Metiria Turei will not seek ministerial position

Written By: - Date published: 12:14 pm, August 4th, 2017 - 177 comments
Categories: Metiria Turei, welfare - Tags: , , ,

At a noon press conference Metiria Turei announced that she is not resigning and will continue to lead the Greens, but she is not seeking a ministerial position in a new government.

She takes responsibility for her past, but the work on a fair welfare system is more important than any one person.

Wants to be clear for Labour under the MOU.

See also:
National MP’s home away from home
Bill English buckles over housing allowance
Double-dipping ministers to face scrutiny

177 comments on “Metiria Turei will not seek ministerial position ”

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  1. red-blooded 1
    4 August 2017 at 12:20 pm

    Well, I’m sorry to think that a woman of Metiria’s caliber isn’t going be to available for a Ministerial post if the left do actually manage to win through. This latest story about giving a false address in an election in the early 90’s seems to me to be a storm in a teacup, and the issue of her dealings with WINZ in the past is offending people who didn’t seem all that steamed up about Bill English (who didn’t need the money – just wanted it) claiming false living expenses while an MP.

    I understand why she’s made this announcement, but I do think it’s a great pity.

    • DoublePlusGood 1.1
      4 August 2017 at 1:28 pm

      Nah, just win the election first, wait a year, and then make Metiria a minister.

      • alwyn 1.1.1
        4 August 2017 at 2:57 pm

        “wait a year”.
        Why on earth do that? All MT would have to do would be to inform the Labour Party that the price of Green support on confidence and supply is that they ASK her to become a Minister.
        Then she could proclaim that she would, as a matter of duty accept the call.

        Why do I hear the raspy echoes of Winston Peters in 2005 echoing about? Remember how he said that he was not looking for the “baubles of office”?
        Then straight after the election he jumped in with both feet.
        MT is doing exactly the same thing, or at least she is trying to.
        However in the unlikely event that Labour could lead a Government it would require both Green and New Zealand First support and Winston, although he would probably admire Turei’s gall, would also probably enjoy posing as the high-principled party leader who kept her hands out of the till.

        • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1
          4 August 2017 at 4:32 pm

          “Why do I hear the raspy echoes of Winston Peters in 2005 echoing about?”
          ‘Cause that’s the sort of cynical dialogue that echoes around your head all of the time?
          Just surmising…

  2. Muttonbird 2
    4 August 2017 at 12:22 pm

    Very brave of Turei. Must have been difficult but necessary to show contrition.

    Good result for Ardern. Shows she’s got muscle in addition to charisma. How about them leadership skillz now, Hosking? What about Farrar, think she’s got enough experience after this very Key-like performance?

    Go the MOU!

    Change the government!

    • Carolyn_nth 2.1
      4 August 2017 at 1:32 pm

      Huh?! What does it have to do with Ardern?

      • Muttonbird 2.1.1
        4 August 2017 at 1:39 pm

        Clearly it was conveyed to the Greens that Turei couldn’t be in a Labour/Green cabinet. Turei did the right thing by announcing it herself.

        FWIW, I don’t think Ardern in her presser needed to mention that she’d approached them about it first but there you go.

        Also, I don’t think benefit fraud should exclude Turei from cabinet but I do think the admission was a mistake and the fallout was really beginning to damage the Greens, Labour, and their effort to change the government.

        She had to stand aside in the way she has done.

        • Carolyn_nth 2.1.1.1
          4 August 2017 at 2:25 pm

          So you’re making it up with no evidence.

          • marty mars 2.1.1.1.1
            4 August 2017 at 2:38 pm

            “Ardern says she would have ruled out Turei as a Minister if Turei hadn’t herself”

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95447918/live-things-are-heating-up-less-than-two-months-out-from-election

            • weka 2.1.1.1.1.1
              4 August 2017 at 2:44 pm

              “New Labour leader Jacinda Ardern says she would not have been comfortable with Turei being a minister in her cabinet – and that view was conveyed to the Green Party this morning.

              She says that she did not force Turei’s hand however.”

              That’s what Turei said too, that the relationship and situation had been discussed but Labour hadn’t told them what to do.

              • Carolyn_nth …
                4 August 2017 at 2:45 pm

                Thanks, marty and weka.

              • Korero Pono …
                4 August 2017 at 11:52 pm

                Well that cements how great Labour’s going to be if they make it to the next government…weak and more interested in self preservation than supporting the under dog. Maybe I have this wrong having missed a whole day of political news but if Ardern did what I think she did then it just reinforces my support of Greens and disgust in Labour.

                • weka …
                  4 August 2017 at 11:57 pm

                  I haven’t found the audio yet, but the snippets I’ve seen come across as contradictory. Some of it seems ok, some of it not. I’d like to hear JA’s actual words directly before I make a decision. My expectations aren’t terribly high, but not bottomed out either.

        • billmurray 2.1.1.2
          4 August 2017 at 3:22 pm

          Muttonbird, 1.39pm,
          I see the situation differently from you, The Labour party have ‘bigtime’ crapped over the Greens to-day and about time to.
          Metiria was absolutely downgraded by Ardern and Davis, she has become a nobody in future coalition discussions.
          I predict in time but probably before the election she will be replaced, in all probability by Julie Anne Genter.
          IMOLabour will win out of today, the Greens will lose.

          • Muttonbird 2.1.1.2.1
            4 August 2017 at 5:32 pm

            They didn’t ‘crap over the Greens’. They, and the Greens did what was necessary for the good of the cause. Metiria Turei had lost control of the narrative and her situation was damaging the opposition and their ability to change the government.

            Labour recognised that, the Greens recognised that and this was the solution.

            I’d like to have seen Ardern not bring up that she wouldn’t have wanted Turei in a Labour/Green cabinet because doing so has allowed the right wing media to highlight that as a point of division (which they have done). Better to have talked about it away from the media as they apparently did, then let Turei make her statement. If asked Ardern would have been better, imo, to have treated it as a decision reached together which still would have meant Ardern was strong and a leader.

          • Ed 2.1.1.2.2
            4 August 2017 at 9:09 pm

            The poor of New Zealand will lose as well.
            As if you care though…..

  3. Anne 3
    4 August 2017 at 12:24 pm

    Huge ups to Metiria. She is putting the country before personal ambition. How many politicians have done that? A handful maybe in the past century.

    Yes, a great pity but it doesn’t have to be forever.

    • billmurray 3.1
      4 August 2017 at 3:27 pm

      Anne 12.24pm,
      IMO it will be forever, she is finished and will be replaced as co-leader in quick time.

      • solkta 3.1.1
        4 August 2017 at 5:52 pm

        So you not a Green Party member then? In the Greens it is the members who vote for the Co-leaders each year at Conference. I haven’t heard complaints from the membership.

    • Venezia 3.2
      4 August 2017 at 9:06 pm

      Anne …….+ 1

    • JC 3.3
      4 August 2017 at 10:13 pm

      kiaora Anne

    • mosa 3.4
      4 August 2017 at 10:30 pm

      You hit the nail on the head Anne.

    • Korero Pono 3.5
      5 August 2017 at 12:01 am

      And big shame on Labour and their ‘perfect’ new leader for expecting her to do so and thereby supporting the negative narrative. This is a real blow to every struggling beneficiary, to every struggling low income worker, what do they have to look forward to now? Either National or Labour will just screw them over, just like they’ve been doing for over 30 years. I’d really hoped that Ardern was different and Labour would come up with some progressive policy, not holding my breath waiting and will push Green even harder.

  4. marty mars 4
    4 August 2017 at 12:37 pm

    No one is indispensable and no one is irreplaceable – Metiria has made her decision and I hope it is the correct one.

    • Marcus Morris 4.1
      4 August 2017 at 8:47 pm

      My own feeling is that by pre-empting the “cabinet” position Metiria has further muddied the water. I think that a short sharp statement saying that she regretted her past actions in that the false election address was a silly juvenile offence that in fact did no harm whatsoever, that while her other misdemeanour was a case “of needs must” she has already stated that she is prepared to make the necessary reparation if required and certainly does not condone breaking the law as a default position but, unless she is convicted of a criminal offence she has no intention of resigning. Having said that, let events take their course. Perhaps I am misreading the situation. But why give the opposition fodder and a distraction from their own problems – not least the Southern DHB issue and Coleman’s response let alone the cynical and inadequate transport plan for Auckland appearing nine years too late (remember how often Len Brown pleaded with Key for Government support and how each suggestion was spurned).

