Open mike 01/06/2019

192 comments on “Open mike 01/06/2019 ”

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1. WeTheBleeple 1

   1 June 2019 at 7:26 am

   I thought it mighty clever of the weather to turn to Winter overnight. Sitting pretty here in a house of brick. It wasn't always so easy.

   Let's hear it for a budget tackling homelessness, let's hear it for a government trying to address mental health.

   Sleep.

   I spent parts of winter sleeping half at night, half in the day. This was in order to cope with the cold. From cars to windowless squats, beneath bridges and basements abandoned; the houses of homelessness are cold.

   To sleep it helped to be inebriated so one's body (and head) would allow you some sleep. I'd curl up in a foetal position with covers over my head to recirculate the warm air, and hands tucked between my legs to try get them warm. It was enough for a while and I'd drift off, but by around 4 a.m. either my reserves or the temperature had dropped sufficiently that it woke me.

   There were several hours till dawn and though many preferred to stay down, shivering as temperatures bottomed out, I had to move.

   Morning calisthenics. 4 a.m. drills for the idle unemployed. Press ups, squats, burpees. Soon I'd be warm enough to stop shivering, warm enough that the ringing in my ears would subside, warm enough to roll a smoke without tearing the paper in half. The burning coal of a cigarette cupped in the palms of my hands.

   I'd march. Off to the parks, to the coast and the dunes. Under lupins and round the river mouths. In the places fungi grew in abundance. Magical fungi, munchable fungi. From the city to the fields and back again.

   We ate fungi, watercress, seafood, rustled sheep, pilfered fruit, garden raids, dumpster diving and homeless handouts. We never thought about how we were homeless, we were surviving. Mental health, abuse, alcoholism, addiction, abandonment. It was all there, and it was all intertwined. We absolved ourselves with three Fuck You's and a bottle of grog.

   A portion of us were typically in prison. This was normal. Some were locked up for stealing liquor, others robbing chemists; I for picking mushrooms and growing weed. Whatever it takes means different things to different people, and survival trumped law in most cases. As society had done to us the things that were done to us, then fuck society. We would look after ourselves.

   We were divided in attitudes between those of us who wanted to change the world, and those who wanted to burn it all down. There's too much time to think when you are homeless. To feel purpose it helps if one can move purposefully. To live amongst the hopeless it requires a special kind of strength to even dare to dream. We were young and we still dared, but for many it was a dream.

   Overdose, car accident, murder, life. Slowly they vanished as if they'd never existed. Long forgotten by those purported to love them. Dead.

   The eulogies I wrote were prosaic and deep. It was tragedy and tragedy then tragedy again. Absentee parents wailed soulfully upon the caskets of those they held dear. Too little and too late they'd turn up in their cars. Countenance grave; soft words finally spoken.
   • Dennis Frank 1.1

     1 June 2019 at 7:38 am

     Thanks for sharing that. Such insights into our collective reality are essential, and a helpful antidote to the economic/political spin around the budget, reminding us what it's all about really. And resilience contains emotional intelligence as a social necessity…
   • Higherstandard 1.2

     1 June 2019 at 7:54 am

     That's a stunning piece WTB, thank you for sharing.
   • Muttonbird 1.3

     1 June 2019 at 7:58 am

     Amazing writing. The lampooning of absentee parents is exquisite.
     • WeTheBleeple 1.3.1

       1 June 2019 at 8:01 am

       National are absentee parents. Wailing over the graves they create.
   • RedLogix 1.4

     1 June 2019 at 8:02 am

     Same as Dennis and HS; you've hinted at this before so it's not a surprise. But I am moved by the intensity of it. And not only have you journeyed through that dark, damp land … but you found the path out of it.

     I for one await more of the story, if and when it's time to tell it.
   • francesca 1.5

     1 June 2019 at 8:33 am

     Wonderful writing BLP

     And I want to hear more of this wonderful life
     • mary_a 1.5.1

       1 June 2019 at 10:57 am

       Ditto francesca (1.5)
   • Ad 1.6

     1 June 2019 at 8:37 am

     Nice work there.

     Gives your thoughts context.
   • Macro 1.7

     1 June 2019 at 9:29 am

     I echo all of the sentiments by the rest on here WTB. A wonderful piece, and thank you for sharing. There are a few favourite places here in our town for some to find a bit of shelter. A convenient nook in an alleyway just off the main street makes an ideal spot. It's covered over and reasonably secluded, but it would be a bugger in a westerly! Behind the church is good too and just over the road from the pub. It's also sheltered from the wind and has soft grass. We have around 15 to 20 sleeping really rough here, and are about to get expanded accommodation for those nights when it really is too bad to be unsheltered.
   • Jenny - How to get there?give 1.8

     1 June 2019 at 9:50 am

     WTB if TS don't make you an author, go to TDB. You owe it to all of us.
   • Sacha 1.9

     1 June 2019 at 10:21 am

     Thank you.
   • mary_a 1.10

     1 June 2019 at 10:53 am

     WOW! A brilliant piece of writing WTB (1) … I'd like to say it was a great story. However, the story you told wasn't/isn't so great for far too many Kiwis.

     Thanks for taking the time to share such a raw, gritty expose` of homelessness in NZ, through personal experience.
   • patricia bremner 1.11

     1 June 2019 at 11:14 am

     Lived experience speaks with an authentic voice. Thank you WTB for sharing, for keeping your sense of hope and for recognising the efforts made to change the way budgets are formed. May you enjoy your brick house and the winter warmth your home offers you for the rest of your days. Please write more.
2. Dennis Frank 2

   1 June 2019 at 8:00 am

   Gordon Campbell analyses the European election outcome (http://werewolf.co.nz/2019/05/gordon-campbell-on-europes-non-surrender-to-far-right-extremism/)and here's an interesting section:

   "In Portugal and Spain, the incumbent governments of the centre-left were rewarded by voters. In Spain, voters rejected the far right populist party Vox, which collapsed back to 6% from the 10% high it achieved only a fortnight ago in the Spanish general elections."

   "On the radical left, Podemos saw its support decline to 10%, a sharp fall from the 18% they’d scored in the last European Parliament elections. The decline of Podemos holds a cautionary message for the Green Party in New Zealand. Now that Podemos is no longer an outsider party but is actively propping up the Socialist government of Pedro Sanchez, much of its support has been bleeding back to Sanchez and his PSOE party, which has long been Spain’s neo-liberal Third Way party of the centre-left. In a further blow, radical left mayors in major cities (including the high profile administration of Ada Colau in Barcelona) lost their fights for re-election. In Spain as whole, the radical left is being marginalised by regional parties, and by the Establishment left."

   As a life-long radical, I've always found the radical left amusing. I share their striving to attain an ideal world, while remaining baffled at their reluctance to learn from political experience. It makes no sense for the Greens to marginalise themselves on the extreme left. Too few voters support such idiocy.

   Usually radical leftists reject centrism in favour of ideological purity. They refuse to admit that support for the underdog is more politically potent when it comes from a party that controls the political centre and selects governments. As Winston has proven. The GP needs leaders who are capable of learning the lesson.
   • RedLogix 2.1

     1 June 2019 at 8:05 am

     while remaining baffled at their reluctance to learn from political experience.

     It's less baffling if you contemplate their probable motives, the ones they never speak to directly.
   • KJT 2.2

     1 June 2019 at 11:38 am

     Nonsense. The Greens are about as "Left" as Holyoak.

     Extreme only in your dreams.

     The extremists are those who think business as usual is even possible.
     • Dennis Frank 2.2.1

       1 June 2019 at 1:43 pm

       Nuance. I made no blanket statement re the Greens, just advised against any leftist extremism. There's a ginger group (mainly idealistic youngsters) within the party which formed several years ago to lobby for such positioning. I've seen their spokespeople being explicit in calling for that partisan stance and alignment at our conferences. They are open, honest, and forthright in doing so.

       Add to that is the unending nauseating way media professionals keep depicting the Greens as `to the left of Labour'. Hardly surprising that a popular view of the Greens being wild-eyed radicals has gained currency. Hopelessly unrealistic…
     • Adrian Thornton 2.2.2

       1 June 2019 at 2:56 pm

       @KJT +1 “The extremists are those who think business as usual is even possible.”
   • Adrian Thornton 2.3

     1 June 2019 at 2:49 pm

     You fail to point out that since the emergence of centrist liberalisim as the dominating force in western left wing politics from the late 1970's, what was once just left is now framed as extreme or radical left.

     The reason cenerism should and is being rejected is because it has failed to work, or work for the many and not just the few..or haven't you noticed.

     Go and read WeTheBleeple’s piece at the beginning of today’s open mike, and think about the homeless families living in cars all over NZ, all the working poor in NZ who spend over half their wages on rent, that is free market centerism in action for you.

     Turn Labour Left!
3. Kevin 3

   1 June 2019 at 8:52 am

   Cameron to get a software upgrade:

   https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/31/david-cameron-takes-job-with-us-artificial-intelligence-firm?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
4. Dennis Frank 4

   1 June 2019 at 9:00 am

   Green suit-wearers will be careerists, of course, but doesn't mean inability to grasp the big picture. Here we have the Values schism to teach us that the centrists are essential to the political success of the Green left (if they were able to learn the lesson) whereas in Germany the thirty years war between fundies & realos seems to have been resolved.

   "A surge of support, helped by the Fridays for Future protest movement, propelled Germany's Greens to second place in Sunday's European Parliament elections, at the expense of the mainstream parties. Chancellor Angela Merkel's centre-right CDU/CSU bloc and their ailing junior coalition partners the Social Democrats (SPD) both suffered historic losses after being caught flat-footed on environmental policy."

   https://www.thelocal.de/20190527/the-perfect-storm-germany-feels-heat-of-climate-vote?utm_source=piano&utm_medium=onsite&utm_campaign=71&tpcc=de-just-rhs
   • WeTheBleeple 4.1

     1 June 2019 at 9:40 am

     The thing with all of this thinking, within multiple contexts/systems:

     The edge is where the action occurs. New ideas, new genes, new philosophies.

     The center is where most of the energy resides, but this is mostly used to maintain the status quo, broken or not. There is an illusion in the center, being the 'holders of power', that everything held in check belongs to the center and is of the center's doing.

     But it came from an edge. The refusal to listen to the fringe is everyone's limitation.

     I understand your position in trying to help more fringe lefties gain some ideas for relative longevity and a platform for their positions: but the center swallows the edge, it's very nature being conformity to the center.

