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Open Mike 02/01/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 2nd, 2017 - 102 comments
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102 comments on “Open Mike 02/01/2017”

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      Looking closely at that I don’t think he’s done any actual damage and most people will just giggle and get on with their lives. There’s no reason to jail or even punish him.

  1. Rosemary McDonald 2

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/87711139/calls-to-end-discriminatory-minimum-wage-exemption-scheme

    Did y’all know that there is a whopping total of 868 Minimum Wage Exemption permits issued in New Zealand?

    That’s 868 New Zealand employers who have permission from our government to pay disabled workers much less than the minimum wage.

    868 arseholes who think that disabled people are worth less than….what?….’normal’ people.

    868 businesses happy to exploit people with disabilities to generate profit.

    And, of course…very hard to find out who exactly these people are…

    • Carolyn_nth 2.1

      And, I guess there’s no/little information on what jobs the under-paid people are actually doing? All seems to hide behind some fog, whereby employers can just decide to employ people at less than minimum wage if it suits them.

    • mary_a 2.2

      Rosemary McDonald (2) …

      This is disgraceful Rosemary.

      And shame on the government for issuing these obnoxious exemptions, based obviously on a person’s physical disability, which is no indicator of someone’s work performance!

      Discrimination at its worst.

      “And, of course…very hard to find out who exactly these people are…”

      But what we do know is that they will undoubtedly be friends/supporters/bank rollers of the Natz!

      • Sacha 2.2.1

        Most of the exemptions are likely to relate to intellectual rather than physical impairment. The system was set up by the last Labour govt, so its application has not been partisan. Some parties are promising to overturn the policy if elected.

        • Red 2.2.1.1

          Yes sheltered workshops etc, set up for social reasons to benift mentally impaired Tend to do things like secondary packaging, overlabelling etc. Firms outsource to them as cheap, thus a win win albeit slower and some times lower quality for firm plus cost of moving product to and from workshop , if these workshops are forced to pay market rates they would no longer exist, and again they are set up more for social reasons not financial. morale of story don’t jump to outrage before doing a modicum of research

          • Rosemary McDonald 2.2.1.1.1

            If we knew who these firms were that had Minimum Wage Exemptions we would be in a much better position to express outrage.

            But we don’t, usually.

            I can recall only one ‘business’ that employed people with learning disabilities who came out and spoke publicly about the whys and wherefores…. Southland Disability Enterprises.

            http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/spectrum/audio/201795847/a-business-with-heart

            Now the workers here seem happy, and most importantly engaged. There is no doubt that being at work provides many benefits to them…a pity that the benefits don’t extend to actually being able to get off a benefit. In enterprises like this, where there is a direct environmental benefit it would be more than appropriate for the Gummint to stump up and subsidise wages.

            OTOH…I heard that some of the companies that contract to airlines to refurbish headsets and package meals also use below minimum wage employees….unconscionable for an entirely profit driven company.

    • millsy 2.3

      A couple I personally know hired a man who was intellectually disabled as a relief milker, and he was a really hard reliable worker. They paid him the same rate as they would any other worker. Though they had to let him go, for unerelated reasons which I am not willing to disclose here.

  2. Olwyn 3

    An opinion piece by Stephen Hawking that is worth a read. By his account, the good of our species and our planet depends upon our willingness to address inequality. One observation that gives a snapshot of our time is of people who have access to cell-phones but lack drinkable water. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/01/stephen-hawking-dangerous-time-planet-inequality?CMP=fb_gu

  3. greywarshark 4

    Laughter Is The Best Medicine. Laugh till you cry, and then laugh again ironically.
    Jonathan Pie’s 2016 rant.

  4. RedBaronCV 5

    What are we being softened up for? There is another story today about some research that has been around for a while linking it to the Bill English so called “social investment ” approach.
    This social investment approach should more accurately be called out for what it is – data amassed by building a data base of the entire population ( massive snooping – sod privacy concerns) and used to typecast ( and creating a self fulfilling expectation – the circular loop) who may not do so well in life.

    Once again – nothing about homing in on the perpetrators or causes of bad outcomes whether it be working out who will be a major tax cheat , an upper class domestic violence perpetrator, belong to a political party that has policy settings designed to cause community chaos and the rest.

    So why are we getting this steady stream of RW propaganda – fix all social problems with an 18 page brochure?

    life outcomes

    • DH 5.1

      I always shake my head at this type of ‘research’. If it really was possible to predict the outcome at age 3 then logic dictates it must be impossible to change the outcome (*) so what’s the point of it?

      * if you can change the outcome then obviously you can’t predict the outcome.

    • garibaldi 5.2

      Well done RedBaronCV. Let’s watch neoliberalism totally cock this one up like every social issue it ‘adresses’.
      Sadly Neoliberslism still haunts the Labour Party.

      • RedBaronCV 5.2.1

        Yes I am suspicious of the motives.
        Most RW social policy seems to consist of initiatives akin to driving someone 5 K’s out of town, turning around and driving 1 k back towards town then pushing them out and telling them that they were better off than they were 5 minutes ago.

        Looking at what Nact does rather than what it says is interesting:
        Take prisons – apparently Bill doesn’t want to build anymore according to a recent story – but didn’t they defund some of the voluntary prison visiting charities? For the amount of money that would go into something like that you’d only need about 1 success a year to pay for it.

        Or the defunding of Rape Crisis Centre’s & Women’s Refuges which also have considerable donated support and volunteer involvement but they give about $400,000 to the White Ribbon Trust ( which really has no donated funds) and the money is spent on a salary and a promotional campaign to make them look like Nact are doing something.
        Why doesn’t White Ribbon have to do the hard yards the refuges have to do around money? Maybe Bill needs to push the line that violence costs male taxpayers lots of tax so they had better get together and pay attention rather than hitting at the outcome of the poor behaviour.

        • DH 5.2.1.1

          I looked up the Dunedin Study last time it was mentioned here. There’s a huge amount of reports on it but that’s all they are – studies of a study. The data doesn’t lie but I found the conclusions reached from data are often highly subjective and well nigh useless.

          That link led to another here which has some interesting snippets;

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/80402120/Dunedin-providing-the-data-that-could-shape-humanitys-future

          This bit here…..

          “Spanish officials are also currently intensely interested in the Dunedin Study, Moffitt says, because their adolescents are currently facing similar rates of youth unemployment and economic failure to those experienced by young Kiwis in the late 1980s.

          “I think that was actually the major event that has happened in the Dunedin Study members’ lives – that terrible economic recession New Zealand went through quietly on its own when they were 15. Many of them had expected to leave school and go into full employment – which is what had always been the way in New Zealand – and then suddenly the financial rug was pulled out from underneath them – the youth unemployment rate went up to 30 per cent. I think this cohort lived through something that was unique – other countries weren’t suffering it then, but are now.”

          Now that seriously conflicts with the claims about predicting outcomes from the age of 3. Clearly the economic environment we’re brought up in plays a large part in our future outcomes.

          It’s all bollocks anyway, all these researchers & beancounters seem able to do is identify problems we already know about while never coming up with the right answers.

    • millsy 5.3

      This is all about tightening up eligibility for social programs to the point where only 1% qualify, and the rest of us will be left to our own devices.

  5. greywarshark 6

    Bwaghorn
    I saw a comment that you are withdrawing from commenting and am personally sorry. I have enjoyed reading your comments from farming NZ so if you can come in this year and drop in some information from your experience then please. Hope you are well and can be back after a break.

    • RedBaronCV 6.1

      Me too – enjoyed the farming perspective comments – do pop in occasionally if you can

    • weka 6.2

      Me three. I missed their comment, but if true that is a loss for the site 🙁

    • bwaghorn 6.3

      Cheers , nothing wrong with me , just a possible change in lifestyle will cut down my comments, ad to that the more i’ve learnt to think due to hanging around here the more i realise i don’t know, and i don’t really have the large amount of time it would take to educate myself to the standard level.
      i also only said might fade away , it’ll be harder to give up my occasional ranting here than it was to give up smoking.
      Happy new years

      • Andre 6.3.1

        There’s no deficiencies in your thinking or your contribution here. There’s plenty of educated idiots here whose comments don’t rate a click, but I’m always interested in what you have to say.

  6. greywarshark 7

    I am listening to Radionz interview and the woman is very lively and doing lots of things and doing further tertiary education. She says she wants her life to matter, learning about stuff and passing on the information etc.
    Sounds a really good motto for each of us.

    11.15 Jesse Milligan
    Food with Mawera Karetai
    If you want to make the perfect peach chutney you better tune in to hear Mawera Karetai
    wildcook.co.nz
    Probably on live audio later. Nice to listen to.

  7. Draco T Bastard 8

    The UBI already exists for the 1%

    The universal basic income — a cash payment made to every individual in the country — has been critiqued recently by some commentators. Among other things, these writers dislike the fact that a UBI would deliver individuals income in a way that is divorced from working. Such an income arrangement would, it is argued, lead to meaninglessness, social dysfunction, and resentment.

    One obvious problem with this analysis is that passive income — income divorced from work — already exists. It is called capital income. It flows out to various individuals in society in the form of interest, rents, and dividends. According to Piketty, Saez, and Zucman (PSZ), around 30% of all the income produced in the nation is paid out as capital income.

    If passive income is so destructive, then you would think that centuries of dedicating one-third of national income to it would have burned society to the ground by now.

    Well, society’s been burned to the ground before by those with excessive passive income and it’s getting that way again. There’s a very good reason why every major religion in the world bans usury and yet our entire capitalist system is based upon it.

    • Clump_AKA Sam 8.1

      Government programmes should be retitled to its true name which is a welfare programs. Take Internet entrepreneurs for one. There’s maybe 40 steps to actually turn on the Internet. Tech capitalist only hit on maybe the last two steps, the rest was publicly funded research. But tech entrepreneurs take the discount and laugh all the way to the bank. I’m mildly surprised the public has allowed themselves to be fooled but sometimes ignorance is bliss.

    • ropata 8.2

      Great link, shows up the (lack of) morality of UBI opponents… they actually like a system that spreads inequality and poverty

      A national UBI would work very similarly. The US federal government would employ various strategies (mandatory share issuances, wealth taxes, counter-cyclical asset purchases, etc.) to build up a big wealth fund that owns capital assets. Those capital assets would deliver returns. And then the returns would be parceled out as a social dividend. If you have a problem with this, but not the current arrangement where capital income is paid out in huge sums to small fractions of our society, then your issue is not really with passive income. It can’t be.

    • jcuknz 8.3

      At current interest rates on reasonably secure investments I doubt if the PSZ figure is accurate these days.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1

        Considering the ongoing fall in wages at the bottom I wouldn’t be surprised if the amount going to the top 1% was the same or even more.

  8. Bill Drees 9

    SORT YOURSELVES OUT PLEASE.

    Labour Hame is the blog site of the Labour Party in Scotland.
    Brave: the editor/moderator had allowed strongly critical debates to rage in the past few days. Some serious soul searching writing.

    http://labourhame.com/sort-yourselves-out-please/
    http://labourhame.com/scotlands-place-in-Europe/

    They both beg the question: is it too late for Labour in Scotland to mend its ways.

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      Wasn’t the 2000s the time to ask and answer that question. They didn’t, and the consequence is their near total electoral implosion.

      • Bill Drees 9.1.1

        Yes. Watching Scottish Labour over the past few years was like watching a slow motion train wreck in a movie.
        It is possible the same could happen south of the border.
        The Tories could divide on a Constitutional question: half the population see membership of the EU as an essential part of their identity and/or economic wellbeing.
        Similar questions arise in Labour: I can’t see the mass of new on-line Corbyn supporting members being anti-European. The trouble for Corbyn is he will loose them with his current weak engagement on a defining constitutional and existential question.
        The biggest upheaval of English and U.K. politics since 1922 and 1945?

        “All changed, changed utterly:
        A terrible beauty is born.”
        Yeats, Easter 1916, oft quoted by Alex Salmond.

    • Italy Calling 9.2

      Add into the maelstrom of the 2017 politics of Scotland and England the scenario of the accession of Prince Charles to the throne……

      THAT would be like adding jet fuel to a fire!! Even hardened Scots Unionists find him hard to accept.

      • millsy 9.2.1

        I think you will find that Charles will stand aside to let William take the throne, spending the rest of his life as a roving animal rights ambassador or something.

  9. just watch Bennett bash us all with her sob story of how she was a solo mum . I bet she will not tell us who looked after her baby while she went to universality or what Party was in power that made it possible for her to go .

    • alwyn 10.1

      ” I bet she will not tell us ………… what Party was in power that made it possible for her to go “.
      Why would she not tell you?
      She started University in 1994 apparently and had certainly graduated sometime prior to the 1999 election.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Bennett#Early_life_and_career
      I guess she would have to say it was the National Government wouldn’t she?
      Thank you to Jim Bolger.

      • Kay 10.1.1

        And those of us who have been on a benefit during the 90s and the present day (mostly long term ill/disabled hence the long time frame) will tell you that despite how bad it became for us in the 90s, it was a hell of a lot easier to be on a benefit then than it is now.

        Obviously Ruth and Jenny just weren’t extreme enough even for Paula, or perhaps they just weren’t as psychopathic.

        • greywarshark 10.1.1.1

          Kay
          The intention is to gradually strip away government ie collective help until you are as dependent on charity as the poor in Victorian times even to after WW2 in Britain.
          The Poor Law introduced by Elizabeth 1 as basic rights would be what they (the elites and in power) are ready to revert to.

          In NZ we already have people sleeping on the street etc. Drugs and RTDs to degrade the young as in the old days, Gin, drunk for a penny, dead drunk for tuppence. They want the poor and indigent to sink and match the situation that they already imagine. It’s beyond belief but it is observable so therefore believe.

  10. Wairua 11

    Has anyone hear of Peter Jackson’s Film Mausoleum .. I mean museum .. recently ?

  11. Jenny 12

    There are two things that the National government have completely and totally failed on.

    They are Housing and climate change.

    These are kthe governments two weakest positions.

    Not Shitty rivers, not the economy , not any other topic

    These two things are what what any winning election strategy needs to be about.

    We must hit the Nats where they are weakest.

    Where they have no credbible defence for their behaviour.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/nov/11/homeless-shock-daisy-may-hudson-film-half-way

    • BM 12.1

      We must hit the Nats where they are weakest.

      Kiwi build is nothing more than talking points

      No idea what Labour is going to do regarding climate change doesn’t seem to be anything on their website, obviously not a pirioty

      Struggle to see what you’re going to hit the Nats with?

  12. Clump_AKA Sam 13

    Correction Andrew. It’s tikanga my boy. Not some jumped up hippie idea floating around you brainless mind

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Clump_AKA Sam 13.1

      By the way, Sanders 2020 all day. Plug over

      • David C 13.1.1

        LOL sure.

        If Sanders wins the nomination in 2020 I will eat this laptop.

        Sanders flying on the back of a pig is more likely.

        • WILD KATIPO 13.1.1.1

          A few pearls of wisdom from our resident establishment supporter, Sam C’s brother.

          Man, I just cant believe how much salt in the wound happened to these types first with Trump winning then Key leaving. Man that must smart like billio.

          • David C 13.1.1.1.1

            Wow . So much delusion in one short comment.

            Trump is a loon and would have been beaten by any half decent Dem candidate. Pity the Dems but up Hillary instead.

            Tho I hope Trump spends the next 8 years erasing anything the vacuous Obumbler did while in office.

            I applaud Key for going, I hope he goes sits in the sun for a long time drinks a lot and catches up on reading a lot of crap novels.
            He has done so much for NZ and for so little. Its not as tho he needed the job is it.

            • Gabby 13.1.1.1.1.1

              It remains to be seen how much he needed the job.

              • David C

                Gabby.
                Key was reported in 2007 (I think by NBR) of being worth $50Mil.
                If he left it in the hands of a competent but middling conservative investment house he will be worth $150 Mil now.
                I dont think he needed the pay packet .

                • ” I applaud Key for going, I hope he goes sits in the sun for a long time drinks a lot and catches up on reading a lot of crap novels.
                  He has done so much for NZ and for so little. Its not as tho he needed the job is it. ”

                  ^ This ones got it bad . Pining for a lost love after Key ditched them.

                  Sam C’s little brother … its over. Keys gone.

                  And must we really have to drag out Blips Honest John list every time you display your separation anxiety over Keys ditching you? Its getting rather embarrassing seeing you display this unhealthy clinging on to the past about Keys artificial economy based on cheap immigration labor and an equally artificial housing bubble. And the surveillance of the populace Key initiated when he was Obama’s little puppy.

                  Keys gone. Accept it. And you are the last person he gives a damn about.

            • Clump_AKA Sam 13.1.1.1.1.2

              Doesn’t matter who the leader of the free world is. You can still make money either way.

  13. Andrew 14

    I’m also a Sanders supporter.

    Jumped up hippie idea? You must be out of your damn mind. How hippie is an organised mass workers’ party? If I’m a hippie, so were Kautsky and Bernstein, two people you won’t have heard of.

    There’s nothing more hippie and flaky than Internet Mana who lost the 2014 election for the left.

    Incoherence can often be mistaken for radicalism, that’s the mistake you make

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Clump_AKA Sam 14.1

      The Mana movement has always acted out of bottom up decision making matrixes – That’s English for tikanga. It just happens to overlap with the most vulnerable people in New Zealand. It’s fundamental to any maori structure.

      I’m also a big believer in matching personality with process. If fighting hard for Pani me te rawakori and loses upsets you, I suggest you go join ACT.

      • garibaldi 14.1.1

        Hone’s accident just before the election was also a factor in his campaigning.

        • Clump_AKA Sam 14.1.1.1

          The Mana Movment put the Internet Mana merger to a vote which obviously went through with only one vote the difference. So when you dis Hone for the merger your dissing 5000 people. I was a bit more straight up at the time and said it was a dumb idea and drag Sue back in and apologise. But the vote was counted, water under the bridge now

  14. Colonial Viper 15

    Lionel: CIA weaponised the term “Conspiracy Theory” through its media outlets since 1967

  15. Fisiani 16

    What major difference will Labour offer in November. Housing nope mats already doing that. I guess it will be asking the hard working poor to pay for free education of students to get students and their families votes

  16. Kriss X 17

    Great work and I welcome the release of any information that exposes those in power.

    My only issue is that these activists do not hold left leaning governments to account in the same way, in spite of the left leaning governments having (by far) the very worst human rights records.

    [lprent: This reads to me like a deliberate diversion Quite what it has to do with the post wasn’t established and whoever this is reads like another idiot “justice campaigner” who has spent way too much time reading comic books.

    Banned for 4 weeks. ]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Sacha 17.1

      “left leaning governments having (by far) the very worst human rights records”

      Provide links to evidence, please. Facts about New Zealand governments would be best. We can wait.

      • David C 17.1.1

        Sacha.
        Has New Zild really ever had a true lefty govt?
        I mean with a true Lefty like Stalin or Pol Pot at the helm?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1.1.1

          Oh look, Davy-wavy made a joke!

          Congratulations Davy. What a clever boy!

          • David C 17.1.1.1.1

            Spot on OAB for once.
            The idea of a real Left Govt in NZ is truly laughable.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1.1.1.1.1

              Laugh? I nearly did.

              • David C

                OAB.
                I am happy to just laugh at you.

                • Clump_AKA Sam

                  You are showing a complete lack of understanding about democratic structures.

                  • David C

                    Sam.
                    tell me what part of democratic am I not understanding WRT Stalin or Pol Pot?

                    • Clump_AKA Sam

                      Youd have to find a link between dictators and New Zealand first before you could have a proper discussion about it.

                    • David C

                      Easy to find to find a link between the Left, and murderous dictators.

                      But you know that.

                      One of the few things the Left is great at is starving and killing poor people.

                    • Clump_AKA Sam

                      So millions of labourers starved and killed themselves did they? I’ll give you a hint. That didn’t happen.

                    • David C

                      So 5 million people starving to death in 1932 was imaginary?
                      All those ghosts will be so relieved.

                      oh and..”Pol Pot (1925-1998) and his communist Khmer Rouge movement led Cambodia from 1975 to 1979. During that time, about 1.5 million Cambodians out of a total population of 7 to 8 million died of starvation, execution, disease or overwork.”

                      Good Leftys all.

                    • Clump_AKA Sam

                      What do you think you are talking about now?

                    • Clump_AKA Sam

                      Bro. You’re pushing tinfoil muh boi. You need to go and study more

            • WILD KATIPO 17.1.1.1.1.2

              Here he is again , Sam C’s brother , citing examples of extremes ( aka communism ) to justify their neo liberal greed.

              Its an old ploy of Sam and Davids, – indeed any of these paid up card carrying National party Key sycophantic types ( they’re still hurting bad from Keys ditching them ) – they love to spread the fallacy about social democracy being the same as communism.

              Its part of their instructions to do so.

              But, – its old , its boring , and past its use by date . Like neo liberalism. The sad thing is , both Sam and David C are a little…slow… on the update and don’t realize they’re not only making a fool of themselves willingly – they are being laughed at by their masters all at the same time.

              Poor Sam and David C.

        • Clump_AKA Sam 17.1.1.2

          It’s actually a 3 stage process designed so any one can leave the farm, do work, then go back to the farm. 1) inform yourself 2)mobilise 3)act to control leaders. And then go back to the farm.

      • Kriss X 17.1.2

        So you have never heard of Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and Hitler ? Just a few legends in the socialist hall of fame.

        I suggest you should probably refrain from comment until you educate yourself a bit. Those people were able to take things to the extreme because of ignorant apologists like you.

        The left needs to raise its game and connect with the people it professes to represent.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 17.2

      Meanwhile, on Earth, the vast majority of NZ lefties are social democrats. That doesn’t stop flaccid unoriginal toryboys pretending that working for families is communism by stealth, of course.

      Sadly, even parrots learn quicker than you.

  17. Morrissey 18

    President Dopey-Changenothing looks really saintly in this picture

    Eighteen days of ineffectiveness to go….

    http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/politics/obama-defends-legacy-on-twitter

  18. greywarshark 19

    Kayaker paddles all the way around NZ. 431 days on the water. A great feat.
    Radionz 10:41 pm on 31 December 2016

    An Auckland woman has finished circumnavigating the country by kayak for charity.
    Lynn Paterson has spent 431 days on the water since setting off in October last year.
    Others have circumnavigated the country in sections, but Ms Paterson is the first to do so in one fell swoop.

    Her support crew tracked her in her overnight accommodation, a campervan.
    She said her biggest fear was failing to complete the trip.

    “I’ve sort of kept it a little bit quiet until I got ’round Cape Reinga and all of the West Coast – until I started to feel that actually, yes, I am going to make it”, she said.
    “Because any day you could fall over and damage yourself, an arm or something, and then I wouldn’t have been able to achieve it. So yes, I am starting to be very proud of myself.”

    Ms Paterson has raised more than $7000 for the Mental Health Foundation while doing her circumnavigation.

  19. adam 20

    Can we get a new rule?

    One where by anyone who goes ‘you lefties’ and then talks about regressive dictatorships – gets a week off?

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