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Open Mike 01/09/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 1st, 2018 - 106 comments
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106 comments on “Open Mike 01/09/2018 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    In my opinion, it should be a considered a conflict of interest for any MP to be a landlord.

    Claiming tenants like letting fees is a sick joke that underlines the need for change
    Madeleine Holden – Newshub, August 31, 2018

    When it comes to housing, we have things much worse here than investors like Mr King would have us believe, both internationally and according to standards of basic decency.

    More than 40,000 peoplelive on the streets, in emergency housing or in substandard shelters in New Zealand, and thousands of children suffer from preventable diseases like whooping cough and rheumatic fever because they live in cold, damp, overcrowded homes; yet 33,000 vacant houses in Auckland alone gather dust, deliberately left empty by property speculators rubbing their hands with glee while prices increase. That’s f**ked.

    Pardon me, but that’s absolutely f**ked, and anyone with a functioning conscience should agree that it’s f**ked.

    The Labour government’s proposed changes to New Zealand’s rental system suggest bare-minimum protections for tenants, and we need them yesterday.

    Opposition by the Property Investors Federation is heartless and self-interested, and Mr King’s suggestion that tenants actually enjoy the extra costs landlords heap on them is a sick joke.

    • Stuart Munro 1.1

      Well said.

      I wonder if tenants don’t need a body to counter the self-serving spin of slumlords, the way unions have had to dilute the narrative of exploitive employers. Some kind of tenants union maybe.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 1.2

      Andrew King responded in the comments section making it clearer that what he actually said was that some tenants liked paying the letting fee because it let them secure the property ahead of others.

      • Sabine 1.2.1

        I call Bullshit, as you only pay the letting fee once the rental company agrees to let the property to you. You pay the letting fee with your bond and your first two weeks of rent.
        So essentially in order to move into a property you need to be able to sort at the very least 6 weeks of rental money or 7 weeks. 3 – 4 weeks bond, 2 weeks rent, 1 week of rent + GST for letting fee.

        Me thinks the bullshitter does protest to much.

        • David Mac 1.2.1.1

          Yep, BS. We have letting fees because the margins are so skinny for the property management divisions of Real Estate franchises that without them many operations would cease to be viable.

          • dukeofurl 1.2.1.1.1

            The other way round .

            It used to be called ‘key money’ and the reason they could get away with it previously was the shortage of rentals.
            For prime commercial properties the key money was enormous.

            • David Mac 1.2.1.1.1.1

              I’m not sure what you mean Duke. I thought key money for residential properties had always been illegal. These days letting fees are so common WINZ have been adding them to ‘move-in’ grants for several years.

              Property management companies generally charge owners around 8% of the rent income. This sum is then split approx 50/50 between the property manager and the parent office franchise.

              50 properties returning an average of $400 per week rent provide the property management division with an income of $1600 per week. Split 50/50 = $800 for the office and $800 for the manager. The manager is generally obliged to pay for their vehicle, phone, ACC and tax from their $800. This equates to an in the hand wage of about $400 per week.

              This is why the industry has become dependent on letting fees. 3-4 new lets each month doubles incomes.

              As Sabine points out, Mr Kings reasons for a letting fee are BS. The industry model would fall over if letting fees were banned…or a new creative way to milk end users and/or owners introduced.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.2

        Which probably means that these people are bribing the agents with the bribe then being incorporated into the letting fee so as to hide it.

    • AB 1.3

      And also a conflict of interest to have private health insurance or children in private schools. They should use the systems they are responsible for maintaining.

    • Anne 2.1

      Bring back the stocks I say. Stack em up in the town centres so we can hurl cabbages and tomatoes at them. When sufficiently sodden with tomato juice, remove them to a desert island and leave them to drown in the rising sea levels.

      Seriously, they’re brain-addled letters are still showing up in the ‘letters to the editor’ section of the newspapers. Why are newspapers printing them? And don’t anyone come the free speech garbage with me. These people are indeed crackpots and they should not be given platforms from which they can spread their dangerous message to the gullible.

      Such people were locked up in WW2, and we’re in a war situation right now due to Climate Change.

      • Anne 2.1.1

        Yep… it should be ‘their’ not they’re.

        Out of bed on the wrong side this morning.

      • veutoviper 2.1.2

        Get real, Anne. Tomatoes???? Not at their current price!

        Seriously, a good ‘get real’ speech. Good on the Samoan PM.

        And Morrison is not getting off to a good start with Australia’s Pacific neighbours, as mentioned in that article:

        “Australia’s new prime minister, Scott Morrison, is under pressure from some members of his party to abandon Australia’s commitment to reducing emissions under the Paris agreement.

        His immediate predecessor, Malcolm Turnbull, was due to attend the forum, but Morrison has announced he is sending his new foreign minister, Marisa Payne, a move the opposition Labor party condemned as “an insult to our neighbours” as well as “a serious strategic mistake”.”

        As not mentioned, instead he went to Indonesia to sign a free trade agreement.

        • Anne 2.1.2.1

          Get real, Anne. Tomatoes???? Not at their current price!

          Oops, I don’t eat tomatoes. 😳

          • veutoviper 2.1.2.1.1

            Neither do I at present due to price! LOL. I must get ‘with it ‘on smilies. Liked your comment though!

    • Sabine 2.2

      Not sure if you saw this.

      But this frenchy had enough and quit live on radio

      Quote” Mr. Hulot was initially best known to the French public for presenting television shows that aimed to raise awareness about the environment. He later created an environmental foundation and was nominated in 2012 by the French presidency as a special climate envoy ahead of the 2015 Paris summit meeting that led to the signing of the climate deal.

      “The planet is becoming a sauna, our natural resources are running out, biodiversity is melting like snow in the sun, and it still isn’t being handled like a priority issue,” he lamented on Tuesday.Quote End.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/world/europe/france-environment-minister-nicolas-hulot.html

      • greywarshark 2.2.1

        The French politicians may prefer light-hearted, clever humour to serious stuff that makes life more precarious and difficult in their role as people’s leaders serving the people democratically. But one revolution doesn’t solve all centuries’ problems. See below –

        Maybe they should use Les Vacances de Monsieur Hulot as a bon bon in between the sour and irksome task of listening to modern M. Hulot. Every hour, after intense and unpleasant discussion, a little more of M. Hulot’s Holiday to decrease their indigestion.
        Short clips:

        (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGUIpdc0i4

        S’il vous plaît profiter du film en langue française.
        (https://archive.org/details/TatiLesVacancesDeMonsieurHulot

        Vive M. Hulot!

        May 1968 events in France – Wikipedia
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968_events_in_France
        The volatile period of civil unrest in France during May 1968 was punctuated by demonstrations … The student occupations and wildcat general strikes initiated across France were ….. While Communist leaders later denied that they had planned an armed uprising, and extreme militants only comprised 2% of the populace, …
        ‎Protests of 1968 · ‎Wildcat strike action · ‎Gaullist Party

        In between there have been the Second World War 1939-1945,
        and the First World War 1914-1918. (They were the largest military conflicts in human history. Both wars involved military alliances between different groups of countries. Wikipedia)

        French Revolution of 1848 – Wikipedia
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution_of_1848
        On May 31, 15,000 jobless French rioted as rising xenophobia persecuted Belgian workers in the north. In 1848, 479 newspapers were founded alongside a 54% decline in the number of businesses in Paris, as most wealth had evacuated the city.

        The French Revolution (French: Révolution française [ʁevɔlysjɔ̃ fʁɑ̃sɛːz]) was a period of far-reaching social and political upheaval in France and its colonies that lasted from 1789 until 1799. It was partially carried forward by Napoleon during the later expansion of the French Empire.
        French Revolution – Wikipedia
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

        • Sabine 2.2.1.1

          i honestly don’t follow you. Sometimes i really don’t get it.

          Maybe this is a better way of looking at the resignation of the French Environmental Minister.

          La Belle Verte
          https://vimeo.com/214163453

          • greywarshark 2.2.1.1.1

            Well I thought it was a bad thing that M Hulot stepped down because he wasn’t being heard. And I suggested that the French are not living up to the ideals of their numerous revolutions, and should be listening to M Hulot even if they have to take a break for air and some relaxation FTTT.

    • bwaghorn 3.1

      garners just pissy because the government didn’t jump when he said around the sick traveller .
      Ardern calmed businesses nerves and nailed it by standing down the bully pending investigation .that’s a pass in my books.
      Little duncs just a pretender to hoskings toxic throne.

      • Anne 3.1.1

        I agree Garner has gone over the top with his criticism – especially in the second half of the article. But there is some truth in what he says. Two cabinet minsters are showing signs they are wanting, and both of them are women. Not a good look.

        Far better to cut their losses as soon as is practicable… before they become liabilities. Helen Clark did it and so did John Key.

        • dukeofurl 3.1.1.1

          Garner , the guy who said his name being amoung those leaked on the dating website Ashley Madison, was an imposter.
          His 3rd marriage broke up less than 18 months later.

    • cleangreen 3.2

      Good comment there James.

      Trouble with Jacinda is she was not strong enough from the start as we all respecrt a strong woman as our leader dont we.

      History told us that when faced with aggression such as Britains war with Argintena over the Falklands Island invassion Margret Thatcher stepped up to that challenge but when a junior Labour MP like Clare curran hands a hand grenade to her oer Curran’s botch-ups, all jacinda did was just cowered and folded.

      So she needs to harden up and look decisive now; – as time is ticking.

      Just look at jacindas Government now folding to the trucking lobby as she allows the Aucklander Phil Twyiord train wreck to roll on, – as he announces a massive road spending program of $11 Billion for just roading improvements for trucking freight to Ports and not allowing for any money for any regional rail services!!!!!!!

      What a fuck-up that was!!!

      Another lost cause or broken promises to her generation that faces “Climate change – her generations nucear moment”

      trucking lobby ‘ = one.

      jacindas generation Climate change nuclear moment. = zero.

      • solkta 3.2.1

        Wouldn’t it be great if we could have a powerful female leader who could drive forcefully the wasting of human life for political gain.

      • Incognito 3.2.2

        So she needs to harden up and look decisive now

        Different leaders have different styles and I think that our PM should stick to her style and not try to become like (copy) so many other so-called (male) leaders. I think the PM is doing just fine; she ain’t perfect but that’s a ridiculous standard anyway and depends on whom you ask anyway (as in: you cannot please everyone all the time).

    • Fireblade 3.3

      Stuff nails it this morning.

      So who’s up and who’s down this week?

      UP
      Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, Immigration Minister Iain Lees Galloway, Civil Defence Minister Kris Faafoi.

      DOWN
      National leader Simon Bridges, Labour Party president Nigel Haworth, Customs Minister Meka Whaitiri.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/106694559/below-the-beltway

      Sums up National’s week well.

      • Fireblade 3.3.1

        National is a joke.

        “National leader Simon Bridges – his hunt for the person who leaked his travel expenses could put him on a collision course with MPs who don’t want the party trawling through their private emails and might explode in his face if it turns out to be a National MP” Stuff.

    • Ed 3.4

      This proves things.

      1. Garner ( like most to the corporate media puppets), in return for a five figure salary, pimps for the deep state.
      2 You pimp for the deep state.

  2. James 4

    Called business nerves – hahahahahahaha you’re delusional if you think that.

    They should bring the women home.

    Oh and there was the borrowing by housing NZ via the loophole.

    Labour is a joke.

    • A joke in power and your lot aren’t even a bad joke so ha ha ha james

    • Muttonbird 4.2

      You can’t even manage to make a comment here without screwing it up, or is this an example of your recurring dyslexia?

      The joke is you.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.3

      Governments should ignore business and business should have no say in the running of the country. They’re the ones that are getting it all wrong because all they want is to get richer and they simply don’t care how much it costs the rest of us.

      Business is killing us.

      • Kat 4.3.1

        I recall a meeting with Michael Barnett CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber back in the early 2000’s where he stated that “what is good for business is good for New Zealand”. Many bought into that notion. Barnett still buys into it even today. At the time that quip didn’t quite gel with me as I had seen too many business’s prosper from being ruthless operators and some horrific polluters of the environment. Since then it has certainly become obvious that what was good for many business’s has been really bad for New Zealand.

        • Carolyn_Nth 4.3.1.1

          where he stated that “what is good for business is good for New Zealand”. Many bought into that notion.

          It’s the Randian con: basically saying, “What makes me rich is good for everyone.”

          It’s amazing they’ve got away with such self-serving BS for so long, without the whole world laughing int heir faces.

      • Grey Area 4.3.2

        Nailed it DTB. (Phrase of the day).

      • Ed 4.3.3

        Completely spot on, as ever.

      • Dennis Frank 4.3.4

        True, but until we get another option the status quo will continue: most people can’t remain alive unless employed in a business. Remember the old socialist idea that governments ought to fund everyone’s subsistence? Socialist governments kept business to provide the money to do so. Which alternative to business funding do you advise us to switch to instead of that?

        • Draco T Bastard 4.3.4.1

          True, but until we get another option the status quo will continue: most people can’t remain alive unless employed in a business.

          Change all businesses so that they’re a self-owned cooperative.

          Remember the old socialist idea that governments ought to fund everyone’s subsistence? Socialist governments kept business to provide the money to do so.

          And they failed because they kept the old, failed business model. The same business model that goes back thousands of years and which has always brought about the destruction of the society that used it.

          Which alternative to business funding do you advise us to switch to instead of that??

          Technically, the government doesn’t need funding. Indications are that it’s government spending and deficits that keeps private businesses going.

          The government owns all the resources in the country. Because of this they can simply create money and pay it out to utilise those resources, to hire people to produce what the country needs.

          Like this.

          • Dennis Frank 4.3.4.1.1

            Yes, I agree with that brief outline of a viable alternative. Next step is for others to get on board in support. Then a political party to campaign on the basis of Monty Python’s slogan: “and now for something completely different”!

            Keith ought to do an update of that analysis with appropriate conclusions and where to from here, eh? If you know the guy, suggest it to him. I recall attending a UBI seminar he presented in the early nineties, plus several of his papers were included in our process by JF when she led the GP economic policy working group back then. For those interested, here’s the Rankin site: http://new.rankinfile.co.nz/

  3. SaveNZ 5

    Interesting data here about productivity and population growth. Getting rid of a few myths like for example that Israel is some sort of powerhouse of productivity.

    https://croakingcassandra.com/2017/05/18/two-improbable-outposts/

    It also is nailing what is going wrong with NZ, instead of spending tax money on high value investment and actually making ” high value things” or even “high value services” we are hinging our future on spending it on houses and roads to house more people who work at places like Burger King and hotels on close to minimum wages… or selling off our assets to others and just getting a small clip on the ticket. The stats show this will not work, our productivity is declining and at the bottom of the OECD.

    Sadly, NZ ranks in the bottom 5 OECD countries for productivity and Israel and NZ are both there with the same problem, rapidly expanding populations. The costs to create all that new infrastructure are huge and NZ has an even more bizarre strategy of getting in low wage workers so therefore putting the burden on supporting them on the rest of the population taking more taxes away from productive areas they could be spending on as well as increasing social problems like more people in prison while crying nobody will employ them. Why would they, there are migrant labour hire firms touting cheap labour at every corner and making a killing being the middle man??? Likewise the private education firms aimed at foreigners, also making a killing while providing an appalling level of education and many having to be closed down, and funnelling in cheap workers.

    We all hear about all the lobbying about how we need all these migrants for tourism. Nothing about opportunity for Maori interest to advance in. I would have thought the tourists visiting a country want to see indigenous people working in those places otherwise they might as well be in another country. The Maori economy is 15%, tourism is growing, wouldn’t that be a better combination to explore, and look at practically reducing the terrible statistics for many Maori and creating opportunities for them in?

    More

    • Draco T Bastard 5.1

      The Maori economy is 15%, tourism is growing, wouldn’t that be a better combination to explore, and look at practically reducing the terrible statistics for many Maori and creating opportunities for them in?

      Tourism, as we’re learning, is a really expensive form of low paying work. A few people may do well from it but the rest of the country will be worse off.

      And that’s before we take climate change into account.

      I’m all for the government investing in high value manufacturing and better education to support it but the government actually needs to be limiting tourism.

      • greywarshark 5.1.1

        save nz and DracoTBastard
        You are getting dangerously close to the truth there, and confirming the theories around the problems. I’m afraid that someone will knock on your door late at night and we will never hear from you again. Please keep safe, it seems that there is a glimmer of light coming through here.

        Defenceless under the night
        Our world in stupor lies;
        Yet, dotted everywhere,
        Ironic points of light
        Flash out wherever the Just
        Exchange their messages:
        (from 1 September 1939 WH Auden)

  4. SaveNZ 6

    “I’ve argued for some years, that rapid population growth can crowd out other business activities. The basic logic is pretty simple. New people – whether born or migrant – need new capital stock. A modern economy requires rather a lot of (physical) capital per person (houses, roads, offices, schools, shops, machines etc) and real resources that have to be devoted to meeting the needs and demand of the new people, can’t be used for other purposes. It is often those “other purposes” that seem to get squeezed out – in particular, investment in the tradables sector. People have to live somewhere, so that demand is often more inelastic (insensitive to changes in price) than is potential investment in support of new business opportunities”

    https://croakingcassandra.com/2017/05/18/two-improbable-outposts/

    • cleangreen 6.1

      100% SaveNZ.

      Productivity is a myth that drives the problems we all are ecountering todaay with air pollution, climarte change and decreasing oxgen levels in our atmospheric air we breathe so we are well on the way to extingquishing our lives as we chast the ellusive “productivity”

      last week the World health organisation rleased the findings of the largest study of the human damage caused by air pollution and it confirms that living near busy “productive” roads will cause brain damage and other damages to us all so we are really stuffed now.

      Taske a look at this;

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=-m3HfZke6_w

      Breaking News – Pollution ‘harms cognitive intelligence’
      Air pollution could cause a significant reduction in intelligence, major study says
      • Research finds that long-term exposure to air pollution impeded people’s performance in both verbal and math tests.
      • More than four million people die each year from exposure to outdoor air pollution, according to the World Health Organization.
      Air pollution could cause a significant reduction in intelligence, major study says
      • Research finds that long-term exposure to air pollution impeded people’s performance in both verbal and math tests.
      • More than four million people die each year from exposure to outdoor air pollution, according to the World Health Organization.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1

        Productivity is a myth that drives the problems we all are ecountering todaay with air pollution, climarte change and decreasing oxgen levels in our atmospheric air we breathe so we are well on the way to extingquishing our lives as we chast the ellusive “productivity”

        It’s not productivity doing that – it’s the profit drive and the greed of the capitalists.

        Increasing productivity means one of two things in a society.

        1. The society can shift people away from one industry into another while still providing everything that the first industry provided.
        2. Could go from not providing enough of something to providing enough without increasing the number of people used in that industry. This usually also comes with increases in efficiency – in using less resources to provide the same or more.

        More than four million people die each year from exposure to outdoor air pollution, according to the World Health Organization.

        Last time I looked (admittedly quite a few years ago) there were an estimated 400 premature deaths in NZ from road pollution. More than half of them in Auckland.

  5. Observer Tokoroa 7

    Hi James

    Has Duncan nailed the terrible leaker who has been troubling Simon Bridges? I think it is a real shame that there has been no closure on such a simple problem.

    Makes poor Simon look even less competent than Duncan – who knows everything.

    • cleangreen 7.1

      Observer Tokoroa;

      Thanks for that; – you put a smile on my saddened face today; thanks eternally for that.

  6. Naki man 8

    Helen Clark said heads would have rolled if Labour’s youth camp sex scandal had
    occurred on her watch.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12116497

    • cleangreen 8.1

      Yes I have always deeply admired helen clark she was the very best we had.

      As usual the press used their Venom to make Helen look somewhat evil when she was the most effective woman Prime minister we had.

      Helen needs to coach Jacinda up here now.

      Most National past PM’s did this so i dont see any issues in suggesting this.

      Jacinda has a lot to learn and now is the time to begin.

      • Robert Guyton 8.1.1

        Jacinda began learning long ago, cleangreen and any discussions with Helen today won’t be the first.

        • cleangreen 8.1.1.1

          Robert;

          I certainly hope Helen is keeping jacinda briefed Robert;

          As I recieved several letters from Helen Clark as PM during the stormy days in 2003 when the arrogant roading lobby was pushing massive amounts of truck traffic through our residential ‘noise sensittive quiet zones’ areas in Napier.

          Helen Clark took the lead to assist us,and she slowed their activities back to a reasonable manner and she arranged to have provided ($2m) – two million Dolllars for our community groups to get some much needed ‘mitigation’ for our 24hr 2400 truck activities roaming thriough our residential ‘quiet noise zones’ and since then the trucking lobby under national have been successful in trebbling road freight levels and ruining our health and lives.

          Helen needs to assist Jacinda and to do what helen did to send Phil Twyford here to the HB Expressway to meet with our community Committee as Helen did and she confirmed this with us in a letter she sent to me as secretary of our residential area and she made good on her promises made to us by sending her minister for transport Mark Gosche then in 2003 with Finance Minister Michael Cullen and the CEO of Transit NZ (NZTA now) to meet with our committee then on the noisy poorly built “HB Expressway” to help so our community.

          It is now Jacinda’s turn to step up as ‘champion for our community in Napier’ as Helen Clark was then in 2003.

          Parliamentary commisioners report was warning government to act and they did then and need to again now sadly.

          Labour’s resolutions to our long standing transport issues and how to solve them as suggested by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment in his 2005 report seen here. https://www.pce.parliament.nz/media/pdfs/Hawkes-Bay-Expressway-Noise-and-air-quality-issues-June-2005.pdf

      • Incognito 8.1.2

        My idea of coaching/mentoring is to enable people to be the best they can be. Your idea seems somewhat different?

