It’ll be very interesting to see how the Herald runs the Dirty Politics story, as they appear to be deep in the mire.
Very much doubt they’ll be using the headline ‘Democracy under attack’ despite much more of a case for that banner than when they used it previously.
NZ citizens need better media than this rag.
Minto does not need belated puff pieces from the rag that has slagged him off for most of his adult life. John’s dad lived to 97, passing just recently, so if DNA has anything to do with it…
33 years ago this Sept 12 was the final Springbok tour test at Eden Park. John fought for social justice before that momentous day and ever since. Others even Red Squad leader Ross Muerant have recanted, but he has held the line. While not a party aligned marxist he has made it pretty clear where he stands politically.
He drew attention to the Pan African Congress when most lefties supported the more nationalist ANC (as evinced by reading the ANC Feedom Charter) and has not shied from pointing out the travails and class blunders of post apartheid South Africa.
Mana is a movement of the people, Internet Mana a strategic electoral alliance with a shelf life. I hope he does make it to parliament, the bourgeois parliament will still be there but nonetheless Minto will bring a perspective that is so needed to help spark up the revolutionary embers.
Soon after John Minto “joined” the Mana Party I watched an interview on Triangle TV about his decision (and his life) and he was less than totally convinced that Mana was right for him. He said something along the lines of, “…either it’ll work, or I’ve made the biggest mistake of my political career…”. Probably not those exact words, since he seemed to hold to “old” communist standards about what he can or can’t do in politics. Theoretically, “communists” don’t join political parties as such, their job isn’t to tell people what to think or do, but report what the people say they are at any given time. This is a long long way from what our political system thinks its job might be.
Last night, Julie Anne Genter said that a Canadian report in 2011, showed funding for public service broadcasting in NZ was 2nd lowest level of 18 countries – the US was lowest.
She said in the US media environment was toxic – Faux News a joke, even CNN has gone for infotainment. She said public service broadcasting needs adequate funding.
The US is just not a good example of how public service broadcasting can make an impact on the media environment. The donations approach just doesn’t cut it.
The Aussie state funded public service broadcasting is a better model.
Broadcasting won’t make any difference if the people don’t wake from their apathetic slumber. At that point they start to actively seek out information rather than passively accept it.
That would be a major cultural shift for any group within NZ to achieve. From traditional tribal/feudal lines of command (of the last 1000 or so years, give or take a few notable exceptions) all the way out to nuclear family structure, most of it “threatened” and undermined. Going to bed and then waking up in a world like that… pretty intolerable sudden shock I’d say. No internet, no electricity probably – certainly in the beginning, supply would be compromised and unstable. Marx said it’d take four hundred years to arrive at his ideal, via natural evolution, from how he saw it 100 or so years ago. And his version isn’t even remotely the furthest left a people could go to assure “their own information”. In my ever-present opinion, “apathy” doesn’t entirely sum up the reasons people live in their self-constructed realities.
A public broadcasters job would be to help wake people up to what is happening in the country. The present commercial set up hides that in favour of ratings and cheaply imported shows.
If I was to imagine as damaging a story as possible it would involve the elements of this story including the involvement of Hotchin and perhaps the involvement of a pedophile ring or the black power gang.
At that stage you can guarantee that National’s campaign was approaching peak cray cray …
There are plenty of suspicious things about SCF and the handling of Mr. Hubbard’s case. If they come to light (ie. if the MSM finally stop actively refusing to expose the details) then all bets are off for our friend Mr Key 🙂 And English, and Power for that matter. From what I’ve read and heard it is a veritable powder keg.
Some key pts from memory
English and Key renewed the Govt guarantee the day after they got into power against treasury advise
The got Hubard to put a couple of his own valuable cmp into SCF – scale and helicopter line, which he did willingly.
Lotsa comments made that hubbard was fraudulent- thus reducing the co value!!
Day after the assets were transferred? they charged him with fraud
Power ‘illegally’ used an act to freeze the assets
Westpac go quite a lot from the Govt under the guarantee
Power moved to Westpac
Sold the a very valuable asset (Scales) to Keys nxt door neighbour for 44m
Later listed on stock market for 144m?
And when Hubbard died in the crash, he had a court case pending against the govt.
Apparently the autopsy reports and all the file re the the case are sealed!!!
This is some that I recall, and I can’t be sure about some of the detail.
But It is well worth a listen especially by those who might know more than me.
There is a bigger scandle possibly lurking behind the attacks on the SFO and the FMA. Many bankers, lawyers and their clients bought South Canterbury Finance Bonds at 70c which Bill English redeemed at $1.00 a month later.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10670247
“A private equity fund associated with rich-lister businessman George Kerr is to receive a $100 million taxpayer-funded payout from the Government in order to make the receivership of South Canterbury Finance run more smoothly.
But the Crown’s $1.6 billion payout to 35,000 depositors will include a $350 million payment to NZX-listed bondholders.
Mint Asset Management’s Shane Solly said it was outrageous that some investors had been able to buy the bonds at a discount last week only to have them paid out yesterday. “Those bonds were trading at quite deep discounts. Those people that paid 70c are [now getting a] dollar-something return.” NZ Herald 1st Sept 2010.
Roger Kerr is a mate of Simon Botherway, then head of the Financial Market Authority, whose resignation David Cunliffe demanded on the 21st September 2010. Botherway resigned the following March to head investments in ANZ Wealth. Botherway was no 2 to John Key at Bankers Trust. http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/09/21/mr-botherway-must-step-aside/
Huge amounts of Taxpayers money was doled out to people close to John Key and massive amounts of quick profits were made arising out of Government decisions and decisions of Botherway.
With the shocking revelatation of the past days and weeks about the proposensity of Key ‘s cabinet to use the powers of Government to aid friends there is a need for an enquiry into the management of John Key’s “blind” trust.
It’s really starting to sound like the last 6 years of this government need to be investigated for multiple counts of unethical and illegal behaviour by this government.
Key admitted under hard questioning from Guy Espiner that he received information from Slater about who visited Dotcom !
This shows Key is as corrupt as Collins !
After all the Denials!
Once again, this is why I think Guyon is a good interviewer. It seems a lot of people around here don’t like it when he puts the hard graft on politicians they support, though.
It’s not the Hard graft I object to. It’s the patsy fluff questions he was bringing out for the Right. he’s only gone troppo on them in the last coupla weeks. So he knows on which side his bread’s buttered.
Key is digging a deeper and deeper!
Hooton is changing his tune from yesterday!
He must have had a big tune up over night!
Hooton squealing like a pig spinning like a weasel!
Now shifting the blame to Eaglston!
Hooton right in the loop, hearing about the email from Odgers to the PM’s office from a “staffer (low level)”… Odgers is ACT… Hooton has ACT sympathies… Maybe 1 + 1 = 3 but maybe not?
Are there any poets that can marry these two words as a jazzy
epitaph.
We should have a law to ban such individuals with ruthless hedge fund trading past, (or present) practices to be either in Government but most importantly our head of State! P.M.
Did you catch Guyon’s interview with the Liar in Chief? Have a listen cos it appears to me the Prime Minister’s Office, through its delegate, The Prime Minister, admitted Slater was his source for Peters and Norman have visited DotCom’s mansion?
Karol he said he used information from Cameron Slater for political purposes which is am admission!
Key by admitting that is admitting to be deeply involved in this corruption!
Key can not have it both ways!
Hooton threw Key under the Bus from last Tuesday till Yesterday now Both Key and Hooton are lining up Eaglston to be the next scapegoat!
Yes I did hear that interview and Key’s slip/admission re the (alleged) only matter that he used Slater as a source – who visited KDC’s mansion.
Here is the link to Guyon’ s interview with Key for anyone who missed it. Note the ambiguous title of this segment “Labour Party wants Collins’ office sealed”. It starts with a very short section with Cunliffe – and then the Key interview takes up almost all the remainder starting at about 0.55 in.
Wayne Tempero (KDC’s former bodyguard) has been communicating with Slater for months. It is extremely likely that Wayne was the ultimate source of the information, and since we know he has been talking to Slater…
That was how the PMs links to WO were first ‘discovered/admitted’, because ppl were asking how he got the information about who visited KDC, because there was speculation that he got the information from SIS/Police/GCSB, so Key came clean (or made up a story, who knows?) that WO was the source & Key spoke to WO regularly. WO replied something like ‘If the PM says i’m the source then I guess I am the source’.
So nice to wake up to a beautiful morning,then to here Numbnuts key wobbling all over the place on natradio.Should think he will fall.everyone keep the pressure on please.
Its the Shonkey Pythons Flying Circus!
starring John Kleys minister of silly talks
Slater Spamsalot!
The parrots dead John Kleys no not its just not breathing right now!
Collins Orivida anthrax icecream anyone
If you are still wondering why, over all the things about which there could be an enquiry, it’s this particular allegation against Collins?
The quote below shows the Prime Minister’s office has a glowing statement from Iain Rennie about how much Collins felt positively about Feeley. So chief witness? Head of State Services Commission, case closed. Nothing to see here at the end of the day and we need to be as comfortable with that as the Prime Minster (and his Orifice)
“Meanwhile, State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie said he has been contacted over the past 24 hours by the Prime Minister’s office about the matter.
Mr Rennie said he is extremely concerned by an allegation that a minister has associated with third parties to discuss influencing his assessment of a public service chief executive. If true, it would be entirely unacceptable.
But he said there is no evidence of that.
He said he told the Mr Key’s office that Ms Collins had a positive view of Mr Feeley’s performance throughout her time as minister responsible for the SFO.”
Too early surely for the State Services Commissioner to be ‘opining’ as to substance here…….not that the incumbent should ever ‘opine’ simpliciter. Lest the public ‘opine’ that its servant the State Services Commissioner is of a particular predisposition.
What Judith Collins told Rennie about her views on Feeley and what she did publicly in her role as Justice Minister does not mean that she held the same views of Feeley privately!! Every word she says is suspect now!
Oh and remember when the smearing of Hager was that DotCom was the Hacker? The revelation of the Hacker to a major news outlet and it turns out it wasn’t DotCom. Apologies anyone?
Well, I am probably being naive but surely before running any stories using that material, they would have spoken or met with the “Hacker” and verified for themselves the identiy. I can’t believe the legal department wouldn’t demand that?
Tracey .. the Herald explained they spent up to a week verifying the person delivering them emails as the original hacker, including to the satisfaction of the legals.
They did not outline the exact details, but it was clear they never had a face to face meeting.
1. Nicky Hager seemed genuinely shocked when Kim Dotcom was suggested as our friend, the hacker.
2. Kim has denied it, and so far in his NZ history, he has not been shown to have lied a single time.
3. I think it’s a red herring … and just once last week, I heard Nicky finally I heard referring to ‘him’ ( at his public meeting).
Cherchez la femme ? Cherchez l’homme ? No matter now so long as the material keeps on coming.
This whole business reminds me of Jeffrey Archer’s book, Not a Penny More, Not a Penny Less. I am not a fan of Archer and his dealings, but the book is brilliant and to be recommended. ( Must add I read it before his great downfall, else I would not have ever bothered.)
Early in his life Archer and some friends were cunningly conned out of substantial sums of money. The book is the story of their utu .. and it is very, very clever. As the title explains, they wished only to seize back exactly the amount stolen from them.
Our hacker has explained that when her/his personal motive is understood, it will lead directly to her/him, and only her/him.
So this justice is being eked line by line; leaking drops which became puddles which are becoming lakes which will become a waterfall — oh, careful now, there’s a rowing scull with some men in blue getting swamped by the current …. if you get my drift !
Bring it on Rawshark, please. I admire you immensely and feel deeply indebted to you.
Apparently at the Christchurch WORD Festival, Hager referred to the hacker as “him”. Dom Post report on it here.
And THIS:
A packed room at the WORD Christchurch festival was silent as Hager described secretly meeting the hacker and Dirty Politics source in public parks, convincing him not to release his information over Twitter.
I find it hard to imagine KDC would have met Hager in public parks and not been noticed.
Apparently at the Christchurch WORD Festival, Hager referred to the hacker as “him”. Dom Post report on it here.
And THIS:
A packed room at the WORD Christchurch festival was silent as Hager described secretly meeting the hacker and Dirty Politics source in public parks, convincing him not to release his information over Twitter.
I find it hard to imagine KDC would have met Hager in public parks and not been noticed.
Whaledump has been back on Twitter in the last 24 hours – supposedly having returned from holiday in Vanuatu (Tui ad?).
Yesterday, he/she denied that they were the source of the email leading to Collins’ downfall.
This morning (an hour ago) , again reiterating “Thank you for your patience. As I have said, this isn’t all about party politics.”
I like Whaledump’s dry sense of humour evident in some tweets. Whoever it is, they are very astute, write well and know how to play things out. (Also quick to take responsibility when the first dump included private information that should have been redacted as not being in the public interest.)
Somehow, the style* has a certain familiarity about it and I would not be surprised if it is someone we will recognise if whaledump’s ID comes out.
just love and respect the dry and elegant humour, sparse as it is.
Just occurred to me that Rawshark had been planning a promised release over the weekend, but possibly held back as the Odgers email filled the news bringing about Collins fall. Rawshark has repeated that email release was nothing to do with whaledump.
Maybe today ? The facebook comms of Slater and Collins were suggested ….
The hacker (calling themselves “Rawshark”) is in direct communication with both The Herald and Fairfax. Neither has said that the hacker is KDC, and I suspect they probably would have if that were the case. Not sure if either of them has ruled it out either, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they had (since it is of course, not KDC, much as Key and Slater might like it to be).
If we stop the comparative historical clock somewhere around 1900, moving forward from there, then “the people of Europe” (gross generalisation lol) are in no way a slave to a psychic contagion that would have them line up across tiny patches of no man’s land and machine gun each other to death for Father/Motherland, the King/Queen, the identity of their region, or colonial interests, among other motivations.
We believe the global elite is causing all this degradation of our world “so called order”.
The capitalistic system is failing and these Bilderberg NAZI regenerated agenda plotters have invited Key to their 2011 annual conference so he is in it Don-key deep.
Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported
//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
( We have the full attendance list.)
Why didn’t PM tell NZ he was into Bilderberg?
List of Bilderberg participants 4
New Zealand
• John Key (2011-2012), Prime Minister of New Zealand
No Bilderberg meeting agenda has ever been made public. “It is the epitome of low-profile dark ops, a shadow government hidden in a doorway.” According to critics and close observers, it’s agenda is to weaken all world leadership but their own. It is also, according to a U.S. law called the Logan Act, [15] illegal:
Hooton twice yesterday on Q&A said the emails re Collins he was told about last Wednesday were much worse than what was released — much worse, he repeated.
This morning on DimPost ( link on rt hand side of this page)
“The allegation that some insiders – most prominently Matthew Hooton – are putting around is that as-yet-unreleased documents show Collins passing on information about the prosecution to Slater, who then passed it onto Hotchin’s defense team.”
I am going to have to buy a popcorn maker at this rate …
Hooton on MR this morning repeated that statement and said he suspected it was a case of chinese whispers – he thinks that the email that was released was “the” email, just that its contents weren’t as bad as had been rumoured.
Hootons Chinese whispers would be Close friend and Con-fidant!
Cathy Odgers from Hong Kong!
This Machiavellian Hoodwinker Hooton’s plotting to seal off John Key from his self made scandal is coming unstuck has Eagleston got the balls to stand up to Key or is he going to be the next Oliver North!
Odgers Slater Banks Collins Hotchin Orividas Liu Garrick Graham Farrer Ede Eaglseton Lusk Berend de Boer Joyce ” all Keys the PMs Henchmen ”
Key is holding on by a very thin rope that’s constructed by lies and hair thin alibi’s
I was out of the country BS his office would be in touch all that time its amazing how he is in touch making sure his photo’s playing golf with Obama are instant news but the running of the country can be left to a few office staff!
Key who is everywhere has to fill in for ministers muckups suddenly has another BrainFade but can remember every mistake Helen Clarks govt did when he shifts the blame!
Machiavellian Henchman.
Clutching at straws now!
You are close friends with Cathy Odgers ACT longtime funder and board member or are you having a Brain Fade!
“The game is also known as broken telephone, operator, grapevine, whisper down the lane, gossip, don’t drink the milk, secret message, the messenger game and pass the message.“
Matthew ? You’re famous. Whaledump has just twice tweeted about you !
Whaledump @whaledump · 25m
There are no rumours. @MatthewHootonNZ made them up to ratfuck Judith Collins. And those reporting his rumours are helping him.
Whaledump @whaledump · 26m
Have you learnt nothing from #DirtyPolitics? @MatthewHootonNZ has no idea what I plan to do. How could he?
nb. Matthew … in the interest of accuracy, which we all strive for, should be either “a less racist” equivalent, or “the least racist” equivalent. you are all about accuracy after all ?
Is Cathy Odgers still employed by the Jeeves Group? Her profile has been taken down from its website. Give us the low-down, Mr Well-Connected, will you?
No, am asking Hooton because he’s the one person who knows everyone and everything. Didn’t see the announcement. So now that’s Williams and Odgers who’ve lost employment since all of this. Just a pity RNZ and TVNZ still think Hooton’s a credible “commentator”. Beggars belief, in fact.
What a mind blowing and historical weekend for NZ politics. After all these years the spiders web of corruption has been dusted down from the darkest attic corner of our government and Mummy spider has scuttled away.
Am verrrrryyyy interested to see how the first Ohariu candidates meeting will play out tonight.
Mr Dunne, can you still continue to defend this corrupt government you so easily and weasily support?
Maybe put it to him in the context of his family platfrom.
What SHOULD parents say to their children Mr Dunne? leaders don’t have to be accountable til they choose to be?
OR
Mr Key says he has had to fire, reprimand and accept resignations from 8 Ministers for poor behaviour. We know you cannot control the appalling conduct of this Government, it’s staffers and many of its Ministers, because it happened while you were part of this Government, how can you be a buttress against it?
You say dirty politics isn’t important, policy is, but the tactics coming to light completely undermine integrity and trust in those very policies
Question: As a ‘willing seller’, do you feel you got your money’s worth, considering the sums of money and favours we now know were available at the time ?
Good points yeshe and Tracey. I would sincerely like to ask him a question (and it would be long the lines of ‘willing seller’ ala yeshe) but I usually get an attack of the nerves speaking publicly. If I can’t I hope someone else does.
Himself and the Nat candidate, Brett Hudson, can’t ignore what has happened. If they do, they would be doing a disservice to their audience. Never mind the disservice done to the NZ people as a result of the corrupt behaviour of our leaders and representatives.
you probably know this, but it’s a good idea is to have your question(s) written for yourself in advance. breathe deeply and slowly .. and know many of us are standing there with you ! Go Rosie !
( I survived asking questions to Rob Muldoon .. so Dunne is an easy target, and you are a brave and capable woman !)
Well you’re braver than me if you once confronted Muldoon!
Yes, I would write my question down, so as not to get tripped up by my memory under stress 🙂
The problem is, there are too many questions to ask Dunne. I would like to know “Have you received money from tobacco companies as alleged in Dirty Politics and if so, how much and did this influence your voting decisions?”
One issue of many has been Dunne’s u turn on his support for an cap on interest rates that loan sharks charge. He had planned to vote for Carol Beaumont’s bill that contained this provision, supported it at select committee phase but then voted against it later. He had even had an employee to research on the topic in the beginning and was right behind it. There was an article about it “Interest rate cap campaigner riled” centring on the disappointment of Dunne’s former employee who had done all the research, but that article has been pulled from the kapi mana newspaper site on line, so isn’t available to link.
I’m sure he will do his best to distance himself from the scandals of late but he really is little better than they with the ease with which he can make life easier for himself by supporting such a shoneky govt.
You need to frame your question so it impossible for him not to implicate himself.
For example, I’m not suggesting you ask the ‘willing seller’ question I posed above, but can you see there is no possible answer he can give that gives him an escape route ?
And if you can elicit some humour from the crowd, he will lose points.
I have to go out now, but will be back in a few hours .. and there will be others here who would help if you need it, I’m sure.
Ideas only ..
Mr Dunne, if I vote for you, am I voting for you to be a ‘willing seller’ on any issue, even if it contradicts your promises today ?
Mr Dunne — when you called yourself a ‘willing seller’, can you describe exactly what you meant and what it means for us now for your election promises ?
(Fwiw, I think the ‘willing seller’ line is one that will travel with him forever .. maybe you can frame it into the question you want answered re cap rates ..)
Thanks yeshe. I know I’m going to get that thing I do where my voice disappears when it’s needed most, I really do have a phobia about speaking in public. I don’t think I’m going to be asking anything. Quite happy to write letters, make and put up our billboards in public spaces, leaflet the neighbourhood and generally agitate but If Dunne gets thrown the curly questions, they will be coming from someone else.
I hope that happens because the candidates meetings have been so poorly advertised I wonder if there will even be anyone there tonight.
(Yes, ‘willing seller’ has become his moniker. We’ve used that term in our election billboard campaign. A second board has been stolen btw!)
I’m off now too, won’t be back till tomorrow. Thanks for your suggestions and advice 🙂
clever observation by “Rex” commenting on Tracy Watkin’s opinion piece this morning
“if the National Party was so sure its policy was going to win it elections they wouldn’t have been running around organising right wing smear campaigns, would they?”
Lost track of the timeline… has RNZ asked Hooton yet about his involvement in the attack on Feeley? Ryan made a big deal before of asking Hooton about his personal feelings about the PM’s office and how he had been treated by them, but didn’t get round to asking him about his active involvement in dp as opposed to him being a victim of dp.
” The Minister of Justice asserted to be undermining one of the arms of justice. This is very serious. The Prime Minister’s office having been involved in earlier abuses of the Official Information Act. The Prime Minister misrepresenting advice from the Cabinet Office, that he said cleared Judith Collins when she was tied up in that Oravida business where she had a plain conflict of interest in China. This goes to the heart of government. I’m sure this never happened when Bill English was in charge. This is about ethics not rules”
Something interesting I note, the ipredict powered Live Parliament Projection shows National losing seats in the house hand over fist (down to 42.9% from approx 47% before the weekend.)
He said a Chinese education minister had told him ‘‘that we were getting a reputation for attracting fat, rich lazy, unintelligent Chinese students and if that sort of reputation continues … there is a danger that if we don’t get it right again our reputation will go backwards.’’
I thought any intelligent person would have worked out that the polls have become part of the propagandist landscape. But then again, it’s PR – who has dogma seeping from their pores, intelligence is the last thing, in the mind.
Imagine the scenario where Winnie backs Key (which I don’t think he will) only for Key, Collins and friends to be found guilty of corruption or similar at the enquiry being set up that will take place after the election.
He would have to pull his support for the government=new election.
So it is interesting that National dropped about 5-6% over the course of the weekend on that market – shows how much the rich go-getters believe their dear leader
That is interesting. There must be an element of nat voters who are really turned off by the behaviour of their party and government.
Since Dirty Politics was published and all the you know what has hit the fan I’ve often thought about that group of nat voters who do have some standards and expect some integrity from their party, that old idea of playing fair being at the core of their world view. These would be the trad nat voters, not the new breed of anything goes as long as you get what you want and at whatever price necessary type, of which group type I suspect the two fag lobbyist candidates come from.
(What kind of feedback would the Party be receiving from it’s most loyal members, as an aside?)
If we haven’t been so dulled down and happily bloated on our consumerist lifestyle and we still have a national sense of of playing fair hidden beneath the pile of distractions is it possible that the government will be voted out by a collective expression of disgust?
Even if the most excellent policies being put forward by the Parties of the Left miss the average voter’s radar in the fall out of Slatergate, at least voters have their conscience to guide them.
What we know:
Collins is at least morally corrupt. She was also the minister responsible for the SFO at the time.
Mark Hotckin was using his wealth to avoid a criminal prosecution by The SFO and FMA. As part of this effort he was funding a smear campaign and is, therefore, also at least morally corrupt. It stretches credibility that was this was the sum total of his effort to avoid prosecution.
Bruce Sheppard (Shareholders Association founder and FMA member) was sued by Hotchin for calling him a crook.
The questions that now need to be answered:
Why were the criminal charges against Hotckin dropped?
Was there political input into this decision and if so by whom?
Did Hotckin make any payments to others involved in the decision making or to the National Party around that time (upfront or back-door)?
I’m also curious if Hotchin’s has acted illegally with the smear campaign (I assume so), and whether Slater and Odgers are also open to criminal prosecution. Tracey, any thoughts or seen any opinion on this?
Hmm … this is starting to smell bad.
Dirty Politics contaminating financial market regulation will require further inquiry into Dirty Financial Enforcement.
NZ now feels like some bad recreation of the cultural revolution. A perpetual one at that.
John Key the happy leader, telling kiwis what to think, and purging all who oppose him, by any means necessary.
People being watched, denouncements, a lying media following the party line and you can just guess that the gang of four (Slatter, Collins, Farrir and Hooton) are watching us all with interest.
Please note:
*No Maoists were hurt in the creation of this comment.*
It’s all fun and games until someone loses an eye a buck.
The business community has, until now, been watching the Dirty Politics scandals play out with bemusement, some disappointment and a certain degree of detachment.
But the latest accusations are deeply concerning for those involved in running New Zealand’s capital markets – and covering them.
The implication of a concerted campaign to undermine regulators like the Serious Fraud Office and the Financial Markets Authority shifts focus right to the integrity of the financial system.
Any possibility of links to a senior Government minister – it is important to note, she has denied this – is jaw-dropping.
Rather than worrying about a “Law and Order” lecture, Tracey, it might be a good time to offer sympathy for the dead WINZ workers and their parners, children and families instead.
“WINZ front line workers should not be the targets for whatever gripes or unhappiness the shooter is dealing with.”
Sorry Karol, but while I think the impact on the victims and their families is horrific and beyond imagining, I am unwilling for the probable extreme suffering of the shooter to be reduced to gripes or unhappiness. We have no way of knowing yet why he chose to do what he did, whether he was callous or out of his wits with desperation. But amongst many other reactions I am having today, I am wondering how many lives are the cost of the suffering of a whole class of people.
I don’t think I have posited any reasons or motives. Front line WINZ people are not the powerful shapers of society, or the root causes of suffering of a whole class of people.
I also was thinking we live in a culture that often glorifies physical violence as a solution to problems and a means to exert power, while also treating it as entertainment.
I doubt that anyone who takes a shotgun into WINZ and uses it, is ‘dealing with gripes and unhappiness’. I’m asking you to not minimise the suffering there.
Some front line WINZ staff are hugely part of the problem. It’s possibly too hard to discuss this today without that being taken as victim blaming, and I don’t mean it as a comment on the Ashburton killings (I have no idea what that’s about), but it seems important to name the complexities of the tragedy.
I agree with your comment about the glorification of violence and its relationship to entertainment. I’m thinking about mass shootings and their coverage too, and how we do it in NZ.
Well, I was actually trying to steer away from easy explanations re- the individuals involved. My main first point to start with is that we are all implicated, by way of the kind of society we’ve become.
Well said blue leopard. What a shocking thing to hear on the news today. Unbelievably sad.
Much love to the families of the workers killed, their friends and all staff of WINZ who have lost their work mates in such a frightening and traumatic way.
Bilderberg group secret society planned by NAZI’s in 1943.
John Key as NZ Prime Minister of NZ attended this secretive NAZI founded powerful industrial lobbyist group and kept it from NZ Citizens.
Key obviously learned all about Black ops while secretly attending that 2011-12 controversial Bilderberg secret Global elite group, who want to control the entire globe.
They are known to operate a secret shadowy black ops to damage any opposition to their agenda’s.
Here’s what they say about this group John Key was reported to have meet with and attended a very secretive annual Bilderberg conference.
Why didn’t PM tell NZ he was into Bilderberg?
List of Bilderberg participants 4
New Zealand
• John Key (2011-2012), Prime Minister of New Zealand
No Bilderberg meeting agenda has ever been made public. “It is the epitome of low-profile dark ops, a shadow government hidden in a doorway.” According to critics and close observers, it’s agenda is to weaken all world leadership but their own. It is also, according to a U.S. law called the Logan Act, [15] illegal:
[lprent: sigh. Move it to OpenMike. I suspect this is another one of the strange conspiracy theories full of assertions rather than anything checkable.
Don’t plop this kind of assertion junk on posts outside of OpenMike or I’m liable to reduce my workload the easy (for me) way. ]
lodge an OIA and ask where Key was on those dates. shd be black fun !
and if indeed he was travelling, another OIA to find out how it was paid for.
and from wnhat I have learned over the past few days, word to OIA very specifically .. someone here with experience might be willing to help. Good luck.
Quote from that Wiki link from Prince Bernhard of Holland outlining their aims:
“Here comes our greatest difficulty. For the governments of the free nations are elected by the people, and if they do something the people don’t like they are thrown out. It is difficult to reeducate the people who have been brought up on nationalism to the idea of relinquishing part of their sovereignty to a supernational body…”
to Disturbed – where is the link that shows John Key attended the Bilderberg 2011-12
Global conference, please ?
I can’t find it under the general Wikipedia description.
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WINZ offices closed in Christchurch and Timaru because there has been a gun murder in the office in Ashburton. Why not put security on these offices rather than close them and cause more grief to needy people in these other places? NZ is in dire straits, and the authorities are expected to do their job to help, not lock down large areas because they are upset. Large numbers of needy people are upset the majority of their day.
Since the Labour Party decided to close down helping institutions and treat people in the community (possibly in a shoebox in the middle of the road) it has increased the number of people at risk in the community and not able to access help for their poor stressed disoriented brains. All because of an ideology that has produced a fairy tale of a better way, (and more cheaply everyone hoped). But the real tale was that community treatment was better only if a lot of extra money was spent on providing facilities and support and stimulating activities.
But doing things thoroughly and effectively is not the present NZ government way. So many criminals in jail or out are mentally disturbed and their unbalanced behaviours increase the breakdown in a once civilised society. And figures show large numbers in prison are mentally out of it, and unable to get help. A mean, broken society Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble and Caygill, Ruth Richardson, Jenny Shipley and other self-centred fat cats have left us with.
I noticed when talking to Kathryn Ryan about the work of the SFO which seems to have been rorted by supposedly responsible officials, and referring to Mark Hotchins, who is a a fine example of a s-c fat cat, a previous SFO CEO said nothing reported about Hotchins would surprise him.
Well being that shots have been heard at the Ashburton river (thanks radio) I’d guessing they’ll find him pretty soon but yeah thats another good reason to not open the offices
They wouldn’t want to take chances that the gunman didn’t have a mate who might take another crack at the place or at another branch. Lives have to be put before anyone’s inconvenience.
Mr Slater’s email to “Mark,[name redacted] Carrick” appears to have been addressed to 3 people. Do we know who the person whose name has been blacked out is? Do we know why the name was hidden and who hid it?
I had assumed the name was that of the leaker but we now have conflicting information about who leaked it. Ms Odgers admits she handed it over, though not why. Striking out her name would serve no purpose – neither protection from the odium of association because she’s referred to freely in the letter, nor protection from her fellow miscreants, because they would know who the 3rd recipient was.
But today Kathryn Ryan insisted that the name and purpose of the leaker is unknown. So we may dismiss Odgers’ claim as diversionary and ask again who struck out one of the recipients’ names and why. And, whose name is it?
While those questions are logical, I suspect that they don’t incorporate that odgers is, in many areas, most likely to be functionally an idiot.
To tell the truth, the initial line of ‘she heard about more emails, assumed that one was included, and tried to preemptively come clean’ put me in mind of the wikileaks episode where the news orgs told the US govt about the docs, and the govt started a list of the docs that they thought should be withheld on security/safety/public interest grounds, but stopped halfway through when they realised that they were just telling the papers which cables were the juiciest lol
This Ashburton shooting is beyond tragic. Women gunned down at their place of work in small town New Zealand; the shooter – very likely someone with mental health issues – may have been shot by the AOS and we all – ALL OF US – have lost another shred of our tattered claim to be a decent and fair society.
No sanctimonious lectures from rightwing hypocrites please – but my first thought after the horror had subsided – was how the law and order brigade will milk the situation.
“No sanctimonious lectures from rightwing hypocrites please – but my first thought after the horror had subsided – was how the law and order brigade will milk the situation.”
– I understand, mine was how long it’ll be before someone blames John Key
PR I said before you were a dogmatic shit, now I think you a disrespectful disingenuous individual as well. But please feel free, to keep trying to make political mileage over this tragedy, you low life.
PR very sad indictment of your self when all you are worried about is not connected to this in way desperate disingenuously distracting and completely dispicable!
apologize now!
Well, you didn’t leave politics out of it either, you dimwitted tool. You posted a political comment at 1.17. The difference between you and Bradford is that nobody takes you seriously.
“No sanctimonious lectures from rightwing hypocrites please – but my first thought after the horror had subsided – was how the law and order brigade will milk the situation.”
but my first thought after the horror had subsided
after the horror had subsided
Since most of you seem to be suffering from advance leftism, typical symptoms being unable to see what is written and making up own narrative I thought it might be salient just to reiterate exactly what I was replying to just so I’m not taken out of context
Did you all get that? I’ll repeat it once more for those that are a bit slow (GIMP supporters)
“No sanctimonious lectures from rightwing hypocrites please – but my first thought after the horror had subsided – was how the law and order brigade will milk the situation.”
I was agreeing with the poster but coming from a right-wing perspective
You’re an idiot with significant comprehension problems, PR. It’s a lucky thing for you that TS doesn’t ban for stupidity, but then the left are always empathetic with those with less of society’s usual minimum cognitive skills.
Oddly, the column is about DHC’s depression, not politics.
But sorry, Debbie, there are a bucketload of emails showing Cathy acting just like a Machiavellian Cruella de Vil. If the 101 Dalmatian-coat fits…
DimPost makes a great point today mentioning the DHC-Slater connection (she gifted him that Canon Media Award). So how many lines has she been running for Slater/Key also?
Edit – in the comments someone mentions this: “Surely on the basis of your friendship with Cactus Kate, you had an obligation to the organizers of the Canon Media awards to decline from partaking as a judge in the Blogging award category based on this revealed conflict of interest.” Hmmmm, did she declare that as a conflict? How close friends are they? Because if they really are such good friends she’s defending Odgers at this point (when no one else would touch her) then she’s far too close a friend to be able to judge impartially (i.e. she should have bowed out as judge). Time to email Canon…
I’ve just re-read the start of DHC’s column and I’m utterly perplexed. How can you defend someone, even a friend, who has conspired to target innocent public servants? And who is bullying ‘poor’ Odgers? DHC doesn’t mention anything – just waves a hand in the general direction of the left.
By all means stick by your mates BUT dont submit it as a piece of journalism and do a poor me on behalf of that mate. That is not good journalistic integrity imo.
Completely agree. I cannot understand Hill Cone’s thinking in writing this or the paper for publishing it. As you say, Odgers is involved in undermining democracy but Hill Cone thinks it’s a bit of a laff? Just how closely connected is Hill Cone with this band of thugs? So closely that she’s lost all perspective it would seem.
Deborah Hill Cone is the sole judge who awarded Cameron Slater the Canon Best Blogger of the Year award.
Her first column after the release of Dirty Politics was a masterpiece of deflection. No mention of any involvement, a very personal piece on her fragility and her decision to continue with her column.
I have not yet read any of her columns that make sense or provide any insight.
Molly- well and rather kindly said.
Columnists who write about topical issues are often worth reading.
Columnists who write about themselves are never worth reading.
shame they are calling for it to be run before the election .. that’s just impossible and a little careless in the wording imho. fine idea tho in principle.
“I don’t know anything about databases and how they are stored but it seems odd to have before and after but not that particular one.”
I thought that odd too, but I’m not sure we have the full story on who did the hacking and who got the data. Lanth points out that Hager took some but not all of the docs. Rawshark took others to give to various MSM. There may have been more than one hacker involved. Or as you say, maybe it’s something to do with data storage.
Anyone know what the deal with with advance voting? I just tried to find something about it online and elections.org.nz says there will be something in the mail the week before the election, but I thought advanced voting was open already.
I dont think it is available yet. Even the electoral commission would have the link up. I have emailed and asked. Will let you know.
Weka
Got an answer from MSD on my OIA. Put it on that guest post I wrote. Ministry of Finance seem to be having trouble locating the summary bill got from paula though… So even when your request is very short and specific, you dont get it in one or two days when it relates to a political statement
Online?
Mmm. Maybe you had come across something in passing about overseas voters being able to return their voting papers by uploading them to a secure server on the Electoral Commission’s website?
@kiwiri. Thanks ever so-I looked for ages on the useless election site to try to find a list of Advance Voting places (I’m overseas on 20th) and couldn’t find it.
Have shared the web address (above) on Facebook and suggest all Standardista’s do the same.
I was just hearing about the Game of Thrones book A Feast of Crows. The usual mixup of plots and schemes and dirty dealings and loyalty. Sounds like our present political scene.
The Ashburton shooting appears to be the result of an acute failure of social services in the regions, likely due to cutbacks in mental health support services and extra pressure on WINZ to minimise payments.
Mr Tully reportedly asked for help on numerous occasions to multiple departments but the state of social help in regions like Ashburton is so woeful that he seems to have been ignored.
The public did not want a bar of Mr Tully and now two innocent people are dead.
Right wing people, including the current government, refuse to accept that not every person is capable of living up to their mantra of self reliance.
You can judge a society by the way it treats its vulnerable people.
Rangitata’s Jo Goodhew is the associate minister of health, FFS. She knew this case well but it’s not in her, or anyone in her government’s, ideology to do anything about it.
Nothing about the behaviours you describe says mental health consumer to me. He might be or he might not be, but too many people are making judgements today without any evidence.
I mean, if we were really going to look at mental health, how about the numerous people who reported him livign in his tent, and then him being moved on by the police (whatever the fuck that’s a euphamism for).
Not sure what politically correct point you are trying to make weka, but this man is definitely going to get his mental health assessment now, courtesy of our criminal justice system.
Well duh, he’s just committed an extremely violent crime, of course he will be psychologically assessed.
And fuck off with the PC slur. You still haven’t said why you think this man should have been assessed by a mental health team in the past. And you seem unaware of the reality that ending up in mental health services can make things worse for some people, esp if their basic needs aren’t being met and they get unnecessarily labelled instead.
I’ll answer your questions when you answer the one I’ve already asked twice: what makes you think that Tully was in need of a mental health assessment in the past?
Maybe you have read something I haven’t. Can you please link to something that indicates he needed a mental health assessment by the state. Getting into trouble with the authorities (not sure what that means, do you mean pitching his tent in the park?), isn’t inherently a sign of mental health problems. He might just have really needed a place to live.
“he was getting into more and more trouble with authorities.”
I find it hard to reconcile this view cv, that someone who is getting into trouble with the authorities has a mental illness, with many of your previous posts that lead me to believe that you understand that people who are at the bottom of society should stand up to authority to fight for what they legitimately need. etc, etc.
In fact hard to reconcile is an understatement. I’m actually shocked that this association of anti-authoritarianism and mental health issues comes from you.
No-one could be more at the bottom of society than this guy. If in fact he did have a mental health problems (diagnosed long-term illness, or temporarily unable to cope) the removal of stressors may have eased the symptoms of it whereas mental health assessment and still being homeless and at war with social service may not have.
Re your long comment below:
“At the same time, I have no doubt that cheaply available social housing and other supports would have taken most of the pressure off Tully months ago.”
And that’s the context isn’t it? Society and government institutions not working for people. An immense tragedy that may not have happened if health, housing and income suport systems and other authorities functioned for the people they should serve.
Hi Weka. I’m just upset that someone like this wasn’t listened to by someone in Ashburton other than the reporter from The Guardian who appeared to have some compassion for the man’s plight. It’s lead to the death of two mothers? Daughters? Sisters?
There was a lot of hand wringing from officials interviewed for the same article that day in August including the associate minister of health, but still he was allowed to sleep by the side of the Ashburton River in the middle of winter.
From the local mental health services or whatever other services available there, it’s not been good enough.
I can understand the upset Wb. I still don’t see the connection with mental health services. I’ve just read read this Herald article (haven’t watched the video), and there is nothing in there to indicate he needed mental health team support. Not saying he didn’t, but am unclear why people are assuming he did.
My concern here is that people are making a connection between mental health and violence, or mental health and being homeless that doesn’t exist. We all have mental health, and people are affected differently by circumstances. I still reckon the guy needed a home.
Perhaps it’s easier for some people to believe that such an aweful crime can be committed by someone who is mentally unwell, instead of someone who is desperate in their life circumstances. (I have no idea if he was either).
My concern here is that people are making a connection between mental health and violence, or mental health and being homeless that doesn’t exist.
Your concern is admirable, in terms of asserting the general case. But IMO it’s also misdirected. I spent some time tonight researching further. And as I intuited, there are very strong associations between mental health and homelessness in the literature that perhaps you appear unaware of. At the same time, I have no doubt that cheaply available social housing and other supports would have taken most of the pressure off Tully months ago.
It is estimated that 20-25% of homeless people, compared with 6% of the non-homeless, have severe mental illness.[2] Others estimate that up to one-third of the homeless suffer from mental illness.
Conclusion: Schizophrenia is much more prevalent among homeless persons than in the population at large. Future research should focus on better ways of meeting the mental health care needs of homeless people with schizophrenia.
There is a strong body of evidence that points to markedly higher rates of mental health problems in populations of homeless adults than among the securely domiciled. Most studies support the finding that unusually high rates of psychosis and substance misuse are a common feature of homeless populations.
Mental illness was the third largest cause of homelessness for single adults (mentioned by 48% of cities). For homeless families, mental illness was mentioned by 12% of cities as one of the top 3 causes of homelessness.
More than 124,000 – or one-fifth – of the 610,000 homeless people across the USA suffer from a severe mental illness, according to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. They’re gripped by schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or severe depression — all manageable with the right medication and counseling but debilitating if left untreated
In late 2013, Canterbury District Health Board records indicated that 146 mental health service users were either homeless, living in unsafe housing or waiting in services they no longer needed. The Christchurch City Mission estimated about one person a day visited seeking accommodation, with about a quarter suffering some mental illness.
sorry mate, but I’m perfectly aware of the connections between homelessness and mental health, and I didn’t need to look them up before commenting. What I’m objecting to is you suggesting that every homeless person has a psych evaluation, simply because they’re homeless, because that is prejudicial.
I suggest you go do some research on prejudice against people with mental health issues, prejudice against people who don’t act normally and who get labelled mentally ill, prejudice against people who are homeless, and check out the anti-psychiatry movement.
It’s really important to not pathologise people around mental health, and it’s important to not connect up mental health and violence automatically.
You also still seem to think that giving someone an assessment is going to be the appropriate thing, whereas it might not, it might just make things worse. For instance, say he gets assessed and starts cycling in and out of daycare or even a psych ward. Maybe they get the diagnosis wrong (maybe he’s not mentall unwell or maybe he is and they still get it wrong), and then it takes time to get his meds right (or he doesn’t actually need any and the meds make his mental health deteriorate). Now he has another whole complex layer of stress on him, and still nowhere to live and less capacity to deal with it.
(that is all hypothetical btw, I don’t know what Tully’s situation was).
What I’m objecting to is you suggesting that every homeless person has a psych evaluation, simply because they’re homeless, because that is prejudicial.
WTF? Where the hell did I suggest this??? You’re the one who tried to say that there was no connection:
My concern here is that people are making a connection between…mental health and being homeless that doesn’t exist.
Then you tried to back track by saying??? –
but I’m perfectly aware of the connections between homelessness and mental health
What? These are two completely contradictory statements. It is associated or there’s no association. Which one do you want to go with, please.
I have asked you repeatedly why you think Tully should have had a mental health assessment in the past. You haven’t answered that question directly, so you can’t blame me for then trying to guess what you mean.
“but I’m perfectly aware of the connections between homelessness and mental health” = statistically, correlations. But can’t be applied to any one individual automatically, or all homeless people, hence,
“My concern here is that people are making a connection between…mental health and being homeless that doesn’t exist.”
I’ll ask again, what evidence or theory do you have that Tully should have had a mental health assessment in the past, apart from him being a homeless person? (which I think we are in agreement now isn’t a criteria for a psych evaluation).
Don’t use directly contradictory statements and positions is all I ask.
(which I think we are in agreement now isn’t a criteria for a psych evaluation).
Sorry I disagree. The presence of significant risk factors is naturally an indicator for initiating a health assessment; even if an individual risk factor is not sufficient to take action on, it must still be considered and weighed up. Why do you not agree.
Prolonged homelessness is a major risk factor. The literature says so and you agree. Add to that disruptive behaviour in the WINZ office leading him to be trespassed, and at least one reported contact with police.
Also, we know what he did to innocent people in the WINZ office, and can guess that he harboured highly violent thoughts for some time leading up to the day. A formal mental health assessment could have picked that up.
Now let me ask you a question. If you don’t think the above was enough to justify a mental health assessment, what in your view would.
“Don’t use directly contradictory statements and positions is all I ask.”
My statements aren’t contradictory. I’ve explained them, do you understand what I meant now?
“(which I think we are in agreement now isn’t a criteria for a psych evaluation).
Sorry I disagree.”
So you think being homeless, on its own, is enough to warrant a psych evaluation?
I don’t. I think that being homeless and at statistical risk of mental illness means that the people with mental health problems who are homeless should get the support they need and that the people who are homeless without mental health problems should not be assessed unless they want to be. Saying that those who don’t need it should be assessed is disempowering, and creates all sorts of problem (some of which I have already mentioned).
Now you bring in other factors, which gives me a better idea of what you are thinking.
“The presence of significant risk factors is naturally an indicator for initiating a health assessment; even if an individual risk factor is not sufficient to take action on, it must still be considered and weighed up. Why do you not agree.”
Because in every case it’s going to be individual. And we, sitting on the internet, don’t have enough information to make that judgement call about Tully. Or anyone really.
One of the things I am probably objecting to is your apparent disempowerment model. Your original statement,
“He should have been assessed for mental health issues, and I hope he was.”
This implies that someone else should have made sure he had an assessment, irrespective of whether he needed one or not, or wanted one or not. You are suggesting that a man who is probably already experiencing multiple disempowerments from multiple agencies, be subjected to another one in an area that will make him highly vulnerable. That’s not a good idea. It’s also not ok to be pushing people to have psych evaluations when what they need is to be provided with a home.
Here’s what I’ve heard in the last day:
– he pitched a tent in a public place
– he was homeless (how long for?)
– his behaviour was disruptive enough at WINZ to get him barred (what level of behaviour is required for that? How is it related to mental health?)
– he has had one instance of contact with the police (what for? how was that related to mental health?)
None of those singly or together suggest reason that he should have been subjected to a mental health assessment. I’m not saying he didn’t need help with his mental health, I’m saying we have no idea whether he need help or not.
I am curious however where you think an assessment might have been offered. Referral from WINZ? The police? The mayor? HNZ?
“Also, we know what he did to innocent people in the WINZ office, and can guess that he harboured highly violent thoughts for some time leading up to the day.”
We only know that with hindsight, so it’s not relevant to a conversation about past assessments. I do agree that closer to the day people may have seen things of concern, but say 6 weeks ago when he visited the Mayor? There may not have been any need for an assessment.
“Now let me ask you a question. If you don’t think the above was enough to justify a mental health assessment, what in your view would.”
eg
– If he had been talking about his mental health and/or asking for help with his mental health, and those things sounded extreme enough to warrant the state getting involved.
– if he had been saying things like “I can’t cope”
– If he had displayed symptoms of poor mental health eg had been distressed frequently and unable to manage that distress (although again, he might have been better being offered support rather than an assessment)
– if he had a history of mental health problems
– if when he was barred from WINZ or had his contact with the police he presented as either not understanding what was happening, or his thinking was out of order (and I don’t mean him being angry or upset).
I can think of other things too, but they mostly don’t inherently mean a mental health assessment is needed. I think there would be other indicators too (and I’m mindful of the fact that many people will hide mental health issues and men in particular are less likely to ask for help), but it’s not really my field. All I’m saying is that the little bit in the news that we know about isn’t sufficient to say he should have been assessed and that it’s unhelpful to speculate about his mental health when we really have no idea.
My tuppence worth is to wonder at the mental state of people who phone complaints about a homeless guy pitching a tent instead of taking him a cuppa, having a chat, asking if there’s anything they can do, asking if there’s anything he needs… Y’know?
@ Weepus beard
We are a society that doesn’t care (to examine oneself and our society in general, and to extend a hand to those knocked down by our society’s systems eg alcohol pushing, education pushing with no jobs to follow, and just inability to cope with the hypocrisy gap between stated societal beliefs and the reality.)
The dismantling of communities is a very real social problem.
The Mayor when interviewed on RNZ this evening felt it necessary to state multiple times that Tully had the option of somewhere to live in TImaru, but chose to stay in Ashburton. No mention of context or reasons or whether Tully had an actual choice or just one the Mayor perceived.
Weka, I can’t work out what you know and don’t know and am unsure about what you are trying to say. You’ve not made yourself clear at all.
He was brought up in Ashburton. His father had died in Ashburton, and he, in his own words, had come home to die and be buried next to his father. He didn’t want to be in Timaru or Christchurch.
Thanks, I didn’t know that about his father, knew the rest. My comment above was a dig at the Mayor’s mental health (which is really a dig at his consciousness or lack of).
What?! You made the assumption that the Major’s behaviour was an aspect of his mental health?! And then you stigmatised those with health issues by using “mental health” in a negative frame? Oh heavens, call out the guard!
lol this whole discussion has now dissolved into “PC madness” lol.
No, I’m taking a poke at the people here who think that being homeless is criteria for mental health assessment, but being in a position of power and not helping a homeless person isn’t.
@ paul s
I see you are a superior RWNJ. From your imagined higher intellect looking at the lower orders and passing sarcastic remarks. Can you just keep staying at the side, not getting in our way as we try to regain a decent country and assist the damaged from the neo liberal global free market earthquakes.
We won’t get help from you, just don’t try to prevent our efforts as we get on with project NZ Beneficent, all getting prosperous and, reasonably happy, together.
Not big on linking to other sites but Chris Trotter has gathered all his emotion and sharply blunt prose today and not let it go to waste.
In Ashburton you can still catch a glimpse of New Zealand as it used to be. That place of bright and brittle friendships where, behind the post-war Kiwis’ welcoming smiles, lust and greed and violence seethed like a sack full of eels.
That was an attempt a juxtaposition. A clumsy one at that, sorry.
I like language that creates images and draws scenes as if in a play and Trotter does this freely. He described Bill English’s last budget by invoking a picture of those left out in the cold looking in at the National Party elite comfortable in their warmly lit homes.
That was my own amateur attempt at doing something similar.
I am sure I read somewhere that Mark Hotchins mansion was apparently bought at a huge discount by one of the Oravida directors – when it was sold off when his assets were frozen, but now I can’t find it.
..i actually scratched my head when beyer was announced as a candidate..
..(but that’s another story..)
..beyer seemed to be pushing the idea that somehow harawira/harre/sykes/minto et al..are dotcoms’ playthings…
..which is just farcical/ludicrous to anyone with the slightest knowledge of those people..
..and having heard boag say she had been speaking to a mana person..(who said much the same that beyer said..)
..and if boag wasn’t just outright lying…(is this a day ending is a ‘y’..)…i thought that beyer was most likely the mana ‘insider’ boag had been talking to..
..(them knowing each other from when beyer was in parl b4…)
..and i think beyer if is unhappy..she should just resign..
I don’t suppose you know where abouts you heard Boag talking about that?
It is a real pity re Beyer’s comments.
I am a wee bit divided about the whole Dotcom/Mana connection.
I initially thought it was an excellent idea, yet have reservations about it now 🙁
I really like the way Dotcom speaks out on things, perhaps a little uncomfortable since he became so strongly involved in politics.
Love Laila’s style, she’s fantastic!
I probably would prefer that the two parties were more separate from one another – I thought they were going to be distinct from one another, yet joined as far as vote count. They appeal to quite different groups.
yeah, i’m a wee bit torn as to whether it makes me more or less likely to vote imp on the day – kdc is a bit meh, but laila was a fine choice. And Hone’s softened a bit, too. Growing a bit of discretion.
Funny!…bcos I am slightly on the other side – support Mana – like the strong voice/support for the least privileged in society that they provide. Definitely approve of Laila, yet less fussed re the thrust of the Internet policies.
I guess the good thing about it is I don’t have to choose between the two 🙂 But definitely not happy if there is going to be lack of unity between the two.
I am going to treat that tv3 item with suspicion until further information comes to light.
I wish Mana would put out some sort of statement on what Beyer said. It is pretty worrying and could simply be some awful made-up spin to destabilize the party.
Exactly, if Beyer feels that strongly, jump the canoe. Can’t believe she’d wait until three weeks out before springing this, though. It’s not her opinion that irks me, it’s the timing. She’s had months to spit the KDC dummy, why leave it this late? The Nats have a spare space in their rowboat now that Key’s taken Cupcake Collins’ oar off her. Perhaps Beyer would enjoy being among that crew, instead? Because what she’s done is a bit of a dirty trick in its own right.
Downtown @D3vils_Helper 48 mins
@nikkikaye Senior Housing Department managers predicted that this would happen if their functions were handed to WINZ why did no one listen?
Downtown @D3vils_Helper 57 mins
@PaulHenryShow This can be attributed to WINZ taking on Housing Dept functions without the proper Training. WINZ have a different agenda
Tomorrow afternoon, if things go really really badly, I may find myself down to one eye. People who used to sneer at me on Twitter will no doubt say So what's changed? Nothing, that's what, you one-eyed lefty.I don’t mean to be dramatic, it’s just a routine bit of cataract ...
A few weeks ago an invitation dropped into my email inbox to attend a joint Treasury/Motu seminar on recent, rather major, changes that had apparently been made to the discount rates used by The Treasury to evaluate proposals from government agencies. It was all news to me, but when ...
All your life is Time magazineI read it tooWhat does it mean?PressureI'm sure you'll have some cosmic rationaleBut here you are with your faithAnd your Peter Pan adviceYou have no scars on your faceAnd you cannot handle pressureSongwriter: Billy Joel.Christopher Luxon is under pressure from all sides. The reviews are ...
After seeing yet-more-months of political debate and policy decisions to ‘go for growth’ by pulling the same old cheap migration and cheap tourism levers without nearly-enough infrastructure, or any attempt to address the same old lack of globally conventional tax incentives for investment, I thought it would be worth issuing ...
The plans for the buildings that will replace the downtown carpark have been publicly notified giving us the first detailed glance at what is proposed for one of the biggest and best development sites in the city centre. The council agreed to sell the site to Precinct Properties for $122 ...
With the Reserve Bank expected today to return the Official Cash Rate to where it was in mid-2022 comes a measure of how much of a psychological impact the rate has. Federated Farmers has published its latest six-monthly farm confidence survey, which shows that profit expectations have fallen and risen ...
Kiwis Disallowed From Waiting Lists Based on Arbitrary MeasuresWellington hospital are now rejecting patients from specialist waiting lists due to BMI (body mass index).This article from Rachel Thomas for The Post says it all (emphasis mine):A group of Porirua GPs are sounding alarm bells after patients with body mass indexes ...
The Prime Minister says he's really comfortable with us not knowing the reoffending rate for his boot camp programme.They asked him for it at yesterday’s press conference, and he said, nah, not telling, have to respect people's privacy.Okay I'll bite. Let's say they release this information to us:The rate of ...
Warning 1: There is a Nazi theme at the end of this article related to the disabled community. Warning 2: This article could be boring!One day, last year, I excitedly opened up a Substack post that was about how to fight back, and the answer at the end was disappointing ...
This may be rhetorical but here goes: did any of you invest in the $Libra memecoin endorsed and backed by Argentine president and darling of the global Right Javier Milei (who admitted to being paid a fee for his promotion of the token)? You know, the one that soared above ...
Last week various of the great and good of New Zealand economics and public policy trooped off to Hamilton (of all places) for the annual Waikato Economics Forum, one of the successful marketing drives of university’s Vice-Chancellor. My interest was in the speeches delivered by the Minister of Finance and ...
The Prime Minister says the Government would be open to sending peacekeepers to Ukraine if a ceasefire was reached. The government has announced a $30 million spend on tourism infrastructure and biodiversity projects, including $11m spent to improve popular visitor sites and further $19m towards biodiversity efforts. A New Zealand-born ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler “But what about when the sun doesn't shine?!” Ah yes, the energy debate’s equivalent of “The Earth is flat!” Every time someone mentions solar or wind power, some self-proclaimed energy expert emerges from the woodwork to drop this supposedly devastating truth bomb: ...
This post by Nicolas Reid was originally published on Linked in. It is republished here with permission.In this article I look into data on how well the rail network serve New Zealanders, and how many people might be able to travel by train… if we ran more than a ...
Hi,Before we get into Hayden Donnell’s new column about how yes, Donald Trump is definitely the Antichrist, I wanted to touch on something feral that happened in New Zealand last week.Members of Destiny Church pushed and punched their way into an Auckland library, apparently angry it was part of Pride ...
Despite delays, logjams and overcrowding in our emergency departments, funding constraints are limiting the numbers of nurses and doctors being trained. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Tuesday, February 18 are:A NZ Herald investigation ...
Now that the US has ripped up the Atlantic alliance, Europe is more vulnerable now than at any time since the mid-1930s. Apparently, Europe and Ukraine itself will not have a seat at the table in the talks between US President Donald Trump and Russian leader Vladimir Putin that will ...
Olivia and Noah and Hana are going to the library!It is fun to go to the library. It has books and songs and mat time and people who smile at you and say, Hello Olivia, what have you been doing this morning?The library is more fun than the mall. At ...
New World Orders: The challenge facing Christopher Luxon and Chris Hipkins is how to keep their small and vulnerable nation safe and stable in a world whose economic and political climate the forty-seventh American president is changing so profoundly.IT IS, SURELY, the ultimate Millennial revenge fantasy. Calling senior Baby-Boomer and Gen-X ...
“This might surprise you, Laurie, but I reckon Trump’s putting on a bloody impressive performance.”“GOODNESS ME, HANNAH, just look at all those Valentine’s Day cards!”“Occupational hazard, Laurie, the more beer I serve, the more my customers declare their undying love!”“Crikey! I had no idea business was so good.” Laurie squinted ...
In 2005, Labour repealed the long-standing principle of birthright citizenship in Aotearoa. Why? As with everything else Labour does, it all came down to austerity: "foreign mothers" were supposedly "coming to this country to give birth", and this was "put[ting] pressure on hospitals". Then-Immigration Minister George Hawkins explicitly gave this ...
And I just hope that you can forgive usBut everything must goAnd if you need an explanation, nationThen everything must goSongwriters: James Dean Bradfield / Sean Anthony Moore / Nicholas Allen Jones.Today, I’d like to talk about a couple of things that happened over the weekend:Brian Tamaki’s Library Invasion and ...
New reporting highlights how Brooke van Velden refuses to meet with the CTU but is happy to meet with fringe Australian-based unions. Van Velden is pursuing reckless changes to undermine the personal grievance system against the advice of her own officials. Engineering New Zealand are saying that hundreds of engineers ...
The NZCTU strongly supports the Employment Relations (Employee Remuneration Disclosure) Amendment Bill. This Bill represents a positive step towards addressing serious issues around unlawful disparities in pay by protecting workers’ rights to discuss their pay and conditions. This Bill also provides welcome support for helping tackle the prevalent gender and ...
Years of hard work finally paid off last week as the country’s biggest and most important transport project, the City Rail Link reached a major milestone with the first test train making its way slowly though the tunnels for the first time. This is a fantastic achievement and it is ...
Engineers are pleading for the Government to free up funds to restart stalled projects. File Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Monday, February 17 are:Engineering New Zealand CEO Richard Templer said yesterday hundreds of ...
It’s one of New Zealand’s great sustaining myths: the spirit of ANZAC, our mates across the ditch, the spirit of Earl’s Court, Antipodeans united against the world. It is also a myth; it is not reality. That much was clear from a series of speakers, including a former Australian Prime ...
Many people have been unsatisfied for years that things have not improved for them, some as individuals, many more however because their families are clearly putting in more work, for less money – and certainly far less purchase on society. This general discontent has grown exponentially since the GFC. ...
A listing of 34 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, February 9, 2025 thru Sat, February 15, 2025. This week's roundup is again published soleley by category. We are still interested in feedback to hone the categorization, so if ...
The Salvation Army’s State of the Nation report shows worsening food poverty and housing shortages mean more than 400,000 people now need welfare support, the highest level since the 1990s. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate and ...
You're just too too obscure for meOh you don't really get through to meAnd there's no need for you to talk that wayIs there any less pessimistic things to say?Songwriters: Graeme DownesToday, I thought we’d take a look at some of the most cringe-inducing moments from last week, but don’t ...
Please note: I’ve delayed my “What can we do?” article for this video.The video above shows Destiny Church members assaulting staff and librarians as they pushed through to a room of terrified parents and young children.It was posted to social media last night.But if you read Sinead Boucher’s Stuff, you ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is sea level rise exaggerated? Sea levels are rising at an accelerating rate, not stagnating or decreasing. Warming global temperatures cause land ice ...
Here is a scenario, but first a historical parallel. Hitler and the Nazis could well have accomplished everything that they wanted to do within German borders, including exterminating Jews, so long as they confined their ambitious to Germany itself. After all, the world pretty much sat and watched as the ...
I’ve spent the last couple of days in Hamilton covering Waikato University’s annual NZ Economics Forum, where (arguably) three of the most influential people in our political economy right now laid out their thinking in major speeches about the size and role of Government, their views on for spending, tax ...
Simeon Brown’s Ideology BentSimeon Brown once told Kiwis he tries to represent his deep sense of faith by interacting “with integrity”.“It’s important that there’s Christians in Parliament…and from my perspective, it’s great to be a Christian in Parliament and to bring that perspective to [laws, conversations and policies].”And with ...
Severe geological and financial earthquakes are inevitable. We just don’t know how soon and how they will play out. Are we putting the right effort into preparing for them?Every decade or so the international economy has a major financial crisis. We cannot predict exactly when or exactly how it will ...
Questions1. How did Old Mate Grabaseat describe his soon-to-be-Deputy-PM’s letter to police advocating for Philip Polkinghorne?a.Ill-advisedb.A perfect letterc.A letter that will live in infamyd.He had me at hello2. What did Seymour say in response?a.What’s ill-advised is commenting when you don’t know all the facts and ...
NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi President Richard Wagstaff has called on OJI Fibre Solutions to work with the government, unions, and the community before closing the Kinleith Paper Mill. “OJI has today announced 230 job losses in what will be a devastating blow for the community. OJI needs to work with ...
NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi President Richard Wagstaff is sounding the alarm about the latest attack on workers from Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety Brooke van Velden, who is ignoring her own officials to pursue reckless changes that would completely undermine the personal grievance system. “Brooke van Velden’s changes will ...
Hi,When I started writing Webworm in 2020, I wrote a lot about the conspiracy theories that were suddenly invading our Twitter timelines and Facebook feeds. Four years ago a reader, John, left this feedback under one of my essays:It’s a never ending labyrinth of lunacy which, as you have pointed ...
And if you said this life ain't good enoughI would give my world to lift you upI could change my life to better suit your moodBecause you're so smoothAnd it's just like the ocean under the moonOh, it's the same as the emotion that I get from youYou got the ...
Aotearoa remains the minority’s birthright, New Zealand the majority’s possession. WAITANGI DAY commentary see-saws manically between the warmly positive and the coldly negative. Many New Zealanders consider this a good thing. They point to the unexamined patriotism of July Fourth and Bastille Day celebrations, and applaud the fact that the ...
The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with regular and special guests, including: and on the week in geopolitics, including the latest from Donald Trump’s administration over Gaza and Ukraine; on the ...
Up until now, the prevailing coalition view of public servants was that there were simply too many of them. But yesterday the new Public Service Commissioner, handpicked by the Luxon Government, said it was not so much numbers but what they did and the value they produced that mattered. Sir ...
In a moment we explore the question: What is Andrew Bayly wanting to tell ACC, and will it involve enjoying a small wine tasting and then telling someone to fuck off? But first, for context, a broader one: What do we look for in a government?Imagine for a moment, you ...
As expected, Donald Trump just threw Ukraine under the bus, demanding that it accept Russia's illegal theft of land, while ruling out any future membership of NATO. Its a colossal betrayal, which effectively legitimises Russia's invasion, while laying the groundwork for the next one. But Trump is apparently fine with ...
A ballot for a single member's bill was held today, and the following bill was drawn: Employment Relations (Collective Agreements in Triangular Relationships) Amendment Bill (Adrian Rurawhe) The bill would extend union rights to employees in triangular relationships, where they are (nominally) employed by one party, but ...
This is a guest post by George Weeks, reviewing a book called ‘How to Fly a Horse’ by Kevin AshtonBook review: ‘How to Fly a Horse’ by Kevin Ashton (2015) – and what it means for Auckland. The title of this article might unnerve any Greater Auckland ...
This story was originally published by Capital & Main and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. Within just a week, the sheer devastation of the Los Angeles wildfires has pushed to the fore fundamental questions about the impact of the climate crisis that have been ...
In this world, it's just usYou know it's not the same as it wasSongwriters: Harry Edward Styles / Thomas Edward Percy Hull / Tyler Sam JohnsonYesterday, I received a lovely message from Caty, a reader of Nick’s Kōrero, that got me thinking. So I thought I’d share it with you, ...
In past times a person was considered “unserious” or “not a serious” person if they failed to grasp, behave and speak according to the solemnity of the context in which they were located. For example a serious person does not audibly pass gas at Church, or yell “gun” at a ...
Long stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, February 13 are:The coalition Government’s early 2024 ‘fiscal emergency’ freeze on funding, planning and building houses, schools, local roads and hospitals helped extend and deepen the economic and jobs recession through calendar ...
For obvious reasons, people feel uneasy when the right to be a citizen is sold off to wealthy foreigners. Even selling the right to residency seems a bit dubious, when so many migrants who are not millionaires get turned away or are made to jump through innumerable hoops – simply ...
A new season of White Lotus is nearly upon us: more murder mystery, more sumptuous surroundings, more rich people behaving badly.Once more we get to identify with the experience of the pampered tourist or perhaps the poorly paid help; there's something in White Lotus for all New Zealanders.And unlike the ...
In 2016, Aotearoa shockingly plunged to fourth place in the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index. Nine years later, and we're back there again: New Zealand has seen a further slip in its global ranking in the latest Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI). [...] In the latest CPI New Zealand's score ...
1. You’ve started ranking your politicians on how much they respect the rule of law2. You’ve stopped paying attention to those news publications3. You’ve developed a sudden interest in a particular period of history4. More and more people are sounding like your racist, conspiracist uncle.5. Someone just pulled a Nazi ...
Transforming New Zealand: Brian EastonBrian Easton will discuss the above topic at 2/57 Willis Street, Wellington at 5:30pm on Tuesday 26 February at 2/57 Willis Street, WellingtonThe sub-title to the above is "Why is the Left failing?" Brian Easton's analysis is based on his view that while the ...
Salvation Army’s State of the Nation 2025 report highlights falling living standards, the highest unemployment rates since the 1990s and half of all Pacific children going without food. There are reports of hundreds if not thousands of people are applying for the same jobs in the wake of last year’s ...
Mountain Tui is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Correction: On the article The Condundrum of David Seymour, Luke Malpass conducted joint reviews with Bryce Wilkinson, the architect of the Regulatory Standards Bill - not Bryce Edwards. The article ...
Tomorrow the council’s Transport, Resilience and Infrastructure Committee meet and agenda has a few interesting papers. Council’s Letter of Expectation to Auckland Transport Every year the council provide a Letter of Expectation to Auckland Transport which is part of the process for informing AT of the council’s priorities and ...
All around in my home townThey're trying to track me down, yeahThey say they want to bring me in guiltyFor the killing of a deputyFor the life of a deputySongwriter: Robert Nesta Marley.Support Nick’s Kōrero today with a 20% discount on a paid subscription to receive all my newsletters directly ...
Hi,I think all of us have probably experienced the power of music — that strange, transformative thing that gets under our skin and helps us experience this whole life thing with some kind of sanity.Listening and experiencing music has always been such a huge part of my life, and has ...
Business frustration over the stalled economy is growing, and only 34% of voters are confidentNicola Willis can deliver. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, February 12 are:Business frustration is growing about a ...
I have now lived long enough to see a cabinet minister go both barrels on their Prime Minister and not get sacked.It used to be that the PM would have a drawer full of resignations signed by ministers on the day of their appointment, ready for such an occasion. But ...
“The ACT Party can’t be bothered putting an MP on one of the Justice subcommittees hearing submissions on their own Treaty Principles Bill,” Labour Justice Spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
The Government’s newly announced funding for biodiversity and tourism of $30-million over three years is a small fraction of what is required for conservation in this country. ...
The Government's sudden cancellation of the tertiary education funding increase is a reckless move that risks widespread job losses and service reductions across New Zealand's universities. ...
National’s cuts to disability support funding and freezing of new residential placements has resulted in significant mental health decline for intellectually disabled people. ...
The hundreds of jobs lost needlessly as a result of the Kinleith Mill paper production closure will have a devastating impact on the Tokoroa community - something that could have easily been avoided. ...
Today Te Pāti Māori MP for Te Tai Tokerau, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, released her members bill that will see the return of tamariki and mokopuna Māori from state care back to te iwi Māori. This bill will establish an independent authority that asserts and protects the rights promised in He Whakaputanga ...
The Whangarei District Council being forced to fluoridate their local water supply is facing a despotic Soviet-era disgrace. This is not a matter of being pro-fluoride or anti-fluoride. It is a matter of what New Zealanders see and value as democracy in our country. Individual democratically elected Councillors are not ...
Nicola Willis’ latest supermarket announcement is painfully weak with no new ideas, no real plan, and no relief for Kiwis struggling with rising grocery costs. ...
Half of Pacific children sometimes going without food is just one of many heartbreaking lowlights in the Salvation Army’s annual State of the Nation report. ...
The Salvation Army’s State of the Nation report is a bleak indictment on the failure of Government to take steps to end poverty, with those on benefits, including their children, hit hardest. ...
New Zealand First has today introduced a Member’s Bill which would restore decision-making power to local communities regarding the fluoridation of drinking water. The ‘Fluoridation (Referendum) Legislation Bill’ seeks to repeal the Health (Fluoridation of Drinking Water) Amendment Act 2021 that granted centralised authority to the Direct General of Health ...
New Zealand First has introduced a Member’s Bill aimed at preventing banks from refusing their services to businesses because of the current “Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) Framework”. “This Bill ensures fairness and prevents ESG standards from perpetuating woke ideology in the banking sector being driven by unelected, globalist, climate ...
Erica Stanford has reached peak shortsightedness if today’s announcement is anything to go by, picking apart immigration settings piece by piece to the detriment of the New Zealand economy. ...
Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. The intention was to establish a colony with the cession of sovereignty to the Crown, ...
Te Whatu Ora Chief Executive Margie Apa leaving her job four months early is another symptom of this government’s failure to deliver healthcare for New Zealanders. ...
The Green Party is calling for the Prime Minister to show leadership and be unequivocal about Aotearoa New Zealand’s opposition to a proposal by the US President to remove Palestinians from Gaza. ...
The latest unemployment figures reveal that job losses are hitting Māori and Pacific people especially hard, with Māori unemployment reaching a staggering 9.7% for the December 2024 quarter and Pasifika unemployment reaching 10.5%. ...
Waitangi 2025: Waitangi Day must be community and not politically driven - Shane Jones Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. ...
Despite being confronted every day with people in genuine need being stopped from accessing emergency housing – National still won’t commit to building more public houses. ...
The Green Party says the Government is giving up on growing the country’s public housing stock, despite overwhelming evidence that we need more affordable houses to solve the housing crisis. ...
Before any thoughts of the New Year and what lies ahead could even be contemplated, New Zealand reeled with the tragedy of Senior Sergeant Lyn Fleming losing her life. For over 38 years she had faithfully served as a front-line Police officer. Working alongside her was Senior Sergeant Adam Ramsay ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson will return to politics at Waitangi on Monday the 3rd of February where she will hold a stand up with fellow co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick. ...
Te Pāti Māori is appalled by the government's blatant mishandling of the school lunch programme. David Seymour’s ‘cost-saving’ measures have left tamariki across Aotearoa with unidentifiable meals, causing distress and outrage among parents and communities alike. “What’s the difference between providing inedible food, and providing no food at all?” Said ...
The Government is doubling down on outdated and volatile fossil fuels, showing how shortsighted and destructive their policies are for working New Zealanders. ...
Green Party MP Steve Abel this morning joined Coromandel locals in Waihi to condemn new mining plans announced by Shane Jones in the pit of the town’s Australian-owned Gold mine. ...
The Government’s commitment to get New Zealand’s roads back on track is delivering strong results, with around 98 per cent of potholes on state highways repaired within 24 hours of identification every month since targets were introduced, Transport Minister Chris Bishop says. “Increasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is ...
The former Cadbury factory will be the site of the Inpatient Building for the new Dunedin Hospital and Health Minister Simeon Brown says actions have been taken to get the cost overruns under control. “Today I am giving the people of Dunedin certainty that we will build the new Dunedin ...
From today, Plunket in Whāngarei will be offering childhood immunisations – the first of up to 27 sites nationwide, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. The investment of $1 million into the pilot, announced in October 2024, was made possible due to the Government’s record $16.68 billion investment in health. It ...
New Zealand’s strong commitment to the rights of disabled people has continued with the response to an important United Nations report, Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston has announced. Of the 63 concluding observations of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD), 47 will be progressed ...
Resources Minister Shane Jones has launched New Zealand’s national Minerals Strategy and Critical Minerals List, documents that lay a strategic and enduring path for the mineral sector, with the aim of doubling exports to $3 billion by 2035. Mr Jones released the documents, which present the Coalition Government’s transformative vision ...
Firstly I want to thank OceanaGold for hosting our event today. Your operation at Waihi is impressive. I want to acknowledge local MP Scott Simpson, local government dignitaries, community stakeholders and all of you who have gathered here today. It’s a privilege to welcome you to the launch of the ...
Racing Minister, Winston Peters has announced the Government is preparing public consultation on GST policy proposals which would make the New Zealand racing industry more competitive. “The racing industry makes an important economic contribution. New Zealand thoroughbreds are in demand overseas as racehorses and for breeding. The domestic thoroughbred industry ...
Business confidence remains very high and shows the economy is on track to improve, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis says. “The latest ANZ Business Outlook survey, released yesterday, shows business confidence and expected own activity are ‘still both very high’.” The survey reports business confidence fell eight points to +54 ...
Enabling works have begun this week on an expanded radiology unit at Hawke’s Bay Fallen Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital which will double CT scanning capacity in Hawke’s Bay to ensure more locals can benefit from access to timely, quality healthcare, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. This investment of $29.3m in the ...
The Government has today announced New Zealand’s second international climate target under the Paris Agreement, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand will reduce emissions by 51 to 55 per cent compared to 2005 levels, by 2035. “We have worked hard to set a target that is both ambitious ...
Nine years of negotiations between the Crown and iwi of Taranaki have concluded following Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/the Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill passing its third reading in Parliament today, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “This Bill addresses the historical grievances endured by the eight iwi ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Karleen Gribble, Adjunct Professor, School of Nursing and Midwifery, Western Sydney University BaLL LunLa/Shutterstock Sleep is the holy grail for new parents. So no wonder many tired parents are looking for something to help their babies sleep. A TikTok trend claims ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ranjana Gupta, Senior Lecturer, Accounting Department, Auckland University of Technology Jirsak/Shutterstock The profit made on every breakfast bowl of weet-bix is tax exempt, giving Sanitarium Health Food Company, owned by the Seventh-day Adventist Church, an advantage over other breakfast food companies. ...
A closer look at some of the homegrown talent currently commanding television screens around the globe. The new season of The White Lotus hit our screens this week, and with it a familiar face in New Zealand actor Morgana O’Reilly. To secure a role in one of the world’s most ...
"This is a crisis of the Government’s own making and the unit is another sign of desperation," said PSA acting national secretary Fleur Fitzsimons. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Francesca Perugia, Senior Lecturer, School of Design and the Built Environment, Curtin University Australia’s housing crisis has created a push for fast-tracked construction. Federal, state and territory governments have set a target of 1.2 million new homes over five years. Increasing housing ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ash Watson, Scientia Fellow and Senior Lecturer, UNSW Sydney Shutterstock When we’re uncomfortable we say the “vibe is off”. When we’re having a good time we’re “vibing”. To assess the mood we do a “vibe check”. And when the atmosphere in ...
What’s up with the man from Epsom? The leader of the Act Party has been in plenty of headlines in the last two weeks, ranging from a controversial letter to police on behalf of constituent Philip Polkinghorne (written before David Seymour was a minister) to an attempt to drive ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elise Stephenson, Deputy Director, Global Institute for Women’s Leadership, Australian National University Newly published research has found clear evidence that openly lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, intersex, and queer+ (LGBTIQ+) Australian politicians were disproportionately targeted with personal abuse on social media at the ...
Gilmore Girls, Schitt’s Creek, even The Vampire Diaries – they’re all set in tight-knit neighbourhoods where everyone knows everyone. So what is it like to actually know your neighbours? My favourite television shows are set in tight-knit neighbourhoods where everyone knows everyone. Characters attend town meetings where they debate local ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Yanyan Hong, PhD Candidate in Communication and Media Studies, University of Adelaide IMDB On the surface, Ne Zha 2: The Sea’s Fury (2025), the sequel to the 2019 Chinese blockbuster Nezha: Birth of the Demon Child, is a high-octane, action-packed and ...
Wellington travellers say their buses are so hot they’re often forced to get off early and walk. Shanti Mathias explores the impact of non-functioning air conditioning on public transport. When Bella, a young professional living in Wellington, thinks about taking the bus, her first thought is “Ugh”. The bus might ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Annette Kroen, Research Fellow Planning and Transport, RMIT University The cleanup is underway in northern Queensland following the latest flooding catastrophe to hit the state. More than 7,000 insurance claims have already been lodged, most of them for inundated homes and other ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Subha Parida, Lecturer in Property, University of South Australia Carl Oberg/Shutterstock Houses and fire do not mix. The firestorm which hit Los Angeles in January destroyed nearly 2,000 buildings and forced 130,000 people to evacuate. The 2019–20 Australian megafires destroyed ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Bowman, Professor of Pyrogeography and Fire Science, University of Tasmania Tasmania has been burning for more than two weeks, with no end in sight. Almost 100,000 hectares of bushland in the northwest has burned to date. This includes the Tarkine rainforest ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Martin Loosemore, Professor of Construction Management, University of Technology Sydney This week, the Productivity Commission released its much-awaited report into productivity growth in Australia’s housing construction sector. It wasn’t a glowing appraisal. The commission found physical productivity – the total number ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Pascale Lubbe, Postdoctoral Research Fellow in Molecular Ecology, University of Otago Royal spoonbills are among several new species that have crossed the Tasman and naturalised in New Zealand. JJ Harrison/Wikimedia Commons, CC BY-SA When people arrived on the shores of Aotearoa ...
Stats NZ’s head is stepping down over the agency’s failure to safeguard census data, and more officials may soon be in the firing line, writes Catherine McGregor in today’s extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. An ‘absolutely unacceptable’ failure Stats NZ chief ...
Health NZ is under greater government scrutiny, with the new health minister setting up a unit he says will "drive greater accountability and performance". ...
Manurewa Marae acknowledges should have done better at handling completed census forms, following an inquiry into steps government agencies took to protect data. ...
Police failed to protect people from protesters at a high-profile rally and made unlawful arrests at another, the Independent Police Conduct Authority says. ...
Comment: Crypto exchange-traded funds (ETFs) are making it easier for people to invest in cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and Ethereum without having to handle digital wallets or private keys. These allow investors to buy and sell cryptocurrency through their regular brokerage accounts.This has opened the door for billions of dollars ...
Two long-awaited reports into alleged personal data misuse, centred on census collection and Covid-19 vaccination efforts at Manurewa Marae, were released yesterday. Here’s what you need to know.“Very sobering reading” was how public service commissioner Sir Brian Roche described his organisation’s long-awaited report into the alleged misuse of census ...
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It’ll be very interesting to see how the Herald runs the Dirty Politics story, as they appear to be deep in the mire.
Very much doubt they’ll be using the headline ‘Democracy under attack’ despite much more of a case for that banner than when they used it previously.
NZ citizens need better media than this rag.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11317000
bloody hell..!
..the herald has done a positive editorial on/about john minto..et al..
Aww is granny doting over a forgotten nephew, never mind she will be back to the randian rants in no time at all.
Granny didn’t need the slater with Armstrong, tawdry, Kerry etc but did so anyway as its all about helping the govt not actually reporting facts.
Thanks nicky hager ! Suck it up nz you have been schooled and treated with contempt.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11317000
Minto does not need belated puff pieces from the rag that has slagged him off for most of his adult life. John’s dad lived to 97, passing just recently, so if DNA has anything to do with it…
33 years ago this Sept 12 was the final Springbok tour test at Eden Park. John fought for social justice before that momentous day and ever since. Others even Red Squad leader Ross Muerant have recanted, but he has held the line. While not a party aligned marxist he has made it pretty clear where he stands politically.
He drew attention to the Pan African Congress when most lefties supported the more nationalist ANC (as evinced by reading the ANC Feedom Charter) and has not shied from pointing out the travails and class blunders of post apartheid South Africa.
Mana is a movement of the people, Internet Mana a strategic electoral alliance with a shelf life. I hope he does make it to parliament, the bourgeois parliament will still be there but nonetheless Minto will bring a perspective that is so needed to help spark up the revolutionary embers.
Soon after John Minto “joined” the Mana Party I watched an interview on Triangle TV about his decision (and his life) and he was less than totally convinced that Mana was right for him. He said something along the lines of, “…either it’ll work, or I’ve made the biggest mistake of my political career…”. Probably not those exact words, since he seemed to hold to “old” communist standards about what he can or can’t do in politics. Theoretically, “communists” don’t join political parties as such, their job isn’t to tell people what to think or do, but report what the people say they are at any given time. This is a long long way from what our political system thinks its job might be.
We need a Public Service Broadcaster, PSB as USA has, we have a voice of government and no voice of the people.
Another example of Joyce-Goebbels control of our hearts & minds by corrupt means.
We need urgently to get rid of these criminals.
PSB is pretty marginal in the US. Isn’t it subscription based?
Not subscription based.
Public donations only.
Donors who whose are credited over broadcaster network, they have foundations giving good backing though, who are not aligned.
Last night, Julie Anne Genter said that a Canadian report in 2011, showed funding for public service broadcasting in NZ was 2nd lowest level of 18 countries – the US was lowest.
She said in the US media environment was toxic – Faux News a joke, even CNN has gone for infotainment. She said public service broadcasting needs adequate funding.
The US is just not a good example of how public service broadcasting can make an impact on the media environment. The donations approach just doesn’t cut it.
The Aussie state funded public service broadcasting is a better model.
i agree..re aussie model..
..oh !..to have our own s.b.s/abc…!
..and the first thing to do is to take all that heritage programming back from sky…
..bring ‘heartland’ back to the heartland..
Broadcasting won’t make any difference if the people don’t wake from their apathetic slumber. At that point they start to actively seek out information rather than passively accept it.
That would be a major cultural shift for any group within NZ to achieve. From traditional tribal/feudal lines of command (of the last 1000 or so years, give or take a few notable exceptions) all the way out to nuclear family structure, most of it “threatened” and undermined. Going to bed and then waking up in a world like that… pretty intolerable sudden shock I’d say. No internet, no electricity probably – certainly in the beginning, supply would be compromised and unstable. Marx said it’d take four hundred years to arrive at his ideal, via natural evolution, from how he saw it 100 or so years ago. And his version isn’t even remotely the furthest left a people could go to assure “their own information”. In my ever-present opinion, “apathy” doesn’t entirely sum up the reasons people live in their self-constructed realities.
A public broadcasters job would be to help wake people up to what is happening in the country. The present commercial set up hides that in favour of ratings and cheaply imported shows.
Jail? Gaol? Prison? Which one will Collins serve time in if she, the Justice Minister, is found guilty of as aiding the defence?
2years? 5 years? Any ideas on how we can do a fund raiser for the Howard Reform League though betting on the sentence she gets?
Has Hooton asked iPredict to set up a book on Collins’ possible sentence?
Marcus Lush
“18 000 Hanover Finance victims.
Wonder how will they vote now?”
Yep this story is so bad at so many levels.
If I was to imagine as damaging a story as possible it would involve the elements of this story including the involvement of Hotchin and perhaps the involvement of a pedophile ring or the black power gang.
At that stage you can guarantee that National’s campaign was approaching peak cray cray …
You are nasty now Presland, you were previously were a gentleman , but thats the Standard for you
Maybe sell any $NZ you have, talk brave later
Why so sensitive, paul scott?
You should ask your main man John Key, he’s the currency speculator who has attacked his own country before.
and someone pointed out yesterday, that’s about 50,000 family and friends who lost half a billion dollars.
@yeshe: that was me on the number being 50,000. Though why anybody would vote for this corrupt mob now beats me.
I wonder if there are any interesting emails out there concerning the suspicious $1.6 billion South Canterbury bail out?
There are plenty of suspicious things about SCF and the handling of Mr. Hubbard’s case. If they come to light (ie. if the MSM finally stop actively refusing to expose the details) then all bets are off for our friend Mr Key 🙂 And English, and Power for that matter. From what I’ve read and heard it is a veritable powder keg.
And I wonder why Key promised to pay for Hubbards funeral with taxpayers money.As reported in the Herald shortly after Hubbard ‘s death.
Dimpost Comment 53 Victoria Adams put up a video by Paul Caruthers re SCF and some dodgy timing by govt
It is a 25 min listen.
http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/new-shit-has-come-to-light/#comments
Some key pts from memory
English and Key renewed the Govt guarantee the day after they got into power against treasury advise
The got Hubard to put a couple of his own valuable cmp into SCF – scale and helicopter line, which he did willingly.
Lotsa comments made that hubbard was fraudulent- thus reducing the co value!!
Day after the assets were transferred? they charged him with fraud
Power ‘illegally’ used an act to freeze the assets
Westpac go quite a lot from the Govt under the guarantee
Power moved to Westpac
Sold the a very valuable asset (Scales) to Keys nxt door neighbour for 44m
Later listed on stock market for 144m?
And when Hubbard died in the crash, he had a court case pending against the govt.
Apparently the autopsy reports and all the file re the the case are sealed!!!
This is some that I recall, and I can’t be sure about some of the detail.
But It is well worth a listen especially by those who might know more than me.
just listened to this not sure how authentic it is but once again raises some questions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9CE1a4pSeQ#t=1490
We need a transcript of the video to under the detail.
emails boring, mostly about farming, you know, how to make a living, wouldn’t interest you people
There is a bigger scandle possibly lurking behind the attacks on the SFO and the FMA. Many bankers, lawyers and their clients bought South Canterbury Finance Bonds at 70c which Bill English redeemed at $1.00 a month later.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10670247
“A private equity fund associated with rich-lister businessman George Kerr is to receive a $100 million taxpayer-funded payout from the Government in order to make the receivership of South Canterbury Finance run more smoothly.
But the Crown’s $1.6 billion payout to 35,000 depositors will include a $350 million payment to NZX-listed bondholders.
Mint Asset Management’s Shane Solly said it was outrageous that some investors had been able to buy the bonds at a discount last week only to have them paid out yesterday. “Those bonds were trading at quite deep discounts. Those people that paid 70c are [now getting a] dollar-something return.” NZ Herald 1st Sept 2010.
Roger Kerr is a mate of Simon Botherway, then head of the Financial Market Authority, whose resignation David Cunliffe demanded on the 21st September 2010. Botherway resigned the following March to head investments in ANZ Wealth. Botherway was no 2 to John Key at Bankers Trust. http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/09/21/mr-botherway-must-step-aside/
Huge amounts of Taxpayers money was doled out to people close to John Key and massive amounts of quick profits were made arising out of Government decisions and decisions of Botherway.
With the shocking revelatation of the past days and weeks about the proposensity of Key ‘s cabinet to use the powers of Government to aid friends there is a need for an enquiry into the management of John Key’s “blind” trust.
+1 – the very tip of the iceberg 🙂
And how many can be accounted for in the blind trusts of Key and Double Dipton English, and all their avaricious cabinet and mates ??
Filthy business.
Maybe under our new govt it can be investigated properly, without fear of retribution.
It’s really starting to sound like the last 6 years of this government need to be investigated for multiple counts of unethical and illegal behaviour by this government.
Yes, they have been a ‘tricky’ bunch in all
#teamtricky perhaps?
And now Act has this to say about their possible coalition partners:
And I bet that they’ll still be enthusiastic to get into government with both parties of them.
Conservative. centre right, thats how we vote
what was causing the comment-‘problem’..?
I heard the tip of an (wh)oar was found in the drive train.
heh..!
it was broken off the national rowers’ boat over the weekend ! 🙂
Key admitted under hard questioning from Guy Espiner that he received information from Slater about who visited Dotcom !
This shows Key is as corrupt as Collins !
After all the Denials!
Heard that tricle-this should be headlining the MSM.
Espiner had Key on the ropes on RNZ.
Go hard Espiner now is the time to show you deserve a role in any revamped RNZ.
Once again, this is why I think Guyon is a good interviewer. It seems a lot of people around here don’t like it when he puts the hard graft on politicians they support, though.
Haven’t seen anyone complaining about that. They’ve been complaining about the fact that he lets off the politicians that he likes.
It’s not the Hard graft I object to. It’s the patsy fluff questions he was bringing out for the Right. he’s only gone troppo on them in the last coupla weeks. So he knows on which side his bread’s buttered.
+ 1 to Lanth
Key is digging a deeper and deeper!
Hooton is changing his tune from yesterday!
He must have had a big tune up over night!
Hooton squealing like a pig spinning like a weasel!
Now shifting the blame to Eaglston!
Yes. Hooton seems to be protecting Ede – wants him to stay in place – and wants Eagleson to take the fall for him.
Hooton right in the loop, hearing about the email from Odgers to the PM’s office from a “staffer (low level)”… Odgers is ACT… Hooton has ACT sympathies… Maybe 1 + 1 = 3 but maybe not?
Yeah Hooton’s only out for Hooton. Unfortunately for him, he’s Donkey deep in this.
KEY-CORRUPT
This rhymes,
Are there any poets that can marry these two words as a jazzy
epitaph.
We should have a law to ban such individuals with ruthless hedge fund trading past, (or present) practices to be either in Government but most importantly our head of State! P.M.
Actually it doesn’t rhyme and anyway I prefer KEY-RUPT, as in “Key-rupt as a right-wing network”.
Key and his Cronies have found out to be phonies
Kathyn Ryan is a dickhead, talking to Nicky Hager on MR today she really is asleep behind the wheel, and has a lousy Journalistic integrity.
i think you mean susie ferguson..
..tho’ such criticisms of ryan are valid..
Suzie Ferguson, not Kathryn Ryan who doesn’t come on until Nine to Noon.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20147884/dirty-politics-author-says-key-needs-to-answer-allegations
Did you catch Guyon’s interview with the Liar in Chief? Have a listen cos it appears to me the Prime Minister’s Office, through its delegate, The Prime Minister, admitted Slater was his source for Peters and Norman have visited DotCom’s mansion?
Just after 7am this morning.
He didn’t actually admit it. But his manner of refusing to answer the direct question pretty much pointed to that.
I think he did toward the end… he may have said “yea but” or somethinglike that?
Karol he said he used information from Cameron Slater for political purposes which is am admission!
Key by admitting that is admitting to be deeply involved in this corruption!
Key can not have it both ways!
Hooton threw Key under the Bus from last Tuesday till Yesterday now Both Key and Hooton are lining up Eaglston to be the next scapegoat!
Yes I did hear that interview and Key’s slip/admission re the (alleged) only matter that he used Slater as a source – who visited KDC’s mansion.
Here is the link to Guyon’ s interview with Key for anyone who missed it. Note the ambiguous title of this segment “Labour Party wants Collins’ office sealed”. It starts with a very short section with Cunliffe – and then the Key interview takes up almost all the remainder starting at about 0.55 in.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20147869/labour-party-wants-collins'-office-sealed
I very much doubt that Slater was the only source for Key to know who visited KDC….
Wayne Tempero (KDC’s former bodyguard) has been communicating with Slater for months. It is extremely likely that Wayne was the ultimate source of the information, and since we know he has been talking to Slater…
Agreed re Tempero; but my comment was that I doubt that Slater was the only (underlined) source.
And something else that has popped into my mind once or twice was whether Tempero has played a ‘two way’ game re his contacts with Slater.
Opps’ so many deadhead so called Journo’s nowadays we are all getting confused out here.
who’s asleep at the keyboard disturbed?
That was how the PMs links to WO were first ‘discovered/admitted’, because ppl were asking how he got the information about who visited KDC, because there was speculation that he got the information from SIS/Police/GCSB, so Key came clean (or made up a story, who knows?) that WO was the source & Key spoke to WO regularly. WO replied something like ‘If the PM says i’m the source then I guess I am the source’.
Many roads of damnation lead to John Key, oops, the PM’s Office.
It is the cover up, always the cover up that gets the crooks!
What if Key suddenly decides to flee the country now? May be his passport should be confiscated!
No print another one!
So nice to wake up to a beautiful morning,then to here Numbnuts key wobbling all over the place on natradio.Should think he will fall.everyone keep the pressure on please.
Here is the audio of Key’s interview with Guyon Espiner this morning:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20147869
Monty Python
Sound Like Mupp-et
ShonKey Python
Found Corrup-et
One Good People
Bad enough
Two Good People
Out it snuff !
Its the Shonkey Pythons Flying Circus!
starring John Kleys minister of silly talks
Slater Spamsalot!
The parrots dead John Kleys no not its just not breathing right now!
Collins Orivida anthrax icecream anyone
ShonKey pythons Lying Circus!
+ 1 Good one
If you are still wondering why, over all the things about which there could be an enquiry, it’s this particular allegation against Collins?
The quote below shows the Prime Minister’s office has a glowing statement from Iain Rennie about how much Collins felt positively about Feeley. So chief witness? Head of State Services Commission, case closed. Nothing to see here at the end of the day and we need to be as comfortable with that as the Prime Minster (and his Orifice)
“Meanwhile, State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie said he has been contacted over the past 24 hours by the Prime Minister’s office about the matter.
Mr Rennie said he is extremely concerned by an allegation that a minister has associated with third parties to discuss influencing his assessment of a public service chief executive. If true, it would be entirely unacceptable.
But he said there is no evidence of that.
He said he told the Mr Key’s office that Ms Collins had a positive view of Mr Feeley’s performance throughout her time as minister responsible for the SFO.”
Too early surely for the State Services Commissioner to be ‘opining’ as to substance here…….not that the incumbent should ever ‘opine’ simpliciter. Lest the public ‘opine’ that its servant the State Services Commissioner is of a particular predisposition.
Of course, as peter’s says but you don’t think Key would have ordered this enquiry unless he thought the deck was stacked?
What Judith Collins told Rennie about her views on Feeley and what she did publicly in her role as Justice Minister does not mean that she held the same views of Feeley privately!! Every word she says is suspect now!
I am referring to evidence and the weight given to it. Rennie, will be regarded as a witness of some weight, i imagine.
If there are more emails and they include collins that is different but not at the moment.
What an idiot this Rennie guy is, trying to close the case even before the inquiry starts!
Oh and remember when the smearing of Hager was that DotCom was the Hacker? The revelation of the Hacker to a major news outlet and it turns out it wasn’t DotCom. Apologies anyone?
Has the hacker been identified publicly?
No BUT surely whoever is dealing with him(her) knows it is NOT KimDotCom?
Not if they haven’t identified themselves.
Well, I am probably being naive but surely before running any stories using that material, they would have spoken or met with the “Hacker” and verified for themselves the identiy. I can’t believe the legal department wouldn’t demand that?
Tracey .. the Herald explained they spent up to a week verifying the person delivering them emails as the original hacker, including to the satisfaction of the legals.
They did not outline the exact details, but it was clear they never had a face to face meeting.
And that verificiation might not have included real life identification.
exactly, they do not have Rawshark’s identity, but they have verified it is Rawshark they are dealing with.
Or they might have Rawshark’s real life ID and we just don’t know 😉 I didn’t read the Herald article though.
Morning all !
1. Nicky Hager seemed genuinely shocked when Kim Dotcom was suggested as our friend, the hacker.
2. Kim has denied it, and so far in his NZ history, he has not been shown to have lied a single time.
3. I think it’s a red herring … and just once last week, I heard Nicky finally I heard referring to ‘him’ ( at his public meeting).
Cherchez la femme ? Cherchez l’homme ? No matter now so long as the material keeps on coming.
This whole business reminds me of Jeffrey Archer’s book, Not a Penny More, Not a Penny Less. I am not a fan of Archer and his dealings, but the book is brilliant and to be recommended. ( Must add I read it before his great downfall, else I would not have ever bothered.)
Early in his life Archer and some friends were cunningly conned out of substantial sums of money. The book is the story of their utu .. and it is very, very clever. As the title explains, they wished only to seize back exactly the amount stolen from them.
Our hacker has explained that when her/his personal motive is understood, it will lead directly to her/him, and only her/him.
So this justice is being eked line by line; leaking drops which became puddles which are becoming lakes which will become a waterfall — oh, careful now, there’s a rowing scull with some men in blue getting swamped by the current …. if you get my drift !
Bring it on Rawshark, please. I admire you immensely and feel deeply indebted to you.
Apparently at the Christchurch WORD Festival, Hager referred to the hacker as “him”. Dom Post report on it here.
And THIS:
I find it hard to imagine KDC would have met Hager in public parks and not been noticed.
Apparently at the Christchurch WORD Festival, Hager referred to the hacker as “him”. Dom Post report on it here.
And THIS:
I find it hard to imagine KDC would have met Hager in public parks and not been noticed.
“I find it hard to imagine KDC would have met Hager in public parks and not been noticed.”
Almost certain Karol! At the very least the SIS would have released their photographs of the meetings to Cameron Slater for immediate publication !
Whaledump has been back on Twitter in the last 24 hours – supposedly having returned from holiday in Vanuatu (Tui ad?).
Yesterday, he/she denied that they were the source of the email leading to Collins’ downfall.
This morning (an hour ago) , again reiterating “Thank you for your patience. As I have said, this isn’t all about party politics.”
I like Whaledump’s dry sense of humour evident in some tweets. Whoever it is, they are very astute, write well and know how to play things out. (Also quick to take responsibility when the first dump included private information that should have been redacted as not being in the public interest.)
Somehow, the style* has a certain familiarity about it and I would not be surprised if it is someone we will recognise if whaledump’s ID comes out.
* But the style is different to KDC’s, IMO.
I particularly liked the quip about being back and had anything happened while they were away
just love and respect the dry and elegant humour, sparse as it is.
Just occurred to me that Rawshark had been planning a promised release over the weekend, but possibly held back as the Odgers email filled the news bringing about Collins fall. Rawshark has repeated that email release was nothing to do with whaledump.
Maybe today ? The facebook comms of Slater and Collins were suggested ….
The hacker (calling themselves “Rawshark”) is in direct communication with both The Herald and Fairfax. Neither has said that the hacker is KDC, and I suspect they probably would have if that were the case. Not sure if either of them has ruled it out either, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they had (since it is of course, not KDC, much as Key and Slater might like it to be).
Meanwhile – exactly 100 years later – Europe is on the brink of chaos again.
Only this time, through an utmost fear of the devastating consequences, there will be changes in the world order.
That’s an improvement though, yeah? No?
If we stop the comparative historical clock somewhere around 1900, moving forward from there, then “the people of Europe” (gross generalisation lol) are in no way a slave to a psychic contagion that would have them line up across tiny patches of no man’s land and machine gun each other to death for Father/Motherland, the King/Queen, the identity of their region, or colonial interests, among other motivations.
True – but they might happily sit in deep bunkers pressing buttons and wiggling joysticks of death.
History does not so much repeat – as rhyme.
No more government by the corrupt for the corrupt.
NZ needs to rediscover its soul after six years of Key-led natzism.
100%++++++++ Cognito.
We believe the global elite is causing all this degradation of our world “so called order”.
The capitalistic system is failing and these Bilderberg NAZI regenerated agenda plotters have invited Key to their 2011 annual conference so he is in it Don-key deep.
Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported
//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
( We have the full attendance list.)
Why didn’t PM tell NZ he was into Bilderberg?
List of Bilderberg participants 4
New Zealand
• John Key (2011-2012), Prime Minister of New Zealand
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bilderberg
No Bilderberg meeting agenda has ever been made public. “It is the epitome of low-profile dark ops, a shadow government hidden in a doorway.” According to critics and close observers, it’s agenda is to weaken all world leadership but their own. It is also, according to a U.S. law called the Logan Act, [15] illegal:
“No more government by the corrupt for the corrupt.”
Excellent line!
Hooton twice yesterday on Q&A said the emails re Collins he was told about last Wednesday were much worse than what was released — much worse, he repeated.
This morning on DimPost ( link on rt hand side of this page)
“The allegation that some insiders – most prominently Matthew Hooton – are putting around is that as-yet-unreleased documents show Collins passing on information about the prosecution to Slater, who then passed it onto Hotchin’s defense team.”
I am going to have to buy a popcorn maker at this rate …
Hooton on MR this morning repeated that statement and said he suspected it was a case of chinese whispers – he thinks that the email that was released was “the” email, just that its contents weren’t as bad as had been rumoured.
So he was shooting from the lip about stuff he knew nothing of for sure?
Surely NOT?
😀
Chinese whispers? Probably not the most appropriate ethnic expression to use at the moment Mr Hooton .
I think he would prefer that to “I relied on unsubstantiated rumours and freely passed them on, including to the media.”
Hootons Chinese whispers would be Close friend and Con-fidant!
Cathy Odgers from Hong Kong!
This Machiavellian Hoodwinker Hooton’s plotting to seal off John Key from his self made scandal is coming unstuck has Eagleston got the balls to stand up to Key or is he going to be the next Oliver North!
Odgers Slater Banks Collins Hotchin Orividas Liu Garrick Graham Farrer Ede Eaglseton Lusk Berend de Boer Joyce ” all Keys the PMs Henchmen ”
Key is holding on by a very thin rope that’s constructed by lies and hair thin alibi’s
I was out of the country BS his office would be in touch all that time its amazing how he is in touch making sure his photo’s playing golf with Obama are instant news but the running of the country can be left to a few office staff!
Key who is everywhere has to fill in for ministers muckups suddenly has another BrainFade but can remember every mistake Helen Clarks govt did when he shifts the blame!
What is the less racist equivalent? Would prefer it.
You could dally with the truth…
I relied on unsubstantiated rumours and freely passed them on, including to the media without caring if it was true or not
‘gossip’ or ‘grapevine’ or ‘scuttlebutt’, but missing the same connotations, but probably acceptable in the context you’re using it.
Machiavellian Henchman.
Clutching at straws now!
You are close friends with Cathy Odgers ACT longtime funder and board member or are you having a Brain Fade!
Thanks for clearing up the truth about the level contact between Slater and Key.
all of this going on, and this is what you choose to post about ?? seriously, matthew. don’t you have some pants to mend from sitting on the fence ?
There’s quite a few but probably less well-known:
“The game is also known as broken telephone, operator, grapevine, whisper down the lane, gossip, don’t drink the milk, secret message, the messenger game and pass the message.“
also known sometimes as professional Public Relations.
🙂
Can’t argue with that.
You might like to check out Whaledump’s Twitter, MH. He has two message re you and what you have been saying, posted in the last 15 minutes.
Matthew ? You’re famous. Whaledump has just twice tweeted about you !
Whaledump @whaledump · 25m
There are no rumours. @MatthewHootonNZ made them up to ratfuck Judith Collins. And those reporting his rumours are helping him.
Whaledump @whaledump · 26m
Have you learnt nothing from #DirtyPolitics? @MatthewHootonNZ has no idea what I plan to do. How could he?
Mathew to be more Cathay Pacific Odgers is the source of your whisper on Wednesday !
nb. Matthew … in the interest of accuracy, which we all strive for, should be either “a less racist” equivalent, or “the least racist” equivalent. you are all about accuracy after all ?
Is Cathy Odgers still employed by the Jeeves Group? Her profile has been taken down from its website. Give us the low-down, Mr Well-Connected, will you?
chris .. hope you are not addressing me that way ?
Gone — it was in Herald a few days back … announced by her boss. Was on here too i think .. search Jeeves and it shd come up.
“By mutual consent”, apparently.
No, am asking Hooton because he’s the one person who knows everyone and everything. Didn’t see the announcement. So now that’s Williams and Odgers who’ve lost employment since all of this. Just a pity RNZ and TVNZ still think Hooton’s a credible “commentator”. Beggars belief, in fact.
It always did beggar belief imho.
good old-fashioned kiwi-slagging to replace ‘chinese whispers’…?
..’gossip’..?
In looking at the picture of the computer screen with the email on it, it is clear that the email carried on beyond the bottom of the screen.
Which picture are you referring to? Link would be helpful.
It’s on this post.
I remember reading that it was a photo of a PC screen (can’t recall exactly where).
@puddleglum — SST on Sunday ? the so-called Odgers’ email .. it did appear to have an unseen second page ..
#whaledump says: There are no rumours. @MatthewHootonNZ made them up to ratfuck Judith Collins. And those reporting his rumours are helping him.
Hooton’s statements cannot be trusted (well duh!).
Armstrong’s Herald piece today: but look at the comments!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11317065
What a mind blowing and historical weekend for NZ politics. After all these years the spiders web of corruption has been dusted down from the darkest attic corner of our government and Mummy spider has scuttled away.
Am verrrrryyyy interested to see how the first Ohariu candidates meeting will play out tonight.
Mr Dunne, can you still continue to defend this corrupt government you so easily and weasily support?
Rosie- ‘easily and weasily’ That’s good. Very apt.
Good luck tonight –look forward to hearing about how he wriggles now in what is going on.
Dunne and Dusted !
Maybe put it to him in the context of his family platfrom.
What SHOULD parents say to their children Mr Dunne? leaders don’t have to be accountable til they choose to be?
OR
Mr Key says he has had to fire, reprimand and accept resignations from 8 Ministers for poor behaviour. We know you cannot control the appalling conduct of this Government, it’s staffers and many of its Ministers, because it happened while you were part of this Government, how can you be a buttress against it?
You say dirty politics isn’t important, policy is, but the tactics coming to light completely undermine integrity and trust in those very policies
He was one of the Ministers, wasn’t he ?
Question: As a ‘willing seller’, do you feel you got your money’s worth, considering the sums of money and favours we now know were available at the time ?
VERY good yeshe
He was outside cabinet wasn’t he?
I think so ..
Party Leader ( very big deal :grin:)
Minister of Internal Affairs
Associate Minister of Conservation
Associate Minister of Health
Good points yeshe and Tracey. I would sincerely like to ask him a question (and it would be long the lines of ‘willing seller’ ala yeshe) but I usually get an attack of the nerves speaking publicly. If I can’t I hope someone else does.
Himself and the Nat candidate, Brett Hudson, can’t ignore what has happened. If they do, they would be doing a disservice to their audience. Never mind the disservice done to the NZ people as a result of the corrupt behaviour of our leaders and representatives.
you probably know this, but it’s a good idea is to have your question(s) written for yourself in advance. breathe deeply and slowly .. and know many of us are standing there with you ! Go Rosie !
( I survived asking questions to Rob Muldoon .. so Dunne is an easy target, and you are a brave and capable woman !)
Well you’re braver than me if you once confronted Muldoon!
Yes, I would write my question down, so as not to get tripped up by my memory under stress 🙂
The problem is, there are too many questions to ask Dunne. I would like to know “Have you received money from tobacco companies as alleged in Dirty Politics and if so, how much and did this influence your voting decisions?”
One issue of many has been Dunne’s u turn on his support for an cap on interest rates that loan sharks charge. He had planned to vote for Carol Beaumont’s bill that contained this provision, supported it at select committee phase but then voted against it later. He had even had an employee to research on the topic in the beginning and was right behind it. There was an article about it “Interest rate cap campaigner riled” centring on the disappointment of Dunne’s former employee who had done all the research, but that article has been pulled from the kapi mana newspaper site on line, so isn’t available to link.
I’m sure he will do his best to distance himself from the scandals of late but he really is little better than they with the ease with which he can make life easier for himself by supporting such a shoneky govt.
You need to frame your question so it impossible for him not to implicate himself.
For example, I’m not suggesting you ask the ‘willing seller’ question I posed above, but can you see there is no possible answer he can give that gives him an escape route ?
And if you can elicit some humour from the crowd, he will lose points.
I have to go out now, but will be back in a few hours .. and there will be others here who would help if you need it, I’m sure.
Ideas only ..
Mr Dunne, if I vote for you, am I voting for you to be a ‘willing seller’ on any issue, even if it contradicts your promises today ?
Mr Dunne — when you called yourself a ‘willing seller’, can you describe exactly what you meant and what it means for us now for your election promises ?
(Fwiw, I think the ‘willing seller’ line is one that will travel with him forever .. maybe you can frame it into the question you want answered re cap rates ..)
Back later and good luck !
Thanks yeshe. I know I’m going to get that thing I do where my voice disappears when it’s needed most, I really do have a phobia about speaking in public. I don’t think I’m going to be asking anything. Quite happy to write letters, make and put up our billboards in public spaces, leaflet the neighbourhood and generally agitate but If Dunne gets thrown the curly questions, they will be coming from someone else.
I hope that happens because the candidates meetings have been so poorly advertised I wonder if there will even be anyone there tonight.
(Yes, ‘willing seller’ has become his moniker. We’ve used that term in our election billboard campaign. A second board has been stolen btw!)
I’m off now too, won’t be back till tomorrow. Thanks for your suggestions and advice 🙂
If you had any doubt that newspapers and Media are in the business of business and not the business of investigating and educating
” APN News & Media has told the stock exchange it is condsidering ”strategic options” for its NZ publishing assets.
The company has appointed Grant Samuel to assist in the process, with an IPO and NZX listing of APN New Zealand being one option.
APN’s NZ print, radio and digital assets include The New Zealand Herald, Newstalk ZB, ZM and GrabOne. “
clever observation by “Rex” commenting on Tracy Watkin’s opinion piece this morning
“if the National Party was so sure its policy was going to win it elections they wouldn’t have been running around organising right wing smear campaigns, would they?”
Lost track of the timeline… has RNZ asked Hooton yet about his involvement in the attack on Feeley? Ryan made a big deal before of asking Hooton about his personal feelings about the PM’s office and how he had been treated by them, but didn’t get round to asking him about his active involvement in dp as opposed to him being a victim of dp.
David Parker on Q and A yesterday
” The Minister of Justice asserted to be undermining one of the arms of justice. This is very serious. The Prime Minister’s office having been involved in earlier abuses of the Official Information Act. The Prime Minister misrepresenting advice from the Cabinet Office, that he said cleared Judith Collins when she was tied up in that Oravida business where she had a plain conflict of interest in China. This goes to the heart of government. I’m sure this never happened when Bill English was in charge. This is about ethics not rules”
Something interesting I note, the ipredict powered Live Parliament Projection shows National losing seats in the house hand over fist (down to 42.9% from approx 47% before the weekend.)
So has there been any poll with Labour above 30 or National below 45 since this storm in a tea cup started?
You read the polls and let the adults discuss ways to rid governments of corruption.
That would be a no then. Speaking of adults:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10443907/Chinese-ministers-mystery-visit
where Labour MP Trevor Mallard said New Zealand was getting a reputation for letting in “fat, rich lazy, unintelligent Chinese students”.
Vote positive 😉
I thought you didnt care about morality or ethics and treating people with respect?
The ends justifies the means 🙂
Using emoticons doesn’t mean you’re not being a jerk.
It just means that the “smiling assassin” is getting support from the “smiling ass”.
At least this time puckish rogue is not linking to the blog of the person who broke the Truth like he usually does. Is this progress?
Was that the same tea cup that Lange Key and Banks drank from!
Idiot.
He said a Chinese education minister had told him ‘‘that we were getting a reputation for attracting fat, rich lazy, unintelligent Chinese students and if that sort of reputation continues … there is a danger that if we don’t get it right again our reputation will go backwards.’’
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10440516/Craig-takes-aim-at-Peters
Worse than an idiot- a liar through a false accreditation of another man’s words to Mallard.
I thought any intelligent person would have worked out that the polls have become part of the propagandist landscape. But then again, it’s PR – who has dogma seeping from their pores, intelligence is the last thing, in the mind.
Doesn’t matter. Even if National win the election, they have been mortally wounded.
After all, Nixon won the first post Watergate election.
In some respects, it would be better for National if they lost the election.
+1 Tom.
Imagine the scenario where Winnie backs Key (which I don’t think he will) only for Key, Collins and friends to be found guilty of corruption or similar at the enquiry being set up that will take place after the election.
He would have to pull his support for the government=new election.
Go look at the right wing dominated ipredict market
Yep, All you need is the money honey and those IPredict polls are are well and truly skewed.
So it is interesting that National dropped about 5-6% over the course of the weekend on that market – shows how much the rich go-getters believe their dear leader
That is interesting. There must be an element of nat voters who are really turned off by the behaviour of their party and government.
Since Dirty Politics was published and all the you know what has hit the fan I’ve often thought about that group of nat voters who do have some standards and expect some integrity from their party, that old idea of playing fair being at the core of their world view. These would be the trad nat voters, not the new breed of anything goes as long as you get what you want and at whatever price necessary type, of which group type I suspect the two fag lobbyist candidates come from.
(What kind of feedback would the Party be receiving from it’s most loyal members, as an aside?)
If we haven’t been so dulled down and happily bloated on our consumerist lifestyle and we still have a national sense of of playing fair hidden beneath the pile of distractions is it possible that the government will be voted out by a collective expression of disgust?
Even if the most excellent policies being put forward by the Parties of the Left miss the average voter’s radar in the fall out of Slatergate, at least voters have their conscience to guide them.
What we know:
Collins is at least morally corrupt. She was also the minister responsible for the SFO at the time.
Mark Hotckin was using his wealth to avoid a criminal prosecution by The SFO and FMA. As part of this effort he was funding a smear campaign and is, therefore, also at least morally corrupt. It stretches credibility that was this was the sum total of his effort to avoid prosecution.
Bruce Sheppard (Shareholders Association founder and FMA member) was sued by Hotchin for calling him a crook.
The questions that now need to be answered:
Why were the criminal charges against Hotckin dropped?
Was there political input into this decision and if so by whom?
Did Hotckin make any payments to others involved in the decision making or to the National Party around that time (upfront or back-door)?
– Follow the money.
I’m also curious if Hotchin’s has acted illegally with the smear campaign (I assume so), and whether Slater and Odgers are also open to criminal prosecution. Tracey, any thoughts or seen any opinion on this?
I was never in criminal law. But so far there is nothing in the public domain from Hotchin himself.
Hmm … this is starting to smell bad.
Dirty Politics contaminating financial market regulation will require further inquiry into Dirty Financial Enforcement.
Surely all of this can only enhance the civil case brought against him/them set down for next year.
And you refer to Hotchin’s wealth ? In fact, ill-gotten gains by stealing from the 17,000 shareholders he bankrupted. Watch this space.
(And I wonder how Alliance Finance feels now ? Maybe a PR campaign seduced them into their stupidity ?)
Collins – Pullar’s information going public
Collins – Pleasants name going public
Collins – Oravida
NONE of that is myth
NZ now feels like some bad recreation of the cultural revolution. A perpetual one at that.
John Key the happy leader, telling kiwis what to think, and purging all who oppose him, by any means necessary.
People being watched, denouncements, a lying media following the party line and you can just guess that the gang of four (Slatter, Collins, Farrir and Hooton) are watching us all with interest.
Please note:
*No Maoists were hurt in the creation of this comment.*
John Key the happy leader, telling kiwis what to think, and purging all who oppose him, by any means necessary.
We do not need JK to tell us what we should be thinking.
We can think for ourselves, thank you.
Remember this from the days when the nats were ignoring DoctCom’s past because he was a poster boy for their new policy?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10668580
Until he became inconvenient!
And what’s with Key’s description of NZ “It’s like England without the attitude”? What the?
Didn’t realise we were still “Little Britain”
It’s all fun and games until someone loses
an eyea buck.The business community has, until now, been watching the Dirty Politics scandals play out with bemusement, some disappointment and a certain degree of detachment.
But the latest accusations are deeply concerning for those involved in running New Zealand’s capital markets – and covering them.
The implication of a concerted campaign to undermine regulators like the Serious Fraud Office and the Financial Markets Authority shifts focus right to the integrity of the financial system.
Any possibility of links to a senior Government minister – it is important to note, she has denied this – is jaw-dropping.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11317033
Feeley fighting back .. fantastic !!
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/former-sfo-boss-calls-police-probe-alleged-plot-6068662
http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Adam-Feeley-former-Serious-Fraud-Office-head-speaks-with-Sean-Plunket-in-light-of-bloggers-email/tabid/506/articleID/53667/Default.aspx
Puckish Rouge,
What do you know about Bilderberg?
They run black ops designed to destabilising Governments?
Was it on The X-files?
Dears gods, 2 staff members shot in a
WanganuiAshburton WINZ office. What sort of society have we become?need for a massive change.
Cue Law and Order lecture
Rather than worrying about a “Law and Order” lecture, Tracey, it might be a good time to offer sympathy for the dead WINZ workers and their parners, children and families instead.
Thanks for the lecture Blue.
Yes, that is sad to hear. (Unsure if it has been confirmed yet)
Desperation on all sides of the equation.
Am sorry for the families involved.
Yes. Very sad for friends and families of the victims.
WINZ front line workers should not be the targets for whatever gripes or unhappiness the shooter is dealing with.
“WINZ front line workers should not be the targets for whatever gripes or unhappiness the shooter is dealing with.”
Sorry Karol, but while I think the impact on the victims and their families is horrific and beyond imagining, I am unwilling for the probable extreme suffering of the shooter to be reduced to gripes or unhappiness. We have no way of knowing yet why he chose to do what he did, whether he was callous or out of his wits with desperation. But amongst many other reactions I am having today, I am wondering how many lives are the cost of the suffering of a whole class of people.
I don’t think I have posited any reasons or motives. Front line WINZ people are not the powerful shapers of society, or the root causes of suffering of a whole class of people.
I also was thinking we live in a culture that often glorifies physical violence as a solution to problems and a means to exert power, while also treating it as entertainment.
I doubt that anyone who takes a shotgun into WINZ and uses it, is ‘dealing with gripes and unhappiness’. I’m asking you to not minimise the suffering there.
Some front line WINZ staff are hugely part of the problem. It’s possibly too hard to discuss this today without that being taken as victim blaming, and I don’t mean it as a comment on the Ashburton killings (I have no idea what that’s about), but it seems important to name the complexities of the tragedy.
I agree with your comment about the glorification of violence and its relationship to entertainment. I’m thinking about mass shootings and their coverage too, and how we do it in NZ.
Well, I was actually trying to steer away from easy explanations re- the individuals involved. My main first point to start with is that we are all implicated, by way of the kind of society we’ve become.
PSA supporting WINZ workers.
Yes, confirmed two dead, both WINZ workers
Well said blue leopard. What a shocking thing to hear on the news today. Unbelievably sad.
Much love to the families of the workers killed, their friends and all staff of WINZ who have lost their work mates in such a frightening and traumatic way.
What a gem you are Mike,
Bilderberg group secret society planned by NAZI’s in 1943.
John Key as NZ Prime Minister of NZ attended this secretive NAZI founded powerful industrial lobbyist group and kept it from NZ Citizens.
Key obviously learned all about Black ops while secretly attending that 2011-12 controversial Bilderberg secret Global elite group, who want to control the entire globe.
They are known to operate a secret shadowy black ops to damage any opposition to their agenda’s.
Here’s what they say about this group John Key was reported to have meet with and attended a very secretive annual Bilderberg conference.
Why didn’t PM tell NZ he was into Bilderberg?
List of Bilderberg participants 4
New Zealand
• John Key (2011-2012), Prime Minister of New Zealand
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bilderberg
No Bilderberg meeting agenda has ever been made public. “It is the epitome of low-profile dark ops, a shadow government hidden in a doorway.” According to critics and close observers, it’s agenda is to weaken all world leadership but their own. It is also, according to a U.S. law called the Logan Act, [15] illegal:
[lprent: sigh. Move it to OpenMike. I suspect this is another one of the strange conspiracy theories full of assertions rather than anything checkable.
Don’t plop this kind of assertion junk on posts outside of OpenMike or I’m liable to reduce my workload the easy (for me) way. ]
lodge an OIA and ask where Key was on those dates. shd be black fun !
and if indeed he was travelling, another OIA to find out how it was paid for.
and from wnhat I have learned over the past few days, word to OIA very specifically .. someone here with experience might be willing to help. Good luck.
Quote from that Wiki link from Prince Bernhard of Holland outlining their aims:
“Here comes our greatest difficulty. For the governments of the free nations are elected by the people, and if they do something the people don’t like they are thrown out. It is difficult to reeducate the people who have been brought up on nationalism to the idea of relinquishing part of their sovereignty to a supernational body…”
to Disturbed – where is the link that shows John Key attended the Bilderberg 2011-12
Global conference, please ?
I can’t find it under the general Wikipedia description.
Hi Jenk it comes under the following;
If you have trouble I can send the printout of all participant’s also. Got an email?
Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported
//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
Article Sources and Contributors 17
Article Sources and Contributors
List of Bilderberg participants Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=490249815 Contributors: 336, 9258fahsflkh917fas, Abatrour, Adam angel82, AfricanFacts,
AgnosticPreachersKid, Alansohn, Albnd, Andrew Gray, Andyjsmith, Angrysockhop, Ash, Avicennasis, Axiome2, Bearcat, Beardo, Bensin, Binksternet, Biruitorul, Boberger, Bobrayner, Bofs,
Bretddog, BrightBlackHeaven, Britcom, Brownturkey, Bunnyhop11, Butcer, C mon, Canaryarmy, Cavrdg, Cbnowhere, Cenarium, Cff12345, Cgingold, Chendy, ClamDip, Closedmouth,
CloudNine, Colonies Chris, Crosbiesmith, D6, Damian Thorne, Danrayson, Decameron74, Deconstructhis, Discospinster, Doom-chronicle, Dougweller, Download, Dreadstar, Dryke, Duran,
DéRahier, Egrian, Elandy2009, Elassint, Emilfarb, Epbr123, Ergative rlt, Falcon8765, Farmanesh, FinalRapture, Fluri, Foglietta7200, Foofees, ForeverRedAce, Fæ, Gareth E Kegg, GeneralBelly,
Glane23, Globe20, Gonzooon, Graham87, Greenwallpaper, GregorB, Griffin147, Ground Zero, Gruznov, Handicapper, Heathencourt, Helpertoday42, Hierarchypedia, Hipocrite, Hodeken,
Hoodster, Indefatigable, IoannesM, Is Mise, Itemirus, J.delanoy, J00tel, Jayzel68, Jeffums124, Jetinhouston, Jim Yar, Jreferee, Julle, Kaaveh Ahangar, Kewee1, Klimov, Koavf, Kristoffer Åsheim
Johansen, KudzuVine, Kwi, Lars Washington, Liamrhodes, Lihaas, Lord Chao, Lord Voldemort, Lordmetroid, Lozeldafan, Luckyboy1965, Lymona, M. Frederick, MBarryKanter, MCB, ML,
Mac5811, Mainenwo, Marshall, Materialscientist, Matilda, Matt Deres, Mbair, Meta.thomas, Michellecrisp, Michig, Mike R, Mike-Kerkhoven, MikeVitale, MissBaByG, Mlaffs, Moez, Moppf,
Morton devonshire, Mrh30, NJA, Neutrality, Nick Dillinger, Niclas1984, Nunamiut, OllieFury, P.o.l.o., Patchen, PatrikR, Peace Makes Plenty, PedeP, Pedrovaz, Pegship, Pete.Hurd, Peter 2009,
PigFlu Oink, Plorp, Politis, Popo24975, Pseudoanonymous, QuantumOne, QueenofBattle, Rastko Pocesta, Rdeiriar, Rebecca jones, Rebroad, Redvers, Registrarmike, Rjwilmsi, Robert Dain,
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License
Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported
//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
Try this link Jenk it works for me
John Key PM NZ attended 2011. Infamous Bilderberg Black ops meeting of most powerful global secret group power base.
Why did John Key keep this from NZ citizens as Bilderberg wants to rule world.
http://twochurchesonly.com/supmat/03/
most_influential/bilderberg_group/
list_of_bilderberg_attendees.pdf
http://twochurchesonly.com/supmat/03/most_influential/bilderberg_group/list_of_bilderberg_attendees.pdf
If it is a secret how do you know Key was there.
WINZ offices closed in Christchurch and Timaru because there has been a gun murder in the office in Ashburton. Why not put security on these offices rather than close them and cause more grief to needy people in these other places? NZ is in dire straits, and the authorities are expected to do their job to help, not lock down large areas because they are upset. Large numbers of needy people are upset the majority of their day.
Since the Labour Party decided to close down helping institutions and treat people in the community (possibly in a shoebox in the middle of the road) it has increased the number of people at risk in the community and not able to access help for their poor stressed disoriented brains. All because of an ideology that has produced a fairy tale of a better way, (and more cheaply everyone hoped). But the real tale was that community treatment was better only if a lot of extra money was spent on providing facilities and support and stimulating activities.
But doing things thoroughly and effectively is not the present NZ government way. So many criminals in jail or out are mentally disturbed and their unbalanced behaviours increase the breakdown in a once civilised society. And figures show large numbers in prison are mentally out of it, and unable to get help. A mean, broken society Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble and Caygill, Ruth Richardson, Jenny Shipley and other self-centred fat cats have left us with.
I noticed when talking to Kathryn Ryan about the work of the SFO which seems to have been rorted by supposedly responsible officials, and referring to Mark Hotchins, who is a a fine example of a s-c fat cat, a previous SFO CEO said nothing reported about Hotchins would surprise him.
I would imagine the offices are closed because the workers are probably traumatised and the police are probably investigating what happened.
The shooter is still at large, so WINZ offices in the area would be considered a possible target.
Well being that shots have been heard at the Ashburton river (thanks radio) I’d guessing they’ll find him pretty soon but yeah thats another good reason to not open the offices
Ashburton is not Timaru and a way from Christchurch. Services would need to be operating under strict security control but not closed.
Ah, yes. I know the locations. I hitchhiked a few times between Christchurch and Timaru in my youth.
Its feasible to get between those places pretty quickly by car – not so fast on a bike. People would have been jittery.
winz offices already have security.
Not much they can do against a gun, though.
They wouldn’t want to take chances that the gunman didn’t have a mate who might take another crack at the place or at another branch. Lives have to be put before anyone’s inconvenience.
the colin crazi party has a leaflet out…
It has a heading
“Key Facts
1. The amount of productive land in foreign hands is probably around 10% and growing”
I have two questions,
Can probably and around constitute a fact?
yeah – I wondered why the news had an item about him getting millions from managing foreign-owned properties, then I got the mailer. lol
what a tool.
Mr Slater’s email to “Mark,[name redacted] Carrick” appears to have been addressed to 3 people. Do we know who the person whose name has been blacked out is? Do we know why the name was hidden and who hid it?
I had assumed the name was that of the leaker but we now have conflicting information about who leaked it. Ms Odgers admits she handed it over, though not why. Striking out her name would serve no purpose – neither protection from the odium of association because she’s referred to freely in the letter, nor protection from her fellow miscreants, because they would know who the 3rd recipient was.
But today Kathryn Ryan insisted that the name and purpose of the leaker is unknown. So we may dismiss Odgers’ claim as diversionary and ask again who struck out one of the recipients’ names and why. And, whose name is it?
While those questions are logical, I suspect that they don’t incorporate that odgers is, in many areas, most likely to be functionally an idiot.
To tell the truth, the initial line of ‘she heard about more emails, assumed that one was included, and tried to preemptively come clean’ put me in mind of the wikileaks episode where the news orgs told the US govt about the docs, and the govt started a list of the docs that they thought should be withheld on security/safety/public interest grounds, but stopped halfway through when they realised that they were just telling the papers which cables were the juiciest lol
Latest whaledump is all about Mark Hotchin, with Cam the man and Prickly Cactus Kate scheming.
This Ashburton shooting is beyond tragic. Women gunned down at their place of work in small town New Zealand; the shooter – very likely someone with mental health issues – may have been shot by the AOS and we all – ALL OF US – have lost another shred of our tattered claim to be a decent and fair society.
No sanctimonious lectures from rightwing hypocrites please – but my first thought after the horror had subsided – was how the law and order brigade will milk the situation.
“No sanctimonious lectures from rightwing hypocrites please – but my first thought after the horror had subsided – was how the law and order brigade will milk the situation.”
– I understand, mine was how long it’ll be before someone blames John Key
PR I said before you were a dogmatic shit, now I think you a disrespectful disingenuous individual as well. But please feel free, to keep trying to make political mileage over this tragedy, you low life.
Did you read what I said, I said I understand which means i’m in agreement with TeWhareWhero when he said “but my first thought after”
Seriously guys (or girls) get a grip
PR very sad indictment of your self when all you are worried about is not connected to this in way desperate disingenuously distracting and completely dispicable!
apologize now!
I’m sorry you feel that way
Dftt
“- I understand, mine was how long it’ll be before someone blames John Key”
I think you probably mean “how long it’ll be before someone blames Paula Bennett?”, but yeah, given he is her boss I can see why you went there first.
I guess the winner was Sue Bradford
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10446861/Bradford-shooting-tweet-sparks-backlash
Yeah, because this is about who wins 🙄
I agree, you’d have thought she could have left the politics out for at least a day but nope guess not
Well, you didn’t leave politics out of it either, you dimwitted tool. You posted a political comment at 1.17. The difference between you and Bradford is that nobody takes you seriously.
And she is consistent
Is there some sort of lefty blindness going on? You do see my posting was in agreement with the other poster…
Bullshit. You could have just written ‘+ 1’ or similar, but you had to politicise it. What a tosser.
I’m sorry you feel that way
Your first thought was
” how long it’ll be before someone blames John Key”
Nope not politicising it with your right blindness…
And so far no one has blamed john key, so your first original thought in some time was… Wrong
I was agreeing with this:
“No sanctimonious lectures from rightwing hypocrites please – but my first thought after the horror had subsided – was how the law and order brigade will milk the situation.”
but my first thought after the horror had subsided
after the horror had subsided
Since most of you seem to be suffering from advance leftism, typical symptoms being unable to see what is written and making up own narrative I thought it might be salient just to reiterate exactly what I was replying to just so I’m not taken out of context
Did you all get that? I’ll repeat it once more for those that are a bit slow (GIMP supporters)
“No sanctimonious lectures from rightwing hypocrites please – but my first thought after the horror had subsided – was how the law and order brigade will milk the situation.”
I was agreeing with the poster but coming from a right-wing perspective
You’re an idiot with significant comprehension problems, PR. It’s a lucky thing for you that TS doesn’t ban for stupidity, but then the left are always empathetic with those with less of society’s usual minimum cognitive skills.
Are you getting dizzy yet?
She happens to be right though and, IMO, that’s the bit that scares the RWNJs demanding that we not politicise this the most.
Deborah Hill-Cone asks everyone to stop being mean to her friend Cathy Odgers. No, literally, she says that.
“Oi, you lot. Can you all please stop being so mean to my friend Cathy Odgers! She is not some Machiavellian Cruella de Vil.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/deborah-hill-cone/news/article.cfm?a_id=368&objectid=11317080
Oddly, the column is about DHC’s depression, not politics.
But sorry, Debbie, there are a bucketload of emails showing Cathy acting just like a Machiavellian Cruella de Vil. If the 101 Dalmatian-coat fits…
DimPost makes a great point today mentioning the DHC-Slater connection (she gifted him that Canon Media Award). So how many lines has she been running for Slater/Key also?
Edit – in the comments someone mentions this: “Surely on the basis of your friendship with Cactus Kate, you had an obligation to the organizers of the Canon Media awards to decline from partaking as a judge in the Blogging award category based on this revealed conflict of interest.” Hmmmm, did she declare that as a conflict? How close friends are they? Because if they really are such good friends she’s defending Odgers at this point (when no one else would touch her) then she’s far too close a friend to be able to judge impartially (i.e. she should have bowed out as judge). Time to email Canon…
I thought it was Machiavellian Cruella de Ville
But its an apt label.
It is apt, Tracey. But it’s ‘de Vil’.
I’ve just re-read the start of DHC’s column and I’m utterly perplexed. How can you defend someone, even a friend, who has conspired to target innocent public servants? And who is bullying ‘poor’ Odgers? DHC doesn’t mention anything – just waves a hand in the general direction of the left.
Thanks Tigger
By all means stick by your mates BUT dont submit it as a piece of journalism and do a poor me on behalf of that mate. That is not good journalistic integrity imo.
And Odgers is ok cos she gave DCH children a giant paddington bear!!!?!
No one is all bad for sure and maybe Odgers is bored BUT she is involved in some stuff seriously undermining our democracy and justice system.
Need more than a big fucking soft toy to get around that.
Completely agree. I cannot understand Hill Cone’s thinking in writing this or the paper for publishing it. As you say, Odgers is involved in undermining democracy but Hill Cone thinks it’s a bit of a laff? Just how closely connected is Hill Cone with this band of thugs? So closely that she’s lost all perspective it would seem.
Hill Cone and Slater seem to share the same illness…
Deborah Hill Cone is the sole judge who awarded Cameron Slater the Canon Best Blogger of the Year award.
Her first column after the release of Dirty Politics was a masterpiece of deflection. No mention of any involvement, a very personal piece on her fragility and her decision to continue with her column.
I have not yet read any of her columns that make sense or provide any insight.
Molly- well and rather kindly said.
Columnists who write about topical issues are often worth reading.
Columnists who write about themselves are never worth reading.
An Avaaz petition has just started calling for a proper investigation.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Governor_General_of_New_Zealand_Investigate_all_the_allegations_of_corruption_in_the_National_government/?cIeBDcb
Please share!
shame they are calling for it to be run before the election .. that’s just impossible and a little careless in the wording imho. fine idea tho in principle.
Yes that is a good point. I view that as simply emphasizing the urgency, yet yes, that is good point. Hope you sign just the same!
The email that was released by the PM was from 5 October 2011.
Emails from the most recent Whaledump were from August 2011, December, 2011 and April, 2012.
I don’t know anything about databases and how they are stored but it seems odd to have before and after but not that particular one.
Also, Feeley was originally ‘caught out’ by the Weekend Herald which had “obtained a staff email“.
On 21 December 2012 (in latest Whaledump) Slater says “SFO leakers are leaking again. I have got emails this morning.”
We’ll never know how the Weekend Herald ‘obtained’ the staff email I guess.
“I don’t know anything about databases and how they are stored but it seems odd to have before and after but not that particular one.”
I thought that odd too, but I’m not sure we have the full story on who did the hacking and who got the data. Lanth points out that Hager took some but not all of the docs. Rawshark took others to give to various MSM. There may have been more than one hacker involved. Or as you say, maybe it’s something to do with data storage.
Agreed.
I’m sure we don’t have the full story.
Laila Harre is doing an Ask Me Anything on Reddit on Thurs,
http://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/2f4x0g/internet_party_leader_laila_harré_will_be_doing/
Anyone know what the deal with with advance voting? I just tried to find something about it online and elections.org.nz says there will be something in the mail the week before the election, but I thought advanced voting was open already.
I dont think it is available yet. Even the electoral commission would have the link up. I have emailed and asked. Will let you know.
Weka
Got an answer from MSD on my OIA. Put it on that guest post I wrote. Ministry of Finance seem to be having trouble locating the summary bill got from paula though… So even when your request is very short and specific, you dont get it in one or two days when it relates to a political statement
Thanks Tracey. What’s the name of the post again (or keyword)? Might be timely for a follow up post 😉
Edit: found your post link in the other thread, cheers
http://thestandard.org.nz/guest-post-tracey-blinglish-single-handedly-reduces-teenage-pregnancies/#comment-877463
Hi weka
Advance voting from this Wednesday (3rd) and for details about where & when to drop by to do it, go to:
http://www.elections.org.nz/events/2014-general-election/information-voters-who-when-and-where
Select your electorate. And on the new webpage, there is the orange icon for ‘Advance Voting’. Click that or scroll down for details.
Hope that helps.
Thanks! For some reason I thought it started today, and that it could be done online.
Online?
Mmm. Maybe you had come across something in passing about overseas voters being able to return their voting papers by uploading them to a secure server on the Electoral Commission’s website?
http://www.elections.org.nz/book/export/html/1904
@kiwiri. Thanks ever so-I looked for ages on the useless election site to try to find a list of Advance Voting places (I’m overseas on 20th) and couldn’t find it.
Have shared the web address (above) on Facebook and suggest all Standardista’s do the same.
JK is singing slightly different lyrics. From ‘at the end of the day’ to ‘in the end’. Perhaps inspired by:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP-bAlOJzWc
“in the end, it doesn’t even matter
I had to fall, to lose it all,
But in the end, it doesn’t even matter”
I was just hearing about the Game of Thrones book A Feast of Crows. The usual mixup of plots and schemes and dirty dealings and loyalty. Sounds like our present political scene.
The Ashburton shooting appears to be the result of an acute failure of social services in the regions, likely due to cutbacks in mental health support services and extra pressure on WINZ to minimise payments.
Mr Tully reportedly asked for help on numerous occasions to multiple departments but the state of social help in regions like Ashburton is so woeful that he seems to have been ignored.
The public did not want a bar of Mr Tully and now two innocent people are dead.
Right wing people, including the current government, refuse to accept that not every person is capable of living up to their mantra of self reliance.
You can judge a society by the way it treats its vulnerable people.
The National mantra of isolation and disdain for anyone that doesn’t fit their narrow self-serving template.
Rangitata’s Jo Goodhew is the associate minister of health, FFS. She knew this case well but it’s not in her, or anyone in her government’s, ideology to do anything about it.
What makes you think this is partly about mental health services?
The man was seen to be a nuisance in the town. Slept rough, engaged services, made statements like pitching a tent in the middle of the Domain.
Surely in a functioning society, police and or other officials would alert mental health services and they would respond.
Not Ashburton society apparently.
Nothing about the behaviours you describe says mental health consumer to me. He might be or he might not be, but too many people are making judgements today without any evidence.
I mean, if we were really going to look at mental health, how about the numerous people who reported him livign in his tent, and then him being moved on by the police (whatever the fuck that’s a euphamism for).
He should have been assessed for mental health issues, and I hope he was.
Or maybe he was and going into mental health services fucked him up. Been known to happen.
Are we assuming because he was on a beneft and homeless that he would have mental health issues requiring assessment? Why?
Not sure what politically correct point you are trying to make weka, but this man is definitely going to get his mental health assessment now, courtesy of our criminal justice system.
Well duh, he’s just committed an extremely violent crime, of course he will be psychologically assessed.
And fuck off with the PC slur. You still haven’t said why you think this man should have been assessed by a mental health team in the past. And you seem unaware of the reality that ending up in mental health services can make things worse for some people, esp if their basic needs aren’t being met and they get unnecessarily labelled instead.
So, you think he clearly warrants receiving a mental health assessment now. But not one month ago. Explain.
I’ll answer your questions when you answer the one I’ve already asked twice: what makes you think that Tully was in need of a mental health assessment in the past?
I’m talking recent past weka – as in the last few months – as he was getting into more and more trouble with authorities.
Maybe you have read something I haven’t. Can you please link to something that indicates he needed a mental health assessment by the state. Getting into trouble with the authorities (not sure what that means, do you mean pitching his tent in the park?), isn’t inherently a sign of mental health problems. He might just have really needed a place to live.
Or have I really missed something here?
“he was getting into more and more trouble with authorities.”
I find it hard to reconcile this view cv, that someone who is getting into trouble with the authorities has a mental illness, with many of your previous posts that lead me to believe that you understand that people who are at the bottom of society should stand up to authority to fight for what they legitimately need. etc, etc.
In fact hard to reconcile is an understatement. I’m actually shocked that this association of anti-authoritarianism and mental health issues comes from you.
No-one could be more at the bottom of society than this guy. If in fact he did have a mental health problems (diagnosed long-term illness, or temporarily unable to cope) the removal of stressors may have eased the symptoms of it whereas mental health assessment and still being homeless and at war with social service may not have.
Re your long comment below:
“At the same time, I have no doubt that cheaply available social housing and other supports would have taken most of the pressure off Tully months ago.”
And that’s the context isn’t it? Society and government institutions not working for people. An immense tragedy that may not have happened if health, housing and income suport systems and other authorities functioned for the people they should serve.
Seems to me he needed housing services ahead of mental health services.
Exactly. A home, enough income, support with his chronic medical issues, then see if he needed/wanted help with his mental health.
big apologies from the Staff at WINZ to you Weka, they should have thought of that ideal
🙄
Hi Weka. I’m just upset that someone like this wasn’t listened to by someone in Ashburton other than the reporter from The Guardian who appeared to have some compassion for the man’s plight. It’s lead to the death of two mothers? Daughters? Sisters?
There was a lot of hand wringing from officials interviewed for the same article that day in August including the associate minister of health, but still he was allowed to sleep by the side of the Ashburton River in the middle of winter.
From the local mental health services or whatever other services available there, it’s not been good enough.
I can understand the upset Wb. I still don’t see the connection with mental health services. I’ve just read read this Herald article (haven’t watched the video), and there is nothing in there to indicate he needed mental health team support. Not saying he didn’t, but am unclear why people are assuming he did.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11317351
My concern here is that people are making a connection between mental health and violence, or mental health and being homeless that doesn’t exist. We all have mental health, and people are affected differently by circumstances. I still reckon the guy needed a home.
Perhaps it’s easier for some people to believe that such an aweful crime can be committed by someone who is mentally unwell, instead of someone who is desperate in their life circumstances. (I have no idea if he was either).
Your concern is admirable, in terms of asserting the general case. But IMO it’s also misdirected. I spent some time tonight researching further. And as I intuited, there are very strong associations between mental health and homelessness in the literature that perhaps you appear unaware of. At the same time, I have no doubt that cheaply available social housing and other supports would have taken most of the pressure off Tully months ago.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_and_mental_health
source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1600-0447.2002.02209.x/abstract;jsessionid=DA48B41B8F9285910532248DC2576E50.f04t04?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
source: http://qni.org.uk/docs/mental_gealth_guidance_print.pdf
source: http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.html
source: http://www.usatoday.com/longform/news/nation/2014/08/27/mental-health-homeless-series/14255283/
source: http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/parl-support/research-papers/00PLEcoRP14021/homelessness-in-new-zealand
sorry mate, but I’m perfectly aware of the connections between homelessness and mental health, and I didn’t need to look them up before commenting. What I’m objecting to is you suggesting that every homeless person has a psych evaluation, simply because they’re homeless, because that is prejudicial.
I suggest you go do some research on prejudice against people with mental health issues, prejudice against people who don’t act normally and who get labelled mentally ill, prejudice against people who are homeless, and check out the anti-psychiatry movement.
It’s really important to not pathologise people around mental health, and it’s important to not connect up mental health and violence automatically.
You also still seem to think that giving someone an assessment is going to be the appropriate thing, whereas it might not, it might just make things worse. For instance, say he gets assessed and starts cycling in and out of daycare or even a psych ward. Maybe they get the diagnosis wrong (maybe he’s not mentall unwell or maybe he is and they still get it wrong), and then it takes time to get his meds right (or he doesn’t actually need any and the meds make his mental health deteriorate). Now he has another whole complex layer of stress on him, and still nowhere to live and less capacity to deal with it.
(that is all hypothetical btw, I don’t know what Tully’s situation was).
WTF? Where the hell did I suggest this??? You’re the one who tried to say that there was no connection:
Then you tried to back track by saying??? –
What? These are two completely contradictory statements. It is associated or there’s no association. Which one do you want to go with, please.
I have asked you repeatedly why you think Tully should have had a mental health assessment in the past. You haven’t answered that question directly, so you can’t blame me for then trying to guess what you mean.
“but I’m perfectly aware of the connections between homelessness and mental health” = statistically, correlations. But can’t be applied to any one individual automatically, or all homeless people, hence,
“My concern here is that people are making a connection between…mental health and being homeless that doesn’t exist.”
I’ll ask again, what evidence or theory do you have that Tully should have had a mental health assessment in the past, apart from him being a homeless person? (which I think we are in agreement now isn’t a criteria for a psych evaluation).
Don’t use directly contradictory statements and positions is all I ask.
Sorry I disagree. The presence of significant risk factors is naturally an indicator for initiating a health assessment; even if an individual risk factor is not sufficient to take action on, it must still be considered and weighed up. Why do you not agree.
Prolonged homelessness is a major risk factor. The literature says so and you agree. Add to that disruptive behaviour in the WINZ office leading him to be trespassed, and at least one reported contact with police.
Also, we know what he did to innocent people in the WINZ office, and can guess that he harboured highly violent thoughts for some time leading up to the day. A formal mental health assessment could have picked that up.
Now let me ask you a question. If you don’t think the above was enough to justify a mental health assessment, what in your view would.
“Don’t use directly contradictory statements and positions is all I ask.”
My statements aren’t contradictory. I’ve explained them, do you understand what I meant now?
“(which I think we are in agreement now isn’t a criteria for a psych evaluation).
Sorry I disagree.”
So you think being homeless, on its own, is enough to warrant a psych evaluation?
I don’t. I think that being homeless and at statistical risk of mental illness means that the people with mental health problems who are homeless should get the support they need and that the people who are homeless without mental health problems should not be assessed unless they want to be. Saying that those who don’t need it should be assessed is disempowering, and creates all sorts of problem (some of which I have already mentioned).
Now you bring in other factors, which gives me a better idea of what you are thinking.
“The presence of significant risk factors is naturally an indicator for initiating a health assessment; even if an individual risk factor is not sufficient to take action on, it must still be considered and weighed up. Why do you not agree.”
Because in every case it’s going to be individual. And we, sitting on the internet, don’t have enough information to make that judgement call about Tully. Or anyone really.
One of the things I am probably objecting to is your apparent disempowerment model. Your original statement,
“He should have been assessed for mental health issues, and I hope he was.”
This implies that someone else should have made sure he had an assessment, irrespective of whether he needed one or not, or wanted one or not. You are suggesting that a man who is probably already experiencing multiple disempowerments from multiple agencies, be subjected to another one in an area that will make him highly vulnerable. That’s not a good idea. It’s also not ok to be pushing people to have psych evaluations when what they need is to be provided with a home.
Here’s what I’ve heard in the last day:
– he pitched a tent in a public place
– he was homeless (how long for?)
– his behaviour was disruptive enough at WINZ to get him barred (what level of behaviour is required for that? How is it related to mental health?)
– he has had one instance of contact with the police (what for? how was that related to mental health?)
None of those singly or together suggest reason that he should have been subjected to a mental health assessment. I’m not saying he didn’t need help with his mental health, I’m saying we have no idea whether he need help or not.
I am curious however where you think an assessment might have been offered. Referral from WINZ? The police? The mayor? HNZ?
“Also, we know what he did to innocent people in the WINZ office, and can guess that he harboured highly violent thoughts for some time leading up to the day.”
We only know that with hindsight, so it’s not relevant to a conversation about past assessments. I do agree that closer to the day people may have seen things of concern, but say 6 weeks ago when he visited the Mayor? There may not have been any need for an assessment.
“Now let me ask you a question. If you don’t think the above was enough to justify a mental health assessment, what in your view would.”
eg
– If he had been talking about his mental health and/or asking for help with his mental health, and those things sounded extreme enough to warrant the state getting involved.
– if he had been saying things like “I can’t cope”
– If he had displayed symptoms of poor mental health eg had been distressed frequently and unable to manage that distress (although again, he might have been better being offered support rather than an assessment)
– if he had a history of mental health problems
– if when he was barred from WINZ or had his contact with the police he presented as either not understanding what was happening, or his thinking was out of order (and I don’t mean him being angry or upset).
I can think of other things too, but they mostly don’t inherently mean a mental health assessment is needed. I think there would be other indicators too (and I’m mindful of the fact that many people will hide mental health issues and men in particular are less likely to ask for help), but it’s not really my field. All I’m saying is that the little bit in the news that we know about isn’t sufficient to say he should have been assessed and that it’s unhelpful to speculate about his mental health when we really have no idea.
My tuppence worth is to wonder at the mental state of people who phone complaints about a homeless guy pitching a tent instead of taking him a cuppa, having a chat, asking if there’s anything they can do, asking if there’s anything he needs… Y’know?
True. We are a society in fear. The dismantling of communities is a very real social problem.
@ Weepus beard
We are a society that doesn’t care (to examine oneself and our society in general, and to extend a hand to those knocked down by our society’s systems eg alcohol pushing, education pushing with no jobs to follow, and just inability to cope with the hypocrisy gap between stated societal beliefs and the reality.)
The dismantling of communities is a very real social problem.
The Mayor when interviewed on RNZ this evening felt it necessary to state multiple times that Tully had the option of somewhere to live in TImaru, but chose to stay in Ashburton. No mention of context or reasons or whether Tully had an actual choice or just one the Mayor perceived.
Weka, I can’t work out what you know and don’t know and am unsure about what you are trying to say. You’ve not made yourself clear at all.
He was brought up in Ashburton. His father had died in Ashburton, and he, in his own words, had come home to die and be buried next to his father. He didn’t want to be in Timaru or Christchurch.
He appears to have been a son of Ashburton.
They didn’t want him.
Thanks, I didn’t know that about his father, knew the rest. My comment above was a dig at the Mayor’s mental health (which is really a dig at his consciousness or lack of).
What?! You made the assumption that the Major’s behaviour was an aspect of his mental health?! And then you stigmatised those with health issues by using “mental health” in a negative frame? Oh heavens, call out the guard!
lol this whole discussion has now dissolved into “PC madness” lol.
No, I’m taking a poke at the people here who think that being homeless is criteria for mental health assessment, but being in a position of power and not helping a homeless person isn’t.
should NZ Nat send you money to whistle warbler? or do you think its ok if we get on with NZ .
@ paul s
I see you are a superior RWNJ. From your imagined higher intellect looking at the lower orders and passing sarcastic remarks. Can you just keep staying at the side, not getting in our way as we try to regain a decent country and assist the damaged from the neo liberal global free market earthquakes.
We won’t get help from you, just don’t try to prevent our efforts as we get on with project NZ Beneficent, all getting prosperous and, reasonably happy, together.
4.25 today — Herald has some new emails from Rawshark .. Collins claims they must be forged .. but goodness, prison is looking possible.
Might be elsewhere on TS .. sorry if it is; have just come home and haven’t checked everywhere.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11317385
Not big on linking to other sites but Chris Trotter has gathered all his emotion and sharply blunt prose today and not let it go to waste.
– Chris Trotter
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/09/01/ashburton-1-september-2014/
Can you have sharply blunt prose weeping one?
Trotter is a Christian school teacher, not sharp, blunt.
That was an attempt a juxtaposition. A clumsy one at that, sorry.
I like language that creates images and draws scenes as if in a play and Trotter does this freely. He described Bill English’s last budget by invoking a picture of those left out in the cold looking in at the National Party elite comfortable in their warmly lit homes.
That was my own amateur attempt at doing something similar.
I am sure I read somewhere that Mark Hotchins mansion was apparently bought at a huge discount by one of the Oravida directors – when it was sold off when his assets were frozen, but now I can’t find it.
Judith Collin’s husband – I think it was his boss who bought it IIRC.
read with a grain of salt and a bit of critical thinking:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11164421
and
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11165922
also not Peter Thiel mention, cross ref with Palantir, five eyes, gcsb spynetworks etc.
related?
There’s a real gem if you missed it, on Radio Live yesterday: Hooton and Boag going at each other hammer and tongs: it’s beautiful.
http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Audio.aspx
go to Sunday at 10: 15, and you are right in it.
f.y.i..
..60 mins @ 8.30 is doing a piece on the medical qualities of cannabis…
Did anyone else see the item on Georgina Beyer on TV3 News tonight? She was apparently speaking out against Dotcom
http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/dotcom-only-interested-in-retribution—beyer-2014090118
[there is text and a video on that link]
This seems a strange thing to do at this point in the election.
Our political scene all seems to have gone a little barmy, if you asked me.
Anyone hear anything more on this?
Interesting (reading the text). Bet it’s taken out of context.
“Our political scene all seems to have gone a little barmy, if you asked me.”
Sure has.
Yeah, that is what I wondered too (taken out of context).
I can’t find anything else on it. Guess I’ll have to wait and see if any more information comes to light over that one.
just watched the video. She’s pretty unequivocal. I wonder where she was when that was filmed.
If it just happened this afternoon, Mana won’t have had time to respond.
I agree – she does seem pretty unequivocal. I was hoping there must be some mistake.
Hope Mana do respond to this promptly. I can’t believe that one of their reps would say something so divisive this close to the election.
annette sykes on maori tv..
..confirming all the reasons why i am a member of the mana party…
What did you make of that statement by Georgina Beyer, Phil?
I was wondering whether it was taken out of context and was a little surprised there was nothing on the internet about it.
i scratched my head..
..i actually scratched my head when beyer was announced as a candidate..
..(but that’s another story..)
..beyer seemed to be pushing the idea that somehow harawira/harre/sykes/minto et al..are dotcoms’ playthings…
..which is just farcical/ludicrous to anyone with the slightest knowledge of those people..
..and having heard boag say she had been speaking to a mana person..(who said much the same that beyer said..)
..and if boag wasn’t just outright lying…(is this a day ending is a ‘y’..)…i thought that beyer was most likely the mana ‘insider’ boag had been talking to..
..(them knowing each other from when beyer was in parl b4…)
..and i think beyer if is unhappy..she should just resign..
..and slip back into obscurity..
I don’t suppose you know where abouts you heard Boag talking about that?
It is a real pity re Beyer’s comments.
I am a wee bit divided about the whole Dotcom/Mana connection.
I initially thought it was an excellent idea, yet have reservations about it now 🙁
I really like the way Dotcom speaks out on things, perhaps a little uncomfortable since he became so strongly involved in politics.
Love Laila’s style, she’s fantastic!
I probably would prefer that the two parties were more separate from one another – I thought they were going to be distinct from one another, yet joined as far as vote count. They appeal to quite different groups.
yeah, i’m a wee bit torn as to whether it makes me more or less likely to vote imp on the day – kdc is a bit meh, but laila was a fine choice. And Hone’s softened a bit, too. Growing a bit of discretion.
Funny!…bcos I am slightly on the other side – support Mana – like the strong voice/support for the least privileged in society that they provide. Definitely approve of Laila, yet less fussed re the thrust of the Internet policies.
I guess the good thing about it is I don’t have to choose between the two 🙂 But definitely not happy if there is going to be lack of unity between the two.
I am going to treat that tv3 item with suspicion until further information comes to light.
probably in that hoots/boag brouhaha..
..(but i can’t guarantee that..there has been a lot of boag lately..)
It wasn’t in that one yesterday, I listened to it.
I’ll go off and do a google search
on second thoughts..i saw her say it..
..and it was a throwaway comment..not a thesis..
..but that was my first thought when i saw beyer..
..that..going on those common words.. it was likely beyer who boag had been talking to..
Ah…so prob on something like Q&A.
I wish Mana would put out some sort of statement on what Beyer said. It is pretty worrying and could simply be some awful made-up spin to destabilize the party.
I’m not having much luck finding anything.
Exactly, if Beyer feels that strongly, jump the canoe. Can’t believe she’d wait until three weeks out before springing this, though. It’s not her opinion that irks me, it’s the timing. She’s had months to spit the KDC dummy, why leave it this late? The Nats have a spare space in their rowboat now that Key’s taken Cupcake Collins’ oar off her. Perhaps Beyer would enjoy being among that crew, instead? Because what she’s done is a bit of a dirty trick in its own right.
If Maori Party had balance of power who’d Waiariki voters want them to coalition with? 26% National 63% Labour 11% Don’t Know
https://twitter.com/iulialeilua/status/506367588935299072
Flavell (50%) leads Waiariki electorate vote by miles, Labour (35%) leads a more widely distributed party vote in #NativeAffairs poll.
https://twitter.com/publicaddress/status/506372571386761216
Full breakdown of the numbers up at
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11317473
Thanks. Split votes, traditional left and right are pretty close in numbers. Interesting comment about wanting Mana and Mp to work together.
Not the worlds best song.
But wow, just weird. It’s not 1984 – but it’s still the same lies from those in power.
Afrika Bambaataa feat.John Lydon – World Destruction
Downtown @D3vils_Helper 48 mins
@nikkikaye Senior Housing Department managers predicted that this would happen if their functions were handed to WINZ why did no one listen?
Downtown @D3vils_Helper 57 mins
@PaulHenryShow This can be attributed to WINZ taking on Housing Dept functions without the proper Training. WINZ have a different agenda
https://twitter.com/D3vils_Helper/status/506382538638508032