Muller goes, bring back Simon?

181 comments on “Muller goes, bring back Simon? ”

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1. Reality 1

   14 July 2020 at 8:20 am

   Don't forget Paula. She could do a re-entrance skit with Tom Sainsbury.
   • Lenore 1.1

     14 July 2020 at 8:33 am

     Ha ha I was thinking that – the new Winston Peters in the making
   • Treetop 1.2

     14 July 2020 at 8:35 am

     And Amy Adams just might do an exit.
2. Patricia Bremner 2

   14 July 2020 at 8:22 am

   Good for you Todd. I have far more respect for you now. That must have been a tough gig with that bunch.
   Jacinda had her whole team backing her and acting in unison, following team rules. Leadership is much tougher than she makes it look.
   • Marcus Morris 2.1

     14 July 2020 at 8:55 am

     Totally agree Patricia. I admire Muller for his honesty and, as you say, it all shows just how good Jacinda is in her role. As Brian Gould has said recently, these times require a different style of opposition leaders. Bridges didn't get it and neither did Muller. Attack politics just dont cut it when a country is facing a crisis of this magnitude. I doubt if Judith Collins will do any better and Kaye is no Jacinda
3. Muttonbird 3

   14 July 2020 at 8:22 am

   Simon hasn't had the time to reflect on what he was doing wrong. He'd come back 'vindicated' and more aggressive than ever. In fact no amount of time will mature Simon Bridges because he doesn't have the capacity to learn anything resembling emotional intelligence. His ego will not allow it.

   However, the COVID leaks did not happen under his watch so maybe he'll appear to the public free of baggage because of that.

   If Simon does come back, does that mean Paula too..?
4. Brendan 4

   14 July 2020 at 8:25 am

   Nat voter here:

   Well Labour is all set to win in 2020, just avoid making a major screw up, and you are in.

   Congrads in advance.

   Now since the Nats don't appear to win (and the Nat voters don't like losing), I would not be suprised if the Nat vote splits to either the Ideological heartland of Act, or a center party to try and control Labour (as happened in 2002).

   .
   • bwaghorn 4.1

     14 July 2020 at 8:26 am

     If I was a nat I'd vote nzf .
     • Adrian Thornton 4.1.1

       14 July 2020 at 8:43 am

       If I was a National voter, I would hope that at some point in my life I would wake up one morning, see my reflection in the mirror and have that moment of epiphany when I had to question what it is deep in my psyche that makes me vote for such a negative and destructive ideology year after year…
   • CAnker the pig fucker 4.2

     14 July 2020 at 9:38 am

     thanks for your thoughts Brendan. Good to have a Nat voter who gives genuine opinion.
     • Anne 4.2.1

       14 July 2020 at 10:14 am

       ditto.

       You may have seen comments Brendan from a couple of days ago when some of us were reflecting on the principled National Party politicians of yesteryear.

       Perhaps some of your number would do well to study them in detail. I refer to the likes of Tom Shand, Ralph Hanan, Don Mckinnon, Jim McClay, Brian Talboys, Jim Bolger and even old Kiwi Keith – to name just some of them.
       • Kevin 4.2.1.1

         14 July 2020 at 10:28 am

         Kiwi Keith?

         Surely you are having a laugh. His corrupt behaviour over Kinloch means he fails the 'principled' test every time.
         • Georgecom 4.2.1.1.1

           14 July 2020 at 1:45 pm

           Maybe gentleman jack, jack Marshall who Muldoon rolled for the national party leadership
           • Grafton Gully 4.2.1.1.1.1

             14 July 2020 at 2:00 pm

             Jack Marshall as Minister of Justice supported the death penalty and is said to have shown a heartless attitude towards the mother of one condemned.

             Black’s parents, back in Belfast, must deal by distance with the news of their son’s terrible predicament. His mother Kathleen yearns to be with her son, but is discouraged by Minister of Justice Jack Marshall. The government doesn’t want a mother protesting her son’s innocence, and Marshall is a supporter of the death penalty: "Murderers, all of them. And, frankly, if you want my opinion, we could do without these deplorable migrants.”

             https://thespinoff.co.nz/books/31-07-2018/the-second-to-last-man-to-be-executed-in-new-zealand/
       • Macro 4.2.1.2

         14 July 2020 at 10:39 am

         and even old Kiwi Keith – to name just some of them

         hmmm I'm not so sure that Holyoake fits in that list.

         One issue touched upon by several reviewers of Kiwi Keith was Holyoake’s private development of land at Kinloch on the northern shores of Lake Taupö, where the building of a government road to the edge of his property aroused a degree of controversy. McAloon wrote that ‘his interest in Kinloch is well discussed’. 4 But others felt Gustafson had been too soft on the subject: John Roughan in the New Zealand Herald noted the lack of ‘strong comment’,5 while Bassett remarked upon the need for more explanation in respect to ‘the accusations levelled at Holyoake over his influence to get essential services into Kinloch that appears to have turned him and his partners into wealthy men’. 6 Just what was Holyoake up to at the holiday resort of Kinloch, where from 1953 until his death in 1983 much of his private life was focused? There is much more to scrutinize than his influence in having a road built to his property. Most particularly, there are the circumstances of his acquisition of Mäori land there in 1956. T

         http://www.nzjh.auckland.ac.nz/docs/2010/NZJH_44_2_03.pdf
         • Anne 4.2.1.2.1

           14 July 2020 at 10:59 am

           He also had an issue with some land he purchased prior to the announcement of the nearby appropriation of land for the new university to be built north of Auckland in the 1960-early 70s. He would have made a pretty package out of on-selling that land after the announcement. Whether he did or not I don't know. Politics was the last thing on my mind in those days. 😉

           I wasn't sure whether he should be included for that reason but that aside he was a pretty standard PM who didn't rock the boat.
           • Macro 4.2.1.2.1.1

             14 July 2020 at 1:32 pm

             And Best Voice in the House. Ho ho ho.
       • Chris 4.2.1.3

         14 July 2020 at 4:46 pm

         Bolger? Principled? I think you're letting how Bolger likes to present himself these days colour your memory of him when he was PM. Don't forget he was in charge of the biggest assasination of cultural values this country's ever seen, and that we still haven't recovered from.
         • Anne 4.2.1.3.1

           14 July 2020 at 5:03 pm

           He's apologised for that and I believe him to be genuine. Nobody made him do it.

           Lots of brownie points for admitting you were in the wrong.
   • Enough is Enough 4.3

     14 July 2020 at 9:54 am

     This may be the lifeline Winston needed and I dreaded.

     Conservative New Zealand's worst dream is a Labour Green Government that provides real transformational reforms.

     The only way they can halt that now is to have Winnie at the top table running interferance for another three years.
     • Bearded Git 4.3.1

       14 July 2020 at 10:19 am

       If Labour gets 46 and the Greens 6 they can push through anything regardless of NZF.
       • xanthe 4.3.1.1

         14 July 2020 at 10:55 am

         If labour gets to choose between Greens and NZF they will choose NZF .
         • Bearded Git 4.3.1.1.1

           14 July 2020 at 11:12 am

           I think not this time xanthe….if they have 64 seats between them the Greens are a much better fit.

           NZF have blocked too many initiatives this term ….especially the light rail., Gun laws and CGT. This has pissed off many labour voters.

           Winston will be 78 in 2023.
           • xanthe 4.3.1.1.1.1

             14 July 2020 at 11:22 am

             I do agree that winston is getting on and if he goes NZF will not be so likely a fit for labour. also the greens are not acting quite so crazy these days.. so just maby.. I just dont think we should assume labour/greens. Labour will be considering the very significant and quite justified "never greens" sector. I see no sign that the greens have even acknowledged this, let alone attempt to build bridges. This will weigh heavy in the minds of labour
         • Barfly 4.3.1.1.2

           14 July 2020 at 1:12 pm

           If they get to chose between them – they will chose both but be hamstrung by neither
           • xanthe 4.3.1.1.2.1

             14 July 2020 at 1:28 pm

             yes thats likely
   • infused 4.4

     14 July 2020 at 1:46 pm

     nat voters were already going to vote act.

     I actually suspect this is why he has stood down. There must be an internal polling being done that states this.

     National were a fuckup when Simon was there.
   • George 4.5

     14 July 2020 at 6:27 pm

     Nikki Kaye could give it a shot and make a good job of it …if she was encouraged to be authentic, honest and straight up. She's the right age and voice to speak to the issues facing the country going forward. But it's only going to work if the backwards thinking old guard running national get their heads out of their backsides. Otherwise they are staring down a long time in opposition.
5. Ad 5

   14 July 2020 at 8:26 am

   Dammit we need a functioning Opposition.

   Otherwise there's simply no policy or parliamentary contest for accountability.

   Also it's an NZFirst gift back to 5%. Which is annoying.

   Twinned with corruption allegations so close to our election, this is a very dark day for our democracy.
   • CAnker the pig fucker 5.1

     14 July 2020 at 9:44 am

     Ad the Nats haven't been a functioning opposition for some time. Remember all the crap that came out with Jami Lee Ross. Sometimes its better to burn the house down.
     • Ad 5.1.1

       14 July 2020 at 10:35 am

       Been through that a few times under Labour.

       Takes several terms to recover.
       • CAnker the pig fucker 5.1.1.1

         14 July 2020 at 11:46 am

         The opposition with now likely be Act, the Greens and NZ first.
     • Macro 5.1.2

       14 July 2020 at 10:41 am

       Exactly. Apart from more roads and less taxes the Nats policy cupboard is bare.
       • George 5.1.2.1

         14 July 2020 at 6:28 pm

         Even Jim Bolger and others are saying tax more…those who can afford it…
   • Chris 5.2

     14 July 2020 at 12:48 pm

     Would you enjoy a right-wing opposition functioning so well that it wins the policy contest and becomes the government?
     • Ad 5.2.1

       14 July 2020 at 12:58 pm

       We need an Opposition sufficiently effective that:

       – government mistakes are exposed and rectified against government spin

       – government policies are tested in public without reporters just printing Ministerial releases

       – government legislation has proper Select Committee scrutiny rather than being rammed through all stages

       – government budgets are gone through line by line through a full shadow cabinet

       and of course:

       – that there's an alternative for the 50% of the electorate who generally hate this kind of government being in

       Now, sure, I want Labour to be in for a good four terms because they are better at government. But in the immortal words of Dr Michael Cullen, somethings "It's time for the other team to have a bat."
       • Brendan 5.2.1.1

         14 July 2020 at 1:57 pm

         Your remark about the other team having a bat reminds me of the following quote.

         It's always good to have Labour in for a term – all the Lino is gone. – Muldoon.

         During the previous Kirk Government there had been major do ups of the Parlimentary complex and all the lino had gone.
       • Chris 5.2.1.2

         14 July 2020 at 2:33 pm

         I don't think Cullen meant that time itself should mean a change of government, rather than when it is time for the other side to have a bat it's because voters have said so.
     • infused 5.2.2

       14 July 2020 at 1:48 pm

       I said the same thing when Cunlif was in charge and National were high. As much as I like my team winning, you need a strong opposition to keep things in check
       • Chris 5.2.2.1

         14 July 2020 at 2:34 pm

         But not too strong, eh?
     • Stuart Munro 5.2.3

       14 July 2020 at 3:09 pm

       Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Maybe we could start by having an opposition party that actually makes it a policy contest instead of a scandal war.
       • Chris 5.2.3.1

         14 July 2020 at 3:30 pm

         I don't think the question is amenable to "starting" with anything. The logical extension of a policy contest is that there will be times when the other side becomes the government.
         • Stuart Munro 5.2.3.1.1

           14 July 2020 at 4:21 pm

           Look, the Gnats might pull off a hail Mary – but even very sound policy play is unlikely to overturn the Covid-driven lead this election. It is a different story however, in 2023, where a long scrupulous policy discussion combined with the inevitable attrition of governance could leave them in a very good position – were it not that the failed rightwing policies to which they are wedded have limited public appeal and have never and will not now work in the public interest.
           • Chris 5.2.3.1.1.1

             14 July 2020 at 5:25 pm

             Remind me what I'm supposed to be looking at?
   • Enough is Enough 5.3

     14 July 2020 at 1:23 pm

     When was the last time we had a functioning opposition?
     • Herodotus 5.3.1

       14 July 2020 at 3:18 pm

       Not in my living memory, but then outside the Lange govt I question if we have had a functioning government. All they have implemented was a variation of what went before them.

       I am reminded that government lose elections not opposition winning them.

       If after this election nothing changes what then ??
6. UncookedSelachimorpha 6

   14 July 2020 at 8:30 am

   Hope they don't manage a Jacinda-like miracle!
   • Dawn Trenberth 6.1

     14 July 2020 at 8:40 am

     A different scenario. Andrew Little had united the Labour caucus. He could see the polls were bad under his leadership and decided to resign in favour of Jacinda Adern. He did what was best for the party and the caucus stayed united. The National caucus appears totally divided. A Jacinda miracle is impossible here. They dont have a principled politician like Andrew Little or someone with the compassion and leadership skills of Jacinda Andern.
     • Incognito 6.1.1

       14 July 2020 at 10:11 am

       Huh? I think Todd Muller just did what Andrew Little did in 2017, as I said last night.

       https://thestandard.org.nz/nationals-ethics/#comment-1729502
       • Dawn Trenberth 6.1.1.1

         14 July 2020 at 11:06 am

         True about the resignation bit. However Todd Muller didn't unite the caucus like Andrew Little did.
         • Incognito 6.1.1.1.1

           14 July 2020 at 11:09 am

           I was comparing the two men for their personal similarities not for their respective political failures.
         • Enough is Enough 6.1.1.1.2

           14 July 2020 at 1:57 pm

           A caucus is generally united if its member's jobs are safe.

           3 years ago there was little chance of Labour MPs losing their jobs because the caucus was so small after the Cunliffe debacle. Despite the polling under Little, it was no worse that the previous 9 years.

           The current National caucus is going to be decimated and that is why you have nervous MPs. They will only unite behind a leader who can guarantee their jobs. And that is never going to happen
   • Patricia Bremner 6.2

     14 July 2020 at 2:35 pm

     Which one could be a "Jacinda like miracle" in their team?

     Remember, Has to be a unanimous choice, with a great communication, be kind and a role model, a policy wonk, and prepared to marry 3 groups together to form a government. Should be a doddle. Nah no chance.
7. Adrian Thornton 7

   14 July 2020 at 8:31 am

   The way forward is obvious, a co leadership of Collins/Bridges..that way way they get all the political optical advantages of having both a Woman, and a man of colour leading their party…thereby splitting the woke vote…goodbye Labour, you can say you heard it here first.
   • Muttonbird 7.1

     14 July 2020 at 8:35 am

     But didn't Collins admit she voted for Muller in the leadership coup?
     • I Feel Love 7.1.1

       14 July 2020 at 10:01 am

       You forget Collins is a woman of colour, her quote "white is a colour".

       But Collins, is like present day Trump, has a unique audience, she isn't all encompassing. She would destroy National once and for all.
   • Peter 7.2

     14 July 2020 at 8:42 am

     I can already envisage her bowling down the corridor to the foyer for the stand-up. All the click-click-clicks and with her little Simon pomping along on a lead studded with little plastic jewels. The Big Day at the Easter Show.
   • swordfish 7.3

     14 July 2020 at 10:49 am

     Collins would certainly stem the flow to ACT.
8. EE 8

   14 July 2020 at 8:35 am

   Thank you Michelle
9. ianmac 9

   14 July 2020 at 8:36 am

   On a human level I feel sorry for Muller. Such a public failure after what he no doubt imagined that he would ride the stallion to rescue his beloved Party.
   • Bearded Git 9.1

     14 July 2020 at 10:23 am

     No sympathy here….he knew what he was taking on….he spent the whole time stupidly attacking Labours covid measures.

     You have to look below the bonnet.
   • Robert Guyton 9.2

     14 July 2020 at 4:14 pm

     Isn't everything "on a human level"?
10. Gosman 10

    14 July 2020 at 8:39 am

    This is brilliant news for the ACT party. It is headed for well over 5% of the vote now.
    • Stuart Munro 10.1

      14 July 2020 at 3:12 pm

      Perhaps – or it may lose its only seat to a Gnat desperate to stay in parliament as the list shrinks.
      • woodart 10.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 4:15 pm

        think you are correst stuart. paora goldsmith will actually have to try to win his electorate as his list place is looking shakey. that leaves act needing 5% to stay in parliament. act is likely to get that. should be hilarious with their rapid dropoff in competency from a high ? of seymour lol.
    • Robert Guyton 10.2

      14 July 2020 at 3:20 pm

      If Collins gets the nod, ACT sinks back to inconsequentiality.
      • Chris 10.2.1

        14 July 2020 at 3:47 pm

        Collins is pretty dense, but bright enough to realise it's not her time yet. Now Bennett, she's a different story. The nats will be looking for someone to take the fall but who could also lift the numbers closer to a respectable level. Bennett's got a following amongst the stupid so she could be the sucker they need. She's certainly stupid enough to believe it's her time.
    • Tricledrown 10.3

      14 July 2020 at 4:33 pm

      With ACT. a Capital gains tax plus job insurance tax increases
    • Ken 10.4

      14 July 2020 at 4:49 pm

      Nat voters have to save their own party before they can contemplate deals with potential coalition partners.
11. te reo putake 11

    14 July 2020 at 8:40 am

    A clever man bought down by an overwhelming confidence in his own unproven abilities. But enough about Hooton. Now's not the time 😉

    It can't be time for Nikki Kaye either; dollars to donuts Michelle Boag leaked to her as well and it's certain to come out sooner rather than later.

    They might be best to go back to Simon. If he'll have them.
    • Adrian Thornton 11.1

      14 July 2020 at 8:47 am

      "A clever man bought down by an overwhelming confidence in his own unproven abilities. But enough about Hooton. Now's not the time" LOL

      …Yep the good news gets better
12. Andre 12

    14 July 2020 at 8:45 am

    Luxon. There's nothing stopping a party selecting a leader that's not yet an MP. Russel Norman became co-leader of the Greens on June 3 2006, but didn't become an MP until 27 June 2008.
    • CAnker the pig fucker 12.1

      14 July 2020 at 8:52 am

      Oh yes Luxon……lets have another unproven who has only done one media interview and done it poorly
    • The Chairman 12.2

      14 July 2020 at 9:06 am

      Regardless who they put forth, unless we end up back in lock-down Labour have got this election sewn up IMO.
    • RJL 12.3

      14 July 2020 at 9:40 am

      I think National's internal rules prevent this (whereas the Greens…less sure of having any MPs don't have such a rule). Of course, National can always change their rules, I suppose.
    • froggleblocks 12.4

      14 July 2020 at 4:37 pm

      There's nothing stopping a party selecting a leader that's not yet an MP.

      Apart from National's own rules that say they can't do that, you are correct.
13. CAnker the pig fucker 13

    14 July 2020 at 8:47 am

    I am speechless, almost! Who saw that coming…………….
    • bwaghorn 13.1

      14 July 2020 at 9:06 am

      I suggested a few days ago that woodhouse had shafted him .

      Itll be interesting to see who gets to the top and how close woodhouse is standing to them at the first stand up .
    • I Feel Love 13.2

      14 July 2020 at 10:04 am

      I did notice yesterday they seemed to be hiding him, but was shocked to see the news, that's a pretty short tenure.
      • Andre 13.2.1

        14 July 2020 at 10:07 am

        … pretty short tenure.

        4.82 Scaramuccis, if my 'rithmetic is correct.
    • Incognito 13.3

      14 July 2020 at 10:18 am

      I think it was fairly obvious that Muller was fighting an internal struggle more than anything. People just focussed too much on the sideshows around him, as usual, and missed important cues. According to some here, perception is all that matters, but that’s just simplistic lazy ‘analysis’.
14. Rosemary McDonald 14

    14 July 2020 at 8:57 am

    Perhaps they'll go full Dirty and boost Mitchell. The wings must be getting a bit stale for him by now.
    • Gabby 14.1

      14 July 2020 at 9:44 am

      Double Down on Dirty? Mitch the Merc would be up for it.
15. CAnker the pig fucker 15

    14 July 2020 at 8:59 am

    The Daily Blog suggests that Mullers fingerprints were all over the Boag leak and would easily be discovered. …………I find that credible
    • Muttonbird 15.1

      14 July 2020 at 9:08 am

      Yep. Seems the most likely explanation.
16. Muttonbird 16

    14 July 2020 at 8:59 am

    Garner is saying there was someone else supposed to topple Bridges but they pulled out leaving Muller and Kaye to do it.

    Wonder who that was?

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/i-am-shocked-the-am-show-hosts-react-to-todd-muller-s-resignation-as-national-party-leader.html
17. Peter 17

    14 July 2020 at 9:12 am

    If lying is a criterion for having Muller out, is the ability to and a record of lying criteria for having Collins in?
18. swordfish 18

    14 July 2020 at 9:13 am

    Winston:

    NZ First leader Winston Peters said he acknowledged “the heavy price of trying to lead the National Party”.

    “One’s sympathy goes out to Todd Muller and his family. Todd is a good man, unlike most of his colleagues he does have commercial experience, and he will bounce back.“Leading a divided and incompetent caucus would have tested even the best leader … Todd never had a chance given the fault lines of ambition, personality, and ideology that run deep through the National Party caucus.”Peters said the “instability” of the National Party placed it “out of the running” for the upcoming election.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300056130/todd-muller-resigns-as-leader-of-the-national-party

    
    • Just Is 18.1

      14 July 2020 at 10:43 am

      I think Winston has just acknowledged the saviour of his party into the next election.
19. te reo putake 19

    14 July 2020 at 9:13 am

    RNZ say that Nikki Kaye is confirmed as temporary leader, and the Nat caucus to meet tonight at around 7pm.
20. Georgecom 20

    14 July 2020 at 9:31 am

    I can imagine the National Party Board meeting this morning

    "sh*t, Todds just resigned as leader"

    "bugger, who can we get to replace him"

    "someone call Michelle and ask for her opinion. Oh, hold on, she has resigned also"

    "How about Paula?"

    "No, shes resigned"

    "How about Simon Brid….oh ok, yes"

    "Um, Judith Collins?"

    "LOL, LMAO, ROTFL, yeah, how long do we want to remain in opposition?"

    "What about that young guy from Southland, he is promising"

    "Hamish Walker? Haven't you heard, he has also resigned"

    "Um, Michael Woo…….dhouse. Hmmmm hmmmmmmmm"

    "That guy Luxon, he is a good un?"

    "Not even in Parliament yet"

    "Crap, how about we advertise the position on Trademe"
    • Bearded Git 20.1

      14 July 2020 at 10:35 am

      Who else do we know that has a MAGA hat and is available?
      • Patricia Bremner 20.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 2:49 pm

        JLR went with Todd so he possibly has one somewhere…. mind you that probably got thrown out with everything that has happened.
21. Robert Guyton 21

    14 July 2020 at 9:37 am

    The homeless man.
    • Adrian 21.1

      14 July 2020 at 12:24 pm

      Ace !
22. rrm 22

    14 July 2020 at 9:40 am

    Crusher FTW 🤩

    Watching offended people take offense at shit she says will be some small consolation for the National election defeat that now looks inevitable.

    OMG DID SHE JUST SAY THAT? SHE CAN'T SAY THAT! WAIT, CAN SHE SAY THAT??

    And as a woman the left and the MSM will have to choose their words carefully when they rubbish her. But she is white, straight and cis so she doesn't score high for intersectionality, so still plenty of scope there for identity politics and personal attacks.
23. CAnker the pig fucker 23

    14 July 2020 at 9:42 am

    The homeless man for leader of the National Party. lol, lol. lol

    He would do as good a job, if not better than any of them……

    Still thinking of the billboards……Better team, more jobs
    • Paddington 23.1

      14 July 2020 at 11:35 am

      There's a homeless man in my neighbourhood village that I talk to at least once a week. He'd actually make a very good leader of the opposition. At least better than the last 2.
24. observer 24

    14 July 2020 at 9:46 am

    (to RRM)

    " And as a woman the National MPs who hate her will have to choose their words carefully when they rubbish her."

    Fixed it for you.

    You do know that the National leader is not elected by the evil lefties, don't you? The only reason she has never got the job is the people she sits with in National's caucus.

    But blame others if it makes you feel better.
    • I Feel Love 24.1

      14 July 2020 at 10:09 am

      Criticizing a woman leader doesn't seem to bother those at #nzpol , jeez that's an ugly tag that the misogynist RWs have taken over on Twitter.
25. Just Is 25

    14 July 2020 at 9:55 am

    I always felt Tod was in conflict with the directives of his advisors, I don't think he completely agreed wih the Dirty Politics aspect, it's not within him, he only agreed under duress, I think his conscience got the better of him

    He was a puppet on strings being pulled by many
26. Weasel 26

    14 July 2020 at 9:59 am

    Keep in mind Bob Hawke's comment, which was reprised when the Andrew Little suddenly stepped down to open the way for Jacinda, that the best time to be appointed leader of a party is six weeks before an election. That's what happened to Hawke when he won and it is happened to Jacinda.

    Maybe the way is being prepared for the return of the National Party Messiah – John Key?

    Let's hope that it will be Nikky Kaye who painfully displayed in Sunday's Q&A https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/episodes/s2020-e21 just what a lightweight she is — count how many times in the interview she says: "I've just got two things to say.."

    Actually, if I was a Nat, I would be thinking about someone radically different like Nicola Willis who is articulate (even if she is saying the wrong things), will help bring in urban liberal voters and women. The sod busters are always going to vote National, so the Nats need to pivot away from social conservatism and move their ideology towards the city
    • Robert Guyton 26.1

      14 July 2020 at 10:17 am

      I reckon Willis is being groomed for the top role but now's too early. It's not though, as if they have many options, so she may find herself thrust at least closer to the spotlight.
    • woodart 26.2

      14 July 2020 at 10:22 am

      dont know about the sod busters. think many will have had enough of the nats shambles, and vote for nz first. the provincial growth fund has worked well out here in the provinces . nats putting up some inner city smartarse wont help. winston is very on point with his comment about a divided nat circus, re, ideology.
27. Incognito 27

    14 July 2020 at 10:00 am

    I think Muller should leave that moral Sodom and Gomorra that is the National Party. No level-headed person will stay level-headed in that culture for long.
28. observer 28

    14 July 2020 at 10:11 am

    Of course I have sympathy if Muller has health issues, and credit to him for stepping down in that case.

    But it has to be emphasised, in BIG letters, that he did not have to face what leaders usually have to cope with – ferocious attacks from the opposing side.

    Compare Ardern's treatment of Muller with the Clark years, when MPs like Mallard were the attack dogs against English, Brash, Key. And of course the Nats' hit squads, against any Labour leader you care to name. Politics can be brutal.

    Whereas Todd Muller had the easiest ride from "the other side" that any leader has had in modern times.
    • aj 28.1

      14 July 2020 at 10:23 am

      Whereas Todd Muller had the easiest ride from "the other side" that any leader has had in modern times.

      Agreed, he wasn't there long enough for the other parties to latch onto, except in question time. He even got a fairly soft time in social media. This was self-inflicted, waging an election campaign based on lies and leaks, it totally blew up in their own faces. Karma. Boag will be staring blankly into her cornflakes.
    • Incognito 28.2

      14 July 2020 at 10:29 am

      True, but the ‘other side’ saw that it didn’t need to be cruel and kick a man who’s being taken down by his own, even if that’s the kind of ‘politics’ it would be in to.
    • Treetop 28.3

      14 July 2020 at 3:16 pm

      Muller faced ferocious attacks from within his own caucus and it flowed into the public arena instigated by an ex National Party President who did not show loyalty.

      The media heat is off Boag for today and this is temporary.
29. Stephen D 29

    14 July 2020 at 10:27 am

    Dipped my toes into Kiwiblog, so you don't have to.

    Most of them are blaming our rabid left wing media.

    Go figure.
    • Bearded Git 29.1

      14 July 2020 at 10:47 am

      Much appreciated Stephen…that gave me a good laugh over brekkie..I love the people who save me from sullying my brain reading that stuff.
      • gsays 29.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 3:57 pm

        At that time of day, brunch would be more accurate.
    • Just Is 29.2

      14 July 2020 at 12:17 pm

      I wasn't aware there is a Left Wing media
    • Gabby 29.3

      14 July 2020 at 12:58 pm

      Funny how everything I heard this morning on RNZ was rotwing commentators.
      • Bearded Git 29.3.1

        14 July 2020 at 1:16 pm

        I noticed that Gabby
30. Byd0nz 30

    14 July 2020 at 10:45 am

    Incompetent, disgraceful, shambolic,
    These are the words we hear,
    From the man who demolished bridges,
    Now he has fallen, oh dear oh dear.
    Well said the joker to the clown,
    You know, when you play with fire,
    The question now is, said the clown,
    Who will be the next Nat Liar.
    • Barfly 30.1

      14 July 2020 at 1:13 pm

      
31. swordfish 31

    14 July 2020 at 11:14 am

    Two Post-2017 Election Headlines / Memes come to mind:

    Strongest Opposition Ever

    Get ready for a Rollercoaster Ride with New Coalition of Losers Government
    • RedLogix 31.1

      14 July 2020 at 11:21 am

      lol … and I remember at the time saying something like, 'the devil makes work for idle hands'.

      Having too many MP's with nothing interesting to do didn't turn out well for them.
      • swordfish 31.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 11:41 am

        Just like post-1990 … massively inflated National caucus (67 out of 97 seats) … discontent brews … Winston, Michael Laws, Gilbert Myles, Hamish MacIntyre all jump ship.
32. observer 32

    14 July 2020 at 11:20 am

    History:

    Clark faced 4 opposition leaders in 9 years (Shipley, English, Brash, Key).

    Key faced 4 in 8 years (Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe, Little).

    Ardern will now face 4 opposition leaders in less than 3 years (English, Bridges, Muller, somebody).

    Part-time PM beats short-term opponents.
    • Paddington 32.1

      14 July 2020 at 11:40 am

      Interesting. Just shows what an incredibly difficult job Leader of the Opposition is.
    • swordfish 32.2

      14 July 2020 at 11:59 am

      We're in an era where charismatic leadership plays an evermore decisive role … so when you have an astronomically popular new PM … Key 2008-11 / Ardern 2017-20 … the Opposition become little more than spectators.

      To their credit, the Nats remained reasonably competitive until COVID-19 … although even then only specifically (& intermittently) in the most Nat-friendly of Polls: the Colmar Bruntons … & only because NZF was polling a little under the 5% threshold (even in the CBs … the Govt s always outpolled the Oppo in aggregate support)
    • Muttonbird 32.3

      14 July 2020 at 3:18 pm

      Putting it another way, Key 'saw off' 4 Labour leaders in 10 years; Clark, Goff, Shearer and Cunliffe.

      Little then 'saw off' Key, no mean feat!

      JA has now 'seen off' 3 National Party leaders in 3 years; English, Bridges and Muller.

      My bet is she'll get through a lot more of them before she's finished…
      • froggleblocks 32.3.1

        14 July 2020 at 4:40 pm

        Little then 'saw off' Key, no mean feat!

        Yeah, and one that Little deserves almost no credit for whatsoever.
33. Sabine 33

    14 July 2020 at 11:38 am

    Michael Woodhouse?

    and where is Puckish? He should be here pushing for Mrs. Oravida.
    • Incognito 33.1

      14 July 2020 at 11:39 am

      He’s on gardening leave.
    • Grafton Gully 33.2

      14 July 2020 at 2:25 pm

      Oravida and Tommee Tippy

      https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/443255/shareholdings?backurl=H4sIAAAAAAAAAFWOQU7DQAxFb%2BMNi0iVWFqoKhULukANF7BilwxyZ6a2p5DbkwS1gt3383%2FS7yp9iHcpc7ombqSdC9kwPl1wKKop%2B8Nn4xQjeJAFbh5B0zmtQXKkmPq1j0DMJu6vMn0VY4RaZkN3hQVhKC2HTffS%2B1RlOa6UB%2BE3yqJ4InWB89KfxcxkDPJd5yR8FG8ajmBFZZW3hwPMo%2FfrhIX4f9QHRfMXK63eP8%2FJfvEN9ONf4CcEZ%2FwBE1U5%2FhIBAAA%3D

      https://newbornbrands.co.nz
34. The Al1en 34

    14 July 2020 at 11:45 am

    Great, another new leader. Expect a Cambridge to Tirau express way announcement (again). 😆
35. CAnker the pig fucker 35

    14 July 2020 at 12:30 pm

    Well that's bumped the SFO Labour investigation off the agenda………

    Way I see it is that Todd was struggling with the spotlight, including having to lie and found it all to anxiety provoking. If so very good decision to stand down Mr Muller. Take care.

    Or as bomber proposed has his finger prints all over Boags documents and they had to cut him loose.

    Time will likely tell
36. Adrian 36

    14 July 2020 at 12:31 pm

    Cometh the hour, cometh the man.

    Nick Smith. 2020.

    He's already practiced the salute.
    • Cinny 36.1

      14 July 2020 at 12:49 pm

      Lmfao !!!!!!

      Meanwhile crusher has cancelled her trip to Motueka tomorrow…… bugger, I wanted to ask her to sign my copy of Dirty Politics.
37. Brutus Iscariot 37

    14 July 2020 at 12:49 pm

    If Bridges returns, traditional Maori values dictate that he will require sufficient utu.

    Could be ugly…
38. James 38

    14 July 2020 at 12:55 pm

    Well, that went well didn’t it.

    im hoping for crusher. She will lift the Nat vote higher than what muller or bridges would have achieved this election (not that I hold much hope out for a Nat victory).
39. lurgee 39

    14 July 2020 at 1:05 pm

    A speedy recovery and good health to Mr Mueller. He seems like a fairly decent person and – as we will sometimes have National governments – I'd rather they were lead by fairly decent people rather than ideological hardliners and extremists. Mueller wouldn't have looked completely absurd in the Labour Party, which is why I welcomed him as National Leader – he was an insurance policy. If things go wrong they only go a bit wrong. Given the fragility of the left coalition and the risks inherent with anything involving Winston Peters, it was comforting to know National weren't lead by a ruthless, unprincipled rightwing fundamentalist.

    Which brings us to Judith Collins … if Collins does rise to the leadership, that is a worry. She can easily lead the party through the 2020 election, blaming defeat on Bridges and Mueller. She can spend two months throwing red meat to the National base, knowing she won't have to deliver on it. She can be nasty and snide and condescending to Ardern without being called on it. If she can avert a wipe out in 2020, she'll probably be in place for the next term and by that time a National lead government would be feasible. And then we have to face the reality of Crusher Collins, admired by the likes of Carrick Graham and Cameron Slater and the rest of the Dirty Politics crowd, as PM.

    That's not a prospect to fill the left with anything other than dread. Those celebrating the debacle of Mueller's leadership should be wary. I can recall people gloating when English was rolled – they soon found the laugh was on them, as we came within a whisper of seeing Don Brash as PM, and though that was narrowly avoided, nine years of John Key ultimately ensued.

    In 2023, will we be seeing something worse than Key or Brash slouching off to Wellington to be born?
    • Gabby 39.1

      14 July 2020 at 4:49 pm

      as leader of the oppo her business interests would surely come under scrutiny, along with her allegiances, and the flow of info to and from her.
40. Paul 40

    14 July 2020 at 1:09 pm

    The nats should appoint Goldsmith – their chance of having the first Maori Prime Minister!
    • Gabby 40.1

      14 July 2020 at 1:31 pm

      Or Juddee Colitis, first Kauri priminsa.
    • Graeme 40.2

      14 July 2020 at 1:55 pm

      He's probably the only senior Nat that's come through this with anything that could be called integrity.
41. Tiger Mountain 41

    14 July 2020 at 1:24 pm

    If Todd Muller has had some kind of meltdown, fair enough to step down, despite the inconvenience for everyone else-billboards printed etc.

    But… if I see any Tory on line or in earshot call Jacinda a “part timer” again look out!
42. Unicus 42

    14 July 2020 at 1:36 pm

    
43. Georgecom 43

    14 July 2020 at 1:39 pm

    Given the position is proving so hard to fill should it be added to the skilled migrant job list and see if there is someone from overseas who might like to apply

    [Fixed error, this time in e-mail address]
    • Incognito 43.1

      14 July 2020 at 1:56 pm

      Fixed error, this time in e-mail address
44. observer 44

    14 July 2020 at 1:42 pm

    There's a flurry of media commentary now along the lines of "is politics toxic?".

    That's a cop-out. The Greens are not toxic. Labour under current leadership are not toxic (they have been in the past, plenty of back-stabbing).

    It's National who choose to be toxic. To each other, to opponents, and by extension, to the political process. USA Republican wannabes. With terrible consequences over there, we don't want here.

    And there's not the slightest sign they intend to change. Even if they get thumped at the polls, the survivors will be the ones with safe seats – and they are among the most toxic in caucus.
    • Just Is 44.1

      14 July 2020 at 2:41 pm

      Great analysis Observer, the media are driving the Toxic angle, but in reality, they're the ones who are complicit in it ending up that way

      Clickbait, Headlines and all that.
      • I Feel Love 44.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 3:17 pm

        Absolutely, and now with the chance of Collins taking her turn, let's see if the Nats have learnt anything.
        • Just Is 44.1.1.1

          14 July 2020 at 5:19 pm

          If Collins takes the reigns, I think they'll continue down the same road that Muller was unwilling to negotiate.
45. Janet 45

    14 July 2020 at 2:08 pm

    Is it possible for all to agree to postpone this election for a year’s time – September 2021 ?

    It seemed wrong to be happening so soon into the Covid 19 Pandemic anyway, when our Members of Parliament would have been more useful to the nation collaborating rather than electioneering. Now with huge political party disarray why not defer the huge cost of running and election till next year when the result will be more stable and convincing.
    • observer 45.1

      14 July 2020 at 2:26 pm

      Is this satire?
      • Pat 45.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 5:28 pm

        lol…my thoughts exactly.

        Do we want to live in a democracy…or not?
    • Just Is 45.2

      14 July 2020 at 2:46 pm

      Better still, National could just concede a loss prior to the Election and save us all the trouble.

      Come back in 3 years, National will have plenty of time to review their errors and more importantly, most people will have forgotten by then.
    • Treetop 45.3

      14 July 2020 at 3:28 pm

      I cannot wait until next year for the election result.

      Probably it would be to long for the National voters as National have lost direction and the situation could become worse in the National Party.
46. Bob 46

    14 July 2020 at 2:20 pm

    Billy TeKahika
47. Brian Tregaskin 47

    14 July 2020 at 2:57 pm

    Yep bring back Simon and demote anyone that was involved with the coup against him to the back benches. Simon is good old kiwi battler (misguided ideology to us) but the voters may like his story about never giving up and he is a familiar face
    • Just Is 47.1

      14 July 2020 at 5:34 pm

      Too familiar.

      Simple Simon Says

      Stop barking at passing cars
48. Robert Guyton 48

    14 July 2020 at 3:22 pm

    National with thrive under a leader known as "Crusher"!

    /sarc.
    • Tiger Mountain 48.1

      14 July 2020 at 4:17 pm

      Yes indeed, “Crusher Collins”, and dis–honourable mentions in Nicky Hagar’s “Dirty Politics”…

      …a real asset one might think mid Covid.
      • Robert Guyton 48.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 4:19 pm

        The God-awful Sean Plunket on Magic Talkback is promoting her like crazy, so the complete evisceration of the National Party looks almost certain.
49. Gabby 49

    14 July 2020 at 4:31 pm

    Plenty of keewees will vote for a bully,
    • I Feel Love 49.1

      14 July 2020 at 4:40 pm

      Working well in the USA.
50. Tricledrown 50

    14 July 2020 at 4:40 pm

    Mark Mitchell would be my bet on the new night watchman.
51. Morrissey 51

    14 July 2020 at 4:55 pm

    Bye, Tod. Hello, Rod.

    Is this bloke still available? Now is the time, methinks….

    https://static2.stuff.co.nz/1261603846/861/3192861.jpg

    https://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0605/55ffd0ef0f2a4f2f0375.jpeg
    • Drowsy M. Kram 51.1

      14 July 2020 at 5:03 pm

      Oh NO, my eyes…
      • Morrissey 51.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 5:07 pm

        That shirtless pose was not photoshopped, by the way. To Rodney's credit, he actually got himself in fighting fit form. Hopefully we'll be seeing a lot more of that awesome torso in the near future.

        Apparently some fools are seriously pushing for Mr Hide's egregious successor, David Seymour, to become Nasty Party leader.
52. Pat 52

    14 July 2020 at 5:09 pm

    It seems to me that to now succeed in NZ politics one needs to be something of a sociopath…

    a sad state of affairs
    • Just Is 52.1

      14 July 2020 at 5:41 pm

      Only for the right, I don't see Ardern as a Sociopath, more a born Leader, an assett National has never recognised
      • Pat 52.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 5:44 pm

        Ardern is an outlier….and a happy accident
53. Red Blooded One 53

    14 July 2020 at 5:26 pm

    Have we ruled out Pullya Benefit not retiring after all. For the good of the country and her party of course. /sarc
    • Pat 53.1

      14 July 2020 at 6:06 pm

      "Have we ruled out Pullya Benefit"

      yes.
54. observer 54

    14 July 2020 at 5:41 pm

    Ahead of the decision tonight, here's my prediction:

    Bridges will return as leader. Nearly half the caucus didn't want him rolled, and there are enough others who can't stomach Collins. Plus the MPs who are happy to let him take the blame for election defeat.

    He just might be smart enough to want Kaye as deputy. She'd be the least divisive choice, and they can present it as "balanced" ticket.

    But it doesn't really matter much, because whoever wins has to face a very long list of questions, immediately (e.g. do they sack Woodhouse? are the MPs leaving still leaving? Are Muller policies or the Bridges policies still National policies, or do we start again … again? Is Winston ruled back in? etc).
    • Pat 54.1

      14 July 2020 at 5:45 pm

      would be madness to reselect Bridges…thats a guarantee to even lower support
55. georgecom 55

    14 July 2020 at 5:44 pm

    we do not want the National Party vote to go too low, high 20's will be fine with me.

    that will ensure Goldsmith has to actually fight for the Epsom seat and ACT will likely need an electorate seat to get back into Parliament. Paora got 11,000 vote the last 2 elections despite saying 'vote for the other guy'. If he actually goes out and contests the seat it could be very uncomfortable for Seymour. The chance to shrink Nationals caucus and to sink ACT, what a great election result that would be

    [Fixed the same error in user name again]
    • Incognito 55.1

      14 July 2020 at 6:05 pm

      [Fixed the same error in user name again]
    • Incognito 55.2

      14 July 2020 at 6:07 pm

      Why don’t you read the replies to your comments?
      • swordfish 55.2.1

        14 July 2020 at 7:46 pm

        Jesus Bloody Christ that's bright … it burned my eyes.

        One of things I like about The Standard's design is the calm mix of light blue, fawn & above all plenty of white space. I hardly think there's any need to introduce the lurid sensations of canary yellow & tangerine orange into proceedings.

        The sort of colours I associate with Belgian Football Teams & Spanish Flamenco Dancers … not a Kiwi Left-leaning blog of some gravitas & repute.
        • Incognito 55.2.1.1

          14 July 2020 at 9:11 pm

          Ah, yes, sorry about that. It was really to get the attention of georgecom to test if they’re reading the replies at all. Seems not.
    • Tricledrown 55.3

      14 July 2020 at 7:28 pm

      If the Labour Greens nzfirst voters voted for Goldsmith in the electorate kept supporting their party on the list vote that would put an end to ACT.

      But a big But if National continue to implode ACT could get to 5% and not need more welfare.
56. Hanswurst 56

    14 July 2020 at 6:18 pm

    I think that, when Muller describes his leadership as having become "untenable from a health perspective", he is referring to his situation with respect to his health spokesman, not his personal health.
    • Pat 56.1

      14 July 2020 at 6:21 pm

      youre joking of course
      • Hanswurst 56.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 6:28 pm

        Who me? Never, I tell you.
        • Pat 56.1.1.1

          14 July 2020 at 6:31 pm

          just checking…after all mental health is apparently no longer a topic of humour

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