Nearly half of voters think Nats have secret agenda

Written By: - Date published: 4:53 pm, August 26th, 2008 - 20 comments
Categories: youtube - Tags: , , ,

Here’s TV3’s coverage from last night. They’ve just completed a poll in which 45.7% of those surveyed think National has a secret agenda.

20 comments on “Nearly half of voters think Nats have secret agenda”

  1. vto 1

    Nearly all of voters will scream to the high heavens when the ETS burden smacks them heavily in the head.

  2. Anita 2

    I have wondered for a while whether National’s constant message about Labour social engineering agenda (blah blah homosexuality blah smacking blah schools blah hugs blah blah) was actually a deliberate inoculation strategy to blunt accusations that National has a secret agenda.

    It makes people cynical and disengaged, it means they’re unsurprised that National has dark secrets, it means they’ll vote for them anyway.

    Whatcha think?

  3. higherstandard 3

    But VTO the world will be saved I tell you saved !!

    My prediction is that in 20 years we’ll look back at a bigger scam than Y2K.

  4. Phil 4

    “It makes people cynical and disengaged, it means they’re unsurprised that National has dark secrets, it means they’ll vote for them anyway.”

    That was modus operandi for most voters loooong before C/T waded in.

    Michael Laws, in ‘The Demon Profession’ referred to MMP as the final opportunity our parliamentarians would ever get to bring back some dignity and respect to the occupation. I’d say 12 years on it’s fairly clear they’ve failed miserably.

  5. randal 5

    just listening to Maurice Williamson on rnz. he wont explain his statement. so it looks like the y have no agenda whatsoever. 2008 the ‘a4’ election

  6. Anita 6

    Phil,

    Was is a deliberate political tactic? I like to imagine things were once better than this 🙁

  7. Ari 7

    Michael Laws, in ‘The Demon Profession’ referred to MMP as the final opportunity our parliamentarians would ever get to bring back some dignity and respect to the occupation. I’d say 12 years on it’s fairly clear they’ve failed miserably.

    MMP has made some difference, but it’s a matter of aggressively supporting politicians who deserve dignity and respect and aggressively attacking those who don’t.

    Ultimately no matter how good a voting system is, it still succeeds or fails based on how people use it. A better system can make some real gains if it’s used with a decent amount of competency, but nothing’s a magic bullet on its own.

    The fact remains that MMP has proved much more representative of New Zealand than FPP did.

  8. Dean 8

    “Was is a deliberate political tactic? I like to imagine things were once better than this”

    Was Labour not campaigning on s59 reforms, civil unions and abolishment of referring legal matters to the privvy council a deliberate political tactic?

    Don’t misunderstand me, I actually have no problem with the first two and don’t care that Labour didn’t campaign on them. But it does beg the question, doesn’t it?

    It’s no good for people to whinge about National having a secret agenda when everyone on their preferred side of the political spectrum is just as guilty – with history and proof – of being exactly the same.

  9. Dean 9

    Ari:

    “The fact remains that MMP has proved much more representative of New Zealand than FPP did.”

    How many New Zealanders actually want the Greens or NZ First being the kingmakers?

    Sorry, your assertion fails. The devil is always in the details.

  10. Anita 10

    Dean,

    Was Labour not campaigning on s59 reforms, civil unions and abolishment of referring legal matters to the privvy council a deliberate political tactic?

    Labour included the abolition of appeal to the Privy Council in their 2002 pledge card, won the 2002 election and passed the law in 2003. I’m not sure why this myth hangs around so thoroughly as it’s so demonstrably wrong.

    The repeal of section 59 has long been a Green policy, and it was a Green Bill, it was drawn from the ballot and the debate began before the 2005 election, it was passed after the 2005 election. The bill was eventually supported by both Labour and National. Who do you believe should have campaigned on what and when?

    Civil Unions was a conscience vote for most (all?) parties including both Labour and National. I don’t see how a party can campaign on something which will be a conscience vote.

  11. Dean 11

    Anita:

    “Labour included the abolition of appeal to the Privy Council in their 2002 pledge card, won the 2002 election and passed the law in 2003. I’m not sure why this myth hangs around so thoroughly as it’s so demonstrably wrong.”

    Believe it or not, I’m having trouble finding the contents of the 2005 pledge card online so I’ll take your word for it and stand corrected.

    It’s a pity Labour had to pass retrospective law to validate their spending on this though, isn’t it? Would you call it “courageous corruption”?

    “The repeal of section 59 has long been a Green policy, and it was a Green Bill, it was drawn from the ballot and the debate began before the 2005 election, it was passed after the 2005 election. The bill was eventually supported by both Labour and National. Who do you believe should have campaigned on what and when?”

    Sorry, Anita, but Clark herself when questioned on this before the election said that she thought it’d be trying to defy human nature.

    Flip flop, secret hidden agenda, Slippery Clark – no amount of spin from you or anyone else will ever hide this. She lied to the people of New Zealand. If she really thought it would defy human nature then she would have voted against it. She didn’t – therefore, shes a liar. Once again.

    “Civil Unions was a conscience vote for most (all?) parties including both Labour and National. I don’t see how a party can campaign on something which will be a conscience vote.”

    I’m sure you don’t.

    How about we make everything a conscience vote? Why wasn’t the ETS made a conscience vote? The answer is that Labour are determined to rort the system, and people like you continue to defend it.

  12. Anita 12

    Dean,

    Creation of Supreme Court

    2002 pledge card (2002 pledge card, 2002 election, 2003 passed legislation) not 2005. Actually, I shall correct myself, it was in their manifesto, not sure about their pledge card. Sorry, I’ve retyped this so many times it’s got a bit fuzzy 🙂 I think I usually cite the republicans.

    Section 59 repeal

    Labour voted for the first reading before the 2005 election. I have no idea whether they campaigned on it or not.

    Given that both National and Labour voted for the Bill, does it bother you that neither campaigned on it? Or only that Labour didn’t.

    Conscience Votes

    Anita: I don’t see how a party can campaign on something which will be a conscience vote.

    HS:I’m sure you don’t.

    How can a party campaign on something which is explicitly not party policy? That is the point of something being a conscience vote.

    Last year a number of National MPs supported an attempt to make abortion harder to access, and a number voted against it. Do you think that means National should have campaigned on an anti-abortion platform? Or a pro-abortion one? Or what?

    Blurring the edges

    The answer is that Labour are determined to rort the system, and people like you continue to defend it.

    Do I? I’m pretty sure I was pointing out that you were factually inaccurate, your logic was inconsistent and you weren’t crediting the Greens with their win on the section 59 repeal.

    I think you’ll find me criticising Labour’s approach to climate change one thread over 🙂 As I said in another thread today; why do all of us on the left get lumped together?

  13. Anita 13

    Dean, sorry I srcewed up your name. Tired brain and fingers today.

  14. Dean 14

    Anita,

    “Given that both National and Labour voted for the Bill, does it bother you that neither campaigned on it? Or only that Labour didn’t.”

    National has nothing to do with it. They’ve been swallowing dead rats aplenty in the last few months, but it’s a pity that you don’t see the correlation between National and Labour.

    Labour have swallowed just as many; they’ve just been far more astute at it. And do you remember Key saying anything along the lines that a reform to s59 would be like trying to defy human nature?

    Let’s face it: on this subject, Clark and Labour are just plain liars. There are many other examples of National being the same, but this one is Clarks and Clarks only.

    “How can a party campaign on something which is explicitly not party policy? That is the point of something being a conscience vote.”

    Clark and Labour have NEVER whipped their MPs to vote in a conscience vote along party lines?

    You must be joking.

    “Do I? I’m pretty sure I was pointing out that you were factually inaccurate, your logic was inconsistent and you weren’t crediting the Greens with their win on the section 59 repeal.”

    The Greens didn’t “win” anything. They were needed to make up the numbers.

    “I think you’ll find me criticising Labour’s approach to climate change one thread over As I said in another thread today; why do all of us on the left get lumped together?”

    Because they all gloss over the indefensible, just as the right do. In your case, you completely ignored the restrospective validation point I raised. You can pretend you didn’t see it, or that it’s been gove over many times before to your satisfaction, but ultimately it’s just that whole “courageous corruption” deal that you on the left don’t want to face. Because you need Labour and Labour needs you.

    Face of modern politics? Reality of an MMP environemnt? In my opinion it’s utterly pathetic.

  15. r0b 15

    Because they all gloss over the indefensible, just as the right do. In your case, you completely ignored the restrospective validation point I raised.

    What’s your problem with the retrospective validation Dean? Why do you think it was a bad thing? Do you actually understand the legal situation at all?

  16. Dean 16

    “What’s your problem with the retrospective validation Dean? Why do you think it was a bad thing? Do you actually understand the legal situation at all?”

    I expect you’re going to pull out the whole “but everyone else did it” argument here. In fact, I bet you’re going to pass it off as being just by the by and quite mundane.

    Which of course it might be if you don’t count the things Labour said about the auditor general prior to doing so.

    Or the scale and purpose.

    rOb, I’ve come to expect that you’ll defend Labour under any circumstances whatsoever anytime, because you see them as the greater good. This example is no exception.

    We both know that if it had been the baby eating National party doing the same thing you’d be calling for their immediate resignation. Let’s not pretend here. You’re as partisan as Pinochet on this blog, and you know it.

    Can you please move along while those with any kind of impartiality may or may not choose to debate the subject? Cheers.

  17. r0b 17

    Does that mean you can’t answer my questions Dean? Didn’t think so. but don’t let your ignorance get in the way of a good rant.

  18. If Helen is going to make “trust” the corner stone of her re-election campaign there are few points that need to be addressed.

    1. Actually deliver the funds that each region was promised from the regionally distrubuted 5 cents a litre tax introduced before the last election, especially to Christchurch which is rapidly becoming the pothole capital of New Zealand.

    2. Don’t brag about the biggest roading program this country has ever seen when it is only happening in Wellington and the former province of Auckland. Especially don’t do this if you do nothing to help Marlborough District Council avoid borrowing $1.3 million to pay for the repairs to it’s storm damaged roads when that regions roads are providing the land transport fund with $12m a year more than the region is receiving from the fund.

    3. Remember the promise you made to Manawatu to pay for the flood damage to their roads and bridges? You didn’t say that the money would be clawed back at the first opportunity. Manawatu is now only receiving 40% of the money it is paying into the land transport fund.

    4. Fess up that you stuffed up with the road safety strategy and that, thanks to high fuel prices suppressing traffic growth the target should have been reduced to 240 instead of being left at 300. Of course, you can’t apologise for the 1,000 avoidable deathes in the years since the NRSC told you how to cut the road toll to 150 (now 120 for the above reason) unless you actually implement the strategy, with a vengeance. Promise to raise the driving age, lower the algohol limit, increase funding for enforcement of serious offences by $60m and ringfence $500m a year of Transit’s funding for safety improvements, although that last amount really needs to be increased by 35% to cover the increase in the construction price index.

    Not that National is likely to call you out on any of these points. Act might, but who listens to them. Of course, one of the responsible NRSC members that you declined to reappoint might speak out but that’s unlikely since that haven’t done that already. The one most likely to have spoken out is dead, killed while cycling home from work a few months ago, at a notorious cycle accident black spot. How’s that for irony.

  19. Half of voters may think they have a secret agenda, but I bet half of all voters will end up voting National in this election.

  20. Stephen 20

    Out of nowhere comes Brett with a ‘good point’! Maybe not quite half, but hey.

Links to post

Leave a Comment

Show Tags

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Urgent action needed on dirty rivers
    The Our Fresh Water Environment 2017 report re-confirms that we need urgent action to clean up our rivers. Meanwhile, National is standing by as our rivers get even more polluted, says Labour’s Environment spokesperson David Parker. “This report is yet ...
    10 hours ago
  • Where there’s smoke and mirrors, there’s Steven Joyce
    Steven Joyce’s much vaunted pre-Budget speech is simply an underwhelming response to the infrastructure deficit National has created, says Labour’s Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson. “Steven Joyce has belatedly come to the realisation that everyone else has a long time ago, ...
    10 hours ago
  • Time to stamp out cold, mouldy rentals
    New figures show a small number of landlords are letting down the sector by renting cold, mouldy rentals. These houses need to be brought up to a decent standard for people to live in by Andrew Little’s Healthy Homes Bill, ...
    1 day ago
  • Time for fresh approach on immigration
    Latest figures showing another record year for immigration underlines the need for an urgent rethink on how this country can continue to absorb so many people, says Labour Leader Andrew Little. “New Zealand needs immigrants and is all the better ...
    2 days ago
  • Bring back the Mental Health Commission
    The People’s Mental Health Review is a much needed wake up call for the Government on mental health, says the Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little.   “I applaud their proposal to restore a Mental Health Commission and their call for ...
    3 days ago
  • And the band played on…
    Making Amy Adams the Housing Minister five months out from the election is just the orchestra playing on as National’s Titanic housing crisis slips below the waves – along with the hopes and dreams of countless Kiwi families, says Labour’s ...
    3 days ago
  • Hotel no place for children in care
    ...
    7 days ago
  • Maybe not, Minister? Nick Smith’s housing measure suppressed
    Sir Humphrey: Minister, remember the Housing Affordability Measure work you asked us to prepare back in 2012? Well, it’s ready now.Minister Smith: Oh goodie, what does it say?Sir Humphrey: Nothing.Minister Smith: Nothing?Sir Humphrey: Well, sir, you asked us to prepare ...
    7 days ago
  • Inflation data shows many New Zealanders are worse off under National
    The latest inflation data from Statistics New Zealand shows that too many New Zealanders are now worse off under the National Government, said Labour’s Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson “Consumer Price Inflation (CPI) is now running at 2.2 per cent, and ...
    1 week ago
  • Another emergency housing grant blow out
      Emergency housing grants data released today show another blow out in spending on putting homeless people up in motels, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.   ...
    1 week ago
  • Families struggle as hardship grants increase
    The considerable increase in hardship grants shows that more and more Kiwi families are struggling to put food on the table and pay for basic schooling, says Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni. ...
    1 week ago
  • More tinkering, no leadership from Nats on immigration
    National’s latest tinkering with the immigration system is another attempt to create the appearance of action without actually doing anything meaningful, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. ...
    1 week ago
  • Suicide figures make for grim reading
    The 506 suspected suicides of Kiwis who have been in the care of mental health services in the last four years show that these services are under severe stress, says Labour’s Health spokesperson David Clark.   “If you do the ...
    1 week ago
  • Pay equity deal a victory for determination and unions
    The pay equity settlement revealed today for around 55,000 low-paid workers was hard-won by a determined Kristine Bartlett backed by her union, up against sheer Government resistance to paying Kiwis their fair share, says Labour Leader Andrew Little. “Labour welcomes ...
    1 week ago
  • DHB’s forced to make tough choices
    The Minister of Health today admitted that the country’s District Health Boards were having to spend more than their ring fenced expenditure on Mental Health, says Labour’s Health spokesperson David Clark.   “The situation is serious with Capital and Coast ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Nats break emergency housing pledge – deliver just five more places
    Despite National’s promises of 2,200 emergency housing beds, just 737 were provided in the March Quarter, an increase of only five from six months earlier, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Research underlines need for KiwiBuild
    New research showing the social and fiscal benefits of homeownership underlines the need for a massive government-backed building programme like KiwiBuild, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Social data security review too little, too late
    The independent review into the Ministry of Social Development’s individual client level data IT system is too little, too late, says Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni. “The Minister of Social Development has finally seen some sense and called for ...
    2 weeks ago
  • More questions raised on CERA conflicts
    With the admission that three more former CERA staff members are under suspicion of not appropriately managing conflicts of interest related to the Canterbury rebuild, it’s imperative that CERA’s successor organisation Ōtākaro fronts up to Parliamentary questions, says Labour’s Canterbury ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour to tackle Hutt housing crisis
    Labour will build a mix of 400 state houses and affordable KiwiBuild homes in the Hutt Valley in its first term in government to tackle the housing crisis there, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. “Housing in the Hutt ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Farewell to John Clarke
    This wonderfully talented man has been claimed by Australia, but how I remember John Clarke is as a young Wellington actor who performed satirical pieces in a show called “Knickers” at Downstage Theatre. The show featured other future luminaries like ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    2 weeks ago
  • Valedictory Speech
    Te papa pounamu Aotearoa NZ Karanga karanga karanga; Nga tupuna Haere haere haere; Te kahui ora te korowai o tenei whare; E tu e tu ... tutahi tonu Ki a koutou oku hoa mahi ki Te Kawanatanga; Noho mai noho ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Buck stops with Gerry Brownlee
    The fact that the State Services Commission has referred the CERA conflict of interest issue to the Serious Fraud Office is a positive move, but one that raises serious questions about the Government’s oversight of the rebuild, says Labour Canterbury ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Teachers deserve a democratic Education Council
    Teachers around New Zealand reeling from the news that their registration fees could more than double will be even angrier that the National Government has removed their ability to have any say about who sits on the Council that sets ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Free trade backers are simply out of touch
    Are the backers of free trade out of touch with public opinion? This was the question asked when the Chartered Accountants launched their Future of Trade study. I was astonished by the answer in a room of free trade enthusiasts ...
    GreensBy Barry Coates
    2 weeks ago
  • John Clarke aka Fred Dagg will be missed by all Kiwis
    The man who revolutionised comedy on both sides of the Tasman, John Clarke, will be sadly missed by Kiwis and Aussies alike, says the Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little.   “I grew up with Fred Dagg and I am ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s modern approach to monetary policy
    A commitment to full employment and a more transparent process to provide market certainty are the hallmarks of Labour’s proposals for a new approach to monetary policy, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Greens back Labour’s plan for monetary policy reform
    Labour plans to change the way we do monetary policy in New Zealand and the Green Party supports them fully. We’re now of a single mind on this. Labour will move away from our reliance on a single, unelected person ...
    GreensBy robert.ashe
    3 weeks ago
  • Greens back Labour’s monetary policy reform
    Labour plans to change the way we do monetary policy in New Zealand and the Green Party supports them fully. We’re now of a single mind on this. Labour will move away from our reliance on a single, unelected person ...
    GreensBy James Shaw
    3 weeks ago
  • Govt drops ball on Masters Games housing squeeze
    Families currently living in emergency accommodation face being forced out onto the street as motel accommodation in Auckland is filled up by contestants and visitors of the World Masters Games in coming weeks, says Labours social development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni. ...
    3 weeks ago
  • State inquiry for Nga Morehu – The Survivors of State Abuse
    The Prime Minister must show humanitarian leadership and launch an independent inquiry into historic claims of abuse of children who were in State care, says Labour’s Deputy Leader Jacinda Ardern. ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Coleman – ‘overwhelmed by disinterest’ and ‘conked out’
    Today’s trenchant criticism of the Government’s health policy by Ian Powell the executive director of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists must trigger action by the Minister, says Labour’s spokesperson for Health David Clark. ...
    3 weeks ago