      • veutoviper 8.1.3

        Helen Clark has been mentoring Jacinda Ardern for almost 20 years, cleangreen. After finishing university in 2001, Ardern worked as a researcher in Helen Clark’s office in Parliament when Clark was PM and they have been close friends and colleagues ever since. Clark is only one of many – but one of the most influential, who have helped Ardern over the years to grow and learn to the point that she was elected as Leader of the Labour Party at the age of 37.

    • Robert Guyton 8.2

      Nah, she didn’t; she said, “…people wouldn’t have kept their jobs..” – the violent image you invoked is yours, not hers; Helen’s far more nuanced with her language than you are, naki and that’s just one criticism I have of your “naki” style comment.

      • Incognito 8.2.1

        Don’t use the n-word, please!

      • greywarshark 8.2.2

        I read in that link of Helen Clark’s interview:
        She said we live in an era “where you just have to expect the unexpected”.
        “When you’re planning, you need to put the wildest scenarios on the table, because anything is possible.”

        The other part of that saying is…’but you can’t count on it’.

        Helen Clark didn’t say anything unexpected this time, but followed a line that would be expected from her talking about her preoccupations and her time. And thinking of the wildest scenarios – if that happens it is quickly reined in by groupthink, peer pressure and Treasury intelligence and overview.

        Helen Clark’s opinion should be kept under wraps; it is no more welcome to me as a citizen than Jenny Shipley’s. Jacinda Ardern and Helen Clark could usefully talk about every quarter, but we elected Jacinda and I expect to hear her speak up about her vision and practical polices for us as we voters expected. I don’t want to hear the unexpected of Helen Clark usurping Jacinda in the news or anywhere.

        Helen did very well in her day which is not now. So I suggest she doesn’t muddy the waters as we have enough old Labourites eager to put their oar in already. We are rowing and trying to go in the right direction, and old Labourites seem more inclined to the right adding to the RW-aligned pullers; and the result is direction diversion and going round in circles, literally.

      • Naki man 8.2.3

        “Nah, she didn’t; she said, “…people wouldn’t have kept their jobs..” – the violent image you invoked is yours, not hers”

        Bullshit, next time learn to read the link before making a fool of yourself.

        “Speaking to the Rotorua Daily Post after a Q&A session at the Property Council New Zealand national conference in Rotorua today, Clark said heads would have rolled if Labour’s youth camp sex scandal had occurred on her watch.”

        • greywarshark 8.2.3.1

          Naki man
          It’s that nuance you lack. Why not stick to rugby. Things are so much more straightforward there.

        • Dennis Frank 8.2.3.2

          See 8.2.4: reality really is goddam slippery to get a hold of sometimes! Like an eel. Ever try to grab one? Both you & RG were right. Just another instance of folks assuming stuff is either true or false. Both/and logic often applies instead.

        • Robert Guyton 8.2.3.3

          I look for quotation marks. When I see them, I assume that inside of them is what a person said. When someone else says,”this person said”, I’m doubly careful not to accept the attribution without finding more reliable evidence. Clark may have said what naki claims, but there was no convincing evidence for that in the link he provided. I reckon.

      • Dennis Frank 8.2.4

        Reality? “The former prime minister told the Rotorua Daily Post yesterday that heads would have rolled had the scandal occurred under her leadership. “Draw your own conclusions, go back to how I dealt with things like this, people wouldn’t have kept their jobs,” she said.”

        The anonymous journo who put this on the TVNZ website may be telling the truth, may be misreporting what Bryce Edwards said, may be misreporting what HC said.
        https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/helen-clark-wouldnt-have-meant-fire-youth-camp-sex-scandal-missile-jacinda-ardern-says-political-analyst

  7. Observer Tokoroa 9

    Hi Cleangreen

    I do often think of You and the good causes you promote.

    Sometimes I wonder if very shortly Councils, Provinces and Government will force every car off the roads and highways that race across our marvellous North Island.

    Just so that 50 Ton Trucks and their loads can take over and Kill at will. Wreck constantly the Roads into subsidence and rip up the peace. Day and Night.

    There is hardly a foot of free width either side of our monster trucks- thundering along with a quivering trailer behind – at outrageous speed. Highway One is a war zone

    All I know, is that very few Trains kill people. Heaps of Trucks kill heaps of people.

    I hope with You that our lovely East Coast has Rail replaced – quick smart! Cleangreen.

    Best regards

    • cleangreen 9.1

      Observer Tokoroa;

      Thanks for the hands up here.

      We hope Helen & jacinda read my latest respose to Robert up on 8.1.1.1. right above here.

      Happy reading.

    • dukeofurl 9.2

      50 tonnes?

      Its more than that. HGV are now over 60 tones.

  8. Sabine 10

    oh my goodness, bring out the fainting couch 🙂

    someone who knew Aretha Franklin well and took offense at the works of the orange menace “She worked for me”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=117&v=5ggTnrPmBVI

    the quality is not the greatest so but still.

    Transcript:
    And then, this orange apparition had the nerve to say she worked for him. You lugubrious leach! You doppelgänger of deceit and deviance! You lethal liar! You dimwitted dictator! You foolish fascist! She ain’t work for you. She worked above you! She worked beyond you! Get your preposition right! Then he got the nerve to say he goin’ grab it.

    That ain’t what Aretha Franklin said. “I’m gonna give you something you can feel.” Like the brothers in the streets say, “Tap lightly. Like a woodpecker with a headache.” So don’t you sully the memory of our great Queen. Aretha Franklin was an original. Never one like her before. Never another like her afterwards.

  9. Jenny 11

    Russia claims rebels in Idlib, with the help of British contractors, are planning to gas their own people and blame it on Assad.

    https://www.dw.com/en/russia-claims-syrian-rebels-planning-idlib-chemical-weapons-attack/a-45223057

    Russia’s Defense Ministry said Saturday that Syrian rebels are planning a chemical weapons attack, with the aim of blaming it on the Syrian government to provoke a military response from the West……

    …..The ministry also claimed that a private British contractor is helping the rebels stage the attack, according to news agency AFP…..

    ……”The militants have the task of simulating the rescue of the victims of the chemical weapons attack dressed in the clothes of the famous ‘White Helmets’,” it said.

  10. Dennis Frank 12

    ” “I had two years of psychotherapy which were amazing but it was going to Peru and drinking ayahuasca, which is a class A drug in this country, that got to the root of my depression,” the comedian Simon Amstell has said. He is far from alone.”

    This is from a Guardian opinion essay: “Ayahuasca rituals can be profoundly beneficial – if they’re done properly”. Good to see younger folk pursuing a transcendence pathway.

    “In the west, ayahuasca can be portrayed as a shortcut to enlightenment, a product you can buy that will make you deep, or an “extreme” tourist experience. It’s become increasingly popular among tech millionaires who are, in the words of one report, looking to “find shortcuts to success in the ultra-competitive tech scene”. It seems unlikely ayahuasca was put on this Earth to help Bay Area tech bros crush the opposition.” But hey, you never know!

    Christians spent the past couple of millennia explaining that `God moves in mysterious ways’. However, now that he has mysteriously relocated elsewhere, better to face reality and acknowledge that ayahuasca is part of Gaia, and ingestion is part of Gaian process. Those fit to play an ongoing part survive, wiser from the experience. Any entrepreneur seeking competitive advantage will spot that trend fast & leap onto it.

    There was a decade or so in the hippie era when natural intelligence got powerfully enhanced via usage of plant allies – millions of us shared those experience before younger trend followers trashed the scenes with mindless hedonism. Western culture improved considerably as a result of the leading edge but the bad mental health produced by the capitalist system continues to victimise younger generations. Let’s hope their leading edge can also generate millions who wise up rather than turn into human vegetables!

    • Incognito 12.1

      Thanks for that and here’s the link for those who’d want to read the article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/31/ayahuasca-tourists-risk-death-henry-miller-colombia

      I’ve only just started reading the comments, some of which are very interesting; it’s definitely not just “younger folk pursuing a transcendence pathway”.

      Let’s hope their leading edge can also generate millions who wise up rather than turn into human vegetables!

      Bit too late for that; many are stuck in a catachthonic state/world through their ‘pursuit’ of instant gratification, greed & gain, and thirst for power & control.

      The most insightful poem In a Dark Time by Theodore Roethke shows that the path is not for the fainthearted. It happens to be my favourite poem 🙂

      • Dennis Frank 12.1.1

        Oh yeah, I forgot the link, thanks. Didn’t realise there were comments available. Usual selection of retards & sceptics, then this: “hallucinogens can be tremendously helpful, do nothing much, or be very harmful. depends what’s in your head, what drug, what surroundings and companions for the trip.” Sensible.

        “mushrooms: they grow on the golf courses near where my family live in Ireland and I’ve had some beautiful, gentle experiences with them.” Lucky! I’m just nostalgic, left tripping behind long ago. Catalysis & transcendence can be done without a plant ally. Incidentally, for readers who never read Castaneda, the ally is a tool – used as means to an end. The hippie thing turned to mush as soon as trend-followers started seeing it as an end in itself.

        “Unlike LSD and shrooms, Ayahuasca gives people a “this is the truth” experience. Seems to active whatever part of the brain that gives us the “ring of truth” feeling.” I never went to Central or South America so I can’t endorse this from experience.

        IrascibleOldGit89: “Being a true shallow suburbanite, I’m not sure how I’d react to taking powerful hallucinogens with Amazonian shamen, but I’m quite partial to imbibing modest amounts of novel lysergamides from time to time. Shame Theresa had one of her moral panics and banished the industry from the UK – it’s quite a global money spinner, I do believe…”

        Well yes, with capitalism on its last legs any new industry ought to be got up & running pronto. I hope he gets together with IrascibleOldGits1-88 & forms a tribe of them. Can the internet enable such networking?

        • marty mars 12.1.1.1

          “Usual selection of retards…”

          best if you don’t use that term thanks.

          Personally I find the information around mushrooms and mental health to be fascinating.

          “A number of small studies have found psychedelics to show promise in treating mental health disorders like depression, addiction and post-traumatic stress disorder, often where other treatments have failed.

          Now UK researchers are about to take part in the first major trials into whether one of these hallucinogenic drugs could be more effective than a leading antidepressant in the treatment of depression.

          Researchers at Imperial College London are to compare the magic mushroom compound psilocybin with a leading SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) antidepressant, escitalopram, in a large trial expected to take at least two years.”

          https://www.bbc.com/news/health-44575139

  11. Chris T 13

    Just on the news Chelsea Manning is still doing her Aussie gigs but via video.

    That’s like paying 200 bucks to watch one of her youtube videos.

    Personally would be saying “No. Money back please”

    • veutoviper 13.1

      Get your facts right.

      She is doing the Sydney one tomorrow (Sun) via satellite because the Aussie govt have not yet made a final decision on her visa application.

      The Sydney event is not her alone. She was/is appearing as part of a much bigger event – the Antidote Festival – at the Sydney Opera House involving many other speakers etc. Tickets for her session only were/are AUD39.

      Her other appearances in Aussie are not until next Friday, 7 Sept in Melbourne and Tues 11 Sept in Brisbane. So there is still time for a visa for those events to be issued. Tickets for those longer speaking engagements are AUD72 – AUD 249 for VIP Meet and Greet.

      Her NZ appearances are Auckland next Sat, 8 Sept and Wellington Sun, 9 Sept, and barring any last minute changes of mind etc, the decision yesterday to grant her a special direction all but means her NZ visa will be issued. NZ prices are $59 – $249 for the VIP Meet and Greet.

  12. joe90 14

    First, Idiocracy, and now Wag the Dog.

    Momentum gathering around some kind of US military action in Venezuela: Rubio, as well as some in DC bureaucracy openly discussing now. A friend with high-level DC contacts told me recently “I’m afraid they’re gonna do something crazy.” https://t.co/X7pnlzVA71— Brian Winter (@BrazilBrian) August 31, 2018

    Marco Rubio , a Republican senator from Florida, held a meeting at the White House with Donald Trump’s National Security Advisor, John Bolton , in which they spoke about the deep crisis that Venezuela is going through and its implications for the United States and Latin America. .

    “For months and years I wanted the solution in Venezuela to be a non-military and peaceful solution, simply to restore democracy, there is a National Assembly elected by the people that has been clouded by this dictatorship,”

    Rubio began when consulted for his meeting with Bolton.

    I think there is an argument, very strong, that can be made at this time that Venezuela and the regime of (Nicolás) Maduro has become a threat
    “I believe that the Armed Forces of the United States are only used in the event of a threat to national security, I believe that there is an argument, very strong , that can be made at this time that Venezuela and the (Nicolás) Maduro regime has become a threat to the region and even to the United States. ”

    He said that in his meeting with Bolton, this topic was discussed in general. ” (The Government of) Maduro is a government that supports drug traffickers, guerrillas and terrorist groups that are threatening the stability of Colombia .”

    https://translate.google.co.nz/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=https://www.infobae.com/america/venezuela/2018/08/30/marco-rubio-no-descarto-la-opcion-militar-de-eeuu-en-venezuela-las-circunstancias-han-cambiado/&prev=search

    • corodale 14.1

      Haha, they have broken away from the USD! Who’s next? Iran? Turkey!, hehehe. China, Russia, Japan; all selling US Fed bonds. Who’s buying? Can only be the US Fed, buying back their own bonds! The crash is coming, can’t wait.

      • joe90 14.1.1

        The crash is coming, can’t wait.

        Xtian POS relishes the impending impoverishing and suffering of perhaps hundreds of millions of ordinary folk.

    • adam 14.2

      All the oil in the ground and owned by the people of Venezuela, makes the US elites very mad.

  13. Ed 15

    Rachel Stewart.

    “If anyone truly believes we can keep the same number of cows, cut emissions, and increase profits they’re mad. As in insane. Our Ag minister is insane.”

    • dukeofurl 15.1

      Click bait.
      She gets it from reading the Guardian, where you have to be more absolutist than the Pope.

      The Kaiser didnt take too much notice of the Grey River Argus back in 1914 either.

  14. Ad 16

    Great to see California State is passing a very strong net neutrality law.

    This will set up a real fight with the FCC and a general federal-level fight. We’ll have to see whether Tom Wheeler the Obama appointee there is willing to really bend the ear of the majority there to revisit the issue.

    The proposed rules in California go further than rules passed by Democrats at the Federal Communications Commission in 2015. The legislation not only transforms the FCC’s 2015 net neutrality rules into California law, but it also bars internet service providers from offering sponsored content, zero-rating or other deals that could provide an economic incentive to broadband companies to discriminate against content riding on their networks. Such offerings allow a company to pay data charges so that certain content doesn’t count against a wireless subscriber’s data plan.

    Additionally, the bill allows the state to oversee commercial interconnection deals to ensure broadband companies can’t use their market power to charge hefty amounts from corporate customers. Interconnection deals are agreements between companies that provide internet content, such as Netflix, and ISPs, such as Comcast and Verizon.

    Large internet service providers, such as AT&T, Verizon and Comcast, oppose the California law. While they say they support the basic idea of net neutrality, they argue that bans on things like zero-rating and paid-priority, which could allow companies to pay broadband providers to get their services delivered faster than competitors, limit their ability to try new business models. The big broadband providers say without the ability to experiment with new business models, they’ll have to charge consumers more for their services in the future.

    What will be critical is whether the Democrat Party accept SuperPac money from Caifornia-domiciled big-tech companies who oppose any net neutrality. Generally the big internet companies support Democrats. If they accept the money, it signals that they are less likely to side with the California legislature and less likely to revisit the issue should they get a Senate majority from the November mid-terms.

    Big test for free speech in its biggest power.

    • dukeofurl 16.1

      “big-tech companies who oppose any net neutrality”

      Thats surprising , any evidence of that. I thought the people own own the net infrastructure were the only ones to make money out of net priority.
      Apple and Google dont want to pay to get their data their first and they would see their own profits at risk of going to those whos only job is infrastructure

      • Ad 16.1.1

        I made that distinction in the paragraph above.
        Happy to reinforce that with “big-tech network companies…”

        It will be a fight regardless since the FCC vote was along party-appointment-allegiance lines.

  15. marty mars 17

    Good to read some facts instead of the propaganda

    “Taking a swipe at UK Prime Minister Theresa May as she struggled to dance with schoolchildren during her visit to South Africa this week, controversial British columnist Katie Hopkins tweeted: “Whites are being slaughtered in South Africa & inexplicably Appeaser May chooses to crucify herself”.

    Hopkins’ tweet was the latest example of a global campaign to portray South Africa’s once dominant white population as a victimised minority under attack.

