Open mike 01/09/2020

114 comments on “Open mike 01/09/2020 ”

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1. gsays 1

   1 September 2020 at 7:16 am

   I feel for the residents in and around Mataura, dealing with having a ticking pile of waste in their back yard.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424912/we-shouldn-t-have-to-live-like-this-mataura-resident-on-third-toxic-waste-scare

   I understand that a deal has been struck for the waste to be relocated back to Tiwai Point.

   Then what? Surely as part of Rio Tinto's conditions to operate includes appropriate actions to deal with waste. Not get a third party to 'store' it elsewhere.

   Can't wait for the Nats to get rid of the RMA../sarc.
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1

     1 September 2020 at 7:27 am

     And this…wtf ?!

     https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/no-risk-toxic-waste-fire-sparks-fear-among-mataura-residents

     Hissing Collinsss is keen to open "negotiations" with those rio tinto slime. By whatever power let the nats NEVER regain control.

     There was this small victory against the corporate creeps…

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/424299/rio-tinto-executives-stripped-of-bonuses-over-destruction-of-juukan-gorge-rock-shelters
   • Gabby 1.2

     1 September 2020 at 11:14 am

     The mayor has all the drive and energy of a limp fish.
2. Dennis Frank 2

   1 September 2020 at 7:17 am

   There's a worthwhile dispassionate commentary on Spinoff from a rightist who I've never agreed with before. He dissects the swirling currents of the public mood created by pandemic and election comprehensively, accurate enough for me to endorse.

   Force one was the nose-tapping savants who have divined in their Machiavellian brilliance that the move to alert level two in Auckland is “political”, that the government has decided it can’t afford to keep Auckland in level three lockdown a moment longer because it could cost them the election.

   When a rightist critiques a rightist critique, we get an effective reality check. There's enough cut-through of the mean-spirited sectarianism to strengthen common sense.

   armchair experts, conspiracy theorists and the less scrupulous of the government’s political opponents are happy to suggest that this decision is just about Jacinda Ardern making sure she wins the election. Well hang on a second, Maestro. What if she’s wrong, the virus gets away on us because of the level two decision and it’s rampant by October 17?

   Indeed. That's the risk the govt is taking. Civil disobedience by non-mask-wearers is a thing in Oz & the USA, fortunately not yet large-scale here and we must get heavy with those who defy convention to ensure it doesn't get traction.

   Jacinda-maniacs who will hear nothing said against their favourite angel

   The most that can reasonably be said against her is that she's too tolerant of public service insubordination and incompetence.

   the inexplicably alarmist instruction over the weekend telling everyone in south and west Auckland to get a Covid test. That was a botch-up. Someone will pay a price for it.

   How will we ever know that?? The privileged caste always evades public accountability. It's a relic of colonialism. It was established by the empire. Above the people forever, by design.

   And Jacinda telling everyone `the only information to believe is on the govt websites' while the media show everyone the crap right there on the govt website for all to see. Unbelievable! Talk about cognitive dissonance!

   But for the cynical armchair experts, it’s all just part of the plan to frighten and control, while the loyalists say anyone can make a mistake. Get over it, they say, especially journalists asking about it. It’s only 700,000 people being told to do something unnecessary and worrying that took an age to correct. So what?

   https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/31-08-2020/its-going-to-be-a-long-seven-weeks-to-the-election-in-grumpy-suspicious-nz/

   Freak out the masses in the middle of a pandemic, no problem. Bureaucrats doing their usual thing. Move on, nothing to see here…
   • Adrian 2.1

     1 September 2020 at 10:10 am

     What a lot of the critics of what are essentialy minor mistakes and mis-steps have forgotten or never really wanted to believe is that the Covid fight is a war, and in war you can only react to what the enemy has surprised you with.

     There is an old saying that the problem with an army is that it only prepares to fight the last war, that was obvious in Vietnam and even Afghanistan and particularly WW2, who for instance in 1939 could have expected V2 rockets. It is known as Aysemmetrical War, different to that which has gone before and bloody difficult to counter.

     This virus is exactly the same, it is markedly different to Sars Covid-2 as it hides its infectiousness for several days to give it an element of surprise so of course there will be scrambling to counter all sorts of subtelties thrown at those we hope and trust can counter the threat, so stop bagging them at ever turn, from Jacinda and Ashley and some of the worlds best virologists, immunologists, epidemiologists and whatever we are immensely lucky to have on our side.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.2

     1 September 2020 at 5:29 pm

     Common sense isn't.
     • Dennis Frank 2.2.1

       1 September 2020 at 5:36 pm

       Oh, indeed. 🤫 I use it as a colloquialism. Very handy. Stuff being real is relative to how closely one looks. Near enough is good enough for most folk in the room…
3. Adrian Thornton 3

   1 September 2020 at 8:47 am

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vvdtaaprzw

   A Message to Young People from Andrei Tarkovsky
4. swordfish 4

   1 September 2020 at 8:59 am

   https://twitter.com/swordfish7774/status/1300538075093716993
   • dv 4.1

     1 September 2020 at 9:13 am

     Interesting the consistency across the age groups.

