Mana Party Internet Party partnership

113 comments on “Mana Party Internet Party partnership ”

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1. Kenny Smith 1

   27 May 2014 at 11:31 am

   So do they have separate party lists?

   When is that announced?
   • Matthew Hooton 1.1

     27 May 2014 at 12:39 pm

     They will have one party list – the MoU refers to a “new party”. But they will run as separate parties in the electorates. Not sure how a win for one party, “Mana”, in an electorate means another party “Internet Mana” doesn’t have to get 5% for list MPs, but I assume Graeme Edgeler has checked all that out with the election authorities. I thought, for example, that if David Seymour wins Epsom for Act, then the 5% rule doesn’t apply to Act. Under the “Internet Mana” arrangement – if it is all legitimate – then perhaps if Seymour wins Epsom for Act, another new party “Act Conservative” could get list MPs. Do others read the MoU the same way I have?
     • Rich 1.1.1

       27 May 2014 at 12:47 pm

       There is specific provision for “component parties”.

       The Alliance (used to) consist of several parties with their own residual identities.

       If ACT wanted to form a joint party with the Conservatives, it could. It would still have to get over ~1.25% to get a second MP.

       It’s arguable that we already have an undeclared National/ACT/Peter Dunne party that gets two extra seats by running pseudo-independent candidates in Epsom and Ohairu.
       • Matthew Hooton 1.1.1.1

         27 May 2014 at 1:00 pm

         Yes, but that deal also extended to the electorates, so people stood for “the Alliance” in the electorates not for “NewLabour” “Green” etc. I didn’t realise that a person could have stood for “NewLabour”, won a seat and then “the Alliance” would have got list MPs. I don’t doubt the lawyers have checked this out properly but struggling to find the relevant section in Electoral Act that says an electorate win by a “component party” means 5% threshold waived for the merged party.
         • Tracey 1.1.1.1.1

           27 May 2014 at 1:06 pm

           not everyone can organise a secret but public cup of tea.
         • Rich 1.1.1.1.2

           27 May 2014 at 1:07 pm

           S.191 (4) (b) (ii)
           • Matthew Hooton 1.1.1.1.2.1

             27 May 2014 at 1:10 pm

             Thanks. Quite turgid legal language but that seems to cover it.
     • Tracey 1.1.2

       27 May 2014 at 1:04 pm

       Can you quote the part of the mou you understand states they will run as seperate parties in electorates. My tablet wont download the mou at prsent.
       • Matthew Hooton 1.1.2.1

         27 May 2014 at 1:07 pm

         It won’t cut and paste, but see clauses 13-17 at https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-OsCSmT5K89LUwxOExmUjJpN2c/edit?pli=1
         • Tracey 1.1.2.1.1

           27 May 2014 at 1:19 pm

           thanks matthew.

           I gather they are not running in electorates against each other. So provided act and conservatives reach a similar agreement they could do the same..

           My tablet just doesnt like that link… Canusually download pdfs, goddam
           • yeshe 1.1.2.1.1.1

             27 May 2014 at 1:43 pm

             tracey .. i had to log in onto my google account, only then could I download .. worth a try ?
             • Tracey …

               27 May 2014 at 2:36 pm

               will give it a go
     • Tracey 1.1.3

       27 May 2014 at 1:26 pm

       they have a specific clause ruling out forming government with national.

       I am one who believes winston does everyone a disservice by not stating preferred govt partners.
2. TheContrarian 2

   27 May 2014 at 11:35 am

   Kim Dotcom reminds me of the monorail guy from The Simpsons
   • Tracey 2.1

     27 May 2014 at 12:17 pm

     funny, thats who key and his brighter future remind me of
   • minarch 2.2

     27 May 2014 at 4:28 pm

     Im thinking more

     Sgt Schultz

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmzsWxPLIOo
3. Bearded Git 3

   27 May 2014 at 11:43 am

   Another good reason to vote for Hone in Te Tai Tokerau.
4. Ant 4

   27 May 2014 at 11:51 am

   As a member I’m not incredibly stoked, but if it flips the Nats then its worth it.
5. Naki man 5

   27 May 2014 at 11:57 am

   Sue Bradford quits good on her
   • Tracey 5.1

     27 May 2014 at 12:20 pm

     she has her principles and this breached them, so we agree naki man. Highly ironic from you given your support of the pollies with principles for sale.
6. Kenny Smith 6

   27 May 2014 at 12:03 pm

   So Hone is siding with a man who made millions allowing users to his site to upload/download child porn, and Kim is siding with a party who’s No2, said she [Deleted – prove it or leave it out – MS].

