web analytics

Onya, Granny!

Written By: - Date published: 11:05 am, October 10th, 2014 - 46 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags:

Today’s Herald editorial raises important questions about the police search of Nicky Hager’s home.

In response to a complaint of theft – common old theft – five police officers spent the best part of a day searching the Hager home and taking away everything from computers to an iPod. Not because Hager was considered a “suspect” but because he could be a “witness” to the crime. If every theft complaint made to police resulted in this kind of response, searches under warrants of houses and businesses would be constant and not much else would be achieved by our constabulary.

46 comments on “Onya, Granny! ”

  1. wtl 1

    Unfortunately, by calling what happened ‘theft’ the Herald is playing right into the hands of those who are erroneously asserting that Hager was in possession of stolen property, when according to expert legal opinion Hager faces no risk of criminal liability at all.

    • Sacha 1.1

      Yes, copying is not stealing because it does not deprive the owner of continued use of the information. Different offense.

  2. ianmac 2

    Andrew Geddis has an important discussion going on re the rights and wrongs of the Hager Raid case. The commentary also raises some important points.
    http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/the-case-for-and-against-nicky-hager

    For example Andrew writes’“Of course, a “legal right” is not the same thing as a “legal duty” to act. The police have investigative independence, so nothing says that they must search Mr Hager’s property (and take away his devices and materials) in this way. Furthermore, Mr Hager is not a suspect in any offending – he’s an “innocent witness”, in the sense that he’s simply lawfully** in possession of information that might help with identifying the hacker.

    • Sacha 2.1

      Is there any precedent for Police taking action like this against a witness rather than a suspect?

  3. wekarawshark 3

    Anyone got an idea of how long it will take for Hager to get a hearing?

    • ianmac 3.1

      Imagine being without your phones and laptop and notes and contact numbers for say, umm well Courts are all busy so how about July 2015 for a prelim, then maybe a hearing before the end of 2015? Wait a minute. A Mr Key is on the the line and he thinks 2016 would be a better time to start. OK?

    • Tracey 3.2

      If he goes for injunctive relief he could have an initial hearing in a few days or weeks… If he goes the usual civil route this is months and months and months.

  4. wyndham 4

    The chief objective of the whole confiscation exercise is surely one of intimidation.

    Any of you journos step out of line . . . . .

  5. RRM 5

    Big old BS – the e mails were STOLEN, it is as simple as that.

    Political-type people will make of that what they will.

    Perhaps if Hager had interviewed a few people, instead of just writing a book of one-sided allegations ABOUT them, based on STOLEN e mails, and published at a slightly less cynical time than a few weeks before the election, he might not be in this position today?

    [lprent: Based on reading the blog posts of the various people that were referred to in the emails passed to him. You really can’t get much more independent that the actual actions of arseholes.

    Plus doing a pretty widespread verification among many people who read those blogs and keep an eye on Slater, Odgen, Farrar, Ede, and others of that dirty brigade. Like me and the score of people that I pointed to and introduced to Hagers people.

    Why would you ask Slater? He is currently saying that yes he made those statements in those emails, but that he was lying and bullshitting. What makes you think that he wouldn’t lie or bullshit to a journo or for that matter the police or a judge?

    You appear to be an idiot troll. ]

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1

      Legal type people will see that you don’t even know what the law says, and dismiss your ignorant opinion out-of-hand on that basis alone.

      • RRM 5.1.1

        We’ll see.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1

          Which section of the crimes act do you think applies here?

          • RRM 5.1.1.1.1

            No idea but I’m sure the search warrant would make interesting reading.

            • Tracey 5.1.1.1.1.1

              You must be ropable that Slaters home and office, computes and servers werent siezed under warrant in 2012. Such injustice. Almost made you take out a private prosecution of the police for failing their duty to prevent the use of stolen emails? Yes?

              • hoom

                Indeed.

                And the Cops really ought to have confiscated all the IT gear of the Nats & related parties back in the days of the Hollow Men because, you know, at least one of them might have been a witness…

            • wtl 5.1.1.1.1.2

              So you are acknowledging that your assertion of something being “as simple as that” is completely plucked out of you arse, rather than being based on what the law in NZ actually says.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1.1.3

              Get a clue, S. 252.