    Her comments reflect the growing influence of South Africa’s conservative Afrikaner groups who are conducting global lobbying campaigns to support their message that white farmers are being targeted and killed, that the government is seizing their land, they are being discriminated against by affirmative action programmes and that their language is being sidelined.

    …The BBC has found that there is no reliable data to suggest farmers are at greater risk of being murdered than the average South African.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-45336840

  16. Morrissey 18

    Profiles in Lack of Courage
    No. 1: Al Jazeera

    The outlaw Israeli regime told Al Jazeera not to show a documentary called The Lobby. Sadly for its credibility as a news organization, Al Jazeera obeyed.

  17. hone 19

    outlaw Israeli regime huh?
    there has never been a country called Palestine in the history of the world.
    they are Bedouin who are a grouping of nomadic Arab people who have historically inhabited the desert regions in North Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, Iraq and the Levant.
    nomadic people ok.

  18. corodale 20

    Here’s a Central Banking trick from the Arabs. NZ and Australia could do the same. Australian Treasury could be funded from RBNZ, while they return finance to NZ Treasury from their Central Bank. Extend the balance sheets with a little regional QE number. Nice-one, mate. So long as it’s spent on long-term economic transition, and not lost on the pokies.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/08/qatar-turkey-central-banks-ink-currency-swap-deal-180820072749514.html

    (NZ Govt 2018 have already added employment-level as a new consideration for setting RBNZ cash-rate, this fits with the above.)
    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/03/rbnz-mandate-changed-also-target-employment/

  19. greywarshark 21

    Trucking companies must be the biggest moaners in NZ. If only we could get more freight on the railways we already have.

    Ken Shirley – ex Labour?
    Ken Shirley, chief executive of trucking industry lobby group the Road Transport Forum…
    Mr Shirley said the government’s pledged commitment to road safety was a good sign, but the greatest road safety improvements would come from investing in new highways.
    “The biggest safety gains actually come from the big highway investment projects – the Roads Of National Significance – they have delivered spectacular improvement in safety and they’re the very projects that are now on hold.”

    (Has the safety improvement been so good on TRONS?)

    National:
    National associate transport spokesperson Brett Hudson said the government’s policies were “totally out of whack”….

    “The government claims to be focused on safety but if they truly were about that, then they’d be building more of those well-engineered roads, not just looking at some makeshift changes,” he said.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/365462/government-left-dangerous-road-off-priority-list

    • dukeofurl 21.1

      They didnt build the RONs for ‘the safety ‘- it was to suit the trucking industry.
      The ordinary SH improvements and critical safety improvements were plundered to feed the fund for RONs.
      Even the new route for the Manawatu Gorge back in 2012 was shelved in favour of some piece meal changes. All that money gone to waste as the new route has had to be done anyway – but slowly.
      Even the spending for Aucklands CRL was delayed starting after after approval to begin was given- the Council kicked it off with its own money- because RONS had taken all the money

      • cleangreen 21.1.1

        100% dukeofoul.

        Ken Shirley and his ilk is backed by the oil industry who constantly lobby’s government relentlessly every day till they wear politicians down.

        That is why things like RONs got to be paid by the taxpayer for the trucking industry.

        Simple as that and if Phil twyford is a smart politician he should place sunset clauses all over his plans to reverse the roading projects for rail uptake so that when national does take over again they wont reinstate RONs again to keep milking the taxpayerr for the beneit of the trucking industry as it is just a rort.

  20. Pat 22

    The end of us….oops, I mean ice.

  21. eco moari 23

    The hui there you go Eco Maori has not seen any maori living the golden years not many if any are enjoying the good life when we get the silver back I see heap’s of Pakeha living the golden years .
    The forestry industry industry on the East Coast’s was sold to maori as a big money spinner for maori but when I went to Ruatoria home the house’s look run down so not much money is flowing into the town .
    I know how they work they will keep all the cream contracting jobs for Pakeha and give maori all the un profitable jobs to maori.
    How does Eco Maori know this well that was one of the factors that caused my business to fail .
    The reality is that this phenomenon is happening to Maori in all industry’s that is why we are so young old and BROKE. Many thanks Mihinarangi .
    Ka kite ano

  22. eco moari 24

    Goon morning Marae Jenny May kai pai for Matua Brown for telling that Gisborne City Councillor off for using raciest remakes about maori .
    What he choses / Pakeha not to acknowledge is that I was all the Hard work of Maori tipunas /ancestors who have made Aotearoa so wealthy the East Coast was the back bone of Aotearoa in the Old day’s and thats a fact have a look at the farming and other industry’s. I no that the Pakeha can spinn there ——— back on maori .
    I say the we need more statues of our tipuna..
    Kia Kaha ka kite ano . Quade should play for Maori

  23. eco moari 25

    Good evening Newshub the Senator John McCain funeral service give’s Eco Maori hope that we are going to leave OUR mokopuna’s a good future ka pai.
    I say just for a ap and clients %35 cost that goes to Uber eats is to high .
    No to lease hold land deals that’s my opinion enough said .
    That’s the way Britain no honers ie Sir for un Honorable people .
    Yes I have seen Rainier forestry do that in mangatu forest Gisborne has been striped of a lot of trees that were not mature so much for thinking about the future for the mokopuna’s.
    Good story on Myanmar Michael Ka pai
    Nicky you got the Star and the good job
    Ka kite ano

  24. eco moari 26

    Eco Maori has been studying OUR history back 5000 years and every time man has suppresed wahine the eventual out come has been a desaster War so I’m on the correct path’s in promoting OUR Wahine they are the majority of my offspring Kia kaha ka kite ano here a link below. P.S & equality

  25. eco moari 27

    Well I stuffed that up lol

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