Not wearing ties bad, denigrating MPs and breaching Standing Orders fine

24 comments on “Not wearing ties bad, denigrating MPs and breaching Standing Orders fine ”

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1. NZSage 1

   12 February 2021 at 8:39 am

   Hey if National want to waste oxygen on the issue of tie-wearing then go for it I'd say.

   Then the grown-ups in parliament can carry on working on the important stuff.
   • Gabby 1.1

     12 February 2021 at 9:10 am

     I take it that Simpleton is perfectly free to wear a tie if he wants, as tight as he likes, probably not as tight as I'd like.
2. Johnr 2

   12 February 2021 at 8:44 am

   Glad to see common sense prevailing with tie wearing in parliament being optional. Hell, with today's modern clothing they aren't even useful for holding your pants up.

   As for mr brown. As one commentator said "Does his mother know where he is?"
3. Robert Guyton 3

   12 February 2021 at 9:10 am

   Shaun Plunkett will be furious that he can't take this issue and flog it all day on talk-back radio!

   Oh how he could have whipped-up anti-Mallard/Labour feelings amongst his willing listeners!
4. Robert Guyton 4

   12 February 2021 at 9:26 am

   Peter Williams close to saying goodbye as well 🙂

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/magic-talks-peter-williams-gives-shout-out-to-anti-vaxxers
5. alwyn 5

   12 February 2021 at 9:41 am

   "The overwhelming majority of the country agree."

   I would love to know where you managed to get your evidence for this claim?
   • Phil 5.1

     12 February 2021 at 10:19 am

     I would love to know where you managed to get your evidence for this claim?

     When was the last time you walked into literally any office building in the country?

     Aside from stuffy old lawyers and most real estate agents, pretty much every white collar industry has abandoned the neck tie in favour of more interesting fashion accessories.
     • alwyn 5.1.1

       12 February 2021 at 10:57 am

       He didn't make the claim as an opinion, such as saying "I think the majority of ….."

       Ii was given as a statement of fact which traditionally requires evidence.
       • Phil 5.1.1.1

         12 February 2021 at 2:03 pm

         You know you're incredibly insufferable, right?
6. Enough is Enough 6

   12 February 2021 at 9:47 am

   Remind who raised the issue of wearing ties in Parliament?
   • David 6.1

     12 February 2021 at 11:56 am

     Spot on!
7. Stuart Munro 7

   12 February 2021 at 10:09 am

   Pretty cynical about the tie stoush – the man could've worn a tie under his tiki – he has done so before.

   It was a piece of cynical manipulation typical of talkback radio – creating a polarising issue instead of addressing those that arise from the people an MP is supposed to represent.

   The man's a Trump.
   • Sacha 7.1

     12 February 2021 at 10:17 am

     Have any media asked the people in his Waiariki electorate what they make of it? Certainly seems to match the kaupapa of his party.
     • Stuart Munro 7.1.1

       12 February 2021 at 10:39 am

       The success of his deceit does not magically transmogrify it from manipulation into advancing the enlightened best interests of his constituents.
       • Sacha 7.1.1.1

         12 February 2021 at 12:06 pm

         How do we know what those interests are?
         • Stuart Munro 7.1.1.1.1

           12 February 2021 at 12:45 pm

           We must use the powers of reason our species has developed, as far as we may. And it is fair to surmise, that wearing ties, or not wearing ties, is not the burning social justice issue that confronts our cultures, but a manufacturable point of difference that proponents may seek to display for political advantage. Some forgettable Gnat (the presciently named Simian Brown apparently) is presently doing the same thing from the other perspective, only with a little less success.
           • Sacha 7.1.1.1.1.1

             12 February 2021 at 1:33 pm

             You seem to be saying that a Māori electorate like that MP represents can only be concerned about what you believe counts as a 'social justice issue'.

             Structural racism and colonial symbols sound like fair game – but how about listening to the relevant people. Maybe someone who has also done the job.
             • Stuart Munro …

               12 February 2021 at 2:14 pm

               It is a good rationalization, as far as it goes, but it is after the fact.

