National’s latest deception

98 comments on “National’s latest deception ”

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1. tc 1

   26 August 2020 at 8:48 am

   As expected Mickey. The haters and wreckers stay on brand with the outright lies and tin foil hat bs.

   Our taxes at work, it disgusts me along with plenty of former Nat voters according to those polls.
   • Chris 1.1

     26 August 2020 at 12:32 pm

     Haters and wreckers? Blinkin' heck. Please don't remind us of the source of the unfortunate use of those words.
2. Tiger Mountain 2

   26 August 2020 at 9:18 am

   National still runs the infamous “two track” strategy as described in great detail in Nicky Hager’s “Dirty Politics”, where seemingly legitimate statements made in public are actually based on illegal/dubious/unethical stuff happening behind the scenes. Plausible deniability must be maintained of course by MPs for this to work. Which of course it did not in the recent Muller/Boag/Woodhouse/Walker affair.

   At the moment there seem to be leakers and underminers galore in the public service, supplying National with detailed information on any matters Covid19 that can be converted to political embrassment for Labour. The Govt. needs to be much harder on the activities of the NZ National Party Dirty Tricks Dept. or they may come to regret putting the election date out a month.
   • greywarshark 2.1

     26 August 2020 at 10:48 am

     Tiger M +100
   • g unit 2.2

     26 August 2020 at 11:03 pm

     you summed it up way more politely then I ever would.
3. Sabine 3

   26 August 2020 at 9:22 am

   Labour is giving a lot of amno to these gusy, don't they.

   also as per your context "Can be required", not will be, not must, not are, But Can Be….which means fuck all.

   Just set rules that are binding and force returnees to adhere too, after all we can be inspected by the police willy nilly – and we have to open our doors to them to make sure we are obeying by Lock down rules, but when it comes to the returnees to this country its all 'can be, should be, could be, in the meantime the rest of the country has no idea how to plan for tomorrow or next week just in case another lockdown comes barreling down on us.

   Fuck. This is so getting dumb.
   • Brigid 3.1

     26 August 2020 at 3:14 pm

     "after all we can be inspected by the police willy nilly – and we have to open our doors to them to make sure we are obeying by Lock down rules,"

     I've heard this but can't find any legislation that refers to it.

     Could you (or anyone) post a link to the relevant legislation?
     • greywarshark 3.1.1

       26 August 2020 at 9:29 pm

       It sounds like paranoia, but can you be sure? But I don't think we have come that far yet.
4. Patricia Bremner 4

   26 August 2020 at 9:23 am

   My clearly right wing relatives are disgusted with the current mob of Gnats, they prefer Act.

   I took the high road. Said nought as they are blue blue blue.!!!

   I was however, delighted to tell them I had the hoarding for Jacinda and Claire on our lawn lol.
   They would not do that for Act…too embarrassing. Couldn’t explain the guns… assisted dying… does not go with their Sunday Christianity.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.1

     26 August 2020 at 11:54 am

     does not go with their Sunday Christianity.

     Always amazes me how many self-identified christians follow National. I mean, doesn't their Good Book tell them that everything that National does is sending them to hell?

     You'd think that they'd click with all the lies, deceit, and greed that is endemic to National.
     • Patricia Bremner 4.1.1

       26 August 2020 at 12:04 pm

       No DTB, they think as they are millionaires their God approves? "We are blessed" mentality that measures success by dollars.
       • Brigid 4.1.1.1

         26 August 2020 at 3:16 pm

         Refer them to "The Millionairess" (Maggie Smith, 1972).

         It's hilarious.
         • Patricia Bremner 4.1.1.1.1

           26 August 2020 at 4:12 pm

           Thanks Brigid, I will .
   • peter sim 4.2

     26 August 2020 at 9:05 pm

     Ooh, you naughty thing ,you.. Ihave rellies like that (sigh).
5. Just Is 5

   26 August 2020 at 9:24 am

   Its all the National Party have, Lies and more Lies, it's not like we were't aware.

   How quickly we forget the recent past of how Collins even ended up as Leader, of how many Rats have jumped off the sinking ship to save themselves from embarrassment.

   Just a shame they couldn't be on the right of history, assisting the Govt and country through this once in a lifetime Global Pandemic that every country is struggling to come to grips with.