              Get another clue: precedent:

              We conclude that the convictions entered in the District Court should be quashed, but only on the ground conceded by the Crown, namely that computer data is not ‘property’ as defined.

              My bold.

              • Tracey

                it depends on context in a way OAB. for example the brambles case stated that data that was client related could never pass to another, whether legally obtained or not, if the clients had not authorised the release.

                repeated in nz high court in citibank v white

              • ianmac

                Great Anon Bloke. I referred to that a few weeks ago but could not find a definitive reference.
                A piece of paper might be property. But data copied and nothing material taken is a problem.
                A bit like stealing the words spoken. Not property really.

            • framu 5.1.1.1.1.4

              “No idea but I’m sure the search warrant would make interesting reading.”

              so – you dont know what your on about AND your avoiding any replies

              wonderful effort – the drop kick bin must be getting really empty

              • Tracey

                bear in mind

                “… Perhaps if Hager had interviewed a few people, instead of just writing a book of one-sided allegations ABOUT them, based on STOLEN e mails, and published at a slightly less cynical time than a few weeks before the election, he might not be in this position today? …”

                is just a rehash of slaters statement along the same lines which has been taken by his accolytes or his numerous aliases and dispersed… an ebola of the mind if you like

              • wekarawshark

                “No idea but I’m sure the search warrant would make interesting reading.”

                This would be the search warrant issued by the police who claim Hager is a witness not a suspect?

              • RRM

                have it your way then, the police are a private security force, outside of the law, obedient only to the PM’s office. It’s all dirty politics.
                Dirty politics, dirty politics, dirty politics.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Get a grip. The Police exhibit clear bias in their approach to crimes – there’s nothing controversial in this statement – they themselves acknowledge and pledge to tackle such biases when they occur.

                  If they were implicated in the abuses of power made evident by the Rawshark hack, the right wing death threat factories would be redundant.

                • wtl

                  have it your way then, the police are a private security force, outside of the law, obedient only to the PM’s office. It’s all dirty politics.
                  Dirty politics, dirty politics, dirty politics

                  Which has absolutely no relevance to the preceding comments by your critics. No one has said in this thread that the police acted “outside the law”, they have simply said that your comments regarding the legal situation were incorrect. Yet you fail to respond to these criticisms and simply refuse to engage.

    • NZJester 5.2

      Why was Slater not treated in the same manner for his writing an attack on someone that was not in the public interest. Slater had actual physical stolen property in the form of a hard drive and a file cabinet of documents. He made a lot of allegations that had a lot of people investigating his target and yet all the investigations got dropped as the allegations proved false.

      All the allegations made in the book Dirty Politics that so far have been investigated however have fond to be true.

    • RRM 5.3

      [lprent: Based on reading the blog posts of the various people that were referred to in the emails passed to him. You really can’t get much more independent that the actual actions of arseholes.

      Plus doing a pretty widespread verification among many people who read those blogs and keep an eye on Slater, Odgen, Farrar, Ede, and others of that dirty brigade. Like me and the score of people that I pointed to and introduced to Hagers people.

      Why would you ask Slater? He is currently saying that yes he made those statements in those emails, but that he was lying and bullshitting. What makes you think that he wouldn’t lie or bullshit to a journo or for that matter the police or a judge?

      You appear to be an idiot troll. ]

      Nice, that’s like saying that all you need to have a fair trial is the prosecution counsel (Hager) and the prosecution’s witnesses (you and “your people” you introduced to Hager’s people.)

      No defense required or even allowed.

      The ends justify the means. Just another beautiful day under the People’s Glorious Revolution.

      [Lprent: so you didn’t read my note, instead you start jerking off? Typical.. ]

      • Once Was Tim 5.3.1

        “[lprent: I don’t try to eliminate them. I just try to keep the rabbits down to an acceptable level. Why would I spoil the fun. ]” (http://thestandard.org.nz/police-raid-hager/#comment-905342)

        You’ve a studier cardio-vascular system than I. I just want to say Christ! and eeeeee by gum! Jesus, Fcuk Me! and fuck me with a feather duster. I ‘spose the fuckwit is “fun” – sort of ….
        But then I guess your tolerance of complete fucking idiots is one reason why visiting this site is on the daily agenda for me
        I just got thru’ reading the post “Noam Chomsky on Student Debt”. I’ll bet RRM has a tertiary qual of some sort (maybe not).

        ……. anyway, back to Hobbitville else I run the risk of seeing you (lprent) as oikonuk?

    • Murray Rawshark 5.4

      Perhaps if someone using the pseudonym RRM hadn’t made a post so foul on Kiwibog that a bloke who disguised himself as Jimmy Saville felt moved to delete it I would worry about your opinion. Given that, and the fact that you’re also spewing a load of ignorant rubbish, you can go and…………….

    • Redbaiter 5.5

      “You appear to be an idiot troll. ”

      I banned this guy years ago for his comments dripping with vitriol but lacking any substance on my own blog.

      But back then he was virulently left wing. And IMHO he is still pretty much a left winger.

      Why is he today over here being accused of being a left wing troll? And I think he voted for National last election.

      Maybe he’s a good case for study.

  6. NZJester 6

    Don’t forget also that Hager is on record before the election as saying he had removed all files relating to Rawshark from his home just in case it was raided.

    Funny how someone such as Slater who actually had physical stolen property in the form of a Hard drive and a file cabinet of documents in his possession never received the same treatment of a raid.

    Only one officer is apparently assigned to that case and I think I read they are on holiday at the moment.

    I’m curious also why Slater has not yet been back before the courts over not having given up the names of the people who gave him that property.

    • RRM 6.1

      Well if Nicky Hager said he no longer has them, then that must be true; Nicky Hager’s word is unimpeachable, because he’s Nicky Hager!

  7. Kevin Welsh 7

    Maybe the whole objective was to find out about what he is writing about now rather than anything to do with what has already been written.

    A nice little smokescreen indeed.

  8. ianmac 8

    I believe that every item seized was receipted, tagged, and sealed under the eyes and insistence of Nicky’s lawyer. Mr Price I think? And will remain sealed until Nicky’s court hearing which will determine whether the police acted within the law and then whether they have the right to trawl through the contents.
    Will be a benchmark with far reaching consequences.

  9. Richard RAWSHARK 9

    The herald opens today with a call for DC’s resignation. Yawn… again..

    but as I read through I spot this beauty

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11340711

    Fran back to her old self? slight possibility, pity it’s all for her own skin but still a reasonable article for once. Perhaps she does have a glimmer of ethics, or perhaps she is more worried about the link to her name exposed by Dirty politics and is getting a good alibi in order, and the fall guys are already going down so they threw her a life jacket saying she didn’t receive/give information with Keys dogs of media war.

    Even Armstrong criticizes English and Key, has the Heralds blue walls started to show a slight crack? Is the light seeping out?

  10. hoom 10

    It was well-known that Hager – like Slater – sees himself as an investigative journalist, experienced in dealing with sensitive information from whistleblowers and political operatives.

    Fuck you Granny Herald that sentence is a disgrace.

    Above anything else, Hager is a fully legit & globally respected for decades real investigative journalist.

    Slater is little more than a well-connected ratbastard.

  11. Dramaticus 11

    Sort of looks like Key, on reflecting after the election, had a pissed off mood about the inconvenience of Dirty Politics and decided to use the police in a very Sunday afternoonish way ,as they say in the old midlands ,”go round and do the little bugger” for upsetting the guv
    God help us from the arrogance of authority that is in question of its actions but feels it has more right than the majority to not be answerable to the nation
    Key should have been gone this election but we all know what happens when sheep get scared in a hill paddock they run to the top corner

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Protect seamounts and ban bottom trawling right now
    The Green Party is renewing its call for Minister for the Environment, David Parker to immediately ban bottom trawling on seamounts. ...
    10 hours ago
  • Building Auckland’s transport future
    We’re making sure Auckland has the infrastructure it needs for the future, so Aucklanders can get around safely and efficiently as our biggest city grows. The new, linked-up transport system we’re building will include partially tunnelled light rail between the CBD and the airport, as well as another Waitematā Harbour ...
    12 hours ago
  • Build Auckland light rail for benefit of everyone
    The Government’s decision on light rail in Auckland is the first step towards building the climate friendly, accessible city our communities deserve. ...
    12 hours ago
  • Put our most vulnerable first
    Don’t forget whānau and communities most at risk, says the Green Party, as the Government lays out its three-phase plan for Omicron. ...
    2 days ago
  • Boosting our immunity against Omicron
    With Omicron in the community, it’s vital we all do our bit to help to slow the spread, keep each other safe and protect our health system. One of the most important ways we can reduce the risk of Omicron is to get a booster dose as soon as we’re ...
    2 days ago
  • Equitable response to Omicron vital
    The Green Party supports the Government’s decision to move Aotearoa New Zealand to traffic light level Red at 11.59pm tonight, but says its success will depend on the support that is made available to the most vulnerable. ...
    5 days ago
  • How we’re preparing for Omicron
    As countries around the world experience Omicron outbreaks, we’re taking steps now to ensure we’re as prepared as possible and our communities are protected. ...
    1 week ago
  • What’s Labour achieved so far?
    Quite a bit! This Government was elected to take on the toughest issues facing Aotearoa – and that’s what we’re doing. Since the start of the pandemic, protecting lives and livelihoods has been a priority, but we’ve also made progress on long-term challenges, to deliver a future the next generation ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Tackling the big issues in 2022
    This year, keeping Kiwis safe from COVID will remain a key priority of the Government – but we’re also pushing ahead on some of New Zealand’s biggest long-term challenges. In 2022, we’re working to get more Kiwis into homes, reduce emissions, lift children out of poverty, and ensure people get ...
    2 weeks ago

  • Tupu Tai graduation-It’s time to step up
    Greetings: Kia orana, talofa lava, Noa’ia e mauri, malo e lelei, taloha ni, fakaalofa lahi atu, ni sa bula vinaka, talofa, kia ora, tena koutou katoa.  I would love to begin by acknowledging everyone here in attendance, especially the families and friends of the 2021/22 Tupu Tai cohort, and those ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Building and shaping a city: Future-proofing Auckland transport infrastructure
    The Government is bringing Auckland’s transport infrastructure into the future by moving forward with an additional Waitematā Harbour crossing, progressing light rail from Auckland’s CBD to the airport, and creating a linked-up rapid transport network as part of a 30-year plan. Key decisions on additional Waitematā Harbour crossing to be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • Penguin rehab and native forest restoration get helping hand
    A long-running penguin rehab facility which has been hard hit by the tourism downturn, and work to restore native forest habitats in the Catlins are being supported through Jobs for Nature funding, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. Otago’s Penguin Place and The Hokonui Rūnanga Catlins Biodiversity Project will receive combined ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Resilient economy reflected in Crown accounts
    The Government’s financial accounts continue to reflect a resilient economy that has performed better than expected and puts the country in a strong position to respond to Omicron, Grant Robertson said. The Crown Accounts for the five months to the end of November were more favourable than forecast in the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government announces three phase public health response to Omicron
    Reducing isolation period for cases and close contacts at Phase Two and Three to 10 and seven days Definition of close contact required to isolate changes to household or household like contacts at Phase Three Increased use of rapid antigen tests with test to return policy put in place for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Ambassador to Thailand announced
    Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta today announced the appointment of Jonathan Kings as New Zealand’s next Ambassador to Thailand. “Aotearoa New Zealand has a long-standing relationship with Thailand, celebrating the 65th anniversary of diplomatic representation between our countries in 2021. We also share much in common at regional and multilateral levels ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government’s Family Package continues to deliver for New Zealanders
    The Families Package helped around 330,000 families in its first year - more than half of all families with children in NZ These families received an estimated $55 per week more from Families Package payments in 2018/19 than in 2017/18, on average Families Package increases to the maximum possible Accommodation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand retains top spot in global anti-corruption rankings
    Justice Minister Kris Faafoi has welcomed news of New Zealand’s ongoing position as top in the world anti-corruption rankings. The 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index released by global anti-corruption organisation, Transparency International, ranks New Zealand first equal with Denmark and Finland, with a score of 88 out of 100. “This is an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Testing improvements see New Zealand well prepared for Omicron
    New Zealand’s PCR testing capacity can be increased by nearly 20,000 tests per day to deal with a surge in cases as part of our wider COVID-19 testing strategy, Associate Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall said. “We have continued to adapt our public health response to safeguard the health ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • 5,000 portable air cleaners for schools on their way
    As schools are preparing to return, Education Minister Chris Hipkins has announced 5,000 air cleaners have been ordered for New Zealand schools. “As we know, along with vaccination, testing, good hygiene and physical distancing, good ventilation is important in minimising the risk of airborne transmission of the virus that causes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand to move to Red from 11.59pm today
    All of New Zealand will move to the Red setting of the Covid Protection Framework (CPF) at 11:59pm today as Omicron is potentially now transmitting in the community, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says. “Nine COVID-19 cases reported yesterday in the Nelson/Marlborough region are now confirmed as Omicron, and a further ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Mandatory boosters for key workforces progressing well
    More than 5,785 (82%) border workers eligible for a booster vaccination at 6 months have received it so far, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. “That’s a really strong uptake considering we announced the requirement the week before Christmas, but we need to continue this momentum,” Chris Hipkins said. “We ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ to move to Red
    Nine COVID-19 cases reported yesterday in the Nelson/Marlborough region have now been confirmed as the Omicron variant, and a further case from the same household was confirmed late yesterday. These cases are in a single family that flew to Auckland on 13 January to attend a wedding and other events ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand to provide further help for Tonga
    Aotearoa New Zealand is giving an additional $2 million in humanitarian funding for Tonga as the country recovers from a volcanic eruption and tsunami last weekend, Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta and Defence Minister Peeni Henare said today. This brings Aotearoa New Zealand’s contribution to $3 million. “This support will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Quarterly benefit numbers show highest number of exits into work
    The Government’s strong focus on supporting more people into work is reflected in benefit figures released today which show a year-on-year fall of around 21,300 people receiving a main benefit in the December 2021 quarter, Minister for Social Development and Employment Carmel Sepuloni said. “Our response to COVID has helped ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Northland to move to Orange, NZ prepared for Omicron 
    Northland to move to Orange Rest of New Zealand stays at Orange in preparedness for Omicron All of New Zealand to move into Red in the event of Omicron community outbreak – no use of lockdowns Govt planning well advanced – new case management, close contact definition and testing rules ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • RNZAF C-130 Hercules flight departs for Tonga as Navy vessels draw nearer to Tongatapu
    A Royal New Zealand Air Force C-130 Hercules has departed Base Auckland Whenuapai for Tonga carrying aid supplies, as the New Zealand aid effort ramps up, Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta and Defence Minister Peeni Henare said today. “The aircraft is carrying humanitarian aid and disaster relief supplies, including water ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand prepared to send support to Tonga
    New Zealand is ready to assist Tonga in its recovery from Saturday night’s undersea eruption and tsunami, Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta and Defence Minister Peeni Henare said today. “Following the successful surveillance and reconnaissance flight of a New Zealand P-3K2 Orion on Monday, imagery and details have been sent ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Aotearoa New Zealand stands ready to assist people of Tonga
    The thoughts of New Zealanders are with the people of Tonga following yesterday’s undersea volcanic eruption and subsequent tsunami waves, Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta says. “Damage assessments are under way and New Zealand has formally offered to provide assistance to Tonga,” said Nanaia Mahuta. New Zealand has made an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Record high of new homes consented continues
    In the year ended November 2021, 48,522 new homes were consented, up 26 per cent from the November 2020 year. In November 2021, 4,688 new dwellings were consented. Auckland’s new homes consented numbers rose 25 per cent in the last year. Annual figures for the last nine months show more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Report trumpets scope for ice cream exports
    Latest research into our premium ice cream industry suggests exporters could find new buyers in valuable overseas markets as consumers increasingly look for tip top quality in food. Economic Development Minister Stuart Nash has released a new report for the Food and Beverage Information Project. The project is run by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Honouring the legacy of legendary kaumātua Muriwai Ihakara
    Associate Minister for Arts, Culture, and Heritage Kiri Allan expressed her great sadness and deepest condolences at the passing of esteemed kaumātua, Muriwai Ihakara. “Muriwai’s passing is not only a loss for the wider creative sector but for all of Aotearoa New Zealand. The country has lost a much beloved ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Have your say on proposed changes to make drinking water safer
    Associate Minister for the Environment Kiri Allan is urging all New Zealanders to give feedback on proposed changes aimed at making drinking water safer. “The current regulations are not fit for purpose and don’t offer enough protection, particularly for those whose water comes from smaller supplies,” Kiri Allan said. “This ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago