Just to clarify, I think the Nats are a terrible government.
I just think these comparisons are fucking stupid.
An alternative (devils advocate) analysis as evidenced by electoral results is the country supports Labour when we have money to spend, and National when times are tough and we need more prudent managers of the economy.
True enough. The UK would have a similar comparison if you compared the Blair/Brown Labour Government to the last five years under the stewardship of the Conservatives. The point being the general populous (or at lease the significant part that decides elections) has the view that Labour left the finances of the State in a mess and that is why the right leaning parties come in to fix it up.
Not the case in NZ.
When National took over we had had a series of black budgets under Labour.
How much of the financial crisis has been compounded by the ‘austerity’ measures.
If governments stop spending the economy grinds down.
Yet we don’t have “prudent managers”. Instead we have Nationals pork barrel politics. An ardent desire to turn this country into a banana republic. A satellite state to be sucked dry by the increasingly desperate USA.
don’t forget the earthquake saw an injection of $2-5bn into our economy from an outside source (re-insurers) which helped with stimulus in Christchurch which wouldn’t have been there without an earthquake.
Of more interest to me is the lampooning of the allegedly economically illiterate Green contenders for male co-leader for not knowing the current rate of inflation but no such lampooning for master of economic management, Bill English for
“Finance Minister Bill English says he does not know what effect the new rules on taxing capital gain on residential properties and new disclosure rules from non-resident buyers will have on the rising Auckland property market. ”
Either he is worse than the Greens (upon whom expectations of economic literacy are lower than English) or it was so ruched it has no background upon which to predict impact.
Christchurch earthquake equals 40 billion dollars of extra work paid for by insurance companies equals extraordinary item gift for G D P figures.
Nationals performance would be even worse without the Christchurch disaster!
GDP is an utterly hopeless measure of how any government is leading an economy. And are we really back to banging the drum of moar economic growth = better? What about sustainability using a steady state economy?
To be fair I think GDP is fairly rubbish too, but these things are what the Nats say are important, so if they can’t get those right…
As Robert Kennedy put it – GDP measures all but that which we hold most dear. But other measures of economic “success” are a whole lot more difficult. If you try and factor environmental and social factors in there as well it gets worse.
But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.
At the very least they should measure GDP per capita growth – simple and means you can’t fudge the figures by just adding people.
But really you want to measure the change in total capital – environmental, social as well as economic. So if you dig up all the oil & coal and sell it off, and leave the environment a mess you take into account that the country doesn’t have the oil/coal to sell again and also that the lower living standards people have from the degraded environment ie you take into account the losses, not just the profits from selling natural resources.
But yeah, the banners are merely measuring National by their own standards – and with their own simplicity.
I can see the point of hoisting the NATs up on their own petard, but really all Labour is doing is reaffirming to the electorate that Labour buys into the same orthodox economic ethos – more growth is good, more GDP is good, running surpluses are good.
I think that for most people the banner make sense.
X amount under red
x amount under blue
done.
This is how people vote. Remeber? National the fiscally responsible party that will make all our lives betterer than it was under the nanny state when Labour was at the helm?
Well National pretend the GFC did not happen all the time, every time they say Labour left the country with a decade of deficits. Do you criticise them too?
I am not blaming National for a decade of deficits due to the GFC.
I am blaming National and Bill English for pretending that they could and would achieve a surplus, that things will get betterer to win an election instead of being honest and saying it’s not gonna happen because of a. b. c.
I am blaming National for spending money on a flag change when we are out of money.
I am blaming National for spending money on troops against Isis.
I am blaming National for spending money on vanity projects while ignoring the needs of the country.
They ran on their fiscal responsibilty and their financial savy and promised a surplus, better raises etc etc. Now they get to eat crow, and frankly they should.
the have heeped scorn and abuse on so many of our most vulnerable members of society, i think it is just fair that some of us actually hold them accountable.
“”I am blaming National and Bill English for pretending that they could and would achieve a surplus, that things will get betterer to win an election instead of being honest and saying it’s not gonna happen because of a. b. c.””
I don’t think national have ever really cared if they hit surplus , but its been a terrific excuse to slash services and screw down on the poor.
Sabine. High five! I first went right off key (although even then thought he was a incompetent tosser) when they spent so much money on the gg residence. I have heard 40ml but stand to be corrected as this amount seems to be exorbitant. Wonder who got the contract?
Since then the list goes on. Money for 1% nothing for us losers.
“Since our forecasts were finalised at the end of August, there have been further developments in the global financial crisis, particularly in the US. These developments increase the downside risks to these forecasts.”
“Growth is forecast to be positive in the final quarter of 2008 thanks to the recovery from the drought and tax cuts, but will remain subdued throughout most of 2009 as negative influences continue to affect the economy. As the world economy recovers, the domestic economy picks up and inflation and monetary conditions ease, growth will return above trend later in the forecast period, driven initially by increased exports (Figure 1.1). With economic activity forecast to be lower than in the Budget Update, core Crown tax revenue is expected to be $3,148 million lower in aggregate over the next four years.”
In reading the Executive Summary and other parts of the PREFU it seems to me that global economic conditions (referred to as the ‘global financial crisis’) are repeatedly mentioned as an important contributing factor in their forecasts.
I agree that domestic “imbalances” are also mentioned as ‘unwinding’ – but the GFC is a big part of predicted reductions in growth and therefore tax revenues and increases in spending (on benefits, Kiwisaver, etc.).
You mean like Labour criticising National for the deposit guarantee scheme that Labour set up?
I bought a whole lot of shares in 2007. They plummeted disastrously under Labour, and have gone up significantly and continuously ever since National came to power.
But I’d have to be an idiotic simpleton on par with bunji to think that was solely down to who was in power.
So are you saying that bunji and the entire front bench of the National Party should be criticised for drawing ridiculous conclusions on who should be to blame for certain events?
I haven’t heard the whole front bench of National blaming Labour for the global financial crisis.
There were plenty of Labour candidates last election blaming National for running deficits while they ran surpluses – effectively ignoring that the GFC ever happened. But obviously the voting public saw the ridiculous comparisons for what they were.
If you want votes, first you have to be seen as living in the real world – not a delusional one.
Labour always get greater per capita GDP than the bought party. The bought party always has a bunch of Quislings like you lining up to shift the blame, and then you pretend to be into personal responsibility.
Que? National trots the “its all Labour’s fault every chance it gets”.
Labour does not blame National for the GFC. It criticises National for making unattainable promises to get the books black into credit, for giving tax cuts to the wealthy the country cannot afford, for selling off our profitable assets and for having no growth strategy apart from more dairy. National can be blamed for continuously running deficits for the fact that it gave unaffordable tax cuts.
Average 3.7% GDP growth over nine years of Lab5, against National’s record. This is in line with New Zealand history. Hardly surprising when you consider that unemployment is always higher under National.
Still you don’t seem to grasp the facts: under all economic conditions experienced thus far, annual per capita gdp growth is lower when the Masters of Finance occupy the Treasury benches.
This time, your excuse is the GFC, and, poppet, the GFC didn’t force the Masters of Finance to slash government revenue.
Why is it that when it comes to analysing Labour’s economic performance there was no GFC but when it comes to National’s economic performance there is nothing but GFC.
The Labour years were BEFORE the GFC so it’s pretty obvious why it’s not linked to Labours performance.
[I get tired with RWNJs saying that the decade of deficits was because of Labour decisions and not because of the GFC. For your information the GFC started in 2007 and in 2008 Clark and co were in full adaption mode. Post another idiot comment where you deny this without pristine proof and I will start to treat you as a troll – MS]
MS says “I get tired with RWNJs saying that the decade of deficits was because of Labour decisions and not because of the GFC.”
Time to get reading lessons, or some new glasses –
I said “The deficits are because of the GFC, and would have been there regardless of whether Labour or National was in power.”
And you really think the GFC had and impact on the growth and debt stats under Labour before it even happened (which is 90% of the period under discussion).
The deficit aren’t “because” of the GFC, John, the deficits are there because NZ’s economy is fragile, unbalanced, and undiversified. The deficits also continue because National is both visionless and gutless, combined with typical right wing short term opportunism.
But since you don’t understand anything about real economics, it never occurred to you that this was the case.
Because of the GFC –
– other countries buy fewer of our products, so there’s less tax on company profits
– fewer workers are required to make those products, so there’s less paye
– the (now unemployed) workers have less to spend, so there’s less gst
– less tourists come from countries suffering from the GFC, so they spend less, and the whole cycle continues in the tourism sector with less gst, less company profits, fewer workers, less paye.
– and significantly more spent on benefits
And you don’t think the deficit is caused by the GFC. Yeah right.
you’re not paying attention, John. The GFC is but one external environmental factor. Its the internal factors that successive governments have fucked up, creating a narrow economy which lacks depth and diversity. Open your eyes.
When ALL your overseas clients are suffering from the GFC and EVERY company in EVERY country slashes their spending budgets, it doesn’t matter what you produce .
as usual, wrong again. If National truly believe that, they should stop wasting our oxygen, fuck off, and let people who can make a real difference for ordinary NZers take charge.
The whole idea of government running a surplus is absurd. I would far prefer that households and SMEs run the surplus instead of the Crown – i.e. that ordinary people get to have a decent income, get to save more, get to run their businesses at a profit.
No mate – it goes to competence. Bill English promised surpluses – cannot deliver them – not just once or twice but seven times in a row. The non-delivery of surpluses by Bill has become a statistical certainty.
Labour wants to run deficits it just doest know it yet. I have been explaining this to you for weeks now and you said the issue was lying, not that deficits were a problem (which they are not). Are you revising that position?
Modern Labour tends to want to run the economy on Kensian lines. When things are good stash money away. When things are bad open up the purse strings.
The last Labour Government was happy to start spending. There was a plan to have a mini budget at the end of 2008 if they were reelected. I am not disagreeing with you.
I am disagreeing with John’s claim that the decade of deficits was because of the fifth Labour Government. And it irks that he suggests that National should be cut some slack because of the GFC but not Labour.
mickeysavage says “I am disagreeing with John’s claim that the decade of deficits was because of the fifth Labour Government. ”
I think you’re arguing against something that I never said.
The deficits are because of the GFC, and would have been there regardless of whether Labour or National was in power.
In the 2000s, New Zealand was spending 115% of what it earned, every year, year after year.
That is a totally unsustainable position and where Labour stuffed up was they didn’t do a thing about it.
Under Labour private debt skyrocketed 166% from $60b to $160b, and they didn’t do a thing to stop massive house price inflation, not just in Auckland as is the case now, but across the other 70% of houses as well.
What did Labour do to stop it? Nothing.
At least this govt has tightened up on claiming depreciation, speculators, LAQCs, low deposit loans, bigger bank reserves etc.
“The Labour years were BEFORE the GFC so it’s pretty obvious why it’s not linked to Labours performance.”
Disagreed. The GFC started during Labour’s term. The GFC had everything to do with the downturn and the “decade of deficits”.
“The deficits are because of the GFC, and would have been there regardless of whether Labour or National was in power.”
Disagreed. National’s “fiscally neutral” tax cuts basically sucked a billion dollars out of the state’s books each year. There would have been deficits for a while but they have been much worse because of National’s tax cuts.
Crown control over private debt? FFS when we suggested people should use eco friendly light bulbs there was hell to pay. Blaming us for not strong arming people into borrowing less is a bit rich.
John’s comment was dead on to begin with. There would have been similar sized deficits regardless if labour was elected. Labour needs to explain why the deficits are necessary and stop playing a game of irrelevant political football with the constant carping on about what they could get away with before the GFC.
Mickey – Labour didn’t so much as lift a finger while they watched a housing bubble caused by skyrocketing debt, and a country spending 115% of what it earned every year.
The current govt has put in place numerous measures to curtail private debt and housing bubbles.
And Labour complains it’s not enough.
Which makes your weak excuses for not doing anything look hollow and hypocritical.
theres no need for the government to “stash money away for a rainy day.”
Why would there ever be a need for the government to stash away electronic ones and zeroes that it can enter by keyboard any time that it wants to? How on earth do you “stash” digital digits, anyway?
The “real world”? Don’t make me laugh John. I agree that the NATs needed to deficit spend, but their lack of a credible long term vision for NZ has been shocking. Under their leadership NZ does all it can to stumble from year to year with no cohesive long term economic planning.
I am not defending the current government’s record by any means! What I am criticising is this clap trap language that infers deficits are inherently bad and that running surpluses are inherently good. This is implied in the language Labour has used and indeed campaigned on and in this original post.The fact that Labour ran a series of surpluses is not in itself good or bad. Classical and neo-Keynsian economic theory argues that governments should build surpluses when the economy thrives and run deficits when the economy is struggling.
IF the current regime claim there has been no serious economic crisis post GFC it should be moving towards and running surpluses. We know this isn’t true so we should expect them to run deficits and indeed we should encourage it. We might want to argue over what it is being spent on, of course, but my basic point remains.
Conversely, IF the previous Labour regime were running surpluses during economic upswings, this should be expected and encouraged. However, IF they were running surpluses during economic recession, they should be admonished.
The point is, simply comparing Labour’s surplus record juxtaposed to the Nat’s deficit record, devoid of economic context, is disingenuous at worst, and plain ignorant at best
In fact Labour weren’t too hot economically either – little realised growth in terms of capacity or productivity, few to no new jobs, little effort to address problems like housing or the balance of payments, much less winding back the employment ‘reforms’ of the black decade.
But they were basically competent, unlike the screaming heap that National is. Solid Energy is a fair analogy for National’s management of the economy – they wrecked it without even making a profit.
We still have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the western world because National have held off on implementing austerity and govt debt reduction measures.
Massaged numbers – tightening Winz policies and lies about ‘the lowest ever unemployment rate’ that anyone alive in the 1980s knows were patently false.
Clue: what’s wrong is not that people are doing well.
What’s wrong is that many people are struggling, hungry, homeless.
How much was your student loan, and how much were your training/course fees?
How much were the “voluntary” fees your parents shelled out to your school?
What about your parents – did they get any assistance, or a state house?
Or are you one of the infintesimally small few people who earn well over the average wage while having zero qualifications?
I’m wondering if the reason why 3 million Kiwis don’t earn $70k, live in central Ak etc. is that we live a world that requires mass poverty and unemployment in order for the economy to function so that people like you can be the exception to the rule.
I was suspicious of the high level of emissions attributed to NZ livestock lately.
I’ve just come across figures for 2003 – 2013 contending that, globally, fossil fuels and cement accounted for,on average, about 8.6 Gt or 92% of anthropogenic carbon emissions per year and land use accounted for about 0.8Gt or 8% per year.
Disagree with this line of thinking. There is no reason fossil fuel use must track GDP growth. The government should invest in employing people to create a sustainable economy. If it does this on a large enough scale then it’s quite possible for GDP to grow and the economy to become sustainable (with lower energy use) at the same time.
On the other hand if the government wants to cause a recession or depression then it’s going to be unpopular and they will quickly be out of office. That will be curtains for plans to move onto a sustainable path no doubt.
The economy is not going to by itself onto a sustainable path. The government must intervene and buy up outputs towards it.
As for growing an economy while aiming for sustainability…from these six eggs I have, I want to make an omelet while wanting for six chicks to hatch.
Meanwhile,most of the western world is being plunged into recession and depression, in part, due to policies pursuing austerity. Those governments haven’t been kicked out and ,in fact, have been re-elected.
Sorry, that kind of thinking doesn’t cut it. Explain why if you have some sustainability policy (say reforestation) the government can’t pay for it to happen.
The government can pay for such things. That’s not a biggie.
But if you want a growing economy, then that means more production and consumption. And that’s profit driven, not ‘lets be nice to the environment’ driven. If you find that objectionable (as I do) then you’ll have no option but to adopt a market abolitionist position.