     [fixed the name in this one and deleted the other comment, as this one stays as a reply to – weka]
   • observer 4.2

     1 September 2020 at 3:28 pm

     6% is a remarkably low number for the anti-lockdown opinion.

     But it's a familiar story … all (yes, all) the serious surveys since we went to level 4 in March have registered overwhelming support for the government's approach. (This includes polls by Reid Research, Colmar Brunton, Horizon, Spin-Off/Sticky Beak, etc).

     The vast gulf between commentators and actual public opinion has been an unchanging feature of NZ's response to Covid.
     • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1

       1 September 2020 at 5:22 pm

       The vast gulf between commentators and actual public opinion has been an unchanging feature of NZ's response to Covid.

       That's because the commentators are trying to change public opinion and not just report it.
5. tc 5

   1 September 2020 at 9:11 am

   Swordfish@4..wait for the 'rogue poll' narrative along with DPF's dodgy data distractions
6. Dennis Frank 6

   1 September 2020 at 9:33 am

   Who knew this?

   In November 2018 the British High Commission employed its first Maori adviser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Clarke

   the United Kingdom promised to ensure the “moral authority” of indigenous people is heard.

   British High Commissioner Laura Clarke is married to a kiwi human rights barrister (https://www.gov.uk/government/people/laura-clarke).

   She told Stuff about novel elements of her govt's foreign policy:

   We’re very focused on engaging with Māori business and understanding where we can find benefits in terms of the free trade agreement for both the UK and New Zealand, particularly thinking about the Māori economy and Māori small and medium-size enterprises.”

   “We want to work with Māori on our climate change agenda, drawing on that indigenous knowledge and perspective,” Clarke said. “The UK, with its COP presidency as a whole, is wanting to put indigenous perspectives at the heart of its work.

   “We’re saying, ‘We’ve got this shared planet, we have these shared taonga, we need to work together going forward, and where there are difficulties we need to be honest about it and work on them’.”

   She's been making a Green connection here too:

   Greenvale Pastures in Methven, which produces high-quality specialist seeds and cereals using environmentally sustainable farming practices. “They’re doing really innovative work in terms of agritech and making sure that as you do your farming you’re not using any more water or putting any more inputs into the soil than you should, and a whole load of things you can do in terms of using technology and best practice."

   "There’s a lot of that sort of thinking going on in the UK as well, and so if the UK and New Zealand can come together to collaborate more and share that best practice more widely across the world, collectively that’s going to reduce overall emissions quite a lot.”
7. Ad 7

   1 September 2020 at 9:58 am

   Trump promising to visit the high protest areas shows his team need to read the likely response better.

   Last time Trump stepped in to the protest arena – the one with the Bible in front of the church – Biden got a good bump.

   However Law and Order is a supremely strong sat of cards for Trump to play. Fear, played well, trumps hope most times.

   If BLM and the crowds really go nuts on tv with fires and overturned cars, Trump could well win Florida and Pennsylvania back.
   • Andre 7.1

     1 September 2020 at 10:03 am

     Law and Order would be a supremely powerful set of cards for Drongo Unbrained to play if he were the challenger. Like Nixon in '68.

     But since all this American carnage has built up on his watch, it's a more difficult trick to to play.
   • AB 7.2

     1 September 2020 at 11:41 am

     What's Biden doing about it? He gave a pretty good speech saying Trump (as president) can't escape responsibility for what is happening. A start – but he needs to announce something specific and credible on policing reform – a serious promise to deliver reform combined with a call to people to get off the streets before it all escalates out of control.

     This is from his Criminal Justice policy – and it falls way short of what is needed in terms of specifics:

     "Our criminal justice system cannot be just unless we root out the racial, gender, and income-based disparities in the system. Black mothers and fathers should feel confident that their children are safe walking the streets of America. And, when a police officer pins on that shield and walks out the door, the officer’s family should know they’ll come home at the end of the day."

     Is he relying on flowery Obama-style rhetoric or sentimental homilies to carry the day? Such rhetoric peters out into nothing under pressure from special interests. Look's like he's playing safe and remaining what he considers to be 'electable' – but there are times when the apparently safe option is the most dangerous thing you can do.
8. RedLogix 8

   1 September 2020 at 10:37 am

   Why the world is always more complex than you can think:

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovJcsL7vyrk&
   • Dennis Frank 8.1

     1 September 2020 at 10:51 am

     Gimme more of a clue, huh? 18 minutes of my day is a big chunk, so I'm only like to watch a mathematician if he proves capable of telling me something I don't already know. I paused at 1min 40, when he had introduced an algorithm explaining how negative feedback cycles stabilise populations in ecosystems.

