It’s more than implied. And what’s the red flag got to do with it? It’s about caring and being inclusive, something Labour lies about still valuing. Just listen to the way Ardern talks about the poor. It’s all about “them”, “they” and “their”. She’s as bad as fucking Bennett.
The two ain’t mutually exclusive. How about talking about people? The way Bennett and Ardern refer to beneficiaries and low income earners (beneficiaries especially) as “them” and “they” is just repulsive, as if somehow people with a bit of cash or luck are in some way inferior to them.
Solidarity, sure, but the objection Mary has is to Ardern saying “They are living in cold houses with no food to eat” – and the alternative, “We live in cold houses with no food to eat” sounds either completely disingenuous or incredibly patronising.
Expressing solidarity – “I am here to stand with people who live in cold houses with no food to eat” – isn’t the same thing.
I thought Ardern actually did a really good job around election time when she did that TV spot going back to Murupara and saying “This is the neighbourhood I grew up in, and while I don’t live here now it’s obviously affected my beliefs and means I do actually understand poverty”. Solidarity without co-opting.
Of course it is, but that’s not the point, CV. The point is Mary has issues with Jacinda Ardern and Paula Bennett – two women on damn good pay – using the third person plural to refer to other people. I’m only trying to explain how using the first person plural would not be an improvement.
“Solidarity, sure, but the objection Mary has is to Ardern saying “They are living in cold houses with no food to eat” – and the alternative, “We live in cold houses with no food to eat” sounds either completely disingenuous or incredibly patronising.”
The comparison you make is wrong. There is no requirement for the speaker to align themselves with the subject in the way you’re suggesting by saying “We live in cold houses with no food to eat”, in the same way it’s not necessary to say “They are living in cold houses with no food to eat”. The answer, in relation to this particular example, is simply to say “People are living in cold houses with no food to eat”. You’re making things unnecessarily complicated.
Rubbish, Mary. You are. Sure, for one-sentence examples “people” works fine … but for extended speeches?
“People are poor and this means people can’t feed people’s children or keep people’s houses warm in winter. We want to support people so people can get jobs and people’s children don’t go to school hungry.”
WTF? Suddenly using ‘they’ to describe a group of people to which you are not a member is offensive? Unless you’re a beneficiary yourself using ‘we’ and ‘us’ to refer to beneficiaries is nothing but a creepy affectation.
And this is not doing anything to warm me to the current Labour leader:
But Mr Tamihere gets on well with Labour leader David Shearer and other Labour MPs said they would not object to his return.
And there’s this (who is not apparently in line for a change of shadow job?):
Meanwhile, Mr Shearer has confirmed he will go ahead with a reshuffle, either before or after the Christmas break, to give MPs just under two years to get to grips with their portfolios before the election.
“I did say a year ago I’d look at how the year went and fine-tuning what we’re doing and that is exactly what I’ll be doing.”
He would not discuss details, but MPs including Andrew Little and Chris Hipkins have performed well and Mr Little could pick up the employment spokesmanship from Sua William Sio – Labour has chosen jobs as one of its main prongs of attack.
Education is also likely to change hands – Nanaia Mahuta’s second child is due in December and it is possible Mr Shearer – a former teacher – could take the spokesmanship for himself at that stage or pass it on to Chris Hipkins.
Little has done some good things re his ACC spokesman role, though the Greens have often been sharper at getting points out there.
No way and no how! Besides the Waitakere Labour Party would revolt. They are determined that Carmel Sepuloni should have another go. She was a whisker from winning last time and with a slightly less antagonistic Green campaign would have won.
She ran a far better campaign than I’d expected when she stood for selection. By the election she’d quite evidently had worked up a pretty good team (always a good sign). I can’t see Tamihere being able to do anything similar.
Running against a sitting minister is always a hard slog. They get themselves entrenched if they don’t manage to personally screw up. Despite the slow descent of National, it is still going to be a hard slog to wrinkle Bennett out of that seat (depending on where the boundaries end up after the census).
Sepuloni can almost certainly do it. Tamihere is more likely to fall over his tongue.
Edit: ouch – nasty wee network drop then from orcon…
Agree about the possible boundary change. It could be with the loss of South Island population and Auckland growth and intensification that Mt Albert and New Lynn will move towards Downtown Auckland and New Lynn could lose the Titirangi Whatipu strip to Waitakere. There could then be a new urban seat out west and Waitakere could become more rural and less Labour friendly.
Carmel would be better off going for the new urban seat.
No way and no how! Besides the Waitakere Labour Party would revolt. They are determined that Carmel Sepuloni should have another go. She was a whisker from winning last time and with a slightly less antagonistic Green campaign would have won.
Is the left willing to talk about accommodations yet?
And, sorry micky, it’s never been the Greens who were unwilling to tango, as the seemingly eternal Ministerships of Peter Dunne and Winston Peters demonstrate.
Carmel lost to arguably the most revolting Nat there is. Bennett is a bully, she is vindictive, she is unleashing hell on the most vulnerable in society and she is proud of it all. She stands for everything that there is to despise in the National Party.
And guess what. She beat Carmel.
I am sorry but she shouldn’t get a second chance. To lose Waitakere to one of the most hard right politiciains there is, is a clear message that Carmel is the wrong person to be standing.
This should be a comfortable Labour seat. JT is not the man but surely someone better than Carmel can do the job.
Sorry EiE. I know the area very well. It is anything but a safe labour seat and the result was a testimonial to the local party’s efforts and Carmel’s qualities.
Letting an animal abusing, homophobic, tax dodging drunk driver represent Labour at the next election is about as dumb as it gets. After Tamihere took leave when the dishonest financial dealings in the Waipareira Trust came to light, he badly insulted a number of Labour MP’s… Some of them still work within the Labour party and I doubt it’s all just water under the bridge.
If Carmel Sepuloni isn’t available, what about Ewen Gilmour? At least we’d be laughing with and not at him.
Why should we vote for you? I represent the working class, I’m friendly, recognisable and approachable. I have an international reputation for making large groups of people from all walks of life happy. And I know how to deliver irony in a well-timed one liner.
What’s the biggest issue facing your area? Paid parking in Henderson, foothills in Swanson, acceptance of ethnic diversity, the meth (P) problem.
What’s your solution? Paid parking is just a trial. In the short term, removing your wiper blades will leave the parking warden nowhere to put the ticket. Foothills, sneak on to the foothills and plant natives, then someone will need resource consent before they can cut them down let alone develop. Ethnic diversity, food, music, dance and art festivals. Meth problem, I really don’t know, we could all listen to Pita Sharples for a start.
JT’s views on the provision of welfare, health and education services are pretty much aligned to National and ACT. His support of charter schools and his speech about welfare at the Knowledge Wave conference back in 01′ (remember that talkfest?), are exhibit A and B in that regard – he says he is opposed to dependency, but in reality, he wants to make the poor dependent on him.
He has a big bee in his bonnet about WFF, preferring tax cuts instead, even though that a tax cut would be far less than a WFF payment (he also joined the tax cut chorus).
He hates unions and supports the rollback of workers protections
He hate gays (not too sure why he has such an issue with people doing things in their own bedroom).
He supports private prisons and asset sales.
Not too sure why he would join Labour again?
Perhaps he should join National? He was linked to them a few years ago, plus they dont actually hate brown people anymore, just those who arent rich, or who refuse to join in the keeping up the the Jones’s arms race.
All of which makes me think this is just Tamihere’s imagination getting the better of him… With embellishments by the media in order to create a story.
he says he is opposed to dependency, but in reality, he wants to make the poor dependent on him.
That’s true of all people hungry for power. They say that they want to reduce peoples dependency upon the government but hide the fact that they want to make as many people as possible dependent upon them.
While he was standing
In prayer in the chamber,
The angels called unto him:
“Allah doth give thee
Glad tidings of Yahya`
Witnessing the truth
Of a word from Allah, and (be
Besides) noble, chaste,
And a prophet
Of the (goodly) company
Of the righteous”
Yep and when you snap at her she bites LOL. and at the end of the one missing bit was the Thank you it was just travel safe…. in other words why did you waste our time with this shite?
I didn’t really see Key “crack”. He just hit back quite hard, running the line that it would be wrong for him to tell the GCSB who to investigate – with a straight face making a claim for democratic leadership – is why he doesn’t need to know everything GCSB is doing before they do it.
Not a snap really. Rachel asked him if he thought that they should be “keeping him in the loop.” Mr Key twisted that to was she/they somehow recommending a “police state” and “should a PM be deciding who to prosecute or not prosecute.” Rubbish Mr Key. We think that it would be necessary for a PM to be “kept in the loop” by getting regular updates especially over issues that affect the international influences on NZ.
To not be in the loop is a dereliction of duty.
Exactly. Thanks for the links, Karol. Key was certainly not comfortable in that interview – but obviously looking forward to his visit with the Hollywood big boys. His relief at the end of the interview was laughable – seemed to think he had nailed it with his spin. Don’t think so.
there was a momentray bit from key where he almost snapped – the whole “NO!, if you have me on your show you have to hear me out” bit – never mind the he was interupting all over the place
interestingly – listening to the non-vocal responses from smalley reveals a lot
My word, I saw a very serious ‘banker’ advertisement on TV last night, the only inspiration I could draw from it was that maybe, just maybe banks are finally ‘getting’ the feeling of unrest at the ideals of capitalism around the world, surely why else would they produce such filthy propaganda.
Their angle is, the problem is not the money, but how the money is used (and it looks like individual money) I will have to see it again to understand its intent better. Though was rather reminded of the way in which women make men feel better about the size of their small penis by saying “its not about the size, its about how you use it” – the old quantity vs quality thang 🙂
Weird. But weirder is what was or is the intent of the ad? Have they lost the plot? Or have they done something incredibly stupid, and are going to have to own up about it.
Weird. But weirder is what was or is the intent of the ad?
They have been having ‘teasers’ for it, and when I saw them I thought it was about a coming attraction film! It looked interesting – now I am very disappointed.
They completely excuse the fact that it is about money, how you get the money, what it does to a person in the process of the getting and that playing at being “good” afterwards is just a band aid for a gusher of a social wound. In the past, money was often considered an avoidable social blight, it’s just that no one bothers to look at any history that isn’t white, doesn’t excuse the claims of the status quo and that would force people to face the reality they’ve created.
Rule #1 of Modern Life: If it’s on TV, it’s bollocks.
it’s just that no one bothers to look at any history that isn’t white,
Not just non-white people have regarding the getting (and spending) of money as an ‘avoidable social blight’. My Scots forebears felt the same way, or so my mother (the last of them) often said.
I saw a very serious ‘banker’ advertisement on TV last night, the only inspiration I could draw from it was that maybe, just maybe banks are finally ‘getting’ the feeling of unrest at the ideals of capitalism around the world, surely why else would they produce such filthy propaganda.
People are waking up to how banking operates with films such as Money Masters and Zeitgeist and websites such as http://www.positivemoney.org.nz/ to show the complete corruption of the present system. And then there’s Steve Keen and other heterodox economists starting to make an inroad into the MSM as neo-liberal economics shows that it’s complete bollocks.
Given all of that the banksters really do have to try to head off all the negative press that they’re getting. Hopefully, their propaganda will just help convince people that they’re lying.
“Damn this dry shingle country”,
Old Jack the swagger cried-
“The rutting hare beneath; above
the brown hawk in his pride;
And not one green gooseberry bush
To suck and lay beside.
“reminded of the way in which women make men feel better about the size of their small penis by saying “its not about the size, its about how you use it” – the old quantity vs quality thang ”
Or when a woman asks “Does my bum look too big in this?”
And a man will make her feel better about herself by replying with the white lie “Of course not honey, you look great!”. 🙂
Geez that’s a bit sad….I thought it was for pokerstars or whatever as I never hung in till the end to see NAB’s NZ division’s logo….I normally mute them anyway.
Never mind their gargantuan profits it’s really your fault, this just shows how disconnected and gullible they are as the agency pitch worked but it’s far from alone. I’m mean these clowns thought the pig’s were top drawer….banks & pigs, oh dear did they think kiddies all have piggy banks, they have ToyStory/madagascar/Ice Age etc etc now.
The new countdown ad is a bit sad also.
Then there’s telecom and the no sex for the AB’s campaign…..the old boyngirl network is just sooo not connected with reality,.
I would prefer to think it is a rumour (although I understand he has rejoined) and that the party is far too bright to even think about allowing Tamihere another run at Parliament.
Agreed. He is an silly loose cannon with half-formed opinions and a bad habit of being incredibly sloppy in his work. Not to mention just plain stupid – who would be daft enough to do an meeting with a live mike on the table….. Mmmm. Key and Banks. Ok, lets rephrase this – to do this with that doyen of journalist integrity and balance – Ian Wishart.
But if you think about it. The idiots in Wellington are probably unaware of how much of a useless pillock he is. After all they aren’t the ones looking at the quite apparent inability to do any serious campaigning in Auckland. He couldn’t get a working campaign team around him at any stage in the past – why do they expect him to do so now?
But the beltway idiots do have this tendency to get suckered into anyone with the gift of the gab.
Showing up on my browsers ok. That is odd – we don’t even store those, they come directly from gravator.com. I suppose that they could be being cached at cloudflare.com, but then I’d expect the problem to show on my browsers.
First time ive seen TS in all ‘win’ and it looks all weird, probably just me as I hate Internet Exploder. It took me 3 attempts to get it to TS on a first run I get a dumb window asking if I want to set it up with standard options Yeah right. Or wait, Wait. Then I paste the link into the address bar only to have fucking Bing pop up, with a window of options NON of which had TS on it Bloody rubbish. 3rd attempt it finally brought up TS but it just looked Odd.
And before I am asked Yes I use Ad Block and No Script Both of which are disabled for this site and ONLY this one.
[lprent: The JQuery is due to get removed on the next round of updates. But there is always going to be some javascript in here ]
It is a good article and one we should be taking seriously. Business interests really have been working to subvert democracy and they are winning in that regard. It’s why Shearer gets up to beneficiary bashing rather than laying the blame for our present problems where they lay – with business and the rich.
Wouldn’t it be funny if Draco and QofT got to run Labour’s next election campaign.
Shearer delivering speeches about “destroying the patriarchy and liberating Wymmin and Herstory” and “annihilating Capitalism and slaughtering the capitalist pigs, ushering in a Socialist utopia and the End of History!”
“P.S. “the End of History” was promulgated by Francis Fukuyama who was/is a neocon”
Actually he borrowed it from Marx’s Dialectical Materialism. He was being witty – the End of History was suppose to be a Socialist Utopia. But in the 1990s Communism was dead and buried and the neocons were at the height of their powers – thus this was a revised End of History.
Anyway 10 years later or so, Fukuyama was back peddling like crazy when the Yank neocons crashed and burned in Iraq.
KP’s use of Marxist is such broad application is no less different from others here use of ‘Tory’ as a blanket term to label anyone who disagrees with their own bug-bears.
You might have a point, if KP hadn’t gone on to mention “annihilating Capitalism and slaughtering the capitalist pigs, ushering in a Socialist utopia and the End of History!”.
Personally I reckon the use of the neocon term just shows what a moron KP is, either confusing it with the Communist “Synthesis” or simply playing “insert random big word here to sound smart”.
The eradication of capitalism and execution of holders of capital are specific objectives that are not what one would term “moderate” socialist objectives.
‘End of History’ isn’t a neocon term.
A (former) neocon invested it but it relates to liberal, free market, democracies as opposed to neo-conservatism which is more than the liberal free market as espoused by Fukuyama.
Interestingly though “End of History” was used by Marx in the sense of the final point in mans socio/political development.
So whether KP was right in his use is debatable depending on context.
I think you’ll find it was Hegel that coined the phrase and that Marx updated it. And there is no correlation between the use of Tory and the use of Marxist.
Tory refers to supporters of mainstream conservative politics, specifically in the UK and more generally in other commonwealth countries. It’s not a perjorative term per se and it’s representative of quite a broad group, whereas Marxist means a subsect of the left, and one not normally associated with the western parliamentary system. The left equivalant of Tory is probably the mildly derogative socialist, at least in the UK, though most labour parties these days of course prefer Social Democrat.
No surprise Kiwi Prometheus doesn’t get it though … KP’s nuts.
Yes, I was incorrect in the invention but Fukuyama definitely gave the term a reinvention in this modern era.
Tory is not a pejorative term per se however people use it frequently on The Standard in a pejorative and blanket sense which isn’t applicable to every disagreement.
Personally I reckon the use of the neocon term just shows what a moron KP is, either confusing it with the Communist “Synthesis” or simply playing “insert random big word here to sound smart”.
Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis —> which contains another contradiction —> Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis —> which contains another contradiction, and so on and so on and so till you get to the final Synthesis with no contradiction = End of History
Comes down through Hegel and his mystical inclinations to Marx. Synthesis is not ‘Communist’ its an element in a Philosophical argument.
“simply playing “insert random big word here to sound smart”.”
Pity it’s an aberration rather than your usual standard of fucktardedness. Although I’m not exactly sure where dtb stands on execution of the capitalist class.
Stretch a bow to the very full,
And you wish you had stopped in time;
Temper a sword-edge to its very sharpest,
And you will find it soon grows dull.
When bronze and jade fill your hall
It can no longer be guarded.
Wealth and place breed insolence
That brings ruin in its train.
When your work is done, then withdraw!
Such is Heaven’s Way (as opposed to the way of man)
In NZ the ‘Centre for Independent Studies’ (?) and the Business Round Table which was set up by arch-neoliberal Douglas Myers have the same function. They have articles in the MSM and probably tell John Key exactly what to do and when.
Right wing much better funded and more tightly organised and institutionally supported than the Left.
So of course they are winning. The only way for Labour to win is to be friendlier towards them and their ideas. I am glad that the beltway realise this.
Hey MickeySavage. Re yesterdays discussion on Open Mike around Helen Clark/Childfree Vs.Childless: Absolutely no need to apologise. I just wanted to point out the terminology, thats all.
I wasn’t being uppity towards you at all. I always like what you have to say.
To me he was like the socialist version of Edward Gibbons’ The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire – a guy who presumed to pattern history.
Or like a really lithe and magisterial version of The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist.
He was the history version of Habermas for me – of a generation when the idea of being Left meant being able to imagine and enable the overturning fo the entire world.
Hobbsbawm for me recounted all the different epochs in recent history in which overturning the worst of the world was possible.
Certainly not a revolutionary. But really seenig the world my way, and having th time and devotion to really map the whole thing out as if the world could both be redeemed and made sense of at once.
Damn that makes me sad. I will drink to his memory tonight, from the top of Mt Eden, and survey the City as the supreme work of man, and rail against it all.
(Had a banner advertising the National Day of Action outside Avondale Market on Sunday 30 September 2012, and banners keeping the pressure on dodgy John Banks and shonky John Key 🙂
Press Statement: National Day of Action Against Welfare Reforms, 5th October 2012,
By Janet Robin, President, Waitemata Unite.
“The Waitemata Branch of the Unite Union supports the National Day of Action Against the Welfare Reforms this Friday October 5th.”
“We will be joining the protests at 12 noon at Henderson Square,
1pm at WINZ Henderson (36 Sel Peacock Drive) , and 2.30pm at Paula Bennett’s Office
(429 Great North Rd).”
“ We are appalled at the cruel, punitive, discriminatory and short-sighted measures the National Government is taking against poor families, youth, and the sick and disabled! ‘”
“Forcing small children and babies into childcare and their mothers onto the job market is wrong. Parenting is work and single parents are doing the work of two! They raise our future workers and tax -payers. Children are our taonga!” “ Parents must choose whether day care or paid work is right for their family.”
“Taking money from our poorest families is state violence against children.”
“It is not OK for 270,000 New Zealand children to live poverty. Kids are hungry!”
“It’s not OK to control parents by punishing their children.” “It is not OK to make the poor pay for the bankers’ and corporates’ crisis.” “Deliberate impoverishment of children contravenes the United Nation’s Rights of the Child!”
“Taking money from youth stops them being able to manage their own lives; and gives the control to private providers who do not know their needs.”
“Forcing the sick and disabled into work may spread disease, and cause worse illness or even death.”
The real welfare reform needed is to raise all benefits to a living income!” “Discrimination against families on benefits must stop! “Working for Families
Child tax credits and a Universal Child Benefit must be available for all families.”
“We call for full economic and social support for parents, carers, the sick and disabled.”
The government must create jobs; raise the minimum wage, and make tertiary education free! “It needs to build the welfare state not destroy it.”
“It must stop the privatisation of health, education, welfare and water, and return them to the people.”
“We call on workers, students, parents and beneficiaries to unite against these attacks!
Let’s build strong communities, support each other, and create a better society.”
so Kweewee is off to California ostensibly to have meetings with the Movie set.
Wow!
More drivel for the masses.
But I bet he has a secret meeting with someone in the US top secret establishment and gets hauled over the coals for being a monkey.
Had to go back to Bowalley Road to find the definition of that shadow construct. My conclusion is that he doesn’t exist in the form Chris trotter intended; his “woman” doesn’t either. Don’t know any women from the west of my age that would be attracted to John Key’s “…boyish charm…”. Does Chris know any people who live out West? In 2008, Waitakere Man would have to have been between the ages of 50 and 200 to carry the full wieght of the projection, and that would be a fairly small demographic with an awful lot of power if Labour reckon it was “him” who ended the Clark regime.
I wasted almost 6 hours untangling the boogy man. Found some interesting things, but nothing new. Of the people I knew, I could construct a Waitakere Man from fragments, but no one was him in and of themselves. No one mentioned anything using the words PC Bullshit or welfare bludger. Since the culture was watered down rural, everything was one side or the other, no need for fancy names; it was a simple nod or look, a refusal to help or a making of plans to be elsewhere; education was good, though free thinking was something you did in private.
That’s the trouble with projections and scapegoating, they’re simplified distortions. And why the West? The place has been officially scapegoated since at least the late eighties, when The Herald had a full page article on the definition of The Westie: Black clothing, angry dog, drives a Holden. What The Herald forgot, is that at that time, those people were a minority who had money. I was just a kid wearing free second hand clothes. Outrageous Fortune was a parody of a parody of a parody. But “westies” aren’t the reason the West is scapegoated. You have to go back further than that. The place has a nasty history, all prettied over with lies and inherited privilege. The thing is, that while the West has a past, there are numerous places in NZ that still live a present just like the West’s past and that’s an embarrasment not many can bear cold turkey. My shadow man lives on the North Shore; white, arrogant from over education, ignorant about life outside narrow social norms, concieted, a little narcisstic. I never knew him as a complete person, just clashed with some of his traits. I’m just about over him, but it’s taken several years.
So hell, I’m not going to tell you that Waitakere Man doesn’t exist if you need to kick him to cover NZ’s collective guilt. Wouldn’t want you to go into personal meltdown unnecesarily. As far as things go, he’s the least weep-worthy. He isn’t a woman, or gay, or an immigrant, or a man on his roof painting or cleaning, or a Maori, or an Afro/Native American or an Australian aborigine. He is mightily kick worthy. He’s the ultimate white man:
Stripped forests, dammed streams and poisoned rivers
Starved at least one tribe at the base of the Waitakere’s
appropriated land for his kind; took money for land that didn’t exist
abused his women and children with booze and patriarcy
enslaved himself and fellows for money
The list goes on and on. It’s not the done that’s makes Waitakere man so kick-worthy. It’s that he still lives in us all. It looked to me like Chris Trotter was attempting the difficult and dangerous task of trying to embrace the shadow man in himself – and crossing the line from careful observation into sympathy – when he said in 2009 that when the music stops the Waitakere Man should not be left standing, and later, that certain people couldn’t move on because they hated their own kind. Maybe he even highlighted the shadow man in the Left. Right now, we have a man leading Labour who is manipulating the shadow the Left won’t embrace.
So you’re feminist, but damn it, you’re middle class and white.
So you’re an indigenous activist, but your family is well placed.
So you’re a union leader, but earning much more than minimum wage.
So you believe in welfare, but only for the deserving, you’ll never need it yourself.
Yeah I can understand the tension of contradictions. I can’t tell you how to solve your problems, but I won’t hate who you tell me to hate and I’m pretty sure shifting the blame to phantoms is counterproductive.
While there is a big gap between saying the jig is up, honestly healing the scars of the past and reaching a future transition, creating new shadow players for our political landscape is a waste of time. We have the benefit bludger, we have the Waitakere Man, we have all sorts of drama triangles going on and none of it is leading anywhere remotely useful. We can’t chop bits from ourselves and banish them from the village as a scapegoat, or float them out to sea or down a river in a reed basket. Calling things as they, as opposed to constructing myths, exposes our part in it and if we’re awake, we might discover something of what all of us need.
I was born out West, lived and worked there till I was 22. I’m your evil Man, consumed with the “…ingrained mysogyny and cultural diffidence…” Chris says I am. Once apon a time I even had a trade. Couldn’t hold onto my stuff like Chris reckons, though, life is too complex for such simplicities. My family lived on a land lot that was once appropriated land. I’m white, privileged in the way white people are, no matter how poor and ruined they get. Before that my grandmother escaped the violence and drunken womanising of my great grandfather, she passed the problem to her daughter, she passed it to my Father, he passed it to me. I’ve done and been all kinds of things, I’ve seen enough of my own darkness to terrify myself. Which part, which place, which evil do you want me to atone for? Which role do you want me to play, to persecute another person for my wrongs? Will your projection fit me? What you going to do about it? Isn’t this fun, this study in dancing from victim to rescuer to persecutor? Wake the hell up, people.
If you want scapegoats to end, finish with your own first. Then we can move on to politics.
I also thought Chris was wrong and Carmel Sepuloni went within a whisker of proving this.
I commented at the time that I thought there are at least eight different Waitakere tribes. Cutting and pasting …
There is a good number of traditional pacifica and the children for who the traditional island way is less and less attractive.There is the green tribe, Labour and Green activists who are deeply concerned about environmental issues and whose activity and contribution to Labour and the Greens is a disproportionate one. They are incensed at this Government, at its desire to mine conservation areas, and at the attack it has made on the protection of the Waitakere Ranges heritage area.There is the traditional tribe, working class homeowners who are getting on in age and who generally stick to Labour. Some of them were persuaded by National’s “Labour lite”campaign of 2008 to vote for Key but many of them are now scratching their heads about how they could have been persuaded to do so.There is the superior tribe. They always believe they are better than the rest and think that voting National shows their superiority. It takes a lot to change them.There is the beneficiary tribe. It is often hard to get them to vote because they are trying to cope with many problems but if threatened they will do so. They will not vote for a benefit basher.There is the geriatric tribe. They used to be predictable in the way they voted but tend to be persuaded by self interest. Stephen Joyce’s threat to the gold card will not have gone done well with them.There is the ethnic tribe, primarily Chinese and Indian who network well and who respond to concepts of equality and fairness. They were sucked in last time by Law and Order issues but things have got worse under this Government and I suspect they are regretting their last choice.And there is the self employed tribe, the “Waitakere tribe” that Trotter talked about. They believe in fairness.
To win Waitakere you need to dominate about 6 tribes. But not all of them.
Well put, Mu=icky & Uturn. I have thought that the Henderson area, and wider Waitaks, is pretty diverse….. and I don’t think I know any of Trotters “Waitakere Men”.
Awesome stuff UTurn.
I’ve always found CT to be a tame ‘lefty’ trotted out to show the frogs that the MSM have ‘balance’ and yet another priviledged out of touch soul ranting on so the presenter muppets can nod sagely at his musings as if it’s food for thought .
Uturn.
onya m8.
now how about something on the complete lack of courage by Len Brown and his council when it comes to standing up to the malfeasance of Rodney Hide and the crew trying to steal POAL off the people of Auckland.
“These sorts of rumours start spreading when the authorities in Qatar simply refuse to release any information to the families, public and media about what actually happened,” he said today from San Francisco.
“Whether it is true or not I have no idea, [but] to stop these rumours the government needs to release the report.
“Rumors will always circulate to fill the void of real information.
The whole article is so poorly written, of course there will be no official report released, its obviously a total sham, and rumour as eluded too in the above extract – BS all the way!
Let’s just clear this up, we have Syria “responsible” for this fire, and Iran responsible for the DoS “attacks on the banking systems (helps with the executive order to regulate the internet too, you know the one which would not pass through any level, even in the corrupted houses in America)…All rather convenient isn’t it!
The White House’s computer system was targeted in a cyber attack, a senior administration official said on Monday, but no classified systems were breached.
There is no evidence that data was taken in the incident, the official said, adding that the attack was identified early and did not spread.
The Obama administration is preparing to issue an executive order that would direct federal agencies to develop new guidelines to shield computer networks from cyber attacks. The White House undertook the new rules after Congress failed earlier this year to pass a comprehensive cybersecurity bill.
It’s all getting far too transparent/predictable these days…
Before the milk could be tasted by humans, tested in clinical trials on humans or produced commercially, New Zealand’s genetic modification policies would need to change, McNabb said.
Currently New Zealand has restrictive policies, with strict rules on genetic modification including containment provisions for research.
“It’s going to come down to what this country decides. It’s more of a social issue than a scientific one.”
Argh I see, you come up with a GE situation which will pitt people against eachother (especially those with young children, so you get it really emotional), and you get them to scrap it out in the hope that this will open up our laws to open slather GE/GMO
Indeed Weka, that is certainly the question, although a cure this is not. Its the advancement of the unnatural over the natural, while trying to sell it to people as “progress”
Wonder who stands to gain the most from the “band-aides”
As I mentioned above Weka, this will serve multiple functions for the “stakeholders”, inevitably to not only make a profit, but to control chunks of the agri-farming industry.
But finding an issue which could potentially become devisive is crucial, and very little would be more divisive than combining childrens health, and GMO products.
If you are against the use of “chemical milk”, then you are against “my child”, but with our current state of non GMO labelling, it would seem that being for “chemical milk”, potentially means that you are putting your childs allergies, ahead of not only other peoples children, but also against adults as well….
As DTB noted – Stop drinking cows milk, its not designed for humans anyway!
“It’s probably just more known about now than in the past”
You think a hundred years ago people weren’t capable of noticing bad effects in their body from eating a certain food?
More likely is that environmental factors have changed. In no particular order of relevance – pasteurisation and homogenisation of milk, increase in multiple assaults to the immune system (including from food allergens), a shift to high carb diets, changes in the breed of cows being used for dairy, changes in the way that milk is drunk and eaten, increasing multigenerational susceptibility to all those things etc.
Actually, water buffalo, yak, horse, cow, sheep and goats milks has been used long enough in Europe, ME, Russia-Central Asia, India and Africa that there’s very high penetration of alleles that allow for lactose digestion. Particularly within cultures that depended heavily on cattle. And domestication of some of those milk producing species actually dates back to the early neolithic with the emergence of agricultural cultures.
i.e. teh wiki is your friend, check first if unsure instead of looking foolish by saying ignorant stuff.
And on allergic reactions – there’s been a rise in allergies for some time, part of it is down to environmental factors, such as healthier environments and less parasites (hygiene hypothesis). Otherwise the spread of health service availability, has made allergies more visible and survivable/treatable, and the advent of the petrol motor and refrigeration has made fresh milk a lot more available. Most people before that would get their dairy products as butter and cheeses.
So taking these factors into consideration, milk allergy presentation within modern populations is actually a bit more complex than your argument.
And in this particular case is linked to a protein found only in cows milk, (rather than lactose intolerance) so teh hygiene hypothesis probably comes into play here.
One theory says that homogenisation alters the proteins and this is what causes problems in the gut. Another theory says that pasteurisation kills the beneficial microbes as well as the pathogenic ones (and possibly changes the proteins) and this also causes problems in the gut. People with problems who drink raw milk instead often report an improvement in their health, sometimes a marked improvement or complete remission of symptoms.
Milk is for calves not humans. Surely this GE rubbish will put overseas people off buying New Zealand products, many still believe the myth that we are clean and green.
I’ve never really understood the milk is for calves not humans argument. We might as well say that eating beef isn’t for humans. Or mutton, or any meat that we couldn’t kill and eat when we were still living in the trees. In fact, if we all came from near the equator originally, why not say we should only be eating tropical food?
A Fonterra rep may appear soon! I just find cow milk a revolting product.
Humans are omnivores that these days have a lot of choices from industrial food production. If city dwellers had to slaughter, gut and butcher a beast to get their meat rather than buy it on a styrofoam tray there would be way more vegetarians.
There is enough research to say that eating meat isnt for humans. Surely we have evolved to a stage where we can admit there is no justification for the cruelty involved in the killing of animals. It is just not necessary. It is possible to find delicious vegetarian food to take the place of cruelly obtained meat and dairy.
belladonna, that’s a moral argument (and one that is easily refuted if you really want to go there) not a biological one. Humans have been eating meat and milk for tens of thousands of years and been healthy with it for the most part.
There is enough research to say that eating meat isn’t for humans…
[Citation Needed]
While we can survive off veges, fundamentally meats are very efficient and easy to digest (once cooked/cured/smoked) source of protein, which is why the genus Homo learnt to exploit wild sources and eventually work out how to farm animals for meat. And unfortunately we’re also hardwired to love the taste, so it will probably take a global disaster or price issues to make us less dependant on it.
Of the clinically significant type, with teh controls/deep info stuff to get a better picture so we don’t get false positives/negatives.
Also, mostly the proteins are denatured, in the particular case of β-Lactoglobulin however, both before and after pasteurisation it seems to trigger an immune system response. So pasteurisation probably isn’t to blame.
Anyhow, the heat treatment thing case further implications vis human diets due to the fact we tend to cook _everything_ we can get our hands on. Which denatures proteins, which are then ripped apart in the stomach via proteases (protein digesting enzymes). So working out if pasteurisation is the causative factor is actually kind of “complex” /cough
Are the proteins actually changed? Or is it a simple matter of the tiny fat particles being able to penetrate the gut wall directly, taking undigested dairy proteins and other matter into the body for the immune system to react against?
Generally though food temps get at or above 100 degrees (bar slow cooking, which carries with it certain risks) which for all but proteins with a large number of disulfide bonds, pretty much denatures proteins fully.
As for the raw milk thing, to work out what’s going on we’d need to see a clinical trial or at least full reporting which takes into account null results in order to see if there’s any thing actually going on. i.e. is it merely the placebo effect or something more significant?
And a little more detail: the immune system usually recognises only small-ish polymers sequences, so usually we can design vaccines using only a relatively small protein sequence (depending on protein’s 3d structure) or merely a single protein. However, given the 3d structure of proteins + any sugar coatings (polysaccharides) or if they’re a glycoprotein, an antigen (thing that triggers immune response) may actually comprise a small area of the 3d structure. Rather than a linear protein sequence.
Which is generally disrupted by pasteurisation and cooking 😛
@CV – one word “bile” 😛
i.e. that stuff that breaks apart fat and oil globules during digestion so gut bacteria can break up the fats and proteases get at any proteins.
And antibodies are found outside of cells 😛
derp (4 hours or less of sleep here) so with milk allergies, what’s generally happening is antibody recognition during ingestion and digestion of dairy products of short protein sequences that happens with both raw and pasteurised milk. And yes, it does happen with raw milk, because that’s what you purify certain milk proteins from for part of allergy testing.
Actually, water buffalo, yak, horse, cow, sheep and goats milks has been used long enough in Europe, ME, Russia-Central Asia, India and Africa that there’s very high penetration of alleles that allow for lactose digestion.
*Sigh*
Did you hear me mention lactose, or did you assume?
Did you see me suggest that what I wrote was the complete explanation, or did you assume?
Are you suggesting that sheep’s milk and yak’s milk and cow’s milk are somehow all equivalent? Or did you assume?
So taking these factors into consideration, milk allergy presentation within modern populations is actually a bit more complex than your argument.
I really tire of academics who think they know shit, but finally when you drill down, it turns out that the shit they know is nothing but a really deep but really narrow shit which can help fuck all people.
And if you’d bothered thinking, you might have picked up on something I alluded to in there, that was a consequence of the emergence of lactose tolerance in human populations. i.e. there was evolutionary pressures on human populations to exploit available milk sources, which also would have made milk allergies less prevalent. Admittedly I should have made the clearer (I <3 crap sleep) though.
I really tire of academics who think they know shit, but finally when you drill down, it turns out that the shit they know is nothing but a really deep but really narrow shit which can help fuck all people.
🙄
Then stop using the fruits of it, I hear alt-med will so totes cure all cancers 😎
Funny thing though, vaccines = science, green revolution = science, etc etc, then there’s the whole methodology of science (I tend towards more systems-based approaches), which is fundamentally a very useful set of tools for sanity checking truth claims, and avoiding stupidity (though being human…). So frankly, you appear to be full of shit.
Pesticide residues = lack of knowledge + political stupidity over chemical controls (i.e. no precautionary principle…). Heck, up until the 60’s we still didn’t have a good grasp on cancer causation and were just starting to understand how hormones worked and thus the potential impact of stuff that was chemically similar to hormones.
Land Degradation/Soil loss = poor farming techniques, argicultural scientists have been hammering on it being a problem for decades upon decades, but the costs have never been apparent enough (despite being rather real and expensive) for corporate and small farmers to alter their farming systems to deal with it sadly 🙁 So it’s not so much a failure of the green revolution, but of cultural stupidity.
Loss of biodiversity = again, farming techniques issues, heck until recently biodiversity hasn’t had intrinsic value, so it was usually ignored. Only in the last 2 decades really have we started to nut out empirical costs of biodiversity losses and force the anti-conservation/greenie crowd to see the true costs of their ignorance. Sadly a little too late perhaps 🙁 Though with carbon pricing, we should see greater emphasis on biodiversity as a carbon sink tool.
Anyhow, mainly the green revolution was the application of evolutionary theory to crop breeding, allowing for the emergence of highly fertile crops and ironically involved very primitive genetic modification via mutagens to increase selectable variation. Without this, even the advent of cheap fertilizers probably wouldn’t have avoided global hunger issues* and revolutionised yields and nutrition for many farmers in the developing world. Although the push for monoculture crops is coming back to haunt us, and we will likely see major development of newer crop cultivares via selective breeding and use of better suited farming techniques.
Of course, the annoyance is a lot of the negative issues with the green revolution were predictable, particularly the use of monocultures and pesticide/herbicide resistance via evolutionary theory (tools already in place, Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher did the grunt work vis maths+ stats tools). And I’d have to go a history hunting (not a small project at all and I’m too disabled by depression at present) to understand why this happened. Whether it was a failure to research this stuff or a political/economic issue in which warnings were ignored.
____________________________
*main ones today aren’t so much production limitations, but rather price and distribution, with poverty and political instability + climatic variation and the effects of climate change being presently lesser causes.
Most mammals normally become lactose intolerant after weaning, but some human populations have developed lactase persistence, in which lactase production continues into adulthood.
And thanks to loads of insidious corporate advertising, we are (no doubt) drinking vastly more milk and consuming more milk containing products today than 50 years ago.
I go back to my original point then – people were just as capable of understanding when something they ate made them sick before the advent of mass media. If lots of people were getting sick from drinking milk, they would have known about it.
People talked to each other about their health before TV. Books were written on health too. Obviously alot of things have changed, and mass media has a big influence. But it doesn’t follow from that that allergies haven’t increased.
I did french, german, and latin – and remember nothing of them. However I am currently literate in at least 30 other current languages – to a coding standard. C++ is always the favourite though. I forget how many I have forgotten (snobol anyone). I seem to have several types of assembler and innumerabe libraries embedded..
The only way to learn and remember languages is to use them constantly. IMO, people who say that they aren’t good at languages just aren’t in the right environment to maintain those languages that they don’t know. Put them in the right environment and I’m pretty sure that they’ll pick them up pretty quick.
Well, I would like to agree with you but I spent 2 months trying to learn Spanish followed by 3 months traveling through South America and picked up nothing expect how to ask for beer and coffee.
Good link DTB, surprised by how many I know, in Far North Māori population is around 45% and bi–culturalism is a numbers game reality rather than a construct.
In a nut shell – they’re ignorant bloody fucking idiots. 5 second search on google for β-Lactoglobulin function reveals it has no role in developmental biology, any probably serves as a protein source and carrier protein for hydrophobic molecules, like fatty acids. In fact, if it had any critical role in developmental biology, the calf wouldn’t have made it to term, let alone be healthy enough for AgResearch to go “success!”.
And by the elder things, the rhetoric they’re using is just so damn stupid and illustrates even further how little they understand the fucking science involved. Which from the little there’s revealed in the news is actually pretty neat and involves using micro RNAs to target gene expression patterns. Which in this case leads to the organism expressing a lot less β-Lactoglobulin, rather than a knockout mutation that disables the gene or it’s relevant expression mechanisms. In theory, because it’s a lot more straight forward (due to it being a lot more specific) there was probably a much higher success rate. But until the paper comes out, probably wont know exactly how it was done.
Also, NZ GMO laws vis large transgenic animals definitely need work, unlike a mouse or a plant, escape risk is very, very low. Although the calf being abducted/”euthanised” by anti-GE nuts is probably quite high…
Yeah you scientist types have regularly been right about this stuff, until new research turns up in 20 years time showing that you weren’t aware of something critical.
Differentiate between technology and science mate.
Further, there have been plenty of major fuck ups in the development of internet technology as well. IE6 and AOL for starters.
Science progresses the environment, not the people.
What is this idea of “progress” you talk about? Shinier stuff with better screens and nicer pictures? That’s the measure of progress in our civilisation is it?
science provides the difference between an airfield control tower and a cargo cult. And the difference between a new heart valve being inserted and bleeding a fever victim to realign their humours.
Just think, somewhere like a billion people are in a position to read your railing against science within seconds of you pressing “submit comment”. That happened due to a range of sciences. People live longer and are more able for more of their lives. Pity that science hasn’t figured out how to make people more grateful for their blessings.
Sorry McFlock, unless you are willing to count fitter turners, test technicians, and software developers as scientists, you are suffering from a huge amount of scientism based overreach,
science provides the difference between an airfield control tower and a cargo cult.
Bull shit. Science is one ingredient of the above mate, not the whole cake, and not necessarily the biggest or most important ingredient.
For instance – are you trying to class the Wright brothers as scientists now too? How big a role did they play in the development of what you mention? How about huge? Again your comment is overly influenced by an over reaching faith in science.
As for the cargo cult, they merely observed a pattern and deduced a conclusion. A good use of scientific process.
Given that the Wright Brothers drew on the research of George Cayley, a founding member of the British Association for the Advancement of Science, yeah, science was essential for the Wright Brothers achieving controlled flight. I never said “science is all you need”, I just think we’d be fucked without it.
Yeah you scientist types have regularly been right about this stuff, until new research turns up in 20 years time showing that you weren’t aware of something critical.
is not the same as
Science is just one ingredient. And only a minority of the problems which trouble society can be solved with it.
In flight, scientists did not make the breakthrough application.
In medicine, flight of meaningful distances and speeds, logistics, navigation (sea/air/land), communication, energy generation (and the identification of its resulting hazards), agriculture, nutrition, water supply, computing, etc etc etc… on the other hand, scientists can, did, and still do create breakthrough applications and more importantly push the limits of knowledge to enable others to do the same.
And the only problems that scientists can’t contribute to the solutions thereof are social problems. For those you need Arts majors.
The other faith you seem to have is that having more people who are more highly qualified (whether in the sciences or arts or whatever) increases the tendency for problems to be solved, not created.
Well, I’m reading at night, eating clean and safe food with a plentiful supply of clean water and a reliable and safe source of heat should the elements turn.
Oh, and arguing with someone hundreds of miles away while having immediate access to much of the world’s knowledge even if it’s stored thousands of miles away. And not just the big stuff – I can look for the experience of others who might have the same interest as me be it gardening, carving, knitting, surviving in the wild, amateur astronomy, or how to tie a bow tie.
Definite progress compared with, say, the 14th Century. By that measure I’d be dead by now. No shit. Gotta love scientific medicine.
Scientific medicine. What an oxymoron. Stochastic medicine I’ll accept. Also, perhaps 75% of our increased life expectancy has come from other sources. Increased income and education levels etc. As I have already described.
Wait, what?
The Wright Brothers had to draw on many scientific advancements to achieve flight.
Aerodynamics, velocity, fucking gravity.
Did that make them scientists? Possibly not but without the scientific disciplines of those before them they wouldn’t have made such an achievement. The Wright Brothers stood on the shoulders of giants
” How big a role did they play in the development of what you mention?”
Huge, because we furtherance out understanding into flight and how it might be achieved.
“Again your comment is overly influenced by an over reaching faith in science.”
Science requires no faith. Faith is the antithesis of science
And yet it and other forms of empiricism have been stunningly successful verses theology and anything else which ignores reality in favour of myths and assumptions about how the world works.
There’s an interesting and blurred transition from doctors as priests to doctors as scientists, but the reason we don’t try to balance the humours now is science. Major steps like Harvey, Snow, Pasteur, and so on were due to science, not faith or luck.
Sure mate, as I discussed earlier this is known as “progress”. Our state of scientific knowledge is so damn good and you must believe in it, until…it’s not.
One of the funniest scenes I remember from Star Trek was Bones McCoy telling a modern, late 20th century doctor that he wasn’t going to allow any witch doctors to work on his patient. “It’s a wonder anyone made it out of the 20th century alive” he smirked.
Show me any pre-science birth control with a <1% failure rate after a month of use.
Yes, science is a late-comer to human existence. And look how far we’ve come in a few hundred years. Yes, new and serious problems have emerged – but where social problems don’t rule the roost we’re usually healthy, strong and long-lived.
This western based scientific rule has barely lasted 500 atomic blasted years yet you think its the best thing that human kind has ever achieved in 50,000 years. Gimme a break. The arrogance.
Show me any pre-science birth control with a <1% failure rate after a month of use.
Its out there mate.
And I’m unavoidably amused that you are using this as an example of one of the greatest triumphs of modern science.
Modern contraception is very useful, sure, but it’s trash grade futility mate in the final analysis. You know, once the final sums are tallied up. Humans spent 50,000 years with fewer than 2B of us on the whole planet.
But in just 100 years this number will quadruple. Such is the power of 99% effective contraception.
Yeah, and how well would you do in a cave? Like I say, I’d probably be already dead. And that’s not including infant mortality and infanticide of the weak, just some conditions I’ve had in the past.
“Its out there, mate”
Should be easy to show me, then. Thanks to Archaeology. And the interwebz, of course.
Perhaps your ancestors in Western Europe were living in caves 10,000 years ago but a lot of civilisations around the world had already moved on from that mate.
Seriously, the arrogance.
The absence of western science =! living in caves.
Don’t worry about civilisations, they’re overrated and they never last. There were definitely sophisticated human cultures 10,000 years ago. Australian aboriginal cultures go back at least 5 times that.
Nasty, brutish and short is something that was made up by the English 😉
Utter shit. The ancient Greeks were doing science based upon the scientific method some 2500 years ago. They discovered mathematics principles such as trigonometry which is still in use today and discovered planets and knew the earth was round, even coming within a hairs breadth of accurately measuring the earths size.
500 years? you idiot. Modern science has been built on 1000’s of years of discovery – we stand on the shoulders of giants.
Utter shit. The ancient Greeks were doing science based upon the scientific method some 2500 years ago. They discovered mathematics principles such as trigonometry which is still in use today and discovered planets and knew the earth was round, even coming within a hairs breadth of accurately measuring the earths size.
Nope, dig around in philosophy and history of science some more* 😛
While yes, classical Greek philosophers did get some of the basic science stuff, ultimately when we examine their writings we find that they weren’t so much aiming to understand what they saw, but rather to model it. What they did also lacked the whole internal heavy criticism and peer review thing modern science developed during the 1700’s in Europe.
500 years? you idiot. Modern science has been built on 1000′s of years of discovery – we stand on the shoulders of giants.
Ah, more we stand on population growth, and the false starts of older cultures philosophers 😛
______________________________________
*Note: this unit is very tired and last did science history stuff a long time ago
“Sure mate, as I discussed earlier this is known as “progress”.”
Progress?
Development of calculus > Development of theory of gravity > Velocity > Aerodynamics > flight.
Science.
“Our state of scientific knowledge is so damn good and you must believe in it, until…it’s not.”
Science is self-correcting and science never pretends to have all the answers…which is why we always learn. Science demands learning, demands revision, demands re-correction. Always.
There’s an interesting and blurred transition from doctors as priests to doctors as scientists, but the reason we don’t try to balance the humours now is science. Major steps like Harvey, Snow, Pasteur, and so on were due to science, not faith or luck.
The doctors in the 1800s using bloodletting were most definitely not priests. They were medically trained (in the scientific tradition) practitioners of the day.
William Harvey disproved the basis of the practice in 1628, and the introduction of scientific medicine,la méthode numérique, allowed Pierre Charles Alexandre Louis to demonstrate that phlebotomy was entirely ineffective in the treatment of pneumonia and various fevers in the 1830s. Nevertheless, in 1840, a lecturer at the Royal College of Physicians would still state that “blood-letting is a remedy which, when judiciously employed, it is hardly possible to estimate too highly”,[13] and Louis was dogged by the sanguinary Broussais, who could recommend leeches fifty at a time.
You can of course argue that those doctors weren’t practicing true science, in which case this piece of history demonstrates the gulf between science theory and how it gets practiced in the real world.
Science of the day makes lots of mistakes. It does interesting useful things too, but there are lots of downsides. We should be honest about that.
And little more than a hundred years later antibiotics, blood transfusions and sterilisation were reliably saving lives. That’s science for you.
In fact in some areas we’re back to leeches – for a limited number of conditions based on firm scientific understanding of the causes of the condition and the leech life-cycle.
and in a mere few decades we’ve squandered many of the advantages we gained from antibiotics, through sheer stupidity in part fueled by faith in science.
You seem to be arguing that science has been overwhelmingly good, and you seem unwilling to acknowledge the massive downsides of science.
Climate change, peak oil, overpopulation, colonisation, environmental destruction, rapid species extinction, soil loss leading to imminent mass starvation, syndrome x, radiation poisoning….
I’m glad you have an appreciation of your life, and what science gives you, but your science-granted life comes at a cost, a massive cost. Let’s just be honest about that.
And whether how long science will continue to afford some of the individuals on the planet such a luxurious life remains to be seen.
I love 20 km range artillery munitions which after firing can be guided in flight and deploying over their target area, can direct multiple independent top penetrating submunitions downwards, destroying entire tank companys or multiple enemy troop positions.
I’m arguing that society is better off with science than without it, using myself as an example.
Medicine is just one example. When the world is back to a billion people with life expectancy in the low/mid double digits, and usually live entirely inside a 5 mile radius, I’ll agree with you.
“I’m arguing that society is better off with science than without it, using myself as an example.”
Yes, and sorry to be rude, but that’s just selfish. Are you willing to acknowledge the cost to other humans and the rest of life?
We are now truly in the realm of believe and faith. I don’t have the faith you do in science, I don’t believe that we will migrate off planet, and I honestly hope we don’t. We don’t deserve to go, and we’ll just fuck it up like we have here.
Not to mention that I’m seriously under-impressed by science right this very moment because my mobile broadband is so crap I have to restart it every other minute to get the connection back 😉
It’s like corporate PR for science isn’t it. You always emphasise the upsides, the benefits, the good feeling, the smiling faces; and you always downplay or deny the costs, the damage, the scarcity, the mass consumption, the resulting unhappiness.
Climate change, peak oil, overpopulation, colonisation, environmental destruction, rapid species extinction, soil loss leading to imminent mass starvation, syndrome x, radiation poisoning….
Those aren’t downsides of science but of our society which missuses science.
“Oh yeah we sent a probe to Mars. Sorta like the 1970′s except instead of a lander, we got something which can roll around at maybe 5km/h.
40 years of progress eh.”
Ummm, no. Unlike a lander the rover didn’t crash land but descended slowly into the atmosphere using high drag parachute which then detached leaving behind a rocket boosted , self-driving robotic sky crane which slowly winched the one ton rover to the martian surface before flying off so as not to crash land itself into the rover.
Unlike a lander the rover can move, take soil samples, test the atmosphere, take high resolution photographs and has a fucking laser on board which can burn into rocks and ‘sniff’ the resulting smoke/steam to note to composition.
And unlike most of the landers/rovers – this one successfully landed a mere 200 meters for it’s designated landig point intact and operational.
CV – you are so fucking scientifically illiterate that even my 3 year niece understands science better than.
“That’s not science, that’s just progress” you scoff.
…idiot…
We can argue politics sure, and I can very wrong, but one thing I know is science. science is my ‘thing’ you might even say and your total dismissal and misunderstanding couched in your false sense of superiority is not only totally misguided but also offensive.
Yeah you scientist types have regularly been right about this stuff, until new research turns up in 20 years time showing that you weren’t aware of something critical.
Then you call it “progress”.
Translation: DEEEEEEEERP
And I’m too tired, need to dig up old cluebatting of Andrei dealing with this particular “but science was wrongzors!” meme fully.
But anyhow, that’s the fucking nature of science, as we lack perfect knowledge there is always new stuff to be found that was missed in prior work (techniques/tools needed to be invented usually), that could overturn older assumptions and truths if there’s enough evidence. In many respects this flexibility to be wrong is what allows science to work in the first place. As we don;t have to wait for old scholars and their followers to die off, or be forced to cling to written texts as revealed, holy truths. Thus treating this as a negative just indicates possibly your own conservatism when it comes to change and uncertainty.
Looky see what the ANZ’s been up to in between getting rid of NZ jobs and those pesky marginal retail customers by ditching the black horse.
“The US Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) today announced the filing and simultaneous settlement of charges against Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd. (ANZ), an Australia-based financial services company, for exceeding speculative position limits in wheat and cotton futures contracts in trading on the Chicago Board of Trade and the Intercontinental Exchange US (ICE Futures US). The CFTC order requires ANZ to pay a $350,000 civil monetary penalty and cease and desist from further violations of the position limits provisions of the Commodity Exchange Act and CFTC regulations.”
That would be an investment banking activity, not retail or commercial. JP Morgan got a 600k slap also.
Is it possible that thanks to modern medicine that those with intolerances who would have previously died at a very young age, i.e less than 5, and therefore exited the gene pool with their genetic disabilities have survived and thrived whereas up to 100 years ago the birth and early mortality rate was horrific, with some families losing 90% or even all of their progeny.
Modern medicine plays some role, but not the major one I suggest.
– Meals with sufficient calories in a day
– As much clean water as you can use
– Sewerage systems
– Increasing household incomes
– Decent heating, shelter, and power
– Schooling for all children
– An end to child labour
Have accounted for 75% or more of the modern gain in life expectancy.
I’m puttin this one here coz I don’t want to flood the GSCB review article …
“Due diligence” is a term used for a number of concepts involving either an investigation of a business or person prior to signing a contract, or an act with a certain standard of care. It can be a legal obligation, but the term will more commonly apply to voluntary investigations. A common example of due diligence in various industries is the process through which a potential acquirer evaluates a target company or its assets for acquisition
HAS DUE DILIGENCE BEEN FOLLOWED BILL ENGLISH
It looks too me like America did it’s Due Diligence BILL, do they own us BILL?
Luckily they don’t want us that bad AYE BILL!
Selling Mighty River Woul’ve given us another 3 months max,
THEN WHAT BILL?
Why’d they call you morons JOHN, and tell ya ta read it again JOHN YA LISTENING?
While the “why” is interesting and clearly deserves a lot of analysis and attention, I think the most compelling element to this discussion are the implications of a future where traffic growth simply doesn’t happen.
Wow! Another extraordinary session on Campbell Live tonight over the Christchurch School Closures challenge.
They visited several schools where the data used by the Ministry is wildly in error.
Of 5 clusters of about 15 ? all schools had every building recorded as earthquake damaged – totally untrue.
One school had their jumping pit labelled as liquafaction.
One school is recorded with 50 buildings – has 5. Another 10 but have 15. Wrong rolls and trends in most.
John Campbell used the Ministry’s own documents to interview Parata but she wouldn’t front.
The CEO from the Ministry Mrs Longstone did front, and set sail on loud denial, deflection, over talk, avoidance and straight out mis-speak.
For those who want to get the measure of Mrs Longstone and school closures, this is a must.
Will link when available.
Yes, it was very good legwork journalism. The kind Campbell Live often does, and Son Of Close-Up won’t do, alas.
I wouldn’t be too hard on Longstone – she should never have been put in that position by Hekia Parata. It’s shameful when Ministers hide behind officials … and National have been doing it more and more.
If people want to know why National are losing votes, ask thousands of parents in Christchurch.
Some believe that Longstone was appointed over a year ago with her previous experience at introducing Charter Schools in Britain and the intent to do the same here. She is a hard nut who, like politicians, can deflect and obscure with the best of them. (Can’t spell obscurfate?)
I have no sympathy for her.
Minister hides, viewers take aim at the distraction instead, job done.
Try not to do exactly what National want you to do. Focus on the people we can remove at the ballot box. The generals are in the bunker, not on the front line.
I caught a bit of it – and winced at the thought of being in that position.
But then I remembered that this is exactly what happens when you fire “back office” “bean counters” and boo-row-krats. Data gets crunched badly, and overworked staff either don’t notice or realise it’s not their problem if it’s crap and they have other shit to do. Fuck ’em – you reap what you sow.
Actually, what she should have done was have the corrected data handy. Or at the very least said it’s being redone, and there is a window for the corrected data to be taken into account prior to the amalgamation/closing process being finalised. Even if in reality the decisions wouldn’t be affected.
Not sit there like a gimp insisting that it was valid.
Do you remember that turd that was interviewed over the leaky buildings in schools on close up some years ago during Hosking’s time and just sat there tittering like some kind of lobotomised chimp.
Jailed for two years in Russia for an anti Putin rap performed in a Christian orthodox cathedral. Pussy Riot are a Russian women band notorious for their defiance of authority and for covering their faces with ski masks.
Will French Islammist rapper, Mélanie Georgiades become the West’s version of ‘Pussy Riot’?
Mélanie Georgiades has in open defiance of French anti-hijab laws made an appearance on French TV station TF1 dressed in the hijab.
I think you are confusing two things here Jenny (actually the 2nd link also confuses it). She appeared on television wearing a hijab (headscarf) for which there is no law against wearing in public.
There is one that restricts it’s use in schools (passed in 2004): Loi en application du principe de laïcité, le port de signes ou de tenues manifestant une appartenance religieuse dans les écoles, collèges et lycées publics (An Act, as an application of the principle of the separation of church and state, on the wearing of symbols or garb which show religious affiliation in public primary and secondary schools).
Perhaps you are thinking of the recently (2010) passed law: Loi interdisant la dissimulation du visage dans l’espace public (An Act prohibiting concealment of the face in public space) which includes, amongst other things, the niqab (face veil) and the burqa (full body covering if it includes a face covering/veil).
I’m not sure I would describe her as an Islamist which has quite specific political overtones.
Students will be striking for the climate again on Friday, September 4: Students in Wellington are gearing up to strike from school this September 4th, to protest inaction on climate change. Their demands? That Government invests in a green COVID-19 response; that there is a just transition provided for ...
There’s no Covid on the Cook Islands. But isolation-free travel into New Zealand from the Cooks looks to be a long way off. The Prime Minister confirmed on Monday that Cabinet had considered draft text being worked on via officials which will become the basis of an agreement for quarantine-free travel ...
We should all know by now that Judith Collins, who has openly said she simply doesn’t care if wetlands are destroyed in the pursuit of swamp Kauri, isn’t exactly an environmentalist.In fact she has promised to roll back most of the small gains made by the Green Party in Government, ...
If you drive an electric car more than trivial distances between charges, you likely appreciate a state-of-charge meter (that is, what would be called a fuel-gauge in a petrol car) that is accurate. When it reports a range of 30 km, you do want to be sure it will actually ...
What to do to improve the public perception of the newly elected National party leader, when her performance so far has no doubt disappointed the expectations of her supporters? The answer is to get a National-supporting newspaper (the Herald) to organise a poll that could be guaranteed to provide an ...
Campaigns. Culture. Character. And perhaps most of all, Covid. Now the House has risen and politicians are hitting the road to pitch their woo to voters, those will be front of mind for the candidates.They were also where the new season of politics podcast Caucus began on Thursday. This year ...
There are only a few days left to make a submission on Statistics New Zealand's consultation on sex and gender identity statistical standards. This represents a really important step for recognising the very real diversity of gender, including people with no gender, and ensuring everyone has the option to see ...
Since finishing the Cranky Uncle vs. Climate Change book, I’ve frequently dipped into that 176-page clip-art library, reshaping the cartoons to fit the 1920 x 1080 pixel format for Powerpoint presentations. I’ve also adapted many of the cartoons for the Cranky Uncle video series. Over the last few weeks, a few people ...
NewsHub Nation has launched a new podcast, "Supplementary Question". Their inaugural episode is about the OIA, and asks "is our most important transparency law fit for purpose?" While they interviewed Justice Minister Andrew Little and Ombudsman Peter Boshier for this, there's not actually a lot of them in there, and ...
Remember the Ruataniwha dam? The Hawke's Bay Regional Council wasted $14 million trying to push this environmental disaster through before the Supreme Court ruled that the land swap it relied on with DoC was illegal. At the end of it, they wrote off the money and sold the existing consents ...
For years we've had a housing crisis in New Zealand, driven by immigration-driven population growth and the market refusing to build enough houses (and enough of the right sort of houses) to meet it. As a result, people can't get homes, while Boomer landlords leech away their income and parasitical ...
Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Poster of the Week... SkS Week in Review... Story of the Week... Drawdown Review 2020: How To Address Global Warming In A Responsible Manner Source: Project Drawdown Project Drawdown is a non-profit organization that relies ...
Dr Tim Chambers, Prof Nick Wilson, Jayne Richards, A/Prof Simon Hales, Dr Mike Joy, Prof Michael Baker (author affiliations*)Increasing water-related health threats, notably the waterborne campylobacter outbreak in Havelock North, have highlighted failings in NZ’s regulatory system for drinking water. In this blog we consider how the new Water ...
Yes, an election is in the offing – and we all know that elections can be polarising, as parties of the left and right square off against each other. But we should not allow our party and political allegiances to obscure the fact that, in a properly functioning democracy like ...
Dr Sommer Kapitan, Auckland University of Technology, and Dr Patrick van Esch, Auckland University of TechnologyThe Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill will limit vape sales at dairies and service stations to only three flavours, and make vaping illegal in smokefree areas. Vaping laws will be more ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Aug 2, 2020 through Sat, Aug 8, 2020Editor's ChoiceFive Years After Speaking Out on Climate Change, Pope Francis Sounds an Urgent AlarmThe encyclical ‘Laudato Si’ motivated many people ...
From some quarters, incessant scaremongering. From others, it’s a full-on tilt into touching the alarmist buttons a little too readily (uncertain times make for very captive audiences with this angle of attack). The (so-called) Opposition (and merely regarding them as that seems to be a far looser term now ...
National Party leader - Judith CollinsElections often bring out the best and worst in politicians. Some rise to the occasion and provide us with a clear vision for the future. While others wallow in resentment and controversy, over-relying on attack politics to try to attain the interest of voters.That’s been ...
The attempts to sabotage Corbyn's leadership seems likely to do more damage than Corbyn supposedly ever could have done, even if all the stories about him were true:I was reluctant to say anything but this is too important, the full story needs to be told.Don’t let anyone ever tell ...
Good day to everyone. I’ve been asked by Mr Thinks to come here and talk to you all about my concerns regarding the government response to Covid-19. We’ve been living through this pandemic for, what seems like, years. Years and years and years. Why else would the National Party have ...
‘Good Economics for Hard Times’ should be on your reading list. New Zealand does not have a Minister of Labour. It has Ministers of Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety but there is no minister with responsibility for the labour market. That responsibility was abolished in 2012 when ...
Back in the Kyoto era, the international climate change regime included a Clean Development Mechanism to fund emissions reduction projects in developing nations. Essentially someone would certify that a project - e.g. building a windfarm, or installing energy-efficient lightbulbs - would reduce emissions over and above "business-as-usual". The project would ...
As the classic MMP cartoon goes, just look at who is against it. Yesterday, the Hamilton City Council voted to use STV for its next two local body elections. The move was initially opposed by deputy mayor Geoff Taylor. The reason? Because a voting system which provided accurate representation and ...
On Wednesday evening (which in Parliament’s weird world technically was still Tuesday because urgency had been taken and so time stood still), MPs united to remove a pretty terrible piece of law from our statute books. No real fanfare or fireworks accompanied this action. Indeed, I didn’t even know about it ...
By Geoffrey Miller Prominent refugee advocate Murdoch Stephens says he is disappointed by Judith Collins’ reaction to Immigration New Zealand’s decision to grant refugee status to Kurdish-Iranian writer Behrouz Boochani. Judith Collins told media last month that “there’s a lot of concern in New Zealand about what they see as ...
Hello all. Judith here to talk about how National are going to take the election in September. The National Party prides itself its unity and cohesion. We are working together to deliver for New Zealanders. First of all, ee are a strong team. We are a very strong team. Our ...
Parliament has just begun the adjournment debate, signalling the effective end of this Parliament. So it seems like an appropriate time to assess Labour's term in office. Unfortunately, its a pretty dismal assessment. Labour campaigned on one thing: change. Not just a change in who got the top jobs and ...
Our climate change policies are insufficient to achieve our goal of carbon neutrality by 2050, according to independent assessor Climate Action Tracker: New Zealand won’t be carbon neutral by 2050 without much stronger policies, says an independent analysis by Climate Action Tracker. The non-profit highlighted a lack of active ...
That was clearly a huge explosion. Just after the explosion, we see a cloud of ‘fog’ moving outwards at high speed. This is a shockwave, rather similar to that which causes a sonic boom. The ‘fog’ is caused by water condensing from the atmosphere in areas of intense low pressure ...
Can we postpone this year’s election? Quite frankly, the political parties don’t seem ready for it, and aren’t about to offer voters the necessary policy choices for the unprecedented times we’re in. We’ve ended up with a campaign focused on scandal, personality and leadership, with a policy void that’s worse ...
It is the last sitting day of Parliament, and the last question time before the House is dissolved. So, are there any questions about the damning findings of the Hit and Run inquiry, and how the government plans to bring the military back under democratic control? Of course not. ...
Property speculator - John KeyThe National Party must be in dire straits to have to rely on John Key to campaign on their behalf. Not only has the former PM been in the news claiming the recently released unemployment figures aren’t accurate, the fool has also been promoting the opening ...
Nothing Too Drastic: Few would dispute that the Left, today, are few in number. Is their failure to make the public aware of and act upon the manifest failures of the present system attributable to their lack of active energy and intelligence? Or, is it simply because the Left’s ideas ...
by Don Franks This talk was given to the Wellington Anti Capitalist Alliance, fifteen years ago. The ultimate weapons of mass destruction so far seen on this planet have been used just twice, 60 years ago this month. August 6 and August 9 1945 witnessed the US atomic bombing ...
After I noticed that my name had been taken yet again in vain by my friendly antagonist Tom Hunter over at No Minister, I went over to see what the fuss was about. Nothing much, but then I discovered a post about the Operation Burnham Inquiry by Psycho Milt. I ...
The COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020 was extended today, until December 1st or the tenth sitting day following the resumption of Parliament after the election. It seems like a necessary extension. While we currently have eradicated the virus in New Zealand, it is still banging at the door, and ...
One of the government's key policies - extracted by NZ First as part of its coalition agreement - is the "Provincial Growth Fund": $1 billion a year spent on creating jobs in rural New Zealand. Yesterday the Auditor-General issued a report on the fund, finding that it lacks transparency, and ...
The Warehouse, one of New Zealand's biggest retailers, has decided to stop selling coal. Good. Coal is a dirty, polluting fossil fuel, and the less of it we have out there, the better. Retailers choosing not to sell it sends a clear message that this is not a fuel we ...
The labour market statistics have been released, and they show that unemployment actually dropped last quarter. All told, there are 111,000 unemployed - 15,000 fewer than when the government took office. But before anyone thinks that the pandemic hasn't put people out of work, remember that this is for ...
Judy KavanaghI’m OK with wearing a CovidCard. But are you? There’s no point me doing it alone.The author modelling a (fake) CovidCard. I didn’t know much about the CovidCard proposal until I read Dave’s latest blog post. You would wear the card visibly on your person. It ...
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nzWhy can’t I use the battery from my electric car ...
As many good things come in threes (as the saying goes), we are happy to announce a third partnership between Skeptical Science and other websites. Fakebook.eco in Brazil is joining Klimafakten.de in Germany and Nauka o Klimacie in Poland to leverage translated rebuttal material and to make the information readily available in other ...
This interview on RNZ with Ross Tucker, the scientist who headed a review of transgender athletes playing in women’s rugby, discusses the findings of the review and what it means for women in sports. The review that World Rugby undertook had a broad range of independent experts and included a ...
Siouxsie WilesThe restrictions in place for metropolitan Melbourne now are in some ways stricter than those that were in force during New Zealand’s COVID-19 lockdown. A curfew is in place and most people have to wear masks when they leave their home – neither of which happened in New ...
On Friday the Hit and Run inquiry delivered a devastating report which found that NZDF had systematically misled Ministers over civilian deaths. The report called into question civilian control of the military (and indeed, military control of the military), a fundamental principle of our democracy. So you'd expect our politicians ...
Let's Do This Again: What else can Jacinda do in a political environment so bereft of imagination and courage but seek a continuance? If she trades upon the extraordinary personal qualities that she has, miraculously, carried with her into the office of Prime Minister, then I, for one, will offer ...
How corrupt are the New Zealand Police? This corrupt: On 10 February 2019, Police attended a family harm incident. The suspect attempted to run the attending officers over in a driveway with his car, narrowly missing them, before fleeing the scene. A short pursuit followed, ending when the suspect stopped ...
Parliament's triennial Review of Standing Orders was released today, and it contains a number of welcome, if minor, improvements. The ones that caught my are: A move to encourage "pre-legislative engagement" - the government consulting widely on legislation before it is introduced - by promising easier passage (e.g. with ...
Lauren Vargo, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of WellingtonGlaciers around the world are melting — and for the first time, we can now directly attribute annual ice loss to climate change. We analysed two years in which glaciers in New Zealand melted the most in at least four ...