  5. Stephen Doyle 5
    4 August 2017 at 12:42 pm

    Just because she’s not seeking a ministerial position, doesn’t mean to say Jacinda won’t offer her one.

    • weka 5.1
      4 August 2017 at 1:00 pm

      After a suitable period of time, that would make sense. But there are lots of other useful things Turei can do, and building a movement might be more important than being a Minister.

      • Karen 5.1.1
        4 August 2017 at 1:29 pm

        I agree Weka.

        Metiria will still be the co leader and will still be able to work on the benefit reforms without being a minister. There is obviously a concerted attack underway by the right to undermine the Green Party and to encourage the idea of a split with Labour. James was very clear that the relationship was as strong as ever, and he had been good friends with Jacinda and Grant for many years.

        My guess is that Newshub were fed the electoral roll info by the old National Party dirty politics crew.

        • weka 5.1.1.1
          4 August 2017 at 1:35 pm

          Looks to me too that DP fingerprints are all over it. And the Greens just did tai chi and moved back out of the force of the attack.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1.1
            4 August 2017 at 3:00 pm

            If you move back you just keep on going backwards. Close the gap, cover and stick to your opponent’s force with softness until it is absorbed.

            Then you can kill it.

            • weka 5.1.1.1.1.1
              4 August 2017 at 5:40 pm

              Different lineages 😉 What some people don’t realise yet is Turei just increased her power rather than being diminished.

              • Chess Player …
                4 August 2017 at 6:17 pm

                I doubt she’s that smart, given recent events…

                • RedLogix …
                  4 August 2017 at 6:23 pm

                  Two different measures of smart in play here.

                  There’s the ‘gaming the rules’ kinda smart which impresses that large section of population comprising the likes of used car salespeople, real estate agents and merchant bankers.

                  Then there is the ‘personal integrity’ kind of smart, which can be a damned tough road to walk, but impresses the hell out people who look beneath the surface of things.

                  • Chess Player …
                    4 August 2017 at 6:39 pm

                    I get your point, but I doubt that 51% of NZers fall into the second kind of smart, sadly

                    • RedLogix …
                      4 August 2017 at 6:48 pm

                      Yup. Can’t quibble much with that.

                      But paint me neon shades of deluded fool; I still believe that 100% of them are capable of it.

                    • weka …
                      4 August 2017 at 6:50 pm

                      Apparently only 30% of NZers fall for the former.

                      http://imgur.com/BKvIGZU

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      4 August 2017 at 7:15 pm

                      …I doubt that 51% of NZers fall into the second kind of smart…

                      No!! You mean, the Green Party isn’t going to win a majority of the vote and rule alone following this election? My dreams are crushed! Crushed!!!

      • billmurray 5.1.2
        4 August 2017 at 3:49 pm

        weka 100pm.
        C’mon weka, IMO we need to get real about this situation.
        Today the Labour party, thru leaders Ardern and Davis spoke their party.
        Metiria Turei is finished with serious politics. period.

        • Robert Guyton 5.1.2.1
          4 August 2017 at 4:39 pm

          C’mon weka, we need to do as Bill suggests; torpedo everything The Greens are involved in, scrap every Labour/Green initiative, denigrate the Green MPs at every turn, especially Metiria, ‘coz, y’know, billmurray.

          • billmurray 5.1.2.1.1
            4 August 2017 at 4:50 pm

            Robert Guyton, 4.39pm.
            No Robert, we need to face what has happened.
            Stop leaning on the lamppost.

            • Robert Guyton 5.1.2.1.1.1
              4 August 2017 at 4:53 pm

              You mean, what happened 25 years ago? Regarding a poor solo mum? When those minor issues occurred?
              Let’s do that then, let’s face what has happened; big-boy’s pants on then.

              • billmurray …
                4 August 2017 at 5:10 pm

                Robert Guyton 4.53 pm
                No Robert I do not mean those matters.
                I said stop leaning on the lamppost.
                You know what I mean.
                If you cannot comprehend look at your own post 4.39pm.
                There you go.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  4 August 2017 at 5:14 pm

                  I don’t know what you mean, billmurray, but am happy for you to spell it out to me. Metiria’s voluntarily admitted offences were from over two decades ago, so why you don’t “mean those matters” I can’t tell, but again, I’m happy to hear your take on this.

                  • billmurray …
                    4 August 2017 at 5:39 pm

                    Robert Guyton 5.14pm.
                    Robert, I mean you often try to bring moderators into your points of view against people who disagree with you.
                    You are nasty to people who do not share your adulation for the Greens and you then again try to bring moderators or other commentators into the discussion against those people.
                    You are often sneaky and weasel like in your personal application to commentators who do not share with you.
                    You lean on the lamppost.
                    Sincerely said but I do expect smartass or even personal abuse in reply.
                    One small example look at your post 4.39pm.
                    Stop leaning on the lamppost.
                    In some intelligent circles its called bullying.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      4 August 2017 at 6:17 pm

                      billmurray …
                      4 August 2017 at 5:39 pm
                      Robert Guyton 5.14pm.
                      Robert, I mean you often try to bring moderators into your points of view against people who disagree with you.
                      You what???

                      You are nasty to people who do not share your adulation for the Greens and you then again try to bring moderators or other commentators into the discussion against those people.
                      I do what???

                      You are often sneaky and weasel like in your personal application to commentators who do not share with you.
                      weasel-like please, but, what???
                      You lean on the lamppost.
                      Sincerely said

                      “You lean on a lampost” – I have no idea what you mean by that, billmurray – please explain.
                      … but I do expect smartass (well, yes, of course) or even personal abuse (what???) in reply.
                      One small example look at your post 4.39pm.
                      Stop leaning on the lamppost.
                      In some intelligent circles its called bullying.
                      “leaning on the lampost is called “bullying” in “some circles”???
                      Are you okay, bill?

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      4 August 2017 at 10:28 pm

                      “You lean on a lampost” – I have no idea what you mean by that, billmurray – please explain.

                      Oh, good – I was wondering if it was some obscure in-joke that only you and Bill Murray were acquainted with, which would have been unfair on the rest of us. You are being honest with us about your lamppost habits, I hope?

                    • marty mars …
                      4 August 2017 at 10:33 pm

                      Lol Come on Robert you lamppost leaner fess up – billmurray is on something there eh?

                    • McFlock …
                      4 August 2017 at 10:42 pm

                      Bullying? Or dating…

                      I’m not sure we’re getting the full story.

  6. weka 6
    4 August 2017 at 12:46 pm

    Brilliant move by Turei and the Greens. I’m very moved and hugely relieved. Macho politics was engaged in binary thinking and the Greens just broke that in two and presented something else entirely.

    Pragmatic because it undercuts all the RW bullshit gearing up to take down the left by attacking the Greens. But also this is politics with soul. I’ve long held the belief that the Greens would not just change policy in NZ but how politics itself is done.

    Turei stood her ground, and she also made it really clear that this is not about her, it’s about the cause she is working for. It’s ok to share power, we don’t have to have the wellbeing of the country tied to politician egos or careers. And there are *lots of other good things she will be going in the new government.

    He mana wahine.

    The staying strong for welfare and beneficiaries and the commitment to transforming the system is something lefties can seriously get behind. As she said, she’s building a movement.

    • Candy1 6.1
      4 August 2017 at 1:17 pm

      Yes, I predict we’ll see the polls go UP!

    • Jeremy 6.2
      4 August 2017 at 2:34 pm

      Hi Weka,

      I was very surprised when the Greens polling went up by 20% after MT’s original revelation. It showed me that I was out of touch with other members of society.

      However I can’t agree with what you have written above. I’ll try and present the other view as I’ve heard it, hopefully in a way that encourages debate rather than a flame war:

      I can tell you that many of the people I am dealing with day to day and have been chatting about Ardern and MT with, do not see today’s announcement politically as “something else entirely” or “pragmatic” but rather nothing more than a craven attempt to hold on to a big Party Leader salary and avoid the reality of the situation. And I see their point, even the quite despicable human being David Garrett resigned for less than this, something comparable in effect to MT’s electoral mis-declaration alone.

      I will be interested to see what the people in my family who vote Labour or the Greens have to say, after asking their opinions after the first revelations I’ll surprised if (the Labour voters at least) don’t think she should resign as well.

      People have raised three main comparisons of regular law breaking (or specific examples) to what MT has done:

      1). Tax Evasion is much larger in dollar amounts than welfare overpayments.
      2). Bill English double dipped.
      3). We’ve all tried weed at some point.

