Open Mike 02/07/2018

112 comments on “Open Mike 02/07/2018 ”

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1. Arthur 1

   2 July 2018 at 8:18 am

   ‘Targeting.” Crawl on broken glass for your entitlement.
   • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1

     2 July 2018 at 9:02 am

     Speak of the Devil….

     What’s happening?
2. Gosman 2

   2 July 2018 at 8:56 am

   One of the modern mysteries of the current government is how Kelvin Davis went from being one of the most effective Members of the NZ Labour party while in opposition to one of its biggest liabilities when in government. His handling of the Corrections portfolio is risible. His answers to Guyon Espiner on Morning Report today were simply pathetic.
   • Pat 2.1

     2 July 2018 at 8:59 am

     While his presentation was poor his reasoning was sound enough
     • Gosman 2.1.1

       2 July 2018 at 9:13 am

       I don’t know how you can claim that when he did not even read a report on his area of responsibility (that has apparently been available since November) till last week.
       • Pat 2.1.1.1

         2 July 2018 at 9:32 am

         I can claim it with the content of his response….the decision was based on the evidence of best practice.
         Whether the projection of the number of incarcerations had deteriorated further had no bearing on that.
         Would it be better for him to be able to say he had read that particular report before the decision?…of course, even if only for optics…would the content of that report have impacted the decision?….it would have only reinforced the need for the the decision taken.

         Guyon is over excited by a misperceived ‘gotcha’
         • Gosman 2.1.1.1.1

           2 July 2018 at 9:58 am

           Aren’t you the slightest bit concerned that he hadn’t seen the report until last week?
           • Pat 2.1.1.1.1.1

             2 July 2018 at 10:07 am

             Not particularly…I have no idea what reports/studies he HAS read (or any other politician for that matter) and as stated the latest report only reinforces the need to work on reducing prison musters.
             • Gosman …

               2 July 2018 at 10:17 am

               I actually agree with the policy of smaller prisons rather than large ones however that doesn’t mean he is excused from reading reports about predicted increases in prison populations before he makes important decisions on what to do. I would at least expect him to read the report and re-evaluate his position based on the information.
               • Baba Yaga …

                 2 July 2018 at 1:10 pm

                 It would make very little difference whether he had read the report or not. The government had a significant body of material that warned them of the negative consequences of their oil and gas decision, but they made it anyway. Arrogance is becoming a key characteristic of this government.
                 • adam …

                   2 July 2018 at 1:13 pm

                   Projecting much baba yaga.

                   All opinion, no substance.
                   • Baba Yaga …

                     2 July 2018 at 1:27 pm

                     https://www.interest.co.nz/news/94123/document-reveals-mbie-advised-energy-and-resources-minister-megan-woods-limit-oil-and-gas

                     https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104465563/government-warned-oil-decision-could-have-chilling-effect-in-investment-in-taranaki

                     I’ll post more if you want.
                   • ropata …

                     2 July 2018 at 2:30 pm

                     For once I agree with Baba Yaga, it was a stupid decision that won’t cut our CO2 emissions by one µg, but it will limit NZ’s future energy options with needless and possibly avoidable costs of importing fuel. We will run out of natural gas soon, it’s 50% cleaner burning than other fossil fuels. What a waste.

                     We will probably end up burning more coal and wood.
                   • adam …

                     2 July 2018 at 3:17 pm

                     *Sigh* really.

                     And your evidence for changing track towards renewables meaning we have to buy more fossil fuel offshore is? And burning more wood and coal?

                     Half of this argument is changing how people think about consumption, not stupid arguments over keeping consumption at the same level. Feeding into idiots like baba yaga and his fake attempt to be blissfully ignorant of the the impact of that mentality is producing. Is a bloody painful and tired debate – one which I might add we have had on this site for a very long time.

                     Time to accept we have to change, or take responsibility for being the person who supports the destruction of human habitation. Those are the choices at this stage. Between a wrecker or not.
                   • ropata …

                     2 July 2018 at 5:11 pm

                     Global warming is a concern but not urgent to people facing wars, famines, ecological collapses, overfishing, depletion of soil and bees.
                   • Jenny …

                     2 July 2018 at 7:11 pm

                     @Baba Yaga

                     Don’t worry yourself on behalf of the oil companies,

                     Aparently, they are getting everything they wanted

                     The Austrian player also reiterated that the New Zealand government’s decision to not issue any new offshore exploration permits would have no impact on existing permits and rights, meaning that if OMV drills a discovery well it can be converted into a production licence.

                     Chief financial officer Reinhard Florey said recently: “We are in a very good position in New Zealand. We’re having around 50% of all available exploration licences in New Zealand.

                     “So even if there would be a tender of licences right now, we would not go for it because we have sufficient licences for the next 10 years, 15 years to explore. So we don’t see any impact on our business, not on the production as well as on the exploration activities.”

                     Meanwhile government regulators have tied up the Greenpeace protest vessel Taitu to the wharf on pain of massive fines if they put to sea.

                     And Greenpeace Aotearoa Director Russel Norman and climate activist Sara Howel have been convicted in the courts of breaching the Anadarko Amendment against protesting offshore oil exploration.

                     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcO4uYoQ2Pg
         • patricia bremner 2.1.1.1.2

           2 July 2018 at 10:01 am

           Guyon always plays the ‘gotcha game. He is predictable pain.
           He enters interviews with a predetermined stance.
           • Gabby 2.1.1.1.2.1

             2 July 2018 at 3:08 pm

             Sniggering Gyno would have a more difficult job springing his little traps if pollies made at least some effort not to make liars of themselves.
     • Gosman 2.1.2

       2 July 2018 at 9:18 am

       Listen to his responses and tell me that is what you should expect from a Minister of the Crown

       https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018651731
       • Puckish Rogue 2.1.2.1

         2 July 2018 at 9:23 am

         I’m finding it interesting seeing which ministers are doing well and which are being quite arrogant.

