NRT: Numbers out of his arse

Written By: - Date published: 1:25 pm, August 22nd, 2012 - 31 comments
Categories: john key, Privatisation - Tags: , , ,

I/S at No Right Turn had several good posts up yesterday, here’s one of them:


Numbers out of his arse

Remember when the opposition challenged the government on its plans to bribe the rich with taxpayers’ money via an asset sales “bonus scheme”? And remember when John Key slapped then down by saying:

If the entire float earned $5 billion and 20 per cent of investors were ‘mum and dads’ the total cost would be $60m based on an Australian model, he said.“$60m for the entire programme. So it’s $60m, not a billion, three, or whatever ridiculous numbers are in the paper this morning all those numbers are wrong.”

(Emphasis added)It turns out that he was pulling those numbers out of his arse. An OIA request through FYI, the public OIA site, has revealed that the Prime Minister “was not provided with any specific advice” on the costs of his bonus scheme (it also claims that he didn’t say what he’s on the record as saying – the sort of transparent nonsense you get when you leave spindoctors to write your responses). So, faced with media questions, he made numbers up to defend his case.

And we’re supposed to take National seriously as economic managers? Sorry, but I’d prefer someone honest, who bothered to ask for advice before making a decision.

31 comments on “NRT: Numbers out of his arse”

  1. Tracey 1

    so, perhaps the taunt across the house now from Opposition should be

    “show us the funny money”

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      😆

      • Akldnut 1.1.1

        There should be a whole session where they opposition ask only questions where dodgey figures have been used and the whole opposition scream out “Show us the Money” with each question.

        Would be hilarious.

  2. Adrian 2

    There was a fascinating discussion with an ex-CIA interrogator on NatRad yesterday about spotting lies. He has a book Spy the Lie I think. Anyway his interpretation was that sociopaths were compulsive liars and vice-versa, they cant help just making shit up, but when found out and corrected and questioned their behaviour is the give away, loss of eye contact, lip licking and blaming others. Remind you of anyone ?

    • mike 2.1

      This is basically correct. They are totally confident in their own ability to talk their way out of anything. They are indeed very good at thinking in their feet when questioned, and will not hesitate to simply make shit up (with half-truths and unverifiable statements) when necessary. This confidence makes them better liars, and coupled with a business suit and a position of authority it is a very powerful tool.

      However they can get lazy, being so confident in their own BSing ability, and come up with some very weak lines. Also they are impulsive and compulsive in their lying, they just can’t help themselves.
      They believe they are superior and others are stupid, they are too smart to get caught. This can be a strength and a weakness.

      When called out some will actually maintain a fierce eye-contact, but blaming others, questioning credentials, “That source isn’t reliable,” “How dare you / The insinuation is offensive”, attack the interviewer, are standard.

      • mike 2.1.1

        A true psychopath will argue that black is white if they have to, and make you fell stupid for questioning it. In fact Robert Hare has found that they will lie even when they know that the person they are lying to to knows they are lying. A very interesting finding, implying that there is more than just lying as the rest of us understand it going on here. Hare concludes along the lines that at a deep level they actually believe that reality can be altered by saying so. Anyone who questions is an obstacle to their world, (which is why they often seem to react with genuine indignation), and must thus be removed from their world somehow.

  3. Tracey 3

    I must say Adrian I found his eyes darted much more than usual on TV3’s news last night.

  4. Chris 4

    He’s doing a lot more of sucking air through his teeth when he finishes a sentence.It’s so irritating.

  5. Wayne 5

    The Prime Ministers background is finance, in which he was very successful. He can sort these sort of numbers in a ballpark sense pretty easily, certainly better than anyone else in Parlaiment. He will certainly know this area much better than anyone in Treasury.

    Like most high level experts with decades of experience in any field, he will have a good sense of the realistic dimension of the issue. That is what experts can do; they can rely on their expertise and judgement without having to cross check every aspect before they venture an opinion.

    So the OIA does not prove anything.

    • fnjckg 5.1

      wtf

      • Murray Olsen 5.1.1

        After giving Wayne’s post much thought, I find myself in full agreement with your profound evaluation of it.
        In my line of work some people consider me an expert, and I can usually do a quick evaluation of a given problem and have an opinion. Following on from forming this opinion, my response would be either:
        1. This could work, so it’s worth my while actually doing the calculations. 
        2. This is unlikely to work, but possible, so let’s check it out.
        3. This’ll never work because it violates the laws of nature (or something else).
        Key does not give the answers of an expert; he gives the answers of a conman or used car salesman.

