web analytics

Myth-busting: benefits

Written By: - Date published: 11:44 am, September 13th, 2012 - 47 comments
Categories: benefits - Tags:

Some excellent myth-busting via Facebook. What isn’t a myth is that there are 80,000 more people on benefits under National. As with their economic management (which is integrally related) their management of the welfare system has been a complete disaster. They’ve given people no option but the benefit. They’re punishing people for falling into the safety net.

47 comments on “Myth-busting: benefits ”

  1. Uturn 1

    Facts? No no, you must have the wrong country. How are facts going to help NZders hate beneficiaries?

  2. Rupert the Beer 2

    Also busts the myth that the Alliance is dead:

  3. Tiger Mountain 3

    In a truly civil society (but that’s socialism! oh the horror!) everyone should be on a mutual benefit. Most of us are already one way or another when you figure in if you use roads, transport, health care, communication, sewerage systems etc. Humans tend to run collectively in real life. It is capitalism, private appropriation of socially produced wealth that is holding the 99% back.

    Even populist capitalist Gareth Morgan supports a UBI (Universal Basic Income) for all citizens and while he like the original proponents Keith Rankin and Sue Bradford and various advocacy groups acknowledge the delivery, income abatement and tax details remain to be worked out; an assessement of what work, paid, unpaid or precarious is in this century needs to happen.

  4. terryg 4

    slightly unrelated: the rules state:
    Attacking the blog site, or attributing a mind to a machine (ie talking about The Standard as if it had an opinion), or trying to imply that the computer that runs the site has some kind of mind control over authors and commentators is not allowed.

    but the author if this blog post is “The Standard”

    So Lyn can get all pissy at anyone who dares refer to an author as “the standard” a-la the rules, yet there are often posts authored ny “the standard”

    Elementary Sesame-Street Theory applies here: One of these things is not like the other.

    Consistency: try it sometime, its useful

    • Uturn 4.1

      terry, terry, terry. oh my gosh.

    • weka 4.2

      I do hope Lprent has time to reply to that.

    • lprent 4.3

      Click on the author name. You will find that the underlying name of that ‘author’ “notices and features”


      There are hundreds of posts using that handle over the years.

      It is used for putting material in that none of our authors have written and hasn’t been written for this site by a guest poster. In other words that doesn’t ‘belong’ to any individual. We are just reflecting whatever the content is and no author on this site is offering opinion in it – including the programs that run the site.

      The problem was that in the earlier versions of the site that ‘name’ caused some really irritating layout issues because it was too long. So we couldn’t think of a good shorter alias – so we just used “The Standard” which got rid of the layout problem

      But I am tired of answering the dumb question which really is simply being nitpicking and pedantic rather than looking at what the policy says. So I just changed the display name for the author back to “notices and features”. The layout should handle it ok

      Every post authored by “The Standard” is now authored by “notices and features”. Happy now? And what difference does it make?


      • BernyD 4.3.1

        You should just keep using “The Standard”.
        It’s not like you’re personifying anything
        Notices and Features make me think personal adds.
        NEWS might even be better.

        • lprent

          Not really news. We put meeting notices there. Copies of posts from other sites. Regular posts like OpenMike. In fact anything that isn’t a post by an author of a original guest post

          A good description would probably be “SUNDRY”

          • BernyD

            Can you just drop the “By” tag completely ? and just have a category link.
            U could use a Categories like SUNDRY,WELFARE etc, it’d be nice to have a categorised link to click so you can see other relevent articles.
            It’s a great way to come up to speed with articles by authors.
            But written by “The Standard” is still worthy and relevant.

            • McFlock

              Super-sarcastic way of getting around the “oo but the policy says X and the post is signed by TS, I’m concerned about your consistency … yadda yadda yadda” comments:
              Create a person-sounding pseudonym such as “jimbob sez” that implies consistent authorship of sundry posts. Doesn’t matter if it’s true.
              Mind you, it’s been a while since I last read a concern comment. 

            • Lanthanide

              There are already categories and tags that you can click on, in addition to the author, and you’ll get all posts that are in that category or have that tag. The author is just another way to slice and dice the database.

        • blue leopard

          +1 I agree “Notices and Features” sounds ‘orrible.

      • Lanthanide 4.3.2

        Glad you finally changed it, Lyn.

        “And what difference does it make?”

        Now your policy section actually makes sense: anyone who refers to “the standard” as being an author has absolutely no legitimacy in doing so.

        • terryg

          precisely. Thanks Lyn.

        • lprent


          BTW: on the subject of being pedantic. I’m Lynn. My partner’s name is Lyn – she is short on an ‘n’ and even has the sweatshirt to comment on it. It says “only one n”. Her students gave her one to distinguish from yet another Lynn… And of course we live in Grey Lynn.

  5. ianmac 5

    The Republicans in some States are changing the eligibility rules for voters. They use the excuse that to prevent voter fraud they must make it very difficult to get on the electoral roll and by doing so disenfranchise a huge proportion of especially poor people. (Voter fraud is proven to be negligible.)

    The National Government is changing the eligibility rules for Beneficiaries. They use the excuse that the system is full of Bludgers and long term abusers, so that they can disenfranchise as many as possible, especially children, by making it as difficult as possible to qualify. (Beneficiary Fraud is negligible.)

    Spot the difference?

    • weka 5.1

      What eligibility rules?

      • ianmac 5.1.1

        Tested drug free, ready to work, child enrolled at ECE at 3, not on the run. Perhaps all those things are desirable but the stick involved, like cutting allowances is bad news. Check the black list above. Like the Republicans, let’s exaggerate the apparent problem to justify the draconian assault on kids.
        In an ideal world we would all be bright well educated well motivated but we are not all like that, sadly and we have to accept the frailty of a minority. Perhaps the Spartans had the right idea. Newborn kids to be placed on the ground outside the walls. If they survived they would be looked after but then taken from their families at age 4 and sent to a sort of military school to be hardened up. But don’t tell Paula Bennett about that.

        • mike e

          National are Fact free fuckwits!

        • mike e

          National bullshiting bill English say there 54,000 new jobs created Household labour survey.
          Statistics Dept says we lost 58,000since National came to power well the house hold labour survey is not accurate its heresay.

          • blue leopard

            …probably the 54,000 new jobs are the extra WINZ staff required in response to Nats policies
            (…sorry I repeat myself from another thread, but….!)

          • Carol

            The HLF Survey monitors people saying they are in or out of work…. nothing about whether jobs are actually created, or whether they are part time or working on a limited term contract.

  6. blue leopard 6

    I do regularly wonder about the veracity of the numbers we are given citing the costs of welfare in this country.

    One question being: considering welfare benefits are taxed, are the numbers the public are given re the costs spent on welfare those before after tax?

    • McFlock 6.1

      lol good point

    • Balanced View 6.2

      Does it matter? Surely this is completely missing the point?

      • fatty 6.2.1

        True…the point is not how much welfare costs, the point is to stigmatise those who haven’t been provided jobs

        • Balanced View

          And now you’ve missed the point.
          It is up to each of us to earn employment – not to be provided it (or anything else for that matter)

          • Colonial Viper

            The Government needs to assert a policy of full employment.

            If the private sector is unwilling (or unable) to provide the jobs that society needs, then it must set aside and let the Government fill the gap.

            A full time job is the right of every working age NZer.

            Balanced View’s “leave’m to the wolves to see who survives” attitude belongs to the 17th century.

          • blue leopard

            Balanced View

            Considering most people are not self employed, they are employed by another, your comment misses the facts; i.e. most people are “provided” employment.

            As for what the figures are; I don’t appreciate the NZ public being told that welfare is costing “X” amount
            when X amount = Costs plus a double accounting feature where the Government taxes its own tax revenue.

            I would prefer a Government that was less fixated on welfare and fallacious accounting methods and reports based on such and more interested in creating an environment where NZers were given the dignity of being able to provide for their own livelihood.

            This is not so very difficult. How about lowering the working week?

            **Yes that’s right, lets all share the receding job opportunities.** This way everyone would start appreciating just how much dignity and freedom that they take for granted when whinging on about the great and terrible unemployed and underpaid ones.

  7. Bob 7

    The great author ‘Notices and Features’ states “What isn’t a myth is that there are 80,000 more people on benefits under National. As with their economic management (which is integrally related) their management of the welfare system has been a complete disaster” yet in the ‘Benefit myth busting: Take a new look at the statistics’ figure provided, point 6 states “Over the past decade the number of people on benefits dropped and has only dropped in the past 3 years after the recession hit”. So it looks like the great author ‘Notices and Features’ is blaming National for something that his/her own post immediately refutes.

