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Open Mike 06/07/25

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 6th, 2025 - 74 comments
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74 comments on “Open Mike 06/07/25 ”

  1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1
    6 July 2025 at 8:22 am

    Suffer the children…..

    Many children suffering ongoing Covid symptoms

    Associate Professor Julie Bennett, from the university's Department of Public Health, said long-term symptoms could affect children's ability to participate in daily activities and attend school.

    Larisa Hockey, of Long Covid Kids New Zealand, said the findings showed Covid-19 had had a "measurable and ongoing impact" on the health of many children.

    "There is strong evidence that preventing infection is key to preventing Long Covid. Children deserve every opportunity to grow up healthy and thrive, and that includes protecting them from preventable long-term illness.

    "Long Covid is having a significant impact on children's lives and those of family members."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/566072/many-children-suffering-ongoing-covid-symptoms

    Antivaxx Influencers..Mumfluencers. Did/do they think?

    'It's like a cult': How anti-vaccine "mumfluencers" are fuelling the Parliament occupation

    “It’s exhausting to watch,” says doctor Morgan Edwards, as she drives across Auckland to work at a city hospital. “You follow these kinds of pages and you think it’s about kids or nutrition and the next minute they’re saying don’t get vaccinated, because they’ll sell you supplements to fight off the toxins instead.”

    But it also drew attention to a more insidious facet of the anti-vaccine campaign: that the primary targets of both the influencers – and therefore the vaccine misinformation – are mums.

    “This is because when it comes to children’s health generally – and vaccinations specifically – mothers tend to be perceived as the primary caregivers,” wrote researchers in a study into anti-vax influencer behaviour released on Tuesday.

    Mackie says the largest (and most well-resourced) anti-vaccine group in New Zealand, the female-led Voices For Freedom, deliberately set out to target mums more than a year ago, before vaccines for children were even on the radar.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300520631/its-like-a-cult-how-antivaccine-mumfluencers-are-fuelling-the-parliament-occupation

    Misguided?….Dangerous? To children, some who did not have a choice.

    Reply
    • Ad 1.1
      6 July 2025 at 9:07 am

      It's Maori and rural communities that have the clearest declines in vaccination rates.

      I'd suggest more to do with the long term failure of the public health system for them, than a few loons.

      Reply
      • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.1
        6 July 2025 at 9:18 am

        "A few loons" ? Well, thats your opinion. Did you read any of the links? Particularly V.F.F? Massively funded mis/disinformation.

        However….I do respect Mountain Tui : )

        Reply
        • Ad 1.1.1.1
          6 July 2025 at 12:25 pm

          Forget the source noise and check the facts.

          NZ Maori and rural people have the declining vaccination rates here.

          Reply
      • Incognito 1.1.2
        7 July 2025 at 8:45 pm

        The main ‘failing’, if you like to point fingers, is the decline in trust across the board (incl. health experts). This is the major damage that the loons have achieved or at least contributed to.

        Reply
  2. Phillip ure 2
    6 July 2025 at 8:43 am

    Looking at the ideological range of labour leaders…IMHO you would have hipkins and starmer sitting pretty much next to each other..

    Both incrementalist…both in the 'centre'..

    So we should be paying attention to what has happened to the ideological compatriot of hipkins…

    Starmer was elected a year ago..with a record majority ..

    Polling now has him falling through the floor…

    My takeaway from this is that the labour rank and file in nz must be staunch against the incrementalist tendencies of hipkins..

    And the fate of starmer shows that not being the other lot is not enough .and not offering true reform/change..will have hipkins..if elected… suffering a similar fate to starmer/the British labour party…

    I feel that in our upcoming election…policy will be king ..

    Those who can show the hows/whys/where's of significant reform ..and how this will change our lives for the better..

    These are the parties that will capture the imagination of those voters wanting that change..

    Reply
    • Ad 2.1
      6 July 2025 at 9:04 am

      Labour UK has done tonnes, and the primary takeaway from their declining popularity is social media has made everyone unrealistically impatient, and government is hard.

      Hipkins will find the same thing here if he gets to form a government.

      It would help his supporters if he believed in something, or anything.

      Reply
      • Phillip ure 2.1.1
        6 July 2025 at 9:16 am

        I understand that part of starmers problem is that he has been trying to kiss Tory arse by doing welfare-reform…which was going to take money away from those most in need .

        Backbench rebellions have had limited success. .

        Starmer has given incrementalist/centrist labour leaders a bad name…bordering on a bad smell….

        I hope the labour rank and file are taking note of this…and will drive labour to be more democratic-socialist in their upcoming policies…the other way lies starmer…

        (I guess hipkins/labour could just dust off those promises on child poverty/homelessness etc etc that j.ardern made ..and promise to actually do them this time…that would work .)

        Reply
  3. Patricia Bremner 3
    6 July 2025 at 8:44 am

    Yes. I have been reading that article and Mountain Tui's report on the huge Russian influence through bots on the web, pulling people towards conspiracy during Covid lockdowns and the aftermath.

    Reply
  4. bwaghorn 4
    6 July 2025 at 9:05 am

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/what-you-need-to-know/566017/why-do-the-government-s-carbon-auctions-keep-failing-and-does-it-matter

    The bloody ets needs fixing or ditching.

    My extremely amateur attempt is to remove the ability to hoard credits, use m or lose them, and a hard defending cap on the amount of them , I belive bill of the the standard used to advocate for a cap and trade system

    Reply
    • Ad 4.1
      6 July 2025 at 9:08 am

      Has this system decreased NZs CO2 or methane emissions?

      Reply
      • bwaghorn 4.1.1
        6 July 2025 at 9:21 am

        Just had another trawl through the article (it's very long for my chaotic brain) and couldn't see it but either there or somewhere else in the last day or 2 I read 2% down is about where where at I'm picking closing 3 big mills would probably achieve that.

        Reply
      • weka 4.1.2
        6 July 2025 at 11:44 am

        yes, but not enough to address our involvement and culpability in AGW.

        Reply
        • Ad 4.1.2.1
          6 July 2025 at 12:33 pm

          Give a factual citation.

          Reply
          • weka 4.1.2.1.1
            6 July 2025 at 2:54 pm

            this was in my twitter feed this morning, click through for the graphics,

            1/3 The biggest news story of the week hasn’t been covered in NZ’s media, even tho it concerns our neighbourhood. The Southern Meridional Overturning Circulation is the southern equivalent of the Gulf Stream. SMOC has changed direction. The consequences could be calamitous.

            2/2 SMOC flows off Antarctica. Its reversal is bringing warmer, carbon-rich water to the surface, which will speed up the melting of ice & global warming. It’s another nail in the coffin of our civilisation.

            https://x.com/SikotiHamiltonR/status/1941500371979075827

            You can go look up the research and discussion on this. I see this kind of warning and discussion all the time in various feeds. That's the evidence for the seriousness of the situation. At which point, people can go one of two ways:

            1. that the long, bureaucratic processes of IPCC, NGOs and governments will suffice. They use % chances of keeping GW under 1.5C and % chances of that being enough. This is what NIWA, NZ gov, etc are basing policy on.
            2. that the model is only one of a range, and the ones further to the collapse scenario are increasingly supported by climate scientists and other people from an informed place. They say 1.5 is gone, and we are now in a period of great uncertainty as tipping points render unreal the idea that climate change is a long slow process. This can be read about in places like the Guardian all the time, don't even have to listen to the deep green nutters. There are also plenty of posts on TS from a range of authors. Or get a twitter account and follow the climate science community.

            The upshot of that is that no-one is doing enough. Had everyone acted in the 90s on GHG emissions, we probably had a fair chance at 'enough'. Many have been saying for the last 10 years it's not too late and there is still a window in which to act, but that window is now much smaller and the options much harder. Further, because everyone, including NZ, has dragged the chain, we're all going to have to do more. Turns out nature is a finite landscape.

            NZ has a scheme that's a mongrel from successive governments, including ones that deny the climate crisis (NZF, Nat, ACT). Shaw managed to get the infrastructure of a good response in place, but you yourself argue that farming governs the country, so why am I even having to explain this?

            A lot of really good work has been done and will hold us in good stead if we take the leap. But saying it's enough is like saying we rearranged our few deck chairs on the Titanic, oh well, we did our bit.

            Anyhoo, feel free to argue we are doing enough, but here's a quick google on NZ obligations IPCC

            https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=57b274cc43acabb4&q=nz+obligations+ipcc&tbm=nws&source=lnms&fbs=AIIjpHxU7SXXniUZfeShr2fp4giZrjP_Cx0LI1Ytb_FGcOviEiTm5uW1q0uNfK7KsnoL8hUyUYUJLZ_b-p0lT09DIkR7RtNt-9R1f9Pbq4mdMMyxSelEHHADgzBCNx7-1ORi0KL6PmuZlhCdFkfC14rwu1hVYz7VaOyiNZ1fR3MRh37FnT1xKvvetQpGv6CeYusk3UW5R7062AE1WaM4vJA2CkZ6VOjUqg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwje7P_5nKeOAxX01jgGHQjvKvoQ0pQJKAF6BAgTEAE&biw=1216&bih=688&dpr=2.22

            Reply
          • bwaghorn 4.1.2.1.2
            6 July 2025 at 5:27 pm

            Just done a bit of googling and even ai seems incapable of telling me what our reduction has been to date, just lots of hopy dreamy stuff, kinda tells me it'd be sweet fa, ad I'm sure if the ets actually achieved anything it'd be getting heralded from every street corner

            Reply
    • weka 4.2
      6 July 2025 at 11:48 am

      cap and trade is theoretically useful, but only with an internationally agreed sinking cap which we don't have. Instead the evil robber barons created a system that made them money and fucked the global response to climate change. Story of Stuff explainer from 15 years ago,

      https://youtu.be/pA6FSy6EKrM?si=ekvlVTO4emDfqR1M

      NZ could be leading on this, and James Shaw tried his best, but the voting population don't consider the climate crisis to be a big enough problem to prioritise.

      On the upside, a lot of good work has been done, and if we voted in a government that took it seriously, we could transition to an economy that both reduces GHGs fast and builds as much adaptation resiliency as we can. Won’t look anything like what we have now, and farming in particular would have to undergo substantial philosophical change.

      Reply
      • The Chairman 4.2.1
        6 July 2025 at 12:28 pm

        IMO, one of the reasons why the voting population don't consider the climate crisis to be a big enough problem is they are of the opinion the big polluting nations aren't doing their bit and New Zealand alone can't prevent it.

        Reply
        • Ad 4.2.1.1
          6 July 2025 at 12:37 pm

          Our block is that our farming lobby has more political power than Parliament. Term after term they win.

          Reply
        • Drowsy M. Kram 4.2.1.2
          6 July 2025 at 2:20 pm

          Global warming is an existential crisis, i.e. pretty big, but for Luxon "it's a case of slower to go faster." A(t)las, our CoC's 'strategy' is rated " Highly Insufficient ".

          https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/new-zealand/

          The climate wins that will outlast James Shaw – and his regrets
          [6 Feb 2024]
          Despite what’s stuck, Shaw said the Government’s repeal of carbon-cutting policies had been hard to watch.

          Consider the CoC's actions to date, and the stated aims of their far right faction – ACT wants to repeal the Zero Carbon Act – Cha-Ching!!!

          New Zealand government sued over ‘dangerously inadequate’ emissions reduction plan [The Guardian, amended 11 June 2025]
          The government’s plan was “fundamentally unambitious” and a “dangerous regression” for the country, Jessica Palairet, the executive director of Lawyers for Climate Action NZ told the Guardian.
          …
          Since taking office, the government has promised to restart offshore oil and has set aside $200m of its budget to invest in gas exploration. It plans to boost mineral exports to $3bn by 2035, at the same time it has slashed funding to conservation and climate initiatives. The controversial new fast-track law that is pushing through major infrastructure projects, including mining, has been described as “egregiously damaging” for the environment and risks a path towards a greener future.