Caroline Shaw, Anja MizdrakE-bikes are everywhere. Sales are booming and predicted to overtake sales of new cars in a few years. There were three times as many e-bikes and e-scooters imported into NZ in 2019 alone as there are e-cars in the entire country. You can’t go out in ...
New Zealand First is facing a difficult struggle to get re-elected, but Josh Van Veen, who was once a researcher for Winston Peters, argues that there is still a very significant section of cultural conservatives who oppose mass immigration and political correctness and might yet be won back over to ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Karin Kirk Many Americans these days seem unable to avoid controversy on practically any topic, so why not embrace the discord and wade into the especially volatile arena of nuclear energy? Advocates claim it’s the only way to meet global climate goals, ...
Can we trust New Zealand’s military? There must now be serious doubt, given the landmark report released on Friday concluding the investigation into allegations made in the book Hit and Run by Nicky Hager and Jon Stephenson about a 2010 SAS killing raid in Afghanistan. The most recent Colmar Brunton ...
In New Zealand, we've just had the report of the Hit and Run inquiry, which found that a New Zealand led raid had accidentally killed civilians, including a child. meanwhile, around the same time, the British SAS was conducting its own raids in Afghanistan, and theirs were a hell of ...
In addition to establishing a process for setting emissions reductions plans, the Zero Carbon Act established a process for managing the risks of climate change. The first part of this is the preparation of regular risk assessments, looking at the risks to our economy, society, environment, and ecology. The first ...
Over on The spinoff, Amnesty International's Meg de Ronde has a response to Friday's release of the Hit and Run report. And in response to Attorney-General David Parker's claim that the government was being "transparent" by releasing the report, its titled "we shouldn’t have to work this hard to get ...
Story of the Week... Opinion of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Poster of the Week... SkS Week in Review... Story of the Week... Rising Seas Could Menace Millions Beyond Shorelines, Study FindsAs climate change raises sea levels, storm surges and high tides will ...
There's an election next month, so you'd be expecting political parties to be telling us what they stand for and what they'd do if they'd win. But while the Greens have given us a detailed policy platform, and National has talked about roads and austerity, Labour, currently leading the polls ...
"Who's youse accusin' of innference?" Without the timely intervention of a team of top American political consultants and campaign experts, Boris Yeltsin would never have won his second term as President of the Russian Federation. The Russians waited 20 years to return the favour.WHEN IT COMES to the disinformation game, ...
As polling day in the American presidential election draws closer, things are looking bad for Donald Trump. The polls show that he is tracking well behind his Democrat rival. Most people assume that the President will be striving might and main to avoid what looks increasingly likely to be a ...
Our health professionals do an amazing job. Image credit: Wikipedia – Cardiac surgery. Finally, I have got back to these rankings. A long period in hospital and computer problems meant the June 2020 rankings were abandoned. Now, with a new personal defibrillator implanted in my chest and a new hard ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, July 26 through Sat, Aug 1, 2020Editor's ChoiceThe four types of climate denier, and why you should ignore them allThe shill, the grifter, the egomaniac and the ideological ...
Over the last few days, reports have emerged of people travelling from New Zealand and testing positive for Covid-19 upon arrival at their destination. First in South Korea and now in Australia. What might these positive tests mean?They’re false-positives As Toby Morris and I have explained before, there are ...
Former National Minister - Wayne MappYou could tell that the Hit and Run book by investigative journalists Nicky Hager and Jon Stephenson was right on the money by the way former National Party Minister of Defence, Wayne Mapp, reacted to its now largely vindicated claims.Even though the recent inquiry into ...
So, the Hit and Run inquiry has reported back, and found some appalling shit at NZDF and NZSIS. And while they quibble a few of the details - the name of a dead child - they basicly uphold Hager and Stephenson's version of events. The SAS went to those villages. ...
We are failing to think though the interdependencies in an economy. We miss economist Bryan Philpott (1921-2000). I miss him personally – we used to have such great discussions – but this column is about how the nation misses his economic experience and wisdom. We tend to ...
Michelle Boag - LeakerThe Heron report (PDF) was released yesterday, and it was a bit disappointing to say the least. It correctly found that former National Party president Michelle Boag and National Party MP Hamish Walker were politically motivated in leaking peoples private medical information, but didn’t look further into ...
Adam Smith, Massey UniversityA recent global assessment of shark populations at 371 coral reefs in 58 countries found no sharks at almost 20% of reefs and alarmingly low numbers at many others. The study, which involved over 100 scientists under the Global FinPrint project, gave New Zealand a good ...
It's campaign time! The official countdown to Election Day is underway, with Labour supporters crowding into Auckland's Town Hall for our 2020 Campaign Launch. We recap some of the highlights below ...
It's campaign time! The official countdown to Election Day is underway, with Labour supporters crowding into Auckland's Town Hall for our 2020 Campaign Launch. We recap some of the highlights below ...
We've announced that we will expand the Flexi-wage programme to support up to 40,000 more people into work, or to help them start their own business. It's yet another way we're helping keep our economy moving by getting people into work and training. Read on to find out more ...
Business subsidy of on average $7500, and up to $22,000, to hire unemployed New ZealandersUp to 40,000 jobs to be supported by $311 million investment in keeping New Zealanders off the unemployment benefitRing-fenced fund to help unemployed start their own business ...
This week was the last of the 52nd Parliament: a major milestone for our Government and a great opportunity to look back at all the progress we've made for New Zealanders. This week, we increased support for businesses to take on apprentices, improved access to hospital care in Northland, and ...
Kia orana and kia ora koutou katoa. It is a privilege to be able to speak in this adjournment debate and to mark and acknowledge the fact that we are now two years and 10 months into the conclusion of a parliamentary term that has been extraordinary in so many ...
On 1 August, we marked the anniversary of Jacinda Ardern becoming the Leader of the Labour Party. On that day in 2017, Leader Andrew Little nominated Jacinda Ardern to succeed him and lead the party to victory.Now, three years on, we look back at some of the key moments ...
With the June 2020 quarter showing underemployment increasing, the Green Party is calling for a Guaranteed Minimum Income and an increase to the abatement threshold to ensure everyone has a dignified income. ...
We went hard and we went early in our health response to COVID-19, and we did everything we could to cushion the economic impact too. In fact, we can fill every letter of the alphabet with the steps we took to fight COVID-19 and ensure we were in a position ...
Investing in our people, backing businesses, and upgrading infrastructure and housing throughout the country - it's been another week of progress for New Zealanders as we deliver our plan to recover and rebuild. ...
July was another busy month, packed with key investments aimed at progressing our economic recovery as we rebuild New Zealand. We extended support for businesses, helped create jobs through local infrastructure projects, and kept working to clean up our waterways so Kiwis can access safe clean water. Check out the ...
The Green Party is calling for the Defence Force Chiefs in place between 2010-2017 to front up and explain how dishonesty, process and policy failures within the Defence Force led to ‘a series of incorrect statements in briefings to ministers and public releases’ regarding alleged breaches of international torture prevention ...
Thanks to our strong health response, New Zealand’s economy is more open than many other countries. But as COVID continues to surge around the world, the economic consequences of the virus will continue to be a challenge, which is why we have a detailed plan to help New Zealand bounce ...
Thanks to our strong health response, New Zealand’s economy is more open than many other countries. But as COVID continues to surge around the world, the economic consequences of the virus will continue to be a challenge, which is why we have a detailed plan to help New Zealand bounce ...
The Government is stepping up action to deal with environmentally harmful products – including plastic packaging, tyres and e-waste – before they become waste. ...
The Green Party are ensuring that New Zealanders who were overseas when COVID-19 hit will not be charged for the cost of isolation or quarantine if they return home to live. ...
It's been another week of creating jobs, supporting local businesses, and investing in infrastructure up and down the country - all of which are helping to keep our economy moving post-COVID-19. ...
Law changes to end tenure review and provide for better management of Crown pastoral lands in the South Island high country were considered by Parliament today with the first reading of the Crown Pastoral Land Reform Bill says Minister for Land Information, Eugenie Sage. ...
The Green Party have secured legislative amendments in a bill expected to pass third reading this week, to ensure better rules for school teachers and staff, so they can de-escalate children with diverse needs and cognitive differences, such as autism, rather than using unnecessary and often traumatising force. ...
An iwi-Crown approach programme to restore the Raukūmara forest on the East Coast of the North Island and boost employment opportunities for whānau, particularly rangatahi/young people, will receive $34 million funding, Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage has announced. “Raukūmara Pae Maunga is a partnership with Te Whānau-ā-Apanui, Ngāti Porou, and ...
Government agencies and partners are working closer together to provide more Māori Housing through the Te MAIHI o te Whare Māori – the Māori and Iwi Housing Innovation Framework for Action (MAIHI). MAIHI is a kaupapa Māori approach that drives a system change to give effect and impact on Māori ...
The Pacific Islands Forum Economic Ministers Meeting (FEMM) begins today and will focus on the major economic and social impacts of COVID-19 on the Pacific. FEMM is an important congregation of Economic Ministers and senior officials from around the region, and for the first time, the annual meeting will be ...
Cabinet has approved a formal apology and ex gratia payment to former soldier George Nepata, announced Defence Minister Ron Mark. This payment is to recognise the New Zealand Defence Force’s failure to provide Mr Nepata with a safe system of work in April 1989 when, as a result of an ...
A report undertaken by Ministerial Services into Iain Lees-Galloway’s ministerial expenditure has found no evidence of any inappropriate transactions or spending. Ministerial Services undertook a line by line review of all his expenditure, including staff and spouse expenses for the period 1 January 2019 to 30 June 2020. “I commissioned ...
Managed isolation charges for returnees will come into force from 12.01am Tuesday 11th August, after they passed their last cabinet milestone today, Housing Minister Megan Woods said. “The new charging system balances the rights of New Zealanders to return home and helps reduce pressure on the managed isolation and quarantine ...
The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Henry Puna have welcomed the completion of phase one in the establishment of a travel bubble between New Zealand and the Cook Island. Negotiations on the text of an ‘Arrangement to Facilitate Quarantine-Free Travel ...
The Government has launched a new online, phone and onsite service to help New Zealanders connect to a range of employment support and products for workers and businesses affected by COVID-19, announced Minister of Education Chris Hipkins and Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni. Connected.govt.nz is a one-stop-shop for jobseekers, ...
Security guards contracted to the Ministry of Social Development will be paid at least the Living Wage from next month supporting the Government’s commitment towards fair pay and employment conditions, announced Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni. “MSD was among the first government agencies to pay its employees the living ...
The Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage today launched Te Mana o te Taiao, the Aotearoa New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy - a way forward that envisions Aotearoa New Zealand as a place where ecosystems are healthy and resilient, and people embrace the natural world. “Many of New Zealand’s plants and wildlife species ...
“Pacific languages, cultures and identity are essential to the health, wellbeing and lifetime success of our Pacific peoples and their communities in Aotearoa. The strength and resilience of Pacific Aotearoa is not only vital to their own prosperity but integral to the prosperity of all New Zealanders, and is particularly ...
· $38 million to help schools cover unexpected costs related to COVID-19 · $69 million upgrade for online learning · $107 million contingency funding to support school construction suppliers facing additional costs due to the lockdown. The Government is releasing $214 million from the COVID-19 response and recovery fund to ...
Despite the Government installing safety upgrades around the country, people should still take care around rail crossings, said Transport Minister Phil Twyford launching Rail Safety Week. Phil Twyford said installing safety infrastructure is crucial, but we are encouraging people to be more careful around trains too. “We’re making good progress ...
The Government is providing a cash injection to help Palmerston North City Council complete a programme to provide 78 social housing units for vulnerable tenants. The $4.7 million to build 28 units in the Papaioea Place redevelopment comes from the $3 billion set aside for infrastructure in the Government’s COVID-19 ...
A pest free Banks Peninsula/Te Pātaka o Rākaihautū is one step closer with a $5.11 million boost to accelerate this project and create jobs, announced Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage in Canterbury today. “This is a game changer for this ambitious project to restore the native wildlife and plants on Ōtautahi/Christchurch’s doorstep ...
A Government grant of $6.4 million will expand the Pettigrew Arena in Taradale with new indoor courts of national standard. “The project is likely to take 18 months with approximately 300 people employed through the process,” Grant Robertson said. “The expansion will increase the indoor court space up to 11 ...
The Far North tourist destination of Mangonui is to receive Government funding to improve waterfront infrastructure, open up access to the harbour and improve water quality, Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones has announced. A total of $6.5 million from the $3 billion set aside in the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund ...
The Government has re-affirmed its commitment to supporting the hosting of the ICC Women’s Cricket World Cup, which the ICC has delayed from 2021 to 2022. “This is obviously a disappointing decision for cricket players and fans around the world and for the White Ferns and their supporters here at ...
Cyclists and walkers will now have a safer way to get around Taupō, Tūrangi, and between Hamilton and Cambridge, with funding for shared paths and Te Awa River Ride, Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter announced today. “The Te Awa River Ride is the latest part of massive growth ...
Six major cycle routes will be completed in Christchurch thanks to funding from the Government’s investment in shovel-ready infrastructure as part of the COVID-19 recovery Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter announced today. $125 million will be invested to kick-start construction and fund the completion of the following cycleway ...
Plans are underway for a brand new state-of-the-art hub for Whanganui’s justice and social agencies, following confirmation the ageing Whanganui Central Police Station is to be replaced. Police Minister Stuart Nash has announced $25 million in new infrastructure spending to improve facilities for the wider community, and for staff who ...
An adjustment payment has been made to Waikato-Tainui and Ngāi Tahu under the relativity mechanisms in their 1995 and 1997 Treaty of Waitangi settlements, Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Andrew Little announced today. The latest payments to Waikato-Tainui and Ngāi Tahu are $2,700,000 and $2,600,000 respectively to ensure the ...
Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and Transport Minister Phil Twyford today kicked off the start of the Auckland NZ Upgrade Programme rail projects which will support over 400 jobs and help unlock our biggest city. Both ministers marked the start of enabling works on the third main rail line project ...
The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) investment of $3.78 million in Wairoa will create much needed economic stimulus and jobs, Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau announced today. PGF projects announced today include: $200,000 loan to Nuhaka Kiwifruit Holdings Ltd (operated by Pine Valley Orchard Ltd) to increase the productivity ...
Tenants in public and Māori housing may be benefiting from their own affordable renewable energy in future – a fund to trial renewable energy technology for public and Māori housing has today been announced by Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods and Associate Minister for Housing (Māori Housing) Nanaia Mahuta. ...
Hokianga will receive $2.7 million to redevelop four of its wharves and upgrade its water supply, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. Far North District Council will receive $1.8 million from the Provincial Growth Fund for the work on the wharves. “The work will include the construction of ...
A $350 million Residential Development Response Fund is being established to support the residential construction sector and to minimise the economic impact from COVID-19, the Housing Minister Dr Megan Woods has announced. “The Residential Development Response Fund will help to progress stalled or at-risk developments that support our broader housing ...
As part of a broader plan to divert waste from landfill, the Government today announced $10.67 million for new infrastructure as part of the Resource Recovery Network across the Auckland region. “This key investment in Auckland’s community recycling network is part of the Government’s Infrastructure Reference Group ‘shovel ready’ projects ...
The Government is investing $45 million in the first stage of an ambitious urban development project for Tauranga that will employ up to 250 people and help the region grow, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford announced today. Phil Twyford says the funding has been allocated out of the $3 billion ...
Getting low-emission trucks on the road is a step closer with investment in infrastructure to support hydrogen vehicles, the Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods has announced. The Infrastructure Reference Group has provisionally approved $20 million for New Plymouth company Hiringa Energy to establish a nationwide network of hydrogen-fuelling stations. ...
A new trades training centre to upskill the local workforce will be built in the South Waikato town of Tokoroa through funding from the Government’s COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund, Education Minister Chris Hipkins and Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones have announced. The Government will contribute $10.84 million from ...
The Government has agreed to repeal part of the Oranga Tamariki Act subsequent children provisions, Minister for Children Tracey Martin announced today. “There are times when children need to go into care for their safety – the safety and care of children must always be paramount,” Minister Martin said. “But ...
A $1.5 million boost to grow primary mental health and addiction services for Pacific peoples in Auckland, Hamilton and Canterbury will lead to better outcomes for Pacific communities, Associate Health Minister Jenny Salesa says. Pasifika Futures has received funding to expand services through The Fono, Aotearoa New Zealand’s largest by ...
Twenty-two projects to boost the sustainability and climate resilience of New Zealand’s food and fibres sector have been announced today by Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. The $18m funding will deliver practical knowledge to help farmers and growers use their land more sustainably, meet environmental targets, remain prosperous, and better understand ...
Employment Minister Willie Jackson welcomes an initiative that assists employers to get mature workers into New Zealand small businesses. The disadvantages that older people face in the workplace was highlighted in the whole of Government Employment Strategy. In order to address this, a Mature Workers Toolkit has been developed and ...
New Zealand and Australia reaffirmed today the need for the closest possible collaboration as they tackle a global environment shaped by COVID-19, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters said. “In these challenging times, our close collaboration with Australia is more vital than ever,” said Mr Peters. Mr Peters and his Australian ...
The recovery and forensic examination of the loader driven by survivor Russell Smith means the underground team are now moving into an area of the Pike River Mine that has not been seen since the explosion, Minister Responsible for Pike River Re-entry Andrew Little said. “The fifth and last robot ...
The Government has confirmed a community-wide trial of CovidCard technology as it explores options for COVID-19 contact tracing. “Effective contact tracing is a vital part of the COVID-19 response,” Minister of Health Chris Hipkins said. “While manual processes remain the critical component for contact tracing, we know digital solutions can ...
The government is proposing changes to aquaculture legislation to improve the process for allocating and transferring aquaculture assets to iwi. Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash has introduced the Maori Commercial Aquaculture Claims Settlement Amendment Bill to Parliament. It proposes a limited new discretionary power for Te Ohu Kaimoana Trustee Limited (ToKM). ...
The Minister of Justice has today introduced the Family Court (Supporting Children in Court) Legislation Bill – the next step in the ongoing programme of work to fix the failed 2014 Family Court reforms led by then Justice Minister Judith Collins. The Bill arises from the report of the Independent ...
With more than 1,000 local businesses on its books, MyHR saw firsthand the pressure the Covid-19 fallout put on New Zealand’s SMEs, as well as having its own business model tested to the limit.New Zealand’s Covid-19 lockdown had a seismic effect on human resources departments. In order to stay afloat ...
In an interview on Monday, Ms Collins said: We will not let DHBs limit or allocate health treatment based on race, which is what we’ve seen Labour allow some DHBs to do. That is really important that we cannot have that. It has to be on need and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Caroline Gargett, NHMRC Leadership Fellow and Head of Women’s Health Theme, The Ritchie Centre, Hudson Institute of Medical Research, Hudson Institute Endometriosis is a debilitating, chronic condition that affects 1 in 10 women worldwide. It occurs when tissue which has similar properties ...
National leader Judith Collins says allegations surrounding the party's board member Roger Bridge is a matter for the party to deal with internally. ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is calling for submissions on the Land Transport (Drug Driving) Amendment Bill. The bill would establish a new random roadside oral fluid testing regime. The regime would sit alongside the existing compulsory ...
Have politicians lost control of big ratepayer-owned companies - or just failed to use their powers to keep them accountable to the public? Tim Murphy reports on an 'unvarnished' review of Auckland Council and its corporatised functions. The deepest inquiry yet into how Auckland's five council-owned companies are working finds major ...
The release today by the Problem Gambling Foundation of a report commissioned of NZIER that suggests gambling on gaming machines somehow costs jobs in the retail sector is nothing but tragic dog whistle politics. It’s an odd thing for a charity ...
jesseforparliament@gmail.com Facebook.com/JesseForParliament Jesseforparliament.nz (under construction) WELLINGTON – Last Saturday, the race for the Wellington Central electorate saw a new entrant, as Victoria University student Jesse Richardson announced ...
Merv Lee-Mather, Merv Thomas and Merv Manhire gather to discuss the most pressing issues of election 2020.With 39 days to go until New Zealand goes to the polls, talkback caller “Merv” has lit up the election campaign, delivering a deeply unmellow curtain-raiser to the National Party’s Auckland Central candidate selection. ...
Under New Zealand’s Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009 (the Act), businesses must consider risk profiling of their customers and clients. The profiling is for the purpose of identifying those clients that present ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meagan Tyler, Senior lecturer, RMIT University The COVID-19 crisis has thrown up an array of new habits and coping mechanisms. But the fetishisation, and even sexualisation, of prominent health officials is one of our more unexpected pandemic pastimes. Is this trend equality ...
The New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is calling on the Government to follow advice from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and temporarily cut Goods and Services Tax (GST). Taxpayers' Union Economic Advisor Karan Menon says, “Last year, the ...
Latest from the Beehive It’s been a quiet day in the Beehive with nothing particularly potent to emerge – in terms of lifting our general wellbeing – than the news we may soon be able to holiday in the Cook Islands. The PM’s press statement kicked off with the revelation ...
I grasped the magnitude of this pandemic a few weeks before everybody else. I didn’t foresee the great toilet paper panic, but I did stockpile pasta and canned food. My wife and colleagues rolled eyes at me and said I was paranoid, but I only had ...
The first episode of the all new Alice Snedden’s Bad News asks why migrant sex workers aren’t legally allowed to operate in New Zealand.Sex work was made legal in New Zealand in 2003, but not for everyone – it remains one of the only jobs migrants aren’t allowed to do. ...
$100m in government funding for climate change protections and infrastructure comes at a welcome time where shovel-ready projects are needed to help New Zealand bounce back against Covid-19 and create sustainable jobs for Kiwis in the quarrying sector, ...
National wants to establish a police unit to disrupt gangs, tighten border controls to prevent drugs entering the country and expand the use of alcohol and drug courts. ...
A recent survey of 830 Kiwi workers by leading recruitment agency Frog Recruitment showed that the lessons from the first lockdown have been well learned, with more than 77 percent feeling better equipped to manage their own wellbeing at work should ...
Sales and discounts hook people in, but do they really live up to the hype? A recent survey found some supermarket products were on promotion so often that shoppers risked being misled about the savings they were really getting. Consumer NZ’s Belinda Castles explains what they found and why it’s ...
Traditional 'tough on crime' policies are mixed with rehabilitation initiatives in National's newly revealed law and order plans for the upcoming election The National Party has announced it would scrap the Government’s target to reduce the prison population, instead reviving its “social investment” approach across the justice system in a bid ...
Students in Wellington are gearing up to strike from school this September 4th, to protest inaction on climate change. Their demands? That Government invests in a green COVID-19 response; that there is a just transition provided for workers in ...
The New Zealand Game Animal Council welcomes the inclusion of valued introduced species into Te Mana o Te Taiao - Aotearoa New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy 2020 . “Valued introduced species like deer, tahr, chamois and wild pigs have been here ...
A group of Kāpiti Coast business owners are at odds with the district council over a project that they say could harm rather than improve local business. ...
Linda Burgess reviews Curtis Sittenfeld’s much-anticipated novel, Rodham. I read Rodham a while ago now but I put off writing about it. I was waiting. Waiting for what exactly? Well, waiting to see if they do what Trump kept insisting they do, back then, when the world seemed what we nostalgically ...
The 52nd Parliament will be dissolved this week, formally marking the first step towards holding the general election. The public is invited to witness this significant, triennial event which will take place on the Parliament forecourt on Wednesday 12 ...
The Public Service Association welcomes the decision by FIRST Union to join the campaign for an Aotearoa Wellbeing Commitment, a policy proposal that all New Zealanders should receive services like healthcare, education, public transport and broadband ...
An increased focus on ‘talking about it’ will only help if we’re honest with ourselves and each other about what is driving self-inflicted deaths in this country, writes Carla na Nagara.There has always been debate about whether talking about suicide is responsible or constructive. And since the Covid-19 alert level ...
“The racing industry continues to get special treatment as the Government makes ad hoc decisions at the border,” according to ACT Leader David Seymour. “Racing has been given significant taxpayer funds through NZ First’s slush fund and now ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Bradfield, Research Fellow in Behavioural Neuroscience, University of Technology Sydney As COVID-19 lockdowns were introduced, we all suddenly had to find new ways of doing things. Schooling shifted online, meetings moved to Zoom, workplaces brought in new measures and even social ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Denis Muller, Senior Research Fellow, Centre for Advancing Journalism, University of Melbourne Media coverage of disasters follows a broadly similar trajectory, even though the disasters themselves might take very different forms. The COVID-19 crisis in Victoria is no exception. Although it is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Madeline Taylor, Lecturer, University of Sydney New South Wales planning authorities relied on flawed evidence when backing a highly controversial coal seam gas project that may endanger critical water supplies, farmland and threatened species, our analysis has found. Early next month, the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Noetel, Senior Lecturer in Psychology, Australian Catholic University In response to COVID-19, almost every university has scrambled to move its teaching online. To do this, academics have been choosing between two approaches: live videoconferencing using tools such as Zoom, or pre-recording ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Doran, Associate professor/Deputy head of school, UNSW The stock market is not the economy. This old and playful maxim is typically not true: often the stock market is a good proxy for the economy and a very good indication of what ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Isaac Gross, Lecturer in Economics, Monash University The government has widely touted its support for small businesses – most notably the provision of loans subsidised by the Reserve Bank. In its economic update on Friday the Reserve Bank talked up its low-cost ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Marie Hadley, Associate Lecturer in Law, University of Newcastle The Australian Copyright Agency has licensed an Indigenous artwork for a custom tattoo. It is the first instance of tattoo licensing for the agency, and perhaps Australia at large. The agency granted a ...
Welcome to Election Live for August 11, bringing you the latest on election 2020 and other breaking news. For key dates in the election seasonclick here. For all you need to know about the cannabis referendum click here. For the assisted dying referendum click here. Policy launches soon. Get ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Concern from the Cook Islands over travel bubble, inquiry clears Iain Lees-Galloway of any spending impropriety, and Oranga Tamariki facing further damaging report findings.A draft agreement on a travel bubble with the Cook Islands is close to being finalised, the ...
A bizarre allegation on the TV news and a scolding of party members by a top official set the scene for a highly charged National Party candidate selection The National Party has chosen Emma Mellow as its candidate for the Auckland Central seat with less than four weeks until early voting begins, ...
Those most impacted by Covid-19 are those who can least afford to weather it, write Professor Merryn Gott and Dr Jackie Robinson Emerging evidence from overseas regarding the clear link between poverty and Covid-19 is as predictable as it is heartbreaking. People living in the most deprived areas of England and Wales ...
An essay, and memoir, by Dunedin writer Talia Marshall on fighting the White Power bitches at school Sophia turns up at my new place by happy accident. We haven’t seen each other properly for over 20 years but we’re friends on Facebook. One of the reasons I like Facebook, apart ...
A lack of central government policy on climate change adaptation has left councils treading water as they attempt to engage with threatened communities. ...
Since a nationwide amalgamation in 2017 there have been mass resignations at the SPCA, claims of bullying and employment dispute payouts. Now an online petition calling for a government inquiry has gained nearly 1000 signatures in five days A petition for a government inquiry to be launched into the transparency and accountability ...
A bizarre allegation on the TV news and a scolding of party members by a top official set the scene for a highly charged National Party candidate selection The National Party has chosen Emma Mellow as its candidate for the Auckland Central seat with less than four weeks until early voting begins, ...
In announcing the company's full-year results on Monday, Contact Energy CEO Mike Fuge warned of a "turbulent time" for the electricity market amid the exit of Tiwai Point. ...
After struggling with depression while recovering from a devastating knee injury, Tactix midcourter Erikana Pedersen wants to take her career in a new direction to help others. Last year was the “crappiest" of Erikana Pedersen’s 26 revolutions around the sun. But this year may turn out to be the best. Pedersen's year of ...
The polls and pundits are predicting the demise of NZ First leader Winston Peters and his party, but he has no plans to surrender or retire from politics, Dileepa Fonseka writes. ...
Those most impacted by Covid-19 are those who can least afford to weather it, write Professor Merryn Gott and Dr Jackie Robinson Emerging evidence from overseas regarding the clear link between poverty and Covid-19 is as predictable as it is heartbreaking. People living in the most deprived areas of England and Wales ...