    • framu 5.2

      That might work just fine in international finance wayne – but hes the prime minister

      he cant just go “werll youse are all wrong” based on a guess or assumption. As someone entrusted to run the country he ekshully needs to back things up with evidence – and the OIA proves he doesnt have any

      and when you add in the juvenille “show me the money” business, its even more imperitave for Key to back things up with facts. Its kinda like me saying that your wearing your pants all wrong while theres a soft summer breeze across my own butt cheeks

      all this “its a guess”, “back of an envelop” stuff isnt the way you run a country

    • Carol 5.3

      Key can also walk on water, turn water into wine, and rise from the dead. We don’t need evidence of this because he survived in the business world.

      PS: A finance trader is a glorified salesman, using figures as much to deceive as to inform.

    • Dv 5.4

      Would a financial advisor get away with is sort of rubbish?

    • mike e 5.5

      Wayne kerr Investment banker yeah right lokk up Merrill Lynch on the net and corruption and in three weeks when you have read all the low down dirty insider trading ponzi schemes etc that ML have been involved with tell me Shonkey hasn’t been involved in any of them.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.6

      Wow, you do have some delusional fantasies don’t you?

      BTW, did you notice the Global Financial Crisis going on ATM? You know, the one caused by people just like your hero John Key?

    • mike 5.7

      Let me help you out there Wayne.

      The Prime Ministers background is siphoning money from the middle class, in which he was very successful. He can pull bullshit numbers out of his ass pretty easily, certainly better than anyone else in Parliament, people conning people with shonkey numbers that sound vaguely plausible is home sweet home. He will certainly know this area much better than anyone in Treasury.

      Like most high level experts with decades of experience in any field, he will have a good sense of the realistic dimension of the issue, but he’s sure as shit not going to tell us about that. That is what con-men do; they rely on misinformation and half-truths without bothering to cross check every aspect before they venture an opinion.

      So the OIA proves that John Key pulled hypothetical guestimates out of his ass with nothing to back them up, them used them in an argument to counter his opponents.

    • Dr Terry 5.8

      And exactly what kind of background in finance would you call that? Many such backgrounds include very devious dealings. Just because it happens to be a financial background (most describe it as “business”, in fact) does not infer that it is necessarily clean or ethical. That is cause for enquiry.

    • Colonial Viper 5.9

      The Prime Ministers background is finance, in which he was very successful.

      Investment banking and financial market speculation has NOTHING to do with understanding the real economy.

      That is what experts can do; they can rely on their expertise and judgement without having to cross check every aspect before they venture an opinion.

      Key could only do this in the fields of investment banking and financial market speculation.

      Do you want him to gamble with the fortunes of NZ?

  6. Blue 6

    I wasn’t aware that there was any other method for getting numbers in the National Government. They are either pulled out of John Key’s arse, or Bill English’s arse.

    It’s not like we have any journalists in this country. The Nats don’t need to go to any trouble to impress anyone.

    • lprent 6.1

      You forgot Nick Smith – he was pretty good about lying with numbers as well.

      How soon the the reshuffle do you think? They can’t keep a man with his talent for bullshit numbers out of a National government for long…

    • Herodotus 6.2

      Why then in question time can not Labour (The main opposition party) with the ability to ask more questions and follow up with supplementary questions hold the govt to these? Simple direct questions, then follow up the following day or two. Set the minister/PM up. With the experience/skill & wisdom? that Lab has it is not evident 🙁
      Even with Peters with all his experience and delivery could not contain himself yesterday getting himself red carded in the 1st few minutes, and as a result lost his ability to ask a question.

  7. xtasy 7

    English is a clown now, stating that Solid Energy is not fit for selling, admitting the Maori Council and Waitangi Tribunal can stop the sale of yet another energy company, if not all. So the shambles are now becoming facts. Key and English are out of answers and sense, looking like the sad clowns in a circus that is not getting any crowds to laugh and cheer. It is over, dear sell out brigade, pack your bags, surrender and go to your quarters – in opposition soon!

  8. tracey 8

    ACC report due today so the PM decides this is the day to ignite the euthanasia debate… Coincidence? Divert attention from a cornerstone of nz to something highly emotionally charged…

  9. irascible 9

    As a money trader (high stakes gambler) being able to lie convincingly about possible returns on a bluff is the key skill needed to part fools from their money. This is the technique KeY uses to spin his way out of situations he has no real grasp of. The hocking off of the State Assets is a policy KeY has no convincing argument for except that his cronies will benefit.