     Well, I'm already giving him too much credit. He did not in fact deduce & declare the general principle – merely used rabbits as an example of his equation. Metaphysics is just so damn hard when you're a typical product of the antique education system!
     • RedLogix 8.1.1

       1 September 2020 at 10:55 am

       Patience grasshopper.
       • Dennis Frank 8.1.1.1

         1 September 2020 at 11:47 am

         Well I tried that, got to 11 mins & he was still telling us what we learnt in the late '80s so I baled out. Cool for those who missed chaos theory tho…
         • RedLogix 8.1.1.1.1

           1 September 2020 at 12:59 pm

           And so you missed the interesting bit.
           • Dennis Frank 8.1.1.1.1.1

             1 September 2020 at 1:17 pm

             Bugger. And you don't want to give me a clue. 😥
             • roblogic …

               1 September 2020 at 4:32 pm

               http://www.ams.org/notices/200009/fea-lyubich.pdf

               

               Mathematics is everywhere..
               • Dennis Frank …

                 1 September 2020 at 5:21 pm

                 Mathematics is everywhere

                 Yeah, I know, I had to pass stage 3 maths at university to graduate in physics long ago! But it didn't take you 18 mins to write that…
                 • Descendant Of Smith …

                   1 September 2020 at 5:50 pm

                   This series is quite interesting. Episode 4 Digits gives another maths example. Currently showing on Netflix.

                   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connected_(2020_TV_series)#:~:text=Zero%20Point%20Zero%20Production%20Inc.&text=Connected%3A%20The%20Hidden%20Science%20of%20Everything%20is%20a%202020%20docuseries,each%20other%20and%20the%20universe.
9. Jum 9

   1 September 2020 at 11:47 am

   Cyber attacks ' Asghar believes the Government needs to step in and help fight the cyber attacks. Media companies Stuff and RNZ have also been hit by attempted hacks.'

   Have all media companies been hit?
10. Red 10

    1 September 2020 at 11:50 am

    This funding of the Green School in Taranaki gets even more bizarre Not only crystals and 5th dimension consciousness but the owners name is Christof ( or Christ of) thinks he is a King and a Priest. His last name Melchizedek is a role in Abrahamic religions, modelled on Melchizedek, combining the dual position of king and priest.[1]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priesthood_of_Melchizedek
    • joe90 10.1

      1 September 2020 at 12:00 pm

      Dude's a barking con artist.

      https://www.christof.love/about/
      • Andre 10.1.1

        1 September 2020 at 12:16 pm

        Oh wow. Their Lemurian heritage is what enables them to bring us these blessings.

        https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gRfdq0chx4QJ:https://www.christof.love/nz2020/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=nz&client=firefox-b-d

        Einstein was wrong. Along with human stupidity, the cray-cray is also infinite.
        • joe90 10.1.1.1

          1 September 2020 at 12:23 pm

          I'm torn between the heart and lung clearing protocols and the corona sound frequency zapper.

          https://www.youtube.com/c/ChristofMelchizedek/videos
          • Andre 10.1.1.1.1

            1 September 2020 at 12:29 pm

            

            Reckon that might be where One Two disappeared to?
          • Andre 10.1.1.1.2

            1 September 2020 at 1:12 pm

            Oh Jeebus. I shouldn't have clicked those links. Now all my google ads are for weirdy-beardies shilling shit like "Inner Engineering".
      • Dennis Frank 10.1.2

        1 September 2020 at 12:39 pm

        No, seems sincere. Just a typical new-ager. I've got several in my circle of old friends. One eventually develops self-discipline around tolerance of loopiness.

        Nice wormhole photo here but doesn't say which starship it was taken from: https://www.christof.love/processing-through-the-portal/

        Further down the page you get to the connection between the Goddess & World Cup cricket, which Mark Richardson would find inspiring. Perhaps. I was mildly irritated that he didn't specify which goddess but we can't expect precision from folks who talk (and think) in words starting with capital letters…
        • Andre 10.1.2.1

          1 September 2020 at 12:49 pm

          I'm in pain. I think I ruptured something from laughing so hard. That has to be one of the generator's better outputs.
          • Dennis Frank 10.1.2.1.1

            1 September 2020 at 1:12 pm

            Yeah but don't forget this stuff has real deep cultural roots. Not just the christians. Snake oil salesmen were the 19th century exponents, right? PT Barnum (`there's one born every minute'). Illuminati (18th century).

            It's even something the political left & right share. Peale's Power of Positive Thinking, Napoleon Hill's Think & Grow Rich exemplify the capitalist strands. The communist strands constitute a spider's web emanating from the 19th.

            In science you have cold fusion etc. The human psyche consists of a real/imaginal interface. Imagining alternate realities is hard-wired.
            • Andre 10.1.2.1.1.1

              1 September 2020 at 1:19 pm

              In science you prove it with actual repeatable demonstrations of hard evidence. So Fleischmann and Pons very rapidly got deservedly ridiculed when their claims could not be substantiated.

              (Muon-catalysed cold-fusion is an actual real thing, but so far utterly useless for any real or imagined application)

              The persistence of this kind of snake-oil is as least partly due to apologists who should fkn know better validating the evidence-free bullshit as somehow legitimate.
              • Dennis Frank …

                1 September 2020 at 1:28 pm

                Yeah, I share your bias. I differ inasmuch as having a `feet on the ground & head in the clouds' kind of outlook. So I concede that flakiness does work for some. Who are we too condemn choices others make on a spiritual basis? And if they make commercial choices consequent?

