rather than the party and country. Looks like most of them have been sent packing and good riddance to them.

      Maybe now Labour can get a new leader – preferably a woman – who can unite them and bring them back to where they once were – a party for all Brits and not just the chosen few. It shouldn't be too hard given what probably lies ahead of them.

    • Molly 2.3

      "The gloating from centrist remainers (including our own version of them here) at the Labour defeat has been extraordinary, and the meta one can take from that is it speaks to how threatened by Corbynism these very important heroes of received common sense have felt everywhere. The economic assumptions that underpin their incomes and their cultural/political relevance has been challenged. They have responded to that by making common cause with the right to destroy the threat. The left is constantly doomed to being surprised by the vehemence of class privilege in protecting itself. Socialism never finds its friends in the middle class."

      I agree with this entirely.

      Added to that is the arrogance shown by many of the remainers – similar to that shown to Trump supporters – that disdains their voting choice so much, that refusal to even comprehend why such votes were cast – works to build a wider divide.

      There were many in Britain that have seen their prospects for employment, housing and an enjoyable life be diminished over the last twenty or so years. This would be true for many in the US. What has been on offer is more of the same. The end result of the voters dividing themselves into factions has manifested in the victory of both Trump and Johnson. It is not the result of the "far left" asking for too much, it seems to me to be the result of many players not listening at all. And many of those players are currently comfortable and unwilling to give audience to those that are not.

      Corbyn – and whoever replaces him if they are not another Blairite – will always be subjected to a smear campaign from the establishment and most of the media. The fact that many within the Labour party persisted in joining that project, despite the membership indicating their preference, twice, is an indication of how self-serving many politicians are.

      I wouldn't have voted for Trump – but understand why many did. I probably would have voted for Brexit, because I think the devolution of sovereignty happens in such a way, and the economic benefits and freedom of movement has not been evenly distributed.

      The immediate reaction of the remainers to the referendum was often arrogant and demeaning, and created a divide in the media reporting that is hard to see a resolution to. The denigration apparent in the media to Trump supporters also ignores the fact that there may be many reasons that they despaired over seeing improvement so much that they voted him in.

      Corbyn, despite his personal view, took the party line over Brexit and included that in his policy. He also made reference to uniting the country, something no other political animal in this current time would do, given the propensity to work on people's prejudices and bias to get votes. (Adern's reaction to Turei during the election campaign shows how expected and effective this is.) The Overton window has opened discussion about many issues, precisely because of Jeremy Corbyn's political movement and policy announcements. This is progress, and it requires the input of many, not the few – to get further traction. Which is how it should be.

  3. Sanctuary 3

    Just BTW – Sarah Ditum writes for the News Statesman, which should tell you everything you need to know about her perspective.

  4. Buster12 4

    If they got rid of Corbin after the last election they possibly may of beaten bojo. But nope they listened to the circle jerk that is twitter and nowblook certain to lose the next couple of elections.

    • Sanctuary 4.1

      Who is "Corbin" you semi-literate twat?

    • KJT 4.2

      You really think Labour would have beaten Bojo, with all the middle class "remainers", in Labour pissing off their Northern voters?

      Not to mention the establishment Labour MP's and even establishment, middle class "lefties" unrelentingly bagging Corbyn

    • mikesh 4.3

      Get rid of Corbin (sic) after the last election? Really? When, contrary to expectations, he came close to winning?

      I would think the results of the next two elections would be unpredictable a this stage, given that brexit will soon be no longer an an issue.

      • Nic the NZer 4.3.1

        Of course dump Corbyn now and give up. Remember, once brexit is not the main election item Momentum will be much stronger in Labour. If the 'right' lesson isn't learned from this election then the left might take over UK Labour.

  5. Sacha 5

    RNZ Morning Report interviewed a politics professor from Nottingham about UK Labour losing its traditional but Brexit-supporting northern seats (6m) https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018727062/uk-labour-s-red-wall-crumbles-in-heavy-election-defeat

    I heard someone else in passing this morning saying it was Labour's voters staying home rather than switching to another party. Someone else may have a link about that, but it fits with past NZ elections.

  6. Stuart Munro. 6

    I tend to view the troubles of the Left as quality assurance issues, which always create a bit of difficulty when they involve less than perfectly concrete issues.

    Because the wealthy are a small and decreasing minority in our society, electoral problems on the Left indicate a failure to address the core concerns of their constituency.

    It tends to happen because those concerns are not acceptable to our ostensible representatives – Brexit in the UK and mass immigration in NZ are cleavage points between the middle class and mass left. Failing to address these issues clearly and meaningfully is potentially electorally fatal. They make poor hills for the Left to die on.

    • Sanctuary 6.1

      I guess Ash Sarkar and Sarah Ditum – two well educated, London living women – bitterly arguing about who better understands northern working class men kinda sums up the utter cluelessness of the British media class. And I say that as a big fan of Ash Sarkar.

  7. Climaction 7

    a dry, incisive and intellectual look at the issues facing the left in the UK general election Weka.

    Thank you for this.

    Far better than the piece DPF has done from a conservative viewpoint over on kiwiblog.

    [I see that you have failed to respond to repeated moderation requests and somehow slipped through the Pre-Moderation filter. Unfortunately, for you, I try to be consistent and can be very persistent. Take three weeks off, a week for each assertion you made without supporting link, even when prompted. I’d also suggest you take this on the chin because you have wasted too much moderation time already and you have shown disrespect for my patience towards you. In other words, you got off lightly – Incognito]

    [“I can’t find all these mod requests? can you please provide a link. the only one i did find i replied too.”

    Are you kidding me? When I moderate, I always leave a reply and all you need to do is read the replies to your comments. Only trolls spray and walk away. Anyway, because you said “please”: https://thestandard.org.nz/the-freedom-to-lie-during-an-election-campaign/#comment-1672444, https://thestandard.org.nz/the-freedom-to-lie-during-an-election-campaign/#comment-1672478, https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-12-2019/#comment-1672874, https://thestandard.org.nz/the-freedom-to-lie-during-an-election-campaign/#comment-1672999 – Incognito]

    • Incognito 7.1

      See my Moderation note @ 8:53 AM.

    • Paddington 7.2

      Weka's commentary is very good, but don't be in such a hurry to dismiss DPF's piece. He rightly identifies two of the key issues as 1. Brexit and 2. the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn ("Jeremy Corbyn was a uniquely awful opponent"), which ties in with Weka's follow up comment here https://thestandard.org.nz/listening-to-left-wing-dissent/#comment-1673663.

      • Bearded Git 7.2.1

        …and when they asked people what they didn't like about Corbyn they would say:

        1. His position on Brexit-so this should be added to the "Brexit" reason why they did not vote Labour and taken off the "Corbyn" reason.

        2. Corbyn's antisemitism-which was a myth created and perpetuated by numerous lies in the right-wing media as a slur against Corbyn.

        I do think that the issue of immigration, and Boris's promise to clamp down on this played very well to the Labour voters. While this is also part of Brexit, it is a big issue in northern towns with the perception they were full of Polish plumbers.

        • Paddington 7.2.1.1

          1. Agreed.

          2. If, and I say if, the narrative about Jeremy Corbyn being anti-semitic was a "myth created and perpetuated by numerous lies in the right-wing media", then he did a really poor job refuting it. Perhaps that's because that narrative originated from within the party itself, rather than the right wing media.

          • Nic the NZer 7.2.1.1.1

            Funny thing about proving the negative 'Corbyn is not antisemitic'. Turns out its virtually impossible. Where as proving a positive only fails due to there being no evidence what-so-ever of it being true.

            • Paddington 7.2.1.1.1.1

              You are right about proving a negative, of course, however here's the problem. The UK Labour Party has had problems with anti-semitism, and these problems are being openly exposed by people within the party, and seem to have becoem worse under Corbyn's leadership (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/anti-semitism-claims-hound-u-k-s-labour-party-despite-n781621).

              • McFlock

                I think it got worse post-dolt45 and with the brexit jingoism. Fuckwits generally feel more comfortable to express themselves openly.

                But Labour failed to come down on it like a ton of bricks, and it festered away. Think University of Auckland's denialism as opposed to Auckland transport's zero tolerance.

                I'm not even sure how much power Corbyn had to deal with e.g. comments in branch meetings. There is a systemic issue in UK Labour that pissed off some members and was exploited happily by the tories, including trying as hard as possible to transfer that problem over to Corbyn personally, in my opinion.

                • Paddington

                  Good points. I'm not a fan of Corbyn or his politics, but once a label like 'anti-semitism' is thrown around, and when some within his own party doing the 'throwing', no amount of teflon is enough.

                  • McFlock

                    Well, they're pushing shit uphill throwing that label at Sanders, because it's not valid at all.

                    But when members at all levels were complaining about antisemitism and their complaints not being addressed, that was a mud pit Corbyn was standing close to.

                    Every party has dickheads turning up. The question is whether those dickheads have been tacitly accepted, or challenged when their dickheadedness has come to the fore. I've been at branch meetings where someone has made excellent points, then suddenly takes a turn towards bad territory (racism, calls for violence, whatever) – you know you're in a good party when the tone of the audience goes from agreement to "no" when a speaker starts going into that territory.

              • Nic the NZer

                Good, so we have already established that this is based on an evidence free smear campaign against Jeremy Corbyn. You've already come a long way.

                • Paddington

                  One of the comments I was responding to was the claim that Jeremy Corbyn being anti-semitic was a "myth created and perpetuated by numerous lies in the right-wing media".

                  My point is that claims of anti-semitism have come from inside the Labour Party, and appear to have become worse under Corbyn's leadership. That isn't 'evidence', as such, of Corbyn's anti-semitism, however it is evidence that, if it is a myth, not all of the blame can be laid at the feet of the right-wing media.

          • SPC 7.2.1.1.2

            Two factions in the caucus wanted Corbyn gone.

            Neither wanted the party controlled by the left wing membership. One used blocking Brexit and getting the voters to punish Corbyn for this to get back control of the leadership of the party. The other assisted them because they knew the left of the Labour Party was the only one criticising Israel and opposing annexation of 1967 occupied territory. They provided the Blairites and the MSM with an excuse for their attacks.

    • Incognito 7.3

      See my second Moderation note @ 8:53 AM.

  8. For the most part I agree with your post, but don't follow this bit:

    From my green edge perspective Brexit always looked like the one rare chance the UK had of stopping or at least slowing the happy death cult of neoliberalism.

    I keep seeing this from Brexit supporters on the left, but don't see how it makes sense. The Brexit referendum was an artifact of Tory concerns that the EU is too much of a brake on neoliberalism, and during the referendum campaign the right spent a lot of money on propaganda lies in support of Brexit exactly because it would remove that perceived brake on neo-liberalism. The outcome of Brexit is going to be massive gains for UK neoliberals at the expense of the "commoners," and the removal of the UK from any climate change reduction measures the EU may implement. So, how was the referendum ever an opportunity to stop or slow down neoliberalism?