   Oh no, lets politicise it and use it as weapon to beat the Govt with, the Govt that has impressed the the whole world with its stella response.

   There is an election around the corner and the predominate RW Media are looking for blood, any blood from any means. They won't let up until they succeed, Fake News Rules.

   Reti just showing his true colours, blue, blue and more blue.
6. ianmac 6

   26 August 2020 at 9:28 am

   My forlorn hope is that Dr Reti did not publish the tweet but someone in Brownlee's Dirty Tricks Covern did. Pity we can't ask if the good Doctor if he approved or not.
   • Sacha 6.1

     26 August 2020 at 10:25 am

     Reti is definitely the hired help.
     • Robert Guyton 6.1.1

       26 August 2020 at 10:40 am

       Rent-a-Reti?
   • Gabby 6.2

     26 August 2020 at 10:37 am

     I'm hoping someone asks Dr Shane why he left that bit out, or who did. Emotional staffer? Hammish cutPrice?
     • greywarshark 6.2.1

       26 August 2020 at 10:54 am

       I though Dr Reti was supposed to be a good, straight guy. He needs to reassess that he doesn'hasn't got patched up with the wrong gang; Maori will expect better of him and everyone is hoping that he will shine out from the murk that is National. They appear to have no scruples or morals just like any gang we disapprove of.
       • Wensleydale 6.2.1.1

         26 August 2020 at 8:43 pm

         Good straight guys don't join the National Party unless they're either willfully ignorant or subject to truly monstrous amounts of cognitive dissonance. "I will be a true patriot and serve the people of New Zealand honestly and with integrity… by becoming a National MP." It just doesn't gel, does it?
         • greywarshark 6.2.1.1.1

           26 August 2020 at 9:33 pm

           Some people still regard National as being the business class, where moneyed people with taste go, and you meet the nice sort of people when you go to their dos. It's a club really. I was just reading Cocktail Time by Wodehouse and the young men there go to the Drones and call each other Egg and Bean and Pongo. It's just a matter of finding your level where you meet the same sort of people.

           I was thinking that Reti might have misunderstood but once you adopt the posture you are lost.
           • Wensleydale 6.2.1.1.1.1

             26 August 2020 at 10:02 pm

             Perhaps he's a slow learner.

             Either way, you're right about it being the party of 'the business class'. It's just that people seem to conveniently forget the numerous ways big business and foreign corporates routinely cheat them, lie to them, steal from them, purposely put them in harm's way, ruin the environment, destroy them financially, do their damnedest to evade any sort of responsibility for their negligence/malice, and all so they can fill their coffers with your money.

             That being the case… why the actual fuck would anyone want to vote for a party comprised of 'the business class'? They're essentially the corpulent, bejewelled merchants of the modern age and their track record of social responsibility reads like a shopping list of 'Terrible Shit We Have Done For Money'.

             They can fuck off.
7. Reality 7

   26 August 2020 at 9:40 am

   Am thinking the Government needs someone to very forcefully rebut these accusations from National. Not sure who, how, where or when. The PM and her senior Ministers are likely far too busy dealing with Covid-19 matters to deal with every fire.

   Hopefully when the election campaign begins in earnest there will be vigorous reminders to New Zealanders what Collins and her acolytes and cronies have been in the past and the present. Michelle Boag for instance and her disgraceful behaviour.
   • Marcus Morris 7.1

     26 August 2020 at 10:38 am

     Willie Jackson has some excellent and robust reposte's on Face Book.

     Of course this is the Crosby Textor firm earning their money, just as they did in Australia. Dastardly and anti-democratic.
     • greywarshark 7.1.1

       26 August 2020 at 10:46 am

       The Sorting Hat has decided that all Nationals shall belong to the Slytherin House.

       Rallying cry for Labour: Motto: Latin: Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus; ("Never Tickle a Sleeping Dragon")
   • You_Fool 7.2

     26 August 2020 at 1:28 pm

     Where are those bastions of freedom and the rights of the individual…. Act!

     Shouldn't the great liberals that they are be up in arms about these authoritarian and draconic demands to force testing on to free individual?
   • Wensleydale 7.3

     26 August 2020 at 9:49 pm

     Shame Trevor Mallard's the Speaker now. He had a nice gig as resident scrapper for Labour back in the day, and they've yet to find an adequate replacement. They need someone with a bit of mongrel in them (not too much — we don't want to soil the 'kindness' brand that's been serving us so well), someone prepared to level an artillery barrage at National over their predictable dishonesty. I mean, a lot of this stuff is fairly easy to refute or dismantle for the chicanery it is, but people need to be spoonfed the truth in small, palatable doses or they suffer terrible heartburn. And… we've still a global pandemic to be getting on with.
8. ScottGN 8

   26 August 2020 at 10:13 am

   Hipkins is a great minister doing a great job but to be honest he should be able to couch his answers in a way that minimises the possibility of this sort of clipping.
   • Robert Guyton 8.1

     26 August 2020 at 10:39 am

     That's a big ask, ScottGN. When anyone is delivering as much as Hipkins is, weighing each sentence is not easily done. When your are keeping an eye on the hawks circling overhead, it's not a surprise to trip on a rock occasionally.
     • Gabby 8.1.1

       26 August 2020 at 10:55 am

       Were Crostex the pricks that edited in politicians looking blank in response to probing questions that they had in fact answered at length?
9. Bearded Git 9

   26 August 2020 at 10:23 am

   So long as National's attack line is the competency of this government in regard to Covid19 they will lose the election, so long may it continue.

   Labour will simply continue to point out that, perhaps apart from Taiwan, NZ has the best Covid19 response in the world.

   Even poster child South Korea has had over 2000 cases in the last week. NZ has had roughly 60, several of these imported.
10. Tricledrown 10

    26 August 2020 at 10:48 am

    Reti trying to sneak a little half truth into every media release.
11. Reality 11

    26 August 2020 at 10:49 am

    Agree, Willie Jackson's Facebook comments were forthright and to the point. He should be put out there in the media often in the next few weeks to counter some of the attack rubbish.
12. Stuart Munro 12

    26 August 2020 at 10:49 am

    National really need a new bright and shiny lie – the public have seen quite enough of this crap since 2008 to read between the lines.

    Or they could nut out a few policies consistent with the role of a loyal opposition – actually do their jobs for once in their trivial lives. Unbridled optimism I know.
13. Drowsy M. Kram 13

    26 August 2020 at 10:49 am

    Opposition MPs would rather play 'Fear Factor' than join 'Team Human' – can't trust 'em.

    "But rather than do the difficult task of putting forward a compelling case as to how it would get the same group of public servants to do a better job at the frontline, National is opting to erode confidence in the Government.

    Its response doesn’t shout, “Vote for National!” It whispers, “Can you really trust Labour?”

    National is trying to win back support lost to Labour by casting doubt on its capability and integrity.

    This is understandable, but National’s approach risks becoming dangerous when A. It involves misleading information, and B. We’re in the midst of a pandemic.

    Of course, the Government’s response needs to be critiqued, but at a basic level, the situation is virus vs. human. Some degree of cohesion among members of “Team Human” is required."

    https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/106605/can-nationals-election-campaign-centre-eroding-trust-labour-without-harming-covid-19
    • NZJester 13.1

      26 August 2020 at 5:57 pm

      If Covid does not kill us then National are talking about tossing out the fresh water policies Labor has been putting in place so National can kill us with bacteria instead of a virus.

      Election 2020: Judith Collins says freshwater regulations will be 'gone by lunchtime' and Government is 'destroying this country'

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300091736/election-2020-judith-collins-says-freshwater-regulations-will-be-gone-by-lunchtime-and-government-is-destroying-this-country
      • Drowsy M. Kram 13.1.1

        26 August 2020 at 7:09 pm

        Yep – alternatively the National party could keep the 'broad brush' of the regulations and simply ask Dr Smith to redefine the water quality standards.

        "Massey University freshwater ecologist Mike Joy says the Government is "trying to pull a swifty" with its new swimmable waterways plan."

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/89769055/the-new-swimmable-fresh-water-target-nick-smith-defends-his-plan

        National can't be trusted.
14. Incognito 14

    26 August 2020 at 10:54 am

    I think the letter is fake because it is not showing the Ministerial letterhead.
15. Wayne 15

    26 August 2020 at 11:01 am

    I would have thought the Minister should be able to answer how many were not tested on day 3. That is pertinent information, and the fact the Minister can't answer it is surely a failure. Good on Dr Shane for picking that up, who is taking a focused and forensic approach to his job.

