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Open mike 02/08/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 2nd, 2013 - 76 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

76 comments on “Open mike 02/08/2013”

  1. Jenny 1

    The politics of fear.

    John Key claims that terrorists exist in New Zealand but refuses to name them.

    The whole terrorist scare nonsense is phoney. The government had no concerns at all about naming and even spectacularly raiding and arresting Tuhoe and other activists merely on suspicion of being terrorists. Suspicions that had no factual basis.

    The need to have anonymous terrorists running around their identities protected by the government is to justify the GCSB amendment bill.

    But we all know the real reason for this bill.

    In spying on 88 New Zealanders. (most probably, none of whom are terrorists).

    The GCSB spies have been, and still are acting illegally.

    Being soft on white collar crime, John Key wants to let them off, by legalising their criminal activities.

    There are no other reasons for this bill. Other than that our spies want the right to spy on all New Zealanders legally.
    If any of their victims did uncover their illegal activity, the GCSB don’t want to find themselves in court.

    Mr Key said the number of people who have links to terrorist groups is small and the Government knows who they are.

    Radio New Zealand

    So why doesn’t he tell us?

    In 2011, WikiLeaks named New Zealander Mark Taylor as someone who had visited Yemen and had links to al Qaeda. John Key said at the time he was aware of Mr Taylor, who was living in Hamilton under a number of restrictions, but that the public had nothing to fear from him.

    Mr Key would not say if his reference to terrorists on Thursday included Mr Taylor, who has denied the links.

    Radio New Zealand

    Sir Bruce Ferguson headed the GCSB for about four years from 2006 said on Thursday he was not aware of people from New Zealand going to training camps in Yemen, but that didn’t mean it did not happen.

    Sir Bruce said normally, this would have been handled primarily by the Security Intelligence Service, not the GCSB. It is possible the GCSB could have been asked to help under warrant, but he said he has no memory of this.

    Radio New Zealand

    Threat real, says academic

    An Islamic studies specialist says people with links to al Qaeda exist in New Zealand and are a risk to the community. Zain Ali, from the University of Auckland, says the terrorist group has a clear agenda to instil fear and terror.

    “They’re always looking to recruit. And I think even John Key’s statement indicates that intelligence services are monitoring people who already have links. So it’s not so much links that are being developed. I think there are already people here who may already have links.”

    However, Dr Ali says with such a violent mindset, the best option is to contain them rather than just monitor them.

    Radio New Zealand

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/215935/al-qaeda-trained-people-in-nz,-says-key

    What does all this mean? The government “know who they are” and just want to “monitor them.” Talk about being soft on crime.

    I would have thought the best option if they exist, at the very least would be to name them. That is, if they actually exist.

    By letting us become aware of these dangerous terrorists in our midst, their chance to do any actual harm would be greatly diminished.

    By keeping their identities secret John Key is protecting them. Why is he doing that?

    Is he actually hoping that they do create some sort of terrorist outrage. So that he can justify spying on the other 4 million New Zealanders.

    By keeping the identities of these few terrorists alleged to be among us secret, Key is smearing all Kiwi Muslims and people of Middle East origin. Helping the spread of Islamaphobia and hysteria.

    Or is he making it all up just to instil a feeling of terror and fear to justify his spy bill.

    John Key, if they exist, stop protecting terrorists.

    Name them.

    • infused 1.1

      If there were terrorists, why would they tell you? That’s retarded. It wouldn’t even be about protecting them. Like in the UK, it’s about watching them and seeing who they have links to.

      • Sable 1.1.1

        Did it ever occur to you that term terrorist is a contrivance and maybe the people who undertook the attacks were responding to something? I do not condone violence indeed I’m something of a pacifist but what occurred in the US/ UK was a response to these countries undertaking acts of imperialism.

        If New Zealand keeps its nose out of other peoples affairs and plays clean international politics why would we have anything to fear?

        • vto 1.1.1.1

          Yep I think the terrorists Key was referring to are the New Zealand Defence Force who, it is becoming clearer with every passing week, were in complete cahoots with the US cunts, torturing, killing civilians, and threatening to kill our own civilians.

          But more likely Key is apeing George Bush and the complete and utter bullshit that was weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, which of course resulted in tens of thousands of civilians being killed there too by the American people.

          After witnessing NZ Defence Force actions in Christchurch during the earthquake period, and now finding out what they have been doing abroad, and spying on and threatening journalists, the conclusion has been reached that they are as dangerous as any armed militia anywhere in the world. Don’t trust them – they are just a bunch of murderers who would (and have just threatened to) turn their guns on us if their generals told them to. This is what militias do. Fuck them.

          • Winston Smith 1.1.1.1.1

            Fuck you wanker

            • vto 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Oh, hit a nerve eh? Which bit is wrong? You always know people are on the back foot when all they have is abuse.

            • Paul 1.1.1.1.1.2

              Interesting intellectual point ws

            • Sable 1.1.1.1.1.3

              Childish Winston but predictable.

              • Winston Smith

                Not as childish as pouring forth an incredible amount of bullshit and exageration against an organisation just to try to score some minor point

                and you wonder why the lefts popularity is dropping

                • vto

                  Thing is fool, there is no bullshit in there is there. Point to it if you can.

                • vto

                  Hey Winston, you may want to look at this. It exposes perhaps a reason people are coming to the conclusion about the Queen’s militia here in NZ that I outline above….

                  http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/29/no-friend-of-democracy-to-whom-is-the-nzdf-answerable/

                  You may be particularly interested in this accurate description of their true role… “The Army, Navy and Air Force do not exist to serve the people of New Zealand, they exist to defend the Crown.”….. and then further through Trotter’s commentary, some more examples of when that has been demonstrated in the past.

                  Any comment?

                  Thanks cnrjoe for the link.

                  • vto

                    Here we sit, exposed to the world. Naked to the intrusion of a gestapo, along the road from barracks filled with soldiers armed to the teeth with weapons not even intended to protect us.

                    Cold lonely chilling exposed.

                    We have nothing to protect us from internal government or militia threats and nothing to protect us from external governments or militia threats.

                    Feel the chill….

      • Pascal's bookie 1.1.2

        If there were terrorists, why would they tell you? That’s retarded. It wouldn’t even be about protecting them. Like in the UK, it’s about watching them and seeing who they have links to.

        Umm infused old chap, The PM gave out daeatils, and siad they are very few in number, talked about AQ training camps and Yemen. I think the targets know he’s talking about them.

      • Mary 1.1.3

        I have to say Shearer was almost fairly quite good talking about this last night. Almost started to sound like a leader. Just a pity it’s too late, a bit like Goff at the last election, but I console myself by saying it’s surely a one-off.

      • North 1.1.4

        So Boys’ Own gets all mouthy and lets it all out. The spooks’ll be spewing !

        • Mary 1.1.4.1

          I’m sure that within 24 hours Shearer will have his foot back where it’s most at home and everything will be okay again.

    • Chooky 1.2

      +1 Jenny… I don’t believe the surveillance is for ‘terrorists’ at all
      …and I would like to see these so called ‘terrorists ‘ named
      ….just as I would like to see named the 88 New Zealanders who were illegally spied on
      …and I would like to see those responsible for illegal spying held to account before the justice system of NZ.

  2. Andrew 2

    Q+A tweeted that Corin Dann will be releasing new poll results on Sunday.

  3. Saarbo 3

    John Armstrong and cheerleading for John Key/National

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10905739

    John Armstrong in todays NZ Herald does his best to provide John Key with veiled protection by suggesting that Parliamentary Services provided the Inquiry with information off their own bat.

    “That someone working for Parliamentary Service could consider it okay to release the private phone records of a Press Gallery journalist to an inquiry sanctioned by the Prime Minister truly beggars belief.”

    And then goes all the way by suggesting its simply not Nationals fault.

    “But a different kind of “culture” must take responsibility for this disgraceful episode – a culture which developed long before Key became Prime Minister.”

    The National Party have a strategy of ensuring what should be independent/neutral institutions such as the Parliamentary Services and the Media (Listen Mr. Armsrong!) end up on their side. However this whole saga will test the media, it has not yet pushed John Armstrong into neutral territory but I’m sure it is putting the pressure on.

    • ScottGN 3.1

      That column came out on Wednesday. Events have moved on a fair bit since then.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.2

      a culture which developed long before Key became Prime Minister.”

      Standard National play: If in a hole of their own digging, blame Labour.

  4. Tautoko Viper 4

    Interesting information about NSA funding GCHQ in The Guardian. I wonder if GCSB has been offered funding by the NSA? Follow the money…

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/01/nsa-paid-gchq-spying-edward-snowden

  5. ScottGN 5

    I’m loving the way Radio NZ is continuing to remind listeners that while the PM was apparently too busy to go on Morning Report yesterday he somehow found time to go onto ‘music’ station More FM and make his ridiculous claims about terrorists in NZ.

    • tc 5.1

      Shonkey goes where the soapbox is and he demands all questions are written in advance so the spin can be prepared, this one’s moving too fast for that.

      Shonkey doesn’t like to go where the sunlight will get shone into his ever growing list of lies and deception.

    • Paul 5.2

      A they need to do this more often
      Campbell Live is excellent at reminding viewers when Key, Joyce won’t front for his show.

  6. Sable 6

    This is interesting, wonder if Keys and co are getting a kick back from the Yanks:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/01/nsa-paid-gchq-spying-edward-snowden

    • Anne 6.1

      Tautoko and Sable:
      Typed up a comment here along the same lines yesterday. Wondered if the NZ govt. was getting some sort of financial kickback from the Americans for doing their bit to toe the US line?

      I deleted it because I thought some might claim a step too far etc…

      Bear in mind Deep Throat’s oft repeated advice to Woodward and Bernstein: Follow the money trail.

      Perhaps out investigative journos need to do the same.

      • Sable 6.1.1

        Given the UK government is being paid to spy on its people I do not see why the Keys government might also not be getting compensated for their spy efforts. Its a reasonable question Anne.

        • Anne 6.1.1.1

          The revelation re-the NSA funding of GCHQ in Britain hadn’t hit the ether when I commented Sable. Hence the deletion. A bit of skiting on my part that I’d already thought of it. 🙂

      • Well it wont be the first time Annie.
        Remember the Cossack adverts when Muldoon never disclosed who paid for them/Also realize that the National party is a member of the Democratic Union .The senior member being the USA Republican Party and don’t forget their association with

      • Murray Olsen 6.1.3

        I’d be surprised if they weren’t getting logistic, technical, and financial support from the seppos. Spies love a chance to play with the latest technical wizardry, but given the ideology of NAct and the school prefect types who become spies, I think they’d work for Washington anyway. Access to toys would be an added bonus.

        Meanwhile, we have an army unit who are trained to kill (not capture) “terrorists” inside Aotearoa. They were put together before the Rubber Wool Cup and the soldiers in it believe that the unit was established due to international treaties and responsibilities to the UN. It seems that it hasn’t been widely publicised.

  7. Mary 7

    What’s Labour’s stance on resourcing the Ombudsman’s office? Keys and the Nats are milking its under-funding to death. Government is getting away with a truckload of underhand and undemocratic shonkiness and every other kind of unfairness simply by starving the watchdog into a toothless malfunctioning joke of an organisation. The question is whether Labour has the guts to say they’d fix it in the name of transparency and democracy, or whether they’d also like to benefit from the same deliberate under-resourcing?

    • Sable 7.1

      Yes that’s the question, isn’t it. Are National the only party who have been co-opted by foreign interests and have a vested interest in quashing Kiwis human rights?

  8. Herodotus 8

    Is there some uncertainty as to the health of our Australisian banks and the strength our our economy.
    Wonder why these responses are happening with such urgency ?
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-01/banking-shares-fall-on-banking-levy/4858994
    http://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/bank-shares-wobble-budget-levy-074703705.html
    http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/regulation_and_supervision/banks/policy/4368385.html
    And we still allow property to go its own way, unregulated and allowing this bubble to inflate at such a damaging rate.
    I get the impression that there are some very concerned bankers out there.

    • muzza 8.1

      What people need to appreciate, is that the banks shares can be crashed at any time the High Frequency Trading algorithms are set to do so!

      When the nations do not fall in behind the demands of the imperials, two things happen.

      1: Taken to War

      2: Stock market crash(ed), act of war.

      The publically listed companies ensures that with the technology behind the electronic markets, and the banks owning, not only the lions share of the equities, but also the High Frequency Trading sytems, which can be set to carry out any buy/sell instruction desired, to achieve instability and panic, when in reality, share prices do not mean squat, but in virtual speak, they absolutely do!

  9. Lorraine 10

    Divide and conquer is the Key governments approach. Set rich against poor and divide the middle class into the social climbers and the disenfranchised. Rush changes through government with no time for discussion and public submissions.
    Do I believe that there are people who are being trained for terrorism by Al Queda who are NZ residents. YES. I have meet one at University and his beliefs scared the living daylights out of me. Do they need to take away everyone’s privacy to catch such people. NO.
    People are killed in vehicles. Do we take all the vehicles off the road so nobody will be killed. NO.
    The National government is playing on our fears. They have the means to hunt down the few people that threaten NZ without targeting innocent people.
    Fear, uncertainty & doubt…is what we are being dished up every day. The media need to do more to expose how we are being manipulated by our elected government.
    Is John Key another Robert Muldoon in a better looking face?

    • Anne 10.1

      Well said Lorraine.

      Starting to suspect he’s worse than Muldoon. I honestly don’t think Muldoon went as far as Key has done…

      He wasn’t a wheeler/dealer by profession so he had some respect for the justice system and the rule of law.

      • North 10.1.1

        No……….I don’t believe Muldoon went near the excesses of this guy. Muldoon was committed to New Zealand. He made me puke but it was a New Zealander puking at a New Zealander.

        Not this bitch whose homeland is Wall Street/City of London. There’s a different morality.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.2

      +1

      I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

      And, of course:

      Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself

  10. Veutoviper 11

    Do we want this happening here?

    In the States, hubby googled “backpack” ; shortly afterward, wife googled “pressure cooker” to find out how to cook lentils…… the FBI appear at the door.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/8994624/Googling-leads-to-anti-terrorism-visit

    • Sable 11.1

      Just goes to show how genuinely stupid these idiots are and worse still people are expected to pay taxes to be treated like this. Talk about making a rod for your own back.

    • Bill 11.2

      Not entirely sure how I feel about ‘stuff’ treating it as ‘merely incidental’ or about ‘the guardian’ being so flippant in their piece.

      There is some very serious shit about intrusion bubbling just below the surface that, for whatever reason, neither outlet even comments on – let alone investigates… (particulary odd given the guardian’s NSA exclusives.)

      “Ha-ha-ha. The Stasi came to my door after I commented to my neighbour about buying bread after I’d done the washing. Turns out they thought I was money laundering. But, y’know. They were nice and they were just doing their job hahaha”

      (subtext – “nothing to hide, nothing to fear”)

  11. pollywog 12

    I play chess like a pigeon and have been pig wrestling…I need a shower!

  12. Draco T Bastard 13

    Don’t suppose Darien Fenton is around so as she could explain WTF this artacle is about?

    • Rosetinted 13.1

      So Australian companies are coming here for lower wages. Hah! At last! I have been waiting for the market to start working as it should. At last we are being recognised as perople with the labour-saving tools that we have been in training for ie companies can save on labour in NZ!

      More training and honing of our work and administration methods will mean that we can compete against the Chinese labour market soon and think of all that wonderful business we can woo here. /sarc

      In actual fact a heading from Oz media talks about their business people being wooed by China.
      http://www.theage.com.au/business/world-business/chinese-spies-woo-business-leaders-20130524-2k717.html

  13. David H 14

    Trying to do a search on the Winz site, and this is what I get.

    “There are too many pending search requests, so the search appliance cannot respond to your query at this time. Please try again in a few minutes.”

    FFS. It looks like they are also cutting computer resources as well.

  14. Treetop 15

    As thick as this sounds were Dunne to abstain would the GCSB bill still be able to be passed as the vote would be 60 to 59?

  15. Rosetinted 16

    I’ve been thinking about modular housing for NZ, especially that can be built quickly and got the name Omega popping up. This seems to be a German company that has many different avenues for building new infrastructure, improving agriculture etc.

    Maybe there is something they do that could be copied, utilised?
    About modular housing methods
    http://omegahaus.com/eng/what-is-a-modular-home


    Omega low cost housing

    and other services across the globe
    http://www.omegahousingltd.com/agriculture.htmwhich NZ could be doing to earn some money in this country by promoting our services globally. I wonder if I look under Kiwi Capabilities or such, what would I see?
    Under ‘Kiwi initiatives new business models’ first there is something about sports and then about Kiwirail. So there- that’s our brightest and best under this heading on google.

    And other German initiatives –
    http://www.standard-freeholder.com/2013/06/18/german-firm-teams-up-with-first-nation

  16. Pascal's bookie 17

    Friday lulz

    http://www.estrelladigital.es/salud/feos-sufren-bullying-trabajo_0_1435656644.html

    reliably informed headline is “Ugly people suffer more bullying at work”. Which is not lulzy. But the photo they grabbed to illustrate proved me to be a bad person.

    • richard 17.1

      That explains why the Nats were so mean to him. I always thought they were bullies and this just proves the point.

    • Treetop 18.1

      When a proven treatment is available and it is denied I consider this to be manslaughter. There are many uncommon conditions which can kill and they also miss out on a proven treatment being researched. E.g. Limited or diffuse scleroderma.

      • Colonial Viper 18.1.1

        You better have an ethical and moral model which takes into account limited resources.

        For instance, would you have the Government purchase a $100,000 per year drug to keep one person alive 3 years longer, but have to cancel 25 hip and knee replacement operations for middle aged people stuck at home, in order to balance the books?

        • Treetop 18.1.1.1

          “You better have an ethical and moral model which takes into account limited resources.”

          To see a specialist for a consult there is a point system so ethics and morals come into play here.

          Money could be found by tackling type 2 diabetes or accidents due to having consumed alcohol which clogs up ED and costs the country millions. Too often people with a uncommon condition try to live healthy e.g limit alcohol and type 2 diabetes causing food.

          • Colonial Viper 18.1.1.1.1

            No complaints there. But I hear the calls of Nana State (alongside that of Big Brother State) already.

            • Treetop 18.1.1.1.1.1

              Coddington put it this way, an unhealthy diet causes hospital admissions and a premature death vs there is a cost in elderly care.

              Choose carefully!

          • McFlock 18.1.1.1.2

            IMO the problem isn’t so much available funds (which is always a problem, but largely determined by wider issues like inequality, tax policies, and early intervention points), but is more that when we talk about rare (but high consequence) conditions, the treatments are often disproportionately expensive and of limited effectiveness (or evidence of effectiveness).

            The model used to assign funding is more generic and slaps a normal curve over the top (a basic model is the Quality-Adjusted Life-Years), so those treatments at either end of the curve miss out. It’s not so important at the low-incidence low-consequence low-cost area (by definition), but I think a separate fund for the low-incidence, high consequence high-cost conditions is probably a good idea.

            • Treetop 18.1.1.1.2.1

              Effectiveness can only be known if the medication or treatment is administered. I personally would want to trial a drug which is available if my life depended on it. Were I terminal I may think differently.

  17. just saying 19

    This is turning into a bit of a hobby-horse, but here’s the thing:
    Bryce Edwards again explicitly associates The Standard with the Labour Party. Today, and I’m not linking – it’s in the Herald – he describes us as “Labour-leaning”. In the same article, and repeatedly in the past, he refers to Whaleoil with no similar designation. Apparently WO is independent of the National Party. In previous articles, Kiwiblog is not referered to as being associated with National. Despite the fact that both these blogs are National Party apologist sites, and while TS includes Labour supporters, it isn’t Labour-leaning – actually. Is left-wing too hard to spell, or is this just sloppy scholarship?

    • Paul 19.1

      Have you considered emailing him your concerns?

    • bad12 19.2

      Bryce is of course ‘in training’ to take over from the titular head of Fifth Column Jonolism and NZ Herald political reporter John Armstrong,(pity His head wasn’t),

      Bryce seems to be attempting to prove to the owners of that in-august rag that He to can denigrate the left while praising the right with monotonous consistency…

      • Murray Olsen 19.2.1

        Does Bryce still need to prove that? In my view, that’s all he’s been doing for years.

    • karol 19.3

      Maybe Bryce is confusing the Labour Party with labour movement.

  18. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 20

    Found this and started laughing.

    October 2007, the Standard announces that Key is losing his mojo.

    Key losing his mojo

    A six year slide.

    • chris73 20.1

      And I bet once Keys popularity does begin to slide (like in about 2-3 years time) there’ll be a lot of crowing on here about how they predicted it

  19. bad12 21

    The Office of the Prime Minister has in the last hour ‘dumped’ hundreds of pages of information relating to the Henry inquiry on the Press,

    What has so far been gleaned from this is that Eaggleson, the Prime Ministers Chief of Staff, demanded repeatedly that Parliamentary Services release full copies of emails between Peter Dunne and Andrea Vance which after an argument Parliamentary services did,

    i have no knowledge yet if these emails also include the reverse, from Vance to Peter Dunne, Dunne is claiming outrage and seeking legal remedy…

    • Treetop 21.1

      What is Dunne most outraged about?

      That it may be publicly known what was said between him and Vance

      or

      that the Prime Minister’s Chief of Staff demanded repeatedly that Parliamentary Services release full copies of emails.

      • Murray Olsen 21.1.1

        I’d guess the first. I’ve seen plenty of evidence that Dunne is a stupid old fool who would let his imagination and narcissism run away with him, but none that he has any principles when it comes to constitutional practice.

        If there is something in the emails – it will come out. He will be embarrassed. If he changed his vote to avert possible embarrassment, he should resign yesterday. He has the ethics of John Banks and the political vision of a lump of plasticine. He will not be remembered for anything worthwhile, which is the legacy he deserves.

  20. muzza 22

    Lianne Dalziel – Woops, caught in a load of spin, by one of NZ’s most knowledgeable financial researchers!

  21. North 23

    Dunne’s mad as fuck ! HE-IS-AS-MAD-AS- FUCK !

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8996411/Emails-given-to-inquiry

    There really is something smelly here………

    Gimme more power gimme more power !………???

    What might happen if The Hair remains electric ?

    Whatever happens it will contribute to the ShonKey Python’s Flying Circus fiasco we have become.

    Sadly.

  22. North 24

    Dunne’s mad as fuck ! HE-IS-AS-MAD-AS- FUCK !

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8996411/Emails-given-to-inquiry

    There really is something smelly here………

    Gimme more power gimme more power !………???

    What might happen if The Hair remains electric ?

    Whatever happens it will contribute to the ShonKey Python’s Flying Circus farce we have become.

    Sadly.

  23. Colonial Viper 25

    Ross McEwan, New Zealander, announced as head of Royal Bank of Scotland, on pay of £1m a year.

  24. muzza 26

    He used to work for CBA, so must have got called back to one of the mother ships, you know we are going to get some kick back from this.

    Time to get digging, I guess.

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