         I thought Grant Robertson which have got a bit drunk with power but no he’s making a good fist of finance and Kris Faafoi is doing well in consumer affairs and then compare them to the arrogance shown by Twyford or the incompetence by Curran as examples
         • adam 2.1.2.1.1

           2 July 2018 at 10:16 am

           In Twyfords defence, he does best work when he puffed up like a chicken, or he has himself under the pump.

           As for Curran, I think myself and others questioned her ability, long before labour came to power. So that should not be a surprise to no one.

           Look on the bright side, if you can only think of two it’s way better than the last government who had arrogance and incompetence across it’s whole cabinet.

           Should we mention the spy?

           Too soon?
           • Puckish Rogue 2.1.2.1.1.1

             2 July 2018 at 10:29 am

             Well David Clarks not living up to the pre election hype either (Jami-Lee Ross seems to be setting something up) , Littles apparent problem of not being able to talk to Winston before announcing policy, Nash is making some missteps (especially over briefing papers) and that’s not even counting what NZFirst have been up to

             I also want to point out I don’t think any of the Labour MPs are stupid (well maybe Curran), they just seem to be not sure of what they’re doing

             I refer back to my previous (vague) idea of a quick-fire training course for MPs before they’re allowed to do things in that being a minister is damn important yet its all about the on the job training which, to me anyway, seems horribly inefficient
             • adam …

               2 July 2018 at 11:28 am

               I thought Nash was one of yours 😉

               We are better served with talented amateurs, rather than trained idiots who think they know what is best. I’m all for them making some mistakes, and we should let new governments and ministers make mistakes, and only punish them if they do not learn. We have a good mechanism for that – elections.

               You should go to Wellington Puckish Rogue, and get why we don’t want the ministers trained by people in and outside that environment. And putting aside ideological capture – be it left or right I’m sure we agree we don’t want that.
               • Puckish Rogue …

                 2 July 2018 at 11:38 am

                 “I thought Nash was one of yours”

                 No we’re good thanks 🙂

                 “And putting aside ideological capture – be it left or right I’m sure we agree we don’t want that.”

                 Well no we don’t want that but its like the mistakes a minister makes can have extremely negative repercussions so maybe theres a middle ground that could be found

                 A small training session set up by senior National and Labour MPs thats not about policies but how to ask questions etc

                 Maybe even instead a rule book for incoming speakers written by Lockwood Smith and vetted by Labour and the Greens so as not to get another dud speaker…

                 I dunno it just doesn’t seem right that you have the most important jobs in the country and you learn it by on the job training only
             • Sacha …

               2 July 2018 at 2:56 pm

               “Jami-Lee Ross seems to be setting something up”

               Nah. Has already blown his load in the waiting room.
           • Hongi Ika 2.1.2.1.1.2

             2 July 2018 at 10:33 am

             In the Jaws of the Dragon ?
     • Grey Area 2.1.3

       2 July 2018 at 9:40 am

       He needs to lift his game but I’m not sure he can.
       • Pat 2.1.3.1

         2 July 2018 at 9:45 am

         I agree he dosnt interview well…that dosnt necessarily mean he cant do his job competently….unlike say Paula Bennet who did neither
         • Grey Area 2.1.3.1.1

           2 July 2018 at 9:58 am

           Fair enough. I’ll watch some more. I still find it odd that he’s deputy PM given he presents poorly.

           But you may be right and he’s the solid performer behind the leader.

           I also thought about Bennett and wondering how come she’s where she is given her incompetence. But I’m happy for her to stay there and for Bridges to stay front and centre as well.
           • Pat 2.1.3.1.1.1

             2 July 2018 at 10:10 am

             Time will tell how competent he is behind the scenes…having said that, hes not the personality type youd want as party leader imo.
             • ropata …

               2 July 2018 at 11:02 pm

               In person Davis is very well spoken and fluent in Te Reo. Probably just an off day
               • Pat …

                 2 July 2018 at 11:22 pm

                 Don’ t doubt that he is…(after all hes been an MP for some time) but as Anne noted (and I agreed) he dosn’t appear confident in interview situations, particularly ones expected hostile…(and for PRs observation, that was something unmet as an opposition MP)…..and none of this is necessarily indicative of his competence in his portfolio(s), though it certainly will be painted thus by the opposition.
     • Ffloyd 2.1.4

       2 July 2018 at 10:25 am

       I agree Pat.Kelvin Davis is passionate and dedicated to what he truly believes in. I was thinking this morning that seeing as Guyon is so proud oh his mastery of Te Reo that Kelvin should just answer him in Te Reo. I believe that he would be very articulate using it.
       • Baba Yaga 2.1.4.1

         2 July 2018 at 1:11 pm

         Actually Davis hides behind TeReo to disguise his abject ignorance.
   • ianmac 2.2

     2 July 2018 at 9:24 am

     The Government is setting out to reduce the prison population so the reported predicted increase will be a way to measure their success. What if the prisoner population stays around 10,000? Will this mark a huge success? And how come the Report predict that the 3,000 now on remand will become 6,000? Remember those on remand have not yet been convicted and for some who are convicted, they have already served the prison sentence on remand.
     • Gosman 2.2.1

       2 July 2018 at 9:27 am

       You may well be correct however it is the fact that Kelvin Davis is not all over this subject which is of concern. He’s doing an appalling job and this is from someone who thought he was great at holding the last government to account and scored numerous hits against them. It’s like he’s been replaced with some incompetent boob.
       • Sanctuary 2.2.1.1

         2 July 2018 at 9:31 am

         Perhaps Kelvin Davis ought to do what National did for nine years and refuse to appear on Morning Report, and only be interviewed by pro-government sycophants and then only when he feels like it?
         • Anne 2.2.1.1.1

           2 July 2018 at 9:46 am

           The problem with Kelvin Davis is not his lack of competence (his past history is testament to that) it is his lack of confidence when facing hostile opponents either of the journo or politico variety. He needs some expert training how to cope with them.