    • Nic the NZer 8.1

      The EU in itself need not be a neoliberal institution, however the Eurozone project and the way the European states run economic policy are.

      For examples the EU is still in the process of negotiating a trade deal which will be enforced on the members with little ability for states to resist.

      In line with the Labour manifesto many forms of industry nationalisation are prevented.

      And you may think the Eurozone is irrelevant to the UK, until your a country like Scotland who may want to join independently.

      Since we probably dont share a definition of neoliberalism you can take mine to be, the running of all institutions with the profit motive as a primary responsibility. The EUs preferred economic policy is all about that.

    • weka 8.2

      I'm not sure it was/is, but there was/is a chance that it might nobble the UK economy and slow growth. Not sure I would call my position a left wing support of Brexit, so much as a pointer to the problems of the left wing arguments against Brexit that suddenly seemed to be implying that neoliberalism wasn't so bad after all, hence no real plan to address it in the context of the disenfranchised Brits. In that sense the vote on Thurs makes a lot more sense, not because people were thinking this line, but because they could see that Remain was going to ignore them, again.

      There's some kind of sorting mechanism there, where the people that say that neoliberalism is bad for people don't seem to make the connection with the things they want from Remain being the things that neoliberalism enables (growth and climate destroying standards of living being the obvious ones). Or maybe I'm over-estimating the left wing criticism of neoliberalism.

      • pat 8.2.1

        " Or maybe I'm over-estimating the left wing criticism of neoliberalism."

        Suspect its more a case of over estimating the depth of engagement of the majority of voters, left, right or centre

      • Psycho Milt 8.2.2

        In that sense the vote on Thurs makes a lot more sense, not because people were thinking this line, but because they could see that Remain was going to ignore them, again.

        I hadn't thought of it like that, and yes it does make sense. I've been thinking in terms of Brexit being bad for working class Brits in various ways and it therefore being counter-intuitive for them to support it, but if a working class person's assessment of the arguments against Brexit amount to "the rest of us were happy with the status quo that was causing you such problems and we'd like that status quo to remain in place," voting for that status quo to continue would have no appeal at all.

        • weka 8.2.2.1

          Yep, that's how I'm reading it. As a middle class person whose disability has meant I've had one foot in the underclass for several decades because of neoliberal policies from both Labour and National, I have more sympathy for the position than many other liberals.

    • weka 8.3

      Btw PM, thanks for reading that actual post and responding to that.

      • Anne 8.3.1

        weka I read your post but don’t fully agree with your take on the linked interview.

        Imo, the gentleman proved my point @ 2.2. He had lost the plot. There he was essentially blaming Labour for the parlous state of the country while giving his vote to the very people who were responsible.

        Ok, its not quite that simple and sectors within Labour played a major role in destroying their chance of success, but I've been down the road of ongoing character assassination and I know how easy it is to convince people of a lie/lies – even among those who should know better.

        As for the young woman, she came across as genuinely shocked and in a brief interview like that was not given a chance to properly explain why.

        I agree with Pat @8.2.1. It happens here too. Labour and other centre-left parties always over-estimate the depth of engagement of the majority of voters. They produce lengthy manifestos and expect the voters will read them and no-one does. They get on telly/radio and fire away on all cylinders with detailed versions about what they plan to do and expect viewers and listeners to listen and no-one does – except for a dedicated few.

        Helen Clark had the right idea – a pledge card with half a dozen sound-bites. Yes, it was not without subsequent controversy but that's another story and was based on Nat “mis-truths” anyway.

        • weka 8.3.1.1

          Imo, the gentleman proved my point @ 2.2. He had lost the plot. There he was essentially blaming Labour for the parlous state of the country while giving his vote to the very people who were responsible.

          I didn't hear him blaming Labour for the state of the country, I heard him blaming Labour for the state of Labour, and saying he wasn't wanting to trust them to be in govt. I disagree with him (I think whatever Labour's level of competency, they're not going to fail as a govt), but the point here isn't what I think. It's what he thinks and what he does with his vote.

          Lefties calling him deluded is hardly likely to entice him to voting Labour again.

          I also think that while I support Corbyn's policy agenda, you can't force people to that, and the big issue here is the failure to get more people on board. Again, saying they've lost the plot and were stupidly susceptible to propaganda doesn't strike me as a way to win them back. We're not talking swing voters here, we're talking core Labour vote.

        • weka 8.3.1.2

          Re the young woman, you did get that I said both her and the older man were right, right?

          The problem is that the identity politics, liberal side of Labour are not listening to the more conservative side, and this is causing problems. Even worse, you should see how scathing some of the Labour-voting, socialist lefties are of Owen Jones, Momentum and so on at the moment.

          It's really complex, and I think the lack of ability to accommodate difference is going to be a huge problem going forward.

          • Anne 8.3.1.2.1

            Yes, but by blaming Labour for the state of Labour he was ignoring the reasons behind the perceived "state of Labour". Setting aside the bickering and undermining by the Blairites et al, the reasons were external and based on lies, innuendo and sabotage. That is where he "lost the plot". I used that expression not in the sense he was stupid or deluded – he didn't come across as either – but rather it is an unfortunate truism. However in the meelee of media generated claims and counter claims it's not surprising. He was conned might have been a better way of putting it.

            Yes, I saw your comment about both being right. The young woman looked a nice person who was obviously upset so I was just trying to give her a bit of leeway.

            I agree with your analysis more than I disagree. I usually do.

            • weka 8.3.1.2.1.1

              What I'm suggesting is that in addition to the massive problems with the MSM and propaganda machines, we also acknowledge that the divisions in UK Labour matter to a significant chunk of voters and that we start listening instead of marginalising that.

              You might see those voters as conned, but I think it's still a patronising approach unlikely to endear them to voting Labour again. In terms of losing the plot, I think he read the novel and came to different conclusions than you and I, presumably because he has a different set of values and ways of making sense of the world. My argument here is that instead of framing those people as wrong, we allow them their politics and instead look at how to work across that difference.

              It's a basic principle of treating people as we would want to be treated.

              Yes, the interview of both was very short. A springboard for discussion.

              • Anne

                It was not my intention to sound patronising. All I was trying to point out is that – whether we like it or not – a lot of people seem to have got the situation wrong. It was not their fault because they had so much crap flung at them, it isn't surprising they became confused. If, I'd been in their shoes I would have been confused too.

                And I agree with the comment in your post:

                The lack of empathy comment from the young liberal woman in the video, it’s not that she is wrong, it’s that they’re both right but she is probably the one with the lesser ability to understand or accept the other.

                I put that down to youth, lack of experience and a genuine misunderstanding which will probably correct itself in time.

                • weka

                  It was not my intention to sound patronising. All I was trying to point out is that – whether we like it or not – a lot of people seem to have got the situation wrong. It was not their fault because they had so much crap flung at them, it isn't surprising they became confused. If, I'd been in their shoes I would have been confused too.

                  I'm sure it's not your intention to be patronising Anne. I guess I don't get how you can be basically saying that they were duped and not see that as patronising. I'm sure that there are people who weren't paying attention and just were influenced by the lies and MSM bias. But to suggest that all those people who voted Labour in the past and didn't this time were somehow stupid, rather than having legitimate reasons, seems hugely problematic. I don't see how this will lead to people voting Labour again. If the hope is that the left can somehow now control the MSM and social media, I think we're fucked. I think our hope lies in building bridges with people who are eg swing voters so that there is more trust. Otherwise it looks like telling them their concerns don't matter.

                  • Anne

                    Have you never been duped weka? I have. More than once. It can have a devastating effect too once you realise you've been conned. And I'm not stupid. Nor are most of the people I have known who also succumbed to liars, scoundrels and thugs of one kind or another.

                    If you've been the victim of all three its easy to see how others can be easily fooled. It has little to do with stupidity as anyone who has been on the receiving end could tell you. It happens just as much in politics as any other walk of life.

                    oops: quick amendment. There are stupid people who spend their lives being conned and never know it. They can be found in all walks of life but it’s not them i’m talking about.

                    • weka

                      When you were duped were all the people around you also?

                      I guess the point of difference here is that I'm not willing to assume that most of the people who shifted their vote from Labour were duped, nor why we might want to assume that any individual has been eg the man in the video. I can't see any evidence for that. He may well have been, or his concerns might be legitimate.

        • RedLogix 8.3.1.3

          And as it happens I still have a full set of those pledge cards Anne devil

    • SPC 9.1

      Yup so Owen Jones was right about the left mobilising the young to supporting Labour.

      The only reason why their 2019 vote was higher than 2015 and 2010 – after the internal division within the caucus opposed to Corbyn's leadership.

  9. Jimmy 10

    I don't know much about UK politics, but it seems to me that while Labour had Jeremy Corbyn as leader, they never really had a chance. In fact, is it comparable to here in NZ when Andrew Little was leading Labour, I think if he had lead Labour in to the 2017 election, we would now definitely have a National lead government. I presume UK Labour have no person like Jacinda to 'save' them.

    • soddenleaf 10.1

      Labour wasn't clear that's why we got a coalition. Johnson kept it simple, get brexit done fed into the propaganda of election fatigue and spend up on the NHS fed into the winter stay at home Labour voter. Labour doesn't have a game, either here or the UK.

      I, after a few days of thought, had a little chuckle because this was the best outcome. Aside, of course, Johnston giving the two finger salute to all those who stayed at home and effectively voted for him. But hey you can see why he is grumpy, he can't got far off the center with so many bleeding new MPs trying to w in over former Labour seats…

      And then on Scotland, they won but lost, they lost as one everyone is going to want to sit around for a decade to see how Brexit shakes out. Sure position yourself angry so London busy your silence, but hey, it's all good for the union.

      So I chuckle, The Tories are forced to the left, locked in fearing Annoying Labour voters come out in five years. Labour, likewise, have swallowed and choked on stupid and can come out with such lines as Failed Brexit, not Brexiting fast enough, and my fav full integration referendum dump the pound, we thrust the electorate, why don't you? did your not want Brexit.

      It's always been easier to destroy, so opposition to this current false flag govt in Downing street, with only be a joy if they had any labour balls. On that issue, finally find a female leader of the UK Labour party.

      Oh, on CC, the frog isn't noticing the rising heat, and it's body is starting to shutdow, the signal to jump out of the heating pot isn't firing. Enjoy the collapse of civilization, by buying as much carbon as you can , only then will they kick themselves into action. It's the old story, good intentions is the worst kind of evil, where helping mitigates the crisis and so insures the crisis happens.

    • mikesh 10.2

      As much as I like Jacinda, I would rather see Jeremy Corbyn than her leading the NZ Labour Party. Perhaps we should ask him to emigrate.