    • bbfloyd 9.1

      He wouldn’t be able to spin his way out of a paper bag if our fourth estate was worth half a tin of goat shit….they are actually his real diplomatic protection squad….. shielding us from the truth of his duplicity, and his serious mental imbalances….

      he could fart the first four bars of beethovens ninth, follow through on the last bar, and be lauded as being “statesman like”, and his “statement” to have “substance”…

      With that level of protection, when is he EVER going to be exposed for what he is?

      • Blue 9.1.1

        I can actually imagine that, sadly.

        “The Prime Minister gave an impressive performance at his post-Cabinet press conference this afternoon, farting the first four bars of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony.

        Those in attendance were unable to work out what exact statement Mr Key was making, but say it sounded very impressive.

        “He got four whole bars in, totally note-perfect too,” said Tracy Watkins of the Dominion Post. “That’s why the voters love him!”

        Her sentiments were echoed by Mr Joe Bloggs of Kaitaia.

        “He’s a real Kiwi bloke, that’s why we all voted for him,” Mr Bloggs said. “Good on him, I say.”

        Greens co-leader Russel Norman was unimpressed with the Prime Minister contributing to New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions, and Winston Peters said the Prime Minister’s conduct was “disgraceful.”

        Sources within the Labour Party say that MPs are desperately scrambling to eat as many beans as they can in the hope of matching John Key’s performance.”

    • Tiresias 9.2

      A money trader at a place like Merrill Lynch has no need to lie to anyone. He is allocated a tranch of capital, given some insider information plus software that runs algorithms measuring risk and returns in real time, watches a screen and only has to press the proper buttons at more or less the right time to see a profit. Some traders, though, think that the huge advantages they gain from being on the House side of the gamble are down to their inborn brilliance and natural superiority, and so look to climb the ladder from the trading floor to the offices above by trying to get a better return than the safe 0.01% on the millions they trade. A very few succeed.

      Key never got off the trading floor, so he was at least bright enough to know his limitations.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Typhoid report shows health officials under the hammer
    A chaotic picture has emerged around the response of Auckland public health officials to this year’s typhoid outbreak, says Aupito William Sio Labour’s Pacific Island Affairs spokesman.  “Our Pacific community was left exposed by the Auckland Regional Public Health Services’ ...
    23 hours ago
  • Huge high country station risks going to overseas ownership
    The real estate advertisement is spot on in describing Mt White Station as an “iconic” South Island high country station. The 40,000 hectare property is adjacent to Arthur’s Pass National Park and the upper reaches of the Waimakariri River. Mt ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    1 day ago
  • Bill English must be upfront about his involvement in Barclay scandal
    Bill English’s explanations that he was on the periphery of the long running employment dispute involving Todd Barclay don’t stack up, says Labour Leader Andrew Little. “The Prime Minister claims to have been a bystander, but we know he was ...
    2 days ago
  • Labour will not resile from royalties
    Labour believes cleaning up our rivers so that they are clean enough to swim in is the most important freshwater issue for this election, but that it is also fair that a royalty should be charged where public water is ...
    3 days ago
  • With friends like Hone, who needs enemies?
    With less than three months until the election, Hone Harawira has delivered another blow to the Māori Party’s flagship policy of Te Ture Whenua Māori reform and the already unstable MANA-Maori Party alliance, says Ikaroa-Rāwhiti MP Meka Whaitiri. “On The ...
    3 days ago
  • Shifty Bill jumps the shark
    Bill English's claim today that it has never been established that Todd Barclay's recordings of his staff took place is bizarre and shows a complete lack of honesty and leadership, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson.  "Todd Barclay told Bill ...
    4 days ago
  • Te Ture Whenua – gone by lunchtime?
    Māori Development Minister Te Ururoa Flavell has to front up about yesterday’s mysterious withdrawal of Te Ture Whenua Bill from Parliament’s order paper, says Labour’s Ikaroa Rawhiti MP Meka Whaitiri.  “Has he lost his way and has decided to run ...
    5 days ago
  • Bill English ignorance of law beggars belief
    For Bill English to claim he and others in the National Party didn’t realise the law may have been broken in the Todd Barclay taping scandal is simply not credible, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. “The Prime Minister ...
    5 days ago
  • Government ignored advice on Pacific people’s superannuation
    The Government ignored advice from the Ministry of Pacific Peoples that raising the Superannuation age of eligibility would have a ‘disproportionately high impact’ on Pacific people, says Labour’s Pacific Island Affairs spokesperson Aupito William Sio.   “The Ministry for Pacific ...
    5 days ago
  • Bill English misleads Parliament on Police statement
    Bill English's attempt to restore his damaged credibility over the Todd Barclay affair has backfired after his claim to have "reported" Mr Barclay's actions to Police has proven not to be true, says Labour MP for Wellington Central Grant Robertson. ...
    6 days ago
  • Keep it Public
    The Green Party strongly supports the Tertiary Education Unions call to #KeepitPublic Keep what public? Out quality tertiary education system that National is trying to open up to more private for-profit providers with a new law change. The (Tertiary Education ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    6 days ago
  • This ‘technical error’ is hurting big time
    Jonathan Coleman cannot resort to his ongoing litany that the Ministry of Health’s $38 million budget blunder is an error on paper only, says Labour’s Health spokesperson David Clark. “He might keep saying it’s a ‘technical error’ but the reality ...
    6 days ago
  • Labour to invest in public transport for Greater Christchurch
    Labour will commit $100m in capital investment for public transport in Greater Christchurch, including commuter rail from Rolleston to the CBD, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. “As the rebuild progresses, there are huge opportunities for Greater Christchurch, but ...
    6 days ago
  • Green Party will repeal solar tax
    It’s ridiculous for an electricity distribution monopoly to apply a charge on solar panels but worse than that, it’s harming our effort to tackle climate change. Hawke’s Bay lines company Unison last year announced a new solar charge for their ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    7 days ago
  • English fails the character test over Barclay
    Bill English is hoping this scandal will go away, but he is still dodging important questions over his role in covering up for Todd Barclay, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. ...
    7 days ago
  • Government must apologise for Christchurch schools stuff-up
    The Ombudsman’s findings that the Ministry of Education botched the reorganisation of Christchurch schools after the 2011 earthquake are damning for an under-fire National Government, says Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins. “The Ombudsman has found the reorganisation of schools in ...
    7 days ago
  • Government’s multinational tax measures weak
    The Government’s proposals to crack down on multinational tax avoidance, by its own admission only recovering one third of the missing money, means hardworking Kiwis will bear more of the tax burden, says Labour’s Revenue spokesperson Michael Wood. “The Government ...
    7 days ago
  • World Refugee Day – we can do our bit
    I’m really proud that yesterday, on World Refugee Day, the Greens launched an ambitious plan to increase the refugee quota to 5000 over the next six years. Of those places, 4,000 will be directly resettled by the government and another ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • PM’s leadership in question over Barclay affair
    The Prime Minister must belatedly show some leadership and compel Todd Barclay to front up to the Police, says Labour Leader Andrew Little. “Twice today Bill English has been found wanting in this matter. ...
    1 week ago
  • Another memory lapse by Coleman?
    The Minister of Health ‘couldn’t recall’ whether the Director General of Health Chai Chuah offered his resignation over the Budget funding fiasco involving the country’s District Health Boards, says Labour’s Health spokesperson David Clark. “In the House today Jonathan Coleman ...
    1 week ago
  • Bill English needs to come clean over Barclay
    Bill English needs to explain why he failed to be upfront with the public over the actions of Clutha-Southland MP Todd Barclay, following revelations that he knew about the secretly recorded conversations in the MP’s electorate office, says Labour Leader ...
    1 week ago
  • Minister, show some backbone and front up and debate
    Rather than accusing critics of his Te Ture Whenua Māori Bill of telling ‘lies’, Māori Development Minister Te Ururoa Flavell should show some backbone and front up to a debate on the issue, says Ikaroa-Rāwhiti MP Meka Whaitiri. “Te ...
    1 week ago
  • Equal pay for mental health workers
    Today, mental health workers are filing an equal pay claim through their unions. Mental health support workers do important and difficult work in our communities. But because the workforce is largely female, they are not paid enough. It’s wrong for ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • Nats’ HAM-fisted housing crisis denial
    National’s decision to knowingly release a flawed Housing Affordability Measure that underestimates the cost of housing is the latest evidence of their housing crisis denial, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    1 week ago
  • New Pike footage builds compelling case for mine re-entry
    New footage of the Pike River Mine deep inside the operation, revealing no fire damage or signs of an inferno, provides a compelling reason to grant the families of Pike River’s victims their wish to re-enter the drift, says Labour ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour will get tough on slum boarding houses
    The next Labour-led Government will legislate a Warrant of Fitness based on tough minimum standards to clean out slum boarding houses, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “It’s not acceptable for New Zealanders in the 21st Century to be living ...
    1 week ago
  • Green Party tribute to Dame Nganeko Minhinnick
    Haere ngā mate ki tua o paerau; te moenga roa o ngā mātua tupuna. Haere, haere, haere. It was with a huge sense of loss that we learned of the death of Dame Nganeko Minhinnick yesterday. The Green Party acknowledges ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    2 weeks ago
  • Urgent answers needed on DHB funding
      Jonathan Coleman must come clean and answer questions about what actual funding DHBs received in Budget 2017, says Labour Health Spokesperson David Clark.   ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Treasury puts Māori Land Service on red alert
    A damning Treasury report raises serious questions about the delivery of Te Ururoa Flavell’s proposed Māori Land Service, giving it a ‘red’ rating which indicates major issues with the project, says Ikaroa-Rāwhiti MP Meka Whaitiri.  “Treasury’s Interim Major Projects Monitoring ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Economy stalling after nine years of National’s complacency
    The second successive quarterly fall in per person growth shows the need for a fresh approach to give all New Zealanders a fair share in prosperity, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Kiwi kids deserve much more
    All Kiwi kids deserve so much more than the impoverished picture painted by the shameful rankings provided by the UNICEF Innocenti Report Card, says Labour’s children spokesperson Jacinda Ardern. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • NZ Zone a precursor to a total nuclear weapon ban
    New Zealand’s nuclear-free zone, legislated by Parliament in 1987, is something we all take pride in. It’s important, however, that we don’t let it thwart its own ultimate purpose – a world free of nuclear weapons. That goal must be ...
    GreensBy Kennedy Graham
    2 weeks ago
  • English must confirm we still stand by our principles on UN resolution
    Bill English must tell New Zealand whether we remain in support of the UN Security Council resolution on Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory, says Labour Leader Andrew Little. “After Foreign Affairs Minister Gerry Brownlee’s evasive answers to repeated questions on ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Māori party drop the poi on Māori health
    The Māori Party have dropped the poi when it comes to supporting Ngati Whakaue and Māori interests in Bay of Plenty by allowing an iwi owned and operated service Te Hunga Manaaki to be brushed aside in favour of a ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour to invest in Whanganui River infrastructure
    Labour will work in partnership with the Whanganui Council to repair and redevelop the city’s Port precinct in advance of planned economic development and expansion. To enable Whanganui’s plans, Labour will commit $3m in matching funding for repairing the Whanganui ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Parihaka: an apology
    An apology only works for healing if it is sincere and if it is accepted. We teach our children to apologise and to be genuine if they want to be forgiven. On Friday, June 9 at Parihaka, the Crown apologised ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    2 weeks ago
  • Survey shows many international students plan to stay in NZ after study
    Most international students in New Zealand at PTEs (private training establishments) who have a plan for themselves after study intend to stay in New Zealand to work. This shows how low-level education has become a backdoor immigration route under National, ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Councils step up as Nats drop the ball on housing crisis
    Phil Goff’s Mayoral Housing Taskforce is another positive example of councils stepping up where National has failed on housing, says Labour Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Time for a breather on immigration
    Labour will introduce moderate, sensible reforms to immigration to reduce the pressure on our cities, while ensuring we get the skilled workers our country needs, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. “New Zealand is a country built on immigration. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Inaction puts Māui dolphins at risk
    Conservation Minister Maggie Barry was at the United Nations Oceans Conference in New York last week, trying to convince the world that the New Zealand Government is doing a good job at protecting our marine environment.  Yet last week after ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    2 weeks ago
  • National unprepared as immigration runs four times faster than forecast
    National has been caught asleep at the wheel by record immigration that has outstripped Budget forecasts, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • First home buyers shouldn’t carry the can for National’s failed policies
    The introduction of tighter limits on lending to first home buyers would see them paying the price for the National Party’s failure to recognise or fix the housing crisis, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “Nine years of denial and ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Motel bill blows out as Nats fail to deliver emergency housing
    Minister Amy Adams has admitted at select committee that National has now spent $22m on putting homeless families in motels as it fails to deliver the emergency housing places it promised, says Labour Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    3 weeks ago