     Much better that we allow fringe political players to be their own entities (within reason and civility) as a think-tank for the center – as it has always been, but let's be honest about who's doing all the thinking.

     The people with real problems to solve – or the well to do?
     • greywarshark 4.1.1

       1 June 2019 at 9:57 am

       …who's doing all the thinking. The people with real problems to solve – or the well to do?

       I don't find thinking and questioning and willingness to consider other less-materially-successful peoples viewpoint among the well to do. Not as a rule.

       You have to step aside and view things objectively, wonder about how it is for others, listen to their tales and then wonder about what led them there. The amount of wondering that people do, of the different ways that people react to the same events and treatment, all helps to get a depth to relating to others. Most well to do are too busy managing their resources, and choosing ways to observe things or do things important to their group to sit and wonder.

       Running in marathons is a perfect example. A totally unimportant activity, a personal challenge to skite about, and very much about self and proving yourself not lazy and meeting some herd convention. Why don't people raise to merit the groups going out to cut down old mans beard suffocating forest for instance. That requires all the fitness put into a marathon; that would be the wondering herd in action, not the stampeding herd off on some psychological desire to prove themselves as good as the old pioneers.
       • patricia bremner 4.1.1.1

         1 June 2019 at 11:36 am

         "Running marathons is a perfect example" greywarshark, the same idiocy is involved in climbing the same mountain 10 times.

         Feck, the airfares the costs and the energy could have built several tiny homes.

         Climbers are held up to us as heroes. Edmund Hillary was, because he followed up with meaningful humanitarian efforts. Now it is a mighty money churn and less than edifying.

         Many who are well off do not see their wealth, because they "Don't have a ……." (put a toy in there).
         • WeTheBleeple 4.1.1.1.1

           1 June 2019 at 1:40 pm

           It get's cold at night so the mountaineers have to hold each other. It's still debatable to this day: who was on top first, Hillary, or Tensing. – Me.
     • Jenny - How to get there?give 4.1.2

       1 June 2019 at 10:13 am

       Harry Holland's life confirms your analysis.

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Holland
       • greywarshark 4.1.2.1

         1 June 2019 at 11:16 am

         Cripes Jenny How – a second great Australian in the early Labour party, Holland Savage.

         And I always sniggered at Muldoon's quip:

         New Zealanders who leave for Australia raise the IQ of both countries · Robert Muldoon.

         Now I'm laughing on the other side of my face.
         • KJT 4.1.2.1.1

           1 June 2019 at 11:41 am

           Of course, then there was the Premier of Queensland.
           • Macro 4.1.2.1.1.1

             1 June 2019 at 4:36 pm

             Yes – but Queenslander's voted for him!
     • RedLogix 4.1.3

       1 June 2019 at 10:29 am

       The edge is where the action occurs. New ideas, new genes, new philosophies.

       Agreed. But keep in mind that only a small fraction of new ideas turn out to be good ideas. Radicals always risk going too far in their search.

       The center is where most of the energy resides, but this is mostly used to maintain the status quo, broken or not.

       Again agreed, yet keep in mind that while the status quo is always flawed and imperfect, we still depend on it for our daily survival. Yet as you say when it refuses to listen, the centre stagnates and becomes tyrannical.

       The edge is represents the new, the unknown and the unstable, while the centre is the opposite. While both domains have their natural inhabitants, they also both need each other. They need to trade.
       • greywarshark 4.1.3.1

         1 June 2019 at 11:23 am

         When you're mixing ingredients preparing to cook something, you keep adding and blending, repeating that till the mix is in right proportions needed for a good outcome. We need better chefs, cooks and kitchen hands following better practices if we want to lift our standards and then share out the buns fairly. That way we wouldn't get egg on our own faces or want to decorate the faces of supposed smart leaders.
         • Sam 4.1.3.1.1

           1 June 2019 at 12:13 pm

           Difference between a chef and a cook is a chef knows how to shop better. Asians by far have a far superior cultural tradition of low end deliciousness because across the Asian continent food has been far more democratised than in the west. In Asia cooks don't have to make difficult choices because the produce is so cheap to source and buy. In Asia it is possible to pick up a delicious hot sit down meal for 50 cents served to your table. In the west the well housed and well fed have a far greater cultural tradition of deciding who gets to eat and who doesn't.

           In the 80's jokes was the currency of the work place smoko room. In the 90's not so much and in the naughties the lunch room turned into a sour affair as work breaks became less and less and productivity up and up. No one has the instincts to tell a joke any more. The people that make up The Labour Party flow in and out of ministerial offices, they are no longer selected from the people who know something about society so Labour lacks those democtratic instincts and must rely on committee groups to come up with ideas and working groups to hold there hands as they run the country.

           Even though Labour are after higher wages and higher health they recognise the injustice of what Māori went through because they still have a beating heart. That kind of Labour Party will serve New Zealand particularly well. If MPs can teach themselves the big things then they'll have the instincts to know how things are run and then those smarties won't need pollsters. Although we can't whined the economy back to the 80's we've got a changing industrial relationship and every one doesn't wear the old high school knock around shoes anymore. We do have a different economy today. The same instincts are around and we've got to have more of that in The Labour Party and we've missed doing that in the last 15-20 years.
     • Dennis Frank 4.1.4

       1 June 2019 at 11:31 am

       Yes, I fully agree with your reasoning & analysis. I'm still on the edge, in respect of investigating new thinking continuously, but I plonked one foot in the establishment at the start of '75, to have a career, and ended up straddling both realms, uneasily.

       I've always found most Greens too mainstream in their thinking, for instance. Yet to get consensus, I had to work constructively with them. Overcoming my natural distaste for compromising essential principles was always hard, yet the sustained effort got us into parliament, and the compromises our reps in parliament have had to make are similar to mine in those respects.

       So nowadays I advocate a consensus praxis to overcome partisan divides, and am pleased that we finally have a government actually doing that. Still, we must keep pushing for more innovative thinking around governance. The world needs that, not just us here in Aotearoa!
5. Pete George 5

   1 June 2019 at 9:27 am

   The launch this week of the book Whale Oil understandably put Cameron Slater and his dirty blogging at the centre of attention. But he has been in some cases paid and aided, abetted and used by a number of accomplices.

   Someone who has been closely associated with Slater in his sustained attacks on Matt Blomfield is an ex-business associate of Blomfield’s, Marc Spring. If anything he has done more for longer than Slater.

   One way Spring has kept attacks going against Blomfield) is his use of many identities in his online activities.

   How many identities? That’s hard to quantify, but it’s many. my guess is well over a hundred identities, if not many more.

   I identified over 40 in an eight month period on just one blog.

   There have probably been some here.

   Use of multiple pseudonyms is deceptive, and is bad for the many people who legitimately and reasonably use a pseudonym, as id discredits the use of pseudonyms generally.

   The many identities of Marc Spring
   • Anne 5.1

     1 June 2019 at 9:54 am

     It sounds to me like this man Spring is a pyschopath with obsessive disorders. Has he been investigated? He sounds dangerous.
     • greywarshark 5.1.1

       1 June 2019 at 10:04 am

       That is very informative and insightful pete george. Thank you. We do have to keep watch for the evil people that are round, sort of have sensitive traps in our minds that register particular types of thought and action; a bit like traps for insects and predators that can be so deadly for our food sources.
     • Peter 5.1.2

       1 June 2019 at 10:30 am

       Having seen of some of his antics over the years your description sounds pretty right. You could have used the word 'multiple' in front of obsessive.

       It's interesting describing the behaviour and the personality in proper scientific, psychological terms. The easiest thing would be to say things like 'dirty, lowdown, scumbag piece of shit."
   • marty mars 5.2

     1 June 2019 at 11:13 am

     Be good to know his aliases here
   • Pete George 5.3

     1 June 2019 at 3:06 pm

     Here are Marc Spring identities that have been used on various blogs and media comments forums.

     ThreeMonkeys
     SHAFT
     The Ape
     NOT MIKE
     4077th
     Gweg pwesland
     pimp
     phillip
     DaveG
     slicedcheesesandwich
     Justice4Matt
     BLOMFIELDS EX BIZ PARTNER
     Harry ‘Gold Star’ Stottle
     Harry Stottle
     to HELL in a handbasket
     The Assasin
     David Jessop
     CHEEKY DARKY
     the MONKEYS RAINCOAT
     Elton
     Samantha Hays
     The Barber
     They Walk, they talk, they harm
     THE PRIEST
     Hannibal Lecters Psychologist
     Inspector Clouseau
     Rod
     I HAVE THE HARD DRIVE
     MARC NEVER FORGETS CUNT
     I AM OWED TOO
     THE WORST NIGHTMARE
     When dies Bankrupt = Businessman
     Jean
     Bus Driver
     LORD DONKEY
     Harvey Specter
     TYRANT/THE TYRANT
     HUSTLER
     BUCK WIT
     Shagger
     Gimp of Greenhithe
     Spiderman wants his mask back
     RAMBONE OF RAMBONIA
     Reaper Crew
     Gay Mo
     Rolf Harris
     Bill Brown
     Reaper Crew

     The last one is one of I believe a number he has used at LF.

     https://yournz.org/2019/06/01/the-many-identities-of-marc-spring-include/
     • Incognito 5.3.1

       1 June 2019 at 3:45 pm

       Isn’t that one of those psychological word-association tests to unearth deep psychological trauma, damaged or stalled identity development, and psychopathic tendencies?
     • Anne 5.3.2

       1 June 2019 at 4:47 pm

       Mad as a meat-axe . Threemonkeys and Rod ring a bell for me. Never frequented Whale Oil or Kiwiblog so suspect he used them here in times past.
6. greywarshark 6

   1 June 2019 at 9:29 am

   I suppose this has already been noted here. Amy Adams of National accusing Labour Coalition of playing 'petty politics' in changes to the convention of the pre-Budget practices. WTF when Simon B does it, it is okay – he is just testing the government by breaking reasonable agreements.

   I should think that Labour Coalition was actually trying to prevent National doing more of their petty measures and turning what was a serious financial presentation into a Punch and Judy show.