      • Jimmy 10.2.1

        I can understand your thinking on Labour leader, but I believe if Corbyn lead the NZ Labour party, I think you would see a slide in the polls for Labour of at least 10%. I honestly believe Jacinda is that valuable to Labour but she is certainly not a traditional Labour party type leader.

        • greywarshark 10.2.1.1

          Oh dear. Getting nostalgic about 'a traditional Labour party type leader'. Define! and state last trad….leader.

          • Jimmy 10.2.1.1.1

            Helen Clark. A far stronger willed and decisive leader. If she was leader now, I think there would be a few changes eg. Twyford would no longer be there. And probably neither would ILG after the way he handled Sroubrek.

  10. mauī 11

    It's quite simple. The election was over Brexit and Labour had possibly the most stupid and odious policy of all asking people – "You know when you said you wanted to leave the EU… well, are you really, really sure you want to do that?"

    Labour sides with the elite and the Conservatives make hay with the disenfranchised vote. The Conservatives are now better positioned to become a left wing force than Labour, how pathetic is that.

    • Dennis Frank 11.1

      Very insightful, that first paragraph. Labour elite patronising the working class, apparently assuming the workers lack the emotional intelligence to notice it! So enough workers got pissed off enough to vote Tory.

      Dunno about Boris doing anything leftist tho. Centrist, yes. Workers mainly vote for govts that increase their sense of well-being, thus the old trickle-down gets recycled. Brexit will force business back into being more nimble, but new jobs take time…

  11. Siobhan 12

    I'm not normally a pedant about such things..but should we assume you meant to put speech marks around..

    "actually, there were solid reasons for abandoning Labour, this is why I did." ?

    As for Brexit..its very weird, so much narrative has been .."oh, they* regret voting leave..we should have another referendum and get the correct vote"..NOW were being told Labour lost because of the perception that they didn't support enacting leave..a situation further confused by Corbyns history of wanting to leave..there's a lot of dots around Brexit and the election and none of them really join up..

    Also interesting is the unrelentingly negative coverage of Corbyn by the press, apparently, according to the press and the establishment intellectuals, not a factor in the election…at least I've yet to see it mentioned…and they wonder why they can't attract advertising..

    https://theconversation.com/uk-election-2019-partisan-press-is-pulling-out-all-the-stops-against-labour-127133?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1574054852

    *The Poors.

    • weka 12.1

      I'm not normally a pedant about such things..but should we assume you meant to put speech marks around..

      "actually, there were solid reasons for abandoning Labour, this is why I did." ?

      Only if you don't read the whole sentence (but I'd use single quotation marks, because it's not an actual quote).

    • weka 12.2

      As for Brexit..its very weird, so much narrative has been .."oh, they* regret voting leave..we should have another referendum and get the correct vote"..NOW were being told Labour lost because of the perception that they didn't support enacting leave..a situation further confused by Corbyns history of wanting to leave..there's a lot of dots around Brexit and the election and none of them really join up..

      Which is why I was more interested in listening to the voices of people that shifted from voting Labour to something else. Even with Brexit as a driver, the reasons are going to be complex and intersecting, not simple.

      • soddenleaf 12.2.1

        What, when, Where, why, whom. Austerity, fedup, n.England, stuff them, Labour voters. The Tories saw a opportunity to go fishing, brexit. Enough Fedup, stuff the economy it ain't working for me, seized on brexit. Then last week they stayed home and collapsed the Lab vote. Labour did not take a position on Brexit, did not even try to muddy the water when they didn't, no fight. Labour should have declared they respected the decision, and in tens years time have a full, dump the pound, intergate fully EU refeendum. Force the middle to decide did they really want to leave… ..but labour had no game. Austerity was the fuel, brexit the oxygen, and Cornyn the heat that brunt his house down.

      • Pierre 12.2.2

        I found this letter from Laura Pidcock a painfully honest, and melancholic, account of why some voters didn't vote for Labour. And she avoids the post-election blame game which people have been playing in the media.

        We'll have that Ministry of Employment Rights one day 🙁

    • Sacha 12.3

      Labour lost because of the perception that they didn't support enacting leave

      Wasn't it that they refused to commit to any stance on the matter?

      • SPC 12.3.1

        Most of the caucus did not like the 2016 result, and would have preferred the half exit – continuation in the customs union and single market after leaving the EU.

        They basically said they (in government) would negotiate such a deal with the EU and then put it to the people for their consent. Corbyn said he would be neutral in that referendum rather than promote the deal to the people.

        It was never going to impress those Labour voters who voted UKIP in 2015 and or Brexit in 2016 (returned to Labour in 2017) . And their vote this time demonstrated that.

        Corbyn's mistake was allowing this election to take place, because holding in any election before Brexit was implemented was always going to cost Labour seats.

  12. RedLogix 13

    Typing on phone so I'll confine myself to offering my sincere appreciation for your OP weka.

    A few other contributors here would do well to read it again and contemplate.

    • gsays 13.1

      Hear, hear.

      A good read that gives some flavour to the mental chewing gum.

      Mmmm.. ugly metaphor but there you go.

  13. Ad 14

    Nicely structured post Weka.

  14. adam 15

    Nothing says support for the establishment, than support for the establishment.

    What a load of crap all in one post – what amount of people just did not vote?

    How many of the so called liberal left led the charge to attack and undermine the labour party?

    Ever see a publication called the guardian?

    How many so called lefty liberals feel for anything the pop media feed them?

    Russia did it!

    So many conspiracy theories, and so many of the self identifying left who then went on to repeat said conspiracy theories.

    So many smears, and so many of self identifying left who then went on to repeat said smears.

    But, no account of the actual numbers of people who voted left (a majority by the way)

    Just more of the same crap we got from the democrats in the USA – blame the voters, not a broken system and never, never, never – blame the liberal sycophants who hold that broken system up.

    • weka 15.1

      I didn't blame the voters. In fact I went to a lot of trouble to not apportion blame to specific classes of people because it's clear to me that a left intent on eating itself will be the death of us.

      It's so interesting to see which lefties fail to grasp the intent of the post and then go on to attack other lefties, but utterly fail to explain or demonstrate how attacking other lefties will resolve the problem they perceive to be at fault. This seems to be fairly consistent across the spectrum of the left (lefties, liberals, centrists). Which is why I wrote the post.

      We all know the system is broken adam. Equally obvious are the voting numbers on the left and the problems with FPP. Likewise all the analysis of MSM and whatever.

      What I'm suggesting is that instead of various lw factions trying to claim the moral and intellectual high ground on what to do about that and thus gifting power to the right because we have no foundation for collective action, we might want to take the time to learn how to relate with each other again and then figure out how to work together. Left wing outrage, no matter how righteous, isn't giving us the results we want.

      • Siobhan 15.1.2

        I'd be interested to know what people think a compromising, co operative, pragmatic 'Left' (Labour) has achieved since the 80's? be it in the UK or NZ.

        • weka 15.1.2.1

          Hard to know what you are asking there Siobhan. Are you asking about the Labour Party or the left?

        • Chris 15.1.2.2

          In New Zealand Labour's simply held the baton until the next National government's been ready to govern again.

        • KJT 15.1.2.3

          1984 to 1990 Labour turned on us.

          Introduced the totally ideological right wing, Neo-liberal unfortunate experiment.

          Funny, when embracing the rabid right wing veiws they did then, there was no concern about re-electability.

          Rather a push to get it done, before voters realized they had been royally, shafted.

          It was such a betrayal that many voted National to get rid of them after only two terms.

          Of course, National doubled down with Richardsons attack on the poor and unemployed, begun by Labour.

      • SPC 15.1.3

        Weka – the neo-liberals in the Labour cuacus refused to back left wing leadership of their party foisted on them by their party members. There is no coming back from this.

        This caucus will seek to take back control of the party and impose a centrist policy to be the alternative neo-liberal regime to the Tories in 2022.

        The left have only one choice, form a New Labour Alliance Party, take back the North and Midlands and force Blairites to merge with the LD to survive. N.O.O.

        • The Al1en 15.1.3.1

          The current labour party have been under the grip of momentum and unite for two general elections, and they've tanked this last one and the last euro and council votes.

          • SPC 15.1.3.1.1

            They did OK in 2017.

            In this last one they ran with a policy not popular with the working class in the Midlands and North and with a leader opposed by most of his own caucus. Voters punish disunity.

            The left have no alternative if they do not want to be undermined or subjugated within Labour – whose own MP's are not of, by and for the working class.

            • The Al1en 15.1.3.1.1.1

              A bit arrogant to suggest only working class people come from the north and midlands, and for every punish disunity, I’ll raise you a disliked, weak leadership.
              And as for that disloyalty, it didn’t stop Cameron or May winning with a split party engaging in open warfare.

              • SPC

                Trying to guilt trip me by accusing me of being arrogant?

                That the working class of the Midlands and the North withdrew support from Labour has been the story in the UK media since the election.

                Parties get punished for disloyalty, saying the leader deserved disloyalty – and then should take the blame for the result is downright cynical.

                • The Al1en

                  So, anytime you want to know about the staunch, working class boroughs of South London, where labour have drawn support for generations, you just give me a holler.

                  The real story however, is why those cosmopolitan, diverse communities in the capital, some poorer than sh1t and rivalling any of those former northern bastions for lack of opportunity, decided to stick with labour and didn't defect to a party using immigration as a divide and conquer weapon to beat the vulnerable?

                  A hint: Deep down they’re not racist as fu*k little Englanders

                  • SPC

                    Wow, so there is a working class in England outside of the M and N ….

                    If you wanna know why there was less impact in the other areas, its because of reinforcement effect. Barking may have had some UKIP voting in 2015 and for Brexit 2016, but the wider (and more diverse) London community was for Remain – so their connection to the local debate was their class interest not Brexit solidarity. And also the strong youth vote for Labour.

                    Thanks for denigrating me again by assuming I needed the hint. Is this why the real left needs protecting from the urban liberal woke as much as anyone else. Anti-semitic, arrogant needs a hint about not to accuse working class voters of being racists.

                    • The Al1en

                      With regards to the Brexit angle, I suspect the fact London is so cosmopolitan, the tory tactic of division was negated. Also, as I've mentioned elsewhere about Corbyn's mismanagement of the issue, if he had come out as the leaver he his, instead of trying to keep a foot in each door, he may have held on to some northern seats, but the urban working classes would have deserted him too, though I'm pretty confident not to the anti immigrant party.

                      To your edit: “urban liberal woke” lol
                      Tories voted for Brexit because they’re mainly racist anti immigrant little Englanders. Why do you think those ex labour people are any different now when they’ve voted tory, Ukip or Brexit party, BNP, EDL?

                      Of course not all who switched sides are like that, some just really disliked Corbyn, ultra left policies and inability to manage a piss up in a brewery.

                • The Al1en

                  That the working class of the Midlands and the North withdrew support from Labour has been the story in the UK media since the election.

                  Sure, as has the dislike for Corbyn amongst former labour voters, but you seem to be ignoring that for some reason, preferring to blame anyone and everyone else instead.

      • adam 15.1.4

        As I don't consider liberals to be left, I find your weak analysis just that, weak.

        What moral high ground, I didn't undermine the UK labour party in any way on this site – I didn't attack the former leader like some authors on this site did. Nor have I ever pushed any of the bat shit crazy conspiracy theories which have been commonplace here.

        The reality is the anti-state left and the statist left can't work together – I understand that well. That does not mean I won't point out that you statists are being utterly stupid and/or dishonest.

        The thing I find you lot miss is when a group within the statist left keep stabbing you in the back you keep letting them. It's truly odd.

        Hard to talk unity when one side is bat shit crazy woke, holds a knife and is willing to use it. When the other side is bleeding all over the floor, going just one more compromise – It's a joke.

        Like I said in another post – the reality is we are moving towards eco-fascism. And the liberals are the ones who will make sure that happens. They can't stand working class people having opinions or actually thinking for themselves.

        • weka 15.1.4.1

          so what's the plan adam? If your position is that the two groups you perceive as critical can't work together, what is the basis of political progress?

          Btw, I'm not talking about unity. My sense is that you've largely missed what I am saying.

          • Ad 15.1.4.1.1

            I'm just impressed that Adam loathes us in currently close to equal measure.

          • adam 15.1.4.1.2

            There is no plan – eco fascism is going to win. Liberals are going to make sure of it.

            You really don't get the criticism do you . My sense is that you completely missed what I was saying.

      • Bill 15.1.5

        There is absolutely no way to execute a left wing economic policy if you're operating within a liberal economic framework. UK Labour (before Corbyn) accepted and did not challenge the dominant liberal framework. Like NZ Labour today, UK Labour, in adopting liberal economic ideology had no option but to ditch class in favour of advancing inherently divisive "identity" politics. (Liberalism does not and can not acknowledge class – it's revolves around notions of the individual and has nothing to say about collective experience)

        Moving on.

        The political "normal" of the past 40 years has shifted so far beyond the edges of social democracy and into the liberal sphere, that the term "centrist" makes no sense in relation to speaking of "left".

        And as for "liberal", well obviously, liberal is that step out beyond social democracy into an ideology that denies even society as a really existing thing (there are only individuals and families….and markets).

        Meanwhile, all left political thought of whatever hue or stripe embodies an understanding of class.

        I'll away and leave any centrists or liberals to their thinking caps….

    • SHG 15.2

      blame the voters, not a broken system

      Exactly, working class voters need to be excluded from voting, they’re idiots

      https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1205859214360481792

  15. Billy 16

    A lot of prominent left wing voices, largely belonging to people whose lifestyles are far from working class, spend a great deal of time mocking, deriding and arguing for the sidelining of men – who, many of the isolated, ignored and put upon are told – form a self-interested lobby group that includes them, within society as a whole.

    So run the pronouncements of the liberal red carpet set who have become so close to the Labour Party and the Prime Minister that one might wonder whether they form a new organ of the state, having the power, as they do, to socially embarrass and needle anyone who dares to challenge power or question the liberal narrative. Ah, but then, they are "activists".

    Such power and influence is typically used to single out an aberrant citizen or character or minor renown who is held up as a symptom of a cultural problem – say, casual racism – that must be gotten rid of. That criticism may include criticism of institutions, but the criticisms are almost always made, often through newspaper columns, by celebrities who have it all and are in very close proximity to power, and often by personal friends of the PM.

    This is what many ordinary men, and women see, I would fathom, when they look at “Labour”. The red carpet friends of the PM lecturing people like them who have screwed up in often rather minor ways, with little sympathy and understanding, while posing as activists.

    It’s one thing to be told off my Helen Kelly, it’s another to be sniffed at by Lizzie Marvelly.

    When was the last time a union boss got a public airing, and in defense of ordinary workers?

    • Billy 16.1

      My point is that the public facing "Labour activists" are beautiful, wealthy celebrities who have their guns pointed at ordinary saps not at the rich and powerful, and rarely at institutions. Not only that but they are mocked all the while. Of course they are going to tell you to shove it in exercising the relatively little power they have at the voting booth. Labour’s got the image problem in some quarters and you won’t solve it by slathering on yet more make up and pracing about in high heels at hoity-toity functions talking about kindness when mocking working class men is bread and butter.

      • Billy 16.1.1

        Good was always synonymous with noble, noble the noblesse.

        Sorry for my rough, embarrassing contribution. I will get with the program and humbly recognize the moral superiority of my betters, the New Noblesse.

        • Dennis Frank 16.1.1.1

          No, don't. They ain't your betters & they don't actually have any moral superiority. Don't allow their pretence to fool you!

          The problem of factionalism on the left is due to lack of motivation to forge common ground. All they really share is dislike of the political right. Not enough to go on – but they've been failing to learn the lesson since the 1970s.

          • Obtrectator 16.1.1.1.1

            Make that the 1930s. The factions on the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War took eventual victory over the Nationalists for granted, and fought each other far more ferociously than they ever did Franco’s mob.

  16. Olwyn 17

    Successful alliances require some level of shared interest or at least shared concern. For example. the alliance between social liberals and the economic left in the '70's rested on the establishment being understood as both socially and economically conservative. So both groups were able to unite in pushing against the same opposition, sometimes with different ends in mind.

    The neoliberal establishment, by comparison, tacitly accepts social liberalism but is very hostile toward working class demands. The "flexible workforce" is a euphemism for "the powerless workforce." So, one lot is allowed at the table and the other is not, which makes it hard to maintain a good faith, trustworthy alliance. That is why Corbyn (like Cunliffe here, years earlier) ended up getting hobbled by his own party, and lost the trust of working class voters because of it. Of course Brexit played a big part, but also, someone who is hobbled cannot be relied on to follow through on their policies, or even retain their leadership once the dust has settled. Labour politicians were allegedly seen in London celebrating their election loss, since it meant they were at last free of Corbyn.

    As long as liberals fear that real pressure to represent the working class will cost them their place at the table, and the working class are convinced they need real change for things to improve, it is hard to see where shared interests can be established. The electorate itself is similarly divided between those who do fear that change will put what they have at risk, and those whose only hope is change.

    I do not buy into the story that the electorate just didn't take to this or that person; it normally just means that the party and their friends in the media are averse to promoting them.

    • Dennis Frank 17.1

      Yes, your penultimate paragraph gets to the crux of the issue. Used to be that a manifesto provided the rationale for change, so everyone could get their heads around the basis for working together. Attention spans are too short for that to work now – nobody would read it.

      Labour is a party consisting of a negligible proportion of labourers, so the traditional basis for identification is non-existent. Hasn't been there most of my life, and I'm 70. So the only way Labour can simultaneously represent affluent middle-class & poor workers is niche-marketing to each separately, via policies tailored to serve both. That ad-hoc strategy only gets Labour into govt when voter disgust with the alternative escalates above a critical threshold.

    • Anne 17.2

      I do not buy into the story that the electorate just didn't take to this or that person; it normally just means that the party and their friends in the media are averse to promoting them.

      Spot on. They did it to Corbyn and went one step further… they politically assassinated him. And yes, they did it to Cunliffe too and I haven't forgotten who 'they' were.

      Nice to see you Olwyn. Your comments are always worth reading twice. 🙂

    • Stuart Munro. 17.3

      Well put.

  17. SPC 18

    How, why did those people vote Tory …

    People first voted for UKIP to realise a referendum, then for Brexit. Then they watch Labour obstruct May's Brexit and support continued links to the customs union and single market as their preferred negotiation position.

    Labour offered in government to negotiate such a deal and then propose it to the people in a referendum. Labour voters who wanted Brexit now simply short circuited that by preventing Labour winning the election.

    One thing though – Labour still got more votes than in 2010 (just beat LD for second) and 2015 (UKIP 12%) .

    • The Al1en 18.1

      Labour in 2010 were 6% ahead of the lib dems and 7% behind the cons, and they had 55 more mps than they have now.

      In 2015 they were on 30.4%, 6.4% behind the tories, and 18% clear of third place, and Ed ended up with 29 seats more than Corbyn.

  18. SPC 19

    I wonder how many of those who said leadership were influenced by Labour MP's who basically said he was not the choice of our caucus and we do not want him as leader so do not vote for the party so we can get rid of him and all his lefties with him.

    Tom Watson (leader of the caucus resistance) is now trying to claim it was the left wing manifesto that was the problem …

  19. Exkiwiforces 20

    This may hurt your feelings for those on the Woke Left.

    To all you latte soy drinking tofu eating over educated middle class Muppets etc etc. This what happens when you Insult, ignored the working-class and its values with your airiy fairy woke left B/S.

    Labour used to stand for the train driver, the storeman/ storeperson, the Hospital worker, the shop assistants, manual worker and, those of the lower ranks/ deck of the 1st responders and the of Military etc etc, and Labour now stands for the middle class issues that excite the inner city woke left.

    We the working-class gave the woke left of the party a punishment for its arrogance on Brexit. We the working-class voted for Brexit and we voted to leave, but we were treated with such disdain from the party that our forebearers established many moons ago which were based on good old fashion Methodist, Presbyterian and Quaker values.

    “You want to leave?

    No, you must be stupid.

    And so, we’re are going to ignore you.

    Or else, we’re going to ask you to again, until you give us the result we want.

    The vote we think is best for you actually”.

    Well, we have news for you woke left clowns and we think its bloody rude, to ask for public what they want and then tell them they are stupid for making their choice.

    These days Labour stands for issues that truly seem to excite the woke left these days are fringe issues. Unlike the issues that matter to us working-class, which are jobs with good conditions, with reasonable hours and holiday pay etc. But todays Labour Party stands for trivial and divisive things.

    And remember we the working-class fought bloody hard for the right to vote. We aren’t about to let it be trashed by over-educated tossers in the newly PC Woke Left Labour Party. This revolt was coming weather its was National/ Torrie or the Woke Left PC Labour/ Green, we are voting to protect our democracy from the assaults of an out of touch elite.

    I was born with red socks and read underwear.

    Look up my great great Grandfather Frank Henry Sherman or my,

    2x or 3x Great Uncle Aneurin Bevan

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurin_Bevan

    It’s shame my Great Grand Father got his name trashed by the likes of McLagan and his fellow travellers, when he stood up to McLagan on a number of issues before he resigned from the Miners Union in Blackball, before his final show down with McLagan and co in Blackball. My Great Grandfather was probably would’ve been one of the greatness Trade Unionists that NZ would’ve had, hadn’t his name been trashed by the likes of McLagan and his fellow travellers.

    I vote Labour and my list vote goes to NZF to keep you woke left Muppets in check.

    • SPC 20.1

      Just one thing, it was the of by and for the middle class "urban liberal" centrists in Labour, not the left, behind Labour's policy of new referendum on Brexit. And they intend to use this result to get rid of the left and retake control of the leadership of the party.

