web analytics

Muppets.

Written By: - Date published: 11:50 am, December 16th, 2013 - 99 comments
Categories: election 2014, petition, political education, referendum - Tags: , ,

Did Mike Williams just suggest (about 19 minutes in) that the Greens and Labour Parties utilise the email addresses they gathered from the petition against asset sales in their election campaigns?! I sincerely hope he wasn’t channeling an idea that has any traction within the Labour Party machine.

Just to be absolutely clear on this. I did a lot of political activism in the past. And sometimes that involved gathering people’s email addresses or whatever on petitions and so on. Any thought of using those contact details to canvas on other matters, or even associated matters, was rightly so off the cards as to be unthinkable. If there is a desire to use collected contact details, then the simple inclusion of a tick box for permission to contact should be included on any form. Otherwise…no. Don’t do it. It’s that simple.

I believe Michael Tritt of Greenpeace is learning why as he tries to defend his organisation’s use of petition details to fund raise. Now sure, Mike Williams isn’t quite in the loop these days, but I hope the relevant people within Labour and the Greens are paying attention and disavow themselves of any such notion.

99 comments on “Muppets.”

  1. Tracey 1

    What about the privacy act which says you can only use people’s data for the purpose you stated to them. i don’t recall ticking any boxes stating anyone could use my details for anything other than the petition?

    Limits on use of personal information (principle ten)

    An agency that holds personal information that was obtained in connection with one purpose shall not use the information for any other purpose unless that agency believes, on reasonable grounds, –

    (a) that the source of the information is a publicly available publication; or

    (b) that the use of the information for that other purpose is authorised by the individual concerned; or

    (c) that non-compliance is necessary –

    (i) to avoid prejudice to the maintenance of the law by any public sector agency, including the prevention, detection, investigation, prosecution, and punishment of offences; or

    (ii) for the enforcement of a law imposing a pecuniary penalty; or

    (iii) for the protection of the public revenue; or

    (iv) for the conduct of proceedings before any court or tribunal (being proceedings that have been commenced or are reasonably in contemplation); or

    (d) that the use of the information for that other purpose is necessary to prevent or lessen a serious threat (as defined in section 2(1)) to –

    (i) p

  2. When I was petitioning for the referendum, I discouraged people from providing email addresses because I did not trust Labour (and specifically Labour) to obey the Privacy Act and use them solely for the purpose for which they were collected. I am not glad to have those suspicions confirmed.

    • Anne 2.1

      I told signers of the petition that if they would like to be contacted by interested parties, then provide your email address. If not, then don’t provide it. Some were happy about that… others not so they left it out. All of them were grateful to have the choice, and no-one complained.

      As an LP member, that was meant to be the basis of the email address being provided.

      • Bill 2.1.1

        And you’ve highlighted an obvious glitch right there. That you were explicit is one thing. But how many signature gatherers you reckon elevated the gathering of contact info above the simple collection of signatures resulting in them saying to people something along the lines of “We need your email address here.”?

        All petitions or forms that have a space for details and that may follow up on those details has to have an obvious ‘tick box’ or some such that clearly indicates permissions given.

        This isn’t in response to your comment Anne, but it astounds me how I – an amateur activist – understands this and has understood it from the get go (years back) and yet to so-called professionals it’s all seemingly so much ‘whoosh’ over the head stuff.

        • Idiot/Savant 2.1.1.1

          Respect for privacy may be a generational thing. Mike Williams predates the Privacy Act – and it shows.

          • Murray Olsen 2.1.1.1.1

            I predate the Privacy Act. I think that pestering people using email addresses they’ve put on a petition would be stupid and counterproductive. I agree with Bill.

        • Anne 2.1.1.2

          Agree with you Bill.
          That’s why I phrased my response the way I did. Instinct tells one to be clear about what will happen if you provide your email address. Even so, my local Labour organisers ensured we gave petition signers the choice, but how many other gatherers were given no instructions at all. I imagine plenty…

          • Anon 2.1.1.2.1

            The labour party was quite happy to give out copies of the petition for members of the public to collect signatures and send in, no way for the collecter to even know the intended purpose of the email field. As stated by others, the purpose of the email field needs to be explained at least on the form itself.

        • Yep. And if they only intend to use your email address for other purposes, they need to state those purposes outright when collecting your information, preferably in writing as well as out loud.

  3. BM 3

    According to a post on whale oil this is going to be a major component of the greens election strategy.
    Can’t say I really agree with the methods.

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/12/green-party-data-scammers-look-guidelines/

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 3.1

      I believe the Greens had a campaign asking if you want to sign up and be involved – that is completely different.

      • Bill 3.1.1

        That would be fine. It’s a simple and no-brainer option to offer people. I just can’t remember what the story was when I signed. Anyway….

    • bad12 3.2

      According to Blubber Boy’s ‘wail oil’, you scrape the bottom of the barrell inviting derision BM…

    • Naturesong 3.3

      Not going to give Cam any clicks.

      The greens are pretty strict on informed consent for emailing people. You won’t get unsolicited mail.
      There was a campaign earlier in the year to generate an email list by the greens, they were pretty explicit at the time that it would be used to provide updates and raise funds.
      Been trying to find it but cant remember the name, I remember at the time thinking it was pretty naff (the name of the campaign).

      If you could provide evidence of the greens misuse of email lists I’d appreciate it.

      I know other members, like myself, will not tolerate that sort of behaviour by the party.

      In the mean time, and until you provide evidence, I’m going to call bullshit.

      • you_fool 3.3.1

        I was bad and did give him a click… the post seems to be taking plenty out of context and gives no real evidence that the greens are using peoples contact details inappropriately. i was trying to find the post in question on the standard but couldn’t find it, until I realised that it was made on 25th Sept..

        Also I am pretty sure my IQ level has dropped by a few points just by reading the linked article and the comments

      • BM 3.3.2

        There was this comment

        http://thestandard.org.nz/labour-up-6-8-herald-digipoll/#comment-701162

        How that ties in with the emails, I’m not sure but the timing is certainly interesting.

        • McFlock 3.3.2.1

          🙄

        • you_fool 3.3.2.2

          Appears to me to be nothing about emails from petitions, but a social media campaign, which is easy to do without peoples emails from other sources. Nothing seems to connect the two dots other than a desire to do so, or am i missing something major?

        • Naturesong 3.3.2.3

          So, “A” party plotting a very hip social media strategy to get non voters out in numbers for the 2014 election.

          Hip social media strategy does sound to me like the Greens.
          Also sounds above board. I can’t see any issues there.

          But you can imagine how much of a black eye it would be for them if they were using peoples emails inappropriately, right before election time.
          I wonder if Cam will try and manufacture something?

          • BM 3.3.2.3.1

            He certainly could do, especially with his “tip line”.

          • Murray Olsen 3.3.2.3.2

            “Hip” could be Pete George planning something on behalf of United Dunnies. Or maybe even Colon Craig. I can’t see anyone else using a term like that, unless it were NAct. In that case, Blubber Boy would find it inspired.

        • Bill 3.3.2.4

          The comment refers to an a-political group. That rules out the Greens and Labour and the Asset petition right there…unless, of course, they passed the fcking info on to a third party.

          • Naturesong 3.3.2.4.1

            Ahh, cheers. I mis read

          • you_fool 3.3.2.4.2

            Whilst this may be your point, the “A” I think is in regard to an A grade, i.e. excellent.

            Or is could be “A” as in “x” or unidentified, it is not very clear

    • Anne 3.4

      Pffff. What does Blubber Boy know about the Greens’ strategy. No, I haven’t opened the link. I have standards.

    • Macro 3.5

      Another Bowel Motion…..

  4. blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 4

    Yep good post it would be a bad move.

    I personally have learned to expect that I will be on an email list after signing a petition for activist sites, [I didn’t like that at first yet it is easy to get off those lists and have decided not to because I like knowing what is going on in certain areas] however it is a different thing completely for a political party to do this. That would be a very bad idea.

  5. weka 5

    I have a feeling that the GP considers the information to be theirs to use. Certainly for petitions in general they want to use the contact details if provided.

    “We want to stay in touch with supporters about the campaign and other Green Party activities. That’s why we ask for email, address and phone. Contact info is optional, email is best.”

    https://www.greens.org.nz/petitions/volunteerinstructions

    • Bill 5.1

      Hmm. Your link refers to Parliamentary petitions (eg, asset sales) rather than general petitions. I searched for a link to download the petition form to see if there was a ‘buy in’ option. Couldn’t find any such link though. (Would I be correct in thinking the petition came in some official format that would preclude the inclusion of a ‘buy in’?)

      Anyway, would be planking my head on the table repeatedly about now because of the potential for Stupid, but I kinda don’t like pain.

      • Idiot/Savant 5.1.1

        The petition form’s only nod to the Privacy Act was a note saying “To keep up to date with the campaign please provide your email and phone number”. Which suggests strongly that use of the information collected should be limited to the actual referendum campaign, not the wider political campaigning of the petitioner or political parties doing the collection.

    • toad 5.2

      What’s more, all emails a person receives from the Greens in response to signing a petition have the following options:

      Unsubscribe from this email list

      Change subscriptions and update your details – subscribe to email newsletters and more

      Unsubscribe from all emails

      So at any time a person who opts to go onto the Green database through signing a petition can unsubscribe from receiving all emails, or particular types of emails from the Greens (or can add particular additional types of emails they want to receive if they wish).

      • framu 5.2.1

        “So at any time a person who opts to go onto the Green database through signing a petition”

        but unless that situation was stated up front all they did was sign a petition – thats the problem

        Im a solid green voter but i detest ANYTHING turning up in my email that i didnt ask for. Even from those i support

        like others have said – all it needs is an opt in check box – “do you want to receive further communications from the green party”.

        It shouldnt be an opt out later situation

        • Naturesong 5.2.1.1

          It’s one of my pet peeves.
          After looking for a house it took me months to get off all the real estate email spam lists

      • Bill 5.2.2

        Toad. If I sign a petition, it means that I’m signing a petition. And that’s it. The signing is not a license for the holder of the petition to contact me on either that or other matters unless they have explicitly sought and received my permission to do so.

        As I said in the post, I’ve collected signatures and details on a number of occasions. Usually the petition was simply to give people the feeling they were doing something in support of whatever the cause was…ie, it wasn’t really of any consequence or help. Anyway, I can say with absolute confidence that most people who sign a petition want the signing to be the beginning and end of their involvement. (This from the %age of ‘buy in’ when a ‘buy in’ option was put on forms and pointed out to people)

        But sure, feel entitled to pester people as you seem to indicate is your ‘right’ having gained contact details. It’ll blow up in your face.

        • Te Reo Putake 5.2.2.1

          “The signing is not a license for the holder of the petition to contact me on either that or other matters unless they have explicitly sought and received my permission to do so.”

          And seeking that permission is exactly what the petition form does. If you provide the contact info, expect a call or an email.

          • Bill 5.2.2.1.1

            Simply referring you to Idiot/Savant’s comment (5.1.1) above. Says all that needs to be said on the asset petition.

            That I was referring to ‘informal’ petitions should have been obvious and no, simple signing of such petitions confers no permissions.

            • Te Reo Putake 5.2.2.1.1.1

              Referring to I/S’s narrow understanding of what the word campaign means doesn’t help. The anti asset sales campaign continues unabated and the use of the contact details for the purpose for which they were provided is not only sensible, it’s vital.

      • Anne 5.2.3

        Similar policy to Labour toad.

        ALL recipients of Labour info. can simply click on “unsubscribe” if they don’t want to receive anything.

        That’s a whole lot different to National. Last I heard you only had to buy a Nat. Party- run raffle ticked at a Fair or some such place and bingo… you were a paid up member of the National Party.

        • felix 5.2.3.1

          “Last I heard you only had to buy a Nat. Party- run raffle ticked at a Fair or some such place and bingo… you were a paid up member of the National Party.”

          That’s terrible. And not far from what some here are suggesting would be ok for Labour and Greens to do.

          • Blue 5.2.3.1.1

            I agree it would be “terrible” were it true. It’s a lie unless Anne can provide evidence that buying a raffle ticket makes you a member of the party.

            • Anne 5.2.3.1.1.1

              @ Blue

              It was a National Party member who told me. Admit it was years ago and may well no longer be occurring but it was the norm once. I can’t produce the evidence so that means I’m lying? What you’re saying is: anyone who knows anything – either by way of information passed on to them or having witnessed something – is lying if they can’t of themselves produce the evidence.

              X rings police. “I’ve just seen a submarine surface in the Gulf. It’s gone back down now but it was on the surface for about five to ten minutes.”

              Officer: “where’s the evidence?”

              X : “I didn’t have a camera on me so don’t have any evidence.”

              Officer: “oh well in that case you’re lying.”

              That actually happened in 1985 around the time of the Rainbow Warrior bombing. It happened in the middle of the night so camera bit didn’t apply. Witness wasn’t believed. Turned out it was almost certainly a French submarine and linked to the bombing.

      • JustLikeTigerWoods 5.2.4

        Send an email to me, Toad, and I’ll be lodging a complaint with the Privacy Commission.

        Do you feel lucky?

  6. Rogue Trooper 6

    Poor Form.

  7. I encourage everyone who believes their information has been misused in this way to lodge a complaint with the Privacy Commissioner.

    Also remember to tell the world you’ve done so. Bad publicity is an effective weapon against politicians; make sure you use it.

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 7.1

      … before you do that – if it is regarding a political party consider what approach will give National the ammo required in order to fool New Zealanders into voting them in again…perhaps a quick email to your local representative first and gauge whether their response is apologetic, acknowledging the problem and resolving to correct the fault and learn from their mistakes?

      • Idiot/Savant 7.1.1

        Fuck ’em. If Labour didn’t want bad PR hobbling its chances, they should have thought about that before pulling this scam. And if you don’t want Labour’s chances hobbled by such self-inflicted wounds, you should talk to them about it.

        https://www.labourparty.org.nz/contact

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 7.1.1.1

          Yes…I did think such things prior to responding to your comment (!).

          I concluded another National government would be utterly devastating and worse than having to unsubscribe to a misguided electioneering approach by Labour.

          However we shouldn’t have to choose between a respect for our privacy and a government lacking interest in pursuing policies in New Zealanders’ best interests

          And so I hope Labour members are keeping an eye on the blogs and getting their shit together – get their priorities clear – and I hope left wing people do too – because National do the divide and rule a whole lot better than they do ‘governing in New Zealanders’ best interests’. We must not let them take power next year.

          • Matthew Whitehead 7.1.1.1.1

            We don’t have to choose between those things.

            The Labour Party has to choose between giving the National Party ammo, and respecting our privacy. We have to choose between taking such treatment quietly, or not at all, and I don’t think our choice is really a choice, to be honest. If Labour’s already crossed the lines of acceptable behaviour, they need to be held accountable regardless of how it effects the election- because if they can hold our complaints hostage based on the election result, then we’ll never have an opportunity to complain, ever.

            • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 7.1.1.1.1.1

              Well we ain’t getting our privacy rights respected by this lot…& I’ve a feeling Labour would be prepared to rectify at least some of the damage done by this govt…so you can argue over junk mail details but I’d say you had lost perspective.

        • Vagabundo 7.1.1.2

          You’re acting like they’re actually listening to what Williams has said.

          • Bill 7.1.1.2.1

            I wrote the post, fearful that what Williams was saying was what Labour were already thinking. Hence the “I sincerely hope he wasn’t channeling an idea that has any traction within the Labour Party…”

            • Matthew Hooton 7.1.1.2.1.1

              Of course gathering email, postal and physical addresses was the point of the petition for the CIR. What possible other purpose could it have had? Have you never talked to a serious political organiser like Mike, or Bunny, or Matt, and worked out how they think?

    • Tracey 7.2

      this is the form I downloaded and got signatures for

      https://www.greens.org.nz/sites/default/files/KOA-CIR-Petition-Form.pdf

      note: the form says if you want to be kept up-to-date with the campaign to provide more details. An ordinary reading might suggest that once the CIR ended, so did the purpose for the details.

      • Bill 7.2.1

        This is somewhat beside the point of whether the contact details should be used.

        But the bloc for the voluntary info is not separated from the bloc for necessary info….they are joined and continuous. And there is only one clearly labelled optional box – date of birth. If each ‘phone number/email’ box had a similar (optional) label as the date of birth box instead of a wholly detached ‘up in the right hand corner’ black explanatory box that flies in the face of the reasonable assumption that all the info boxes belong to the same discrete whole that asks for all necessary info to be supplied (Date of Birth being the only info clearly labelled as optional…)

        Anyway. Not the clearest of layouts/designs is my point. (Possibly deliberately so?)

        • Naturesong 7.2.1.1

          Seems reasonably clear to me.

          Only the fields that are required actually have headings at the top of the column;
          Signature and DoB, Full Name and Residential Address.

          The big highlighted “Stay Connected” in the top right hand corner is also a bit of a givaway.

          If email addresses from this KOA campaign ended up being used for fundraising for next years election by any political party, I would consider that an abuse.
          Reading the form, I would expect that any emails collected would be used by the Keep Our Assets group for the purposes of that specific campaign.
          Also remember, that this was not initiated by the Greens, but by Grey Power who signaled their intention to push for a CIR before the 2011 election.

          • Bill 7.2.1.1.1

            A detached black box above and to the right is a trick of highlighting!? Whatever. I mean, people give this sort of form a quick scan – not a read. And they make fast and easy assumptions based on their initial scan.

            • Naturesong 7.2.1.1.1.1

              I think you are being deliberately obtuse

              … people give this sort of form a quick scan – not a read

              Really? The John Banks excuse 😎

  8. Te Reo Putake 8

    Hate to inject some reality into this discussion, but the petition form asks signers to provide their phone and email address if they want to “keep up to date with the campaign”. A phone call from Labour, the Greens or Grey Power during election year for that purpose would obviously be lawful.

    An obvious update would be either party announcing they intended to buy back the assets or some similar measure.

    So, no privacy breach as long as it’s relevant to the campaign.

    http://www.labour.org.nz/sites/default/files/KOA_CIR_PETITION_FORM_L_27_04_2012.pdf

    • Bill 8.1

      The campaign was to gather signatures and submit them to parliament in order to halt asset sales. When the petitions were submitted, that campaign ended – or has there been another string to the anti-asset campaign bow that I’ve been unaware of and that is on-going? I think not. Meaning that any campaign to buy assets or whatever is, well…a different campaign.

      • Te Reo Putake 8.1.1

        Nope, it’s all part of the same campaign, Bill. One of the ‘other strings’ you have forgotten is the just completed referendum. The next string is the election campaign. If you signed the petition and gave your details, you have consented to be contacted about asset sales. That’s the fact of the matter.

        • Bill 8.1.1.1

          Your opinions are not facts TRP. Anyway, sadly expecting the Labour Party and ( if Toad’s comments are anything to go by) the Greens to blunder ahead and piss people off regardless.

          • Te Reo Putake 8.1.1.1.1

            No offence, Bill, but I’m not putting up opinion, I’m pointing on the simple fact that people who gave their details agreed to be contacted. It only took me a moment to check the actual petition and I did that before I posted.

            However, I am prepared to put up one opinion, which is that hardly anyone who gets contacted by Labour or the Greens about the asset sales is going to be upset about the call or email. The majority are going to be chuffed that their voice counts and they will be keen to hear what the two parties are going to do about it.

            Anyhoo, at least you haven’t unwittingly signed up to Apple, because we all know how that works out.

            • Bill 8.1.1.1.1.1

              And if they are contacted on election campaign matters? Oh, that’s right…that was the other string to the anti asset sale campaign bow according to yourself….the election campaign. So everything is A-OK. It’s all a part and parcel of the same thing.

              • Te Reo Putake

                Yep, you’re starting to get it! As long as they are contacted about the asset sales, then its not an issue at all. And given how big a deal asset sales is to most kiwis, just about every phone call and email from the left is going to mention it.

        • McFlock 8.1.1.2

          I’m on the green email list somehow (drilling petition?). Not a big inconvenience, but it certainly doesn’t encourage me to vote for them.

          Regardless as to whether “the campaign” means the long term campaign against neoliberalism, or simply the campaign to get 350k signatures, putting me on a mail list when I didn’t expect it smacks of someone playing silly buggers. What, tricking me into receiving ongoing emails is supposed to end up with my vote? I’m prone to digging my heels in out of bloody-mindedness (not sure anybody’s noticed 🙂 )

          As it is, I walked past a greenpeace clipboard-holder in the street for that exact reason (email lists). Normally a 30% chance I’ll stop and look, now it’s zero. Be a shame if lab or the grns got a similar response from 5% of folks.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 8.1.1.3

          You may have consented to being contacted but all that means is it’s legal to contact you, not that it’s wise.

        • Tracey 8.1.1.4

          I think you will find under the Privacy Act that any vagueness is NOT construed in favour of the collector of Data. The onus on them is to be crystal clear about the purpose.

    • Colonial Viper 8.2

      A phone call from Labour, the Greens or Grey Power during election year for that purpose would obviously be lawful.

      Would be LAWFUL???

      How low a bar are we setting here???

  9. ghostwhowalksnz 9

    Whats all the fuss.
    Oh yes your email address !!

    Who cares, its like a letter box, all sorts of stuff turns up

    Remember too, that ‘somehow’ the Government go hold of the fact a ‘David Shearer’ had applied for Mighty River information pack.

    Of course it was someone with a malicious sense of humour- yes Im thinking of you David Farrar.

    But this ‘private’ information was passed onto the government, ( so much for Chinese Walls)

    Wheres the outrage over National party dealing in confidential information for political purposes.?

    Thats right because it doesnt make a big play in Farragoblog or the Oily Orca it isnt a big deal, so move on.

  10. weka 10

    I don’t have time to do this today, but anyone can phone the Privacy Commissioner’s office and ask for an opinion on this. Generally they do a call back.

    Ph: 0800 803 909

    Email: enquiries@privacy.org.nz

    http://www.privacy.org.nz/contact-us/

    Bill, I appreciate what you are saying in terms of what should be (both legally and in terms of good practice). But the privacy act is written in ways to both protect people’s information AND enable free transfer of information where that is appropriate. It happens alot. Ever signed a form for health reasons? Did you know you are not just sharing that information with your GP but every other person in the clinic the GP works in? Likewise much gets shared interagency as a matter of course without patients necessarily knowing ahead of time.

    (and don’t get me started on the shit that WINZ are now doing with this).

    I don’t know what the legalities are re the petition, but I suspect that TRP is right – contact details can be used for the Asset sales campaign. There may even be a case for wider use.

    There was an interesting bit on Kim Hill with the next incoming Privacy Commissioner for anyone that wants a general overview.

    • weka 10.1

      So, where the act says this (assuming Tracey was quoting the Act above),


      An agency that holds personal information that was obtained in connection with one purpose shall not use the information for any other purpose unless that agency believes, on reasonable grounds, –

      (a) that the source of the information is a publicly available publication; or

      (b) that the use of the information for that other purpose is authorised by the individual concerned;

      The reason that health care agencies can share information routinely without getting express permission each time is because they believe, on reasonable grounds, that the patient has authorised this. Authorised doesn’t not mean given explicit consent. It’s assumed that the patient is ok with information being shared. For the most part this works well, but there are very obvious cases where it doesn’t (where patients wouldn’t want information shared without them knowing). At the moment the law/system errs on the side of health agencies unless a complaint is made.

      Likewise, it might be reasonable for the GP to use contact details on one of their petitions about banning whale oil for instance, for other purposes related to the GP. Myself, I don’t think this applies to the Asset sales petition because it was a petition run by many different groups, but I haven’t looked at the form yet.

  11. Morrissey 11

    Mike Williams is nearly always the patsy for Matthew Hooton every Monday morning on National Radio. Surely they can get someone better than him. What happened to Laila Harre? Or Sue Bradford? Or Andrew Campbell?

    • Paul 11.1

      Morrissey you know the answer to that.
      RNZ don’t invite the left anymore. Libertarians only please.

  12. Colonial Viper 12

    Gee let’s think about this, it’s not about whether it’s ‘lawful’ or ‘allowable’, it’s what your customer expectations are and whether or not you are meeting those expectations or failing them.

    A lot of people who do not vote Labour or Green signed that petition and getting an email or anything in the post from either Labour or Greens is not always going to be at all welcome, particularly if their partner is not sympathetic and a million other real world reasons.

    • Te Reo Putake 12.1

      Actually, CV, that’s the argument in a nutshell. Can the details be used? Yes. Should they? Opinions differ.

      • weka 12.1.1

        Can they be used? Maybe, depends on what for. Should they be used? Opinions differ.

      • BM 12.1.2

        But will it do more harm than good?

        No one likes being spammed, but I think what the real risk for the left is that people may feel they’ve being tricked and the asset sales petition was more about the harvesting of emails for electioneering rather than trying to stop the assets being sold.

        Here be dragons.

        • Tracey 12.1.2.1

          agree @ impact of being tricked.

          the right’s trickery is too subtle for their supporters to work out they are be duped.

  13. Chris 13

    I user a simple method to protect my email inbox. I have 2 email addresses, 1 I use for organisations I don’t mind hearing from and a an email dump address that I use for things such as petitions that want more info than you really want to give.

    Plenty to choose from, blahoo, google, mail.com etc.

  14. Vagabundo 14

    Have I missed something, or is everyone freaking out over something that someone who hasn’t really been relevant to the party for a while suggested? Has this become actual official policy for either Labour or the Greens? Have they actually suggested they would do anything of the sort?

    • Naturesong 14.1

      No, you have it right.

      Mike Williams said something dumb on radio.

      Bill’s post is essentially; “Dude, you’re really not helping!”

  15. weka 15

    Another thought. Is the CIR petition a public document? In which case, anyone can use the email addresses.

    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      even if technically correct, you don’t really want to irritate potential voters and supporters.

      • weka 15.1.1

        True. Most of my comments in this thread have been about the legalities. I have this nagging thought that this came up earlier on and taht the GP was intending to use contact details. Can’t remember what the deal was exactly, but it strikes me as yet another shift on the GP’s part where pragmatics trumps ethics.

        • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.1

          I reckon you could get away with a one off email saying something like:

          We really appreciate your help getting the no asset sales petition across the line. You made a big difference. Next year is a General Election year. May we contact you during the election campaign with regards to other [Green/Labour] Party activities and policies? YES / NO (If we don’t get a response within 7 days we will send you a single reminder email, and leave it at that)

          The classic Labour Party approach when a person says YES to having their email address used is to then bombard them with 5 requests for donations over the next 3 months. PLEASE don’t do that.

  16. weka 16

    Oh come on, this post has been up most of the day and no-one has linked to this?

  17. rhinocrates 17

    Fucking Mike “I agree with Matthew” Williams. Jesus Aitch Fucking Christ in a Tutu, can’t they find anyone other than this tired old joke? How the Hell do those idiots at RNZ think that he represents “the left”?

    All the “serious commentators” like Williams and Brian Edwards and Karl Du Fresne (yes, I know, some are nominally “right” and others “liberal”, but they’re all fossils) are privileged tired old men who don’t understand technology, who have no idea what’s going on, who have no idea how people truly think and behave now and can only blither about how they should have behaved in the 70s – or they’re wannabe hipsters like Russell Brown.

    The Nats are outmanoeuvring them because it’s just too damned easy with these has-beens still pushing themselves into the spotlight.

  18. Rich 18

    Greenpeace – that’s the chugging corporate that sponsors a bit of political campaigning, right?

    • Pascal's bookie 18.1

      Well done Rich! You managed to read a post, and work out how to comment, and it only took you a week.

      Gold star for your chart young fella, and Santa might bring you a biscuit.

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Wave of support for Kiwibuild continues to grow
    Apartment builder Ockham Residential has become the latest voice to call for the government to build affordable homes for Kiwi families to buy, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Helen O'Sullivan of Ockham has now joined prominent businesspeople like EMA ...
    1 day ago
  • Cuba Si Yankee No – Fidel Castro and the Revolution
    The death of Fidel Castro is a huge historical moment for the older generation who grew up with the toppling of Batista, the Bay of Pigs debacle, the death of Che Guevara and the US blockade against Cuba. For younger ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 day ago
  • Government slashes observer coverage, fails snapper fishery
    The Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) has more than halved the number of fisheries observers in the East Coast North Island snapper trawl fishery (SNA1). This reduction in observer days, combined with major failures in an unproven and controversial video ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    1 day ago
  • ‘Exemplar’ Māori Land Court under siege
    TheMāori Land Court, hailed as an “exemplar” by the Ministry of Justice chief executive and Secretary, Andrew Bridgman is under siege by the Government through Māori land reforms and a Ministry restructure, says Labour’s Ikaroa-Rāwhiti MP Meka Whaitiri. ...
    1 day ago
  • He Poroporoaki ki a Te Awanuiārangi Black
    Kua hinga he whatukura o Tauranga Moana. Kua hinga rangatira o te iwi Māori. Ka tangi tonu ana te ngākau nā tāna wehe kei tua o te ārai. E rere haere ana ngā mihi aroha o mātou o Te Rōpū ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    1 day ago
  • CYF reforms ignoring whānau based solution
    When approximately 60 per cent of children in state care are Māori processes need to change in favour of whānau, hapū and iwi solutions, said Labour’s Whānau Ora spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta.  “Widespread concern about Government reforms of Child Youth and ...
    2 days ago
  • Hip and knees surgery takes a tumble
    The statistics for hip and knee electives under this Government make depressing reading, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King.  “Under the last Labour Government we achieved a 91 per cent growth in hip and knee elective surgery. Sadly under this ...
    2 days ago
  • Parata’s spin can’t hide cuts to early childhood education
    No amount of spin from Hekia Parata can hide the fact that per-child funding for early childhood education has been steadily decreasing under the National government, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “In the 2009/10 year early childhood services received ...
    2 days ago
  • Nats will jump at chance to vote for KiwiBuild Bill
    National will welcome the chance to vote for a real solution to the housing crisis after their many, many failed attempts, says Labour MP for Te Tai Tokerau Kelvin Davis. Kelvin Davis’s Housing Corporation (Affordable Housing Development) Amendment Bill was ...
    2 days ago
  • Million dollar houses put homeownership out of reach of middle New Zealand
    35% of New Zealanders now live in places where the average house costs over a million dollars, and it’s killing the Kiwi dream of owning your own place, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. Latest QV stats show that Queenstown ...
    2 days ago
  • Opportunity for political parties to back Kiwi-made and Kiwi jobs
    The First Reading in Parliament today of his Our Work, Our Future Bill is a chance for political parties to ensure the government buys Kiwi-made more often and backs Kiwi jobs, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. The reading ...
    2 days ago
  • Solid Energy must open the drift
    Solid Energy is showing no moral spine and should not have any legal right to block re-entry into the Pike River drift, says Damien O’Connor MP for West Coast-Tasman.  “Todays failed meeting with  representatives from the state owned company is ...
    3 days ago
  • 20,000 at risk students “missing”
    A briefing to the Minister of Education reveals 20,000 at-risk students can’t be found, undermining claims by Hekia Parata that a new funding model would ensure additional funding reached students identified as at-risk, says Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins. ...
    3 days ago
  • Crime continues to rise
    Overall crime is up five per cent and the Government just doesn’t seem to care, says Labour’s Police Spokesperson Stuart Nash. ...
    3 days ago
  • Treasury fritters $10 million on failed state house sell off
    The Treasury has wasted $10 million in two years on the National Government's flawed state house sell off programme, including nearly $5.5 million on consultants, says Labour Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. "New Zealand needs more state housing than ever, with ...
    3 days ago
  • National slow to learn new trade lessons post TPPA
    Yesterday, the Minister for Trade misused economic data in order to try to make the case for more so-called ‘trade agreements’ like the TPPA which are actually deregulatory straitjackets in disguise. In welcoming a Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade ...
    GreensBy Barry Coates
    3 days ago
  • Skilled migrant wages plummeting under National
    Wages have plummeted for people with skilled migrant visas working in low-skilled occupations, driving down wages for workers in a number of industries, says Labour’s Immigration Spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway. “Documents acquired by Labour under the Official Information Act reveal that ...
    3 days ago
  • Child abuse apology needed
    The Government's failure to act on recommendations from Judge Henwood, based on years of work by the Confidential Listening and Assistance Service (CLAS) will further undermine any faith victims may have put into the process, says Labour’s Children’s Spokesperson Jacinda ...
    3 days ago
  • Reserve Bank again highlights National’s housing failure
    National’s failure to deal with the housing crisis in New Zealand is once again being exposed by the Reserve Bank today, in a scathing assessment of the Government’s response, says Labour Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson “Governor Wheeler is clearly worried ...
    3 days ago
  • Palm Oil Labelling: Possible Progress?
    On Friday, the Minister for Food Safety, along with her Australian colleagues finally looked at the issue of mandatory labelling of palm oil. We’ve been calling for mandatory labelling for years and we were hoping that the Ministers would agree ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers
    3 days ago
  • National: Fails to achieve
    The ineffectiveness of the National Government’s approach to schooling has been highlighted by the latest Trends in International Maths and Science Study (TIMSS) report released overnight, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. ...
    3 days ago
  • Faster into Homes – a new pathway for first home buyers
    This week Parliament will select another members’ bill from the cookie tin (I kid you not, it really is a cookie tin) and I’ve just launched a new bill I’m hoping will get pulled – to help people get into ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    3 days ago
  • Selling off our state housing stock isn’t working for NZers
    I want to end homelessness and ensure that everyone has a warm, safe, dry home. This National Government has let down New Zealanders, especially the thousands of New Zealanders who are struggling with something so basic and important as housing. ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    3 days ago
  • Government needs to ensure fair deal on EQC assessments
    Kiwis affected by earthquakes might not get a fair deal if the Government pushes ahead with secret plans to let private insurers take over the assessment of claims, says Labour’s Canterbury spokesperson Megan Woods. “Under questioning from Labour the Government ...
    4 days ago
  • Key’s priorities the real ‘load of nonsense’
    The Prime Minister’s fixation with tax cuts, despite a failure to pay down any debt and growing pressure on public services is the real ‘load of nonsense’, says Labour Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson.  “We’re getting mixed messages from National. John ...
    4 days ago
  • Free Speech and Hate Speech
    Last week we were very concerned to hear that an Auckland imam, Dr Anwar Sahib, had been preaching divisive and derogatory messages about Jewish people and women during his sermons. It was a disturbing incident coming at the end of ...
    GreensBy James Shaw
    4 days ago
  • Young Kiwis struggling under record mortgage debt
    The Government needs to step in and start building affordable homes for first homebuyers now more than ever, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. ...
    4 days ago
  • Tairāwhiti says No Stat Oil!
    Tairāwhiti says yes to a clean environment for our mokopuna today and for generations to come. Tairāwhiti are have a responsibility to uphold their mana motuhake over their land and their peoples and are calling on the Government to honour ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    5 days ago
  • Swimmable Rivers tour – Ōkahukura/Lucas Creek
    When Environment Minister Nick Smith said in Parliament that some waterways – like Auckland’s Lucas Creek – are not worth saving because no-one wants to swim in them, he forgot to ask the locals we met last week who have put ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    5 days ago
  • Wellington business relief package needs flexibility
    The Government’s Wellington business support package is welcome news but needs to be implemented so that all affected businesses get the help they need, says Labour MP for Wellington Central Grant Robertson. “Wellington businesses will be pleased that the Government ...
    5 days ago
  • EQC’s staff cuts show disregard for quake victims
    The Earthquake Commission’s stubborn insistence on slashing its workforce and its operational funding by nearly half shows callous disregard for victims of the Kaikoura earthquake and the thousands of Cantabrians still waiting to resolve claims, says Labour’s Canterbury spokesperson Megan ...
    5 days ago
  • Maori Land Court job losses must be delayed
    Māori Development Minister Te Ururoa Flavell must request that pending job losses at the Māori Land Court are put on hold until the Māori land reform process is resolved and the risk of losing centuries of collective institutional knowledge is ...
    5 days ago
  • Financial support needed for urgent earthquake strengthening
    The Government must provide urgent support to residents for important earthquake strengthening work so that it happens quickly, says Grant Robertson, Wellington Central MP.  "I support the call from Wellington Mayor Justin Lester to bring forward work to strengthen the ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour welcomes equal pay
    Labour has long appreciated the value of women’s work and welcomes the Government’s decision to address pay equity for women, say’s Labour’s associate Workplace Relations and Safety spokesperson Sue Moroney. ...
    1 week ago
  • Surgeons’ letter a damning indictment
    A letter from Waikato Hospital’s orthopaedic surgeons claiming that hospital managers are stopping them from making follow-up checks on patients is a damning indictment of the health system, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King.  “It’s terrifying that one woman’s elective ...
    1 week ago
  • Out of touch Nats continue state house sell-off
    The Government should be focused on building houses for families to buy and more state houses for families in need, not flogging them off, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. “National’s state house sell-off does nothing to help people ...
    1 week ago
  • Joyce drags feet while Capital businesses suffer
     Wellington businesses affected by the earthquake are continuing to struggle while the Government drags its feet on getting a business assistance package up and running, says Grant Robertson, Wellington Central MP.  “Steven Joyce needs to front up with an assistance ...
    1 week ago
  • Health and Safety Act fails to reduce work fatalities
    After the Pike River tragedy, New Zealanders realised that workplace health and safety culture needed to change. Last Saturday marked the 6th anniversary of the tragedy that killed 29 miners at the Pike River mine on the West Coast of ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • What is the point of education?
    The proposed Education (Update) Bill is the Government’s statement about what the point of education is, and what it means to people. This week we had a day of Select Committee hearings in Auckland on the Bill. It’s a huge ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 week ago
  • Earthquake exposes training shortfall
    Kaikoura’s earthquakes have exposed the Government’s under investment in critical building and construction skills training, says Labour’s Building and Construction spokesperson Phil Twyford. “The Government needs to urgently ramp up the training of Kiwis in construction and engineering in the ...
    1 week ago
  • More cops needed to get P off our streets
    National’s cuts to Police funding and drug enforcement officers has seen a surge in cheap P on our streets, says Labour’s Police spokesperson Stuart Nash. ...
    1 week ago
  • Who’s calling the shots? Bye bye surplus
    I would love to know who is calling the shots in the National government’s cabinet when it comes to deciding how best to spend taxpayers’ money.  On the evidence of the last few weeks, it definitely isn’t Finance Minister Bill ...
    GreensBy David Clendon
    1 week ago
  • Urgent rethink needed on workplace safety
      An urgent rethink is needed on the Government’s new workplace safety laws with the number of deaths this year already at the same level as at the same time in the 2015 calendar year, says Labour’s Associate Workplace Safety ...
    1 week ago
  • Rubble and rubbish: spending time in post-quake Kaikōura
    I visited Kaikoura over the weekend – basically to see how the community was coping with all the rubbish and rubble created by last week’s 7.8 magnitude earthquake, and to see my brother Rob. I may have mentioned before that ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • Time to pull the plug on state house sell-off
    The collapse of the planned sell-off of state houses in Horowhenua is an opportunity for the Government to call time on its troubled state house sell off policy, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Treasury sounds warning bell – but National’s not listening
    Today's long term fiscal outlook issued by The Treasury is a welcome wake-up call on the need to dramatically improve and diversify our economy and properly plan for the future, Grant Robertson, Labour’s Finance Spokesperson says. “Through our Future of Work ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Don’t believe the hype – debt has skyrocketed under National
    The reckless dangling of tax cuts by the National Government is all the more irresponsible when it is put alongside the failure to pay down debt or put money aside for future superannuation costs, says Labour’s Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Our kids deserve better
    We don’t know how many children are affected by having learning support needs. I do know that far too many children are not getting the support they deserve for conditions like autism, dyslexia, and dyspraxia. When these conditions are not ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    2 weeks ago
  • Talk of tax cuts is plain crazy
      John Key’s talk of tax cuts when the Government has $63 billion of debt, superannuation costs are rising by $1 billion a year and the cost of meeting another natural disaster, is just plain crazy, says Labour Leader Andrew ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Green policies support Labour’s housing plan
    The Green Party’s housing package is a welcome complement to Labour’s plan to fix the housing crisis, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. “It’s clear that, to get the affordable homes we need and save the Kiwi dream of ...
    2 weeks ago

Today is the day of the Mt Roskill by-election. To be safe under the legislation, there will be no further comment on that election until after the polls close at 7pm. Transgressors will receive lengthy bans.