Metiria Turei’s legacy
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- Date published:
7:27 am, September 26th, 2017 - 127 comments
Categories: benefits, bill english, class war, journalism, Metiria Turei, poverty, welfare -
Tags: #IamMetiria, MSM, stephanie rodgers
Metiria Turei explains this week why she has no regrets about her admission of benefit fraud from 25 years ago,
It means that no-one in this country claim ignorance of what poverty looks like. Or can claim ignorance about how the system drives people into such despair.
A whole lot of shit went down after her admission, but in the past few months I’ve seen more real stories of people’s struggle with poverty and welfare being told in the MSM and on social media than I’ve ever seen before. The importance of this cannot be overestimated, because the kinds of stories being told about welfare determine what we do.
It’s not stopping. Here’s Catriona MacLennan at Newsroom writing yesterday about the importance of Turei’s act and putting it up against Bill English’s reputation and responsibility for poverty in NZ,
2017 was the year in which the first tremors of a povertyquake started in Aotearoa, but fake news based on fearmongering and selfishness saw them speedily suppressed.
Former Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei’s admission of benefit fraud electrified the country and – finally – started a real debate about poverty and our awful treatment of beneficiaries.
In the wake of her confession the Greens soared to 15 per cent in the 1 News-Colmar Brunton poll, their highest-ever result.
Small wonder, then, that Turei had to be brought down.
…
Turei has spent 20 years campaigning against poverty. She said she had made submissions, given speeches and promoted members’ bills, but the result had been no improvement.
In fact, things had got worse.
All she had left was her story and her baby’s story.
She was right. Without her admission, the Greens’ ‘Mending the Safety Net’ welfare policy would have been a sidebar in journalists’ stories.
Political journalists have serious reflection to do on their takedown of Turei.
They decided their job was to dig into who Turei flatted with 25 years ago.
Our country would be a very different – and much better – place if they had instead seen their role as challenging the Minister of Social Development on why benefits are deliberately kept at unliveable levels.
MacLennan on Bill English,
The other key feature of the election was the ripping aside of Prime Minister Bill English’s mask as an honest, compassionate conservative.
This was never an accurate image, given that one of English’s first acts on being elected to Parliament in 1990 was to vote in favour of the benefit cuts which have wrecked the lives of hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders and continue to cause poverty to this day.
It was not former Prime Minister John Key who for eight years drove the policies which have resulted in homelessness, low wages, a mental health crisis and other despair.
Key was the popular face, but it was English who was the policy initiator.
And about what happened when Labour overtook National in the polls. Another take down.
In the final televised leaders’ debate English stared into the camera and said Labour’s fiscal plan had an $11.7 billion hole, Labour would increase income tax, and the party with the largest number of votes had the right to form a government.
All of those things were untrue.
Also great in the MSM this week was Stephanie Rodgers as one of the guest commentators on RNZ’s post-election special (starts at 17 mins),
I really just do think that this election represents a lost opportunity to have a really honest, significant conversation about the welfare state, poverty, inequality and just how broken things are.
One of the other commentators trotted out the middle class lines about Turei not having apologised. Rodgers again,
I just don’t know what she had to apologise for to be honest… she was making an incredibly important point, this is what many, many families have to do…
Wallace Chapman interrupts in a rather agitated manner to talk about Turei not paying the money back, and Rodgers continues,
You know who else didn’t pay things back, until they got caught? Bill English with his housing allowance. And he didn’t need that. She needed that to feed her child. And that to me is a point that really got missed in amongst what became a very mucky story about ‘where was she living?’ and ‘was she really in a relationship?’, and all kinds of insinuations we didn’t need.
These are the voices we need to hear. People speaking up and pushing back against the dominant narrative that says the behavioural standards of the ruling classes should reign supreme and everyone else should be judged by them. I don’t mind that there are people in NZ who think badly of Turei. I do mind that too many in the MSM couldn’t tell the story straight.
Stephanie Rodgers is getting a few radio gigs now as a left wing commentator, long may that continue and here’s hoping it heralds a shift in the MSM taking both left wing and welfare politics seriously (someone needs to have a word with Wallace Chapman about talking over the end of his commentators’ sentences though).
MacLennan’s article finishes with this,
Let 2020 be the election of the povertyquake, when New Zealanders come together in shared concern for all parts of the community and vote to lift everyone up, rather than only the favoured.
Whatever happens in the next three weeks with the formation of the next government, we have work to do. There is still a lot of processing of the outcome on Saturday night and the campaign that ran before it. We need time to take in the complexities of the last two months, so much happened in that time. We also need to keep the momentum going of the things that changed for the better.
Turei’s legacy is one of them and may end up being the most important event of the election. The Greens sacrificed institutional power to break the 3 decades long anti-welfare spell that neoliberalism had placed on the country. It was the right thing to do, and it’s up to all of us now to pick up the baton in whatever ways we can and make the best of that.
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- Climate action must remain priority in transport investmentAs large parts of Aotearoa recover from two of the worst climate disasters we have ever experienced, it would be a huge mistake for the Government to deprioritise climate action from future transport investments, the Green Party says. ...2 weeks ago
- Historic oceans treaty a wake-up call for AotearoaThe Green Party is celebrating the signing of a historic United Nations Ocean Treaty, and calls on the new Oceans and Fisheries Minister to urgently step up protection for Aotearoa’s oceans. ...2 weeks ago
- National would make life harder for peopleChristopher Luxon and the National Party are not telling the full story when it comes to childcare, the Green Party says. ...2 weeks ago
- Greens back School Strike demandsThe Green Party backs the demands of the School Strike for Climate. ...3 weeks ago
- Building back better, safer and smarterThis year has seen a series of extreme weather events, unparalleled in New Zealand’s recent history. From Cape Reinga in the far north down to the Tararua Ranges, families and businesses across the country have suffered enormous loss and hardship. While the severe weather hasn’t directly affected every part of ...3 weeks ago
- Conference of Pacific Education Ministers – Keynote Address
E nga mana, e nga iwi, e nga reo, e nga hau e wha, tena koutou, tena koutou, tena koutou kātoa. Warm Pacific greetings to all. It is an honour to host the inaugural Conference of Pacific Education Ministers here in Tāmaki Makaurau. Aotearoa is delighted to be hosting you ...3 hours ago - New $13m renal unit supports Taranaki patientsThe new renal unit at Taranaki Base Hospital has been officially opened by the Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall this afternoon. Te Huhi Raupō received around $13 million in government funding as part of Project Maunga Stage 2, the redevelopment of the Taranaki Base Hospital campus. “It’s an honour ...4 hours ago
- Second Poseidon aircraft on home soilDefence Minister Andrew Little has marked the arrival of the country’s second P-8A Poseidon aircraft alongside personnel at the Royal New Zealand Air Force’s Base at Ohakea today. “With two of the four P-8A Poseidons now on home soil this marks another significant milestone in the Government’s historic investment in ...6 hours ago
- Further humanitarian aid for Türkiye and SyriaAotearoa New Zealand will provide further humanitarian support to those seriously affected by last month’s deadly earthquakes in Türkiye and Syria, says Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta. “The 6 February earthquakes have had devastating consequences, with almost 18 million people affected. More than 53,000 people have died and tens of thousands more ...6 hours ago
- Community voice to help shape immigration policyMigrant communities across New Zealand are represented in the new Migrant Community Reference Group that will help shape immigration policy going forward, Immigration Minister Michael Wood announced today. “Since becoming Minister, a reoccurring message I have heard from migrants is the feeling their voice has often been missing around policy ...7 hours ago
- State Highway 3 project to deliver safer journeys, better travel connections for TaranakiConstruction has begun on major works that will deliver significant safety improvements on State Highway 3 from Waitara to Bell Block, Associate Minister of Transport Kiri Allan announced today. “This is an important route for communities, freight and visitors to Taranaki but too many people have lost their lives or ...9 hours ago
- Ginny Andersen appointed as Minister of PolicePrime Minister Chris Hipkins has today appointed Ginny Andersen as Minister of Police. “Ginny Andersen has a strong and relevant background in this important portfolio,” Chris Hipkins said. “Ginny Andersen worked for the Police as a non-sworn staff member for around 10 years and has more recently been chair of ...1 day ago
- Government confirms vital roading reconnectionsSix further bailey bridge sites confirmed Four additional bridge sites under consideration 91 per cent of damaged state highways reopened Recovery Dashboards for impacted regions released The Government has responded quickly to restore lifeline routes after Cyclone Gabrielle and can today confirm that an additional six bailey bridges will ...1 day ago
- Foreign Minister Mahuta to meet with China’s new Foreign MinisterForeign Minister Nanaia Mahuta departs for China tomorrow, where she will meet with her counterpart, State Councillor and Foreign Minister Qin Gang, in Beijing. This will be the first visit by a New Zealand Minister to China since 2019, and follows the easing of COVID-19 travel restrictions between New Zealand and China. ...1 day ago
- Education Ministers from across the Pacific gather in AotearoaEducation Ministers from across the Pacific will gather in Tāmaki Makaurau this week to share their collective knowledge and strategic vision, for the benefit of ākonga across the region. New Zealand Education Minister Jan Tinetti will host the inaugural Conference of Pacific Education Ministers (CPEM) for three days from today, ...1 day ago
- State Highway 5 reopens between Napier and Taupō following Cyclone GabrielleA vital transport link for communities and local businesses has been restored following Cyclone Gabrielle with the reopening of State Highway 5 (SH5) between Napier and Taupō, Associate Minister of Transport Kiri Allan says. SH5 reopened to all traffic between 7am and 7pm from today, with closure points at SH2 (Kaimata ...1 day ago
- Special Lotto draw raises $11.7 million for Cyclone Gabrielle recoveryInternal Affairs Minister Barbara Edmonds has thanked generous New Zealanders who took part in the special Lotto draw for communities affected by Cyclone Gabrielle. Held on Saturday night, the draw raised $11.7 million with half of all ticket sales going towards recovery efforts. “In a time of need, New Zealanders ...2 days ago
- Government delivers a $3 million funding boost for Building Financial Capability servicesThe Government has announced funding of $3 million for providers to help people, and whānau access community-based Building Financial Capability services. “Demand for Financial Capability Services is growing as people face cost of living pressures. Those pressures are increasing further in areas affected by flooding and Cyclone Gabrielle,” Minister for ...4 days ago
- Education New Zealand | Manapou ki te Ao – new Chair and memberMinister of Education, Hon Jan Tinetti, has announced appointments to the Board of Education New Zealand | Manapou ki te Ao. Tracey Bridges is joining the Board as the new Chair and Dr Therese Arseneau will be a new member. Current members Dr Linda Sissons CNZM and Daniel Wilson have ...4 days ago
- Scholarships honouring Ngarimu VC and the 28th (Māori) Battalion announcedFifteen ākonga Māori from across Aotearoa have been awarded the prestigious Ngarimu VC and 28th (Māori) Battalion Memorial Scholarships and Awards for 2023, Associate Education Minister and Ngarimu Board Chair, Kelvin Davis announced today. The recipients include doctoral, masters’ and undergraduate students. Three vocational training students and five wharekura students, ...4 days ago
- Appointment of Judge of the Court of Appeal and Judge of the High CourtHigh Court Judge Jillian Maree Mallon has been appointed a Judge of the Court of Appeal, and District Court Judge Andrew John Becroft QSO has been appointed a Judge of the High Court, Attorney‑General David Parker announced today. Justice Mallon graduated from Otago University in 1988 with an LLB (Hons), and with ...4 days ago
- NZ still well placed to meet global challengesThe economy has continued to show its resilience despite today’s GDP figures showing a modest decline in the December quarter, leaving the Government well positioned to help New Zealanders face cost of living pressures in a challenging global environment. “The economy had grown strongly in the two quarters before this ...4 days ago
