Nearly half of voters think Nats have secret agenda

Written By: - Date published: 4:53 pm, August 26th, 2008 - 20 comments
Categories: youtube - Tags: , , ,

Here’s TV3’s coverage from last night. They’ve just completed a poll in which 45.7% of those surveyed think National has a secret agenda.

20 comments on “Nearly half of voters think Nats have secret agenda”

  1. vto 1

    Nearly all of voters will scream to the high heavens when the ETS burden smacks them heavily in the head.

  2. Anita 2

    I have wondered for a while whether National’s constant message about Labour social engineering agenda (blah blah homosexuality blah smacking blah schools blah hugs blah blah) was actually a deliberate inoculation strategy to blunt accusations that National has a secret agenda.

    It makes people cynical and disengaged, it means they’re unsurprised that National has dark secrets, it means they’ll vote for them anyway.

    Whatcha think?

  3. higherstandard 3

    But VTO the world will be saved I tell you saved !!

    My prediction is that in 20 years we’ll look back at a bigger scam than Y2K.

  4. Phil 4

    “It makes people cynical and disengaged, it means they’re unsurprised that National has dark secrets, it means they’ll vote for them anyway.”

    That was modus operandi for most voters loooong before C/T waded in.

    Michael Laws, in ‘The Demon Profession’ referred to MMP as the final opportunity our parliamentarians would ever get to bring back some dignity and respect to the occupation. I’d say 12 years on it’s fairly clear they’ve failed miserably.

  5. randal 5

    just listening to Maurice Williamson on rnz. he wont explain his statement. so it looks like the y have no agenda whatsoever. 2008 the ‘a4’ election

  6. Anita 6

    Phil,

    Was is a deliberate political tactic? I like to imagine things were once better than this 🙁

  7. Ari 7

    Michael Laws, in ‘The Demon Profession’ referred to MMP as the final opportunity our parliamentarians would ever get to bring back some dignity and respect to the occupation. I’d say 12 years on it’s fairly clear they’ve failed miserably.

    MMP has made some difference, but it’s a matter of aggressively supporting politicians who deserve dignity and respect and aggressively attacking those who don’t.

    Ultimately no matter how good a voting system is, it still succeeds or fails based on how people use it. A better system can make some real gains if it’s used with a decent amount of competency, but nothing’s a magic bullet on its own.

    The fact remains that MMP has proved much more representative of New Zealand than FPP did.

  8. Dean 8

    “Was is a deliberate political tactic? I like to imagine things were once better than this”

    Was Labour not campaigning on s59 reforms, civil unions and abolishment of referring legal matters to the privvy council a deliberate political tactic?

    Don’t misunderstand me, I actually have no problem with the first two and don’t care that Labour didn’t campaign on them. But it does beg the question, doesn’t it?

    It’s no good for people to whinge about National having a secret agenda when everyone on their preferred side of the political spectrum is just as guilty – with history and proof – of being exactly the same.

  9. Dean 9

    Ari:

    “The fact remains that MMP has proved much more representative of New Zealand than FPP did.”

    How many New Zealanders actually want the Greens or NZ First being the kingmakers?

    Sorry, your assertion fails. The devil is always in the details.

  10. Anita 10

    Dean,

    Was Labour not campaigning on s59 reforms, civil unions and abolishment of referring legal matters to the privvy council a deliberate political tactic?

    Labour included the abolition of appeal to the Privy Council in their 2002 pledge card, won the 2002 election and passed the law in 2003. I’m not sure why this myth hangs around so thoroughly as it’s so demonstrably wrong.

    The repeal of section 59 has long been a Green policy, and it was a Green Bill, it was drawn from the ballot and the debate began before the 2005 election, it was passed after the 2005 election. The bill was eventually supported by both Labour and National. Who do you believe should have campaigned on what and when?

    Civil Unions was a conscience vote for most (all?) parties including both Labour and National. I don’t see how a party can campaign on something which will be a conscience vote.

  11. Dean 11

    Anita:

    “Labour included the abolition of appeal to the Privy Council in their 2002 pledge card, won the 2002 election and passed the law in 2003. I’m not sure why this myth hangs around so thoroughly as it’s so demonstrably wrong.”

    Believe it or not, I’m having trouble finding the contents of the 2005 pledge card online so I’ll take your word for it and stand corrected.

    It’s a pity Labour had to pass retrospective law to validate their spending on this though, isn’t it? Would you call it “courageous corruption”?

    “The repeal of section 59 has long been a Green policy, and it was a Green Bill, it was drawn from the ballot and the debate began before the 2005 election, it was passed after the 2005 election. The bill was eventually supported by both Labour and National. Who do you believe should have campaigned on what and when?”

    Sorry, Anita, but Clark herself when questioned on this before the election said that she thought it’d be trying to defy human nature.

    Flip flop, secret hidden agenda, Slippery Clark – no amount of spin from you or anyone else will ever hide this. She lied to the people of New Zealand. If she really thought it would defy human nature then she would have voted against it. She didn’t – therefore, shes a liar. Once again.

    “Civil Unions was a conscience vote for most (all?) parties including both Labour and National. I don’t see how a party can campaign on something which will be a conscience vote.”

    I’m sure you don’t.

    How about we make everything a conscience vote? Why wasn’t the ETS made a conscience vote? The answer is that Labour are determined to rort the system, and people like you continue to defend it.

  12. Anita 12

    Dean,

    Creation of Supreme Court

    2002 pledge card (2002 pledge card, 2002 election, 2003 passed legislation) not 2005. Actually, I shall correct myself, it was in their manifesto, not sure about their pledge card. Sorry, I’ve retyped this so many times it’s got a bit fuzzy 🙂 I think I usually cite the republicans.

    Section 59 repeal

    Labour voted for the first reading before the 2005 election. I have no idea whether they campaigned on it or not.

    Given that both National and Labour voted for the Bill, does it bother you that neither campaigned on it? Or only that Labour didn’t.

    Conscience Votes

    Anita: I don’t see how a party can campaign on something which will be a conscience vote.

    HS:I’m sure you don’t.

    How can a party campaign on something which is explicitly not party policy? That is the point of something being a conscience vote.

    Last year a number of National MPs supported an attempt to make abortion harder to access, and a number voted against it. Do you think that means National should have campaigned on an anti-abortion platform? Or a pro-abortion one? Or what?

    Blurring the edges

    The answer is that Labour are determined to rort the system, and people like you continue to defend it.

    Do I? I’m pretty sure I was pointing out that you were factually inaccurate, your logic was inconsistent and you weren’t crediting the Greens with their win on the section 59 repeal.

    I think you’ll find me criticising Labour’s approach to climate change one thread over 🙂 As I said in another thread today; why do all of us on the left get lumped together?

  13. Anita 13

    Dean, sorry I srcewed up your name. Tired brain and fingers today.

  14. Dean 14

    Anita,

    “Given that both National and Labour voted for the Bill, does it bother you that neither campaigned on it? Or only that Labour didn’t.”

    National has nothing to do with it. They’ve been swallowing dead rats aplenty in the last few months, but it’s a pity that you don’t see the correlation between National and Labour.

    Labour have swallowed just as many; they’ve just been far more astute at it. And do you remember Key saying anything along the lines that a reform to s59 would be like trying to defy human nature?

    Let’s face it: on this subject, Clark and Labour are just plain liars. There are many other examples of National being the same, but this one is Clarks and Clarks only.

    “How can a party campaign on something which is explicitly not party policy? That is the point of something being a conscience vote.”

    Clark and Labour have NEVER whipped their MPs to vote in a conscience vote along party lines?

    You must be joking.

    “Do I? I’m pretty sure I was pointing out that you were factually inaccurate, your logic was inconsistent and you weren’t crediting the Greens with their win on the section 59 repeal.”

    The Greens didn’t “win” anything. They were needed to make up the numbers.

    “I think you’ll find me criticising Labour’s approach to climate change one thread over As I said in another thread today; why do all of us on the left get lumped together?”

    Because they all gloss over the indefensible, just as the right do. In your case, you completely ignored the restrospective validation point I raised. You can pretend you didn’t see it, or that it’s been gove over many times before to your satisfaction, but ultimately it’s just that whole “courageous corruption” deal that you on the left don’t want to face. Because you need Labour and Labour needs you.

    Face of modern politics? Reality of an MMP environemnt? In my opinion it’s utterly pathetic.

  15. r0b 15

    Because they all gloss over the indefensible, just as the right do. In your case, you completely ignored the restrospective validation point I raised.

    What’s your problem with the retrospective validation Dean? Why do you think it was a bad thing? Do you actually understand the legal situation at all?

  16. Dean 16

    “What’s your problem with the retrospective validation Dean? Why do you think it was a bad thing? Do you actually understand the legal situation at all?”

    I expect you’re going to pull out the whole “but everyone else did it” argument here. In fact, I bet you’re going to pass it off as being just by the by and quite mundane.

    Which of course it might be if you don’t count the things Labour said about the auditor general prior to doing so.

    Or the scale and purpose.

    rOb, I’ve come to expect that you’ll defend Labour under any circumstances whatsoever anytime, because you see them as the greater good. This example is no exception.

    We both know that if it had been the baby eating National party doing the same thing you’d be calling for their immediate resignation. Let’s not pretend here. You’re as partisan as Pinochet on this blog, and you know it.

    Can you please move along while those with any kind of impartiality may or may not choose to debate the subject? Cheers.

  17. r0b 17

    Does that mean you can’t answer my questions Dean? Didn’t think so. but don’t let your ignorance get in the way of a good rant.

  18. If Helen is going to make “trust” the corner stone of her re-election campaign there are few points that need to be addressed.

    1. Actually deliver the funds that each region was promised from the regionally distrubuted 5 cents a litre tax introduced before the last election, especially to Christchurch which is rapidly becoming the pothole capital of New Zealand.

    2. Don’t brag about the biggest roading program this country has ever seen when it is only happening in Wellington and the former province of Auckland. Especially don’t do this if you do nothing to help Marlborough District Council avoid borrowing $1.3 million to pay for the repairs to it’s storm damaged roads when that regions roads are providing the land transport fund with $12m a year more than the region is receiving from the fund.

    3. Remember the promise you made to Manawatu to pay for the flood damage to their roads and bridges? You didn’t say that the money would be clawed back at the first opportunity. Manawatu is now only receiving 40% of the money it is paying into the land transport fund.

    4. Fess up that you stuffed up with the road safety strategy and that, thanks to high fuel prices suppressing traffic growth the target should have been reduced to 240 instead of being left at 300. Of course, you can’t apologise for the 1,000 avoidable deathes in the years since the NRSC told you how to cut the road toll to 150 (now 120 for the above reason) unless you actually implement the strategy, with a vengeance. Promise to raise the driving age, lower the algohol limit, increase funding for enforcement of serious offences by $60m and ringfence $500m a year of Transit’s funding for safety improvements, although that last amount really needs to be increased by 35% to cover the increase in the construction price index.

    Not that National is likely to call you out on any of these points. Act might, but who listens to them. Of course, one of the responsible NRSC members that you declined to reappoint might speak out but that’s unlikely since that haven’t done that already. The one most likely to have spoken out is dead, killed while cycling home from work a few months ago, at a notorious cycle accident black spot. How’s that for irony.

  19. Half of voters may think they have a secret agenda, but I bet half of all voters will end up voting National in this election.

  20. Stephen 20

    Out of nowhere comes Brett with a ‘good point’! Maybe not quite half, but hey.

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    by Philip Ferguson Much of the left, even people who formally identify as marxists, have collapsed politically in the face of postmodern gender theory of the sort pioneered by American philosopher Judith Butler. For Butler even biological sex is socially constructed. “If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The obvious question
    The media is reporting that the (alleged) Labour party sexual assaulter has resigned from their job at Parliament, which means hopefully he won't be turning up there making people feel unsafe in future. Good. But as with everything about this scandal, it just raises other questions. Most significantly: why the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The moment I found out that you found out, I acted swiftly
    By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • This is why people hate property developers
    Property developers think there is an "oversupply" of houses in Auckland:High turnover rates and falling prices may be a sign that there are too many new houses going in to some parts of Auckland, commentators say. [...] Property developer David Whitburn said there was a "bit of an oversupply" in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Australia to Pacific: “Fuck you, you can all drown”
    World leaders are meeting in New York in two weeks for the 2019 Climate Action Summit, where they are expected to announce new and more ambitious targets to stop the world from burning. But the Australian Prime Minister won't be there, despite being in the USA at the time:Scott Morrison ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Implausible ignorance
    Labour Party president Nigel Haworth resigned yesterday over the party's sexual assault scandal. But while that's good news, its unlikely to take away the stench of a coverup. Because according to Paula Bennett in Parliament yesterday, pretty much everyone in the Prime Minister's office was involved as well:I have been ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s Fatal Flaw.
     Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Ten reasons the Tories do NOT want an election
    There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Prorogation Illegal, rule Scottish judges
    Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Let me explain what I meant by Everyday New Zealanders
    By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Yes, the SIS is subject to the Public Records Act
    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago

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