                Karmic consequences are a personal learning curve. We can't really say that the delusional new-agers are wrong, because social reality is co-created. But we can erect boundaries around them to protect our peace of mind.
              • Stuart Munro …

                1 September 2020 at 2:49 pm

                As an aside – I saw a genuine snake oil salesman at a market in Gupo, near Seoul. There was no deception, though there were a couple of pythons on show. The oil was in small bottles, each with a small snake, no more than 15cm long in it. It was genuine snake oil, and local belief was apparently that it had some benefit for sufferers of joint pain.

                The expression may have arisen more from the US medicine shows, that variously sold alcohol or low end religion or some mixture of the two, than the relatively humble bottled snake.
    • Andre 10.2

      1 September 2020 at 12:06 pm

      Got any linky about the Melchizedeks having any ownership stake in the Green School?

      Everything I've seen describes them as school parents. While they certainly appear to own the entity that's peddling crystal woo-nonsense and even kookier conspiracy stuff, that doesn't appear have a formal Green School ownership connection.

      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/couple-who-called-covid-19-manufactured-natural-disaster-held-dna-activation-event-at-green-school.html
    • Gabby 10.3

      1 September 2020 at 3:46 pm

      Maybe he hypnotised James Shaw, or cast a spell or sutin.
11. joe90 11

    1 September 2020 at 11:52 am

    'Murica
    https://twitter.com/KagroX/status/1299779623765585920
12. Ad 12

    1 September 2020 at 11:53 am

    Shaw going live on funding scandal now.
    • Bearded Git 12.1

      1 September 2020 at 12:11 pm

      "Funding scandal" or more realistically small "funding mistake" that has been hysterically blown up by the media in order to discredit the Greens even though it is an all-government initiative.

      Even Hipkins, when questioned on the issue on Morning Report today, didn’t mention the Greens.
    • Shanreagh 12.2

      1 September 2020 at 12:19 pm

      I wish he hadn't. Should have refused as no matter how clearly it is explained the media will use it to beat him/Green Party up. The ignorance about how governments work is not helped by juicy soundbites.

      And since when has a normal decision made by a Govt committee been a ‘scandal’. Either it fitted the criteria or it did not…..end of story. All this weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and responding to Nats is not going to clarify anything.
      • Robert Guyton 12.2.1

        1 September 2020 at 12:27 pm

        
      • Ad 12.2.2

        1 September 2020 at 12:43 pm

        Good to see Davidson recognise that the issue was so serious for them that it could affect them making 5%. They get how bad it is.
        • Shanreagh 12.2.2.1

          1 September 2020 at 1:06 pm

          The 'bad' is totally manufactured by the media. A mistake by no means necessitates this over the top over-reaction. It shows up an ignorance about how Govt works, and also about how people make mistakes. There is no story and I wish they had just stood staunch. The application apparently met the criteria and what we are seeing is a woe is me about the concept of the school and who announced the decision.

          No-one answered my earlier query about if there would have been a problem if the approval had been announced by Labour, NZ First so I will answer it myself

          Of course there would not have been. But all hell breaks loose when the Govt's decision is announced by a Minister who is also a Green Party MP.

          If it had been shown that the approval had been given even though the application did not meet the Govt's criteria for accessing the fund then we would have a legitimate reason for concern. No, a minor mistake or something not related to the application itself was made by one of those approving that does not go to the heart of the application and its merits.

          In terms of decision making it is a grounds for an administrative review had material not relevant to the making of the decision been made part of the decision making process. If Shaw had concerns he should have disqualified himself, but I am not sure how that looks either legally. The point is that this is a Govt decision NOT a party decision.

          By continuing this we are all falling into where the Nats want us.

          There is no story.
          • Robert Guyton 12.2.2.1.1

            1 September 2020 at 1:13 pm

            You are entirely correct, Shanreagh. This is hair-pulling-out time for some of us. Still, this it to be expected in this period of the electoral cycle. Cringeworthy though. We have met the enemy and he is us.
          • Dennis Frank 12.2.2.1.2

            1 September 2020 at 1:15 pm

            a Govt decision

            Yeah that's the guts. But James must cater to that body of opinion within the Greens that does knee-jerk moral outrage with brain disengaged. Their numbers are sufficiently large to be catered to.
          • Pat 12.2.2.1.3

            1 September 2020 at 1:17 pm

            "The point is that this is a Govt decision NOT a party decision."

            Indeed it was though for whatever reason Shaw has taken it upon himself to personally wear it….curiouser and curiouser.
            • Incognito 12.2.2.1.3.1

              1 September 2020 at 1:35 pm

              It is out of his hands now yet it was never fully and solely in his hands to start with. His mistake was to claim credit for it and therefore ownership and responsibility for its justification. Shane Jones would not have encountered the same problem had he announced it instead.
              • Pat …

                1 September 2020 at 1:50 pm

                It would be interesting to know whose idea it was for Shaw to announce it.

                Trouble for the Greens and Shane Jones in the same sentence
                • Incognito …

                  1 September 2020 at 1:54 pm

                  It is the difference between a minor scratch and the airbags inflating.
            • greywarshark 12.2.2.1.3.2

              1 September 2020 at 1:55 pm

              Shaw is sacrificing his own persona and taking on his shoulders all the hoop-lah from the loud and scatty of whom there appear to be many in Greens. Perhaps they have been in space-type suspended animation for the last few decades and have just woken up. The shock, the fluster of how things appear to these Rip van Winkles, horrific!

              Now we have a fluster-cluster muster just when we should be tramping along like the old tortoise that is guaranteed to get over the finishing line in the fable The Hare and the Tortoise. How did Aesop know all this stuff, he an Nostradamus really had muchly foresight, I hope it doesn't end up a foresigh.

              (Nostradamus from Wikpedia – had experience of plague effects and dealing with people in authority who had closed minds. Nothing changes does it dear Nostra!)

              Nostradamus's family was originally Jewish, but had converted to Catholic Christianity before he was born. He studied at the University of Avignon, but was forced to leave after just over a year when the university closed due to an outbreak of the plague. He worked as an apothecary for several years before entering the University of Montpellier, hoping to earn a doctorate, but was almost immediately expelled after his work as an apothecary (a manual trade forbidden by university statutes) was discovered.
          • Robert Guyton 12.2.2.1.4

            1 September 2020 at 1:25 pm

            But we shouldn't be surprised at this turn of events; it happens every time. If it's not a Green School, it's Morris dancing, or Metiria's past, or the Exclusive Brethren flyers, or.. whatever the Right wing can devise, whip up, fabricate or beat up. It's pretty much impossible to counter; those who seek to destroy the chances of a Green presence in Government are skilled at the dark art of dirty politics, but it galls when "our own people" add fuel to the Right's indignant fires.
            • Pat 12.2.2.1.4.1

              1 September 2020 at 1:52 pm

              The source of your gall may have be about to have company

              http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2020/09/what-just-didnt-happen.html
              • Andre …

                1 September 2020 at 2:00 pm

                Well, that was such a pile of steaming unfossilised coprolite that I'm embarrassed to have even clicked the link. FFS, starting out by fantasising two bizarre scenarios and pretending that out of the entire universe of things that might have led to the situation, those are the only two to be considered.
                • greywarshark …

                  1 September 2020 at 2:11 pm

                  Andre & Pat Are you the only ones who can try to examine the entrails of politics? You certainly come up with some questionable ideas yourselves. And that is good – we need to be questioning stuff, but not just what you decide we should.
                  • Pat …

                    1 September 2020 at 3:08 pm

                    Wouldnt dream of speaking for Andre but for myself Im not sure how you can arrive at that conclusion from a link and the accompanying comment
                • Pat …

                  1 September 2020 at 2:15 pm

                  I recall a similar sentiment being expressed around funding streams recently.
                  • greywarshark …

                    1 September 2020 at 2:27 pm

                    What golden trickling down on you?
                    • Pat …

                      1 September 2020 at 2:57 pm

                      lol….mustve missed that
                • Dennis Frank …

                  1 September 2020 at 2:29 pm

                  Thus from the éminence grise:

                  Occam’s Razor allows of only two reasonable explanations.

                  1) That the action was deliberate and its consequences foreseen.

                  2) That the calibre of the staff responsible for its release was so abysmal that the notice’s glaring deficiencies passed unnoticed.

                  Neither explanation offers us much comfort. The first admits to sabotage. The second to utter incompetence.

                  The question to be decided, therefore, is whether we are looking at a conspiracy or a cock-up?

                  As usual, I will apply both/and logic. Public servants who vote National have been awarded management roles, plus public servants who vote Labour have been likewise awarded management roles, and they have collaborated (conspired) to orchestrate a cock-up. Everybody happy?
                  • Pat …

                    1 September 2020 at 2:59 pm

                    so a combination of the two….plausible but the result is potentially the same…the upsetting of a delicate balancing act.
                  • Andre …

                    1 September 2020 at 3:45 pm

                    Interesting. There's probably a name for whatever it is that might result from an attempted synthesis starting from a false dichotomy, but I've no idea what it is.
                    • Pat …

                      1 September 2020 at 6:07 pm

                      Whether its a false dichotomy or not may (or may not) be established, maybe, sometime….they think.

                      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/covid-19/424882/covid-19-review-ordered-into-testing-order-blunder

                      the explanation would appear to be something difficult to ascertain
                  • McFlock …

                    1 September 2020 at 4:20 pm

                    He's not eminent, but he is greasy, and he sure as shit isn't a power behind a throne.

                    Trotter has a unique ability to smmon up a thousand-odd words of enbloviated indignation merely by inserting the word "glaring" into the phrase "the notice’s deficiencies".
            • Bearded Git 12.2.2.1.4.2

              1 September 2020 at 3:41 pm

              Spot on Robert….or the dope smoking dreadlocked deadbeat benefit scroungers
            • gsays 12.2.2.1.4.3

              1 September 2020 at 6:02 pm

              I do agree with the jist of your reponses to this bruhaha, I've gotta draw the line at this being a right wing beat-up.

              James Shaw stood on a landmine that did trigger a lot of upset. Sure some of those do get upset out of proportion, but he has owned it and gone up a little in my eyes.

              As for the right making hay out of this, they are so desperate for a break they would pay big money for any straws you may have.
              • Robert Guyton …

                1 September 2020 at 6:14 pm

                Oh, this one wasn't a Right-wing set up, but they're certainly beating it up as far as it can be beaten. Sadly, they were aided in their work by a lot of Lefties who might have held their breath until James had fully explained where it was he went wrong. Perhaps next time, there'll be some pause taken.
                • weka …

                  1 September 2020 at 7:26 pm

                  yep. I wonder if people feel so powerless now that they don't consider their words have an effect. Or that the collective and compounding nature of left wing response actually matters.

                  The Greens are vulnerable because they will tell the truth and they will do right by process. The left's ability to eat its young never ceases to amaze me.
                  • Robert Guyton …

                    1 September 2020 at 7:39 pm

                    I've been debating with conspiracy types lately, weka – followers of Billy Te Kahika and Jamie-Lee Ross, trying to open up some channels through which fresh air and light might flow, but have made precious little progress, despite my love for story, words, language and imagination. At one point, I asked an assembled group, "How do you form your ideas? From whom do you get your information? Who are your trusted-advisors? I hoped to use the analogy of a waka ama, a canoe with outriggers to try to create a model that showed how important it is to have relationships with trusted friends and mentors, face to face and distant, present and past, to test ones ideas against, to check-in and see if their view is close to yours. I wanted also to suggest that those people need not be commenting on the issue of the day, but in general terms, if they showed they had their heads screwed on right over a period of time, they were likely to be trustworthy and could provide guidance when times got tricky, as these times are, when media reports, memes, gossip, cartoons, video-clips etc. swamp the mind of the inquisitive person and create confusion. However, all I got from them was, on-line sources and "my gut, my heart" which surprised me a little. Perhaps this is a common phenomenon and explains the situations we find ourselves in now. I'm not really exploring the depths of the idea but I hope you get my drift
                    • weka …

                      1 September 2020 at 7:57 pm

                      This is a very good description, better than my go to which is to talk about critical thinking (which everyone thinks they have).

                      I'm avoiding my friends who are BTK followers, because I don't trust myself not to say things that will make it worse. This whole phenomena is one of the top things that worries me about NZ now.

                      I think we are so far down the rabbit hole of fear, distrust, and stress from CC, Australian bushfires, the Trump presidency, Dirty Politics and so on, that the good man that Shaw is will be missed or maybe people just won't care in their bloodlust for vengeance. It actually breaks my heart to see lefties still doing this, still believing that anger and blame will be enough to see us through.

                      Otoh, I am heartend by the poll, 11.5 is truly excellent and I am pleased for the Greens it came out today.
                    • Stuart Munro …

                      1 September 2020 at 8:00 pm

                      I've been wrassling a few of these online – their sources are almost always ranter websites. Soros + sheeple + wake up + pedos + NWO + Killary is a pretty common equation – like they formed out of the tail of the product that was used against Hillary Clinton.

                      I'd like to see some of that material taken down – it has no basis in fact and seems to be designed to radicalize folk unfamiliar with ideas about weight of sources.
13. Red 13

    1 September 2020 at 12:17 pm

    Andre ( 10.2) I stand corrected, assumed was an owner from the press , i have no evidence of such, thus a friend / supporter of the school is probably more appropriate
    • Andre 13.1

      1 September 2020 at 12:25 pm

      Cheers. I'm relieved. If there actually was any ownership link, that would have been a vastly greater failure of due diligence.
    • Muttonbird 13.2

      1 September 2020 at 12:32 pm

      The press I read was quite clear. Perhaps you didn't read it properly?
14. Muttonbird 14

    1 September 2020 at 12:28 pm

    A pathetic reparation sum for such vile behaviour from a landlord. He is the one who should now be in prison.

    First he tried an illegal 12.5% rent increase, then he tried an illegal eviction, then he went into their home, took the front door and destroyed their property.

    No charges, just a fine, where are the police?

    Some landlords are pure evil, and the tenancy tribunal is soft on those evil landlords.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/122623348/landlord-ordered-to-pay-tenants-6500-after-prison-threats-removing-front-door
    • Shanreagh 14.1

      1 September 2020 at 1:10 pm

      What puzzles me about the whole shenanigans is that for 2 years the tenants were OK. Then over the time of Covid a rush of blood to the head and the landlord behaves in this despicable and frightening way.
15. Red 15

    1 September 2020 at 1:37 pm

    Muttonbird 10.2 Perhaps you are right, irrespective sounds like that school is a real whack job

    [Fixed typo in e-mail address]
    • Muttonbird 15.1

      1 September 2020 at 3:13 pm

      I didn't say the school is a real whack job. The Melchicks seem a bit odd but the school and its curriculum is probably reasonably sound for those wealthy enough to attend. The test will be if/when they get full approval.

      There'll be plenty of crystal enthusiast parents at most schools in rural New Zealand and Titirangi, don't worry about that.
      • Dennis Frank 15.1.1

        1 September 2020 at 4:15 pm

        Stuff reported the school when it opened last summer, so the kids attending have had half a year or more. I had some interrupt my conversation with their CEO the other day when I went to have a look.

        You could always look at the new-age time slots as entertainment, eh? I trust the teachers & kids both to provide reality checks so no real prospect of brainwashing.
16. RedBaronCV 16

    1 September 2020 at 1:49 pm

    Are the airlines required to conduct basic screening for covid in passengers before flying them? We seem to have an uptick of cases caught at the border and the fewer of those we have the better surely.
    • Sacha 16.1

      1 September 2020 at 2:33 pm

      The only way to be sure someone does not have Covid is to quarantine them for 14 days. If they then stay in full surgical grade PPE all the way to the airport and on the flight and to the arrivals gate, then they will be safe. Anything else is false reassurance and theatre.
      • RedBaronCV 16.1.1

        1 September 2020 at 10:01 pm

        I was more wondering if some vaguely symptomatic people where getting on planes (temperature up, coughing etc) and not being rejected given how quickly they are diagnosed here.
        • Sacha 16.1.1.1

          1 September 2020 at 11:06 pm

          Airlines have rejected symptomatic people all along.
17. greywarshark 17

    1 September 2020 at 2:27 pm

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/08/29/treasury-officials-push-bombshell-tax-hikes-pay-virus/Treasury officials push for bombshell tax hikes to pay for virus

    Aug.29/20

    Historic tax grab will see Treasury push for a raid on capital gains, pensions, internet sales, fuel and inheritance

    Treasury officials are pushing for the largest tax rises in a generation to plug the gaping holes in the public finances, in a move being resisted by Downing Street, The Telegraph can disclose….
    • Barfly 17.1

      1 September 2020 at 2:59 pm

      "error 404 page not found"
      • greywarshark 17.1.1

        1 September 2020 at 5:55 pm

        Thanks Barfly. I'll try again – but note there is a paywall and I put it as my source. Go to google with heading is the idea and get a vid link I think.

        https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/08/29/treasury-officials-push-bombshell-tax-hikes-pay-virus/
        • greywarshark 17.1.1.1

          1 September 2020 at 6:25 pm

          Further uk –

          Coronavirus: Positive tests in Scotland rise by 123 in 24 hours
          (Not good but overall not bad — percentage of positives under 1% with 'record' testing)
          https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-53965868

          Wales – Quarter of Covid cases in England and Wales have dementia.
          UK records 1715 cases in worst weekend since mid-May
          https://www.theguardian.com/uk/wales

          Wales has one of the lowest mortality rates for coronavirus during the pandemic so far, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
          The 75.7 deaths per 100,000 people up until the end of July is lower than England and all its regions, apart from the south west and south east. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-53946092

          But Wales recently had a cut-price airline flight from Zante Ionian Islands with TUI Airline with 193 passengers plus crew told to self-isolate and has resulted in 16 positive cases. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-cases-flight-zante-cardiff-18856588
18. Incognito 18

    1 September 2020 at 2:59 pm

    Voters want certainty, clarity, and honesty, which they won’t get from National’s flip-flopping yo-yoing weathercock’s pin-head dancing on policies.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300096912/coronavirus-national-still-keen-to-let-international-students-selfisolate-in-dorms-when-it-is-safe
19. observer 19

    1 September 2020 at 3:14 pm

    New Roy Morgan poll:

    Scroll down for the confidence rating – the real story.

    As with all other polling that measures approval, there is no indication of any mood for change. Party vote numbers can vary within the "blocs", but the underlying trend has been consistent for many months.
    • Bearded Git 19.1

      1 September 2020 at 3:48 pm

      Looks rather good for a Labour/Green coalition.
      • Dennis Frank 19.1.1

        1 September 2020 at 4:20 pm

        Greens support increased 3.5% to 11.5% in August and is now up 5.2% since the 2017 election and the party is on track to repeat the result of the 2011 NZ Election when it won 14 seats.

        Whoopee! Thud! The yoyo effect from wealth tax & Green school funding. So let's wait for the next poll!
    • ianmac 19.2

      1 September 2020 at 4:21 pm

      On the current rating Lab-Green could govern. Wonder what happens if Lab-Green dropped to say 48%?
20. Muttonbird 20

    1 September 2020 at 3:15 pm

    Zero MIQ workers have tested positive. Back to the drawing board, National.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424948/no-quarantine-or-managed-isolation-staff-have-tested-positive-woods
21. Muttonbird 21

    1 September 2020 at 3:22 pm

    "Useless" Sam Morgan can't peddle his Covid-Card. I thought he was supposed to be a genius business man?

    Perhaps all he has done in his life is use dad's money to copy E-Bay.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122626522/sam-morgan-gives-up-on-covidcard-in-frustration-with-ministry-of-health
    • Bearded Git 21.1

      1 September 2020 at 3:54 pm

      …and stuff-up an excellent Environment Court decision in Wanaka, that represented sustainable management of the landscape, so that he could make more money.
    • RedBaronCV 21.2

      1 September 2020 at 10:16 pm

      The current app as one of the IT peeps put it "is a rich person's solution". At least the covid card was an attempt to be an all persons gig.
22. ScottGN 22

    1 September 2020 at 3:53 pm

    Collins has apologised for the National party’s misleading Facebook ad about Hipkins’s parliamentary answers to questions from Shane Reti. Hipkins had sought to have the matter referred to the Privilege’s Committee. Collins is named as authorising the ad but claims to have not done so.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/09/judith-collins-apologises-over-national-party-ad-chris-hipkins-complained-was-misleading.html
    • Dennis Frank 22.1

      1 September 2020 at 4:23 pm

      Cool! We're in the middle of Politicians Apology Week. How contagious will it get? 😍
      • greywarshark 22.1.1

        1 September 2020 at 5:32 pm

        PAW Week. Who's the catspaw here?
        • Draco T Bastard 22.1.1.1

          1 September 2020 at 5:35 pm

          Who's the mouse?
    • Muttonbird 22.2

      1 September 2020 at 4:41 pm

      It's great for New Zealand that Labour is standing up for itself and calling out National's continued Dirty Politics.

      This was a social media ad clearly forged and fabricated, and authorised by Mrs Wong-Tung.

      Good on Hipkins.
    • lprent 22.3

      1 September 2020 at 4:54 pm

      Collins is named as authorising the ad but claims to have not done so.

      Looks like she has someone else that she needs to control a bit more.

      Does she have any control on those around her?
      • Draco T Bastard 22.3.1

        1 September 2020 at 5:10 pm

        Considering National's focus on the individual and that everyone should be able to do what they like I suspect that being their leader is an exercise* in herding cats.

        * I did consider the option of using lesson instead but figured she wouldn't learn anything from it
    • Robert Guyton 22.4

      1 September 2020 at 5:29 pm

      “but you should see what Judith Collins’ husband has been posting.”

      Sneaky and dishonest, National Party. Got away with it because Parliament is set to be dissolved on Sunday.

      “"The post involved the manufacture of a fake ministerial letterhead to lend authenticity to the misrepresentation."“

      “Mallard said Collins has apologised and he has no plans to take any further action because Parliament is set to be dissolved on Sunday ahead of the election. “
    • gsays 22.5

      1 September 2020 at 5:35 pm

      Jingoes!

      In case any more evidence was needed how unfit to govern they are.
    • Gabby 22.6

      1 September 2020 at 11:18 pm

      Perhaps her hubby authorised it and she couldn't stop him because he's 64.
23. ianmac 23

    1 September 2020 at 5:29 pm

    EQC was ill-equipped for the Earthquakes. Over 9 years it was not fixed by the then Government.

    NZ was ill-equipped to handle a pandemic. Over a few months this Government has created a massive response and created lifesaving processes.

    So which Parties would be good to handle future crisis?
    • gsays 23.1

      1 September 2020 at 5:52 pm

      "So which Parties would be good to handle future crisis?"

      Well not one Gerry Brownlee is involved in. According to him you need a standing army to deal with it…

      "You don't have a standing army waiting around for a natural disaster, and that's what would have had to have happened…"

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/424881/government-plans-to-transform-earthquake-commission-in-wake-of-inquiry

      But more importantly, as you point out- "Over a few months this Government has created a massive response and created lifesaving processes." World class and will, in time, be reflected on and used as a blueprint for future responses. Yet if you scan the print media, Act/Nat utterances, or talkhate radio you would think it was an incompetent balls-up.
24. Jum 24

    1 September 2020 at 6:04 pm

    Was Collins' apology for lying printed in the Herald.

    I know there'll be many of her lies/mistruths so I'll narrow it down – https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/09/judith-collins-apologises-over-national-party-ad-chris-hipkins-complained-was-misleading.html
25. Observer Tokoroa 25

    2 September 2020 at 7:55 am

    Beginning of the end – for National

    The big end of the fat national party is continuing to expose itself downwards to the utter gutter.

    The old worn out wrecks in national are bashing the young, talented Jacinda Ardern who has been building a new Democracy in New Zealand.

    Ms Jacinda Ardern is just 40yrs and World renowned in her fields.

    Mrs Collins, an aging, weighty woman, is headed for her seventies. And is not known much anywhere. Not even in Auckland. She wrangles and mangles and calls herself Crusher. She does cook nice cakes for the wealthy.

    National has totally parted from NZ Youth in the most disgusting way. National Does not know what Democracy is. But Has a big interest in keeping the poor poorly paid unhoused.

    They built One House in their 9yr term – under the command of J.Key and Mr English. They absolutely abused our Kiwi Youth. and denied them work and housing.

    Possibly because of age, Mrs Collins has allowed her uncouth husband to write unadulterated abuse of our Prime Minister, Ms Jacinda Ardern. in Auckland rags,

    I can see the National Party soon dying the death. They are there for the money. Your money.

    Democracy will, I believe make a great Parliament.

    Democracy does not look anything like the present rabid national party. It must depart. And it will.

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