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Manafort convicted and Cohen takes deal

Written By: - Date published: 10:36 am, August 22nd, 2018 - 137 comments
Categories: Donald Trump, International, Politics, us politics - Tags: ,

Donald Trump must be getting the presidential pardon power ready to exercise but who for will be an interesting question.  And these events happened almost simultaneously.

Paul Manafort has been convicted on eight counts.

From the New York Times:

Paul Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, was convicted on Tuesday in his financial fraud trial, bringing a dramatic end to a politically charged case that riveted the capital.

The verdict was a victory for the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, whose prosecutors built a case that Mr. Manafort hid millions of dollars in foreign accounts to evade taxes and lied to banks repeatedly to obtain $20 million in loans.

Mr. Manafort was convicted of five counts of tax fraud, two counts of bank fraud and one count of failure to disclose a foreign bank account. The jury was unable to reach a verdict on the remaining 10 counts, and the judge declared a mistrial on those charges.

And Michael Cohen has made a deal with prosecutors.  Again from the New York Times:

Michael D. Cohen, President Trump’s former fixer, pleaded guilty on Tuesday to breaking campaign finance laws and other charges. He made the extraordinary admission that he arranged payments to two women “at the direction of the candidate,” referring to Mr. Trump, to secure their silence about affairs they said they had with Mr. Trump.

Mr. Cohen told a judge in United States District Court in Manhattan that the payments were “for the principal purpose of influencing the election” for president in 2016.

The President will probably be spewing and should be worried.  From the above article:

The guilty plea and Mr. Cohen’s statements in court represent a pivotal moment in the investigation into the president: a once-loyal aide admitting that he made payments at the behest of the president to shield him from politically damaging disclosures.

Mr. Trump’s lawyers have, for months, said privately that they considered Mr. Cohen’s case to be potentially more problematic for the president than the investigation by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III.

These events make you wonder if you will be seeing this scene soon, in real life …

 

137 comments on “Manafort convicted and Cohen takes deal”

  1. dukeofurl 1

    Manafort is interesting, they will say he had limited role for the Campaign at the time –

    March 29, 2016: Manafort joins the Trump campaign as a Convention manager

    May 19, 2016: Manafort is promoted to campaign chairman

    August 19, 2016: Manafort resigns ( after his dodgy deals with pro Russian Ukraine President revealed)

    hes a long time Republican fixer, having been involved with Ford and Reagans campaigns

  2. Bill 2

    I must be missing something, yes?

    A high flyer found guilty of tax evasion and such like. Well, who’da thunk it!?

    And another guy makes hush money payments to a couple of people on behalf of a candidate.

    It’s hardly earth shattering stuff.

    • mickysavage 2.1

      Convicted of breaching Campaign Finance laws by making the payments. And said he did it at the behest of the candidate.

      • Morrissey 2.1.1

        This is a scandal, no doubt about it. But no one except the Democratic Party’s “leadership” and its media agents like the conspiracy theorist Rachel Maddow think this is really important.

        Meanwhile, while the Clintonist rump of the Democrats obsesses over the demonic Russian-masterminds-who-are-controlling-Trump-like-a-marionette, Trump’s cronies are busy dismantling the education system, stripping away almost every environmental protection in the nation, and creating havoc from Palestine to Pakistan.

        You, I, and the American public can expect to read thousands of pages and hear hundreds of hours of talk about Paul Manafort, Stormy Daniels and whoever else happens to be dragged into that grotesque sideshow, but we can be quite sure that the New York Times and CNN will NOT be covering stories like this….

        http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/08/17/waterless-in-gaza/

      • marty mars 2.1.2

        Yep. The dam bursts from an initial drip. Watergate proved that.

      • Bill 2.1.3

        So I wonder – is there a major party in the US (I should probably say “major campaign team”) that wouldn’t be found in breach of Campaign Finance if they and/or their personnel/employees were put under the microscope? I have my doubts.

        I’m not saying the stuff should be ignored. But the tiresome attempts to tie anything, everything or something back to Trump to produce some “Gotcha!” moment are getting zombie.

        Trump is President. He’s a business person who no doubt had business dealings in Russia and 1001 other places, as well as dealings with dodgy types. In that, he’s no different to other Presidents.

        Meanwhile, there’s a political establishment in the US that’s oozing toxicity from every crevice, but all eyes are to be directed to Trump.

        • left_forward 2.1.3.1

          No, there is not another major campaign team’s manager that has been convicted of fraud and tax evasion. You may have doubts about others (which is kinda irrelevant), but there is no longer doubt about Manafort or Cohen.

          For me Bill, it is your defense of the Trump that is tiresome – your attempt to find somewhere else to tie Trump’s collusion to – i.e. his collusion against truth, social democracy, the rights of individuals, and the rule of law.

          • Bill 2.1.3.1.1

            Your comment’s in the league of unadulterated idiocy.

            Where did I say another campaign manager or whatever had been convicted of fraud or tax evasion? You seemingly think that Manafort and Cohen are bad apples in an otherwise pristine barrel – which, though indicative of utter naivety or stupidity, is your right.

            And where is this fantasy defense of Trump that you think I run with?

            Plus, any time you care to unravel the tangled nonsense you’ve written in your final paragraph, y’know, just so that it musters a passing resemblance to “sensible”, well, that would be a good.

            • David Mac 2.1.3.1.1.1

              I agree Bill, right or wrong, the smoking gun is still far from being in Trump’s hand. I think his ongoing pursuit of loyalty through fear will be his ultimate undoing.

            • left_forward 2.1.3.1.1.2

              No, I don’t think Manafort and Cohen are the only bad apples, but there is no longer any doubt that they are – and this is indeed the news of the day. So why try to normalise the significance of the President’s campaign chairman and personal lawyer being such utter fraudsters?
              Sorry you didn’t understand me – but no need to be so rude.

              • corodale

                In 1997, the Republicans released two reports; one showing that Clinton was directly connected to the terrorism which triggered the Balkan wars and break-up of Yugoslavia. The second report was the Monica Lewinsky affair…

                War-crime is the standard we expect of a President, not parking-fines.

                Perhaps Trump has a big war planned, but while it hasn’t happened yet… perhaps he’s working on peace? Time will tell.

                https://www.globalresearch.ca/9-11-and-america-s-war-on-terrorism/24975

        • McFlock 2.1.3.2

          Felonies by members of a campaign team are a bit like the Oscar Wilde line about spouses: one or two individuals might be unfortunate, but approaching half a dozen implies a culture of corruption.

        • Tricledrown 2.1.3.3

          Bill Trump is not a Businesses Man
          He is a man child.
          He has garnered support from the Costa Nostra and the Russian Mafia to keep his wealth.
          He has a long history of corruption
          Even Murdoch newspapers are saying
          “All the Presidents Henchmen”
          On their front pages which means he’s a goner.
          When Murdoch turns on you their is no chance.

      • dukeofurl 2.1.4

        The mystery person :

        1. Michael Cohen presented himself as Individual-1’s “personal attorney.”
        2. “In or about January 2017 … [Individual-1] had become the President of the United States.

        We will have to whittle down the choices…LOL

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2

      I get the feeling it’s a couple of people being thrown to the wolves to try and prevent even more investigations. That it’s a See, these people were caught and thus the rest of us pure as the driven snow.

      Wonder how many will accept that.

      • Tricledrown 2.2.1

        Given that if Cohen has done a plea deal to stay out of prison (4 years in prison at his stage of life)
        Cohen is going to do whatever it takes to be home with his family.

  3. Andre 3

    The short-fingered vulgarian’s past public commentary is truly a thing of wonder. For any occasion, there’s always an apposite tweet.

    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17765950/trump-tweet-cohen-manafort-best-people

  4. Andre 4

    Some informed commentary about whether that final scene in the Mueller Time clip might actually happen.

    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17766218/michael-cohen-guilty-plea-trump-impeached-indicted

    tl;dr Unlikely from a federal agency. But there’s an opening for state authorities to test the limits of a sitting president’s immunity.

  5. adam 5

    Who cares that the drinker water in Flint is still undrinkable, that the Dakota Access pipeline is leaking, or that the US military is directing the drones which bomb children in their own school buses.

    When we sanction this type of political coverage, we are actively re-enforcing the distraction of the truly vial/evil crap perpetuated by the US republic gone astray.

    • Tricledrown 5.1

      Trump will now throw some dead cats on the table and swallow a few dead rats while unleashing some more twitter tirades.
      Every day Trump is sinking into his stinking swamp.
      Midterms are looking like a disaster for Trump.
      Funny how suddenly Microsoft were able to identify Russian hackers attacking right wing think tanks especially as Trump signalled he thinks the Russians/Putin would help the Democrats this time round on Que.

    • McFlock 5.2

      No, the buck stops at the presidency. And if this results in enough convictions to scare the obscenely corrupt of the future into merely being moderately corrupt, maybe it will no longer be “opposite day” when it comes to US cabinet appointments.

      Water and oil? The EPA is looking to bring back asbestos, ffs. And that, like pipelines and not properly treating the water so that lead doesn’t leach into the supply, is a top-down decision.

      • Morrissey 5.2.1

        Water and oil? The EPA is looking to bring back asbestos, ffs. And that, like pipelines and not properly treating the water so that lead doesn’t leach into the supply, is a top-down decision.

        Correct. But all that the Clinton rump of the Democrats—unfortunately that faction has a stranglehold on the party—and its media parrots like Rachel Maddow ever talk about is Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia. And Stormy Daniels.

        • McFlock 5.2.1.1

          Get the fuck over Clinton.

          What you don’t get is that decisions like pipelines and asbestos are legal. The only way to stop that level of hubris is to catch them doing something illegal and punish them. Even if nothing else (like if a candidate broke campaign laws to win an election as a puppet of a foreign power), that’s why the Mueller and associated investigations are important: they’re the only way the brakes can be put on the level of corruption we see in the US today.

          • Morrissey 5.2.1.1.1

            Get the fuck over Clinton.

            I’d be happy to do that as soon as she and her hapless cronies are gone from public life. Until then, however, we’re stuck with her endless self-pity, and reviews of her godawful book explaining how the dastardly Russian masterminds stole the election from her and installed the marionette Trump.

            The only way to stop that level of hubris is to catch them doing something illegal and punish them.

            So you’re endorsing the Democrats’ “strategy” that the only way to stop Trump, Betsy De Vos, Ajit Pai, Ryan Zinke, Rick Perry and the rest of them dismantling the social infrastructure and destroying the environment is to all but ignore the destruction they are wreaking and instead work on catching them out in peccadilloes (Stormy Daniels) and scandals that have nothing to do with the real and substantial damage they are perpetrating.

            Sadly for the prospects of that amazing plan, the voters aren’t as stupid as the Democratic “strategists” believe they are.

            • McFlock 5.2.1.1.1.1

              Firstly, nobody’s “all but ignoring” that shit.

              Secondly, nobody brought Clinton into this but you. Her book was released almost a year ago, and you’re still finding new reviews of it? 🙄

              Thirdly, what the fuck is your plan to stop T45 wrecking everything? Because at least the investigations have some hope of making his henchpeople a little bit worried. Do you have a better idea in how to win in a gerrymandered first past the post midterm campaign?

              • Morrissey

                Firstly, nobody’s “all but ignoring” that shit.

                You and I may not be ignoring it—but the Democratic Party leadership is. And so are the mainstream media.

                Secondly, nobody brought Clinton into this but you.

                It’s not possible to understand why the Democrats are not opposing Trump on substantial issues unless one understands that the Clinton wing of the party is in control. This mad obsession with, this hatred of, Russia is a direct legacy of Hillary Clinton’s “policies”, if such a term can be used to describe such aggression and provocation.

                Her book was released almost a year ago, and you’re still finding new reviews of it?

                My review is still to hit cyberspace. Keep an eye out for it in The Breen Report
                http://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/

                Thirdly, what the fuck is your plan to stop T45 wrecking everything? Because at least the investigations have some hope of making his henchpeople a little bit worried. Do you have a better idea in how to win in a gerrymandered first past the post midterm campaign?

                My plan, and I would have thought it would be the plan of the Democrats if they were a serious opposition, would be to talk and protest and organise against the terrible things he and his henchmen are doing. That’s not easy, and it doesn’t always garner headlines like publicizing prostitutes, porn stars and (marginal) Russian interference.

                • dukeofurl

                  There was a lot of ‘hatred of Russia too from the other Republican candidates – remember them.

                  What was unusual was Trumps embrace of anything Russian

                  Rubio
                  https://www.cfr.org/interactives/campaign2016/marco-rubio/on-russia
                  Rubio outlined the policies he would pursue toward Russia as president. He wrote that he would provide greater military assistance to Ukraine and work with European allies to impose additional sanctions on Russian individuals and companies, including state-owned oil company Gazprom, and restrict access to the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) payment system.

                  Cruz
                  https://www.cfr.org/interactives/campaign2016/ted-cruz/on-russia
                  Sen. Cruz has been highly critical of the Obama administration’s approach to Russia, suggesting that President Vladimir Putin is exploiting what he sees as a lack of U.S. resolve and credibility to pursue his strategic objectives in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

                  Following Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea, Cruz called on the United States to impose sanctions on the Russian energy and financial sectors, and advocated expanding exports of U.S. natural gas to help reduce Ukraine’s dependence on Russian energy. Cruz also called for placing anti-ballistic missile batteries in Poland and the Czech Republic to deter Russian aggression in Eastern Europe,

                  jeb Bush
                  https://www.cfr.org/interactives/campaign2016/jeb-bush/on-russia
                  Jeb Bush says the United States needs to treat Russia like a “bully” and make clear that its aggression in Eastern Europe will have “consequences.” He says the Obama administration has not gone far enough to show support for its NATO allies in Europe and should consider ramping up military exercises in Poland and the Baltic states, and stationing permanent forces in those countries.

                  The reality is Clinton was echoing the standard Us foreign policy approach to Russia- it may be ill advised but it wasnt part of her ‘madness’, doing a fact free rant about ‘La Clinton’ doesnt help your view at all.

                • McFlock

                  So you’re stuck with your own review of her book, and this is her fault?

                  You might have some credibility about mad obsessions, but it the investigations are still getting convictions. So maybe the investigations aren’t so mad, after all.

                  “Talk and protest and organise”. Good luck with that. What makes you think democrats aren’t doing that? They’re not running the Mueller investigation.

                  • Morrissey

                    You might have some credibility about mad obsessions,

                    Ouch! That was a palpable hit, sir!

                    ….the investigations are still getting convictions. So maybe the investigations aren’t so mad, after all.

                    We’ll soon see how much people care about it.

                    “Talk and protest and organise”. Good luck with that.

                    Sure, let’s skip the boring stuff and gather more evidence that he fools around with hookers. That will do it!

                    What makes you think democrats aren’t doing that?

                    The fact that all they do is talk about Russia.

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      Again, you miss the point.

                      How many of Trump’s staff either from the campaign or the white house have resigned because of “protests”?

                      How many were dumped because they were charged with crimes?

                    • Morrissey

                      I haven’t missed the point, and you know it. The point is: interfering with the election by Russian agents was so minimal as to be negligible, and the Democrats seem to have no option but to focus on something nobody cares about.

                    • McFlock

                      The dems aren’t the ones conducting a criminal investigation and getting convictions.

                      How many White house or T45 staff have been convicted by a protest? Because Mueller is approaching a half dozen.

                      Now folks in the White house are secretly recording each other and holding employment meetings in the supposedly secure Situation Room. I would have thought a regular meeting room or the WHCoS would be more appropriate, but maybe it was thought to be unrecordable… either way, people are beginning to have pretty clear personal contingency plans prepared.

                    • dukeofurl

                      You may be right Morrisey about the minimal amount of ‘Russian inreference’ – the $ amounts spent on Facebook ads are so small as to be invisible in US terms where Clinton alone raise $650 mill and the entire Dem campaign including PACs came to $1.4 bill.
                      Equivalent sum for Republicans/Trump was $950 mill

                      They probably spent more on ‘takeout coffee’ than The Russian meddling spend. But of course the email hacks was worth a lot more.
                      https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/campaign-finance/?noredirect=on

            • North 5.2.1.1.1.2

              ‘And no matter what….show me a foul Republican I’ll show you a more foul Democrat!. So say dissemblers Bill and Morrissey.

              • Morrissey

                My good friend North writes:

                show me a foul Republican I’ll show you a more foul Democrat!. So say dissemblers Bill and Morrissey.

                ?????

                Are you trying to insinuate, North, that it is somehow disloyal or dishonest—“dissemblers” LOLROTFLMAO!—to the “cause” to point out that the United States’ main “opposition” party is delinquent, deluded and “led” by depraved and disreputable no-hopers who have already, thanks to their mind-blowingly brilliant strategy of ignoring his substantial crimes and focusing instead on the chimera of “Russian meddling”, with the occasional demonstration of spluttering outrage about the likes of Stormy Daniels, all but guaranteed Trump’s second term?

                The Democrats are on average certainly more intelligent than the Republicans, but the grim fact remains: they are “led” by the likes of Nancy Pelosi and Charles Schumer, who are two of the most heartless, brutal people in the United States.

          • Bill 5.2.1.1.2

            Get the fuck over Clinton.

            Thankfully, progressives in the US are doing anything but “get[ting] the fuck over Clinton”

            The Democratic primaries are shaping up as a concerted challenge to the Clinton stranglehold on the party.

            I said way back when it looked as though Trump would win the Presidency that the silver lining could be a resurgent left in the US.

            That’s happening, and thank god there is no ‘free pass’ being offered off the back of any “lesser evil” bullshit. You want “the brakes […] put on the level of corruption we see in the US today”, then stop promoting perspectives that enable bastards.

            • McFlock 5.2.1.1.2.1

              Yeah, there’s a tendency in the left towards hoping that if things just get bad enough, everything will get better. I blame Marx for that.

              ISTR the left were resurgent when Sanders decided to become a Democrat. Then they packed a sad when most democrats-for-more-than-a-year didn’t agree with him, and decided to enable an evil prick win against a mere bastard.

              And some of them still think this colossal racist moron fuckwit is better than a bastard.

              • Morrissey

                Your contempt for “the left” is as unfair and wrongheaded as your contempt for the fact that most people in the Democratic Party preferred Bernie Sanders rather than Hillary Clinton.

              • Bill

                Well, I don’t ascribe to the immiseration nonsense you signpost in your first sentence.

                And again, here you go claiming that people who would have voted for Sanders somehow enabled Trump but offer precisely no evidence to back the claim.

                Meanwhile, we have Clinton’s own campaign team laying out their “Pied Piper” strategy to promote Trump above other Republican nominees in the Republican primaries and the DNC (wrong acronym?) being far from neutral in dealings between Sanders and Clinton.

                btw (an aside) If US drone strikes in countries they aren’t at war with have (excuse the pun) skyrocketed under Trump (which they have), and if Trump has waived the Presidential sign-off on drone strikes that Obama used (I believe he has), then given that the President is “out of the loop”, what is it that is being more aggressive and more fascistic than was the case under Obama? And what do you think the war monger Clinton would have done to contain things?

                • McFlock

                  The evidence is that in a post about Trump’s corrupt staff, some idiot still brought Clinton into the picture as a distraction.

                  As for your aside, letting the attack dogs off the leash is generally seen as a bit more aggressive than keeping them on the leash. And I think Clinton’s a better manager than to just give the pentagon a blank cheque.

                  As for immiseration – you said the silver lining of a trump presidency would be a resurgent left. If that’s not hoping that improvement will somehow emerge from things getting worse (not just economically, either), what is it?

                  Oh, and “pied piper” would have worked in a conventional campaign. The Democrat’s mistake was not recognising that a large chunk of the population has decided that objective reality doesn’t exist.

                  • Bill

                    Reads like you’ve lost the plot today and are getting a bit dishonest on it McFlock.

                    I said the silver lining could be a resurgent left. And looking for a possible silver lining in a bad situation is not the same as welcoming a dark cloud – as you know full well.

                    I’m not going to bother asking about this nonsense of a supposedly unconventional campaign or this thing about US voters not knowing what’s in front of their face.

                    The Democratic Party under the leadership of Clinton offered another five years of the same shit that people were sick and tired of. For better or worse, they understandably took a punt on “anything but this”.

                    Greek facebook memes (they outnumbered Russian ones btw) had nothing to do with the election result. Hillary Clinton rather magnificently losing more states than the other guy, delivered Donald Trump to the White House.

                    • McFlock

                      The democratic party membership chose someone who’d been a member for decades.

                      Would you say that “welcoming a dark cloud” is the same as “hoping that improvement will somehow emerge from things getting worse (not just economically, either)”?

                    • Bill

                      I haven’t commented on who or why the Democratic membership chose who they did as a nominee.

                      So that aside, acknowledging the shite of a shite situation while reasoning there’s a distinct possibility of something very specific occurring, isn’t “welcoming a dark cloud” and isn’t “hoping that improvement will somehow emerge from things getting worse (not just economically, either)

                    • Morrissey

                      The democratic party membership chose someone who’d been a member for decades.

                      So what if she’d been a Democrat for thirty years or whatever it was? The fact is: on foreign policy she was notorious for her role in the destruction of (to name just three) Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq and for her heartless rhetorical support for Israel’s depradations in the Occupied Territories and in Gaza; on domestic policy she was notorious for her stewardship of the brutal experiment on the poor in Milwaukee, and for hateful speeches like this….

                    • McFlock

                      @bill

                      The majority of people voting in the democratic primaries did not take that punt.

                      Additionally, misrepresenting what I wrote while claiming I misrepresented you is a nice illustration of how we both end up talking past each other.

                      @morrissey
                      get the fuck over it. She won, then she lost, then she published a book last year. You really aren’t compelled to belatedly review that book, any more than you’re compelled to mention her if someone dares to criticise dolt-45

                    • Bill

                      @ McFlock. To reiterate – I haven’t made any comment on the Sanders/Clinton run-off. So I’m lost as to why you throw it in twice in your reponses to my comments.

                      I have commented on the current Democratic primaries where a fair few progressive candidates are beating established candidates. (Articles on The Intercept, The Canary and Truthdig, to name a few)

                      And I have commented on the Presidential Election where the Democrats offered nothing bar the continuation of stuff people are sick and tired of – the punt on Trump as “anything but”.

                    • McFlock

                      Things get much easier when you mention specific topics.

                      FWIW, the majority of US voters didn’t take that punt, either.

                  • Morrissey

                    Fair enough, McFlock. I am over her now. Time to call her a statesman.

                    • McFlock

                      lols

                      It’s pretty simple.

                      If you were over her (or yourself), you wouldn’t call her anything, because you’d only discuss her when she was directly relevant to a topic at hand.

                      And given that she’s largely out of the public eye this year, that relevance would be pretty rare.

                      Look, if she announces a tilt for 2020, bringing up your ideas about her past would probably be relevant to many discussions about the 2020 campaign. If she makes statements about world peace, I suspect some of those criticisms would be very relevant indeed.

                      Until you’re genuinely cured of your obsession, I suggest that every time you want to talk about a Clinton, do a quick search of the thread for the name before commenting. If she’s already been mentioned, your comment might be relevant. If she has not been mentioned by anyone else, you should probably err on the side of “Hillary Clinton is not relevant to this conversation, so I will not bring it up”.

                • dukeofurl

                  Pied Piper memo covered what was eventually the last 3 candidates- what a surprise.

                  ” Clinton campaign to the DNC in April 2015 outlined the “pied-piper” strategy as elevating Donald Trump, Ben Carson, and Ted Cruz in the Republican presidential primaries.”

                  Did they do anything like …hack Trumps emails as part of PP ? Did they release ads with halos around Trump?. Did they send money to Trumps cash strapped campaign ?

                  What exactly was the outcome of someones ‘memo’. Every party wishes they have the weakest candidate opposed to them. Even in NZ it was pretty clear national were happy for Little to be leader come election day.

                  • Bill

                    There’s a big difference between “weakest” and “most abhorrent” …something the Democratic Party may or may not have tumbled to.

                    Read the memo (which, incidentally, acknowledged that most of the suggestions it contained were already being executed)

                    They wanted the extreme candidates to become the “face” of the Republican Party thinking that would make Clinton much more electable.

                    It worked a treat.

              • Nic the NZer

                Are voters in the US morally entitled to decide who to vote for?

                • McFlock

                  Sure.

                  And I’m morally entitled to say that everyone in the minority who actually voted for dolt45 was a fucking moron who left their sense of decency at the door of the polling station.

        • Macro 5.2.1.2

          FFS Morrissey! Since his election, Trump’s national security adviser, personal lawyer, campaign chairman, deputy campaign manager, and a foreign policy aide have all admitted or been convicted of crimes. Furthermore Cohen’s plea places Trump himself in legal jeopardy. And there is lots more to come. Talk about “draining the swamp”!
          But all you want to talk about is “Killary” 🙄
          Let me tell you – if the Russians hadn’t interfered in those few vulnerable states – and there is ample evidence that they did – even the Repugnants admit to that – the US would be a much more stable and sane State than it is today. There are millions who cannot wait to see the back of that vile, despicable, idiot.

          • Morrissey 5.2.1.2.1

            You’re correct, Macro, that the Trump regime is a gang of desperadoes. Like you, I want to see them all swept from power and many of them put on trial.

            However, the idea that the Russians are responsible for the destabilization of the American state is simply a fantasy. It wasn’t the Russians who told Hillary Clinton to seek the endorsement of movie stars and pop singers rather than going to visit the deplorables and simpletons in rust-belt towns.

            • left_forward 5.2.1.2.1.1

              FFS Morrissey, there is clear evidence of the Russian interference in the US elections – it is not a fantasy… and yes indeed, the Democrats clearly got parts of their campaign strategy wrong.

              • Morrissey

                I have never said there was no Russian interference. But what moral authority does the U.S. of all countries have to complain about it?

              • adam

                Come on left_forward prove that the so call interference actually did anything. Apart from hundreds of hours of b.s reporting, and proving that the bigger the lie…

                At this point you go bugger all. The POMES did more. And the Greeks did way more effective MEMES.

          • Bill 5.2.1.2.2

            If Clinton’s campaign hadn’t run the “Pied Piper” strategy that deliberately promoted Trump and a few others, then there may not have been a “vile, despicable, idiot” of Trump’s calibre in the White House today.

            • dukeofurl 5.2.1.2.2.1

              You have misrepresented the Pied Piper strategy – a mere memo anyway

              “A leaked memo sent from the Clinton campaign to the DNC in April 2015 outlined the “pied-piper” strategy as elevating Donald Trump, Ben Carson, and Ted Cruz in the Republican presidential primaries.”

              Normally you would have to do more than a memo, but actually do something more concrete- which in US context is ad buys which promote the weaker candidate .

              How many Clinton ads( or her supporters) made Trump look good ? yes they were happy for him to be the candidate – but who at the early time thought he would win. Same with Nixon was happy with his weak candidate McGovern in 1972.

              • Bill

                Your’e claiming I misrepresent the Pied Piper strategy, and yet you didn’t read the post I linked to – a post I wrote btw – where you would have found a pretty close approximation of the quote you lifted from wherever you lifted that quote from.

                To that end, they worked to push the likes of Carson, Trump and Cruz to the forefront of the Republican primary race. (The run-off, in case you’ve forgotten, was between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.)

                As outlined in that proposal (and it was a strategy, previously and successfully used at the state level), the idea doesn’t require purchasing any advertising.

                Telling “your guys” in the media to take person “x” or person “y” seriously might be all that’s required. And if asked your opinion, you can, of course, respond in a way that lends them credibility in relation to their opponents. Might even use those contacts to ensure your asked for your opinion…

                And before, or in case you’re tempted to throw a pile of “fourth estate” nonsense at me, I’ll state the obvious – every political party has networks/contacts that penetrate media organisations at various levels and that they use all of the time.

            • aj 5.2.1.2.2.2

              Bill and Morissey

              +1000

          • Craig GlenEden 5.2.1.2.3

            Well said Macro. My thoughts exactly.

        • North 5.2.1.3

          ‘And no matter what….show me a foul Republican I’ll show you a more foul Democrat!’ So say dissemblers Bill and Morrissey.

      • adam 5.2.2

        Your defence that this is important is some possible out come, at some future time.

        No offence but reality is not built on fantasy, but reality. The reality is that the senate, the house, the president and the supreme court are all working on rolling back the new deal. The reality is people are getting shafted everyday by the changes in policy/law/legal decision by all these branches of government.

        Don’t know about you but I’m no spit lickle sycophant waiting for top down decisions, but hey whatever rocks your world. We can and should put pressure on real things.Like supporting the people of Standing Rock fight court cases.

        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/22/standing-rock-jailed-activists-water-protectors

        or complain to the US government about the bombing in Yemen. – here their postal address in NZ send them a letter.

        U.S. Embassy Wellington
        P.O. Box 1190,
        Wellington,
        New Zealand

        or helping the people of Flint in their fight. There are legal battles but this outfit I like and a friend of mine says she loved their practical advise when it was all blowing up in her face.

        http://flintwaterstudy.org/

        Or we could as you councle, wait for a possible better future, with some possible positive outcome.

        • McFlock 5.2.2.1

          Really? How do you “support” and “help”? I’m sure your letter will result in a complete US foreign and domestic policy pivot.

          Whereas the investigations are actually removing people from positions of power and access.

          You really think that a fucking letter to the embassy will “realistically” change anything? Honestly?

          • dukeofurl 5.2.2.1.1

            I never cease to be amazed by the unicorn world some people live in where puppies never grow old. Wishful thinking of course.

            • adam 5.2.2.1.1.1

              whatever do you mean dukeofurl, Mcflocks – it might be better- or mine – do somthing rather than sit on your ass approach?

          • adam 5.2.2.1.2

            Really, all you got is your merry go round of power, it’s just one corprorate lick spittle after another. They can find someone as vial and idiotic as the last bloke. It won’t take long.

            Funny you can’t see any other opinion, your so fixated on supporting the merry go round till your set of killer is in power, not theirs.

            A Letter, in all probability will produce nothing – but better than sitting on you ass thinking legal eagles are going to change anything. Or hoping for some better future by a court case.

            • McFlock 5.2.2.1.2.1

              My approach: wait until there’s actually something productive to be done. Result: 1/2doz people convicted already.

              Your approach: do unproductive shite. Result: the same 1/2doz people convicted, and you waste money on postage.

              • adam

                Really your great plan on doing nothing is changing somthing.

                Yeah right.

                Glad the people I know in the States aren’t like you, and are actually challenging and changing things. They get sitting on your ass going “look a court case will solve it” has never done jack to improve their lives.

                But hey keep believing and you will get the next fool in line

                https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mike_Pence_official_portrait.jpg

                • McFlock

                  I’m not in the US. Neither are you.

                  But write your wee letter to the embassy. I suppose it’ll keep nzpost running a little longer.

    • Sabine 5.3

      Trump certainly does not care.
      I think on that we can agree.

      Btw, you forgot Puerto Rico, they still don’t have electricity.

  6. pete 6

    Trump plaintively says, “That was 12 years ago. They’re going back 12 years?”

    Yes Donald, way back when you were a mere pussy grabber.

  7. joe90 7

    heh

    How ya like me now?! # teamstormy— Stormy Daniels (@StormyDaniels) August 21, 2018

    • Morrissey 7.1

      Nobody other than the morons in charge of the U.S. media cares about Stormy Daniels, Joe. The worst fallout for Trump is that people will think he’s a sleazeball. Does anyone NOT think that already?

      What people would care about, should the Democrats and their media accomplices ever decide to focus on them, are wages, water pollution, the environment, delinquent police murdering citizens, endless military provocations all around the world, and many other things that a decent and well organized political party would address.

      • Wensleydale 7.1.1

        “…a decent and well organized political party…”

        I’ve always thought those were a myth. You know, like unicorns.

        • Morrissey 7.1.1.1

          I should have said “at least halfway decent and well organized.” Of course no party or person is perfect. But I don’t think Americans or anyone else should ever feel obliged to vote for “leaders” as depraved and disreputable as Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, or Charles Schumer. The fact that they still control the party is a depressing reminder that there is much that is rotten in the House of Representatives.

      • left_forward 7.1.2

        Its not really about Stormy Daniels is it Morrissey? The fallout for the President is that all of this continues to build the evidence that he has broken the law (probably multiple times) and he is not above the law.
        If there is going to be any solution to the other random issues that you selected to distract us with, it will require laws to regulate people’s behaviour.
        If the person who is responsible to lead the legislation of laws in our largest democracy breaks the law, then this is important and unsurprisingly – the US media cares about it.

        • Morrissey 7.1.2.1

          Which U.S. president has not broken the law, including international law?

          • left_forward 7.1.2.1.1

            I guess your question is rhetorical, but in the context of your earlier comments it suggests an attempt to normalise Trump’s increasingly obvious illegal misdemeanors.

            Even if illegal offenses can be attributed to every president before Trump, it does not mean that we shouldn’t care about the current president’s wrongdoings.

            • Morrissey 7.1.2.1.1.1

              …in the context of your earlier comments it suggests an attempt to normalise Trump’s increasingly obvious illegal misdemeanors.

              ????

              What would lead you to think I wish to normalise Trump’s misdemeanors or his more serious crimes?

        • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1.2.2

          Based on voter numbers, India is a larger democracy than the US of A.

  8. Andre 8

    There’s enough in Cohen’s plea deal to make it clear Don the Con would be facing charges right now if he weren’t shielded by being prez. So to protect himself he either needs to become prez-for-life, or he needs a pardon before he loses that shield. Will he try pardoning himself, or what’s his cover story going to be for stepping down and getting his pardon from Pence?

    • Wensleydale 8.1

      He’ll declare himself a living god and decree that any defiance of his divine will, will be punished by summary execution.

      Then he’ll wake up to discover he’s wet the bed again.

      • Morrissey 8.1.1

        As long ago as 2013, I predicted Trump would be president, and also that he would live to be at least 104 years old. Here he is delivering the eulogy at Barack Obama’s funeral in the year 2050….

        https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/who-will-be-lead-mourner-at-obamas.html

        • dukeofurl 8.1.1.1

          Its one thing for people to think you are stupid , its another to prove it beyond all doubt.

          • Morrissey 8.1.1.1.1

            What is stupid about predicting Trump would become president? I predicted it three years before the event. You didn’t. Which one of us is stupid?

            • Macro 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Wow! and he didn’t declare his candidacy until 16 June 2015 – two years after you had predicted he would become President! That is some crystal ball you have there.

              • dukeofurl

                Other predictions from 2013

                “President Justin Bieber will speak, of course, but it’s important that the keynote speech,..”

                and it wasnt a prediction Trump would win in 2016 either…

                “this world leader, and former president (2020-4), is still going strong….

                • Morrissey

                  Sorry, that was a foolish prediction on my part: Justin Bieber is Canadian, and therefore is ineligible. Similarly, Arnold Schwarzenegger’s foreign birth renders that outstanding individual ineligible.

              • Morrissey

                I actually got in ahead of The Simpsons. Does that make me a candidate for a Pulitzer or something?

          • Ad 8.1.1.1.2

            I’m going to have to write the President Hillary Clinton alternative history post shortly. 🙂

            • Morrissey 8.1.1.1.2.1

              I actually, in spite of my dislike of her, fervently hoped she would win in 2016. Maybe Chelsea could run in 2020?

  9. left_forward 9

    Trump and his supporters (including some of the commentators here) have already begun his defense strategy – portray the media as the enemy of the people, blame the Democrats, discredit the legal system, dispute the very existence of an objective truth, and create ‘alternative’ facts,

  10. David Mac 10

    I think the narrative is being driven by what clicks best and ‘The President’s Porn Star Lover’ takes some beating.

    All these New York Dandies in $5000 suits with mouthfuls of vowels outside courthouses, I have to keep reminding myself it’s not a Cosa Nostra Doco.

    But yep, like some here, I agree. The story that matters is not the floozie spin. It’s the aluminium worker in the news story that wants to stand up and give Trump a big hug because the tariffs mean he can keep his job at Alcoa while those 1000’s of manufacturers down the street that make anything out of aluminium are in an unreported suffocating death spiral. It just doesn’t click as well as “Stormy quits Big Brother”

    • Andre 10.1

      It’s certainly starting to look like those were some of the most consequential non-procreative recreational bonks in history.

  11. David Mac 11

    If I was Trump right now I’d start recording a few one on one conversations between myself and my wife. I’d select a suitably fruity yet not damning exchange and leak it to the tabloids. Get my new Cohen, not jibbering Rudy, my new Raybanned Fixer to sell it to the trash media, should be worth $250k.

    • dukeofurl 11.1

      $250k ? Thats what it costs for joining fee for ONE person at Mar a Lago Club.

      Trump wouldnt pee into one of his golden bowls for less than $250k….

      I think Obama made $10 mill plus from ONE of his books…the Clintons have made $120 mill plus from ‘their speeches’ since about 2000.

      • Sabine 11.1.1

        How much did Trump make on his golf trips to his Trump properties, with tax payer fronting the costs of security etc etc etc.

        Really how much did Trump make at the DC Hotel with people who hope to buy a favor staying there?

        How much did Trump make on renting Trump properties for RNC Fundraisers?

        I mean seriously are we really saying that its now ok to use tax payers funds to enrich oneself.

        Obama wrote his book after the presidency, Clintons made money after the presidency, And they make private money. One does not have to buy the books nor do you have to listen to the speeches as a taxpayer, one however has to pay for the costs of housing and feeding and moving your security apperatus for himself and his children and their children while they travel all over the world working for Tump Inc.

      • David Mac 11.1.2

        Hi Duke, under those circumstances I don’t think Trump would take the money, 250k or 2.5 mill, too hot. I think he’d see it was placed somewhere that he could leverage off.

    • Macro 11.2

      You mean Melania actually gets to talk to him?

  12. Ad 12

    The indicted/guilty list so far:

    Michael Cohen. Primary Trump legal counsel. Guilty. Five counts of tax evasion, 2x illegal campaign contributions, making a false statement.

    George Papadopoulos, White House Foreign Policy Advisor. Guilty. False statements.

    Rick Gates, commercial assoc. of Paul Manafort. Guilty. Conspiracy against U.S., false statements, false tax returns, non-disclosed foreign bank accounts, bank fraud conspiracy, bank fraud – all multiple counts. Further trial to come.

    Paul Manafort, Trump Campaign Chair, etc. Guilty. 8 counts of tax fraud and banking fraud. Further trial to come on 7 counts.

    Michael Flynn, White House National Security Advisor. Guilty. False statements.

    Richard Pinedo. Guilty. Sold bank accounts and false identities to the Russian hackers.

    Alex van der Zwan. Worked for Paul Manafort and Ukrainian President. Guilty. False statements.

    Dzheykhun Aslanov. 8 counts of conspiracy to defraud the United States, wire fraud, bank fraud, aggravated identity theft. (outside U.S. jurisdiction)

    Anna Bogacheva, hacker in Internet Research Agency. Conspiracy to defraud the United States. (outside US jurisdiction)

    Maria Bovda, hacker in Internet Research Agency. Conspiracy to defraud the United States. (outside US jurisdiction)

    Robert Bovda, hacker in Internet Research Agency. Conspiracy to defraud the United States. (outside US jurisdiction)

    Mikhail Burchik, hacker in Internet Research Agency. Conspiracy to defraud the United States. (outside US jurisdiction)

    Mikhail Bystrov, top official in the hacking factory. Oligarch. Conspiracy to defraud the United States. (outside US jurisdiction)

    Concord Catering, funder of Internet Research Agency. Cited by US Intelligence Community reports as primary source of electoral hacking in 2016 election. (outside US jurisdiction)

    Concord Management and Consulting LLC. Parent company of Concord Catering. Conspiracy to defraud the United States. Pleading Not Guilty.

    Internet Research Agency. Centre of hacking activity into US 2016 Presidential election. 8 counts of conspiracy to defraud the U.S., wire fraud, bank fraud, aggravated identity theft. (outside U.S. jurisdiction)

    Irina Kaverzina, Internet Research Agency employee. 7 counts: conspiracy to defraud U.S., aggravated identity theft. (outside U.S. jurisdiction)

    Aleksandra Krylova, Internet Research Agency employee. 7 counts: conspiracy to defraud the U.S, aggravated identity theft x 6. (outside U.S. jurisdiction)

    Vadim Podkopaev, Internet Research Agency employee. Conspiracy to defraud the United States. (outside the U.S. jurisdiction)

    36 people and companies so far…

    … and a lot more to come.

    Number of people convicted in Watergate: 23.

    • Ad 12.1

      Separately,

      Congressman Chris Collins (insider trading)

      Congressman Duncan Hunter (improperly using campaign funds)

      • dukeofurl 12.1.1

        Every election cycle has its share of corrupt Congressmen and sometimes Senators from both parties.
        Some States its a more of who ‘isnt’ corrupt

        • Andre 12.1.1.1

          Louisiana comes to mind where “vote for the crook, it’s important” and “vote for the lizard not the wizard” were winning slogans.

          • David Mac 12.1.1.1.1

            Ha, yeah. Boss Hogg was only just fictitious.

            But never has there been so much poo and such a pong coming from Capitol Hill.

            • eco maori 12.1.1.1.1.1

              I can see what’s going to happen when all the new Democrats win in November enough said what happened to te manner’s Ka kite ano

  13. Jenny 13

    Thinking the unthinkable

    What could happen if this matter or some other scandal is used to impeach Donald Trump?

    Would his tens of millions of supporters accept it?

    What if Trump refused to go quietly, and called on all these tens of millions of supporters to back him, by rallying, protesting, or even violently attacking his opponents, or their offices and properties?

    What if Trump doubled down and called it all a conspiracy, and fake news, and that America is under attack from the Liberals and calls for a war against them.

    (Just as some of the more extreme advisers he was recently close to, have already advised him to).

    What if in his position as supreme commander, Trump called on the police and military to stand aside, or even assist these right wing rioters and street thugs?

    And/or uses the unrest to impose a state of emergency?

    To far fetched?

    Maybe, maybe not.

    ALEX JONES AND OTHER CONSERVATIVES CALL FOR CIVIL WAR AGAINST LIBERALS
    Nina Burleigh – Newsweek, July 21, 2017

    STEVE BANNON DEMANDS RIGHT-WING ‘WAR’ AGAINST LIBERALS, CURSES OUT RADIO SHOW HOST
    Benjamin Fearnow – Newsweek, July 15, 2018

    • Jenny 13.1

      And to complete the picture, Donald Trump might even get the military parade that he has long desired.

      https://bigthink.com/news/why-president-trump-wants-military-parade-in-washington-dc

    • corodale 13.2

      Dark forecasts there Jenny, but with censorship rising,.. some folk talking of a “Ukrainian pattern”. Wander if the Dems, UN and NATO will be able to agree on a colour? It’s been a warm summer, a hot blue end to the autumn would fit the picture. Peace, peace, peace.

      • Jenny 13.2.1

        The dark tide is rising;

        Could Trump be impeached?
        Madhvi Mavadiya – Daily Mail, August 22, 2018

        Speaking to his supporters in Charleston, West Virginia, on what has been dubbed one of the most tumultuous days of his presidency, Trump failed to mention Manafort and Cohen at the event and instead drew parallels between federal investigators and the ‘fake news’….

        The millions of disgruntled and alienated American citizens, who feel their way of life is under attack and who fanatically back the president, no matter what, is the President’s real ‘trump’ card.

        Backed into a corner with no way out, would he call on them?

        Why wouldn’t he?

        (might be a better question)

        • Ad 13.2.1.1

          There will be no impeachment unless the Democrats get a working majority in the Senate through the mid-term elections coming up.

          My guess so far is the very strong US economy will keep the Senate largely Republican.

          • Jenny 13.2.1.1.1

            Good guess Ad. Echoed by Trump.

            Who has virtually called his persecutors out, as economic terrorists. Ouch

            Still… In the unlikely event that the Democrats do get control of the Senate…

            And they do are stupid enough to launch impeachment proceedings against the President….

            The scenario I outlined above, could become very real, real quick.

            Rudy Giuliani says ‘the American people would revolt’ if Donald Trump is impeached
            Chris Riotta – Independent, August 23, 2018

            Donald Trump’s lawyer says there is ‘no reason’ to impeach the president

            Rudy Giuliani has predicted that the American people would stand by Donald Trump in the event of his impeachment, after the president’s former associates officially became convicted felons this week.

            Mr Giuliani referred to Michael Cohen as “a liar” in an interview with Sky News, after the president’s former personal lawyer pleaded guilty to eight counts of fraud and campaign finance violations. The former New York City mayor, who now serves as Mr Trump’s personal legal counsel, also claimed there was “no reason” for impeachment, echoing the White House’s defence for the president.

            “You could only impeach him for political reasons,” Mr Giuliani said on Thursday. “The American people would revolt against that”.

            Fascism American style

          • Macro 13.2.1.1.2

            The current projections for the Democrats to take control of the House are around 75% chance – and there-in lies the danger for Trump because Democrats would once again control the House Financial Services Committee, with Maxine Waters the ranking Democrat on the Committee and a fierce opponent of Trump.

            As ranking member, she’s pushed for probes into the financial ties of Trump and those around him, including his relationship with Deutsche Bank and, perhaps, Russia.

            Her hands have been tied on taking action because she’s not chair, but if Democrats take the House and she is, that changes. She’ll have the ability to issue subpoenas, call hearings, and request depositions, including regarding the money trails surrounding Trump.

            “Maxine Waters is one of the leading voices of the Democratic Party, and the tone, tenor, and tenacity of the House Financial Services Committee chairmanship is going to change next year materially [if Democrats win],” Isaac Boltansky, director of policy research at research firm Compass Point, told me. “It’s been a little bit of a sleepy committee for the last few years, but that’s going to change if Rep. Waters gets the gavel.”

            Because the minority party doesn’t have subpoena power, Maxine hasn’t been able to do much beyond writing letters. But if Democrats are in the majority, that changes.

            https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/5/17527738/maxine-waters-trump-deutsche-bank
            The ensuing scandal that is sure to result, could be even too much of a rat for some Repugnant senators to swallow. The shift towards the Democrats that is almost certain to happen in around 90 days time, will also put further pressure of Repugnants to get rid of this Trump-stone around their necks. The time for standing staunch in support of “their man” will become increasingly difficult.

            • Jenny 13.2.1.1.2.1

              Trump warns of ‘violence’ if GOP loses midterms in private talk with clergy – report
              Lois Beckett – The Guardian, August 29, 2018

              In a private meeting with Christian ministers, Donald Trump warned of “violence” if Republicans do not maintain control of Congress in the midterm elections, according to an audio recording of the meeting obtained by the New York Times……

              …..If Republicans lose Congress, “they will end everything immediately”, the president said, seemingly referring to Congressional Democrats.

              He went on: “They will overturn everything that we’ve done and they’ll do it quickly and violently. And violently. There’s violence. When you look at antifa, and you look at some of these groups, these are violent people.”

              The Times reported that these additional remarks did not make clear “whom he was talking about”.A White House spokesperson did not immediately respond to a request to clarify whether the president was referring to congressional Democrats as “violent people”, or to comment on what connection the president was alleging between establishment Democratic lawmakers and young anti-fascist protesters.

              Trump’s comments appear to echo the rhetoric of political advertisements from the rightwing National Rifle Association. In a much-criticized video advertisement last year, the gun rights group used footage from street protests to paint the entire American left, and all Americans who oppose president Trump, as violent thugs who “bully and terrorize the law-abiding”. The ad’s incendiary rhetoric was sharply criticized, with one critic calling it “a whisper shy of a call for full civil war”……

              Will the New Zealand security services and armed forces still maintain close military and intelligence ties to the US if they go fascist?

              What would that mean for us if they did?

              • Macro

                Yes Jenny – we live in very dangerous times.
                As to your question here:

                Will the New Zealand security services and armed forces still maintain close military and intelligence ties to the US if they go fascist?

                I really cannot say… The sheeple simply do not know what is happening. Look at the “debate” we are having here on “free speech” and the refusal to allow those hate filled Canadians here to spread their bile.
                I’m not here so much these past few months, because much of the commentary is banal, and instead i’m looking off-shore where it is becoming very apparent that the normalisation of far-right ideology is now well entrenched in the GOP. Senators who were once outspoken in their opposition to Agent Orange, are now pretty much silent. The daily attacks on democracy, and the constant corruption that is evident for anyone with eyes to see – normalise fascism.
                I have just been watching two very different, but very courageous women being interviewed – Elizabeth Warren and Omarosa – and essentially they are saying the same thing. This is a very dangerous administration which is shifting the right even further right, and more and more racist.
                My hope is that the people in the US will find the time and the opportunity to get out and vote in the up coming mid-terms. (What country which calls itself a defender of democracy holds its elections on a work day tuesday and makes it almost impossible for some to vote?)

                • corodale

                  You folk make it sound like a democracy with a powerful leader and obedient citizens.

                  The US people don’t trust or like doing what the Govt says, (this isn’t 30’s Germany, where citizens followed the law because that was the right thing to do, US today goes in to chaotic opposite direction)

                  Plus, Trump isn’t Commander-in-Chief of the Military, that goes through the Generals in the Pentagon.

                  The Deep State Industrial-Military-Complex is the main governance in the US – has been for decades. Is that not already clear? It certainly is clear to the average Republican Trump voter.

                  Trump will not be turned into a peach – there are no alternatives, no lesser-criminals to full the White House.

                  The Pope might loose his job, but not the US Pres.

                  The nuclear question is, “How will the near-future collapse of the US bond market be handled?”

                  • Macro

                    🙄
                    You might like to read what you just wrote here in the morning .

                    • corodale

                      Interest rates in the West are zero, ready to go negative. Where does that fit in your world view? Do you think a new US Govt with Dems would deal with the debt issue? Or have I just fallen into the jewish banking propaganda hole? Whatever bro.

  14. Jenny 14

    I hope our military planners and leaders are exploring contingency scenarios for distancing themselves from the US military and intelligence complex, in the event that democratic norms are abandoned by them.

    There is nothing worse in the military strategic thinking than being caught by surprise.

    Which is why all contingencies are explored and strategies for dealing with them are thought of.

    STEEP

    Scenario planning, also called scenario thinking or scenario analysis, is a strategic planning method that some organizations use to make flexible long-term plans[1]. It is in large part an adaptation and generalization of classic methods used by military intelligence[2].

    The original method was that a group of analysts would generate simulation games for policy makers. The methods combine known facts about the future, such as demographics, geography, military, political, industrial information, and mineral reserves, with key driving forces identified by considering social, technical, economic, environmental, and political (STEEP) trends[3].

    • corodale 14.1

      Are we willing to support war in the Persian Gulf to protect our oil supply? Hope not. Iran et al are being bullied, and it is embarrassing to be on the side of the aggressor.

      That order for 4 Boeing recon should be stopped. Better the Japanese planes, cheaper, better and a more neutral. Has the finance been approved? If this NZ Govt is so “green-growth-responsable”, then where is the triple-bottom-line accounting-report on the satanic banks who provide finance to Treasury?

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