- Western Ring Route CompleteAucklanders now have more ways to get around as Transport Minister Michael Wood opened the direct State Highway 1 (SH1) to State Highway 18 (SH18) underpass today, marking the completion of the 48-kilometre Western Ring Route (WRR). “The Government is upgrading New Zealand’s transport system to make it safer, more ...4 days ago
- Briefings to Incoming MinistersThis section contains briefings received by incoming ministers following changes to Cabinet in January. Some information may have been withheld in accordance with the Official Information Act 1982. Where information has been withheld that is indicated within the document. ...4 days ago
- Teaming up for a stronger, more resilient FijiAotearoa New Zealand Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta reaffirmed her commitment to working together with the new Government of Fiji on issues of shared importance, including on the prioritisation of climate change and sustainability, at a meeting today, in Nadi. Fiji and Aotearoa New Zealand’s close relationship is underpinned by the Duavata ...5 days ago
- Investment in blue highway a lifeline for regional economies and cyclone recoveryThe Government is delivering a coastal shipping lifeline for businesses, residents and the primary sector in the cyclone-stricken regions of Hawkes Bay and Tairāwhiti, Regional Development Minister Kiri Allan announced today. The Rangitata vessel has been chartered for an emergency coastal shipping route between Gisborne and Napier, with potential for ...5 days ago
- Next steps developing clean energy for NZThe Government will progress to the next stage of the NZ Battery Project, looking at the viability of pumped hydro as well as an alternative, multi-technology approach as part of the Government’s long term-plan to build a resilient, affordable, secure and decarbonised energy system in New Zealand, Energy and Resources ...5 days ago
- Statement from the Prime Minister on Stuart NashThis morning I was made aware of a media interview in which Minister Stuart Nash criticised a decision of the Court and said he had contacted the Police Commissioner to suggest the Police appeal the decision. The phone call took place in 2021 when he was not the Police Minister. ...6 days ago
- CPTPP Trade Ministers coming to AucklandThe Government’s sharp focus on trade continues with Aotearoa New Zealand set to host Trade Ministers and delegations from 10 Asia Pacific economies at a meeting of Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) Commission members in July, Minister for Trade and Export Growth Damien O’Connor announced today. “New Zealand ...6 days ago
- Govt approves $25 million extension for cyclone-affected businesses$25 million boost to support more businesses with clean-up in cyclone affected regions, taking total business support to more than $50 million Demand for grants has been strong, with estimates showing applications will exceed the initial $25 million business support package Grants of up to a maximum of $40,000 per ...6 days ago
- More than 160,000 new Kiwis to call NZ home80 per cent of 2021 Resident Visas applications have been processed – three months ahead of schedule Residence granted to 160,000 people 84,000 of 85,000 applications have been approved Over 160,000 people have become New Zealand residents now that 80 per cent of 2021 Resident Visa (2021RV) applications have been ...6 days ago
- Scholarships propel Kiwi students to NASAThe Government continues to invest in New Zealand’s burgeoning space industry, today announcing five scholarships for Kiwi Students to undertake internships at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in California. Economic Development Minister Stuart Nash congratulated Michaela Dobson (University of Auckland), Leah Albrow (University of Canterbury) and Jack Naish, Celine Jane ...6 days ago
- New Zealand to attend regional security meeting in AustraliaThe Lead Coordination Minister for the Government’s Response to the Royal Commission’s Report into the Terrorist Attack on the Christchurch Mosques travels to Melbourne, Australia today to represent New Zealand at the fourth Sub-Regional Meeting on Counter-Terrorism and Transnational Security. “The Government is committed to reducing the threat of terrorism ...6 days ago
- Health and safety action plan for portsThe health and safety practices at our nation’s ports will be improved as part of a new industry-wide action plan, Workplace Relations and Safety, and Transport Minister Michael Wood has announced. “Following the tragic death of two port workers in Auckland and Lyttelton last year, I asked the Port Health ...6 days ago
- Bikes and scooters to be exempt from FBTBikes, electric bikes and scooters will be added to the types of transport exempted from fringe benefit tax under changes proposed today. Revenue Minister David Parker said the change would allow bicycles, electric bicycles, scooters, electric scooters, and micro-mobility share services to be exempt from fringe benefit tax where they ...1 week ago
- Foreign Affairs Minister to reaffirm our close relationship with FijiForeign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta will hold bilateral meetings with Fiji this week. The visit will be her first to the country since the election of the new coalition Government led by Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Sitiveni Rabuka. The visit will be an opportunity to meet kanohi ki ...1 week ago
- New legislation to streamline Cyclone recoveryThe Government is introducing the Severe Weather Emergency Legislation Bill to ensure the recovery and rebuild from Cyclone Gabrielle is streamlined and efficient with unnecessary red tape removed. The legislation is similar to legislation passed following the Christchurch and Kaikōura earthquakes that modifies existing legislation in order to remove constraints ...1 week ago
- Cost of living package: More bread and butter support for Kiwi familiesApproximately 1.4 million people will benefit from increases to rates and thresholds for social assistance to help with the cost of living Superannuation to increase by over $100 a pay for a couple Main benefits to increase by the rate of inflation, meaning a family on a benefit with children ...1 week ago
- Freeing up more government bandwidth and money to focus on the cost of living$1 billion in savings which will be reallocated to support New Zealanders with the cost of living A range of transport programmes deferred so Waka Kotahi can focus on post Cyclone road recovery Speed limit reduction programme significantly narrowed to focus on the most dangerous one per cent of state ...1 week ago
- State of National Emergency to end for Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s BayThe remaining state of national emergency over the Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay regions will end on Tuesday 14 March, Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty announced today. Minister McAnulty gave notice of a national transition period over these regions, which will come into effect immediately following the end of the ...1 week ago
- Government delivers on Dawn Raids commitmentThe Government is today delivering on one of its commitments as part of the New Zealand Government’s Dawn Raids apology, welcoming a cohort of emerging Pacific leaders to Aotearoa New Zealand participating in the He Manawa Tītī Scholarship Programme. This cohort will participate in a bespoke leadership training programme that ...1 week ago
- New plan to increase productivity and high wage jobs across advanced manufacturing sectorIndustry Transformation Plan to transform advanced manufacturing through increased productivity and higher-skilled, higher-wage jobs into a globally-competitive low-emissions sector. Co-created and co-owned by business, unions and workers, government, Māori, Pacific peoples and wider stakeholders. A plan to accelerate the growth and transformation of New Zealand’s advanced manufacturing sector was launched ...1 week ago
- Aotearoa New Zealand supports Pacific countries to combat animal disease New Zealand will provide support for Pacific countries to prevent the spread of harmful animal diseases, Associate Minister of Agriculture Meka Whaitiri said. The Associate Minister is attending a meeting of Pacific Ministers during the Pacific Week of Agriculture and Forestry in Nadi, Fiji. “Highly contagious diseases such as African ...2 weeks ago
- Government delivers better public transport for ChristchurchThe Public Transport Futures project will deliver approximately: 100 more buses providing a greater number of seats to a greater number of locations at a higher frequency Over 470 more bus shelters to support a more enjoyable travel experience Almost 200 real time display units providing accurate information on bus ...2 weeks ago
- Minister praises education heroes in cyclone damaged regionsAll but six schools and kura have reopened for onsite learning All students in the six closed schools or kura are being educated in other schools, online, or in alternative locations Over 4,300 education hardpacks distributed to support students Almost 38,000 community meals provided by suppliers of the Ka Ora ...2 weeks ago
- How can Australia pay $368 billion for new submarines? Some of the money will be created from thin a...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Australia’s decision to buy three nuclear-powered submarines and build another eight is so expensive that, for the A$268 billion to $368 billion price tag, we could give a million dollars ...37 mins ago - Australia’s 116 new coal, oil and gas projects equate to 215 new coal power stationsSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard Denniss, Adjunct Professor, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Australia has 116 new coal, oil and gas projects in the pipeline. If they all proceed as planned, an extra 1.4 billion tonnes of greenhouse gases would be released into ...1 hour ago
- Chris Hipkins and Justin Trudeau discuss 'shared priorities'
Prime Minister Chris Hipkins spoke with his Canadian counterpart Justin Trudeau this afternoon. ...2 hours ago - Public Sector Managers Growing At Twice The Rate Of Frontline Workers
Figures unearthed by the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union reveal that the growth in public sector managers is almost twice that of frontline social, health and education workers. Since 2017, the frontline workforce for social services, health and education ...2 hours ago - What Australia could learn from New Zealand about Indigenous representationSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dominic O’Sullivan, Adjunct Professor, Faculty of Health and Environmental Sciences, Auckland University of Technology, and Professor of Political Science, Charles Sturt University A referendum will be held later this year to enshrine a First Nations’ Voice to Parliament into the Australian constitution. ...2 hours ago
- Taoist rituals via video call and Tarot readings over WeChat: China’s spiritual market is going di...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Haoyang Zhai, PhD Candidate, The University of Melbourne Alexander Schimmeck/Unsplash Since its inception in 1921, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has officially promoted an atheist and materialist ideology. But belief systems in China are making a comeback – and ...3 hours ago
- Scott Robertson appointed the next All Black coach (after the current one)
Scott Robertson has been announced successor to Ian Foster as head coach of the All Blacks, completing a controversial and highly idiosyncratic appointment process. He will assume the role in 2024, following the world cup at the end of this year. The contract for the breakdancing current coach of the ...3 hours ago - Concerns Expressed For Anti-Trans Activist Plans For New Zealand VisitMulticultural New Zealand (MNZ) has expressed concern about events scheduled to take place in Auckland and Wellington on March 25th and 26th, respectively. The events will feature British anti-transgender activist, Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull. MNZ is ...3 hours ago
- Race Relations Day To Focus On Empowering Inspirational Leadership From YouthRace Relations Day is celebrated annually in New Zealand on March 21st to promote and celebrate diversity, inclusivity, and harmony among different cultural, ethnic, and religious groups. As part of Race Relations Day 2023, Multicultural New Zealand ...3 hours ago
- Mayor Wayne Brown’s Comments Concerning Says Library AssociationAuckland Mayor Wayne Brown’s suggestion to make council budget cuts by reducing staffing hours and replacing librarians and library assistants with volunteers is concerning says New Zealand’s library association. “Limiting access to the valued ...3 hours ago
- Google and Microsoft are bringing AI to Word, Excel, Gmail and more. It could boost productivity for...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mohiuddin Ahmed, Senior Lecturer in Cyber Security, Edith Cowan University Shutterstock Google and Microsoft are on a mission to remove the drudgery from computing, by bringing next-generation AI tools as add-ons to existing services. On March 16, Microsoft announced an ...3 hours ago
- Wayne Brown’s interviews since being elected mayor, rankedThe Auckland mayor’s decision to keep the media at arm’s length makes every interview he does grant a rare and exciting event, like a new Avatar movie. Stewart Sowman-Lund ranks them all from least to most exciting. Wayne Brown has a well-reported lack of affection for the media. In his ...4 hours ago
- Papuan liberation group calls for more ‘serious’ global efforts to end violenceTabloid Jubi in Jayapura The United Liberation Movement for West Papua (ULMWP) has called on the international community to “pay serious attention” to the escalated violence happening in West Papua. Head of ULMWP’s legal and human rights bureau, Daniel Randongkir, said that since the West Papua National Liberation Army (TPNPB) ...4 hours ago
- IPCC report: world must cut emissions and urgently adapt to climate realitiesANALYSIS: By Bronwyn Hayward, University of Canterbury This decade is the critical moment for making deep, rapid cuts to emissions, and acting to protect people from dangerous climate impacts we can no longer avoid, according to the latest report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). The synthesis report ...4 hours ago
- Labour now leads National across five pollsAcross five of the latest polls for which results are published, Labour now has an edge over National. A new Talbot Mills poll, as reported by the Herald, has Labour up four points to 37%, with National down two points to 34%. The results, which draw on fieldwork across the first ...5 hours ago
- WWF Calls For The Government To Accelerate Action To Phase-out Fossil Fuels, Slash Emissions, And Re...Statement from Dr Kayla Kingdon-Bebb, WWF-New Zealand CEO Today's IPCC’s Sixth Assessment Synthesis Report (AR6) highlights that an accelerated phase-out of fossil fuels is the best way to avoid the planet overshooting 1.5°C and risking total climate ...5 hours ago
- A day in the life of a children’s librarianThe first in a two-part series revealing insights into the working life of a librarian. For privacy reasons, all names – including place names – have been changed. Te Whare Pukapuka o Poutama is a composite library. It’s 9.30AM on a mid-January Monday, high summer, school holidays. Kaitiaki Pukapuka ...5 hours ago
- Our mysterious night parrot has terrible vision – but we discovered it might be able to hear like...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elen Shute, Researcher, Flinders University One bird bucks the stereotype of Australia’s raucous parrots – the mysterious and critically endangered night parrot (Pezoporus occidentalis). Rather than flying around in noisy flocks or eating fruit in trees, the night parrot roosts all day ...5 hours ago
- No, gamblers don’t ‘need’ cash. Our research isn’t an argument against cashless gaming refor...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sally Gainsbury, Deputy Director, Gambling Treatment and Research Clinic, Senior Lecturer, School of Psychology, University of Sydney shutterstock The Perottett government’s promise to introduce mandatory “cashless gambling” in New South Wales by 2028 – something for which anti-gambling activists and public-health ...5 hours ago
- Funding For Roads At Lowest Levels In A DecadeLocal Government New Zealand (LGNZ) is warning that the state of our roads could be the next infrastructure crisis if the Government does not adequately fund maintenance costs. LGNZ commissioned a report by one of the country’s leading economists, Brad ...5 hours ago
- Police Minister Ginny Andersen vows to focus on community safetyGinny Andersen, who was named in the role yesterday, says she will be working every day to make sure New Zealanders feel safer. ...5 hours ago
- Consumer Pulse: Kiwis Tighten Spend As They Face Financial StressToday Canstar is proud to release its second Consumer Pulse report, which delves into the financial worries, hopes and dreams of more than 20,000 New Zealanders over the past two years. The report, released annually, tracks Kiwis’ finances and reveals ...5 hours ago
- Australia’s electric vehicle numbers doubled last year. What’s the impact of charging them on a ...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Thara Philip, E-Mobility Doctoral Researcher, The University of Queensland The number of electric vehicles (EVs) in Australia doubled in 2022 and Tesla’s Model 3 emerged as the best-selling mid-size car, the first time an EV has held this title. Despite these headlines, ...6 hours ago
- A Greyhound Will Face Full Tail Amputation Following A Race Meeting In ChristchurchSAFE is again urging the Government to ban greyhound racing sooner rather than later, following a raft of severe injures in Christchurch yesterday. Sugar rose suffered a severe tail injury yesterday at Addington raceway. Her tail was partially amputated ...6 hours ago
- PM Chris Hipkins speaks to media after visiting his old primary schoolPrime Minister Chris Hipkins is speaking to media following a visit to his old primary school. ...6 hours ago
- Industry Lobbying Influence A Major Brake On Government Action – GreenpeaceIn the wake of revelations that Chris Hipkins' chief of staff, Andrew Kirton, lobbied against the Container Return Scheme on behalf of the liquor industry shortly before the scheme was scrapped by the Prime Minister, Greenpeace is calling for the scheme ...6 hours ago
- Why peace negotiations haven’t gained any traction in the Ukraine war – and how the stalemate co...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Komesaroff, Professor of Medicine, Monash University Libkos/AP/AAP A year after Russia’s invasion, Ukraine is in ruins. At least 8,000 civilians have died, with millions displaced. Generations of infrastructure have been destroyed. Large tracts of the environment and agricultural land ...6 hours ago
- Watch live: PM Chris Hipkins speaks to media after visiting his old primary schoolPrime Minister Chris Hipkins is speaking to media following a visit to his old primary school. ...6 hours ago
- The Opportunities Party Announces A $1.5b Investment In Our Future Generations With The Teal DealThe Opportunities Party have proposed a new Teal Deal between taxpayers and young Kiwis - which includes fully-funded healthcare and public transport, and a Kiwisaver kickstarter in exchange for national civic service. Raf Manji, Leader of The Opportunities ...7 hours ago
- Why is it so hard to combine biking with public transport in Auckland?There are plenty of practical ways the city could make multi-modal transport more accessible – but have they all been consigned to the too-hard basket? How can Auckland start mitigating its impact on the climate crisis? Our biggest city’s sustainable solution must start with transport, its number one source of ...7 hours ago
- Parliament Must Seize Chance To Unlock Natural Health Products’ Billion-dollar PotentialLong overdue legislation to unlock the economic and export potential of natural health products must not accidentally add more red tape that harms the growing sector and consumers, industry body Natural Health Products New Zealand told Members of ...7 hours ago
- Bryce Edwards’ Political Roundup: Shining a bright light on lobbyists in politicsAnalysis by Dr Bryce Edwards. Political Roundup: Shining a bright light on lobbyists in politics Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Four out of the five people who have held the top role of Prime Minister’s Chief of Staff since 2017 have been lobbyists. That’s a fact that should worry anyone who ...7 hours ago
- Chernobyl was history’s worst nuclear disaster. Now it’s teaching geologists about the history o...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Denis Fougerouse, Research Fellow, School of Earth and Planetary Sciences and The Institute for Geoscience Research (TIGeR), Curtin University Shutterstock Thirty-seven years ago, on April 26 1986, the reactor of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant suffered a catastrophic meltdown. In ...7 hours ago
- NZ Chiropractors Voice Opposition To Therapeutic Products BillThe New Zealand Chiropractors’ Association (NZCA) will today (21st March 2023) tell Parliament’s Health Select Committee that the profession opposes the proposed Therapeutic Products Bill in its entirety in its present form and in particular its ...7 hours ago
- The Bulletin: Multiple options for avoiding worst of climate breakdownThe final Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report on the climate crisis came out this morning. The report contains no new science but is a summary of eight years of research by hundreds of scientists and the last three IPCC reports published in August 2021, February and April 2022 ...8 hours ago
- Police accept IPCA report into incident at Tauranga CourtBay of Plenty District Commander Superintendent Tim Anderson: Police accept the findings by the Independent Police Conduct Authority into an incident involving an officer who tasered a man in the cells at Tauranga District Court in February 2019. ...8 hours ago
- Womad review: Summer finally gets a festival worth shouting aboutFew festivals have escaped the summer of 2023 unscathed. Before the sun blessed Womad with a rare guest appearance, the Taranaki festival got a drenching too. According to my pink and blue wristband, we were partying like it was “2022”. That was the first sign that things haven’t been going ...8 hours ago
- https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2303/S00159/.htm...8 hours ago
- PVA To Appear At The Health Select Committee Today To Express ‘Grave Concern’ About Therapeutic ...Patient Voice Aotearoa’s Dr Malcolm Mulholland will today at 3.30 appear before the Health Select Committee to voice opposition to parts of the Therapeutic Products Bill on behalf of Kiwi patients. “The Bill threatens to obstruct access to unfunded ...8 hours ago
- Banking Union Calls For Levy On Bank ProfitsFIRST Union, the union for bank workers across New Zealand, is supporting calls for an immediate inquiry into bank profits and proposing a levy on excess profits to fund the establishment of a Ministry of Green Works . The March 2023 KPMG Financial ...8 hours ago
- Prime Minister Chris Hipkins responds to revelations chief of staff led lobbying firmPrime Minister Chris Hipkins says there is a need for "transparency and vigilance" around lobbyists and their relationships with politicians. ...9 hours ago
- IPCC report: the world must cut emissions and urgently adapt to the new climate realitiesSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bronwyn Hayward, Professor of Politics, University of Canterbury Earth Negotiations Bulletin, CC BY-ND This decade is the critical moment for making deep, rapid cuts to emissions, and acting to protect people from dangerous climate impacts we can no longer avoid, ...9 hours ago
- Why isn’t cervical screening free for everyone?There is a growing campaign to remove the costs associated with cervical screening in Aotearoa. Alex Casey explains. What’s all this then? In July, Aotearoa is getting a big shiny new cervical screening programme after years and years and years of delays. The dreaded three-yearly smear test will be exchanged ...10 hours ago
- Satellites and space junk may make dark night skies brighter, hindering astronomy and hiding stars f...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jessica Heim, PhD researcher, University of Southern Queensland ESA Since time immemorial, humans around the world have gazed up in wonder at the night sky. The starry night sky has not only inspired countless works of music, art and poetry, ...10 hours ago
- Labor is odds-on for a narrow victory in NSW election, but it is far from a sure betSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andy Marks, Pro Vice-Chancellor, Strategy, Government and Alliances, Western Sydney University Bianca de Marchi/AAP A gambler would probably feel the odds favour a Labor win at the upcoming New South Wales election. But, as Scott Morrison proved in 2019, underdog ...10 hours ago
- How bad is vaping and should it be banned?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nicole Lee, Professor at the National Drug Research Institute (Melbourne), Curtin University nery zarate/unsplash, CC BY-SA Vaping regularly makes headlines, with some campaigning to make e-cigarettes more available to help smokers quit, while others are keen to see vaping products ...10 hours ago
- NZ universities are not normal Crown institutions – they shouldn’t be ‘Tiriti-led’Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dominic O’Sullivan, Adjunct Professor, Faculty of Health and Environmental Sciences, Auckland University of Technology, and Professor of Political Science, Charles Sturt University Shutterstock As part of its aspiration to be “Tiriti-led”, the University of Otago has embarked on a consultation ...10 hours ago
- Gen Z grew up in a world filled with ugly fashion – no wonder they love their CrocsSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emily Brayshaw, Honorary Research Fellow, University of Technology Sydney 1MilliDollars/Unsplash In 2017, Julia Hobbs of British Vogue declared Crocs “have an unrivalled ability to repel onlookers and induce sneers”. But over the two decades since the notoriously ugly shoes were ...10 hours ago
- Is it time for more transparency on lobbyists?A new investigation on the role of lobbyists raises fresh questions about whether we need better disclosure of who they are and who they work for, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...11 hours ago
- Why Grater Goods is using equity crowdfunding to expandFlip Grater decided to give up her career in music to pursue her other passion of vegan delicatessens. Now, her meat-free versions of chorizo, pastrami, and turkey have launched her business and landed her products in foodstuffs supermarkets. She talks to Simon Pound about Grater Goods’ rapid success, and expanding ...11 hours ago
- IPCC Report Shows 2023 Is A ‘Now Or Never’ Climate Election“This is it; 2023 will be the last opportunity New Zealand has to get a government that will confront the climate emergency with the urgency it demands,” says the Green Party’s co-leader and climate change spokesperson, James Shaw. Speaking after ...12 hours ago
- IPCC Report A Wake-up Call For Hipkins As Climate Election ApproachesToday the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the IPCC, released its ‘synthesis report’, summarising six previous reports. Greenpeace says that the latest report confirms the industrial drivers of climate change, its dire planetary impacts, and ...12 hours ago
- Prime Minister’s chief of staff Andrew Kirton led lobbying firm that fought against reforms now bi...Prime Minister's chief of staff came directly from leading a lobbying firm that argued against alcohol reforms that have now been ditched. ...12 hours ago
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Well said weka, MacLennan, Rodgers, Turei and all those who speak truth to power about poverty and our dysfunctional wlefare system.
