Open mike 02/03/2015

134 comments on “Open mike 02/03/2015 ”

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1. phillip ure 1

   2 March 2015 at 7:15 am

   (first laff of the week..)

   “..Stuff looks at premium membership..” (ed:..now that is funny..!..)

   “..Fairfax Media’s news website stuff.co.nz may not be considering a paywall –

   – but options to offer a premium membership service to New Zealand online readers are ‘really quite exciting’-

   – says Fairfax Media chief executive Greg Hywood..”

   (cont..)

   (ed:..this one has me both puzzled and laughing..

   ..what wd this ‘premium-service’ be..?

   ..are they suddenly going to get ‘better’..?.”

   (cont..)

   http://whoar.co.nz/2015/stuff-looks-at-premium-membership-ed-now-that-is-funny/
   • Paul 1.1

     2 March 2015 at 7:22 am

     Hope they use a paywall.
     Then even less people will read their propaganda.
     • phillip ure 1.1.1

       2 March 2015 at 7:46 am

       it really cracks me up – the pretensions/self-regard they have for what – quality-wise

       – is the equivalent of a supermarket tabloid giveaway..

       ..as in – a really crap rag..

       ..and the herald is little better..

       ..the dead-tree media does not serve us well..

       ..and the funny thing is..stuff and whoar are looking out at the same media-world..

       ..how is it i can find so much good shit each and every day..(about 50 stories/links usually..)

       ..and these people just seek out/publish the mindless fucken dross..?

       ..and how some stories stay on their site for what seems eons..?
       • phillip ure 1.1.1.1

         2 March 2015 at 8:04 am

         and the huge amount of people/activity to produce something so lite-weight..

         ..(vs..one person @ whoar..)

         ..is a modern-mystery..

         .as in..w.t.f do they all do all day..?
     • Pasupial 1.1.2

       2 March 2015 at 8:41 am

       At least Rhinehart is selling up her stake in fearfacts, so it’ll be less of a mouthpiece for mining interests with any luck.
   • Skinny 1.2

     2 March 2015 at 7:43 am

     The MSM have been trying to combat the effect the internet has on their new papers for years. They are up against it with decent sites such as this one. I don’t buy their papers and certainly won’t be paying to read their propaganda. Stuff online is crap and they can get stuffed trying to pay wall their dross.
   • AsleepWhileWalking 1.3

     2 March 2015 at 8:03 am

     If it isn’t a paywall then the premium service is probably offering targeted news. Either that or a pathetic gateway that forces non subscribers to look at an ad that will be tolerated only by those who reside in hospital and have run out of Women’s Weekly.

     Basically with targeted news the viewer is profiled based on what they have read in the past, ordered online etc.

     Unfortunately it isn’t the news you are most familiar with that you need to be aware of (meaning that if I’m right and this is the type of service they are going to offer those who are foolish enough to subscribe will end up even less informed than they already are….).
     • AsleepWhileWalking 1.3.1

       2 March 2015 at 8:20 am

       Wait.a.minute…

       What if someone set up a registered charity? The charitable purpose would be to disseminate information free of charge or political bias that is so prevalent in our news media. The site would be supported by charitable donations and therefore fully tax deductable. Hog damn.

       https://charities.govt.nz/apply-for-registration/charitable-purpose/
       • phillip ure 1.3.1.1

         2 March 2015 at 10:06 am

         maybe i should do that with whoar…
         • cyclonemike 1.3.1.1.1

           2 March 2015 at 3:38 pm

           Yeah – but most of your links are to stories from the main stream media anyway. Where you going to run to then?
           You guys who hate on the media but spend your whole time linking to it and commenting on it make me laugh.
           • phillip ure 1.3.1.1.1.1

             2 March 2015 at 3:45 pm

             not so..not all msm is shit..

             ..the guardian/independent r two of merit..

             ..it is just that our m.s.m is shit…
             • cyclonemike …

               2 March 2015 at 4:44 pm

               So much judgement from someone who has not created any original content in his life.
               How hard is it to sit at the kitchen table and cut and paste links all day?
               • phillip ure …

                 2 March 2015 at 6:20 pm

                 all original material is in the op-ed section @ whoar..

                 here’s ten yrs worth..

                 http://whoar.co.nz/category/op-ed/

                 your turn…

                 ..how hard is it to bitch bullshit..?..eh..?
                 • cyclonemike …

                   3 March 2015 at 8:28 am

                   Give me a break. Every one of those I looked at on your page was a couple of short sentences linking to an MSM story. Even a letter-to-the-editor writer could do better.
     • David H 1.3.2

       2 March 2015 at 3:59 pm

       Premium service. Advertorials written by such stalwarts as Mike Hoskings in support of something or other. Sky or the Nats he don’t care.
2. phillip ure 2

   2 March 2015 at 7:21 am

   (this reasoned demolition of austerity-politics is worth the read..)

   “..Mr Osborne’s Economic Experiment: Austerity 1945-51 and 2010- review – an elegant demolition of the chancellor’s policies..

   ..By comparing Britain in 2010 with the postwar years of his childhood –

   – William Keegan demolishes the coalition’s arguments for austerity economics..”

   (cont..)

   http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/mar/01/osborne-economic-experiment-austerity-1945-51-2010-elegant-demolition-chancellor-policies
3. phillip ure 3

   2 March 2015 at 8:07 am

   “..Drugs Live: why I wanted to get stoned on TV..

   ..Channel 4’s experiment into the effects of cannabis –

   – aims to research the differences between ingesting hashish and skunk –

   – in a controlled environment..”

   (cont..)

   (um..!..why either/or..?..why not both together..?

   ..(mm!!!..skunk leavened with hash..!..tasty..!..)

   http://www.theguardian.com/society/shortcuts/2015/mar/01/drugs-live-why-wanted-to-get-stoned-live-tv-channel-four
4. Skinny 4

   2 March 2015 at 8:41 am

   I see leader of the God Botherers Collin Craig has announced they will not contest the Northland By-Election. Craig has said he does not want to split the Centre-Right vote and give arch rival Winston Peters a helping hand.

   I am of the opinion that the con jobs would more likely take more votes off Peters than the National party’s patsy candidate. Things are falling nicely into place for the old shark Winnie.
   • Enough is Enough 4.1

     2 March 2015 at 10:46 am

     Why do you describe the National party’s candidate a patsy?
     • phillip ure 4.1.1

       2 March 2015 at 10:56 am

       because he is being set up for a fall..?

       ..’beauty-parlour’ owner from taipa..as he is..

       .(i guess he puts the ‘small’ in ‘small-business..)
     • Skinny 4.1.2

       2 March 2015 at 12:03 pm

       Because according to a very good source within the region, HQ (Goodfellow, Joyce) steamrollered the local democratic process. They figure they already have the farmers vote more so than the small business sector. So apparently many of the rural voting delegates were spewing National office kept pushing forward their man and taking no notice the wishes of them to install their favourite farming son.

       Such was the angry mood, the snub to Peters could be on the cards. Even unsuccessful candidate Ken R who setup and stood for his own indie party Focus NZ last election, he achieved the quite remarkable result of 1,600 candidate votes to stand in protest. He hammered Nationals abandonment of Northland during the campaign and picked up alot of their votes. Focus NZ Whangarei candidate was most impressive at our forum, with a hold no bars let down by National speech.
   • swordfish 4.2

     2 March 2015 at 5:28 pm

     “I am of the opinion that the con jobs would more likely take more votes off Peters than the National Party’s patsy candidate. Things are falling nicely into place for the old shark Winnie.”

     It’d certainly be nice to think the absence of a Conservative candidate will hurt National more than NZF or Labour. And I know more than a few commentators see the Conservatives and NZF appealing to essentially the same constituency. But I have strong doubts on that score.

     For one thing, people who Party-Voted Conservative in 2011 and 2014 were pretty evenly split in their Candidate-Vote between the National and Cons candidates. Vey few went Labour and even fewer NZF.

     The Candidate-Vote split for people who had Party-Voted Conservative in 2014 (for General Electorates as a whole), for instance, was 42% Nat, 41% Cons, 10% Lab, 2% NZF

     In Northland at the last Election, Cons split 40% Con / 44% Nat in their Candidate-Vote. So a fairly typical seat. Admittedly, that means, of course, that quite a few erstwhile Cons would be voting National in this By-election anyway, regardless of whether or not a Con candidate stood. But it does still suggest (albeit not proving beyond doubt) that, with no candidate of their own, those Cons that do turn out to vote (and who gave two ticks to the Conservatives at the last General Election) will more likely go National’s way.

     The other comparative measure to look at is: the relative proportion of National and NZF voters who cast their Candidate-Vote for the Cons. It’s true that in most seats in 2014, a slightly larger proportion of NZF Party-Voters gave their Candidate-vote to the Cons. But the fact that (relative to NZF) National received more than 5X the Party-Vote in most seats meant that, in sheer raw numbers, more Nats than NZFers voted for the Cons candidate. In General Electorates as a whole, 25,000 Nats Candidate-Voted Conservative in 2014 compared to 8,000 NZF supporters. In Northland, 312 Nats / 242 NZFers cast their Candidate-Vote</I for the Cons.

     Obviously, there are a few caveats involved. Chief among them, the fact that Winnie himself is standing rather than just any old nondescript NZF candidate. And we, of course, can't be entirely sure that those Cons who gave two ticks to their party/candidate in 2014 are precisely the same manner of beast as those who split their Candidate-vote in favour of the Nats. There’s also the question of turnout among previous Con voters.

     But, overall, (in the absence of definitive proof) I’d say this move by Colin Craig will put a wider smile on John Key’s face than on Winston Peters’, Willow Prime’s or Andrew Little’s.
     • lprent 4.2.1

       2 March 2015 at 7:31 pm

       Yeah.
     • Skinny 4.2.2

       2 March 2015 at 8:55 pm

       Yeah that’s a fair cop and a very good breakdown, and thanks for the crunching ( makes me wonder if your an accountant) however depending on what’s squeaked or possibly roared out during the campaign, as to how the holier than thou religious vote. The tarred by association factor, just thinking back to the Christian heritage party’s dramatic voter fall away. Got any numbers on that one?
5. vto 5

   2 March 2015 at 8:42 am

   Politicians really really make me angry quite often…. most always for their blatant lies

   Now we have Tony Abbot speaking as if the fucking Aussies have been bombing the middle east to death alongside the warmongering US for 14 years in order to defend attacks on their home turf.

   So lets get this straight – the Aussies have been attacked in response to their own unilateral bombings in the middle east, and not vice versa.

   Fuck the lying politicians.
   • Rosie 5.1

     2 March 2015 at 9:44 am

     +1 veets
6. Rosie 6

   2 March 2015 at 9:55 am

   Thanks to those of you who’ve posted Tourette’s song/freestyle “John Key’s son’s a DJ” from the Splore festival.

   It’s getting airplay on Radio Active this morning, not surprising as they’ve played every anti Key song there is except @peace’s “kill the PM”. They got banned from playing Darren Watson’s “Planet Key” but that doesn’t stop them from talking about the state of our country under Key and playing political songs.

   Onya Active.

   Here’s the studio version of John Key’s son’s a DJ

   http://tourettesone.bandcamp.com/track/john-keys-sons-a-dj

   Oh and a word of warning. Don’t do what I did out of curiosity and go and listen to Troskey. You’ll burn your ears. It’s formulaic BS.
   • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1

     2 March 2015 at 10:45 am

     The cynicism reminds me of old ‘communist’ ‘jokes’ – the sort of humour that develops when people don’t have a stake in their own country.

     You’d’ve thought wingnuts would have cottoned on to that, considering they spent most of last century whining about it.
     • Rosie 6.1.1

       2 March 2015 at 11:06 am

       Eh? You mean the cynicism in the lyrics? I didn’t hear cynicism, maybe I’m just too hardened, or too familiar with this style. Good that different folks take different things from music. Always good to have a fresh pair of ears for analysis.

       And in regard to wingnuts, are you referring them always banging on about the Left not having a sense of humour, or as I would see it a different sense of humour (eg not reliant upon misogyny or racism)?
       • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1.1.1

         2 March 2015 at 11:11 am

         “John Key’s son’s a DJ.”

         “The rise of the short poppy.”

         “Let them eat instant noodles”.

         “Cameron Slater’s a journalist”.

         etc. etc.

         The wingnuts have failed to learn the lessons they were so busy pointing out for the last hundred years,
7. Pasupial 7

   2 March 2015 at 10:23 am

   A Zambian magistrate will decide the future of a case in which the country’s top prosecutor said he would not be pursuing a case against himself and declared himself a free man.

   “I am the director of public prosecution of the republic of Zambia and I have decided to enter a nolle prosequi against all the charges,” Mutembo Nchito told the magistrate from the dock last week, using the Latin term for refusing to pursue a case…

   Nchito was briefly arrested last week on nine charges, including abusing his authority, contempt of court and fraudulent contracting of debt. The offences were allegedly committed between 2008 and 2013.

   http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/01/zambian-court-decide-prosecutor-drop-case-against-himself

   ?!
   • McFlock 7.1

     2 March 2015 at 1:13 pm

     that seems to be a bit of a structural oversight, although I suspect that as a former british-occupied territory someone might be bringing up the magna carta.
8. Clemgeopin 8

   2 March 2015 at 10:40 am

   This cartoon symbolises the attitudes of the rich bastards against the “Under Class”.
   http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/20159/cartoo1.jpg
   • greywarshark 8.1

     2 March 2015 at 12:15 pm

     Which may then lead to this from Monty Python “Look I’ve found some lovely filth here” and lots of circular arguments about process. An oldie but still got lots of wear left in it.
     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0
     • Clemgeopin 8.1.1

       2 March 2015 at 4:21 pm

       Thanks1 I enjoyed that and found its transcript.

       Just substitute King Key for King Arthur and make appropriate changes including in the cast, Winston, Little, Joyce, English, etc..to see what is really happening in various overt and covert ways, to the common people, the workers and what Key terms the “underclass” from the rich “upper class” corporate lackeys.

       http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_scripts/peasant.php
9. Colonial Rawshark 9

   2 March 2015 at 11:26 am

   So, Stuart Nash raised $99,000 in political donations last year. Well done, that shows true prowess.
   • Pascals bookie 9.1

     2 March 2015 at 11:34 am

     36K of it from the guys that commissioned a Lusk report on the viability of Nash setting up a spolier party, so yeah. Golf clap.
   • phillip ure 9.2

     2 March 2015 at 11:39 am

     no..it shows he is supported by rightwing-trouts.

     (one of them even bought his fucken fire-engine for him..!..f.f.s..!)

     ..and williams was all praising of him for ‘winning’..

     ..failing to note the key fact that nash only won that seat because that idiot/clown from sensible-sentencing split the rightwing vote for him..

     ..had that not happened..

     ..nash wd still be forlornly tootling around napier in that fire-engine..

     ..don’t give him credit – where none is fucken due..

     ..nash is a tool of the rightwing..

     ..supported by the likes of slater..

     ..he is their stalking horse/best hope for labour to stay neo-liberal…

     ..and a major supporter of those labour ’14 election-policies –

     – of drill/mine/fuck-the-poor!…

     ..he is a very large part of labours neo-liberal ‘problem’..
     • Karen 9.2.1

       2 March 2015 at 12:03 pm

       +1 Phillip
     • phillip ure 9.2.2

       2 March 2015 at 12:15 pm

       and let’s not forget this piece of hate-preaching/madness from that fucken clown mcvicar..

       “..He stated that crime would increase if gays were allowed to marry..”

       ..(how did that work out..?..vile hate-merchant that he is..)

       (oh..!..and mcvicar resigned from the conservative party after his successful vote-split in napier..

       ..leaving the strong suspicion the whole thing was a set-up by the right..

       ..to help nash win the seat..

       ..nash is a fucken tory stalking/trojan-horse..!

       ..get that into yr heads..!
   • Colonial Rawshark 9.3

     2 March 2015 at 11:54 am

     Thought you guys might have missed this piece of news, that’s all 🙂
     • phillip ure 9.3.1

       2 March 2015 at 12:04 pm

       yes..but the devil is in the detail..isn’t it..?

       ..and pushing a bullshit idea that nash is a hardworking/gun fundraiser..

       ..when in fact that money came from his rich rightwing-backers..

       ..just advances the cause of the neo-liberal/rightwing who have so successfully colonised labour..

       ..i thought you were anti-them..?
       • Colonial Rawshark 9.3.1.1

         2 March 2015 at 1:06 pm

         Just making sure the right people had seen this piece of news 😈
   • Murray Rawshark 9.4

     2 March 2015 at 4:24 pm

     Yes CR, it does. I thank you for bringing this to our attention.
10. greywarshark 10

    2 March 2015 at 11:59 am

    Government is again killing off NZ small business instead of encouraging it. Minimum Social Development is going to a single provider of whiteware in Northland. this cuts out business from small retailers who provide a small core of commerce there and provide jobs, distribution of some money in the area, and keep some investment money bubbling there.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503402&objectid=11406892

    [The Kaikohe Business Association:] The association says it is inconceivable that a government department should be allowed to operate in direct competition with retail businesses that not only pay tax but were effectively paying the wages of their opposition.
    Beneficiaries who applied to the MSD for loans to purchase whiteware were forced to purchase their appliance through the ministry, which passed the goods on to the buyer at cost.
    • Visubversaviper 10.1

      2 March 2015 at 12:18 pm

      And I hate to think what sort of shoddy crap the Govt supplied whiteware is. My friend in a HNZ place was supplied with a heater/fan arrangement when HNZ responded to her request to fix the drafty chimney. They blocked the chimney and installed an electric combined heater/fan/cooler appliance which costs an absolute fortune to run. After the first bill, it has never been turned on since and my friend is back to the old gas bottle heater.
      • greywarshark 10.1.1

        2 March 2015 at 6:14 pm

        @
        The problem for bennies is not solved by not matching any household appliance to the beneficiaries needs. It makes no difference how good it is, how well made, how energy saving. If it can’t be afforded, then it can’t be used.

        In this case it is the business people griping. It may seem that they are well off but they are actually very small businesses, often one man, partnership, or family and haven’t got much slack these days in depressed economic areas.

        There is not much help for people suffering from electricity heating costs it seems. The metered properties with these Smart meters don’t sound as if they are getting much benefit! I think the meter automatically charges them at the highest electricity price so they are being punished for having them.

        For heating I’ve got a clean pellet burner. It is a well devised machine that needs to be carefully cleaned to operate well, and the pellets burn in a controlled system, but still far too fast. So sometimes I use my fan operated elderly large electric bar heater. It is straightforward and doesn’t need its vent holes cleaned and it keeps going, while the pellets can lock and the burner turns off. Also it doesn’t go in high winds and if the electricity goes off, it does to because it runs off mains power. So good idea but lacking. One day I’ll enquire and see if they have invented a battery clip-on, as there are some that are battery operated. Now that would be a forward looking development.

        Enough of my experiences with energy saving, smokeless heaters adopted under the stringent rules set by Labour. I can’t even burn string or paper rubbish so it goes to the dump if I can’t reuse it or give it away.
    • Hateatea 10.2

      2 March 2015 at 9:09 pm

      According to the very helpful person at the local WINZ office, the reason for the change of policy is to ensure (a) quality appliances are bought (b) beneficiaries don’t contract to pay private suppliers more than they can really afford with some of the shonky merchants who exploit those with poor credit history. Repayment spread over 100 weeks (I believe) deducted before benefit is paid out.

      The reality is that appliances do wear out, no matter your financial status and those elderly, ill, care giving or jobseeking are in no position to incur high levels of indebtedness to payday lenders and pay as you use agencies.

      Those local businesses probably got very little business from MSD clients as the Red Shed is far more likely to have given the more competitive quote.

      By the way, I believe that F & P are the preferred whiteware brand.

      (I stand to be corrected but this information was from the source)
      • greywarshark 10.2.1

        3 March 2015 at 1:16 pm

        F&P is my unpreferred whiteware brand. Along with all their other brands they either import or seem to co-produce.

        There is no reason that a bennie who isn’t too ill or old to walk and talk can’t get quotes for models from two or three different stores one of which then gets the Minse okay if it can be supplied and installed and old one taken away within one week or so. That could be ascertained over the phone from their office, and the deal set up.
        Then other retailers get a chance, the money gets spread better and the bennie can’t be taken to the cleaners for their new washing machine or such.

        Not difficult. It just takes an effort of will that Minse will be a good social actor in the community.
11. Colonial Rawshark 11

    2 March 2015 at 12:14 pm

    Sixty British women and girls have left the UK to join ISIS

    Seems like our much vaunted FVEY mass surveillance system isn’t any good at stopping school children looking to become terrorist supporters. It’s only good at targetting people AFTER authorities have discovered that they are a problem.

    Must be time to give the security intelligence industrial complex more millions and more unregulated powers so they can successfully stop school kids.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/01/london-schoolgirls-60-female-britons-joined-isis
    • Bill 11.1

      2 March 2015 at 4:37 pm

      Aw, c’mon CV, give the poor guys a break! How many school girls you seen sporting terrorist beards?
12. Philip Ferguson 12

    2 March 2015 at 12:22 pm

    It’s often pointed out that Islamic State is a barbaric organisation trying to establish medieval-type social control. It is also, however, a repository of the dispossessed, the marginalised, the fanatical, the extreme, and, yes, the evil. ISIS is not the main source of barbarism, brutality and evil in the region, however.

    Beside the barbarism, brutality and evil of US imperialism ISIS are rank amateurs. And while we recoil in horror at their public beheadings this is a common form of execution by the state in Saudi Arabia, one of Washington’s chief allies in the world. John Key may mouth outrage at ISIS beheadings, but a mere few weeks ago he asked for NZ flags to be lowered as a mark of respect following the death of the Saudi dictator, “King” Abdullah, the man who presided over public beheadings and floggings by the state throughout his reign (as does his successor now).

    The Washington-led intervention is about. . .

    full article at: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/02/27/no-to-all-western-military-intervention-in-the-middle-east/
    • Colonial Rawshark 12.1

      2 March 2015 at 1:09 pm

      ISIS can control a territory of 8M people (some of whom are veterans of the war with Iraq and also with the USA) with a bare 20,000 to 30,000 men because those people consider ISIS a reasonable bet compared to the corrupt, incompetent authorities in Baghdad.

      In other words, this has all the makings of an Iraqi civil war.
      • te reo putake 12.1.1

        2 March 2015 at 1:26 pm

        Got a cite for that population figure, CV? And how do you know what they “consider”?
        • joe90 12.1.1.1

          2 March 2015 at 4:41 pm

          Estimated number of fighters/population.

          http://warontherocks.com/2015/02/how-many-fighters-does-the-islamic-state-really-have/?singlepage=1
          • te reo putake 12.1.1.1.1

            2 March 2015 at 4:50 pm

            Cheers, Joe90. That gives a decent perspective. I tried looking myself, but couldn’t find anything definitive. Really hard to know what population remains in the affected areas and what percentage are under direct control.
            • joe90 12.1.1.1.1.1

              2 March 2015 at 4:57 pm

              Following these blokes too in an effort to sort the wheat from the chaff.

              http://grahamefuller.com/blog/

              http://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/author/7e9d647f-91f8-4574-844b-e75354d59915
        • Colonial Rawshark 12.1.1.2

          2 March 2015 at 5:01 pm

          Got a cite for that population figure, CV? And how do you know what they “consider”?

          Gee I hope you didn’t just support a troop deployment whilst having no idea of the enemy numbers, disposition and territory held. I did, and that’s why I declined to support the troop deployment.

          Thanks for the links joe90.
          • te reo putake 12.1.1.2.1

            2 March 2015 at 5:15 pm

            Ha! Who says I didn’t know?

            You posted a figure about the Iraqi population under ISIS control and I was just trying to verify whether it was accurate or not. Not, as it turns out. But, of course, you can also link to where you got the figure from and we can compare and contrast.
        • Colonial Rawshark 12.1.1.3

          2 March 2015 at 5:05 pm

          And how do you know what they “consider”?

          I know because it’s bloody obvious. It’s degenerating into a civil war, and you can’t hold hundreds of thousands of square kilometres with that large a population, with so few troops, without most of that population either actively or tacitly supporting you.

          Remember that territory is full of ex-Iraqi army soldiers and officers, veterans of campaigns against Iran and the USA. If they wanted to take partisan action against the rag tag lightly armed rabble that is ISIS and throw them out, that could very easily be done.
          • te reo putake 12.1.1.3.1

            2 March 2015 at 5:19 pm

            Sweet, it’s bloody obvious to you. Well, that’s all the facts I need, folks, lets call the whole thing off. I’m surprised anybody is fighting ISIS with overwhelming empirical evidence like that to call on. 🙄
            • Colonial Rawshark 12.1.1.3.1.1

              2 March 2015 at 6:01 pm

              Or put it another way: best estimates is that ISIS has 20,000 to 30,000 fighters.

              The Iraqi army is 300,000 men plus Sh’ite militia (50,000 or more). Jordan has an army of 90,000. Turkey, a NATO member has an army of 315,000. Iran’s army is so large, it could deploy 10 divisions into Iraq and not blink.

              That plus US airstrikes, intel, satellite recon, and still they need little ol’ NZ and its 143 or so soldiers over there?

              Of course, the most likely reason that ISIS is not being beaten is that it’s not just a ragtag militia of up to 30,000 lightly armed troops, but a de facto rebellion, highly funded and organised, in the north of Iraq against Baghdad.
          • joe90 12.1.1.3.2

            2 March 2015 at 5:29 pm

            >If they wanted to take partisan action against the rag tag lightly armed rabble that is ISIS and throw them out, that could very easily be done.

            Nah, the veterans of campaigns against Iran and the USA are remnants of the culture bound top to bottom losing armies of the past while the rag tag bunch are a new breed – devolved decision-making by western trained commanders and veteran insurgents with a western approach to problem solving making for a fleet footed nimble force who by the day are becoming more effective while heavier and heavier weapons arrive as we speak.
            • Colonial Rawshark 12.1.1.3.2.1

              2 March 2015 at 6:08 pm

              I understand what you mean but those same ex-Iraqi soldiers/Sunni militia you speak of also managed to kill approx 4000 US servicemen over 10 years, from memory. So not entirely ineffective, are they.

              Basically I think you understand my point. That ISIS have plenty of grassroots on the ground sympathy in the Sunni areas of Iraq that they hold.
    • greywarshark 12.2

      2 March 2015 at 6:22 pm

      This is wikipedia on executions and beheadings and they are usually reliable.

      Beheading
      A public beheading will typically take place around 9am. The convicted person is walked into the square and kneels in front of the executioner. The executioner uses a sword known as a sulthan to remove the condemned person’s head from his or her body at the neck. Sometimes it may take several strikes before victim is decapitated.[7] After the criminal is pronounced dead, a loudspeaker announces the crimes committed by the beheaded alleged criminal and the process is complete.
      This is the most common method of execution in Saudi Arabia because it is specifically called for by Sharia Law.[8] Professional executioners behead as many as ten people in a single day.[8] The severed head is usually sewn back on,[9] and sometimes put on crucifixes for public display. In 2011, an Indonesian maid’s dead body was hung from a helicopter for display.[8]…

      Of the 6,221 executions known to have taken place around the world from 2007-2012 (excluding China), 423 (6.8%) were carried out in Saudi Arabia.[1]
      The government does not release figures on executions in the Kingdom[2] but human rights organisations keep tab.
      

      Another heading – this time referring to USA executions.
      America – the land of the not so free? | Interesting Facts!
      http://www.interestingfactss.com › All Facts › Interesting Facts
      Since 1976, 1,348 individuals have been executed for their crimes in the USA with 220 of this figure being between the years of 2007 – 20012. The most …
      • greywarshark 12.2.1

        2 March 2015 at 6:35 pm

        Further
        http://www.interestingfactss.com/america-land-free/
        This site says that there are more people in jail in the USA than in Russia – using the same measurement method.
13. greywarshark 13

    2 March 2015 at 1:25 pm

    Credit Union NZCU Baywide had a disagreement with an ex-employee who put f.ck you with the company’s initials iced on a cake. And they went ballistic. Just as well I can manage to cope with the word fuck as young schoolboys passing by my place may use it at every third word, and if I objected would probably say it to me too.

    It would be rather annoying to hear about for the credit union. But they pressured a young employee to show them the image of the cake which was only sent to particular Facebook Friends under privacy. Unbelievable behaviour which got worse as they continued in a very unprofessional and unprincipled way.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/267496/record-damages-in-facebook-cake-ruling
    • Colonial Rawshark 13.1

      2 March 2015 at 2:33 pm

      These outfits think that they own their employees. Push back is a bitch, eh corporates.
14. Penny Bright 14

    2 March 2015 at 2:27 pm

    Ok folks!

    Horrified at the thought of a Wellington ‘Supercity’?

    You still have time to have your say on the Draft Wellington Reorganisation (Supercity) Proposal!

    Your submission needs to be in by 4pm TODAY, 2 March 2015!

    Email your submission to:

    submissions@lgc.govt.nz

    Include:

    Your NAME:

    Your ADDRESS:

    If you want to be HEARD in person by the Local Government Commissioners in support of your submission:

    Your PHONE NUMBER: (So you can be contacted to arrange a time to speak to the Local Government Commissioners, if you want to be heard.

    Your SUBMISSION:

    It can be as simple as:

    I do NOT support the Draft Wellington Reorganisation Proposal.

    Add whatever reasons you want…..

    eg: There has never been a full, proper, independent audit of the Auckland ‘Supercity’ (forced) amalgamation, for ‘cost-effectiveness’ for the majority of citizen and ratepayers.

    YOU CAN MAKE A SUBMISSION FROM OUTSIDE THE GREATER WELLINGTON REGION!

    Aucklanders – SEIZE THE MOMENT!

    I have seen and heard for myself – the blatant LIES that are being told about the Auckland ‘Supercity’.

    eg: That the reason for large rate increases in Auckland are the shift from ‘land value’ to ‘capital value’.

    eg: That Auckland Council ‘Local Boards’ have brought ‘local democracy’ to citizens and ratepayers.

    Here is YOUR chance to TELL THE TRUTH about YOUR experience of this Auckland ‘Supercity’!

    Use it – or lose it.

    Kind regards

    Penny Bright

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
15. Gosman 15

    2 March 2015 at 4:02 pm

    I find the thinking behind this article both fascinating and truly disturbing. In particular the solutions offered to the problem caused by the government of Venezuela massively subsidising the price of petrol.

    “In order to eliminate the enormous state expense of the subsidy on gasoline, without affecting the popular classes, it is necessary for the state to control all heavy freight and long-haul transport, making them the distributors of goods and services across the country.

    However, this would not be enough, because even if the state were able to offer distributing and transport services to the bourgeoisie at much lower prices than third-party companies do at present, the bourgeoisie would undoubtedly use the change as an excuse to artificially raise prices across the board. This makes it necessary to complete the socialist revolution, taking radical measures such as:

    The nationalization of the levers that control the economy, which at this time is in the hands of the parasitic bourgeoisie, made up of: big industry and national monopolies, latifundios and private banks. It must be placed under the democratic control of the working people, the Socialist Workers’ and Farmworkers’ Councils, in combination with the other organs of peoples’ power, including Communal Councils, and communes, etc

    The nationalization of all centers of distribution and the supply chain of food items and other basic items, including supermarket and pharmacy chains, to be under the democratic control of workers, also under the Socialist Workers’ Council. In this way, the state would be in charge of selling primary food and medicine, ridding the country of hoarding, forced scarcity, and speculation induced by the bourgeoisie.”

    http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11220

    I’m curious how many leftists here actually support this view. I suspect someone like Draco T Bastard probably would but how about more moderate leftists?
    • McFlock 15.1

      2 March 2015 at 4:27 pm

      Not entirely sure that venezuala’s my cup of tea, but I have no problem with infrastructure being nationalised on a case-by-case basis. Although even in Venezuela I’d probably go rail to undercut long-haul truckers rather than nationalising trucking companies as such.
      • Gosman 15.1.1

        2 March 2015 at 4:39 pm

        Except it isn’t just one small aspect of the economy that would come under the control of the State but the vast majority of it including ALL heavy freight and long haul distribution businesses plus all big businesses. If you are comfortable with that then you should not have any problem with understanding why people on the right are so opposed to left wing economics.
        • McFlock 15.1.1.1

          2 March 2015 at 5:01 pm

          The right are opposed to left wing economics because the right are happy to leave companies to self-regulate and thereby kill workers.

          Personally, I reckon NZ should bring back the hundred mile limit for heavy goods vehicles. And cabotage. And sort out the slavery on NZ chartered fishing vessels. And make company directors personally liable for workplace deaths via corporate manslaughter charges. And eliminate zero-hour contracts. And increase the burden on directors to ensure the truth of reports they sign off on. And have a memorial at every workplace for every worker who died on site, including during construction. And make companies more liable for subcontractors’ safety, including fatigue and avenues to/from the workplace. And ban freeloading non-members from collective contracts. And get rid of fire at will legislation. And have a living minimum wage.

          That lot gets opposition from tories, but most of them simply support a worker’s right to life.
          • Gosman 15.1.1.1.1

            2 March 2015 at 5:21 pm

            The question is why you wouldn’t support policies as proposed in that article on Venezuela. The article makes clear that the sort of policies you mention are just making accomodation with the property owning classes which does not work. Do you disagree with this and if so why?
            • McFlock 15.1.1.1.1.1

              2 March 2015 at 5:29 pm

              The answer is that I don’t have a particular ideological problem with the proposed policies, but given that I look at these things on a case by case basis I do not have enough information about the Venezualan economy to firmly commit either way.

              But my second response was more to the fact that the specific policies in Venezuala are irrelevant, because the right are vehemently opposed to any policy that puts worker or public welfare ahead of their ability to extract the maximum possible buck from the country.

              So bringing up relatively extreme left wing policies and then touting that as to “why people on the right are so opposed to left wing economics” is a camouflage of tory greed, because tories are equally opposed to much more moderate policies, too.
          • gsays 15.1.1.1.2

            2 March 2015 at 7:49 pm

            hi mcflock,
            “Personally, I reckon NZ should bring back the hundred mile limit for heavy goods vehicles.”
            couldnt agree more.

            this is one of my hobby horses.
            we have a big electric railway running up most of the centre (sorry northland) of this skinny land. ideal for moving loads.

            i can handle waiting an extra day for something to travel the country.

            get these trucks off my roads.
            • McFlock 15.1.1.1.2.1

              2 March 2015 at 8:03 pm

              it’s more efficient, safer for other road users, and adds diversity to the transport infrastructure. Can’t be a bad thing.
              • Molly …

                2 March 2015 at 8:54 pm

                Also, reduces the maintenance costs to the road. Those super trucks greatly increase the wear and tear.
            • ropata:rorschach 15.1.1.1.2.2

              2 March 2015 at 10:59 pm

              There was some rail up in Northland but most of it’s not used any more 🙁
              • McFlock …

                2 March 2015 at 11:09 pm

                Yeah. When it was privatised many of the branch lines were ripped up or abandoned. Central Otago is another.

                Fucking stupid.
                • ropata:rorschach …

                  2 March 2015 at 11:21 pm

                  Especially since the roads up north are getting washed out by torrential rain and floods a few times a year! It would be awesome to catch a fast train straight through to Whangarei and Kerikeri without the risk of death one currently faces going through the Dome Valley and the Brynderwyns (boy racers & middle aged maniacs are common)
        • tricledrown 15.1.1.2

          2 March 2015 at 5:42 pm

          It seems right whingers like socialist policies even more with the European Central Bank printing $1.8 trillion in a new quantative easing program.
          Gosman taking one economy and taring all socialist economies with the same brush makes you out to be foolish.
          And completely destroys you argument.
          You are talking about Venezuela it has a very long history of despotic leader’s
          Mainly right wing murderous fascists.
          Putin is a freemarketeer.
          But he is a despot fascist.
          For every left wing despot leader their are 10 right wing fascists.
          Neither are good for their country.
          So the likes of Singapore.
          Is an example.
          That works but its not perfect.
          • Molly 15.1.1.2.1

            3 March 2015 at 8:26 am

            Venezuelanalysis – the website Gosman likes to selectively quote from, has this poll out yesterday:

            “According to a new poll released by International Consulting Services (ICS), approximately 57% of Venezuelans have confidence that the Venezuelan government of President Nicolas Maduro will improve the economy.

            The poll also featured several results which suggest that Chavismo continues to be the preferred political option for the country’s citizens.

            In the midst of an economic crisis triggered by crashing oil prices and economic war in which basic goods remain scarce, only one fourth of Venezuelans regard scarcities as the country’s biggest problem. This finding contradicts the image of widespread hunger and desperation among Venezuelans projected by the international media.

            Moreover, in the face of an inflation rate fast approaching 70%, only 1 in 10 Venezuelans consider inflation as the nation’s principal issue. Rather, insecurity, a perennial problem in Venezuela, remains the top concern for half of the country’s citizens.

            The study also contained some unexpected findings regarding upcoming parliamentary elections. Contrary to international predictions of a landslide victory for the opposition, 43.6% of Venezuelans said they would vote for the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) and its allied parties if elections were held today.

            This figure means that even in the midst of acute economic difficulties, the PSUV retains a strong lead over the opposition, which was the preference of less than 32% of poll respondents.

            Additionally, the poll found that on the eve of the second anniversary of the death of Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías, around 62% of Venezuelans consider themselves chavistas, or “partisans… of the ideals” of the late Venezuelan leader. This result attests to the ongoing majoritarian popularity of the Bolivarian project initiated by Chávez, even despite his physical absence.

            Furthermore, in the area of human rights, the survey discovered that 80% of Venezuelans believe that respect for human rights is guaranteed in the Bolivarian republic. This figure stands at odds with statements by the U.S. government and international media, regarding alleged “human rights violations” committed by the government of Nicolas Maduro. “

            Despite all the concern some of the RWNJs have shown over toilet paper and condoms, it seems the Venezuelans themselves are still Chavistas.
            • The lost sheep 15.1.1.2.1.1

              3 March 2015 at 8:40 am

              Venezuelaanalysis.com has previously received funding from the Venezuelan Government through the Ministry of Culture. It also has had a linkage to the Tele Sur media outlet, funded by the Venezuelan Government.

              By the standards you have set in previous posts Molly, this would disqualify it as a credible source of information?
              • The lost sheep …

                3 March 2015 at 10:14 am

                So who are ‘International Consulting Services’. A well known, credible and independent source of polling information?

                Well, I can’t verify that unfortunately, because there doesn’t seem to be very much information out there about them at all outside of their own website. Started late 2013. No offices it seems. No specific personal listed. Only work they seem to have done is 6 polls on Venezuelan voters preferences. No methodology or references listed for those polls.
                By now I’m not surprised to find the polls all paint a rosy picture of support for the Government.
                Other purpose of site seems to be to provide news about Venezuela that has a striking similarity to the ‘official’ news off the Govt. Tele Sur media.

                Yeah right. That’s all credible then!

                Here’s some info. I found from a media outlet calling themselves “The Independent’. Haven’t got time to research them Molly, but they say bad things about the Venezuelan situation and Government, so no doubt they are a RW propaganda site funded by the U.S. government.sarc.

                http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/corruption-falling-oil-prices-and-talk-of-a-coup-the-end-of-chavezs-socialist-dream-in-venezuela-10060576.html
                • One Anonymous Bloke …

                  3 March 2015 at 10:22 am

                  Why are right wingers obsessed by Venezuela? Is it because they can’t manage substantive criticism of Scandinavia?

                  Or just that they’re keeping very, very quiet about Honduras?
                  • The lost sheep …

                    3 March 2015 at 1:57 pm

                    Personally, I only mentioned Venezuela because Morrisey kept posting articles about it.

                    Governments suppressing human rights and freedoms and committing violence against citizens concerns me where ever it occurs.
                    If the Scandinavian countries start acting that way I’ll be the first here to start pointing the finger.

                    But in the meantime it is the Venezuelan Government that is following the route towards removal of freedoms and human rights, and ultimately the violent suppression of opposition from Venezuelan citizens.

                    I would love to have events prove me wrong on that, but I predict that when if and that end game comes, some posters here will be acting as apologists for that suppression.
                    • One Anonymous Bloke …

                      3 March 2015 at 2:09 pm

                      You mean like the way you act as an apologist for the Party that destroyed collective bargaining and enabled Mike Sabin?

                      PS: Honduras.
                    • The lost sheep …

                      3 March 2015 at 2:56 pm

                      No. Don’t mean that at all OAB, and I’m not biting on any of your red herrings.
              • Molly …

                3 March 2015 at 7:11 pm

                Lost sheep, I mixed you up with Gosman. You both put forward similar arguments, and don’t listen very often to considered responses. I apologise for that.

                I don’t apologise for using your own link on a previous comment to point out a contradiction in your assertions.

                (BTW: I searched a few of the authors on Venezuela analysis and found out quite a lot. Are you sure you know how to use Google effectively?)

                And I thought you were interested in debating content. Not playing he said, she said. That said 😉 , are you going to discuss any of the points in the article or are we just going to play commenter tag?

                Do you think the article’s (asserted) fact that most Venezuelans are still Chavistas, has something to do with the fact that there was a concerted effort to ensure that all Venezuelans had access to – and are aware of – their rights under the constitution?

                Or do you think it is the intent and implementation of the Bolivarian missions that keeps the poor optimistic that they can ride out the difficulties?

                (PS. Do you read the links to the governments response to your noble concerns regarding toilet paper and condoms?)
        • tricledrown 15.1.1.3

          2 March 2015 at 5:42 pm

          It seems right whingers like socialist policies even more with the European Central Bank printing $1.8 trillion in a new quantative easing program.
          Gosman taking one economy and taring all socialist economies with the same brush makes you out to be foolish.
          And completely destroys you argument.
          You are talking about Venezuela it has a very long history of despotic leader’s
          Mainly right wing murderous fascists.
          Putin is a freemarketeer.
          But he is a despot fascist.
          For every left wing despot leader their are 10 right wing fascists.
          Neither are good for their country.
          So the likes of Singapore.
          Is an example.
          That works but its not perfect.
    • Murray Rawshark 15.2

      2 March 2015 at 4:32 pm

      At the moment Brazilian owners of transport companies are busy with the first stages of a coup. Their inspiration seems to be Pinochet. I think all businesses taking part should be nationalised without compensation. The other things you mention will be necessary shortly as well.
      • Gosman 15.2.1

        2 March 2015 at 4:42 pm

        Thanks for being so open in your support to policies that I find so abhorent. You are at least not trying to hide your true motivation behind the cloak of moderation.

        I do find it funny in a tragic kind of way that left wing ‘solutions’ to problems caused by other leftist policies are so brutal and damaging to individual rights.
        • Murray Rawshark 15.2.1.1

          2 March 2015 at 6:41 pm

          Thanks for supporting a nascent military coup which would take rights away from almost everyone, up to and including the right to life. My true motivation in the case I mentioned is to support democracy. If that can’t be done moderately, so be it.
16. Skinny 16

    2 March 2015 at 4:34 pm

    “The nationalization of all centers of distribution and the supply chain of food items and other basic items, including supermarket and pharmacy chains, to be under the democratic control of workers, also under the Socialist Workers’ Council.”

    Why yes I would be all for this Gosman, we would be able to pay a living wage and give our state workers and politicians a higher annual payrise, certainly above the 1.6 % mark our dictator Comandante Key has/is imposing.
    • phillip ure 16.1

      2 March 2015 at 4:43 pm

      many times plus one…
    • Gosman 16.2

      2 March 2015 at 4:46 pm

      Again thanks for the honest answer. It confirms in my mind why it is vital to oppose left wing politics. Not to do so risks great harm being done to society.
      • Murray Rawshark 16.2.1

        2 March 2015 at 5:04 pm

        Maggie told you there was no such thing as society. Bad disciple!
        • phillip ure 16.2.1.1

          2 March 2015 at 5:11 pm

          heh..!
        • Gosman 16.2.1.2

          2 March 2015 at 5:18 pm

          Unlike many leftists I don’t blindly follow what adherents of my political philosophy come out with.
          • greywarshark 16.2.1.2.1

            2 March 2015 at 6:41 pm

            Can someone point me or give me a link to where somewhere in past comments Gosman espoused his version of what being left is for him? I am sure that someone bookmarked such a delightfully ironic piece of resistance.
            • Murray Rawshark 16.2.1.2.1.1

              2 March 2015 at 6:50 pm

              I don’t think he means he is a lefty. He just has a problem constructing non-ambiguous sentences.
      • Skinny 16.2.2

        2 March 2015 at 5:38 pm

        You need a holiday Gosman as your sounding like your suffering from that toxic illness ‘over exposure to Pete G syndrome’ a particularly nasty condition we all get exposed too. I suggest you come up North and I will take you fishing.

        And while your here you can do some rural door knocking, god knows the National candidate needs all the support he can get, after Joyce slapped the local farmers on the back of their red necks and rejected their local farm boy hero.

        Just bring a straw hat some chewing tobacco, and for Christ sake leave that ACT baby poo’s jacket of yours at home.
17. Gosman 17

    2 March 2015 at 5:03 pm

    A related question to the point I raised about Venezuela.

    Are leftists generally happy demonising a large section of society as being essentially traitors for simply doing what basic economic philosophy predicts they will do given the sort of conditions imposed upon them?

    If I run a business and the government imposes rules that reduce my profits significantly why am I at fault if i decide no longer supply at the level I was doing so previously? Surely I am just reacting to what the State has done in a manner that i am entitled to do just as workers should be entitled to strike if their wages or conditions are reduced.
    • McFlock 17.1

      2 March 2015 at 6:05 pm

      answer to the first question: yes, because people are moral agents, not slaves to economic philosophy

      as to the second question, you make the assumption that you’re at fault, when actually tobacco and alcohol regulation have those outcomes in mind. Do you have a more specific hypothetical?
      • Gosman 17.1.1

        3 March 2015 at 11:38 am

        The specific scenario (not hypothetical) in question relates to Venezuela blaming suppliers for causing shortages when they impose price controls on items that make it difficult to get returns from selling those items. If I forced you to sell an item at a price that you deemed to be insufficient for your requirements why would you be at fault if you stopped selling the item?
        • McFlock 17.1.1.1

          3 March 2015 at 3:43 pm

          Well, it is hypothetical because I’m not a supplier of whatever it is in venezuela you’re bitching about.

          But even so it doesn’t match the scenario you intially outlined. Say a supplier is paying 50 for transport and getting a profit of 30. Your initial comment seemed to indicate that you are already cool supplying x at a profit of 30. If your transport costs go down from 50 to 40, the problem is that you (being a tory) would pocket the extra 10 in addition to your 30 profit.

          In that case, in the simplistic environment a price control of -10 would still give you a profit of 30 (which you’re happy to supply at, remember?) and pass the savings on to consumers.

          If you as a producer was all “damn government forcing me to give up my extra 10, I’m outta here”, I’d say “don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out, I’ll do the job and keep the 30 that you were previously happy with”.
    • Colonial Rawshark 17.2

      2 March 2015 at 7:05 pm

      So to boil it down – should we blame people from acting in a toxic way when they have been immersed in a toxic environment for a long time.

      Of course not. You blame the people (sociopaths) with the power and wealth who deliberately created the toxic environment: neolibs, banksters and right wingers.
18. phillip ure 18

    2 March 2015 at 5:11 pm

    after three months fucken xmas-hols..

    ..and being back for about two weeks..

    ..parliament takes/needs another break this week…(!)

    ..w.t.f..!
19. phillip ure 19

    2 March 2015 at 5:15 pm

    and who paid stuart nash [deleted] per month ‘support’ he received in the year before being elected to parliament..?

    ..exactly who ‘owns’ him…?

    [lprent: Cite a source if you want to claim a ‘fact’ that is as potentially defamatory as that one.

    I am unaware of anything reasonably reputable that said he was paid anything on a monthly basis. A two week ban for putting this site into jeopardy for not citing a source.

    A further two weeks for making up a ‘fact’ that you can get off by pointing to a source for a monthly payment that would have been sufficient for us to allow.

    BTW: Calculations of averages won’t count by the way because you didn’t state that as a basis of calculation in your comment. FFS: that was a bloody stupid comment of the exact type that could cause US to get into legal danger. What in the hell were you thinking! ]
    • phillip ure 19.1

      2 March 2015 at 5:50 pm

      and what do they expect from him..for that ‘support’..?
    • phillip ure 19.2

      2 March 2015 at 9:17 pm

      u ask me to cite a fucken source..

      .and then u block me from posting it..?

      [lprent: Not blocked. It goes into the spam queue. I read the spam queue last in the moderation cycle. That is because I check for comments that should not have gone into it (ie false positives).

      However I notice that
      a. You didn’t post the link in any comment that you put there.
      b. Ignored why I said I banned you which was because you didn’t provide the link to substantiate a potentially defamatory fact (CV and adam did it for you).
      c. Ignored any effect it could potentially have on our site.

      So I’ll remove the 2 weeks. You now just have a two weeks ban. I will refrain from following my natural inclination to just ban you permanently as being a danger to the site and to me.

      However in view of your attitude which appear to be all about your wounded pride and not about what you actually got banned for… If I see you ever make a comment stating a potentially defamatory fact without a link again I will ban you permanently.

      If you want to state something as a fact that involves a person or company and may be viewed defamatory on the face of it, then it is your responsibility to provide the required support for what you claim is true in the comment. You will note that virtually everyone else links or sources where they heard something. There is a reason for that. They are aware that it is something that may affect the site and we intensely dislike people putting us at risk

      Moderators simply don’t have time to read everything in the newspaper or listen to the radio. We expect the person making an assertion of fact to provide enough information for us to check it out.

      So if you are going to be so irresponsible to assert a fact and not back it WHEN you make the comment, I will treat you just as I would for any arsehole trying to make me waste time and resources in court. I will do so preemptively as an example to others. If you don’t like it, then I really don’t care. I care about my time more than I care about your pride… ]
      
    • Rodel 19.3

      2 March 2015 at 10:04 pm

      Ahhh. lovely…… a month!! of no more RSI from rapid scrolling fingers Thanks
    • Colonial Rawshark 19.4

      2 March 2015 at 10:27 pm

      New Labour MP Stuart Nash was bankrolled to the tune of $4000 a month by political backers for more than a year leading up to last year’s general election…The returns showed Mr Nash received $36,000 from Caniwi Capital Partners and $31,000 from Andrew Kelly, mostly paid in monthly instalments dating from June 2013.

      thought I should do this on behalf of PU

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11410292

      [lprent: Agreed, that lets him off two weeks. However he still didn’t provide the link that is required if you want to claim a potentially defamatory fact on the site. ]
      • marty mars 19.4.1

        2 March 2015 at 11:09 pm

        onya cv
    • adam 19.5

      2 March 2015 at 10:58 pm

      Iprent – Didn’t Chris Trotter mention this on National radio this afternoon?

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/20169254/the-panel-with-amanda-millar-and-chris-trotter-part-2

      The last minute

      And was it not in the Herald?

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11410292

      Oh and for/from Phil

      http://whoar.co.nz/2015/comment-whoar-was-stuart-nash-paid-4000-per-month-support-in-the-yr-before-the-election/

      [lprent: Read my note more carefully this time. The specific fact that philu said was that Nash was receiving a stipend per month.

      He then didn’t provide a source so I can’t verify it.

      What part of definition of “defamation” do you not understand? Claiming some false fact as being true is at the heart of it, especially if it involves a clearly malicious intent. I have to pass all these types of comments through as a risk to me of legal action. I can’t do that without facts and as far as I am concerned it is up to commenters to provide the links to facts.

      If he’d used the word ‘average’ in there somewhere, it wouldn’t have been a problem. However he didn’t, no doubt for malicious reasons to make the ‘story’ seem better – which is what defamation is intended to limit.

      Now I’m sure that we will have some conspiracy nuts going on about Labour or the Greens or something (and I suspect that I can just vaguely sense Bomber preparing to be a complete pillock somewhere), however part of my task in this site is to prevent people dragging me and this site into court because they want to make a fool of themselves.

      If you want to claim a possibly defamatory fact on this site then them to the bloody source or get banned.

      I’m afraid that I really don’t like people trying to drag me into court. ]
      • adam 19.5.1

        3 March 2015 at 8:23 am

        Iprent – my point was simply to point out, whilst phil, may write odd, and it can be hard to read – I do not believe he would deliberately make your life hell – via a court case. Sloppy is my take – but in a 24 hour news cycle – with a government hell bent on dirty politics – non reflective, reactions are a reality of this process.

        It is also, and I’ll paraphrase Chris Trotter – “there is a hell of a story there!”

        And yes, I’ve very well aware of how defamation works in this country. I’m very careful how I write here, indeed my style of writing does provoke some to attack me. Because I allude, rather than name names

        To late on the conspiracy nut angle – blubber boy beat everyone. I will not link to that idiot sorry – I don’t want hits for him – but Google it. It is a sad sad piece of propaganda.

        Look – sometimes I think you need help doing this – you work long hours and have a family – and what you write sounds like a tired person. This not an attack – just, you seem stretched to the limit. I thought there was a collective running this? Should not others be standing up, and helping you out!?
        • lprent 19.5.1.1

          3 March 2015 at 8:55 am

          We all have full lives and demands on our time. Basically comments that assert facts without links or source are a waste of time for any on be reading the site. But with our very limited moderation time, ones that attack people with anything that might be viewed as a malicious intent are just a danger to us and they waste our time a lot. We have to spend time verifying them.

          If people want to comment here then they had better keep those facts in mind because my general preference would be to start booting them off site four longer periods of time.

          We get 30k-50k unique people reading the site every month. We have hundreds and sometimes a thousand commenting each month, with more bthan 10k comments. Commenters need to take responsibility for their comments if the site is to keep going.
20. A Voter 20

    2 March 2015 at 5:23 pm

    On a personal note anyone have a disastrous year last year especially if you’r poor ?
    I put it down to the fact that Keys father was born 100 yrs ago and to celebrate Key decided to make as many people who hate his guts pay the best part of their year in misery a little known but probably personal truth
    Plus the usual bullying expenses of an election as well as a fully integrated police state and a boat loads of lies ,deceit, coercion, club membership to the CIA old boys FBI pension club The Federal reserve community of tight wads ,The NY Stock exchange ,Mossad ,THe Five Eyes wave your democracy byebyes club, Tppa club not fully defined yet but after we get this Iraqi thing sorted its should be relatively easy to break it to the country by that stage they should be pretty fucked in the head and now with the ability to act as president Key will be able to take a holiday what a relief for us all. can I sabotage his plane to Hawaii no just leave it up to those hes probably pissed off more that a 100 Kiwi soldiers have become targets of.
    Why cant we have the cunt for TREASON is that reserved for Britain to make the decision
21. phillip ure 21

    2 March 2015 at 5:23 pm

    i have just noticed that maori tv is screening what looks like an excellent doco-series on world war one..

    ..episode two screens @ 9.30 2nite..

    ..and episode one is available on maori tv website..

    http://www.maoritelevision.com/tv/shows/first-world-war
22. hoom 22

    2 March 2015 at 5:44 pm

    Why are both these articles headlined ‘rude cake woman’ rather than ‘shockingly inappropriate Managers’?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/66827105/rude-cake-baker-gets-record-168k-in-damages
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11410412

    Because fundamentally the problem is the Managers here.

    Constructive dismissal of more than one staff = venting in private which has then not only been pried into by these Managers but they maliciously spread the illegally accessed info to other employees in the industry specifically to ruin her career.
    • Sookie 22.1

      2 March 2015 at 6:21 pm

      Hopefully the massive payout Cake Lady got will put off idiot managers from nosing about in staff FB pages and launching totally inappropriate vendettas. Well done Cake Lady!
      • hoom 22.1.1

        2 March 2015 at 6:33 pm

        Indeed.

        Its further evidence of NZs major problem with utterly shockingly bad Managers as reported in various surveys which show our Managers are overpaid & incompetent.

        And further evidence that our Media likes to pander to Management side of things.
        • Colonial Rawshark 22.1.1.1

          2 March 2015 at 8:02 pm

          Hmmm surely the answer must be to pay these people at the top even more

          I wonder why the NZCU board hasn’t fired all the fuckers responsible for this utter disgrace. Their members should be insisting on it.
          • Murray Rawshark 22.1.1.1.1

            2 March 2015 at 8:06 pm

            The problem is that they want to be paid as if they’re world class superstars when they’re hardly even garage band quality.
            • hoom 22.1.1.1.1.1

              3 March 2015 at 7:53 am

              Big props to RNZ reporters who did a solid job focusing on the shittyness of the Managers this morning 🙂
23. joe90 23

    2 March 2015 at 7:54 pm

    Peter Sinclair reviews Merchants of Doubt, a documentary how the climate denial industry and their shills have adopted tobacco company tactics to market doubt.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJIW5yVk__w

    edit: trailer and review

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jrF0aGqhyo

    http://variety.com/2014/film/reviews/telluride-film-review-merchants-of-doubt-1201297810/
24. joe90 24

    2 March 2015 at 9:06 pm

    Rupert’s short on liars.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/01/rebekah-brooks-rehired-rupert-murdoch-work-us-news-corp
25. joe90 25

    2 March 2015 at 9:23 pm

    Just what a struggling economy needs.
    /

    http://www.euractiv.com/sections/elections/estonia-swears-youngest-eu-prime-minister-301189

    Ideologically, the Reform Party has consistently advocated market liberalism.[11] The Reform Party is the most economically liberal in the political landscape of Estonia.

    The party supports Estonian 0% corporate tax on re-invested income and wants to eliminate the dividend tax.
    The party wanted to cut flat income tax rate from 22% (in 2007) to 18% by 2011. Due to economic crisis the campaign for cutting income tax rate was put on hold with the tax rate at 21% in 2008 and 2009.
    The party used to oppose VAT general rate increase until late spring 2009 when it changed its position in the light of dire economic crisis and the need to find more money for budget. VAT was increased from 18% to 20% on 1 July 2009.
    The party wants eventually to end conscription and introduce a voluntary army.[13]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Reform_Party#Ideology
    • Colonial Rawshark 25.1

      2 March 2015 at 9:42 pm

      The neoliberal/financial/bankster outfit have a very effective playbook that they roll out via media outlets, paid “experts”, tame academics and well funded think tanks.

      And the Left still has nothing to push back with.
    • Clemgeopin 25.2

      3 March 2015 at 12:40 am

      If a nation has armed forces, I personally prefer there is compulsory CONSCRIPTION for all youth to train and serve for a couple of years at least, rather than the voluntary system, because in the latter case it is the poor, the less privileged and the “underclass” that will “volunteer” while the rich and their well-to-do privileged kids go scot-free from serving, and the rich privileged “leaders” will have the audacity to tell every one else, except themselves and their own progeny to show “some guts”!

      How nasty, unfair and shitty is that!
26. Penny Bright 26

    2 March 2015 at 10:51 pm

    So – how committed are Labour to electorally ‘clipping the wings’ of this John Key led National Government?

    How many folks here agree that the ‘commonsense’ / electorally ‘savvy’ thing for Labour to do in the Northland by-election, is to campaign hard on the issues, but for Labour Party supporters to VOTE for Winston Peters, in order to stop National winning back this pivotal seat, and being left with 59 out of 121 MPs?

    Who is electorally the ‘main’ political ‘enemy’ here?

    ‘Unite the many to defeat the few’?

    If I was a Northland voter – I’d be voting Winston Peters.

    End of story.

    Penny Bright
    • Skinny 26.1

      2 March 2015 at 11:26 pm

      Yes and you distracted from the topic of the By-Election on Jackos show today, thought I got some traction going especially when that dude called after me trying to blurt out the Sabin issue. Anyway Jenny good effort on the proposed Wellington super city scam.
      • Clemgeopin 26.1.1

        3 March 2015 at 12:45 am

        ” Jackos show’

        What and where and when was it?

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