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Nats repeat failed bootcamp policy in plea to rally their scared angry base

Written By: - Date published: 7:01 am, August 15th, 2017 - 30 comments
Categories: bill english, crime, national, useless - Tags: , , ,

This is pathetic:

PM: There’s no evidence boot camps for young serious offenders will work

National is promising to create a new boot camp for youth offenders at the Waiouru Army base to crack down on 150 of the country’s most serious young offenders.

English has acknowledged there isn’t any evidence junior military training alongside New Zealand’s soldiers will work because an Academy hasn’t been tried before. …

Oh please. “Get tough on kids” boot camps have been tried many times in many forms in many countries. They are a failure, they increase re-offending rates.

English is just repeating National’s failed policies of the past – this was Key’s big policy idea in 2008:
FACT SHEET: Fresh Start for Young Offenders (2008)
Key gets booed on boot camps (2008)
Judge puts boot into boot camps (2009)
Youth re-offending after attending boot camps (2012)
Teenagers assaulted, abused at boot camp (2013)

English wants us to believe that this time it will be different, but check out the 2008 Fact Sheet. All the same rhetoric is there, the worst of the worst recidivist offenders. A comprehensive long-term programme. Blah blah blah.

English wants us to believe that this time it will be different because this has “never been tried before”, its “alongside soldiers” (only without the guns, probably, English doesn’t seem sure). Bollocks. From 2009:

Army to run teens’ boot camps

The army will run boot camps to keep the worst teenage offenders on the straight and narrow under youth justice provisions to go before Parliament tomorrow.

Forty of the most serious repeat offenders each year will undergo three months’ military training as part of 18 months’ intensive supervision under the plans.

Social Development Minister Paula Bennett said the boot camps would follow six-month residential programmes and be followed by a further nine months’ supervision.

National promised the boot camps before the election, but it was not revealed till yesterday that they would be run by the army. …

The poor Nats are bit defensive about being called on recycling failed policy: Amy Adams: “Boot camp policy not a rehash of 2009”. Yeah it really is. Been there, done that, doesn’t work, doing it again.

What English’s is going here is pure panic politics:
Mark Sainsbury: National’s bootcamp policy is for voters, not offenders
National’s boot camp policy a dog-whistle to Winston First voters …
Maori Party: National’s boot camp plan an ‘attack on Maori and Pasifika children’

It’s all about the votes. Looking “tough” to try and shore up their scared angry base. Even ACT knows better than this: Forget boot camp, fix failing schools.

More than any other flailing to date, this mess is a sign of National’s desperation.

30 comments on “Nats repeat failed bootcamp policy in plea to rally their scared angry base ”

  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

    Is it time “turning sadistic vengeance fantasies into policy” became a section in the Crimes Act?

    Get tough on sadists.

  2. Cinny 2

    National have been ridiculed across all news platforms with their boot camp.

    They look like desperate fools. What an election

  3. Hooch 3

    After bleating that labour need to announce policy they are now having to scramble to announce some of their own as labour have dominating the media with their releases. And given they have none they need to rehash some crap and a bit of red meat for their rump at that.

  4. Even ACT knows better than this: Forget boot camp, fix failing schools.

    I see your point, but let’s add the disclaimer that ACT emphasises schools because it can’t mention the actual problem – poverty and inequality.

    • The Fairy Godmother 4.1

      Agree here pm. Schools are the whipping boy for failed social welfare policies and povetry. It’s hard to teach transient children whose attendance in slack due to factors like no food in the house for lunch no money in the house for uniforms or school trips or looking after younger siblings so mum doesn’t lose her casual job with no sick leave.

  5. The decrypter 5

    To balance things up somewhat quite a few drunken night time talk back callers are fully supportive of bills boot camps. A drunken vote is a good vote in bills eyes. Now to you “boot camp lot”-that’s the low life version, -your version of bills solution. It is correctly titled, for unwashed rabble like you, “Defence Forces junior academy at Waioru”. Suppose there will be a graduation and everything that glitters. Think positive.

  6. ianmac 6

    Even National’s Barry Soper has a go.
    “National dusting off policy from its election war chest.”

  7. jcuknz 7

    I do not see anything wrong with the idea except I wonder which works out to be the best ‘crime academy’ … Prison or Army training plus the sic months supposedly learning what schools should have taught them to preface the army trng.
    The hysteria of this thread reads little different to what one reads on the right and can be ignored as silly politicaning.

    • red-blooded 7.1

      jcuknz, if you’re wondering which is the best crime academy, prison or army training, try reading some of the links to actual research in this area. There was a posting on this yesterday with some very calm, reasoned, evidence-based research being reported, showing that intervention through these boot camps raises recidivism. And it’s not like there are just two choice – boot camp or military training. Our society can make other choices. We can invest in family counselling, we can resource school more effectively to help meet the needs of students at risk, we can resource mentoring programmes, we can give more support to struggling families (including more reasonable rates for those living on benefits), we can provide more funded training through apprenticeships and polytechs…. If you don’t like the comments being made, just check out the resources being provided. It’s pretty clear that this is a negative and (more importantly) an ineffective style of intervention.

      • Rosemary McDonald 7.1.1

        “Our society can make other choices. We can invest in family counselling, we can resource school more effectively to help meet the needs of students at risk, we can resource mentoring programmes, we can give more support to struggling families (including more reasonable rates for those living on benefits), we can provide more funded training through apprenticeships and polytechs…”

        All very excellent proposals…but what about the small but significant group of young offenders who have already settled deeply into life at the extreme of the margins, and for whom these preventative measures will come too late?

        Do we write them off?

        Do we create a programme of compulsory one on one intervention where the young person gets round the clock support and supervision to address substance abuse issues, literacy and numeracy, mental and physical health etc. etc.

        The ‘Boot Camp’ idea is a cheap option….warehousing is so much more cost effective (in the short term)…but if we are going to completely dismiss this, we need to have some suggestions as how this small group of young offenders already set on the path to prison can) be turned around now.

    • KJT 7.2

      Saying we should follow evidence, is hysteria?

  8. joe90 8

    its “alongside soldiers” ,

    In 2008, Minister of Defence Goff spelt it out.

    “The New Zealand Defence Force is strongly opposed to changing the nature of the successful Limited Services Volunteer course to include youth offenders.

    “They advise me that the Army does not have the necessary and relevant skills for changing the behaviour of young offenders. Placing offenders on the course would create serious problems and risk detracting from the nature and success of the LSV programme.

    “The Defence Force is also adamant that its focus must be on training highly professional and technologically skilled personnel for service in serious and dangerous international deployments. Making the Defence Force a dumping ground for offenders is not consistent with that objective,” Mr Goff said.



  9. Cemetery Jones 9

    I’m just sitting here wondering what the poor bloody army has done to deserve this.

  10. Ethica 10

    Google Te Hurihanga. It was a programme set up by the Labour government and closed down by this one just as it was starting to have an effect. It was supported by judges and others working in youth justice. Jacinda name-checked it yesterday.

  11. NZJester 11

    Yet another rehashed policy that will do more harm than good if implemented.
    National is lacking future planning skills. Most of the long term planning has been done under previous Labour Governments and nearly all of the problems we are seeing today with, youth offending, housing, and Auckland’s traffic problems are the result of National canceling most of the planning put in place by Labour.

  12. rod 12

    I note nobody in the media is asking Boring Bill how much his boot camps are going to cost the taxpayer.

  13. mary_a 13

    National’s policy is to teach troubled youth more violence, a policy which obviously appeals to the nasty, vicious streak in its supporters.

    Compare …

    Labour youth policy – educate youth to prepare for the world they will be eventually living in as (responsible) adults.
    National youth policy – teach already troubled youth more violence.

    No contest really is it?

    Bye bye Natz … turn off the lights and shut the door on your way out.

  14. jcuknz 14

    I am sure that a ‘boot camp’ with roaring Sgt or CSM would encourage the already alienated to stay or increase their alienation … but the point is it is not the boot camp of old which our PM emphasied. But of course the left and the media immediately called it that to attack the govt.
    My question really was sarcasm and I fully support the excellent alternatives suggested.
    All are the ‘humanity’ badly needed by National to balance and temper their good policy which is making the country hum while neglecting various sectors.
    I did three months army basic training and it did me no harm, but likely I wasn’t alienated at the start, though I was glad to be out after my two years was up and I didn’t have to serve in the Korean War. Was lucky to serve at a base unit and saw those returning from Korea in shit state, poor devils.
    I believe that the army part follows six months of ‘community education’ which some how the education system failed with, and I am sure our welfare state didn’t help with the tight fisted ideological thinking of both National/Labour and now National again.
    Which takes us back to Turie’s child rearing time.

  15. Eco maori 15

    The boot camp policy of Bill English is total obnoxious rubbish anyone that has brought up Children no that children learn most of there bad habits off other children now in the business world they reward good behavior it would be better and cheaper to try something along those lines but the naysayers will have a field day trashing a policy ideas like that so we need to provide the policy and environment so our children don’t learn bad shit .One old saying I heard you can turn shit into honey but it cost a lot of money all As for the fines that just gives the police more power to interfere in the vanerable people’s lives who are just surviving who would not pay the fine anyway

  16. Eco maori 16

    F I tried to edit the the shit saying out and use the can’t teach a old horse new tricks and better to use a carrot than a stick

  17. Eco maori 17

    BM it could work but a lot of these kids don’t even no there Maori Tanga it would be a lot better than boot camp

    • BM 17.1

      Does that even matter?
      Get the basic of learning how to be a decent controlled human being sorted first, then move on to the who you are stuff once that’s sorted.

    • jcuknz 17.2

      Not no there but I think you mean know their.

      After six months learning what school didn’t succeed in teaching them I am sure they would be better.

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