web analytics

National lose majority

Written By: - Date published: 2:18 pm, October 4th, 2014 - 215 comments
Categories: election 2014 - Tags:

Official results. From The Herald:

Final election result
National: 47.04 (60 seats)
Labour: 25.13 (32)
Green: 10.70 (14)
New Zealand First: 8.66 (11)
Maori Party: 1.32 (2)
Act Party: 0.69 (1)
United Future: 0.22 (1)
Conservative: 3.97 (0)
Internet Mana: 1.42 (0)

Some highlights:

National loses a seat
Greens gain a seat
Andrew Little is safe

Props to mickysavage for accurate predictions. (No doubt evidence that The Standard is leaked top secret data from the Electoral Commission – wooo see Labour does it too Dirty Politics! That was a joke by the way, r0b.)

Updated with some tweets:

https://twitter.com/danylmc/status/518222427835215872

215 comments on “National lose majority”

  1. Richies McClaw 1

    Granted a cynical observation would hold that Nats and ACT are ultimately no different (essentially a good cop and bad cop act), this is actually harmful for the vulnerable given that it increases the leverage of the ACT party.

    • karol 1.1

      Seymour must surely be a weak link being so inexperienced and given responsibilities immediately…?

      • ghostwhowalksnz 1.1.1

        Plus hes a dick to boot- did you see him sitting waiting waiting waiting for Jetstar flight after election.
        He was opposed to ‘state airlines’ on principle.

        • Lanthanide 1.1.1.1

          “He was opposed to ‘state airlines’ on principle.”

          We’ll see how long that opposition lasts, when IIRC government employees get free flights on Air NZ but not on any of the others…

          • alwyn 1.1.1.1.1

            Politicians can travel, without limit and regardless of the cost of a fare, on any airline they like within New Zealand I believe.
            What does IIRC mean by the way?

            • Lanthanide 1.1.1.1.1.1

              If I Recall Correctly.

              Anyway, even if that is the case, I’m sure he’ll end up flying on AirNZ at least occasionally, due to convenience.

              • dv

                Maybe 49% of the time as that is the public ownership!!!

              • alwyn

                I would certainly hope so. At least there is a reasonable chance that the flight will take place. Personally I will never fly with Jetstar, no matter how low the fare. I want to see the plane take off with me on board. And, I will point out, I pay for my own fares.
                Thanks for the explanation of IIRC. I didn’t think of that.

              • CnrJoe

                Lanth – do you mean – ‘A,EITTC, I’m sure he’ll end up flying on Air N…..?’ ;- )

                • Kiwiri

                  And people should take pictures of him going into and hanging out at Air NZ’ s Koru Club.

          • ghostwhowalksnz 1.1.1.1.2

            Thats what he may have alluded to, when Seymour was heard to mutter- “public servants telling him what to do”-

            Maybe they were saying we have a discount deal only with Air NZ.

            You can see just how jumped up this pretentious little electrical engineer is !

        • Murray Olsen 1.1.1.2

          To show his Randian independence, he shovels more state money towards a private business. What a total wanker.

      • Jenny Kirk 1.1.2

        Seymour definitely a weak link but given a helping hand by not having to answer questions in the House or being subject to Official Info Act !

      • lurgee 1.1.3

        Seymour must surely be a weak link being so inexperienced and given responsibilities immediately…?

        Seymour’s there to front unpopular policies. He won’t mind taking the shit for it, because he’s getting paid an awful lot of money and isn’t going to lose popularity. It is hard to imagine the good people of Epsom getting too upset if the Nat-ACT government push through bulk funding, wreck the Teachers’ Council, scrap the decile grading system and pick a fight with the teaching unions.

      • Tracey 1.1.4

        those on the right of national will whisper in his ear.

        douglas is still troughing his way through his and his wifes free travel.

    • Lanthanide 1.2

      “this is actually harmful for the vulnerable given that it increases the leverage of the ACT party.”

      Act never had any leverage based on the previous results and this doesn’t change that.

      What it does do, is give National a fig-leaf they can use to blame unpopular policies on Act. When they had an outright majority, they necessarily had to own the consequences of all legislation passed. But now if there are particular parts people are unhappy with, they can blame their support parties instead.

    • Paul Campbell 1.3

      But the ACT and UF electoral seats are essentially overhang seats, if the Nats were forced to win Epsom they would get one less list seat – I think that what the Nats did to Hone/IMK is fair game for Epsom next time around – force ACT out to reduce the Nat’s coalition

      Equally if Labour were smart they’d get Hone back next time – trading an electoral seat for a list seat but increasing their coalition by one

      The thing is that even without the 5% rule you can increase your coalition by forcing overhangs in electoral seats (especially if you get the coalition partner to give his/her electoral votes to you or your coalition) – it’s what National is doing with Act/UF today

  2. karol 2

    And this that I posted on the other thread:

    Overall, Green Party vote dropped by 0.9% compared with 2011. Labour dropped in party vote by 2.35%

    NZ First went up by about 2%.

    UF, ACT & Maori Party went up a fraction.

    Conservatives went up dropped by about 1.3%

    Nats dropped by 2.7%

    • Saarbo 2.1

      Actual % drops then equate to:

      Greens dropped 11.88% and Labour dropped 9.35%…why aren’t people attacking the greens for their drop since 2011, it was actually bigger than Labours % wise.

      What this clearly illustrates is that the Left vote failed, and David Cunliffe is taking the heat. If Cunliffe is taking the heat on the drop f the labour vote by9.35% why aren’t Metiria and Russel taking the heat fro Greens dropping 11.88%…a very weird double standard here.

      • Murray Olsen 2.1.1

        Russel Norman reflected the heat to Dotcom, Harré, and Hone. He seems to be about as good as Key at accepting responsibility. In fact the only person I’ve seen unreservedly accept responsibilty for all our failings is Dotcom. We all fell short and collectively need to do better in the future. Crying about Epsom or Ohariu on a daily basis just makes us look like sore losers.

  3. Colonial Viper 3

    If Greens and LAB had got another 80,000 votes combined, Key’s ability to form a government would be fucked. That’s how close it was.

    Very pissed off still that Hone and Laila are not in Parliament, and we have bloody Kelvin Davis instead.

    • weka 3.1

      so roughly 10% of the non-vote?

    • karol 3.2

      The Internet Mana share in the vote actually went up a fraction from 2011.

      So, if Hone had got in, it may have made all the difference.

      The 3 biggest parties vote share dropped, but the Greens noticeably dropped by the least. They held pretty strong.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 3.2.1

        You have lost me here. Greens are up , they are down, they have lost the least ?

        Less spin please.

        • karol 3.2.1.1

          Basically. They’ve pretty much held their ground. I’m just looking at the facts, which are kind of mixed, but don’t show any noticeable shifts – especially in comparison to Nats and Labour. They have the same number of MPs as before.

      • Yep, if Greens had withdrawn their Ohariu candidate and Labour their TTT candidate, Labour + Greens + IMP + NZF could govern.

        • karol 3.2.2.1

          In Ohariu, I think if the Greens hadn’t stood an electorate candidate, and all their electorate votes went to Labour, Labour would have got about 17,500 votes.

          The Nats would probably then have put out the word for Nat voters to vote Dunne.

          Dunne got 13, 569
          The Nat candidate got 6,120

          That would give Dunne 19,000+ votes.

          Generally, I think the Greens are not into game playing. In this case, it could just have backfired if they hadn’t stood a candidate.

          TTT is another matter as there was no Nat candidate.

          I’m not sure where Davis’s votes would have gone if Labour hadn’t stood a candidate.

          The Nats might still have put out the word to vote Maori party.

          • Matthew Whitehead 3.2.2.1.1

            Ohariu, like Epsom, has a better understanding of the electorate vote than other areas in the country, because the people there who actually understand MMP talk to their friends, colleagues, and relatives that don’t. It would probably have effected the Green vote, but I imagine it would be unlikely to make the difference between losing a seat and not losing a seat.

            But yeah, it was more a counterfactual on the point that if the Left parties had run a more co-ordinated campaign this election was a lot more winnable than the media is presenting it as having been. Especially if Labour had connected to voters better.

            • Matthew Whitehead 3.2.2.1.1.1

              And yeah, you have a good point that there may have been some degree of retalition from National electorate voters in those electorates, especially if the National Party publicises their own strategy on that matter. Obviously one small change can’t be taken in isolation, but likewise, if we had had a more co-ordinated Left-wing campaign, it may also have effected the Party Vote turnout.

              Labour’s votes in TTT would have needed to go to the Maori Party very significantly for the withdrawal of Kelvin Davis to not have brought in Hone and IMP, but I imagine it would still have been a close race given that clearly there was a certain amount of backlash among the electorate to the idea of Hone using the seat to lifeboat in other politicians who were not perceived as serving their interests.

              • karol

                I was never keen on the whole IMP development. Especially so late in the electoral cycle. Hone and Mana had developed a strong and recognisable identity. The very strong association of KDC with IMP probably just confused a lot of people, and made them wary.

                Without the IP Hone would most likely be back in parliament.

        • Tracey 3.2.2.2

          and if the labour party hadnt supidly run an electoral vote campaign in epsom

          • Matthew Whitehead 3.2.2.2.1

            Actually it would have taken the votes of both the Labour and Green electoral candidates in Epsom moving to the National Party, and no more than about 1,500 voters for the National candidate re-enforcing David Seymour to have elected Paul Goldsmith in Epsom and remove ACT from Parliament.

            I think the level of understanding to have left-wing voters vote for the National candidate in Epsom would probably have also moved a lot of Paul Goldsmith’s votes to David Seymour- polling on intended electorate candidate votes in Epsom suggests a similar effect that a significant minority (in polling it was about 11%) of electors didn’t understand that voting for David Seymour actually benefitted the government, and would have moved their votes. (There were also some who didn’t understand that but would NOT have moved their votes)

            Shifting Epsom away from ACT will definitely require more than just the Left being better at strategic voting than the Right.

            • Wayne 3.2.2.2.1.1

              If one of the major parties actually withdraws a candidate to game the system, then the others will do it too. So in Epsom if there had been no Labour or Green candidates with the objective that all the Green and Labour voters would vote for National, do you think National would do nothing. And I am also sure a lot of the Labour and Green voters would be very angry with their party if they denied them the choice of deciding how to vote.

              Fortunately those in the major parties who decide such things know that to game seats like this would be going way too far.

              There seems to be a consensus that allows a suggestion that say you need ACT, so long as you keep your own candidate in the race. That way the voters still make up their own minds.

              • Hanswurst

                I agree with this. There was a definite potential downside for Labour had it done electorate deals. It had hammered Act, National and Banks particularly on that score, with the principle of not “gaming the system” being seen as a difference between the two major parties. If Labour had then signalled deals in or close to election year, that would have given ammunition to their opponents and the media on the “tricky” front, the idea that Labour was in a mess, didn’t stand for anything, was desperate for seats and in fear that their vote would collapse, etc..

                Having said that, that isn’t the case now. Three years out from the next scheduled election, Labour can afford to put about the idea that the election was very close, and that Harawira winning a seat, with Seymour, Dunne and Flavell losing theirs would have seen a very different parliamentary makeup. They can support the “Feed the Kids” bill vocally before parliament in tandem with the Greens, and look for electorally promotable common ground between Labour, Mana and the Greens. They needn’t explicitly signal that they will do deals in any electorates, just show that they are working together consistently (on more than just electricity policy) and continually point out that these deals may have been all that kept National in power. Highlighting the charter-school mess and any other bullshit attributable to Seymour and pinning it to his face would also be a principled and decent thing to do (yes, I do mean that sentence as it is written).

                Depending on how polling stacks up a year or so out from the election, they can then start signalling that they might do a deal in the odd seat, stressing the good work they have done with the parties in question, and that it is an unavoidable step if these deals are potentially the only difference between the government benches and opposition for all of those parties. All parties of the left should then campaign on a common platform of MMP-reform to reduce the party-vote threshold and abolish the coat-tailing provision.

                In short, the Left can afford to combat National on its own terms with electorate deals, but it needs to have a clear chance of winning them the election, and it needs to be based on groundwork laid years in advance showing positive cooperation between all involved parties, rather than what could be persuasively presented as cynical gamespersonship. It also needs to be coupled with the promise to tighten up the electoral system in order to render any future use of such tactics largely ineffective.

      • Poission 3.2.3

        The 3 biggest parties vote share dropped,

        the vote ( in absolute terms) increased by 159000 voters,the 3 biggest parties combined share was 72000 or around half,a significant decrease in potential.

    • Tautoko Viper 3.4

      +1

    • cricklewood 3.5

      I doubt that Cunliffe would have been been any better placed to form a govt…

    • whateva next? 3.6

      Could we have suggested Greens asked for party vote only in ohariu, Auckland, giving Jacinda, Virginia a seat, and thus, a majority???

      • Greens always ask for the Party Vote only. They run electorate candidates as a visibility device only and do not seriously contest any electorates. (Although at this rate of growth in Green electorate votes, a couple of electorates in Wellington would go green through grassroots support alone in about 9-12 years)

        Jacinda winning a seat does not add a seat to the Labour Party total. Virginia winning a seat removes a support partner for the government, but still does not add a seat to the Labour Party total. Thus Labour winning seats off National Party support partners is important electoral strategy for Labour, only due to it removing those supporting parties from Parliament.

      • karol 3.6.2

        No. Key would probably have told the Nats to vote Dunne. The Nat candidate plus Dunne got more votes than Virginia and the Green candidate together.

        • That post wasn’t actually on whether Ohariu could be won by Labour, it was on the impacts of who wins Ohariu and why the Greens withdrawing from other electorate seats could not conceivably aid Labour in forming a government in any way.

          I thought that Key had actually officially backed Dunne for Ohariu anyway? Granted no media circus, but I think given the close polling if Key had thought it would help, he probably would have done a similar event for Dunne this election.

          • DoublePlus Good 3.6.2.1.1

            You know, the Greens could have done an electoral accommodation and voted for the National candidate in Hutt South, to get rid of Trevor Mallard. That would have been good for the left also.

        • Hanswurst 3.6.2.2

          I don’t think one can assume that all National voters would vote Dunne. I’m not sure what the voting patterns looked like on the night, but looking at the Epsom comparison, Colmar Brunton indicated in early September that about one third of National voters would be likely to vote tactically for the Act candidate, with just under half supporting the deal in principle.

          • karol 3.6.2.2.1

            Yes. But you also can’t assume that all people who voted for the GP candidate would switch to the LP candidate.

            Dunne plus the Nat candidate = 19,689

            Lab + Green candidates = 15,632

            That’s a 4,000 majority to the right.

            • whateva next? 3.6.2.2.1.1

              If a third of voters who had voted green electoral had given vote to Labour, Virginia would have won seat, so another Labour seat, (and one less for right block) and if same had happened in Auckand, that’s 2 extra seats for Labour,)another person would have got Jacinda’s list place) 1 less for National, ……but then Maori and Act would be the 2 extra to counter a Labour/Green/NZF coalition anyway…but just maybe David Seymour and Flavell may have a conscience and vote against bad stuff at least, oh if only.

    • Chooky 3.9

      +100 CV

    • lurgee 3.10

      If Greens and LAB had got another 80,000 votes combined, Key’s ability to form a government would be fucked. That’s how close it was.

      This this party called New Zealand First. You may have heard of them.

      Also, it we’re playing Fantasy Politics, the Conservatives were only 20,000 votes short of the 5% threshold.

      You can’t pleasure yourself with one scenario and ignore the other. National are unlikely to be so cavalier towards the Conservatives next time around.

      • Kiwiri 3.10.1

        The superannuation age is safe with NZ First !

      • boldsirbrian 3.10.2

        .
        @lurgee (3.10)

        National are unlikely to be so cavalier towards the Conservatives next time around.

        I don’t think DirtyJohn was cavalier. The Conservatives were so much on the lunatic side of politics that even DirtyJohn didn’t want to have anything to do with them. DirtyJohn could see that if the Conservatives got in, there is a likelihood he may have had to rely on them as a coalition partner, and introduce at least one of their policies. And there were none available that wouldn’t have made DirtyJohn look even dirtier.

      • Tom Jackson 3.10.3

        You don’t understand. The election shows that nothing has really changed.

        I used to torment the half wits at Kiwiblog with the fact that there is no electable conservative majority in NZ, and even now there still isn’t.

        This is the best election under MMP that the right has ever had, and National still had to rely on electorate seat rorts to win. The other times they’ve won post 1996 they’ve either had to do the same or nobble Winston’s chances as they did in 2008 (to nullify some of the anti-National vote). If it came to a fair election with no BS, they would lose every time.

        The Conservatives have proven unelectable on their own twice now. With all that money, and the electorate more friendly to the right than it has ever been, they still couldn’t win a seat. The only way they will ever do so is with a National Party rort like Epsom or Ohariu.

        When it comes to parties that will support the kind of right-wing free-market policies that National’s backers favour, there just aren’t enough votes to allow the right to win without trying to rort the system. On the other hand, when the parties that oppose those free market policies are doing well, they easily make it over 50% combined (and in 2002 about 60%).

        This election is supposed to have been a dominant performance by the right? Bullshit. Their elected parties (ACT and National) couldn’t even get over 50% of the vote, and could only cobble a majority together by rorting MMP.

        No wonder there was such a desperate media campaign against Labour and the IMP. The right are clinging on by their fingernails every time.

        • lurgee 3.10.3.1

          This is the best election under MMP that the right has ever had, and National still had to rely on electorate seat rorts to win.

          Not quite. The 5% threshold stopped them getting a majority that they warranted. National + Conservatives = 51% of the vote.

          So electoral seat deals balanced out the effect of the 5% threshold.

          • Tom Jackson 3.10.3.1.1

            You’re missing my point. The Conservatives – entirely of their own accord, since they were left to their own devices – didn’t make the 5% or win an electorate seat, so they are irrelevant. If National wanted them as a partner, they would have had to offer them a seat, which would have proved my point over again, which is that the parties of the right cannot win a parliamentary majority without some sort of rort or dirty tricks.

            National can’t win without rorting the MMP system, because they can’t get enough of the vote (which means enough to them and enough to their potential partners to cross the 5%) to gain a majority.

            The only time they ever did was in 1996, because Peters was dumb enough to go with them (a mistake he would not make again). That’s because the division in NZ politics is between parties that support the free marketers agenda of privatisation and so on, and those that don’t. NZF as economic nationalists do not. That’s why Peters signalled he could work with the Greens if necessary.

            Ever since MMP National has had had to rely on electorate deals and deals with centrist parties that don’t share their right wing economic views. Labour has been luckier, since it has had the Alliance, Greens and NZ First as parties that share it’s distrust of privatisation mania and cutting state services.

            For example, in 1999 the left parties won over 50% of the vote. Labour 39%; Alliance 8% and Green 5%. In 2002 Labour, the Progressives and the Greens had 50% of the vote (Labour chose to go with confidence and supply from Dunne, because they could, not because they had no alternative). In 2005 the left parties had about 47%, but Clark chose to go with Winston and Dunne again rather than the Greens. In none of these cases were there rorts of electorate seats.

            The parties of the right have never managed to get over 50% of the vote translated into parliamentary seats. They just can’t do it. In 2008 they would have been beaten again had Peters made it back into parliament, which is why they spent much of the campaign trying to suppress the NZF vote.

            The natural limit for the right wing parties that get into parliament appears to be between 47 and 48% which is about as much as National and ACT can manage at their best (and ACT’s share depends on a rort). The numbers speak for themselves. National cannot win a majority unless it either rorts the system or engages in dirty campaigning against NZF. It then has to hope that the rorts are enough (they were this time) or that it can partner with a party that doesn’t share its economic philosophy. Hence the existence of moribund parties like ACT and UF whose only function is to allow National to cheat the system.

            The left has no such problem. It has shown it is able to win an absolute majority of the vote without rorting MMP, and it can always partner with NZF which is more naturally a partner of the left, because it holds a similar antipathy towards right wing economic policies (which was the reason it was founded in the first place).

            So it turns out that Labour were right. There is a natural ceiling to the right wing vote that is well below the natural ceiling to the left wing vote. If the left can get its voters out, it will always win. National’s strategists know this, which is why we have Dirty Politics (the avowed aim of which is voter suppression).

            The numbers don’t lie.

            • Murray Olsen 3.10.3.1.1.1

              Seems entirely plausible, Tom. Now all we need is a strategy to get everyone within that natural left ceiling to actually vote. That’s the hard part, but if NAct can convince so many people to vote against their interests, we should be able to get them to vote in favour.

            • lurgee 3.10.3.1.1.2

              The parties of the right have never managed to get over 50% of the vote translated into parliamentary seats. They just can’t do it. In 2008 they would have been beaten again had Peters made it back into parliament, which is why they spent much of the campaign trying to suppress the NZF vote.

              You’re almost heroic in your avoidance of the fact that the rightwing parties won more than 50% of the vote. Only the mechanics of MMP stopped them turning that majority into seats. So getting huffy about ‘rorts’ in seats is beside the point. Under a completely proportional system, National and the Conservatives would have more than 50% of the votes and seats.

              They were only kept at bay by the vagaries of MMP. Which hurt the left as often as they hurt the right. The 5% threshold needs to go.

              • Shrubbery

                Yeah, lurgee is exactly right here – the far right got more than 50% in this election, but got less than 50% of the seats because of the unproportionality of the 5% threshold. Without that threshold, the Conservatives would have got 5-6 seats in parliament. That they aren’t represented is unfair to their voters, as it is unfair that Mana voters aren’t represented by 2 MPs
                The threshold is undemocratic.

                • The threshold is undemocratic.

                  That’s a separate argument. I’m not claiming that under some other system than the one we have that the right can’t get a majority without rorts, but that under the system we actually have, that they can’t get a majority without rorts.

                  People can deny this all they want, but the numbers don’t lie. There appears to be a natural ceiling to the right wing vote for electable parties (i.e. parties that can win a seat or make the 5% threshold on their own).

                  If you want to deny this, then show me one NZ election in which the parties of the right have a combined result of above 47-48% which is comprised of votes only from parties that got into parliament without being gifted a seat by a National rort.

                  You can’t, because no such result exists in NZ under MMP.

                  If you ask the same question for the left, there are multiple occasions in which the left has managed a result above that without any dodgy deals. In our system of government, the natural ceiling for the left vote for electable parties is somewhere between 5-7% higher than that for the right vote, and the natural ceiling for the anti free market vote is 60%. For the right it appears to be 47%, because they can’t get more into parliament without rorts.

              • You’re almost heroic in your avoidance of the fact that the rightwing parties won more than 50% of the vote. Only the mechanics of MMP stopped them turning that majority into seats.

                Perhaps you should learn to read, or are you purposely being obtuse? We don’t have a completely proportional system.

                As I said, the parties of the right cannot get a majority in parliament without rorts. The mechanics of MMP did indeed stop the right getting an outright majority. That’s my point: with MMP the way it is, they can’t win without rorting the system.

                The fact remains that National cannot get enough votes on its own to constitute a majority. It so happens that there are no other right wing parties who are capable of getting to 5% on their own, so National has to cheat the system to ensure that the vote of those parties is not lost. There appears to be a ceiling of about 47-48% that the right can get without gaming the system. The left can get more and have done so on multiple occasions.

                This is the fact:

                UNDER THE ELECTORAL SYSTEM WE HAVE THE RIGHT CANNOT MUSTER ENOUGH SUPPORT FOR A PARLIAMENTARY MAJORITY WITHOUT GAMING THE SYSTEM.

                It’s that simple.

        • Mark 3.10.3.2

          One suspects the halfwits at Kiwiblog are still feeling pretty smug after this election result despite the 1 seat loss by National

    • Jenk 3.11

      Me too CV re TTT and did you notice that NZ First’s Party vote in TTT for 2014 is almost twice that in 2008. Was THAT why Winston gave the nod to Kelvin Davis ? a deal ? ? ?

    • Cave Johnson 3.12

      @lurgee Which highlights that this election was actually a relatively narrow defeat for the centre-left (incl NZF) rather than a rout.

      • Kiwiri 3.12.1

        which highlights that this election was actually a relatively narrow defeat for the centre-left

        I have no doubt that, given some elements of the restrictive and challenging circumstances (e.g. intra-party with the odd few belligerent caucus members, inter-relationship with progressive parties, and the battle against combined corporatised support-right wing MSM-dirty politics-cum-John Key forces), Cunliffe did run a very good campaign.

        A longer lead-in period for the new leader, a skilful mix of team advisors and staff, more time for Cunliffe to have face-to-face town hall and board room meetings, a revised policy agenda (sorry, Parker is not cut out as a consensus-building social-democratic parliamentarian who listens and who does the job helping to organise as deputy), soft media ‘smile and wave’ type of public image being developed for Cunliffe, etc, would have further enhanced Labour’s campaign.

        A Shearer-led Labour would have been disastrous (but the silver lining for progressives would have been the Greens getting a few more MPs), a Shane Jones-led party (well, that was never going to happen) ….., and Robertson would have been thrashed by John Key.

        So, thanks Maryan Street, and thanks to the democratised caucus-membership-affiliates voting in Sep ’13.

  4. swordfish 4

    Many of us have been saying for weeks that the Specials should see the overall Labour and Green % rise and National’s fall. Many of us have been aware that the Nats might just lose a seat and the Greens pick one up if the Specials fell in the roughly the same pattern as last time.

    And yet we’ve had this nonsense in the MSM, day after day, that the Nats’ have – against all precedence – improved on 2011 to 48%, that, astonishingly, they can govern alone, and that Labour’s down on 24% (also repeated endlessly by Grant Robertson and his supporters), despite the fact that – even on the Preliminary result – they should have been rounded up to 25%

    A bit of patience and honesty wouldn’t have come amiss.

    • Lanthanide 4.1

      +100

      • Saarbo 4.1.1

        +1%

        That rounding error really pissed me of for some reason…and the Greens dropped by a bigger % than Labour but no Leadership issues in the Green Party. The drop in the Left vote can only be put down to Dotcom because that really is the only significant factor that changed between 2011 and 2014.

    • Stifflittlefinger 4.2

      Holy scheisse batman
      Break out the balloons. Cunliffe got 25% not 24.7%
      Celebrate good times cmon.

      • swordfish 4.2.1

        Accuracy, sweet-pea, accuracy. It’s what journalists are supposed to do. Particularly when it’s something as momentous as to whether or not a Party can govern alone.

      • If you’re rounding a number to a whole, you should round to the nearest percent. It’s pretty reasonable as a request.

    • Anne 4.3

      Many of us have been saying for weeks that the Specials should see the overall Labour and Green % rise and National’s fall.

      Yep. My own conclusion was: a significant portion of the specials come from overseas, and therefore are less likely to be influenced by the ‘Dirty Politics’ being conducted by the Nats, and the relentless media anti – Labour and Green crap we’ve had to endure for the past three years.

      Interesting result in more ways than one.

    • Tracey 4.4

      i enjoy y your contributions.