               This is merely part of a consistent rhetorical stance we have seen from Rawiri Waititi, trying to beat up any issue at all he can then call racism upon.

               He was, after all, part of the committee that passed the rule on wearing ties in the first place, without so much as a peep.

               He is a Trump – a lying demagogue – unfit for office and beneath contempt.
8. tc 8

   12 February 2021 at 10:23 am

   Brown, Penk, Bishop etc are all reasons why Nationals vote was so low IMO.

   You can fool all the people some of the time as Key showed but the harsh reality of the pandemic showed reasonable kiwis how batshit crazy National can be….and still are.

   Collins could’ve crushed the deceitful outbursts from Ngaro during the campaign but choose to endorse his opinions instead. Says it all really.
   • Stuart Munro 8.1

     13 February 2021 at 9:03 am

     Brown, Penk, Bishop etc are all reasons why Nationals vote was so low IMO.

     I think the long-held illusion of National's economic competence has finally found its way into the dustbin of history where it belongs. Brown, Penk and Bishop are mere skirmishers – not capable of making a direct attack, but hoping to turn up an exposed flank. Even the dirty politics they play has been upstaged by the ranting lunacy of Billy TK and others of the Trumpian school. They are placeholders as their party slides into irrelevance, and neither Collins nor Luxton have the chops to save it.
9. Treetop 9

   12 February 2021 at 11:02 am

   Maybe a clothes designer could design a different business shirt to be worn with a suit that does not require a tie. The collar is where I would start.

   The next debate will be whether or not the top button of the shirt needs to be buttoned up.

   Have a shirt made which has a picture of a tie where a tie is usually placed.
   • Cole 9.1

     14 February 2021 at 5:05 am

     I have never come across a shirt that actually requires a tie. Take the tie off, and it still works perfectly well as a shirt, every time. To be honest, I've never even figured out what exactly the tie is supposed to be doing in the first place. I certainly do not want to be represented in Parliament by anyone who would wear anything so ridiculous as a tie!
10. Sacha 10

    12 February 2021 at 1:29 pm

    Ex-MP Metiria Turei on the meaning of parliamentary attire. https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/11-02-2021/metiria-turei-why-the-parliament-necktie-fight-is-so-much-more-than-some-petty-squabble/

    So while this seemingly meaningless squabble over whether to wear ties or not in the parliamentary chamber seems facile, in fact, it is a discussion about who exercises power and how that power is presented to the benefit of the individual MP and their constituency. Men’s suits are the ubiquitous visual representation of a man wielding authority and his tie is an essential element of that uniform. A suit rarely, if ever, performs this function if the person is not also wearing a tie.

    …

    The Māori Party approach is unique in relation to the neckties business. Some might believe it to be a misuse of cultural norms but in fact, the whole question of a dress code in parliament is a cultural question – whose culture is being represented by a business attire dress code, and in the 21st century, what the hell is business attire anyway?

    …

    It seems more than timely to abandon the culturally bound and frankly lazy concept of business attire which is simply code for Pākehā visual symbols of authority. A suit and tie is a visual proxy for power and authority in New Zealand’s western mainstream culture. The Māori Party argument is that taonga is the Māori cultural status symbol.
    • Phil 10.1

      12 February 2021 at 2:18 pm

      A suit rarely, if ever, performs this function [visual representation of a man wielding authority] if the person is not also wearing a tie.

      I agree with Turei's overall view that business attire is largely an outdated concept, but take minor issue with this claim.

      A tie might be the finishing touch to an overall projection of authority, but my experience here in New Zealand is that all too often the tie undercuts any authority the wearer seeks to project – whether it be tied too tightly, not tightly enough, stained or dirty or worn, askew, mismatched to the rest of the ensemble.

      For all fashion choices, the success of any attempted projection is less about the items of clothing themselves and more about the comfort and presence of the individual wearing them.

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