   Real Class there.
   • Bearded Git 6.1

     27 May 2014 at 12:06 pm

     You sound scared Smith. That’s 5% to the left at a stroke. Lab 33, Gr 11, I/Mana 5=49%

     Key made a huge strategic mistake by calling the election early.
     • weka 6.1.1

       27 May 2014 at 12:16 pm

       “Key made a huge strategic mistake by calling the election early.”

       how so?
       • Bearded Git 6.1.1.1

         27 May 2014 at 12:22 pm

         It’s allowed all of the opposition parties to organise and plan campaigns, party lists, finances, party alliances around a specific date.
         • TheContrarian 6.1.1.1.1

           27 May 2014 at 12:24 pm

           So if the election wasn’t until November parties would not be able organise and plan campaigns, party lists, finances, party alliances around a specific date?
           • Bearded Git 6.1.1.1.1.1

             27 May 2014 at 12:32 pm

             He should have called the Sept 20 election the minimum time before (6 weeks?) while until then giving the vague impression of a December election.
             • weka …

               27 May 2014 at 12:35 pm

               that makes sense. It would make him look like a bastard though.
             • Tracey …

               27 May 2014 at 12:41 pm

               so he announced too early you mean? Not according to the polls.

               The american woman part of rock the vote says one reason young dont vote is cos they think the result is a foregone conclusion so they think their vote doesnt matter. Hopefully that helps gosman understand why polls consistently overstating a partys support is a pr tool…

               Dotcom will know how to talk to youth, and quickly, in their language.

               If the nat party mp who gave evidence for banks is right and dotcom will do anything to bring down key, then the “game” has just begun.

               As for hone, people are so keen to pigeon hole our parties and leaders, that tgey forget he may not hate business as much as some paint him.
   • weka 6.2

     27 May 2014 at 12:19 pm

     Kenny, I’m sure many of us will be grateful if you can share who your ISP is that doesn’t allow its customers to use child porn.
   • Stephanie Rodgers 6.3

     27 May 2014 at 12:23 pm

     Transparent attack line is transparent, and also funny, given that a key point of the indictment against Megaupload is:

     “Megaupload employs a comprehensive take down method to identify and remove child pornography, but does not employ a similar method in regards to copyright infringement.”
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure_of_Megaupload#Indictment
     • Tracey 6.3.1

       27 May 2014 at 12:33 pm

       how dare he put children ahead of money. The bastard! Key doesnt make that mistake, no siree
   • Tracey 6.4

     27 May 2014 at 12:28 pm

     using your logic john key is illegal cos imagine how many paedophiles and other law breakers were able to make money through his dealings for them, including tax havens and his party of the industry that fucked ireland and the world in 2007-2008
   • wtl 6.5

     27 May 2014 at 12:39 pm

     Moderators: I believe the above comment by Kenny Smith needs attention as it may be defamatory.
   • Kenny Smith 6.6

     27 May 2014 at 1:31 pm

     http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2011/05/first-annette-now-hone.html
     • Stephanie Rodgers 6.6.1

       27 May 2014 at 2:04 pm

       That doesn’t prove your statement at all. It’s a transcript of an interview in which Duncan Garner makes claims about something Annette Sykes said.
       • Tracey 6.6.1.1

         27 May 2014 at 2:39 pm

         keepingstock is where gosman blogs. This may pass as evidence over there.

         if you follow the logic banks must be guilty cos dotcom and two others say so… you agree kenny?
       • Kenny Smith 6.6.1.2

         27 May 2014 at 3:30 pm

         She has admitted it, and TeMana supporters know it.
         • Tracey 6.6.1.2.1

           27 May 2014 at 3:41 pm

           can you link to her admission.

           given john key supports the deaths of innocents… do you support his govt?
   • Huginn 6.7

     27 May 2014 at 5:38 pm

     Kenny Smith
     You are lying
     Kim Dotcom has always had zero tolerance for child porn. The MPAA complained from the start that Mega took down child porn but allowed copyrighted material to go up. You can read that in the indictment.

     Mega’s argument was that child porn is self evidently wrong – to see it is to know what it is, but you can’t know that a work is subject to copyright until the right-holder makes a claim.
7. weka 7

   27 May 2014 at 12:14 pm

   On the plus side: new energy and initiatives on the left, an increase in publicity for left wing policies during the election campaign, and Mana party voters are much less likely to have a wasted party vote (assuming IM gets the 5%).

   On the downside: Labour might get scared by the increase in leftwing policy and let Peters dictate the next govt. Or if IM doesn’t reach 5% enough party votes are wasted that give the election to NACT.

