web analytics

Nats say: land owned collectively

Written By: - Date published: 12:31 pm, September 20th, 2012 - 30 comments
Categories: treaty settlements, water - Tags:

Anyone notice that the Right’s arguments against ownership of water – apart from being a willful confusion of ownership in rights to water, which is what iwi are actually inserting and which are clearly enjoyed by a range of people under our law at present, and ownership of water itself (something, apparently, limited to bottled water sellers) – would apply equally to land?

For example, today’s Dom editorial says iwi can’t own water because it was here before Maori and will be here long after we’re all gone. I look forward to their next editorial on how all land should be held communally by the same logic.

Then, there was Key on Q+A last weekend:

I think you have to accept that elements like water and wind and the sun and air and fire and all these things, and the sea, along with natural resources like oil and gas, are there for the national interest of everyone. They’re there for the benefit of all New Zealanders, not one particular group over another.

Apart from the fact that I don’t think my neighbour would be happy if I came over and told him to make space by the hearth because all fire is for the benefit of all New Zealanders, isn’t Key also saying that all land ought to be owned collectively for the good of all of us?

Forget the water, Key’s radical agenda is to nationalise all the land.

Or is it, maybe, just maybe, that the Right will pull out whatever bullshit arguments they like to defend existing privileges and avoid honouring the Treaty, and they have no attention of applying those principles at all?

30 comments on “Nats say: land owned collectively ”

  1. Roy 1

    Their rural supporters would not like that. Not one little bit!

  2. BernyD 2

    Crazy thing is it’s the same argument …
    In a real time Quantum Science sense “Everyone is standing on the ground therefore they own it”
    We exist, Thanks National.

  3. CnrJoe 3

    who owns the cow piss?

  4. deemac 4

    seriously though, ownership of water is not much use without the means to distribute it. A test case in England (on whose law the NZ system is of course based) decided that water rates are not paid for the water (which is free) but for the cost of cleaning and delivering it and removing waste water.
    Not to mention upkeep of waterways…

  5. Matthew 5

    I cant wait to get my allocation of Oil, Gas, Coal, Gold, Aluminium, Steel, and any/all other natural resources that we all own.

  6. Uturn 6

    What philosophical basis has the sun as an element?

    I’ve heard of earth, fire, sea, sky and wind; or water, earth, air and fire; or fire metal earth water and wood; and believe there was at one time band called Earth Wind and Fire. But no mention of sun. This could be the core problem witholding understanding of good faith talks from Key’s mind.

    • BernyD 6.1

      The same as earth and wind, based on current quantum ideology

    • Te Reo Putake 6.2

      “What philosophical basis has the sun as an element”
       
      This one?

      • Uturn 6.2.1

        Someone check John Key’s shoes. He may be dream sent to us from the Old White People. If he is, who is the message for, anyone that can see him?

    • Roy 6.3

      I own the sun, but I am very generous so you can all use it free of charge, provided you hold me not accountable for sunburn, solar flares, droughts or other adverse outcomes of the sun or exposure to it.

  7. vto 7

    This is not surprising.

    It has become apparent that pretty much all of the right’s arguments either don’t make sense, or they don’t even follow what they preach.

    Here is another example. Christchurch CBD rebuild. Clean slate. Perfect opportunity to test out the free market approach. Never ever been a better opportunity. But what they do? Intervene in the most massive way possible. Proof clear that even they don’t believe their bullshit (oh, except when it comes to east Chch residents. Then it is “oh no we don;’t want to interfere, the market will sort it out).

    They have no credibility.

  8. interesting point about ownership of things you cant hold, water air etc, what about radio frequencies, governments have sold off radio frequencies for millions. if nobody owns water, surely that also applies to radio waves???????

    • Carol 8.2

      And ownership of ideas? Concepts? Logos?

      • BernyD 8.2.1

        You can expand a thought much more quickly that way,
        It’s the implementation that deserves re imbersement

    • Uturn 8.3

      Or possibly if you can own radio waves then you can own water?

      It depends what you’re using to measure the “can” part of the premise. Can or can’t own is the same question.

