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Nats bungle Bain process

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 pm, February 19th, 2015 - 52 comments
Categories: Judith Collins, law, national - Tags: , ,

So the Nats are writing off the 600K spent on the prior reviews of compensation for David Bain, and planning to spend 400K on another one.

As No Right Turn puts it – Here we go again. No Right Turn was on to it in September last year, Collins, Whale, and Bain.

Despite the account suspension, the Whaledump continues, with a release to the Herald of Slater’s communications with former (oh how I love saying it) Justice Minister Judith Collins. It confirms that Collins was feeding Slater dirt and routinely manipulating OIA requests for him – as were members of her staff. The Ombudsman might want to take note of that. And while its only a footnote, I suspect this bit is likely to blow up in the government’s face in a big way in the next few months:

Questions have already been asked about two other OIA requests made by Slater. There is an inquiry into a fast-tracked release of information from the Security Intelligence Service. In a separate release, Slater was sent a letter from David Bain’s first lawyer containing damaging allegations against his former client by Ms Collins’ office on the same day it was received.

So, just to make that clear, the Justice Minister used a blogger to smear someone when she was considering their case for compensation for a miscarriage of justice. Which would seem to be a textbook case of bias and predetermination, and to hand Bain his judicial review on a plate. If you don’t think Bain deserves compensation, you might want to get angry at Collins about that.

Another fine mess courtesy of Collins/Slater and National.

52 comments on “Nats bungle Bain process ”

  1. Anne 1

    Oh dear, oh dear. All the shitty debacles are coming home to roost.

    The Bain debacle.
    the Ovarida debacle.
    The SIS/OIA debacle
    The GCSB debacle
    The CERA debacle
    The Sabin debacle
    The Worth debacle (now why did I think of these two together?)
    The SkyCity debacle

    Who or what have I forgotten?

    And all they can come up with to counter their debacles are:

    A painting for charity that was signed by Helen Clark wot she didn’t paint.
    A speeding car by a naughty policeman wot tried to get his PM to the airport on time.
    Shower heads.
    Oh and wait…. never mind, a rwnj will come up with it in due course.

  2. les 2

    one good thing Collins did!Bain has never met the criteria for a payout,thank god.

    • mickysavage 2.1

      Did you ever read Binnie’s report?

      • Psycho Milt 2.1.1

        Did you? It becomes obvious within a few pages that Binnie has ignored the requirement for Bain to demonstrate his innocence and instead treated the burden of proof as being on the Crown. That alone renders his report useless, an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money. Collins was right to reject it, and any blame belongs with Simon Power, not her (much as it pains me to write that).

        The most annoying thing is that this compensation is discretionary, so Power could have responded to the compensation request with some polite variation on “You must be fucking joking, matey,” and saved us a shitload of cash.

        • RedBaronCV 2.1.1.1

          While I don’t have any particular view on David Bain the Crown had to prove he was guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Bain didn’t have to prove he was innocent.

          • Psycho Milt 2.1.1.1.1

            At his trial, sure. And the jury found it hadn’t proved his guilt beyond reasonable doubt. However, the declared criterion for compensation was for Bain to demonstrate his innocence on the balance of probabilities.

            That requirement is presumably based on a reluctance by the government to pay compensation for wrongful arrest, but it’s the requirement Binnie had to work with, and didn’t.

        • Tony T 2.1.1.2

          that is correct. Power caved in just as Phil Goff caved in before him. and on and on we go.

      • les 2.1.2

        yes I did.I agree with the critique by Fisher.This whole fiasco is the result of the celebrity halo effect of an advocate that has to all intents and purposes made a living out of it.

        • Clemgeopin 2.1.2.1

          Joe Karam is not on trial here. And he didn’t pass the legally bound judgement : The courts, judges and jury did.

      • tricledrown 2.1.3

        Binnies report overlooked basic hard evidence he was a jugde not an investigator.
        The Socks David Bain was wearing when he was taken to hospital had blood and brain particals of Robins that could have only got on to Davids socks in the same spray pattern found on the curtains and carpet,if David was their at the time of the murder.
        The skin hair blood jersey fibre found under Stephen’s finger nails was Davids no one else’s.
        A piece of fresh skin wad found on the floor in stephens bedroom about the size of a 10 cent piece.It could only have come from David DNA matched David had a piece of skin the same size missing of the inside thigh of his right leg when asked he could not answer.

        Bloody finger prints found on the washing powder box and washing machine were Davids fingerprints,the blood in the fingerprints was found to be stephens.
        39 empty 22 shell casing found next to Robin’s bed in the caravan happened to be exactly the same number as the holes David had shot on a diagram of the top of a head partitioned into 5 Areas,one for each family member.
        He would get angry go to his room and fire the 22 rifle into the board with the silencer on.
        39 Times.
        They way the family were killed was shooting through the top of the head.
        The gun found beside robin was wiped down and the cartridge with shells found standing on its side,impossible for a dead man to do.
        Could only have been done by David.
        Only Davids fingerprints were found on the gun and shells.
        Also an empty shell wad found in the computer elco.
        David was proven to be a liar when he took the stand in the first trial.
        As well he feined a fainting session in the first trial soon as he was down stairs the warden testified their was nothing wrong David was chatting and drinking cups of tea.
        Joe Karam was interviewed on an arts program by Bill Ralston Ralston asked Karam how do you become a successful writer in New Zealands limited market!
        Karam replied get hold of a subject close to New Zealanders hearts and drive it for everything you can !

        • Clemgeopin 2.1.3.1

          If you are that sure, how come the judge and the jury, who had all the evidence you claim, did not find him guilty? What was the problem? What were their doubts?

          • crashcart 2.1.3.1.1

            After reading Karam’s book I was more convinced of Bain’s guilt but being that I didn’t sit through the trial I realise I do not have all the evidence. Karam provided the evidence in a very unbiased way which I thought was excellent writing.

            A jury that saw all the evidence and had not been subjected to years of polarising coverage found him guilty in the first trial. I find it almost inconceivable that the second jury didn’t go in there with at least some preconceived opinion on his guilt or innocence. In the end he has been found not guilty and should be treated as such.

    • Tom Jackson 2.2

      Yeah he has. The police bungled the case, and he went to prison for it. If they had done their job properly, justice would have been served. Police incompetence made this impossible.

      Collins made it worse by putting ambition before duty.

      • les 2.2.1

        5 people murdered,I can forgive a few Police mistakes.The evidence is still compelling.

        • Anne 2.2.1.1

          And the evidence presented concerning Bain’s father’s unstable state of mind at the time? The manner in which lived? Is that not compelling evidence?

          Nah, I think the police on that particular case were suffering the same “tunnel vision” that seems to strike many right wing theorists including Madam Collins.

          • les 2.2.1.1.1

            there was no substantiated evidence about Robins so called state of mind…just contrived hearsay.

            • Clemgeopin 2.2.1.1.1.1

              Why do you say it was ‘just contrived’? and ‘hearsay’?

              I am not saying he did it, but can you rule him out?…or anyone else?

              • les

                Clearly contrived to try and construct a supposedly plausible alternative suspect in the face of over whelming evidence that DB was the culprit.No hard evidence to support the hearsay was provided.

          • tricledrown 2.2.1.1.2

            Anne not one bit of DNA or other hard evidence was produced that pointed to robin.
            The family was dysfunctional.
            Originally David was to be tried under the mental health act but his lawyers managed to overturn that process.
            Heresay evidence has been bandied about Robin but not one bit of hard evidence put forward.
            A copier salesman claimed Robin was shagging his daughter,saying he met Robin in the Taieri Mouth camping ground and Robin presented himself in a towel out of the back door of his commer camper van.
            He claimed that someone else was in the van but never saw or identified who it was.
            Then records at the Taieri Mouth camping ground were checked Robin had never stayed their(that was backed up by locals saying that Robin always stayed on the grass verge opposite the school).
            Then other evidence proves the back door of his commer camper van had been welded up and cupboards built on the inside 10 years prior.
            Family photos prove this.

        • Clemgeopin 2.2.1.2

          You aren’t the judge or part of the jury. Do they need to decide based on how/what you or the general public think or feel?

          • McFlock 2.2.1.2.1

            That’s a different issue to whether an injustice occurred when he was locked up the first time. And, indeed, to whether the state should be liable if an injustice did occur, as opposed to it just being a good-faith accident.

          • les 2.2.1.2.2

            Thats just a stupid statement.The present situation is about compensation,and meeting the criteria to recieve any.IMO the jury were swayed by the relentless campaign by Karam,the books,T.V appearances ,the PR of fighting to clear an ‘innocent’ man…the noble,selfless,sacrifice portrayal.It has been noted that Karam travelled to see Bain when he was imprisoned and struck a deal on any revenues generated by the campaign to clear him.

      • Murray Rawshark 2.2.2

        +1 TJ. Bain suffered for police incompetence. End of story.

      • tricledrown 2.2.3

        Bullshit TJ
        She was allowed under law to take into account evidence from the first trial to deny compensation.

        Where in a court of law ie the second trial because a senior detective had allowed evidence to be destroyed as a cost saving initiative in 1997 Thinking after the 1996 privy council ending all Bains appeals the privy council ruling was adament that no one else could have done it all evidence pointed to David.
        The National govt were forcing govt to cut costs.

    • Tony T 2.3

      damn straight. she *didnt* take the easy way out in this matter.

  3. … just to make that clear, the Justice Minister used a blogger to smear someone…

    It’s not clear at all. Favouring her crony’s OIA requests is indeed a good reason for Collins to be a “former” justice minister, but filling an OIA request isn’t “using a blogger to smear someone.” If it were, we could say the government’s used Idiot/Savant to smear people on many occasions.

  4. Kriss X 4

    Another waste of money and abuse of proper process.

    Bain was found not guilty. He has spent 13 years in prison, with no conviction. That fact alone should see him generously compensated. An independent report was commissioned and supported compensation being paid.

    A disgraced former minister arrogantly disregarded all of this and the new minister is continuing with this unsound process.

    • les 4.1

      he spent 13 years in prison because he was found guilty and convicted.In his 2nd trial when Karam said Bain wanted to take the stand(he didn’t) and tell his story to NZ,he was acquitted (,beyond reasonable doubt)

      • Anne 4.1.1

        Tunnel vision and wilful denial.

        • les 4.1.1.1

          present your evidence about Robins so called ‘unstable state of mind’…you cant ..can you?

        • tricledrown 4.1.1.2

          Anne there is none so blind as those who can’t see.
          Tell me how the blood and Brain splatter Robins got onto Davids sock’s only possible if he was their at the moment Robin was shot,how Davids skin hair blood found under Stephens fingernails!

          • Clemgeopin 4.1.1.2.1

            IF all you say is true, then how can it be that he was not found guilty ‘beyond all reasonable doubt’? Are you implying that eminent judges, juries, the law, lawyers, …are all quite stupid, don’t know much and are not as smart as people like Collins, Slater and you for example? Serious question.

            • McFlock 4.1.1.2.1.1

              nah. Just one jury. Them’s the breaks of the legal system, though.

            • tricledrown 4.1.1.2.1.2

              Clem the second trial was a farce with one juror going to bains aquital party.
              The Crown can look at the evidence from the first trial when it comes to compensation.
              Rex Haig has been denied compensation.
              Bain will be denied compensation because of DNA evidence from the first trial.
              If the cops hadn’t destroyed the evidence Bain would be still in prison.
              I have read and followed all the first trials progress and outcomes privy council appeals second trial etc.
              James Mc Nieshes book covers the whole trial,family disfunction,the lies David told in court.
              All of you naysayers have not come up with any evidence.

  5. tricledrown 5

    After the Privy Council turned down Bains appeal in 1996 A dumdarse senior detective thought it prudent to get rid of the Container full of evidence including the DNA evidence.
    The Crown has to take that evidence into Account when it comes to compensation!

  6. vto 6

    What about Scott Watson?

    dirty copper
    dirty copper
    oi oi oi

    • les 6.1

      his case for innocence is far more convincing than Bains.

      • vto 6.1.1

        Yep. Dirty copper Rob Pope needs to answer… and then get slung behind bars in place of Watson

        • tricledrown 6.1.1.1

          Vto so how come Scott Watson spent his holidays cutting blood splatter the size of 10 Cent pieces and larger out of squabs on his boat knowing in those days you needed that size or larger to get a DNA match.Also scraping down and painting the entire inside of his boat.
          If those squabs are still in evidence storage mitcondrial DNA could be checked.
          Like wise new technology discovered at Otago University.
          Can prove by the angle and distance of blood and skin muscle brain particle drops where shots and murderer were standing.
          Bain had brain and blood splatter droplets on his socks he was wearing when taken from his house.
          Which could have only got their if he was in the room when his father was shot.
          Bain won’t get compensation!

          • vto 6.1.1.1.1

            where is the ketch?

            how does an experienced boatie mistake a small sloop for an old weather-beaten rope-laden two-masted ketch?

            dirty copper
            dirty copper
            oi oi oi

            • tricledrown 6.1.1.1.1.1

              The socold experienced boaty was on his first day on the job as a water taxi driver.
              No ketches were registered or seen during the daytime.
              Yatch parked up against each other side by side can give the appearance of a bigger boat with multiple mastes.
              Especially in the dark.
              Next time your near a marina at night go down to water level and have a look very deceptive.
              From an experienced boatie!

              • vto

                Yes well me too. Anyways, these is a website about the miscarriage that I think has occurred here. All info there.

                Rob Pope, ambitious for being NZ’s leading copper was quietly told to shove off soon after this debacle of a case, pretty much never to be heard of again.

                dirty copper
                dirty copper
                oi oi oi

            • tricledrown 6.1.1.1.1.2

              Vto so why would someone cut holes in perfectly good sqaubs (blood splatters were found all over these squabs none large enough to retrieve a DNA sample all larger blood marks had bern delibetately and thoroughly removed to avoid detection)all larger than 10 cents.
              Tell me vto.
              No paint or modifications were found on the outside of the boat.
              But barnacles and growth had been worn off one side of the boat by something heavy being dragged by a rope.
              Watson was seen behaving suspicsously in the Tory chanel for no good reason denying he was even their!

  7. Tony T 7

    Look , this Bain crap goes way way back. It happened because a certain footy player thought he was a good judge of character. It goes way back to before this Govt. Who got Bain his second shot at the Privy Council? His first one failed him, just as his first court of appeal failed him. And rightly so.
    The person who got Bain his second shot the the PC was none other than Phil Goff, in around 2000.
    Get your facts straight people. ! Bain reached the end of the line back then….and Goff could have drawn the proverbial line in the sand. Instead, he caved to the pressure and….here we all still are today. To blame the current or even the previous Govt is unfair. Blame Karam. IF Cabinet sends them both packing in one year’s time when Bain fails to prove innocence on BOP, look forward to another 20 years of BS re Bain. The Bain Drain is bottomless, have you not realised that yet?

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  • NZ Principals Federation MOOT SPEECH -Friday 10 June 2022 
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  • Pre-departure tests removed from June 20
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  • Foreign Minister to attend CHOGM
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  • Joint Statement: Agreement on Climate Change, Trade and Sustainability (ACCTS) at MC12
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