And THIS:
Journalists probably think they are thinking for themselves. But from where I sit, it looks frustratingly like they have a hive mind, building their own reality between them.
They start promoting one untruth, or debatable point e.g. Turei made a mistake or didn’t control the narrative – putting it all on her. Then they all keep repeating it as if it was an incontestable truth – and it becomes the untruth of history.
So I repeat MacLennan
I thought Mojo Mathers summed it up with some poignancy a few weeks ago…
“”As disability spokesperson I am hugely aware of how broken and punitive our welfare system has become.”
Mathers did not respond to a question regarding her view of the situation sparked by Clendon and Graham.
“We need to have a conversation about what our welfare system is doing to our poorest, most vulnerable members of society.
“Metiria has tried for years to get this conversation going, all she had left was her story.” ”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95553915/mojo-mathers-backing-metiria-turei-in-wake-of-greens-controversy
Ah…except for one thing Rosemary: It WASN’T her story..even the unctuous John Campbell didn’t entirely buy that after the revelations from the Hartley family…[deleted]. But watch this space as they say, my complaint to the BSA about Campbell’s interview might confirm or disprove that.
And to forestall your inevitable riposte: YES I committed fraud or at least forgery too, in the dim dark past…once, not multiple times. The other big difference between Turei and me is when I realised the effect my shameful behaviour had had on the family (notwithstanding that they would not have known about it but for the police telling them) I apologised most sincerely, and kept on doing so, until two years ago, five years after I resigned from parliament, when I finally decided “enough”
Oh and the other big difference between us was that when I committed forgery I was a roughneck on an oil rig in Taranaki. Turei was a law student. She knowingly breached the Electoral Act, which as every law student is taught, is a cornerstone of our largely unwritten constitution.
[don’t make unsubstantiated allegations of crime. It puts the site at risk, and in this thread it’s blatant trolling. Both are bannable offences. I see that there is something else below where you need your bevhaviour moderated. My suggestion is that you do two things. One is read the Policy and About. The other is take some time to learn the culture of The Standard. It’s not a free-for-all. Take a week off to have a think about it. – weka]
What?
A well paid oil rig worker is to be cut slack for doing stuff much more odious than anything done by a struggling student – who is to be tarred, feathered and damned…. because oil rig worker?
Well, if I could understand what the hell you are saying I might be able to respond…
but as it happens, I think the Electoral Act is rather important, and any breaches of it pretty serious…but hey, I’m just a broken arse lawyer from Kaukapakapa…
You forgot toadd, living in poverty. Your failure to recognise your own privilege is mind boggling.
David Garrett said:
“It is important to remember that at the time, Turei was a law student. When I became one in 1988 I was acutely aware that I had a terrible and shameful secret that could do me great harm – a false passport obtained four years earlier, but never used. I took legal advice on what to do – my preference was to confess, but the advice was that to do so was unnecessary, and would almost certainly lead to my being prosecuted. I was advised to destroy the damn thing and hope for the best, which I duly did (My bold)
Turei took a very different path.”
Indeed she did.
[if you are going to cut and paste someone’s words, please link or cite. People have been moderated for this. – weka]
Robert G: So you read Kiwiblog…Good on you…I wouldn’t advertise that fact over here too much though chum, not if I were you…
Step 2 after concealment is deflect. Still some work to do on faking sincerity David.
Robert reads it so I don’t have to. I’m grateful for that.
Then, people like you come and regurgitate the things you read there, ad nauseam, a flaccid pretence if ever there was one.
Do you deny that the Social Security Act breaches the BoRA?
“Chum”?
Fortunately for me, David, you are not me, evidenced by our vastly differing views on Metiria and her actions. I wonder why you think I oughtn’t mention here that I’ve read some Kiwiblog posts? Do you think the others here so fickle that they’d send me to Coventry for doing such a thing? How odd your view of TS commenters!
One comment you made on Kiwiblog (shall I link it, weka?) really showed, I thought, the depth and value of your views, David, where you wrote:
“But let me ask a question: In your view is “skirt” a sensible name for a child, particularly a girl? (I am not asking whether Ms Turei had the right to name her child thus; of course she did…but should a woman be saddled with that name?) Would you call your son “shirt” or “coat”??”
I thought that comment was one of the most puerile I’d ever read. Others here may believe so too, I can’t know 🙂
Yes. In order to lead the privileged life he has today he lied and destroyed evidence. Apparently taking money to help your family while a law student is worse. WTF
“Apparently taking money to help your family…”
Allegedly, Tracey.
Keep in mind, Turei has denied this.
I hear you weka, only I did open the comment with, “David Garrett said:” and it’s true, he did. The link is to Kiwiblog and I know many find making those offensive. However, so as not to incur the wrath of a moderator, or be accused of fomenting happy mischief, I’ll paste the odious link in future.
You arent even that buddy – just white noise
Marty: Well, if that was aimed at me, at least I identify myself with my comments…but if your name really IS “Marty Mars” then I stand corrected…
But I’m very proud of my legacy…a law that currently has 215 second strikers – all by definition thoroughly bad bastards you wouldn’t want living near you – doing their sentences for serious violent offending without parole…a fraction of the 5500 odd first strikers…and whether or not Winston goes with Labour, that law isn’t going anywhere in a hurry
[read the Policy. The Standard supports people using pseudonyms including where they do that to protect themselves from nasty trolls online – weka]
Good for you. Champion of non evidence based populist law and order measure. And .5% of the country may still love you for it.
It would be funny if your pseudonym was actually someone stealing an identity fraudster’s identity….
But didn’t that individual also claim he had no convictions when he had an overseas assault conviction? While being a spokesman forsomeone on justice? Correct me if I’m wrong.
@David Garrett
With the serious violent offending taking place in our prisons (rapes, assaults and deaths) it’s disappointing your legacy was to ensure more would be incarcerated longer rather than initially ensuring our prisons were of better standing.
Trust a right-winger to be proud of their arse about face approach.
It’s hard enough to be a struggling law student and struggling young mother trying to get skills to get a living income. It would be even harder trying to be a roughneck on an oil rig and a struggling young mother at the same time.
Your comparison doesn’t stand up, sit up, or fall down – it just don’t compute,
so leave mothers alone, especially ones that are trying to get away from the constant difficulties and poverty that unskilled parents often experience.
Well said. When Garrett starts outting Bennett and any other former beneficiaries in parliament I may take notice. Til then he is selecting who to chastise. There is NO way Bennett never broke a single WINZ rule. Why? Cos almost every single beneficiary and non beneficiary does. In the beneficiary’s case they do it to get a life. People like Garrett and me, we do or pay cash for services/work to get our hols to fiji. So righteous.
Apparently defrauding the revenue is fine if you have a job when you do it but not if a beneficiary…
Mr.Garrett, when history’s gaze passes over you in years to come, what do you think will be found?
Think carefully.
A fearless spokesperson for truth? A committed thinker, keen to always carefully weigh each fact and nuance before making a public pronouncement? A respectful person, who values all human life and recognises and accepts and respects diversity? A person capable of honest self examination?
I have no interest in your opinion of Meteria Turei. None at all.
What I do have interest in is your opinions on the place of people with disabilities.
Kiwiblog, aka ‘Farrar’s Ferals’, which appears to be your spiritual home, is literally littered with David Garrett’s pontifications on disability.
From whether a disabled child’s life is worth living to the unreasonableness of disabled people asking for the built environment to be accessible. You seem to have a particular beef about mobility parking spaces and accessible toilets.
When I say ‘interest’,I don’t mean it in the ‘lets have a conversation about this’ way, because my time is too precious.
And you are not worth it.
@David Garrett, just go away. Your words are a false representation of facts. Some do what they do for power and greed, others do far less because of hunger and need. Your self-serving narrative is revolting and a blight on every woman and child in this country.
Bill English may be the “winner”, Metiria is a hero.
yep. Turei will work better in fighting poverty outside parliament. We need a flax roots movement for this to gain further traction.
Turei is reported to have been somewhat uncertain about staying much longer in parliament before she made her welfare speech. She was frustrated about little traction from working within the system for change.
Politics doesn’t just happen in parliament. It’s too often an arena of game-playing and theatre, where grass roots democracy is not understood or valued. Real change begins outside the House.
Turei has pointed the direction – now we can follow.
GP MPs usually come from activists, and many return to activism when they leave Parliament: Norman, Bradford, etc.
Green politics partly includes grass roots democracy – where all true democracy begins.
Great way to put it Roy. Not that I see English as a winner 😉
Not winner; “winner”. Them quote marks say all 🙂
There are few politicians that have elicited from me a feeling of love for what the have done. Was it the Dalai Lama who said the world is full of successful people, we need more good people. Or something!
Meteria Turei’s revelation was poorly timed imo.12 months before the election or some months after it would have been a better tactic.Assuming it wasn’t a ‘Captains call’..and everyone was on board,it was a terrible strategic decision that close to an election.Now a long and dedicated career has been destroyed.Great shame ,and a lesson in there,somewhere.
+. Also too early. Until its over, its still ongoing. But since it has been brought up. It was arrogrant. Not the talking about welfare. But the sinner, look at me, I’m head of a political party and a fraudster. Now, yes, I agree with how people up against it are tempted over the line, criminizing the poorest is a sign of dysfunctional societies, people. But what she did was say you all now bless me. Then two mps broke rank and rightly lost for it. So, leave it, if she gets into parliament?! she should resign, not for the fraud, but for the arrogance.
Except she didn’t do those things. I get that some people thought she was arrogant, but they might want to ask themselves why that bothered them when parliament has lots of arrogant MPs. And if you think she should resign over arrogance, why her and not other arrogant MPs? There are some not very pleasant double standards in your argument.
Where did she say bless me? She wanted people to talk about the issues, they did. Whatever you think about her personally, this strategy worked in ways that 15 years of being a good little MP didn’t. So interesting that supposed arrogance is deemed such a terrible thing for her, but it worked.
We agree. It was about her. Her history. Bless her. Take the fraud out, the welfare issue, she still made the campaign about her. Look at me. blah blah I’m la la lala.
At its core it was arrogant. Now, look at any other MP and show me them doing that. It’s she jumped down on the tube tracks and shorted herself, politically shocking and no way to engender trust. Take the two MPs who said enough, they broke rank in a election campaign, also big no no. She put them in the invidious position and all three should be gone. It’s about trust, she is not nor should she be the welfare issue. She became that, and owes the issue to get out the way. Resign. Clear the deck the Greens are bigger than her. Hey in govt we can give her an ambassador placement. Russia?
She didn’t make it about her. The MSM did, and here you are doing the same thing. Read the post, it’s not about Turei, it’s about her act and what that means for poverty and welfare and why the political classes couldn’t handle that an targeted her instead. Just like you are doing now.
You have some problems with her? Fine. But your argument appears to come down to you don’t like her arrogance.
The two MPs broke GP rules. Turei didn’t. That’s why they had to leave the caucus. Turei had to leave because some people think that who she might have had help from 25 years ago is more important than the people literally dying on the streets because we allow welfare bashing. Noting that you are not addressing those issues, but just want to slam Turei instead. This is exactly what the problem is.
Certainty she lives in a nation where politics is dirty, driven by those who distort and divert. She knew that as a party leader for ten years??
Speak to the point. She is not the party. She is not the issue. What other MPs have made a crime an issue? You can’t. You’d like this to be a nice happy place, but its not, its politics and people move on after politics.
Speaking to welfare. I agree it was a good attempt, sure politically I’ll timed, niave, shocking voters is not good anytime in a leader. Leaders need to shepherded, true, hard in the media is jumping all over. Good leaders fed a little out at a time, converse, and yeah she did that.
But in essence, the idea that a crime was a virtue, coupled with me me me, was too easy for the media. And sure the fact she is Maori, a women, and in a highly paid job was just going to invite even more… …then add to be related to a MP… etc etc. She should have known. She could have batted away better.
Welfare bashing does not kill people, its the housing crisis pushing middle nz to pay more for less, a private tax setup by Key, that is pushing people into garages, cars and killing them. The bashers are doing us a favor, they show us how real and nasty the last nine years have been. Give voice to how awful Tories are.
Turei should step aside. Welfare is more of an issue becuase of her, its clearer now to see that crimilizing poor is immoral, unethical, but mostly uneconomic, look a lawyer lost the chance of being a minister because she’d been a beneficiary and spoke up.
“But in essence, the idea that a crime was a virtue”
Give me 3 citations where Turei made benefit fraud a virtue. Be specific. Otherwise you’re just making shit up. You don’t like that she didn’t apologise or whatever, I get it. But at no stage did she say that benefit fraud was a good idea. In fact she said repeatedly that it wasn’t a good idea and the point of her story was to show how people were forced into the situation where they had to do it and that this wasn’t good.
“Welfare bashing does not kill people, its the housing crisis pushing middle nz to pay more for less, a private tax setup by Key, that is pushing people into garages, cars and killing them. The bashers are doing us a favor, they show us how real and nasty the last nine years have been. Give voice to how awful Tories are.”
Wow. Ok, so you endorse bene bashing because it has political value. That certainly explains your view on Turei quite a bit.
Welfare bashing does kill people, because welfare bashing is what National do. Their welfare policies kill people. Do I really need to give examples?
“Turei should step aside”
You do realise she’s not returning to parliament, right?
She had to look after her child, what greater virtue.
[lprent: Statement of fact. In fact a duty that is demanded her by the legal system as the sole legal parent. You get one more chance before I define you as a simple liar and ban you for a long time as being a simpleton troll who lies and cannot back their assertions of fact.
I tend to get irritated with simple minded fuckwits waving their false facts around in our public area like a flasher on speed.
Adding you to the moderation list. You have 24 hours from 1930 to either provide factual examples or apologise to the person you defamed or to get sentenced for your crimes on this site.. ]
[lprent: Banned for 4 months. Commenting here is a two way process in both directions. ]
You need to go and hear her speak about it. Or talk to beneficiaries. Then you will discover where beneficiaries learn to lie. From WINZ when they tell tge truth
” You do realise she’s not returning to parliament, right”
She still needs to admit that she was a naughty ungrateful girl weka, unlike English who will get to be PM
[deleted]
[lprent: Answer https://thestandard.org.nz/metiria-tureis-legacy/#comment-1392256 ]
So you think Turei should not have stood up for beneficiaries and instead protected her career? Why exactly?
No. There is good theatre and bad theatre. She bombed. Left a political vacuum that gave the Labour right ascendancy, Ardern took Labour right to soakup the center. Bad theatre has its efficienardos.
And yet the Greens got poverty and welfare on the table in ways that no-one else has done in my 33 years of voting. As MacLennan points out, without Turei’s personal story their welfare policy would have sank like a stone. Peters would most likely still be in kingmaker position and on the left side arguing against compassionate welfare reform. You are saying that Turei was wrong to stand up for beneficiaries yet you present absolutely no alternative, so I’m guessing that you favour welfare not being transformed (Labour aren’t going to do it).
Greens need to do better at connecting how poverty, inequality, drives pollution too. Poor towns dump sewage in water ways. Hello, Auckland has to turnoff it’s Waikato river take when the dirty water from Cambridge, Hamilton floats by. Poverty is pollution. Pollution of people, communities, society by unaccountable private taxes legislated by Tory parliaments. Instead of tunnelling profits to build nz we buy and sell the same houses to each other at higher and higher prices. Kicking poor into garages, cars, poor keeping warm dumpster dive, buy plastics to keep warm, its all bad.
A year earlier it and maybe she would have disappeared earlier… and who knows Ardern may have stopped talking poverty like she stopped talking climate change. And English would still be denying poverty because John Key.
She collapsed the Green vote – they were nearly out of Parliament. This will go down as one of the most disastrous political stuff ups in New Zealand electoral history.
Such a superficial conclusion.
Politics outside parliament can be as important as what happens inside.
I’ve seen Maori and Pacific people stand with Turei since the whole episode – and a movement is building. A movement is absolutely necessary for social, economic and political change.
It’s not about Turei. There was no oxygen. Media is so right of center in NZ, with cuts, it got worse. Key got free air. The opposition lost all credibility, incapable, unwilling, or just inept… …all gone, except Winston and Shaw, well Nats need Winston and he is already retired on a pension… …Shaw is new blood… ..Key vampire teeth hadn’t gotten around to sucking him dry.
No ‘Sigh’. A media campaign bent on demonisation – on character assassination, “collapsed the Green vote”.
Not assassination, collateral damage. The MSM don’t care if MT comes or goes. The MSM is dying, they care about revenue more than they ever have and ‘GREEN LEADER ADMITS WELFARE FRAUD’ is a jolly good headline. A story that just kept on delivering clickable headlines. Her supporters and mockers alike, we all lapped it up, clicked aplenty.
In some years I fear the man in the street won’t recall a selfless act to shine sunlight on poverty but a benefit fraudster.
We’ve all got skeletons in our closets, regardless of any moral high ground we may hold, a job interview is a poor time to highlight illegal activity. Much better to get the job first.
Lie to get the job you mean…
“Former Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei’s admission of benefit fraud electrified the country and – finally – started a real debate about poverty and our awful treatment of beneficiaries.
In the wake of her confession the Greens soared to 15 per cent in the 1 News-Colmar Brunton poll, their highest-ever result.”
Did you read the piece?
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/09/24/49752/let-2020-be-the-year-of-the-povertyquake
Including this poignant line..
“English won for National the largest share of the votes, but he lost the respect of a wide swathe of the electorate – people who until now might have disagreed with him but regarded him as “fundamentally decent”.
When politicians are dishonest with voters, it diminishes and degrades our democracy.
That should concern all of us”
Obssession blinds the mind. Getting into Parliament is all for so many people.
It is what you then do, or choose to do, or are able to do that really counts. Ignore the peasants if you wish, but there are many of us who cannot and could see that the ignoring that is rife would continue if something dramatic wasn’t done to spark the flaccid comfortable. Metiria bravely fronted up and woke them up to some hard facts. And how they hated that.
Don’t regard the debacle as a completely lost opportunity. The comfortable have had to look around and the strength of their reaction is a measure of how bloody uncomfortable it made them. So we can keep on pressing the boil until the pus comes out now. Because the pressure must be kept up and Dr Metiria just gave us the prescription and know-how.
Our MSM is driven by clicks and ratings. A “Turei committed fraud” headline generated many more clicks than another “NZ families in poverty” story ever could.
This.
But the silver lining is that we are talking about welfare and poverty now too. Not just poverty over there as something that happens to someone else, but poverty as a direct result of government welfare policy and see here are the stories of actual people affected.
“But the silver lining is that we are talking about welfare and poverty now too.”
….and for how many nano-seconds? New Zealand has lost its soul, when Douglas and Prebble committed treason, and allowed to introduce the flawed neo-liberalism model while still members of the Labour Party
The people suffering poverty have been talking about these issues for decades. And long after the crowd have moved on to some other subject we’ll still be talking about it. Lived reality is sorta like that.
Edit – it is a double edged sword telling the stories without the reform.
Actually many stopped talking about it. Well and truly silenced as intended.
I tend to agree with weka that the subject has been talked about more openly – ie in the media
AND imo the subjects have not not been talked about – you know from Sue Bradford, John Minto the various poverty groups and so on. whew, sometimes it seems like that is all we talk about.
You are talking about advocates but they only get intermittent coverage and then get dismissed as rent a mob… I am referring to those living in poverty who might as well as had their tongues ripped out by the system… by Bennetts bullying privacy breaches. But since Turei spoke up it has almost never been out of the media. And that continued with another story yesterday
It is obvious we hang in different circles – on my feeds and in real life I get the stories daily if not more frequently. It is good that the audience has widened now.
Johan you still have your soul though and so do most of the people that come to TS. So use it to refresh yourself and then go out again and do battle for the people with soul against the crazy and the deluded and the forgetful.
Sorry, Weka, I disagree. The people talking about poverty and the failings of the welfare system are exactly the same people who were talking about it before. There have been more stories on social media that will have been read by some people who didn’t know what was happening before, but the effect on most people’s understanding has been minimal.
When Metiria shared her story it did get media coverage that it wouldn’t have got otherwise and at first I thought it was a clever way of highlighting the policy. However, it soon became apparent Metiria and the Green Party communications team had assumed the media would just accept the story as told and not do any investigation themselves. This was incredibly naive considering what we know about dirty politics. The story became about Metiria, not the widespread poverty that is prevalent for those dependant on benefits.
I agree with Graham Cameron’s assessment in this piece:
https://firstwetakemanhattan.org/2017/09/25/election-reflections-nb-potentially-unpopular/
Edit: I just want to add that it is mostly the Green’s benefit reform policy that made me give my party vote to the Green’s and that policy is largely the work of Metiria. I am confident Marama will continue this work.
was fair to think they wouldnt investigate 😉 . They regurgitated Joyces lies for 2 days before realusing it might be false… imaginary tax cits and no door stepping of Key or McCully over tge 11m proven lie about the saudi businessman.
The solo mother and brown woman… now thats who we love to kick…
Even after Bill lied, twice, again a professor annointed him a decent man. Salmond must have known the media would highlight the errant decency line
“The solo mother and brown woman… now thats who we love to kick…”
I wasn’t suggesting the media’s pursuit of Metiria was fair or justified – it certainly was not. What I was trying to say was that it was entirely predictable that the media would do so – in part because she is a brown woman and was a beneficiary. It is deplorable the lengths some journalists will go to destroy someone’s credibility but it isn’t new.
Anne Salmond called Bill English “fundamentally decent” and that qualification is hugely important in the context of discussing Metiria Turei IMHO.
I believe Salmond was referring to the person ‘underneath’ so to speak. It speaks of a belief that people are not intrinsically good or bad but display behaviour & actions that can and is judged (!) as such by others and society at large.
I think it also speaks of redemption – not necessarily in a religious way. People can change their ways, either way.
Think of rehabilitation of convicted criminals and also of restorative justice (and forgiveness) to encourage taking responsibility and being accountable.
This is why the demonising of Metiria Turei was so galling and it was diametrically opposed to the Anne Salmond’s compassion towards fellow human beings in general.
I don’t think it was an “errant decency line” but entirely appropriate and highly accurate and it challenged us to change our point of view.
“Sorry, Weka, I disagree. The people talking about poverty and the failings of the welfare system are exactly the same people who were talking about it before. There have been more stories on social media that will have been read by some people who didn’t know what was happening before, but the effect on most people’s understanding has been minimal.”
I have never seen the mainstream discuss poverty like this in my lifetime. People are talking about middle class people they know talking about poverty like they haven’t heard them talk before. There are people on welfare talking about poverty like they haven’t before. Before the election I couldn’t keep up with the number of MSM articles that were talking about poverty and welfare. Even on TS there is far more discussion and getting to grips with the issues than there was before. I can write about welfare in ways I couldn’t before. I can talk in my community about welfare in ways I couldn’t before.
If one measures what happened over the space of a few months of the election then it looks like a failure. But if one looks it in a longer time span it can be seen as a surge of energy in a long movement. We’ve all been sitting around talking about wanting a movement, and now here’s the potential for one. If Turei’s actions can only be seen in context of the election then we may as well give up and go home. But I’m seeing far wider ripples than that. There is a whole nascent sub-movement around disabled benefices, whose stories are finally being heard and we can finally move on from the mainstream narrative of children as the deserving poor.
I’m not even going to go into it further here because I feel like your comment minimalises what has happened on the ground and in relationships and in people’s hearts in the past 2 months, especially for beneficiaries, and I don’t want to have to argue against that.
All I can say is that in 35 years I’ve never seen anyone stand up for beneficiaries in the way the Greens did, and some of us are taking notice. I hope enough of us are taking notice.
Edit: I just want to add that it is mostly the Green’s benefit reform policy that made me give my party vote to the Green’s and that policy is largely the work of Metiria. I am confident Marama will continue this work.
Whereas I’m hoping that many will continue the work, including Marama, Metiria, the Green MPs, and many people outside of parliament.
I agree. And the stories keep being published post election
https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/western-leader/96992301
In too many cases I feel our poverty related problems extend beyond not enough money. I just put this person’s name into the Tribunal Order search engine.
https://forms.justice.govt.nz/search/TT/
The hefty rent arrears aside, not enough money, ok. But to leave her power account in the name of the organisation providing the subsidised home? To leave the Vision West Community Trust with a bill of $724 to remove her rubbish, a $320 cleaning bill and then not even bother showing up at the hearings?
Our poverty issues are a broader problem than not enough money.
Can you please explain what your point is because I’m not getting it.
Whilst the published story revolves around financial hardship I feel this woman’s inability to be positively engaged in our society extends beyond a shortfall of cash.
So many folk dream of a rental home that costs a third of their benefit. I think being granted one should be met with respect for the opportunity. She stopped paying the rent, stole the community trust’s power while she was there and took off leaving a clean-up bill of over a $1000 for them. I have doubts that an extra $200 a week would of seen her behaving much differently.
More money is an obvious place to start but by itself, in too many cases, I fear all the symptoms of poverty will still be with us. I don’t share this opinion because I’m a bene basher. I choose to live and work in our most impoverished region with our most impoverished people. I share it because I want whatever we do to work.
you’ve got a dirty cheek buddy and zero right to attack that poor woman further – shame on you
Having been around a few tenancies from either side, I’d make these comments.
1. In one of these judgements the landlady acted totally inappropriately kicking her out with no notice and appropriately the landlady got fined.
2. Establishing a account with a power company is pretty damn hard when you don’t have any money or a bad credit record. In one of these cases that is exactly what happened, and I’d guess that it also happened in the case you are referring to. I recently had to establish one after not having a power account for 8 years (that was my partners responsibility) and that was hard enough. I had to get her to vouch for me. I’m 58, have a 6 figure salary, own my own apartment and have a reasonably good credit record apart from a near brush with bankruptcy over a leaky building 9 years ago.
3. Cleanup bills are problematic. Because they are made at the expense of someone who isn’t the person ordering it, seldom scrutinised before the work is done, then they are routinely inflated and excessive. I have been in several rented places where the landlords agent has tried to limit the return of the bond. In the last place 5 years ago I got a crew of cleaners to go through the townhouse at a cost of about $500 and they cleaned everything. None-the-less the letting agents informed me that there would be a cleaning fee of about the same – until I showed them the invoices and told them that would be what went to tenancy tribunal. My conclusion – some ‘cleaning fees’ are just a way to hold on to bond.
4. Looking at the cost for rubbish removal, I struggle to see how $724 could be achieved for almost any level of rubbish possible in a situation with limited money. It looks like a simple letting agent rort to me. But I lack the information to be sure. However I’d love to take p[photos and copy of the invoice around for quotations and comment from waste removal companies.
Basically my opinion is that your opinion is meaningless. You lack any substantive information and that jumping to conclusions on the basis of little to no facts is just the mindless stupidity you’d expect from someone who judges less on facts than they do on bigotry.
“Our poverty issues are a broader problem than not enough money.”
Yes, but once we’ve overcome the fiscal shortfall (correcting a number of related and indirectly related social ills) it frees up resources and makes it more easier to identify those suffering from other broader problems.
I made a comment below which reminded me that Turei could still potentially be charged with fraud. The people who think the Greens didn’t think this through are missing that she risked a lot and knew this right from the start.
“I feel like your comment minimalises what has happened on the ground and in relationships and in people’s hearts in the past 2 months, especially for beneficiaries, and I don’t want to have to argue against that.”
I am very sorry if that is how my comment came across. That was not my intention but I can see why you thought that was what I was saying. I am very aware that those who are, and have been, on a benefit were incredibly grateful that their experiences were being shared and validated.
What I was trying to say was that these conversations have mostly been on social media not in the MSM (apart from an initial flurry). Now I know you disagree about this but I have been doing some research on poverty and as part of this have monitored MSM over the past 2 years. I cannot see an increase in articles related to poverty and the inadequacy of benefits in the MSM now compared to last year or the year before.
If Metiria had not stood down (and I understand why she felt she had no choice) then I think she would have been able to make poverty and the inadequacy of benefits an election issue.The reason she was forced to stand down was because of the way the media decided to make the story about whether she was justified in lying to get more money rather than the inadequacy of the benefit system. I think that this was foreseeable.
I agree with Catriona when she says:
“Political journalists have serious reflection to do on their takedown of Turei.
They decided their job was to dig into who Turei flatted with 25 years ago.
Our country would be a very different – and much better – place if they had instead seen their role as challenging the Minister of Social Development on why benefits are deliberately kept at unliveable levels.”
Unfortunately the nature of MSM now is that most political journalists are only interested in scandal and gotcha moments because of the nature of the MSM in this country. Even Checkpoint, after playing some heartbreaking interviews from beneficiaries, indulged in “how poor were you” questions in that final interview with Metiria.
The problem for me is where we are now – no Metiria in parliament and a much reduced number of Green Party MPs. The result is that it is now going to be much harder to get benefit reform.
I could go into detail about how I think it should have been handled in order to get a better result but there really is no point. I hope the Green Party will be doing this, however.
Welfare reform is something that is urgently needed and something I will continue to push for whenever I get the opportunity.
I just what to add that I do think that the ongoing social media stories are incredibly important and may yet be an effective force for change – for example the stories on #wearebeneficiaries. This wouldn’t have happened without Metiria telling her story.
I am sure Metiria will continue her fight for change outside parliament as will Marama as co-leader (I hope) of the Green Party.
Just discovered this piece from Catherine Delahunty written after the Rally against poverty.
Very sad that we have lost these two Wahine Toa from parliament.
https://womenswritingcollective.co.nz/wahinetoa/2017/9/25/tea-with-metiria-1
thanks Karen, I want to come back to this, just been tied up with some things.
Thanks for clarifying this karen. It will be interesting to see whether the coverage of poverty stories during the 2014 campaign period and earlier campaign coverage (and the next one) are on par with post Turei announcement?
Sorry, I beg to differ with all that commentary but, regardless of the motives, it was a poorly timed and naive move without which the left might have been assuming the Treasury benches sans NZ First.
I’m not arguing with the fact she did it, the fact she wanted to talk about it, the reasons why she wanted to talk about it. All valid. And all necessary. But the timing…..totally misconceived.
and yeah, for once in my life, I am agreeing with David Garrett. Where was the apology? Where was the humility?
Where’s the fcking apology from the overseers of a system that crushes people? Where’s their humility Frida?
Or as David Garrett might say
” “Sincerity – if you can fake that, you’ve got it made.”
George Burns
I thought it was Groucho Marx… Must look it up.
Edit – Yes, Groucho did say it before Burns, but apparently a French guy called Jean Girardoux deserves points for the original quip… in French, dammit!
Bill
+100
Why should I be standing in line, just waiting for bread (when I am a good person and has always tried to be a worker, do the right thing as a citizen)? That’s the theme of the line from the Depression days Yip Harburg song.
Change it slightly – why should a single mother not be given enough money to train, learn and work towards getting a solid respected job and be a good parent. Just the sort of thing that a good country as NZ seems to still think it is, would do for its young people.
But Metiria didn’t get what she needed so she put herself out to make the required money and added it to the money that she was already getting so she could complete, and she did. She didn’t rob anyone. She worked harder and made the opportunity by increasing the tenants in her house. Which provided them with housing and her with needed extra money. And the great NZ class knocking machine comes out with its silver hammer and hits her on the head.
Frida you and all the mean complainers should be apologising to all those young parents who need more than the mean help they get from the authorities. You should be complaining to the authorities who work hard to keep all these people in poverty and many of them in degrading circumstances. Not nit-picking from comfort, or from your own unfortunate circumstances.
The envy and meanness of people who have gone without and accepted it instead of complaining and insisting the authorities provide better, is the most unsettling thing to arise from this. Being proud of putting up with neglect and disdain, is showing false pride. Being proud of asking for fair and decent help definitely would be justified. Miserably resenting someone who broke through is malicious and quite a few yabbered the poor but honest pitch. NZs broken spirits spoke.
The Green Party is built on activism. After Bradford left, came AAAP, left wing think tanks, and ESRA.
After Norman came Greenpeace.
After Turei comes
WeAreBeneficiaries
And the ongoing stories of the NZ state’s inhumanity – the ones the powerful, the MSM and neoliberal pollies don’t want to hear.
but still the stories keep circulating; and still AAAP, Marama Davidson and her south Auckland supporters keep on doing the good work.
After this year’s election we on the left all have work to do! Let’s stop the blame game and get to work for a new direction!
As someone who has always voted left (for more than four decades), I still haven’t totally processed my own feelings about what happened with Metiria’s revelation. But so far I have come back to my initial reaction – it was a dumb move especially as regards the timing and how it was handled.
There did not seem to have been enough thought about the potential consequences and how to manage and/or pre-empt them. In my opinion it was poor political management and the way it unravelled should have been foreseen and mitigated if it couldn’t be prevented.
It’s a big call to stand up and be courageous but we also need to show some smarts. And this time we didn’t.
Yes we are talking more about poverty and that’s a good thing. Yes any chance I got I pointed discussion to the fact that her actions arose because of a welfare system that is deliberately cruel.
But for the moment my feelings about what happened remain conflicted.
This will be talked about way more than
Double Dipton
Lie about a hole
Lie about taxes
Lie about legal advice leading to $11m payout to wealthy businessman
This isnt about lying or arrogance. We need to have more self awareness about who we are when we go beneath the surface.
English admitted there was poverty… 7 weeks ago his party steadfastly claimed it didnt exist in NZ. There is no housing crisis.
Such a tough argument; on principle weka is completely correct, Turei’s effort to front-foot poverty in the Green campaign was both admirable and entirely ethical. And I think it’s fair to say that most if not all commentators from the centre leftwards have agreed with this.
And I sincerely hope that in time the nation may view what subsequently happened to force her resignation a much clearer light.
But a little humility around the dire political consequences is also in order. Those who argue Turei’s ‘confession’ was poorly thought through and even more badly managed have a fair point. The results speak for themselves.
To the membership and her caucus Turei is responsible.
You see no corrolation between the appointment of Ardern and the Greens final position on Saturday? That means effectively that 10% shifted to Labour from Greens cos Turei wasnt contrite enough? We will have to agree to disagree on that.
Adern’s sudden rise and Turei’s assasination occurred pretty much within the same time period, so it’s hard for either of us to disentangle cause and effect here.
But I don’t think anyone can argue the loss of two MP’s, their co-Leader and the relentless attack from the media did the Greens any good either. The only good that came from it was to highlight how very fortunate they were to have Shaw to pick up the pieces.
I have made a post which includes the Green Party results at every election since 1999. This seems to show that when Labour is strong, Greens drop and vice versa.
I am just not as certain as some that Turei’s “behaviour” alone was enough for people to go “fuck it, I am voting Labour”. I think Ardern’s breath of fresh air and relateability had much more to do with drawing back prior Labour voters.
Kennedy Graham’s tenure at the Green’s was duing the weaker labour times btw.
I am sure we can agree to disagree.
As Red Logic says Tracey it hard to differentiate between cause and effect. I think a lot of the support that switched from Labour to the Greens was soft support that had moved across because they didn’t think Labour had much of a chance and they wanted their vote to count somewhere. Along came Jacinda and boom! back they went.
People I spoke to who wrote the Greens off because they were “benefit fraudsters” were unlikely to vote Green anyway. I believe many who wacked us only wanted an excuse but why did we have to hand them the stick?
I think it’s important to note that Metiria got 24% of the vote in Te Tai Tonga – better than any other Green candidate. It seems likely that the Greens would have done better if she’d stayed on as co-leader, though I don’t blame her for dropping out in the face of the sort of attack she was subjected to.
I get what she was trying to do, but she should have got ahead of eventual revelations from the get go. Because, her initial story was so sanctimonious it made any uncovered impropriety (real or perceived) that much more damaging. If she’d admitted to and apologized for electoral fraud and etc* from the get go perhaps the story, about welfare reform, could have stayed on track.
As it was it just looked like /more/ fraud vying for political advantage, to the point that it comes across as vindication of the bene bashers position. “Their biggest advocate is a liar too! See they’re all just lying for there own advantage!”. It’s hard enough to change peoples opinions, might’ve been good to not appear to prove them right…
*etc because I’m not sure of the depth or provability of any other allegations
I don’t disagree with that except that she says that she had forgotten about the electoral roll thing and I believe her. Hard to stay ahead of something you don’t remember.
So yes, I think in hindsight there are things to be learned, but I don’t think they fucked up big time like people are making out.
The other line being run is that she should have paid it back earlier. No-one says when though, but the implication is once she could afford to. So let’s say a couple of years after law school and getting off a benefit she approaches WINZ and says she lied on her forms and was thus overpaid for a number of years and she’d like to pay it back so could the please calculate what she owes. What do you think WINZ would do at that point? The first thing they will do is reassess her benefit from that time, and that will include looking at what her entitlements were and if she committed fraud. If they decide to prosecute her, then that’s her career finished and she’s back to square one and still has a young daughter to raise as a solo parent.
She was also criticised for taking assistance from family. This is the one that really gets me and where John Campbell dropped the ball seriously. The narrative at this point is that the real poor don’t have wealthy family. But we also know that many people in poverty without any other assistance do things like steal, deal drugs, do sex work, or go hungry/end up on the streets. Or lie to WINZ. Catch 22. I do think that Turei and the Greens could have been better prepared on this one and had some push back prepared, but in reality once people get to making judgements about beneficiaries based on their own reckons and life experiences, there is probably no way to win.
If liberal bleeding heart John Campbell thinks it’s ok to frame the debate in terms of real poor people are prostitutes not law students with rich family, then the battle is already lost. I know from my own experience that having a family with wealth who help out when it seems right but who have no real idea about what my life is like that it’s incredibly easy for people to judge from the outside and get it wrong. I also know from being around many other people in similar situations, with and without family. It’s just too hard to get ahead if you don’t have assistance. That’s the whole point and what we’re seeing now is even lefties blaming the Greens for not being good enough, which is pretty much an exact mirror of what happens to beneficiaries all the time.
…we’re seeing now is even lefties blaming the Greens for not being good enough, which is pretty much an exact mirror of what happens to beneficiaries all the time Dead right!
Entrenched inequality has allowed the middle class to take the role of judge and jury over the poor in general, and beneficiaries in particular. Even those who seem to care often talk as if they are speaking of remote cases rather than their fellow human beings. Beneficiaries are even forced to talk about themselves that way if they hope to get an audience from outside of their own circles.
Metiria broke the mold, and offered , horror of horrors, to actually stand up for people in this situation, rather than stay within the safety zone of caring-as-brand. There is no right time or place to jump the conceptual tracks like that, and the Greens lacked the infrastructure to cope with the fallout. However, that fallout has knocked a few masks sideways, not least that of the local media. People blather on about what she should have done differently – they should instead ask themselves what we have become as a country. Aren’t we the people who once protested loudly against apartheid?
All that I totally and whole-heartedly agree with. But the lesson is that if you are going to do something this bold you’d better bloody make sure the back-story is watertight.
Aren’t we the people who once protested loudly against apartheid?
No not any more. Much of that generation have either left NZ or are now a minority of those who are left.
“But the lesson is that if you are going to do something this bold you’d better bloody make sure the back-story is watertight.”
That’s macho politics. The politics of Aunties is that it’s ok to not be perfect. And making mistakes is ok too, it’s what you do next that matters. Being able to respond compassionately to people who make mistakes is important, as is not taking shit from people who are trying to harm.
What you just said is again similar to what beneficiaries have to go through. You say the wrong thing and your benefit gets cut or you have extra hoops to jump through or you get demeaned and judged. It’s the same dynamic. Macho politics, macho welfare.
“Much of that generation have either left NZ or are now a minority of those who are left.”
I wouldn’t have thought so. I was mid teens in 1984, so most protestors are older than me now. That’s the boomers and first Gen Xers. Isn’t that a demographic bulge?
I don’t see that whole”macho” thing in what RedLogix is saying Weka.
To me it’s simple risk management. What could go wrong here, how likely is it to happen and what steps can we take to minimise or eliminate the risks?
If you’re going to go public with such a potentially risky tactic, do your preparation. The back-story wasn’t sound and we got burnt.
The macho thing is that people think it was the GP’s fault that Turei (and the Greens) didn’t hold up under the onslaught.
“If you’re going to go public with such a potentially risky tactic, do your preparation. The back-story wasn’t sound and we got burnt.”
Read Olwyn’s comment again, it’s all there. You are either saying that people have to be infinitely resourceful, or that the Greens shouldn’t have done what they did. I think both those positions are problematic.
People are human not gods or robots. So the judgement should be on how they handle stress and failure and mistakes, not on those tings happening to them. To my mind the Greens and Turei weren’t perfect but they stepped up, endured, sorted themselves out, carried on, and did so all the while staying true to GP principles around relationship and communication. That’s actually a huge feat. There’s been some analysis of this, esp by and about Shaw, including the resources they drew on to manage.
Second thing is the Greens did the right thing with the welfare announcement even if it cost the nominal left. If you want to have a go at something, have a go at the centre left who are still willing to throw beneficiaries under a bus because they’re scared of what mainstream NZ will do. What the Greens and Turei did was incredibly courageous. That it didn’t work out perfectly is way less important than that they stood up for the most vulnerable people in NZ at a time when almost no-one else in positions of privilege was willing to lay it on the line like that. They broke the spell. That spell can only be remade if we let it. This is why I am disappointed with lefties who think the important thing here was how the Greens failed rather than what they succeeded at and how we can build on that.
No, I’m not. The situation was far more nuanced than that.
And going on how things played out it looks to me like it wasn’t done as well as it could have been.
I said earlier I still feel conflicted about these events. I understand how passionately some people feel about what Metiria and the Greens did and I agree totally she was crucified by the media and some sectors of the public. But it is possible to want to see an end to poverty in New Zealand and still have questions about how and why events unfolded as they did.
“And going on how things played out it looks to me like it wasn’t done as well as it could have been.”
We’re just going round in circles. You think they should have done better, I think it’s ok to not be perfect. Until you can demonstrate that there were significant things that they could have foreseen and acted upon with the resources they had i.e. not stuff seen in hindsight, then I can’t see the validity of the argument.
“But it is possible to want to see an end to poverty in New Zealand and still have questions about how and why events unfolded as they did.”
Definitely. Shaw has said the Greens will be going through a review process. Lefties could be doing the same thing, but at the moment, what I’m seeing under a post about Turei’s legacy is people wanting to talk about her failures. I don’t see how that’s helpful (it’s not the same thing about considered inquiry about what happened).
For instance, Red didn’t reflect in what happened, he stated that the Greens should have been better to the point of not making mistakes (that’s what water tight means). There’s nothing wrong with him believing that but if he’s going to bring it up under a post about the importance of breaking the spell about welfare then I am going to question its relevance.
There’s nothing wrong with him believing that but if he’s going to bring it up under a post about the importance of breaking the spell about welfare then I am going to question its relevance.
It’s relevant because it was a mistake that may well have set back the entire conversation about poverty by a decade or so. The left consistently makes this same order of mistake over and over; convinced of the moral superiority of our argument we consistently underestimate the people we’re up against.
But on reflection that was one of CV’s core argument’s too; and I doubt you’ll hear it any better from me than him.
“It’s relevant because it was a mistake that may well have set back the entire conversation about poverty by a decade or so.”
I see you asserting that but I don’t see the argument or evidence. We have multiple people talking about how they’re seeing the conversation about welfare has changed and giving examples.
“The left consistently makes this same order of mistake over and over; convinced of the moral superiority of our argument we consistently underestimate the people we’re up against.”
Again, I’ve put up why I think your argument is wrong. The Greens aren’t right from moral superiority, but from ethics, values and strategy. I’m fairly sure that you don’t understand the strategy yet.
I also think it’s highly unlikely that a party that’s been in parliament for 2 decades is unaware of what they’re up against. I simply don’t see any evidence for your assertion on that being true.
Well the evidence is plain enough to see. The Greens appear to be missing a co-Leader.
So? Turei will leave and go amazing things just like Norman and Hague and others.
Remember when people here were gloating that joyces lie had backfired. It didnt.
“If you want to have a go at something, have a go at the centre left who are still willing to throw beneficiaries under a bus because they’re scared of what mainstream NZ will do.”
And their fear only reinforces the notion there is something to fear. Standing tall and pushing back is the way to show voters there is nothing to fear from improving the treatment of beneficiaries.
“To me it’s simple risk management. What could go wrong here, how likely is it to happen and what steps can we take to minimise or eliminate the risks?”
What makes you think they didn’t do that? Looks to me like they did.
R L and proved again the issue is more important to them than the individual. The opposite will play out at National.
“it’s what you do next that matters” – and what she did was quit, in order to bury whatever story was brewing.
To me politicians and beneficiaries are too different to compare – the concept of not wanting those in power to appear to be inept and the concept of compassion for the poor are practically in different universes.
I kinda like this concept of aunty politics. However, it’s not the political game anyone plays, nor can I recall any politician ever owning their mistakes. Lose the current game, and/or fail to advocate for playing a different game, and all people are going to see is failure.
The Greens do Aunty politics all the time. Shaw admitted the Greens were wrong on immigration, did a whole speech on it during the election campaign. He later apologised about how the Greens had dropped the ball with the fallout from the welfare speech. I’m sure I can think of other examples. This is the fundamental conflict being played out as we speak. The Greens don’t do macho politics and it’s why again and again people get getting it wrong about what the Greens are doing and what they are about.
The reason why the Greens get away with it is because it’s paired with integrity and placing an extremely high importance on values. Also, the relationships are important, so the Greens don’t trash people and everyone is important. They get respect for that.
“To me politicians and beneficiaries are too different to compare – the concept of not wanting those in power to appear to be inept and the concept of compassion for the poor are practically in different universes.”
I’m not comparing politicians and beneficiaries, I’m saying the dynamic of how Turei was treated is remarkably similar to what happens to beneficiaries. It’s wrong.
Of course it’s all bloody wrong; still doesn’t mean it ever made sense to stick her head into the noose without having a clear Plan B. Initially the response to her story was quite positive; it was only when the holes in it were made public and pressure put onto her family that it all unraveled.
Yes this is the dynamic that grinds beneficiaries down, but Turei has years of legal and political experience and all the resources of a significant political party behind her. Not to mention a very real responsibility towards that party.
I’ve said this before; we’re up against a machine that has chopped down four Labour leaders and now a Green one. How many more do we want to see assassinated?
Actually it makes perfect sense to many of us. When you want to have that conversation let me know. But if you want to go down the path of we should all be tougher at macho politics, then I will be resisting because that’s what was used to smack Turei down. As I’ve commented above, the Greens will have their own review. The Left could too, but what I’m seeing here is just expressions of they need to toughen up. I think there are better paths than that, and that it fails because it doesn’t address what happens when people aren’t tough enough. Now we are back to the beneficiaries.
This^^^^^
And we are seeing masculine politics being imposed on the negotiations too. Media public and some politicians alike.
And precisely where did I ever suggest the ‘left needed to toughen up’? Can you produce at least three citations to clearly support that contention?
You keep projecting onto me this idea that I’m promoting ‘masculine politics’ (which is a sexist smear in it’s own right, one that assumes all masculinity is toxic) … when quite clearly I’ve said nothing of the sort. That’s just the usual sort of conclusion you jump to when you see “RedLogix” … your mind reads the words I write through a fixed lens.
In this entire conversation at most I’ve suggested the left could well learn something important from this sad episode with Turei, and we could be a whole lot smarter (NOT tougher) about anticipating our opponents often rather transparent templates.
But that would require a little intellectual honesty and humility … and it seems these are masculine traits which I’m not going to find here.
RedLogix
I think you might agree with my term or phrase which I think should be the slogan for now and that is ‘pragmatic idealism’.
That would have helped Metiria turn her revelations into a powerful positive force for change. She went for the ideal of more consciousness and empathy and fairness and goodwill, all of which are not airy fairy but should be the basis of a caring and vibrant society making its way in the world.
The pragmatic part would come as she and her supporters thought through the process and what the opposition tactics would be. If she had confessed at the beginning that she had to get additional income to carry on with her studies, and care for her baby it would have been wise. And she would have explained about the abatement rate, and that the government locks poor people into their poverty by keeping their allowed earnings rate lower than necessity requires.
This means that the more you try, the more they reduce the benefit they pay, and meanly they take a $ off for every $ you earn, without allowing for extra costs incurred by going to work, and also they then they also remove the usual PAYE tax from earnings. So they reduce the benefit for each dollar you earn, and then take back part of your earnings, so you are hardly better off.
If she had explained this all the attention would have swung to the benefit system as RW tried to prove her wrong. A proper planning meeting of how Metiria’s revelation would be treated, with perhaps some role playing of someone from RW media questioning a person playing Metiria and throwing up the mud they keep in buckets for ‘cheeky Darkies’ and other lesser beings and tactics would have overcome and blunted such attacks.
Instead they allowed her to set herself up as a target like a coconut shy at a fair. She behaved with strength and dignity but it was very sad to see.
@gw
Very well expressed. Your last sentence captures it perfectly; in the end all I could feel was sadness at the whole dismal spectacle.
Your middle paras also captures precisely my own experiences about 18 years ago when I first encountered how beneficiaries are captured by the system and then abused by it. The technical term for what you describe is ‘the poverty trap’.
Thinking about it one night the idea of combining a fixed universal income with a flat PAYE tax rate to produce a clean and progressive tax system with welfare as an endogenous feature occurred to me. For some time after in my own ignorance I imagined I’d invented the idea; but of course the concept of a Universal Income has been around for at least 150 years or more.
But crucially the idea of a UBI combined with a flat (or very slowly progressive) PAYE tax rate … in it’s simplest form … completely eliminates this abusive poverty trap. And that core idea has motivated me for many years.
Of course getting from where we are now, to where us ‘pragmatic idealists’ would like to be can’t be done in one fell swoop. Most people are far too change resistant to accept that; so it has to be done in incremental steps. As with all experiments you have to be honest about what worked and what didn’t. Did it meet your expectations, and what were the unintended consequences? And to be prepared to alter the design as you go along.
But on this I do agree with weka … the aggressive ‘gotcha’ political rules in play at this time pretty much preclude such a nuanced progressive agenda from ever being carried through.
Good to hear your thoughts RedLogix. Many of us have been coming here for ages and discussing and venting and discussing again and referring to links to other people’s discussions. When you’ve been thinking and talking and writing about things for a while and
Under our present democracy though the election occurs and people who have never thought their prejudices through thoroughly just go off and choose the easiest option. It may be that we should have a caretaker government all the time, to watch over the country, and ideas for new laws are decided on by set groups who accept new members who have passed a test after studying the particular problem or behaviour that is to be voted on. Then the effects and benefits will be noted properly and the law be passed after a vote of those interested in government.
Someone told me me about a forty year old woman saying she was not going to vote this election because she just didn’t think she could add anything useful. Bloody wimp. After all these years of trying to get women to a position where they are shown respect and consideration and fairness. (I see Saudi Arabian women will soon be allowed to drive.)
Lazy thoughtless people should have to prove they have a grasp of the situation through passing a serious test. And then interested people will be able to front up to their persecutors face to face as the obssessed will be up for it. Meetings would have to be tightly controlled. But how we can get people to take a responsible interest and vote the charismatic rugby All Black down in favour of useful, dedicated nerdy Josephine Blah – I don’t know.
And half of us supported the tour remember
Thank-you so much for that Olwyn, that’s one of the most socially intelligent things I’ve seen said on the matter in a while and really helpful for me today. So many good things on one comment.
Thanks Weka. Kia kaha. 🙂
Thanks Olwyn. I always enjoy reading your thoughts. Please keep dropping in. I like to see the flag or design of gravatar you use.
Hi greywarshark. 🙂 The gravatar is the Eureka stockade flag.
Hear hear
It’s Google’s 19th birthday, and those from pregoogle days might not have hears of the Eureka stockade in Australia. But it is relevant to us here and now, government and workers tend to be in dispute, and it takes a wise government to handle these fairly, reasonably, and with a win-win approach.
Miners were unable to claim the land on which they worked, and so risked being relocated at a moment’s notice. They were also required by law to buy a licence and carry it with them at all times, or face a fine and arrest. The miners felt this was an unfair system and were prepared to fight for change.
Police invaded the mines to enforce the licensing laws, in late November 1854. The miners refused to cooperate, and burned their licences and stoned police. Several miners were seriously wounded.
http://ergo.slv.vic.gov.au/explore-history/golden-victoria/impact-society/eureka-stockade
To keep the momentum going and to help grow the movement, I hope the Greens and Turei take my free advice and put together a hard hitting commercial (or a range of them) that captures and explicitly illustrates their (beneficiaries) struggle. Ending with a range of high profile New Zealanders saying they stand with Turei – are you with us?
Encouraging people to apply pressure on the Government (whoever that may be) and their local MPs to get in behind.