      I find it interesting that the term left and urban liberal woke get conflated, as they are not synonymous. That's the propaganda of the media of the Christian conservative capitalist Republican and Christian capitalist Tory (the God, mammon and imperial fortresses Atlantic brotherhood) to label political opponents as the urban liberal/liberal left/UnAmerican fellow traveller/woke liberal left/woke left.

      I sure your disdain for urban liberals who manage the Blairite/Clark/Ardern centrist regime, while claiming to represent the underclass (they fight just as hard as the right to keep the left out of power – as the UK now demonstrates). But I vote Greens and otherwise would advocate for a revival of the New Labour/Alliance (many of the gains of 1999-2008 were because of them).

      • Bill 20.1.1

        Left ain't 'woke'. Ever. 'Woke' is a subjugation of class under a thousand and one warring identities (and tofu).

        • Stuart Munro. 20.1.1.1

          You're right of course – but tofu is different in different contexts.

          In Korea, tofu is proletarian and authentic, the product of the hardworking rural poor. Freshly prepared it really is something nice to eat – rather than being an unpalatable metaphor for liberal guilt

    • RedLogix 20.2

      I've had many an ugly exchange with the so called 'woke' left over the years. Long before I even heard the word. But I always respected their idealism; wounded as it often is.

      My firm view is that we are all broken in some way; now we need each other more than ever. Yes we will always contend with each other; that is necessary. But as a species we are now entering our time of adulthood and become responsible as stewards of all life.

      • Anne 20.2.1

        I still haven't properly figured out who the "woke" left are supposed to be. Are they a reincarnation of the Blairites and their passengers or does it go deeper than that?

        Isn't it better to judge someone on their honesty and decency no matter whereabouts on the scale they may fall – within reason?

        Whatever it is a horrible expression and I refuse to use it.

        • SPC 20.2.1.1

          It's a term used by urban liberals. Out and proud as woke. PC is probably the best synonym. Now used by their critics who do not like the PC – men attacked by feminists, feminists attacked by gender activists.

          There is a long history to it, the human rights activists and civil libertarians who campaigns for equal rights for minorities against privilege – each expansion of the cause mobilised conservative resistance – negative reaction to the activists. Then critics expand their meaning of the term to all those to their liberal left they do not like.

        • Nic the NZer 20.2.1.2

          The trouble is that this refers to multiple groups. I don't think woke needs to be turned into an ugly word as there are people who have a legitimate interest or self interest in such issues.

          The problem group (as far as I see) only care about being woke when it suites their agenda and (I think) have no real interest in following through.

        • gsays 20.2.1.3

          Hi Anne, Kim Hill interviewed this chap on RNZ on Saturday.

          He is polarizing but a good communicator.

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018726945/douglas-murray-the-groupthink-tyranny-of-woke

          He may explain a few of the questions you have.

          • pat 20.2.1.3.1

            Well that was interesting…..expect his twitter feed is busy

            • gsays 20.2.1.3.1.1

              ..interesting…

              Isn't that what one says when fearful of offending?

              A lot of what he said resonated with me, some of it I would distance myself from (especially in mixed company).

              Nowadays someone can grab a quote from Douglas Murray that is controversial or challenging and expect that to discredit everything about him.

              In the context of the U.K. election, this occurred with Corbyn: a la anti-semitism.

              Part of the direction we are headed as a society, unfortunately,

              A Century of the Self, while ostensibly about the rise of marketing and consumerism, helps to explain this.

              • pat

                "Isn't that what one says when fearful of offending?"

                now that highlights the the issue….when I say 'interesting' I mean interesting…you know, as in arousing curiosity and a desire to know more.

                Sometimes an eggplant is just an eggplant

        • Psycho Milt 20.2.1.4

          I still haven't properly figured out who the "woke" left are supposed to be.

          Oh, no need to over-think it – "woke" left is just a euphemism for "those people on the left I don't like." There's no complicated exegesis waiting to be revealed.

          • SHG 20.2.1.4.1

            Woke is the label that applies to you if you think that having a 3rd “X” sex checkbox on passports is an issue that people need to be lectured about in the leadup to a national election.

            • Psycho Milt 20.2.1.4.1.1

              Oh, for sure there's often good reason to dislike the people involved – don't get me started on the people who think that sexual reproduction involves a "spectrum" of sexes.

          • Sanctuary 20.2.1.4.2

            There is a bit more to it than that. Olwyn made a fabulous post here yesterday (https://thestandard.org.nz/listening-to-left-wing-dissent/#comment-1673728) pointing out the alliance between social liberals and the working class that was possible when the ruling elites were both socially and economically conservative has collapsed under neoliberalism, which has absorbed the social liberals in the economic ruling class.

            "Woke" left is therefore often a term used for self-absorbed social media autocrats who insist on complete adherence to their socially liberal identity politics proscription whilst not representing any constituency beyond their bathroom mirror. They distract by demanding policy and focus be exclusively on whatever social issue obsesses them rather than on economic or class issues.

            • Anne 20.2.1.4.2.1

              "Woke" left is………… a term used for self-absorbed social media autocrats who insist on complete adherence to their socially liberal identity politics proscription whilst not representing any constituency beyond their bathroom mirror.

              Oh god, I've met those types. 😯 They have been around, in one disguise or another, for decades.

        • Dennis Frank 20.2.1.5

          Google: Woke as a political term refers to an awareness of issues concerning social and racial justice. It is derived from the African-American Vernacular English expression "stay woke", whose grammatical aspect refers to a continuing awareness of these issues.

          They could go further & point out that the next stage after continuing awareness is obsession. Those that reach it exhibit a syndrome I call `collective narcissism'. As in `my group is the most important'.

          Martyn Bradbury takes this view: "For me as a class leftist, the delineation of power in society is not woke intersectionaism [sic], or skin colour, or gender, or sexual identity, it is the 1% wealthiest with their 9% enablers vs the 90% of the rest of us. Identity Politics, while an important personal journey on how the individual comes to politics, can’t be a recruitment tool to get to 51% democratic majority because if your starting point as a woke activist is that every male is a rapist, every white person a racist, anyone arguing for free speech a Nazi and anyone questioning 1% Trans mantra a homophobe, you aren’t about Broad Church politics, you are about a Pure Temple politics where exclusion is the new inclusion."

          So far, so accurate. "The Right looks for recruits to join them, the Left look for traitors to de-platform, call out and cancel. Woke Left has all the nuance of the Cultural Revolution." Yep. [https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/12/14/the-modern-rule-of-politics-post-corbyn-woke-social-media-is-death-and-white-males-quite-like-their-privilege-thanks/]

          "The real danger of identity politics over class politics, as we have seen in the UK election and with Trump, is that when white poor men start seeing themselves not as a class but as an identity, the Right win. In the NZ context that means 500 retweets by Wellington Twitteratti = alienation not winning. If it’s popular on The Spinoff, it’s poison at the ballot box and if Action Station have a petition on it, avoid it like the fucking plague."

          As someone who helped originate Action Station after the gfc, who has belonged as a supporter ever since, I'm not inclined to take offense. Their messaging is crass much of the time, precious even when not crass, and they have a bad case of collective narcissism. But I still sign many of the petitions they send out, and toss them a few dollars now & then. Woke? Definitely. Eyes often a-rolling in result. But oldies ought to support young idealist do-gooders, eh?

          • Anne 20.2.1.5.1

            Thanks one and all. 🙂

            I suspect there's an element of truth in what PM says. 😉

            And being old and cynical too, I have sympathy with Dennis Frank's view. 😈

            Collective narcissism sounds about right in some cases at least.

          • Billy 20.2.1.5.2

            How did you help originate ActionStation? I thought it came out of the Greens?

            • Sacha 20.2.1.5.2.1

              Dennis also came out of the Greens. 🙂

              • Billy

                They are impressively organized but need to decouple themselves from some of their very sinister funders and infrastructure providers. DNC included… Would have no issue with a fully local iteration – well, I’d rather they be fully local and not an iteration of anything.

                Dennis Frank, to what extent were the originators of ActionStation knowledgeable about its funding arrangements and did you also take many trips to Washington like the rest of them?

                • Dennis Frank

                  I've no idea about funding or any trips to Washington since Bill & I had disengaged from the establishment process by then. I'm intrigued!

                  Is involvement with DNC just a rumour or do you have inside word on that? Hard to imagine the Dems being that organised. I'm reminded of the famous Will Rogers quote: "I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

                  • Sacha

                    The Dem campaign Howard Dean led developed some campaign volunteer and donation organising software that was later shared freely with any organisations that wanted it.

                    Not sure how that fits with whatever ActionStation are using (or with any of the dark influences hinted at by one commenter here) but it would make no sense to reinvent the wheel locally.

                    The action coordinated on top of that platform is where the value lies. ActionStation has done great work giving younger citizens confidence that there are ways to make a difference beyond traditional political parties.

                  • Billy

                    Dennis, we should have fair trade coffee. You’re going to want to be sitting down.

                    • Dennis Frank

                      smiley I'm provincial nowadays – retired to New Plymouth, where I was born & raised. Incidentally, Sacha makes a good point re the actions created by the platform & how they enable & empower young activists. That is indeed the upside, and has been a frequent feel-good factor for me in recent times – so all the developmental work years ago was worth the effort!

            • Dennis Frank 20.2.1.5.2.2

              It started with a conversation I had with Bill Watson the year he was NZ coordinator of Sea Shepherd. Bill said Aotearoa ought to have a petition site like Get Up in Australia. So we got together with a few others in a Ponsonby pub (the one on College Hill) and brainstormed it over a few beers.

              Bill wrote to the folk who operated Get Up but got no response. I'd suggested to the group we start an alternative political movement instead. Petitioners are mere supplicants & I'd rather operate from a position of strength. That was due to Bill having a Masters degree in psychology but me being the one who actually does deep psychology.

              Almost two years later Bill got an email response from Get Up, to our considerable surprise, apologising for the delay but they'd been so busy. Agreeing to our using their format, so we had our fourth or fifth group meeting and decided to call our version Stand Up (a la Bob Marley). A Sea Shepherd volunteer named Matt (part of our group) volunteered to write the code for the website. About a year later he was part-way through developing that in his spare time and we heard of a Wellington group with a similar idea. Bill established liaison with the lawyer Joe Cederwall, who advised they could finish the software development faster than Matt, so our group agreed to pass the project along to their group.

              I've still got the Stand Up folder somewhere – it's primarily the Get Up design they sent us, about 40 pages. Joe told us there were likely to be copyright problems with the name since a group here was already using it, so the young woman who had run an election campaign successfully for the Greens and subsequently got the job of running the petition site organised a poll for a new name and Action Station got chosen.

              Incidentally, none of this history appears on the capsule story on their website. That would be because young folk mostly don't do history. Reinventing the wheel is much more fun…

              • Billy

                Fascinating stuff, genuinely. What role did Ben Brandzel play or did he come later? Via Cederwall? Who provided the initial funding?

                You should write a post about it. If anything, it will go towards the fact that the left is much more transparent around political fundraising / donations

                • Dennis Frank

                  Don't know that name, so he may have been part of the Wellington group. I suppose those people must have got funding somewhere to get the website up & running, but our group was entirely voluntary. Matt did quite a lot of software writing for free, but that's just traditional activism – been the driver of progress here since the late 1960s.

                  I've written all I can contribute, Billy. Transparency is relative, and the Greens usually do it okay. I do have experience to the contrary – learnt that some activists put partisanship ahead of ethics. So I trust leftist Greens as far as I can kick them. I reported the rule-breaking to the leadership back in '94, took a year to get an apology out of them, and by then had left in disgust. I'd given them the evidence and there was no excuse. I was Convenor of the Standing Orders Committee. It's not in my nature to let a stalinist get away with it.

                  • Billy

                    Well you must extremely disturbed to see one of your babies line up with NED and the CIA. But well-funded now, of course.

          • Billy 20.2.1.5.3

            "when white poor men start seeing themselves not as a class but as an identity, the Right win."

            No-brainer, really. Deeply stupid move.

            It’s extraordinary that the group of people who seem to be attempting to elevate offensive speech to the level of capital crime can’t see the effect of their speech on the traditional Labour base and if they do see it adjust their behaviour accordingly. Identity politics is an apocalyptic ideology for those that hold it.

        • Billy 20.2.1.6

          Evidently they're a bit like the abstract expressionists.

    • millsy 20.3

      Nye Bevan would be regarded as a Corbynista now. So would Atlee, and maybe even Harold Wilson and Callaghan. Even Gaitskell and Crosland would be too left for the Blairites.

      People dont seem to realise how right wing the Blairites are, when you match up their political views and policy enactments with previous Labour governments and even some Tory ones. Alan Johnson, David Blunkett, Jack Straw, Harriet Hartman, Ruth Kelly, Jaqcui Smith, Peter Mandelson could have all slotted into any post WW2 Tory cabinet.

      Im not trying to make any points here, I am just stating a fact.

      • Exkiwiforces 20.3.1

        You are not wrong there my old mate Millsy, I'm reading a book called Blair and his Generals. What an utter muppet Blair and his fellow travellers are IRT to the Iraq and the Gan were. As one General said about the "Blairites on Iraq and Gan War, they were trying to go to a rich mans war with rich mans ideal's, but fighting a rich mans war and ideals on a poor mans wages. "

        It really sums up the C**T and his fellow travellers IRT to the conduct of the both Wars and the aftermath on both regions and on home front aka us vets.

        Has the morals of sewage rat banker.

        Today's Labour Party MP's (UK, Oz and NZ) wouldn't know how dig hole to save themselves, let a lone be put in charge of putting up a tent and boiling the billy/ chuffer for a cup of tea.

        PS.
        “Atlee, and maybe even Harold Wilson and Callaghan. Even Gaitskell and Crosland”

        Some good honest men back in their day, but got knock over with events that left them in a prickle.

    • Billy 20.4

      Excellent comment.

      Uncouth working class white men are treated as the enemy by social liberals and they hate you for it. Many of them won't vote for Labour as a result of that cultural and political ear bashing.

      Telling everyone to identify with their race and gender not their class was the dumbest idea the left ever had. Apart from demonizing the base it allows a lot of people off scott free for having a drop of exotic blood or for being a bit kinky and liking a crowded bed, leaving the rest of us in the absurd position of being moralized to by a bunch of bisexual horndog celebrity millionaires who think activism is going to events and telling each other how their lived personal experiences have made the world a better place.

  20. SPC 21

    It's actually a case of the left wing of the UK Labour Party having to hear and obey their real class and political enemies – who want to take back control of the Labour Party.

    1. The caucus rejects the party members foisting on them left wing leadership

    2. They openly reject a left winger as their leader and invite electoral punishment for their disunity, so they can take back control of the party from the left wing membership.

    The Blairites (basically the educated middle class outside of the elite establishment – Eton-Balliol Oxford etc) have only the Labour Party as their route to power, which is why they took over the Labour Party post Thatcher to bed in the neo-liberal regime (the SD merger with the LD having failed).

    Here we had at least the New Labour/Alliance Party resistance and or the Green Party, this was the UK left's last stand. Soon, if they are to survive at all as a political force (Tom Watson is now trying to blame the left wing manifesto for the loss) they may well have to form their own party (some irony given they have strong support from the party members and the young – the latter is cause for optimism once they strike out on their own and offer a united left wing caucus to voters).

    • Sanctuary 21.1

      The problem for the Labour neoliberal right and it's cheerleaders in the Guardian is that they were ferociously pro-Remain, a stance that is now understood to have been a big contributor to the catastrophic losses in northern England. In other words, they were demonstrably wrong on the premise of their main platform and they have long stood proudly convicted of gross disloyalty to Corbyn to boot.

      But like I have said, the fact the Rebecca Long-Bailey and Angela Rayner are the most like next leadership duo for Labour indicates the left has now won the battle against the PLP Blairites, who have now mostly either lost their seats, defected and lost their seats, or resigned and left politics before they lost their seats.

  21. David Mac 22

    The left are feeling rudderless because the power comes from the collective us. The rise of platforms for me to express what is important to me has diluted the power of the collective and provided attractive avenues for me to focus on me rather than us. These me times do nothing to fertilise an all encompassing give a damn about people and Earth.

    We see it here. Those dumping on Pharmac the hardest are in need of specific drugs – me thinking. Those that call the loudest for a rise in benefits are dependent on one.

    I'm not judging them, they're swept up in the unavoidable times, me too. The left is becoming a vehicle for me to promote me and my personal concerns, to be strong it needs to be about us.

    • Billy 23.1

      We need total transparency around National Party and NZ First donations but we also need total transparency around the assholes funding ID politics and perverting the left like this villain-haired chap above.

  22. Bill 24

    Here's tuppensworth.

    Putting aside the endless vilification from pop media….

    Said at the time – Corbyn should have sought a working relationship with the SNP when he was first elected leader. (Labour had one MP in Scotland at the time, but Corbyn kept right on with the "Tartan Tory" attack lines against all available evidence and common sense)

    Jon Lansman should never have been allowed to head up Momentum and fold the movement into the Labour Party. (Movements are not movements if they are defined by political parties)

    Corbyn should have front footed on the b/s claims of anti-Semitisism

    Labour should have maintained their 2017 Brexit position

    On the bright side – Johnson's possibly strapped himself and the Tory Party into a suicide vest.

    • Cantabrian 24.1

      Bill, I have to agree with you on most points. However, Corbyn had too much baggage to take into the election as leader. his previous stances over the IRA, Palestine and the like made him unelectable by the British centrists (particularly the working class brexiteers in the northeast). Admit it Corbynites he was toxic to the electorate and there is no escaping the fact. Failure to engage with the SNP displays the arrogance of the Labour leadership as well.

      Add to that the disgraceful treatment of TomWatson and you have the reasons for a calamitous defeat.

  23. Craig H 25

    Looking at the vote talleys, it looks like some Labour brexiteers voted Tory and Brexit Party, and some of the Labour and Tory remainers voted Liberal Democrats.

  24. Sanctuary 26

    It is very depressing reading the reaction of the ultras in Labour.

    They are playing perfectly the role of being the ancien regime of political Bourbons in the Labour party – "Nobody has been corrected; no one has known to forget, nor yet to learn anything."

    Funnily enough though, the attacks from the extreme centrists is now almost all coming from outside Labour, ex-Blairites, the neoliberal press and bitter ex-members.

    But the fact that the immediate front runner to replace Corbyn is Rebecca Long-Bailey indicates that the left has now won the argument.

  25. Adrian Thornton 27

    Weka I am glad you put the.. btw, those that want to run a 'I know the single cause' line…etc, that polls says it all.

    The main reasons people did not vote Labour
    — The leadership (43%)

    Let's stop all this bullshit navel gazing and look at the facts, Corbyn/Labour were absolutely fucked over by a UK media war on a progressive Left project that scared the shit out of them, it was incessant and unrelenting for three years, day in day out, week after week, month after month, wholly negative corrosive and ultimately…it worked, and as I have said before, most damaging from the so called 'left media', which has exposed itself as our #1 enemy in this war.

    Seriously, can anyone here tell me any politician that could have won an election after three years of negative press from all sides on this industrial scale?

    The main reasons people did not vote Labour, Brexit 17%, so sure Labour/Corbyn should have been clearer earlier on this, but that being said, their plan in the end was actually a very good one…but as those polls show, that wasn't the primary reason.

    The take away here for anyone on the progressive, transformative Left is that we are in a war of ideologies with the centre (left) and the Right, ie; the establishment, and they have shown us quite clearly in the UK that they will work together to stop the real Left from gaining any foot hold…at any cost.

    Jeremy Corbyn is the most smeared politician in history

    In the UK, one politician has been subject to the longest continuous smear campaign in UK history, and we are all influenced by it. Over 75 per cent of Jeremy Corbyn media coverage factually misrepresents him

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/jeremy-corbyn-is-the-most-smeared-politician-in-history/18/07/

    I didn't get into this because I thought about winning, I got into this because I know we are on the right side, the only side, so my advice (which is probably not wanted) is to stop belly aching and second guessing yourselves, and get out there and fight harder.

    Turn Labour left!

    • The Al1en 27.1

      Corbyn/Labour were absolutely fucked over by a UK media war

      So you're saying people like you and me can read, listen and watch the tory media and not get brainwashed by it, but voters in the midlands and the north of England can't.

  26. Colin 28

    Your right Cantabrian, some on this site hold Corbyn as some sort of Messiah for the extreme Left, apart from his known Anti Semitism which many here blame on a conspiracy by the Media, he is also a lover of Hamas & other similar groups worldwide. I have a friend who was undercover in Ireland 1974 who witnessed Corbyn among a big group in a hall, & when the IRA detonated Bombs in Birmingham Pubs ,Cheers & Celebrations were given by all. The end result was 21 KILLED. 182. INJURED, not a bad result Comrades.

    • greywarshark 28.1

      Colin Your comment is unpleasant to read.

      But I saw a letter in the paper with a quote that adds something positive for Corbyn. But it was in The Guardian only on December 11, so a bit late for informing and shining truth on any dark thoughts about Corbyn and anti-Semitism. This from The Press Tuesday, 17 Dec 29019 page 13.

      "we, Jewish members of his constituency, have known him for 30 years. We know him well enough to know there is no foundation to the accusation that Corbtyn is anti-Semitic. In a party of 500,000 members there will be anti-Semites and they must be dealt with. But we can assure Jewish voters that they are safe voting Labour"…(Guardian letter, Dec 11).

      signed by Donna Miles-Mojab, Merivale

      • Nic the NZer 28.1.1

        I get the feeling Colin doesn't actually have any experiences involving Corbyn to share. Other than the hearsay which implies that UK state spies have been monitoring him since the 70s.

  27. pat 29

    If Daron Acemoglu is correct then 'the Left" can reorganise till the cows come to no effect….until faith in institutions is restored and mutual respect returns (the social contract) then our democracies will fail….and the road there is engagement.

    Worth a listen

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018727300/democracy-on-a-tightrope

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    TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Monday, July 22, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:US President Joe Biden announced via X this morning he would not stand for a second term.Multinational professional services firm ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #29

    A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, July 14, 2024 thru Sat, July 20, 2024. Story of the week As reflected by preponderance of coverage, our Story of the Week is Project 2025. Until now traveling ...
    2 days ago
  • I'd like to share what I did this weekend

    This weekend, a friend pointed out someone who said they’d like to read my posts, but didn’t want to pay. And my first reaction was sympathy.I’ve already told folks that if they can’t comfortably subscribe, and would like to read, I’d be happy to offer free subscriptions. I don’t want ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    2 days ago
  • For the children – Why mere sentiment can be a misleading force in our lives, and lead to unex...

    National: The Party of ‘Law and Order’ IntroductionThis weekend, the Government formally kicked off one of their flagship policy programs: a military style boot camp that New Zealand has experimented with over the past 50 years. Cartoon credit: Guy BodyIt’s very popular with the National Party’s Law and Order image, ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    2 days ago
  • A friend in uncertain times

    Day one of the solo leg of my long journey home begins with my favourite sound: footfalls in an empty street. 5.00 am and it’s already light and already too warm, almost.If I can make the train that leaves Budapest later this hour I could be in Belgrade by nightfall; ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • The Chaotic World of Male Diet Influencers

    Hi,We’ll get to the horrific world of male diet influencers (AKA Beefy Boys) shortly, but first you will be glad to know that since I sent out the Webworm explaining why the assassination attempt on Donald Trump was not a false flag operation, I’ve heard from a load of people ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    2 days ago
  • It's Starting To Look A Lot Like… Y2K

    Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • Bernard’s Saturday Soliloquy for the week to July 20

    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Pharmac Director, Climate Change Commissioner, Health NZ Directors – The latest to quit this m...

    Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    4 days ago
  • Flooding Housing Policy

    The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • A Voyage Among the Vandals: Accepted (Again!)

    As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
    4 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Friday, July 19

    An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Friday, July 19

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 19-July-2024

    Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    4 days ago
  • Weekly Climate Wrap: A market-led plan for failure

    TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Tobacco First

    Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • Trump’s Adopted Son.

    Waiting In The Wings: For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
    4 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Friday, July 19

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSA announced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to July 19

    TL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers last night features co-hosts and talking with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent talking about the National-ACT-NZ First Government’s release of its first Emissions Reduction Plan;University of Otago Foreign Relations Professor and special guest Dr Karin von ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #29 2024

    Open access notables Improving global temperature datasets to better account for non-uniform warming, Calvert, Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society: To better account for spatial non-uniform trends in warming, a new GITD [global instrumental temperature dataset] was created that used maximum likelihood estimation (MLE) to combine the land surface ...
    5 days ago
  • We're back again! Join us for the weekly Hoon on YouTube Live

    Photo by Gabriel Crismariu on UnsplashWe’re back again after our mid-winter break. We’re still with the ‘new’ day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when we have our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream for ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Gut Reactions.

    Trump Writes His Own Story: Would the “mainstream” media even try to reflect the horrified reaction of the MAGA crowd to the pop-pop-pop of the would-be assassin’s rifle, and Trump going down? Could it even grasp the sheer elation of the rally-goers seeing their champion rise up and punch the air, still alive, ...
    5 days ago
  • Dodging Bullets.

    Fight! Fight! Fight! Had the assassin’s bullet found its mark and killed Donald Trump, America’s descent into widespread and murderous violence – possibly spiralling-down into civil war – would have been immediate and quite possibly irreparable. The American Republic, upon whose survival liberty and democracy continue to depend, is certainly not ...
    5 days ago
  • 'Corruption First' Strikes Again

    There comes a point in all our lives when we must stop to say, “Enough is enough. We know what’s happening. We are not as stupid or as ignorant as you believe us to be. And making policies that kill or harm our people is not acceptable, Ministers.”Plausible deniability has ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    5 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Thursday, July 18

    TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:The inside stories of KiwiRail’s iRex debacle, Westport’s perma-delayed flood scheme and Christchurch’s post-quake sewer rebuild, which assumed no population growth, show just how deeply sceptical senior officials in Treasury, the Ministry of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • What's that Jack Black?

    Ah-rah, deeSoo-guh-goo-gee-goo-geeGoo-guh fli-goo gee-gooGuh fli-goo, ga-goo-buh-deeOoh, guh-goo-beeOoh-guh-guh-bee-guh-guh-beeFli-goo gee-gooA-fliguh woo-wa mama Lucifer!I’m about ready to move on, how about you?Not from the shooting, that’s bad and we definitely shouldn’t have that. But the rehabilitation of Donald J Trump? The deification of Saint Donald? As the Great Unifier?Gimme a bucket.https://yellowscene.com/2024/04/07/trump-as-jesus/Just to re-iterate, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • June 2024: Earth’s 13th-consecutive warmest month on record

    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Jeff Masters and Bob Henson June 2024 was Earth’s warmest June since global record-keeping began in 1850 and was the planet’s 13th consecutive warmest month on record, NOAA’s National Centers for Environmental Information, or NCEI, reported July 12. As opposed to being focused in ...
    5 days ago
  • Connecting the dots and filling the gaps in our bike network

    This is a guest post by Shaun Baker on the importance of filling the gaps in our cycling networks. It originally appeared on his blog Multimodal Adventures, and is re-posted here with kind permission. In our towns and cities in Aotearoa New Zealand, there are areas in our cycling networks ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    5 days ago
  • Webworm Down Under Photos!

    Hi,I wanted to share a few thoughts and photos from the Webworm popup and Tickled screening we held in Auckland, New Zealand last weekend.In short — it was a blast. I mean, I had a blast and I hope any of you that came also had a blast.An old friend ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    5 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Thursday, July 18

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 6:30 am on Thursday, July 18 are:News: Christchurch's sewer systems block further housing developments RNZ’s Niva ChittockAnalysis: Interislander: Treasury, MoT officials' mistrust of KiwiRail led ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Thursday, July 18

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Thursday, July 18, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Verbatim: Climate Change Minister Simon Watts held a news conference in Auckland to release the Government’s Emissions Reduction Plan, including ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The politics of managed retreat

    Climate change deniers are now challenging the Government over a key climate change adaptation policy. That begs the question of whether New Zealand First will then support Government moves to implement processes to deal with a managed retreat for properties in danger of flooding because of sea level rise and ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Some changes are coming

    Warm welcome again to those who are here. The Mountain Tui substack was officially started on the 2nd of July. I wrote about what led me here on this post. Since then, it’s been a learning to navigate the platform, get to meet those in the community, and basically be ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    6 days ago
  • About fucking time

    The US Supreme Court has been rogue for years, with openly corrupt judges making the law up as they go to suit themselves, their billionaire buyers, and the Republican Party. But now, in the wake of them granting a licence for tyranny, President Biden is actually going to try and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: False accounting and wishful thinking

    National released their draft 2026-2030 Emissions Reduction Plan today. The plan is required under the Zero Carbon Act, and must set out policies and strategies to meet the relevant emissions budget. Having cancelled all Labour's actually effective climate change policies and crashed the carbon price, National was always going to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • The Enemies Of Sunshine And Space.

    Our Houses? The Urban Density debate is a horrible combination of intergenerational avarice and envy, fuelled by the grim certainty that none of the generations coming up after them will ever have it as good as the Boomers. To say that this situation rankles among those born after 1965 is to ...
    6 days ago
  • Still the 5 Eyes Achilles Heel?

    The National Cyber Security Centre (NZSC), a unit in the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) dedicated to cyber-security, has released a Review of its response to the 2021 email hacking of NZ members of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China (IPAC, … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    6 days ago
  • Britain's Devastating Electoral Slip.

    Slip-Sliding Away: Labour may now enjoy a dominant position in Britain’s political landscape, but only by virtue of not being swallowed by it.THE BRITISH LABOUR PARTY’S “landslide victory” is nothing of the sort. As most people understand the term, a landslide election victory is one in which the incumbent government, or ...
    6 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on why right wingers think all governments (including their own) are incompetent

    Since open denial of climate change is no longer a viable political option, denial now comes in disguise. The release this week of the coalition government’s ‘draft emissions reductions plan” shows that the Luxon government is refusing to see the need to cut emissions at source. Instead, it proposes to ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Wednesday, July 17

    TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy this morning are:Chris Penk is set to roll back building standards for insulation that had only just been put in place, and which had been estimated to save 40% from power costs, after builders ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Open Letter to Pharmac

    All this talk of getting oldIt's getting me down, my loveLike a cat in a bag, waiting to drownThis time I'm coming downAnd I hope you're thinking of meAs you lay down on your sideNow the drugs don't workThey just make you worse but I know I'll see your face ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • A blanket of misinformation

    Two old sayings have been on my mind lately. The first is: “The pen is mightier than the sword”, describing the power of language and communication to help or to harm. The other, which captures the speed with which falsehoods can become ingrained and hard to undo, is: “A lie can ...
    Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Wednesday, July 17

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day to 7:00 am on Wednesday, July 17 are:Scoop: Government considers rolling back home insulation standards RNZ’s Eloise GibsonNews: Government plans tree-planting frenzy as report shows NZ no longer ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Wednesday, July 17

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Wednesday, July 17 , the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day were:Simon Watts released the Government’s draft Emissions Reduction Plan (ERP), which included proposed changes to the Emissions Trading Scheme ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • “Shhhh” – National's 3 Waters is loaded with higher costs and lays a path to ...

    This is a long, possibly technical, but very, very important read. I encourage you to take the time and spread your awareness.IntroductionIn 2022, then Labour Party Prime Minister Jacinda Adern expended significant political capital to protect New Zealand’s water assets from privatisation. She lost that battle, and Labour and the ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    7 days ago
  • Plugging a video channel: Dr Gilbz

    Dr. Ella Gilbert is a climate scientist and presenter with a PhD in Antarctic climate change, working at the British Antarctic Survey (BAS). Her background is in atmospheric sciences and she's especially interested in the physical mechanisms of climate change, clouds, and almost anything polar. She is passionate about communicating climate ...
    7 days ago
  • Some “scrutiny” again

    Back in 2022, in its Open Government Partnership National Action Plan, the government promised to strengthen scrutiny of Official Information Act exemption clauses in legislation. Since then they've run a secret "consultation" on how to do that, with their preferred outcome being that agencies will consult the Ministry of Justice ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Crashing New Zealand's health system is not the way to prosperity, Prime Minister

    Another day, and yet another piece of bad news for New Zealand’s health system. Reports have come out that General Practitioners (GP) may have to close doors, or increase patient fees to survive. The so-called ‘capitation’ funding review, which supports GP practices to survive, is under way, and primary care ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    7 days ago
  • Closer Than You Think: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.