      However I would hazard a guess that most people in society view these as lesser offences for the following reasons (or similar):

      1). Many people inherently view taxes as something the state assesses out of what you earn. Instinctively people view attempts (legal or illegal) to reduce what is paid out of earnings as less seriously than what is applied for via a benefit from the general tax revenue when one isn’t currently making net payments into the general tax pool.
      2). You can argue that what Bill English did was more immoral than MT, and I believe he should have resigned, but it was not illegal as the laws stood at that time. There is a large section of society who view right and wrong as whatever the laws happen to be at the time. A view I don’t really share but you hear it constantly on talk balk, “why don’t they just make X illegal”…
      3). There is no (little) third party financial component to drug use, and people on the right and left are currently involved in campaigns for weed (and other drugs) to be legalised. I.e. it’s illegality is already widely questioned, or participants only “hurt” themselves.

      As I said I’m not trying to offend people’s sensibilities, and I do fear this argument will just be written off as RWNJ nonsense, and I know most readers would have heard the above arguments before. However, the online polls seems to indicate there is a large section of society who perhaps hold the above views (or something similar) and in large enough numbers that MT always be viewed through the lens of these revelations as not trustworthy enough to be in a position to write welfare and electoral legislation. Which you could argue are the two most critical types of legislation Parliament is responsible for.

      In short, I honestly believe MT’s long term position in Parliament is now untenable.

      Think about the reaction that would be invoked in you (and the public in general) if an ACT MP had been found to have willingly committed tax evasion claiming she/he was revealing this as they believed individuals and businesses were overtaxed and this is the only way they could start a public debate. Would you ever let that MP live it down or trust them in government? Rightly or wrongly it seems that a bit chunk of society views this situation in similar terms.

      • weka 6.2.1
        4 August 2017 at 2:54 pm

        “I can tell you that many of the people I am dealing with day to day and have been chatting about Ardern and MT with, do not see today’s announcement politically as “something else entirely” or “pragmatic” but rather nothing more than a craven attempt to hold on to a big Party Leader salary and avoid the reality of the situation.”

        I’m sure there are people who believe that. I just think they’re mean-spirited, and often bigots against beneficiaries. Unlikely to be a GP vote loss though, and weighed up against the huge numbers of people on benefits or with family/friends on benefits, they’re not really a priority for me this election.

        If people can’t see what Turei is doing, that’s on them.

        That beneficiaries as pilloried for fraud but tax evaders aren’t is precisely the problem. We economically force people into poverty and then we punish them when they do what they can to make ends meet or get themselves out of that situation. It’s fucked up and NZ is on notice about it now in a way that it never has been before. This is a deep cultural issue, and the people who see Turei as greedy and self-serving are part of the problem. They’re helping create people living in cars and people dying from homelessness or damp/cold housing. They’re also helping create huge amounts of stress for a large portion of the population for no good reason other than poor ethics.

        So fuck ’em. They weren’t going to vote Green anyway, and probably not even Labour, although Labour is still an option obviously, this is MMP.

        ACT and the Greens aren’t comparable. Better comparison would be National MPs, and if a National MP has done some low level tax evasion 25 years ago, and then stood up and was honest about it, said they would pay it now, and said they wanted to use that experience to try and help people trapped in poverty, then I’d support them (assuming that support meant something). But of course that’s not going to happen, because they don’t care about poverty, but also they don’t understand what integrity is and they’ve just had a leader for 8 years who elevated lying to such an art form that it’s possible the NZ political sphere won’t recover. And that’s not lying 25 years ago, that’s lying right now.

        So get your morals and ethics and values straight.

        • Jeremy 6.2.1.1
          4 August 2017 at 5:44 pm

          Hi Weka,

          It’s true that many of the people I’ve talked to in the last week or so, are definitely not going to vote for the Greens under any circumstances. However, I’m not sure how the Greens can transform “how politics itself is done” if the attitude is “So fuck ’em” if they weren’t a likely Green voter already, and it’s their problem if they think MT should have stood down for less than what has been revealed already and that they wouldn’t trust her now to write welfare or electoral legislation.

          In my opinion that is no way to grow a base or start a movement.

          If sure the Green Party has many other members who are just as committed to increasing assistance that can join Parliament on the list, and that if MT resigned the next most capable woman could take her place and form a part of Cabinet. She is effectively costing the Greens a Cabinet position now, one less Green Party member to push for welfare reform.

          Why aren’t ACT and the Greens comparable politically? I view them both as being more ideologically pure than their National and Labour counterparts. The Greens give up a chance at the PM job (in particular) and Ministerial and Cabinet positions to run on things they sincerely believe in, as do ACT candidates. Having talked to candidates from both parties I have no doubt they both sincerely believe their world view is the best way to help the poor.

          • weka 6.2.1.1.1
            4 August 2017 at 6:59 pm

            However, I’m not sure how the Greens can transform “how politics itself is done” if the attitude is “So fuck ’em”

            Oh the Greens definitely don’t go “so fuck ’em”, that was all me 😈 In fact a core part of what the Greens do is build relationships and value relationships. So Turei will allow people to judge (rather than say fuck off), and then focus on the people who can hear what she is saying and understand what she is talking about. Those are the people she is talking to.

            In terms of growing the GP vote, I’m seeing a chunk of the left shift from being previous Labour voters who are sick of the centrism to now voting GP precisely because of what the Greens have done.

            “She is effectively costing the Greens a Cabinet position now, one less Green Party member to push for welfare reform.”

            Not sure what you mean there. There are other Green MPs that could do the job. Turei will still have a lot of influence in the party, how it forms coalition, and how it is involved in transforming welfare.

            “Why aren’t ACT and the Greens comparable politically?”

            Two ways. One is that the Overton window puts the Green RW equivalent somewhere in National. ACT’s opposition would be more like Mana. The other is that the GP have a solid team of MPs that gain their place from the electorate as the whole. ACT are only in parliament because they have a single MP in an electorate that is full of rich people and because National allows ACT to win it. Actually 3 ways, ACT’s libertarian politics aside, they just don’t have that much credibility when it comes to integrity.

            • Jeremy 6.2.1.1.1.1
              4 August 2017 at 7:43 pm

              Hi Weka,

              Surely the GP’s eventual goal should be to attract at least 26% of the vote and be leading party when forming a government, with support from Labour? If they really want to transform things that would have to be goal, and I honestly don’t ever see more than 20% of the public agreeing or condoning what MT has revealed. From my chats with people it smacks of short term thinking in trying to secure as much of the left vote as possible in this election to enhance the bargaining position after this election, and not resigning today smacks of trying to not lose the salary and perks of Parliament.

              Apologies, I should have said MT has cost the Greens a senior Cabinet position, her replacement in Cabinet will not have the same experience or weight in the Green Party and therefore is unlikely to be entrusted with a deputy PM or “juicy” portfolio.

              • weka …
                4 August 2017 at 8:03 pm

                “From my chats with people it smacks of short term thinking in trying to secure as much of the left vote as possible in this election to enhance the bargaining position after this election, and not resigning today smacks of trying to not lose the salary and perks of Parliament.”

                Sure, but again, those are people who don’t understand what the Greens are doing. From a green politics perspective, and from what I’m seeing from lots of lefties, it’s ridiculous to think that this was about MT being self-serving. That argument doesn’t even make sense, because even if she stepped down as co-leader she’d still be an MP on a good salary.

                The Greens want change not power. There’s no point in getting 20 – 25% of the vote if you have to become like National to get it. What the Greens are doing here is reaching to change society. Changing the government is part of that much bigger agenda.

                “Apologies, I should have said MT has cost the Greens a senior Cabinet position, her replacement in Cabinet will not have the same experience or weight in the Green Party and therefore is unlikely to be entrusted with a deputy PM or “juicy” portfolio.”

                Not quite following you there. Any reason Shaw can’t be deputy or have a senior Ministerial role?

                • Chess Player …
                  4 August 2017 at 8:49 pm

                  ‘The Greens want change, not power’

                  So, what would the plan be then?
                  Pick up another 1-2% each election (maybe sliding back a bit occasionally) and then eventually get there once we’re all dead?

                  How do you effect any real-life change unless you actually get into power?

                • Jeremy …
                  4 August 2017 at 10:22 pm

                  Hi Weka,

                  I’m not talking about her just stepping down as co-leader, I’m talking about her resigning from Parliament. I had assumed JS and MT would be senior Cabinet members together, given their co-leadership.

                  Honestly how do you think this is going to work? Let’s say Labour get 31% and the Greens 20% so WP and friends aren’t required. There would 24 odd Green MPs and 8 in Cabinet and JS is Deputy PM, and MT is going to be co-leader and a regular MP outside Cabinet? Her position is now untenable in my opinion.

                  Remember when the last ACT leader whatever his name was didn’t get elected to Parliament, he had to resign as leader because the electorate has spoken and his poisition didn’t fit his role. Through being ruled out of Cabinet via the revelation of this second mis-declaration and because of it’s effect on the wider public’s view about MT from multiple revelations of this type, I believe MT’s position in Parliament is similarly effected.

                  Is there any further revelation about MT that could come out that would cause you to call for her to resign? Or does she have your loyalty no matter comes to light?

                  • weka …
                    4 August 2017 at 10:29 pm

                    “Her position is now untenable in my opinion.”

                    Yet you haven’t said how or why. As I’ve said, there’s not valid comparison with ACT from my perspective. Also, Turei *has been elected and will be reelected. That’s democracy. Why should those voters not be respected?

                    “Is there any further revelation about MT that could come out that would cause you to call for her to resign? Or does she have your loyalty no matter comes to light?”

                    Sure, if it turned out that she’s lied about something important as an MP. Of if she starts eating kittens or something. I find your question weird tbh. You obviously have morals that say what she has done already is bad enough for her to leave parliament. I don’t. I think what she did 23 years ago, and that she’s been honest about, is in the misdemeanour level. As compared to say Todd Barclay and Bill English. The PM of NZ blatantly lied to the country. But hey, FJK did that for 8 years, so no big deal right? The hypocrisy is very very strong here.

                    • Jeremy …
                      4 August 2017 at 11:12 pm

                      Hi Weka,

                      I thought the example of JS being Deputy PM and MT only an MP outside of Cabinet shows that her situation is untenable.

                      It is untenable because the Labour Party has said in their opinion they cannot have her in Cabinet due to their opinion and the wider public’s opinion of her past mistakes.

                      I asked the question because MT said today that that’s it, all the cats are out of the bag, so surely you would accept another revelation of any seriousness related to her DPB means she has to resign?

                      Within hours this morning, a radio show was talking about how in 1993 MT ran in the New Lynn electorate, yet registered in Mount Albert at the Father’s address and how credible it was that someone would make a mis-declaration to vote for someone else rather than yourself, inferring of course that she really did live there. There is bound to be boundless speculation about whether her mother did give any financial assistance while they were flatting together, and how the father could have a mortgage but not be supporting MT financially. You seem to know MT personally and so know she can be believed, but surely you know the media can turn the whole campaign into a circus with speculation about the above points alone. They’ll be people trying to track down old power and phone bills with addresses and OIA requests and on and on.

                      Surely you can see how it could end up being a nightmare for both Labour and the Greens and in the end, one more forgotten thing and MT will still have to resign, and then by some miracle if it isn’t a circus for the next 7 weeks, then MT isn’t even in Cabinet.

                    • weka …
                      4 August 2017 at 11:55 pm

                      “I thought the example of JS being Deputy PM and MT only an MP outside of Cabinet shows that her situation is untenable.

                      It is untenable because the Labour Party has said in their opinion they cannot have her in Cabinet due to their opinion and the wider public’s opinion of her past mistakes.”

                      All I’m seeing is you stating some facts and tying an assertion to them (“it’s untenable”) but not providing a rationale for why it’s untenable. I still don’t get it. MT can be in the GP caucus and outside of the L/G cabinet. What exactly is wrong with that?

                      “I asked the question because MT said today that that’s it, all the cats are out of the bag, so surely you would accept another revelation of any seriousness related to her DPB means she has to resign?”

                      She said she doesn’t think there is anything else. I believe her. If it turns out there are other things she hasn’t remembered, then I guess that will get looked at at the time.

                      “There is bound to be boundless speculation about whether her mother did give any financial assistance while they were flatting together, and how the father could have a mortgage but not be supporting MT financially.”

                      Yes, there will be boundless speculation, and as a beneficiary I am well aware of how many judgemental but ignorant people there are in NZ. This is one of the reasons why MT told her story when the GP released their welfare policy. The speculation is a problem but it’s not MT’s fault it’s a problem, it’s the bene-bashing culture that NZ has allowed to develop over 30 years.

                      She’s giving her details to WINZ. WINZ will ascertain which of those details is relevant to their assessment. None of that is our business.

                      “You seem to know MT personally”

                      No, I don’t.

                      “and so know she can be believed, but surely you know the media can turn the whole campaign into a circus with speculation about the above points alone. They’ll be people trying to track down old power and phone bills with addresses and OIA requests and on and on.”

                      Yes, again, this is what beneficiaries have to deal with all the time. Which is the point of her story, to raise the problem of how beneficiaries are third class citizens who routinely get their human rights trampled on. That’s what the conversation needs to be about. By all means keep obsessing about what MT might have done in the MSM’s imagination and you will miss what is important here.

                      “Surely you can see how it could end up being a nightmare for both Labour and the Greens and in the end, one more forgotten thing and MT will still have to resign, and then by some miracle if it isn’t a circus for the next 7 weeks, then MT isn’t even in Cabinet.”

                      I actually don’t care. I think the not declaring flatmates and the lying about enrolment are relatively minor things that can and should be sorted out without destroying someone’s career or undermining the political process. *Especially when compared to the shit that National have done in the past 9 years.

                      But you know, keep on with trying to make out that poor Māori women are criminals when the govt is killing people via its policies. There’s a class war going on and it’s always helpful for people to pick a side.

                    • RedLogix …
                      5 August 2017 at 2:07 am

                      It’s been one shit of a week weka. Underneath all the back and forth in the threads I’m utterly seething at what’s happening.

                      It’s not even a left/right thing anymore. It’s something much darker going on.

          • weka 6.2.1.1.2
            4 August 2017 at 7:00 pm

            “Having talked to candidates from both parties I have no doubt they both sincerely believe their world view is the best way to help the poor.”

            Sure, in the same way that National believe their policies on say climate change or rivers are the best approach, but that’s demonstrably wrong.

        • reason 6.2.1.2
          4 August 2017 at 8:37 pm

          + 100 Weka …..
          It’s the attitudes and likes of Bill Murry and Jeremy which keeps me from ever voting Labor again.

          Bill English was rorting his accommodation allowance …. to the tune of $32,000 …. Because he was not satisfied with being a millionaire ….. and wanted to be a multi-millionaire instead ….

          He also did not own up to his greed and falsification …. but was found out.

          Turei on the other hand ……. admitted, that through NEED she accessed
          accommodation supplements …… ( and I’m betting on a far far smaller scale than Bill Englishs Greed driven ‘rule bending’) …… to provide the necessity’s of life for her daughter. and herself .

          Bill Englishs Greed driven actions are worse ….. on any comparable scale .

          I presume he’s finished in politics too …

          And if not ….. then Bill murray and Jeremy would seem to be engaging in “Dirty Politics”

          Stinkers

      • Sacha 6.2.2
        4 August 2017 at 2:56 pm

        “David Garrett resigned for less than this”

        I doubt most people who agree with your admirably clear position would join you on that point – stealing a dead baby’s identity is creepy as well as illegal.

        • weka 6.2.2.1
          4 August 2017 at 2:58 pm

          Not sure. For some people benefit fraud is one of the worst things you can do. Or at least it’s one of the things that should be most severely punished.

        • Robert Guyton 6.2.2.2
          4 August 2017 at 4:42 pm

          I forget; did Garrett volunteer the information, or was it prised from his cold, Actoid hands?

          • Jeremy 6.2.2.2.1
            4 August 2017 at 5:23 pm

            Hi Robert,

            As I’ve outlined to Sacha, what DG did, and what MT has done electorally are a similar offence in severity, and MT didn’t volunteer this either.

        • Jeremy 6.2.2.3
          4 August 2017 at 5:21 pm

          Hi Sacha,

          You must have missed the point where I said he was a despicable human being, but from the point of view of the damage done to the integrity of our passport system and electoral system they are a similar level of misrepresentation, i.e. no third party was financially effected and both acts are against the law.

          However Garrett’s was indeed creepy and I’m guessing had an emotional effect on the family involved (I can’t remember reading any news to that effect but I didn’t follow the affair too closely).

          • Sacha 6.2.2.3.1
            5 August 2017 at 9:16 am

            There was quite a visceral public reaction at the time, I assure you – and not restricted to a narrow part of the political spectrum.

      • Alex 6.2.3
        4 August 2017 at 3:52 pm

        Hi Jeremy, I don’t know Meteria personally but until last week I thought of her as a vocal champion of transparency and accountability in government (whether I agreed with her policies or not).
        On their own each of the fraud revelations are of little consequence but together they seem to tell a story about Metiria’s attitude and values that is very different to what I thought she was like.
        For me, she has lost her most important point of difference as a politician (her apparent integrity) and all credibility in the process.
        But, I’m not a Green voter so my view has no direct impact I suppose.

        • marty mars 6.2.3.1
          4 August 2017 at 4:38 pm

          Thanks for your thoughs axle they will support us all thoroughts this week.

        • Jeremy 6.2.3.2
          4 August 2017 at 5:53 pm

          Hi Alex,

          I have always admired the way the Greens seemed to view Parliament as a means to changing things rather than a career, their MPs have a strong record of leaving Parliament if they have achieved what they wanted to, or feel they aren’t achieving what they set out to, they don’t become ineffective Parliamentary furniture like half a dozen MPs you can name in Labour and National. Think how many former Green MPs choose to leave and are now in other fields outside of Parliament doing what they believe in. In general Green members aren’t pushed or voted out of Parliament, they move on to bigger things.

          I also view/viewed them as above all the perks and rorts.

          What’s happened with MT has definitely put the above into question for me, i.e. is this just an anomaly? Or do more Green MPs view themselves as allowed to break multiple laws, with little consequence? For a party that wants to increase state power for social means the public really needs to trust them to be responsible with that power.

          • Robert Guyton 6.2.3.2.1
            4 August 2017 at 7:02 pm

            Jeremy, reductio ad absurdum the final port of call for the desperate. Go J!

            • In Vino 6.2.3.2.1.1
              4 August 2017 at 7:20 pm

              For heaven’s sake – this was over 20 years ago. If MT had done it recently or been caught out doing it now, I would see why she should be condemned. But this was 20 years ago, not major, and probably impossible to prosecute for at this stage.
              Do we all want to be held ruthlessly accountable for silly or minor misdemeanours from 20 years ago?
              Some of the screaming critics need to ponder about what might happen to them before the pearly gates if there is no redemption or forgiveness over time.
              Serious or current offences only please.

            • Jeremy 6.2.3.2.1.2
              4 August 2017 at 7:36 pm

              Hi Robert,

              Not sure what you mean here. If you’re trying to reduce my points to the absurd you’d need to show connection between what I’ve said and circular reasoning, so far you haven’t really said much of anything to me.

              I’m also not sure what I’m desperate about? Getting more trustworthy politicians? If so, then guilty as charged.

              • Robert Guyton …
                4 August 2017 at 9:37 pm

                Hi, jeremy – happy to explain reductio ad absurdum for you:
                You said:
                “What’s happened with MT has definitely put the above into question for me, i.e. is this just an anomaly? Or do more Green MPs view themselves as allowed to break multiple laws, with little consequence?”
                I take it you mean that because Metiria did “A”, then all other Green Party MPs might have done “A” – you’ve made the argument absurd by your extrapolation – do you follow me?
                You say you want “more trustworthy politicians” and yet here, when a politician volunteers information from the past; owns up freely, comes clean unbidden; you swell with indignation. I wonder how indignant you were when, for example, Bill English “forgot” about Todd Barclay’s taping, or when John Key “forgot” he’d rung his old pal regarding the GCSB appointment, or when the photographs of the shot-up village were forgotten about, or when … you get the picture? I can’t recall (borrowed that from Key, English et al) seeing your passionate opposition to those behaviours here on TS. Correct me if I’m wrong.

                • Jeremy …
                  4 August 2017 at 10:51 pm

                  Hi Robert,

                  You and I have a different understanding of reductio ad absurdum, namely that the other party must take an argument and show it to be absurd, and I certainly don’t think you’ve done that.

                  As I’ve pointed out above the Greens have a stirling reputation for treating Parliament as a place to get things done, rather than a lifetime career and I can’t really remember them being involved in anything like this before, they have behaved so honourably before. So given the party’s previous actions and the fact online polls are showing that 51% of Green Party members are still supporting MT, I think it makes sense to reassess the Green Party reputation.

                  Robert, I’ve only swelled with indignation since the second revelation came out today which MT did not volunteer. I didn’t agree with how she went about her revelation, but was admirable that she she took a risk and exposed a vulnerability to bring the issue to light. However there have been a number of circumstances revealed that I think show how she has gone about it was almost definitely wrong in hindsight.

                  I only starting posting earlier this year and only post periodically on The Standard as I travel a lot for business and sadly work too much while away, but as I pointed out above BE should have resigned over his double dipping, and Judith Collins should have gone over her scandal, Mallard should have gone over punching Henare, Winston Peter should have gone over “forgetting” about the Owen Glenn donation, etc. etc.

                  Politicians shouldn’t get a pass because they’re on our “team”, they should all be held to a very high standard. For example, Barclay has resigned for illegally recording someone, he was seeking our vote to be a backbencher. MT has admitted to making a mis-declaration to both WINZ and now the Electoral Commission and is seeking our vote to be Deputy PM. If we are going to objective and really honest with ourselves which is the more serious offence from the politician with the most gravitas?

                  • Sacha …
                    5 August 2017 at 9:20 am

                    Barclay has *not* resigned (hence we’re still paying him). He has merely withdrawn his name from standing again. Yet media are repeating that line fed to them enthusiastically by the Farrars and Hooters.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    5 August 2017 at 9:47 am

                    “I’ve only swelled with indignation since the second revelation came out today which MT did not volunteer.”
                    Jeremy – if news that 26 years ago, a young woman voted outside of her area has you swollen with indignation, you are beyond our help.

        • Venezia 6.2.3.3
          4 August 2017 at 9:20 pm

          Alex…. Metiria did not commit these ‘sins’ recently or during the time she has been an MP. It was over 20 years ago, and she has given good reasons in my book (in order to manage as a single parent & when she was 20 and foolish for the electorate thing). Her attitude and values have always impressed me, her motivation to come clean had an honourable intention, and she will be getting my vote.
          Compared to the dirty politics, dishonesty and sheer corruption of the current government we have had to put up with over the last 9 years, she is a model of integrity in my book.

          • Ed 6.2.3.3.1
            4 August 2017 at 9:35 pm

            +100

          • Alex 6.2.3.3.2
            7 August 2017 at 11:29 am

            I hear you. I wasn’t really comparing her to the others as much as comparing her to what I thought about her a week ago. She is now little different than the rest to me and I used to think a little more highly of her.

  7. Keepcalmcarryon 7
    4 August 2017 at 12:47 pm

    I thought we already knew she wouldn’t take a ministerial position?
    Is it time to remind the media again of Bill double dipton rorting his accommodation allowance and actually now being prime minister? Where was his witch hunt?
    Perhaps we have slipped in to a parallel universe.

    • DoublePlusGood 7.1
      4 August 2017 at 1:30 pm

      “I thought we already knew she wouldn’t take a ministerial position?”

      Isn’t that just a standard clever politics play though? In a tough situation, promise people something you were going to do anyway?

    • popexplosion 7.2
      4 August 2017 at 1:33 pm

      Yes. People often elect to vote in a different electorate from where they live. Their family resides there, their Moari, or they are a MP who lives in a neighboring constituency moved by election boundary changes, so using the election register as evidence for a breach of benefit rules is at best ridiculous and at worse could be smearing a MP. She said her friend was standing in the seat where the ex who fathered her kid lives, she would like any mum doubled up and be helping her friend while letting dad look after the kid or whatever, its not rock science, WINZ don’t own those on a benefit, any reasonable reason to stay connected cannot be cause for criminality. We need beneficiaries to be MORE engaged not less, benefit should not be Covertly, or some reglious cloister hermitage, WINZ has a actually duty NOT to alienate and harm those in recipit of a benefit. Like not understanding that blind people will bring their seeing eye dogs to the WINZ office. Complicating existing disability and illness ain’t a good outcome, it shows a disregard for taxpayers money that some view WINZ as punishment for poverty. Well Key did transfer ex criminals to WINZ rather than sending them to the parole office. The taxpayer rightly provides citizens with help because it a benefit to SOCIETY, not to have beggers, ghettos, vectors for disease, kids burdened by childhood growing up broken. Benefits was never about some prig in the radio shock jock beating up on the poor coz it appeals to their audience. Aka Hooten attack on his own incapacity to imagine why disabled and ill might not have self cured after fifteen years. Cheap nasty be any bashing from a creep. Benefit recipient, family assistance, etc doeth not maketh them a criminal, in fact, less seriously egrievous fraud its actually detrimental to the purpose of providing assistance. I mean had Turei not engaged in politics she may not have studied for the law and become an MP, paying income taxes far larger than that we taxpayers invested in her. Venturing a pitiful amount so fellow brothers, sisters,aunts, uncles,cousins or whoever get back on track. And how are they when the pervading culture says to disregard and socially castrate benefitacies like Turei.

  8. Chess Player 8
    4 August 2017 at 1:15 pm

    ‘As a result of my fraud, I will not apply for a promotion’

    Jeez – you couldn’t make this stuff up!

    • Stuart Munro 8.1
      4 August 2017 at 1:24 pm

      Reads like Key’s CV.

    • RedLogix 8.2
      4 August 2017 at 1:34 pm

      Jeez – you couldn’t make this stuff up!

      Yeah … that’s what we thought when we read about the Double Dipper’s housing allowance fraud. But then he was only a Minister of the Crown at the time so I guess it was just an understandable little mistake.

      • In Vino 8.2.1
        4 August 2017 at 7:26 pm

        As I remember, one of Blinglish’s mitigating circumstances was that Parliamentary services had actually told him it was OK to make the double claim at the time. I don’t admire him, but if we want mitigation for MT maybe we should be consistent. Too much mud-slinging in general to my mind.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 8.3
      4 August 2017 at 1:34 pm

      Why not? Lying sacks of right wing hypocrisy make shit up every single day.

    • popexplosion 8.4
      4 August 2017 at 1:40 pm

      Oh. She a politician, a lawyer, and its a election campaign where spinning the issue leads to showing up existing policies as stupid farces setup by bored bureaucrats to feed conservative visionaries of a brighter future where poverty is a crime.

    • billmurray 8.5
      4 August 2017 at 4:56 pm

      Chess Player 1.15 pm.
      lol.
      No, its live.

  9. Robert Guyton 9
    4 August 2017 at 1:27 pm

    Elegant, Metiria, elegant.

    • weka 9.1
      4 August 2017 at 1:36 pm

      tai chi is a beautiful, elegant martial art.

    • billmurray 9.2
      4 August 2017 at 4:16 pm

      Robert Guyton 1.27pm.
      ‘You can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear’.
      Look at Arderns and Davis’s statements.
      IMO she’s been sacked by Labour!.
      Serious politics for Metiria are finito.

      • Robert Guyton 9.2.1
        4 August 2017 at 4:45 pm

        Billmurray – elegance and nuance are foreign bodies to you, I see. Metiria and Jacinda conferred, decided the best course of action for both parties and Metiria acted. Elegant and nuanced politics. Lots of shouting, mind you, but not from the perceptive.

  10. solkta 10
    4 August 2017 at 2:11 pm

    Nuff respect Metiria!

  11. DoublePlusGood 11
    4 August 2017 at 2:21 pm

    Maximum respect for Metiria and the Greens.

    None whatsoever for Labour.

    • red-blooded 11.1
      4 August 2017 at 2:58 pm

      Don’t dump this on Labour. Turei must have known her announcement would split people. She’s succeeded in getting a conversation started and she got a spike of support for the Greens. Labour does have to consider a broader range of opinions, though. The people who approve of Metriria’s speaking out and don’t judge her for this issue are already likely to vote left, but we need others if we want to have any chance of changing the government. Besides, Turei has said that she made her own decision and that no-one in Labour had contacted her. Let’s give her credit for being able to read the political situation and for making a well-judged announcement. She can bide her time…

      • Mike Bond 11.1.1
        4 August 2017 at 3:24 pm

        Another lie from Metiria. Jacinda said she had contacted Greens in the morning and told them she was not happy to accommodate Metiria as a minister if she won the election.

        [“Another lie from Metiria” I’d like to see that one backed up. Provide a link and a cut and paste to support your assertion that Turei has lied today about who spoke to whom and what they spoke about.

        You’ve got until 6pm to back it up or withdraw the accusation that Turei lied and let me know that you will choose your words with more care from now on. Otherwise I will moderate.

        Read the Policy about wasting moderator time because I won’t be doing any back and forth on this. Putting a note in the backend for future reference. – weka]

        [banned until 1 Dec – weka]

        • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1.1.1
          4 August 2017 at 3:34 pm

          Jacinda Arden said she had not spoken to Metiria Turei, so it turns out the lie is yours. Resign! You’re a disgrace! Disgusting! How many other lies have you ever told! Filth.

  12. Ford Prefect 12
    4 August 2017 at 2:50 pm

    So this means its okay to register for another electorate. I live in a very safe Labour seat and my vote is wasted. Can I register for a different electorate that would make my National vote swing a marginal seat? That would be great…

    • Robert Guyton 12.1
      4 August 2017 at 4:46 pm

      Go ahead, Ford, with our blessing.

      • In Vino 12.1.1
        4 August 2017 at 7:31 pm

        You know you would not be the first! My own daughter is flatting in various locations – not yet settled. I am happy for her to remain registered as at my address – she lived here for several months this year. Your preciousness over this is silly.

  13. McFlock 13
    4 August 2017 at 2:51 pm

    The country’s loss, but it also means that the Greens will have a leader outside Cabinet, not bound by collective responsibility.

    Oh, gosh, am I talking like the election result will have a labgrn cabinet? Wow, it’s almost like the nats getting their knickers in a twist over Turei has backfired into media discussions about what a labgrn government will look like.

    • weka 13.1
      4 August 2017 at 2:57 pm

      😆

      This is the problem for the morally vacuous right, they just don’t know what to do with strategy based in integrity. I expect we will see more dirt, and the election is not a done deal yet, but I am more cautiously optimistic than I was yesterday.

      “that the Greens will have a leader outside Cabinet, not bound by collective responsibility.”

      Does that work at the individual level? Or will the Green caucus be bound by the coalition deal?

      • McFlock 13.1.1
        4 August 2017 at 3:01 pm

        Depends on the deal, I guess. But 15-20% buys a better deal 🙂

        Yeah, in the absence of polls I’m feeling better about the lab change and how the greens are going than I did a day or two back. I do really want to know where bill english registered his arse to vote in the ten years prior to 2009 though.

      • Planet Earth 13.1.2
        4 August 2017 at 4:06 pm

        The thing is, where you see “strategy based in integrity” others see someone sent to the naughty corner for benefit and electoral law fraud. A “little” early to be counting them chickens.

        • weka 13.1.2.1
          4 August 2017 at 4:11 pm

          Those people weren’t going to vote for the Greens though.

          edit, the strategy isn’t just about getting votes from people who don’t get them. It’s about sidestepping the MSM, maintaining the relationship with Labour, getting to refocus on the election campaign etc.

  14. esoteric pineapples 14
    4 August 2017 at 3:13 pm

    “If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.” Cardinal Richelieu

    For anyone who thinks facts should always trump principle, remember that the NSA now collects all electronic data from New Zealand – yes, your email, phone calls, texts, facebook posts, tweets etc – and will hand these back to our spy agencies to hand on to whoever they want to use it to be in power. There wouldn’t be one person in New Zealand who doesn’t have something in their history that could be revealed in the media to destroy their career. This is a technique that is going to be used again and again in the future to discredit conservationists etc who stand in the way of their agenda.

  15. WILD KATIPO 15
    4 August 2017 at 3:20 pm

    Was listening to Edward Snowden last night ,… and one of the things he said was this :

    ” There’s right and wrong , then there’s what is legal or illegal ”

    And another way of saying that was ,.. just because there are laws, doesn’t mean they are right.

    Any person who believes the laws regarding welfare – and more importantly welfare policy in this country and the manner by which beneficiaries are treated , – is fair , humane and equitable is deliberately skirting the issue. They are those who will observe the letter of the law , and not the spirit of it.

    And , hypocritically , will be the first to reach for their lawyers phone number to defend them against acts which they have done . We see this played out time and again in white collar tax evasion cases.

    What Metiria has done is what has had to be done countless times before in history in opposing an unjust , venal and punitive set of policy’s that have for far too long brutalized large sectors of society and maintained silence surrounding the issue through fear. And much of that fear has come from individuals in a place of political power who had the ability to rectify the situation but chose not to.

    And they chose not to because they viewed beneficiaries by and large as non voters and not significant enough in number to consider their plights as gaining an advantage at the polls for those politicians.

    It was easy to ignore those populations. However , poverty in this country has now reached enough critical mass that politically , it was only a matter of time before someone stepped up to the plate and raised the issue. And more often than not , it will be a person who also has been victimized in a similar way.

    Metiria Turei has smashed that misconception and the silence surrounding it.

    In the years to come Metiria will be widely regarded as a bold visionary .

    Ghandi himself broke the ‘ law’ .

    And yet few would dare to assert Mahatma Ghandi’s permanent and historic role in advancing global human rights and the advancement of the position of the poor as valid human beings was not of paramount necessity for a decent society.

    And Metiria has followed in that tradition.

    • billmurray 15.1
      4 August 2017 at 3:38 pm

      Wild Katipo 3.20 pm,
      Hello Spud,
      IMO Ardern and Davis put the sword to Metiria today, she is finished in serious politics of this country.
      I predict a real rise in the polls for Labour.

      • WILD KATIPO 15.1.1
        4 August 2017 at 3:45 pm

        Then you have not read the groundswell of opinion of those who see the need for social and political change very well , … have you. What this is going to do is introduce a whole new narrative about just who … and more importantly why they have allowed social conditions in this country to deteriorate so badly , since 1984 .

        And particularly so under the Bolger govt and his Finance Mnister Ruth Richardson and her Mother of all Budgets 1991 and its legacy.

        This will not reflect well on the neo liberal far right. Which in this country , are represented primarily by the National and ACT party’s.

        Their time is ending.

        • billmurray 15.1.1.1
          4 August 2017 at 4:01 pm

          Wild Katipo 3.45pm.
          I hope you are right about what you have said.
          But I believe I am right about Metiria, serious politics are now outside her grasp.

          • Robert Guyton 15.1.1.1.1
            4 August 2017 at 5:06 pm

            “Serious politics” is what Metiria is engaging in right now.

            • billmurray 15.1.1.1.1.1
              4 August 2017 at 5:24 pm

              Robert Guyton. 5.06pm.
              Yes Robert, but after today its all over.
              Today Labour dumped bigtime on her.
              A star today, a has-been tomorrow.

              • WILD KATIPO …
                4 August 2017 at 6:07 pm

                Only in your viscous , concern troll mind. You would be the same sort of dog in the manger to want this person imprisoned. Your opinions are not worth taking seriously precisely because they are designed only to spread fear, confusion and division.

                You have nothing whatsoever constructive to add barring your destructive agenda for the National party . And that agenda is to enable National and its neo liberal backers to continue with its viscous campaign of socially dividing the people of this country under the guise of their duplicitous ‘ morality’.

                Begone , troll.

                Mini Bio: Gandhi – YouTube
                youtube▶ 3:35
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ept8hwPQQNg

              • Robert Guyton …
                4 August 2017 at 7:07 pm

                In your eyes, bill, Metiria was “a star”?
                Respect!
                Metiria’s light is growing in intensity, not dimming (though you’re wishing hard out)

              • Ed …
                4 August 2017 at 9:02 pm

                And you never ever broke any laws…..

      • RedLogix 15.1.2
        4 August 2017 at 3:48 pm

        Hard not to agree with you.

        While I sincerely wished Adern and Davis to go well, I also wanted to wait and see how it played out. And experienced hands like Lyn and Anne both expressed reservations about the process around Little’s resignation.

        At first glance Labour looks to be headed hard right. Maybe they want to return to their roots and occupy the vacuum left by ACT. /sarc

        • Anne 15.1.2.1
          4 August 2017 at 4:10 pm

          No, I don’t believe she’s hard right RL. I think I know Jacinda well enough to appreciate she’s to the left-of-centre. However politics is the art of the possible, so that will inevitably rein her in. Helen Clark faced the same predicament. We have to accept that the majority of the voters are socially conservative. They do eventually catch up with the rest of us but its a slow process. 🙁

          • RedLogix 15.1.2.1.1
            4 August 2017 at 5:06 pm

            There is a strong parallel with recent events over the Tasman where two Green MP’s both resigned because of an issue with dual citizenship. In at least one instance the MP really had no awareness that he was still an NZ citizen because he’d moved to Australia as a child.

            Yet critically he saw that the issue, however absurd and unreasonable, had become a ‘distraction’, and that resigning was the safest course of action to close it down.

            That’s all that Adern and Davis had to do; acknowledge the story had become a distraction and accept Turei’s offer with regret.

            • Anne 15.1.2.1.1.1
              4 August 2017 at 6:50 pm

              I think Ardern pretty much did that RL. She talked about Turei’s decision as “incredibly sad” but that she “believed it was the right decision”. She went on to bat away questions about whether Metiria could join a cabinet in the future by describing it as “hypothetical”.

              Edit: RNZ had a video of this afternoon’s media conference with Jacinda and Kelvin and it was fascinating in terms of the questions asked and who was asking them but it’s now disappeared.

            • Carolyn_nth 15.1.2.1.1.2
              4 August 2017 at 7:04 pm

              I’m somewhat suspicious that Ardern is not really making the hard calls – that one GR is the strategy advisor, the puppet master behind the scenes.

              I can picture Ardern being a serious policy wonk. She is a slick and witty communicator. But I just have difficulty seeing her as much of a strong leader and strategist at this stage.

              • Stuart Munro …
                4 August 2017 at 7:14 pm

                There’s something about following a trail of breadcrumbs dropped by Gower that ought to make Labour very careful.

                • Carolyn_nth …
                  4 August 2017 at 7:51 pm

                  I don’t understand that, Stuart, as I rarely watch or read Gower these days.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    4 August 2017 at 9:01 pm

                    I don’t either – my facebook feed had a story out by him this morning recommending that Jacinda sideline Metiria – followed by a congratulatory story on her action that forestalled that possibility. Later, Labour aspirant Ala al Bustanji was also trying to tell us that Gower, unlike Hosking, was very clever.

          • lprent 15.1.2.1.2
            4 August 2017 at 5:39 pm

            Yeah. It is exactly the same problem that Helen had, and for many of the same reasons (or their successors)

          • Draco T Bastard 15.1.2.1.3
            5 August 2017 at 3:10 am

            However politics is the art of the possible

            That’s what they say.

            Seems to be wrong though as the politicians, especially the right-wing ones, keep trying to do the impossible of infinite growth on a finite planet.

      • Macro 15.1.3
        4 August 2017 at 5:00 pm

        If what you say is correct – then IMHO Labour can just fuck themselves! They are are not worth the candle, and if it was Ardern who called that shot, then she is is little more than a heartless bitch.
        This minor act of youthful silliness 24 years ago, with a maximum penalty of 3 mths, and which is no longer able to be brought before the courts even by the Solicitor General, is so inconsequential in its gravity – even a prankster registering his dog to vote has never been charged.
        Now tell me – which is the more serious offence – driving home even though you are a little pissed – or registering for an election using an address at which you are known, but at which you do not reside? I’ll tell you the answer, the one that can cause serious injury to others. Now tell me – which Cabinet ministers haven’t indulged in that offence at some stage in their youth, and who are the honest ones who are speaking up about it?

        • RedLogix 15.1.3.1
          4 August 2017 at 5:12 pm

          Yep. I’m trying to breath through my nose and count to a large multiple of 10 before I let rip. But what you’ve said is exactly how I feel right now.

        • rhinocrates 15.1.3.2
          4 August 2017 at 6:33 pm

          It’s been demonstrated time and again that Labour thinks that there’s a lot of space under the bus.

          Just had someone from Labour call asking for my vote last night. I hung up, can’t even be bothered arguing with them.

        • red-blooded 15.1.3.3
          4 August 2017 at 9:52 pm

          Try to see the bigger picture here, Macro. This is not about Metiria’s individual political ambitions – it’s about creating the best chance we can for forming a left-lead government. She recognises this, and has had the good sense and humility to stand aside to allow her party and her values the greatest possible chance to succeed. Similarly, Andrew Little recognised that he would serve his party and his cause better by standing aside than by continuing as leader. He’s an honourable man and he did the honourable thing.

          Most people commenting on this site don’t judge Metiria for lying to WINZ when she was young and in need, or for the thing with the electoral roll, but this site isn’t representative of the wider voting public – if it was, things would look very different in our country. If we want a government based around a coalition of the left, we need to accomodate the middle-of-the-road, swinging voter. That’s just the way it is.

          I don’t know if Ardern sent a message of some kind to Turei – both say she didn’t and that it was Turei’s decision – but if she did, that wouldn’t make her a “bitch”, it would just show that she does have the tactical skills that someone above (Carolyn_nyth?) was doubting.

    • Ed 15.2
      4 August 2017 at 9:04 pm

      Rosa Parks broke the law.
      There is justice and there are bad wrong laws.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDZK09AUXT8

      • WILD KATIPO 15.2.1
        4 August 2017 at 10:23 pm

        Nice !

        Another famous case of civil disobedience because of immoral and unjust laws.

        And when we do not oppose them ?

        We get this sort of shit .

        And I don’t give a damn any more about idiots who want to rant about Godwins law. The guy was just an online geek who coined it in the first place. Not someone who really had to live under a shitty govt. And since 1991 and Ruth Richardsons Mother of all Budgets , we have had the neo liberals punitive war on the poor.

        Fuck them!

        Stand with Metiria !

        Persecution of the Jews in Nazi Germany – YouTube
        you tube▶ 4:17
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_9Y37wbUR0

  16. mary_a 16
    4 August 2017 at 3:46 pm

    Metiria’s decision not to seek or expect a ministerial position in the next government, is our loss. She would make a great cabinet minister, possibly one of the best, dutifully serving NZ well, particularly the vulnerable and disadvantaged, of which she once was.

    #IstandwithMetiria.

    • savenz 16.1
      4 August 2017 at 4:11 pm

      Personally think Metiria should not stand down in as being a cabinet minister. Our PM for Pete’s sake has been caught stealing $32k for housing which he paid back and that wasn’t in his youth and Paula Bennett has far worse allegations against her, which she is using high powered lawyers to silence.

  17. savenz 17
    4 August 2017 at 3:50 pm

    Sign here if you want fairness, with Paula Bennett also having a Winz Fraud Inquiry.

    https://www.change.org/p/justice-minister-paula-bennett-winz-fraud-inquiry

  18. adam 18
    4 August 2017 at 3:51 pm

    How much lies and untruths are people going to take?

    Seriously these attacks on Metiria are proof positive that national and it’s hard right support base, abuse and use Christianity to get votes. They do not subscribe to any Christian ethics, forgiveness and love have been thrown out, by them and their supporters. Instead it’s revenge and hate.

    There is no love of the poor, no attempt to uplift people. It’s all hate, hate, hate. Christ ask us to forgive our enemies, so today I will I forgive national party supporters and their lackeys for the hate in their hearts and their lack of morals.

    I will also forgive them there revenge voting come the election. They should just remember that money is not God, nor will the national party protect the faithful. It hasn’t protected the weakest in society for the last 9 years, they never will. Too many of them love cupidity, rather than God’s children.

    • Richard Christie 18.1
      4 August 2017 at 6:24 pm

      How much lies and untruths are people going to take?

      Well, for one thing, I’m not believing all that christianity bs, besides it being irrelevant to the topic.

      • In Vino 18.1.1
        4 August 2017 at 7:44 pm

        Some of them think that they live in the real world of business. Morals are good only for preening their own respectability and criticising opponents. Sad people – they have no compunction about damage they do.

    • Ed 18.2
      4 August 2017 at 9:01 pm

      A vicious witchhunt created by the establishment media.
      Gower and Garner are quite repulsive human beings.

  19. savenz 19
    4 August 2017 at 3:55 pm

    Obviously ok for the PM to be a fraudster while being an MP!

    “Caving in to pressure, Bill English has paid back $32,000 and vowed to stop claiming a housing allowance.

    The deputy prime minister admitted yesterday that the row over his housing allowance had taken his attention away from running the economy, while Prime Minister John Key said the row had become “an unfortunate distraction”.

    Mr English has come under fire over allowances he claimed for living in his $1.2 million Karori house, but has failed to shut down the controversy since it was revealed by The Dominion Post in July.

    He said yesterday he had paid back $32,000 and pledged not to claim any more taxpayer cash for housing.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2910957/Bill-English-buckles-over-housing-allowance

  20. marty mars 20
    4 August 2017 at 4:54 pm

    Reading some strong statements from some activists on fbook about the way Metiria was left by labour and about the new slogan. Hmmm I’m happy personally because NONE of this is the way I would have handled ANY of it. I sorta love that too – I love seeing empowerment, jeepers I need a nana nap now

    • weka 20.1
      4 August 2017 at 7:55 pm

      Lol, I had a nana nap andchocolate. Intense day. I suspect the next 7 weeks are going to be like this, am thinking about pacing strategies now.

  21. Carolyn_nth 21
    4 August 2017 at 6:31 pm

    John Campbell nailed it at the end of his interview with Metiria on Checkpoint tonight. he said that Metiria had got into all this trouble, because she enrolled in a different electorate – not the one she was a candidate in – so she could vote for her friend rather than herself.

  22. Sabine 22
    4 August 2017 at 7:44 pm

    this has been in my mind for a while now.

    The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
    Anatole France, The Red Lily, 1894, chapter 7

    🙂

  23. Venezia 23
    4 August 2017 at 9:25 pm

    Meanwhile Paula Benefit is being kept out of the media…..

  24. Ed 24
    4 August 2017 at 9:38 pm

    Have Gower or Garner paid cash for a job done?

  25. Robert Guyton 25
    4 August 2017 at 9:51 pm

    “This is utterly ridiculous. Legally, its not clear that there was any offence, and even if there was, it is so long ago and so minor as to be utterly trivial (seriously – its on the same level as the standard protest charge of disorderly conduct. And can you imagine the palpitations those establishment political commentators would have if it emerged that Turei had ever participated in a political protest?) This is not the sort of thing that should rule anyone out from a political or Ministerial career. But Metiria’s real crime wasn’t stopping her kid from starving, or voting in the “wrong” electorate: it was putting the issue of our society’s weaponisation of poverty front and centre, and standing up for the poor and downtrodden. And it has now been made crystal clear that that is absolutely intolerable to the establishment, and so she has been crucified for it. Which kindof proves her point, neh?”

    I/S coins, “Martyria”

    • marty mars 25.2
      4 August 2017 at 9:54 pm

      + 1 yep so much nonsense – the whole thing is a bad joke

      • Ed 25.2.1
        4 August 2017 at 10:01 pm

        Idiot Savant and Giovanni Tiso write a lot of sense.
        Her crime was to challenge the establishment.
        We know the media’s position on that.
        And we’ve found out Labours.

    • RedLogix 25.3
      4 August 2017 at 11:25 pm

      The weaponisation of poverty. Jeeze that’s razor sharp.

      The way the DP machine has sliced down one left wing leader after another, from Helen Clark onward infuriates me beyond words. It’s not something I trust myself to type about coherently, or without malice. The RedLogix you know here is only a projection of some aspects of the real person typing, who grieves and rages quietly.

  26. Sabine 26
    4 August 2017 at 10:19 pm

    do we have the nightshift of little paid Natbots here? what you reckon?
    and do you think they get paid by word count or post count?

  27. Psycho Milt 27
    4 August 2017 at 10:35 pm

    It was a clever move. It inoculates Labour against any attempt to turn their more conservative supporters against them and ruins Hooton, Farrar et al’s next lot of attack lines (Labour = crim in cabinet) before they even finished preparing them. At the same time, Turei’s still getting to put her message onto the 6pm news. That’s some pretty sharp stuff.

    The only annoying thing is that I really wanted to see her become Minister of Social Development, or whatever less-meaningless name they choose to give it. It would be hard for that to happen now (less hard than achieving a Labour/Green government, but still pretty hard). More to the point – who’s going to want that cabinet position now? She owns it completely.

    • WILD KATIPO 27.1
      4 August 2017 at 11:56 pm

      But we still cannot go past the fact that , … in 2009 a senior Minister of an incumbent govt who was earning a large salary was caught out taking monies they were not entitled to. Who then went on to not only become Finance Minister for several terms of office , but who now is Prime Minister.

      A senior Minister , who effectively siphoned off $32,000.00 in housing allowances from the tax payer that he was not entitled to. And there was no real talk of fraud charges.

      Let that sink in a minute.

      Then compare that with a young solo mother with a small child to feed and clothe , on a small student allowance while studying for a degree and wracking up a hefty student loan , … yet did not disclose the full amount of flatmates she had because it would have compromised her already meager student allowance , yet who was not even in parliament .

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