Then, with the profit motive gone, we can look at steady state or ‘environmentally mindful’ economic models.
Closer but you are not there yet. GDP has three main components, consumption, investment and government spending. So growing GDP does not mandate growing consumption. Also not all consumption is a measure of physical consumption it also counts service spending and all kinds of sustainable consumption. There is no solid link between growth of GDP and growth of the physical demands of that economy. In considering how to deal with this issue there also needs to be a distinction between markets with and without government intervention including regulation for socially desirable outcomes.
Closer but you are not there yet. GDP has three main components, consumption, investment and government spending. So growing GDP does not mandate growing consumption. Also not all consumption is a measure of physical consumption it also counts service spending and all kinds of sustainable consumption. There is no solid link between growth of GDP and growth of the physical demands of that economy. In considering how to deal with this issue there also needs to be a distinction between markets with and without government intervention including regulation for socially desirable outcomes.
No, including energy use tracking with GDP. If you think of an alternative real economy (a sustainable one) then the payments for that can obviously be arranged in essentially any manner. Arguing that it has to be that way then is also claiming there is no real alternative economy possible. The fact Fossil fuel use tracks GDP is just a coincidence due to the world running a non-sustainable economy but that can change.
It’s also not true for many countries but industrial production being sent offshore is a large component of that, so it’s not a clear cut example.
Claims about science fictions and utopia as side, I was discussing with Bill how to grow GDP while shrinking the ecological footprint of the economy. When he says that we must first abolish markets and first instate some other (yet to be defined) system he is the person advocating for inaction.
Paid work (and profits) is a powerful incentive and should be used to take action on climate change now.
At the end of the day the only answer I can see is for a fifteen to twenty year war-time like effort to move NZ 90% off fossil fuels and also towards autarky in strategic areas. We will burn a lot of fossil fuels and consume a lot of resources in the process to do so – but at least they will be available at this time.
After this next fifteen year window passes, it’ll be too late to do anything more than localised/regional makeshift initiatives to try and make life survivable and decent.
National is 1/10 towards what is needed. Labour is 3/10 towards what is needed. The Greens are 3.5/10 towards what is needed.
Ah well, currently those are the choices we have been given.
Bunji your first post is focusing on the wrong issue, your second on the right issue. Government spending adds directly to GDP by accounting so if the deficit was lower in any of the last seven years then GDP would also have been lower by the exact same amount. Yes if labour wants to grow GDP at a decent rate in future they will need to run a significant deficit for many years.
The reality is the neo liberal policies embraced by new Labour and National have led to this mess. They are both culpable for the misery people endure.
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In past times a person was considered “unserious” or “not a serious” person if they failed to grasp, behave and speak according to the solemnity of the context in which they were located. For example a serious person does not audibly pass gas at Church, or yell “gun” at a ...
Long stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, February 13 are:The coalition Government’s early 2024 ‘fiscal emergency’ freeze on funding, planning and building houses, schools, local roads and hospitals helped extend and deepen the economic and jobs recession through calendar ...
For obvious reasons, people feel uneasy when the right to be a citizen is sold off to wealthy foreigners. Even selling the right to residency seems a bit dubious, when so many migrants who are not millionaires get turned away or are made to jump through innumerable hoops – simply ...
A new season of White Lotus is nearly upon us: more murder mystery, more sumptuous surroundings, more rich people behaving badly.Once more we get to identify with the experience of the pampered tourist or perhaps the poorly paid help; there's something in White Lotus for all New Zealanders.And unlike the ...
In 2016, Aotearoa shockingly plunged to fourth place in the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index. Nine years later, and we're back there again: New Zealand has seen a further slip in its global ranking in the latest Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI). [...] In the latest CPI New Zealand's score ...
1. You’ve started ranking your politicians on how much they respect the rule of law2. You’ve stopped paying attention to those news publications3. You’ve developed a sudden interest in a particular period of history4. More and more people are sounding like your racist, conspiracist uncle.5. Someone just pulled a Nazi ...
Transforming New Zealand: Brian EastonBrian Easton will discuss the above topic at 2/57 Willis Street, Wellington at 5:30pm on Tuesday 26 February at 2/57 Willis Street, WellingtonThe sub-title to the above is "Why is the Left failing?" Brian Easton's analysis is based on his view that while the ...
Salvation Army’s State of the Nation 2025 report highlights falling living standards, the highest unemployment rates since the 1990s and half of all Pacific children going without food. There are reports of hundreds if not thousands of people are applying for the same jobs in the wake of last year’s ...
Mountain Tui is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Correction: On the article The Condundrum of David Seymour, Luke Malpass conducted joint reviews with Bryce Wilkinson, the architect of the Regulatory Standards Bill - not Bryce Edwards. The article ...
Tomorrow the council’s Transport, Resilience and Infrastructure Committee meet and agenda has a few interesting papers. Council’s Letter of Expectation to Auckland Transport Every year the council provide a Letter of Expectation to Auckland Transport which is part of the process for informing AT of the council’s priorities and ...
All around in my home townThey're trying to track me down, yeahThey say they want to bring me in guiltyFor the killing of a deputyFor the life of a deputySongwriter: Robert Nesta Marley.Support Nick’s Kōrero today with a 20% discount on a paid subscription to receive all my newsletters directly ...
Hi,I think all of us have probably experienced the power of music — that strange, transformative thing that gets under our skin and helps us experience this whole life thing with some kind of sanity.Listening and experiencing music has always been such a huge part of my life, and has ...
Business frustration over the stalled economy is growing, and only 34% of voters are confidentNicola Willis can deliver. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, February 12 are:Business frustration is growing about a ...
I have now lived long enough to see a cabinet minister go both barrels on their Prime Minister and not get sacked.It used to be that the PM would have a drawer full of resignations signed by ministers on the day of their appointment, ready for such an occasion. But ...
This session will feature Simon McCallum, Senior Lecturer in Engineering and Computer Science (VUW) and recent Labour Party candidate in the Southland Electorate talking about some of the issues around AI and how this should inform Labour Party policy. Simon is an excellent speaker with a comprehensive command of AI ...
The proposed Waimate garbage incinerator is dead: The company behind a highly-controversial proposal to build a waste-to-energy plant in the Waimate District no longer has the land. [...] However, SIRRL director Paul Taylor said the sales and purchase agreement to purchase land from Murphy Farms, near Glenavy, lapsed at ...
The US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act has been a vital tool in combatting international corruption. It forbids US companies and citizens from bribing foreign public officials anywhere in the world. And its actually enforced: some of the world's biggest companies - Siemens, Hewlett Packard, and Bristol Myers Squibb - have ...
December 2024 photo - with UK Tory Boris Johnson (Source: Facebook)Those PollsFor hours, political poll results have resounded across political hallways and commentary.According to the 1News Verizon poll, 50% of the country believe we are heading in the “wrong direction”, while 39% believe we are “on the right track”.The left ...
A Tai Rāwhiti mill that ran for 30 years before it was shut down in late 2023 is set to re-open in the coming months, which will eventually see nearly 300 new jobs in the region. A new report from Massey University shows that pensioners are struggling with rising costs. ...
As support continues to fall, Luxon also now faces his biggest internal ructions within the coalition since the election, with David Seymour reacting badly to being criticised by the PM. File photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate ...
Not since 1988 when Richard Prebble openly criticised David Lange have we seen such a challenge to a Prime Minister as that of David Seymour to Christopher Luxon last night. Prebble suggested Lange had mental health issues during a TV interview and was almost immediately fired. Seymour hasn’t gone quite ...
Three weeks in, and the 24/7 news cycle is not helping anyone feel calm and informed about the second Trump presidency. One day, the US is threatening 25% trade tariffs on its friends and neighbours. The reasons offered by the White House are absurd, such as stopping fentanyl coming in ...
This video includes personal musings and conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Wherever you look, you'll hear headlines claiming we've passed 1.5 degrees of global warming. And while 2024 saw ...
Photo by Heather M. Edwards on UnsplashHere’s the key news, commentary, reports and debate around Aotearoa’s politics and economy in the week to Feb 10 below. That’s ahead of live chats on the Substack App and The Kākā’s front page on Substack at 5pm with: on his column in The ...
Is there anyone in the world the National Party loves more than a campaign donor? Why yes, there is! They will always have the warmest hello and would you like to slip into something more comfortable for that great god of our age, the High Net Worth Individual.The words the ...
Waste and fraud certainly exist in foreign aid programs, but rightwing celebration of USAID’s dismantling shows profound ignorance of the value of soft power (as opposed to hard power) in projecting US influence and interests abroad by non-military/coercive means (think of “hearts and minds,” “hugs, not bullets,” “honey versus vinegar,” ...
Health New Zealand is proposing to cut almost half of its data and digital positions – more than 1000 of them. The PSA has called on the Privacy Commissioner to urgently investigate the cuts due to the potential for serious consequences for patients. NZNO is calling for an urgent increase ...
We may see a few more luxury cars on Queen Street, but a loosening of rules to entice rich foreigners to invest more here is unlikely to “turbocharge our economic growth”. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate ...
Let us not dance daintily around the elephant in the room. Our politicians who serve us in the present are not honest, certainly not as honest as they should be, and while the right are taking out most of the trophies for warping narratives and literally redefining “facts”, the kiwi ...
The Government’s newly announced funding for biodiversity and tourism of $30-million over three years is a small fraction of what is required for conservation in this country. ...
The Government's sudden cancellation of the tertiary education funding increase is a reckless move that risks widespread job losses and service reductions across New Zealand's universities. ...
National’s cuts to disability support funding and freezing of new residential placements has resulted in significant mental health decline for intellectually disabled people. ...
The hundreds of jobs lost needlessly as a result of the Kinleith Mill paper production closure will have a devastating impact on the Tokoroa community - something that could have easily been avoided. ...
Today Te Pāti Māori MP for Te Tai Tokerau, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, released her members bill that will see the return of tamariki and mokopuna Māori from state care back to te iwi Māori. This bill will establish an independent authority that asserts and protects the rights promised in He Whakaputanga ...
The Whangarei District Council being forced to fluoridate their local water supply is facing a despotic Soviet-era disgrace. This is not a matter of being pro-fluoride or anti-fluoride. It is a matter of what New Zealanders see and value as democracy in our country. Individual democratically elected Councillors are not ...
Nicola Willis’ latest supermarket announcement is painfully weak with no new ideas, no real plan, and no relief for Kiwis struggling with rising grocery costs. ...
Half of Pacific children sometimes going without food is just one of many heartbreaking lowlights in the Salvation Army’s annual State of the Nation report. ...
The Salvation Army’s State of the Nation report is a bleak indictment on the failure of Government to take steps to end poverty, with those on benefits, including their children, hit hardest. ...
New Zealand First has today introduced a Member’s Bill which would restore decision-making power to local communities regarding the fluoridation of drinking water. The ‘Fluoridation (Referendum) Legislation Bill’ seeks to repeal the Health (Fluoridation of Drinking Water) Amendment Act 2021 that granted centralised authority to the Direct General of Health ...
New Zealand First has introduced a Member’s Bill aimed at preventing banks from refusing their services to businesses because of the current “Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) Framework”. “This Bill ensures fairness and prevents ESG standards from perpetuating woke ideology in the banking sector being driven by unelected, globalist, climate ...
Erica Stanford has reached peak shortsightedness if today’s announcement is anything to go by, picking apart immigration settings piece by piece to the detriment of the New Zealand economy. ...
Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. The intention was to establish a colony with the cession of sovereignty to the Crown, ...
Te Whatu Ora Chief Executive Margie Apa leaving her job four months early is another symptom of this government’s failure to deliver healthcare for New Zealanders. ...
The Green Party is calling for the Prime Minister to show leadership and be unequivocal about Aotearoa New Zealand’s opposition to a proposal by the US President to remove Palestinians from Gaza. ...
The latest unemployment figures reveal that job losses are hitting Māori and Pacific people especially hard, with Māori unemployment reaching a staggering 9.7% for the December 2024 quarter and Pasifika unemployment reaching 10.5%. ...
Waitangi 2025: Waitangi Day must be community and not politically driven - Shane Jones Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. ...
Despite being confronted every day with people in genuine need being stopped from accessing emergency housing – National still won’t commit to building more public houses. ...
The Green Party says the Government is giving up on growing the country’s public housing stock, despite overwhelming evidence that we need more affordable houses to solve the housing crisis. ...
Before any thoughts of the New Year and what lies ahead could even be contemplated, New Zealand reeled with the tragedy of Senior Sergeant Lyn Fleming losing her life. For over 38 years she had faithfully served as a front-line Police officer. Working alongside her was Senior Sergeant Adam Ramsay ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson will return to politics at Waitangi on Monday the 3rd of February where she will hold a stand up with fellow co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick. ...
Te Pāti Māori is appalled by the government's blatant mishandling of the school lunch programme. David Seymour’s ‘cost-saving’ measures have left tamariki across Aotearoa with unidentifiable meals, causing distress and outrage among parents and communities alike. “What’s the difference between providing inedible food, and providing no food at all?” Said ...
The Government is doubling down on outdated and volatile fossil fuels, showing how shortsighted and destructive their policies are for working New Zealanders. ...
Green Party MP Steve Abel this morning joined Coromandel locals in Waihi to condemn new mining plans announced by Shane Jones in the pit of the town’s Australian-owned Gold mine. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to strengthen its just-announced 2030-2035 Nationally Determined Contribution (NDC) under the Paris Agreement and address its woeful lack of commitment to climate security. ...
Today marks a historic moment for Taranaki iwi with the passing of the Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill in Parliament. "Today, we stand together as descendants of Taranaki, and our tūpuna, Taranaki Maunga, is now formally acknowledged by the law as a living tūpuna. ...
The Government’s commitment to get New Zealand’s roads back on track is delivering strong results, with around 98 per cent of potholes on state highways repaired within 24 hours of identification every month since targets were introduced, Transport Minister Chris Bishop says. “Increasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is ...
The former Cadbury factory will be the site of the Inpatient Building for the new Dunedin Hospital and Health Minister Simeon Brown says actions have been taken to get the cost overruns under control. “Today I am giving the people of Dunedin certainty that we will build the new Dunedin ...
From today, Plunket in Whāngarei will be offering childhood immunisations – the first of up to 27 sites nationwide, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. The investment of $1 million into the pilot, announced in October 2024, was made possible due to the Government’s record $16.68 billion investment in health. It ...
New Zealand’s strong commitment to the rights of disabled people has continued with the response to an important United Nations report, Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston has announced. Of the 63 concluding observations of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD), 47 will be progressed ...
Resources Minister Shane Jones has launched New Zealand’s national Minerals Strategy and Critical Minerals List, documents that lay a strategic and enduring path for the mineral sector, with the aim of doubling exports to $3 billion by 2035. Mr Jones released the documents, which present the Coalition Government’s transformative vision ...
Firstly I want to thank OceanaGold for hosting our event today. Your operation at Waihi is impressive. I want to acknowledge local MP Scott Simpson, local government dignitaries, community stakeholders and all of you who have gathered here today. It’s a privilege to welcome you to the launch of the ...
Racing Minister, Winston Peters has announced the Government is preparing public consultation on GST policy proposals which would make the New Zealand racing industry more competitive. “The racing industry makes an important economic contribution. New Zealand thoroughbreds are in demand overseas as racehorses and for breeding. The domestic thoroughbred industry ...
Business confidence remains very high and shows the economy is on track to improve, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis says. “The latest ANZ Business Outlook survey, released yesterday, shows business confidence and expected own activity are ‘still both very high’.” The survey reports business confidence fell eight points to +54 ...
Enabling works have begun this week on an expanded radiology unit at Hawke’s Bay Fallen Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital which will double CT scanning capacity in Hawke’s Bay to ensure more locals can benefit from access to timely, quality healthcare, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. This investment of $29.3m in the ...
The Government has today announced New Zealand’s second international climate target under the Paris Agreement, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand will reduce emissions by 51 to 55 per cent compared to 2005 levels, by 2035. “We have worked hard to set a target that is both ambitious ...
Nine years of negotiations between the Crown and iwi of Taranaki have concluded following Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/the Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill passing its third reading in Parliament today, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “This Bill addresses the historical grievances endured by the eight iwi ...
As schools start back for 2025, there will be a relentless focus on teaching the basics brilliantly so all Kiwi kids grow up with the knowledge, skills and competencies needed to grow the New Zealand of the future, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “A world-leading education system is a key ...
Housing Minister Chris Bishop and Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson have welcomed Kāinga Ora’s decision to re-open its tender for carpets to allow wool carpet suppliers to bid. “In 2024 Kāinga Ora issued requests for tender (RFTs) seeking bids from suppliers to carpet their properties,” Mr Bishop says. “As part ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today visited Otahuhu College where the new school lunch programme has served up healthy lunches to students in the first days of the school year. “As schools open in 2025, the programme will deliver nutritious meals to around 242,000 students, every school day. On ...
Minister for Children Karen Chhour has intervened in Oranga Tamariki’s review of social service provider contracts to ensure Barnardos can continue to deliver its 0800 What’s Up hotline. “When I found out about the potential impact to this service, I asked Oranga Tamariki for an explanation. Based on the information ...
A bill to make revenue collection on imported and exported goods fairer and more effective had its first reading in Parliament, Customs Minister Casey Costello said today. “The Customs (Levies and Other Matters) Amendment Bill modernises the way in which Customs can recover the costs of services that are needed ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Department of Internal Affairs [the Department] has achieved significant progress in completing applications for New Zealand citizenship. “December 2024 saw the Department complete 5,661 citizenship applications, the most for any month in 2024. This is a 54 per cent increase compared ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Joel Garrett, Lecturer in Exercise Science and Physiology, Griffith University Australia’s love affair with the major football codes – the Australian Football League (AFL) and National Rugby League (NRL) – is well documented. However, one aspect that stands out to many observers, ...
The White Lotus is back for season three. Here’s what we made of episode one. The third White Lotus season rinses and repeats – and thank God for that. Turns out there is enough comedic and dramatic juice in resort-set ensemble satires on privilege in the modern world, ...
Founder, journalist and author Tim Burrowes joins Duncan Greive to discuss a torrid decade in Australian media and whether there are reasons to be optimistic amid the carnage. Tim Burrowes is the author of a book and a Substack called Unmade, which are truly essential guides to media in ...
The self-appointed apostle says he could be to Christopher Luxon what Elon Musk is to Donald Trump, and his track record speaks for itself.Who is New Zealand’s answer to Elon Musk? The Herald’s tech insider, Chris Keall, put the question to his LinkedIn acolytes the other day. “If Luxon ...
The last good thing at the supermarket is gone. Mad Chapman mourns the Cadbury mini egg cartons. When life is overwhelming and it feels like every story around you is a bad news story, there are a few things that can be relied upon to instil a sense of calm, ...
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Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Justine Bell-James, Professor, TC Beirne School of Law, The University of Queensland Almost 200 nations have signed an ambitious agreement to halt and reverse biodiversity loss but none is on track to meet the crucial goal, our new research reveals. The agreement, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Philippa Collin, Professor, Institute for Culture and Society, Western Sydney University Australian school students’ civics knowledge is the lowest it has been since testing began 20 years ago, according to new national data. Results have fallen since the last assessment in 2019 ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Buckley, Senior Research Fellow, Education Research, Policy and Development Division, Australian Council for Educational Research Michael Jung/ Shutterstock There is a persistent gender gap in Australian schools. Boys, on average, outperform girls in maths. We see this in national ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Deane, Professor, Queensland University of Technology Australian beef exports to the United States are GST-free and should not be subject to any retaliatory tariff. William Edge/Shutterstock The latest round of proposed tariffs from US President Donald Trump includes a response ...
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a 36-year-old tertiary adviser and bartender shares her approach to spending and saving. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here.Gender: Female. Age: 36. Ethnicity: Pākehā. Role: Tertiary adviser, ...
The change allows for devices that do screening, similar to at drink-drive checkpoints, rather than having to test oral fluid to an evidentiary standard. ...
Almost 40% of those departing NZ long-term are aged 18 to 30. What sort of country will they leave behind, asks Catherine McGregor in today’s extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Young people leading the charge out the door Last year saw ...
New Health Minister Simeon Brown is presiding over a list of resignations from high-ranking health officials that some say is a "bloodbath". What's going on? ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Rickerby, Lecturer, School of Product Design, University of Canterbury The Poly-1. MOTAT , CC BY-NC Some 45 years ago, a team of staff and students at Wellington Polytechnic designed and built a desktop computer with an operating system customised for ...
The Forum has raised concerns regarding the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill and the Regulatory Standards Bill, which, if enacted, will radically undermine existing human rights protections, Indigenous rights, and constitutional safeguards ...
The passage of time hasn’t been kind to Ngāi Tahu.When its High Court hearing over wai māori (freshwater) commenced last week, 52 months after the claim was filed, the tribe mourned the loss of two named first plaintiffs – Bishop Richard Wallace, of Makaawhio, and Theo Bunker, of Wairewa – ...
Margie Apa, Nicholas Jones, Diana Sarfati, the board of Health New Zealand … and will Lester Levy be next?The biggest names in our health service are tumbling like dominos.It’s been called a bloodbath and a crisis.What’s going on?Every day there’s a new story about shortages, patients having to wait for ...
Opinion: The coalition Government’s recent revisions to the business investor visa, officially the Active Investor Plus but commonly known as the ‘golden visa’, has put pay-for-residency back in the headlines. While many object to the commodification of citizenship implicit in this policy, questions should be asked about its potential as ...
One Christmas, to thank him for helping me hugely with my writing (on a mentor scheme), I sent Michael King a dark blue cashmere scarf. I chose it with the awful knowledge that he was battling cancer, and I somehow thought it might keep him warm and make him feel ...
Comment: Readers may recall the commentaries from academics that appeared on these pages as well as on many media outlets, alarmed and appalled by the disbanding of the Marsden panels for humanities and the social sciences.The Marsden Fund is a “blue skies” initiative established by Simon Upton in the 1990s. ...
Everything you missed from day five of the Treaty principles bill hearings, when the Justice Committee heard seven hours of submissions. Read our recaps of the previous hearings here.An “insult to every one of our tīpuna” was the first advice the Justice Committee heard on the Treaty principles bill ...
The same councillors who decry excessive spending on pet projects just voted to pump millions of dollars into a greenhouse for flowers. On Thursday last week, Wellington City Council voted to consult on repairing Begonia House, the greenhouse for exotic flowers in Wellington Botanic Garden. The options for repairs range ...
It’s important to respect people’s right to free speech and peaceful assembly, but how much political deference is due when it isn’t peaceful? Commenting on Destiny Church members storming a children’s event at the Te Atatū library and community centre on Saturday, prime minister Christopher Luxon said it’s important to ...
Comment: US is capitulating to Moscow’s demands before negotiations over Ukraine even begin The post The day the West died appeared first on Newsroom. ...
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Asia Pacific Report Two Palestinian resistance groups have condemned “the brutal assault” on prisoners at Ofer Prison, saying it was “barbaric criminal behaviour that reflects the fascist and terrorist nature of” Israel. In the joint statement, Hamas and Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) called the attack a “miserable attempt” by Israel ...
By Caleb Fotheringham, RNZ Pacific journalist in Avarua, Rarotonga Cook Islands Prime Minister Mark Brown hopes to have “an opportunity to talk” with the New Zealand government to “heal some of the rift”. Brown returned to Avarua on Sunday afternoon (Cook Islands Time) following his week-long state visit to China, ...
Booming world economy v GFC & Christchurch Earthquake….
Just to clarify, I think the Nats are a terrible government.
I just think these comparisons are fucking stupid.
An alternative (devils advocate) analysis as evidenced by electoral results is the country supports Labour when we have money to spend, and National when times are tough and we need more prudent managers of the economy.
True enough. The UK would have a similar comparison if you compared the Blair/Brown Labour Government to the last five years under the stewardship of the Conservatives. The point being the general populous (or at lease the significant part that decides elections) has the view that Labour left the finances of the State in a mess and that is why the right leaning parties come in to fix it up.
Not the case in NZ.
When National took over we had had a series of black budgets under Labour.
How much of the financial crisis has been compounded by the ‘austerity’ measures.
If governments stop spending the economy grinds down.
Yet we don’t have “prudent managers”. Instead we have Nationals pork barrel politics. An ardent desire to turn this country into a banana republic. A satellite state to be sucked dry by the increasingly desperate USA.
don’t forget the earthquake saw an injection of $2-5bn into our economy from an outside source (re-insurers) which helped with stimulus in Christchurch which wouldn’t have been there without an earthquake.
Of more interest to me is the lampooning of the allegedly economically illiterate Green contenders for male co-leader for not knowing the current rate of inflation but no such lampooning for master of economic management, Bill English for
“Finance Minister Bill English says he does not know what effect the new rules on taxing capital gain on residential properties and new disclosure rules from non-resident buyers will have on the rising Auckland property market. ”
Either he is worse than the Greens (upon whom expectations of economic literacy are lower than English) or it was so ruched it has no background upon which to predict impact.
You seem to be forgetting the global recession that was in the middle of the last 7 years.
In NZ, Labour governments have always achieved greater per capita GDP than their National contemporaries.
You always have an excuse. It’s lame. Where’s the personal responsibility?
So you’re saying US$42,000 GDP per capita (NZ in 2013) is LESS than US$31,000 GDP per capita (in 2007).
Cherry picking years and currencies? Are your physical characteristics as reminiscent of dogshit as your arguments?
Christchurch earthquake equals 40 billion dollars of extra work paid for by insurance companies equals extraordinary item gift for G D P figures.
Nationals performance would be even worse without the Christchurch disaster!
GDP is an utterly hopeless measure of how any government is leading an economy. And are we really back to banging the drum of moar economic growth = better? What about sustainability using a steady state economy?
To be fair I think GDP is fairly rubbish too, but these things are what the Nats say are important, so if they can’t get those right…
As Robert Kennedy put it – GDP measures all but that which we hold most dear. But other measures of economic “success” are a whole lot more difficult. If you try and factor environmental and social factors in there as well it gets worse.
But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.
At the very least they should measure GDP per capita growth – simple and means you can’t fudge the figures by just adding people.
But really you want to measure the change in total capital – environmental, social as well as economic. So if you dig up all the oil & coal and sell it off, and leave the environment a mess you take into account that the country doesn’t have the oil/coal to sell again and also that the lower living standards people have from the degraded environment ie you take into account the losses, not just the profits from selling natural resources.
But yeah, the banners are merely measuring National by their own standards – and with their own simplicity.
‘their own simplicity’….heh
Exactly Bunji. They fail according to their own criteria.
I can see the point of hoisting the NATs up on their own petard, but really all Labour is doing is reaffirming to the electorate that Labour buys into the same orthodox economic ethos – more growth is good, more GDP is good, running surpluses are good.
I think that for most people the banner make sense.
X amount under red
x amount under blue
done.
This is how people vote. Remeber? National the fiscally responsible party that will make all our lives betterer than it was under the nanny state when Labour was at the helm?
That is what people voted for.
This deserves an award for brainless idiocy.
Because only a brainless idiot would would make a comparison of the years before and after the global financial crisis, and pretend it didn’t happen.,
Well National pretend the GFC did not happen all the time, every time they say Labour left the country with a decade of deficits. Do you criticise them too?
Well they do it too.
Great comeback MS
And just to be clear the decade of deficits was projected pre GFC
Um are you sure about this? Link please. My recollection is that the “decade of deficits” was announced in 2008 after the start of the GFC.
Not pre “start” of GFC, pre “full effects” of GFC.
I could have been clearer.
My point is the PREFU did not lay the blame for the decade of deficits on the GFC so why would you expect the Nats to when there is an easier target.
(Jeepers, I can’t believe I am in here defending Bill English)
then don’t.
I am not blaming National for a decade of deficits due to the GFC.
I am blaming National and Bill English for pretending that they could and would achieve a surplus, that things will get betterer to win an election instead of being honest and saying it’s not gonna happen because of a. b. c.
I am blaming National for spending money on a flag change when we are out of money.
I am blaming National for spending money on troops against Isis.
I am blaming National for spending money on vanity projects while ignoring the needs of the country.
They ran on their fiscal responsibilty and their financial savy and promised a surplus, better raises etc etc. Now they get to eat crow, and frankly they should.
the have heeped scorn and abuse on so many of our most vulnerable members of society, i think it is just fair that some of us actually hold them accountable.
“”I am blaming National and Bill English for pretending that they could and would achieve a surplus, that things will get betterer to win an election instead of being honest and saying it’s not gonna happen because of a. b. c.””
I don’t think national have ever really cared if they hit surplus , but its been a terrific excuse to slash services and screw down on the poor.
Sabine. High five! I first went right off key (although even then thought he was a incompetent tosser) when they spent so much money on the gg residence. I have heard 40ml but stand to be corrected as this amount seems to be exorbitant. Wonder who got the contract?
Since then the list goes on. Money for 1% nothing for us losers.
“the PREFU did not lay the blame for the decade of deficits on the GFC”
Are you sure?
In the PREFU section on ‘Weaker Growth as Global Economy Adjusts to imbalances’ there is this comment:
“Since our forecasts were finalised at the end of August, there have been further developments in the global financial crisis, particularly in the US. These developments increase the downside risks to these forecasts.”
And in this section it is stated that:
“Growth is forecast to be positive in the final quarter of 2008 thanks to the recovery from the drought and tax cuts, but will remain subdued throughout most of 2009 as negative influences continue to affect the economy. As the world economy recovers, the domestic economy picks up and inflation and monetary conditions ease, growth will return above trend later in the forecast period, driven initially by increased exports (Figure 1.1). With economic activity forecast to be lower than in the Budget Update, core Crown tax revenue is expected to be $3,148 million lower in aggregate over the next four years.”
In reading the Executive Summary and other parts of the PREFU it seems to me that global economic conditions (referred to as the ‘global financial crisis’) are repeatedly mentioned as an important contributing factor in their forecasts.
I agree that domestic “imbalances” are also mentioned as ‘unwinding’ – but the GFC is a big part of predicted reductions in growth and therefore tax revenues and increases in spending (on benefits, Kiwisaver, etc.).
The structural decade of deficits lie is one of Gosman’s most pathetic fictions.
V: I’ve not come for what you hoped to do. I’ve come for what you did.
Labour did not deliver deficits. Bill English did.
You mean like Labour criticising National for the deposit guarantee scheme that Labour set up?
I bought a whole lot of shares in 2007. They plummeted disastrously under Labour, and have gone up significantly and continuously ever since National came to power.
But I’d have to be an idiotic simpleton on par with bunji to think that was solely down to who was in power.
So are you saying that bunji and the entire front bench of the National Party should be criticised for drawing ridiculous conclusions on who should be to blame for certain events?
I haven’t heard the whole front bench of National blaming Labour for the global financial crisis.
There were plenty of Labour candidates last election blaming National for running deficits while they ran surpluses – effectively ignoring that the GFC ever happened. But obviously the voting public saw the ridiculous comparisons for what they were.
If you want votes, first you have to be seen as living in the real world – not a delusional one.
Labour always get greater per capita GDP than the bought party. The bought party always has a bunch of Quislings like you lining up to shift the blame, and then you pretend to be into personal responsibility.
If you ask me, you’re lying trash.
Que? National trots the “its all Labour’s fault every chance it gets”.
Labour does not blame National for the GFC. It criticises National for making unattainable promises to get the books black into credit, for giving tax cuts to the wealthy the country cannot afford, for selling off our profitable assets and for having no growth strategy apart from more dairy. National can be blamed for continuously running deficits for the fact that it gave unaffordable tax cuts.
It’s funny when people backing Labour, (who want to run BIGGER deficits for LONGER), criticise National for running deficits.
It comes across as absurd.
It’s even funnier when lackwit tr*lls (just like you) pretend that their delusions have some connection to what the Left would have done.
What’s the matter Johnny? Couldn’t you manage a reality-based argument? Your personal responsibility is a bunch of impotent lies, eh.
That’s about as idiotic as your claim GDP per capita was higher under Labour – see
http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:NZL:AUS:CAN&hl=en&dl=en
Imagine I am speaking to you in a patient tone, as though you are a child.
Your graph, poppet, demonstrates that, in $US, the rate of per-capita GDP increase has slowed under National.
Obviously another person ignorant that there’s been a global financial crisis.
And now backtracking on the patently false claim that GDP per capita was higher under Labour.
Keep peddling – you’re going backwards fast
Average 3.7% GDP growth over nine years of Lab5, against National’s record. This is in line with New Zealand history. Hardly surprising when you consider that unemployment is always higher under National.
As I said – now you’re backtracking.
Previously you claimed GDP per capita was bigger under Labour.
Now it’s growth rates.
And you still show extreme ignorance by failing to acknowledge there’s been a global financial crisis.
Still you don’t seem to grasp the facts: under all economic conditions experienced thus far, annual per capita gdp growth is lower when the Masters of Finance occupy the Treasury benches.
This time, your excuse is the GFC, and, poppet, the GFC didn’t force the Masters of Finance to slash government revenue.
Why is it that when it comes to analysing Labour’s economic performance there was no GFC but when it comes to National’s economic performance there is nothing but GFC.
Really?????
The Labour years were BEFORE the GFC so it’s pretty obvious why it’s not linked to Labours performance.
[I get tired with RWNJs saying that the decade of deficits was because of Labour decisions and not because of the GFC. For your information the GFC started in 2007 and in 2008 Clark and co were in full adaption mode. Post another idiot comment where you deny this without pristine proof and I will start to treat you as a troll – MS]
MS says “I get tired with RWNJs saying that the decade of deficits was because of Labour decisions and not because of the GFC.”
Time to get reading lessons, or some new glasses –
I said “The deficits are because of the GFC, and would have been there regardless of whether Labour or National was in power.”
And you really think the GFC had and impact on the growth and debt stats under Labour before it even happened (which is 90% of the period under discussion).
The deficit aren’t “because” of the GFC, John, the deficits are there because NZ’s economy is fragile, unbalanced, and undiversified. The deficits also continue because National is both visionless and gutless, combined with typical right wing short term opportunism.
But since you don’t understand anything about real economics, it never occurred to you that this was the case.
Because of the GFC –
– other countries buy fewer of our products, so there’s less tax on company profits
– fewer workers are required to make those products, so there’s less paye
– the (now unemployed) workers have less to spend, so there’s less gst
– less tourists come from countries suffering from the GFC, so they spend less, and the whole cycle continues in the tourism sector with less gst, less company profits, fewer workers, less paye.
– and significantly more spent on benefits
And you don’t think the deficit is caused by the GFC. Yeah right.
you’re not paying attention, John. The GFC is but one external environmental factor. Its the internal factors that successive governments have fucked up, creating a narrow economy which lacks depth and diversity. Open your eyes.
You’re missing the point.
When ALL your overseas clients are suffering from the GFC and EVERY company in EVERY country slashes their spending budgets, it doesn’t matter what you produce .
as usual, wrong again. If National truly believe that, they should stop wasting our oxygen, fuck off, and let people who can make a real difference for ordinary NZers take charge.
The whole idea of government running a surplus is absurd. I would far prefer that households and SMEs run the surplus instead of the Crown – i.e. that ordinary people get to have a decent income, get to save more, get to run their businesses at a profit.
No mate – it goes to competence. Bill English promised surpluses – cannot deliver them – not just once or twice but seven times in a row. The non-delivery of surpluses by Bill has become a statistical certainty.
It’s funny when people backing Labour, (who want to run BIGGER deficits for LONGER), criticise National for running deficits.
Idiot. What evidence do you have that Labour wants to run deficits? FFS last time we failed miserably according to your idiot analysis.
Ideally the state pays its way and puts some money aside for a rainy day. Labour achieved this. Shame the nats can’t.
Labour wants to run deficits it just doest know it yet. I have been explaining this to you for weeks now and you said the issue was lying, not that deficits were a problem (which they are not). Are you revising that position?
Modern Labour tends to want to run the economy on Kensian lines. When things are good stash money away. When things are bad open up the purse strings.
The last Labour Government was happy to start spending. There was a plan to have a mini budget at the end of 2008 if they were reelected. I am not disagreeing with you.
I am disagreeing with John’s claim that the decade of deficits was because of the fifth Labour Government. And it irks that he suggests that National should be cut some slack because of the GFC but not Labour.
mickeysavage says “I am disagreeing with John’s claim that the decade of deficits was because of the fifth Labour Government. ”
I think you’re arguing against something that I never said.
The deficits are because of the GFC, and would have been there regardless of whether Labour or National was in power.
In the 2000s, New Zealand was spending 115% of what it earned, every year, year after year.
That is a totally unsustainable position and where Labour stuffed up was they didn’t do a thing about it.
Under Labour private debt skyrocketed 166% from $60b to $160b, and they didn’t do a thing to stop massive house price inflation, not just in Auckland as is the case now, but across the other 70% of houses as well.
What did Labour do to stop it? Nothing.
At least this govt has tightened up on claiming depreciation, speculators, LAQCs, low deposit loans, bigger bank reserves etc.
John
“The Labour years were BEFORE the GFC so it’s pretty obvious why it’s not linked to Labours performance.”
Disagreed. The GFC started during Labour’s term. The GFC had everything to do with the downturn and the “decade of deficits”.
“The deficits are because of the GFC, and would have been there regardless of whether Labour or National was in power.”
Disagreed. National’s “fiscally neutral” tax cuts basically sucked a billion dollars out of the state’s books each year. There would have been deficits for a while but they have been much worse because of National’s tax cuts.
Crown control over private debt? FFS when we suggested people should use eco friendly light bulbs there was hell to pay. Blaming us for not strong arming people into borrowing less is a bit rich.
John’s comment was dead on to begin with. There would have been similar sized deficits regardless if labour was elected. Labour needs to explain why the deficits are necessary and stop playing a game of irrelevant political football with the constant carping on about what they could get away with before the GFC.
Mickey – Labour didn’t so much as lift a finger while they watched a housing bubble caused by skyrocketing debt, and a country spending 115% of what it earned every year.
The current govt has put in place numerous measures to curtail private debt and housing bubbles.
And Labour complains it’s not enough.
Which makes your weak excuses for not doing anything look hollow and hypocritical.
theres no need for the government to “stash money away for a rainy day.”
Why would there ever be a need for the government to stash away electronic ones and zeroes that it can enter by keyboard any time that it wants to? How on earth do you “stash” digital digits, anyway?
Meanwhile back in the real world, a $1b tax cut for six years doesn’t add up to a $66b debt.
The “real world”? Don’t make me laugh John. I agree that the NATs needed to deficit spend, but their lack of a credible long term vision for NZ has been shocking. Under their leadership NZ does all it can to stumble from year to year with no cohesive long term economic planning.
I am not defending the current government’s record by any means! What I am criticising is this clap trap language that infers deficits are inherently bad and that running surpluses are inherently good. This is implied in the language Labour has used and indeed campaigned on and in this original post.The fact that Labour ran a series of surpluses is not in itself good or bad. Classical and neo-Keynsian economic theory argues that governments should build surpluses when the economy thrives and run deficits when the economy is struggling.
IF the current regime claim there has been no serious economic crisis post GFC it should be moving towards and running surpluses. We know this isn’t true so we should expect them to run deficits and indeed we should encourage it. We might want to argue over what it is being spent on, of course, but my basic point remains.
Conversely, IF the previous Labour regime were running surpluses during economic upswings, this should be expected and encouraged. However, IF they were running surpluses during economic recession, they should be admonished.
The point is, simply comparing Labour’s surplus record juxtaposed to the Nat’s deficit record, devoid of economic context, is disingenuous at worst, and plain ignorant at best
In fact Labour weren’t too hot economically either – little realised growth in terms of capacity or productivity, few to no new jobs, little effort to address problems like housing or the balance of payments, much less winding back the employment ‘reforms’ of the black decade.
But they were basically competent, unlike the screaming heap that National is. Solid Energy is a fair analogy for National’s management of the economy – they wrecked it without even making a profit.
“Few to no new jobs”
They had the lowest unemployment rate in the western world.
And still do have one of the lowest.
We still have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the western world because National have held off on implementing austerity and govt debt reduction measures.
Massaged numbers – tightening Winz policies and lies about ‘the lowest ever unemployment rate’ that anyone alive in the 1980s knows were patently false.
ummm i think you all need to read the correct data. i am very very very happy in nz.
i earn 70k a year – debt free and own a house in central auckland. 2 kids 50 years old and not one hand out or any inheritance.
tell me what is wrong?
Clue: what’s wrong is not that people are doing well.
What’s wrong is that many people are struggling, hungry, homeless.
How much was your student loan, and how much were your training/course fees?
How much were the “voluntary” fees your parents shelled out to your school?
What about your parents – did they get any assistance, or a state house?
Or are you one of the infintesimally small few people who earn well over the average wage while having zero qualifications?
And how are your kids going to buy a house?
Gosh. And you’re so typical, too 😉
I’m wondering if the reason why 3 million Kiwis don’t earn $70k, live in central Ak etc. is that we live a world that requires mass poverty and unemployment in order for the economy to function so that people like you can be the exception to the rule.
Yep, it’s rare for the people who benefit from the poverty that they create to see the cause.
What’s wrong is that you believe a lie. You and you’re parents got lots of help from the government. You just don’t want to see it.
You are a kick-the-ladder-out kind of person. There are too many of you and that’s what’s wrong.
moved to auckland 12 years ago. One of 7 kids from a labour voting family. All info is correct. Just saved
So given that fossil fuel use tracks economic activity, at 1.3% growth, National were about 2/3rds less bad for our future than Labour.
THIS
When did Colonial Viper become a raving right winger?
I must have missed this because I thought he was socially responsible, like the rest of us.
are you accusing Bill as well? After all it was his idea i was backing 😈
You forgot the sheep and extra cows Bill 🙂
I was suspicious of the high level of emissions attributed to NZ livestock lately.
I’ve just come across figures for 2003 – 2013 contending that, globally, fossil fuels and cement accounted for,on average, about 8.6 Gt or 92% of anthropogenic carbon emissions per year and land use accounted for about 0.8Gt or 8% per year.
http://tyndall.ac.uk/sites/default/files/gca_tyndall_cicerosideevent_5combined.pdf
Historically – ie, the cumulative totals for CO2 see land use account for about 20 – 25% of the existing total.
And this link, also pasted on ‘Daily Review’ is a must. http://www.globalcarbonatlas.org/?q=en/content/welcome-carbon-atlas
Disagree with this line of thinking. There is no reason fossil fuel use must track GDP growth. The government should invest in employing people to create a sustainable economy. If it does this on a large enough scale then it’s quite possible for GDP to grow and the economy to become sustainable (with lower energy use) at the same time.
On the other hand if the government wants to cause a recession or depression then it’s going to be unpopular and they will quickly be out of office. That will be curtains for plans to move onto a sustainable path no doubt.
The economy is not going to by itself onto a sustainable path. The government must intervene and buy up outputs towards it.
Well, there’s no reason why it must, but it does.
As for growing an economy while aiming for sustainability…from these six eggs I have, I want to make an omelet while wanting for six chicks to hatch.
Meanwhile,most of the western world is being plunged into recession and depression, in part, due to policies pursuing austerity. Those governments haven’t been kicked out and ,in fact, have been re-elected.
Sorry, that kind of thinking doesn’t cut it. Explain why if you have some sustainability policy (say reforestation) the government can’t pay for it to happen.
The government can pay for such things. That’s not a biggie.
But if you want a growing economy, then that means more production and consumption. And that’s profit driven, not ‘lets be nice to the environment’ driven. If you find that objectionable (as I do) then you’ll have no option but to adopt a market abolitionist position.
Then, with the profit motive gone, we can look at steady state or ‘environmentally mindful’ economic models.
Closer but you are not there yet. GDP has three main components, consumption, investment and government spending. So growing GDP does not mandate growing consumption. Also not all consumption is a measure of physical consumption it also counts service spending and all kinds of sustainable consumption. There is no solid link between growth of GDP and growth of the physical demands of that economy. In considering how to deal with this issue there also needs to be a distinction between markets with and without government intervention including regulation for socially desirable outcomes.
Closer but you are not there yet. GDP has three main components, consumption, investment and government spending. So growing GDP does not mandate growing consumption. Also not all consumption is a measure of physical consumption it also counts service spending and all kinds of sustainable consumption. There is no solid link between growth of GDP and growth of the physical demands of that economy. In considering how to deal with this issue there also needs to be a distinction between markets with and without government intervention including regulation for socially desirable outcomes.
“There is no solid link between growth of GDP and growth of the physical demands of that economy.”
other than energy use tracking closely with GDP you mean? And in the rest of the world that typically means coal and oil being burnt.
No, including energy use tracking with GDP. If you think of an alternative real economy (a sustainable one) then the payments for that can obviously be arranged in essentially any manner. Arguing that it has to be that way then is also claiming there is no real alternative economy possible. The fact Fossil fuel use tracks GDP is just a coincidence due to the world running a non-sustainable economy but that can change.
It’s also not true for many countries but industrial production being sent offshore is a large component of that, so it’s not a clear cut example.
“The fact Fossil fuel use tracks GDP is just a coincidence due to the world running a non-sustainable economy but that can change.”
???
I’m referring to the current physical world economy and the energy inputs its activity is entirely predicated on, not a future science fiction one.
Claims about science fictions and utopia as side, I was discussing with Bill how to grow GDP while shrinking the ecological footprint of the economy. When he says that we must first abolish markets and first instate some other (yet to be defined) system he is the person advocating for inaction.
Paid work (and profits) is a powerful incentive and should be used to take action on climate change now.
At the end of the day the only answer I can see is for a fifteen to twenty year war-time like effort to move NZ 90% off fossil fuels and also towards autarky in strategic areas. We will burn a lot of fossil fuels and consume a lot of resources in the process to do so – but at least they will be available at this time.
After this next fifteen year window passes, it’ll be too late to do anything more than localised/regional makeshift initiatives to try and make life survivable and decent.
National is 1/10 towards what is needed. Labour is 3/10 towards what is needed. The Greens are 3.5/10 towards what is needed.
Ah well, currently those are the choices we have been given.
Bunji your first post is focusing on the wrong issue, your second on the right issue. Government spending adds directly to GDP by accounting so if the deficit was lower in any of the last seven years then GDP would also have been lower by the exact same amount. Yes if labour wants to grow GDP at a decent rate in future they will need to run a significant deficit for many years.
exactly, thank grod someone else gets it too
Great work today OAB. Another one to line up.
The reality is the neo liberal policies embraced by new Labour and National have led to this mess. They are both culpable for the misery people endure.