    Redefining Our Terms: “When an angry majority is demanding change, defending the status-quo is an extremist position.”“WHAT’S THIS?”, asked Laurie, eyeing suspiciously the two glasses of red wine deposited in front of him.“A nice drop of red. I thought you’d be keen to celebrate the French Far-Right’s victory with the ...
    1 week ago
  • Come on Darleen.

    Good morning all, time for a return to things domestic. After elections in the UK and France, Luxon gatecrashing Nato, and the attempted shooting of Trump, it’s probably about time we re-focus on local politics.Unless of course you’re Christopher Luxon and you’re so exhausted from all your schmoozing in Washington ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • How the Northwest was lost and may be won

    This is a guest post by Darren Davis. It originally appeared on his excellent blog, Adventures in Transitland, which we encourage you to check out. It is shared by kind permission. The Northwest has always been Auckland’s public transport Cinderella, rarely invited to the public funding ball. How did ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Tuesday July 16

    Luxon has told a Financial Times’ correspondent he would openly call out China’s spying in future and does not fear economic retaliation from Aotearoa’s largest trading partner.File Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Tuesday, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Tuesday, July 16

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 6:00 am on Tuesday, July 16 are:PM Christopher Luxon has given a very hawkish interview to the Financial Times-$$$ correspondent in Washington, Demetri Sevastopulu, saying ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Tuesday, July 16

    Photo by Ryunosuke Kikuno on UnsplashTL;DR: The top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day to 6:00 am are:BNZ released its Performance of Services Index for June, finding that services sector is at its lowest level of activity ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The second crisis; assumption was the mother

    Late on the night of July 16, 1984, while four National Cabinet Ministers were meeting in the Beehive office of Deputy Prime Minister Jim McLay, plotting the ultimate downfall of outgoing Prime Minister Sir Robert Muldoon, another crisis was building up in another part of the capital. The United States ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 week ago
  • Can we air condition our way out of extreme heat?

    This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler Air conditioning was initially a symbol of comfort and wealth, enjoyed by the wealthy in theaters and upscale homes. Over time, as technology advanced and costs decreased, air conditioning became more accessible to the general public. With global warming, though, ...
    1 week ago
  • Review: The Zimiamvian Trilogy, by E.R. Eddison (1935-1958)

    I have reviewed some fairly obscure stuff on this blog. Nineteenth century New Zealand speculative fiction. Forgotten Tolkien adaptations. George MacDonald and William Morris. Last month I took a look at The Worm Ouroboros (1922), by E.R. Eddison, which while not strictly obscure, is also not overly inviting to many ...
    1 week ago
  • Media Link: AVFA on the Trump assassination attempt.

    In this episode of “A View from Afar” Selwyn Manning and I discuss the attempt on Donald Trump’s life and its implications for the US elections. The political darkness grows. ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago

  • Sir Don to travel to Viet Nam as special envoy

    Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced.    “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • Grant Illingworth KC appointed as transitional Commissioner to Royal Commission

    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024.  “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • NZ to advance relationships with ASEAN partners

    Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane.    “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says.   “This will be our third visit to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Backing mental health services on the West Coast

    Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • NZ support for sustainable Pacific fisheries

    New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Students’ needs at centre of new charter school adjustments

    Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Commissioner replaces Health NZ Board

    In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today.  “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Minister to speak at Australian Space Forum

    Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum.  While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation.  “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Climate Change Minister to attend climate action meeting in China

    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan.  “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Oceans and Fisheries Minister to Solomons

    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government launches Military Style Academy Pilot

    The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Nine priority bridge replacements to get underway

    The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Update on global IT outage

    Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand, Japan renew Pacific partnership

    New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says.    “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New infrastructure energises BOP forestry towns

    New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • 'Pacific Futures'

    President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests.    Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone.    Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Delivering 24 hour pothole repairs

    Kiwis and freight operators will benefit from the Coalition Government delivering on its commitment to introduce targets that will ensure a greater number of potholes on our state highways are identified and fixed within 24 hours, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Increasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is a key ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Peer Support Specialists rolled out in hospitals

    Five hospitals have been selected to trial a new mental health and addiction peer support service in their emergency departments as part of the Government’s commitment to increase access to mental health and addiction support for New Zealanders, says Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey.  “Peer Support Specialists in EDs will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Consultation opens for the Emissions Reduction Plan

    The Government’s draft Emissions Reduction Plan shows we can stay within the limits of the first two emissions budgets while growing the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “This draft Emissions Reduction Plan shows that with effective climate change policies we can both grow the economy and deliver our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Benefit stats highlight need for welfare reset

    The coalition Government is providing extra support for job seekers to ensure as many Kiwis as possible are in work or preparing for work, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “While today’s quarterly data showing a rise in the number of people on Jobseeker benefits has been long ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • School attendance continues to increase

    Provisional school attendance data for Term 2 2024 released today has shown more students are back in class compared to last year, with 53.1 per cent of students regularly attending, compared with 47 per cent in Term 2 2023, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. “The Government has prioritised student ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • $22.7m of West Coast resilience projects underway

    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news of progress being made by the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) on the first of several crucial resilience projects underway on the South Island’s West Coast.“State highways across the West Coast are critical lifelines for communities throughout the region, including for freight and tourism. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Migrant school leavers to get part-time work rights

    The coalition Government is providing migrant school leavers with greater opportunities, by increasing access to part-time work rights for those awaiting the outcome of a family residence application, Immigration Minister Erica Stanford has announced.  “Many young people who are part of a family residence application process are unable to work. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Funding to support use of NZ Sign Language

    Seven projects have received government funding totalling nearly $250,000 to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). Initiatives that received an NZSL Board Community Grants this year include camps that support the use of NZSL through physical and sensory activities, and clubs where Deaf people and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Inflation data shows progress in economic recovery

    Today’s Consumer Price Index data which has inflation at 3.3 per cent for the year to July 2024, shows we are turning our economy around and winning the fight against rampant inflation, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says.  “While today’s data will be welcome news for Kiwis, I know many New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Experts to advise Minister on Oranga Tamariki

    The Oranga Tamariki Ministerial Advisory Board has been re-established by the Minister for Children, Karen Chhour. “I look forward to working with the new board to continue to ensure Oranga Tamariki and the care and protection system, are entirely child centric,” Minister Chhour says. “The board will provide independent advice ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Expectations set for improved medicines access

    Associate Health Minister David Seymour says he has set clear expectations for Pharmac around delivering the medicines and medical technology that Kiwis need.  “For many New Zealanders, funding for pharmaceuticals is life or death, or the difference between a life of pain and suffering or living freely. New cancer medicines ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Regional Development Minister to host summits

    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones will hold a series of nationwide summits to discuss regional priorities, aspirations and opportunities, with the first kicking off in Nelson on August 12. The 15 summits will facilitate conversations about progressing regional economic growth and opportunities to drive productivity, prosperity and resilience through the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government delivers new school for Rolleston

    The Coalition Government is addressing growing demands on Canterbury’s school network, by delivering a new primary school in Rolleston, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. Within Budget 24’s $400 million investment into school property growth, construction will begin on a new primary school (years 1-8) in Selwyn, Canterbury.  Rolleston South Primary ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New speed camera signs to improve safety

    The Government is welcoming the rollout of new speed camera signs for fixed speed cameras to encourage drivers to check their speeds, improving road safety and avoiding costly speeding tickets, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Providing Kiwis with an opportunity to check their speed and slow down in high crash areas ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ, Korea strengthen relationship

    New Zealand and the Republic of Korea continue to strengthen their relationship, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “New Zealand and Korea have a long history – from New Zealand soldiers fighting in the Korean War, through to our strong cooperation today as partners supporting the international rules-based order.    ...
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    1 week ago
  • Investing for future growth in tourism and hospitality

    The Government is moving forward with recommendations from the Tourism Data Leadership Group, beginning with establishing a Tourism Data Partnership Fund says Tourism and Hospitality Minister Matt Doocey. “The Tourism Data Partnership Fund is funded through the International Visitor Conservation and Tourism Levy (IVL) and will provide up to $400,000 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • 4000 more job seekers to get case managers

    A new over-the-phone employment case management service will see thousands more job seekers under the age of 25 supported to find work, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston has announced. “MSD case managers provide valuable support to help people into work, but less than a third of those receiving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Trade Minister to attend G7 meeting in Italy

    Trade Minister Todd McClay will attend the Group of Seven (G7) Trade Ministers meeting in Reggio Calabria, Italy next week. This is the first time New Zealand has been invited to join the event, which will be attended by some of the world’s largest economies and many of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Ministers reveal consequences for unruly Kāinga Ora tenants

    Ministers are pleased to see Kāinga Ora taking a stronger approach to managing unruly, threatening or abusive tenants, Housing Minister Chris Bishop and Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka say.    “For far too long, a small number of Kāinga Ora tenants have ridden roughshod over their neighbours because, under Kāinga ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister wraps up US visit in California

    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has finished a successful four-day visit to the United States with meetings in California on his final day focusing on innovation and investment.  “It has been fantastic to be in San Francisco today seeing first-hand the deepening links between New Zealand and California. “New Zealand company, EV Maritime, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister leads Indo-Pacific Four at NATO

    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today chaired a meeting of the Indo-Pacific Four (IP4) countries – Australia, Japan, the Republic of Korea and New Zealand. The IP4 met in the context of NATO’s Summit in Washington DC hosted by President Biden. “Prosperity is only possible with security,” Mr Luxon says. “We need ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • District Court judges appointed

    Attorney-General Hon Judith Collins today announced the appointment of three new District Court Judges.   The appointees, who will take up their roles in July and August at the Manukau, Rotorua and Invercargill courts, are:   Matthew Nathan Judge Nathan was admitted to bar in New Zealand in 2021, having previously been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Urgent review into Wairoa flood response begins

    Environment Minister, Penny Simmonds today announced the terms of reference for a rapid review into the Wairoa flood response. “The Wairoa community has raised significant concerns about the management of the Wairoa River bar and the impact this had on flooding of properties in the district,” says Ms Simmonds. “The Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • NZDF’s Red Sea deployment extended

    New Zealand has extended its contribution to the US-led coalition working to uphold maritime security in the Red Sea, Defence Minister Judith Collins and Foreign Minister Winston Peters announced today. “The decision to extend this deployment is reflective of the continued need to partner and act in line with New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

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