          Our CoC govt has put NZ on a “day-to-day survival” track – we’re NActered.

          Human wellbeing on a finite planet towards 2100: new study shows humanity at a crossroads [4 July 2025]
          The modelling results suggests that rising inequality and environmental degradation fuel social tensions, which in turn reduce governments' capacity to implement the long-term policies needed to address existential risks linked to climate change and other planetary boundaries.

          Reply
        • weka 4.2.1.3
          6 July 2025 at 2:33 pm

          IMO, one of the reasons why the voting population don't consider the climate crisis to be a big enough problem is they are of the opinion the big polluting nations aren't doing their bit and New Zealand alone can't prevent it.

          That's a myth, which you should be able to dispel easily enough. It's been explained in lots of different ways by different people including political leaders.

          If people think that, perhaps the people like yourself who have perpetuated the myth are culpable.

          To be very blunt, if NZ citizens believe we have no obligation to lead on climate because we are a smaller country, those people are essentially saying that it's ok to destroy the biosphere and collapse civ and kill millions of people so long as it doesn't happen to me. That's incredibly fucked up. It's also probably not true, NZ won't be immune from collapse, resource wars, mass immigration, crop failure, food shortages, extreme weather events and so on, although we are definitely one of the better countries to be in.

          Reply
          • The Chairman 4.2.1.3.1
            6 July 2025 at 8:43 pm

            What's a myth?

            The opinion big polluting nations aren't doing their bit?

            Or New Zealand can't prevent it alone?

            Reply
            • Drowsy M. Kram 4.2.1.3.1.1
              6 July 2025 at 9:25 pm

              The contradictory myths CoC MPs are desperately trying to sell Kiwis are that NZ is doing its bit – punching above its weight; boxing clever even – and that whether or not NZ does its bit makes no diff, so we may as well not bother.

              Consider the CoC’s actions to date, and the stated aims of their far right faction – ACT wants to repeal the Zero Carbon Act – Cha-Ching!!!

              The Trump administration has entered Stage 5 climate denial
              [8 Oct 2018]
              If we’re already doomed to disastrous climate change, then there’s no reason to cut carbon pollution, argues the Trump administration

              Reply
            • weka 4.2.1.3.1.2
              7 July 2025 at 9:35 am

              What's a myth?

              The opinion big polluting nations aren't doing their bit?

              Or New Zealand can't prevent it alone?

              That NZ is too small to make a difference. It only works if we all do our bit. If the big polluters come on board say in five years time and all the smaller nations have been saying we'll wait until everyone else goes, then we're in a much worse situation than if we act better now. The smaller nations added up account for 1/4 to a 1/3 of global emissions, we're not talking insignificant amounts.

              If we want to take a self-interested position,, then the more we do now the less likely we are to be invaded for our resources, and/or overrun with refugees.

              NZ has very high per capital emissions, as well as a high ecological footprint. As I said, the only way to consciously choose to not do anything is if one is willing to let the future burn and damn those people.

              Reply
          • The Chairman 4.2.1.3.2
            6 July 2025 at 8:59 pm

            Do you have any ideas why the voting population don't consider the climate crisis to be a big enough problem to prioritise?

            Reply
      • Ad 4.2.2
        6 July 2025 at 12:35 pm

        In 2017 the NZ voting public protested for climate change by the hundred thousand strong.

        Post-COVID economic recession has made us all much harder, more focused on day to day survival.

        Reply
        • The Chairman 4.2.2.1
          6 July 2025 at 1:11 pm

          Yep.

          Reply
        • Phillip ure 4.2.2.2
          6 July 2025 at 1:47 pm

          I think it is more they had the expectations their massive show of support for action on climate change…would inspire the politicians…

          And a scam for the rich like the ets (that nobody can understand)..and s f.a. else..just wasn't enough..

          Disillusionment with politicians..and the futility of that big march…

          ..that is what has them at home…not the cost of living crisis..

          They can walk and chew gum at the same time…

          And they have long memories…

          I think your conclusion is simplistic…and wrong ..

          ..

          Reply
          • The Chairman 4.2.2.2.1
            6 July 2025 at 10:04 pm

            Yep (re disillusionment with politicians). I can see how some would feel that way.

            Reply
            • Drowsy M. Kram 4.2.2.2.1.1
              6 July 2025 at 10:21 pm

              I'm most disillusioned with the CoC's self-serving MPs who are preparing more of the commons for privatisation – everything must grow Grow GO!!!

              ACT = Defend Division by Wealth

              Regulatory Standards Bill under fire for limiting Parliament’s sovereignty [19 June 2025]
              “In a lake stocked with minnows and minnow-eating pike, freedom for the pike means death to the minnows.” Isaiah Berlin was warning us to be wary of occasions when the rich [sorted] and powerful seek greater freedom. They already have a great deal of freedom, usually a lot more than the rest of us.

              How about you – which politicians (if any) are you most disillusioned with, and why, or are they all as bad as each other?

              Reply
              • The Chairman …
                7 July 2025 at 3:45 pm

                I commend the Greens for putting forward their alternative budget.

                And respect their flexibility in being open to discussion and making changes in regards with it.

                That's a sign of being willing to bring the public along. And we need more of that.

                National, ACT and NZ First are largely taking the country the wrong way.

                And Labour have yet to announce their full policy package (but I'm sure it will disappoint) robbing them from being a truly effective lead opposition party. As they can't point to what they will do differently.

                Reply
                • Drowsy M. Kram …
                  7 July 2025 at 7:13 pm

                  National, ACT and NZ First are largely taking the country the wrong way.

                  Largely is right – serving up the commons to the sorted big-time.

                  As they [the NZ Labour party] can't point to what they will do differently.

                  They'll repeal the RegulaTory Standards Bill (a CoC done deal), so that's different, and not only that.

                  There are no rules any more. The political pendulum is now a wrecking ball [6 July 2025]

                  "The National-led coalition has taken an axe to much of Labour's record… Since the election they have repealed more than 20 major laws and reforms" [and then Vance describes them]

                  Hang on a minute – National/Act/NZF's constant refrain has been that Labour didn't deliver anything. Don't tell me they have been telling porkies.

                  https://thestandard.org.nz/open-6-7-25/#comment-2037966

                  For a [Labour] government that delivered nothing, a lot of parliamentary urgency has been spent undoing it.

                  https://thestandard.org.nz/open-6-7-25/#comment-2038040

                  Hmm, that being so, I'm left to wonder why do you continue to imply that Labour don't do things differently to NAct. Yep, that's a right puzzle…

                  Reply
        • weka 4.2.2.3
          6 July 2025 at 2:37 pm

          In 2017 the NZ voting public protested for climate change by the hundred thousand strong.

          In 2017 NZ voters put a Labour/NZF government in power, which was not progressive on climate and is a large part of why we are in our current situation.

          Yes, the pandemic and recession are real, potent forces in people's lives. But climate collapse is still on the horizon. I don't have kids, but for the life of me cannot understand how anyone with kids and grandkids isn't doing everything they can on climate.

          Yes, a big chunk of people are struggling, some very badly, but there is still a large middle class in NZ that is still well resourced, and we are very wealthy country.

          Reply
          • Bearded Git 4.2.2.3.1
            6 July 2025 at 7:30 pm

            That's true Weka….I saw a table of the GDP per person the other day and NZ was well up there….close or better than some Euro nations …higher than Spain. (Oz was really high).

            (Can't post table sorry ….travelling and in noisy pub rather than on my PC at home)

            Reply
            • weka 4.2.2.3.1.1
              6 July 2025 at 8:06 pm

              we also have a pretty high ecological footprint, well over the one planet we all need to live within.

              Reply
    • gsays 4.3
      6 July 2025 at 6:34 pm

      A related thought.

      It occurs to me that those that are indifferent to CC/AGW or see it as a fiction would use a fictional, indifferent solution. eg a Carbon Market. Use a easily manipulated financial tool.

      Makes it look like you've been busy at least.

      Reply
  5. Ad 5
    6 July 2025 at 9:13 am

    With Musk forming the America Party, let's see if he can force the split like Ross Perot did back in the day.

    Will go a lot further than that feckless nitwit who used to run UK Labour trying to form his own wee splinter party.

    Reply
    • Bearded Git 5.1
      6 July 2025 at 7:38 pm

      I think Corbyn is forming his new party largely to demonstrate how crap FPP is.

      He certainly owes Starmer nothing after his failure to help to protect Corbyn from the groundless anti-Semitic accusations.

      Reply
      • Nic the NZer 5.1.1
        6 July 2025 at 8:14 pm

        Why on earth would Starmer ever protect Corbyn from the left wing purge he was involved in?

        Reply
  6. ianmac 6
    6 July 2025 at 9:27 am

    Andrea Vance has written a stunning piece in the Press today. She has condemned the slaughter of the actions of destruction of this Government and lists the items of destruction.

    The political pendulum doesn’t swing. Instead, wrecking ball politics now smashes through the written and unwritten codes that once held together democracy.

    Bit dramatic, eh. But bear with me.

    It used to be that centrist-ish governments would inch reforms forward, careful to win consensus, to withstand the next election cycle. The aim was endurance — laws designed to outlive their architects and even anchor policy for a generation.

    That era is so over.

    Now governing is a zero-sum game. Legislation is drafted to provoke, not to last.

    Reforms are rushed, repealed, rewritten — then reversed again….

    https://www.thepress.co.nz/a/politics/360744335/there-are-no-rules-any-more-political-pendulum-now-wrecking-ball?lid=fqs7ddpgolgs&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=press_wday_20250706

    Reply
    • Phillip ure 6.1
      6 July 2025 at 9:33 am

      Great to see 'eh' lurching into the mainstream media ..tho it does usually come with a ?….as in ‘eh?’..

      Reply
    • Bearded Git 6.2
      6 July 2025 at 10:42 am

      "The National-led coalition has taken an axe to much of Labour's record….Since the election they have repealed more than 20 major laws and reforms" (and then Vance describes them)

      Hang on a minute-National/Act/NZF's constant refrain has been that Labour didn't deliver anything. Don't tell me they have been telling porkies.

      Reply
    • Ad 6.3
      6 July 2025 at 12:44 pm

      Good on her.

      Though I'd've given credit to Mahuta for working so diligently to generate public and civil society mandate for water reforms. Also Ardern for gun control reforms.

      Reply
  7. Steven NIc 7
    6 July 2025 at 10:51 am

    In the spirit of openness and transparency espoused by our current government, I wrote a letter to the editor of my local newspaper.

    i suggested the newspaper introduces a monthly summary of issues at our local hospital. The number of days the A & E were at Code red due to too many patients. The number of operations performed in house. The number of operations outsourced to Private Hospitals. The number of medical staff vacancies by classification; Senior Medical Staff, Radiologists, Specialists, Locums, Nurses etc. The number of staff leaving for Australia and elsewhere. As this need only be numbers with no names, there cannot be any privacy issues.

    I urge others of you to do the same.

    [lprent: Please stick to a single handle / ’email’. Otherwise the moderators have to let it through each time you change either. If you want to change either, then point out in the comment that the change is deliberate and not incompetence, so the moderators let it through. But we get irritated if you do it more than once.

    I have changed your handle to the previous one you used. ]

    Reply
    • Res Publica 7.1
      6 July 2025 at 11:09 am

      Cool idea: but Goodhart’s Law is a thing.

      All it would do is encourage hospitals to game the system rather than increase performance.

      Reply
  8. joe90 8
    6 July 2025 at 1:24 pm

    Tl,dr; racism and rugged individualism lead to intergenerational poverty.

    .

    /

    The geographies of upward mobility show U.S. regions that emphasize investments in the common good over economic libertarianism do better

    The United States has long been called the “land of opportunity,” but it’s a big country. Geographically, this July 4, where are those places of opportunity?

    At Nationhood Lab, the project I run at Salve Regina University’s Pell Center, we decided to find out. We revisited the results of a classic study on intergenerational upward mobility by Harvard economist Raj Chetty and his colleagues. Using anonymized Internal Revenue Service tax data, Chetty’s group found substantial regional differences in how much more a kid raised in a low-income family would be making when they reached the end of their twenties. The Southeastern U.S. performed worst, the Northeast, West Coast, and Great Plains best, a finding that prompted the researchers to wonder out loud why this was the case. “We hope that future research will be able to shed light on this question by using the mobility statistics constructed here,” they wrote.

    We thought we’d see what would happen when running Chetty et al.’s data through the American Nations model, which defines cultural regions via rival settlement patterns as far back as the 17th Century and the ideological and cultural characteristics they imparted on different parts of the North American continent.

    https://washingtonmonthly.com/2025/07/04/this-july-4-where-is-americas-land-of-opportunity/

    Reply
    • weka 9.1
      6 July 2025 at 5:32 pm

      well fuck.

      Reply
    • PsyclingLeft.Always 9.2
      6 July 2025 at 5:44 pm

      Maybe exhaustion/temporary ? 89 Years.

      Although, we have his Senior, another David : 99..Not out !

      David Attenborough: Ocean comes out on the beloved presenter's 99th birthday, and it's a furious call to arms

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/life/screens/tv/david-attenborough-s-ocean-a-furious-call-to-arms

      Reply
    • Bearded Git 9.3
      6 July 2025 at 7:50 pm

      Shame…still on the plus side it means I can revert to hedonism ….drinking hazy IPA and Cab Sauv till I burn…like the bond traders and other financial wallies that caused the GFC in 2008

      Reply
    • Drowsy M. Kram 9.4
      7 July 2025 at 9:59 am

      That's a compelling interview and a quick read – thanks for sharing.

      Economic growth, which is the driving force of politics and business, is what determines our fate.
      …
      Now, it is too late.

      I’ve never said this before to the media, but it’s too late. I say that because I go by science and Johan Rockström, the Swedish scientist who heads the Potsdam Institute, has defined nine planetary boundaries. These are constraints on how we live. As long as humans, like any other animal, live within those nine constraints, we can do it forever, and that includes the amount of carbon in the atmosphere, the pH of the oceans, the amount of available fresh water, the nitrogen cycle, etc.

      There are nine planetary boundaries and we’ve only dealt with one of them — the ozone layer — and we think we’ve saved ourselves from that threat. But we passed the seventh boundary this year, and we’re in the extreme danger zone. Rockström says we have five years to get out of the danger zone.

      If we pass one boundary, we should be shitting our pants. We’ve passed seven!
      …
      You say we’re too late to address climate change? That’s a pretty stark quote. Does that mean you’re giving up on the fight?

      I’m not giving up on the immediate years, but the focus on politics, economics, and law are all destined to fail because they are based around humans. They’re designed to guide humans, but we’ve left out the foundation of our existence, which is nature, clean air, pure water, rich soil, food, and sunlight. That’s the foundation of the way we live and, when we construct legal, economic and political systems, they have to be built around protecting those very things, but they’re not.
      …
      Look, I’m not giving up in the sense of not doing anything, but Trump’s election was the dagger in my heart. Trump’s win was the triumph of capitalism and neoliberalism, and he’s going to wreak havoc.
      …
      Governments will not be able to respond on the scale or speed that is needed for these emergencies, so Finland is telling their citizens that they’re going to be at the front line of whatever hits and better be sure you’re ready to meet it.

      Reply
    • Hunter Thompson II 9.5
      7 July 2025 at 11:32 am

      He obviously read Shane Jones's comment "goodbye Freddie Frog".

      That would depress anyone.

      Reply
  10. gsays 10
    6 July 2025 at 3:01 pm

    So… you agree with the post and the points made, why the bug up yr arse?

    Do Eugene pooh in yr lunchbox or something?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    Reply
  11. gsays 11
    6 July 2025 at 3:27 pm

    I'm aware that the theme of OM today is CC but here we go anyway…

    A report from the provinces: I went over Te Ahu Turanga (Manawatu Gorge replacement road/Tararua Manawatu Road) today with a couple of buddies on motorbikes. (A Harley Fergusson, a BMW R1100 and a Zero DSR.)

    It is fantastic. By bending a couple of road rules, roundabout to roundabout at each end 6 minutes. Compared to up to 20 mins via the saddle. It will be transformational to the region especially the Tararua. Legitimately able to live in Woodville/Pahiatua and work in Palmy/Feilding. The hospital and UCOL/Massey are a stress free commute away.

    And before y'all get yr pitchforks sharpened, there is a walking/cycling track either side that is getting very well used.

    In case anyone is interested, I have taken delivery of the Zero DSR, electric motorbike. 14.4kwh battery, 52 kw (70hp) motor and 116 lb-ft (157 Nm) of torque. Top speed of 160kph. That last stat wont occur with me in the saddle. I'm about 40kgs too heavy for that to happen.

    Definitely more of a commuter than a tourer but hell of a fun to ride with more toe than a Roman sandal.

    Reply
  12. SPC 12
    6 July 2025 at 8:04 pm

    In 1970 Milton Friedman famously wrote in the New York Times that an executive pursuing social responsibility would reduce returns to shareholders, raise prices to customers and lower the wages of some employees.

    It seems that Friedman had neither a concept of brand, nor marketing.

    A company like McDonnell Douglas might go so far as to undermine the reputation of its planes and then survive via merger with Boeing … and do the same there.

    Another might compromise worker safety, or the well being of the environment (from water to air safety) and face class action suits.

    Others might focus on a transfer of production to offshore places where no corporate responsibility was expected.

    And the era of greater share of wealth was with the shareholder than the worker might have consequences for the society in which this occurred.

    What he was really saying is that those with an interest (invested wealth) in the aggregate capital have a common cause in blocking social responsibility being expected of corporates.

    And this to nations.

    Those who quote Friedman do so to ask us to expect no more of the corporate than greed and say this right.

    It is a libertarian concept and it is an apologetic for the corporate getting its way. While
    the writer does not mention that RSB, nor the Paris Accord, this is the context in which he writes.

    Social responsibility … was a popular way for executives to appear virtuous while spending their shareholder’s money, and that “…taken seriously would extend the scope of the political mechanism to every human activity. It does not differ from the most explicitly collectivist doctrine

    Libertarians refer to corporates larger than countries as individuals and refer to the public good as a collective threatening the wee profit centred entity.

    Friedman went further, claiming that there is only one social responsibility of business “…to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits so long as it stays within the rules of the game, which is to say, engages in open and free competition without deception or fraud”.

    Friedman was against the corporate having a public minded focus.

    The Chicago University economist was campaigning against business leaders voluntarily engaging in acts of moral worthiness with other people’s resources, but today we face a more pernicious evil; state mandated virtue.

    Extremists, as per ACT, go further they resent public imposition on the corporate.

    Minimum wages, rights of unions to organise, environment protection etc etc

    Without any evidence he infers that a nation with a higher GDP per capita does so because it has no time for state minded mandates

    The Netherlands is part of the EU.

    The climate reports are a symptom of a wider malaise. Of a bureaucratic class that do not consider the cost of a policy against the proposed benefit and a political establishment unwilling to challenge pubic servants and their progressive agendas.

    The RSB is of a design to require the bureaucrat to subordinate the policy process to the personal property right of the corporate, to come do what it wants and leave with as much profit as possible.

    New Zealand has become trapped in a malaise of wanting to be seen to do good at the expense of achieving anything.

    He claims success is based on not giving, or being required to, give a damn about others.

    He does not want "New Zealand" to achieve, he wants the corporate to thrive (and with the government leaving the Paris Accord). A higher GDP can occur while wealth goes to fewer of its people and many struggle to afford their cost of living. The wealthy may not give a damn about that.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/360746226/damien-grant-why-climate-change-reporting-achieving-nothing

    Reply

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