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Open mike 02/07/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 2nd, 2013 - 177 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

177 comments on “Open mike 02/07/2013 ”

  1. Morrissey 1

    No. 25: Margaret Thatcher

    “I confirm that there is no British government involvement of any kind in training, equipping or co-operating with Khmer Rouge forces or those allied to them.”

    —British prime minister Margaret Thatcher, official written answer to Neil Kinnock, October, 1990.

    See also….
    No.24 John Key: “…at the end of the day I, like most New Zealanders, value the role of the fourth estate…”
    No. 23 Jay Carney: “…expel Mr Snowden back to the U.S. to face justice…”

    No. 22 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton had integrity beyond reproach.”

    No. 21 Tim Groser: “I think the relationship is genuinely in outstanding form.”
No. 20 John Key: “But if the question is do we use the United States or one of our other partners to circumvent New Zealand law then the answer is categorically no.”

    No. 19 Matthew Hooton: “It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They DON’T!”
No. 18 Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”
No. 17 Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”

    No. 16 Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months.”

    No. 15 Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”

    No. 14 Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”

    No.13 Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”
No. 12 U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”

    No. 11 Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”

    No. 10 Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”

    No. 9 NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”

    No. 8 Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question….”

    No. 7 Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”


    No. 6 Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”

No. 5 Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.”

No. 4 Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”

No. 3 John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”

No. 2 Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”

No. 1 Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”

    • Jenny 2.1

      How does this fit with Liar of our time Colonial Viper’s racist dismissal of the whole Arab Spring phenomenon as a Western/US plot?

      Or indeed CV’s support for the bloody suppression of the Arab Spring in Syria by the Assad regime, in which CV claimed that the use of nerve gas wouldn’t be a war crime?

      Views all quite acceptable to be promulgated on The Standard without any censure.

      In his continuing racist attack on the legitimacy of the Arab Spring, CV’s latest outrageous claim. Is that the Syrian insurgents have “used” sarin.’ Without any substantiation at all CV claims that the rebels stole the sarin from Assad. “And used it, yes”

      I would have liked to ask Colonial Viper would he consider the use of deadly nerve gas a war crime if it was used against his hero Bashar Assad?

      • vto 2.1.1

        how would you know if chemical weapons have been used jenny?

        • Colonial Viper

          And by which side.

          However, such details are irrelevant to Jenny. Her popular uprising Arab Spring in Syria happens to be staffed by…Islamist fighters from Qatar, Turkey, Europe, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. For some reason this particular “popular uprising” needs a heck of a lot of foreign fighters and foreign firepower just to keep going. Odd that.

          Funny how she didn’t manage the “Arab Spring” in Egypt. Seems like the people think that the new Boss was exactly like the old Boss, except with an Islamic Brotherhood tinge. (Oh dear I just read that a popular uprising just burnt down their HQ.)

          Jenny, in Egypt, is it now the Arab Summer? Because they already had their “Spring” I guess it must be the next season.

      • Sanctuary 2.1.2

        Despite increasing wheat production by 350% since 1960 Egypt is now the world’s largest importer of wheat – imported wheat which it admitted recently it can no longer afford to pay for – http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-06/egypt-seen-asking-france-for-delayed-payment-for-grain-imports.html. The political implications of subsequently rising grain prices in a country where over a quarter of the population live in abject poverty is obvious, and the initial protests of the “Arab Spring” were really more bread riots than democracy riots.

        Most of the Arab spring is simply Malthusian expressions of human over-population. Egypt’s population a hundred years ago was around twelve millions. At the turn of this century, it was 63 millions. Today it stands at 83 millions, and is projected to hit 100 millions in a decade. Almost all of these people live within twenty miles of the Nile river or Nile Delta. Encouraged by religion, population growth in Egypt is out of control at over 2% pr annum and out-stripping the available resources of the largely desert state that is Egypt. You have got a seething mass of young people, that the the state cannot provide jobs or opportunities or even bread for, becoming hungry, bored, angry and agitated.

        The Arab Spring in Egypt is less a democratic upwelling than a manifestation of too many rats in a cage. It may be starting in the third world but it is a warning of what awaits us all as human numbers combined with climate change leads to a faltering ability of governments to provide even the basics for seething populations.

        • Jimmie

          Not so much to do with increasing population as much as the mis/non use of resources.

          The Egyptians have one of the biggest rivers in the world plus the two Aswan dams.

          Combining a massive fresh water resource with a hot middle eastern climate should mean that Egypt (via modern irrigation techniques) should be the bread basket of the middle east.

          For them to be importing massive amounts of grain reflects on their collective lack of leadership over the last 100 years.

          • Draco T Bastard

            And that would solve the problem that Sanctuary listed how?

            Oh, that’s right, it won’t.

            the world is over-populated by between 5 and 6 billion people. Sooner or later, especially with ACC coming, most of that population will starve to death and there’s nothing that can be done about it.

          • Sanctuary

            I would say the Egyptians have actually managed their water resources well.

            • Colonial Viper

              Coal and oil delayed the Malthusian predictions. For Egypt oil was a resource boon which enabled them to keep feeding and financing an expanding population. However, their peak oil was 15 or more years ago.

              Now its a nasty slide down the other side of the slope.

    • Jenny 2.2

      As the Egyptian military issue threats and mobilise to suppress the protests….

      Will Colonial Viper be supporting the drowning in blood of the Arab Spring in Egypt, as he has in Syria?

      • Sanctuary 2.2.1

        These countries are basket cases and they are none of our business. If religious zealots straight out of the dark ages and brutal militarists decide to massacre each other in sectarian violence, then neither side deserves our sympathy and we should leave them to their barbarian slaughter. The curse of religion is upon them, they have only got themselves to blame for getting into this sectarian mess, they can sort it out amongst themselves with their very own Thirty Years War and get back to the rest of us when some sort of sanity prevails.

        • UglyTruth

          That is an incredibly superficial view, Sanctuary.

          To paraphrase Edmonds: though the collusion with radical Islam had been going on for decades, it wasn’t until 1996 that a formal decision was made by NATO to abandon their previous secret relationship with neo-Fascists and arch-Nationalists and replace them with Islamists.


          • One Anonymous Knucklehead

            “Does this source often make similar claims?… Watch out for a pattern of fringe thinking that consistently ignores or distorts data.”

            Baloney detection 101. Again. For the nth time.

            • UglyTruth

              “Baloney detection 101”

              How about the ability to recognize for vague and unsubstantiated criticisms as simple smearing?

              • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                How about figuring out how to spot dubious claims rather than sucking them up and blowing them out like a cross between a parrot and a sponge?

                • NickS

                  They can’t help it, probably have over active agency+pattern recognition detection* issues judging from their posts and the site they linked to, combined with an inability to recognise serious incoherence in their belief structure(s). It’s mostly a learned set of behaviours though that can be unlearned, but leads to them being a royal pain in the arse at social gatherings as they blather about free-energy and freemasons to anyone and everyone who hasn’t told them to fuck off.
                  *translation – sees links where there are none or weighs what links there are to heavily and sees agency where there is none.

          • Sanctuary

            I have got no doubt that the sudden desire of the West to arm the barbarian Syrian rebels to stop their defeat at the hands of the savage Assad forces is driven purely by a wicked and cynical desire to keep the region destabilised. A fractured Syria and a fragile Lebanon and Iraq acting as hosts for a internecine religious war between Sunni and Shi’ite is is music to the ears of Whitehall and Washington – nothing like getting that oil money back in the form of weapons purchases from a Saudi Arabia petrified of Iran. I also have little doubt that a large part of the reason for the rise of religious fundamentalism in the Middle East can be sheeted home to the disgraceful policies of the United States and it’s client state Israel. That is why I suggest we should leave them alone – because at least leaving them alone will not constitute actively encouraging sectarian slaughter, which is what we are doing at the moment.

        • Populuxe1

          Yep – to assume intervention to bring down a dictator, even if the prick really deserves it, will bring about an Arab Spring, is to fall into the same well meaning fallacy that Christopher Hitchens did regarding Iraq. Of course there is a vague possibility that an educated middle class will rise to establish a democracy – but there is also a vague possibility winged monkeys will fly out of my arse. The actual result is anarchy and infighting between cliques who are more than likely as bad as each other, and even if you do suceed in creating a democracy, by and large it is the conservative theocrats who get popularly voted in. It’s a Catch 22 and best kept at arms length unless the clusterfuck is right on your border.

        • NickS

          Actually, leaving them to their own devices usually isn’t the best idea due to the knock on effects that can destabilise surrounding regions and lead unto swarms of refugees and pissed off young people. However the UN is pretty much useless for dealing with large scale civil wars due to colonialism 2.0* power plays by state actors, including the EU, so actually intervening in a zero-sum game way, in which only the fuck-monsters loose, is sadly rather fucking impossible.

          And the situation in Syria, much like Iraq and Afghanistan, is only going to create more fuck-monsters, aka fanatical young males with bad cases of anti-sociality and a score to settle with what ever out-group of the month they dislike. Causing all sorts of direct and indirect negative effects.

          Which leaves us with the utter crap, but less monstrous option of backing semi-secular and less insane muslim jihadi groups in the hope they kill off most of the fuck monsters.

          Worst case scenario for non-intervention – Israel uses it nuclear assets offensively, on mostly civilian targets, thus potentially drawing in all the external powers (US, EU, Russia and China) into a hot war. There’s others, but the shear toll in human life from each one is pretty much the same.

          *who cares about ruling when you can just force the locals into selling you every natural and human resource they own for crazy low prices?

  2. Morrissey 3

    New Zealand governments supported the Khmer Rouge from 1978 to 1990
    John Key “can’t remember” if he supported the Khmer Rouge or not

    Under the cloak of parliamentary privilege, Phil Goff and Winston Peters, who both obeyed this U.S. policy of supporting the Khmer Rouge, brutally slandered Keith Locke, who was opposed to it.

    Page 1
    New Zealand Journal of History, 33,2 (1999)
    FROM 1978-1990 [1]


    THIS ARTICLE looks at New Zealand’s policy of recognition towards Cambodia (or Kampuchea [2]) between 1978 and 1990. New Zealand policymakers had to make the difficult decision as to which political entity to recognize, if any at all, after the Vietnamese invaded and installed a puppet government in Kampuchea in 1978. The Vietnamese army’s removal of the genocidal Khmer Rouge, or Democratic Kampuchea (DK), led by Pol Pot, provoked mixed reactions from the international community. There was universal relief at Pol Pot’s removal, but the Association of South East AsianNations (ASEAN), China and the United States expressed the concern that a Soviet-sponsored Vietnam was attempting to achieve sub-regional hegemony.These nations all
    supported the anti-Vietnamese resistance forces. Controversially, New Zealand also opted to give diplomatic recognition to the ousted Khmer Rouge regime-in-exile as the legitimate representatives of the Cambodian people.

    What emerges about New Zealand foreign-policy decision-making over this issue is that it contained a great deal of ambivalence. ……

    Read the rest of this apologetic and biased, but revealing, article HERE…

  3. Morrissey 4

    Australia Post stamp issue demeans New Zealand and Palestine
    1 July 2013

    The 60-cent joint Australia Post/Israel Post stamp (one of a two-stamp commemorative issue) with its Tel el Saba inscription implies that the 1st Australian Light Horse Brigade took the Turkish hill position. In fact, an attack planned for the Australian Light Horse was being held up until the threat from the Turkish machine-guns on Tel el Saba could be eliminated. It was actually the Auckland Mounted Rifles that took the hill and a photo of them can be seen on top of Tel el Saba after its capture from the Turks. The caption explains that the “hill was the key to taking the outpost township of Beersheba – with Turko-German weaponry dug in overlooking all the approaches to the township and its trench defences, it had to be in the hands of the Anzacs before a frontal attack on the town could take place.”


    The re-writing of history to suit Israel and its Australia Post propagandists went far beyond implying that it was Australian, not New Zealand, forces that took Tel el Saba. An Australia Post website article referring to the collaboration of Israel and Australia in the stamp issue states: “The Battle of Beersheba is a significant event in the history of both countries and one of Australia’s greatest and least-known military triumphs.” The battle took place over 30 years before Israel came to establish itself in Palestine and to imply that the battle was a part of Israel’s history is a slap in the face for Palestinians whose forbears fought with ANZAC forces in Palestine. The Palestinians were led to believe that fighting for victory with the allies would help to ensure their independence when the war was over. Australia Post’s tribute to the (at the time) non-existent Israel in the fighting is absurd. As Ali Kazak has pointed out, “Jews did not fight with the Australian forces, they were merely 6.8 per cent of the population in Palestine, according to British statistics.” Instead of gaining independence with the defeat of the Turkish empire, the Palestinian people were subjected to merciless terrorism with the Palestinian residents of Beersheba being ethnically cleansed from their city by Zionist forces.

    Australia Post’s reference to the Battle of Beersheba as being a part of Israel’s history implies that the organisation regards Beersheba to be an Israeli town. If Australia Post had any respect for international law it would give due recognition to the indisputable fact that Beersheba is still a part of Palestine and that it is illegally occupied by a foreign power. Israel continues to defy international law by denying the refugees their United Nations-recognised right of return.

    Australia Post could have made a more honest stamp issue, jointly with Palestine Post, that recognised the true participants and with the Arabic language included. It is cause for alarm when a government agency (Australia Post describes itself as a ‘Government Business Enterprise’) allows itself to become involved with a foreign government in such an exercise. It is easy to understand that Israel must, of necessity, attempt to deny history in the promotion of its ideology but the Zionist state should not be allowed to subvert our democratic institutions or undermine respect for international law.

    Leslie Bravery
    Palestine Human Rights Campaign Aotearoa/New Zealand

  4. vto 5

    Christchurch City Council loses its stamp for issuing building consents and the government is set to take over. So we will now get the same treatment for consents as we do for our damaged homes – EQC, the most fucked-up delayed bullshit govt organisation ever.

    John Key gets all uppity over leak of email, electronic parliament entry and other correspondence. If you got nothing to hide John then you got nothing to fear.

    Government sets aside $80million to help irrigation schemes get underway where private business is too fearful to tread. Duh.

    Primary Industries Minister, the deceitful Nathan Guy, claims dry areas of the country need irrigation, seen by the recent “extreme drought”. One, the land is dry because the dumb farmers stripped all the vegetation off – duh. Two, the “extreme drought” was nothing but a normal dry spell exacerbated by farmers stripping bare the land. Witness hapless North Canterbury farmer crying “the rivers haven’t been this low in five years!” – duh.

    Nothing but lies lies lies. The place has gone to shit.

    Thanks to lying shitheads.

    And their lying shithead voters.

    • bad12 5.1

      Indeed, watching Bob Parker on Campbell Live last night gave me the distinct impression of a mouse facing an oncoming 20 tonne road roller,

      What is going on with Christchurch building consents, according to Mayor Parker they have fulfilled the legal obligation to process these within the 20 day period and are now being told they have lost the consenting rights because they do not have the ‘technical ability’,

      A sneaking suspicion has formed in my mind that the move by Slippery’s National Government to strip Christchurch Council of it’s consenting rights is in fact the first move in an attempt by these Shysters to ‘privatize’ the building consent process first in Christchurch and if they can get away with that then ‘privatization’ of building consents nationwide,

      i might be way wrong with my suspicion but there is something not quite right going on here…

      • vto 5.1.1

        Exactly bad12. Something is up. I wonder if they have been lovestruck by the awesomeness of their Ecan coup and the wondrous feelings it brings them that they have developed an addiction for big government interference and picking winners and corporate handouts. This addiction has blinded them, yet they remain undeterred. They blunder on charging at a great rate of knots, ignoring the full face frontal reality of the exodus of private investment in their most beautiful CBD Blueprint.

        They are indeed a 20 tonne road roller. Ever followed behind a road roller to see what happens to everything it passes over? Ever seen a seat after fat arse Brownlee has sat on it?

        • framu

          interesting development that i noticed re: CHCH building consent

          1, ministers claimed it was wrong to point the finger at the govt as IANZ was an independant body
          2, bob parker came on news and radio last night claiming that as IANZ was an accreditation body and not a licensing body, the CHCH council could still process consents
          3, this morning, news reports about the govt considering legal measures to prevent CHCH council processing permits

          so yet more blatant utter BS from the govt – something is very very rotten in CHCH and it has the crooked hands of the national and act parties all over it

          • Draco T Bastard

            Something’s very rotten in NZ and it happens to be this lying, dictatorial government.

          • Treetop

            It is never the governments fault and they will find a way of blaming anyone but them for the unaffordable and unhealthy state that housing is in.

      • felix 5.1.2

        “A sneaking suspicion has formed in my mind that the move by Slippery’s National Government to strip Christchurch Council of it’s consenting rights is in fact the first move in an attempt by these Shysters to ‘privatize’ the building consent process first in Christchurch and if they can get away with that then ‘privatization’ of building consents nationwide”

        Yep, textbook “disaster capitalism”.

        • yeshe

          and extrapolate all of this to Auckland and past and present Nact interferences .. we should all be afraid, very afraid — or just become so bloody angry we do something about it, right ??

      • BM 5.1.3

        I think it’s more a long the lines of Christchurch being full of Labour types who will purposely fight National about the way the city is being rebuilt, causing endless holdups and frustration.

        You don’t wont this sort of bullshit going on especially, going into an election, by removing the sabutours, National can finally get on with the rebuild providing heaps of great photo shoots and rah rah, go national stories.

        National has once again trumped the socialists.

        • framu

          so “shut and get in line” then?

          always thought you hated democracy

          • BM

            Well there are definitely pluses and minus when it comes to democracy.
            Won’t argue with you there.

            Just to put on my conspiracy hat for a second.

            I have a sneaking suspicion one of the main reasons Lianne Dalziel has decided to run for Christchurch mayor is so she can purposely spike the rebuild process thus creating bad publicity for the National government.

            You can just see it , she’d be endlessly in the news wailing about what a terrible job National are doing and how the poor, poor people have suffered under the incompetence of National, etc ……, not what you want going into an election.

            The chances of her getting elected are quite high especially with Parker being so hopeless, so National have decided they’ve got to neuter the council and get it in their control before Dalziel gets elected.

            • One Anonymous Knucklehead

              So, your position is that they are as uncomfortable with democracy as you are. Good to know.

            • vto

              Well BM. How have the nats done? Eh? How is that beautiful central bity Blusprint coming along? Do you know?

              And what about the people going through a third winter right now out east? Have you been here? Have you slept here? Is it ok that they suffer a third winter so the national voters in Ilam and Fendalton can get their easy houses repairs done quickly to make up EQC repair numbers?

              wake up and open your eyes fool.

              Perhaps Dalziel will call it as it actually is. Perhaps she is actually concerned for people.

              Tell us – do you know how it is?

              • BM

                Hey, I’m not saying it’s easy or I agree with whats going on.

                I do think in these sort of situations you need to take a bit of a Chairman Mao sort of approach.
                Endless discussion and community involvement = glacial progress.

                Some one has to step in and just get it done

                • framu

                  “a bit of a Chairman Mao sort of approach”

                  holy shit

                • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                  “It” being the operative word.

                  So, from my point of view, “it” would be enabling a process whereby Cantabrians could direct their own rebuild, mediate between opposing interests, etc., whereas for you “it” means dictating “solutions” bereft of community buy-in.

                  As you rightly point out, Cantabrians don’t like being told how to live. Nor do you, I suspect. Pot, kettle, lightbulb?

                • vto

                  Your view there lines up exactly with the nats, unsurprisingly.

                  It may surprise you to learn that “just get on and do it” on the ground reads “just get on and do anything, something,…”. The warped speed which much has been done has resulted in too much of the very underlying base fabric of the city being ripped apart. It has torn the city to shreds. It has gone too quickly, too much. We are now left with a barren landscape with nothing for the people to reference. When locals wander the CBD they are adrift. The link through generations and history has been torn up and tossed in the bin.

                  The speed has been the wrong approach.

                  Who said anything about “endless discussion”? You just made that up.

                  Your view on the entire situation lacks facts, base knowledge and also personal knowledge. Your understanding is pretty worthless actually.

                  The history of the Christchurch recovery has already been written. Check it in ten years BM and see how this government’s actions are seen. You will be surprised at how wrong they have got it.

                  • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                    We must do something! This is something, therefore we must do this!

                    • vto

                      That’s it.

                      Nothing more and nothing less.




                    • NickS

                      Even if it leaves us with nothing but a wasteland of Mc’Offices, empty and barren with dusk like every other office park…

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                      The National Party vs. Christchurch will end badly for the National Party.

                    • vto

                      NickS why on earth would it leave us with an empty barren wasteland? Why do you think that?

                      Imo if it had been left to fly by the seat of the people and their needs and desires i.e. the free market (you know it surely), there would be significantly more building and activity going on in the central city. As well as all the government and council work and building.

                      Why can’t you righties see that?

                      …. sheesh, i despair..

                    • weka

                      “The National Party vs. Christchurch will end badly for the National Party.”

                      What makes you say that?

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                      What makes me say that? Optimism.

                    • vto

                      Well it would end badly for at least one of them …….. aint it grand

                    • NickS

                      @vto – wha?…

                      Sarcasm, detect it you cannot…

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Hey, I’m not saying…I agree with whats going on.

                  Actually, that’s exactly what you were saying:

                  National can finally get on with the rebuild providing heaps of great photo shoots and rah rah, go national stories.

                  National has once again trumped the socialists.

                  You agree with what National are doing (removing democracy and making life worse for Chch) and that you want them to continue doing it.

                  Endless discussion and community involvement = glacial progress.

                  We’re getting the glacial speed from government interference because they don’t want to let the community have their say or to do things their way.

                  Some one has to step in and just get it done

                  Well, what the government should be doing is supplying Chch with the resources needed for the Cantabrians to do it their way. Instead the government is trying very hard to prevent the Cantabrians from doing anything and are, instead, dictating from on high.

            • framu

              so your cool with national trampling all over the wishes and democracy of locals?

              but youve got a conspiracy with a labour pollie running for local office?

              your a strange character BM

        • vto

          Except BM that doesn’t fit the reality.

          Go have a look at how the central city rebuild is getting on. It aint. Although I do agree that that is what the arsehole Nats and their arsehole voters are trying to do.

          Another example is the bullshit claim that EQC are halfway through their claims – ha ha ha ha ha ha ha lying pricks again. They may be halfway through the number of claims but that is because they fixed up all the pathetic claims in Ilam and Fendalton where people had a wee bit of torn gib and left all the other claims in Aranui and Brighton where each claim is each massive. The number may be halfway but the work is about 20% max. Lying arseholes. I don’t know why you support them – maybe you lack a brain.

        • millsy

          Yes, god forbid that the people who have gotten the short end of the stick, ie homeless, those on low incomes, etc have their needs taken into consideration and their concerns heard, rather than just be shouted down as moaners.

          The CHC rebuild is nothing more than a dogs breakfast, with the government seeming to think that all a city needs is a convention centre and a stadium,and all sorts of other tomfoolery.

          The best thing to do with regards to Christchurch is for central government to focus on rebuilding central government things, local government to focus on rebuilding local government things and private sector to rebuild private sector things, with EQC just paying out homeowners and policy holders in cash for them to spend as they see fit.

        • NickS


          What’s to bet you thought the government’s over-ruling of the original inner city plan was right to? Despite it following the same plans that have helped keep the inner cities of many modern EU nations vibrant, liveable and economically productive. Instead of the hollow office park we’re now going to get…

      • JK 5.1.4

        I don’t think you are wrong, Bad12, you’re spot on. This Govt and its mates would dearly like to privatise local govt – it has huge infrastructure to bring in big profits for them. Privatising building consents could well be the start to privatising the whole local govt scene.

        But building consents WERE put out to private contractors in the early 1990s ….. and resulted in ….. leaky homes ! Not that the private contractors were totally responsible for leaky homes …….
        shonky fly-by-nite developers, untreated timber played a part, windows without eaves, etc. etc

        And if this whole Ch’ch building consents scenario is not about privatisation, then how on earth is the Govt and Brownlee going to make sure the Ch’ch building consent process is improved ?

      • NickS 5.1.5

        Stinks to high fucking heaven.

        And for fucks sake, the CCC should tell them to get fucked and take this and the government to the courts.

  5. vto 6

    Why doesn’t Bob Parker grow some balls and stand up for himself and his Council. I have never seen him do that. Never stood up to Brownlee and his bull boy ways. Never fired back a missile. Never stood up to this government.

    He just stands there and offers a useless white tissue of appeasement – each and every single bloody time. Weak.

    Stand up man. Say something you really want to. Stand up for your ratepayers and citizens. What’s the worst that can happen? Eh? Seriously, what is the worst that can happen?

    Stand up and grow up.

    • muzza 6.1

      VTO – Surely you understand the levels involved, right.

      These people operate in a structure, they answer to someone with a higher ranking, they know this. They are also prevented from speaking out, due to their allegiances laying elsewhere, i.e, not with NZ!

      There is no speaking out, they’re on the *same team*!

      • McFlock 6.1.1

        so who exactly isn’t in this global conspiracy to fuck up the planet?
        Any of the chch councillors?
        Any councillors anywhere else in the country?

        Or just you?

        • muzza

          McFlock, the *planet*,as you put it, is going terribly for billions of its inhabitants, not to mention other animal species, and the environment….that aside, it’s not what I was referring.

          Where is the outrage, where is the public airing, of the dirty dealings which are leading to such actions, which are happening in Christchurch, re consents etc.

          Parker, as a minimum, will be well aware what’s going on, well aware of the dirty, filthy undercurrent, which is creating these situations, so where is the outrage, the very public transfer of this information.

          None of these events/actions are an accident, McFlock!

  6. vto 7

    Here is something not surprising I’m sure. I loathe this government as much as I did the last one at this end stage of its life.

    What a bunch of low-level dishonourable people government politicians always turn out to be…

    How does this happen? Is it the system? Or is it the nature of the people it attracts? Is it the addicitive lure of the beehive’s honey? The lust for power and the end-game excessive power always brings about?

    • Winston Smith 7.1

      Is it the system? Or is it the nature of the people it attracts? Is it the addicitive lure of the beehive’s honey? The lust for power and the end-game excessive power always brings about?

      – Yes

    • weka 7.2

      yes vto. Changing the culture of parliament would do a great deal for this country.

    • Watching 7.3

      vto says “is it the nature of the people it attracts?”

      This is an outcome of the type of a elected democracy, regardless of the party.

      From a 4M population, you are looking for someone to stand for parliament as a backbencher, and depending where we are in the political cycle maybe a couple of terms in opposition. So who do we select from?
      …. take out children and most of the >60 age groups
      …. take out those adults that have a past that they do wish to become public
      …. take out those adults who do not have the public (speaking) or social (engagement) skills to be a politician – I expect this number would be high. There are so many people that can operate quite efficiently in their own social or political group but would die in a public role.
      …. take out those adults who do not wish to give up existing lifestyle of family, location, career/small business interest etc. The lifestyle choice of having a significant part of downtime (weekends) time on spent on political events against the demands of your children and/or partner is a big ask, and for a lot people sometime not prepared to sacrifice
      … take out those adults who have no interest in joining political parties but are voters, and maybe their energy is directed at a specific community of national group
      …. Take out those that do not vote in a democracy – at guess this would be at least a 25% of the voting population (you may vote but in a democracy others have a right not to vote or participate)
      … take out those – add your own

      We do elect our politicians from a very small group of of people, and by default cabinet is selected from at best 60 odd candidates.

      An IT Manager role would have more applicants that those Labour party members applying to replace Dalziel or Roberston in a couple of Labour winnable seats.

      You could ask why doesn’t karol. vto, bad12, cv, jenny, iprent, millsy, BM, winston etc stand. They have their reasons and we return to vto original questions, and my conclusion as stated by vto “is the nature of the people it attracts?”

      • vto 7.3.1

        Hmmmm, interesting. And counter to what a lot of people would like to think……..

      • weka 7.3.2

        interesting analysis, but it’s missing some bits. vto asks if it’s the nature of the people that are attracted to politics. Assuming the pool of people is small (as above), why is it that of those people we get the ones we do? Is it because the whole of the pool is made up of certain kinds of people (why?), or is it that there is a subset of that pool that will make it through? I reckon it’s the latter – parliament, and politics, are brutal so you get the subset of hardarses, including the people at the sociopathic end of the spectrum. If parliament had a different culture, we would be getting a better range of people making it through.

  7. One Anonymous Knucklehead 8

    Perhaps he could be the consul in Monaco instead. No, wait…

  8. David H 9

    Now here we go another stick that they can beat the beneficiary with, personally I cant remember the last time I went to a takeaway shop. We find it easier and better tasting to make ours ourselves and we only have fish is we catch it ( or my mate does). And the same with Pizza Meat ends and bases from supermarket. Mcvomits and bugyaking I’s rather eat the box (probably better for me)
    Amazing to see what 10 bucks can buy a poor family in Mangare. But what of the health risks from eating this stuff everyday? Obesity and Diabete’s among others.


    • millsy 9.1

      F and C is of varying quality depending on the establishment. There is only one place where the stuff isnt overcooked in the city I live in.

      McVomits — feels heavy in your stomach for ages afterwards, also it blew out a friends gallbladder and she was in hospital for 4 days.

      KFC — dont get me started on that, its like eating chicken flavoured grease.

      Subway is nice, but horrendusly expensive.

  9. Winston Smith 11

    So people on here like to say how pro-right the MSM is…


    Maybe they shouldn’t interview failed green candidates, candidates that work for APN news and media

    No doubt you lefties will rush to condemn this blatant left-wing propaganda

    • muzza 11.1

      Bro, do you think the decline of this country is some sort of game?

    • framu 11.2

      “So people on here like to say how pro-right the MSM is…”

      usually when talking about the owners and editorial staff

      as for the rest of you comment – whats your problem with the article?

      • Winston Smith 11.2.1

        Oh I don’t know…hes tried it on before, hes a green candidate, he works for the parent company so maybe theres a slight conflict of interest maybe

    • bad12 11.3

      Live under a bridge do you….

    • Draco T Bastard 11.4

      But principal economist at the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research Shamubeel Eaqub suggested perception was not always reality. He said average weekly earnings for all workers had increased more than the cost of living, meaning people were, on average, better off.

      And right there is the right-wing spin.

      Around 75% of people don’t earn the average income (note: graph missing on that page)
      Those people most powerless have seen their incomes decline

      “Canterbury has seen construction wages rise but not for other types of work.

      LOL, My nephew is paid $5 per hour less today than he was paid in 2008 in nominal terms. Take into account inflation and that gap increases.

      Other than that, it’s not too bad. Now, if every article was like that then you might be able to claim that the MSM is left-biased but most articles are the exact opposite of that having lots of right-wing spin and little or no facts.

  10. Mary 12


    How does the cop know that the situation has nothing to do with poverty? This is the sort of worthlessly simplistic pseudo-analysis that that stupid debate on TV3 was always guaranteed to encourage, playing straight into the blame-the-victim claptrap and which is the right’s social policy bread and butter. Disgraceful journalism.

    • Populuxe1 12.1

      Well of course this might be horribly bigoted of me, but it did occur to me that if the parents could afford the regular boozing and parties their neighbours, CYPS and the police say they did, then they might possibly have put that money toward food and treating their children’s open sores. While I’m sure that their relative poverty might be said to encourage them in the pursuit of escapist hedonism, it doesn’t actually negate the fact that they had resources that should have been directed at the children. Thankfully the state has intervened.

      • Mary 12.1.1

        It’s good the state has intervened, but what gives the cops the right to assume they’re an authority on the subject? That television programme has helped reinforce some “poverty versus parenting” explanation where the two are mutually exclusive. What made the cop even want to refer talk about poverty in the first place?

        • Populuxe1

          Probably because the police are often the ones at the coal face in cases of domestic abuse and child neglect, which would give them some insights. I don’t think it was so much poverty versus parenting as one exacerbated by the other, but maybe they wanted to draw a distinction between this scum and poor families that are still struggling but are trying to do the right thing by their kids. The police are human, they see a lot of shit no one would find easy to articulate.

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead

            Yes, because being at the coal face gives you deep insights into macro-economic factors, especially after graduating from police college.

            • Mary

              Nice one.

            • Populuxe1

              Yeah, right, because Economists have a deep understanding of the real social and human impact their entirely theoretical models have, because they have to deal with ordinary people on the edge every day rather than take tea and biscuits in the ivory towers of academia and bureaucracy. That was sarcasm by the way – I though I’d better lampshade it for you.

          • Mary

            Nobody’s questioning the severity of the abuse, just the reasons for it. The greater the severity doesn’t increase the chances that what’s observable is the culprit. Just because the cops see a lot of things most of us don’t doesn’t make them experts on causes. Your analysis falls into the same trap of being way too simplistic.

            • Populuxe1

              I didn’t say the police were experts, I said they had were human and had a pool of experience to draw on. But I’m damned sure that people do in fact become pretty expert in situations by physically intervening in them day in and day out and dealing with the associated beuracracy rather than interviewing their computers from the comfort of an armchair.

              • Draco T Bastard

                And I’m pretty sure that they don’t as they’ll be missing the most important stuff. The stuff that can only be revealed by prolonged questioning. Questioning that would involve asking the police.

                • Populuxe1

                  Um, you do realise that police proceedure involves prolongued questioning, right – and they’re not all mindless drones with moustaches anymore?

              • felix

                “I didn’t say the police were experts”

                Ok then, they’re not experts.

                “I’m damned sure that people do in fact become pretty expert in situations by physically intervening in them day in and day out and dealing with the associated beuracracy “

                Oh, ok then, they are experts.

                “rather than interviewing their computers from the comfort of an armchair.”

                Speak for yourself. You know nothing about what anyone here does or doesn’t do.

                • Populuxe1

                  Felix, you’re doing it again – not really contributing or critiquing, and instead choosing to attack my wording, and actually you can work out to an extent how involved people are in an area by what they say about it – but whatever, go back to being shrill and pointless. Yawn.

    • Treetop 12.2

      I have thought about this family and the assistance that was available to them.

      1. They were in a HNZ home.

      2. CYFs did not know where the family was residing and the family were known to them.

      3. Free GP visits, (not sure if prescriptions are free for under age 6).

      4. The children had nits and open sores from scabbies, (whole family has to be treated and a lot of hot washes of bedding/clothing is required). I have had scabbies and you itch like mad.

      5. Young children roaming on the road and near a creek.

      6. The caboards were sparse with food and alcohol had been purchased.

      It is clear that there was neglect of the children.

      I praise the neighbours for being a voice for the children. I think that CYFs need to employ at least 100 extra social workers to handle the heavy case load of notifications and some social workers/mentors who specialise in intensive parenting skills/financial management.

  11. NickS 13


    Now if only NZ would hurry up and finish legalising it, since adults can already legally refuse life-saving medical treatment or starve themselves to death, but neither way is particularly a nice way to go.

    • NickS 13.1

      Oh yeah:

      “These countries legalised euthanasia for patients in the terminal stage who are able to decide for themselves, but in practice the target group has progressively grown broader and been extended to vulnerable groups in society,” the report said.

      In Switzerland, it added, a fifth of patients helped by an assisted suicide association between 1990 and 2000 “did not suffer from any mortal illness”.

      Peter Singer has covered this better than I, but basically severe mental illness and it’s impacts on quality of life are just as significant as terminal illness, which I know all to well through my own depression.

      Then there’s progressive mental illnesses like dementia and alzheimers that rob a person of what makes them that person, and for some sufferers they don’t want to end up like that and would much rather die with their faculties intact(ish).

      What it comes down to frankly is the ethics of forcing someone to suffer when there are alternatives, along with bodily autonomy, i.e. what right does the state/culture have to say what I can do to my own body?

      Which brings us to the rather difficult to understand (for most) concept of people ending their lives at the same time as their partner and the ethics of that. Which I get, but is not easy to describe :/

      And of course, there needs to be some sort of monitoring system in place to prevent elder abuse, or manipulation of mental states and to make sure euthanasia methods are humane, but such things are not impossible to implement.

      • Rosetinted 13.1.1

        It’s interesting that government that often seems to care nothing about people during their life suddenly becomes besotted with them when they want to make a choice for their own passing from this life.

        Oh dear every reasonable and practical thought such people might give to their last period of living and how it should be, is to be ignored in favour of a belief that you have no rights in this regard. If you have considerations about much money you want to spend on your care, or that family might be interested in when death will occur are matters that completely block off any rational thought about euthanasia and how it can be allowed and governed. The state can have the right to take life but your own is not your property. Response to that – get the police or the SAS to shoot you then. That would be legal.

        Waiting for your body which is your automatic servant, to shut down its devoted efforts to keep you alive though shutting down bits at a time until it loses its ability to function can be a long, wearisome and painful business. Just living and being presented with the constant trauma of human life, your own and the news of the world’s, can cause an ennui in an older person that can ready them to choose to leave this world.

        If you have lived your life, and wish to make a time for it to finish there should be a procedure to follow till the state and the law agree that all care and consideration has been given to your decision and plan. This would be ensuring that you have a will, that you have notified family or nominated a responsible person who has written notification similar to a power of attorney, but specially worded for this purpose, that you have expressed this wish in an interview, and in writing, to a person from a registered group made up of lawyers, and others who are responsible and aware of the importance and solemnity of their task. This should be free so as not to make a financial burden for the service. Such person would check that family have been notified, wills made, dispositions of property organised, and then require that person to come back in a month and briefly discuss the matter and confirm that their resolve is the same.

        Family and supporters should not have to suffer the increased sorrow and grief of being dragged through police procedures and the Courts for assisting any death. Proper well-thought-out, compassionate and practical legislation would avoid this.

  12. just saying 14

    Lots of interesting things going on in the political blogosphere lately. I’ll never keep up.

    Still, Giovani Tiso is always worth a look, if you have a minute:

    It was the absurd question that lingered, for me, above the din of the leadership coup: whether Julia Gillard was a real female Prime Minister, or a leader who was female. That one should seek to make that distinction, and from within an ostensibly progressive, feminist frame, is baffling enough. But there is a weariness that sets in. To grasp the discomfiting essentialism that still dominates the discourse on gender gives one temporal vertigo. Where are we, or rather, when are we? Why does progress never seem to leave the station


    Which got me thinking that maybe Gillard was at a disadvantage in being the first woman Prime Minister and Labour. Tory leaders like Shipley and Thatcher were never undermined for being women leaders anywhere near as overtly, viciously or relentlessly as Gillard was. I wonder if Clark wasn’t hugely fortunate in having Shipley break the some of the icebergs ahead of her. Which isn’t to imply that Clark didn’t herself have to battle against sexism (more and more as her popularity waned, or so it seemed).

  13. forget politics, life can either be cruel or kind, because it may give you false hope
    as soon as the exact moment in life that you thought there was no hope.

    Yesterday I did a blog post, detailing the end of my childhood and the very next day, this
    was in time magazine.



    • Rosetinted 16.1

      Looks good Brett Dale
      What fun and I like the floating hoverboard in the promotion.

      What I would like is an investigation into the possible use of hovercraft for disaster and emergency situations. We’re going to get more disasters. Could hovercraft get to areas where there are low hills with food supplies and water when helicopters can’t operate or are over-stretched? Or what about clever and robust small robots that could explore through rubble looking for people with inbuilt cameras and direction finders.

      Also what about new technology that can increase the number of mines etc. that are found and made safe. Now that should have millions spent on it. Then people won’t need to hover above the ground. I wonder if there was a hoverboard above a mine , whether some of them are so fiendishly made that the movement or some air pressure effect would set them off anyway?

      • Brett Dale 16.1.1


        They already use hovercraft in flood hit areas.

        Hoverboards dont work on water, unless you have powa.

        • Rosetinted

          Brett D
          Didn;t know they are using hovercraft regularly. I guess they are doing the job okay but don’t hear them mentioned often. Usually helicopters.
          And of course there is the car that will become a buoyant boat that Alan Gibbs developed.

          Aquada speedster – Alan Gibbs
          New Zealand inventor Alan Gibbs conceived the world’s first high speed amphibian. The Gibbs Aquada transforms from car to boat at the touch of a button.
          Powerful enough to tow a water-skier, the Aquada combines the thrill of an open-top sports car with the exhilaration of a high performance speedboat.
          (I like the way that this link lists clever Kiwis, first Alan Gibbs then Ernest Rutherford.)

          Yes well, double buggers.

      • McFlock 16.1.2

        Folk are working on the robots, but the problem is range (comms&physical) and terrain.

        Hovercraft – not so much keen on those. Helicopters can already go where trucks can’t, and many places where hovercraft can’t. Although hovercraft are good for fast littoral transit with no need for shore facilities.

        Mines – they basically go off at a certain pressure, and don’t care whether that pressure comes from a foot, a helicopter/hoverboard downblast, or a child’s hand. Which is why they’re a bugger.

  14. Draco T Bastard 17

    More polls going against this dictatorial government:

    Nearly seven out of 10 Aucklanders think their council should decide where new housing development in Auckland takes place, not central Government, according to a new survey.

    56.2% also believe the Government should not have special powers, provided for in a bill introduced under urgency to Parliament after the May Budget, to override the role of councils in deciding where housing development should take place.

    That’s just Auckland but I’m sure that if other areas were polled they’d think the same. Central government should not be able to tell a community how it will develop.

  15. Rosetinted 18

    Government politicians hurrying down to Christchurch to tell them off for their planners being slow on the job. One of the reasons is that they are working in an unstable earthquake environment, they are having to make decisions over a wide area of rebuilding not just to examine an individual building in an existing block, another is that haste to push through jobs by past Council building and planning employees has led to disaster. But central government wants to push things along faster, but will decisions be made that are safe and well-thought-through?

    It would be good for Christchurch residents as a whole to have a chance to attend a meeting with the planning department so they can hear the problems and together work out a way to have quick decisions on the straightforward ones, and have indications of which will need closer scrutiny and civil engineering advice for instance. Perhaps a triage type system should be set up, perhaps a special division just to deal with houses, another just to deal with businesses, and an area designated in Christchurch that is regarded as stable for buildings up to seven stories or whatever. Anyway people should hear what the difficulties are instead of bland, PR by the Mayor and febrile frenzy from Wellington and King Henry the 9th.

    And this is really a result of trying to promote efficiency by targeting. If a things to be done properly it may take time. I think developers have a reasonable point about wanting to get their money to work and get buildings started. Dealing with the bottlenecks for businesses is different from excoriating the whole department of Council and taking away its licence because of some phony, unreasonable time schedule.

  16. captain hook 19

    Had to laugh at Mathew Hootn claiming that John Key is a master politician yesterday on 9-noon.
    Key only got there because the media in New Zealand is privately owned and they set up a shrill harangue that went on for over a year and precisely fits the defintion of a nazi.
    i.e. using word that are not defined. repeating the same thing over and over. shouting everyone else down.
    That may be poltics for some but in no way is it democracy.

    • Bearded Git 19.1

      He does the same thing by constantly reciting selective positive economic data to support National. Even Katherine Ryan is taking the piss out of him for this now. And of course the only positive stats are caused by an earthquake rebuild, an unsustainable housing boom in Auckland (mortgage loans are rocketing up again-see interest.co.nz) and an historically high price for milk products.

      • Rhinocrates 19.1.1

        I wonder what Hannibal Lecter would do if he killed him? Dump the meat at McDonalds and make whoopee cushions out of the skin.

      • Rosetinted 19.1.2


      • bad12 19.1.3

        It will be interesting to see the nature of Slippery’s press coverage when the media finally wake up to the much touted ‘government surplus’ to be declared in election year,

        Bill from Dipton and the Slippery little Shyster have most bamboozled by this ‘surplus’, for an explanation of how such a surplus will be possible you have to go back to financial years 2011/2012 when this Government announced it was borrowing 100 million dollars a week more than it’s current needs,

        Citing ‘cheap money’ as the reason National have stashed this money with the Reserve Bank and it is these reserves of borrowed monies that will allow National to show in 2014 ‘no borrowing’ when the reality is that they will still be using borrowed monies from 2011/12 to prop up the Government accounts…

    • Winston Smith 19.2

      “Key only got there because the media in New Zealand is privately owned and they set up a shrill harangue that went on for over a year and precisely fits the defintion of a nazi.”

      – Thats part of the problem for the left, the constant underestimating of John Key plus the excuses given is why the left won’t be in power until at least 2017

      • framu 19.2.1

        youve partly got a point re: underestimating key

        but to ignore the very blatant role the media played in the switch from a labour lead govt to a national one is quite strange.

  17. gsays 20

    so i understand this is a website of the labour party.

    today four out of four posts (excluding open mike) feature the national party.
    three out of four have pictures of key. (the one that doesnt have his photo has his name in the title)

    of the 31 posts on the first page 6 are open mike, 1 weekend social, and only one positive labour party story (ikaroa rawhiti by election result)

    perhaps this is part of the malaise of the party.

    yes people enjoy putting the boot in however is there such a thing as bad publicity.

    i think we would be better served by some more positive stories coming out of the labour party.

    • Veutoviper 20.1

      Waiting, waiting, waiting ……… LOL

      Is LPrent in the house?

    • Draco T Bastard 20.2

      so i understand this is a website of the labour party.

      Then you understand wrong, read the about.

      i think we would be better served by some more positive stories coming out of the labour party.

      If there were more positive stories about Labour then they might get more positive stories on this site from those authors who decide to write about them.

      • weka 20.2.1

        You might also want to bear in mind that telling the standard authors what to write about goes down badly.

        I am curious though, why do you think this is a Labour Party website?

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 20.3

      Weak grip on reality? Or just a feeble tr*ll?

      We need better wingnuts.

    • Rosetinted 20.4

      i think we would be better served by some more positive stories coming out of the labour party.
      You sing them, we’ll play them.

  18. yeshe 21

    Perhaps Dr Pita Sharples could make fine use of some of his ‘spare’ time and give lessons in Te Reo pronunciation to Speaker of the House David Carter. Carter’s attempts today were an absolute embarrassment. And he knew it as he struggled through it. Dr Sharples .. help the man, please.

  19. gsays 22

    ok oops and sorry.

    the reason for mistaking this as a labour party site is the red standard (flag) and some of the diatribe.

    (who reads all that behind the scenes stuff- kinda like instructions, just get into it.)

    maybe it is time for the labour party to rebrand itself. i have been bought up (grandson of a senior union man ) to understand that labour is for the working man, sky corporate box anyone?

    [lprent: You read like a dumb troll from ~2008. I would suggest you read the policy and up the intelligence in your comments. Also read the about rather than wasting everyone’s time explaining stuff that is written down. They are links at the top of the site. And if you use the usual faux concern at being spoken to like this, you will receive a ban for stupidity. ]

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 22.1

      Right now, your concern is being noted, and people are coming to the conclusion that it’s completely insincere, like its author. Yours faithfully, the Billy Goats Gruff.

    • Te Reo Putake 22.2

      No worries, gsays. The Standard was the original Labour newspaper, hence the borrowing of the red flag symbol. Authors and commenters here represents all kinds of left, leftish and green strands of thought. There are a few regular rightwing commenters here too, who put some, ahem, alternative viewpoints.

      If you are keen to contribute your thoughts, I’d be interested to read them. Regarding the LP, your re-branding idea has been sort of hashed and re-hashed many times here. The upshot appears to be most of us agree that the best LP brand would be one that didn’t have David Shearer standing in front of it 😉

      • Winston Smith 22.2.1

        I disagree with that, David Shearer is the best choice for leader of the Labour party (it’d be nice to know how many labour MPs agree with me :)) and he’ll lead Labour to victory when he gets used to being a politician…2017 seems reasonable

        • North

          More facile go nowhere rubbish from Winston. Thinks he’s a bit of a clown. Is.

        • Colonial Viper

          I disagree with that, David Shearer is the best choice for leader of the Labour party (it’d be nice to know how many labour MPs agree with me 🙂 )

          Uh, about 61% at last count

  20. McFlock 23

    Two more gone from the Glenn inquiry.

    Spectacular attrition rate.

  21. gobsmacked 24

    Latest poll:


    Margin of error changes, not significant. But still no traction for Labour.

    • Te Reo Putake 24.1

      Bad poll for NZF. That leaves LP/Greens a couple of points shy of an outright win, which would be nice.

      • gobsmacked 24.1.1

        I don’t think the NZF result means much, Roy Morgan is very dodgy on minor parties. Hard to see how Winston has suddenly lost half his supporters (for no reason, unless they died of old age?).

        Of course, Labour should be talking up L/G, but they cling to the old fraud, for no gain.

      • Colonial Viper 24.1.2

        Remember Winston knows how to ramp up a finale like no one else. NZF is still polling far higher than they were a month before the last election.

        Plus I think the TV debates are going to be all party ones. Total game changer.

        • Pascal's bookie

          ‘Plus I think the TV debates are going to be all party ones.’

          I doubt this very much.

          • Colonial Viper

            If the Greens are polling around 15%-16%, and Labour is polling at 30%-32%, that is what the Greens will demand.

            • Te Reo Putake

              I think it’ll come down to National’s preference, CV. And given that they are too chicken to actually debate anything in the media now, I can’t see them wanting to be locked in a room with Winston et al in the future.

              • Pascal's bookie

                Pretty much. the Greens won’t be in a position to ‘demand’ anything. the debates are arranged by negotiations between parties and TV co’s.

                Neither Labour nor National will want the Greens in on ‘their’ debate, and the TV co’s, who probably wouldn’t care either way, aren;t going to force them. So how are the Greens going to demand their spot?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Make the case through public pressure as a party expected to get 20 or so MPs, and in doing so being far closer in nature to the mainstream parties than ACT, Mana, Maori, NZF etc.

                  • Pascal's bookie

                    But the argument will be:

                    “These debates are between the potential Prime Ministers, that’s not you Greens, so stop being silly”

                    • Colonial Viper

                      The counter would have to be in terms of public pressure – “the dinosaur days of FPP are over, and its time that Labour and National accept taht”

            • Brett Dale

              Colonial Viper.

              Greens at 15-16%? They may do that in the odd poll, but come election time, they will be at 10%

              • Colonial Viper

                I reckon a final election result of 13% to 14%.

              • lprent

                I don’t think so this time.. They have tended to drop 3% from polling as a max and that hasn’t been increasing as their numbers go up over the decades. I suspect that their solid voting support had been rising as people have started to find them to be more credible.

                Depending on how it goes heading into the election, I suspect that they’re going to be close to 15% on election day than 10%. It wouldn’t surprise me if they are well over 15% in the event that Labour does poorly in their messaging. Especially if the right keeps helping to push their green profile as being ‘dangerous’ – I know that attracts many.

                • Iprent:

                  Last election, it was the Rena that got people thinking about environmental issues, that boost their numbers, I dont see how they can get close to 15%, too many other parties, if labour supporters think its going to be close, labour supporters will vote labour, then you have the maori party and temana, too many parties for them to get 15% or close to it. Then you have nzfirst, you never know what winnie will get up too, that could sway people.

                  • McFlock

                    I dunno.

                    Greens are an excellent campaigning party.

                    • But like every person on earth, they’re not as smart as they’re and their opponents aren’t as dumb as they’re think they’re.

                    • McFlock

                      Even if that means what I think you’re trying to say, I’m not sure that the point I think you may be trying to make naturally follows from what I know I just wrte.

              • felix

                Lolz brett, last time you predicted 7% and they got what?

                I find your prediction of 10% very encouraging in this context.

                • felix


                  Russell Norman is trying to prove how hard is he, so he may get
                  a point or two, unfortunately he is starting to get carried away with it,
                  and people dont like that. 10% for The Greens.

                  • gobsmacked

                    The Greens got 10% only three days ago. In an actual election.

                    That was starting from zero. Next time they start from 10.

                    • fender

                      But Bread Stale the Great has spoken, and it’s non-negotiable.

                      He said “and people don’t like that”, and he speaks for “the people.”

                    • Your living in some sort of pikie fairly land if you think the greens are going to
                      go way over 10% in a general election.

                    • lprent []

                      See my rationale here http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02072013/#comment-656915 why I think that they’re more likely to get closer to 15% than 10% in the coming election.

                      Just been looking at your reasons – oh wait – there aren’t any. Found the revelation in some navel fluff perhaps? Seems to be about your usual level of “thinking”.

                      Perhaps you should explain your rationale rather than simply jerking off an unsupported assertion with no argument in it. Makes you look rather dorkish. 😈

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                      *You’re living in a fairy tale if you think your opinion on this matter is worth anything.

                    • fender

                      That’s not very fair 1prent, haven’t you heard about the “Stale Bread Rena Theory” ?
                      Apparently there’s only one event that will ever get people thinking about the environment, and that’s pretty much over now.

                      Also, it’s best not to assume someone has made a spelling mistake when they accuse one of living in a pikie fairly land 🙂

      • mickysavage 24.1.3

        TRP I keep thinking that this Government is that appalling there will be rioting in the streets any time soon. But an increase in support?

        • Colonial Viper

          No rioting; the landlords I speak to are pleased that they have been able to keep increasing their rents and renters and leaseholders keep paying.

          All is well.

        • Te Reo Putake

          Well, we are famously stoic, micky! Perhaps we’re just bottling it up?

          • Colonial Viper

            Well, we are famously stoic, micky! Perhaps we’re just bottling it up?

            Or just plain bottling it.

        • tinfoilhat

          Get a grip presland.

    • BM 24.2

      Out right majority beckons for National especially with the the collapse of the Maori party

      Once it’s pointed out to the sheeple that a vote for Labour is a vote for the Melons and the Hone the racist mofo, expect Nationals percentage to sky rocket.
      No one except the seriously deranged wants that terrible trio running the country.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 24.2.1

        Except that when you add up their support according to current polling almost half the country wants exactly that, and there’s plenty of time for the fact that John Key is going to contest the next election then bail to sink in. That’s just the way things are. It’s time you got over it.

  22. North 25

    Poor Old John (“my namesake has gravitas”) Armstrong simply cannot countenance that the Mana Movement is growing and the NationalMaori Party is dying. If one is to die he’d rather they both die.

    His Herald article of 1 July – half way through he remarks (grudgingly) – “(At first glance) Mana would seem to be the real byelection winner, having lifted its vote from 14 per cent to close to 25 per cent.”

    By the end of the article, after I daresay a furious spat with his keyboard (he won), he’s satisfied that the guts of matters is this – “On their current course, the Maori Party and Mana are locked together in what amounts to a suicide pact.”

    Oh really John Armstrong ?

    You, the can’t see/won’t see eurocentric dork, you may be frantic that the NationalMaori Party has cut it’s own carpetbagging throat but I’ll wager handsomely that with 25% of the byelection vote Mana is far from that sadness.

    It’s alarming that one who pretends to seniority in political commentary in New Zealand should betray (at the least offensive) the subliminal sense that Maori are only any good if they suck on ShonKey Python’s tit. Deserving of summary dismissal if they do not.

    Give your keyboard its head John.


    Bryce Edwards also in the Herald suffers no mad-making sadness and gets it right (sorry can’t get the link) –

    “As the narrative deepens about the Mana Party having usurped the Maori Party, the notion wlll become more convincing and Flavell and Sharples could come to see that their continued political survival depends on working with Harawira. “

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