   My main concern is that not enough voters understand tactical voting.
   • Bearded Git 7.1

     27 May 2014 at 12:23 pm

     Weka-IM doesn’t have to reach 5%. Hone will win Te Tai Tokerau.
     • weka 7.1.1

       27 May 2014 at 12:37 pm

       ah thanks, brain fade this morning. Hopefully someone else 😉 will do the maths to see what the issues are re IM party vote vs electorate vote, overhang etc.
   • Tracey 7.2

     27 May 2014 at 1:37 pm

     it seems they are targetting those reluctant to vote, the young, pasiffika and maori voters. Will be fascinating to watch their strategy and use of tecnology unfold.

     Internet party will stand about 15 candidates in electorates where no mana party xandidate stands.
     • yeshe 7.2.1

       27 May 2014 at 1:52 pm

       Considering how it took them less than 24 hours to get over 2000 paid up members ( and then many more), their voters’ targeting should be a work of art to behold imho. Whatever else one thinks Kim Dotcom might be, he is a proven and genius master of internet innovation. I’m really excited for what it means .. 21st century means to getting new voters, young and old, of all backgrounds, ethnicities and cultures … for me, it virtually guarantees Nact’s loss at the election .. happy days.
8. Tracey 8

   27 May 2014 at 12:25 pm

   Does anyone know why bradford never joined the greens? Not enough focus on poverty and beneficiaries for her?
   • Matthew Hooton 8.1

     27 May 2014 at 12:33 pm

     She did. She was a Green MP.
     • Tracey 8.1.1

       27 May 2014 at 12:51 pm

       thanks matthew, i thought so, but then convinced myself i was wrong due to old age brain fade. Funnier because she was one reason i supported the greens… And s59a reform.

       I know she likes her place on the radical fringe and we need those people for a number of reasons.
     • Tiger Mountain 8.1.2

       27 May 2014 at 1:03 pm

       Sue is a career leaver of groups, does not work well with someone else leading, and maintains her small but loyal 80s Auckland Unemployed Rights coterie that generally moves with her.

       Mana.com, ManaNet, etc is not her style but she deserves much credit for holding the line virtually single handed whilst a GreenMP for beneficiaries as Labour introduced “Jobs Jolt” and the two Paulas a US style ‘war on the poor’.

       The memory hole is deep in NZ politics, but the Mana Internet Party arrangement looks easier than the Alliance with four parties, that worked quite well for a period.

       The point of this exercise is simply to deny John Phillip ShonKey a third term and minimise the wasted vote to the left of Lab/Green, and the potential vote that curiously don’t relate to left/right.
       • Rich 8.1.2.1

         27 May 2014 at 1:17 pm

         Quite.

         I’m not sure what the Internet Party policies are that are so incompatible with Mana? Does DotCom want to use legislation to confiscate Maori land, which is what drove Hone to split with Labour, right? I kinda doubt it.

         While I guess Mana might want to abolish capitalism in the long term, do they have a policy of immediately banning private businesses like Mega? I didn’t think so.
   • just saying 8.2

     27 May 2014 at 12:45 pm

     Bradford represented the Greens in parliament.

     My advice to what used to be Te Mana – get the money upfront – some sort of airtight contract. Please don’t operate under the assumption of trustworthiness. Still a lot of people counting on Mana to be their voice in Parliament.
     • Rich 8.2.1

       27 May 2014 at 12:58 pm

       Basically, she wanted to be co-leader, but the party members elected Metiria. This was mostly due to a feeling that it was time to renew the parties team and pass on to a new generation (at one point all but one of the caucus were over 45).

       Also, the party has moved slightly to the right. I think it reached a low point when it voted for the CERA Bill, but it seems to be finding its feet again. Having two or three Mana/Internet MPs will only anchor that process. (Or even four, which would mean we have Annette Sykes and John Minto in parliament).
9. Naki man 9

   27 May 2014 at 12:31 pm

   Watch your back Hone

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_jh7aC3Tk4
10. shorts 10

    27 May 2014 at 12:36 pm

    like many I don’t trust Dotcom’s motivations… but I also feel this could be a wonderful opportunity for Mana and if the internet party is anything more than a single election platform then them too – goodness knows Labour (and to a much lesser degree the Greens) has done little to motivate young people to their cause… and to be frank the Labour stinks of being inflexible and slow to enter this century – so all power to this rather odd marriage, at worst it will make the election more interesting
    • unpccougar 10.1

      27 May 2014 at 12:43 pm

      It seems to me that anyone that becomes involved with Dotcom ends up getting thrown under the bus. Will be interesting to see how this plays out with the public.
      • shorts 10.1.1

        27 May 2014 at 12:59 pm

        Thats not how its all unfolded from my following of Mr Dotcom and the case he is embroiled in… if anything he sounds like your average big pant wearing Auckland property developer only he hasn’t cost his investors millions, yet
        • Tracey 10.1.1.1

          27 May 2014 at 1:14 pm

          one aspect of the dotcom thing not often discussed, leaving aside whether he is guilty or innocent for a moment, is how many kiwis get illegally wiretapped or bullied by authorities but xant afford to fight back? The rich guy can.

          Most of my clients are people bullied by a consents dept at a council. The behaviour of councils is often overbearing and bloodyminded, frequently punctuated by a belief that they dont have to explain how they reached their decision. These owners get a letter in the post telling them if they dont do as council says they face a $200,000 fine. That tends to scare people into submission cos you need tens of thousands to challenge so many just roll over and spend their hard earned on building work that may never be required by the act and regs.

          Just cos dotcom is rich and big, doesnt mean he is not being bullied by large organisations.
          • shorts 10.1.1.1.1

            27 May 2014 at 1:52 pm

            its not discussed at all – except occasionally on blogs… regardless of your views on the man… if you like privacy and freedom we all have him to thank for bringing a lot of the activities of our spies and masters into the public realm
            • Tracey 10.1.1.1.1.1

              27 May 2014 at 2:31 pm

              yup because if you are rich it is easier to get listened to…
          • yeshe 10.1.1.1.2

            27 May 2014 at 1:55 pm

            +1
          • bad12 10.1.1.1.3

            27 May 2014 at 3:05 pm

            Yep, Hone like i know exactly what Kim Dotcom went through when the raid went down on the Mansion,

            While us here are used to smaller numbers in the raiding parties than what got used on Dotcom such raids, too many of them based upon spurious grounds with the participants carrying far too much ‘hardware’, are a regular occurrence ”in the hood”…
      • felix 10.1.2

        27 May 2014 at 6:32 pm

        “It seems to me that anyone that becomes involved with Dotcom ends up getting thrown under the bus. “

        Doesn’t bode well for John Key then…
11. Tracey 11

    27 May 2014 at 1:42 pm

    Labour will make no concession to hone in te tai tokerau.

    Given today’s announcement and the possibility of imp getting 3 candidates in parliament, i hope it doesnt end up being the difference between another three years of national and not.
    • Skinny 11.1

      27 May 2014 at 2:30 pm

      Labour has a great candidate in Kelvin Davis and the local Labour team see this amalgamation between the 2 as a great opportunity to kick Hone off his perch. Why didn’t the chicken shit drop himself to number 3 on the party list and allow others to be promoted ahead of him? I say he is scared of losing his electorate seat after Mana supporters have balked at the link with Dotcom.
      • Tracey 11.1.1

        27 May 2014 at 2:35 pm

        I think kelvin should have been way higher up the list if labour had really valued him.

        the country needs voices like hones whether you agree with him or not he demands the poor be listened to. under shearer labour showed the poor go under the bus to get the middle. I write of the beneficiary fixing his roof. if you squint la our still looks like national
12. Will@Welly 12

    27 May 2014 at 2:27 pm

    I suspect the Mana/Dotcom alliance will end in tears. I was really hoping to see an honest fight by Hone and Annette, as I think both of them have/had a real chance of taking both seats.
    Labour needs to re-think its strategy. Even if it throws everything at Te Tai Tokerau, and wins the seat, it is not ‘gaining’ a Government seat.
    Strategy, strategy, strategy!
    Watching what is going on, it is like watching a blind man riding a horse, that is chasing its tail, meanwhile the rider thinks he is charging to the finish line!
13. basd12 13

    27 May 2014 at 3:11 pm

    David Cunliffe talking on RadioNZ National news at 3, words to this effect, ”Kelvin Davis will be fully contesting the Te Tai Tokerau electorate, i expect Him to win that seat”, and, ”Labour will be fully contesting all the Maori electorates and we hope to take them all back”,

    i won’t say exactly what run through my mind as i heard those words spoken by Cunliffe, i would expect a severe spanking from the Mods if i did,

    The mild version, ”Go for it David, when you have ”taken back” all those Maori electorates enjoy the next 3 years as Opposition leader wont you”,

    We friggin wont that’s for sure…
    • Disraeli Gladstone 13.1

      27 May 2014 at 5:01 pm

      It makes sense to me, frankly. Mana alone was a possible stable partner. Internet MANA isn’t. We can’t trust that something to do with Dotcom won’t explode during the next three years and if Internet MANA is in government, it might let National right back in after the controversy.

      So better to just kill the whole sorry movement now and hope that Labour + Greens (with Winston) will be enough.
14. Populuxe1 14

    27 May 2014 at 3:15 pm

    And can the last non-racist socialist to leave MANA please turn off the free WiFi. No, really, I don’t get it at all. MANA is supposed to be fighting white capitalist greed-os of dubious ethics and racial sensitivities, not getting into bed with them. It’s the equivalent of the Maori Party going into coalition with National for a few leftovers and scraps. FFS he gave money to John effin Banks and would probably be besties with Shonkey if Shonkey were less Washington’s whore. Urgh – I was hoping they were going to stay clean enough to act as a counterbalance to all the centrism in the grand left coalition. Yuck yuck yucky yuck. It just makes a mockery of the Maori seats if some German criminal can use them to get his tentacles into Parliament. Jesus wept. This is the first time I’ve applauded Sue Bradford since the “anti-smacking” law was introduced.
    • Populuxe1 14.1

      27 May 2014 at 3:29 pm

      This new marriage of convenience will also go tits up on the iceberg of progressive drug policy, which the IP AnCap fanboys will demand but is poison to the MANA electorate. Also IP’s rejection of Intellectual Property as a concept is entirely contrary to the interests of Maori. God this is so stupid, what was Hone thinking?! Where the fuck is John Minto? Has he gone Patty Hirst or what?
      • Tracey 14.1.1

        27 May 2014 at 3:43 pm

        if there were an election today who would get your party vote?
        • Populuxe1 14.1.1.1

          27 May 2014 at 3:58 pm

          That’s a slanted question. I’d rather tell you that I would probably give my party vote to NZ First and give my candidate vote to a Green or less likely Labour. The candidate vote is also important if you genuinely want to understand my political sensibilities rather than just set me up for an attack.

          Of course, if I lived in Epsom I would be voting National.
      • Disraeli Gladstone 14.1.2

        27 May 2014 at 5:02 pm

        “Also IP’s rejection of Intellectual Property as a concept is entirely contrary to the interests of Maori.”

        This is something I’m surprised hasn’t come up more.
        • Populuxe1 14.1.2.1

          27 May 2014 at 5:26 pm

          I suspect Hone may not have thought that one through.
          • Disraeli Gladstone 14.1.2.1.1

            27 May 2014 at 5:39 pm

            To be fair, I don’t think the Internet Party has an official copyright policy yet, but I suspect it’s going to be quite a revolutionary, throw back the reins of copyright, freedom type policy.

            Maori gain a lot from copyright laws in helping to protect their cultural property, especially beyond New Zealand where statutory protection from the Treaty can’t be used as another avenue.

            As a creative person myself, I’m pretty terrified at what the Internet Party might cook up as their official policy. I really hope Labour or the Greens take it upon themselves to release a modern, but sensible intellectual property policy: fit for the 21st century, but protecting people who put a lot of time into creating things for very little gain.
            • Rich 14.1.2.1.1.1

              27 May 2014 at 8:56 pm

              You think the US would ever support an enforceable law that protects 200 year old cultural properties? (It would be hard to write one that doesn’t also allow the English to demand royalties on any production of Shakespeare or Dickens, and would ban Mr Pip as an unauthorised adaption).

              Anyway, all copyright laws are likely to do is allow iwicrats to trouser a few hundred grand from Nike for letting them use a haka in advertising. They don’t do anything for ordinary Maori kids, who might, like anyone else, not want their door knocked down by the cops for downloading a few songs.
        • basd12 14.1.2.2

          27 May 2014 at 5:27 pm

          A grand display there Disraeli, i am not going to even bother attempting to answer any of the points you rant about,

          the fact that you are hating on the InternetMana alliance is a good indicator for me, i will be voting for it…
          • Disraeli Gladstone 14.1.2.2.1

            27 May 2014 at 5:34 pm

            What a strange way to decide how to vote!
15. Chooky 15

    27 May 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Martyn Bradbury from the Daily Blog on the new Mana and Internet Party Alliance

    “What the MANA movement – Internet Party Alliance will look like

    A Government of Labour, Green and NZ First with supply and confidence support from MANA/Internet Party alliance is preferable any day of the week to a Government of National, ACT, Conservative Party, Maori Party and United Future.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/05/27/what-the-mana-movement-internet-party-alliance-will-look-like/

    “The alliance that so many political pundits said would never, could never and should never happen is happening and as someone who has worked hard at setting up political options to change the parliamentary math so that progressives can beat John Key in this years election, I’m pleased as hell that they are working together.

    This alliance allows all the potential of what Kim Dotcom has initiated with his Internet Party to be fulfilled. It means no vote under 5% is wasted and the combined total support of the Internet Party and MANA Movement could easily breach 3% giving them a real shot at 4-5 MPs, that could be the difference between forming a Government for supply and confidence and not forming a Government.

    This alliance gives MANA access to resources and technology they could never obtain, I’d expect to see MANA adopting the same type of phone app that has given the Internet Party such stratospheric membership numbers.
    The two issues that will dominate the media in the run up to the election are inequality and the ongoing Snowden revelations, issues which are core to MANA and core to the Internet Party meaning their messages will find a willing electorate.”…..
    • Populuxe1 15.1

      27 May 2014 at 3:52 pm

      Lol, no. A phone app is not going to do anything for MANA that their policy platform had not already done. It’s mainly been successful for the Internet Party’s membership numbers is because there are a lot of disenfranchised fedora-wearing hipster fanboys out there of libertarian/AnCap leanings who used to haunt ACT on Campus but found ACT to boring.
      The general public is far less concerned about Snowden. Yes, they will be worried about inequality, but mainly their own. So business as usual: the economy, taxes, education, employment. Nobody will be able to get their head around what IP-MANA are supposed to stand for anymore. IP supporters will outnumber MANA supporters in the mix and everything will go pearshaped.
      • Tracey 15.1.1

        27 May 2014 at 3:57 pm

        I disagree with the ACT part but my nephews and their mates are middle upperclass white fanboys and they say they will vote ip or not at all… who knows but I doubt ip will attract act libertarians
        • Populuxe1 15.1.1.1

          27 May 2014 at 4:01 pm

          Why do you doubt that? The old New Zealand Pirate Party is dominated by them.
          • Tracey 15.1.1.1.1

            27 May 2014 at 5:13 pm

            because libertarians will not see mana as obvious bedfellows
            • Populuxe1 15.1.1.1.1.1

              27 May 2014 at 5:36 pm

              Pretty sure a lot of MANA peeps didn’t see Dotcom as an obvious bedfellow either
              • felix …

                27 May 2014 at 6:52 pm

                Nah it works better that way around. Mana with its street-level protest-based roots has a natural empathy for others perceived to be unfairly persecuted by a powerful state.
                • Populuxe1 …

                  27 May 2014 at 10:51 pm

                  You mean like Hitler and the Unibomber?
                  • felix …

                    28 May 2014 at 3:51 am

                    No, like Mana and Teh Internet Party.
                    • Populuxe1 …

                      28 May 2014 at 10:13 am

                      shrugs it’s all relative. You can have your last word again – it’s the tidiest way of dealing with you, but your feigned obtuseness is positively adorable. But if one may for a moment point out that the Tea Party regard Cliven Bundy as being unfairly persecuted by a powerful state – I trust MANA wouldn’t welcome him with open arms.
                    • felix …

                      28 May 2014 at 6:48 pm

                      I have more I’d like to add but you’ve informed me that the discussion is over.
        • phillip ure 15.1.1.2

          27 May 2014 at 4:48 pm

          @ tracey..

          ..my son gives me the same feedback about his non-political friends..

          ..absolutely no interest in politics/voting..

          ..but they will go and vote for dotcom..

          ..they like him..

          ..it’s as simple as that..

          ..and that he has said ‘fuck you!’ to much of ‘authority’..

          ..just makes them like him all the more..
          • Disraeli Gladstone 15.1.1.2.1

            27 May 2014 at 5:04 pm

            On the contrary, I work with a hell of a lot young people and I can count the potential Internet voters on one hand.

            Everyone has different anecdotes.
            • Tracey 15.1.1.2.1.1

              27 May 2014 at 5:15 pm

              and do they talk of not voting at all?
              • Disraeli Gladstone …

                27 May 2014 at 5:23 pm

                A fair few. Not as many as I think the stereotype has taken up, but still too many. I don’t think many will be convinced by the Internet Party, either. Those who don’t vote are generally quite firm in their non-voting.
                • Tracey …

                  27 May 2014 at 7:02 pm

                  I think you have to look at why people dont vote first
                  • Populuxe1 …

                    28 May 2014 at 11:10 am

                    Ignorance of how democracy works and lazy stupidity in general. In the UK over a third didn’t vote in the EU elections and Bam! that fasc1st little turd Farrage and his UKIP naz1s are off to Brussels. I blame that cretin Russell Brand.
          • yeshe 15.1.1.2.2

            27 May 2014 at 5:17 pm

            exactly phillip … and it’s nothing the MSM polls will ever pick up on. bring it on, I say !!!
    • basd12 15.2

      27 May 2014 at 5:17 pm

      Martyn’s hypothesis has a glaring fault, His scenario pre-supposes that NZFirst will side with Labour,

      That’s so far away from a ‘given’ that the conclusion Martyn then draws had me having a wee snigger,

      This might be wishful thinking and not being a gambling man i wont put money on it, a good campaign from both Labour and the Green Parties along with 3–4% of the Party vote,(mostly coming off the fence), for InternetMana might, just might, make ‘Winston’s choice’ irrelevant,

      i can see it happening and will be voting to try and ensure it does…
      • Populuxe1 15.2.1

        27 May 2014 at 5:43 pm

        I do hope you have chosen a particularly flavoursome hat to talk through the hole of because you will be eating it. Labour is frantically signalling NZF and NZF is responding. NZF and the Greens have also discovered a number of commonalities, though given the Greens really have nowhere else to go it seems likely Labour’s preference will be NZF.
        • Rich 15.2.1.1

          27 May 2014 at 9:01 pm

          It’s pretty much impossible that Lab+NZF will be over 50%, so they’ll need the Greens to form a government. If Mana/IP have three or four MPs, then it becomes increasingly likely they’ll need them as well.
16. phillip ure 16

    27 May 2014 at 4:35 pm

    sue bradford is doing a disjointed/irrational-rant against the deal..on nat-rad..

    ..and i still have heard no rational anti-argument from her..

    ..just exactly how this is ‘a stab thru the heart’ to mana..

    ..and how the politics of harawira/sykes/minto et al..

    ..will be somehow comprimised..?

    ..as i say..it was irrational..

    ..and reminiscent of that palestinian splinter-group rant from monty python..

    ..some sort of ideological-purity commanded to hold sway over all
    ‘believers’..all options..

    ..but bradford will now have a new career..

    ..the right now love her..

    ..so the corporate-media will fall over themselves to hire her as a commentator..

    ..you mark my words..
    • Chooky 16.1

      27 May 2014 at 4:52 pm

      I have respect for Sue Bradford but old style socialism is just that….the future is internet, technology and youth!

      ….if Mana can work with Dotcom and not compromise on their socialist policies then I think it is a win/win for both parties.

      ….it makes a socialist party hip( when it was no longer hip)

      …it provides a socialist party with the means and technology to reach out to both disaffected and disadvantaged youth ( what would Tony Benn have thought?)

      i hope it works and if it does Sue Bradford will see this and go back to Mana

      (…the fact that the right wing hate the idea speaks for itself)
      • Disraeli Gladstone 16.1.1

        27 May 2014 at 5:05 pm

        When middle-aged, older people refer to something as “hip”, I can assure you it’s definitely not “hip”.
        • phillip ure 16.1.1.1

          27 May 2014 at 5:14 pm

          what a fatuous/simplistic comment there dis…

          ..substitute ‘relevant’ for ‘hip’ if you must..

          ..which is what the henfellow is saying..

          ..the blueprint for significant poverty-ending/anti-austerity/’change’ policies that mana has..

          ..are the mood for the moment..

          ..are ‘relevant’..and especially to the young..

          ..who see national/labour offering nothing for them/their futures..

          ..neoliberalism is in freefall..

          ..and it is time for new ways..

          ..not greed/self-interest driven policies..

          ..and i think many many people will be both surprised at how successful this pairing will be..

          ..and will be forced to eat their sneering-words..
        • Populuxe1 16.1.1.2

          27 May 2014 at 5:49 pm

          I wasn’t aware that socialism was, er, um, “un-hip” in the first place. Of course if Occupy was anything to go by, capitalist fat cats are.
          I honestly can’t think of two more badly mismatched parties – it’s like the Greens going with ACT or something.
          • felix 16.1.1.2.1

            27 May 2014 at 6:54 pm

            I think you just did. :p
    • basd12 16.2

      27 May 2014 at 5:09 pm

      Laugh Out Loud, Phillip my friend, Sue Bradford can count, at the point of the first proposal to form the Internet MANA alliance Bradford was number 4 on the party list, behind John Minto, Annette Sykes and Hone,

      She like me, as soon as the discussions began would have done the numbers and done the numbers around the list placings needed to bring the internet arm of this alliance on board,

      Like me, Bradford would have seen Her 4th spot on the Party List slip sliding away, hence the ongoing toy toss,

      Believing myself, knowing a number of the players, that Bradford’s displeasure is singularly fueled by ideological purity has me Laughing Out Loud at myself for a moment entertaining such a notion…
      • phillip ure 16.2.1

        27 May 2014 at 5:26 pm

        i agree..i also noted that mathematics-reason for displeasure on her part..way back when..

        ..number four to number seven is quite a/the drop..

        ..and must be factored in as a reason for her displeasure..

        ..but it’s a shame she has walked..

        ..as she has a record to be proud of..

        ..and was an asset for mana..

        ..and it would have been good to have her voice again in parliament..

        ..and still..the only reason i have heard from her..

        ….is ‘sucking up to a german millionaire’..

        ..which..coming from an academically-trained person like bradford..

        ..is kinda surprising..and lacking..

        ..and i just hope that she now retires from the scene with grace and dignity..

        ..and doesn’t do a shane jones all over mana..

        ..stepping out of the tent..turning around..

        ..and pissing on all still in that tent..

        ..i hope she is better than that..

        ..but she will be kicking herself..

        ..if number seven gets in..

        ..(which i fully expect to happen..)

        ..and surely..that the right are swinging in behind her..

        ..with their choruses of ‘goodonya sue!’..

        ..surely that must ring alarm bells for her..?

        …you’d think..?
        • basd12 16.2.1.1

          27 May 2014 at 5:39 pm

          Lolz Phillip, i have had the joy of a close up look at both Bradford and Metiria many many years ago now, i may as time goes on divulge some of what i think based upon such knowledge, but, for now, i am quietly laughing here at Bradford’s actions,

          Hone says it best via Prime News tonight, ”No one person is bigger then the Party”, ae kia ora to that Hone…
          • Populuxe1 16.2.1.1.1

            27 May 2014 at 5:51 pm

            Oh, I dunno. Dotcom is pretty damned big
        • Karen 16.2.1.2

          27 May 2014 at 5:45 pm

          WTF? How do you equate a billionaire who didn’t bother to pay the contractors who worked on his ostentatious mansion, and needed 4 nannies to look after his kids, with someone who has a university degree and has spent all her adult life working for the poor and dispossessed?
          • phillip ure 16.2.1.2.1

            27 May 2014 at 5:51 pm

            excuse my ignorance/non-comprehension..

            ..but what exactly do you mean by ‘how do you equate’..?

            (and factcheck..dotcom had no legal liability to pay them..(but of course a moral one..)..and they have now been paid..

            ..is that all you have..?

            ..and factcheck..i seem to remember reading two of his children are autistic..

            ..so yr ‘point’ does seem a tad shabby in nature..eh..?

            ..and factcheck:..bradford comes from northland pakeha old-money..

            ..a street in kaitaia bears her maiden-name..

            ..so..y’know..!
          • Tracey 16.2.1.2.2

            27 May 2014 at 7:07 pm

            he is not standing for parliament.

            john banks was ed and ec of hujlich… any problems with him actually being an mp and cabinet minister?
          • bad12 16.2.1.2.3

            27 May 2014 at 7:07 pm

            Karen ideological purity is writ large above every word of your comment,

            IF, i were to suggest that every action taken by Sue Bradford from 1991 onward was taken with the direct intention of Her getting to sit in the Parliament i would rightly be called upon to provide some proof of such an assertion,

            SO, i will not make the assertion…
17. Mike the Savage One 17

    27 May 2014 at 9:02 pm

    So we have it now, Dotcom has got his paid “servant” Vikram and a few other “enthused” IP members authorised to sign the great deal in form of an alliance with Mana. I wonder how long that will last, and how Hone Harawira will cope with the “spiritual leader” of IP trying to whisper and send the odd “commands” to influence policy, process and more from the background.

    Offering money and technical support may sound great, but with rather different types of followers, and with largely contrasting policy platforms, there is plenty of room for issues to arise.

    Self proclaimed “internet freedom fighter” Dotcom seems very desperate, to get Key and Nats voted out of government, as otherwise there are few motivations that would explain this very bizarre combination.

    In the meantime it seems the Dotcom empire is continuing to unravel, and I feel that Mana members have lost long term vision and planning, and instead opted for a quicker and easier way to get another one or two into Parliament, which is not a given at all. Kelvin Davis seems determined to win Te Tai Tokerau, and if he beats Hone, this whole alliance will possibly never get anywhere much.

    Bomber Bradbury, who worked to get this deal stitched up, he must be dreaming to be able to convince voters that a 4 or 5 party government alliance will be appealing as an alternative. I’d rather vote Greens or Labour then, as they will cover much of what IP also want in regards of better internet services.

    Young prospective IP voters may be turned off by having Mana associated with IP, and young Mana voters may in some numbers also find it difficult to relate to bored, middle class nerds, that want nothing much else but more internet freedom and cheaper use of technology. What may seem like a vote winner, may at the same time also be a voter turn off.

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