    Just saying……

    • Balanced View 7.1

      And in fact have dropped in the last two years

      • fatty 7.1.1

        well done, you’ve pointed out the fact that many people have left to Australia to find work. Except you forgot to mention they left for Australia.

        • Balanced View

          Really? And I was under the impression that it was the skilled that were leaving current employment to work in similar conditions in Australia for more money??
          It just gets so confusing to keep up with the current argument…….

      • Bob 7.1.2

        Watch out Balanced View, they don’t like comments like that around here, you will be asked for links and proof and when you provide them you will be told that you are an idiot that doesn’t know what they are talking about (the official MSD numbers don’t show this years figures yet, only the drop last year http://statistical-report-2011.msd.govt.nz/main+benefits/unemployment+benefits )

        • Colonial Viper

          Do you enjoy talking to yourself in the mirror?

          • Bob

            I was actually having a nice insult free conversation with Balanced View before you showed up, informing him/her to watch out for the likes of you and then, like magic, there you are.
            How’s life treating you CV?

        • lprent

          There is a quite a difference between payments for unemployment and the number of unemployed.

          To diminish the former all you have to do is to make it harder to get on unemployment, easier to kick people off, and move people to other benefits (all of which this government has exerted effort doing). To the decrease the actual number of unemployed or people looking for jobs, the number of jobs relative to the working age population have not. That hasn’t, and this government has been working assiduously with laziness making sure that it doesn’t either now or into the future.

          So currently they’re busy putting us all into debt by paying for unemployment to a few, while making sure that there aren’t the jobs to pay back the debt in the future. For some strange reason they think that the the great being “the market” will provide. Well I say unto you that “the market” helps them who help themselves and these lazy idiots in government won’t.

          But you sound like a bookkeeper. These may be a concepts that are too difficult for you to grasp…

          • Draco T Bastard

            Benefit-slaying Nats starting to look plain nasty

            Every announcement is framed – much like the Paula Rebstock-chaired welfare group recommendations that provide their philosophical spine – as an “encouragement” for beneficiaries to enter the workforce. But this is encouragement by pitchfork. And with every fresh push that pesky question keeps cropping up: yeah, but where are the jobs?

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2

      “Over the past decade the number of people on benefits dropped and has only dropped in the past 3 years after the recession hit”

      That’s an outright lie. What it really says is:

      Over the past decade the number of people on benefits dropped and has only increased in the past 3 years after the recession hit.

      And which NACT have done nothing to correct for except blame the victims of the banksters.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Celebrating the Entry Into Force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons
    [Opening comments, welcome and thank you to Auckland University etc] It is a great pleasure to be here this afternoon to celebrate such an historic occasion - the entry into force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. This is a moment many feared would never come, but ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Supporting disabled people to stay connected
    The Government is providing $3 million in one-off seed funding to help disabled people around New Zealand stay connected and access support in their communities, Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni announced today. The funding will allow disability service providers to develop digital and community-based solutions over the next two ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Voluntary saliva testing offered to quarantine workers from Monday
    Border workers in quarantine facilities will be offered voluntary daily COVID-19 saliva tests in addition to their regular weekly testing, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. This additional option will be rolled out at the Jet Park Quarantine facility in Auckland starting on Monday 25 January, and then to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Next steps in firearms buy-back
    The next steps in the Government’s ambitious firearms reform programme to include a three-month buy-back have been announced by Police Minister Poto Williams today.  “The last buy-back and amnesty was unprecedented for New Zealand and was successful in collecting 60,297 firearms, modifying a further 5,630 firearms, and collecting 299,837 prohibited ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • New Public Housing Plan announced
    The Government has released its Public Housing Plan 2021-2024 which outlines the intention of where 8,000 additional public and transitional housing places announced in Budget 2020, will go. “The Government is committed to continuing its public house build programme at pace and scale. The extra 8,000 homes – 6000 public ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Prime Minister congratulates President Joe Biden on his inauguration
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated President Joe Biden on his inauguration as the 46th President of the United States of America. “I look forward to building a close relationship with President Biden and working with him on issues that matter to both our countries,” Jacinda Ardern said. “New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Jobs for Nature funding will create training and employment opportunities
    A major investment to tackle wilding pines in Mt Richmond will create jobs and help protect the area’s unique ecosystems, Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor says. The Mt Richmond Forest Park has unique ecosystems developed on mineral-rich geology, including taonga plant species found nowhere else in the country. “These special plant ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Pre-departure testing extended to all passengers to New Zealand
    To further protect New Zealand from COVID-19, the Government is extending pre-departure testing to all passengers to New Zealand except from Australia, Antarctica and most Pacific Islands, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “The change will come into force for all flights arriving in New Zealand after 11:59pm (NZT) on Monday ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Bay Cadets learn skills to protect environment
    Bay Conservation Cadets launched with first intake Supported with $3.5 million grant Part of $1.245b Jobs for Nature programme to accelerate recover from Covid Cadets will learn skills to protect and enhance environment Environment Minister David Parker today welcomed the first intake of cadets at the launch of the Bay ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Cook Islanders to resume travel to New Zealand
    The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Mark Brown have announced passengers from the Cook Islands can resume quarantine-free travel into New Zealand from 21 January, enabling access to essential services such as health. “Following confirmation of the Cook Islands’ COVID ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Supporting communities and landowners to grow employment opportunities
    Jobs for Nature funding is being made available to conservation groups and landowners to employ staff and contractors in a move aimed at boosting local biodiversity-focused projects, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan has announced. It is estimated some 400-plus jobs will be created with employment opportunities in ecology, restoration, trapping, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Border exception for some returning international tertiary students
    The Government has approved an exception class for 1000 international tertiary students, degree level and above, who began their study in New Zealand but were caught offshore when border restrictions began. The exception will allow students to return to New Zealand in stages from April 2021. “Our top priority continues ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Tiwai deal gives time for managed transition
    Today’s deal between Meridian and Rio Tinto for the Tiwai smelter to remain open another four years provides time for a managed transition for Southland. “The deal provides welcome certainty to the Southland community by protecting jobs and incomes as the region plans for the future. The Government is committed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New member for APEC Business Advisory Council
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has appointed Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). The leader of each APEC economy appoints three private sector representatives to ABAC. ABAC provides advice to leaders annually on business priorities. “ABAC helps ensure that APEC’s work programme is informed by business community perspectives ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt’s careful economic management recognised
    The Government’s prudent fiscal management and strong policy programme in the face of the COVID-19 global pandemic have been acknowledged by the credit rating agency Fitch. Fitch has today affirmed New Zealand’s local currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook and foreign currency rating at AA with a positive ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Additional actions to keep COVID-19 out of NZ
    The Government is putting in place a suite of additional actions to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, including new emerging variants, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “Given the high rates of infection in many countries and evidence of the global spread of more transmissible variants, it’s clear that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • 19 projects will clean up and protect waterways
    $36 million of Government funding alongside councils and others for 19 projects Investment will clean up and protect waterways and create local jobs Boots on the ground expected in Q2 of 2021 Funding part of the Jobs for Nature policy package A package of 19 projects will help clean up ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand Government acknowledges 175th anniversary of Battle of Ruapekapeka
    The commemoration of the 175th anniversary of the Battle of Ruapekapeka represents an opportunity for all New Zealanders to reflect on the role these conflicts have had in creating our modern nation, says Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Kiri Allan. “The Battle at Te Ruapekapeka Pā, which took ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Better care for babies with tongue-tie
    Babies born with tongue-tie will be assessed and treated consistently under new guidelines released by the Ministry of Health, Associate Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. Around 5% to 10% of babies are born with a tongue-tie, or ankyloglossia, in New Zealand each year. At least half can ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Prisoner disorder event at Waikeria Prison over
    The prisoner disorder event at Waikeria Prison is over, with all remaining prisoners now safely and securely detained, Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis says. The majority of those involved in the event are members of the Mongols and Comancheros. Five of the men are deportees from Australia, with three subject to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Pre-departure COVID-19 test for travellers from the UK and the US from 15 January
    Travellers from the United Kingdom or the United States bound for New Zealand will be required to get a negative test result for COVID-19 before departing, and work is underway to extend the requirement to other long haul flights to New Zealand, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins confirmed today. “The new PCR test requirement, foreshadowed last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago