National’s strong economic management …

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1. roy cartland 1

   6 April 2018 at 8:08 am

   “Clearly Steven Joyce was right about there being a $11.7 billion dollar hole in Labour’s fiscal policy”
   -fify

   [Ta fixed – MS]
   • roy cartland 1.1

     6 April 2018 at 8:11 am

     “Wagner’s suggestion Labour was not going to fund elements of the rebuild was conclusively in the second category.”
     fify

     [Ta fixed although Wanger has a ring about it! – MS]
     • roy cartland 1.1.1

       6 April 2018 at 8:22 am

       “Steven Joyce”
       “deceitful dildo-head” (this one is suggestatory)
       • mickysavage 1.1.1.1

         6 April 2018 at 11:02 am

         Haha this one is in danger of catching in!
2. Keepcalmcarryon 2

   6 April 2018 at 9:01 am

   Lol the hard working MP Nicky Wagner who would rather be out on the harbour than helping those with disabilities, her actual job.
3. cleangreen 3

   6 April 2018 at 9:08 am

   Steven Joyce was right the deficit was there but it was far bigger before the election so they hid it all as the bad press would have sent them out the door for 20yrs as the deficit is about to be released shortly when Grant robertson releases his budget and all those glossy figures previously forecast will vanish as we learn that NZ is simply broke and penniless now since nationals “strong economic management also will vanish into air as we learn all the unpaid bills the national Government left hidden in the closet from us finally appears.

   Damn the national party with their lies and deceit.
4. SARAH 4

   6 April 2018 at 9:46 am

   Yet they borrowed $90 Billion! What [deleted because it is a swear word] did they spend it all on?
   • WILD KATIPO 4.1

     6 April 2018 at 10:08 am

     They never spent it. It was laundered / divied up to foreign offshore shareholders.
     • WILD KATIPO 4.1.1

       6 April 2018 at 10:14 am

       And if any of you people are actually serious about starting from a standpoint of understanding , – and not just palavering around because you find the conversation mildly stimulating to massage your egos about being some sort of ‘ intellect’…

       Then you would take seriously the historical origins of neo liberalism in this country , and moreover, – WHO did it , WHY they did it , and just HOW they did it.

       And you can read all about it right here :

       New Right Fight – Who are the New Right?
       http://www.newrightfight.co.nz/pageA.html
     • Naki man 4.1.2

       6 April 2018 at 10:16 am

       Lay off the magic mushrooms spiderboy your hallucinating.
       • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2.1

         6 April 2018 at 2:08 pm

         No, that would be you as you continue to believe National’s lies.
       • SpaceMonkey 4.1.2.2

         6 April 2018 at 3:55 pm

         Actually no… he’s spot on. The GFC and earthquakes gave National the perfect cover to loot the NZ economy for their donors in the form of bailouts and PPPs.
         • greg 4.1.2.2.1

           6 April 2018 at 6:52 pm

           don’t forget nationals 2008 tax cuts that cost us billions.
           national has done it again they wreak the country every time they leave power
           • UncookedSelachimorpha 4.1.2.2.1.1

             6 April 2018 at 6:56 pm

             And losing billions by their mismanagement of the super fund
       • cleangreen 4.1.2.3

         7 April 2018 at 8:59 am

         Naki man,

         Was Wild Katipo getting ‘to close to the truth’ for your “comfort”?

         So that would like as if you are one of the “New Right Fight” swindlers also.
   • Stuart Munro 4.2

     6 April 2018 at 10:22 am

     “Consultants”
   • Michelle 4.3

     9 April 2018 at 10:03 am

     Don’t forget they also sold million of dollars of our state owned assets Sarah and they borrowed heavily . And to top it of Mr Cullen aka Mr mick scrooge left the gnats a nice surplus. Now we have simon ten bridges saying once again they were good economic managers. The gnats hypocrisy is disgusting.
5. Ad 5

   6 April 2018 at 10:14 am

   I love the heartfelt rage to this Mickey.

   I have a reasonably privileged life, and work reasonably hard to operate within the social and economic systems available. Usually. Apart from activism.

   But I am seeing more and more of what used to be a functioning society crumble faster at the edges in this last decade. It is damaging my wider family with hard drugs and with families torn apart and as a result children and their futures permanently damaged.

   My wider family is very, very conscious of its settler roots, and worked very hard like tradies, bushmen, fishermen, and drystock farmers do. But more of them are going backward – damaged, unhealthy, futureless, subsiding, and looking forward to the mere state pension. They have great networks and they support each other.

   It’s still not enough.

   The social and economic deficits from the last nine years are so huge, so damaging, so widespread, that it is very hard to describe the previous government as good at economic management.

   They certainly kept bits of the state alive and strong. But that’s not the same as a strong country. Or strong neighbourhoods. Or strong families.

   It beggars belief that previous Prime Minister John Key believes his greatest regret was not changing our national flag.

   This is a different start to a government, in that most major “reveals” of financial holes are done in the first PREFU. But what we are getting is what Helen Clark encountered 19 years ago: deficit after deficit after deficit, failure after failure, with the rare few creaming it and not giving a flying fuck about anyone else.

   I will try and keep my hopes up that this current government will start really leading, and not continually stumbling, but there is a very thin skin to scratch until you see that gaping mental damage underneath this society. Simply too many have been working their guts out and going backward, and that wreckage I can see all around me.
   • mickysavage 5.1

     6 April 2018 at 12:40 pm

     Good comment. It has often been said that National is great at the politics but appalling at the governing …
   • Shona 5.2

     7 April 2018 at 7:15 pm

     Right on the money Ad. My family are the same and utterly fragmented as we are now well into our second generation of FIFO workers . Since the 1830’s my family have worked on both sides of the Tasman and resided and raised their families in NZ and Aussie.We are now treated like filth in Aussie despite being skilled workers and professionals . treated like shit by authorities who haven’t resided in this part of the world for 180 years like my whanau have. That my great great grandparents achieved so much only to have their descendants made tenants in both NZ and Australia speaks volumes about how our political class has absolutely betrayed us.
6. patricia bremner 6

   6 April 2018 at 10:36 am

   Grant Robertson would be within his rights to A. Call this a state of emergency, borrow 15 billion and to forgo fiscal restraint.

   B. place a surcharge on all incomes above $150 000

   C. Publish the repair/replacement costs with the name of the National minister and the builders responsible for the debacle.. Suing where possible, explaining why not where possible.

   The recent talk of the Coalition Government being in disarray was actually a picture of the last National Government and add ons. Especially Brownlee and Joyce.

   National allowed Fletcher’s building arm to do shoddy work and do contracting. They have allowed them to separate their liabilities in such a way the building arm is effectively a broken shell.

   How do these people engineer these scams and walk away?

   They have taken huge profits… now the taxpayer will have to pay again thanks to their perfidy.

   It is why they are a distracting chorus of “Look over here !” Hiding their own pile of poop.
   • dukeofurl 6.1

     6 April 2018 at 11:54 am

     Wait till the Auckland Convention Centre build is done and costs are all known and Fletcher chases up Sky City and then finds a clause in the contract meaning the government has to pay !

     The Government gave the 3150­-person Convention Centre the green light in May, after SkyCity came back with a new design that will not require a taxpayer top-­up.
     https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/72177163/skycity-convention-centre-gets-green-light-council-grants-consent

     Looks like going over that cost would have meant Government funding ( One of Key and Joyces ‘deals’)….. oops look whats happened now , the cost is some $100’s millions over.
     • savenz 6.1.1

       6 April 2018 at 12:02 pm

       The whole business premise of Sky City conference centre was that it was supposed to be able to hold large conferences, when they reduced the size that was not possible, the entire business case (which was fake anyway) did not stand up. Yet still they go ahead.

       I believe a poll showed over 90% did NOT want sky city to receive government money. Even the Natz voters thought enough was enough!
       • veutoviper 6.1.1.1

         6 April 2018 at 4:21 pm

         I see that Colin Espiner, GM Communications, SkyCity has today replied to the claims you made in your comment in OM 27 March 2018 re Sky City and zero contracts and importing 600 chefs from overseas. An interesting read at

         https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27-03-2018/#comment-1470852
         • savenz 6.1.1.1.1

           6 April 2018 at 4:44 pm

           Great to see you supporting Sky City – reposting on their behalf from quite a while ago. Very telling.

           But sorry I should have said SkyCity applied to bring in 40 chefs from overseas… and their pay rates at the time were very low, such as a commis chefs, a junior position that SkyCity paid $16.49 an hour for – only $1.08 more than the minimum wage.

           https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/08/07/must-read-migration-chefs-and-essential-skills/

           Also in relation to the 2.2 billion taxpayers are now paying in subsidies for low waged employees… link below

           http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2018/04/minimum-wage-a-subsidy-for-business-owners.html

           It is an interesting link to read.
           • savenz 6.1.1.1.1.1

             6 April 2018 at 5:05 pm

             Not sure if this is correct but apparently Greg Sawyers (Auckland councillor) is saying that Auckland council debt is skyrocketing to 2 million a day under Phil Goff.

             Auckland 10 year budget balloons to 12.6 billion and interest payments are nearly 1.3 million a day.

             Next year employee costs alone, will equate to 50% of the annual rates revenue.

             Plenty of articles about their IT is out of control, AT is out of control, Ports of Auckland is out of control, and now employee costs. Some incredible figures are spent on PR for a start as well as the CEO structure which should just be thrown out and we go back to the old days that worked. Mayor, councillors and the council has no COO’s with fat cat salaries…

             Then maybe they can cut out that spending money for Westfield malls, billionaire yachts marinas and their own salaries can be cut down and instead they solve the problems they created in conjunction with government to bring in so many people who need Auckland infrastructure, who should never have been given the go ahead until the money for the infrastructure was in the bank, the houses were already built, the roads and public transport working, the sewerage and waste water separated property and pollution under control and the hospitals and schools with free capacity for more people.

             They were bought in for companies like Sky City to keep wages as low as possible (applying to bring in 40 chefs does not seem to equate with the CEO views that they train chefs on site) , but everyone else has had to pay for cheap businesses, well beyond the 2.2 billion in government subsidies for just the low wages but also in council rates and ballooning debt and the much poorer quality of life, lowering everyone else productivity due to congestion, now more petrol charges, beaches closures etc.
           • veutoviper 6.1.1.1.1.2

             6 April 2018 at 8:09 pm

             No Savenz – the reply was this afternoon 6 April. You just don’t like the fact that it challenges your assertions. I am a facts person not a lies person.
             • savenz …

               7 April 2018 at 7:57 am

               Are you suggesting this is not true….

               “Occasionally, Unite gets consulted by MBIE over whether a particular company’s application for the right to bring in labour from overseas should be approved. In November 2014, we got one about the SkyCity Casino. It seems they wanted to bring in about 40 chefs of various sorts. I assume SkyCity, too, are claiming they can’t find people in New Zealand to do this work. Fourteen of the positions were for commis chefs, a junior position that SkyCity they currently pay $16.49 an hour for – only $1.08 more than the minimum wage.”

               https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/08/07/must-read-migration-chefs-and-essential-skills/

               I think that you are reposting SkyCity marketing communications from March says a lot about why you are on this site.
               • Lucy …

                 7 April 2018 at 10:50 am

                 savenz why did your figures go from 600 chefs to 40 with no explanation? We do need the discussion about why companies are bringing in so many workers and not doing any training, I am not sure of the claim of biggest apprentice amount of chefs except for the army from SkyCity but if there are no facts on the table then they can not be disproved.
               • veutoviper …

                 7 April 2018 at 11:04 am

                 From your 6.1.1.1.1.1 above
                 “Great to see you supporting Sky City – reposting on their behalf from quite a while ago.”

                 From your unnumbered immediately above that I am now replying to:
                 “I think that you are reposting SkyCity marketing communications from March says a lot about why you are on this site.”

                 Again, for the record, the comment I pointed you to was from Colin Espiner filed at 3.06pm yesterday, Friday, 6 April 2018 – not March!

                 https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27-03-2018/#comment-1470852

                 It is a reply from Colin Espiner to claims that you made in OM 27 March but his reply was not in March it was yesterday, 6 April.

                 You have now said in 6.1.1.1.1.that the 600 chefs you claimed was meant to be 40 chefs – ie in line with the quote you have provided in your comment immediately above – from The Daily Blog.

                 Now that is interesting because less than two days ago at 6.01pm on 5 April – on The Daily Blog – you were again making similar claims to those you posted here in OM on 27 March 2018, namely:

                 It’s like the PHD migrant gets rejected while the 600 Chefs at Sky City or the fake cafe worker on $16.50 p/h with no degree gets the green light from immigration.

                 https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/04/05/dear-green-party-of-nz-if-you-arent-too-busy-why-the-hell-are-the-overseas-investment-office-this-actually-maybe-i-should-just-go-straight-to-david-parker/#comment-422306

                 It was seeing that on TDB and then see Colin Espiner’s comment here on TS yesterday that actually drew my attention to your OM 27 March comments – hence my alerting you to the fact that CE had finally replied to your March claims, in case you missed it.

                 To be blunt I hardly ever read your comments because I usually find them riddled with unsubstantiated claims – and cannot be bothered with them. They are also usually Auckland focussed and I am a Wellingtonian and have never lived in Auckland. I have never been to Sky City and probably will never bother doing so if in Auckland.

                 As for being on this site, I was a reader right from its early days and took some years before commenting.

                 Espiner has also been a intermittent commenter here for many years, right back to at least 2009:
                 https://thestandard.org.nz/the-myth-of-objective-journalism/#comment-169000

                 That post is an interesting one if only for the people who commented here on TS at the time – Eddie, the Sprout, Trevor Mallard, Lew, rocky, IrishBill, tiger mountain, Graeme Edgeler, Danyl McClaughlan, Russell Brown, Fran O’Sullivan. Some would say those were the days.

                 For many years, links to Espiner’s blog was also carried in the TS Feeds section in the right hand column. He and people like Lprent have had many interesting conversations here over the years.

                 But are you going to do the decent thing and also correct your very recent claims on TDB re Sky City’s 600 chefs? Bet you don’t.

                 Some of the Green Party members/supporters here on TS would probably be interested in your several comments re the Greens under that particular post – particularly Solkta whose comment here on TS you directly quoted under that post in your comment dated 6 April at 9.59am.
   • Ed 6.2

     6 April 2018 at 4:10 pm

     Definitely.
     The government should declare a state of emergency.
     Then it should nationalise the banks, insurance companies and transport.
     A significantly progressive tax regime should be put in place and corporate bludgers should be shown the door – unless they pay a significant tax contribution.
     And as stated above a people’s court set up as a means to deal with the traitors who sold this country.
     The government should stop tinkering and act.
     • Stunned mullet 6.2.1

       6 April 2018 at 5:02 pm

       😆 and 🙄
     • James 6.2.2

       6 April 2018 at 7:24 pm

       “The government should declare a state of emergency.
       Then it should nationalise the banks, insurance companies and transport“

       And watch their government implode in a couple of days
   • greg 6.3

     6 April 2018 at 7:00 pm

     there is more to come out about fletcher in Christchurch and where the money actually ended up.and there fat is chance of getting any of the money back in fact fletcher are unlikely to be a going concern.
     • Pat 6.3.1

       6 April 2018 at 7:21 pm

       I very much doubt any NZ gov will want to be responsible for placing Fletchers into bankruptcy….thats why National raised the issue of suing them
   • cleangreen 6.4

     7 April 2018 at 9:15 am

     I am with Patricia on this, ‘This earthquake history is a globally recognised human tragedy already now.’

     And if the labour Caucus or Government refuse to “borrow yet another $15 billion from foreign banks “to forgo fiscal restraint.” – then Grant Robinson should follow his ‘coalition’ partner’s plan (Winston Peters) he will have to enact the “reserve bank Act”.

     ( As we have done before) and use (QE) as many others have already done, – to print the “emergency funds” (under the Reserve bank Act) to avoid more crippling foreign interest costs on the borrowing from foreign banks for this $15 Billion of “emergency” funding for our “essential services”.

     Why is it that NZ was among very few who have not yet printed money (QE).as most of our global trading partners have done so to give them “financial advantage over us”?
7. savenz 7

   6 April 2018 at 11:59 am

   You forgot to mention their legacy of flooding NZ with hundreds of thousands of low waged workers

   Minimum wage a ‘subsidy’ for business owners

   http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2018/04/minimum-wage-a-subsidy-for-business-owners.html
8. Kat 8

   6 April 2018 at 1:03 pm

   Another narrative that needs changing.

   If you voted for the National Party then you would have to believe they are the better economic managers. That then is what 44.5% of those that voted in the last election believe. That confirms in my mind Muldoon was partly right back in the 1970’s when he said most voters wouldn’t know a deficit if they saw one. The other part that is evident today is that a fair number of voters are essentially just plain greedy, easily conned and swayed by the PR merchants and corporate media.

   And lets face it, National’s prime agenda is to keep Labour away from the treasury benches.
9. veutoviper 9

   6 April 2018 at 2:10 pm

   I note that MS’s excellent post went up at 7am this morning and thus does not appear to provide a link to the section on Christchurch EQC this morning on Morning Report when, not to be outdone by Richard Griffin’s “performance” yesterday before the Select Committee, Brownlee put on his own piece of theatre. Well worth a listen!

   This RNZ News article which contains the link to the audio of the Morning Report Espiner/Brownlee interview is self explanatory:

   https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/354266/brownlee-on-eqc-repair-bill-blow-out-you-can-t-walk-away

   This follows the two excellent Checkpoint sessions on Weds and Thurs nights which MS has provided links to in his post, under these two paras in the post itself:

   And other problems are now appearing and the former Government’s response is pretty underwhelming .. Two links under ‘160m’ and under ‘270 million.

   National’s current spokesperson on the Christchurch rebuild, Stuart Smith, was more willing to discuss the matter. He says’EQC should be seeking reimbursement if a contractor hasn’t lived up to its obligations’. Link under this latter phrase in the post.
10. Julie Berriman 10

    6 April 2018 at 2:56 pm

    What I don’t get is why MSM keeps printing the lies,

    Who is pulling their strings?
11. SPC 11

    6 April 2018 at 3:15 pm

    National was advised to enact petrol tax increases in the 2017-2020 period to afford their transport programme, Simon Bridges says they rejected the advice and said they instead decided to re-schedule projects.

    My question is whether the voters were informed of this – as to which projects would have been deferred? Reminds me of the promise to build a new Dunedin hospital which which kept being repeated because …
12. Ed 12

    6 April 2018 at 5:25 pm

    The more we hear about the conduct of the insurance companies after Christchurch ( thanks Checkpoint for pursuing this) , the more it becomes apparent we should nationalise the insurance industry.
    They do not serve the citizens of this country.
    Instead they act on behalf of their shareholders – the finance industry.
    We should remove these corporations from our country.
    • Pat 12.1

      6 April 2018 at 7:17 pm

      we could but ultimately they answer to the reinsurers whether nationalised or not…we could run our own reinsurance but I wonder if the political pressures would cause some very poor decisions
13. greg 13

    6 April 2018 at 7:10 pm

    that was a labour policy in 2014 called kiwi insure the idea was keep the premiums in new zealand and help reduce the deficit but the people loved the con man key.so here we are nact has pulled an enron style book cooking fraud.
14. NZJester 14

    7 April 2018 at 3:27 am

    The story “Brownlee’s claim that repairs weren’t botched ‘outrageous’ – lawyer” on the RNZ News website shows the evidence that the penny-pinching of the previous National government even extended deep into the Christchurch rebuild and that Brownlee’s claims that subsequent repairs that had to be redone could have been caused by subsequent earthquakes or may not even have been structural is a false claim.

    Mr Brownlee said his government had met their obligations to homeowners.

    “The government never walked away from Christchurch.”

    Peter Woods said he had no evidence to suggest the National government had walked away and he believed EQC had responded well after the September 2010 earthquake.

    However he said he believed that changed in February 2011 when EQC figured out that it would not have enough money.

    EQC confirmed that staff numbers at its Christchurch office dropped from 389 in September 2016 to 285 by November 2017. It said the decrease reflected that the Commission had completed first time repairs and was focused on settling remedial claims.

    Mr Woods said this drop occurred even though the amount of work to be done was increasing, he said.

    There was a drop in staff numbers over successive years, even though the amount of work to be done was increasing, he said.

    “That doesn’t match with what Mr Brownlee’s saying was the previous government’s approach.”

    EQC appeared to adopt a strategy to do the least amount of work, he said.

    “It appears from the outside there was a drive for cost cutting and for doing assessments and repairs as cheaply and once over lightly as possible.”

    This proves that of course the previous government “never walked away from Christchurch”, no in fact far from walking they were just slowly sneaking away a little at a time!

    Read the full story here
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/354313/brownlee-s-claim-that-repairs-weren-t-botched-outrageous-lawyer
15. Pat 15

    7 April 2018 at 4:49 am

    “However he said he believed that changed in February 2011 when EQC figured out that it would not have enough money.”

    “EQC appeared to adopt a strategy to do the least amount of work, he said.”

    “He said bad scoping was at the foundation of almost all the problems.”

    After the 2010 quake EQC were throwing money at claims like there was no tomorrow, then Feb 2011 hit and the reinsurers threatened to pull the pin, AMI was in the shit and EQC needed a new plan….that plan required a reduction in costs….both to the Gov and the Insurance industry.

    Everything EQC did from that point (aided by various other organisations) was designed to meet those new targets and involved deliberate refusal to consider any evidence contrary to their position all the way to the courts….a position demanded and facilitated by the Minister.

    That had the entirely foreseeable result of the vulnerable and financially challenged being left to carry the cost of those savings while those with the wherewithal used their ability to fight back on an individual basis (a long expensive and psychologically challenging fight in most cases)….your winners and losers, two speed recovery.

    Everything that has occured has been predicted since the very early days and dismissed by those in positions to remedy it as the ravings of a few disaffected individuals when in fact it was a systemic and deliberate policy….a search back over the multitude of news pieces and social media of the past seven years clearly demonstrate it.

    Fuck National and fuck Brownlee.
    • NZJester 15.1

      7 April 2018 at 10:21 am

      Every aspect of NZ has been penny pinched to where the rot is now just coming to light of all the stuff that National has been underfunding under their reign. The majority of the money they borrowed was just to pay for tax cuts and hardly any of it was spent on things it should have been. All that money John Key pissed away on his vanity flag referendum was money badly needed by the EQC and the health system. As the months roll on we will start to see even more of the hidden rot that National just painted a glossy coat of paint over to hide from the public. I do wonder how well built all those fancy roads they had put in are. Will they start to crumble and need major repair in just a few years time as well? Is any of that cheap steel they used even worse grade than they believed and going to come back to bite NZ in just a few years time?

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