    Micky, you don't yet seem too understand that the job of the Opposition is to ask inconvenient questions. It is the govt who ask themselves the patsy questions.

    So this whole item is a "fail" on your part. What you have actually exposed is that the government can't answer perfectly legitimate questions.
    • Muttonbird 15.1

      26 August 2020 at 11:06 am

      Mr. Reti could have subtracted the number tested from the total number through quarantine.
      • Just Is 15.1.1

        26 August 2020 at 10:00 pm

        Probably didn't have a calculator and only 10 fingers and toes
    • Pat 15.2

      26 August 2020 at 11:10 am

      "I would have thought the Minister should be able to answer how many were not tested on day 3. "

      Perhaps the Ministers memory failed him
      • Drowsy M. Kram 15.2.1

        26 August 2020 at 11:27 am

        
    • lprent 15.3

      26 August 2020 at 11:40 am

      I would have thought the Minister should be able to answer how many were not tested on day 3.

      Why? Apart from for political table thumping hysterics like Reti and obviously yourself.

      Perhaps you can show me a requirement that information about the number of day 3 tests is collected and why.

      Diagnostically for the purposes of quarantine it is meaningless. It is offered to people in quarantine so they can know if they have covid-19 while in quarantine.

      The relevant test for quarantine is 12 day test. At that point the probability that disease if present will be infectious and detectable is very close to 100%, and that is what determines if they can be actually released from quarantine.

      As Micky pointed out – that was exactly what the Minster of Health said, and the lying dishonourable scumbag Reti carefully managed to leave out.

      But the tweet left out important context provided in the answer:

      "… day 3 testing is not compulsory but anyone leaving managed isolation must return a negative day 12 test. If a test is refused people can be required to remain in isolation for up to 28 days."

      FFS: Wayne – you really should look at the functional requirements of a medical procedure rather than some kind of mythical meaningless political requirements.

      Try actually read the post before mindlessly spewing idiotic National party lines. That isn’t holding the ‘government’ to account. The correct person to direct the question to is the Director of Health rather than the Minister of Health.

      I’m sure that Blomfield could explain the medical reason to another doctor. It is kind of obvious even to this ex-medic.

      But I guess that is why Reti is now a politician eh?
      • You_Fool 15.3.1

        26 August 2020 at 1:45 pm

        Whilst I think that Wayne's comment misses the point of the post entirely (obviously on purpose), I do have a response to this…

        Perhaps you can show me a requirement that information about the number of day 3 tests is collected and why.

        Diagnostically for the purposes of quarantine it is meaningless. It is offered to people in quarantine so they can know if they have covid-19 while in quarantine.

        The relevant test for quarantine is 12 day test. At that point the probability that disease if present will be infectious and detectable is very close to 100%, and that is what determines if they can be actually released from quarantine.

        The day 3 test should have a significant purpose, to identify anyone who has it in isolation and move them to quarantine, so as to reduce the risk of infecting others in the same isolation facility. It also seems to me that having 2 tests greatly increases the confidence in the day 12 test being accurate if negative.

        These are probably not good medical reasons (I am not a doctor) but it seems both precautionary and statistically wise
        • lprent 15.3.1.1

          26 August 2020 at 4:41 pm

          They are isolating within a quarantine already. In other words they don’t interact with others. They eat inside their rooms. They exercise by room separated from others.

          The only risk factors are enclosed areas like lifts or stairwells. Easy enough to handle with masks.

          The main reason that they move them when they are known to be infected is more so they can get better medical care. You cannot force people to have medical care in NZ. You can force them under epidemic quarantine laws not to infect others.
          • You_Fool 15.3.1.1.1

            26 August 2020 at 5:06 pm

            Still better to separate the known infected from the others, to avoid any possibility of transfer.

            Doesn't stop 2 negatives being a higher probability of actual negative than 1
            • In Vino 15.3.1.1.1.1

              26 August 2020 at 9:41 pm

              The point about Day 3 not being a vitally important test now needs to be loudly made by Labour.

              The angelic Heather Double-silly Allen has just done a big article in the granny Herald about why she can no longer possibly trust Labour to keep Covid out of NZ.

              Personally, I would rather that we had kept her out of NZ.
              • Just Is …

                26 August 2020 at 10:03 pm

                Send her back to SA, they're response will delight her no end if she does't like NZs effort
      • Poission 15.3.2

        26 August 2020 at 2:01 pm

        "… day 3 testing is not compulsory but anyone leaving managed isolation must return a negative day 12 test. If a test is refused people can be required to remain in isolation for up to 28 days."

        Hipkins says from June 8 to Tuesday, there were 20,065 day three swabs taken and 19,473 day 12 swabs taken. There are 5204 people in these facilities, which explains why there are more day 3 than day 12 tests

        Fifteen adults have refused the day 12 test. Their stay is extended as a result of that. There have been 14 positive day 12 tests, of which 12 were negative at day 3. The other two hadn't had a day 3 test.

        And the open problem is how many children were untested.
        • Incognito 15.3.2.1

          26 August 2020 at 2:10 pm

          And the open problem is how many children were untested.

          That, and relying on the result of a test that has a known false negative rate.

          Testing has to be viewed in the context of an overall strategy and it has to be balanced against what is practical and tolerated, not just by the test subjects but also by society at large.
          • Poission 15.3.2.1.1

            26 August 2020 at 2:27 pm

            relying on the result of a test that has a known false negative rate.

            You mean the well known (but poorly advertised) problem that around 1/3 are false negative.

            https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2015897?query=TOC

            Which then requires a following line of enquiry, are the DHB's following up with the subsequent health monitoring of returnees?
            • Incognito 15.3.2.1.1.1

              26 August 2020 at 2:37 pm

              I don’t think anybody truly knows the false negative rate in the field as it is influenced by so many factors. However, I think we can safely (!) assume that it won’t be as high as 1/3 because over 30,000 returnees have been through the MIQs and if 1/3 were in fact positive we would have known it. Testing is just one metric and just one tool in the kit and to single-mindedly focus on this one aspect is like a dead cat strategy IMHO. Dr Merv Reti knows better, which begs the question why he keeps bleating on about it.
      • Wayne 15.3.3

        26 August 2020 at 9:31 pm

        Iprent,

        I know that you can be a bit acerbic, but is "the lying, dishonourable scumbag Reti" really necessary. Try are and be a least a little more dispassionate. I can think of politicians on both sides of the house which might fit at least some of your descriptors, but Dr Reti sure ain't one of them.
        • Brigid 15.3.3.1

          26 August 2020 at 10:27 pm

          Reti lied, is therefore dishonourable.

          'Scumbag' is an entirely suitable additional descriptor of one who is dishonest and therefore dishonourable.

          Wouldn't you say?
        • lprent 15.3.3.2

          27 August 2020 at 11:29 am

          I can think of politicians on both sides of the house which might fit at least some of your descriptors..

          So can I. I seldom bother to restrain my adjectives for them either (think Shane Jones for instance).

          …but Dr Reti sure ain’t one of them.

          I know bugger all about Reti – he simply has never done anything of note for me to give him any attention previously outside of moderating here. I judge observable actions that I can see and can confirm myself.

          In this case it quite clear that he has deliberately lied by omission. The difference between what is in Hansard and what was on published by Reti, as MS pointed out in the post, is a deliberate lie by omission. It is the action of a ‘lying, dishonourable scumbag’.

          Personally I can’t see any difference between that and Cameron Slater using the same kind of selective quoting to defame and lie about other people. I hold Reti to exactly the same standard as that scumbag.

          But clearly you don’t. Perhaps you’d like to explain why you think why lying by omission isn’t worth making that judgement? I’d be fascinated to see what circumlocutions you come up with.
      • new view 15.3.4

        27 August 2020 at 5:45 am

        lprent

        So why wait until twelve days to really find out if there's a positive covid infection. we understand that in theory they can't leave isolation until clear, but if they new early in isolation that someone tested positive wouldn't that be even more reason to keep them clear of anyone else? another barrier. We can see how secure some of these facilities can be. Relying on people to be honest about their own symptoms is dodgy at best I would have thought.or am I missing something.
        • lprent 15.3.4.1

          27 August 2020 at 11:14 am

          Figure it out.

          1. People flying here can have taken any time from 3 hours to a week to get here.
          2. They can easily catch covid-19 en-route. These days it looks more likely than not. Personally I’m not getting into any plane for while.
          3. On arrival passengers are almost immediately put into a quarantine isolation with due precautions to get them there.
          4. There is median time to symptoms of 5 days after infection.
          5. The infection has a time for getting a positive test after infection that may range from a day to seven days.
          6. The test takes up to a couple of days to process.
          7. The swab test tends to produce false negative test during the early days after infection.
          8. The probability of getting a false completely negative virus present test at 8-14 days after arrival is very low.

          A 3 day test serves very little purpose apart from getting those already infected into better medical care.
          It makes no real difference to the amount of quarantine isolation.
          • new view 15.3.4.1.1

            27 August 2020 at 4:51 pm

            I still believe finding out someone has the virus on day five gives those in charge that information that can be acted on if necessary. for example if one of these people breaks ranks you know you've got a problem whereas you only may have a problem if they haven't been tested positive. It might give the option of housing these positives in one area if the hotel has a problem of some kind. It is an extra test but so be it if it helps cut down the chance of an undetected breech a week later. To me the quicker you know better.
            • lprent 15.3.4.1.1.1

              27 August 2020 at 5:31 pm

              But then you’re in the probability game. The way they operate it now is to assume that everyone is infected and that is the ONLY way you can operate quarantine.

              It isn’t an absolute about when you’re going to be able to detect virus after infection. It depends on the virus load that people get contacted by. It depends on how good the bodies defences are at various levels and places. It depends on how you contacted the disease – by upper respiratory or oral.

              To get what you’re after, you’d have to test every day and still have the probability of the testing result lag causing you problems.

              Why bother? If I had my way, I’d remove the 3 day test entirely. It is a complete waste of time.
    • Marcus Morris 15.4

      26 August 2020 at 4:02 pm

      Like others have written here, I am puzzled at your response which seems to have missed the whole point of the article which is that responses from the minister have been "doctored" in an attempt to discredit him.
      • In Vino 15.4.1

        26 August 2020 at 9:21 pm

        Wayne is noted for forgetting things that matter…
        • Anne 15.4.1.1

          26 August 2020 at 10:03 pm

          
        • Wensleydale 15.4.1.2

          27 August 2020 at 12:28 pm

          Someone fetch a fire extinguisher because that was a legendary burn.
    • Patricia Bremner 15.5

      26 August 2020 at 8:21 pm

      Why are the non testing numbers important Wayne?

      As Chris Hipkins clearly explained young children are not tested on day 3, so there will always be those (and refusals on Day 12 who then have to pay for an extra fortnight).

      These types of questions are designed as "Gotcha" questions. Nothing to do with Public Safety or improvement of that. You are guilty of twisting facts to suit your narrative. You are known to do that.

      Dr. Shane Reti appears to have caught your disease.
16. greywarshark 16

    26 August 2020 at 11:07 am

    What's this about tweeting all the time anyway. Instant answers to instant questions. Indigestible fast fact fashion. Trump does it and that's a good reason to eschew it. Have information release at set times and not be bombarded with queries at other times.

    It's all part of invasive devices being inserted into lives and into a busy day. Politicians don't tweet just concentrate your mind on the job. In these crucial days with everyone anxious and we all drowning in half-baked opinions, some of them ours, shut down the tweets and use email to answer questions.
17. ScottGN 17

    26 August 2020 at 11:08 am

    @Robert Guyton 8.1

    I know it’s a big ask Robert and I know that Chippie must be working 24/7 but answering questions in the House in a way that minimises this shit happening is grist to the mill for a good minister.
    • Robert Guyton 17.1

      26 August 2020 at 11:37 am

      Sure. I bet he gets most right.
    • lprent 17.2

      26 August 2020 at 11:47 am

      He did actually answer it correctly and accurately.

      It is just that obviously Reti is too much of a dipstick politician these days to remember his medical training. More interested in scoring political points than remembering his technical training.
    • You_Fool 17.3

      26 August 2020 at 1:47 pm

      How is he meant to word it so that cut and paste doesn't distort his answer?

      I know… I… must be… shit… for… minister.
18. Patricia Bremner 18

    26 August 2020 at 11:37 am

    This is not Chris Hipkins failure. Perhaps the Deputy Prime Minister should earn his keep?
19. Ad 19

    26 August 2020 at 11:44 am

    This is now National's only vector of attack in this election, and we should expect more of them. Dr Reti is both qualified and careful … the campaign attack team however have to do what they do.

    I view this as the fault of Hipkins' comms staff, who need to provide more concise answers next time, knowing that the counter is coming.

    Ardern has chosen to make Covid19 management the core of the election. Not Covid 19. There are plenty of other media briefings she can set up.

    It's just that virus response usually sets her high in the leadership clouds away from messy reality – that's where Woods as Campaign Lead is keeping her.

    This makes Labour brittle for an election: chip away at the virus response means chipping away at Ardern herself.
    • Draco T Bastard 19.1

      26 August 2020 at 12:05 pm

      I view this as the fault of Hipkins' comms staff, who need to provide more concise answers next time, knowing that the counter is coming.

      This shows that it doesn't matter how concise the answer is as National will edit it to make it look bad.
      • Macro 19.1.1

        26 August 2020 at 2:20 pm

        
      • Ad 19.1.2

        26 August 2020 at 2:25 pm

        Of course!

        They're not there to make Hipkins look good.

        They won't get Labour under 50% vote share without another Ministerial scalp.
        • Incognito 19.1.2.1

          26 August 2020 at 2:51 pm

          Farting on a bike without a facemask would be enough for the pundits to call for heads to roll. Election time is always a good time for the proverbial guillotine makers, basket wavers, and sawdust producers. This Opposition has never been about holding the Government to account, which would lead to improvements, but always about inflicting maximum damage and point scoring. In other words, the Opposition wants Government to do worse, not better, so that they float by default to the top as the better (only!) alternative. As a ‘spectator sport’, NZ politics is worse than a brawl in a mud pit.
          • Ad 19.1.2.1.1

            26 August 2020 at 4:03 pm

            You must be old enough to remember 1999 or 2003 elections. Now they had proper mud.

            Learn to be like a pig. Intelligent animals.
            • greywarshark 19.1.2.1.1.1

              26 August 2020 at 4:31 pm

              Love how you're getting into this. Great reading, very lively, might even attract some of the less-inclined to think critically,

              Perhaps the left wing could draw some positive interest – start off the sale of cookies with messages in them and each contained an important fact about Labour's achievements and a question with a website to go to – tell us what you would like to make your life better? Everything would have to be condensed but simple, like things in Christmas crackers. Sell them at markets as money raisers for Labour – fortune cookies. It would be tongue in cheek, and one would have a prize, afternoon tea at Parliament with someone from Labour.

              Otherwise get some of that mud roll it into balls and put gob stoppers inside, and throw them at the opposition.
    • Gabby 19.2

      26 August 2020 at 6:45 pm

      So they should be called out as lying sacks of shit rather than getting the 'honourable member' kid glove stuff.
20. mac1 20

    26 August 2020 at 11:49 am

    The excerpt from the Hipkins response does not make sense. It's a non sequitur.

    It's an incredibly bad example of editing, as you point out in the main post. They would be marked down with severe correction in the margins from a marker, if they tried this form of selective editing in a formal piece of writing. Good on you for pointing it out.

    "While the Ministry does not hold the specific information requested ….. day 3 testing is not compulsory."

    It is not just an editing out of extraneous wording, which is legitimate so long as the meaning is not changed; this is an editing whereby the words after the ellipsis do not follow logically on from the subordinate clause at the beginning.

    It's shonky work, for shonky purposes.

    Meanwhile, the government continues to get 75% + approval for its Covid-19 response.

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/23-08-2020/exclusive-new-poll-how-have-testing-issues-and-the-new-outbreak-affected-public-confidence/
21. ScottGN 21

    26 August 2020 at 12:04 pm

    @lprent 17.2

    Of course he answered it correctly and accurately but, sadly, whether we like it or not, that’s not really the point of Question Time.

    For what it’s worth I think that Chippie has been doing a fantastic job as Health Minister since he took over.

    On another matter have you, by any chance, seen my comment about the reply function not working on iPad or iPhone? I realise that finding time to look at the issue might be problematic but cheers if you can.
22. Incognito 22

    26 August 2020 at 12:12 pm

    Dr Merv Reti
23. Peter 23

    26 August 2020 at 12:44 pm

    Someone commented to me yesterday about how Shane Reti presented well, spoke well and obviously had potential.