  5. Barfly 5

    AND if the left had played the MMP game better ……perhaps no “rotten borough” Epsom and Ohariu seats and 2 IMP seats hmmm……

    • ghostwhowalksnz 5.1

      Wrong to assume that all votes would move automatically to another candidate if you dont run.
      Greens should get out of the electorate vote business, its killing their chances of increasing party vote.

      • karol 5.1.1

        The Greens need to run electorate candidates to give them local visibility. if they didn’t run electorate candidates, their party vote would most likely drop.

        They make it clear they are campaigning for the party vote. A lot of the problem is that many voters don’t understand that it is most often the party vote that is crucial – need more educating.

        • Chooky 5.1.1.1

          well imo the Greens should have held off in Ohariu…and maybe put their candidate in Palmerston North …or somewhere where they didnt field a Green candidate….it is NOT too much to ask to win an Election! …a little bit of cooperation

          ( and I worked for the Greens and donated to the Greens…so i am not happy with them at the moment…particularly with Norman’s blaming the Int/Mana party and Dotcom for their loss…when Green voters went out the door because of Norman’s perceived flirting with the Nacts at the last moment)

          • Matthew Whitehead 5.1.1.1.1

            Well, if Labour had responded to that pre-election coalition offer, I think it’s pretty reasonable for the Labour at that stage to request the Greens run a Green Party vote/Labour Electorate vote campaign in key electorates that could effect the composition of Parliament, and withdraw their electorate candidates from those particular races as part of the deal.

            However, Labour (unwisely in my view) ruled out co-operating in the campaign, so the Greens focused on their own party vote, and held their ground pretty well. The Labour party needs to concede that it simply will not be able to govern in the foreseeable future without the Greens, and that more active co-operation will be good for their base, and cover their left flank better.

            • greywarbler 5.1.1.1.1.1

              @ Matthew Whitehead
              That sounds eminently sensible. I wonder if anybody out there is listening who is in a position to make changes so that the m.o. could be e.s. in future. But possibly its all foaming glasses at present.

          • Tracey 5.1.1.1.2

            if labour had withdrawn a candidate from ohariu and say, all their voters went green… and dunne was defeated by a green candidate, based on ten percent of the party vote how many seats would greens have?

            labour dont want to compromise chooky, they want everyone else to accomodate them. they cant even get their own candidates to campaign for party vote… let alone expect greens to… cunliffe was clear he and labour preferred winston to the greens.

            too many blaming greens for not doing what was best for labour…

          • marty mars 5.1.1.1.3

            “so i am not happy with them at the moment…particularly with Norman’s blaming the Int/Mana party and Dotcom for their loss…when Green voters went out the door because of Norman’s perceived flirting with the Nacts at the last moment)”

            I agree with this Chooky – I think there has been a failure of The Greens that no-one I notice is fronting up to. In today’s world for the Greens to have at best maintained is pretty poor and Norman has to wear that one – he goes off at IMP calling them something like kooky when just a few weeks ago that was the right-wing meme for the Greens.

            • weka 5.1.1.1.3.1

              I felt pretty angry with Norman for using the term and concept of ‘crazies’, particularly because of the GP history of being marginalised.

              However when I listened to the whole Waatea news piece, and looked past his own anger and bitterness, his political analysis did make some sense. I don’t agree with all of it, but the GP have been at this a long time and I think it’s valid for Norman to feel his political prediction proved right (he asked KDC not to set up a party that would undercut the GP vote), and his analysis that the IP in particular distracted the MSM and people from the GP message (I don’t think this is the only reason for the GP not increasing their vote, but I doubt the GP think that either).

              The IMP were a gamble, and they lost and we’re all paying for that. That Norman is naming that makes sense (would prefer he was more careful in his choice of language though), and his anger is completely understandable when you look at this from his point of view.

              The thing that stood out for me in the interview (apart from the crazies bit and being an arse towards his natural allies) was that Norman sounded almost blase or casual with the anger. He looks like someone who has had enough, angry and almost doesn’t gve a shit (as in, what’s the fucking point if this is what all this work leads to). I thought this about that TV interview before the election when he had to front up and explain the ‘highly unlikely’ stuff re National. There was something off about where he was coming from in himself.

              Sorry, can’t make better sense of that URL

              http://www.waateanews.com/waateanews/x_story_id/ODAwNg==/National/Greens?__utma=1.54410197.1412402512.1412402512.1412402512.1&__utmb=1.1.10.1412402512&__utmc=1&__utmx=-&__utmz=1.1412402512.1.1.utmcsr=waateanews.com|utmccn=%28referral%29|utmcmd=referral|utmcct=/&__utmv=-&__utmk=62183084

              • Chooky

                they all need a bloody good holiday!

                ….and despite my respect for Norman’s intellect and fronting up in opposition to Nactional….the last week before the Election put potential Green voters off ….because they thought the Greens were trying to do a deal with Nactional and John Key ….and they hated this…it caused great alarm and consternation!

                …i believe it was a set- up by the right wing spinners and journalists eg the likes of Hooton….but Norman and the Greens did not counter it well!…they lost an awful lot of votes from this I am sure!

              • “He looks like someone who has had enough, angry and almost doesn’t gve a shit (as in, what’s the fucking point if this is what all this work leads to).”

                I have empathy with that – so close and yet so far and all of the chances to show the truth about the gnats, from many directions and angles and still the left ends up barely able to keep the old head above water. Personally I felt worse for the Greens than Mana – I really expected some big gains to be made by them. I’d be a bit bitter too if I was Norman but I wonder if he accepts any blame personally for the poor, imo, result.

            • Richard 5.1.1.1.3.2

              I think Norman bit the media apple that DC was snubbing them and wanted to win alone without them. Childish payback, Rush of green blood to his Vulcan head. IDNK

              As the only info I got was from the Herald and TV1 and 3 it certainly was portrayed that way, pre voting day.

    • alwyn 5.2

      Please look up what a “rotten borough” was. It was one where the number of electors was vastly less than a normal electorate. Epsom and Ohariu are not in that category. The nearest thing to an example would be the Maori seats.

      • Lanthanide 5.2.1

        The usage in this context is that the party gets into parliament, despite having vastly fewer votes than anyone else that got into Parliament.

        In UF’s case, the borough is so rotten that he caused an overhang. I hope he gets to sit in the naughty seat at the back.

      • Barfly 5.2.2

        perhaps I should use the term “corrupt” though it seems analogous

      • Andrea 5.2.3

        Would ‘pocket borough’ please you more?

    • tc 5.3

      National would be gone if the opposition parties worked towards that goal as the top priority.

      Joyce would be thankful for the ineptitude whilst others are rightfully very very fucked off with it…..again.

      • Aaron 5.3.1

        If the Greens hadn’t stood in Ohariu and the Green’s and Labour hadn’t stood in Epsom National would have been negotiating desperately with the Maori party right now.

        I can’t do the maths but if Kelvin Davis wasn’t such an idiot Internet Mana would be in parliament with 2 MPs and (depending on the maths) that might have given NZ First the balance of power. Any of these outcomes would have been better for the country which tends to make me assume the parties on the left are more focused on fighting each other than on doing what’s best for the country.

        Am I right?

        • Chooky 5.3.1.1

          @ Aaron…”National would have been negotiating desperately with the Maori party right now..”.

          …and if Labour had not rejected the Maori Party as a potential coalition partner BEFORE the Election…National wouldnt even have that option!

        • Shrubbery 5.3.1.2

          If the left had done any negotiating in Ohariu, John Key would just have had a cuppa with Peter Dunne to make things a bit clearer for right-aligned voters. The electorate is pretty solidly right-leaning – National has a majority in the party vote, for instance.

  6. Colonial Viper 7

    So what basis is Robertson using now, to move Cunliffe on?

    • fisiani 7.1

      Robertson as Labour leader is obviously going to poll better than Cunliffe in 2017. The election was closer than the media have been saying and Robertson believes he can unify the caucus after he forces Cunliffe to leave.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 7.1.1

        John Howard was PM in Australia for 12 years after losing an election to Hawke and losing the leadership of Liberals.
        Comebacks do happen.

        Helen lost 2 elections in a row

      • lprent 7.1.2

        Might be able to do something in caucus. So far he looks like a damp squib in the party.

        What is a political party if it just consists of a caucus plus sychophants?

        united future…

        • karol 7.1.2.1

          And Andrew Little?

          • Kiwiri 7.1.2.1.1

            Andrew Little should think things through. He has just got in narrowly on the list, he doesn’t currently have an electorate nor has he had an electorate in the past to launch a leadership bid from an electorate base. Although he has the experience on the party side as ex-President, he ought to bide his time. He makes a good parliamentary representative and many people would hate to see his talents prematurely wasted because of entering in a bit early for a leadership contest.

            • karol 7.1.2.1.1.1

              OK. I have seen him do some excellent speeches – other times meh. Can be a bit ponderous. Don’t know how he’d be as a caucus manager. Not sure he would get widespread public support.

              He may be a bit centrist/neolib for me.

            • Hamish 7.1.2.1.1.2

              I’d like to see Andrew Little as leader, he’s well respected and doesn’t faff about.

        • greywarbler 7.1.2.2

          A caucus plus sycophants. Sounds like a Russian folk orchestra with ancient horn instruments.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 7.1.3

        Thats what they said about Bill English back in 2002. There was a lot spite thrown around, Williamson being the loudest.

        Now of course they ‘ are champion rowers’

    • cricklewood 7.2

      At a guess, that given the Nats were looking for a third term, were mired in scandal & had to sack a minister. He managed to lead a labour party that secured less of the vote than last election. At least partly because he couldn’t unify his mp’s behind him…
      The unity thing is now insurmountable.

      • Kiwiri 7.2.1

        Nah, not just unity given the belligerent ones staying around.
        Also need renewal of caucus.
        Plus scheduled retirement of those who have been there for a long time (esp those who will have access to the old superwonderful superannuation) as well as the ones who cannot work for the benefit of the overall party like Cosgrove and Mallard. Parker should go back to legal practice or an Akl-based career.

    • Chooky 7.3

      he is giving a Robertson reason

  7. karol 8

    The turnout as percentage of enrolled voters went up by about 3%. ButI think the percentage of people enrolled compared with those illegible, went down.

    And the Greens party vote increased by nearly 10,000 votes.

  8. One Anonymous Bloke 9

    A little woodlouse tells me it’s time for a smear campaign against the Electoral Commission. What’s so “special” about these votes: clearly they’re reserved for Lefties. How does that work?

    These so-called pro-democracy types just hate winners, don’t they?

    A sewer too far even for the National Party?

  9. Lanthanide 10

    So here’s a calculation showing Maori Party + NZFirst would be the king-makers if:
    1. Labour had won Ohariu
    2. National had won Epsom
    3. Mana had won TTT

    59 seats G + L + NZF + IMP vs 59 National

    Lets say Mana had won Wairiki as well:
    Bizarrely this puts National on 61 vs 59 for the rest

    So if the left had learned how to MMP, we could now have a very strange parliament with 1 party on 59 seats and all of the other parties forming a coalition against them. Or, it could be 1 party with 61 seats and all of the other parties against them.

    • greywarbler 10.1

      @ Lanthanide
      I thought that might be the case but didn’t care, or dare to work it out. Damned if we did and damned ….

  10. left for dead 11

    @MS..good to see,you don’t have to eat your hat.shame on the left supporters in Epsom an the Hairs electorate.Hmm.We need to do much better .!

  11. Utu 12

    All opposition parties need to fire all their guns at Mr Seymour from now. As Karol said he is a weak link and the public needs to be reminded of the rort that is ACT.

    • Richard 12.1

      Perhaps I can bribe the local Black power to deposit some Air NZ tickets in his car and a pound of dope. /humour

      • greywarbler 12.1.1

        @ Richard
        Very wise to give us that humour/sarc tag.. No knocks on the door then, I hope.

      • KJT 12.1.2

        On the past record of ACT MP’s, we probably will not have long to wait before he has a criminal prosecution.

        • Kiwiri 12.1.2.1

          And on the past record of Nat MPs’ new rookie intakes that should reveal themselves to be Aaron Gilmorean or Claudette Hauitian, we will not have long to wait for scandals and resignations. This is a government made up of the mentally and morally/ethically unstable.

        • ghostwhowalksnz 12.1.2.2

          A quick visit to Ontario may be in order !

    • One Anonymous Bloke 12.2

      That’s why he’s been turned into PUS: no OIA, no Parliamentary questions.

      Mr. Dunne has the most to gain from Mr. Seymour’s demise.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 12.3

      Prebble was the campaign mastermind- and he failed 150%.

      For these minor parties, some sort of telegenic avuncular silver haired statesman type is all you need to get around 6%.

      But of course ACT is full of swivel eyed loons, so Seymour is the best they can do

      • Rodel 12.3.1

        ghostie-
        O yeah. Of course! In the midst of all the nonsense, the gloating, the despair and the glorious news that National don’t have an absolute majority ( and so can’t gloat), I forgot that Richard Prebble (turncoat man) was a huge loser. Yay!

        The news today that Nats didn’t have their vainglorious victory is cause for a wee dram. Cheers!

        • Richard 12.3.1.1

          I worked near Firth, which is near Inverness carting grain for the distilleries.

          A wee dram you say. What of? and when I was there, it was big drams with sips of beer as chasers!!!!

          And those that shall not be named not getting their majority is damn well a good day for a celebratory dram or three of the good stuff. Bottoms up! laddie.

      • felix 12.3.2

        “Prebble was the campaign mastermind- and he failed 150%”

        True, but a failure that nets you a fully funded high office, invented just for you for the specific purpose of infecting public policy with your extremely unpopular elitist and unelectable claptrap with no accountability or oversight?

        Well let’s just say that’s not too heavy a failure to bear.

  12. Barfly 13

    In terms of playing the MMP “game” the left parties must be more aware that a large percentage of National voters are perfectly happy to knowingly and deliberately corrupt the electoral systems integrity by voting for “sock-puppet / stooge” candidates in Epsom and Ohariu. A common strategy agreed upon by left parties to counter this may be helpful……

    • ghostwhowalksnz 13.1

      This is a contradiction, you cant accuse one side of playing the game, when you think the answer is to play another game on the voters.

      • Barfly 13.1.1

        It may end up being hypocritical depending upon whatever strategy (if any) is used but not contradictory.

        I believe that the right is “gaming the play ” rather than “playing the game”

        To not counter it is ummm…….. shall we say “needlessly disadvantageous”

      • greywarbler 13.1.2

        @ ghostwalker
        Are you for the right Right or for the left, left again? If a hole exists some mouse will get through it. Either put down a trap or take advantage if it isn’t swingeingly dishonest.

  13. Andrew Welsh 14

    If, maybe, miracle, rhetoric from the left is always so positive.

  14. Realblue 15

    Just heard Dunedin South and Dunedin North party vote now both to National with specials, interesting result again. Dunedin would be better served without Curran.

      • Colonial Viper 15.1.1

        Your flawed comment added nothing to the analysis for Dunedin South. It is a formerly deep red electorate turning more and more blue under the watch of an MP who is now in her third term. So name recognition should not be a problem right? But the electorate is turning more blue in terms of loss of electorate majority, AND in terms of loss of party vote.

  15. Blue 16

    The raw numbers between 2011 and 2014 are interesting.

    Number of votes cast
    2011 – 2,257,336
    2014 – 2,416,481
    Change: +159,145

    Number voting National
    2011 – 1,058,636
    2014 – 1,131,501
    Change: +72,865

    Number voting Labour
    2011 – 614,937
    2014 – 604,534
    Change: -10,403

    Number voting Green
    2011 – 247,372
    2014 – 257,356
    Change: +9,984

    Number voting NZ First
    2011 – 147,544
    2014 – 208,300
    Change: +60,756

    Number voting Maori Party
    2011 – 31,982
    2014 – 31,850
    Change: -132

    Number voting Act
    2011 – 23,889
    2014 – 16,689
    Change: -7,200

    Number voting Mana
    2011 – 24,168
    2014 – 34,095
    Change: +9,927

    Number voting Conservative
    2011 – 59,237
    2014 – 95,598
    Change: +36,361

    Number voting United Future
    2011 – 13,443
    2014 – 5,286
    Change: -8,157

    Number voting Other
    2011 – 16,256
    2014 – 20,411
    Change: +4,155

    Now for the blocks:

    Total ‘Government’ block: (National, Act, United Future, Conservatives, Maori Party)
    2011 – 1,187,187
    2014 – 1,280,924
    Change: +93,737

    Total ‘Opposition’ block: (Labour, Green, Mana, NZ First)
    2011 – 1,034,021
    2014 – 1,104,285
    Change: +70,264

    Total ‘Right’ block: (National, Act, UF, Conservatives)
    2011 – 1,155,205
    2014 – 1,249,274
    Change: +94,069

    Total ‘Right minus Conservatives’ block: (National, Act, UF)
    2011 – 1,095,968
    2014 – 1,153,476
    Change: +57,508

    Total ‘Left’ block: (Labour, Green, Mana)
    2011 – 886,477
    2014 – 895,985
    Change: +9,508

    Points:

    The number of people voting increased by around 160,000. Only around 67,000 of these ‘new’ votes seem to have gone to the established Right or Left blocks (roughly 57,000 to National and 10,000 to the Greens). Most seem to have gone to NZ First (roughly 60,000) and the Conservatives (roughly 36,000).

    National would have sucked up about 15,000 votes from the collapse of Act (-7,000) and United Future (-8,000). Therefore the real increase in their vote was around 57,000.

    The Left block increased their votes by 9,500. Labour lost approximately 10,000 votes. The Greens and Mana each gained slightly less than 10,000 votes each. The problem is that the increase from Mana is cancelled out by the fact that they did not make it into Parliament and the rise in the Greens is cancelled out by Labour’s loss. This leaves the Left block largely treading water and going backwards due to not keeping up with inflation.

    The parties that ‘won’ out of this election are National, NZ First and the Conservatives. National added nearly 60,000 votes, NZ First put on a cool 60,000 and the Conservatives added 36,000 and might make it into Parliament next time. The question is why so many votes went to these three parties, and who these voters might otherwise have voted for (or perhaps not voted at all).

    The losers are Act and United Future, who are bleeding votes to National, Mana, who sucked up a lot of left vote before they tanked, and Labour, who lost 10,000 votes from last time and failed to increase to keep up with inflation.

    • boldsirbrian 16.1

      .
      @ Blue (16)

      and the Conservatives added 36,000 and might make it into Parliament next time

      I am being optimistic. Craig had a half hearted campaign last time. This time he put everything into the campaign, oodles of money, and the best (cough) candidates he could find (chuckle McVicar) (snigger Rankin). And he had an increase, but still didn’t crack 4%

      Next time, voters will be concerned about wasting their vote and be far more wary. In some ways it will be worse for the left, because most will go to DirtyJohn. And I’ll be honest and say that I’d rather have a couple of DirtyJohn’s finest than anything resembling a Craig/McVicar/Rankin clone.

      DirtyJohn will not want to deal with them, simply because their policies are so far out on a limb that even he would have difficulty swallowing the relationship.

      My conclusion (Ok it includes no pessimism, and a bucket of hope) is that the Conservatives have been dealt a three strike, and are sentenced to indefinite detention. The confident smirk on McVicar is gone forever, and even Radio NZ will not invite Rankin back. ??

      Mr. Botany (B.)

    • MrSmith 16.2

      Someone here should post this or maybe you should send it in Blue.

  16. blue leopard 17

    Congratulations to the right wing of New Zealand for understanding the value of cooperation.

    This is very ironic, because the right tends to stand for individualism and ‘it’s a dog eat dog world’, yet they cooperate and the left don’t unite, rather preferring to compete with one another and pull one another down. How excellent.

    Really hope the NZ left learn to cooperate and be more strategic.
    The poor results from lacking these abilities have been going on for far too long.

    • Colonial Viper 17.1

      The elite right does not stand for “individualism”. That’s just PR for the masses. As you have already identified, they work very closely in co-ordination for maximum results.

      • blue leopard 17.1.1

        That doesn’t explain why those on the left who supposedly stand for community spirit and valuing collectivism can’t cooperate.

        • Colonial Viper 17.1.1.1

          There are many well understood reasons for why that is now particulary the case; but in truth the Left has always been an unruly bunch of splitters even in the formative days of the NZ Labour Party.

          • blue leopard 17.1.1.1.1

            lolz 🙂

            I think it is a good thing to be able to observe and admit our weaknesses because that allows us to improve.

            If only we could learn to be a bit more cooperative, I really hope we can develop that somehow because then it would turn the diversity we have on the left into a strength, as it should be, At present we are making it into our weakness, due to our inability to cooperate.

  17. blue leopard 18

    Congratulations to the right wing of New Zealand for understanding the value of cooperation.

    This is very ironic, because the right tends to stand for individualism and ‘it’s a dog eat dog world’, yet they cooperate and the left don’t unite, rather preferring to compete with one another and pull one another down. How excellent.

    Really hope the NZ left learn to cooperate and be more strategic.
    The poor results from lacking these abilities have been going on for far too long.

    [Having problems getting this comment to post – might cause a double-up]

  18. Chooky 19

    +100 thanks …very interesting…NZF 60,000 vote increase was the “pissed off” vote with Nactional asset sales, housing sales to foreigners, GCSB surveillance etc…which was potentially Labour’s imo

    • Huginn 19.1

      Chooky,

      Yes, very likely. Possibly also reflects anxiety about CGT which lots of people recognise as being good in the long term, but which would also possibly have reduced the value of many people’s houses.

      It’s a huge structural shift and more thought should have been put to explanations of how it would be implemented.

      • Richard 19.1.1

        You hit a nail on the head there. the one policy of labours I was worried about was CGT, however as my home has lost value from 125k to 87k for me not such a biggie. Like it’s only about 40k….

        Labour then wanted a CGT all those rentals here (Tokoroa)would have come on the Market as landlords off loaded, I thought, and my house price would have crashed into negative equity, the ANZ may have required a sell off. IDNK how banks feel about negative equity when It happens.

        Now if you take my worries and compound them by a nation and different area’s and what they would have been worried about then yes I can see how that cost a boat load of votes. Maybe that’s why labour did not get the party vote. Sounds logical.

        I suppose, someone that owns a half million dollar home in Auckland did not want a few thousand homes flooding the market if they were tight on equity. As most people a few years back could borrow with only a 10% deposit their equity and potential to sell on at a big profit is just to much greed to ignore.

        IMHO.

        • karol 19.1.1.1

          You reckon landlords would all have offloaded at the same time?

          • Richard 19.1.1.1.1

            Well as it was not explained properly who knows? thanks to the media we didn’t get any depth into policies just focus on Dirt.

            I suppose if they sold them they would have to pay the tax on them. God knows what will have happened, the point I failed to make was it’s the worry of what would happen! the Uncertainty? the unknown, I suppose. When we talk about voting for a party with an uncertain policy with no definition of the expected outcomes of implementing it.

            For me wondering if there would have suddenly appered thousands of homes in real estate agents plummeting house prices was a REAL big concern. However I saw past that and maintained my nerve and voted two ticks labour anyways.

            I just cannot speak for others just what was going through my head at the time.

            Here prices are dropping I owe 71k on a 87k house that was worth 125 after I did it up. yet I’m still paying 125k rates prices. it’s all FUBAR.

        • Chooky 19.1.1.2

          yeah…maybe we need a Capital Loss Tax Refund

  19. fisiani 20

    Grant Robertson massively improved his majority in Wellington Central. Surely that proves he is popular with voters.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 20.1

      Its the party vote that wins elections

      John Keys majority decreased from 2011. Does this prove hes a ‘loser’
      ( was 21000 now 18000+)

      hello boundary change, I knew you were hiding somewhere

    • anker 20.2

      Do you want him to lead Labour Fis? If so that’s enough to make me think twice and twice again about giving him my vote.

      It makes me deeply suspicious that the right are so against Cunliffe.

    • Shrubbery 20.3

      Apparently ‘massively improved’ is now equal to ‘gets 1000 more votes’

  20. blue leopard 21

    How come my comments aren’t going through? (just testing this browser)

  21. felix 22

    Well at least National and their media sycophants can shut the fuck up about that now.

  22. Richard 23

    Lots of developing news today,

    Firstly this one, well done Greens, well done. More people should look to the positives not the negatives, the greens have proven last election results were not a one off or fad.

    They have slightly increased their vote count have they not. Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey. Good on the Green team even if I don’t vote for them.

    Little entered the labour leader election according to TV3 news which adds depth to the selection I will face.

    I would not choose Robertson, but Little, I will seriously consider. Once I read up on where he wants to take labour, if I can find some deep insight into him somewhere, shouting out for help on that. He seems pretty good from what I have seen of him in the past.

    National losing there majority will only stop the RMA but I suspect their little (not the Labour guy) puppy Rimmer or Chris Barrie look alike, whatever his name is(so memorable I’ve already forgotten it for the moment) will vote for them, just greatful for the half a million he gathered in for Act. He’d pass granny bashing I suspect now.

    He actually bowed to Key when they met to sign the supply agreement did anyone see that!

    So a wise man would dig deep on the Act guy, time to dig dirt or watch him like a Hawk. If he can be dismissed, preferably out for a duck, that will stop their most harmful policies from happening. Sorry Act guy but their is a price for coat tailing and the target is firmly painted on your forehead.

  23. Anne 24

    I couldn’t agree more with Andrew Little. On the TV news this evening, he blamed the raising of the super age as the primary reason for Labour’s historic loss. He said it was mentioned with him time and time again. I give him full credit for having the guts to come out and say it.

    But no, no no… the caucus ‘powers that be’ did not listen to us philistine members. How many times did Colonial Viper, myself and plenty of others plead with them to reconsider that policy – here and elsewhere? Over and over again. But our little friends did not listen because THEY KNEW BEST.

    Lets put the blame where it lies. David Parker. And I have no doubt a small coterie of our neo-liberal mates in the Caucus gave him the nod to go ahead with it. And who have they lumbered with the blame for that loss? David Cunliffe.

    I want to know the truth about what happened. Was David C cowered into acceptance of this politically crazy policy? Or did he just acquiesce too easily?

    Someone please tell me the truth.

    • Richard 24.1

      Anne , now I only heard this after Cunliffe supposed Gaff, but did they not say it was DC’s policy? he wrote it? I like DC, but it was a good policy, badly timed, and badly explained. Not something I would go to the polls with. Just saying. Not if I wanted to win against the JK fan club.

      The big question left unanswered was what would happen to all our house prices if masses of homes entered the market, especially to people with low equity.

      Remember the banks were chucking home loans at people who could not afford it, a few years back. They have no room for price drops.

      • karol 24.1.1

        CGT only kicks in when people sell their homes – and it wasn’t going to be on the family home.

        My understanding is that lots of people don’t suddenly start paying CGT immediately – it’s something that only has an impact gradually over time.

        • ghostwhowalksnz 24.1.1.1

          Not quite. It would kick in when ever a house is sold ( excluding family home) after indroduction.

          But of course any gains before tax was introduced would be untouched. And then its only at 15% of the gain. You get to keep 85%. House prices in Auckland have doubled roughly every 8-10 years.

        • Richard 24.1.1.2

          Hi Karol, yeah I understood that, but half of Tokoroa seems to be rentals. If landlords panicked they may have tried to offload the instant labour were elected to beat the CGT before it was passed into law? To reap a non taxed profit.

          So many worries so little by the way of reassurance from labour. Yet how could they the media gave them NO coverage.

          That’s also part of the issue it’s just to easy for other parties to scaremonger if you are not distributing information on your policies.

          The only party pamphlet I received was 2 days before election from the Greens. Not even national sent me one. The greens had nothing on policy apart from naming them, absolutely no information on them.

          • Karen 24.1.1.2.1

            Richard it sounds as if there was some scaremongering going on re the effect on the CGT. Long term it is designed to reduce the tax free attraction of property speculation compared to investment in production industries.

            There is no advantage for lots of landlords in Tokoroa to all ditch their rentals just to avoid a CGT. For one thing the drop in value if a lot did this at once would mean there would be no capital gain anyway. Secondly, if Labour had got in then the increase in value that is taxed would be the difference between the value at the time the tax came in and the value when sold. I suspect in Tokoroa there is no rampant property price boom currently, so landlords are better off getting the rent.

            If Labour had got in and implemented their forestry policies there could be more work in towns like Tokoroa.

            • Richard 24.1.1.2.1.1

              Thanks you Karen for that info. As usual a mind with no answers to it’s questions is a very worrying mind.

              Pity you were not around pre election to answer peoples questions like the one I had…unless you were 🙂

              I hadn’t thought of that RE landlords not selling better off with the rental incomes as house prices had lowered a very good point I had missed completely. Which you have now told me.

              What I just said and got answered is a lot of the concerns of average folk.

              Not all of us come up with the right anwer to our issues.

              Like also the raising of the retirement age, it does not effect you if your 48 or older it ramps up in years lower than that age. Roughly. That’s one thing that was not said enough to keep the middle aged and elders from jumping to Winnie as people have said.

              I think key learned to hide worrying policy after the asset sales hoo ha. Probably promised himself not to tell the sheep to much they only get angst and give him grief. perhaps we should stick to user friendly policy and make the hard sells an after election implementation if that is possible.

          • Murray Olsen 24.1.1.2.2

            Richard, I don’t think people buy houses in Tokoroa seeking a capital gain. They do that in an area where house prices are going up, like Auckland. I don’t think the tax would make much difference to landlords down there.

            • Richard 24.1.1.2.2.1

              House prices have only been going down since national got in. Not that they had anything to do with that I suppose, or maybe..

              But Anne helped me on that, as it certainly was a worry for me, and as I had thought if I had concerns there must be 100’s of others with similar concerns if not hundreds of thousands.

              The fact I thought they might dump before the legislation was passed to reap a tax free profit, we all know the greed even for that 15%, if labour or the left won. Real concerns real worries.

              For me to still have thoughts like that after the election is a failure of that policy to be explained adequately in the run up. IMHO

              To much focus on other things like large Germans and Dirty Politics.

      • Anne 24.1.2

        … but did they not say it was DC’s policy? he wrote it?

        I don’t think so Richard. Parker has claimed ownership of that policy from the start. He first started to talk publicly about it well before Cunliffe became leader.

        • Richard 24.1.2.1

          Ahh cheers Anne. I am adamant that some media stated Cunliffe should have known the answer to Keys debate question as he wrote it(The CGT).

          Do you remember that?

          it will come to me later..

          • Anne 24.1.2.1.1

            I think we’re at cross purposes Richard. My original comment is about the raising of the super age. That was definitely Parker’s idea although it was obviously accepted by his senior colleagues. I agree the CGT was also complicit in Labour’s loss but, in my view, the super age policy was the primary cause. I think you will find the middle aged former Labour voters and soon to be pensioners… crossed over to NZ First in droves!

            • Richard 24.1.2.1.1.1

              Hi again Anne yes your right my bad. I watched little and must have mistakingly thought he said lots of people asked him about CGT not retirement age.

              Cheers for clearing that up.

              Yeah I see it I missed my second post and read on from talking about CGT with Karol, definitely my bad. Sorry mate.

      • Jenny Kirk 24.1.3

        The financial policies were David Parker’s, Richard. CGT and raising super age, etc.

        And when policies are agreed – via Party or caucus – then the Leader is obliged to go with them and support/explain them, as are all MPs. These are a part of the rules governing Labour MPs.

        They’re also all meant to get behind the Leader and support him/’her – but as you’ve seen from the raggle-taggle bunch of more senior MPs in the Labour caucus, they’re not following that particular rule.

      • mac1 24.1.4

        I attended the Grey Power AGM held earlier this year at which Cunliffe spoke and took some time to explain the Superannuation policy. First, I have to say that I did not hear any mutterings from delegates, but I did hear the Minister Jo Goodhew tell us earlier that Super would stay at 65 years at 66%.

        This is what Cunliffe told us but which never made it out into the media. As Richard says above, it was badly explained in that the conditions which made it a palatable policy were not explained. Like the Capital Gains Tax and like having a leader for a decent interval, these policies if allowed enough to be fully explained and known about will cease to be bogies- even accepted.

        If we keep changing policy like we seem to want to keep changing leaders, we in Labour will be seen to be flaky, insincere, vote-buying, vacillating.

        This is what Cunliffe told Grey Power in a passionate and well delivered speech.
        He was impressive. I took copious notes as I edit a Grey power newsletter.

        Check what you know about Labour’s Superannuation policy against this list. If you know less than what I know, why is that? Therein is part of the problem for parties of the Left.

        Cunliffe suggested 65-67 as the increase in age of Superannuation for 2020 till 2032. It would advance at two months for every year. Those aged over 59 would not be affected. This 2020 start gives people lead time to adjust.

        And now, what made it an acceptable policy in my view. For those who were unable to work or who were disadvantaged in equity- e.g. women with children who can’t work to earn- and for people who had difficulty keeping work there would be a special benefit paid at 65 at the same rate as the Super.

        Now, why did that policy never get out there in its entirety?

        Too complicated, too difficult to administer, too difficult to explain easily, or was it ignored by the media, under-reported, under exposed to the public for easy assimilation or undersold by its proponents?

        • Anne 24.1.4.1

          I think it was a bit of all of those things mac1. The media were definitely not helping. As a pack, they had decided to give Key another term at leading the government. Their reasoning had little to do with policy and a lot to do with self interest.

          Having said that, I don’t think Labour sold the policy at all well. In the last few months I noticed they stopped talking about the the Super policy altogether. I suspect their internal polling was telling them it was a big loser, so they hoped by keeping their mouths shut it might go away. It didn’t of course and that is something they should have recognised would happen from the start. Plenty of other people did.

          There are ways and means of introducing unpopular policy planks without scaring the horses. It could be termed ‘policy implementation by stealth’ but provided it is done carefully and fairly across the board, then the horses will eventually come back to the water to drink.

    • anker 24.2

      I can’t tell you for sure Anne, but I do remember seeing DC on the Nation earlier this year, and he seemed not entirely committed to raising the retirement age.

  24. Richard 25

    Hmm housing it’s a minefield, your damned if you meddle with it, your damned if you don’t. I defer to experienced professionals on this, I’m an out of depth home owner who’s just plain worried.

  25. logie97 26

    If you get a chance, listen to a Week In Politics on RNZ.
    Brent Edwards recorded it before the today’s final results
    It really is amusing to hear Jokey Hen’s statements and the laughable Dunne.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/focusonpolitics

  26. slipery 27

    Don’t the Nat$i party supporters wish fisi !, why are they so afraid of DC?(why are you going so RED prime mincer?)

    [lprent: sigh, still auto-spamming. I will be back later so will look then if I am sober enough.. ]

  27. Binders full of women 28

    mmm hope that means Little puts his hat into the ring. I know so little about him though… the Vic-Labour crew did a lovely little hagiography on Grant so I am now reminded that he filibustered for like forever on that really important for jobs (ie labour) that was his obsession with VSM (really gonna woo the smoko rooms and car dwellers with that one..NOT)… and DC… well the unions and flaxroots may love him but the electorate….. they’ve given their verdict.
    Members- DC
    Unions- AL
    Caucus- GR
    might come down to 2nd preferences??

  28. Ovaries Muddy 29

    Me thinks this is all a bit of a setup…..

    Jamie Whyte resigns, and people think Mr Seymour is inexperienced.

    Note one of the Foundations he worked at is backed by Koch (big Oil). Seymour also just seems to be the groomed child of Mr Roger NZ Douglas. Douglas still lives……………………It Lives, It lives…….

    Check out the Manning Foundation (trains people in right wing ideology) and Frontier Foundations…… Perfect match with JK and co…. save the Libertarian bullshit for someone else. They are cool hard monetarism monkeys.

    We are fxxxkd…

    One of their Key Mineral reports (I forget which one of the foundations released it) basically said the NZ RMA was too harsh and needed reforming to make it easy to do business.

    So I see Mr Seymour has worked at the Frontier Centre for Public Policy (circa 4 years?)

    Oh look, Roger Douglas was an advisory board member

    “you will see that one of those members is Roger Douglas, the man who turned New Zealand inside out with his horrendous slash and burn polices”

    and

    “Douglas was also the driving force behind Ralph Klein, Mike Harris, Stephen Harper and Preston Manning, and it would appear that he is still helping to shape neoconservative policy.”

    The Winnipeg Labour Defense League, protested at the Frontier Centre during 10th Anniversary, because of FPP’s promotion of damaging policies, including:

    privatized child-care;
    a frozen minimum wage;
    privatized utilities for Hydro and Water;
    a “flat tax” where those with lower incomes pay the most;
    even more tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations;
    no pay equity for women or other discriminated groups;
    no marketing boards such as the Wheat Board to protect farmers and consumers from the big Agri-monopolies.

    http://harpercrusade.blogspot.com/2010/03/roger-douglas-and-frontier-centre-for.html

    I see young Seymore has worked for Manning Foundation to.

    Oh, one last thing when considering charter schools.

    http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1228988-charter-school-push-aims-to-undercut-public-sector

    When considering all the information and mixed results achieved by charter schools, one wonders what can possibly be gained by allowing them to open here in Nova Scotia, and why, exactly, AIMS seems so bent on them.

    The obvious reason, of course, is that charter schools are often staffed by non-unionized teachers who are paid less and have fewer benefits than their unionized counterparts. Having fewer taxpayer dollars going into workers’ pockets is probably deemed a rather attractive option, regardless of how students are served

    • Richard 29.1

      Jeez, thanks I did not know that. Wow, If only that could be leaked to a mainstream prepared to print it. Boy I think the public would be a little taken aback.

      Roger Douglas. What breed of ugly is this low life.

  29. AmaKiwi 30

    Labour’s policies are what lost it the election.

    We were the very smart doctor telling the public they MUST take our unpalatable advice.

    Politics does not work that way. You promise them what they want (NZ power, more teachers, etc.) and play doctor after you win. Many don’t want a capital gains tax, higher retirement age, etc. So STFU.

    The campaign was stupidly run. We (Labour) deserved to lose. Hopefully we will learn something.

    • Anne 30.1

      Politics does not work that way. You promise them what they want (NZ power, more teachers, etc.) and play doctor after you win. Many don’t want a capital gains tax, higher retirement age, etc. So STFU.

      Yep. Stupid is as stupid does.

      And they can’t say they weren’t told Amakiwi because plenty of us did try…

      • Jenny Kirk 30.1.1

        Yep – we did. And they wouldn’t listen ! (Well – Parker and his cohorts wouldn’t).
        I think Cunliffe would have been prepared to adjust those ideas if the other MPs would have let him ! But they all know best …… not us out here in the doon blocks. We’re just dumb voting fodder.

    • Colonial Viper 30.2

      Labour’s policies are what lost it the election.

      Yes. But Labour’s policies also cannot win it elections. For that, gutsy vision and gutsy leadership is required. Cunliffe and Labour’s front bench promised much but just didn’t deliver, in the 6 months before Sept 20.

    • ScottGN 30.3

      I couldn’t agree more AmaKiwi. CGT and raising the retirement age may well be policies with a lot of merit but they are contentious (and complex) and it was just plain dumb of Labour to try and win back government with them. It seems no one in Labour has had the brains to look at the way National cleverly decided to wait until their second term to go forward with a divisive policy like asset sales and how incumbency can give you the electoral muscle to pull it off.

  30. Observer (Tokoroa) 31

    To our once proud Labour Party

    It seems to me the Labour Party in this election, as in the last, wanted to get a name for reform and major change in New Zealand.

    Labour would be the heroes. They would shove a difficult to understand Capital Gains Tax on every asset sold – except the family home – and they would refuse to pay a Pension to people under the age of 67 years.

    The Pension delay was an effective loss of nearly $36,000 for every person. The Capital Gains Tax was very difficult to quantify, but costly nevertheless.

    John Key did not go near this kind of poison. So, Labour represented gain, and Labour represented pain.

    Which is to say, the Labour Caucus was insane to go out into a troubled financial world with plans to strip money off individuals.

    On top of that, they behaved in Caucus like catty children and prima donnas. They have not even yet begun to reform that stupid behaviour.

    David Cunliffe spoke at length about Housing, and that would have been a positive. But National also had a Housing platform. National had a wage increase policy too.

    The Green Party also approached the Electorate with reformist causes – mostly concerned with our vital environment. Possibly costly causes. It is a worthwhile platform, but again people steer away from embracing it because of its unknowns, especially in less prosperous times.

    New Zealand First, went into the election with easily understood concepts – such as not selling off New Zealand land to overseas buyers. Keeping State owned Assets for New Zealanders, thereby keeping costs down on essential services and keeping job opportunites open as a result.

    They also do not believe in Race based parties… because New Zealand has to govern for all – not for special interests. This is fundamental to Sovereignty and Democracy. They also value the ageing people of New Zealand. They also want Mr Key’s bloated GST Tax taken often food. Every bit of food that you buy gets clipped by Mr Key by a whopping 15%.

    New Zealand First received a big boost in its votes and rightly so.

    Labour going into an election “promising five new Taxes” was plain suicide. It was suicide in the previous election. It will be in the next election; and in the election after that …. ad infinitum.

    Taxing the very very wealthy or getting them to actually pay their taxes – is not suicide. John Key will have made them very rich anyway, by any means he can.

  31. Penny Bright 32

    What happens when Judith Collins is forced to resign as the MP for Papakura if one of the three inquiries finds against her?

    In my considered opinion, National cannot take Papakura for granted if / when there is a by-election.

    Penny Bright

    • boldsirbrian 32.1

      `
      @Penny Bright (31)

      Wonderful. Definitely looking on the ‘Bright’ side of things. And your thought is worth far more than a Penny. ~ smile~

      (Yeah I know, humour using a person’s name is a little weak. Hope you can forgive me 😉 )

      Mr. Botany (B.)

    • Richard 32.2

      Judith surely will go, Williamson is in the firing line too. Key himself has yet to clear the case against him on GCSB leaking OIA information by the Ombudswoman.

      If they think winning the election means they have a mandate to sweep it under the carpet well e know what ALL opposition parties should be focusing on right now, at every media outlet at every opportunity. Hold them to account MP’s, hold them responsible.

  32. slipery 33

    Lynn ,I know you got me under moderation still, that’s fine as you don’t have to accept this post because this one is not contributing to the conversation, unlike my others, if you want to allow it your wellcome to move this to open mike, anyway sadly the moderation means my post is printed often way after the particular subject is moved along, but I am dissapointed you accuse me of being an auto spammers, I see its plural so it may appear its not the first time I’ve had an issue with comments doubling up, I suspect its no doubt my fault as I’m on my stupid tablet cost my P.C crashed. I have been reading & visiting daily for months & I know your a fair moderator, you have to deal with trolls, Pete G’s & auto spammers so fair snuff you gotta be on guard,s great you say why you have an issue + often I agree. But I have only posted my 2’nd comment in 2-3 months & you call me an autospammer (again?). I am not telling you what to do I am apologising for a miss understanding involving comments that appeared doubled up which is user interface error not an issue with the website reply function. Please forgive my fo’ par 🙂 and enjoy your evening/morning.

  33. bearded git 34

    Little could stand in Papakura

    • alwyn 34.1

      If the circumstance ever arose that would guarantee that National would hold the seat. I think he may have his eye on New Lynn actually. If Little won the leadership would Cunliffe quit?

  34. felix 35

    Without discounting all of Labour’s various woes, it seems to me that the election was in large part won and lost in Te Tai Tokerau.

    I hope Mr Davis is reminded of this every time he opens his mouth to rail against National’s callous and inhumane indifference to the suffering in his electorate.

    • Richard 35.1

      I have very strange I suppose beliefs regards the left parties binding together. here is my thoughts on it.

      National Act and UF(Forget maori they jump waka willy nilly) mass together to get elected. they use two parties that are not even in popular voters minds. Act would be gone without national for all intents and purposes it’s a hatchet party to bring in more lists members than 1 single National MP would do under MMP.

      Labour, the Greens are two POPULAR parties with a main stream large following.

      Couple decades ago Labour were polling like National are these days, what is needed is labour to have rigged seats just like Act. Mana was one, but still Hone would be uncontrollable.

      What’s really needed are a couple of easy seats for a cuppa tea deal in a safe labour electorate for a couple of Act/national like labour clones. Just like hollow men we need a completely fluff party to install a labour guy in and support him /her in getting elected and bringing in more MP’s for the cause.

      Whatever National can do we can do better.

      Siding with the greens is just splitting votes. I like the Greens I like their environmental ideology however they are both harming each other. Both need to adopt better MMP strategy. The greens could do the same in a Green safe seat. thereby increasing the lefts MMP numbers even more.

      Voting numbers would need careful examination, parties formed but unless we try some avenue like this nationals supporters will continue to follow the mantra and elect these freaks. therefore electing national.

      • alwyn 35.1.1

        Labour had the Alliance of course, which became the Labour equivalent of ACT. Then old Jim simply couldn’t keep going any more.

      • Richard 35.1.2

        Even I see the problem with my idea, the ideology of the right allows their conscious to do such a thing as cheat on a voting paper by voting in a party with policies they wouldn’t ever vote for. But the lefts caring ideology would just make that unpalatable.

        Cheating Aussie underarm bowling party of wall street …sounds like bankers..

        I mean isn’t the crux of National saying

        Vote for this party, our loyal National voters ……so we can cheat the electoral system, democracy itself and what it’s based upon, and we will get more MP’s into parliament than normal.”

        kind of election cheating when you get down to the bare facts people?

        Edited.

        Oh and if their is a so called electoral commission or election monitoring body exactly what are they doing to uphold the principles of democracy? Fair elections.

  35. Pat O'Dea 36

    So what does all this mean in practical terms?

    The opposition will very likely get their chance to test this out in the very first days of the new parliamentary term.

    With a total of 59 seats, Labour the Greens, NZFirst and the Maori Party all (nominally) support the Feed The Kids bill. Compare this to National and ACT’s 61 seats. Counting Peter Dunne’s seat, but taking out one for the speaker gives the government a narrow two seat majority on the issue of the Feed The Kids Bill.

    Some fierce lobbying by the opposition MPs might be able to shift Peter Dunne to cut the government Majority to one. With further pressure the opposition parties should be aiming to at least get this Bill to the Select Committee hearing stage. This is where groups like Child Poverty Action and the Salvation army and other NGOs could then present their submissions with all their evidence for the need for this programme.

    John Key has made a big play about be willing to discuss measures to end childhood poverty.

    Let’s take his words at face value.

    John Key and National must be challenged by opposition MPs to allow the evidence in support of this suggested child poverty relief measure to be heard and debated in parliament.

    If John Key is not prepared to even let the evidence be heard, this exposes him as a liar and a hypocrite at least in regards to being concerned about the 100,000 kids in this country that go to school hungry every day.

    Post script:

    “The recognition I think we all have is that there are some extremely poor children who are missing out”
    John Key

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10535794/Child-poverty-on-Key-agenda

    “It is encouraging so early in the life of the new Government that the Prime Minister is signalling a need to address child poverty”
    Major Campbell Roberts of The Salvation Army Social Policy and Parliamentary Unit.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1409/S00507/sallies-pleased-at-fresh-ideas-to-tackle-child-poverty.htm

    Prime Minister John Key has asked his officials for fresh ideas on tackling child poverty.

    On his first day back at Parliament since being re-elected on Saturday, Key said he had ordered Treasury and Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet officials to start presenting new ideas.

    ‘‘The recognition I think we all have is that there are some extremely poor children who are missing out,’’ Key said yesterday.

    ‘‘And so then the question is how do you resolve those issues, it’s not straightforward but there will be more you can do.’’

    Key said it needed to be done without narrowing the gap between the incomes of those on benefits and those working, to ensure people were still encouraged into work.

    Breakfasts in schools, free doctors’ visits for young children and tax credits for low and middle income families were examples of policies that could be used to tackle the problem, as could programmes such as Whanau Ora.

    “Child poverty on Key agenda” Stuff.co.nz September 24, 2014

    • alwyn 36.1

      ” but taking out one for the speaker”
      When are people finally going to get it through their heads that The Speaker’s vote is counted and has been since MMP came in in 1986?

      • Richard 36.1.1

        +100

        Yes alwyn I was just going to say that too but you beat me too it. But just in case he’s not sure if your right or not i’ll repeat it too.

        Whatever party the speaker belongs to his vote is added to their voting tally.

