It's an interesting campaign strategy to whip up fear about a bunch of things that have turned to shit on your own watch. Because you've been actively turning them to shit.
It's also an interesting strategy to blame a right wing president on left aligned protests/riots in democrat led cities. But when you don't have a campaign.. you gotta campaign on something I spose.
Dunno how protesting about unarmed people getting murdered by police being grossly over-reactive to the situation is a left thing, but anyhoo. Dunno why you think encouraging armed thugs from out of town to go in to mix it up in protests that have nothing to do with them is a good thing, but it looks like since the tangelo turdgoblin encourages it you seem to feel the need to defend it. Hey, you do you.
As far as a campaign message goes, Biden is quite clear: violence, looting, property damage etc are not protest and are not OK.
You are quite correct about Biden; he has been very clear to condemn the violence. However Maui's point in his first sentence stands. In this piece (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/16/maybe-trump-shouldnt-save-democrat-run-cities-besieged-by-violence/) Marc Thiessen talks about the "spineless response of these local Democratic leaders to violent protests in their cities", and how "many of America’s cities are conducting social experiments in lawlessness, showing the rest of the country what happens when local leaders join calls to “defund the police” and cower in the face of violence." Legitimate protest against racism and just plain thuggish policing is one thing; property damage and outright violence conducted by the likes of antifa is another thing altogether.
If you're trying to make a serious point, you might want a better cite than a long-term Repug paid liar.
Marc Alexander Thiessen (born January 13, 1967) is an American author, political appointee, and weekly columnist for The Washington Post. Thiessen served as a speechwriter for United States President George W. Bush from 2004 to 2009 and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld from 2001 to 2006.
In this particular case, the quotes you've picked from Thiessen's piece merely make vague insinuations and fail to point to any specific cities, people, actions or incidents. Which makes it just a general smear job, not an actual argument in good faith amenable to reasoned rebuttal.
Clearly you don't like the messenger, but it seems you actually haven't read the message.
“the quotes you’ve picked from Thiessen's piece merely make vague insinuations and fail to point to any specific cities, people, actions or incidents.”
The first piece from The Oregonian doesn't cover any failings of Portland's or Oregon's leadership, but is about the heavy-handed actions from uninvited federal agents. That makes it much better support for the argument that the Mango Mussolini is deliberately trying to incite violence.
As for your second link – you're trying to suggest Deranged Dotard making self-serving mouth noises bears any connection whatsoever to reality? Seriously? After more than four years of it being very well documented that any assertion he makes is much more likely to be a lie than truth?
Yes, they are! They are links taken directly from his article that reference "specific cities, people, actions or incidents”.
And Thiessen makes this point:
“In New York City, shootings during one week in June were up 358 percent over the previous year, while the number of police retirements has skyrocketed 411 percent — a vote of no confidence in the city’s left-wing leadership. In Atlanta, murders are up 86 percent. In Minneapolis, shootings are up 47 percent. In Philadelphia, shootings involving children are up 43 percent, and 96 percent of the victims are black. In Chicago, 106 people were shot during a single weekend in June, 14 of them fatally, while this past weekend, 64 people were shot, and 11 died. All these cities are run by Democrats.”
And then he links directly to leadership:
“Then there is the spineless response of these local Democratic leaders to violent protests in their cities. Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan called the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest, which took over several city blocks and a park, a “block party” and compared it to the “summer of love” — only to see multiple assaults and two murders take place in the police-free zone she permitted to exist for nearly a month. In Portland, Ore. — a hotbed of antifa violence — mayhem has raged for nearly two months as violent protesters have set more than 100 fires, looted business and done millions of dollars in property damage to local businesses. Rioters have attacked police with rocks, glass bottles, soup cans, frozen water bottles, bricks and fireworks, according to court documents filed by police. The mayor seems unable or unwilling to quell the violence.”
These are not ‘vague insinuations’. They are accusations of lax governance, supported by specific examples.
Were you born stupid or did you get someone to hit you on the head to make you that way?
Those links were not Thiessen's words that you quoted. Nor do they support the argument Thiessen is apparently trying to make.
It's not that I don't like Thiessen. It's that he has a very long history of lying in order to deceive people into supporting Repugs. And zero history of producing reasoned principled argument backed by reasonable interpretation of facts and evidence. It's a total waste of time and limited page views reading him, unless you feel a need to track what lies are currently being spewed. That he has cited an article showing the thuggery of federal agents acting outside of any reasonable interpretation of their jurisdiction sent in by by a lawless thuggish president, to try to gaslight that Democrats are somehow responsible for the violence, is just more evidence of Thiessen's attempted deceptivenesss.
Hold on. Originally you claimed “Those aren’t from Thiessen’s piece”, yet they were.
Now your claiming “Those links were not Thiessen's words that you quoted” but I never claimed they were ‘Thiessens words’. If you had read the article you would see that they are links taken directly from his article to support his opinion.
" Nor do they support the argument Thiessen is apparently trying to make. "
Yes, they do. They draw a credible link between the words and actions of Democrat leaders and violent demonstrations in their cities.
I stand by my response to you earlier. You didn’t bother to read the message because you don’t like the messenger.
" Yet despite its violent history, some Democratic leaders have been enablers or outright supporters of the antifa movement…"
" Other Democratic leaders have been much more direct in their support, including the former deputy chair of the Democratic Party, Representative Keith Ellison. Although Germany has banned an antifa website, Ellison posed with the antifa handbook to show support at a Minneapolis bookshop and said it would “strike fear in the heart” of Trump. "
"Fuck me, has it ever occurred to you to check the quality of sources you cite? "
Well it's that kind of headscratching denial that led you to you claim “Those aren’t from Thiessen’s piece”, when they were, and then to deflect with "those links were not Thiessen's words that you quoted” when I never claimed they were.
I guess if property damage is totally unacceptable, maybe the cops and govt should have instigated some changes in their behaviour when Colin Kaepernick took a knee. But that didn't work, so here we are.
Property damage (the violence mostly comes from the cops) seems to be having some effect.
Because the cops recklessly (at best) killing people is not ok, either. If a donut store has to be trashed before murderers in uniform are charged, I'm not going to get worked up over the vandalism.
The violence I'm referring to is coming from some within the protestors. The only effect that is having is to harm innocent individuals, and place the police and citizenry at even greater risk.
It was a subject being discussed, and one that you carefully ignored. But there won't be anything informative or particularly believable about any belated platitudes you might make, so don't bother.
You came late to the conversation and didn't read back. Possibly why you’ve added nothing of value.
[Genuine debate assumes good faith and I’m starting to doubt you’re interested in this, as you don’t appear to comment in good faith. You can go back to comment 1.1.1, which is a direct reply to comment 1.1, which is where “[t]his convo started” according to you, and read it back for yourself and see for yourself that McFlock was correct. In addition, there is no hierarchy or ownership as such in and of discussion threads based on the timing at which a commenter joins in; what matters is that people engage on-topic and with respect, which you failed to do with your snide comment. If you continue your apparent disinterest in genuine debate based on good faith, you can read this site’s Policy about what might happen next. As a newcomer to this site, I strongly suggest you read the Policy before commenting again – Incognito]
" If a donut store has to be trashed before murderers in uniform are charged, I'm not going to get worked up over the vandalism. "
Unless and until it was your donut shop, I suspect. Violent protest that harms innocent people and/or their property is never ok. It is a shift towards anarchy, and solves nothing.
Organised labour throughout the world has been full of thugs and corrupt practice. We only have to look over the Tasman. “According to evidence before the royal commission, the CFMEU has clear links to organised crime.”https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/the-corruption-of-organised-labour-20141009-11bxr8. Doesn’t make it right.
…and it doesn;t mean it works. Perhaps you've acknowledged that by digging out a 100+ years dispute that was not resolved by violent thuggery (although that was certainly a part of some organised labour activities).
So now organised crime is relevant to "violent protest" (as if the criminals didn't also get paid by the employers), but the police thuggery and murders that sparked the BLM protests aren't part of the thread. lol
Oh, and "especially" does not mean "restricted to".
No, I talked about organised labour. You mentioned organised crime in your previous post.
I didn't say you did. What you did was conflate organised crime with the police.
Because you seem to think disputes in the coal mining industry 100 years ago are somehow relevant, at least educate yourself about how those disputes were settled. Certainly not by violenece and rioting.
[You have been on the Moderators’ radar and have already received a couple of warnings. You conflated “organised labour” and “organised crime” in your comment: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1748423 at 5:06 PM. You are contradicting and confusing yourself, at best, or gaslighting and being disingenuous, at worst. Lift your game – incognito]
2: Nope. That's your stupidity writing cheques that your reading comprehension can't cash.
3: Again, you opened the door to it with the suggestion that property damage is "never ok" and "achieves nothing". Organised labour throughout the world did not make achievements by being lickspittles.
Unless you can actually write a comment relevant to my previous responses, I suspect we're done here.
edit: took so bloody long to write a response to all the foolishness that Incognito made a similar point, I might go and do something productive instead.
OH! Sorry, your stupid was momentarily inscrutable! Do you think that if you include a quote in your comment, you're not actually introducing the contents of that quote into the thread? That maybe it doesn't exist at all? Have you cast into existence some new principle of written communication?
" Do you think that if you include a quote in your comment, you're not actually introducing the contents of that quote into the thread? "
The contents of that quote were about organised labour. They were in direct response to your comment https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1748393. I made no comment about organised crime at all. My comment opened with the words ‘organised labour’, and was pointing you to a Royal Commission on organised LABOUR, that happened to show what a corrupt bunch they can be. You eityher have a very low IQ approach to conversation, or you’re just trolling for the sake of an argument. Either way, you’re a waste of time.
EDIT: “OH! Sorry, your stupid was momentarily inscrutable! ”
Low IQ it is.
[This is your words.
… the CFMEU has clear links to organised crime. [my italics]
I’m sensing you’re wasting our time.
I’m sensing that you’re a disingenuous commenter who does not own their own words.
I’m sensing that you’re not going to lift your game.
And yes I am outraged at the killing of George Floyd.
Well, you see, I don't believe you. You always have a "But…" in there.
We don’t repay or resolve injustice by punishing innocents, but by holding the perpetrators accountable.
It sounds almost plausible – if you devoted any energy at all to going after those perpetrators – the murdering cops, in case you've forgotten.
Because from what you've had to say so far you just want the protests to stop. You're more concerned with that, than justice for Floyd or reform of the US police to prevent reoccurrences.
The rule of law and the value of human life go hand in hand,
Are you seriously suggesting that a social experiment that hasn’t even been passed by voters has actually achieved anything? This is more likely to be an absolute disaster, but then neither of us know yet.
(Note – FYI the article concludes “Despite unanimous support Friday, the amendment faces a number of bureaucratic obstacles before voters can vote on it in November.” November. So it actually hasn’t ‘achieved’ a damn thing.)
Regardless of whether you think it will be a disaster, even placing the concept in front of the electorate is more progress on the issue than taking a knee ever got.
Because although many of the folks outraged by the current protests were also outraged by athletes daring to take a knee, in the end the athletes could be minimised and ignored. They tried it your way. They didn't even get the idea put before the city council, let alone the electorate.
"…even placing the concept in front of the electorate is more progress on the issue than taking a knee ever got."
It hasn't 'achieved' anything. The vote is yet to take place, and there is absolutely no guarantee an affirmative vote will lead to any positive change. At least 'taking a knee' has raised awareness.
" So "raising awareness" is more of an achievement than getting political action from a city council? "
Yes, it is. The policy action means nothing until it is affirmed by popular vote. Further, even if passed, the policy has achieved nothing until it actually produces favourable results. I would venture that the peaceful protests, which have had a positive impact across the planet, have achieved far more for the cause than opportunist nutcases rioting and looting.
"Raising awareness" is literally the least that can happen while still being a theoretical change from the status quo.
Working through the process of legislative change is still closer to achieving change than "raising awareness" even if it is eventually unsuccessful in this instance.
" Working through the process of legislative change is still closer to achieving change than "raising awareness" even if it is eventually unsuccessful in this instance. "
Rubbish. Raising awareness is here and now. Working through legislative change (in this case) leads to an as yet undermined vote by electors on what is at best a highly dubious policy.
You seem happy to sit back and wait for legislation that defies human nature. Raising awareness brings far more immediate public pressure to bear on an issue that needs addressing now.
lol so now removing a corrupt system developed to oppress people and replacing it with a less oppressive system of social support and public safety is "against human nature"?
"Raising awareness" means people know about something. Legislative change, especially via referendum, means people know about it and have the power to do something about it.
"lol so now removing a corrupt system developed to oppress people and replacing it with a less oppressive system of social support and public safety is "against human nature"?"
It's a lala land proposal.
""Raising awareness" means people know about something. Legislative change, especially via referendum, means people know about it and have the power to do something about it."
Meh. Youre referring to change that is basically at this point in time nothing more than a silly political idea. Come back when it's passed into law and been enacted and implemented for a few years. You know, when it’s actually had a chance to achieve anything.
So to recap, you regard "raising awareness" as some modicum of achievement.
But if actions raise a level of awareness that creates legislative action followed by a law-changing referendum and implementation of that law change, you'll want to wait a few years to see if it achieved anything.
" you regard "raising awareness" as some modicum of achievement. "
In the case of peaceful protest. most definitely. Athletes taking a knee have been viewed by tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of people across the planet.
"But if actions raise a level of awareness that creates legislative action followed by a law-changing referendum and implementation of that law change, you'll want to wait a few years to see if it achieved anything. "
There has been no law change, and there is no guarantee there will be. And even if there is, the result is a flaky social experiment that defies human nature.
Voting is neither here nor there in extremis – and when police are breaking into peoples homes and shooting them – extrajudicial killings in fact – a democracy relies on sensible decisions from incumbents to de-escalate the potential for violence. Legality comes later.
No chance of that from Trump of course – civil unrest is his main hope of re-election. But quite a few administrations across the US have successfully defused the issue.
" a democracy relies on sensible decisions from incumbents to de-escalate the potential for violence. "
Yes, I agree. However that shouldn't mean sacrificing the rule of law. We can be outraged by the killing of George Floyd and take meaningful action without condoning violence and looting.
The rule of law is not more sacrosanct than the lives of innocent citizens routinely extrajudicially killed in the US – except of course to you and those like you.
We can be outraged by the killing of George Floyd and take meaningful action without condoning violence and looting.
It's funny, but you don't give the impression of being outraged at the killings at all.
It's pretty simple accounting actually: violence and looting bad, murder by police officers very much worse. It's not rational to make the resolution of the major issue conditional on the minor one. But of course, that's not your object.
The rule of law and the value of human life go hand in hand, in my view.
And yes I am outraged at the killing of George Floyd. But two wrongs don't make a right. We don’t repay or resolve injustice by punishing innocents, but by holding the perpetrators accountable.
Morepork You are virtue signalling aren't you? Making proud statements about your high beliefs is insulting to the rest of us I think. As if we don't understand standards and good civil behaviour. However the talk is about cruel regimes and protest against them, which is something you appear to have trouble understanding is reality.
My 'high beliefs'? I see many commentators here who have beliefs I share. The objections I have expressed are quite specific. They related to Maui's comment here https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1747334, which are events in the here and now. I havn't commented at all about protests against cruel regimes. My comments have related to events in the US.
The difference is Amanda Marcotte doesn't have a long long history of shameless partisan lying, covers actual facts and evidence, and her links go to sources that are actually relevant and support her argument.
"… doesn't have a long long history of shameless partisan lying, "
There you go again. Jonathan Turley doesn't either. But you didn’t name him in response to my link, you just criticised the news source he was writing in. Shallow as.
You also haven’t posted any evidence that Marc Theissen does, either. I realise you don’t like the guy, but hell that doesn't make him wrong.
You're a fan of a partisan hack and and an evil POS?
Shallow.
Jonathan Turley, a law professor who appeared as a Republican witness in Wednesday’s impeachment hearings, made a number of claims that directly contradicted his previous statements and testimony.
On Wednesday, Turley argued there was no proof that President Donald Trump broke a specific law related to the Ukraine scandal and therefore should not be impeached.
But in 1998, Turley made the opposite case, telling Congress during former President Bill Clinton’s impeachment hearings that Clinton’s actions didn’t need to violate any laws in order to be impeachable conduct.
“While there’s a high bar for what constitutes grounds for impeachment, an offence does not have to be indictable,” he wrote in a 2014 op-ed for The Washington Post.
In “Courting Disaster: How the C.I.A. Kept America Safe and How Barack Obama Is Inviting the Next Attack,” Mr. Thiessen, a practicing Roman Catholic, says that waterboarding suspected terrorists was not only useful and desirable, but permitted by the teachings of the Catholic Church.
So you don’t like the guy's opinion on waterboarding, but you have no evidence that he has "a long long history of shameless partisan lying". That's good.
Meanwhile, Thurley is far from partisan. He "called for criminal prosecution of Bush administration officials for war crimes, including torture", and " He has written extensively in opposition to the death penalty, noting, "Human error remains a principal cause of botched executions… eventually society will be forced to deal directly with a fundamental moral question: Has death itself become the intolerable element of the death penalty?" and " Turley also has testified in Congress against President Bush's warrantless domestic surveillance program and was lead counsel in a case challenging it." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Turley
A right wing president who refuses to condemn the police execution of unarmed and innocent black men, and holds police officers up in high regard to the point that they are allowed to do anything they like and they will not be sanctioned or punished.
All these from 1, about 50 comments, and all connected to the USA. It's a big world out there. What about putting another country under the microscope, India for instance that seems under Modi to be going for a Muslim clear-out and possibly Christian too. What do Indians who come to this country think about other religions?
Murica is a distraction for us and right here we have got distracted with attacks on commenters here, and lots of acrimony. What's the point of enabling this farcical discussion purporting to be intelligent? Why can't commenters just leave drops of dirty water to dry up in the sunlight and disappear?
Odious Polly watch: Tony the Abbott's at it again on the Oz taxpayer.
Suggesting we leave the old to it and the virus run free. Perfect candidate for Boris to endorse for the trough. It’s in the guardian, I’d link but not on this device, apologies.
Yes Tony has had a major "kill granny to save the economy" moment. I think he is a very devout conservative catholic – funny the ideas that can co exist. Other than that I'm sure a large chunk of Australia will be delighted to palm him off on Boris.
It's only the poor little unborn zygotes that are sacred human life. Once you are actually born, your rights diminish to the point that adults can be cannon fodder in wartime, etc.
Interesting thoughts about where we are at present. Much of this resonates. It's why I'd rather see power sharing with Maori (60 seats each in parliament), work and leisure shared more evenly – 30 or less working hour week with work spread amongst more of the population, copyright periods reduced so more things entered the commons earlier. More leisure, more equality – time for people to pursue and experience more than economic growth.
"How did we get here? Every age has a paradigm of human organization. A set of defining principles and beliefs about what life is for. In the past, you can think of things like tribalism, feudalism, mercantilism, and so on. What’s our paradigm? Why isn’t it working?
Every paradigm’s end, purpose, defines it. We organize — whether countries, companies, societies, days, projects, investments — forjust one sole end: maximizing income. Whether it’s called GDP, profits, shareholder value, all are more or less different words for the same imperative: the most income over the smallest increment of time an organization can produce. This overarching social goal of maximizing income trickles down into maximizing incomes for corporations and firms and banks and households so on.
Today’s paradigm of human organization — which is a relic of the industrial age — is economic. Our lives — in fact, all life on the planet, in fact, all life in the universe, because life on this planet is the only life that we know of anywhere in existence — are thus oriented around the pursuit of a single end: maximizing short-term income.Maximizing immediate financial income is the sole purpose of all the life that we know of, which all the life that there is."
Resilience & sustainability. Because Labour & National still refuse to shift to it.
copyright periods reduced so more things entered the commons earlier
Damn right. Sharing & caring prioritised over private profit for long enough to retilt the balance societally.
More leisure, more equality
We were promised that throughout the 1960s, in endless media stories, social analysis, futurism, until a total consensus of expectation prevailed.
Then we were betrayed by Labour & National. In retrospect, it seems evident that both wings of the establishment were treating the people as suckers. It was a con.
Yeah it is like promising increased productivity leads to better wages – hope it doesn't.
Increased productivity means less people to do the job.You lay off those people unless you can increase sales/market share.
Your productivity means you can reduce your competition through selling at a lower cost. They lose their jobs. Less people to do the job means there is a pool of people unemployed who can do the job. A pool of unemployed who can do the job means you can replace errant workers as a workforce is available.
Productivity improvements can only result in less pay. Freezing works is a classic example.
…or less hours devoted to production, how the benefits of increased productivity are distributed is the key.
QFT
Higher productivity gives us choices that we didn't have before. We could all work less and have more leisure, we could have better education or we could have more R&D. There are, of course, even more choices.
Those choices were taken away from us so that the rich could get richer.
in simple terms yes…we have gifted the benefits of increased productivity to the wealthy so they can disproportionately use the real resources…but the choice has been with us since the advent of (modern) democracy, that we fail to grasp it is on us, though Im happy to concede that the vested interests devote their energies to making sure we dont believe we can…and im still not convinced we will manage it any better if we did realise our power.
but the choice has been with us since the advent of (modern) democracy
Modern Representative Democracy was designed to prevent democracy. The new rich at the end of the English Revolution didn't want democracy and the same was true after the American Revolution (Pols 202). What we got was a compromise that left the power in the hands of a few that were controlled by the rich.
As I say, an actual democracy is, by default, communist as its controlled by the people.
There are many impediments to enacting the desires of the majority but in a country such as NZ (possibly due to its size and global (in)significance) there are no real barriers to electing a policy platform that is opposed to the capitalist narrative…we have indeed done so before.
When the 4th Labour Gov (and Treasury) duped the NZ electorate how did we react?…did we elect New Labour or the Alliance when the opportunity arose?….no, we elected Douglas in female form.
They implied that they would undo the Douglass reforms
FPP which ensures that only two parties can exist and that one or the other must win
The problem now is that, even if we do show that we want something different, the government goes on with the 1980s reforms.
We actually need a majority Green government but most people are still wedded to either National or Labour. That will start changing soon as the Baby Boomers die off.
Disagree… we do not show we desire different by the simple fact we continue to vote for them…there have been alternatives not taken for the past 4 decades
And many of those alternative were voted for at the time but FPP prevented them from being in government. People who voted for them learned their lesson – don't vote for the under-dog. Even now with MMP people still hold onto that lesson.
MMP is also a problem. I will be voting for the Labour candidate in my electorate. I don't want to but having him in is better than having the National candidate.
And that logic has applied across the last four decades and more as FPP forces a vote for the lesser evil.
Which, again, is why everyone who wants a better democracy should be voting Green this election as they're looking to change the voting system to preferential.
EDIT:
And don’t forget that we’ve been educated to believe that we need rich people.
keep telling yourself that….the fact remains the majority of voters have supported the status quo….given whats in front of us that may (MAY) change…Im not going to hold my breath
Thanks Pat and Draco best sequence of comments in a long time. It needs to be repeated, because so many seem ignorant of it now. (Especially guys like Morepork, who somehow reminds me of someone I have read before on this site..)
I started secondary teaching in 1970. Alvin Toffler's Future Shock became the rage. We were told that in the future everyone would work shorter hours, and students needed to be educated to cope with much more leisure time. One period a week was devoted to 'Clubs' in the early-mid 80s. I remember taking groups for things like Chess, Cross-country, and the new sport of BMX about which I knew nothing.
How naive we were! If only I could have had the prescience (and cynicism) to have said at the time:
"No! This is all wrong! What we will in fact have is low wages, unemployment so that the poor are forced to accept shit wages; those who take such work will have less leisure time, not more, because they will have to take at least two jobs because of low pay, or even 3 because the 40-hour week would be gone, and 'flexibility' of hours would be their bane; and a large pool of unofficially unemployed underclass would emerge, not well enough off to indulge in the nice activities we were teaching them.
With hindsight, it was a farce. But it has taught me one thing: Never believe people who say we have to predict the future and teach students to be ready for it. That is Bullshit.
All we can prepare kids for is the likely prospect that the Rich will have tilted the playing field, and unless you are the children of the Rich, you will be in a society where social mobility will be ever-diminishing, so bad luck, dear students.
If there is one positive thing the internet could do its providing the information for the masses to decode the BS….sadly its also available to the vested interests and f**k, dont they make use of it.
The academics, who should have been the backstop were undermined years ago
Yep. By the way, have you seen the latest reality show?
Edit – By the way, it was accepted by most forward-looking teachers back then that the best gift we could give our students was to teach them to have good Bullshit-Detectors.
'Again…its on us….we get the government we deserve'
The discussion above has just shown us that we don't understand what we are voting for, we haven't been given the educational background to enable us to analyse, use our imagination. How can we then get the government 'we deserve'.
We don't understand how to form one, and how to plan for provision of citizen needs Our parents had no future planning ideas or philosophies to pass on, the schools didn't, the universities might have tried in say their Development studies. None of us have been fitted to know what to learn and then what to aim for, and the government we have is the default one from Roger Douglas's crony capitalism cult members.
Our leaders had 50 years after the end of WW2 to make a better world, and get us ready to think our way to a better democracy and face up to the early recognised environmental problems. But we didn't make it top priority.
I did some Social Policy and started on the thinking path. But by that time the government was turning away from representing people who wanted to be socially mobile and instead went hob-knobbing with the wealthy, skilled at the seagull tactics of whipping away our lives while they were in our hands on their way to providing for our future. All gone, nearly.
So don't be too judgmental, not for long, and praise those still trying, in a practical way. The idealists determined to realise their dreams of the 1970s by repeating the slogans of that time are wasting our time. Sit in your rocking chairs and offer some wisdom from time to time, the hewers of civilisation have to go further and wider to make any way safe for those wishing to be warm humans flourishing together with room for argument and disagreement, finally settled without insisting on the dictatorship of consensus. A future satisfactory, lived simply using all our skills, together. And it may be separate from the tech cities – the town and country thing in a different paradigm.
It is evident too many of us dont understand what we vote for…..thats what political parties are supposed to make clear.
We can blame 'education' or the lack of if you wish but the purpose of education I have always believed is to instruct us how to learn for ourselves….and even so it dosnt require formal education to develop ethics.
It is after all relatively simple….how can so few have far more than they could ever possibly use when so many have nothing?
"If that Government had been in charge now [during Covid-19], we’d have collateral damage of 3000 or 4000 elderly folk dead."
Mike Coleman, a red-zoned Anglican priest and school counsellor.
"As a New Zealander I’d backpacked around the world. You see some really corrupt governments, and I don’t think our government was corrupt in any sense, but you come home and go, “I’m in New Zealand. If something happens, they’re going to back me.” And lots of times, governments do.
This is about post-earthquake and what National chose not to do for the people that would have been fair and appropriate, and how if National had been in power at the start of the Covid-19 outbreak, and behaved in the same dilatory, apathetic, unethical way, the deaths would have been in the thousands.
Thank God we have this government in at this time, and can people who don't want National's dilatory, apathetic, unethical pattern of government, please rise up and give a tick to the Party who will be there for us, working out how to manage the increasing negative events that are forecast to impact on us.
why bother?the polling was taken two weeks ago, and considering the brouhaha since, the only poll relevant is the next one coming out. That will be the fun one.
While Greenies can be relatively satisfied with their Party's 3.5 point increase to 11.5% in the latest Roy Morgan … best they don't become too euphoric or take the figure literally.
Roy Morgan tend to overstate Green support….
For example, the Greens rated 10.5% in the RM in both Jan & Feb 2020 … and 11.5% in March.
Around the same time, they were on 5.0% in the Colmar Brunton & 5.6% in Reid Research (with their ratings in Party Internals – Curia & UMR – taking an intermediate position at 7.0% & 9.0% respectively).
(That’s putting aside, of course, any fallout from the latest micro-scandal involving affluent New Age Hippies, Private Schools, Crystals, aromatherapy, hands-on-healing & the channeling of some sort of mysterious universal energies known only to the terminally self-indulgent)
Perhaps poor James could just play a recording of Woof Woof the Tui vocalising, RIP Woof-Woof. Nothing James does or says manages to please – he could invite people to choose one of Woof-woofs offerings to save him from opening his mouth and putting his foot in it. Perhaps while they are looking towards the sounds, James could sneak away and manage to get something done, going in a forward direction.
Uhhh, yeah. Always a good thing to respond to reports of your spare wheel being told to be ready to step in by asserting that reports of mini-strokes are FAKE NEWS. Leaving everyone to ask: what's this about mini-strokes?
Reckon this is one of Trump's dead cats. He can win it by getting the story circulating, and since it isn't actually true, he can actually debunk it. Scores points with his base, erodes confidence in MSM.
That all seems a bit too subtle and complex for Hair Twitler's non-thought processes. Possibly more of a failed attempt to plant an association of strokes with Biden.
"It never ends! Now they are trying to say that your favorite President, me, went to Walter Reed Medical Center, having suffered a series of mini-strokes. Never happened to THIS candidate – FAKE NEWS," he tweeted.
Trump then seemed to use his trip to Walter Reed, where Joe Biden's son Beau died from brain cancer, as a way to question the Democratic nominee's health, adding, "Perhaps they are referring to another candidate from another Party!"
One of the questions I'd be asking of the 'strong team' is why any responsible for this lying, false and smearing (herself and others) misinformation should actually think that they should be doing it on behalf of the National Party.
Not just the name of Judith Collins associated with it.
The rank false letterhead.
The misquoting.
The lying by deception.
The lying by omission.
"Who are you that you think such lies and deception should be part of a political campaign?"
But she won't.
The same question to be asked of her husband since he chose also to enter the political arena with the same style of puerile and belittling characterisations.
National does not deserve the 28% that Roy Morgan awards it!
It's blisteringly obvious Melania can't stand him. She finds him understandably repellent, so I hope the money keeps her warm at night. I feel sorry for Barron. He's likely going to grow up to be a dysfunctional young man, which is a tragedy.
I know that some will disagree but the current hysterical attack on the green party is starting to smell of dirty politics. Of course the journos are always looking for the latest gotcha and are willing dupes of anyone willing to provide it but it feels like more than that to me.
The whole new age thing seems deliberately calculated to rile the christian fundies even though they are not going to be GP supporters anyway, but it does remind me of the exclusive brethren thing.
agree mango. I expect more attempted hit jobs on greens and nzfirst. if you cant dent jacinda's popularity, the next targets are the gov support parties. theres one journo(?) in particular that seems to specialise in hit jobs on nzfirst. must be time for him to crawl out from whatever rock he dwells under.
Families divided by belief systems – what else is new? 🙄
Since the Covid-19 pandemic began, New Zealand, along with many other countries, has seen a spike in the number of conspiracy theories being shared online. Ideas that were once fringe are becoming more mainstream.
Grant says his parents are just ageing lefty hippies, who have some alternative views… Grant* is considering secretly cutting off his parents' internet connection, which may sound dramatic, but he is desperate.
He's tried talking to them privately about the videos and articles they share on social media – the ones that make false, often conflicting claims about almost everything – from Bill Gates, vaccinations, microchips and Agenda 2030 – the United Nations' sustainable development goals – to 5G, 'Big Pharma', and far-right theories about Trump and hydroxychloroquine.
Well, no. People believe what they want. Trying to persuade others to believe what you believe never works. The best you can hope to achieve is raising awareness of alternative views. Facts sometimes work too – but that depends on palatability.
It went viral and Grant's parents, who were already against vaccination, shared it on Facebook, believing it was true. What saddens Grant about all this, is that though his mum and dad are sharing misinformation, adding to an already raging infodemic during a global crisis, they're not bad people.
They believe what they're sharing is true. "They have good hearts. They're coming from a good place. They're not trying to hurt anyone. They think they're helping people," he says… When Grant tried to speak to them, he was stonewalled.
I suspect his experience is a happening thing up & down the country nowadays.
If academic theories about socio-economic status, education and a lack of power making people vulnerable to conspiracy thinking are correct, then the cumulative effects of colonisation means Māori are some of the most at risk.
It's something that researcher and environmentalist Tina Ngata (Ngāti Porou) has thought about a lot in her work combating the spread of false information… "it is really easy to believe that there are people out there with ill intentions toward you, that there are people out there who want to continue to dispossess you, and that that intention will extend to wiping you out, because that's in our history," Ngata says. "So when people want to suggest that there is a greater power out there, seeking to take everything off you… It's only too believable when that experience, it's in your DNA."
Inasmuch as the control system has always worked via deceit, discovery of that (via reading history or websites) can induce an internal binary trigger, flipping people from sheeple status into the supposed cognoscenti. Those with critical faculties may not succumb to an alternative belief system (natural sceptics tend not to become victims) but many happily replace the trad narrative with a seductive alternative, uncritically.
If the establishment were to stop lying to everyone, the potential for mass sociopathy would not be so dangerous. The mental health of the public remains vulnerable to delusions via contagion as long as the political left & right refuse to behave themselves.
edit
Those with university degrees now and particularly in science, feel that everything they know is invulnerable to any other point of view. They cite evidence-based as their mantra, which relates back to Age of Enlightment views setting reason and evidence against church edicts and dogma beliefs.
But now the belief is in the correctness of anything that gets presented from some learning institution, in words and figures with some provenance; the thought that so-called evidence based stuff has to be checked for bias is broadly by-passed. And stuff that the older person knows from lifelong learning and observing is of no more significance than anything that has been picked out the broad mass of memes always circling. In fact if it isn't touted as a new idea by media, it is old hat, and not the Sorting Hat either.
So, Mrs Wong-Tung 'didn't even know about' the fake ad she authorised. How then can she claim to be across her role? And how can she criticise others for not being across theirs?
Mrs Wong-Tung is calling for James Shaw to resign over the Green School funding decision. This is the dead cat strategy we knew she would use to distract from her own failings as a leader and a wife.
collins doesnt seem to know whether to come across as crusher or cushla. maybe having a doorstop for a deputy hasnt helped. for a party that pushes the team word, she seems to be doing all of the heavy lifting. anybody seen any of her team?
I think they are all busy scurrying around looking and digging for dirt plus writing false ads that she then has to deny or ringing up talkback radio shows……they're really busy people.
The 'strong team' might be trying to dissociate itself from the strong stench coming from the top table.
The strong team is so strong that it can write lying messages using the imprimatur of their leader seemingly without fear of the strong leader's disapproval.
nah, he just pissed that he put forward a proposal that ain't shovel ready. Nothing nicer for rich listers who don't pay taxes is to get their hands on some tax money. He should go into education, i hear its more profitable.
"Six weeks ago they delivered a report to officials after field trials, but are yet to be given any indication of a decision. The project would cost $100 million and take about five months to roll out, which is why Morgan says a decision needs to be made quickly."
Windbag, weathervane, weather-vain – Queen with Bohemian Rhapsody sing 'Anyway the wind blows doesn't really matter to me, to me…'
We wonder: Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality
Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see..
I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy
Because I'm easy come, easy go, little high, little low
Any way the wind blows doesn't really matter to me, to me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9rUzIMcZQ
Nice – Eric Clapton JJ Cale – Anyway the wind blows
About that idea of covid testing people before being allowed to board flights to NZ: there's been plenty of reasoned explanation why that's pointless, but here's the proof:
the point of testing before flying isn't to catch false negatives, it's to catch asymptomatic, presymptomatic, and low symptomatic positives and stop them getting on a plane with the virus with other people who don't have it. It's about lowering risk of transmission on planes*.
There are compelling reasons not to test pre-flight, but they're around fairness for returning NZers, not ideas about perfection in testing.
*I never saw the science on whether that would work mind.
In terms of Mein Drumpf more directly, his ongoing actions and statements around the Central Park Five suggest quite strongly he would support lynching if that were still a thing.
Contrast this compensation payment for a workplace related incident with the compensation payment for tenants who had their front door stolen and positions damaged but their landlord. $20K vs 6K.
Employment law strong. Tenancy law very, very weak.
Having been through the Tenancy Tribunal recently, which resulted in a termination order for the tenants, the process was very balanced.
The tribunal hearing made a judgement ONLY on the failure to pay rent.
The fact that although the police told us to write down and record his abusive behaviour, and we had 20 pages of incidents and sound recordings as well as texts that took hours to collate, were not heard at the Tribunal. The mediator told us – do you want him out or not? When I replied yes, but surely it would be better for others if there is a record of his abusive behaviour? The mediator said – well, I have to give a termination order for unpaid rent, so I will. If I give a termination order for abusive behaviour – it will likely be overturned, so I suggest you just take the unpaid rent option and it's over.
I am an advocate for fair treatment of people. Whether tenants or landlords. The experience of going through the Tribunal process – at the instigation of the tenant who didn't bother to turn up, makes me believe that the process is not as efficient or effective as it could be. It doesn't make me think that the process is slanted towards the landlords, if anything, it errs on the side of the tenant.
The issue over compensation of two separate cases in two different areas of law, is a red herring.
My experience with the TT as a renter a long time ago was very good. I took the complaint because the landlord wouldn't return my bond. I got paid out because the landlord was unreasonable, treated the process without respect, and ignored the ruling the first time.
I will say however that I prepared and presented really well, had good support, and have my middle class background that helps me read the room pretty well in situations like that. I can imagine the same set of circumstances going against a tenant up against a landlord who presented well and where the tenant didn’t.
The process should work in such a way that whoever is at fault is found to be at fault, and asked to remediate or be fined accordingly. Whether they are landlord or tenant. The power imbalance regarding this relationship needs to be considered and I believe there are changes that could make this process much better. The use of a mediator before the hearing is set may be the answer, but we did not experience this for ourselves.
(In our case, after awaiting mediator hearing by phone, the time and date for this session was interrupted by the police attending once again, as the tenant ran down the road in his underpants after taking his partner's phone as she didn't want to participate.)
After ten days of the mediator trying to get back in touch with the tenant, we asked that it be moved on to the hearing, as the mediation process was going nowhere. But that may be the best avenue to addressing the power imbalance if done correctly.
But the idea that all landlords are treating tenants badly, is not going to assist in resolving issues.
I agree. Mediation wasn't available when I went through that but it sounds like it would useful for many.
it sounds like your situation was quite specific. I'm guessing most problems are things like bond not being returned, or tenant damaging property/not paying rent.
Surely at the point where he removed the front door there would be a criminal offence of some thing like breaking and entering and dusting for finger prints on their stuff would confirm entry. Tenants are entitled to quiet enjoyment of the property whilst renting. His actions to me go beyond any civil offence – pretty similar to putting camera's on tenants.
I haven't seen the article that Muttonbird refers to. He hasn't linked. But comparing the two issues, seems disingenious.
In response to the camera issue, the police (who were almost always called by the tenant himself to sort out an argument between him and his partner), kept asking us to video record the tenant, which we refused to do.
The police were ineffective with making us feel safe in our home, in a different landlord situation, the neighbours would have been in the same position, and they would have had to present at the hearing with the understanding that they may have to return home to live next door to the person they testified against.
I don't think Muttonbird's comparison of two separate court rulings gives a reasonable perspective into tenancy rights.
Ah I wasn't clear I was referring to the landlords who faced criminal charges after setting up cameras to record tenants in the rental – like in the shower – the perverted stuff.
I don't know about that case, but given what you said, I agree that they should face criminal charges, whether landlord, flatmate or otherwise.
The one grey links to below, shows the law working as it should. The landlord did not follow any of the responsibilities of a landlord and this was noted and he was fined accordingly.
As an aside, that doesn't mean that the law at present is effective. The inability of the police to aid the tenants in this case, show that work needs to be done. (As neighbours, the police were equally ineffective and unable to assist, although they asked more than once for us to videotape the neighbours/tenants to help them with prosecution.)
Strangely enough, one of the police issues was that our tenants had wilfully signed the tenancy agreement stating that neither of them was a minor. The male partner started ringing the police to evict his female partner from the flat saying that she was not a valid tenant.
After several instances of this happening, I called the Tenancy Services who had to get back to me after checking with their legal team. Their advice: despite knowingly signing the agreement knowing the information to be false, the female tenant had all the rights of a tenant, BUT none of the liability. Once I informed the police of this, they stopped trying to get her to leave the property on the whim of her partner.
It was only recently that I wondered: what if they both were under the age of 18 and knowingly signed the agreement stating they were not? What does that mean for any damages or rent arrears arising from a tenancy such as that?
As for the original comment, it is just that I don't think that comparison between an employment issue, and a tenancy issue is useful in a conversation about tenancy rights and responsible renting practice.
The new rule is the same as the old rule: please provide a link if you want to improve the quality and flow of commentary here, especially when asked by other commenters. The bold font tends to be reserved for recidivist offenders and smart alecs.
We have a hole lot of kit set houses, tiny houses etc all 'made in NZ' and non of them is the issue.
The high cost of housing in NZ is due to the high cost of land. And China can provide a box for 0.50NZD per pop if the patch of dirt you want to put the box on is 450.000$ plus you still don't have an affordable property.
Repeat, the house has no value, its the land that carries the value.
Imagine, if land suddenly became available and affordable via the “magic wand” called zoning that local councils have. Allowing multiple small houses closely packed together.
The cost of a plot can vary wildly depending on its location, as does the cost of actually having the property built. This starts from around $1,700 per square metre. $2,000-2,500 is more common, and $3,000 is what you should expect if you’re having something custom built.
are there any jobs near the affordable plots of land? Next quetsion.
That too is a big part in the artificially created unaffordability housing saga of these fair lands.
We have whole towns with empty houses, empty town centres and no one wants to move there as the only way of living there would be on Winz. And so as long as that is not even considered – and now the shovel ready jobs in construction are not really an incentive to move anywhere as these jobs are only temporary. Once the construction is over the jobs are gone. Mind one local may get to be a jantior or a school cook or a cleaner but even that is not good enough to get people to move there.
So only looking at a cheap kitset house is faulty, as is looking only at the price of land.
Repeat, houses can be cheap, but land in places with job opportunities is very expensive. Houses in areas with no jobs tend to be very very cheap, and yet they would still be too expensive while trying to make it on the benefit.
So please don't pull up a paid advertisment for some realtors that would like to flock of some land in no–job country.
the other part of this equation is that many of those cheap sections in empty towns come with a huge rates bill that would shock aucklanders who think their rates are high. someone needs to fund these provincial councils and it sure as hell isnt the surrounding farmers, who while watching their land values skyrocket, have mostly managed to keep their rates bill artificially low.
No easy answer on housing. Central government could help by enabling small pockets of tiny houses that would be looked after well, gardens, covered outdoor areas, some rented some bought from Trusts as a form of saving, to be repaid from Trust when sold back. On transport, near shopping centre, schools. Carrying forward Schumacher's 'Small is Beautiful'. Local Councils funded to start similar.
Get started, give people a place to be, help them with security of tenure, and able to join a group that helps others in similar housing communities – helping each other with shifting stuff, repairing stuff, and can call for assistance for themselves. Time bank stuff. Learn skills, resilience and support community with conviviality – nice word. Individuality within stable, good community – way to go.
A Horizon Research survey, commissioned for Helius Therapeutics and provided exclusively to Stuff, shows that the forces of legalisation and prohibition are neck and neck at 49.5 per cent each … Conducted between 20 and 25 August, the survey sampled over 1300 New Zealanders, and has a margin of error of 2.7 per cent.
National voters remain strongly opposed with 83 per cent against the bill, while 58 per cent of ACT voters are now also against the change – possibly reflecting their higher polling. Green Party voters continue to strengthen their support with 94 per cent in favour; 61 per cent of Labour voters are in favour, as are 58 per cent of NZ First voters.
The problem for the Nats is that outbreak of liberally painting on slow-setting glue to their chairs. The poor dears are getting gradually more isolated and feeble as they expend their energy endeavouring to rise from their seats just to go to the toilet. The thought of changing anything to make the world a better place for other people, must be considered carefully because it would create a precedent for them, having done it once they will be expected to do it again. Exhausting, the responsibility on one! /sarc – for the feeble minded.
any act voter in favour of continueing prohibition shows their complete hypocrisy. thought they were the party of small gov, personal freedom etc? expect nat voters to want the status quo, thats a conservative view, but thought act voters were cut from different cloth(yeah right)
Research from the Child Action Poverty Group shows incomes for all households receiving benefits and/or superannuation will drop by $63 a week for families and couples, and $41 a week for single adults.
The Child Poverty Action Group (CPAG) and Auckland Action Against Poverty are both backing Agnes' call – CPAG researcher Janet McAllister said the payment had not doubled this year because of winter energy, but because of Covid.
As was the 25NZD increase in the base benefit. Without covid non of these payments would have happened in the first place. Maybe that is something to think about?
The chair of the government's own Welfare Expert Advisory Group, Cindy Kiro, said the welfare system simply wasn't working.
"Whatever justification you want to use people to pay people who desperately need more money, more money is fine by me – you can call it a Covid wage extension, you can call it a Covid hardship extension – you can call it a 'summer' winter payment – I don't care what you call it."
never mind the Minister has no issues with the poverty levels as they are, after all what would Carmel Sepuloni and hte Labour Party run on if not 'kinder gentler war on the poor'.
Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni said there were no plans to keep the money going – but it wasn't the only boost beneficiaries had received as part of the government's $5 billion families package.
We're learning more about how the govt does regional development, thanks to Richard Harman.
The decision to fund the Taranaki green school was made after warnings from Labour Ministers that it should not be funded and after Cabinet’s Economic Committee had rejected funding for it. POLITIK has learned that the funding decision came only after Greens co-leader, James Shaw, insisted that it be funded. https://www.politik.co.nz/2020/09/02/the-greens-ideological-tantrums/ | Politik
Shaw said he was introduced to Rachel and Mike Perrett who have founded the school by New Plymouth mayor, Neil Holdom. Mike Perrett founded HRV, a nationwide heating and ventilating company and has plans to make the green schools global. Holdom is a strong supporter. “New Zealand has a long history of innovation and leadership and what the world needs now are more environmental entrepreneurs tackling the problems brought on by a rapidly growing population, unable or unwilling to mitigate its impact on our planet,” he said in July. “We need to support the Green School New Zealand team and help them transform their vision into reality in Taranaki, as a gift to our children.”
Venture Taranaki also supported the school. Its CEO, Justine Gilliland, said the international education market was worth $51 million to Taranaki’s economy, “and by aligning our strengths with global demand, this could grow.” But none of this impressed the Labour and NZ First Ministers who approve funding like that for shovel ready projects.
Who's guilty, then?
Those projects were initially evaluated by Associate Finance Minister, David Parker; Finance Minister, Grant Robertson; Economic Development Minister, Phil Twyford and Regional Economic Development Minister, Shane Jones.
The projects were then considered by the Cabinet Economic Committee chaired by Robertson and with 17 members including James Shaw and Eugenie Sage from the Greens. POLITIK understands that the Labour and New Zealand First Ministers on the committee refused to agree to fund going to the green school.
So even though the regional heads in Taranaki were dead keen, the Labour/NZF ministers were dead against. So much for the credibility of coalition regional development policy. Ain't worth shit.
Gordon Campbell reckons James' mistake "now risks alienating another Green constituency: teachers in state schools."
I don't believe teachers are so highly-strung that they'll abandon the Green Party over this, especially given James' apology; teachers know to blame the behaviour, not the person.
Nor do I think The Greens have lost the confidence and support of Gordon Campbell; he’s not flakey.
Campbell is great journalist, a solid fact-based leftie.
Because of this I think perhaps he should read Dennis Frank's post above re the process that was taken to approve the (non-education budget) cash for the Green School.
Shaw's opinion was supported by the Taranaki region (the mayor/Venture Taranaki) and qualified as a somewhat green, job rich and innovative shovel ready project.
Shaw's small error of judgement needs to be contrasted with his solid support for Climate Change measures and for a Wealth Tax that will raise $7.9 billion annually to alleviate poverty. Context is everything.
The media has targeted Shaw to try to get the Greens under 5%, as with Matiria Turei in 2017.
Thing is, the wealth tax is a solid turn-off to a segment of voters that might vote green.
Shovelling a load of taxpayer money at an elitist eco-mysticism (lovely euphemism) private school is likely to be another solid turn-off to the same segment.
Another big turn-off is the absence of anyone high on the list of the calibre and substance of the likes of Hague or Graham or Norman that give the impression of seeing ways to implement environmental improvement in the context of a modern, population-dense, technological society. Hell, even Gareth Hughes has pulled the pin. Genter and Sage are certainly solid in their areas of interest, but realistically they seem limited in range. Shaw seemed to have represented that aspect of green thought, but if it turns out he's fully on board with woo-woo …
James Shaw did exceptional work on the Climate Change legislation; his skills were lauded near and far. It's difficult to see why you wouldn't consider that "environmental improvement in the context of a modern, population-dense, technological society."
You last sentence seems nonsensical. Perhaps you too woo woo?
I'm not ignoring it, it's part of the balance I'm considering, and that others I know consider. But it's only one factor and nowhere near enough on its own to outweigh a whole lot of negatives that are adding up.
So you don't think James Shaw is someone, " high on the list of the calibre and substance of the likes of Hague or Graham or Norman that give the impression of seeing ways to implement environmental improvement in the context of a modern, population-dense, technological society.", as per your comment?
I used to. But if he put it all on the line for the Green School after meeting the owners, as described in Harman's article, then I now really have serious doubts.
Jobs, green infrastructure instead of brown, lots of support from local council, those where the boxes ticked and it's pretty clear why Shaw was supportive. Looks to me like people are using the crystal workshop stuff as an excuse, because really it has nothing to do with the contract. Am still waiting for lefties to have a go at Māori for including woo in their education.
The quote was an opinion that Ad said was notable because of the author's position. I don't know the author's CV, but do know AC was in a position that fits the description.
I tend to agree with Robert, though – the cockup caused a rucus, but I doubt the ripples will last until the election.
Shaw made a mistake, the Greens concentrate on what matters most, just not great sellers of it. Not for a millisecond will I put aside helping the neediest as the Greens promise, unlike Labour.
More pork Theisen employed by a GOP superpac telling more porkies on behalf of Trump.He is not a journalist merely writes propaganda opinion pieces every 2 weeks in the Washington post.
Nicola Willis failed miserably to pin anything to James Shaw at Question Time. James is another adroit, capable politician who can, as Grant Robertson showed today, defeat quibble with straight answers.
I watched that one too, she was terrible. nat's used QT today to put the knife into James. A great distraction from their own misgivings, especially considering the ChCh earthquake rebuild report that's just been released.
Had Shaw not funded the green school or whatever it is, we would be subject to barrage after barrage of press releases condemning him for being 'ideologically opposed to private education', 'beholden to the teachers unions', 'a watermelon' and so on.
"The James Shaw political pile-on is off the charts after Newshub revealed he strong-armed ministerial colleagues to get funding for the controversial privately-owned Taranaki Green School." (My bold/James' bold!)
"Strong-armed" – James Shaw! Go James. Deploy that strong arm of yours! On your ministerial colleagues! It's the Green Way!!!! KAPOW!!!
How come that loony managed to break James' eye socket when he punched him? James you bruiser, we need you at the gym keeping up those fitness upper-body building tactics – get that strong-arm going – Now.
Jane Patterson RNZ Political Editor here having her dig at Shaw so she can be in sync with all the other excited, outraged etc. journos.
She's turned nautical: Power Play – This time last election James Shaw captained the Green Party through the stormy waters after Metiria Turei's dramatic resignation – now he's in danger of capsizing the ship himself.
I remember a pleasure boat filled with happy holidaymakers tuning turtle while tied at the wharf, USA I think. There was a great loss of life. The reason – something of interest appeared on one side – everyone rushed to see it – the boat tipped over. If the Right manage to catch people's idle minds with this squawking about green education, private, etc the whole election could sink.
It's time for all true Greens to stand by their leader, stay away from the controversy, largely stay schtum, and remember that the Greens have been trying for many elections to get stuff done. James was elected to try a new approach so all you austere, lean, outdoor types have been relatively unsuccessful. STFU now, show your intelligence and restraint, and get done what is available. Once the green education thing gets going, it could be fine-tuned to face the right direction. So don't stymie a positive change that they have agreed to in Taranaki.
At present there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
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Roger Partridge writes – When the Coalition Government took office last October, it inherited a country on a precipice. With persistent inflation, decades of insipid productivity growth and crises in healthcare, education, housing and law and order, it is no exaggeration to suggest New Zealand’s first-world status was ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – In 2022, the Curriculum Centre at the Ministry of Education employed 308 staff, according to an Official Information Request. Earlier this week it was announced 202 of those staff were being cut. When you look up “The New Zealand Curriculum” on the Ministry of ...
Chris Bishop’s bill has stirred up a hornets nest of opposition. Photo: Lynn Grieveson for The KākāTL;DR: The six things that stood out to me in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, poverty and climate from the last day included:A crescendo of opposition to the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill is ...
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The allure of sport transcends age, culture, and geographical boundaries. It captivates hearts, ignites passions, and provides unparalleled entertainment. Behind the spectacle, however, lies a fascinating world of financial investment and expenditure. Among the vast array of competitive pursuits, one question looms large: which sport carries the hefty title of ...
Introduction Pickleball, a rapidly growing paddle sport, has captured the hearts and imaginations of millions around the world. Its blend of tennis, badminton, and table tennis elements has made it a favorite among players of all ages and skill levels. As the sport’s popularity continues to surge, the question on ...
Abstract: Soccer, the global phenomenon captivating millions worldwide, has a rich history that spans centuries. Its origins trace back to ancient civilizations, but the modern version we know and love emerged through a complex interplay of cultural influences and innovations. This article delves into the fascinating journey of soccer’s evolution, ...
Tinting car windows offers numerous benefits, including enhanced privacy, reduced glare, UV protection, and a more stylish look for your vehicle. However, the cost of window tinting can vary significantly depending on several factors. This article provides a comprehensive guide to help you understand how much you can expect to ...
The pungent smell of gasoline in your car can be an alarming and potentially dangerous problem. Not only is the odor unpleasant, but it can also indicate a serious issue with your vehicle’s fuel system. In this article, we will explore the various reasons why your car may smell like ...
Tree sap can be a sticky, unsightly mess on your car’s exterior. It can be difficult to remove, but with the right techniques and products, you can restore your car to its former glory. Understanding Tree Sap Tree sap is a thick, viscous liquid produced by trees to seal wounds ...
The amount of paint needed to paint a car depends on a number of factors, including the size of the car, the number of coats you plan to apply, and the type of paint you are using. In general, you will need between 1 and 2 gallons of paint for ...
Jump-starting a car is a common task that can be performed even in adverse weather conditions like rain. However, safety precautions and proper techniques are crucial to avoid potential hazards. This comprehensive guide will provide detailed instructions on how to safely jump a car in the rain, ensuring both your ...
Graham Adams writes about the $55m media fund — When Patrick Gower was asked by Mike Hosking last week what he would say to the many Newstalk ZB callers who allege the Labour government bribed media with $55 million of taxpayers’ money via the Public Interest Journalism Fund — and ...
Note: this blog post has been put together over the course of the week I followed the happenings at the conference virtually. Should recordings of the Great Debates and possibly Union Symposia mentioned below, be released sometime after the conference ends, I'll include links to the ones I participated in. ...
The following was my submission made on the “Fast Track Approvals Bill”. This potential law will give three Ministers unchecked powers, un-paralled since the days of Robert Muldoon’s “Think Big” projects.The submission is written a bit tongue-in-cheek. But it’s irreverent because the FTAB is in itself not worthy of respect. ...
One Could Reduce Child Poverty At No Fiscal CostFollowing the Richardson/Shipley 1990 ‘redesign of the welfare state’ – which eliminated the universal Family Benefit and doubled the rate of child poverty – various income supplements for families have been added, the best known being ‘Working for Families’, introduced in 2005. ...
Buzz from the Beehive A few days ago, Point of Order suggested the media must be musing “on why Melissa is mute”. Our article reported that people working in the beleaguered media industry have cause to yearn for a minister as busy as Melissa Lee’s ministerial colleagues and we drew ...
1. What was The Curse of Jim Bolger?a. Winston Peters b. Soon after shaking his hand, world leaders would mysteriously lose office or shuffle off this mortal coilc. Could never shake off the Mother of All Budgetsd. Dandruff2. True or false? The Chairman of a Kiwi export business has asked the ...
Jack Vowles writes – New Zealand is said to be suffering from ‘serious populist discontent’. An IPSOS MORI survey has reported that we have an increasing preference for strong leaders, think that the economy is rigged toward the rich and powerful, and political elites are ignoring ‘hard-working people’. ...
Chris Trotter writes – MELISSA LEE should be deprived of her ministerial warrant. Her handling – or non-handling – of the crisis engulfing the New Zealand news media has been woeful. The fate of New Zealand’s two linear television networks, a question which the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications ...
TL;DR: The podcast above features co-hosts and , along with regular guests Robert Patman on Gaza and AUKUS II, and on climate change.The six things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the ...
Policymakers rarely wish to make plain or visible their desire to dismantle environmental policy, least of all to the young. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above between Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent ...
I like to keep an eye on what’s happening in places like the UK, the US, and over the ditch with our good mates the Aussies. Let’s call them AUKUS, for want of a better collective term. More on that in a bit.It used to be, not long ago, that ...
TL;DR: The global economy will be one fifth smaller than it would have otherwise been in 2050 as a result of climate damage, according to a new study by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK) and published in the journal Nature. (See more detail and analysis below, and ...
New Zealand is said to be suffering from ‘serious populist discontent’. An IPSOS MORI survey has reported that we have an increasing preference for strong leaders, think that the economy is rigged toward the rich and powerful, and political elites are ignoring ‘hard-working people’. The data is from February this ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters is understood to be planning a major speech within the next fortnight to clear up the confusion over whether or not New Zealand might join the AUKUS submarine project. So far, there have been conflicting signals from the Government. RNZ reported the Prime Minister yesterday in ...
Life throws curveballs, and sometimes, those curveballs necessitate wiping your iPhone clean and starting anew. Whether you’re facing persistent software glitches, preparing to sell your device, or simply wanting a fresh start, knowing how to factory reset iPhone without a computer is a valuable skill. While using a computer with ...
Gone are the days when communication was limited to landline phones and physical proximity. Today, computers have become powerful tools for connecting with people across the globe through voice and video calls. But with a plethora of applications and methods available, how to call someone on a computer might seem ...
Open access notables Glacial isostatic adjustment reduces past and future Arctic subsea permafrost, Creel et al., Nature Communications:Sea-level rise submerges terrestrial permafrost in the Arctic, turning it into subsea permafrost. Subsea permafrost underlies ~ 1.8 million km2 of Arctic continental shelf, with thicknesses in places exceeding 700 m. Sea-level variations over glacial-interglacial cycles control ...
The operating system (OS) is the heart and soul of a computer, orchestrating every action and interaction between hardware and software. But have you ever wondered where on a computer is the operating system generally stored? The answer lies in the intricate dance between hardware and software components, particularly within ...
Laptops have become essential tools for work, entertainment, and communication, offering portability and functionality. However, with rising energy costs and growing environmental concerns, understanding a laptop’s power consumption is more important than ever. So, how many watts does a laptop use? The answer, unfortunately, isn’t straightforward. It depends on several ...
Screen recording has become an essential tool for various purposes, such as creating tutorials, capturing gameplay footage, recording online meetings, or sharing information with others. Fortunately, Dell laptops offer several built-in and external options for screen recording, catering to different needs and preferences. This guide will explore various methods on ...
A cracked or damaged laptop screen can be a frustrating experience, impacting productivity and enjoyment. Fortunately, laptop screen repair is a common service offered by various repair shops and technicians. However, the cost of fixing a laptop screen can vary significantly depending on several factors. This article delves into the ...
Gaming laptops represent a significant investment for passionate gamers, offering portability and powerful performance for immersive gaming experiences. However, a common concern among potential buyers is their lifespan. Unlike desktop PCs, which allow for easier component upgrades, gaming laptops have inherent limitations due to their compact and integrated design. This ...
The annual inventory report of New Zealand's greenhouse gas emissions has been released, showing that gross emissions have dropped for the third year in a row, to 78.4 million tons: All-told gross emissions have decreased by over 6 million tons since the Zero Carbon Act was passed in 2019. ...
Experiencing a locked computer can be frustrating, especially when you need access to your files and applications urgently. The methods to unlock your computer will vary depending on the specific situation and the type of lock you encounter. This guide will explore various scenarios and provide step-by-step instructions on how ...
While the world has largely transitioned to digital communication, faxing still holds relevance in certain industries and situations. Fortunately, gone are the days of bulky fax machines and dedicated phone lines. Today, you can easily send and receive faxes directly from your computer, offering a convenient and efficient way to ...
In our increasingly digital world, home computers have become essential tools for work, communication, entertainment, and more. However, this increased reliance on technology also exposes us to various cyber threats. Understanding these threats and taking proactive steps to protect your home computer is crucial for safeguarding your personal information, finances, ...
In the ever-evolving world of technology, server-based computing has emerged as a cornerstone of modern digital infrastructure. This article delves into the concept of server-based computing, exploring its various forms, benefits, challenges, and its impact on the way we work and interact with technology. Understanding Server-Based Computing: At its core, ...
The absolute brass neck of this guy.We want more medical doctors, not more spin doctors, Luxon was saying a couple of weeks ago, and now we’re told the guy has seven salaried adults on TikTok duty. Sorry, doing social media. The absolute brass neck of it. The irony that the ...
Buzz from the Beehive Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones relishes spatting and eagerly takes issue with environmentalists who criticise his enthusiasm for resource development. He relishes helping the fishing industry too. And so today, while the media are making much of the latest culling in the public service to ...
Having written, taught and worked for the US government on issues involving unconventional warfare and terrorism for 30-odd years, two things irritate me the most when the subject is discussed in public. The first is the Johnny-come-lately academics-turned-media commentators who … Continue reading → ...
Eric Crampton writes – Kainga Ora is the government’s house building agency. It’s been building a lot of social housing. Kainga Ora has its own (but independent) consenting authority, Consentium. It’s a neat idea. Rather than have to deal with building consents across each different territorial authority, Kainga Ora ...
Muriel Newman writes – The Coalition Government says it is moving with speed to deliver campaign promises and reverse the damage done by Labour. One of their key commitments is to “defend the principle that New Zealanders are equal before the law.” To achieve this, they have pledged they “will not advance ...
Chris Trotter writes – The absence of anything resembling a fightback from the public servants currently losing their jobs is interesting. State-sector workers’ collective fatalism in the face of Coalition cutbacks indicates a surprisingly broad acceptance of impermanence in the workplace. Fifty years ago, lay-offs in the thousands ...
Mariupol, on the Azov Sea coast, was one of the first cities to suffer almost complete destruction after the start of the Ukraine War started in late February 2022. We remember the scenes of absolute destruction of the houses and city structures. The deaths of innocent civilians – many of ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – Ten years ago, I wrote the following in a Listener column: Every year around one in five new-born babies will be reliant on their caregivers benefit by Christmas. This pattern has persisted from at least 1993. For Maori the number jumps to over one in three. ...
Climate change is expected to generate more and more extreme events, delivering a sort of structural shock to inflation that central banks will have to react to as if they were short-term cyclical issues. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s ...
It’s a simple deal. We pay taxes in order to finance the social services we want and need. The carnage now occurring across the public sector though, is breaking that contract. Over 3,000 jobs have been lost so far. Many are in crucial areas like Education where the impact of ...
Hi,A friend had their 40th over the weekend and decided to theme it after Curb Your Enthusiasm fashion icon Susie Greene. Captured in my tiny kitchen before I left the house, I ending up evoking a mix of old lesbian and Hillary Clinton — both unintentional.Me vs Hillary ClintonIf you’re ...
This is a re-post from Andrew Dessler at the Climate Brink blogIn 2023, the Earth reached temperature levels unprecedented in modern times. Given that, it’s reasonable to ask: What’s going on? There’s been lots of discussions by scientists about whether this is just the normal progression of global warming or if something ...
The schools are on holiday and the sun is shining in the seaside village and all day long I have been seeing bunches of bikes; Mums, Dads, teens and toddlers chattering, laughing, happy, having a bloody great time together. Cheers, AT, for the bits of lane you’ve added lately around the ...
Today in our National-led authoritarian nightmare: Shane Jones thinks Ministers should be above the law: New Zealand First MP Shane Jones is accusing the Waitangi Tribunal of over-stepping its mandate by subpoenaing a minister for its urgent hearing on the Oranga Tamariki claim. The tribunal is looking into the ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. ...
Citizen Science writes – Last week saw two significant developments in the debate over the treatment of trans-identifying children and young people – the release in Britain of the final report of Dr Hilary Cass’s review into gender healthcare, and here in New Zealand, the news that the ...
One night while sleeping in my bed I had a beautiful dreamThat all the people of the world got together on the same wavelengthAnd began helping one anotherNow in this dream, universal love was the theme of the dayPeace and understanding and it happened this wayAfter such an eventful day ...
This is a guest post by Oscar Simms who is a housing activist, volunteer for the Coalition for More Homes, and was the Labour Party candidate for Auckland Central at the last election. ...
Turning what Labour called the “holiday highway” into a four-lane expressway from Auckland to Whangarei could bring at least an economic benefit of nearly two billion a year for Northland each year. And it could help bring an end to poverty in one of New Zealand’s most deprived regions. The ...
Tonight’s six-stack includes: launching his substack with a bunch of his previous documentaries, including this 1992 interview with Dame Whina Cooper. and here crew give climate activists plenty to do, including this call to submit against the Fast Track Approvals bill. writes brilliantly here on his substack ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
You're in the mall when you hear it: some kind of popping sound in the distance, kids with fireworks, maybe. But then a moment of eerie stillness is followed by more of the fireworks sound and there’s also screaming and shrieking and now here come people running for their lives.Does ...
Karl du Fresne writes – There’s a crisis in the news media and the media are blaming it on everyone except themselves. Culpability is being deflected elsewhere – mainly to the hapless Minister of Communications, Melissa Lee, and the big social media platforms that are accused of hoovering ...
I don’t normally send out two newsletters in a day but I figured I’d say something about… the news. If two newsletters is a bit much then maybe just skip one, I don’t want to overload people. Alternatively if you’d be interested in sometimes receiving multiple, smaller updates from me, ...
Buzz from the Beehive David Seymour and Winston Peters today signalled that at least two ministers of the Crown might be in Wellington today. Seymour (as Associate Minister of Education) announced the removal of more red tape, this time to make it easier for new early learning services to be ...
Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. Our political system is suffering from the ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
The Government must commit to the Maitai School building project for students with high and complex needs, to ensure disabled students from the top of the South Island have somewhere to learn. ...
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey and his Government colleagues have made a meal of their mental health commitments, showing how flimsy their efforts to champion the issue truly are, says Labour Mental Health spokesperson Ingrid Leary. ...
Māori are yet to see anything from this Government except cuts, reversals and taking our people backwards, Māori Development spokesperson Willie Jackson said. ...
The Coalition Government’s refusal to commit to ongoing funding for social housing is seeing the sector pull back on developments and families watch their dreams of securing a home fade away, says Labour Housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner. The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom. “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel. “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says. "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board. “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti. “I have asked her to ...
The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States. “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
The Fast-track Bill, if passed, would allow three Ministers, unchallenged and unchecked, to approve the immediate extraction and exhaustion of one-off resources. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Duckett, Honorary Enterprise Professor, School of Population and Global Health, and Department of General Practice and Primary Care, The University of Melbourne iamharin/Shutterstock For many people, the term “bulk billed” refers to a GP visit they don’t have to pay ...
Emmas Hislop, Sidnam and Wehipeihana discuss what’s in a name. Emma Sidnam: Hello Emmas! Thank you so much for agreeing to do this with me. My first question for you is related to what’s been on my mind for a while. It’s very important. You see we’ve recently had some ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Sievers, Research Fellow, Global Wetlands Project, Australia Rivers Institute, Griffith University Chris Brown Humans love the coast. But we love it to death, so much so we’ve destroyed valuable coastal habitat – in the case of some types of habitat, ...
Josh Thomson on the 80s milk ad jingle he can’t stop singing, the beauty of The Simpsons, why Jersey Shore is as good as Shakespeare and more. For someone who spends a lot of time on our screens, popping up in everything from 7 Days to Taskmaster, Educators to Good ...
In apparent defiance of the Biden administration, the Netanyahu government has now initiated missile strikes against Iran. Last Saturday night (Sunday morning in New Zealand) Iran launched more than 300 drones, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles against Israeli military targets. With the assistance of US, UK and possibly French forces, ...
Māori representation brings a perspective that encompasses not only the interests of Māori communities but also a broader, holistic approach to environmental stewardship and community well-being, principles deeply embedded in Te Ao Māori (the Māori ...
This week in Auckland, a group of young people took over the microphone at a ministerial press conference, to explain why they oppose the Fast-Track Approvals Bill. One young woman said, ‘We’re here because we love Aotearoa New Zealand. We want to raise our children in an environment that’s thriving, ...
The summer was wonderful. Evie was wonderful, too; finally a teenager, finally worthy of long, hot days. She shaved her legs for the first time and bought cut-off shorts from the op-shop that made them look long. She got a Warehouse singlet so tight on her new shape that her ...
When Thomas James was on his solo camp as part of Outward Bound, the keen outdoorsman didn’t find it too challenging, as others often do. In what might just be the perfect illustration of his character, he saw it as a great opportunity to solve a few problems. “I thought, ...
From the unstable and drippy to the hi-tech and pretty, here’s our ranking of all the tunnels you can drive through in this country. The first tunnel seems to have been built in 2200BC in Babylonia, kicking off a global phenomenon for digging holes in order to get places more ...
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It's an interesting campaign strategy to whip up fear about a bunch of things that have turned to shit on your own watch. Because you've been actively turning them to shit.
https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1300543313443991552
It's also an interesting strategy to blame a right wing president on left aligned protests/riots in democrat led cities. But when you don't have a campaign.. you gotta campaign on something I spose.
Dunno how protesting about unarmed people getting murdered by police being grossly over-reactive to the situation is a left thing, but anyhoo. Dunno why you think encouraging armed thugs from out of town to go in to mix it up in protests that have nothing to do with them is a good thing, but it looks like since the tangelo turdgoblin encourages it you seem to feel the need to defend it. Hey, you do you.
As far as a campaign message goes, Biden is quite clear: violence, looting, property damage etc are not protest and are not OK.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-2020-trump-blake_n_5f4d1339c5b6cf66b2bb2827
You are quite correct about Biden; he has been very clear to condemn the violence. However Maui's point in his first sentence stands. In this piece (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/16/maybe-trump-shouldnt-save-democrat-run-cities-besieged-by-violence/) Marc Thiessen talks about the "spineless response of these local Democratic leaders to violent protests in their cities", and how "many of America’s cities are conducting social experiments in lawlessness, showing the rest of the country what happens when local leaders join calls to “defund the police” and cower in the face of violence." Legitimate protest against racism and just plain thuggish policing is one thing; property damage and outright violence conducted by the likes of antifa is another thing altogether.
If you're trying to make a serious point, you might want a better cite than a long-term Repug paid liar.
In this particular case, the quotes you've picked from Thiessen's piece merely make vague insinuations and fail to point to any specific cities, people, actions or incidents. Which makes it just a general smear job, not an actual argument in good faith amenable to reasoned rebuttal.
Clearly you don't like the messenger, but it seems you actually haven't read the message.
“the quotes you’ve picked from Thiessen's piece merely make vague insinuations and fail to point to any specific cities, people, actions or incidents.”
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/07/tear-gas-deployed-as-federal-officers-disperse-protesters-overnight-in-downtown-portland.html
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/07/15/trump_democrat_mayors_running_out_of_control_cities_that_are_like_war_zones.html
That's just the first paragraph. The article is replete with specific examples of "cities, people, actions or incidents".
Those aren't from Thiessen's piece.
The first piece from The Oregonian doesn't cover any failings of Portland's or Oregon's leadership, but is about the heavy-handed actions from uninvited federal agents. That makes it much better support for the argument that the Mango Mussolini is deliberately trying to incite violence.
As for your second link – you're trying to suggest Deranged Dotard making self-serving mouth noises bears any connection whatsoever to reality? Seriously? After more than four years of it being very well documented that any assertion he makes is much more likely to be a lie than truth?
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump
"Those aren't from Thiessen's piece."
Yes, they are! They are links taken directly from his article that reference "specific cities, people, actions or incidents”.
And Thiessen makes this point:
“In New York City, shootings during one week in June were up 358 percent over the previous year, while the number of police retirements has skyrocketed 411 percent — a vote of no confidence in the city’s left-wing leadership. In Atlanta, murders are up 86 percent. In Minneapolis, shootings are up 47 percent. In Philadelphia, shootings involving children are up 43 percent, and 96 percent of the victims are black. In Chicago, 106 people were shot during a single weekend in June, 14 of them fatally, while this past weekend, 64 people were shot, and 11 died. All these cities are run by Democrats.”
And then he links directly to leadership:
“Then there is the spineless response of these local Democratic leaders to violent protests in their cities. Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan called the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest, which took over several city blocks and a park, a “block party” and compared it to the “summer of love” — only to see multiple assaults and two murders take place in the police-free zone she permitted to exist for nearly a month. In Portland, Ore. — a hotbed of antifa violence — mayhem has raged for nearly two months as violent protesters have set more than 100 fires, looted business and done millions of dollars in property damage to local businesses. Rioters have attacked police with rocks, glass bottles, soup cans, frozen water bottles, bricks and fireworks, according to court documents filed by police. The mayor seems unable or unwilling to quell the violence.”
These are not ‘vague insinuations’. They are accusations of lax governance, supported by specific examples.
Were you born stupid or did you get someone to hit you on the head to make you that way?
Those links were not Thiessen's words that you quoted. Nor do they support the argument Thiessen is apparently trying to make.
It's not that I don't like Thiessen. It's that he has a very long history of lying in order to deceive people into supporting Repugs. And zero history of producing reasoned principled argument backed by reasonable interpretation of facts and evidence. It's a total waste of time and limited page views reading him, unless you feel a need to track what lies are currently being spewed. That he has cited an article showing the thuggery of federal agents acting outside of any reasonable interpretation of their jurisdiction sent in by by a lawless thuggish president, to try to gaslight that Democrats are somehow responsible for the violence, is just more evidence of Thiessen's attempted deceptivenesss.
Hold on. Originally you claimed “Those aren’t from Thiessen’s piece”, yet they were.
Now your claiming “Those links were not Thiessen's words that you quoted” but I never claimed they were ‘Thiessens words’. If you had read the article you would see that they are links taken directly from his article to support his opinion.
" Nor do they support the argument Thiessen is apparently trying to make. "
Yes, they do. They draw a credible link between the words and actions of Democrat leaders and violent demonstrations in their cities.
I stand by my response to you earlier. You didn’t bother to read the message because you don’t like the messenger.
Two murders in over a month sounds kind of low. They might be better off without police.
I very much doubt it. Although there seems to be some Democratic politicians who are prepared to try that as a social experiment,
You might be mistaken about what defunding means, or you might be deliberately misunderstanding.
BTW, if you're triggered by Thiessen, you might prefer Jonathan Turley (https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/500605-antifa-and-anarchists-have-hijacked-floyd-protests-but-left-wont-admit-it):
" Yet despite its violent history, some Democratic leaders have been enablers or outright supporters of the antifa movement…"
" Other Democratic leaders have been much more direct in their support, including the former deputy chair of the Democratic Party, Representative Keith Ellison. Although Germany has banned an antifa website, Ellison posed with the antifa handbook to show support at a Minneapolis bookshop and said it would “strike fear in the heart” of Trump. "
Fuck me, has it ever occurred to you to check the quality of sources you cite? You going to barf up John Solomon or Bill Barr next?
Turley is an absolute poster boy for situational ethics and shameless partisan hackery.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/republican-witness-jonathan-turley-contradicted-impeachment-testimony-2019-12?r=US&IR=T
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/turley-impeachment-hypocrisy/
But hey, I’m really not interested in wasting massive amounts of time rebutting shameless liars that only take a few seconds to post.
The shameless truth is that all this civil disorder is happening under a Republican President who for years has generated civil discord and distrust.
"Fuck me, has it ever occurred to you to check the quality of sources you cite? "
Well it's that kind of headscratching denial that led you to you claim “Those aren’t from Thiessen’s piece”, when they were, and then to deflect with "those links were not Thiessen's words that you quoted” when I never claimed they were.
BTW, about Jonathan Turley from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Turley:
[Content deleted because it contained too many links that triggered Auto-Moderation]
Of course you'd probably label him a " long-term Repug paid liar. " Sarc/
Mango Mussolini! Andre is that your own work? Brilliant.
Nah. Dunno where it originally came from, but it was marty mars' favourite for quite a while.
Marty mars. Where now?
Absolutely correct. Thank you Morepork.
I guess if property damage is totally unacceptable, maybe the cops and govt should have instigated some changes in their behaviour when Colin Kaepernick took a knee. But that didn't work, so here we are.
Violence and property damage is not ok. There are plenty of other ways to demonstrate against happened to Trayvon Martin.
They were tried, and failed.
Property damage (the violence mostly comes from the cops) seems to be having some effect.
Because the cops recklessly (at best) killing people is not ok, either. If a donut store has to be trashed before murderers in uniform are charged, I'm not going to get worked up over the vandalism.
The violence I'm referring to is coming from some within the protestors. The only effect that is having is to harm innocent individuals, and place the police and citizenry at even greater risk.
Yes, you're very careful to avoid referring to violence committed by police or right wing mobs with guns.
That hasn't been the subject of discussion. I'm happy to oblige if you wish.
It was a subject being discussed, and one that you carefully ignored. But there won't be anything informative or particularly believable about any belated platitudes you might make, so don't bother.
" It was a subject being discussed, "
Not in this thread. This convo started with https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1747334. The comment referred to " left aligned protests/riots in democrat led cities. " Not sure what you've been reading.
introduced at comment 1.1.1. Referred to by myself and others from there.
So very much a part of this thread.
Even you had to tangentially refer to "thuggish policing" before quickly changing the topic back to a tone argument.
You made no reference to violence by cops until https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1747560, and no refernce to right wing violence until https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1747577.
You came late to the conversation and didn't read back. Possibly why you’ve added nothing of value.
[Genuine debate assumes good faith and I’m starting to doubt you’re interested in this, as you don’t appear to comment in good faith. You can go back to comment 1.1.1, which is a direct reply to comment 1.1, which is where “[t]his convo started” according to you, and read it back for yourself and see for yourself that McFlock was correct. In addition, there is no hierarchy or ownership as such in and of discussion threads based on the timing at which a commenter joins in; what matters is that people engage on-topic and with respect, which you failed to do with your snide comment. If you continue your apparent disinterest in genuine debate based on good faith, you can read this site’s Policy about what might happen next. As a newcomer to this site, I strongly suggest you read the Policy before commenting again – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 12:31 PM.
" If a donut store has to be trashed before murderers in uniform are charged, I'm not going to get worked up over the vandalism. "
Unless and until it was your donut shop, I suspect. Violent protest that harms innocent people and/or their property is never ok. It is a shift towards anarchy, and solves nothing.
Organised labour throughout the world (especially coal miners in early 20C USA) suggest that you're full of crap.
Organised labour throughout the world has been full of thugs and corrupt practice. We only have to look over the Tasman. “According to evidence before the royal commission, the CFMEU has clear links to organised crime.”https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/the-corruption-of-organised-labour-20141009-11bxr8. Doesn’t make it right.
…and it doesn;t mean it works. Perhaps you've acknowledged that by digging out a 100+ years dispute that was not resolved by violent thuggery (although that was certainly a part of some organised labour activities).
So now organised crime is relevant to "violent protest" (as if the criminals didn't also get paid by the employers), but the police thuggery and murders that sparked the BLM protests aren't part of the thread. lol
Oh, and "especially" does not mean "restricted to".
Feel free to offer a relevant comment.
2. 'The police' are not organised crime.
3. Events in the coal industry 100 years ago are not relevant to what is happening today. And violent protest did not solve those problems.
Educate yourself.
1: I talked about organised labour, you talked about organised crime.
2: I didn't say they were. Some might, but I did not.
3: because you missed it the first time, I'll put it in italics. "Especially" does not mean "restricted to".
Have another go at saying something relevant to what I actually wrote.
[You have been on the Moderators’ radar and have already received a couple of warnings. You conflated “organised labour” and “organised crime” in your comment: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1748423 at 5:06 PM. You are contradicting and confusing yourself, at best, or gaslighting and being disingenuous, at worst. Lift your game – incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 9:36 PM.
1: link to you introducing oraganised crime into the thread not 5 hours ago.
2: Nope. That's your stupidity writing cheques that your reading comprehension can't cash.
3: Again, you opened the door to it with the suggestion that property damage is "never ok" and "achieves nothing". Organised labour throughout the world did not make achievements by being lickspittles.
Unless you can actually write a comment relevant to my previous responses, I suspect we're done here.
edit: took so bloody long to write a response to all the foolishness that Incognito made a similar point, I might go and do something productive instead.
This is my words.
"This is someone elses words, in this case a Royal Commission into organised LABOUR"
I'm sensing you're a waste of time.
You are literally incapable of even quoting yourself.
Does the concept of “cut and paste” hurt your tiny tory bigot mind? Or does mummy usually help you with the typing?
OH! Sorry, your stupid was momentarily inscrutable! Do you think that if you include a quote in your comment, you're not actually introducing the contents of that quote into the thread? That maybe it doesn't exist at all? Have you cast into existence some new principle of written communication?
" Do you think that if you include a quote in your comment, you're not actually introducing the contents of that quote into the thread? "
The contents of that quote were about organised labour. They were in direct response to your comment https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1748393. I made no comment about organised crime at all. My comment opened with the words ‘organised labour’, and was pointing you to a Royal Commission on organised LABOUR, that happened to show what a corrupt bunch they can be. You eityher have a very low IQ approach to conversation, or you’re just trolling for the sake of an argument. Either way, you’re a waste of time.
EDIT: “OH! Sorry, your stupid was momentarily inscrutable! ”
Low IQ it is.
[This is your words.
I’m sensing you’re wasting our time.
I’m sensing that you’re a disingenuous commenter who does not own their own words.
I’m sensing that you’re not going to lift your game.
I’m sensing that you’re banned until 1 November.
Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 5:57 PM.
The moderator disagrees with you.
And yes I am outraged at the killing of George Floyd.
Well, you see, I don't believe you. You always have a "But…" in there.
We don’t repay or resolve injustice by punishing innocents, but by holding the perpetrators accountable.
It sounds almost plausible – if you devoted any energy at all to going after those perpetrators – the murdering cops, in case you've forgotten.
Because from what you've had to say so far you just want the protests to stop. You're more concerned with that, than justice for Floyd or reform of the US police to prevent reoccurrences.
The rule of law and the value of human life go hand in hand,
Not if you're black in America they don't.
After all, property is sacrosanct while lives are expendable.
It's not either or. I value life far above property. I just don't agree with looting and violence to demonstrate against loss of life.
Taking a knee didn't fucking work.
Nor will looting and violence. It is feeding Trump and dividing America even more, if that is possible.
Seems to achieve more than taking a knee.
A proposal (see the correction at the foot of the article) to disband the city's police force is an achievement? How do you measure 'achievement'?
lol A proposal that was passed a few weeks later.
And the state legislature also made some significant changes to go to the governor.
So organisational change progressed by confrontational protests, not by politely taking a knee.
Are you seriously suggesting that a social experiment that hasn’t even been passed by voters has actually achieved anything? This is more likely to be an absolute disaster, but then neither of us know yet.
(Note – FYI the article concludes “Despite unanimous support Friday, the amendment faces a number of bureaucratic obstacles before voters can vote on it in November.” November. So it actually hasn’t ‘achieved’ a damn thing.)
Regardless of whether you think it will be a disaster, even placing the concept in front of the electorate is more progress on the issue than taking a knee ever got.
Because although many of the folks outraged by the current protests were also outraged by athletes daring to take a knee, in the end the athletes could be minimised and ignored. They tried it your way. They didn't even get the idea put before the city council, let alone the electorate.
"…even placing the concept in front of the electorate is more progress on the issue than taking a knee ever got."
It hasn't 'achieved' anything. The vote is yet to take place, and there is absolutely no guarantee an affirmative vote will lead to any positive change. At least 'taking a knee' has raised awareness.
lol
So "raising awareness" is more of an achievement than getting political action from a city council?
Oh, and the protests have "raised awareness", too.
" So "raising awareness" is more of an achievement than getting political action from a city council? "
Yes, it is. The policy action means nothing until it is affirmed by popular vote. Further, even if passed, the policy has achieved nothing until it actually produces favourable results. I would venture that the peaceful protests, which have had a positive impact across the planet, have achieved far more for the cause than opportunist nutcases rioting and looting.
Oh, you're back, and still full of shit.
"Raising awareness" is literally the least that can happen while still being a theoretical change from the status quo.
Working through the process of legislative change is still closer to achieving change than "raising awareness" even if it is eventually unsuccessful in this instance.
"Awareness" frequently changes nothing.
" Working through the process of legislative change is still closer to achieving change than "raising awareness" even if it is eventually unsuccessful in this instance. "
Rubbish. Raising awareness is here and now. Working through legislative change (in this case) leads to an as yet undermined vote by electors on what is at best a highly dubious policy.
You seem happy to sit back and wait for legislation that defies human nature. Raising awareness brings far more immediate public pressure to bear on an issue that needs addressing now.
lol so now removing a corrupt system developed to oppress people and replacing it with a less oppressive system of social support and public safety is "against human nature"?
"Raising awareness" means people know about something. Legislative change, especially via referendum, means people know about it and have the power to do something about it.
"lol so now removing a corrupt system developed to oppress people and replacing it with a less oppressive system of social support and public safety is "against human nature"?"
It's a lala land proposal.
""Raising awareness" means people know about something. Legislative change, especially via referendum, means people know about it and have the power to do something about it."
Meh. Youre referring to change that is basically at this point in time nothing more than a silly political idea. Come back when it's passed into law and been enacted and implemented for a few years. You know, when it’s actually had a chance to achieve anything.
So to recap, you regard "raising awareness" as some modicum of achievement.
But if actions raise a level of awareness that creates legislative action followed by a law-changing referendum and implementation of that law change, you'll want to wait a few years to see if it achieved anything.
Seems legit, lolsarc
" you regard "raising awareness" as some modicum of achievement. "
In the case of peaceful protest. most definitely. Athletes taking a knee have been viewed by tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of people across the planet.
In the UK alone, the viewer numbers for the resumption of the EPL (where players ‘took the knee’ and wore “Black Live Matter” on their jerseys) were staggering. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/06/english-premier-league-players-knee-season-resumes-200618093742276.html
"But if actions raise a level of awareness that creates legislative action followed by a law-changing referendum and implementation of that law change, you'll want to wait a few years to see if it achieved anything. "
There has been no law change, and there is no guarantee there will be. And even if there is, the result is a flaky social experiment that defies human nature.
How do you measure 'achievement'?
A policy that creates a sensible decrease in deaths like Breonna Taylor's, and the end of qualified privilege.
So not by a proposal that hadn't even been voted on?
Voting is neither here nor there in extremis – and when police are breaking into peoples homes and shooting them – extrajudicial killings in fact – a democracy relies on sensible decisions from incumbents to de-escalate the potential for violence. Legality comes later.
No chance of that from Trump of course – civil unrest is his main hope of re-election. But quite a few administrations across the US have successfully defused the issue.
" a democracy relies on sensible decisions from incumbents to de-escalate the potential for violence. "
Yes, I agree. However that shouldn't mean sacrificing the rule of law. We can be outraged by the killing of George Floyd and take meaningful action without condoning violence and looting.
that shouldn't mean sacrificing the rule of law
The rule of law is not more sacrosanct than the lives of innocent citizens routinely extrajudicially killed in the US – except of course to you and those like you.
We can be outraged by the killing of George Floyd and take meaningful action without condoning violence and looting.
It's funny, but you don't give the impression of being outraged at the killings at all.
It's pretty simple accounting actually: violence and looting bad, murder by police officers very much worse. It's not rational to make the resolution of the major issue conditional on the minor one. But of course, that's not your object.
The rule of law and the value of human life go hand in hand, in my view.
And yes I am outraged at the killing of George Floyd. But two wrongs don't make a right. We don’t repay or resolve injustice by punishing innocents, but by holding the perpetrators accountable.
Morepork You are virtue signalling aren't you? Making proud statements about your high beliefs is insulting to the rest of us I think. As if we don't understand standards and good civil behaviour. However the talk is about cruel regimes and protest against them, which is something you appear to have trouble understanding is reality.
My 'high beliefs'? I see many commentators here who have beliefs I share. The objections I have expressed are quite specific. They related to Maui's comment here https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1747334, which are events in the here and now. I havn't commented at all about protests against cruel regimes. My comments have related to events in the US.
On the topic of murderous thugs acting in "self-defense" …
https://www.salon.com/2020/09/01/trump-and-his-allies-are-redefining-right-wing-violence-as-self-defense–thats-dangerous/
To be consistent with your approach, I should immediately discount your source as being from a news source with a far left bias. But I'll resist.
The difference is Amanda Marcotte doesn't have a long long history of shameless partisan lying, covers actual facts and evidence, and her links go to sources that are actually relevant and support her argument.
"… doesn't have a long long history of shameless partisan lying, "
There you go again. Jonathan Turley doesn't either. But you didn’t name him in response to my link, you just criticised the news source he was writing in. Shallow as.
You also haven’t posted any evidence that Marc Theissen does, either. I realise you don’t like the guy, but hell that doesn't make him wrong.
You're a fan of a partisan hack and and an evil POS?
Shallow.
Jonathan Turley, a law professor who appeared as a Republican witness in Wednesday’s impeachment hearings, made a number of claims that directly contradicted his previous statements and testimony.
On Wednesday, Turley argued there was no proof that President Donald Trump broke a specific law related to the Ukraine scandal and therefore should not be impeached.
But in 1998, Turley made the opposite case, telling Congress during former President Bill Clinton’s impeachment hearings that Clinton’s actions didn’t need to violate any laws in order to be impeachable conduct.
“While there’s a high bar for what constitutes grounds for impeachment, an offence does not have to be indictable,” he wrote in a 2014 op-ed for The Washington Post.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/republican-witness-jonathan-turley-contradicted-impeachment-testimony-2019-12?r=US&IR=T
In “Courting Disaster: How the C.I.A. Kept America Safe and How Barack Obama Is Inviting the Next Attack,” Mr. Thiessen, a practicing Roman Catholic, says that waterboarding suspected terrorists was not only useful and desirable, but permitted by the teachings of the Catholic Church.
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/27/us/27beliefs.html
So you don’t like the guy's opinion on waterboarding, but you have no evidence that he has "a long long history of shameless partisan lying". That's good.
Meanwhile, Thurley is far from partisan. He "called for criminal prosecution of Bush administration officials for war crimes, including torture", and " He has written extensively in opposition to the death penalty, noting, "Human error remains a principal cause of botched executions… eventually society will be forced to deal directly with a fundamental moral question: Has death itself become the intolerable element of the death penalty?" and " Turley also has testified in Congress against President Bush's warrantless domestic surveillance program and was lead counsel in a case challenging it." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Turley
Joe 90 This Morepork seems to be using the right wing ploys and rationalisations just as Greg Larsen demonstrated that you put up earlier!
A right wing president who refuses to condemn the police execution of unarmed and innocent black men, and holds police officers up in high regard to the point that they are allowed to do anything they like and they will not be sanctioned or punished.
All these from 1, about 50 comments, and all connected to the USA. It's a big world out there. What about putting another country under the microscope, India for instance that seems under Modi to be going for a Muslim clear-out and possibly Christian too. What do Indians who come to this country think about other religions?
Murica is a distraction for us and right here we have got distracted with attacks on commenters here, and lots of acrimony. What's the point of enabling this farcical discussion purporting to be intelligent? Why can't commenters just leave drops of dirty water to dry up in the sunlight and disappear?
Well said.
Odious Polly watch: Tony the Abbott's at it again on the Oz taxpayer.
Suggesting we leave the old to it and the virus run free. Perfect candidate for Boris to endorse for the trough. It’s in the guardian, I’d link but not on this device, apologies.
Yes Tony has had a major "kill granny to save the economy" moment. I think he is a very devout conservative catholic – funny the ideas that can co exist. Other than that I'm sure a large chunk of Australia will be delighted to palm him off on Boris.
good point redbaron. would like to see him reconcile his right-to-life catholism with letting granny die.
Oh Come on-
It's only the poor little unborn zygotes that are sacred human life. Once you are actually born, your rights diminish to the point that adults can be cannon fodder in wartime, etc.
Interesting thoughts about where we are at present. Much of this resonates. It's why I'd rather see power sharing with Maori (60 seats each in parliament), work and leisure shared more evenly – 30 or less working hour week with work spread amongst more of the population, copyright periods reduced so more things entered the commons earlier. More leisure, more equality – time for people to pursue and experience more than economic growth.
https://eand.co/the-story-eea04d97062b
"How did we get here? Every age has a paradigm of human organization. A set of defining principles and beliefs about what life is for. In the past, you can think of things like tribalism, feudalism, mercantilism, and so on. What’s our paradigm? Why isn’t it working?
Every paradigm’s end, purpose, defines it. We organize — whether countries, companies, societies, days, projects, investments — for just one sole end: maximizing income. Whether it’s called GDP, profits, shareholder value, all are more or less different words for the same imperative: the most income over the smallest increment of time an organization can produce. This overarching social goal of maximizing income trickles down into maximizing incomes for corporations and firms and banks and households so on.
Today’s paradigm of human organization — which is a relic of the industrial age — is economic. Our lives — in fact, all life on the planet, in fact, all life in the universe, because life on this planet is the only life that we know of anywhere in existence — are thus oriented around the pursuit of a single end: maximizing short-term income. Maximizing immediate financial income is the sole purpose of all the life that we know of, which all the life that there is."
What’s our paradigm? Why isn’t it working?
Resilience & sustainability. Because Labour & National still refuse to shift to it.
copyright periods reduced so more things entered the commons earlier
Damn right. Sharing & caring prioritised over private profit for long enough to retilt the balance societally.
More leisure, more equality
We were promised that throughout the 1960s, in endless media stories, social analysis, futurism, until a total consensus of expectation prevailed.
Then we were betrayed by Labour & National. In retrospect, it seems evident that both wings of the establishment were treating the people as suckers. It was a con.
Yeah it is like promising increased productivity leads to better wages – hope it doesn't.
Increased productivity means less people to do the job.You lay off those people unless you can increase sales/market share.
Your productivity means you can reduce your competition through selling at a lower cost. They lose their jobs. Less people to do the job means there is a pool of people unemployed who can do the job. A pool of unemployed who can do the job means you can replace errant workers as a workforce is available.
Productivity improvements can only result in less pay. Freezing works is a classic example.
"Productivity improvements can only result in less pay."
…or less hours devoted to production, how the benefits of increased productivity are distributed is the key.
Keynes posited that by now the working week would be 15 hours
QFT
Higher productivity gives us choices that we didn't have before. We could all work less and have more leisure, we could have better education or we could have more R&D. There are, of course, even more choices.
Those choices were taken away from us so that the rich could get richer.
in simple terms yes…we have gifted the benefits of increased productivity to the wealthy so they can disproportionately use the real resources…but the choice has been with us since the advent of (modern) democracy, that we fail to grasp it is on us, though Im happy to concede that the vested interests devote their energies to making sure we dont believe we can…and im still not convinced we will manage it any better if we did realise our power.
Modern Representative Democracy was designed to prevent democracy. The new rich at the end of the English Revolution didn't want democracy and the same was true after the American Revolution (Pols 202). What we got was a compromise that left the power in the hands of a few that were controlled by the rich.
As I say, an actual democracy is, by default, communist as its controlled by the people.
There are many impediments to enacting the desires of the majority but in a country such as NZ (possibly due to its size and global (in)significance) there are no real barriers to electing a policy platform that is opposed to the capitalist narrative…we have indeed done so before.
When the 4th Labour Gov (and Treasury) duped the NZ electorate how did we react?…did we elect New Labour or the Alliance when the opportunity arose?….no, we elected Douglas in female form.
Its on us.
You mite have, It's one of the reason I no longer vote Labour
lol…i did not post 1988 but then I am but one vote….and I am a supporter of democracy
The 4th National government got voted in because
The problem now is that, even if we do show that we want something different, the government goes on with the 1980s reforms.
We actually need a majority Green government but most people are still wedded to either National or Labour. That will start changing soon as the Baby Boomers die off.
Disagree… we do not show we desire different by the simple fact we continue to vote for them…there have been alternatives not taken for the past 4 decades
And many of those alternative were voted for at the time but FPP prevented them from being in government. People who voted for them learned their lesson – don't vote for the under-dog. Even now with MMP people still hold onto that lesson.
MMP is also a problem. I will be voting for the Labour candidate in my electorate. I don't want to but having him in is better than having the National candidate.
And that logic has applied across the last four decades and more as FPP forces a vote for the lesser evil.
Which, again, is why everyone who wants a better democracy should be voting Green this election as they're looking to change the voting system to preferential.
EDIT:
And don’t forget that we’ve been educated to believe that we need rich people.
"….though Im happy to concede that the vested interests devote their energies to making sure we dont believe we can"
Again…its on us….we get the government we deserve
Its on us.
Nope. The scoundrels who created our veiled oligarchy don't wiggle free quite so easily.
keep telling yourself that….the fact remains the majority of voters have supported the status quo….given whats in front of us that may (MAY) change…Im not going to hold my breath
Thanks Pat and Draco best sequence of comments in a long time. It needs to be repeated, because so many seem ignorant of it now. (Especially guys like Morepork, who somehow reminds me of someone I have read before on this site..)
I started secondary teaching in 1970. Alvin Toffler's Future Shock became the rage. We were told that in the future everyone would work shorter hours, and students needed to be educated to cope with much more leisure time. One period a week was devoted to 'Clubs' in the early-mid 80s. I remember taking groups for things like Chess, Cross-country, and the new sport of BMX about which I knew nothing.
How naive we were! If only I could have had the prescience (and cynicism) to have said at the time:
"No! This is all wrong! What we will in fact have is low wages, unemployment so that the poor are forced to accept shit wages; those who take such work will have less leisure time, not more, because they will have to take at least two jobs because of low pay, or even 3 because the 40-hour week would be gone, and 'flexibility' of hours would be their bane; and a large pool of unofficially unemployed underclass would emerge, not well enough off to indulge in the nice activities we were teaching them.
With hindsight, it was a farce. But it has taught me one thing: Never believe people who say we have to predict the future and teach students to be ready for it. That is Bullshit.
All we can prepare kids for is the likely prospect that the Rich will have tilted the playing field, and unless you are the children of the Rich, you will be in a society where social mobility will be ever-diminishing, so bad luck, dear students.
If there is one positive thing the internet could do its providing the information for the masses to decode the BS….sadly its also available to the vested interests and f**k, dont they make use of it.
The academics, who should have been the backstop were undermined years ago
Yep. By the way, have you seen the latest reality show?
Edit – By the way, it was accepted by most forward-looking teachers back then that the best gift we could give our students was to teach them to have good Bullshit-Detectors.
We tried…
'Again…its on us….we get the government we deserve'
The discussion above has just shown us that we don't understand what we are voting for, we haven't been given the educational background to enable us to analyse, use our imagination. How can we then get the government 'we deserve'.
We don't understand how to form one, and how to plan for provision of citizen needs Our parents had no future planning ideas or philosophies to pass on, the schools didn't, the universities might have tried in say their Development studies. None of us have been fitted to know what to learn and then what to aim for, and the government we have is the default one from Roger Douglas's crony capitalism cult members.
Our leaders had 50 years after the end of WW2 to make a better world, and get us ready to think our way to a better democracy and face up to the early recognised environmental problems. But we didn't make it top priority.
I did some Social Policy and started on the thinking path. But by that time the government was turning away from representing people who wanted to be socially mobile and instead went hob-knobbing with the wealthy, skilled at the seagull tactics of whipping away our lives while they were in our hands on their way to providing for our future. All gone, nearly.
So don't be too judgmental, not for long, and praise those still trying, in a practical way. The idealists determined to realise their dreams of the 1970s by repeating the slogans of that time are wasting our time. Sit in your rocking chairs and offer some wisdom from time to time, the hewers of civilisation have to go further and wider to make any way safe for those wishing to be warm humans flourishing together with room for argument and disagreement, finally settled without insisting on the dictatorship of consensus. A future satisfactory, lived simply using all our skills, together. And it may be separate from the tech cities – the town and country thing in a different paradigm.
@ Greywarshark
It is evident too many of us dont understand what we vote for…..thats what political parties are supposed to make clear.
We can blame 'education' or the lack of if you wish but the purpose of education I have always believed is to instruct us how to learn for ourselves….and even so it dosnt require formal education to develop ethics.
It is after all relatively simple….how can so few have far more than they could ever possibly use when so many have nothing?
Unlikely….reality (?) shows are not to my taste
"If that Government had been in charge now [during Covid-19], we’d have collateral damage of 3000 or 4000 elderly folk dead."
Mike Coleman, a red-zoned Anglican priest and school counsellor.
"As a New Zealander I’d backpacked around the world. You see some really corrupt governments, and I don’t think our government was corrupt in any sense, but you come home and go, “I’m in New Zealand. If something happens, they’re going to back me.” And lots of times, governments do.
But in this case, they got it seriously wrong."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/122558553/munted-there-was-no-dialogue-no-transparency
This is about post-earthquake and what National chose not to do for the people that would have been fair and appropriate, and how if National had been in power at the start of the Covid-19 outbreak, and behaved in the same dilatory, apathetic, unethical way, the deaths would have been in the thousands.
Thank God we have this government in at this time, and can people who don't want National's dilatory, apathetic, unethical pattern of government, please rise up and give a tick to the Party who will be there for us, working out how to manage the increasing negative events that are forecast to impact on us.
Have any of the 'media,' published the latest Roy Morgan?
I know the question was rhetorical, but nope.
why bother?the polling was taken two weeks ago, and considering the brouhaha since, the only poll relevant is the next one coming out. That will be the fun one.
.
While Greenies can be relatively satisfied with their Party's 3.5 point increase to 11.5% in the latest Roy Morgan … best they don't become too euphoric or take the figure literally.
Roy Morgan tend to overstate Green support….
For example, the Greens rated 10.5% in the RM in both Jan & Feb 2020 … and 11.5% in March.
Around the same time, they were on 5.0% in the Colmar Brunton & 5.6% in Reid Research (with their ratings in Party Internals – Curia & UMR – taking an intermediate position at 7.0% & 9.0% respectively).
(That’s putting aside, of course, any fallout from the latest micro-scandal involving affluent New Age Hippies, Private Schools, Crystals, aromatherapy, hands-on-healing & the channeling of some sort of mysterious universal energies known only to the terminally self-indulgent)
indeed…and the detail worsens.
Fingers crossed.
If the "New Age hippies" are indeed able to channel universal energies, support for The Greens will rise in the polls.
I can feel an Enya song coming on.
Which one exactly. Can we have the facts please.
It doesn’t matter, as they all put me to sleep.
That's okay though, as long as you can wake refreshed and ready to come phoenix-like back into the fray. We need you to stay the distance! Kia kaha.
Perhaps she'll pen one especially for James. It could play at every Green hui.
Perhaps poor James could just play a recording of Woof Woof the Tui vocalising, RIP Woof-Woof. Nothing James does or says manages to please – he could invite people to choose one of Woof-woofs offerings to save him from opening his mouth and putting his foot in it. Perhaps while they are looking towards the sounds, James could sneak away and manage to get something done, going in a forward direction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqF33vc_q68
Uhhh, yeah. Always a good thing to respond to reports of your spare wheel being told to be ready to step in by asserting that reports of mini-strokes are FAKE NEWS. Leaving everyone to ask: what's this about mini-strokes?
https://www.salon.com/2020/09/01/trump-calls-fake-news-on-reports-of-his-mini-strokes-journalists-say-what-reports/
Reckon this is one of Trump's dead cats. He can win it by getting the story circulating, and since it isn't actually true, he can actually debunk it. Scores points with his base, erodes confidence in MSM.
That all seems a bit too subtle and complex for Hair Twitler's non-thought processes. Possibly more of a failed attempt to plant an association of strokes with Biden.
'Particularly annoyed' Collins vows to find out who created 'misleading' National ad with her name on it
Judith can't control her own party members.
Regularly polling below 30%.
Is there nobody left in the National cares who cares about the result? Have all the CVs gone out already? There's a story for Felicity Ferret.
One of the questions I'd be asking of the 'strong team' is why any responsible for this lying, false and smearing (herself and others) misinformation should actually think that they should be doing it on behalf of the National Party.
Not just the name of Judith Collins associated with it.
The rank false letterhead.
The misquoting.
The lying by deception.
The lying by omission.
"Who are you that you think such lies and deception should be part of a political campaign?"
But she won't.
The same question to be asked of her husband since he chose also to enter the political arena with the same style of puerile and belittling characterisations.
National does not deserve the 28% that Roy Morgan awards it!
Those 'emotional junior staffers' are at it again.
Quoting article:
No, it's far, far worse as its actively lying.
Ooooh … below the belt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjydniIywzc
It's blisteringly obvious Melania can't stand him. She finds him understandably repellent, so I hope the money keeps her warm at night. I feel sorry for Barron. He's likely going to grow up to be a dysfunctional young man, which is a tragedy.
I know that some will disagree but the current hysterical attack on the green party is starting to smell of dirty politics. Of course the journos are always looking for the latest gotcha and are willing dupes of anyone willing to provide it but it feels like more than that to me.
The whole new age thing seems deliberately calculated to rile the christian fundies even though they are not going to be GP supporters anyway, but it does remind me of the exclusive brethren thing.
agree mango. I expect more attempted hit jobs on greens and nzfirst. if you cant dent jacinda's popularity, the next targets are the gov support parties. theres one journo(?) in particular that seems to specialise in hit jobs on nzfirst. must be time for him to crawl out from whatever rock he dwells under.
Families divided by belief systems – what else is new? 🙄
Well, no. People believe what they want. Trying to persuade others to believe what you believe never works. The best you can hope to achieve is raising awareness of alternative views. Facts sometimes work too – but that depends on palatability.
I suspect his experience is a happening thing up & down the country nowadays.
Inasmuch as the control system has always worked via deceit, discovery of that (via reading history or websites) can induce an internal binary trigger, flipping people from sheeple status into the supposed cognoscenti. Those with critical faculties may not succumb to an alternative belief system (natural sceptics tend not to become victims) but many happily replace the trad narrative with a seductive alternative, uncritically.
If the establishment were to stop lying to everyone, the potential for mass sociopathy would not be so dangerous. The mental health of the public remains vulnerable to delusions via contagion as long as the political left & right refuse to behave themselves.
edit
Those with university degrees now and particularly in science, feel that everything they know is invulnerable to any other point of view. They cite evidence-based as their mantra, which relates back to Age of Enlightment views setting reason and evidence against church edicts and dogma beliefs.
But now the belief is in the correctness of anything that gets presented from some learning institution, in words and figures with some provenance; the thought that so-called evidence based stuff has to be checked for bias is broadly by-passed. And stuff that the older person knows from lifelong learning and observing is of no more significance than anything that has been picked out the broad mass of memes always circling. In fact if it isn't touted as a new idea by media, it is old hat, and not the Sorting Hat either.
So, Mrs Wong-Tung 'didn't even know about' the fake ad she authorised. How then can she claim to be across her role? And how can she criticise others for not being across theirs?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/425018/collins-didn-t-even-know-about-misleading-national-ad
Mrs Wong-Tung is calling for James Shaw to resign over the Green School funding decision. This is the dead cat strategy we knew she would use to distract from her own failings as a leader and a wife.
collins doesnt seem to know whether to come across as crusher or cushla. maybe having a doorstop for a deputy hasnt helped. for a party that pushes the team word, she seems to be doing all of the heavy lifting. anybody seen any of her team?
I think they are all busy scurrying around looking and digging for dirt plus writing false ads that she then has to deny or ringing up talkback radio shows……they're really busy people.
Or rewriting their CVs.
Polishing is the word you’re looking for.
The 'strong team' might be trying to dissociate itself from the strong stench coming from the top table.
The strong team is so strong that it can write lying messages using the imprimatur of their leader seemingly without fear of the strong leader's disapproval.
Funny also that there's been no mention of the serious money wasted on Nationals charter school b.s.
Gerry mandering Brownlee saying the Sam Morgan covid card should have already been in use.
The cost of $400 million supposedly not a problem even if it doesn't work ,no trial required with windbag Brownlee.
That's about $100/card for everyone over 12 in NZ. No wonder Sam is pissed off, that is a tidy pandemic profit he has missed out on.
nah, he just pissed that he put forward a proposal that ain't shovel ready. Nothing nicer for rich listers who don't pay taxes is to get their hands on some tax money. He should go into education, i hear its more profitable.
No, it isn’t.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/122593372/qualified-early-childhood-teachers-could-earn-more-working-in-a-supermarket-says-centre-boss
Profit accumulates to the owners – not the workers.
"Six weeks ago they delivered a report to officials after field trials, but are yet to be given any indication of a decision. The project would cost $100 million and take about five months to roll out, which is why Morgan says a decision needs to be made quickly."
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018755348/sam-morgan-s-covidcard-hits-a-snag
Windbag, weathervane, weather-vain – Queen with Bohemian Rhapsody sing 'Anyway the wind blows doesn't really matter to me, to me…'
We wonder: Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality
Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see..
I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy
Because I'm easy come, easy go, little high, little low
Any way the wind blows doesn't really matter to me, to me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9rUzIMcZQ
Nice – Eric Clapton JJ Cale – Anyway the wind blows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-Fpq5NYCNQ
About that idea of covid testing people before being allowed to board flights to NZ: there's been plenty of reasoned explanation why that's pointless, but here's the proof:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122636917/five-new-christchurch-covid-cases-tested-negative-when-they-boarded-plane-to-nz
the point of testing before flying isn't to catch false negatives, it's to catch asymptomatic, presymptomatic, and low symptomatic positives and stop them getting on a plane with the virus with other people who don't have it. It's about lowering risk of transmission on planes*.
There are compelling reasons not to test pre-flight, but they're around fairness for returning NZers, not ideas about perfection in testing.
*I never saw the science on whether that would work mind.
Trump would have openly defended the practice of lynching is he was around during that era.
It's going to be a bloodbath if he gets another term. I promise you that there will be progroms like you have never seen before during that time.
but her fucking emails, now watch this drive.
As Donald Trump's father, Fred Trump, seems to have been intimately involved with the KKK as a young man, and from the description of Fred Trump in the recently released book by his grand niece Mary Trump, it would not be out of the way to suggest that Donald – who has closely followed in his father's footsteps – would condemn lynching.
In terms of Mein Drumpf more directly, his ongoing actions and statements around the Central Park Five suggest quite strongly he would support lynching if that were still a thing.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/18/18684217/trump-central-park-5-netflix
Contrast this compensation payment for a workplace related incident with the compensation payment for tenants who had their front door stolen and positions damaged but their landlord. $20K vs 6K.
Employment law strong. Tenancy law very, very weak.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122627382/vape-shop-worker-unpaid-and-humiliated-by-friend-awarded-50k-in-compensation
Having been through the Tenancy Tribunal recently, which resulted in a termination order for the tenants, the process was very balanced.
The tribunal hearing made a judgement ONLY on the failure to pay rent.
The fact that although the police told us to write down and record his abusive behaviour, and we had 20 pages of incidents and sound recordings as well as texts that took hours to collate, were not heard at the Tribunal. The mediator told us – do you want him out or not? When I replied yes, but surely it would be better for others if there is a record of his abusive behaviour? The mediator said – well, I have to give a termination order for unpaid rent, so I will. If I give a termination order for abusive behaviour – it will likely be overturned, so I suggest you just take the unpaid rent option and it's over.
I am an advocate for fair treatment of people. Whether tenants or landlords. The experience of going through the Tribunal process – at the instigation of the tenant who didn't bother to turn up, makes me believe that the process is not as efficient or effective as it could be. It doesn't make me think that the process is slanted towards the landlords, if anything, it errs on the side of the tenant.
The issue over compensation of two separate cases in two different areas of law, is a red herring.
My experience with the TT as a renter a long time ago was very good. I took the complaint because the landlord wouldn't return my bond. I got paid out because the landlord was unreasonable, treated the process without respect, and ignored the ruling the first time.
I will say however that I prepared and presented really well, had good support, and have my middle class background that helps me read the room pretty well in situations like that. I can imagine the same set of circumstances going against a tenant up against a landlord who presented well and where the tenant didn’t.
The process should work in such a way that whoever is at fault is found to be at fault, and asked to remediate or be fined accordingly. Whether they are landlord or tenant. The power imbalance regarding this relationship needs to be considered and I believe there are changes that could make this process much better. The use of a mediator before the hearing is set may be the answer, but we did not experience this for ourselves.
(In our case, after awaiting mediator hearing by phone, the time and date for this session was interrupted by the police attending once again, as the tenant ran down the road in his underpants after taking his partner's phone as she didn't want to participate.)
After ten days of the mediator trying to get back in touch with the tenant, we asked that it be moved on to the hearing, as the mediation process was going nowhere. But that may be the best avenue to addressing the power imbalance if done correctly.
But the idea that all landlords are treating tenants badly, is not going to assist in resolving issues.
I agree. Mediation wasn't available when I went through that but it sounds like it would useful for many.
it sounds like your situation was quite specific. I'm guessing most problems are things like bond not being returned, or tenant damaging property/not paying rent.
Surely at the point where he removed the front door there would be a criminal offence of some thing like breaking and entering and dusting for finger prints on their stuff would confirm entry. Tenants are entitled to quiet enjoyment of the property whilst renting. His actions to me go beyond any civil offence – pretty similar to putting camera's on tenants.
I haven't seen the article that Muttonbird refers to. He hasn't linked. But comparing the two issues, seems disingenious.
In response to the camera issue, the police (who were almost always called by the tenant himself to sort out an argument between him and his partner), kept asking us to video record the tenant, which we refused to do.
The police were ineffective with making us feel safe in our home, in a different landlord situation, the neighbours would have been in the same position, and they would have had to present at the hearing with the understanding that they may have to return home to live next door to the person they testified against.
I don't think Muttonbird's comparison of two separate court rulings gives a reasonable perspective into tenancy rights.
Ah I wasn't clear I was referring to the landlords who faced criminal charges after setting up cameras to record tenants in the rental – like in the shower – the perverted stuff.
Here's a stuff piece – is this the one being discussed?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/122623348/landlord-ordered-to-pay-tenants-6500-after-prison-threats-removing-front-door
I don't know about that case, but given what you said, I agree that they should face criminal charges, whether landlord, flatmate or otherwise.
The one grey links to below, shows the law working as it should. The landlord did not follow any of the responsibilities of a landlord and this was noted and he was fined accordingly.
As an aside, that doesn't mean that the law at present is effective. The inability of the police to aid the tenants in this case, show that work needs to be done. (As neighbours, the police were equally ineffective and unable to assist, although they asked more than once for us to videotape the neighbours/tenants to help them with prosecution.)
Strangely enough, one of the police issues was that our tenants had wilfully signed the tenancy agreement stating that neither of them was a minor. The male partner started ringing the police to evict his female partner from the flat saying that she was not a valid tenant.
After several instances of this happening, I called the Tenancy Services who had to get back to me after checking with their legal team. Their advice: despite knowingly signing the agreement knowing the information to be false, the female tenant had all the rights of a tenant, BUT none of the liability. Once I informed the police of this, they stopped trying to get her to leave the property on the whim of her partner.
It was only recently that I wondered: what if they both were under the age of 18 and knowingly signed the agreement stating they were not? What does that mean for any damages or rent arrears arising from a tenancy such as that?
As for the original comment, it is just that I don't think that comparison between an employment issue, and a tenancy issue is useful in a conversation about tenancy rights and responsible renting practice.
New rule. You don't have to now.
It wasn't an argument against what you were saying. It was just a statement of fact, – I didn't know the case you were referring to.
I still think comparing employment tribunal compensation against tenancy compensation is irrelevant, and misleading.
Point out the tenancy laws that you believe are weak, and you will be sticking to the issue at hand.
The new rule is the same as the old rule: please provide a link if you want to improve the quality and flow of commentary here, especially when asked by other commenters. The bold font tends to be reserved for recidivist offenders and smart alecs.
HOME SWEET HOME: Cheap affordable housing finally….. This could have such a major impact on poverty etc
Problems:
Potential Solution:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018762052/could-boxes-from-china-solve-our-housing-problems
Issue:
They are not made in NZ (materials etc overcharged in NZ), but hey it is a start.
However, this is something to celebrate
Good on ya Tony Houston, your a legend
We have a hole lot of kit set houses, tiny houses etc all 'made in NZ' and non of them is the issue.
The high cost of housing in NZ is due to the high cost of land. And China can provide a box for 0.50NZD per pop if the patch of dirt you want to put the box on is 450.000$ plus you still don't have an affordable property.
Repeat, the house has no value, its the land that carries the value.
Sabine, very good point about land cost
Imagine, if land suddenly became available and affordable via the “magic wand” called zoning that local councils have. Allowing multiple small houses closely packed together.
https://www.propertyguides.com/new-zealand/news/how-can-you-find-land-to-build-on-in-new-zealand/
The cost of a plot can vary wildly depending on its location, as does the cost of actually having the property built. This starts from around $1,700 per square metre. $2,000-2,500 is more common, and $3,000 is what you should expect if you’re having something custom built.
are there any jobs near the affordable plots of land? Next quetsion.
That too is a big part in the artificially created unaffordability housing saga of these fair lands.
We have whole towns with empty houses, empty town centres and no one wants to move there as the only way of living there would be on Winz. And so as long as that is not even considered – and now the shovel ready jobs in construction are not really an incentive to move anywhere as these jobs are only temporary. Once the construction is over the jobs are gone. Mind one local may get to be a jantior or a school cook or a cleaner but even that is not good enough to get people to move there.
So only looking at a cheap kitset house is faulty, as is looking only at the price of land.
Repeat, houses can be cheap, but land in places with job opportunities is very expensive. Houses in areas with no jobs tend to be very very cheap, and yet they would still be too expensive while trying to make it on the benefit.
So please don't pull up a paid advertisment for some realtors that would like to flock of some land in no–job country.
the other part of this equation is that many of those cheap sections in empty towns come with a huge rates bill that would shock aucklanders who think their rates are high. someone needs to fund these provincial councils and it sure as hell isnt the surrounding farmers, who while watching their land values skyrocket, have mostly managed to keep their rates bill artificially low.
No easy answer on housing. Central government could help by enabling small pockets of tiny houses that would be looked after well, gardens, covered outdoor areas, some rented some bought from Trusts as a form of saving, to be repaid from Trust when sold back. On transport, near shopping centre, schools. Carrying forward Schumacher's 'Small is Beautiful'. Local Councils funded to start similar.
Get started, give people a place to be, help them with security of tenure, and able to join a group that helps others in similar housing communities – helping each other with shifting stuff, repairing stuff, and can call for assistance for themselves. Time bank stuff. Learn skills, resilience and support community with conviviality – nice word. Individuality within stable, good community – way to go.
Hi there all of ya,
Totally get were you are coming from. greywarshark, like your approach
can't wait to see if the ALCP vote shifts to the Greens this year.
Usually @ 1%, but every little bit helps. Goes to show the supposed liberality of the Nats is merely skin deep. Even NZF way more liberal!
The problem for the Nats is that outbreak of liberally painting on slow-setting glue to their chairs. The poor dears are getting gradually more isolated and feeble as they expend their energy endeavouring to rise from their seats just to go to the toilet. The thought of changing anything to make the world a better place for other people, must be considered carefully because it would create a precedent for them, having done it once they will be expected to do it again. Exhausting, the responsibility on one! /sarc – for the feeble minded.
any act voter in favour of continueing prohibition shows their complete hypocrisy. thought they were the party of small gov, personal freedom etc? expect nat voters to want the status quo, thats a conservative view, but thought act voters were cut from different cloth(yeah right)
Which is probably reflecting that the new ACT voters are all ex-National.
sorry dear beneficiaries but the government got a surplus to look at and besides you got a double heat payment and a 25NZD increase.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300097143/winter-energy-payment-to-end-their-income-is-going-to-fall-off-a-cliff
As was the 25NZD increase in the base benefit. Without covid non of these payments would have happened in the first place. Maybe that is something to think about?
never mind the Minister has no issues with the poverty levels as they are, after all what would Carmel Sepuloni and hte Labour Party run on if not 'kinder gentler war on the poor'.
It's interesting to know that some people appear to have found the end of the rainbow with the fabled pot of gold buried there.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018762083/nz-s-wealthiest-worth-68-times-more-than-the-average-nzer
Froth I do at this.
We're learning more about how the govt does regional development, thanks to Richard Harman.
Who's guilty, then?
So even though the regional heads in Taranaki were dead keen, the Labour/NZF ministers were dead against. So much for the credibility of coalition regional development policy. Ain't worth shit.
Great post explaining what really happened re the green School Dennis-thanks.
So much b/s in the media.
More on the green school from Radionz.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/first-up/audio/2018762185/taranaki-s-green-school-considers-changing-grant-to-loan
Yes, the tories are losing their minds via media, talkback and social media re the 'green school', and would any of them have voted Green anyway? Nope
There's more to a party than one person, and that's another reason why I will be voting for the Green's this election.
Also Treasury opposed it.
Shaw got well worked over by locals, sure.
But it's clear Shaw chose to push it through despite massive cross-government warning all the way up to Cabinet.
This is on Shaw alone.
When first approached by the couple who's school it is, James encouraged them not to apply at all. Fun fact.
He meant 'a gift to our children' pretty literally I guess.
Looks like James Shaw just lost Gordon Campbell from Scoop.
Given that Campbell used to run strategy for the Greens, it's a loss from an influential left commentator.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2009/S00012/on-james-shaws-spectacular-own-goal.htm
Gordon Campbell reckons James' mistake "now risks alienating another Green constituency: teachers in state schools."
I don't believe teachers are so highly-strung that they'll abandon the Green Party over this, especially given James' apology; teachers know to blame the behaviour, not the person.
Nor do I think The Greens have lost the confidence and support of Gordon Campbell; he’s not flakey.
Campbell is great journalist, a solid fact-based leftie.
Because of this I think perhaps he should read Dennis Frank's post above re the process that was taken to approve the (non-education budget) cash for the Green School.
Shaw's opinion was supported by the Taranaki region (the mayor/Venture Taranaki) and qualified as a somewhat green, job rich and innovative shovel ready project.
Shaw's small error of judgement needs to be contrasted with his solid support for Climate Change measures and for a Wealth Tax that will raise $7.9 billion annually to alleviate poverty. Context is everything.
The media has targeted Shaw to try to get the Greens under 5%, as with Matiria Turei in 2017.
Hitting Shaw with their outraged handbags.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NyixQ54vS8
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/middayreport/audio/2018762068/james-shaw-apologises-for-green-school-decision
Gordon Campbell's not a reactionary, with an axe to grind then use to give James Shaw the chop, as Ad appears to be.
Respect Gordon Campbell, which is unusual in post-Welfare State NZ politics, but disagree with him.
Thing is, the wealth tax is a solid turn-off to a segment of voters that might vote green.
Shovelling a load of taxpayer money at an elitist eco-mysticism (lovely euphemism) private school is likely to be another solid turn-off to the same segment.
Another big turn-off is the absence of anyone high on the list of the calibre and substance of the likes of Hague or Graham or Norman that give the impression of seeing ways to implement environmental improvement in the context of a modern, population-dense, technological society. Hell, even Gareth Hughes has pulled the pin. Genter and Sage are certainly solid in their areas of interest, but realistically they seem limited in range. Shaw seemed to have represented that aspect of green thought, but if it turns out he's fully on board with woo-woo …
James Shaw did exceptional work on the Climate Change legislation; his skills were lauded near and far. It's difficult to see why you wouldn't consider that "environmental improvement in the context of a modern, population-dense, technological society."
You last sentence seems nonsensical. Perhaps you too woo woo?
I'm not ignoring it, it's part of the balance I'm considering, and that others I know consider. But it's only one factor and nowhere near enough on its own to outweigh a whole lot of negatives that are adding up.
So you don't think James Shaw is someone, " high on the list of the calibre and substance of the likes of Hague or Graham or Norman that give the impression of seeing ways to implement environmental improvement in the context of a modern, population-dense, technological society.", as per your comment?
I used to. But if he put it all on the line for the Green School after meeting the owners, as described in Harman's article, then I now really have serious doubts.
That seems very … light… of you.
Jobs, green infrastructure instead of brown, lots of support from local council, those where the boxes ticked and it's pretty clear why Shaw was supportive. Looks to me like people are using the crystal workshop stuff as an excuse, because really it has nothing to do with the contract. Am still waiting for lefties to have a go at Māori for including woo in their education.
Do it, do it, do it!!
Did Gordon Campbell do that as well as Andrew Campbell?
Are you insinuating that the quotation is baloney?
(No response, so I thought I would accentuate the point. I myself don't remember Gordon Campbell being loudly connected to the Greens..)
I was at the pub.
The quote was an opinion that Ad said was notable because of the author's position. I don't know the author's CV, but do know AC was in a position that fits the description.
I tend to agree with Robert, though – the cockup caused a rucus, but I doubt the ripples will last until the election.
Yeah, true. Hope you enjoyed the pub…
not as much as the folks at the other end of the bar, apparently lol
GC seems to be conflating the govt with the Greens. What's the GP involvement in the DHB decisions been?
Shaw made a mistake, the Greens concentrate on what matters most, just not great sellers of it. Not for a millisecond will I put aside helping the neediest as the Greens promise, unlike Labour.
Bohemian sort of Rhapsody about Covid-19 – Clever
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Eo9M4-BrJA
More pork Theisen employed by a GOP superpac telling more porkies on behalf of Trump.He is not a journalist merely writes propaganda opinion pieces every 2 weeks in the Washington post.
Reply button not working sorry.
Oh! Classic put-down in the House just now, of Judith Collins by Grant Robertson!
"A coalition is a little bit like a marriage, you can’t control everything your partner does."
Judith fumed.
She ‘could use a little more laughter in her life’.
Could she not see his eyebrows
Superb. Robertson is much-underrated due to Jacindamania.
LMFAO!!!!!!
She mustn't have seen the Robinson had his eye brows raised.
Nicola Willis failed miserably to pin anything to James Shaw at Question Time. James is another adroit, capable politician who can, as Grant Robertson showed today, defeat quibble with straight answers.
I watched that one too, she was terrible. nat's used QT today to put the knife into James. A great distraction from their own misgivings, especially considering the ChCh earthquake rebuild report that's just been released.
https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=215450
Had Shaw not funded the green school or whatever it is, we would be subject to barrage after barrage of press releases condemning him for being 'ideologically opposed to private education', 'beholden to the teachers unions', 'a watermelon' and so on.
The guy couldn't win here.
The guy will win here.
Given the ghastly, pathetic polemic strung together by Newshub 6pm News tonight, I think you might be right, Robert.
What discerning Green-voter would be influenced by that?
Nice to hear that from you, In Vino (veritas).
"The James Shaw political pile-on is off the charts after Newshub revealed he strong-armed ministerial colleagues to get funding for the controversial privately-owned Taranaki Green School." (My bold/James' bold!)
"Strong-armed" – James Shaw! Go James. Deploy that strong arm of yours! On your ministerial colleagues! It's the Green Way!!!! KAPOW!!!
How come that loony managed to break James' eye socket when he punched him? James you bruiser, we need you at the gym keeping up those fitness upper-body building tactics – get that strong-arm going – Now.
ohttps://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/425075/james-shaw-battles-to-restore-his-credibility
Jane Patterson RNZ Political Editor here having her dig at Shaw so she can be in sync with all the other excited, outraged etc. journos.
She's turned nautical: Power Play – This time last election James Shaw captained the Green Party through the stormy waters after Metiria Turei's dramatic resignation – now he's in danger of capsizing the ship himself.
I remember a pleasure boat filled with happy holidaymakers tuning turtle while tied at the wharf, USA I think. There was a great loss of life. The reason – something of interest appeared on one side – everyone rushed to see it – the boat tipped over. If the Right manage to catch people's idle minds with this squawking about green education, private, etc the whole election could sink.
It's time for all true Greens to stand by their leader, stay away from the controversy, largely stay schtum, and remember that the Greens have been trying for many elections to get stuff done. James was elected to try a new approach so all you austere, lean, outdoor types have been relatively unsuccessful. STFU now, show your intelligence and restraint, and get done what is available. Once the green education thing gets going, it could be fine-tuned to face the right direction. So don't stymie a positive change that they have agreed to in Taranaki.
At present there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
No.
Millsy he wouldnt have lost any votes though,Although you would have to be a real far weather green if you used this as an excuse to not vote green .
"Fair-weather green" – love that, bwaghorn!
Chris Hipkins' contribution to the final debate was great story-telling that should be enjoyed by all:
General Debate, video 12.
150 hours of community service for viciously beating an animal does nothing to send the message that animals do feel pain and fear and that their lives really do mean nothing when the offender is slapped with a " wet bus ticket "
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122645593/christchurch-man-captured-on-video-beating-dog-with-wooden-plank
Reading early comments here, immediate matters no longer matter. Longer views are the new immediate politics.
Aren't we all tired of what appears on the Front Page? Expected to get excited about passing shit.
https://youtu.be/ind7BEZgWJU
🖕
https://youtu.be/iZpnH4CD8Js