    People get upset when you say he's just a rat nicely dressed up. He's just common National political sleaze. A fancy shop window for typical nasty.
24. Red Blooded One 24

    26 August 2020 at 1:33 pm

    For those wishing Dr Reti has a more concilia'tory' behavior, don't forget he has his'tory' in bullying behavior. Denied by him, of course. Trust him at your peril.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/67441372/whangarei-mp-shane-reti-denies-bullying-group
25. Leighton 25

    26 August 2020 at 1:34 pm

    Even without getting into the out of context quote, when exactly have the Government "repeatedly claimed that Day 3 testing is compulsory"? Never as far as I can see. In fact they've been pretty clear that none of the testing is truly compulsory, but the consequence of declining the day 12 test is that you get up to another 14 days in the Rydges or the Stamford at our expense. So even the underlying premise of the disgracefully misleading ad is wrong.
26. peterh 26

    26 August 2020 at 1:56 pm

    YOU cannot make testing compulsory ,you have to take a human cell that is not legal under human rights law
27. McFlock 27

    26 August 2020 at 2:43 pm

    So they want tens or hundreds of thousands of international students coming in, while also wanting all of them tested on days 3 and 12? With what infrastructure?

    Dammit, Judith, you know we can't process your ghost tests.
    • Incognito 27.1

      26 August 2020 at 2:58 pm

      IIRC, JC has dropped this ‘policy’.
      • McFlock 27.1.1

        26 August 2020 at 4:07 pm

        Really? So they repeatedly claimed something then dropped it so they could complain about the government repeatedly claiming something else (when it didn't) and not doing it?

        The utter hypocrisy of it all.
        • Incognito 27.1.1.1

          26 August 2020 at 7:12 pm

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300085183/coronavirus-national-goes-cold-on-international-student-policy
    • Patricia Bremner 27.2

      26 August 2020 at 4:34 pm

      Ghost tests like ghost Bridges?
28. Christopher Randal 28

    26 August 2020 at 3:42 pm

    Totally predictable after Ardern extended the election date!
29. Descendant Of Smith 29

    26 August 2020 at 4:07 pm

    Pity National weren't so finnicky when they spouted nonsense like this:

    "The huge drop is a 30% reduction in sole parent benefits, by 27,000. We have a wealth of data that children brought up for sustained periods in welfare dependent households have much much more challenging lives." Anne Tolley

    Of course if you don 't count all the sole parents moved to​ Job Seeker Benefit then you'll see a drop cause you don't count them any more. Despite being completely open about having lots of sole parents now classed as job seekers the media uncritically reprinted this line every time without ever once challenging it.​​​​​​

    Labour is too of course has been doing zilch about it. Cut from the same cloth – doing especially nothing about those morally corrupt sole parents who deigned to have another baby while on benefit who will now spend up to 14 years being treated differently than other sole parents.
30. Austringer 30

    26 August 2020 at 5:46 pm

    The nats are not like the dance band on the Titanic, they are the ICE Berg it sailed into, offering safety jackets constructed of cork that like all cork took on water and got Water Logged, and sinkin those grasping them.
31. PsyclingLeft.Always 31

    26 August 2020 at 6:08 pm

    Dr Reti, (Dr Shane?) is just a Nat. Maybe slightly less slimy/dodgy than some but best not forgotten….
32. Observer Tokoroa 32

    26 August 2020 at 9:15 pm

    What's all the carry on about ?

    Nobody needs the National Party. It really doesn't do anything. – Does it ?

    It hasn't done anything for decades. Not a single thing. Mrs Collins herself is currently thinking of going underground and putting a Kauri Tunnell in the Harbour.

    It won't happen.

    She is often overseas doing nothing. Just being with her overseas people. Lips tight saying nothing.

    Quite strange. As is her Assistant the profound Mr Brownlee who has taken off Over the hills and far away.
33. Stuart Munro 33

    27 August 2020 at 6:56 am

    Leunig may have been thinking of National:

    https://www.facebook.com/MichaelLeunigAppreciationPage/photos/a.175075612678666/1465625193623695/?type=3&theater

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