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Saving lives
    The purpose of the lockdown is to save lives, by reducing the spread of covid-19. We won't know if its really working for another week, but given the devastation that will result if it doesn't - 14,000 dead is the optimistic scenario - its definitely worth trying. But pausing the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 hours ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 5
    . . March 30: Day five of living in lock-down… Woke up still in darkness. Alarm hadn’t gone off. Turn to radio clock; it’s a few minutes after 6am… I lie there in the dark, waiting to drift off to sleep… but it ain’t happening. Clock ticks over to 6.55 ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 hours ago
  • Speaker: Les Gray: the man who told the truth
    The story of Les Gray, the public sector psychologist who told the truth about his use of cannabis and set off a storm, has a special place in the lore of cannabis reform in New Zealand.When Paul Shannon interviewed Gray for the 'Dope and Hope' issue of Planet magazine in ...
    5 hours ago
  • Why now? Historical specificity and the perfect storm that has created trans identity politics
    by Phil Duncan For Marxists, a key concern about social trends is their context – not just their causes, but why they happen when they do.  Events and phenomena have causes, but they also are time or period-specific. While much of the left have capitulated recently to postmodernism, most notably ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    22 hours ago
  • Time for a living wage for supermarket workers
    Since the lockdown began, we've all suddenly been reminded who the actually essential workers in our society are: not the people at the top who pay themselves the big bucks and rort the perks, but the people at the bottom they screw over and squeeze: cleaners, warehouse staff, truck drivers ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    24 hours ago
  • Hard News: MUSIC: Lockdown Grooves
    Kia ora! As I've watched nearly all my remaining work vanish over the past couple of days, it has occured to me that one good way to keep me away from arguing with fools on Twitter all the time (in the knowledge that all we're really doing is processing our ...
    1 day ago
  • A place of greater safety?
    Aotearoa New Zealand has committed to trying to extirpate the virus that causes COVID-19 from its shores. To do that, as a society we’ve moved to “Level 4”. That means adapting to unprecedented restrictions on our personal freedoms, particularly to our rights to move freely and associate with friends and ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    1 day ago
  • The police and public trust
    When the Prime Minister declared a state of emergency last week, she handed the police powers to enforce it. And almost immediately, we started hearing about heavy-handed, arbitrary "enforcement" by police who (at best) cared more about order than law, or (more likely) had no idea what the rules were ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 4
    . . Lock Down: Day 4 – A photo essay with observations . March 29: Usual wake up routine as RNZ snaps on my radio-clock. Jim Mora’s voice slowly enters my conciousness; there’s talk of a second wave of covid19 taking hold in South Korea; the week in Parliament – ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 day ago
  • COVID-19 vs New Zealand
    Yesterday, New Zealand recorded its first Covid-19 related death on the West Coast. Unfortunately this is unlikely to be the only fatality, with the virus now being found in every region of the country.However despite the significant danger, people are still unfortunately breaching lockdown rules.There’s really only one main very ...
    1 day ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #13
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... ‘Misinformation kills’: The link between coronavirus conspiracies and climate denial   Grist / Rob Kim / Stringer / CSA Images  Scientific ...
    1 day ago
  • Rāhui day 4
    The kids did surprisingly well today – meltdown count was about 3, and mostly fairly short ones. (And a fourth while I was writing.) Game-wise I had a go at Fell Seal: Arbiter’s Mark. It’s a fairly standard RPG with turn-based combat and what they call a “mature storyline” (it ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    2 days ago
  • Letter to a friend
    by Don Franks Hi David, Nice hearing from you, I’m glad to hear you’re getting by okay in these grim times. You asked how’s it going for us back here in New Zealand. You would have heard that the whole country is locked down and with breaks for exercise and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 3
    . . Lock Down: Day 3 – A photo essay with observations . March 28: First day of the first weekend in Lock Down. It feels like it’s been weeks since only Level 3 was declared last Tuesday, only four days ago. Woke up this morning to RNZ; coffee; toast, ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    2 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #13
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week, i.e., Sun, Mar 22, 2020 through Sat, Mar 28, 2020 Articles Linked to on Facebook Sun, Mar 22, 2020 In Just 10 Years, Warming Has Increased the Odds of Disasters by Chelsea Harvey, ...
    2 days ago
  • Rāhui day 3
    I’m here in lockdown with my flatmate and her two girls (6 and 2) and it. is. a time. They’re usually really active so to start with the only boardgame in the house is the copy of Guess Who that the 6 year old got for her birthday. Flatmate commented ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    3 days ago
  • A test of civil society.
    The CV-19 (COVID) pandemic has seen the imposition of a government ordered national quarantine and the promulgation of a series of measures designed to spread the burden of pain and soften the economic blow on the most strategically important and most vulnerable sectors of society. The national narrative is framed ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    3 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 2
    . . Lock Down: Day 2 – A photo essay with observations . March 27 – Day 2 of our Strange New World. The Park and Ride near my suburb, usually filled with hundreds of vehicles, had just… four; . . Another drive into Wellington City on a highway nearly ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • How Do You Feel? What Do You Think?
    Fortune's Children: Under extraordinary pressure, the leader of the Government and the leader of the Opposition will each show us what they are made of. Have they been blessed with intelligence, grace, wit, poise, toughness, empathy and humour – and in what measure? More importantly, to what extent have they ...
    3 days ago
  • Landlords are NOT an essential service
    If you’ve ever had the misfortune of having to rent a property on the open market in New Zealand, which is one of the most expensive in the entire world, you’ll likely be keenly aware of just how arrogant and entitled landlords and their real estate agents can be.Unfortunately for ...
    3 days ago
  • A “new Society” post-COVID19 will definitely emerge. The question is: on what path?
    Society-wise, aside from the specific morbidity shall we say of the medically-oriented aspects of this COVID-19 crisis, what is unfolding before the world is in more than one way an instructive study of humanity and reactions to a high intensity, high stress environment in real time. Friends, we are at ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    4 days ago
  • Raise the Bar: Everything you need to know about the wage subsidy
    Right now low waged and insecure workers are feeling the economic brunt of the looming #Covid19 Recession. In response legal advocate Toby Cooper* and hospitality and worker’s rights advocate Chloe Ann-King, are putting together a series of legal blogs about your employment rights: In this legal blog we outline some ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    4 days ago
  • The massacre of prisoners in Modelo jail, Bogota, March 21
    by Equipo Jurídico Pueblos and Gearóid Ó Loingsigh (25/03/2020) An escape plan in question On the night of March 21st and the early morning of the 22nd, the forces of the Colombian state stormed into the Modelo prison in Bogotá, murdering 23 prisoners and injuring 83, in response to the ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • We are not America
    When the government banned semi-automatic weapons in response to a terrorist atrocity, gun-nuts were outraged. Mired in toxic American gun culture, they thought owning weapons whose sole purpose was killing people was some sort of "constitutional right", a necessity for "defending themselves" against the government. Now, the Court of Appeal ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • When will we know the lockdown is working?
    Just before midnight on Wednesday March 25, Aotearoa New Zealand entered a countrywide alert level four lockdown. For at least the next four weeks, everyone who isn’t an essential worker is confined to their bubble. We are doing this to stop the explosive growth in people contracting and dying from ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    4 days ago
  • Lock Down: Day 1
    . . Lock Down: Day 1 – A photo essay with observations . Day one of the Level 4 nationwide lock-down (or, DefCon 4 as I sometimes cheekily call it) started at 11.59PM on 25 March. For a moment, most of the nation held it’s collective breath. In that brief ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    4 days ago
  • A Compelling Recollection.
    Broad, Sunlit Uplands: How those words fired my young imagination! Or, perhaps, it is more accurate to say: how those words fused, in my young mind, with the image printed on every packet of Fielder’s Cornflour. Always fascinated by history, especially modern history, I cannot hear Churchill’s wonderfully evocative words, even ...
    4 days ago
  • The Warehouse – where everyone gets a virus
    . . 24 March 2020 9.46AM Number of covid19 cases in Aotearoa New Zealand: 102 . As of 11.59 on Thursday, most of New Zealand will go into “lock down”. People will be expected not to travel to work; not to socialise; and to stay home. I will not be ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    4 days ago
  • Aggressive action to address climate change could save the world $145 trillion
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections A respected research group, Project Drawdown, finds that deploying solutions consistent with meeting the Paris climate targets would cost tens of trillions of dollars globally. But crucially, those outlays would also yield long-term savings many times larger than the up-front costs. The new 2020 Drawdown ...
    5 days ago
  • After the Pandemic
    It will pass. What happens next? Not immediately, but longer term. There are many opinions, fewer certainties. Will it “change everything!” as many confidently, and contradictorily predict? In this post I look at how foresight can help bound some of the uncertainties so you can more objectively consider the future. ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    5 days ago
  • Coronavirus – Cuba shows the way
    We’ve been meaning t write something on Cuba and the coronavirus but have just discovered a very good article on the subject in the US left publication Jacobin.  The article looks at how Cuba, a poor country but one where capitalism has been done away with, is leading the way ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    5 days ago
  • Using privacy law to prevent the death penalty
    In 2018, El Shafee Elsheikh and Alexanda Kotey - two British citizens who had purportedly been stripped of their citizenship by the British government - were captured while fighting for Isis in Syria. The British government then conspired to hand them over to the US, and agreed to provide evidence ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • It’s Time For Disaster Socialism.
    Transformers: The disaster of the Great Depression was transformed into a new and fairer society by the democratic socialism of the First Labour Government. The disaster of the Covid-19 Pandemic offers a similar transformative possibility to the Labour-NZ First-Green Government. Seize the time, Jacinda! You will never have a better ...
    5 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #12, 2020
    Tamper with The System? Well, we already are. But there's a difference between accidentally trickling sand into a precision gearbox versus formulating a plan to alter it on the fly with improvements in mind. One action is more or less innocently unscrupulous, the other amenable to earning an easy ...
    5 days ago
  • Avoidable hospitalisations: Helping our health system get through COVID-19
    Associate Prof George Thomson, Louise Delany, Prof Nick Wilson While it is possible that New Zealand can use intense public health controls to eradicate COVID-19 from the country – we must also plan for other scenarios where thousands of New Zealanders are sick – including many urgently hospitalised.1 Better resilience ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    6 days ago
  • Raise the Bar: 10 questions to ask your employer proposing redundancy
    Kia ora my name is Chloe Ann-King* and I am the founder of Raise the Bar, a campaign and non-profit that gives free legal aid, advocacy and tautoko to hospitality workers in Aotearoa. Right now all over our country hospo workers are being fired at will, having shifts cut or being ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    6 days ago
  • An equitable way to support business
    The Herald reports that the government is planning to lend billions of dollars to large businesses to keep them operating during the pandemic. As with mortgage relief, this is necessary: we need companies to stay in business, to reduce the economic damage and help things get restarted again when this ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Hard News: Together Alone
    We're about to do something unprecedented as a nation. We hope that by taking this extraordinary action before a single life in New Zealand has been lost to the deadly novel virus we will save tens of thousands of lives. Our  lives. We'll do it together, in households, in isolation ...
    6 days ago
  • Why timing is everything: ‘A time to refrain from embracing’ starts today
    “There is a time for everything,    and a season for every activity under the heavens.”So writes the author of Ecclesiastes, a book in the Old Testament that’s counted as a ‘wisdom’ book and written as if by an unnamed king of Jerusalem. But who would have thought there would be a time ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    6 days ago
  • Dealing with the Covid-19 Tsunami.
    I was surprised when the prime minister described the Economic Response to Covid-19 package as the ‘largest peacetime government spend in New Zealand's history’. Reflecting – checking through history – I realised that the term ‘spend’ was crucial and the package had no income tax cuts. Even so, it has ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    7 days ago
  • What about renters?
    The government today announced the latest part of its pandemic relief package: a six-month mortgage holiday for people whose incomes have been affected by the pandemic. Which is great, because these people are going to need help, and that's what the government should be doing. At the same time, it ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Living within our means.
    Years ago the Argentine sociologist Carlos Weisman wrote a book titled “Living within our Means.” It was a critique of Argentine society that focused on the paradoxical question of why, in a land of plenty, there was so much economic instability, inequality, corruption and political turmoil. His conclusion was basically ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    7 days ago
  • Transparency and the pandemic
    Parliament will be leading by example and adjourning tomorrow after a special sitting to consider an epidemic notice and state of emergency. Day-to-day oversight of the government will be delegated to a select committee. But that's not the only overight mechanism. The OIA will still be law, and (so far) ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • ‘Overjoyed’: a leading health expert on New Zealand’s coronavirus shutdown, and the challengin...
    Michael Baker, University of Otago Overjoyed. That’s not a word epidemiologists normally use, but that’s how I felt after hearing Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s announcement about New Zealand’s COVID-19 shutdown of everything except essential services for at least four weeks from midnight on Wednesday. More than anything, I just ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    7 days ago
  • One way to solve the housing crisis
    How much homelessness is caused by house hoarding? We're about to find out. The pandemic has destroyed tourism, which means that house hoarders who put their hoarded properties up as short-term tourist rentals are now offering them on the ordinary rental market:Property investors are pulling properties from Airbnb to offer ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The pros and cons of planting trees to address global warming
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Bruce Lieberman It seems like such a simple, straightforward, empowering idea: plant trees – a lot of trees – all over the world, and watch the planet’s temperature fall. Who doesn’t love a tree or two, even far more – the right ...
    1 week ago
  • Not a grand coalition, but a government of national salvation
    According to Newshub, Simon Bridges is open to joining a “grand coalition” with Labour as we hunker down to go into a month long lockdown. The idea is sound. Before now, the role of the opposition was to scrutinise and oppose. In the context of what almost amounts to a ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    1 week ago
  • Raise the Bar: hospitality workers & wage subsidy entitlements
    Kia ora my name is Chloe Ann-King* and I am the founder of Raise the Bar, a campaign and non-profit that gives free legal aid, advocacy and tautoko to hospitality workers in Aotearoa. Right now all over our country hospo workers are being fired at will, having shifts cut or ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    1 week ago
  • Lifting our game against COVID-19
    We need to be lifting our game against COVID-19. You and I need to help those working to prevent the spread of COVID-19 while they’re trying to lift the testing and treatment efforts. We don’t want to be playing this game running backwards. Best to play it solidly forward, from ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    1 week ago
  • The maths and ethics of minimising COVID-19 deaths in NZ
    Prof Tony Blakely, Prof Michael Baker, and Prof Nick Wilson The NZ Government must do more to clearly articulate its COVID-19 strategy: eradication or ‘flattening the curve’ mitigation. But to do so means understanding the maths and ethics of both these strategies. In this blog, we adapt our work for ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • All aboard the Covid Train
    A few days ago I was starting to write something about the pandemic, which now seems unconscionable. It took the form of a letter to an agony aunt:“Dear Deidre, I have an ugly confession. I am quite excited by Covid-19.”This is how the piece went:“I’m not a psychopath, honest. Although the ...
    PunditBy Phil Vine
    1 week ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #12
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Climate Feedback Article Review... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Reviews... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... In Just 10 Years, Warming Has Increased the Odds of Disasters The likelihood of extreme events ...
    1 week ago
  • We are all socialists now
    Last week, the government announced a $12 billion initial package to support people during the pandemic. Today, the Reserve Bank is buying government bonds - effectively printing money - to keep up the money supply during the crisis. Normally such moves would have the right apoplectic. Instead, the National Party ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A plea to experts: safeguard your role in public life
    I am a pundit, somebody who opines and comments on the news. There are no real qualifications to punditry though having a rudimentary way with words and good general knowledge helps. That is one reason there is a constant oversupply of would-be pundits and why it is quite hard to ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    1 week ago
  • Enlightenment when?
    I recently encountered the following prescription from a Faculty of Education at a leading New Zealand University. At first I wondered if it was another product of the postmodern generator (http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/), designed to create gibberish in the postmodern form, but I’m told it is real: The “schooled” society: Towards the ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    1 week ago
  • What the Crisis Can teach Us
    The coronavirus pandemic has of course had a major impact on individual lives and on societies as a whole. But, long after the crisis has passed (assuming it does), we will begin to realise that its real and lasting significance lies in the lessons it has taught us, if only ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • Hammering home measures to stop COVID-19
    COVID-19 has plunged Aotearoa New Zealand (indeed, the world) into territory that, while maybe not totally unprecedented, certainly hasn’t been seen during the lifetimes of most of us here today. Our borders are closed to non-citizens, we’re being told not to gather in groups of more than 500 outside/100 inside, ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    1 week ago
  • What does ‘level two’ mean – and why does it matter?
    For the last few weeks, I’ve been urging you to prepare yourself, your family, business, and community for Covid-19. Now it’s time for real action.  Yesterday the director-general of health Dr Ashley Bloomfield announced another 13 confirmed cases of Covid-19 in New Zealand, bringing our total to date to 52. ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    1 week ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #12
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week, i.e., Sun, Mar 15, 2020 through Sat, Mar 21, 2020 Editor's Pick Now Isn’t the Time to Forget About Our Climate Change Efforts   Tasha Tilberg, Lindsey Wixson, and Liu Wen photographed ...
    1 week ago
  • Is the Guardian becoming  a real newspaper again?
    by Jan Rivers The article has been corrected to show that it was Ewen MacAskill, former Guardian journalist and not Luke Harding who travelled to meet Edward Snowden with journalist Glenn Greenwald and filmmaker Laura Poitras.  Some of the Guardian’s well-known journalists who did not sign the protest letter are ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Life asserts itself regardless
    by Cultural Worker Late March 2020 amidst the virus. With gigs crashing and burning all around it was without much hope that I called a long standing rest home booking: “ Hi, I’m supposed to be entertaining at your place this afternoon – is it still on?” “”If you don’t ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics, the possible, and the pandemic
    Whenever people demand real change from their politicians, we're told that "politics is the art of the possible". The implication is that change isn't possible, so we'd better just get used to the sucky status quo. But now that there's a pandemic, a lot of things we were previously told ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The Only Way Through This Crisis Is Together.
    Together: In leading New Zealand through the Covid-19 Pandemic, the Prime Minister could do a lot worse than allow herself to be guided by the spirit of collective sacrifice and co-operation that animated the New Zealanders of 80 years ago. Most Kiwis alive today have had no opportunity to prove their ...
    2 weeks ago
  • GFC vs Covid-19
    It is said that generals fight the last war. In the case of the early stages of the Global Financial Crisis (GFC) they had learned from the Great Depression of the 1930s and they fought intelligently and successfully. Later their advice would be ignored in favour of the Austerians who ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    2 weeks ago
  • Nobody Left Behind.
    Solidarity Forever: All over the world, the arrival of the Covid-19 virus has exposed the fragility of the walls we erect around ourselves and our loved ones. It has shattered our illusions of autonomy and revealed to us how utterly dependent we all are on other human-beings. Finally, we see ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Rebuilding a truly “Democratic” counter, or a “moderate Republican” bolt-hol...
    Looking across the various arguments for/against the leading candidates to take the Democratic Nomination, you might honestly be very hard pressed to tell. There are a number of things that have now started happening since Amy Klobuchar and “Mayor Pete” Buttigieg both threw the towel in and immediately (and ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • Abortion law reform a win for women
    by Daphna Whitmore Abortion is no longer in the Crimes Act in New Zealand. The law reform passed yesterday and now abortion is a medical matter between a woman and her doctor. Many women’s groups and progressive people have campaigned for reform for decades. The women’s liberation movement and some ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • How to spot bogus science stories and read the news like a scientist
    Doug Specht, University of Westminster and Julio Gimenez, University of Westminster When fake news, misreporting and alternative facts are everywhere, reading the news can be a challenge. Not only is there plenty of misinformation about the coronavirus pandemic, climate change and other scientific topics floating around social media, you also ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Why New Zealand needs to continue decisive action to contain coronavirus
    Michael Baker, University of Otago and Nick Wilson, University of Otago With some of the toughest border restrictions and a newly-announced NZ$500 million boost to health services, New Zealand is among a small number of countries with a strategy to contain the COVID-19 pandemic. New Zealand is also fortunate in ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    2 weeks ago
  • Parliament and the pandemic II
    As expected, the government has introduced a sessional order to allow Parliament to operate during the pandemic. You can read it on the Order Paper here, but the short version is that questions and motions can be filed electronicly, select committees can work remotely, and the the Business Committee can ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • When a virus goes viral: pros and cons to the coronavirus spread on social media
    Axel Bruns, Queensland University of Technology; Daniel Angus, Queensland University of Technology; Timothy Graham, Queensland University of Technology, and Tobias R. Keller, Queensland University of Technology News and views about coronavirus has spread via social media in a way that no health emergency has done before. Platforms like Twitter, Facebook, ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • How to survive 14 days of self-isolation
    So you’ve recently returned from overseas, come into contact with someone who tested positive, got a bit of a dry cough yourself or perhaps just want to self isolate for 14 days to avoid other people who might have COVID-19. Here are a few tips and tricks to help get ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Abortion Legislation Bill passes third reading
    Some fave speeches:     ...
    Boots TheoryBy Stephanie Rodgers
    2 weeks ago
  • Why Leadership Matters – More Than Anything.
    Our Good Fortune: Precisely because she has never been an ideologue (she calls herself a “pragmatic idealist”) Jacinda Ardern has a political nimbleness and spontaneity which, when infused with her exceptional emotional intelligence, produces spectacular demonstrations of leadership. Jacinda's empathic political personality contrasts sharply with the less-than-sunny ways of her ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #11, 2020
    2 weeks ago

  • New Zealand defence personnel conclude mission at Taji
    Following the successful conclusion of the Building Partner Capacity (BPC) mission at Taji, New Zealand defence personnel are returning to New Zealand from Iraq, in accordance with the Cabinet decision made in June 2019, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “New Zealand is very ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • State of National Emergency extended
    The State of National Emergency to help stop the spread of COVID-19 has been extended for a further seven days, Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare said. The initial declaration on March 25 lasted seven days and can be extended as many times as necessary. “Since we went into isolation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Strong Govt books support ‘go hard, go early’ response
    New Zealand’s ability to go hard and go early in the fight against COVID-19 has been underpinned by strong Government finances and the growing economy heading into this global pandemic, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Treasury today released the Crown financial statements for the eight months to the end ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Christchurch Hospital Hagley ICU to open to support COVID-19 response
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says 36 new intensive care beds at Christchurch Hospital’s new Hagley building are being fast tracked so they are available for treatment of COVID-19 patients.   The Ministry of Health is working with contractor CPB and Canterbury DHB to enable access to the hospital’s ICU, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Government supports Air NZ freight flights
    The Government has fast-tracked up to $1 million to help Air New Zealand move urgent freight to and from New Zealand, with the first flight to Shanghai leaving tonight, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. Phil Twyford says it’s crucial that trade in vital goods such as medical supplies and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
    New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
    Minister of Finance Grant Robertson has clarified that the changes to the wage subsidy scheme announced yesterday mean that employers should be passing on the full subsidy to workers, except in the case where the person’s normal income is less than the level of the subsidy. “We still want employers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
    Medical face masks from the national reserve supply are now being distributed to District Health Boards, while at the same time local production is being ramped up. Yesterday more than 640,000 masks were sent to DHBS – that is an immediate two week supply, with more to follow in coming ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • COVID-19: Further steps to protect New Zealanders’ jobs
    The Government has made modifications to the wage subsidy scheme to ensure people don’t lose their jobs during the national lockdown. These changes will soften the impact of COVID-19 on workers, families and businesses, and position them to exit the lockdown and look to recovery, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Tax relief for Mycoplasma Bovis farmers
    Farmers whose herds were culled in response to the outbreak of Mycoplasma bovis will be able to minimise the tax treatment of their income in some circumstances. Revenue Minister Stuart Nash says Cabinet has agreed to change the law. It means farmers may be eligible to spread their income over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • $27 million for NGOs and community groups to continue providing essential services
    A $27 million dollar package, effective immediately, is being provided to social sector services and community groups to ensure they can continue to provide essential support to communities as we stay at home as a nation to stop the spread of COVID-19, Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni announced. “At ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Statement on guilty plea of March 15 terrorist
    “The guilty plea today will provide some relief to the many people whose lives were shattered by what happened on March 15,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. “These guilty pleas and conviction bring accountability for what happened and also save the families who lost loved ones, those who were injured, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • COVID-19 updates
    The Prime Minister is holding daily press conferences to update New Zealanders on the Government's response to COVID-19. Links to videos and transcripts of these updates below. These transcripts also include All of Government press conferences led by Director Ministry of Health's Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield. 25 March: Live update from the Prime ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Police numbers break through 10,000 mark
    Frontline Police numbers have broken through the 10,000 mark for the first time in history as officers step forward to keep the community safe during the COVID19 lockdown. “Two Police graduations in Auckland and Wellington in the past week have been conducted in unprecedented circumstances,” Police Minister Stuart Nash said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Urgent tax measures for economic recovery
    Urgent legislation has been passed to support the package of economic and social measures needed to recover from the impact of the coronavirus outbreak. “The COVID-19 Response (Taxation and Social Assistance Urgent Measures) Bill will cushion New Zealanders from the worst economic impacts of the COVID-19 outbreak,” said Revenue Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Further support for farmers and growers as drought persists
    From tomorrow, Government support for farmers and growers affected by drought will be expanded and extended across the country, with access to Rural Assistance Payments (RAPS) available throughout the North Island, parts of the South Island and the Chatham Islands, Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced. “These challenging conditions have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • COVID-19: Temporary changes to Education Act
    Parliament has passed amendments to legislation that give the Secretary of Education stronger powers to act in the fight to limit the spread of COVID-19, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “They are part of a suite of changes passed under the COVID-19 Response (Urgent Management Measures) Legislation Bill,” Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar join NZ and Singapore in committing to keeping supply a...
    Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar have joined forces with New Zealand and Singapore by committing to keep supply chains open and remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis.  Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker today welcomed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • COVID-19: Rent increase freeze and more protection for tenants
    Immediate freeze on rent increases Tenancies will not be terminated during the lock-down period, unless the parties agree, or in limited circumstances Tenants who had previously given notice can stay in their if they need to stay in the tenancy during the lock-down period Tenants will still be able to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Working together to protect businesses and workers
    As New Zealand unites to lock-down in the fight against COVID-19, the Finance Minister is urging all businesses and workers to stay connected over the next four weeks. “We understand the extreme pressure many businesses are under right now. I know most business owners think of their workers as family ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • State of National Emergency declared to fight COVID-19
    A State of National Emergency has been declared across the country as the Government pulls out all the stops to curtail the spread of COVID-19. “Today we put in place our country’s second ever State of National Emergency as we fight a global pandemic, save New Zealanders’ lives and prevent ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Prime Minister’s statement on State of National Emergency and Epidemic Notice
    Mr Speaker I wish to make a Ministerial Statement under Standing Order 347 in relation to the recent declaration of a State of National Emergency. Having considered the advice of the Director Civil Defence Emergency Management, the Minister of Civil Defence declared a State of National Emergency for the whole of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Deadline for domestic travel extended
    People needing to travel on domestic flights, trains and Cook Strait ferries to get home before the country moves into level 4 lock-down tomorrow night will be able to continue using the passenger services until midnight on Friday, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. Domestic passenger services, particularly ferries, have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Mortgage holiday and business finance support schemes to cushion COVID impacts
    The Government, retail banks and the Reserve Bank are today announcing a major financial support package for home owners and businesses affected by the economic impacts of COVID-19. The package will include a six month principal and interest payment holiday for mortgage holders and SME customers whose incomes have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Government working to keep air freight moving
    Minister of Transport Phil Twyford has today announced details of the Government’s support package to keep key air freight moving and ensure New Zealanders retain access to essential goods during the four-week level 4 lockdown. “The Government is working with airlines and air freight operators to ensure New Zealand’s key ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand moves to COVID-19 Alert Level 3, then Level 4 in 48 hours
    New Zealand moved up to COVID-19 Alert Level 3 – Restrict New Zealand to move up to COVID-19 Alert Level 4 – Eliminate, in 48 hours Two-staged approach to give people and businesses time to prepare  Level 3, from tomorrow Non-essential businesses must close All events and gatherings must be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister: COVID-19 Alert Level increased
    Good afternoon  The Cabinet met this morning to discuss our next actions in the fight against COVID-19.  Like the rest of the world, we are facing the potential for devastating impacts from this virus. But, through decisive action, and through working together, do we have a small window to get ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt takes significant economic decisions as NZ readies for Alert Level 4 in COVID-19 fight
    The Government is announcing significant further support for the economy, workers and businesses as the country unites to prepare for Alert Level 4 in the fight against COVID-19. Cabinet today agreed to remove the cap on the Government’s wage subsidy scheme, which will inject a further $4 billion into the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt backs RBNZ move to support economy with lower interest rates
    The Government is backing the Reserve Bank’s latest action to support the economy by reducing longer-term interest rates, meaning lower costs for businesses and mortgage holders, and a lower currency to help our exporters. The Minister of Finance has signed a memorandum of understanding and a letter of indemnity with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government statement on commercial cooperation during COVID-19
    The Government has asked the Commerce Commission to take account of the exceptional circumstances created by COVID-19 when monitoring business behaviour in coming weeks.   “The purpose of my request to the Commerce Commission is to make sure businesses can work together in ways that will allow them to provide ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand temporarily closes diplomatic posts in Barbados and Myanmar due to COVID-19
    The New Zealand Government has temporarily closed its High Commission in Bridgetown, Barbados and its Embassy in Yangon, Myanmar due to the COVID-19 pandemic, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Due to the increasing scarcity of air links in and out of Bridgetown and Yangon, and the pressure COVID-19 is placing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Supporting Māori communities and businesses through
    Associate Health and Whānau Ora Minister Peeni Henare has today announced the Government’s plan to support Māori communities and businesses in the face of COVID-19. “Our Government’s $12.1 billion economic package will help many Māori whānau, workers and businesses, whether it’s through wage subsidies, income support and worker redeployment, or ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Guidelines for hospitality establishments released
    The Government and the hospitality industry have worked together to produce guidelines to assist with managing and reducing transmission of COVID-19, Health Minister David Clark announced today.  The guidelines developed between the Government, Hospitality New Zealand and SkyCity Entertainment Group, set out how the new restrictions on physical distancing and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Nation steps up to COVID-19 Alert Level 2
    Four stage Alert System for COVID-19 announced New Zealand moved up to COVID-19 Alert Level 2 – Reduce Contact New Zealanders over 70 and those with certain medical conditions told to stay at home as much as they can to reduce risk of contact with the virus Workplaces to implement ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • PM Address – Covid-19 Update
    Kia ora koutou katoa I’m speaking directly to all New Zealanders today to give you as much certainty and clarity as we can as we fight Covid-19. Over the past few weeks, the world has changed. And it has changed very quickly. In February it would have seemed unimaginable to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ and Singapore commit to keeping supply and trade links open, including on essential goods and med...
    New Zealand and Singapore have jointly committed to keep supply chains open and to remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker welcomed the commitment. “This is an important collective response, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Joint Ministerial Statement by Singapore and New Zealand -Covid-19 situation
    JOINT MINISTERIAL STATEMENT BY SINGAPORE AND NEW ZEALAND AFFIRMING COMMITMENT TO ENSURING SUPPLY CHAIN CONNECTIVITY AMIDST THE COVID-19 SITUATION  The COVID-19 pandemic is a serious global crisis.  As part of our collective response to combat COVID-19, Singapore and New Zealand are committed to maintaining open and connected supply chains. We ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Transit between Australia and New Zealand
    Travel restrictions, closing our border to almost all travelers came into force from 23:59 on Thursday 19 March 2020 (NZDT).  All airlines were informed of these restrictions before they came into force. Immigration Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says “The transit of passengers between Australia and New Zealand has been agreed upon and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • $100 million to redeploy workers
    The Government has allocated $100 million to help redeploy workers affected by the economic impact of COVID-19, with the hard-hit region of Gisborne-Tairāwhiti to be the first helped, Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford, Forestry and Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones and Employment Minister Willie Jackson announced today. Phil Twyford ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • More support for wood processing
    The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is ramping up support for Tairāwhiti’s wood processing sector to bolster the region’s economy at a time of heightened uncertainty, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. Following earlier announcements today of a regional support package for Tairāwhiti, Minister Jones has also announced a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago