Open mike 01/10/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 1st, 2011 - 170 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

170 comments on “Open mike 01/10/2011”

  1. BWS 1

    I predict that soon people on the Left will hail the Morgan poll out yesterday as indicating the imminent collapse of Key’s government, and will say that Labour is on track to win back the government benches. I also predict that very little comment will be made by these same people when the TV3 and TVNZ polls come out on Sunday night.

    • Lanthanide 1.1

      We can probably expect to see a sizable dent in the “Country heading in the right direction” in the next poll due to the credit downgrade, I think.

    • lprent 1.2

      Why? There is nothing different in it apart from rugby effects, as I expect the other polls to be as well. But authors write on what they want to. So do commentators with some limits from moderators.

      But are you expecting large amounts of variance between polls by different companies? That in itself is pretty interesting bearing in mind that they are meant to be accurately measuring the same voting population.

      But I will agree with your implied preposition that the polls from different organisations are quite different and probably highly inaccurate.

    • Deadly_NZ 1.3

      Did you see this ?? Only one question was even minutely questioning Key. Just another smile and wave day.

      • Lanthanide 1.3.1

        John Key actually performed pretty well in that interview, I think. None of his usual smarmy bullshit and didn’t mangle any of his words.

  2. Anthony 2

    Dear Labour,

    Please stop attacking the Mad Butcher, for better or for worse people like him, and you come across like a bunch of dicks.

    Also let a bad story die, don’t reignite it.

    • The Herald editorial has a say on it too. It makes a general observation:

      “he’s either with us or against us” is an unlovely insight into the tribal, old-school politics of some on the left.

      A few of the old school here might like to ponder on that.

      • millsy 2.1.1

        Nothing wrong with a bit of tribalism. Much better than pappy Blairism.

        The Mad Butcher is a traitor. If he supports John Key then he supports:

        The reduction of the state housing stock and tighening of state housing criteria, leading to the creation of slums,
        The privatisation and Americanisation of our health system
        The weakening of labour laws and protections, which will give employers the power to treat their workers like dirt
        The destruction of our social safety net, leading to homelessness across the board
        The privatisation of water services by councils, which will hit the poor the hardest
        The privatisation of infrstructure, and possible sale to the Chinese
        The loosening of standards with regards to air and water quality, leading to poor health among people
        The sale of our farms to off shore owners


        I personally would support a boycott of his stores.

        • Spiker

          Wow, just….wow…..

          • felix

            What do you find so “wow” exactly?

            Anything in that list you’d like to challenge?

            Or are you just having trouble with the jarring contrast between Key’s PR and his politics?

        • jagilby

          Please do keep going on… I love hearing all the baseless reasoning.

          Explaining is losing, you seriously can’t STFU for one minute and reflect to see the wood for the trees.
          Just more evidence that you lot might as well be on another planet when it comes to convincing the electorate you should be running the country.

          • Draco T Bastard

            What baseless reasoning? John Key has either already implemented those policies or said that they will be implemented next term.

            • McFlock

              “explaining is losing”.
              Smile, wave, and say “thankyou sir, may I have another?” There’s a winning strategy.

    • Carol 2.2

      Actually, I think it’s good that the left demonstrates some differences of opinions on such issues.

      for better or for worse people like him

      What people? I think it may be no accident that the Labour MPs who have been critical of Sir MB are women, and that the guys are more likely to either defend him or to resile from criticising him.

      I most like watching rugby union, but also enjoy watching League from time to time, as well as listening to Radio Sport on occasions. I have never taken to the MB and his rants – to me he is an unlikeable irritation. I suspect his appeal is largely to male sports fans and especially male League fans (which probably includes a lot of MSM journalists)… that hardly makes him a popular man of the people generally.

      • Anthony 2.2.1

        I’d say most of Louisa’s electorate like him, men and women. I take it you aren’t from South Auckland?

        It’s just a stupid issue to focus on when you are trying to win an election.

        • millsy

          And what about his support for policies that will screw people in those areas?

          He. Is. A. Traitor.

          I don’t care if he gives to charities. Charities always pick and choose who they help, and make people jump through hoops. Look at Habitat for Humanity. we are better off bringing back Housing Corp mortgages and increasing the state housing stock rather than relying on those clowns. And I bet you that butcher boy has all his workers on a 90-day trial period,

      • Vicky32 2.2.2

        I have never taken to the MB and his rants – to me he is an unlikeable irritation. I suspect his appeal is largely to male sports fans and especially male League fans (which probably includes a lot of MSM journalists)… that hardly makes him a popular man of the people generally.

        I despise organised sport generally (I am told that’s a serious character fault somewhat similar to kicking puppies – although I don’t do that) so I assess the MB on the basis of his ‘stores’ (cold, unpleasant and not particularly cheap) and his public persona – that of Shouty Man. I’ve learned by chatting to them, that he doesn’t pay his staff well enough to compensate them for a very unpleasant working environment, and muddled schedules, so I am very unimpressed with the man. 

    • bemused 2.3

      “Darien should have stood by her comments. The world needs more people like her, who would stick it to the powerful in the name of the powerless.

      Mad Butcher, you are dirty stinking flithy traitor.”

      Open mike 30/09/2011

      • millsy 2.3.1

        Unlike Darien, I stand by my comments.

        And, I dont think anyone will squeal to my work about it, as I dont tell anyone where I work. My employer will probably laugh anyway, my work holds the position that what goes on in their workers life outside their work is their own business (apart from getting stoned in the morning before coming to work).

    • So let me get this right, this idiot, Louisa Wall wont buy stuff from people who dont vote for her party? what an idiot.

      • Morrissey 2.4.1

        That football-hating, Palestinian-hating, Mad Butcher-boosting, mediocrity-loving drip Brett “God I hate Football” Dale seems to have worked himself up into a lather after hearing Louisa Wall criticize his half-witted hero…

        this idiot, Louisa Wall wont buy stuff from people who dont vote for her party what an idiot.

        You have a track record of posting up crude, foolish, ill-informed rants on a large number of topics. For you to call Louisa Wall, or anyone else for that matter, an “idiot” is irony indeed.

        By the way, you mis-spelled don’t and won’t.

        • Brett Dale


          I don’t hate Football, I love my football, go the all whites, and go the phoenix.

          I dont hate any Palestinian’s? I dont know any Palestinian’s for that matter, If your talking about that guy who is alleged to have sleazy behavior towards woman, well I hope that gets dealt with, it hasnt nothing to do with where he is from.

          If Louisa will only buy from business’s that will vote for her party, then I will call
          her an idiot.

          Yes my spelling and grammar is awful.

          • Morrissey

            Brett Dale is still bewildered.

            I don’t hate Football, I love my football,

            Ever since the World Cup started, you have been trumpeting more than normal how much you hate the game.

            go the all whites,

            Shows how much you know about football. The All Whites have (several seasons ago) transmogrified into the Ospreys. But, yes, they did have a glorious history, including wins over the All Blacks and more recently, the Wallabies….

            and go the phoenix.

            That’s a soccer team.

            I dont hate any Palestinian’s

            Really? Then I invite others to look at what you wrote in January 2009, as Palestinian hospitals and homes and people were being massively and systematically destroyed. As your several comments demonstrate, you were completely in favour of the massacre….

            Israel – a failed democracy

            I dont know any Palestinian’s for that matter

            You do but you’re just too insensitive to realize it. I am sure none of them has ever felt that they wanted to reveal their ethnicity to you, if you verbalize the sort of ignorant, hate-filled nonsense that you post on the internet.

            If your talking about that guy who is alleged to have sleazy behavior towards woman

            What on earth are you talking about?

            Yes my spelling and grammar is awful.

            Your spelling and grammar errors are trifling, compared to your mean-spirited and spurious comments about football, and, even worse, your callous and repeated statements of support for the perpetrators of mass murder.

            • Ianupnorth

              Football is played with a round ball; NZ Soccer rebranded as NZ Football abut 6 years ago, you’ll only find ‘soccer’ in the USA.

              Rugby, on the other hand, was a game developed at a toff’s school by people who lacked the ability to kick a ball, so picked it up and ran; later the ball became oval shaped. 

              • Morrissey

                Football is played with a round ball;
                Correct, but not only with a round ball. Several kinds of football use an oval ball, and two (American and Canadian football) even use an “oblate spheroid.”

                NZ Soccer rebranded as NZ Football abut 6 years ago,

                Soccer New Zealand changed its name to NZ Football in compliance with a mischievous prank by John “Possumhead” O’Neill, the new head of the Australian Soccer Federation, who did the same thing over there—for no other reason than to annoy his erstwhile Australian Rugby Union colleagues, who had just fired him.

                FIFA boss Sepp Blatter had been pleading for years with the ASF and Soccer New Zealand to change their names, but he had always been ignored. O’Neill managed to do it with his whimsical decree, however, manipulating Soccer New Zealand just like he did the New Zealand rugby bosses in 2002, when he wrested the hosting of the 2003 RWC off us.

                you’ll only find ‘soccer’ in the USA.
                And Canada, and Japan, and Korea, and Australia and New Zealand, and throughout the Pacific Islands. And what was the name of the stadium that hosted the final of the World Cup in South Africa last year?

                Both New Zealand and Australian soccer bosses realized (and still do) that “football” is a contested term in both countries, though most people mean Rugby football or Australian Rules football.

                Rugby, on the other hand, was a game developed at a toff’s school by people who lacked the ability to kick a ball, so picked it up and ran;

                Nonsense, Ian. You seem like a bright guy, and I can’t believe that you would be dumb enough to swallow that Webb Ellis myth. That puts you in the same company as boofheads like Murray (“Too Many Dark Faces”) Deaker and the gin-swillers at the International Rugby Board.

                later the ball became oval shaped.
                That was so it could be drop-kicked further.

                Kicking is an integral part of rugby football, as you know perfectly well.

            • Vicky32

              That’s a soccer team.

              Point of order! In the USA and NZ it’s called soccer, in the rest of the world, it’s football! I loathe team sports, but my son is a Phoenix fanatic, and projectile vomits when he hears people call it “soccer”. (I have been forced to realise that now, 2011, New Zealanders do all “talk American” (as predicted in the Listener in 1986), …Open Orifice’s NZ spell check is exactly the same as American English, and red-lines all the British (formerly NZ) spellings I use, for example….but that doesn’t mean I have to like it…

              • Morrissey

                Point of order! In the USA and NZ it’s called soccer,

                Invalid. You forgot, or neglected, to add Canada, and Japan, and Korea, and Australia, and the islands of the Pacific.

                my son is a Phoenix fanatic, and projectile vomits when he hears people call it “soccer”.

                Your son must hate being alive then. Perhaps he needs to realize what country he lives in.

              • Vicky32

                AFAIK, it’s been soccer in NZ only in the last 7-8 years, since we all started speaking American.. My son doesn’t hate living in NZ (he likes it much more than I do) but he’s even more sensitive to what things are called than I am…

                • The Voice of Reason

                  Just the opposite, Vicky32. It’s been soccer since records began (and I know, having contributed to researching the history of the game in my town back to 1923). The move to standardising the game as football began about a decade ago, but has not been forced on the yanks because of the cultural dominance of their version of football (Gridiron). I do like the Guardian football correspondents’ habit of jokingly referring to the USA’s Major League Soccer as SoccerBall! (TM).
                  I’m comfortable with both versions, though, especially as soccer as a word comes from the abbreviation of Association Football, which clearly indicates it was football before it was soccer.
                  Have to agree about the bastardisation, sorry, americanisation, of our language though. I cringe every time I see the Jackal post his Asshole of the Week as if we were living in Shitkicker, Missouri or I hear the letter z mispronounced by our maleducated youth. And don’t get me started on the TV weather crew referring to ‘rain on the Westside’ or other such gang related bollocks. Grrrrr!

                  • Vicky32

                    Have to agree about the bastardisation, sorry, americanisation, of our language though. I cringe every time I see the Jackal post his Asshole of the Week as if we were living in Shitkicker, Missouri or I hear the letter z mispronounced by our maleducated youth. And don’t get me started on the TV weather crew referring to ‘rain on the Westside’ or other such gang related bollocks. Grrrrr!

                    Thanks for clarifying, VoR! I am glad to be sure..
                    I first remember hearing ‘z’ mispronounced by the maleducated, in 1996, whilst working in an Intermediate school library… If people talking about their or someone else’s ass I always pretend to believe they mean donkey! 😀 But my un-favourite at the moment is ‘store’. A store is a warehouse. A retail outlet is a shop… online ‘stores’ particularly annoy me as they can’t be a ‘store’ in any sense, without physical premises!

  3. Janice 3

    I have tried to do some research on the “Special Honours List” out today, but have been unable to find what triggers the awards dates. They were first legislated for on 20th September 1999, but they appear to be able to be awarded at any time, unlike others such as New Year and Queen’s Birthday. Am I being cynical thinking that this list is in response to deflect the criticism of the SAS being the Afghanistan?

    • millsy 3.1

      I’m not really keen on the SAS being in Afghanistan, but what I am uneasy about the most is the SAS being portrayed by the media (with approval from the NZDF) as pin-up boys, and tools to attract people into signing up. The NZSAS conduct their missions with strict secrecy, but the coverage of their activities could very well be putting them in danger, ie the photos of Willie Apiata. I am wondering if he has a price placed on his head by Taliban warlords.

  4. mikesh 4

    I think anyone who steps into the spotlight has to be prepared to take the good with the bad, criticism wise, particularly if they express support for a political party (or its leader).

  5. mik e 5

    The butcher built his empire on the back of poor working class people now he’s in the ranks of the elite .

    • Tiger Mountain 5.1

      Exactly, a number of those who munched Sir Mad to millionaire status had better get used to regular sausages and brisket rather than pork roasts if his new chum ShonKey gets back in.
      There is an argument that Sir Leitch sold off the shops in 07, but he sure continues to get personal mileage from the brand.

      I had a lot of empathy for Peter Leitch during his cancer illness, and as a league fan know of some of the small kindnesses and donations he made that were not publically trumpeted.

      His endorsement of ShonKey is a schmooze too far for me however. The kiwi attitude of not knocking ‘benevolent’ wealthy people is false, philanthropy is usually tinged with self aggrandisement, naming rights and “aw shucks”ism. I wonder how many of the tories defending Sir ’Mad now have ever bought one of his low to medium quality meat packs? I have always avoided the chain apart from the original shop due to the meat, but it filled a market gap for sure if you chart the working class areas the shops are consistently sited in.

      ’Mad is entitled to an opinion but so are the rest of us.

      • Anthony 5.1.1

        Yeah but our opinions don’t create negative stories in the paper taking the spotlight off National’s massive screw ups.

  6. SukieDamson 6

    I see John Key has his Election Posters on sale.

  7. mikesh 7

    JK’s promise to try to get Coronation Street moved back to its original time slot seems a pretty blatant attempt to curry favour with the electorate. I doubt he even watches Coro, and probably wouldn’t understand it if he did.

    • I thought Key’s offer to interfere in TV programming was odd too. Coro rescheduling threats are keep coming up – it could be just a cunning way to get the oldies back to watching it some more.

      Key would do more goods trying to get TVNZ to show something worth watching.

      • Vicky32 7.1.1

        it could be just a cunning way to get the oldies back to watching it some more.

        Er, not all Coro fans are old! My 25 year old niece and her friends are serious watchers..

    • millsy 7.2

      The irony is that it is his government’s scrapping of the Charter and its instructions for TVNZ to focus on the profit motive most probably contributed to it (though it could be argued that this goes back to 1988 when TVNZ lost its public service mandate — quality declined from there on in).

      This is the concequence of a removal of any form of public service mandate from TVNZ – more cheffing shows (and Snookie), and less quality drama and documentaries.

      • mikesh 7.2.1

        Apart from Coronation Street, does TV1 have anything worth watching these days?

        • millsy

          That’s why I had to cross over to the dark side and get sky. Now I pay $70 a month for 100-odd channels of nothing worth watching 🙂

        • Vicky32

          Apart from Coronation Street, does TV1 have anything worth watching these days?

          It does occasionally, but they don’t exactly promote their good stuff, it’s more a mattter of chance discovering it..

    • Carol 7.3

      Isn’t TVNZ still NZ’s state-supported broadcaster? What is the current position on the government attempting to interfere with or influence the daily operations of TVNZ channels?

      • millsy 7.3.1

        TVNZ has no public service mandate. The only thing it has to do is make a profit and pay a dividend under the SOE Act 1986. The fact that it is state owned is inconsequential.

  8. Frederick 8

    I am currently travelling overseas (in Helsinki at moment). Therefore I am accessing “The Standard” on an irregular basis.

    Perhaps I misunderstand what “The Standard” represents. I thought with the election approaching this would be a forum for informing me on labour policies and how they were going in the election run up (who is perforning well, who is not, is the strategy correct etc). What do I get reading the last few weeks posts – Key this, National that …same old,same old (I appreciate your contributors have a pathological hatred of Key) …..but when if ever are you going to discuss anything labour (even when attacking National, discuss labour alternative policy)

    Now maybe the sole reason for your blog is to attack National and any labour policy or actions undertaken by their representatives are largely irrelevant. If so perhaps someone could confirm this.

    I write this as reading the Guardian recently (slightly left wing English newspaper) I was reminded how good this paper is. Supportive of labour but frequently critical of policy and party members (especially of the Blair govt) and resonable in assessing other parties (sympathetic to Lib Dems) including Tory govt. Why can’t The Standard at least aspire to this occasionally or have I missed the point – labour cheer leaders whose sole mission is to attack National/Act

    [lprent: You have indeed missed the point of the site in both what you think we should do and what you think we are supporting.

    Read the about which explains who we are. It is a site authored by various people from the broad labour movement. Only a few (like me) are also members of the Labour party. The most common point of agreement between us is that we don’t like the right and its policies.

    We do report Labours policies and the Greens and anyone elses that we are interested in (including Nationals when we find some amongst the PR). But if you really want to look at Labours policies, then try Red Alert. Also look at No Right Turn for a more general left policy basis.

    It is nice that you compare us to the Guardian, but they are a news outlet, whereas we are an opinion outlet for the authors and commentators. Quite a different style of operation and at a massively different scale. ]

  9. The Voice of Reason 9

    Memo 310911
    From: CT, Wgtn
    To: Saturday Shift
    Re: Operation Big Butch
    In response to various requests I can confirm that all work today is on your normal hourly rate, not T1.5 for the first 3 hours and double time thereafter. You’re not in the bloody union Anthony, so don’t push it.
    Thank you for your response to Thursday’s operation Free Speech. Contacting Campbell Larsen’s employer was a stroke of genius, should shut him up in the future. Please note, that in the event that the Warriors lose tomorrow, it was as a result of the coach’s failure to listen to PMJK. A win is of course attributed to PMJK’s changing shed speech before the game.
    That is all.

  10. millsy 10

    Is it just me or has Brian Edwards lost the plot in his old age. I’ve just been permanently banned from his blog because I dared challenged him on his views about certain things.

    • Joe Bloggs 10.1

      Nah, it’s just you and your putrescent cant.

    • The Voice of Reason 10.2

      To be fair to Edwards, it wasn’t him that banned you. As your comment has been deleted, it’s hard to know whether you overstepped the mark or not, so perhaps you should outline what you said. Calling BE a Victorian prude earlier on was probably not wise, but I doubt it was for that!

      • millsy 10.2.1

        I just challenged him on some of his social views, and the fact that he thinks that a teacher calling a 14 year old girl she ‘looked like a slut’ is somehow acceptable. Its really stuck in my craw since.

        • Morrissey

          Don’t worry, millsy, you’re not the only one to incur the wrath of Brian Edwards. A few months back, the good doctor censored a transcript of mine because it “potentially libeled” that piece of self-regarding trash Paul Holmes.

    • lprent 10.3

      Whilst moderating earlier, I had cause to add a note on your comment for behavior. Perhaps you need to look closer to home for a reason?

  11. Hilary 11

    We really need some political satire on public television in this country as we are in an insidious bullying environment where no one is allowed to speak ill of certain public figures or ‘icons’. Anyone daring to criticise is accused of somehow being unpatriotic. For me, this is the first step towards totalitarianism. It shows, for the safety of our democracy, that these people are ripe for satirising, and at the least criticism and questioning. These people include:

    the PM
    the Mad Butcher
    the All Blacks including the very well paid ‘stars’
    several cabinet ministers including Joyce, Tolley, Bennett, Brownlee, McCully

    For example: you can just imagine the PM as some delirious clown cuddling up to the cleaver- waving, bling-ridden Mad Butcher. The cabinet ministers could be portrayed as a gang of school bullies.

    But there is no funding for such entertainment, and in the vacuum they are left to behave as caricatures of themselves.

    • Farrien Denton 11.1

      We do have political satire in this country.

      [lprent: Jumping pseudonyms requires that one of us has to release it from first time moderation. Eventually we stop making the effort and start filing them in spam. ]

    • Brett Dale 11.2

      You cant have political satire anymore, aunty helen made sure of that.

    • handle 11.3

      The ‘vacuum’ is a credible left-wing opposition movement, not television entertainment. Attacking the mad butcher is just the latest example of stupidity.

    • Joe Bloggs 11.4

      Go on Hilary – clearly you’re in the mood for Fentonesque satire – have a go at Sir Peter Blake. Why not have a go at knocking Sir Ed Hilary?

      How about some pearls of ‘wisdom’ from Mills? Or that cockhole Larsen?

      That’d be in keeping with the tone set by the emetic liberal-left this last week.

      • Hilary 11.4.1

        Sir Ed is a bit of a hero of mine, but he was also human and so was not perfect. He did have the wisdom to realise that himself.

      • millsy 11.4.2

        Mr Bloggs called Mr Larsen a cockhole and then complains about how nasty the right are. Rather like the school bully reacting with indignation when his victim bloodies his nose.

        • millsy

          Sorry I mean, how nasty the left are…

        • Joe Bloggs

          Oh cry me a river Millsy – I’ve been called far worse on this site, for saying far less offensive things that pondscum Larsen did…

          But I’ve never wished death on anyone, least of all someone who’s contributed as much to the working class as Peter Leitch.

          Scratch the surface Millsy and you’ll find a whole heap of people from both sides of the political fence who are disgusted at Fenton, Walls, Larsen and that ilk for what they’ve said.

          • Tiger Mountain

            Sir Mad’s stores sold low to medium grade meat products to people at the bottom of the food chain, literally. He became a philanthropist and a walking brand. Facing your own mortality can change people. 80s unionist Rob Campbell jumped the fence after his brush with a nasty cancer, maybe the Butcher did likewise, more likely maybe he is just naive politically, the alternative is not attractive.

          • mickysavage

            You are trolling Joe Bloggs.  You call Larsen pond scum and then protest indignantly about someone saying something not very nice.

            So transparent, so hypocritical, so trollish … 

          • Vicky32

            who are disgusted at Fenton, Walls, Larsen and that ilk for what they’ve said.

            Leaving the others out of it, for goodness’ sake, what did Fenton say that was so bad? Really?

        • Farrien Denton

          Isn’t telling the truth a absolute defense vs defamation ?

          Mr Larsen is clearly a cockhole………… or perhaps he is a cunt ?

      • Campbell Larsen 11.4.3

        You only get flack when you are flying over the target.

        Wassa matter bloggs, worried about something? You attempts to discredit or provoke me in this juvenile fashion are starting to look pretty damn desperate.

        • Farrien Denton

          You only get flack when you are flying over the target.


          • Campbell Larsen

            Thanks for the free promotion : )

            • Farrien Denton

              Wouldn’t it be ironic if you were picked up to do an add for National or the Mad Butcher chain.

              [lprent: I don’t think he is an accountant. Perhaps you meant ‘ad’, which itself is short for advertisement. But such complexities are (alas) beyond you. This clown has now been banned for being an idiot troll who writes comments agreeing with his other identity. ]

          • The Voice of Reason

            Can somebody delete the above comment/ban this idiot? One git contacting Cambell’s employer is bad enough, but publicising his workplace is an invitation to the various whackjobs that lurk here to have a go as well, when the matter is completely unrelated to his employment.

            [lprent: He was permanently banned earlier in the moderation sweep for being an idiot troll. In particular for using a second identity to support himself. ]

        • hawk

          Larsen I very much doubt if his posts will ever look as desperate as a person wishing death on another human.

          As Leitch, Fenton and yourself included are held accountable by their words you can never back down on your stupid staement about Leitchs death.

          I will also make a stupid statement and suggest to you if I ever see you in public I will plant one right mug and you can spit some teeth out, ps Hayden Mahoney is the name so you it proves that i will stand up to foolish words as well.

          • millsy

            Now we see the good old fashioned Tory tactic of threatening violence.

          • The Voice of Reason

            Bit early to be on the piss, Hayden. Good luck with your anger management issues though.

            • hawk

              Thank you Voice of reason, not partaking of drink at the moment. However i really think it demonstrates the “he said so I can say” type of debate that seems to be used by many in here.

              Millsy yes I was threatening violence which you seem to think is very bad and a standard technique, however it is a threat not a wish of death. There is a difference there.
              I am in no way saying my words were correct however if a person wishes death on another person then they do need to be receptive to emotive responses in reply.

          • Pete George

            Bashing is not the way to resolve anything like this, it just plants one bad credit on another.

            Campbell, your reputation has spread around the blogs quite a bit, and yeah, it’s hard to escape Google. If you stand by what you’ve said and accept any repercussions that’s your choice.

            • Campbell Larsen

              So I should apologize or else I deserve whatever I get? Is that what you are saying?
              This little ‘incident’ is starting to reveal just how far some people are prepared to go to supress political commentary.
              If butcher is the great guy that people say he is wouldnt he be horrified to know that abuse and threats of violence are being levelled on his behalf at someone who is only having their say.
              The haters here seem to think that he would want me beaten up or abused – doesn’t that make them the ones that are bringing sir Peter into disrepute?

              • It’s not about suppressing political commentary, it’s expressing opinions on someone’s commentary. Has anyone tried to stop you saying or posting anything?

                You can say or post what you like, and people can respond as they see fit, as long as the moderators allow it.

                One of the things about the internet is that spur of the moment comments are in effect permanently recorded and available worldwide. More than a few will be caught out by that, sometimes a long time later.

                • Campbell Larsen

                  Spur of the moment comment – that is precisely why all this supposed outrage is so ridiculous – if only my wishes were enough to change the world.
                  The discussion that followed was helpful in advancing peoples understanding of celebrity endorsement and the role it is likely to play in this election – not everyone wants that discussion to occur – that is why I have been subjected to such abuse.

                  • I think people were offended by what you said, they weren’t trying to stop the following discussion. Hawk has realised his comments were over the top and inappropriate and followed up with a full apology – good for him for doing that – and you are still trying to divert blame to others “shutting down comment” and trying to pass the outrage off as ridiculous.

                    Try taking some real responsibility for what you posted. Sir Peter is widely liked and admired, try and understand how offended many people have been.

                    I hope you can learn something from this., eventually

                    • Campbell Larsen

                      Whatever Pete – I’m not about to apologize because you think I should. Hawk is a psycho, retraction or no. There is no comparison between his threat and my comment.
                      What I have learnt from this is that Peter has some very foul mouthed OCD friends who like to troll on blogs – he really should find better friends.

                    • It’s not for me to think you should, your choice entirely whether you apologise or not, but if you keep blaming any subsequent kerfluffle on everyone and everything other than yourself donj’t be surprised if this keeps coming back to bite you on the bum.

                    • lprent

                      Sir Peter is widely liked and admired

                      By whom?

                      I really have no idea who he is apart from occasional advertising of meat and other business and self-promotion (none of which I ever found to be of any particular interest). I gather from what Helen has said at various times that he is a warriors fan.

                      But I have never seen him say or do anything of any note by my standards. But I learnt that his appearance on anything I was watching was time to change channels

                      Of course I have never watched much TV, sports, or read the drivel sections of print media, or listened to commercial radio.

                      Essentially to me he is a non-entity.

                    • By whom?

                      By ex Labour voters. The Labour Party risks becoming the non-entity.

                    • lprent []

                      What in the hell does that have to do with my comment? Just evidence that you’re a bit of vacuous loudmouth?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Pete George is worried about Labour becoming a “non entity”?

                      Dude you better look in the mirror and see what party you are standing for lol

                    • Hi Campbell.

                      Welcome to the world of RWNJs.  It is a bit like the borg.  The instruction goes out to divert attention from stuff like credit rating downgrades to stuff like … well anything.  The worst thing is that your comment was in terms of blogging quite mild, but this does nonstop the wing nuts from their faux angst.

                      You should see what Slater does.  He continuously abuses and insults people but anyone who does the same to him and he then complains about rough treatment.

                      Commiserations about the idiot who emailed your work.

                      I just wish that they would realise that the left want a contest of ideas, not a violent winner take all confrontation. 

              • hawk

                Mr Larsen I stand corrected and realise my comments to you were foolish and wrong. Threating violence is not a wise option and I was wrong to post in such a manner.
                I apoligise for my words and wish you the best in your future, I was not commenting on the political stance of yourself but rather the comments on a persons death.

                I would not carry out my threat to you and once again present my regret on my statement, I hope that by posting as you did you sufffer no ill fortune through the acts and words of others as I attempted to do you to. As they say two wrongs do not make a right, so I to will stand shamed for my ill thought out remarks.

          • Ianupnorth

            Had any luck Hawk?

            • hawk

              On none at all, such is life. LOL…

            • Vicky32

              Did you take it down Hawk? I got this when I followed the link… (I am registered with Badoo, although I don’t bother going there.)
              “Pagina non trovata
              La pagina che stai cercando potrebbe essere stata rimossa, rinominata o temporaneamente non disponibile.”
              (Page not found. The page you are looking for might have been removed or is temporarily not available).

              • hawk

                I did indeed and would like to thank Ianupnorth for alerting me to the fact that I was still listed as a registered. That coupled with the fact that it was able to be noticed by people with google.

                So a slight heads up that activites you do years ago unless closed down can be still traced. 🙂

                • Vicky32

                  So a slight heads up that activites you do years ago unless closed down can be still traced.

                  True! If I google my real name, the first hit is my having signed the condolence book for John Nathan Turner (Doctor Who producer who died in 2002 or thereabouts!) Not that I mind, but it’s far from the only thing I’ve done before or since.

                  • Carol

                    Worse still, when I google my name, I find stuff has been uploaded with my name attached related to activities long before the advent of the http://WWW... from the 1960s. This includes class photos from the 60s, uploaded to one of those old friends sites, with every member of the class in the photo named. Why on earth does the person who uploaded this think that any of us wanted that kind of public visibility?

                    • Vicky32

                      Why on earth does the person who uploaded this think that any of us wanted that kind of public visibility?

                      They just think “well, I don’t mind, so why should they?”. My son has been very firm with me, that I must not put photos of anyone without their express permission, so all my Facebook photos are of those family members who either have given permission or are beyond asking (dead and gone.) No school photos! 🙂

  12. Hilary 12

    Some of the comments on this thread are so politically correct – meaning the only political stance that is correct (or allowed) is that of the current right wing administration.

  13. myspace 13

    Yay more votes to switch to the Greens due to the incompetent Labour clowns thinking that the left vote belongs to them, fancy attacking the Mad Butcher, the words pathetic and vacuous spring to mind.

    Keep going Labour supporters, self destruction is a beautiful thing to watch.

    As a green supporter I thank you…

  14. handle 14

    Feeling righteous does not serve working class New Zealanders. Every time there has been any progress sticking it to this government over their bad management of the economy, some dickhead like Mallard, Curran or Fenton plants their foot firmly in their mouth. Cheered on by fools.

    • Jum 14.1


      Maybe the intelligent New Zealanders intending to vote this 26 November will have read the real back stories and will not be swayed by celebrity vote.

      As one of those ‘fools’ you have accused of ‘cheering’ people on, I would prefer to use my freedom of expression rights still available to me as and when I please, not when you please.

      Sometimes it is more important to have a say than stay silent when so many Key-paid crosby textor ringins are attacking.

      Freedom of speech will always be my thing, and I will continue to say that when people like Peter Leitch in 2008 said he didn’t get involved in politics because Helen Clark was the current Prime Minister, yet deliberately politicises his intended vote for Key in 2011, and several posters have steadfastly maintained that he also used his illness for the sympathy vote for Key, I have the right to call his actions hypocritical, irresponsible and reprehensible.

      It is also important to remind the populace, that seem to have very short memories, of the vicious, lying attacks on Helen Clark in the leadup to the 2008 election. I haven’t forgotten. That remark of Campbell Larsen was nothing compared to that time when New Zealand politics and religion, thanks to the rightwing parties, drove New Zealand to the baser part of its underbelly when a woman politician became our Prime Minister and a centre-left one at that. That savage ugliness is rearing its head again this year.

      You see, this year is very important to the neo-conservatives; it will be the moment, if Key makes it back in, to put the final touches to the sell off of New Zealand and open up the surrounding environment to the mineral hunters, the oil searchers and everything else that will damage my beloved country, with greed the only motivator – jobs being such a small number and the financial benefit to all New Zealanders minute – the future environmental damage irreversible.

      How this election eventuates will inform me better than anything else just how many braincells people have got when it comes to making their decisions based on policy or PR. I don’t mean on Key or Goff. I mean on the future impact of both left and right policies and that is always to be examined alongside the influences on left and right and the teams of left and right.

  15. Jum 16

    I’m interested in what these trades academy places are that Anne Tolley is talking about?

    Have the NActs shut down one successful way of teaching skills for another ‘same’ under a different name, costing us all a mint and achieving nothing new but slowing down progress?

    • KJT 16.1

      The first trades academy type classes were individual school initiatives, which started before National was in power.

      Tech teachers concentrating on BCITO, BCATS and other pre trade qualifications is not new.

      • Jum 16.1.1


        Thank you very much for that information.


        • Jum


          I found this site:

          (BUILD October/November 2007)

          the piece was published in 2007.

          I looked at the completion figures quoted on page 3 and while they were low, at that time there was low unemployment and the mainly up to 25 years participants (61%) would have been changing employment/training not realising the world was going to fall in.

          Also, that graph was reflecting 2006 figures.

          I will quote a little from it which shows how much was being done for youth in 2007.

          After consultation with the education sector and industry, the BCITO established that there was a need in schools for a construction industry ‘taster’ course. As a result, the Building, Construction and Allied Trade Skills (BCATS) initiative has been developed – two new entry level qualifications being introduced by the BCITO and BETA Group (Built Environment Training Alliance) for year 11 and 12 students.

          The qualifications give students an array of skills that can be applied across a broad spectrum of construction sector areas. On top of the newly developed BCATS unit standards that are construction specific, the qualifications will integrate with core areas of the school curriculum and NCEA. By providing construction-related examples in a number of core subjects, they will encourage maths (for example) to be taught in the classroom as well as being reinforced in the workshop.

          The BCITO is working with schools throughout the country and aims to roll out the BCATS qualifications in 2008.

          Providing an introduction at school to a career in the building and construction industry helps young people to make informed decisions about a career path. They can then enter an apprenticeship with a strong grounding – an attractive proposition for future employers. ‘

          I’ve looked up BCITO’s current website; at first sighting it appears they didn’t exist before National appointed them to run the trades academies… until I found this further on:

          talking about Gateway.

          • KJT

            I was teaching BCAT’s on practicum in 2008. Both schools had been doing similar programs, for quite a few years before, for engineering and motor trades.

            ITO’s were first set up in 1992, I think. Part of “Modern Apprenticeships”.

            The building and construction ITO was one of the first.

            Schools were using ITO materials previously for tech students.

            • Jum


              I guess what I am trying to say here is that I and many others are sick of name changing and complaining about a programme that carries on the same under another political party but with a different name; it costs money, people lose faith and youth most importantly feel used.

              Can you tell me what is happening now?

              I was also encouraged to find a site about Morrinsville College’s plans for years 12 and 13 re transition studies and in general studies to suit all students. Maybe the teachers, parents and school boards are working together on behalf of their students, sons/daughters for a better outcome. That would be nice.

              • KJT

                These are actually requirements from the new New Zealand curriculum.

                Which was the result of years of consultation, research and reference to worldwide best practice.

                Unlike National standards, which was a knee jerk by ideological politicians. And conflicts with most of what we know about effective education.

                IEP’s (Individual education plans), to suit students strengths and needs are required for all students.

                The ITO and NCEA standards need a good tidy up to meet the new curriculum requirements, as most were written before the curriculum was adopted. This is now in progress. So long as it is not identified for funding cuts.

                Trade academy type classes, at least in the schools I have been involved in, are working well. However they have existed for a long time now. Were just called Technology classes in:. Automotive, Engineering, Furniture etc.

                Schools get a little annoyed when politicians take credit for things which were initiatives by schools and their communities.

                • Jum

                  KJT said: ‘Schools get a little annoyed when politicians take credit for things which were initiatives by schools and their communities.’

                  I’ll bet they do!

  16. Treetop 17

    I noticed that when Heatley was interviewed on The Nation this morning he did not disclose to the country that there was an income formula.

    Due to being on the Housing New Zealand list I thought that I would go and look at some of the places that I could be offered. I spoke to a person on NZ super who has been in a HNZ 1 bedroom for two decades. The following is a summary of what I was told.

    HNZ don’t listen.
    People walk through the complex and they don’t live here.
    There is no fencing.
    There was a home invasion a few months ago and a woman was beaten up.
    A car window was broken last week.
    A rough guy lives there, he is on his last chance and his mates stay over and sometimes their pit bulls roam.
    Stereos are heard all the time.
    Bottles are smashed.
    One lady moved out because she could not take the addiction problems.

    My other observations
    One complex is really untidy and families live there.
    The properties are close together.
    The weeds are over grown.
    Rubbish is not picked up.
    Old couches are in carports.

    HNZ need to supply every six months a huge bin for dumping rubbish and another bin for weeds as a lot of people cannot afford to dispose of rubbish.

    Now that the most poor, unwell and aged (providing they meet the income formula) could be housed, I fear that social problems are going to escalate and ghettos (cramping, people living in fear who easily become angered) is the future HNZ.

    Heatley is going to subdivide larger properties. For now no one is being turfed out of their HNZ property, no doubt this will occur after the election if National gets back in. The average income for a person in a HNZ property is the minimum wage and where does Heatley think they can afford to live.

  17. logie97 18

    This item of news contradicts the folklore that builds around institutions.
    V8 Supercars to race at Whenuapai.

    Anyone who has played a round of golf on the RNZAF golf course, which runs outside the runways of the military base, will know that if you hit a ball anywhere near the runway you will be subject to prosecution for trespass. Theory has it that there are apparently people on 24 hour surveillance patrol.

    And suddenly the runways (through ministerial assent – no doubt as a result of
    John’ll-fix-it intervention) are going to be opened up for at least 72 hours for a load of petrol heads to wander around at will.

    Well, who would have thought it?

    • Ianupnorth 18.1

      Hey, it’s the North Shore; hopefully Ben can get in and put a dampner on this drivel. What’s wrong with using Hampton Downs or Taupo?

      • logie97 18.1.1

        Yeah but there are a hell of lot of petrol heads out there in the west and Whenuapai borders John’ll-fix-it’s electorate. Paula could do with a fillip as well.

        Do you remember the protestations from the NATs when Waitakere wanted to push for this to become a commercial airport? “No this is a strategic defensive piece and must remain so…” Ah, well.

  18. Colonial Viper 19

    I see the bloody useless NZ Herald has got a story on the Warrior’s late Sonny Fai as the number one news story most affecting New Zealand this afternoon.

    Fucking ingrates posing as media journalism.

    • Jum 19.1

      Colonial Viper,

      In the final countdown you cannot wholly blame the media for printing what the mainstream NZers want.

      They still seem happy to read the ‘stuff’ that the same type of people who paid for murder victim’s phones to be hacked… are continuing to spew out.

      I would happily sue them but nobody wants to support that – yet.

      • Colonial Viper 19.1.1

        I see the sense in what you are saying but surely just one media channel could pitch their wares at the large group of New Zealanders who would like to see some substantial news analysis and coverage.

        • Jum

          Colonial Viper – agree 100 per cent.

          Unfortunately, our journalists aren’t that principled and our television stations aren’t that objective and the average New Zealander really doesn’t give a shit.

          Sorry – I wish I could share better news.

          PS Channel 7 did that – sort of, but Key is getting rid of it. No one is marching in the street and it appears that Russell Brown has been bought and sold…

          I hope people fight Key’s smiling fascism before it is too late.

      • Draco T Bastard 19.1.2

        In the final countdown you cannot wholly blame the media for printing what the mainstream NZers want.

        Actually, we can. Their job isn’t to give what people want but what they need which is credible and reliable information at which our MSM completely fails.

        • Jum

          Draco T Bastard,

          True; that is the utopian New Zealand thinking.

          Unfortunately, the owners of media don’t want New Zealanders to live the good life because their profits are all that matters and people want to buy those papers that tell them lies. I know you want to believe the best of New Zealanders but quite frankly, Draco T Bastard, those honourable New Zealanders no longer exist in any great number. Why do you think Key got voted in on a smile and a bribe of undelivered $50 tax cuts?

          • handle

            Your contempt for voters is irresponsible.

            • Jum

              No handle, just a sad understanding from going through the fallout of almost two elections now that tells me people can not believe that John Key could possibly be the massive disappointment he will be.

              Also, that the governments including Douglas, Richardson and Key/Douglas have fed people the line that greed is good and objective judgement, critical analysis of policy from parties is bad and celebrity endorsement is all a government needs to run a country.

              Your continued indictment of one poster that chooses to air their own opinion is now beginning to worry me. Who are you and what are your reasons for attacking my freedom to have an opinion. We can go on with this ‘conversation’ as long as you like but I generally like to have a useful debate; so far you are not providing that.

            • Colonial Viper

              Your contempt for voters is irresponsible.


              • Jum

                On her 8.08pm message it was: “Your contempt for voters is unappealing.” What’s with this person?

                My hope is that people will actually concentrate on what is being perpetrated by government upon them. She/he could better spend their time telling Key that his contempt for voters is irresponsible/unappealing.

  19. Di 20

    Rihanna’s emergency bikini wax is news (TV1, Stuff) but Occupy Wall Street doesn’t get a mention? Shame on our news media.

    • Brett Dale 20.1


      No MSM is covering the wall street protests it would seem.

      If it got to be a million people, then they might.

      • Colonial Viper 20.1.1

        If it got to be a million people, then they might.

        How about 46 million people on Food Stamps.

        Is that enough, or is the MSM going to ignore all of them too?

  20. Hilary 21

    Easily a million, and millions more globally in support. In several US cities already and starting to spread to Australia. Tomorrow sees a new push.The flashmob in Queens Street today is a hint that it could even reach NZ.

  21. This was covered by the Dompost today,

    “Navy marches through Wellington”

    This was not – except on the National Radio website,

    “March against police surveillance bill”

    I have an acquaintance of mine – “Al”, an ACT supporter of all things! – who took part in the march. He was handed a loudspeaker and he started chanting some pretty good anti-government slogans.

    There’s hope for “Al” yet!

    As for the meainstream media not convering the protest… shameful! (I’ll have more on my blog soon. Just waiting for some pics to arrive.)

  22. Dianne 23

    The Labour MP’s are nothing but a pack of nutters. Imagine having a crowd like that running the country. Thank god for the John Key’s of this world. The national government have kept this country stable, and I hate to think what it would of been like at this stage with the Labour halfwits. The way Darien Fenton and Louisa Wall have put down Peter Leitch is nothing short of disgusting, Phil Goff should be ashamed of himself for allowing types like that out of the kennel.

    • Adele 23.1


      At one time it was okay for the rich and powerful to fete the politician, and what flowed from that relationship was generally considered of no ill effect. The Prime Minister could also be seen in the company of the successfully wealthy and even be ‘matesy’ with the monied without both coming across as sycophantic or the relationship thought ill advised. And then there was ‘murdoch-gate’ where the relationships were exposed for what they truly were – avenues for corruption.

      I have been in the company of the mad butcher, I have even masticated on his meat. He is a decent man – not a god above reproach.

      People have every right to criticise the relationship or to make disparaging remarks about the mad butcher or anyone else they an issue with – its called free speech. Dislike the nature of the free speech but it is completely ‘nutty’ from a democratic perspective to not defend the right to free speech no matter how offensive it is found on a personal level. A democracy demands no less.

      • Vicky32 23.1.1

        I have been in the company of the mad butcher, I have even masticated on his meat. He is a decent man – not a god above reproach.

        Adele, your wording makes me think of MB’s radio advert, the squickiest jingle in creation … “You can’t beat/The Mad Butcher’s meat”… It’s not just  on commercial radio, it’s on the BBC WS! (Which has adverts now, and has for maybe the past 2 years, though not on Sundays!) 🙂

    • Yeah, Dianne, because Labour didn’t leave this country $16.7 billion in debt; borrowing $380 million a week; cutting taxes twice, when we couldn’t afford it; and seeing unemployment double in three years. No, it was National who achieved that.

      Thank god for the John Keys of this world, huh?

      So far, this is the debt John Key is leaving us:

      And this has been John Key’s legacy in job creation:


      • mik e 23.2.1

        Frank its $77billion National are borrowing to buy this election $18 billion a year they are borrowing Dianne interest going up by $600 million really stable i suppose with a personality like yours you could call it stable in the same sort as the Greek stable.

    • mik e 23.3

      Dianne foreman I presume

    • Dianne I find it even more disgusting that you should suggest that two respected female Labour MPs are dogs.

      Care to apologise? 

      • Pete George 23.4.1

        Double standards Greg? Do you remember posting:

        “The worst thing is that your comment was in terms of blogging quite mild, but this does nonstop the wing nuts from their faux angst.”

        • mickysavage

          Do you remember posting:
          “The worst thing is that your comment was in terms of blogging quite mild, but this does nonstop the wing nuts from their faux angst.”

          Yes Pete

          There is a typo and the sentence is a bit non sensical.

          I meant to say

          The worst thing is that your comment was in terms of blogging quite mild, but this does not stop the wing nuts from their faux angst 

          And I am struggling to understand your criticism.  Dianne whoever he or she is jumps up and down about a rather muted criticism of Leitch and then essentially calls a couple of Labour MPs dogs.  I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of this.

          If you can point out where I have criticised Leitch you might have a point but I am certain that you will not be able to do so. 

          • Pete George

            I’ll spell it out.

            You find it “disgusting that you should suggest that two respected female Labour MPs are dogs.”
            (Actual statement: “Phil Goff should be ashamed of himself for allowing types like that out of the kennel.” which I think is certainly over the top)

            And you refer to wishing death on someone as “a rather muted criticism of Leitch”.

            • Campbell Larsen

              Pete George – defending and celebrating the abusive, threatening bullies on blogs.

              My ‘retraction’ was posted long ago:
              “Obviously I don’t actually wish him an untimely death – after all it’s not like I was threatening to catapult a bus onto him – chortle -”

              There will not be an apology.

              Stop wasting peoples time and trying my patience.

            • mickysavage

              Oh Pete 

              1.  Saying that Goff let the two MPs “out of the kennel” is suggesting they are dogs.

              2.  You have taken my comment out of context.  I said that the comment “was in terms of blogging quite mild” and I stand by that.  Just check out the sewer.

              3.  Please point out where I used the words “a rather muted criticism of Leitch”.   I cannot find it and I am pretty sure I did not use these words.

    • Colonial Viper 23.5

      Phil Goff should be ashamed of himself for allowing types like that out of the kennel.

      If you want to imply someone is a bitch Dianne, please look in the mirror.

    • Jum 23.6

      If you are Dianne Foreman, and it sounds exactly like something she would say, you are exactly what keeps women in a subordinate position. I can see why you would want that, given your subordinate position to Don Brash and co, and also as a rotundtable associate, not allowed at the big table of the boys. Still, many National supporter women have stated that there shouldn’t be so many women in parliament which proves the point about NAct women wanting men to make their decisions for them and play the weak little females – pathetic.

      We know, if you are Dianne Foreman, that you are as cunning as your phallic symbol John Key, in e.g. arranging special fundraising dinners where rich businessmen in Tower and Talley, etc. the business thieves of the rotundtable that are slavering at the lips over the prospect of finally owning all our precious all-New Zealander-owned assets, tobacco barons helped by the Matthew Hootens and Owen Glenns of New Zealand lobbying to deliberately damage New Zealanders’ health, especially so many young Maori women, under most stress in this society, give John Key and NAct lots of cash because they will get to privatise everything at fire sale prices that once belonged to all-New Zealanders.

      Still keeping up Dianne? – Long sentence I know but the list of crimes against you pondscum is growing ever longer. Eventually more New Zealanders will start taking some responsibility in finding this out for themselves. Meanwhile The Standard is doing their work for them. Eventually more New Zealanders will begin to understand what they are sacrificing for their 30 pieces of gold.

      Also, you won some business award with your icecream, which is enough to make anyone scream. It was soon after the fundraising dinner and the election you helped Key to win – payback for you. You may actually be a good entrepreneur but when you sell yourself to your particular ‘devil’ – in this case Key – it will never be clear why you won. It doesn’t seem to matter though where greed is involved.

      She’s a private hospital owner and will be looking to gain wealth at the expense of New Zealanders when the health system is privatised.

      And, if you, ‘Dianne’ are not Dianne Foreman, fine. Being Dianne Foreman is not a compliment and my sincere apologies for thinking you were.

      But, I’ve been wanting to say this to Dianne Foreman for a very long time – she’s a disgrace to a New Zealand of social equity. She is a greedy elitist and and she will operate behind the scenes to bring people of the same low calibre of humanity into positions of power and affluence.

      That will automatically exclude 90% of New Zealanders from the lifestyle that they work hard to gain and therefore deserve.

    • kriswgtn 23.7

      thats SO fukdup

  23. Colonial Viper 24

    Dan Carter out of entire RWC

    That can’t be good.

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    Its Suffrage Day, the 126th anniversary of women winning the right to vote (but not stand in elections) in New Zealand. And to celebrate, the government has bought Kate Sheppard's house in Christchurch:The government has bought Kate Sheppard's former home in Christchurch for more than $4 million. The Ilam villa ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change: Ostracising the coal-burners
    The UN climate summit is happening in new York next week, and unlike previous years, coal-burners and denier-states are not being invited to speak:Leading economies such as Japan and Australia will not be invited to speak at next week’s crunch UN climate change summit, as their continued support for coal ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Jojo Tamihere Salutes Herr Goff.
    Get Back Jojo! The elation in Mayor Phil Goff’s camp may be easily imagined as they watched social media light up in indignation at challenger John Tamihere’s "Sieg Heil to that" quip. Just when JT’s notoriously right-wing, sexist and homophobic stains were beginning to fade back into his ‘colourful’ past, ...
    2 days ago
  • Hard News: A fun but flawed weed documentary
    Patrick Gower is good value when he's high. Not that I've ever, you know, got stoned with him. But in the second part of his documentary Patrick Gower on Weed, he does what you'd expect in a modern weed documentary and immerses himself – first with a doctor, then a ...
    2 days ago
  • Candidate Survey: Western Bay of Plenty – Local Body Elections 2019
    We surveyed candidates on their attitudes to issues facing the Western Bay Region, find out what they think: “Closing the Gap” Tauranga, one of the area groups of Income Equality Aotearoa NZ Inc., has surveyed all candidates in the three local body elections to discover attitudes to some basic issues ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 days ago
  • Project Nettie calls on scientists to defend biology
    Please spread widely, and sign, to support science and rationalism over the new irrationalism sweeping universities and institutions.  PROJECT NETTIE Sexual reproduction, the generation of offspring by fusion of genetic material from two different individuals, evolved over 1 billion years ago. It is the reproductive strategy of all higher animals ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • I’m glad I don’t live in Auckland
    Just when I was thinking that Palmerston North's mayoral race (which includes a convicted child molester / public wanker and a convicted child beater) was the worst in the country, Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere opened his mouth:Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere is being slammed for using the words "sieg ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Index of Power Update, 2018-19: China #2
    We reprint below an article from the excellent website the Economics of Imperialism by Tony Norfield This is an update of the statistics for my Index of Power, using data for 2018-19 and discussing what a country’s ranking reflects. The major change is that China’s rank has shifted up and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change: A history lesson
    Why is New Zealand climate change policy so crap? The Herald this morning has a long article on the twists and turns of climate change policy in New Zealand [paywalled / depaywall script], which shows where we've been. The short version is that the government first began worrying about this ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • What the All Blacks Mean to Us
    The All Blacks have been, for more than a century, arguably the most successful International sports team in the world. But they are more than that; even for those Kiwis who are immune to the charms of rugby (and there are more than a few), the All Blacks are ambassadors ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    3 days ago
  • No one is born into the wrong body
    A short and incredibly powerful speech from a young lesbian woman. No one is born in the wrong body. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • Contempt
    Back in June, the UK Court of Appeal ruled that that country's continued arms sales to Saudi Arabia were unlawful. So you'd expect that the UK government stopped approving them, right?Of course not:The government has apologised for breaching a court ruling against the sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Covering up the cover-up
    Yesterday NZDF officials were put on the stand about the lies they had told over Operation Burnham, making implausible claims that it was all a big mistake. But along the way, we learned they had already been put on the spot about it by a previous Defence Minister, who had ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Not as important as they think they are
    Farmers have been whining a lot lately, about the methane targets in the Zero Carbon Bill, about Canterbury's proposed nitrogen limits, and about the government's new proposals to stop them from shitting in our lakes and rivers. These policies are "throwing farmers under the tractor", they will force farmers off ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Behind Every Good Woman Should Stand – Another Good Woman.
    Alone, Alone, All, All, Alone: To argue that the Prime Minister is the victim of her advisers’ failure to keep her informed may offer Jacinda some measure of exoneration – but only at the cost of casting her as a hopeless political ingénue. A star-dusted muppet, whose only purpose is to ...
    4 days ago
  • Poor quality, poorly educated kiddie ‘Journalists’ spreading fake news
    In times of hysteria about the “World coming to an end” and “rising sea levels” so-called ‘Journalists’ who can barely spell words longer than four letters are having a ball! Though the majority of the Public have worked out that manmade climate change is nothing short of pseudo-science, and the ...
    An average kiwiBy
    4 days ago
  • Chris Trotter on the BFD
    I don't want to give pblicity to certain parts of the internet that are better left to fester in their own irrelevance (I know, a bit like this place) but the listing of Chris Trotter as a 'author' on Cameron Slater's spinoff website, the BFD requires some explanation.Now, I don't ...
    4 days ago
  • Sex is not a spectrum
    The text below is a Twitter thread by Heather Heying that explains the essence of sexual reproduction and it long evolutionary history. She is an evolutionary biologist and a “professor-in-exile” after she and her husband, Bret Weinstein, stood up to supporters of an enforced “Day of Absence” for white staff and teachers ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Climate Change: Trees, aviation, and offsets
    With crunch time for new Zealand climate policy approaching, most of the New Zealand media have got on board with a global reporting effort to cover the issue. There's one strand of stories today about polling and what it shows about changing public attitudes to the crisis, but the strand ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Pissing-Off The Israelis Is A High-Risk Strategy.
    Dangerous Foes: For those readers of Bowalley Road who feel disposed to dismiss any prospect of an Israeli destabilisation of New Zealand politics, the example of the United Kingdom repays close attention. Ever since the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the British Labour Party, the Israelis have sanctioned, funded and ...
    4 days ago
  • Something to go to in Wellington
    Make It 16, the youth-led campaign to lower New Zealand's voting age, is holding an official campaign launch at Parliament this Friday from 16:30. If you'd like to attend, you can register using EventBrite here. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • A founding member responds to Peace Action Wellington
    by Don Franks It was a lovely sunny Wellington afternoon with blue skies above  the beaches.  In Courtenay Place, political activists packed out a stuffy upstairs room for an important meeting. The assembled pacifists, anarchists, communists and independent young radicals of Peace Action Wellington felt the need for a mission ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • “Mistakes and errors”
    Current and former NZDF top brass are being publicly grilled this week by the hit and run inquiry over their public responses to allegations of civilian casualties. Previously, they've claimed there were no casualties, a position which led them to lie to Ministers and to the public. Now, they're saying ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • “Homosexuality is same-sex attraction and relationships, not heterosexuals with delusions of gende...
    by Rafael D. Quiles (gender-critical gay man from Puerto Rico) The writing on the wall is right in people’s faces and people just don’t see it or don’t want to. What could actually possess a heterosexual male to want to feminize himself and claim that he is a lesbian? Because ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    5 days ago
  • Trump: “Where’s my favourite dictator?”
    From the Wall Street Journal:Inside a room of the ornately decorated Hotel du Palais during last month’s Group of Seven summit in Biarritz, France, President Trump awaited a meeting with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. Mr. Trump looked over a gathering of American and Egyptian officials and called out in ...
    5 days ago
  • Magdalen Burns, 1983-2019, fighter for women’s liberation
    by the Redline blog collective At Redline we are very saddened to hear of the death of Magdalen Burns who passed away on the morning of Friday, September 13 (British time). Magdalen was a great fighter for the rights of women in general and lesbian women in particular, a defender ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • Parliament and the Executive
    The Brexit issue has certainly brought with it a series of apparently difficult constitutional issues, many of them concerning the respective roles of the executive and parliament. Most of them arise because of the unwillingness of MPs, despite their professions to the contrary, to be bound by a constitutional rarity ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    7 days ago
  • The Abigail Article; Martyn Bradbury’s Article, and My Response
    . . This blogpost is different to my usual format of reporting on issues… Since July 1011, I have blogged on a variety of political issues; near always political and/or environmental; mostly highly critical of the previous National Government. Other issues included Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and repression of ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    7 days ago
  • Police will have to wear silly Buckingham Palace hats from now on, says Police Minister
    Those close to the Police Minister believe the initiative may be the result of Nash “seeing a great deal” on AliExpress. In a move that comes seemingly out of nowhere, Police Minister Stuart Nash announced this afternoon that he expects all frontline staff to don bearskin hats, famously worn by ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • A sensible crackdown
    The government has released its Arms Legislation Bill, containing the second tranche of changes to gun laws following the March 15 massacre. And it all looks quite sensible: a national gun register, higher penalties for illegal possession and dealing, tighter restrictions on arms dealers and shooting clubs, and a shorter ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • California bans private prisons
    Private prisons are a stain on humanity. Prison operators explicitly profit from human misery, then lobby for longer prisons terms so they can keep on profiting. And in the US, prison companies run not only local and state prisons, but also Donald Trump's immigration concentration camps. Faced with this moral ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Why PPPs are a bad idea
    When National was in power, they were very keen on Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) - basicly, using private companies to finance public infrastructure as a way of hiding debt from the public. They were keen on using them for everything - roads, schools, hospitals. But as the UK shows, that "service" ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A Movement That No Longer Moves.
    Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...
    1 week ago
  • NZ ‘left’ politically embracing extreme postmodernism
    by Philip Ferguson Much of the left, even people who formally identify as marxists, have collapsed politically in the face of postmodern gender theory of the sort pioneered by American philosopher Judith Butler. For Butler even biological sex is socially constructed. “If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The obvious question
    The media is reporting that the (alleged) Labour party sexual assaulter has resigned from their job at Parliament, which means hopefully he won't be turning up there making people feel unsafe in future. Good. But as with everything about this scandal, it just raises other questions. Most significantly: why the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The moment I found out that you found out, I acted swiftly
    By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • This is why people hate property developers
    Property developers think there is an "oversupply" of houses in Auckland:High turnover rates and falling prices may be a sign that there are too many new houses going in to some parts of Auckland, commentators say. [...] Property developer David Whitburn said there was a "bit of an oversupply" in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Australia to Pacific: “Fuck you, you can all drown”
    World leaders are meeting in New York in two weeks for the 2019 Climate Action Summit, where they are expected to announce new and more ambitious targets to stop the world from burning. But the Australian Prime Minister won't be there, despite being in the USA at the time:Scott Morrison ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Implausible ignorance
    Labour Party president Nigel Haworth resigned yesterday over the party's sexual assault scandal. But while that's good news, its unlikely to take away the stench of a coverup. Because according to Paula Bennett in Parliament yesterday, pretty much everyone in the Prime Minister's office was involved as well:I have been ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Labour’s Fatal Flaw.
     Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...
    1 week ago
  • Ten reasons the Tories do NOT want an election
    There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...
    1 week ago
  • Prorogation Illegal, rule Scottish judges
    Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...
    1 week ago
  • Let me explain what I meant by Everyday New Zealanders
    By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Yes, the SIS is subject to the Public Records Act
    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: The wrong kind of trees?
    Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No freedom of speech in Turkey
    Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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