Nats’ unconstitutional looters’ bonus
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7:42 am, June 21st, 2012 - 101 comments
Categories: democracy under attack, privatisation -
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So, National expects 200,000 people to buy shares when it hocks off our assets. Call me simple but there’s 4.4 million of us, 3.3 million adults. Seems like nearly all of us won’t buy shares. But here’s the real rub: they’re talking about a bonus for the elite who can afford to buy shares and hold on to them. A gift from us to them. And National’s got no legal right to do it.
You might remember a joker called Charles I. Parliament pissed him off because it kept on criticising the fact that he was spending lots of taxpayer money on poorly run wars and whoring it up- and they refused to pass laws authorising his taxes and spending. So, he decided that he shouldn’t have to ask Parliament for the right to levy taxes and spend money. The Parliament rather thought he should. After a bit of to-ing and fro-ing, the issue was settled and Charles I ended up losing his head.
After that, things continued more or less in a settled manner for 350 years. The monarch and, later, their government could only raise money and spend money under the right of Act of Parliament. That’s why we have a budget each year.
The Constitution Act confirms this state of affairs:
22 Parliamentary control of public finance
It shall not be lawful for the Crown, except by or under an Act of Parliament,—
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(a) to levy a tax; or
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(b) to borrow money or to receive money borrowed from any person; or.
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(c) to spend any public money.
Great. So we’re all clear on that.
Except…
National’s got this plan to give New Zealanders who buy shares in the state assets a bonus share for every 15 they hold for two years (if they follow the Queensland model precisely). It’s what you might call a looters’ bonus for the 6% of New Zealanders that National expects to buy shares, paid for by the other 94% of us who end up owning less of these companies.
As Russel Norman points out, that’s spending of public money. It’s taking taxpayer wealth and giving it to someone else. Whenever the Government wants to do this, it has to get Parliament’s permission. That’s why Treaty settlements have to go through Parliament – because they involve the Crown spending in the form of unrequited gifts to iwi in the form of land and, often, shares.
So, where’s the legislation where the Government has asked for and received Parliament’s permission to spend taxpayer wealth by giving away shares? Well, it’s nowhere. It’s not in the Budget, and it’s not in the Mixed Ownership Model Bill. And, they don’t have time to put it in a future law because they will be incurring this expenditure, in terms of the way the government accounts for these things, in a couple of months when it sells the Mighty River shares with a promise of bonus shares to come if people hold on to them.
John Key seemed to have trouble understanding this. The Budget, he said, allows for asset sales. Well, yes, the Budget does say the Government will sell shares in assets for cash and use that to buy other capital . But there’s a fundamental difference between selling something for market price and giving it away – the latter is expenditure, the former isn’t.
There’s no mention of giving away shares to anyone in the Budget. The Government has not got Parliament’s permission to do it.
How has National fucked up such a basic thing? I mean, it’s not like they couldn’t have put this in the Budget or the asset sales legislation – they still would have passed. But, at the same time, this isimportant stuff: it is a pillar of our democracy that Parliament is sovereign and the Government can’t tax or spend without its permission.
The reason National hasn’t asked for Parliament’s permission is that it is so disorganised that, two months from the first sale, it still hasn’t decided what form the looters’ bonus will take. They’ve been planning this for years and they still haven’t got the most simple things sorted with only weeks to go.
National’s got itself in the position of trying to pull the same shit that got Charles I a date with the axe simply because the ministers are too lazy and half-cocked.
How’s this going to play out? I see another embarrassing back down in John Key’s future. The looters’ bonus is going to go the way of increased class sizes. And even that won’t save him from the chop in 2014.
101 comments on “Nats’ unconstitutional looters’ bonus ”
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Councils across the country have now decided where they stand regarding Māori wards, with a resounding majority in favour of keeping them in what is a significant setback for the Government. ...7 days ago
- Release: Government on the wrong side of Māori wards
The National-led government has been given a clear message from the local government sector, as almost all councils reject the Government’s bid to treat Māori wards different to other wards. ...1 week ago
- Release: Labour congratulates Kuīni Ngā Wai hono i te po Paki
The Labour Party congratulates Kuīni Ngā Wai hono i te po Paki on being crowned as the eighth Te Ariki Nui – head of Te Kiingitanga. ...1 week ago
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- Release: Rainbow youth neglected in mental health funding
Labour backs the call from The Rainbow Support Collective members for mental health funding specifically earmarked for grassroots and peer led community organisations to be set up in a way that they are able to access. ...1 week ago
- Release: Transport in NZ has to be more than just roads
As expected, the National Land Transport Programme lacks ambition for our cities and our country’s rail network and puts the majority of investment into roads. ...1 week ago
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Tēnā koutou katoa, Thank you for your warm welcome and for having my colleagues and I here today. Earlier you heard from the Labour Leader, Chris Hipkins, on our vision for the future of infrastructure. I want to build on his comments and provide further detail on some key elements ...1 week ago
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The Green Party says the Government’s new National Land Transport Programme marks another missed opportunity to take meaningful action to fight the climate crisis. ...2 weeks ago
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News that the annual number of building consents granted for new homes fell by more than 20 percent for the year ended July 2024, is bad news for the construction industry. ...2 weeks ago
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Papā te whatitiri, hikohiko te uira, i kanapu ki te rangi, i whētuki i raro rā, rū ana te whenua e. Uea te pou o tōku whare kia tū tangata he kapua whakairi nāku nā runga o Taupiri. Ko taku kiri ka tōkia ki te anu mātao. E te iwi ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Gaps still to be addressed in callouts response
The Government must guarantee New Zealanders will not be at risk after making changes to the way mental health callouts are handled. ...2 weeks ago
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Haere e te Kīngi o te kotahitangi Haere ki o nui, ki o rahi I te pō ...2 weeks ago
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The Green Party is paying tribute to the Māori King, Kiingi Tuuheitia Pootatau Te Wherowhero XVII, after he passed away earlier this morning. ...2 weeks ago
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Today’s Whakaata Māori announcement is yet another colossal failure from Minister Potaka, who has turned his back on te reo Māori, forcing a channel offline, putting whānau out of jobs, and cutting Māori content, says Te Pāti Māori. “A Senior Māori Minister has turned his back on Te Reo Māori. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: National restricts access to disability care homes
With disability communities still reeling from the diminishing of Whaikaha, a leaked document now reveals another blow with National restricting access to residential care homes. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Govt must help save 230 manufacturing jobs
Labour is calling on the Government and Mercury Energy to find a solution to the proposed Winstone Pulp mill closure and save 230 manufacturing jobs. ...2 weeks ago
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New Cabinet policy directives will ensure public agencies prioritise public services on the basis of need and award Government contracts on the basis of public value, Minister for the Public Service Nicola Willis says. “Cabinet Office has today issued a circular to central government organisations setting out the Government’s expectations ...6 hours ago - Minister to attend Police Ministers Council Meeting
Police Minister Mark Mitchell will join with Australian Police Ministers and Commissioners at the Police Ministers Council meeting (PMC) today in Melbourne. “The council is an opportunity to come together to discuss a range of issues, gain valuable insights on areas of common interest, and different approaches towards law enforcement ...8 hours ago
- New Bill to crack down on youth vaping
The coalition Government has introduced legislation to tackle youth vaping, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2) is aimed at preventing youth vaping. “While vaping has contributed to a significant fall in our smoking rates, the rise in youth vaping ...24 hours ago
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Regulation Minister David Seymour, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds, and Food Safety Minister Andrew Hoggard have welcomed interest in the agricultural and horticultural products regulatory review. The review by the Ministry for Regulation is looking at how to speed up the process to get farmers and growers access to the safe, ...1 day ago
- Bill to allow online charity lotteries passes first reading
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government is moving at pace to ensure lotteries for charitable purposes are allowed to operate online permanently. Charities fundraising online, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, Auckland Rescue Helicopter Trust and local hospices will continue to do ...1 day ago
- Tax exempt threshold changes to benefit startups
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- Targeted supports to accelerate reading
The coalition Government is delivering targeted and structured literacy supports to accelerate learning for struggling readers. From Term 1 2025, $33 million of funding for Reading Recovery and Early Literacy Support will be reprioritised to interventions which align with structured approaches to teaching. “Structured literacy will change the way children ...1 day ago
- Survivors invited to Abuse in Care national apology
With two months until the national apology to survivors of abuse in care, expressions of interest have opened for survivors wanting to attend. “The Prime Minister will deliver a national apology on Tuesday 12 November in Parliament. It will be a very significant day for survivors, their families, whānau and ...1 day ago
- Rangatahi inspire at Ngā Manu Kōrero final
Ehara taku toa i te toa takitahi, engari he toa takitini kē - My success is not mine alone but is the from the strength of the many. Aotearoa New Zealand’s top young speakers are an inspiration for all New Zealanders to learn more about the depth and beauty conveyed ...1 day ago
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Labour’s misinformation about firearms law is dangerous and disappointing, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee says. “Labour and Ginny Andersen have repeatedly said over the past few days that the previous Labour Government completely banned semi-automatic firearms in 2019 and that the Coalition Government is planning to ‘reintroduce’ them. ...2 days ago
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The Government is taking immediate action on a number of steps around New Zealand’s response to mpox, including improving access to vaccine availability so people who need it can do so more easily, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti and Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. “Mpox is obviously a ...2 days ago
- Next steps agreed for Treaty Principles Bill
Associate Justice Minister David Seymour says Cabinet has agreed to the next steps for the Treaty Principles Bill. “The Treaty Principles Bill provides an opportunity for Parliament, rather than the courts, to define the principles of the Treaty, including establishing that every person is equal before the law,” says Mr Seymour. “Parliament ...2 days ago
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Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins today announced a programme to drive Artificial Intelligence (AI) uptake among New Zealand businesses. “The AI Activator will unlock the potential of AI for New Zealand businesses through a range of support, including access to AI research experts, technical assistance, AI tools and resources, ...2 days ago
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The independent rapid review into the Wairoa flooding event on 26 June 2024 has been released, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced today. “We welcome the review’s findings and recommendations to strengthen Wairoa's resilience against future events,” Ms ...2 days ago
- Promoting faster payment times for government
The Government is sending a clear message to central government agencies that they must prioritise paying invoices in a timely manner, Small Business and Manufacturing Minister Andrew Bayly says. Data released today promotes transparency by publishing the payment times of each central government agency. This data will be published quarterly ...2 days ago
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E te māngai o te Whare Pāremata, kua riro māku te whakaputa i te waka ki waho moana. E te Pirimia tēnā koe.Mr Speaker, it is my privilege to take this adjournment kōrero forward. Prime Minister – thank you for your leadership. Taupiri te maunga Waikato te awa Te Wherowhero ...3 days ago
- Interim fix to GST adjustment rules to support businesses
Inland Revenue can begin processing GST returns for businesses affected by a historic legislative drafting error, Revenue Minister Simon Watts says. “Inland Revenue has become aware of a legislative drafting error in the GST adjustment rules after changes were made in 2023 which were meant to simplify the process. This ...3 days ago
- Strong uptake for cervical screening self-test
More than 80 per cent of New Zealand women being tested have opted for a world-leading self-test for cervical screening since it became available a year ago. Minister of Health Dr Shane Reti and Associate Minister Casey Costello, in her responsibility for Women’s Health, say it’s fantastic to have such ...3 days ago
- Ministry for Regulation’s first Strategic Intentions document sets ambitious direction
Regulation Minister David Seymour welcomes the Ministry for Regulation’s first Strategic Intentions document, which sets out how the Ministry will carry out its work and deliver on its purpose. “I have set up the Ministry for Regulation with three tasks. One, to cut existing red tape with sector reviews. Two, ...3 days ago
- Māori Education Advisory Group established
The Education Minister has established a Māori Education Ministerial Advisory Group made up of experienced practitioners to help improve outcomes for Māori learners. “This group will provide independent advice on all matters related to Māori education in both English medium and Māori medium settings. It will focus on the most impactful ways we can lift ...3 days ago
- Government welcomes findings of NZ Superannuation Fund review
The Government has welcomed the findings of the recent statutory review into the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation and the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, Minister of Finance Nicola Willis says. The 5-yearly review, conducted on behalf of Treasury and tabled in Parliament today, found the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation ...3 days ago
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Defence Minister Judith Collins today welcomed the first of five new C-130J-30 Hercules to arrive in New Zealand at a ceremony at the Royal New Zealand Air Force’s Base Auckland, Whenuapai. “This is an historic day for our New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) and our nation. The new Hercules fleet ...3 days ago
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- Action to grow the rural health workforce
Scholarships awarded to 27 health care students is another positive step forward to boost the future rural health workforce, Associate Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “All New Zealanders deserve timely access to quality health care and this Government is committed to improving health outcomes, particularly for the one in five ...4 days ago
- Pharmac delivering more for Kiwis following major funding boost
Associate Health Minister with responsibility for Pharmac David Seymour has welcomed the increased availability of medicines for Kiwis resulting from the Government’s increased investment in Pharmac. “Pharmac operates independently, but it must work within the budget constraints set by the Government,” says Mr Seymour. “When our Government assumed office, New ...4 days ago
- Sport Minister congratulates NZ’s Paralympians
Sport & Recreation Minister Chris Bishop has congratulated New Zealand's Paralympic Team at the conclusion of the Paralympic Games in Paris. “The NZ Paralympic Team's success in Paris included fantastic performances, personal best times, New Zealand records and Oceania records all being smashed - and of course, many Kiwis on ...4 days ago
- Government progresses response to Abuse in Care recommendations
A Crown Response Office is being established within the Public Service Commission to drive the Government’s response to the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care. “The creation of an Office within a central Government agency was a key recommendation by the Royal Commission’s final report. “It will have the mandate ...1 week ago
- Passport wait times back on-track
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says passport processing has returned to normal, and the Department of Internal Affairs [Department] is now advising customers to allow up to two weeks to receive their passport. “I am pleased that passport processing is back at target service levels and the Department ...1 week ago
- New appointments to the FMA board
Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister has today announced three new appointments and one reappointment to the Financial Markets Authority (FMA) board. Tracey Berry, Nicholas Hegan and Mariette van Ryn have been appointed for a five-year term ending in August 2029, while Chris Swasbrook, who has served as a board member ...1 week ago
- District Court judges appointed
Attorney-General Hon Judith Collins today announced the appointment of two new District Court judges. The appointees, who will take up their roles at the Manukau Court and the Auckland Court in the Accident Compensation Appeal Jurisdiction, are: Jacqui Clark Judge Clark was admitted to the bar in 1988 after graduating ...1 week ago
- Government makes it faster and easier to invest in New Zealand
Associate Minister of Finance David Seymour is encouraged by significant improvements to overseas investment decision timeframes, and the enhanced interest from investors as the Government continues to reform overseas investment. “There were about as many foreign direct investment applications in July and August as there was across the six months ...1 week ago
- New Zealand to join Operation Olympic Defender
New Zealand has accepted an invitation to join US-led multi-national space initiative Operation Olympic Defender, Defence Minister Judith Collins announced today. Operation Olympic Defender is designed to coordinate the space capabilities of member nations, enhance the resilience of space-based systems, deter hostile actions in space and reduce the spread of ...1 week ago
- Government commits to ‘stamping out’ foot and mouth disease
Biosecurity Minister Andrew Hoggard says that a new economic impact analysis report reinforces this government’s commitment to ‘stamp out’ any New Zealand foot and mouth disease incursion. “The new analysis, produced by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research, shows an incursion of the disease in New Zealand would have ...1 week ago
- Improving access to finance for Kiwis
5 September 2024 The Government is progressing further reforms to financial services to make it easier for Kiwis to access finance when they need it, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Financial services are foundational for economic success and are woven throughout our lives. Without access to finance our ...1 week ago
- Prime Minister pays tribute to Kiingi Tuheitia
As Kiingi Tuheitia Pootatau Te Wherowhero VII is laid to rest today, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has paid tribute to a leader whose commitment to Kotahitanga will have a lasting impact on our country. “Kiingi Tuheitia was a humble leader who served his people with wisdom, mana and an unwavering ...1 week ago
- Resource Management reform to make forestry rules clearer
Forestry Minister Todd McClay today announced proposals to reform the resource management system that will provide greater certainty for the forestry sector and help them meet environmental obligations. “The Government has committed to restoring confidence and certainty across the sector by removing unworkable regulatory burden created by the previous ...1 week ago
- More choice and competition in building products
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- Joint Statement between the Republic of Korea and New Zealand 4 September 2024, Seoul
On the occasion of the official visit by the Right Honourable Prime Minister Christopher Luxon of New Zealand to the Republic of Korea from 4 to 5 September 2024, a summit meeting was held between His Excellency President Yoon Suk Yeol of the Republic of Korea (hereinafter referred to as ...1 week ago
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The Government has taken a decision based on ideology which fundamentally impacts Māori without consulting Māori. There’s a clear pattern here of a government again setting out to divide New Zealand. No-one voted for that. ...2 hours ago - Crown knew it legally had to pay midwives better, court hears
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Changes to customary marine title showed a blind adherence to pre-existing political commitments at the expense of Māori, the Waitangi Tribunal has found. ...5 hours ago
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Targeting services to Māori and Pasifika is not a racist agenda, it is simply acknowledging that there are communities that do not access the appropriate primary health services they need when they need them. ...5 hours ago
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Northlanders are being asked to identify potential uses for their share of the $1.2 billion Regional Infrastructure Fund. ...11 hours ago
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A yet-to-be published study also found achievement improved at some schools participating in the Ka Ora, Ka Ako scheme. ...11 hours ago
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- Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 13 September
Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A,DIV,A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp');Got a good quiz question? Send Newsroom your questions.The post Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 13 September appeared first on Newsroom. ...12 hours ago
- Daily crossword, Friday 13 September
The post Daily crossword, Friday 13 September appeared first on Newsroom. ...12 hours ago
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It seems like Key will back down on just about everything else… class sizes etc, and possibly even not doing anything about super, but asset sales is most like Key’s only raison d’etre, and, consequently, he’ll do anything he can, no matter how undemocratic or unfair, in order to sell of the country and decent living for future generations.
Where’s the Queen of Hearts when you need her?!
Can they push this through under urgency?
Can’t see why they couldn’t, for all the bluster in this post.
Nor why this should need to be done before the first sale. The government is allowed to make any retroactive laws it wants, so even if the accounting for this would end up being ‘retroactive’ there’s nothing stopping them from doing it.
National rushes through retrospective law gifting hundreds of millions of dollars of shares to people who already have enough money to buy shares.
Yeah, that’s a political winner, eh?
Doesn’t need to be a political winner. This is the “second term” that the Nats were saving all the unpopular stuff for.
These are the “ambushes for NZ”, Deano.
English knows he’s not coming back, he as much as admits it with his taunts to the opposition over buying back our assets. Key is having the shittest year of his life and can’t wait to get out as soon as the job’s done.
Half the Nat MPs are just waking up and smelling the coffee now. They actually drank the kool-aid over the “brighter future” and really did worship at the 50 million dollar altar of their money-trading god. They’re dupes and rubes and they’re only just figuring out they’ve been had in the worst way, that they’ve been fooled into selling someone else’s lie and believed it themselves.
But the ones with their hands on the tiller are the ones to watch, and they don’t give a fuck. It’s grab what you can and get out.
Funny you should mention ‘smelling the coffee’, Felix. That was the name of the report the UK Tories used when they decided to reform and rebrand under David Cameron a few years ago.
Ironically, the champion of that rejuvenation, Lord Ashcroft, has now put the boot into Cameron, noting that the public have a negative impression of his apparent “smugness, arrogance or ruthlessness”. He goes on to warn that the Tories risk defeat at the next election if they try and portray Labour leader Ed Milliband in a negative light, because voters see that as reflecting a lack of substance in the party poking the borax. NZ Labour appear to have finally learnt that lesson a couple of elections too late.
All Ashcroft’s comments could equally apply to Key and National, particularly this one:
“A view is gaining ground that the government lacks direction, with the number of U-turns – each trivial in itself – suggesting policies are not properly thought through…The party badly needs a sense of direction.”
It’s worth having a re-read of The Hollow Men, and the things they wanted to do in a Don Brash second term.
It’s looking awfully familiar…
So it should. It’s not like they ever abandoned the plan when they changed the face.
“So it should. It’s not like they ever abandoned the plan when they changed the face.”
True, John Key came to the centre in 2008 with one thing on his mind. Same as Clark did in 1999…they take the middle vote and then they move out to their respective sides. Same process is happening now with Shearer as he tries to seduce the middle, when he gets in he will drift to the left…and then…etc, etc, blah blah blah.
As sad as these asset sales are, I’m more concerned over the way history is repeating itself. Why we would want to repeat our failures is beyond me
Clark’s government never moved from the middle, except where other parties dragged them.
It’s probably not a good look. But there’s nothing stopping them from doing it.
Parliament is sovereign and cannot be constrained; it cannot even pass laws that constrain it’s own powers, eg to ‘entrench’ a piece of legislation requires a separate law to be passed, and that law itself could be repealed with a simple majority.
There’s a way to fix that. Make the entrenchment law require a referendum with 75% or better to remove and removal without a referendum is treason with an automatic 20 year sentence for everyone in parliament who votes to remove it and nationalisation of everything they own.
The government can get away with shit like this because they’re not held to account at all and as long as that’s true then we live in a dictatorship and not democracy.
So they just repeal the treason law, then the referendum, than change the law they wanted to change.
I suppose you might be able to do a Dr Who vs the Angels solution and have two laws, each immediately dissolving parliament and going to a general election if a bill altering the other reaches its third reading without being endorsed by a 2/3 or 3/4 majority in a referendum within the previous 2 years. And tacks the bill to a binding referendum at the same time as the general election.
Which would get them 20 years jail and lose them everything they have. The idea is to write the law in such a way that they can’t touch without the referendum and if they try it’s straight to jail.
Parliament can’t do that.
Parliament cannot legislate to constrain it’s own power.
The only way parliament can be constrained is if it were dissolved, we had a constitutional convention that created a new (written) constitution under which all future parliaments would operate.
Sure it can. That’s what the electoral act, and a bunch of other laws do.
There’s nothing stopping parliament from repealing that legislation.
Oh, I’m pretty sure we could find away.
Like I said, a constitutional convention is required.
When there’s money to be made then Key cares and won’t back down.
Don’t forget the knighthood…he wants to feel loved and important too!
Where are the shares going to come from?
They have sold 49% Thus any more shares’given’ will push the shares owned to over 49%
OR
If they could also issue the bonus to all share holder ( Govt as well) to retain the 51/49 spilt
But all that does is dilute the share value, and that is not really a bonus.
as an aside I suspect the Might River sale will be the only sale.
What would happen is whenever anyone buys some shares the Govt will put the bonus shares in reserve (i.e. you buy 15 shares they will put 1 share in reserve that won’t be sold). Then if the person holds onto the shares they will be issued with that share. If the investor proves not to be eligible for the share the share in reserve will then be sold at the end of the year.
Basically in the first lot of sales the govt will sell 46% of the shares and the remaining 3% will be sold or issued at the end of the period.
OK that would work.
be interesting to see if that happens.
they’re going to have to allow a buffer against future capital floats too – unless they expect future governments to chip in 51% whenever a company wants to raise some capital.
They will simply sell off assets like dams and other generating stations. Then the companies can become shell companies with sub-contracted privately-owned generating stations supplying them with electricity to on-sell to their customers. Any power price increases can be blamed on the sub-contactor power stations and as they sit at one remove from the retailer there is little that the consumer can do to punish the bad seller… Well if I was an evil capitalist that is what I would do…
Shane
You forget that the Government, whoever they are has 51% of the shares and can determine what these companies actually do.
In case you don’t remember 51% is greater than 49%.
Fortran, you forget that minority shareholders have rights and can and do influence the direction of companies. The companies cannot legally act in a way that disadvantages shareholders, large or small. So it is reasonably easy for smaller shareholders to group together to get control of a company, even if they still only have a minority shareholding. For example, Gina Rinehart, the Aussie mining magnate, has just taken effective control of the Fairfax media group with less than 20% of the shares.
How has she achieved this then?
By being smart, ambitious and having the right allies to co-ordinate on crucial votes which matter.
“By being smart, ambitious and having the right allies to co-ordinate on crucial votes which matter.”
I prefer
– by being cunning, duplicitous and amoral – oh, and rich.
but that’s just me, I guess. Obviously she paid attention in the family business meetings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Rinehart
“Can” does not mean “will” and the fact that National tried to sneak through a way to lessen the government’s shareholding to less than 51% through the non-voting shares loophole (at least Dunne stopped that) means that they would happily do this… the problem is that it is do-able and therefore will probably be done.
yeah except National will gift the majority of Board seats to private investment firms, and promise that the Government’s own Board members will stay out of the way of corporate interests.
Pretty obvious now why Key is so keen on the pokies. It’s like he’s back at Merrill. Fun times. Even with the power to make laws, it’s still not edgy enough. The adrenaline only flows when you push beyond the limit. Constitutional niceties are just red tape to be slashed in his world. Besides, he has a mandate, right?
“How has National fucked up such a basic thing?”
It’s hard to imagine an evil cabal could be so fundamentally incompetent.
On the other hand recent research demonstrates that low intelligence is a gateway to right-wing politics. Perhaps they just don’t get it.
How did Queensland manage to get this passed then?
Why don’t you Google it and let us know?
Simple. They passed a law saying they could.
There’s nothing fundamentally illegal about gifting our shares to the elite. they just have to have a law saying it’s OK.
Apparently it is unlawful though. Well according to James Henderson it is.
Are you actually this dumb or faking it?
What is unlawful is gifting public property without Parliamentary authorisation.
Queensland got Parliamentary authorisation for gifting the bonus shares.
National has not.
Yes, he really is that dumb…….who else would pick a handle that reminds people of condoms?
I really don’t understand this supposed condom link you keep bringing up.
You haven’t heard of Gossamer? That’s ok, he probably hasn’t either.
Gossamer’s an apt nickname – light and insubstantial – I didn’t get the condom reference.
A word of caution for you felix. Your screen name is linked with a far more ‘interesting’ sex related product than the rather far fetched linkage that is being attempted with my one. You might want to do a Google search on Flexi Felix ;-). I personally think this is far more apt than a mere condom.
I dont know how queensland did this.
she never told me.
you are telling the story so youtell us how queensland did this.
Who are you attempting to communicate with here?
OK – so capn hook isnt using the reply button (which they should) – but you know they are repling to you
can we not have a repeat of yesterday where the comments were filled with you making a really idiotic point for the sake of it?
Haha who are you communicating with?
Exactly.
the human condom strikes again!……
The reason its not in the current legislation is because they never intended the bonus. But as public opinion becomes more obvious they needed a mum and dad sweetener…
Bribing the rich to buy stolen goods.
It may not ever get into the asset sales legislation either, Slippery the Prime Minister in the best traditions of a cheap trader desperate to flog off goods He got on tick is trying to generate interest in the sale of the assets among the real Ma’s and Pa’s of the New Zealand heartland,
As it now stands its the wealthiest 8-10% of the New Zealand population plus the various superannuation funds that are showing the interest in buying the stuff,
There is apparently in the asset sales legislation a clause which forbids Minister’s, MP’s and their staff from purchasing shares in the stolen assets,
I wonder if such a clause also clearly forbids the ‘blind trusts’ and ‘managed funds’ so favored by the likes of our Prime Minister from indulging in the purchase of tranches of the shares being sold…
I think criticism is premature, there is no firm idea of if or how this would be done yet. There’s possibly some merit to loyalty shares but I think the market may be best to be left to work without this sort of distortion.
If New Zealanders choose to buy and then sell shares speculatively, either quickly or as soon as the loyalty term expires, and if non-New Zealanders choose to buy, then so be it.
But ACC, the Cullen fund, Kiwisaver funds and NZ owned institutional investors are more likely to buy and hold as a proper investment, so there’s a good chance much of the ownership will remain here medium term. I don’t see the foerign ownership sky falling, much.
Here we go again…..I suppose someone had to put forward a truly mealy mouthed defence of this rather obvious example of traditional national party incompetence, and arrogance….
Shame it had to come from someone who is a part of that three ring circus….albeit as one of the midget clowns, but a part nonetheless….
And yes, i know lanth has tried twice to support this untenable position, but your defensive posture is more amusing to lampoon….
Sorry, what? Where have I supported asset sales? Links please.
Pete. For God’s sake. In two months, National will be selling $1.8 billion worth of shares. How can it be too early to be asking where the power to give away free bonus shares comes from?
I don’t think they would be free. The Crown would sell less shares initially and hold the “loyalty” block of shares until the expiry date, then issue those shares that were due. They may have some loyalty shares left over from those who sold early, so the Crown would have a larger shareholding, or could then sell those shares (up to 49% total).
If I bought 1500 shares knowing if I kept them for say three years I’d get another 100 shares I’d judge the price of the shares accordingly ie based on ending up with 1600.
The power companies are unlikely to be growth orientated companies, so apart from a few short term speculators most are likely to buy for earnings (dividends) over a medium or long term.
“I don’t think they would be free.”
Of course not Pete, we’ll be paying for them.
They will, however, be given away free of charge. Which is the only thing Deano could possibly have meant.
Bit of honesty please.
No, use a bit of common sense. If the market values the total number of shares at $1b regardless of how the shares are packaged than that’s what the Crown will get.
The only way the Crown will be worse off is if the market values x number of ordinary shares more than x number of ordinary shares plus y number of loyalty shares.
And the Crown could be better off if the market values the ordinary+loyalty package more, or if the difference is covered by the number of loyalty shares not issued.
Ah, so {(x now) + (y later)} is worth as much as {(x+y) now}.
Good to see the govt has their best man on the job.
You would be paying for 15 shares plus a promise of another gift share in two years time if you keep the 15.
Yes, the promise would be worth something to you, so you might be willing to pay more than jsut for 15 shares – although, and this is really important, you won’t be determining how much you pay for the shares, the government will set the initial share price.
Whether you get the gift share might be dependent on what you do with your other shares but it is not part of the purchase of those shares (think about it, you wouldn’t get money back for the loss of the gift share if you sel your other shares and don’t get to take up the gift share).
But this isn’t about you. this is about the right of the Government to make that gift, and to contract to make that gift.
That share is a gift. Which makes it government spending.
And the government has to get the Parliament’s permission to spend money. It has not done so.
It isn’t a gift, it isn’t free, it would be a part of a share package that any market valuation would take into account.
Pete,
1) The day after the ‘loyalty bonus’ shares are handed out, what do you think will happen to the share price?
2) And what will happen to the total value of the shares someone owns?
1) The share price may adjust a bit but it’s likely the market will already have taken it into account to an extent as it was anticipated.
2) They will reflect what the market thinks they are worth at that point in time. That could be more or less or the same as when the original shares were issued (but that’s no longer relevant).
Shareholders will hope their investment has appreciated a bit in value but most are likely to be more interested in the dividend yield and longer term prospects.
Pete, if the share price reflects the fact that there will be bonus shares coming, if it is factored into the share price, as you maintain, then the value of a block of shares shouldn’t change when the bonus shares are added to the block., and the share price should drop for each individual share.
That’s, as you would have it, ‘common sense’.
Surely?
It is a gift because the Government is only getting the money for the 15 shares. When it gives the bonus share away later, it gets no money for that. So, it’s a gift.
If loyalty shares are to be part of the asset sales process then that should have been included in the issues on which the select committee heard submissions. At the very least such a scheme requires additional costs to administer, even if the effect on sale proceeds is not significantly affected.
National should invite further submissions and re-open the select committee to consider them.
Pete George makes a valid point in stating that institutional investors such as Kiwisaver Fund Managers, the Cullen Fund, ACC, and other S.O.E.’s would stand to benefit considerably with the issue of loyalty shares because those organisations would be taking a long term view with their investments and would no doubt qualify for loyalty shares if they are issued.
In consideration of that the loyalty shares argument is a non event, speculators won’t qualify and the take up by institutional investors would provide an element of protection to other long term investors in the marketplace.
And so why are rich private individuals being given this same share bonus out of our collective national wealth?
Pete – a question for you.
How do you feel having your name linked to asset sales that are not supported by the public, and which is shredding John Key’s political image, even as we debate this?
How do you feel about having your name associated with asset sales – as Max Bradford was in 1999, when he promised us “cheaper power”?
The funny thing is, you may feel that you have a mandate and that mandate is on your side… but you’re dreaming if you truly believe that. The truth is that the public loathe this programme; understand that it is a rort; and will exact their vengeance at the ballot box. (Translation; your boss can kiss his electorate goodbye in 2014 – if not earlier.)
And the campaign against asset sales continues to grow; http://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/campaign-flood-the-beehive/
Premature? Do you mean no one should challenge or question, just wait til irs rolled out and then when its too late wring our hands?
Do you accept that a loyalty bonus means taxpers have to pay more in one or two years to a specific part of the population who had a spare $1000 to buy shares during high unemployment and a recession?
By all means chalenge and question, I didn’t say you shouldn’t, I was just adding my opinion.
I presume the loyalty shares would reduce the number of shares that could be sold as the loyalty shares were put aside until they were due to be issued. It wouldn’t cost taxpayers more – in fact taxpayers could gain from it as shares sold before the loyalty expiry would be retained by the Crown or sold for more money.
And on the issue of loyalty shares…
If National has a mandate to sell these SOEs…
If everyone adores Dear Leader…
And if the public is “warming” to asset sales (as JK has claimed)…
Why is there a need for LOYALTY shares?! Why the need for a blatant bribe?
Any ideas?
No idea why they have brought this up. Seems odd timing to me.
Pg dont you think they have left it a bit late to allegedly start thinking about a loyalty payout, and that conveniently they xant give us any details?
Yes. That makes me wonder how seriously they are considering it.
This is the same attack Pete George often makes on anyone questioning the govt. It essentially says ‘there’s no validity in protesting something that hasn’t actually happened yet’.
The other old chestnut goes along the lines of ‘there’s no use in protesting something that’s already done and dusted’.
This is the reality of what Pete used to refer to as his “new way of doing politics” with more democracy, more involvement and more transparency.
What or who have I attacked?
You seem to be attacking me for expressing my opinion, doing what you accuse me of doing.
And that’s exactly how you usually frame your attacks. Pissing on my feet and telling me it’s raining.
I think here you pissed on your own feet and blamed it on me.
Sure Pete.
Are you pressuring Peter Dunne to support any of the proposed amendments to fix the multiple loopholes in the asset sales legislation?
Or are you just coming here and saying ‘shhhhhh’?
Make a case. There have been a heap of amendments and I haven’t read many of them. It’s hard to differentiate the loophole busters from the loopy.
Give us an example of a loopy one. Since you’ve read some (there are only 30-odd and they’re all really short, btw)
There was a big pile of very loopy ones that Mallard tried to get included at 7.33pm on Tuesday night but the chairman rejected them as frivolous – they could be called loopy.
I can’t remember them all, but at a glance SOPs 37, 39, 44, 51, 53, 61, 69, 71 look like they have varying degrees of loopiness.
you mean the ones that would ban foreign ownership, stop sales until after the referendum, stop the removal of the companies from the coverage of the Ombudsmen and Official Information Acts (something the Ombudsmen called for) ….?
Yeah stop sales until after a referendum that hasn’t yet received enough support to mean it will be held. That is pretty loopy.
Gosman, the government can call for a referendum at any time. They could put in an amendment that creates a binding referendum if they wanted.
70% of the publuic oppose asset sales…
Labour, Greens, NZ First, and Mana are campaigning on behalf of said public…
Calling the amendments “loopy” suggests you view public opposition as “loopy”?!
Would that be a correct perception, Pete?
No, not at all, I didn’t say anything about perceptions of the public, I was talking about some of the SOPs – as you know.
Some of thoseopposing certainly have some loopy arguments and tactics – and worse – but my perception is that there are also many who people oppose for genuine reasons, some of them with a lot of feeling.
I don’t know how you can claim who certain parties are campaigning on behalf of, except for their own self interest. There will be many variations in views and allegiances of those who oppose and those who are not sure.
“I don’t know how you can claim who certain parties are campaigning on behalf of, except for their own self interest.”
‘Self interest’?!
Shonkey isn’t worried about the chop in 2014 because he will have further successfully wrecked the Commonwealth of New Zealand which Commonwealth He and his RWNJ NeoLiberal crazies detest heartily. The whole bunch of ’em need to be processed through a metaphorical guillotine, (Not a real one!) until the selfish b*stards no longer bother us with their stupid BS. Otherwise we will end up like France prior to the revolution ,if we haven’t already, the economy dominated by the rich and the rest of us wage slaves with our social contract being relentlessly whittled away piece by piece. Poverty will become further entrenched and our former egalitarian society a distant myth only remembered by those over 75.
Privatisation of Public wealth is anti-democratic it transfers power from the people to those who have the money and ends in the marriage of money power with government which is Fascism. Shonkey already symbolises this: He represents money and seeks to increase the power of the monied classes against the plebs.
The worldwide financial fiat system is collapsing under the weight of its own greed and stupidity and this devaluing paper is looking for real assets with real income to protect its power at the expense of the people. As to Charles the 1st: despite the majority of New Zealanders clearly against Asset Sales, Shonkey behaves as if he has a divine right to flog of his people’s wealth (He is supposed to represent all of us technically in his role as PM not just his rich mates) for the gain of his own class.
So virtually everyone with a Kiwisaver account will get access to bonus share revenue since virtually all the providers have indicated they will seek shares. That sounds like a vote winner.
I wonder how many posters on here will change their Kiwisaver provider if the provider takes up mixed ownership model shares. That would truly test whether this is a principled position or just what it appears to be….
Since the Superannuation fund will also be buying shares in the mixed ownership model will the same posters call out for a personal lower pension. You know the answer.
No, because looters’ bonuses are only for retail investors.
Your Kiwisaver owns units in a fund, which owns a variety of financial assets. You don’t actually own the shares yourself.
Amazingly enough, I already get a return on them because I already own them along with everybody else.
Time to start a little Beehive-flooding campaign… http://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/campaign-flood-the-beehive/
I’ve noticed bloggers venting about Chris Trotter. He was on with Jim Mora tonight strongly attacking the idea that just voting for a party isn’t enough to give it a mandate for anything it has listed on its agenda.
Strange. I thought the closeness of the two parties with their outriders, plus the importance to the country, the people and economy, and the wicked secrecy of these ‘democratic’ nations deciding on this would have brought an opposite response. Someone said that an election was as good as a referendum, and it may have been him.
Of course that is utter tosh. Focussing on one thing and asking the voters for a decision, hopefully after they have read at least the summary of the proposal, is a lot different than a ‘pocketful of mumbles, such are promises’ made before an election and when there is an uncertain future. And sometimes people just vote for a different party in frustration and disappointment with the incumbent one. And sometimes they fall for a breezy personality,, so relaxed, and a nice smile and a whiff of financial success, such a heady perfume. Only sometimes you get a pig in a poke.
I was driving. I heard the bit where Trotter showed himself trying to make the MMP system relevant to 18yrs+ uni students, by talking about a Christian Bieber Party as a hypothetical….. in touch, very.
How many NZer’s bought Spring Creek Mine shares when Labour sold 49% of it in 2007? Did they have a mandate to sell 49% of a state asset? Did they inform the public prior to selling 49%? If it was such a great idea in their last term in office, why is it a bad idea now?
Answers: None, Yes, No, it’s not.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1206/S00283/remember-when-part-three.htm
It was a bad idea then, it was a bad idea in the 1980s and it’s a bad idea now. In fact, it’s been a bad idea for 5000 years.
Breaking up the commons and giving it into private ownership is a bad idea. Simple as that. Labour have learned this, NACT haven’t but, then, they won’t as they’re the ones who will benefit from it while everyone else suffers through more poverty and deprivation.