   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1905/S00287/government-playing-petty-politics-with-budget-day-process.htm
   National’s Finance spokesperson Amy Adams says. 29 May 2019
   “While media and other parties are given three and a half hours to examine the Government’s accounts before they are released, National is only allowed 60 minutes. Because of this we need a wide range of subject matter experts to review their areas. Last year we had 16 of our team present and to have this arbitrarily halved this year is unreasonable and petty, particularly when we are told this year’s Budget will look very different to previous years.
   • Sacha 6.1

     1 June 2019 at 10:31 am

     From what I read in te newspaper, they had to move the whole lock-up process to a smaller room this year. That's all.
     • greywarshark 6.1.1

       1 June 2019 at 10:59 am

       Ah but that can be played out as part of a Conspiracy against National.

       And perhaps the room was further from the toilets – another form of harassment. Gnats are really sick in the mind, and it says something too about the people who keep voting them in, keep supporting them, keep listening to the diatribe from the bellicose broadcasters providing them with a comforting blanket of words for the day that the Right Crowd can repeat to prevent any uncomfortable thoughts from filtering through the Matrix.

       I notice a lot of Rudyard Kipling’s poem ‘If’ is pertinent.
       If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
       Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
       Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
       And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

       And even that wording can be bent and used against you by the RW and some from the Left as well. And that is dealt with in those lines also. A meaningful poem.
       https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if—
7. esoteric pineapples 7

   1 June 2019 at 9:33 am

   Fascinating in-depth documentary on the influence of cannabis in the Bible. It seems the word cannabis was Scythian in origin and it was they who traded and spread it throughout Eurasia. The Greeks called it by the same name while the Jews called it Kaneh Bosm, each culture giving the plant a variation of the Scythian name. Like others, the Jews valued its ability to get high (restricted to the high priests, prophets and kings), nutritional value and use for hemp clothing.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0bH6Z_OSp8
8. johnm 8

   1 June 2019 at 9:39 am

   Assange showing symptoms of 'psychological torture': UN

   Statement accuses the US, UK, Sweden and Ecuador of "ganging up" on Assange to "isolate, demonise and abuse" him.

   https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/05/assange-showing-symptoms-psychological-torture-190531135445284.html

   John Pilger: US Charges Against Julian Assange are RIDICULOUS!

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pJIsTatG_A
   • RedLogix 8.1

     1 June 2019 at 10:07 am

     Thanks for this john. I've been following this sad development and watching the entire fiasco unravel on every front. I used some strong language a few days back, and the light of this I don't resile from it one jot.
     • Morrissey 8.1.1

       1 June 2019 at 11:35 am

       https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/05/the-unrelenting-state/
       • greywarshark 8.1.1.1

         1 June 2019 at 1:09 pm

         WH Auden says it for Assange:'

         All I have is a voice
         To undo the folded lie,
         The romantic lie in the brain
         Of the sensual man-in-the-street
         And the lie of Authority
         Whose buildings grope the sky:

         There is no such thing as the State
         And no one exists alone;
         Hunger allows no choice
         To the citizen or the police;
         We must love one another or die.

         https://poets.org/poem/september-1-1939
         • greywarshark 8.1.1.1.1

           1 June 2019 at 1:28 pm

           I think what could help Assange is if someone from the RW speaks up who has perceptions of being decent and also concerned about USA keeping an appearance of having standards of behaviour that bear scrutiny. That person would suggest that it is a bad idea to not enable Assange's health so he can stand trial and not in the USA's best interests to allow Assange to fall seriously ill or worse.

           The USA must try to keep its image alive of being a fair nation that behaves in a superior way to others and acts to keep the Peace in the World. So – something should be said and acted on in this manner and the UK can encourage that and show they have blood in their veins.

           This?
           'Though USA is very unhappy about the revelations of secrets that WikiLeaks supplied, it does not wish to harm the individual responsible as other lesser civilised countries would do. And so it is transferring Assange (to Australia, to a facility where he can recover his strength with wellbeing) until he is ready to face trial.'

           That sort of thing. The USA won't have a high horse to look down from if they don't make an effort to repair their fraying image.
   • johnm 8.2

     1 June 2019 at 10:10 am

     Julian Assange's mother condemns UK government for 'unlawfully slowly killing my son'

     https://www.sott.net/article/414092-Julian-Assanges-mother-condemns-UK-government-for-unlawfully-slowly-killing-my-son?fbclid=IwAR0XS8Rm9JF-AaKNcjDTszhn9l7B14NGM7auC1QlT-1FfFVRt1dVvkxJVa8

     “They made him very ill by refusing him ANY access to life sustaining fresh air, exercise, sun/VitD or proper medical care for 6 YEARS of illegal Embassy detention

     Kristinn Hrafnsson, WikiLeaks' editor-in-chief, wrote that "Julian's case is of major historic significance. It will be remembered as the worst attack on press freedom in our lifetime. The People need to voice their condemnation; it is their politicians, their courts, their police and their prisons that are being abused in order to leave this black stain on history. Please act now to avert this shame".
     • francesca 8.2.1

       1 June 2019 at 10:19 am

       Unfortunately the mass campaign to vilify Assange has done its work.

       Even on this supposedly progressive site, the attack lines are relentlessly repeated

       "Melzer went on:

       “In the course of the past nine years, Mr. Assange has been exposed to persistent, progressively severe abuse ranging from systematic judicial persecution and arbitrary confinement in the Ecuadorian embassy, to his oppressive isolation, harassment and surveillance inside the embassy, and from deliberate collective ridicule, insults and humiliation, to open instigation of violence and even repeated calls for his assassination.”

       Trigger alert : sensitive souls may note this comes from Consortium News and includes information that may be contrary to dearly held beliefs

       https://consortiumnews.com/2019/05/31/un-torture-report-demonized-assange-has-faced-psychological-torture/

       We should be out in the streets over this
       • greywarshark 8.2.1.1

         1 June 2019 at 10:33 am

         I looked at the letter writing to Assange at Belsem? Prison campaign, it advises to put in a plain sheet of paper and self addressed envelope with UK stamps for reply – of course he woud need a pen or pencil. I have not been able to find NZPost information about how to deal with pre-paid mail in other country's currency. At present I have a question placed yesterday about this but have received no email reply.

         I asked about stamps or an international coupon which I imagine there should be available but who knows it seems to me that NZ Post is just managing down the business. If I could buy a pre-paid envelope rather than stamps – that would be practical. I thought they might have replied by now.
       • Morrissey 8.2.1.2

         1 June 2019 at 10:50 am

         "Abstaining from the witchhunt would have classed the dissenter as an enemy. Stalin was supported by fanatics, cynics, sadists and moral cowards."

         —-Donald Rayfield, Stalin and His Hangmen: An Authoritative Portrait of a Tyrant and Those Who Served Him (Viking, 2004)
       • greywarshark 8.2.1.3

         1 June 2019 at 10:50 am

         …deliberate collective ridicule, insults and humiliation… We have seen that on this site frequently and from people who one would expect to have been on the side of exposing the secrets of powerful people and countries willing to destroy others for their purposes.

         For good people to do nothing…. Have I got time to be good, what with all the other things I give my time to, as well as my own living tasks for me, my family, friends and community? These sort of unworthy thoughts about my lack of action are I think echoed by quite a number.

         We should be out in the streets for Assange, but the attention now is on climate change and receiving a living wage for those who are trying to hold society together and retain the advances that were gained by exhaustive social interaction last century.

         Got to keep trying to do it all or the golden bulldozer driven by a robot with such a cheeky, lovable grin in such a cute hat, will scoop us all up. Ever looked at the photos of naked bodies being thrown into burial pits in Holocaust archives? That sort of thing has happened multiple times in even near history. Those images should be in everyone's minds; the reality of what we can do when we have our mind setting on the mark of Cold, Hard, Unfeeling, Uncaring, Unrespecting, Unloving, and Choose your level of Evil – Eager, Sometimes, Neutral, Not sure, Wrestling against it every day.
         • francesca 8.2.1.3.1

           1 June 2019 at 12:02 pm

           You're right Grey

           Just the sheer numbing pressure of being under the hammer , the struggle to provide a roof and food, and pay the bills is all many can cope with
           • greywarshark 8.2.1.3.1.1

             1 June 2019 at 12:48 pm

             I'm sorry – I do go on. I understand if its tl:dr. But laying it out occasionally, how someone is feeling I think helps to understand what's going on in society for some people.

             The problem is that life presently is so depressing – the constant flow of viciousness, unfairness, violence and the imbalance with meanness high and easy generosity so low; how to create a bright spot, some hope, some comfort takes mental energy, even requires mental exercises. And under austerity with a religious wash, joy is not allowed, unless it is preachy Joy in the Lord.

             I am sure the Great Spirit-Creator would be satisfied to see us being just great humans showing respect and receiving it in return; trying to get on together and building a feeling of solidarity and strength to face off the nastiness. That's hard even when the basics of life are under control. I see this blog as a living personification? of what those here with goodwill are reaching for. That's why I get upset at repeat vicious put-downs and faux concerns that have a thorn in them. I can stand argy bargy from those who are trying like me to establish a buzzy beehive of ideas and co-operation to make up for the failings of the one in Wellington at present. I don't think though we will ever see a united group of all parties working for the good of NZ in Wellington. So I see it as important to keep talking about good things, and then doing something so that I don't end up feeling helpless and life a wet noodle. So will soon shut up and go and do something useful for me and have done something else already this morning so that's a tick for me.

             We have to keep our eye on civility, honesty, kindness and practicality as these are needed in relationships all round the world. In NZ too many have been vaccinated with poisonous ideas, some sanctimonious, many adopting misanthropy and so finding it exciting to embrace robots (and possibly one day literally as well as figuratively).
             • francesca …

               1 June 2019 at 3:25 pm

               
       • johnm 8.2.1.4

         1 June 2019 at 11:06 am

         They are trying to kill Julian Assange

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-SFYvy5CQQ

         

         Martha S. 1 day ago

         The so-called journalists of the msm are presstitutes, they write what is expected from them. They sold their soul.

         That Mike Who? is one of the best paid presstitutes infesting NZ airways and press.
       • johnm 8.2.1.5

         1 June 2019 at 11:36 am

         Chris Marsden demands freedom for Julian Assange

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ltfm-7FQh4
   • McFlock 8.3

     1 June 2019 at 3:28 pm

     Sad, but self-inflicted.
     • RedLogix 8.3.1

       1 June 2019 at 4:04 pm

       On the contrary. I'd wager that every argument you've made this past 8 years that Assange's problems are 'self inflicted' is authoritatively debunked here:

       https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2019-05-27/abuses-show-assange-case-was-never-about-law/
       • McFlock 8.3.1.1

         1 June 2019 at 4:52 pm

         Given that he starts with the "no charges" bullshit that is a mi-statement of the "no proceedings" argument that the british courts threw out of his original extradition hearings, that's a bold wager.
         • Morrissey 8.3.1.1.1

           1 June 2019 at 4:59 pm

           One of the hounds that pollute this site has unloaded another of his complacent, vicious, obscenity-larded tirades. The following captures his motivation just about perfectly…..

           Abstaining from the witchhunt would have classed the dissenter as an enemy. Stalin was supported by fanatics, cynics, sadists and moral cowards.

           —-Donald Rayfield, Stalin and His Hangmen: An Authoritative Portrait of a Tyrant and Those Who Served Him (Viking, 2004)
           • McFlock 8.3.1.1.1.1

             1 June 2019 at 5:18 pm

             yeah the only reason I said anything was because it was just a matter of time before some self-important jerk wrote that people who have the unmitigated gall to suggest that people to be extradited for sexual assault proceedings shouldn't jump bail are "strangely silent".

             So no, it changes nothing. He chose to abscond, that's his choice, he wears the consequences. If you're going to do that, copy Biggs or Papillon instead.
             • Sam …

               1 June 2019 at 5:28 pm

               Ignoring the role Julian Assange has played in exposing America's misdeeds for some fantasy that Julian committed sexual assault probably has more evidence than the evidence against Julian Assange.
               • McFlock …

                 2 June 2019 at 3:08 pm

                 Swedish prosecutors and british courts disagree.
                 • Sam …

                   2 June 2019 at 3:18 pm

                   So you are still in denial about the bogus charges against Assange. We've got the rise in denial of routine law. A rise in denial about science, a rise in religious denial, and I'm talking about you, McFlock (lol) the amount of denial. The greater the denial> the greater the darkness.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 3:44 pm

                     You think the sexual assault investigation is bogus? Is that because you have any connection to the case, or just because google and confirmation bias have an unhealthy relationship in your mind?
                   • Sam …

                     2 June 2019 at 3:52 pm

                     It's because you excel at pointing at flaws in Julian Assanges arguments and are very quiet and deceptive about the flaws in the prosecutions arguments.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 4:13 pm

                     What flaws are those?

                     Sex without consent = rape.

                     Removing the condom when the condom was requested negates previous consent.

                     Therefore, if the facts of the case are correct, there's at lease a case to make that rape occurred.
                   • Sam …

                     2 June 2019 at 4:46 pm

                     You are still only telling half of the truth. Consent laws was brought into Sweden so to charge adults with raping minors, not adults raping adults. If consent laws was punished as you would prescribe, McFlock 🙂 then the legal age of consent would be 30 or how ever old the victims you allege was raped by Julian Assange. That's it.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 5:00 pm

                     Are you arguing that rape is legal in Sweden as long as the person being raped is over a certain age?
                   • Sam …

                     2 June 2019 at 5:04 pm

                     I'm saying you can't come up with an argument why I couldn't or even shouldn’t mount a fertile red blooded woman laying next to me bareback.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 5:38 pm

                     Because she doesn't want you to.
                   • Sam …

                     2 June 2019 at 5:53 pm

                     That sentence only makes sense if I replace "she" with "McFlock."
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 6:31 pm

                     Keep telling yourself that.
                   • Sam …

                     2 June 2019 at 6:50 pm

                     What makes you so sure that I would have violated a law in the situation that I outlined above?
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:02 pm

                     Because if your scenario has anything at all to do with Assange, my previous answer is sufficient. Otherwise there was no relevance to your comment at all and I incorrectly inferred the opposite.

                     Either case is possible.
                   • Sam …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:39 pm

                     In that case of course woman can say no condom no sex. What is unacceptable is a law intended for protecting minors against sex with out a condom because under Swedish law there had to be signs of physical harm, is then used to prosecute a crime from 7 years ago. And the definitions don't even fit current law.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:41 pm

                     So if she did say "no condom, no sex", and he slying removes the condom or doesn't wear one, is that rape?
                   • Sam …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:46 pm

                     You'd have to at least prove that your hypothetical occurred after the 2018 consent law changes. The rape allegations have already been thrown out of EU court once, woke lefties are just pleaing for them to be thrown out of a Swedish court a secound time.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:17 pm

                     lol you might want to look at the original extradition case again. Well before 2018.
                   • Sam …

                     2 June 2019 at 9:02 pm

                     Good one
             • francesca …

               1 June 2019 at 5:44 pm

               I love Mezler's response to Jeremy Hunt's assertion that Assange had always been free to leave the Embassy.

               

               After finding that Julian Assange displayed symptoms of “prolonged psychological torture,” UN Special Rapporteur Nils Melzer has traded barbs with the UK’s Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt over the WikiLeaks founder’s persecution.

               

               Jeremy Hunt✔@Jeremy_Hunt

               This is wrong. Assange chose to hide in the embassy and was always free to leave and face justice. The UN Special Rapporteur should allow British courts to make their judgements without his interference or inflammatory accusations.

               “The UN Special Rapporteur should allow British courts to make their judgments without his interference or inflammatory accusations,” Hunt added.

               Melzer quickly fired back in a rather creative fashion, saying: “With all due respect, Sir: Mr Assange was about as ‘free to leave’ as someone sitting on a rubber boat in a sharkpool.” He also reiterated comments that the British justice system had failed to show the “impartiality and objectivity required by the rule of law.”

               

               Nils Melzer@NilsMelzer

               Replying to @Jeremy_Hunt
             • The Al1en …

               1 June 2019 at 5:46 pm

               @McFlock I'm sure he'll get more support once he's faced and beaten the rape charges in a court of law.
               • McFlock …

                 2 June 2019 at 3:10 pm

                 If that happens.

                 I'm equally sure that people here will still think his work with wikileaks should give him a free pass, even if they accept the verdict, if he's found guilty.
                 • The Al1en …

                   2 June 2019 at 5:10 pm

                   It certainly seems that way.
                 • Morrissey …

                   2 June 2019 at 5:52 pm

                   The charges are fantasy charges. The women with whom he had consensual sex were inveigled and bullied into this obscene travesty by the Swedish prosecutor, who was herself under duress from U.S. "diplomats."

                   If there were any credible charges against him, that would be another matter entirely. Your abuse of those who support this political dissenter and journalist is invalid.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 6:49 pm

                     If there were and credible evidence of what you claim, the extradition bid would have failed in 2012.

                     It's that sort of baseless but categorical claim of Assange's innocence that brings forth the description "rape apologist".

                     We don't know he's guilty, but nor do we know he is innocent. That is what the courts are for.
             • francesca …

               1 June 2019 at 5:48 pm

               Political asylum is a thing McFlock.Its not granted to avoid being charged with a crime.Unless there is strong suspicion the charges are politically motivated
               • McFlock …

                 2 June 2019 at 7:05 pm

                 Prominent people asking for asylum are political pawns. Bargaining chips.
             • Morrissey …

               1 June 2019 at 7:42 pm

               ... copy Biggs or Papillon instead.

               ????

               They were criminals. Assange is a journalist, an exposer of and dissenter from official lies. Which makes him, of course, an extreme threat and a target for destruction.
               • Psycho Milt …

                 2 June 2019 at 4:20 pm

                 He's a guy who jumped bail to avoid extradition to face allegations of criminal activity. Any journalism he might also have undertaken is irrelevant to that.
                 • RedLogix …

                   2 June 2019 at 7:17 pm

                   A bullshit argument that omits the crucial context. It's like blaming someone for breaking their leg jumping out of a third floor window and not mentioning the building was on fire.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:36 pm

                     Well, not mentioning that he claimed the building was on fire after the home-owners arrived home early and there were questions about whether he was legally permitted to be inside the room from which he jumped. Oh, and that so far the only fire discovered is in the fireplace, well-contained according to fire code standards.
                   • Sam …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:42 pm

                     Nope, there's enough ambiguity in your argument to call bulshit. Assanges rape allegations was just a tool for the U.S. to persecute Assange.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:47 pm

                     Or he's a rapist.

                     Or every possible permutation, interpretation, or misunderstanding, in between.
                   • Sam …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:53 pm

                     By ambiguity I mean the woke have called Assage a rapist so such with out a conviction of rape that it's prejudiced any trail he may have. It's impossible for Assange to receive a fair trial now.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:14 pm

                     I'm sure his legal team will make that argument, and the courts will consider it.
                   • Psycho Milt …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:18 pm

                     A bullshit argument that omits the crucial context.

                     I didn't mention the specific allegations or their context, but they're not exactly crucial to the point that he's a guy who jumped bail to avoid extradition to face allegations of criminal activity. Whatever claims Assange or anyone else has about the allegations being part of a dastardly if somewhat illogical conspiracy, they're just claims, and evidence-free ones at that.
                   • RedLogix …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:27 pm

                     Whatever claims Assange or anyone else has about the allegations being part of a dastardly if somewhat illogical conspiracy, they're just claims, and evidence-free ones at that.

                     So now you are claiming the Americans are only pretending to be making an extradition case against him?
                   • Psycho Milt …

                     3 June 2019 at 7:18 am

                     The alleged conspiracy is that the Swedish extradition request was part of a plot to extradite Assange to the US. There's no evidence of such a plot, and it would have been a pointless plot anyway, as the US could have just requested his extradition from the UK – as it's now done.
     • Brigid 8.3.2

       1 June 2019 at 4:07 pm

       Your 'but' negated your previous word and displayed your faux concern.

       Enough with your disingenuous utterances.
       • Morrissey 8.3.2.1

         1 June 2019 at 4:39 pm

         http://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/msg/1559337637.html
     • Drowsy M. Kram 8.3.3

       1 June 2019 at 4:14 pm

       A “sad” case of “self-inflicted” psychological torture?

       What could Assange do now to minimise further “self-inflicted” psychological torture?
       • McFlock 8.3.3.1

         1 June 2019 at 4:59 pm

         Not much. How do you change your mind after you jumped off the bridge?
         • Drowsy M. Kram 8.3.3.1.1

           1 June 2019 at 11:16 pm

           "One little push, and over he went – he made quite a 'splash'." Sad indeed.
     • Adrian thornton 8.3.4

       1 June 2019 at 4:17 pm

       @ McFlock , 'self-inflicted'…really how so?
       • McFlock 8.3.4.1

         1 June 2019 at 4:54 pm

         He chose to be a political pawn for Ecuador. Should have jumped on a yacht.
       • Morrissey 8.3.4.2

         1 June 2019 at 5:01 pm

         Adrian, if you encountered someone so disgusting on the street, you'd probably ignore him. Don't expect a thoughtful or serious answer to your question.
         • Adrian thornton 8.3.4.2.1

           1 June 2019 at 5:26 pm

           Yes I know, but it can be amusing to try and follow their mental gymnastics in their convoluted answers sometimes, I guess I am saying they can some times be good for a cheap laugh….only if you are in the mood that is, otherwise they are just annoying and distasteful.
     • Sam 8.3.5

       1 June 2019 at 4:23 pm

       Still hanging on brother. Trump is trying to shake you off and you are still hanging on.
     • Morrissey 8.3.6

       1 June 2019 at 4:44 pm

       Kamenev and Smirnov walked to the execution chamber stoically. But Zinoviev clung to the boots of his guards and was taken down by stretcher. This was re-enacted several times at supper in Stalin’s dacha, the bodyguard Karl Pauker playing the part of Zinoviev—begging for Stalin to be fetched and then crying out “Hear, o Israel”—until even Stalin found the charade distasteful.

       — Donald Rayfield Stalin and His Hangmen (Viking, 2004) page 270

       Russian versions of McFlock, meanwhile, tut-tutted and said "Zinoviev inflicted it on himself."
       • greywarshark 8.3.6.1

         1 June 2019 at 8:09 pm

         Mprrissey better not to make the argument more distressing. This goes direct to a sensitive nerve of McFlock's and coughing up Stalin who was a mega maniac with a matching power complex is not helpful in the situation. Just disagree will you and not feed the fire. It upsets me my friend.
         • Morrissey 8.3.6.1.1

           1 June 2019 at 8:14 pm

           The point of comparison is the behaviour of Stalin’s henchmen. McFlock and several others on this forum are analogues of Karl Pauker, Lavrenty Beria and the other ghouls who delighted in the suffering of officially designated enemies.
           • greywarshark 8.3.6.1.1.1

             1 June 2019 at 8:57 pm

             Yeah i just think your exagerrated point might be dropped being a regular here and knowing a bit about the site commenters.
           • McFlock 8.3.6.1.1.2

             2 June 2019 at 3:06 pm

             Except that adding in "Russian versions of McFlock, meanwhile […]" shows that there is no "analogue" of me in the actual quote.

             I get that you were trying to be a dick and compare Assange's self-chosen Ecuadorean Escapade with the deaths of twenty-odd million people in a totalitarian state run by a tyrant, but the English language (like the rest of reality) didn't quite fit your narrative.
             • Sam …

               2 June 2019 at 3:22 pm

               And my gulags will be safe with you around brother. Extra portions of cabbage soup for you.
               • McFlock …

                 2 June 2019 at 3:42 pm

                 See, now you're the one claiming to be a totalitarian. Which is the opposite of what mozza was claiming. Try to keep up, Sam, there's a good lad.
                 • Sam …

                   2 June 2019 at 3:54 pm

                   No cabbage soup for you is a naughty boy.
             • Drowsy M. Kram …

               2 June 2019 at 3:50 pm

               Assange might have chosen most of his "Ecuadorean Escapade", but I doubt that he chose the ending, let alone subsequent events – these were imposed, and perhaps more difficult to foresee than the consequences of having "jumped off the bridge".

               Still “sad“.
               • McFlock …

                 2 June 2019 at 4:25 pm

                 How the fuck did he think it was going to finish? Do cops stop chasing robbers once they reach "safe", all is forgiven? Would he get into a literal "diplomatic bag" and be put on a slow boat to Ecuador?

                 He had literal months to figure out his absconding plan, and that's what he came up with? No helicopter out to an Ecuadorian freighter 20 miles off shore? No yacht trip? No disguise, false identity, or escape tunnel from the embassy? No, let's take a car ride into the middle of London and stay there.
                 • Morrissey …

                   2 June 2019 at 5:55 pm

                   As well as repeatedly firing the word “rape” around, despite its complete inappropriateness, this tick "McFlock" keeps trying to associate a journalist and political dissident with robbers—yesterday he used the examples of Ronald Biggs and Papillon, for pity's sake.

                   I guess when you've chosen your line, no matter how wrongheaded and demonstrably false it is, you're committed to it. George W. Bush was like that. And his deputy Tony Bliar. And “Honest John” Howard.

                   And our friend Wayne.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 6:43 pm

                     Rape is what he remains accused of.

                     Other escaped criminals are resonable "analogues" for someone who absconded from bail for the better part of a decade.
                   • RedLogix …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:22 pm

                     Nah … rape is the bogus charge that was cooked up for political purposes. Every sane reading of the events around his association with the two Swedish women, both before and after, and during the initial interviews … absolutely do not suggest coercion or assault. The first investigator concluded 'no crime of any kind'.

                     It was only after he left Sweden that someone had the bright idea that what happened could be twisted into this disgusting charade.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:30 pm

                     Any sane reading suggests that the facts as reported indicate he was at the very least reckless as to whether either of his partners were consenting to him not using a condom.

                     But you know that's all bogus, so fucking yay, I guess courts are unnecessary, with such omniscient beings amongst us.
                   • RedLogix …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:50 pm

                     It's my impression the vast majority of people, including me, who support Assange have always said that ideally the allegations should be tested in Court.

                     But everything about this case tells us nothing is ideal, nothing is normal about how this case has been laid and prosecuted. If this was really about Assange's 'recklessness' … and nothing else … he would have done exactly what he said he has stated all along, and traveled back to Sweden to clear his name at Court.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:13 pm

                     And Steve Jobs should have gone for recognised medical treatments sooner.

                     People react oddly to things, and in different ways. Sometimes it's panic, or ego, or denial/avoidance. Sometimes people say stuff for so long that they end up believing their own hype.

                     Could be any of those, could be that a mole in the FBI/CIA secretly emailed him the full outline of a plot to use these allegations to gitmo him, and he panicked and ran to the embassy. Or maybe that was the plan – send him an invented plot so he does something stupid like jumping bail.
                   • RedLogix …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:22 pm

                     Bullshit. For years you've been deflecting from the obvious, that the USA would use any opportunity to extradite him if possible. Assange could not know in advance exactly how, but he had every good reason to suspect that these 'rape' allegations were bogus and a ploy to get him into a legal jurisdiction more amenable to American pressure.

                     For years you pretended this was just a paranoid fabrication to avoid facing trial in Sweden … yet now the Americans have indeed played their hand openly and you have been proven factually wrong.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:28 pm

                     For years I've been saying that if he genuinely believed it was all a US plot, why flee from Sweden into the jurisdiction of America's closest ally?

                     And yes, they showed their hand – in UK courts.

                     And it's one thing to pretend Sweden is more "amenable" to extradtition to the US than the UK (which is an arguable point full of opinions and maybes), it's another thing entirely to say the Swedes are "amenable" to fabricating rape proceedings in order to be in a position to extradite to the US.

                     And if it's a genuine sex crime investigation, then he needs to face it.
                 • Drowsy M. Kram …

                   2 June 2019 at 6:22 pm

                   "How the fuck did he think it was going to finish?" – you sound upset.

                   Once granted, how do cases of asylum typically end? Sadly?
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 6:38 pm

                     Normally, people requesting asylum do so after they are in the country in question, or walk into the embassy of the save haven in a third country.

                     Fleeing into an embassy in the country you are fleeing from seems to have very mixed results.
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:06 pm

                     IMHO the 7 examples in that 2012 list all had 'happy' endings for the asylum seekers. Most of the examples are at least 30 years old.

                     Assange’s "Escapade" seems an outlier wrt duration and outcome.

                     “Sad“.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:14 pm

                     look at the ones where the asylum seekers were seeking asylum from the country the embassy was in.

                     The happy endings lower drastically in proportion.

                     And that's if you call the Mariel Boatlift a happy ending.
                     Not sure the Cardinal’s experience was too happy, either. Got there in the end, but after how long? He must have not had a cat.
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     2 June 2019 at 7:45 pm

                     Your “cat” reference lends credence to Brigid’s comment @8.3.2.

                     Your ‘but’ negated your previous word and displayed your faux concern.
                     Enough with your disingenuous utterances.

                     The linked page lists seven examples where "asylum seekers were seeking asylum from the country the embassy was in." All the asylum seekers apparently got what they asked for, some sooner than others. You believe this applies to Assange – lol, “sad“.

                     2012: "He left after six days, and subsequently was allowed to go to New York with his wife and two children."

                     1989: "Noriega surrendered 10 days later after being assured he would not face the death penalty in the United States." A one-time useful ally of the US.

                     1989: "They lived in the embassy for 13 months before being allowed to go to the United States."

                     1986: Howard 'escaped' to Russia via their Finnish embassy.

                     1980: From the information given, it seems likely that the six Cubans granted asylum in Peru's Havana embassy 'got out'.

                     1966: "She returned to the Soviet Union in 1984, saying she wanted to reunite with her family. Her Soviet citizenship was restored but she left a year later to go back to the U.S. following a family feud."

                     1956: "lived in the U.S. Embassy in Budapest from 1956 until 1971, when he was allowed to leave for Vienna." The only example in that list of an asylum that lasted (much) longer than Assange's. The US honoured that request for asylum until he was allow to leave.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:00 pm

                     I think you need to look up Noriega, and what happened to him, and relations with the US before they invaded Panama.

                     Howard ditched his tail in the US and went to Helsinki, where he claimed asylum in the Soviet Embassy there. He didn't go from the Soviets' Washington embassy. The Finns didn't want him, the yanks did. Similarly, Stalin went to the US embassy in New Delhi. The Indians didn't want here, the Soviets did.

                     Cuba was happy to get rid of them, and everyone else. And some occupants of its jail cells and mental asylums. Mariel Boatlift.

                     And the US had skin in the game to protect the Cardinal. He was a PR bonus. He could easily have been abandoned if the chips had fallen the other way.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:22 pm

                     BTW, I misphrased it.

                     Assange was fleeing the UK, so went to the Ecuadorian embassy in the UK.

                     I.e. the location of the embassy and the country being fled were the same country.

                     That applies to the two Chinese instances (diplomatic horse-trading likely involved), the Cardinal (same), and the Cubans (which Cuba used to clear the country of dissidents and prisoners).
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:26 pm

                     You cited those seven examples in response to my question:

                     Once granted, how do cases of asylum typically end? Sadly?

                     In those seven examples, no asylum seeker was forcibly removed from the embassy that granted asylum. Only Noriega was subsequently incarcerated, after extracting a guarantee and surrendering voluntarily.

                     If those historical cases are anything to go by then it seems to me that the way Assange's ayslum ended, and his subsequent treatment, are atypical – I'm happy for readers to draw their own conclusions.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:29 pm

                     Even 14% is not an unexpected return. It happens.
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:39 pm

                     Would you agree that ‘forcible removal’ was unprecedented, and could therefore be regarded as atypical?
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:46 pm

                     No idea.

                     Maybe if he’d considered his diplomatic worth versus an IMF loan after a change in president, he’d have avoided the embassy in the first place.
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:48 pm

                     "Sad"
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:54 pm

                     It is sad.

                     Like, outside my work, there's a pigeon that got hit by a car in the street and is now a flat streak of feathery grease. I'm not cut up about it or anything, but as I drive over it there is a sombre reflection on all that we are and become. There's no glee that a disease-encrusted rat of the sky is no more. It was a thing, and now it is a dead thing.

                     That sort of level of sad, I guess. Where you do that sort of inward "tch" sound, maybe slightly shake your head, and then get on with your day.
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     2 June 2019 at 8:59 pm

                     Got it – let 'justice' take its course, nothing to see here, just one more “disease-encrusted rat of the sky“, etc.

                     “Oh dear, how sad, never mind.”

                     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnHoCYq8bUA
                   • McFlock …

                     2 June 2019 at 9:03 pm

                     "right".
9. ianmac 9

   1 June 2019 at 9:41 am

   "Treasury hacking: The time I hacked WINZ – Keith Ng."

   Remember the fuss when Keith discovered the "hole" in WINZ? He did the right thing by informing WINZ about the "hole." Bridges didn't did he?

   Imagine if you only saw the last part of the process. Imagine you didn't see the first 200,000 times where the security system blocked access, and you just saw the 200,001st attempt. You would simply see the hacker walk in and succeed at accessing the information. You might think there was no security at all.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12236128
10. greywarshark 10

    1 June 2019 at 10:16 am

    Report on clever hacking from African sources this time, not Russian! Through email phishing.

    Nelson family nearly lose home deposit to African hackers

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/113115596/nelson-family-nearly-lose-home-deposit-to-african-hackers
11. Ankerrawshark) 11

    1 June 2019 at 10:27 am

    I https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113169105/former-bnz-chair-calls-for-sir-john-key-to-be-forced-to-resign-from-anz

    Hmmm.
    • Incognito 11.1

      1 June 2019 at 7:10 pm

      ANZ New Zealand tries to fob it off as a minor error that occurred. Maybe they can find an ‘emotional junior staffer’ to take the blame. It most certainly wasn’t the Board.

      The point is made that this is a fundamental issue of incompetence:

      "In my view … this failure indicates that the board was/is not competent and also raises serious questions about the bank's management and reinforces my concern with the competence of the boards of the banks generally," McDonald wrote.

      "It indicates a lack of knowledge, capability and responsibility in relation to the bank's risk parameters, which must be at the core of any banks competence."

      …

      "In my opinion, reflecting the false attestations alone, the chairman and chief executive of the bank should resign or be removed from role, as well as heads of risk, legal and compliance and at least two other directors should be 'retired' as part of a board 'refresh' to improve the overall competence of the board," he said.

      The RBNZ is working in a plan to force the banks in NZ to hold more capital as a bulwark against future financial shocks. The banks have embarked on a campaign of fear-mongering claiming that the RBNZ’s plan would act like “a handbrake” on our economy and ultimately lead to higher (borrowing) costs for customers.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112832162/reserve-bank–plan-has-significant-negative-consequences-for-our-country-banks?rm=m

      The New Zealand Bankers Association's (NZBA) had commissioned a report by research organisation Sapere to counter the RBNZ’s plans.

      The NZBA-commissioned report by Sapere said that the Reserve Bank's proposals focused on credit crisis, when generally in New Zealand when central authorities needed to step in to help the banking system, it tended to be because of poor management or governance, not an external shock. [my bold]

      It seems to me that ANZ New Zealand is trying to have it both ways.
12. Morrissey 12

    1 June 2019 at 11:22 am

    IRONY ALERT! Noelle McCarthy, who laughs at the suffering of political prisoners and sneers at human rights protestors, interviewed someone about "assholes" this morning.

    RNZ National, Saturday 1 June 2019

    After the 9 a.m. news the breathy, chirpy, Cork-accented Noelle McCarthy interviewed one John Walker, a Canadian who has made a documentary entitled Assholes: A Theory. According to his own publicity material, the film is "a direct response to psychology professor Aaron James' witty bestseller about why some people are assholes and how to deal with them – in an age when the trait seems to be on the rise."

    The interview itself turned out to be neither particularly amusing nor insightful. At one point Noelle McCarthy chortled knowingly when he said: "Imagine the situation when one of these assholes is actually running your country!" Perhaps she was thinking of the situation in New Zealand from 2008 to December 2016.

    The discussion was interesting, though, for what it left out: a sub-species of asshole who delights in the suffering of others. I sent the laughing hostess the following email….

    You forgot the most disgusting assholes of all

    Dear Noelle,

    In your interview about "assholes" with John Walker this morning, neither of you mentioned a particularly noxious and heinous example of the genus, viz., those unspeakable individuals who laugh at the suffering of political prisoners.

    Here's an especially repellent example of that kind of thing:

    "Heh, heh, heh. Well someone else with not such a good view is Edward Snowden. [snicker] Looks like he’s STILL in the airport! … Y-y-y-y-yeeeeeessss, …. [snort] ….he he he! He’s still in hiding. He he he! …. He he he he he! Yes he is still in that terminal! …[snort]… He he he he he he! ….[snort]…. He’s got a choice! Venezuela, Bolivia or Ecuador! …. Bolivia would be hard with the altitude! …. "

    Hopefully you can interview John Walker another time, and add that kind of vicious asshole to his list.

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen

    Northcote Point

    https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/chris-trotter-reckons-zimmerman-jury.html

    https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/08/noelle-mccarthy-is-doggedly-reigning-in.html

    https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2017/12/possibly-most-repellent-panel-pre-show.html
    • greywarshark 12.1

      1 June 2019 at 12:20 pm

      Thumbs down to Radionz for settling on ironic and cynical themes for one, and not promoting some of regular NZ journalists to the role of supporting workers which Noelle seems to be part of. Can we hear NZ voices more please, not all these British and other 5 Eyes imports who are lovely people except for one failing, they are taking a NZ place in their own country's media, and we must have better balance – aim for 80/20 perhaps.

      Remembering Flanders and Swann in reverse:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vh-wEXvdW8
13. francesca 13

    1 June 2019 at 11:27 am

    "Political prisoner and outspoken critic of Kremlin boss Vladimir Putin, Yulije Asanjey has been locked up in one of Russia's worst prisons for many years and may now face death through deliberate neglect of his medical condition

    Asanjey became famous in the 2000's through exposing Russian aggression and covert spy activities over several years

    Initially imprisoned for what many regard as trumped up charges,Asanjey has been declared the victim of torture by leading UN rapporteurs and experts on torture.

    Russia's notorious prison system has long had a deliberate policy of breaking down prisoners so that they either die or are rendered incapable of conducting an effective defence. Denial of access or very limited access to lawyers and medical attention is a common ploy

    Journalists from all over the world have expressed their support of Asanjey.

    Amnesty International , Human Rights Watch and press freedom campaigners have joined under the common banner Free Asanjey!

    The US has applied far reaching economic sanctions on Russia, for its continued flouting of UN rulings and increasing crack down on the free press"

    Oh those wicked Russians!

    Thank god we're not like that!
    • greywarshark 13.1

      1 June 2019 at 12:11 pm

      Thanks fransesca I have just thought again about doing something through Amnesty International. So will help with Free Asaney.

      Have they a continuing campaign for Assange?

      Amnesty International Get Involved
      • francesca 13.1.1

        1 June 2019 at 12:27 pm

        No.

        Amnesty's only support of Assange has been this

        https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2012/09/sweden-should-issue-assurance-it-won-t-extradite-assange-usa/

        Thats why my inclusion of them in the mock news report is ironic
        • greywarshark 13.1.1.1

          1 June 2019 at 12:58 pm

          Aha got it. But it sounded so true, and is with a reversal of approach. I still think I should support Amnesty I but sometimes the way things are done is surprising. Is Amnesty British – they could pop up to No.10 and sort everything out quite quickly, no, now I think of it they are tied up in knots, choose your own version, over Brexit and also who will be the next Clown Jester for PM.

          Here are some knots and how to tie them. This might be the most useful information that arises from the blog today.

          https://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2012/02/essential-knots-how-tie-20-knots-will-keep-you-alive#page-4
          • francesca 13.1.1.1.1

            1 June 2019 at 1:05 pm

            useful link!
            • Jenny - How to Get there? 13.1.1.1.1.1

              2 June 2019 at 9:14 am

              Another useful link:

              https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/05/31/us-figure-casualties-iraq-and-syria-hides-true-devastating-scale-civilian-deaths?cd-origin=rss&utm_term=US%20Figure%20of%20Casualties%20in%20Iraq%20and%20Syria%20Hides%20True%2C%20%27Devastating%20Scale%27%20of%20Civilian%20Deaths%2C%20Says%20Amnesty&utm_campaign=Ocasio-Cortez%20and%20Ted%20Cruz%20Agree%20%7C%20News%20%2526%20Views&utm_content=email&utm_source=Daily%20Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&cm_mmc=Act-On%20Software-_-email-_-Ocasio-Cortez%20and%20Ted%20Cruz%20Agree%20%7C%20News%20%2526%20Views-_-US%20Figure%20of%20Casualties%20in%20Iraq%20and%20Syria%20Hides%20True%2C%20%27Devastating%20Scale%27%20of%20Civilian%20Deaths%2C%20Says%20Amnesty
              • greywarshark …

                2 June 2019 at 3:38 pm

                Hi Jenny How. Another time that you rush off before telling us what it's about. I’ll set it up under a keyword presumed explanation but it’s discombobulated in it original transition to the post here.

                Jenny’s Mystery Link is Something to do with Amnesty
                • Incognito …

                  2 June 2019 at 4:41 pm

                  Indeed, many a commenter here seems to think that TS is their personal playground in which they can play by themselves or have one-on-one fun & games. At the same time, they seem to be oblivious to the fact that they are being watched, so to speak, by many silent readers of the site.
                  • Sacha …

                    2 June 2019 at 6:25 pm

                    Indeed. Many dozens for each of us who speak. All part of the community.
              • Sacha …

                2 June 2019 at 6:27 pm

                Jenny, as a general rule you can cut off anything after the question mark: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/05/31/us-figure-casualties-iraq-and-syria-hides-true-devastating-scale-civilian-deaths
        • Morrissey 13.1.1.2

          2 June 2019 at 6:12 pm

          Shamnesty, you mean.

          https://professorsblogg.com/2014/05/11/swedish-amnesty-international-voted-for-reject-support-to-human-right-issues-on-assange-snowden-and-guantanamo-prisoners/?fbclid=IwAR3oHLkw9dNCUPUPQ339vP93fFLwjtM1t1VzmynLOVefkU28mRneTz5oWg8
14. Morrissey 14

    1 June 2019 at 4:20 pm

    In 1969, Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In predicted that the Berlin Wall would be torn down in 1989, and that Reagan would be President in 1988.

    Starts at the 4:30 mark….

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEK8vZlzR1tPg2WOlZ59r8w

    Click the following link to see another outlandish prediction that came true….

    https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/who-will-be-lead-mourner-at-obamas.html
15. Observer Tokoroa 15

    1 June 2019 at 5:26 pm

    Sovereign Nations

    Do Nations have the Right to protect their Citizens, their Laws, their Trade and their Freedoms. ?

    Or do they have to put up with illegal and weird Hackers, and Uninvited camera men rumaging for so called "scandal reports" and free feeds day and night.

    I think it is proper for a Nation to clean up its own numerous flaws, before pronouncing the wickedness of others.
16. Jum 16

    1 June 2019 at 5:28 pm

    Can't seem to find this on The Standard:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12236522

    BUSINESS

    Former bank director calls for Sir John Key to be forced to resign from ANZ

    1 Jun, 2019 12:44pm
    • Incognito 16.1

      1 June 2019 at 5:54 pm

      Here: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-01-06-2019/#comment-1623499

      And here: https://thestandard.org.nz/bene-bashing/#comment-1623572
      • Jum 16.1.1

        1 June 2019 at 6:54 pm

        Thank you Incognito; I should have known it would be.
    • Muttonbird 16.2

      1 June 2019 at 5:55 pm

      Yup. The Nats' current leader is flat-out dodgy, and their four previous were crooked too:

      Shipley Corrupt dealings resulting in the collapse of Mainzeal – in court for $6M.

      Brash The Hollow Man – had the Exclusive Brethren campaign for him. Also probably a white supremacist.

      Key Where the hell do you start???

      English Paid his mates $1.7B in the dead of the night.

      Bridges Cash for list seats, and now data thief.

      What about the next one..?

      Collins Happily used Slater to intimidate public servants, ffs.

      A shit-show since 1997.
      • greywarshark 16.2.1

        2 June 2019 at 3:49 pm

        One must say they are consistent though mustn't one! And apparently those with the 3 B's – Beach and bach, BMW and Boat – are quite happy to live in a sort of rotten borough.
17. greywarshark 17

    1 June 2019 at 7:51 pm

    I wouldn't be surprised if this has been up before but it sounds good., Stephen Fry on Brexit. Called Brexit: The End Game – The Hidden Money. It starts off with the info that Europe doesn't decide on how to spend UKs money.

    He says "Britain can't take back control from the EU; because we never lost it. 99% of UK public expenditure is determined by the UK government." Immigration is different but Britain controls the major amount of immigration which is from outside the EU; 248,000 net migration compared to EU – 74,000 net migration.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HDFegpX5gI

    Edit:
    And TED talk from 2016 – Why Brexit Happened.
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcwuBo4PvE0
    Alexander Betts (British!) 18 mins

    We are embarrassingly unaware of how divided our societies are, and Brexit grew out of a deep, unexamined divide between those that fear globalization and those that embrace it, says social scientist Alexander Betts.

    How do we now address that fear as well as growing disillusionment with the political establishment, while refusing to give in to xenophobia and nationalism? Join Betts as he discusses four post-Brexit steps toward a more inclusive world.
    • aj 17.1

      1 June 2019 at 10:50 pm

      That's very good. It’s always ‘follow the money’
18. joe90 18

    1 June 2019 at 7:53 pm

    Onya, girls.

    https://twitter.com/influencer_com_/status/1133140922022023168

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/31/1861668/–These-School-Girls-Just-Aren-t-To-Take-It-Anymore-Jail-The-Molester?
19. Rosemary McDonald 19

    1 June 2019 at 8:16 pm

    If anyone still believes there are adequate protections for people with disabilities within the End Of Life Choices Bill you really need to read Chris Ford's piece posted in Newsroom.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/05/27/602948/why-i-changed-my-mind-on-euthanasia#

    I know that this will put me in the same column as Christian conservatives who also oppose the legislation for moral reasons. Personally, this makes me feel very uneasy given that I hold otherwise progressively social liberal views on issues such as abortion and reproductive rights, LGBTI rights, women’s issues and indigenous issues, etc. Yet, I want to outline from a socialist, progressive and disability rights perspective as to why I have swung my support to the anti-euthanasia camp.

    The turning point for me came about a month ago. I saw the report of a meeting hosted by disabled people’s organisation, People First (a group run by and for people with learning/intellectual disabilities) in the Central North Island. At that meeting, access to health care was discussed, as this is a key issue – particularly for people within this segment of the disability community – for whom find it difficult accessing care for many reasons, including attitudinal issues on the part of some medical professionals. This was exemplified by the stories shared at the meeting where some people – who had gone to hospital for treatment – had discovered upon reading their files that they had ‘no resuscitation’ orders attached to them. More problematically, these orders had not been requested by any of the disabled people or their families.
    • Morrissey 19.1

      1 June 2019 at 8:24 pm

      Rosemary, I'm sure your realize that there is no comparison between a decision not to prolong the artificial extension of a person's life and a decision to actively kill a patient.

      I'm not sure the likes of David Seymour and Michael Laws appreciate the difference, which is a grave concern.
      • Rosemary McDonald 19.1.1

        1 June 2019 at 9:06 pm

        This passive euthanasia is happening at an ED near you.

        My partner was bailed up by an ED supervising doctor with a clipboard a few weeks ago and was told in no uncertain terms that opting for the DNR option made perfectly good sense because, like, 'you know we'd probably break your ribs doing CPR, and you'd end up with pneumonia and its doubtful that ICU would take someone with your co-morbidities any way…' Sign here…

        He had rather dramatically passed out. He was confused upon coming round. Yet two hours later and after a battery of health and cognitive function tests he was adjudged to be in tip- top health. They even noted that his leukaemia was so far in remission that heamatology considered him 'cured'. The only 'off' thing was strangely fluctuating blood pressure, which is so common as to be considered normal… for a C5 tetraplegic.

        And it was the tetraplegia that tipped him into the 'we'd rather not bother resuscitating your sorry arse' category.

        My man, by this time, had resumed normal function and proceeded to 'negotiate' with the clipboard carrying ED doctor with his sheaf of DNR forms that he expected them to try active resuscitation for at least 15-20 minutes.
    • Ad 19.2

      1 June 2019 at 8:42 pm

      The 'Slippery Slope' arguments in practice, real life.

      Peter Singer and the rest of the Utilitarian ethicists would feel so proud.
20. Eco maori 20

    2 June 2019 at 9:21 am

    Kia ora R&R.

    Fashion needs to give way to having clothing and other goods to last decades and not mare minutes in in reality. I can remember when a new pear of jeans last 2 months and then split up the backside.

    I say buying secondhand is were the NEW fashion trend needs to go it is all read happening in some Nordic Countries very cool trend that will help preserve our mokopuna futures.

    I say making sure that the things we buy are made humanely and environmentally friendly ways that's is the way OUR future has to GO.

    I say less is best we have heaps of consumer goods that we don't need that's bad for our future and environment juses blenders pie maker pancakes maker and many other goods that we actually do need.

    Ka kite ano
21. Eco maori 21

    2 June 2019 at 9:52 am

    Kia ora hui.

    The mental health and the health of our tamariki is of utmost importance.

    I agree strongly with Mike's statement that thinking is taking to yourself.

    I'm constantly examining past events finding the TRUTH of what occurred and why things occurred.

    I agree that we need to give our tamariki confidence to nurture them tell them you love them every day and treating them with love also .I say disciplining correctly is giving them love if you can see tamariki making mistakes doing things wrong you must discipline them so they learn not to do dumb Shit and tell them you love them afterwards. conferdince is giving with aroha

    Ka kite ano
22. Eco maori 22

    2 June 2019 at 1:29 pm

    https://youtu.be/qQfetkoGrpU
23. Eco maori 23

    2 June 2019 at 2:49 pm

    Whanau Eco Maori did not like the way shonky was ruining Aotearoa I could see it a mile away his underarm plays.

    This story proves it he is a cheat the 00.1 % cheat all the time as they know that a fraction of there money that they gain from cheating will buy them impunity

    A sense of unfairness, and wanting to see power held to account, I think has contributed to the explosion of interest in the call for former prime minister Sir John Key, chairman of our biggest bank, to resign.

    ANZ's board, led by the former leader of our country, had been signing off on an operational risk model (which works out how much capital the bank needs in case of a shock or economic downturn) that had actually been dumped in

    The ANZ board is stocked with people who you might assume would know a thing or three about bank capital.

    How did this come about? The Reserve Bank "had encouraged" ANZ to review its attestation process, through which bank directors assess whether the bank is complying with the conditions of its regulations. It was only after this nudge that ANZ discovered the problem.

    But before you get hot about it, it's cool. The Reserve Bank made it hold more money in case of a rainy day rather than lend it out in profitable ways like mortgages.

    When the Reserve Bank found out, it stripped ANZ of its right to calculate how much risk capital it will hold. Yes, it used to be able to decide this itself.

    This means our biggest bank is required to hold a further $277 million, taking it to a total of about $760m in case of bad news.

    Kerry McDonald was chairman of BNZ for 12 years until 2008 and also sat on the board of its owners, National Australia Bank from 2005 to 2008.

    Ouchie.

    Now, ANZ won't like this one bit. This ruling increases the minimum capital ANZ must hold by around 60 per cent.

    As Simplicity founder Sam Stubbs has pointed out, one reason profits are so high here is the Australian owned banks have to provide less capital than locally owned banks to support their lending.

    So this will hurt ANZ in the wallet. But with the chunky-profits these Aussie banks make here, I think ANZ (who earned a record profit a sniff under $2 billion in the last financial year just in New Zealand) will cope.

    MORE FROM
    REBECCA STEVENSON • NATIONAL BUSINESS EDITOR
    rebecca.stevenson@stuff.co.nz

    But no-one has been held to account.

    Unlike former BNZ chairman Kerry McDonald, who wrote to Reserve Bank governor Adrian Orr to call for heads to roll, I am neither amazed, nor surprised, at the penalty imposed on the bank. Thanks Dad.

    He argues that Key, chief executive David Hisco, the highest paid bank executive in New Zealand who is currently off on sick leave, and several others, at ANZ should resign.

    The bank's board had been signing this off for years, apparently without noticing if you give them the benefit of the doubt.

    And it has to be said, Sir John Key wasn't there in 2014, 2015 or 2016 – joining the bank with his shiny new title smartly after leaving Parliament in 2017.

    The board is stocked with people who you might assume would know a thing or three about banking. Ka kite ano p.s I smelt a korori

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/113182741/when-rules-are-merely-suggestions-youre-probably-rich-or-powerful
24. Eco maori 24

    2 June 2019 at 3:23 pm

    I agree with Sadiq Khan trump and his alt right m8 are shorting the world political they will make a big mess of our Papatuanuku and take human rights back a hundred years if the leftys don’t get up and stop them

    Donald Trump is like a 20th-century fascist, says Sadiq Khan

    The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has compared the language used by Donald Trump to rally his supporters to that of “the fascists of the 20th century” in an explosive intervention before the US president’s state visit to London that begins on Monday.

    Writing in the Observer, Khan condemned the red-carpet treatment being afforded to Trump who, with his wife Melania, will be a guest of the Queen during his three-day stay, which is expected to provoke massive protests in the capital on Tuesday

    Khan said: “President Donald Trump is just one of the most egregious examples of a growing global threat. The far right is on the rise around the world, threatening our hard-won rights and freedoms and the values that have defined our liberal, democratic societies for more than 70 years.

    It’s un-British to roll out the red carpet for Donald Trump

    Read more

    “Viktor Orbán in Hungary, Matteo Salvini in Italy, Marine Le Pen in France and Nigel Farage here in the UK are using the same divisive tropes of the fascists of the 20th century to garner support, but with new sinister methods to deliver their message. And they are gaining ground and winning power and influence in places that would have been unthinkable just a few years ago

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/01/donald-trump-like-20th-century-fascist-says-sadiq-khan
    • Ad 24.1

      2 June 2019 at 6:28 pm

      Donald Trump is a populist and a nationalist of the largest economy and still most powerful country on earth. Khan is the current Mayor of one city, and an outsider within his own Labour Party.

      Trump is not a Nazi, despite all the protestations of Madeline Albright et al. He's just a self-interested thug making bank for his family for a few years before he's turfed next year.

      The hard right had their chance in the EU elections last week, and they showed they didn't have what it takes to storm the castle and start dismantling.
25. Eco maori 25

    2 June 2019 at 6:27 pm

    Kia Newshub.

    The Youth Rainbow community needs to be shown respect as all people do.

    I say that the airline should be included in the plan to mitigate climate change this will make them chase alternatives powers for planes.

    trump has to remember that every word he says bounces around the world media I sort of know what that is like.

    The foxglacia council should have cleaned up the dump mess I say that they have had enough money to clean it up.

    It's a hard task getting whare at the minute I would not like to try and rent a whare with tamariki these days you would need to no the owner or have a wand.

    That's the way Julain championing the poverty of the Ugandan people and tamariki is bad ka pai M8.

    Ka kite ano
26. Eco maori 26

    2 June 2019 at 6:48 pm

    Kia ora te ao Maori news.

    Eco Maori say those people who have thrown darts at the Rainbow community are only thinking about their public profiles and not the damage they have done to the people of the Rainbow community.

    Te Whare tu is helping keep tangata whenua O Aotearoa cultural going strong ka pai I get a sore face knowing that OUR culture is getting te mana back.

    I totally agree us Maori men are portrayed as violent thefting thugs that really PISSs Eco Maori off thanks for making films that show Maori men in a cleaner light.

    Cool I tau toko you for encouraging Maori to seek a higher education .

    Ka kite ano
27. Eco maori 27

    3 June 2019 at 8:26 am

    These are the people who rule our Papatuanuku I hope they can see that most people want a better future for there tamariki and NOW is the time to embrace the change if they don't jump on the Climate Mitigation Waka they will be left in OUR dust time to dump CARBON.

    Security at the wharf was drum tight. Amid a sea of secret service personnel, Pompeo was accompanied by the US ambassador to Switzerland, Ed McMullen. The pair looked keen to continue the geopolitical strategizing over canapés.

    The secretary general of Nato, Jens Stoltenberg, was flanked by heavily armed bodyguards as he strode along the jetty. He has attended the last three Bilderberg meetings, turning up for “informal discussions” with a watchful squad of security and staff

    Bilderberg has a keen and growing interest in high-tech and AI. Schmidt’s fellow Bilderberg insider Peter Thiel, the billionaire founder of PayPal and a director of Facebook, was seen arriving with the Swedish physicist and AI expert Sara Mazur ka kite ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/02/bilderberg-pompeo-kushner-nato-stoltenberg
28. Eco maori 28

    3 June 2019 at 11:51 am

    Its thanks to people like Blomfield who have the mana to stand up to people like Slater and don't let Slaters intimidating tactics scare them into staying silent.

    If it wasn't for people like Blomfield we would not have found out about the $40.000 double dip by a well known MP.

    People like Blomfield are few and far between quite rear so Eco Maori is asking everyone to tau toko Blomfield and BUY HIS BOOK he deserves the leftys tau toko.

    The case was never about defamation. It has been a way that Blomfield could force his tormenter to verify the fantasies being presented as fact on his now disgraced blog. Slater failed and was finally impaled by a harpoon that he had unleashed, ultimately on himself

    As the stories dragged on and I got to know Blomfield better, I told him not to worry. The lies told about him were not as appalling as the truth frequently told about me. But the lies were having a toll and this unwanted fight with a cyber thug with connections to the highest offices in the land was taxing what was an otherwise irrepressible spirit.

    Blomfield, it needs to be said, and I am pleased to say it, isn't a man to be dissuaded by slander, intimidation or a gunman discharging a shotgun in his face. For seven years he took Slater and his cohort of degenerates through the long and painful process of a defamation trial.

    The case was never about defamation. It has been a way that Blomfield could force his tormenter to verify the fantasies being presented as fact on his now disgraced blog. Slater failed and was finally impaled by a harpoon that he had ka kite ano link below.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/113082451/cameron-slaters-thuggish-ways-stymied-after-long-and-painful-defamation-case
29. Eco maori 29

    3 June 2019 at 1:13 pm

    Ka pai Pio for championing tiny houses and sustainable live off the land + clean energy solar power we need more tangata like you to champion the cause.

    Our Mokopuna futures depend on people like us never giving up the cause.

    TV personality Pio Terei is hatching a tiny house plan.

    It was a plan that needed some research first. So he hopped on his electric bike and headed off to seek out some of the country's most innovative home owners; Kiwis who've chucked caution and convention to the wind to live sustainably and build the life of their dreams on their own terms. And boy, did he find them, dwelling in everything from teepees to whare uke, from container houses to earth ships.

    Those encounters became Off The Grid,an eight episode TV series from Māori Television that aims to inspire viewers to give sustainable living a go. There's the sharing of practical advice and a few laughs along the way. Talking to him a couple of months before the show is set to air, it seems to have the actor, singer and comedian all fired up for a tiny house of his own

    Ka kite ano links below P.S I know what you're name means kia ora

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/celebrity-homes/113111219/off-the-grid-pio-tereis-building-a-tiny-house-and-reckons-you-should-too

    https://e-tangata.co.nz/korero/pio-terei-im-meant-to-be-here-bro/
30. Eco maori 30

    3 June 2019 at 3:34 pm

    Kia kaha to the Youth climate activist it is your futures WE are fighting for go hard it makes me happy to see that the climate is taking center stage now after all the Strikes you have staged.

    Youth climate activists set for nationwide rallies ahead of landmark case

    Students in Austin, Texas, want you to veg out. Kids in Westport, Connecticut will screen a film. And in rural North Carolina, activists will draw on a toxic spill to commemorate the environmental justice movement. The slogan refers to the landmark court case in Oregon in which 21 youths are suing the United States government over climate change.

    Named for Kelsey Juliana, a 23-year-old activist and college student, the case was filed in 2015 and is headed back to court on Tuesday. The campaign to raise its profile – dubbed #IAmJuliana or #AllEyesOnJuliana – is the brainchild of Our Children’s Trust, the organization behind the lawsuit, and Future Coalition, the not-for-profit network forged to empower youth after the Parkland shooting.

    A youth activist on the climate crisis: politicians won't step up.

    What’s unique about the campaign is what it signals: the infrastructure behind the youth climate movement is growing, decentralizing, and gaining momentum, all while activists set sights on the 2020 election

    All of these rallies will be part of an international campaign on Saturday to spotlight environmental issues. Their message: Ka kite ano link below

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/31/i-am-juliana-climate-protests-youth-activism
31. Eco maori 31

    3 June 2019 at 6:26 pm

    Kia ora Newshub.

    Its cool to see more Wahine receiving houners congrats Grame you deserve your tohu houner I remember when the Kiwi players of old going hard At the Sea Eagles Billaria.

    The Aviation industry has to change to green fuels or everyone will just use skipe for business meetings they will save money and carbon being burned to protect their children futures.

    Its not on that the Richmonds have to fight for custody of their mokopuna from the man who killed their daughter.

    Its good that Ken got his houner for his mahi of looking after men who have been abused .

    Alex I think there's snow on te monga

    Ka kite ano
32. Eco maori 32

    3 June 2019 at 6:44 pm

    Kia ora te ao Maori News.

    Congratulations for your win in the Netball.

    Kia ora Patsy's for your honorable recognition of your services to he tangata.

    I agree the tabaco taxs are hurting Maori in the hip pocket but the amount of people at the hospital with respiratory problems has dropped dramatically we need programs to help our people quit smoking.

    Redcross needs more donations to help cope with the huge numbers needing their good help dig deep Whanau you can find the Red Cross site online.

    Ka kite ano P.S I will put up a link to Redcross site

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