           Anyone who has listened to him at private functions where no media are present would know he is a actually a very capable speaker and on top of his portfolios, but it does not come across in the public arena.
           • Pat 2.2.1.1.1.1

             2 July 2018 at 9:58 am

             “The problem with Kelvin Davis is not his lack of competence (his past history is testament to that) it is his lack of confidence when facing hostile opponents either of the journo or politico variety. He needs some expert training how to cope with them”

             Thats the impression I get too….is a lack of self confidence in an interview situation ….and we have more than enough overconfident/arrogant politicians so it is not unwelcome.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               2 July 2018 at 11:06 am

               “lack of self confidence”

               Didn’t seem to be a problem when he was opposition, I thought he came across quite well (I mean I disagreed with what he was saying but he spoke well and was quite effective)
               • marty mars …

                 2 July 2018 at 1:10 pm

                 maybe there are other things going on for him. Of course you’d want him to crack preferably on the news. Real people do these jobs mate and they live real lives – stop being a creep.
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   2 July 2018 at 1:42 pm

                   I’d prefer him to do the honourable thing and resign before he cracks up
                   • marty mars …

                     2 July 2018 at 2:14 pm

                     Yep I’m sure you’d prefer that however your rightwing agenda is not the subject.

                     Why do rightwingers try to hunt out weakness, and even create perceived weakness, to drop someone and make them suffer? Politics? Masculinity? No, sport is the answer imo – the hunt – stupid pack behaviour and bully antics hiding deep insecurities.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     2 July 2018 at 3:59 pm

                     “Why do rightwingers try to hunt out weakness, and even create perceived weakness, to drop someone and make them suffer?”

                     Like left wingers and their partners never do it themselves

                     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10411294
                     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11235412

                     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12066885
                     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11161586

                     https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/05/settle-petal-ron-mark-told-off-for-sexist-remark.html
       • Puckish Rogue 2.2.1.2

         2 July 2018 at 9:32 am

         I still think that Labour didn’t expect to get into power and so had the luxury of saying damn near anything they liked while in opposition but are now finding out its a different kettle of fish having to implement their pre-election promises
         • marty mars 2.2.1.2.1

           2 July 2018 at 9:55 am

           Lol yes you mean opposition 101.

           The dirty gnats are still finding their feet so it’s no wonder they are floundering so badly – for instance I doubt the public know ANY opposition member portfolios – I don’t know any, even Steven bridges – that’s for sure lol
           • gsays 2.2.1.2.1.1

             2 July 2018 at 10:40 am

             Huh, Marty, you mean Simon Joyce don’t you?
             • marty mars …

               2 July 2018 at 12:55 pm

               At least bill Collins has gone lol
               • Anne …

                 2 July 2018 at 3:02 pm

                 But Judith Bennett and Paula English are still there.
         • Ankerrawshark 2.2.1.2.2

           2 July 2018 at 10:36 am

           You are probably right about that pr.

           But they are making the changes I wanted, unlike the Nats who mostly seem to sweep things under the carpet…….

           I guess like anyone in anew job there is a bit of a learning curb. I was aware of this when labour was in opposition and the lost experienced people like king and cunliffe. There is very little previous ministerial experience in labour currently. But they will get that on the job.

           I can’t really understand why so much criticism of Twyford. I think he’s working his butt off on two very difficult port folios with crusher braying at him (ridiculous the idea that he could have solved the housing crisis in 5 minutes)
           • Puckish Rogue 2.2.1.2.2.1

             2 July 2018 at 11:45 am

             “I can’t really understand why so much criticism of Twyford.”

             Well off the top of my head (without googling) Labour made promises about housing including but not limited to:

             Kiwibuild using apprenticeships which look to being dropped for foreign workers

             Cutting back immigration but now allowing more foreign workers (see above)

             Kiwis building the houses now looks to be either pre-fabs (not that i’m opposed to them) or simply buying the houses off developers

             The houses being touted now looking like including apartments when it was described as homes for families (and all that entails)

             The time frames for said houses being pushed back

             The costs for the home raising

             The easiest way for Twyford to shut National up is to start producing houses and at the moment i think 18 have been announced to be built

             Kiwibuild was a major pre-election promise so of course National was going to attack it, especially given all of the above
             • Ankerrawshark …

               2 July 2018 at 12:59 pm

               Honestly thanks for outlining the concerns about Twyford.

               It is a huge project they are undertaking ie building more affordable homes +++++it’s like any big project until you start it, you can’t really know what you are facing. Know this from my own home renovation projects. Even if you really shot up before hand things somehow unfold in unforeseen ways (I won’t bore you with the details here)……

               The kiwi build apprenticeship thing is going ahead, heard some announcement about it very recently, but new apprentices will not yet have the experience to do the work. Yes the thing about fast tracking migrants for the job doesn’t fit with what they said about cutting back on migration (although they still may achieve that reduction). But needs must.

               Twyford has signed off some great transport gains for Auckland (rail links), set up kiwi build, he I think is responsible for getting unoccupied houses eg owned by Auckland transport available for those needing emergency accommodation (better than motels) and he also got off his arse and phoned gluckman about the science behind meths testing.

               So it might look a bit messy, but he’s working hard towards his targets, getting some smalls gains and setting it up so it’s good to go. After all it’s a massive task he has got
               • Puckish Rogue …

                 2 July 2018 at 3:00 pm

                 The big problem facing Twyford is, as you say, Kiwibuild is a huge undertaking with a lot riding on it, like a big gamble kind of thing, in that if he succeeds he (and Labour) will gain the kind of kudos Michael Joseph Savage received and can then look at three terms in office, at least (yeah its that big)

                 But if Kiwibuild fails he (and again Labour) will likely get the opposite reaction and all that entails
                 • Ankerrawshark …

                   2 July 2018 at 3:53 pm

                   Agree or.

                   And at this stage it’s too early to tell. It might not be quite as black and white either, eg in areas outside Auckland kiwi build probably has more chance of success as the housing situation is quite as bad and the scale is less…….

                   I am reminded of what jacinda ardearn said (and I was sitting in the gallery when she said it) “I rather be the govt that tried and didn’t quite get their, than the govt that didn’t try at all” or words to that effect
                 • Stuart Munro …

                   2 July 2018 at 5:04 pm

                   It can’t succeed unless they use Savage’s funding model.

                   He’s just burnt a truckload of credibility trying to accommodate foreign investors – who will then limit his success just when he needs to push on through to a higher order of magnitude.
                   • saveNZ …

                     2 July 2018 at 6:16 pm

                     @exactly Stuart Munro and the foreign workers also undermining Labour’s so called Kiwi jobs and foreign buyers now even be bought in the mix to buy up the land and profit from it, or quasi private COO type companies be virtually given away public land in secret deals that are not providing much affordable housing aka HCL and if the buyers end up being foreigners or new residents who then rent them out after the withholding period, and the renters need more accomodation supplement to pay for the rising rents in the aforementioned Kiwibuild houses, it is gonna be a joke.

                     The NZ way seems to be market forces needing government money propping it up in a Kind of quasi public money for private profits. Not a nice story.

                     If they want to get Kiwibuild to succeed they need to use local and resident builders even if they have to train them on mass themselves, use local land and probably not sell them at all, as the city needs cheap rentals the most. Then use the rents to make more, exactly how private developers do it, only the profit goes back to the state to make more rentals!
             • Sacha …

               2 July 2018 at 2:59 pm

               “The houses being touted now looking like including apartments when it was described as homes for families (and all that entails)”

               Are you saying families in many cities around the world do not live in apartments?
               • Puckish Rogue …

                 2 July 2018 at 3:03 pm

                 I’m saying that Kiwibuild was/is being touted as a new rendition of the quarter acre dream, a continuation of Michael Joseph Savages ideas for state housing, a home and back yard for the kids to play in

                 Not apartment blocks
                 • McFlock …

                   2 July 2018 at 3:46 pm

                   Was/is it?

                   Don’t recall anyone touting that all homes would be detached houses on quarter acre blocks.
                   The policy in 2012 included apartment blocks.
                   Before the election the policy included apartments and terraced houses.

                   Where was the kiwibuild policy touted as a rendition of the quarter acre dream?
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     2 July 2018 at 3:50 pm

                     I’m not talking policy, I’m talking the “feelz”
                   • McFlock …

                     2 July 2018 at 8:41 pm

                     Got any examples?
                   • ropata …

                     2 July 2018 at 11:39 pm

                     All the marketing shows pictures of detached houses or town houses. Even the Kiwibuild logo is a house. Apartments are nowhere to be seen in the feel good PR images

                     (google image search “kiwibuild”)
                   • McFlock …

                     2 July 2018 at 11:46 pm

                     Certainly not just quarter acres though
                     As for the logo… a bit of projection there I think.
   • xanthe 2.3

     2 July 2018 at 9:31 am

     Simple solution Gos, stop listening to Guyon! he is a dork.
     • Gosman 2.3.1

       2 July 2018 at 10:01 am

       Guyon’s a dork because Kelvin Davis came across as a right plonker???
       • Stuart Munro 2.3.1.1

         2 July 2018 at 10:51 am

         Guyon’s never been anything else.
       • xanthe 2.3.1.2

         2 July 2018 at 11:11 am

         actually i agree gos about kelvin being a plonker, but that doesn’t excuse Guyon or his presence on morning report.

         Look on the bright side we could have had Greg Oc’onnor for minister of corrections! eeeek
   • Gabby 2.4

     2 July 2018 at 10:08 am

     Maybe someone’s vetting his reading list too closely gozzer.
3. Puckish Rogue 3

   2 July 2018 at 9:18 am

   It is interesting to see which Labour MPs are showing themselves in power, I mean Grant Robertson is doing quite well in that I thought he might have been one of the ones to get a bit arrogant but no hes doing well and Kris Faafoi is making a good fist on consumer affairs, again without the arrogance

   Now compare those two that’re getting on with the job with someone like Twyford or Curran for example
   • marty mars 3.1

     2 July 2018 at 10:03 am

     Yeah ( breathless) so true wow good spotting onto it yeah nah maybe not really no rubbish boo.
4. AsleepWhileWalking 4

   2 July 2018 at 9:25 am

   A sympathetic interview.

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2018/07/one-addict-s-story-of-being-evicted-by-housing-nz.amp.html

   Poto Kingi has been told by HNZ she cannot apply for a home for three years after being evicted for meth (not cooking).

   They tell her to go to a boarding house where the temptation of meth will be all around her. Choosing not to use she couch surfs instead.
5. xanthe 5

   2 July 2018 at 9:28 am

   here is an example of a mass lie

   from wikipwdia
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster#Units_1,_2,_and_3

   “On 12 March, an explosion in Unit 1 was caused by the ignition of the hydrogen, destroying the upper part of the building. On 14 March, a similar explosion occurred in the Reactor 3 building,.”

   I invite you to consider the evidence

   here is footage from reactor one
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJZo_8_LI90

   and reactor three
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVp2NnY16g0

   These explosions are NOT “similar” there clearly is a fundamentally different process at reactor 3 explosion.

   why the lie? and how has this lie continued in the face of video evidence?
   • Incognito 5.1

     2 July 2018 at 9:50 am

     Why don’t you edit the Wiki page and correct the “lie”? Anyway, who’s doing the lying, according to you?
     • xanthe 5.1.1

       2 July 2018 at 10:15 am

       actually I did edit the wikipage (simply pointing out the main differences between the two explosions, volume of material ejected and height of ejection) , it (the edit) lasted about five minutes.

       Well the Lie must have begun with Tepco who controlled the initial analysis, Why this lie continues, lazyness?, ignorance? I really dont know ,

       What I do know is that hydrogen explosion alone does not explain what is observed in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVp2NnY16g0
       • marty mars 5.1.1.1

         2 July 2018 at 10:26 am

         You seem to be speaking with definitives – how do you know so much about hydrogen explosions?
         • xanthe 5.1.1.1.1

           2 July 2018 at 10:52 am

           ignorant comment marty. what do you know?
           • marty mars 5.1.1.1.1.1

             2 July 2018 at 1:06 pm

             Huh – well Andre followed up with the tech analysis. You seem to be basing your opinion on your eyesight and limited knowledge of what you think a hydrogen explosion should look like. That is not evidence of a big lie.

             Personally I think fukishima is such a massive disaster and cover up for real and the effects of that CONTINUING leakage of radiation into the ground and thus the sea are only now becoming known. That is where evidence of a big lie will be found imo.
       • Andre 5.1.1.2

         2 July 2018 at 10:35 am

         Oh? Why is a hydrogen explosion not a satisfactory explanation?

         Considering the enormous range of concentrations that hydrogen is explosive at, I don’t find it even slightly surprising that there could be a huge difference in the energy released by explosions in identical chambers. One could have exploded while there was still very little hydrogen while the other may have developed a much higher concentration before the explosion.

         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_safety

         Even the assumption the explosions were in identical chambers is unwarranted, it seems the explosions were because the hydrogen was vented into the maintenance halls.

         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zirconium_alloy#Oxidation_of_zirconium_by_steam
         • xanthe 5.1.1.2.1

           2 July 2018 at 10:50 am

           “Even the assumption the explosions were in identical chambers is unwarranted,”

           Exactly! The video evidence clearly shows they were not.

           think for a moment about the mechanics of how you might produce a vertical column of approx 1 kilometer (by comparison to the vent towers) of a great volume of material (observed falling) and then consider the dynamics of a hydrogen explosion (very fast!) in a light containment (the upper floor of the building)

           reactor three was not “similar” to reactor one, certainly hydrogen explosion can be observed in both cases ( detonation, shock wave, bright flash) but what occurred after that was fundamentally different.
           • Andre 5.1.1.2.1.1

             2 July 2018 at 11:30 am

             There’s plenty of reasons why there might be a much larger plume from one explosion than the other.

             For instance, depending on maintenance operations, one of the halls may have had a large quantity of some sort of maintenance supplies that ignited, that either wasn’t present or wasn’t ignited in the other (because of a lower energy initial explosion).

             Or there may be simple differences in the geometry and construction of the maintenance halls that accounts for the differences seen.

             If both explosions were initiated by hydrogen that escaped from the containment vessel, which was generated in both cases by superheated steam reacting with zirconium inside the vessel, why is calling them “similar” a lie?
             • xanthe …

               2 July 2018 at 11:55 am

               “For instance, depending on maintenance operations, one of the halls may have had a large quantity of some sort of maintenance supplies that ignited, that either wasn’t present or wasn’t ignited in the other (because of a lower energy initial explosion).”

               Well if that was the case the wikipedia would say something like “the observed differences was due to the large amount of explosive material stored in the upper level of reactor three”

               But that scenario does not address the major difference which is the vertical velocity and volume of the ejecta.

               Have you actually viewed the video’s of the two events?
               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJZo_8_LI90
               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVp2NnY16g0

               simply dismissing the second event as “similar” to the first just does not work. .. look for yourself!
               • Andre …

                 2 July 2018 at 12:23 pm

                 Yes, I did view the two videos.

                 And I have some experience of physical objects being moved around by rapidly expanding gases, in experiments where everything we could think of was tightly controlled. And there were some pretty wild variations in outcomes even with initial conditions set to be as identical as possible.

                 So I don’t see a problem with describing those two explosions as “similar”, given the root causes of the two are the same. Given that there were likely to be substantial differences in initial conditions at the time of initiation, substantial differences in the appearance of the aftermath seems more likely than not.
                 • xanthe …

                   2 July 2018 at 1:04 pm

                   “given the root causes of the two are the same.”

                   Well thats the assumption you are steered towards by the description as “similar”
                   Best not question that assumption eh

                   easier to postulate “likely to be substantial differences in initial conditions” without any evidence and no such “differences” ever having been outlined.

                   I suggest you familiarize yourself with the differences between Detonation and Deflagration.

                   as well here is rather more plausible and well explained mechanism that could produce the observed events
                   http://www.fukuleaks.org/web/?p=3018
                   • Andre …

                     2 July 2018 at 2:24 pm

                     Ok, let’s take your new bit of theorising at face value (at a grand total of two comments it doesn’t seem to have attracted much attention). And no, I can’t be bothered trying to dig up a rebuttal of it.

                     So then the explosion at reactor 1 was the result of a known hazrd of pressuried water reactors (superheated steam reacting with zirconium cladding to produce hydrogen). Then reactor 3 explosion was due to a different but also well known hazard of pressurised water reactors. But somehow, probably due to technical differences of opinion among experts, the reactor 3 explosion is being misattributed to the same known hazard of pressurised water reactors as the explosion at 1.

                     How does this difference of opinion turn into a lie, let alone the foundations of some kind of conspiracy theory? Whether it was in fact a steam explosion or a hydrogen explosion doesn’t change the arguments against using that pressurised water reactor design.
                   • Gabby …

                     2 July 2018 at 2:30 pm

                     Similar isn’t identical xanthy.
   • Draco T Bastard 5.2

     2 July 2018 at 2:39 pm

     These explosions are NOT “similar” there clearly is a fundamentally different process at reactor 3 explosion.

     And you can link to the research proving this?
     • xanthe 5.2.1

       2 July 2018 at 3:06 pm

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJZo_8_LI90
       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVp2NnY16g0
       • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1.1

         2 July 2018 at 10:07 pm

         Ah, so you confirm that you’re talking out your arse.

         Gotcha.
6. Ffloyd 6

   2 July 2018 at 11:01 am

   How many times did Bridges say ‘spray and walk away’ this morning on Espiners show. I counted three but could have missed a few. AND he didn’t answer Guyons question as to whether he would forgo the Winter Allowance. I heard this morning that 140 people had opted out of it. Did you hear that Si. As for his amazement at Kelvin not having read report on figures on inmates rising the should just look to his right and ask the ever incompetent Paula Bennett to comment on this. When did she ever read ANYTHING? Going out on a limb here. NEVER?
7. Observer Tokoroa 7

   2 July 2018 at 11:15 am

   Deaf RNZ

   Kelvin Davis performed well with the struggling Guyon this morning. Davis kept saying to the non responsive RNZ dummie, that Labour are not going to build mega prisons, but will develop ways to release prisoners on remand, and those suffering with Mental health problems. Thereby reducing the number of persons in prison.

   Do not be misled by devotee TROLLS who suck on the incoherence of Simon Bridges.

   Whatever, do not go with the trapsetting nonsense of people like Guyon and other low IQ RNZ so called journos.
   • xanthe 7.1

     2 July 2018 at 11:28 am

     “Whatever, do not go with the trapsetting nonsense of people like Guyon and other low IQ RNZ so called journos.”

     agree wholeheartedly.
     some time ago I decided to avoid the herald and one result was more exposure to RNZ… very disappointing.

     where can I find real journalism of day to day events in NZ?
8. Hongi Ika 8

   2 July 2018 at 11:20 am

   Most television and radio hosts/journalists suffer from very low IQ levels and sadly lack intelligence and have little common sense ?
   • Draco T Bastard 8.1

     2 July 2018 at 2:43 pm

     https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-power-prime/201107/common-sense-is-neither-common-nor-sense
9. adam 9

   2 July 2018 at 11:22 am

   If you have 26 minutes in your day, well worth watching this interview with Seymour M. Hersh. You may remember him from such reporting as the:

   My Lai Massacre
   Korean Air Flight 007
   Attack on pharmaceutical factory in Sudan
   Dick Cheney
   and the questioning of the killing of Osama bin Laden

   Just to name a few. With Chris Hedges.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejusjNsapO4&ab_channel=RTAmerica
   • ropata 9.1

     3 July 2018 at 1:00 am

     Brilliant interview, how ironic that RT is usually more accurate than American corporate media
     • lprent 9.1.1

       3 July 2018 at 8:14 am

       RT is usually more accurate than American corporate media

       That isn’t hard. After all comparing Fox News and RT is like comparing identical twins with a brain deficit causing a childish lack of judgement.

       Perhaps you shouldn’t be so hard on both of these deluded siblings, each so deranged by the objects of their pathetic adulation.
     • adam 9.1.2

       3 July 2018 at 9:03 am

       I’d be very careful with RT news though ropata. That said, I like this show, and redacted tonight.
10. cleangreen 10

    2 July 2018 at 12:24 pm

    ‘Rid the use of plastic bags.’

    While we are concentrating on banning plastic bags that are polluting our oceans and environment, can we also ban using components of plastic in our vehicle tyres please?

    As “synthetic tyres” today now have the very same chemicals inert in them also as all plastics have.

    Many benzene components are included in our commonly used tyres and these tyres have black carbon dust

    Worse is that the carbon tyre dust that is emitted from one truck with 32 tyres will shed 100 times the plastic dust (cancer causing) more than just one car.

    This toxic carbon tyre dust have been found its way to our artic ice caps.

    Tyre black carbon dust has now been found to have been carried from our road pollution ‘runoff’ and transported in heavy rain into our roadside water ducts and water ‘sheds’ and then sent out to the rivers and coast to be transferred to the Antarctic ice caps by the prevailing ocean currents.

    Scientists have found that the black carbon dust that may include tyre dust settles on the ice caps and accelerates the melting of our ice caps now.

    Tyre particles are now known to travel far greater distances than previously known now.

    https://e360.yale.edu/features/climate-connection-unraveling-the-surprising-ecology-of-dust
    http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2016/03/22/the-damaging-effects-of-black-carbon/
    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140610-connecting-dots-dust-soot-snow-ice-climate-change-dimick/
    http://washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/realistic-ways-stop-melting-arctic-ice.html
    • Andre 10.1

      2 July 2018 at 12:39 pm

      Do any of your links mention tyre dust anywhere in them? Mind pointing out where? I had a skim through and didn’t see any.

      While there’s plenty to be critical of with current tyre manufacturing and how they are used, dust is a long long way down the list of problems.
    • saveNZ 10.2

      2 July 2018 at 6:26 pm

      Paper bags are the go. Ban the plastic bag! Too late to tax it as the oceans are dying! Oh that will upset investors so probably the government would prefer to kill the ocean rather than tackle taxing a company for polluting or even worse a foreign company, (but fine for ordinary commuters with petrol tax.).
11. Fireblade 11

    2 July 2018 at 2:23 pm

    Kiwibuild Tracker.

    Designed and built by Stuff staff. Methodology vetted by NZ Initiative economist Sam Warburton.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/105105107/how-our-kiwibuild-tracker-works
    • saveNZ 11.1

      2 July 2018 at 6:42 pm

      @Fireblade – the Stuff tracker is a good idea but should show how many homes have been demolished to make way for the Kiwibuild aka the truth, they start with a negative as the National government booted out loads of vulnerable people to make these stylish new houses which if you look at Hobsenville and Tamaki are being marketed around $800k – well beyond what any renter or working or even middle class family can afford! Then put the houses into price banks… what they used to be $350k, now the 3 bed houses are $650k and going up… The other issue is that banks don’t like to lend on unstable jobs and so many jobs now are unstable…everything is harder because banks can afford to be choosy.

      The WOF looks like a joke when they are now housing emergency families in demolition houses when the whole idea was to promise affordable safe houses! Before they fell into the Natz lies they should have looked a bit closer at the demographics of Auckland and what was driving up the prices! I know Labour and Greens trying to do the right thing, but +practicality+ needs to be looked at not just the latest +flash reports+ that clearly are a little amiss aka the staggering price increases of new builds…. lack of affordable houses… lack of rentals in any form… jobs still paying the same as a decade ago… It’s what they said about the wage trickle down in the 1980’s, never happened now we have the housing trickle down – is labour being fooled by their own liars again?
12. adam 12

    2 July 2018 at 3:18 pm

    Just to prove how out of touch the act party are.

    https://horizonpoll.co.nz/page/513/72-support-banning-letting-fees?gtid=7729406816510KOJ
13. cleangreen 13

    2 July 2018 at 4:10 pm

    Thanks Andre a pleasure, view this scientific literature for clarity as the NZ document focuses on the amount of road tyre dust particles which is now very alarming to us all.

    http://rcaforum.org.nz/sites/public_files/documents/stormwateremissionfactors.pdf
    Microplastics

    Then I Quote; from scientical reseach here at Alfred Weagner Institute.

    This is just one sample of research that is recently discovered and as we agee particulates are from various sources we know clearly in NZ studies road dust from tyres is a hazard to be now taken seriously now.We now have to call these particles from tyres as “Microplastics ” as the scientists are.

    Read the recent NZ publication also to see the NZ ageement that tyre wear now causes mass amounts of road dust pollution.

    http://rcaforum.org.nz/sites/public_files/documents/stormwateremissionfactors.pdf

    Scientists bombarded microparticles in the ice samples with infrared light.
    Using a mathematical method they then analysed the radiation they reflected back to identify what was in the samples.

    Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research (AWI)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5651783/Record-concentration-microplastics-Arctic-sea-ice-five-separate-locations.html

    Identifying different types of microplastic and the movement of the ice could help us work out the source of these pollutants, say researchers from the Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research (AWI)

    Microplastics are particles, fibres or fragments which range in size from just a few thousandths of a millimetre to under five millimetres.
    They come from multiple sources including from the breakdown of bigger plastic items.

    For example, they could come from putting synthetic clothes through the laundry which are then washed to the sea, or from car tyre friction on roads, creating a dust of the particles.

    Scientists bombarded microparticles in the ice samples with infrared light.
    Using a mathematical method they then analysed the radiation they reflected back to identify what was in the samples.

    The tiny fragments of plastic ranged from types widely used in packaging such as polyethylene, to paints, nylon, polyester and cellulose acetate which is commonly used in making cigarette filters

    Identifying different types of microplastic and the movement of the ice could help us work out the source of these pollutants, say researchers from the Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research (AWI)

    Microplastics are particles, fibres or fragments which range in size from just a few thousandths of a millimetre to under five millimetres.
    They come from multiple sources including from the breakdown of bigger plastic items.

    For example, they could come from putting synthetic clothes through the laundry which are then washed to the sea, or from car tyre friction on roads, creating a dust of the particles.

    Scientists bombarded microparticles in the ice samples with infrared light.
    Using a mathematical method they then analysed the radiation they reflected back to identify what was in the samples.

    Scientists bombarded microparticles in the ice samples with infrared light. Using a mathematical method they then analysed the radiation they reflected back to identify what was in the samples

    The process, reported in a study published in the journal Nature Communications, revealed there were far more microplastics than previous assessments

    They study revealed that, with its process of freezing and melting sea ice, the Arctic is important in storing and transporting the plastic particles. Scientists said they could not yet say whether the particles released from melting sea ice stayed in the Arctic
    The process, reported in a study published in the journal Nature Communications, revealed there were far more microplastics than previous assessments.

    Gunnar Gerdts, whose laboratory made the measurements, said: ‘Using this approach, we also discovered plastic particles that were only 11 micrometres across.
    ‘That’s roughly one-sixth the diameter of a human hair, and also explains why we found concentrations of more than 12,000 particles per litre of sea ice – which is two to three times higher than what we’d found in past measurements’, he said.
    They study revealed that, with its process of freezing and melting sea ice, the Arctic is important in storing and transporting the plastic particles.

    WHAT ARE MICROPLASTICS AND HOW DO THEY GET INTO OUR WATERWAYS?
    Microplastics are plastic particles measuring less than five millimetres (0.2 inches).
    They have hit the headlines over recent years, as improper disposal has resulted in tonnes of waste making its way into the ocean.
    Each year, tonnes of plastic waste fails to get recycled and dealt with correctly, which can mean they end up in marine ecosystems.
    Although it’s unclear exactly how they end up in the water, microplastics may enter through simple everyday wear and tear of clothing and carpets.
    Tumble dryers may also be a source, particularly if they have a vent to the open air.
    Plastics don’t break down for thousands of years and it is estimated that there are already millions of items of plastic waste in the oceans. This number is expected to rise.
    Studies have also revealed 700,000 plastic fibres could be released into the atmosphere with every washing machine cycle.
    Current water systems are unable to effectively filter out all microplastic contamination, due to the varying size of particles.
    The amount of plastic rubbish in the world’s oceans will outweigh fish by 2050 unless the world takes drastic action to further recycle, a report released in 2016 revealed.
    More than 80 per cent of the world’s tap water is contaminated with plastic, research published in September 2017 revealed.
    The US has the highest contamination rate at 93 per cent, followed by Lebanon and India, experts from the University of Minnesota found.
    France, Germany and the UK have the lowest levels, however, they still come in at 72 per cent.
    Overall, 83 per cent of water samples from dozens of nations around the world contain microplastics.
    Scientists warn microplastics are so small they could penetrate organs.
    Bottled water may not be a safer alternative, as scientists have found contaminated samples.
    Creatures of all shapes and sizes have been found to have consumed the plastics, whether directly or indirectly.
    Previous research has also revealed microplastics absorb toxic chemicals, which are then released in the gut of animals.
    • Andre 13.1

      2 July 2018 at 4:49 pm

      That’s an impressive firehosing of irrelevant information.

      I found precisely one mention of tyre dust in your DailyMail link, in the context of a phrase saying ‘hmm, we don’t really know where this stuff is coming from, maybe tyre dust, dunno?’

      That rcaforum pdf was an impressive compilation of the composition of roadside dust contaminants and microdetail about their composition. But it was remarkably devoid about the hazards presented by the different contaminants. For instance, the section dealing with tyre dust failed to show any details around particulate size distribution, which is a critical bit of information in assessing the hazard. Although it did mention about less than 5% was small enough that it might become mobile again once it had settled on the ground. Nor did it contain any mention of uptake of these particles by marine life.

      Meanwhile, scaremongering by joining together irrelevant factoids is how we end up with debacles like the meth-house testing scam.
14. Morrissey 14

    2 July 2018 at 4:31 pm

    Donald Trump and his regime of grotesques are a horror show.
    Unfortunately, the Democrats are led by people like Charles Schumer….

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/07/01/senator-charles-schumer-architect-abettor-accomplice-of-and-accessory-to-gazas-martyrdom/
15. Patricia Bremner 15

    2 July 2018 at 7:05 pm

    Using natural fibers will lower the plastic particles from the clothes in the washing. Less nanoparticles to be absorbed also.
16. eco maori 16

    3 July 2018 at 5:54 am

    Whats with this Eco Maori see that all the left political party’s need to keep up with there strong causes links below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOsM-DYAEhY&index=2&list=RDfKopy74weus

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/02/trump-fart-act-report-blows-through-washington#img-1 Ka kite ano
17. DS 17

    3 July 2018 at 9:14 am

    My latest blog post, defending the universality of the welfare state:

    https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2018/07/02/of-useful-idiots-ii-the-universality-of-social-welfare-new-zealand-politics/
18. R.P Mcmurphy 18

    3 July 2018 at 4:37 pm

    mad heka duplicity alien was crowing in the Wairarapa Times Age yesterday morning that Winston Peters had been “FIRED” [sic] from the am show and was on two week suspension. Now he wont go back and merkin and dunnycan are really spitting the dummy. and besides what sort of juvenile language is that from a supposed adult.
    why has politics in New Zealand descended into this sort of cocakamamie cross between reality teevee and womens weakly with the provincial rags as a support cast?
19. R.P Mcmurphy 19

    3 July 2018 at 4:41 pm

    and for good measure Question time in the house has become a farce. if you dont believe me then watch and see for yourself. the nationals are like this pack of nitwitted drongos. One Brett Hudson asked a question to which he had just been given the answer.
20. Eco Maori 20

    3 July 2018 at 6:50 pm

    The courts have finally got that case of including money loaned as some ones income in there assesment of money received fraudulently from winz they have ruled to clear the dept Ka pai.
    There you go same day one week apart the only difference is the new Auckland fuel tax and no traffic jam today who said a fuel tax won’t decrease traffic.
    Business conferenced allways go’s down in winter and what’s happening around Papatuanukue with trade won’t help plus most businesses are right-wing voters smitten that they lost the election.
    Wow they found the Mokopunas lost in the Thailand caveing network that’s awesome I had my doubts but they are saved. Many thanks to the all the tangata who are part of the search team that found the Mokopunas.
    There you go men behaveing badly at the basketball game between the Australian and the Philippins come on guys the whole Papatuanukue is watching you.
    . Ka kite ano

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