      Last night I watched a bit of “afternoon tea with old people” on Maori TV. Interesting stuff. Among other things, they got to talking about the nature of horticulture and specifically, their favourite types of maori potatoes. The young interviewer says something to the old guy along the lines of, “Maybe growing and selling peruperu is a good way for our people to get some money.” And the old guy says, “Oh no, no, just give them (pakeha) some.”.

      The idea of a thing being it’s monetary value is a dangerous idea in the minds of modern people. They get to thinking that because something can be bought, it is theirs already, they just haven’t made the monetary exchange. Not only that, but they isolate themselves from the nature of the thing they buy, what it truly is, and the nature of the person from who they buy. To some minds, to buy a peruperu would be to lower the stadning of the person who offered the food and an attempt to shut half the world out of consciousness. There is more to life than what can or can’t be owned.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1

        There is more to life than what can or can’t be owned.

        QFT

        Unfortunately, our present system was designed by people who can’t see that because all they want/ed is to have power over others and they get that through ownership.

        • Populuxe1 8.3.1.1

          Saying capitalism was “designed” is like believing in intelligent design. It’s a mightily flawed system, but it evolved organically – no secret conspiracy dreamed it up and it’s lineage can be plotted historically. Believing that it’s a conspiracy might make you feel better about basing your entire world view on the theories of a long dead German philosopher the way fundamentalist Christians thump the Bible, but misusing the English language will not make it so.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1.1.1

            It’s a mightily flawed system, but it evolved organically – no secret conspiracy dreamed it up and it’s lineage can be plotted historically.

            Yep, and the people who made up the rules about it were the people who benefited from the rules they wrote.

            Believing that it’s a conspiracy…

            I didn’t say that it was a conspiracy. The rules were written well out in the open with full input from the people…

            Oh, wait, no they weren’t. That’s why we have the OIA (which doesn’t go far enough) and why we’re getting pissed that the TPPA is being discussed behind closed doors by the people who will benefit (the corporations have a say, the people don’t).

            • Populuxe1 8.3.1.1.1.1

              I didn’t say it was fair. Cancer is natural but no one designed it.

              Oh, wait, no they weren’t. That’s why we have the OIA (which doesn’t go far enough) and why we’re getting pissed that the TPPA is being discussed behind closed doors by the people who will benefit (the corporations have a say, the people don’t).

              That’s globalisation – a largely political agenda, and a completely different kettle of fish altogether.

              • Draco T Bastard

                /facepalm

                The whole of history has been full of political agenda. Instituting capitalism while trying very hard not to allow democracy was the political agenda of the capitalists at the time. The armed serfs had their own agenda as well and that’s why we actually have representative democracy – it was pragmatism on the part of the capitalists who didn’t want to be on the receiving end of those arms that had just defeated the monarchy while also allowing them to maintain control in a hierarchical system.

                • Populuxe1

                  That’s the the traditional philosophical apology for why we haven’t wholly embraced Marxism naturally as the great man predicted – it’s someone else’s fault!

  9. Draco T Bastard 9

    …and they have no intention of applying those principles at all?

    FIFY

    And they have no principles to apply.

  10. XTASY 10

    Aqua y solar. Nice that is. So nobodye also has rights resutling of use of such? Electricity ofr a chance? I pay it every month, so is also water, power all that “free”? BSS distraction.

    Revolucion:

    Viva!

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Community voices amplified in fight against alcohol harm
    Alcohol licensing hearings will become more accessible and less adversarial as the Government removes barriers preventing community voices from being heard, Justice Minister Kiri Allan said today. A Bill making targeted changes to the licensing process in the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act 2012 has been introduced to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • GOVT to provide further funding to Ruapehu Alpine Lifts
    The Government has decided to advance a further $6 million bridging funding to allow time for MBIE through Kanoa-RDU to support the development of an alternative commercial solution. “Following discussions with affected stakeholders, including other creditors and iwi, it has become clear that more time is needed to further explore ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Government delivers safer roads for Waimakariri
    Associate Minister of Transport Kieran McAnulty was in Waimakariri this morning to mark the beginning of work on a $41 million programme to improve road safety in the Waimakariri district. “The projects started today is critical for the people of Waimakariri as it will address the stretch of SH1 between ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • International tourists bring over $1b into economy
    Spend from all international visitors totalled $1.03 billion in the September 2022 quarter Holidaymakers spent $479 million Visitors for friends or relatives spent $292 million Tourism Electronic Card Transactions spend in 8 regions (out of 16) was higher than October 2019 levels pre-COVID The release of the International Visitor Survey ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Launch of Te Ara Paerangi Future Pathways
    E ngā mātāwaka, E ngā iwi o te motu, Tēnā koutou katoa. Ko Ayesha Verrall ahau, Te Minita mō te Rangahau, Pūtaiao me te Auahatanga. Tēnā koutou i runga i te kaupapa o te wā, Nō reira, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā tatou katoa.   Acknowledgements It is a privilege ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Reform of science system to build better future for New Zealand
    The Government has set the direction for a future-focused science system says Research, Science and Innovation Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall. Our research, science and innovation system will be geared towards tackling New Zealand’s big challenges such as climate change, environmental degradation and the complex health and problems that undermine wellbeing. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Te Rohe o Rongokako Joint Redress Bill Third Reading I Te Pānuitanga Tuatoru o te Pire mō te Puret...
    Te Pānuitanga Tuatoru o te Pire mō te Puretumu Ngātahi mō Te Rohe o Rongokako I te rā nei, i Pāremata, ka oti te tuatoru me te whakamutunga o ngā pānuitanga o te Pire mō te Puretumu Ngātahi mō te Rohe o Rongokako. Ko tā te pire, he whakatinana i ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Hi-tech New Zealand strawberries on the horizon
    New Zealanders will be able to enjoy spray-free strawberries grown through a hi-tech new system almost all year round through a Government-backed pilot project based in Foxton, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor announced. “We’re focussed on innovations that lift the sustainability and productivity of our food and fibre sector and this ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Cadetships programme continues to empower whānau Māori
    Since July 2022, more than 610 cadets across 35 programmes have been approved, up from the 499 cadets approved by this time in the last financial year. The programme is growing. “The Cadetship programme’s ongoing success comes down to treating our young people with mana so that they can achieve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New rules for offshore detention complete Govt response to Operation Burnham inquiry
    The government has announced a new set of rules to ensure proper and humane treatment of people detained by Police, Defence forces, or other New Zealand agencies during offshore deployments. The Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta says the new framework for offshore detention delivers on the fourth and final recommendation accepted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • 19 new townhouses for whānau in need in Lower Hutt
    Associate Minister of Housing (Māori Housing) Peeni Henare today visited Kahungunu Whānau Services and their newly purchased 19 townhouses in Taita, Lower Hutt. “Through the Government’s Te Kahui Māori Housing programme, Tātai Mokopuna Holdings Limited (the asset holding company of Kahungunu Whānau Services)  was granted a $7.1 million Māori housing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government backs greater competition in building supplies to reduce costs for Kiwis
    The Government will take action to increase competition in the residential building supplies sector, says Building and Construction Minister Dr Megan Woods and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Dr David Clark, following the release of the Commerce Commission’s market study final report. “We asked the Commerce Commission to review our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Royal Commission to draw lessons from pandemic response
    A Royal Commission to prepare New Zealand for future pandemics through lessons learned from COVID-19 has been announced by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern today. “Every country in the world has grappled with COVID-19 and there was no playbook for managing it,” Jacinda Ardern said. “It had been over 100 years ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Minister Sio to discuss Pacific development priorities
    Associate Foreign Affairs Minister Aupito William Sio travels to Indonesia this week to represent Aotearoa New Zealand at the Indonesia Pacific Forum for Development and the 15th Bali Democracy Forum. “Attending these international meetings enables Aotearoa New Zealand to connect with our partners kanohi ki te kanohi, or face to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Changes to partner work visas deferred to April 2023
    Changes to partner work visas that were set to come into effect in December 2022 have been deferred to April 2023, Immigration Minister Michael Wood has announced today. “I have made the decision to defer these changes to April 2023,” Michael Wood said. “Our Government wants to provide greater certainty ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Building Act changes put the environment at the heart of how we build
    The Government is taking action to reduce waste and lower emissions from the building and construction sector in significant Building Act amendments announced today. “This Government is proud to put the environment at the heart of how New Zealand builds. By enabling mandatory energy performance rating requirements for buildings, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Govt’s medicines boost paying off for New Zealanders
    Pharmac’s plan to fund the cystic fibrosis medicine Trikafta is another example of the Government’s boost to the medicines budget helping New Zealanders, says Health Minister Andrew Little. “Pharmac, not politicians, makes the decisions on what treatments to fund, but politicians decide what funding to provide to Pharmac, and health ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Better transport choices for New Zealanders
    Forty-six councils across Aotearoa New Zealand, from large metro centres to small provincial towns, will receive funding to implement more transport options for communities, as part of the Transport Choices package 2022-24, Transport Minister Michael Wood announced today. “The Government is upgrading New Zealand’s transport infrastructure system to make it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Te Rangiwaituhi – Maniapoto apology
    Mihi Ko taku rourou iti a haere, maringi kai whenua Ko taku rourou iti a haere, maringi kai moana kia mau ki te kawau māro, whanake ake! kō Maniapoto e! Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa   Greetings and Thanks As we gather here this morning I want to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Maniapoto receives Crown Apology – Ka whakawhiwhia ki a Ngāti Maniapoto te Whakapāhatanga a ...
    Kua tukuna e te Pirimia, e Jacinda Ardern, i te taha o te Minita mō ngā Take Tiriti o Waitangi, a Andrew Little, te Whakapāhatanga a te Karauna ki a Ngāti Maniapoto mō āna mahi o mua i takahi i te Tiriti o Waitangi. I tū te hui i Te ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Big online platforms to pay fair price for local news content
    The Government will legislate to require big online digital companies such as Google and Meta to pay a fair price to New Zealand media companies for the local news content they host and share on their platforms, Minister of Broadcasting Willie Jackson announced today. The legislation will be modelled on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government to remove entrenchment from Three Waters legislation
    The Government will fix the Water Services Entities Bill this week by removing the entrenchment clause that was voted on during committee stages, Leader of the House Chris Hipkins announced today. “It was a mistake to put the entrenchment clause in and the Government will fix the issue as soon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • 10 new whare for Ngāi Tāmanuhiri kaumātua and whānau in Te Muriwai
    Associate Minister of Housing (Māori Housing) Peeni Henare joined Ngāi Tāmanuhiri and the wider Toitū Tairāwhiti collective, at the opening of 10 new homes built for kaumātua and whānau in Muriwai today.   “Every whare that is built and whānau that is transferred from inadequate housing to a warm dry ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Joint statement: Australia and Aotearoa New Zealand Foreign Minister Consultations
    Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator the Hon Penny Wong welcomed Aotearoa New Zealand's Minister for Foreign Affairs, Hon Nanaia Mahuta to Canberra today for biannual Australia – Aotearoa New Zealand Foreign Minister Consultations. The Ministers acknowledged the unique strength of the relationship between Australia and Aotearoa New Zealand, reaffirmed the shared ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Funding boost for kaupapa Māori response to homelessness
    Associate Minister of Housing (Homelessness) Marama Davidson has announced a significant funding boost today for kaupapa Māori approaches that support whānau into housing. $24.7 million will be allocated to support the delivery of He Ara Hiki Mauri – a tangata whenua-led response to homelessness. “Homelessness is not inevitable. By working ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Appointment of Judge of the High Court
    Auckland barrister David Gary Johnstone has been appointed a judge of the High Court, Attorney‑General David Parker announced today. Justice Johnstone graduated from the University of Auckland in 1991 with a BCom/LLB(Hons), and joined Bell Gully as a solicitor, practising in general commercial litigation. During 1993 and 1994 he studied at the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • MAIHI Whare Wananga celebrates innovative approach to Maori Housing
    New Maori Housing dashboard for better data sharing and better outcomes New development training programme to grow sector capability Associate Minister of Housing (Maori Housing) Peeni Henare today attended the annual MAIHI Whare Wananga hosted by Toitu Tairawhiti Housing Limited in Kaiti.   “Our MAIHI Whare Wananga is an opportunity ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New mental health facility a step closer for Gisborne
    Health Minister Andrew Little was at Gisborne Hospital today to mark the next step of Te Tairāwhiti’s new Te Whare Awhiora mental health facility build. The Health Minister turned a sod to mark the start of groundworks at the site, in preparation for the placement of a mauri stone. “The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • More rural broadband for regional communities
      New contracts will improve around 30,000 broadband connections in rural homes and communities Govt on track to see 99.8% of all New Zealanders receive access to improved broadband as a result of various connectivity programmes by the end of 2023, including those targeting rural regions Applications open for one-off ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Tauranga region to benefit from new funding and financing tool
    Tauranga will be the first region to use a new Government tool to raise funding for much-needed infrastructure. A Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) will be used to raise finance from private markets, which is then repaid via the levy on those who benefit from the infrastructure. The finance raised by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New committee established to drive better public health outcomes
    Some of the country’s most difficult health issues will be tackled by a newly established public health advisory committee, whose members have now been appointed. Associate Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall says the new Public Health Advisory Committee will investigate and help address long-term health challenges facing Aotearoa. “We ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government and sector back innovative regional and wool projects
    $2.17 million for new food and fibre ventures in Taranaki $2.24m to develop high-value, sustainable cashmere industry $233,000 to prototype an acoustic, knitted textile product from strong wool for high-end commercial and residential interiors.  $530 million co-invested with business through the Sustainable Food and Fibre Futures fund  The Government closes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Statement on the death of Sir Murray Halberg
    New Zealand has lost one our true sporting icons with the passing of Sir Murray Halberg, Grant Robertson, Minister of Sport and Recreation said today. “Sir Murray was an extraordinary athlete. His gold medal in the 5000m at the Rome Olympic Games in 1960 has been immortalised as part of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Ministerial talks in Canberra to progress trans-Tasman relationship
    The importance of cooperation in the Pacific to support the region’s recovery and resilience will be a focus of formal talks in Canberra tomorrow between the Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta and her Australian counterpart Penny Wong. Nanaia Mahuta will meet Senator Wong for the second formal Foreign Ministers’ Consultations following ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Iwi and Government partnership delivers more rental homes for Pāpāmoa whānau
    Associate Minister of Housing (Māori Housing) Peeni Henare attended the official opening of 10 new rental homes built for working whānau of Ngā Pōtiki ā Tamapahore in Pāpāmoa today. “The Bay of Plenty region is one of many regions facing significant housing challenges and this Government is taking action by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government investment to support growth of Māori businesses and jobs in the primary sector
    Total exports by Māori businesses have grown by 38% since 2017 to $872 million, with the majority from the food and fibre sector Launch of Rautaki mo te Taurikura action plan to support the continued growth of Māori food and fibre sector Support for Māori agribusiness innovation and workforce development ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government to address child abuse system failings
    The Government is adopting the majority of recommendations from an independent review into the actions of government agencies leading up to the death of 5-year-old Malachi Subecz, Minister for Children Kelvin Davis announced today. Following Malachi’s murder at the hands of his caregiver in 2021, Dame Karen Poutasi was appointed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • More tools to help Police deal with fleeing drivers
    Increase the maximum driver licence disqualification period for a second offence of failing to stop or remain stopped, from 12 months to between 12 months and 24 months; Amend the Sentencing Act 2002 so that a vehicle can be forfeited on conviction for failing to stop. Offenders could have their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt books solid as global situation worsens
    The Crown accounts are in a solid position thanks to the Government’s careful financial management through a deteriorating global environment. For the four months to the end of October, the Operating Balance before Gains and Losses (OBEGAL) recorded a deficit of $2.8 billion, $274 million lower than forecast at Budget ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Expanded Dental Grants Available From Today
    ·       Increased Special Needs Grants for dental treatment are available to eligible New Zealanders available from today ·       New criteria means more Dental Treatment covered ·       People can now receive more than one grant in a year (any 52-week period), up to the maximum of $1,000 ·       Recent increases to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago