Most Aussies support Kyoto protocol

Written By: - Date published: 12:13 pm, March 11th, 2008 - 26 comments
Categories: climate change - Tags:

climate-change.jpgThe ABC reports:

“Today Australia becomes an official member of the Kyoto club after the initial ratification documents were lodged with the United Nations 90 days ago.

And a new poll has found that 64 per cent of Australians support Prime Minister Kevin Rudd’s act to ratify the Kyoto protocol to cut greenhouse gas emissions.

The survey of 1,200 people found 7 per cent opposed, with 29 per cent were still undecided.”

Meanwhile – those hot summer days have not just been your imagination. NIWA says it’s been the hottest summer in almost ten years, with the south of the South Island having the sunniest summer on record.

The Principal Climate Scientist at NIWA Jim Salinger says overall it was a warm and dry summer, with the Waikato experiencing half the normal rainfall (RNZ, 10 Mar 2008).

All this suggests that plans like the Climate Change bill are on the right track. And before you ask – here’s a site that will help you identify some ways of living smarter at home.

Update: For an even more international perspective: Global warming threatens to severely destabilise the planet, rendering a fifth of its population homeless, top officials say

26 comments on “Most Aussies support Kyoto protocol”

  1. out of bed 1

    here is another site that will be very helpful
    http://www.greens.org.nz/

  2. insider 2

    What rubbish linking this summer to climate change. It is because we are in a La Nina event.

    The Aussies are great guzzlers of coal and gas. Wonder how this support will look when the CO2 bills start arriving

  3. Steve Pierson 3

    and if you meet any deniers here’s the scientists exploding the denier myths. http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/mg19426041.100

  4. infused 4

    Kyoto is stupid. Look where it has got us. And Steve, I could post a million links against what you posted as well. We’d be here all day going in circles.

  5. Dale 5

    Why dont you report what NEWA actually said.Ths warmest summer in 9 years is due to La Nina. This global warming is absolute nonsence. It suprises me how gullible some people can be. And the Aussies will be pretty pissed off when they discover how much money Kyoto will cost them.

  6. Steve Pierson 6

    Dale. http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/mg19426041.100

    infused. I thought you were smarter than that but sorry, I don’t bother engaging with deniers anymore, there’s so few of you left and your arguments are as bad as ever.

  7. r0b 7

    and if you meet any deniers here’s the scientists exploding the denier myths. http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/mg19426041.100

    And not two comments later – up pops Dale! Is it really nonsense Dale? Why?

  8. Dale 8

    Anyone would think Im denying the holocaust. There are two sides to the science. I find the more credible supports that the changes are natural occurences. The planet has warmed and cooled since its creation. Remember in the seventies some scientisits were predicting global cooling. Al Gores movie has also been proven in a English court to contain so many incorrect statements that it should not be showen to schools.If there is one thing possetive to come from this nonsence is that people might think about the amount of pollution we create. There is plenty of information supporting the fact that CO2 is not the cause of very slight variations in global tempretures.

  9. Dale 9

    Rob and Steve I have just read the link you posted. Yes it sounds convincing but for each claim it makes you can easily find counter claim. There is nothing wrong with reading both sides of the argument. So why dont you give it a go?

  10. r0b 10

    Dale: Anyone would think Im denying the holocaust

    Woh! – Over sensitive? All I said was “Is it really nonsense Dale? Why?”. How do you get from there to the holocaust?

    Rob and Steve I have just read the link you posted.

    Hint for next time – read the source material before commenting.

    Yes it sounds convincing

    It certainly does. So does this one:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/7074601.stm

    and this one:

    Pascal’s Wager on climate change

    and pretty much 98% percent of the scientific literature that you can read of this topic.

    There is nothing wrong with reading both sides of the argument. So why dont you give it a go?

    Oh please. Can I remind you how you entered this thread: “This global warming is absolute nonsence”. Pretty balanced stuff eh. Think before you post Dale.

  11. Sam Dixon 11

    I’ve read tons of denier literature, it’s all bollocks. I would presume Steve and r0b have also read both ‘sides’ (if a smattering of loons and scientists on oil company payrolls really counts as a side) because that’s how you come to a well-founded opinion.

  12. Dale 12

    Yep thats right Sam and the US bombed their own towers.

  13. Billy 13

    Yeah R0b, but I remember when the scientific community were unanimous that civilisation as we know it would end at midnight on 31 December 1999. Government Departments were established. Water and canned food were stored. Microwaves were upgraded. And it was the biggest hoax ever. My 1997 microwave still works fine.

    I expect global warming has occurred. Looking after the planet cannot be wrong. But I am sick of people in homespun jumpers telling me that the end is nigh for a variety of constantly changing reasons. And I will not shit on sawdust.

  14. Chemist Peter 14

    Well I am a loon as well as a scientist. Look at the Nasa GissTemp data, a slow but gradual cooling is occurring, not warming for the past 2year or so. Look at the Jan/Feb figures of 31 meaning 14.31 degrees. Coldest start to a new year for 18 years.

    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata/GLB.Ts.txt

    Real pathetic that since us ‘deniers’ are so wrong you use vile terms to describe us. Why be so indignant if denial is wrong wrt Climate Change and it was totally proven.
    The GW scam is another tool used by socialists to re distribute wealth.
    It was also warmer in the Medievil times as well.

  15. Chemist Peter 15

    Sam, what denier literture have you read and on what basis is it crap?

  16. Dale 16

    Also where is the proof that the planet has warmed since 1998. There is none because it has’nt.

  17. Dale 17

    Funny how my comments await “moderation” is this blog governed from North Korea?

    [lprent: You just happen to share a IP address range with some of our least favorite trolls. Sorry about the hassle. But you probably wouldn’t want to visit if they were here]

  18. AncientGeek 20

    CP: I’m not a chemist in training – I’m a earth scientist in my training. So I’m restraining myself here simply because you are a dumb-arse chemist.

    Climate trends aren’t like looking at a chemical reactions. They don’t happen in less than a decade except at a local level or globally for volcano’s. Even those typically take multiple years to take effect across the globe if they manage to hit the stratosphere or troposphere.

    Of course climate changes over time. Volcanic eruptions change it, changes in sea currents change it, solar cycles change it, ice shelfs breaking off and melting changes it, and finally and least you blowing hot air probably changes it. That has never been at issue.

    What matters is decade long changes in the sea and atmospheric systems, not what happens in a couple of years. In this case you are describing patterns from the well described el nino and related effects from sea current changes. Has a known cycle, and this year and next year are at their peak.

    In the log-term trend. There has been close to a doubling of CO2 in the last 100 years. Most of that comes from fossil fuels – easy to see by looking at carbon isotope levels. The oceans and biomass have been partially buffering. Various gases and particulate matter cause increased entropy in light energy towards IR. So the long term trend worldwide is for steadily rising temperature levels. Again the temperature levels are buffered mainly by oceans, ensuring long-term release.

    But the buffering isn’t sufficient to remove the full effect, so we’re likely to get significant effects within my remaining lifetime.

    The IPCC estimates are unlikely to happen – they are just too conservative. The effects will be sooner and bigger than they publish. That is the opinion of every active person in the area.

    So as you state

    Well I am a loon as well as a scientist.

    I’d suggest that in this area you are a loon. Please go and read the material, take a crash course in earth sciences, and learn about the science before you start talking about “2 year” period as being anything significant.

  19. AncientGeek 21

    Billy:

    I expect global warming has occurred. Looking after the planet cannot be wrong. But I am sick of people in homespun jumpers telling me that the end is nigh for a variety of constantly changing reasons. And I will not shit on sawdust.

    Overall I agree with that statement – well apart from not understanding the sawdust angle.

    Global warming has occoured. It is too late to really stop the effects. What we are looking at now is what the on-going effects are for the next thousand years. The key to that is to stop increasing the rate of increase and eventually even figuring out how to drop the levels. It is a long-term project, and I detest having it as a fashion item in any decade. But it does have to be done.

    At the current rate of increase, I’d expect people to have problems with breathing reflexes in the next 50 years (triggered by CO2). I’d expect widespread inundations in the next 25-30.

    But that isn’t all. Why that period – a thousand years? Because that is how about the longest period that it takes the oceans to churn through the deep currents moving from the poles to the equator. For most of the last couple of centuries we’ve been feeding additional CO2 and heat into those currents. Eventually it will either release or prevent additional buffering.

    It is a hell of price to expect your descendants to pay so you can have a SUV.

  20. Chemist Peter 22

    Ancient – doubling of CO2 in 100 years, no where near it shithead, approx 50%, 270ppm-390ppm. You are a dumb-ass rock fucker, must have a scabby cock now, put it into HCl, will get rid of the scabs and stop you multiplying.
    Also it is not any warmer than 10 yers ago, it has cooled since 1998 if you want a 10 year trend, pity it co-incides with the 1998 El Nino. Look at temps in the 2000s, no real warming, pretty much flat lined.
    Why was there a dip in temps from 1940-1970 with higher CO2?
    You lefties are real gullible, Gorebull warming, yeah right.

  21. AncientGeek 23

    CP:

    doubling of CO2 in 100 years, no where near it shithead, approx 50%, 270ppm-390ppm.

    Yes – but how much has the CO2 in the oceans increased over the same period. It is just another part of the volatiles, running in a long-term equilibrium with the atmosphere.

    There has between 500 and 600ppm added from known fossil fuel release over the last 107 years (we’ll ignore the 19th century). The oceans appear to have buffered something like 160-200ppm as shown in the acidity level increases. The variance depends on whose volume levels you believe, and the ongoing discussion about bottom level currents CO2 takeup. Eventually that will return to the atmosphere, and bearing in mind the levels of carbonates at the seafloor and the effect of acidity on it, I’d bet that you’re going to get another release of fossiled CO2 as well.

    Why was there a dip in temps from 1940-1970 with higher CO2?

    Exactly which regions are you talking about. I’m aware oif the ill-informed tendencies to regard the europe and the US as being thw whole of the world.. but…

    Yes in Europe and NE US. Disappeared after they reduced the particulate matter they were blowing out of the smokestacks. That reduced the higher atmosphere scattering that was cause upper but not lower level heating. Now if you care to look at the upper atmosphere in those areas you’ll find upwards temperature trend during the same period.

    If you look at the rather spotty data worldwide for the mid-20th, and in particular in the polar areas (which are least populated and polluted and most sensitive to temperatures) you find a continuous rise in temperature after the 50’s when they started to get good records. Look at the antarctic data from the IPY in 57 onwards in the NZ geological survey data for instance.

    BTW: If you want to pull mantle of science over you opinions – then expect to get challenges. Normally it is called peer review, however in this case it is simple annoyance because you haven’t bothered to look at the science.

  22. AncientGeek 24

    Ok – bit much wine..

    That reduced the lower atmosphere scattering, but that caused upper level heating but not lower level heating.

  23. r0b 25

    CP, you keep trotting out invalid arguments. Clearly you haven’t read even the basics, where they are refuted:

    http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/mg19426041.100

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/7074601.stm

    You may also have missed this recent international report:

    http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/globalwarming/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier

    On Feb. 2, 2007, the United Nations scientific panel studying climate change declared that the evidence of a warming trend is “unequivocal,” and that human activity has “very likely” been the driving force in that change over the last 50 years. The last report by the group, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, in 2001, had found that humanity had “likely” played a role.

    The addition of that single word “very” did more than reflect mounting scientific evidence that the release of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases from smokestacks, tailpipes and burning forests has played a central role in raising the average surface temperature of the earth by more than 1 degree Fahrenheit since 1900. It also added new momentum to a debate that now seems centered less over whether humans are warming the planet, but instead over what to do about it.

    Governments all over the world (and many individual states in America) are taking action to combat climate change. Are they all fools? Are they all bewitched by Al Gore? No CP, it’s just that they can all read the evidence which you deny.

    In other news, Arctic ice has retreated so much that new shipping lanes have opened up, and there are looming international debates over newly accessible mineral, oil and fishing rights. Why is the ice melting CP?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/10/science/10arctic.html
    http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/arctic.html

    As well as Arctic (and Antarctic) ice melt, glaciers (one of the most sensitive indicators of global warming) are receding world wide – see dramatic images here:

    http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html

    There are plenty of other pictures on that site, CP, if you find all the long words on this subject too bothersome.

    Wake up CP. This isn’t about our petty political squabbles. This is about how liveable our planet is going to be in the years ahead…

  24. Steve Pierson 26

    dale. Why would anyone who’s not a climate change denier also be a believer in weird 9/11 conspriarcy theories?

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    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    1 week ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The wrong kind of trees?
    Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No freedom of speech in Turkey
    Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Tadhg Stopford: Why I’m standing for the ADHB
    Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua.  Nothing else helped her. If I ...
    1 week ago
  • Good little vassals
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Who Shall We Turn To When God, And Uncle Sam, Cease To Defend New Zealand?
    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    1 week ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Air New Zealand identifies this enormous plot of unused land as possible second airport site
    Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Redline on the Labour Party
    No-one on the anti-capitalist left in this country today puts forward a case that Labour is on the side of the working class.  There are certainly people who call themselves ‘socialist’ who do, but they are essentially liberals with vested interests in Labourism – often for career reasons. Nevertheless, there ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s failure
    When National was in government and fucking over the poor for the benefit of the rich, foodbanks were a growth industry. And now Labour is in charge, nothing has changed: A huge demand for emergency food parcels means the Auckland City Mission is struggling to prepare for the impending arrival ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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