A mining company director demands Newsroom take down a story on rehabilitation conditions agreed with DoC for a former site on conservation land National leader Judith Collins' husband is threatening defamation action against Newsroom over a story about a West Coast mine site that the conservation department allowed to be left ...
Te Arawhiti is bypassing Te Rūnanganui o Ngāti Hikairo to try and get Ngāti Hikairo claims included in the Ngāti Maniapoto Settlement. Ngāti Maniapoto have set up two meetings in Kāwhia ‘with Ngāti Hikairo’ to consult on their Treaty settlements. ...
Welcome to the third edition of Memebers of parliament, a politics column for people who just want the memes.Let’s just get to it, shall we?Buses – YESBuses. They’re back. Winston Peters has had his giant face on a big ol’ bus for a while now, but he surely won’t be ...
The New Zealand government’s aid in developing countries is not going to projects where it is needed most, says Oxfam, according to a new report published by agency today. Less than two percent of aid spending went to activities focused solely on ...
The Provincial Growth Fund is meant to fund… growth… in the provinces. So why is it building a huge new racetrack in one of New Zealand’s biggest cities? Because the racing industry seems to get whatever it wants, argues Duncan Greive. Yesterday morning saw a blazing RNZ report that the Provincial ...
Long awaited changes to tenancy law have been made - are they really the landlord-killers that some make them out to be? Last week the Government passed under urgency a series of big changes to New Zealand's tenancy laws. The reforms of the 1986 Residential Tenancies Act have been in ...
Tonight the National Party has selected Emma Mellow to stand in the Auckland Central electorate for the 2020 General Election. Emma Mellow replaces retiring MP Nikki Kaye who first won the seat from Labour in 2008. Emma leads a team of communications ...
Pacific Media Watch Newsdesk Radio 95bFM The Wire’s Zoë Larsen Cumming and Justin Wong talked to Pacific Media Centre director Professor David Robie today about a resurgence of coronavirus cases in Papua New Guinea and the impact of other Pacific cases on two very important upcoming votes in Bougainville and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Chris Maylea, Senior Lecturer, Law and Social Work, RMIT University The second wave of the coronavirus and the resulting restrictions have impacted all Victorians. Many are struggling, but some are struggling more than others. In response to the increasing number of people ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Louise Stone, General practitioner; Clinical Associate Professor, ANU Medical School, Australian National University Last week, the Australian government announced it will provide ten extra Medicare-subsidised psychological therapy sessions for Australians in lockdown areas due to COVID-19. In such a stressful time, many ...
It looks like science has come off second best in government considerations during the development of Te Mana o te Taiao, the Aotearoa New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy, which envisions New Zealand as a place where ecosystems are healthy and resilient, and people embrace the natural world. The press statement announcing ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Wanning Sun, Professor of Media and Cultural Studies, University of Technology Sydney US President Donald Trump’s recent moves against Tiktok, the popular video-sharing platform, have been widely seen as part of a new “tech Cold War” between the US and China. Trump ...
National leader Judith Collins has endorsed David Seymour in the Epsom seat and recent polls have put support for ACT anywhere between 3 and 5 percent - giving it up to six MPs. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lily O’Neill, Research Fellow, Australian National University Huge clean energy projects, such as the Asian Renewable Energy Hub in the Pilbara, Western Australia, are set to produce gigawatts of electricity over vast expanses of land in the near future. The Asian Renewable ...
Remarks by new coach Nathan Brown and the closed-door discussions by the club around recruiting a man facing sexual assault charges undermines the rugby league club’s values, writes Tiffany Salmond.It’s been a hot topic in rugby league circles for well over a year – but not for the right reasons.Former ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Uri Gal, Associate Professor in Business Information Systems, University of Sydney The recent questioning of the heads of Amazon, Facebook, Google and Apple in the US Congress has highlighted the threat their practices pose to our privacy and democracy. However these big ...
Good habits start young, and with Money Week this week, now is a great time to look at how we can support and nourish our kids’ financial journeys writes Banqer’s Simon Brown. For some reason, a lot of people see money as a boring topic. But the fact is, it’s a ...
Open mike 02/10/2012 
Students will be striking for the climate again on Friday, September 4: Students in Wellington are gearing up to strike from school this September 4th, to protest inaction on climate change. Their demands? That Government invests in a green COVID-19 response; that there is a just transition provided for ...2 hours ago
There’s no Covid on the Cook Islands. But isolation-free travel into New Zealand from the Cooks looks to be a long way off. The Prime Minister confirmed on Monday that Cabinet had considered draft text being worked on via officials which will become the basis of an agreement for quarantine-free travel ...2 hours ago
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What to do to improve the public perception of the newly elected National party leader, when her performance so far has no doubt disappointed the expectations of her supporters? The answer is to get a National-supporting newspaper (the Herald) to organise a poll that could be guaranteed to provide an ...5 hours ago
Today’s content Auckland Central Tova O’Brien (Newshub): Senior National Party figure accused of using secret alter ego ‘Merv’ to derail Auckland Central candidate RIchard Harman (Politik): “Merv” upsets Nats’ Auckland Central selection Luke Kirkness (Herald): National Party’s Roger Bridge accused of using ‘Merv’ alter ego to derail candidate Nuwanthie Samarakone Tim Murphy (Newsroom): Out ...7 hours ago
Campaigns. Culture. Character. And perhaps most of all, Covid. Now the House has risen and politicians are hitting the road to pitch their woo to voters, those will be front of mind for the candidates.They were also where the new season of politics podcast Caucus began on Thursday. This year ...17 hours ago
There are only a few days left to make a submission on Statistics New Zealand's consultation on sex and gender identity statistical standards. This represents a really important step for recognising the very real diversity of gender, including people with no gender, and ensuring everyone has the option to see ...18 hours ago
Since finishing the Cranky Uncle vs. Climate Change book, I’ve frequently dipped into that 176-page clip-art library, reshaping the cartoons to fit the 1920 x 1080 pixel format for Powerpoint presentations. I’ve also adapted many of the cartoons for the Cranky Uncle video series. Over the last few weeks, a few people ...21 hours ago
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From some quarters, incessant scaremongering. From others, it’s a full-on tilt into touching the alarmist buttons a little too readily (uncertain times make for very captive audiences with this angle of attack). The (so-called) Opposition (and merely regarding them as that seems to be a far looser term now ...3 days ago
The attempts to sabotage Corbyn's leadership seems likely to do more damage than Corbyn supposedly ever could have done, even if all the stories about him were true: I was reluctant to say anything but this is too important, the full story needs to be told.Don’t let anyone ever tell ...3 days ago
Good day to everyone. I’ve been asked by Mr Thinks to come here and talk to you all about my concerns regarding the government response to Covid-19. We’ve been living through this pandemic for, what seems like, years. Years and years and years. Why else would the National Party have ...3 days ago
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by Don Franks This talk was given to the Wellington Anti Capitalist Alliance, fifteen years ago. The ultimate weapons of mass destruction so far seen on this planet have been used just twice, 60 years ago this month. August 6 and August 9 1945 witnessed the US atomic bombing ...5 days ago
Our health professionals do an amazing job. Image credit: Wikipedia – Cardiac surgery. Finally, I have got back to these rankings. A long period in hospital and computer problems meant the June 2020 rankings were abandoned. Now, with a new personal defibrillator implanted in my chest and a new hard ...1 week ago
It's campaign time! The official countdown to Election Day is underway, with Labour supporters crowding into Auckland's Town Hall for our 2020 Campaign Launch. We recap some of the highlights below ...19 hours ago
The Green Party has revealed its Homes for All Plan, which lays the foundation for an Aotearoa where everyone has a warm, dry and affordable home. ...2 days ago
An iwi-Crown approach programme to restore the Raukūmara forest on the East Coast of the North Island and boost employment opportunities for whānau, particularly rangatahi/young people, will receive $34 million funding, Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage has announced. “Raukūmara Pae Maunga is a partnership with Te Whānau-ā-Apanui, Ngāti Porou, and ...3 hours ago
With more than 1,000 local businesses on its books, MyHR saw firsthand the pressure the Covid-19 fallout put on New Zealand’s SMEs, as well as having its own business model tested to the limit.New Zealand’s Covid-19 lockdown had a seismic effect on human resources departments. In order to stay afloat ...15 mins ago
In an interview on Monday, Ms Collins said: We will not let DHBs limit or allocate health treatment based on race, which is what we’ve seen Labour allow some DHBs to do. That is really important that we cannot have that. It has to be on need and ...38 mins ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Caroline Gargett, NHMRC Leadership Fellow and Head of Women’s Health Theme, The Ritchie Centre, Hudson Institute of Medical Research, Hudson Institute Endometriosis is a debilitating, chronic condition that affects 1 in 10 women worldwide. It occurs when tissue which has similar properties ...58 mins ago
National leader Judith Collins says allegations surrounding the party's board member Roger Bridge is a matter for the party to deal with internally. ...60 mins ago
Have politicians lost control of big ratepayer-owned companies - or just failed to use their powers to keep them accountable to the public? Tim Murphy reports on an 'unvarnished' review of Auckland Council and its corporatised functions. The deepest inquiry yet into how Auckland's five council-owned companies are working finds major ...2 hours ago
Latest from the Beehive It’s been a quiet day in the Beehive with nothing particularly potent to emerge – in terms of lifting our general wellbeing – than the news we may soon be able to holiday in the Cook Islands. The PM’s press statement kicked off with the revelation ...2 hours ago
Traditional 'tough on crime' policies are mixed with rehabilitation initiatives in National's newly revealed law and order plans for the upcoming election The National Party has announced it would scrap the Government’s target to reduce the prison population, instead reviving its “social investment” approach across the justice system in a bid ...4 hours ago
A bizarre allegation on the TV news and a scolding of party members by a top official set the scene for a highly charged National Party candidate selection The National Party has chosen Emma Mellow as its candidate for the Auckland Central seat with less than four weeks until early voting begins, ...10 hours ago
Those most impacted by Covid-19 are those who can least afford to weather it, write Professor Merryn Gott and Dr Jackie Robinson Emerging evidence from overseas regarding the clear link between poverty and Covid-19 is as predictable as it is heartbreaking. People living in the most deprived areas of England and Wales ...10 hours ago
An essay, and memoir, by Dunedin writer Talia Marshall on fighting the White Power bitches at school Sophia turns up at my new place by happy accident. We haven’t seen each other properly for over 20 years but we’re friends on Facebook. One of the reasons I like Facebook, apart ...10 hours ago
A lack of central government policy on climate change adaptation has left councils treading water as they attempt to engage with threatened communities. ...10 hours ago
Since a nationwide amalgamation in 2017 there have been mass resignations at the SPCA, claims of bullying and employment dispute payouts. Now an online petition calling for a government inquiry has gained nearly 1000 signatures in five days A petition for a government inquiry to be launched into the transparency and accountability ...10 hours ago
In announcing the company's full-year results on Monday, Contact Energy CEO Mike Fuge warned of a "turbulent time" for the electricity market amid the exit of Tiwai Point. ...10 hours ago
After struggling with depression while recovering from a devastating knee injury, Tactix midcourter Erikana Pedersen wants to take her career in a new direction to help others. Last year was the “crappiest" of Erikana Pedersen’s 26 revolutions around the sun. But this year may turn out to be the best. Pedersen's year of ...10 hours ago
The polls and pundits are predicting the demise of NZ First leader Winston Peters and his party, but he has no plans to surrender or retire from politics, Dileepa Fonseka writes. ...10 hours ago
A mining company director demands Newsroom take down a story on rehabilitation conditions agreed with DoC for a former site on conservation land National leader Judith Collins' husband is threatening defamation action against Newsroom over a story about a West Coast mine site that the conservation department allowed to be left ...10 hours ago
Turkey’s relationships with Europe and the world are complicated. But an impending currency and economic crisis will not make them any better. ...10 hours ago
Long awaited changes to tenancy law have been made - are they really the landlord-killers that some make them out to be? Last week the Government passed under urgency a series of big changes to New Zealand's tenancy laws. The reforms of the 1986 Residential Tenancies Act have been in ...10 hours ago
The latest ANZ Business Outlook Survey is more downbeat, and Contact holds the line on profit ...10 hours ago
It looks like science has come off second best in government considerations during the development of Te Mana o te Taiao, the Aotearoa New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy, which envisions New Zealand as a place where ecosystems are healthy and resilient, and people embrace the natural world. The press statement announcing ...20 hours ago
John Tamihere to make a comeback? (NZ Herald today)
No thanks.
Thoughts?
Agreed. No thanks.
What, on the Conservative list?
Exactly Felix. Labour will lose my vote, and that of many other women, if he pops up anywhere on the Labour list.
Labour lost my vote long ago and I don’t think it’s possible they’ll ever get it back.
perhaps a bit more implied bene bashing will make you feel warmer towards the Red Flag?
It’s more than implied. And what’s the red flag got to do with it? It’s about caring and being inclusive, something Labour lies about still valuing. Just listen to the way Ardern talks about the poor. It’s all about “them”, “they” and “their”. She’s as bad as fucking Bennett.
On an MP’s salary it’d be grossly hypocritical to refer to “we” or “us” when discussing poverty …
The two ain’t mutually exclusive. How about talking about people? The way Bennett and Ardern refer to beneficiaries and low income earners (beneficiaries especially) as “them” and “they” is just repulsive, as if somehow people with a bit of cash or luck are in some way inferior to them.
I don’t really agree. The appropriate socialist concept (not sure if it is found in feminist identity politics) is that of solidarity.
On the union picket line the shift supervisor on $75,000 pa stands right next to the apprentice starting at $27,000.
Nothing hypocritical about that. From a socialist perspective, that is.
Solidarity, sure, but the objection Mary has is to Ardern saying “They are living in cold houses with no food to eat” – and the alternative, “We live in cold houses with no food to eat” sounds either completely disingenuous or incredibly patronising.
Expressing solidarity – “I am here to stand with people who live in cold houses with no food to eat” – isn’t the same thing.
I thought Ardern actually did a really good job around election time when she did that TV spot going back to Murupara and saying “This is the neighbourhood I grew up in, and while I don’t live here now it’s obviously affected my beliefs and means I do actually understand poverty”. Solidarity without co-opting.
OK. Expressing solidarity authentically does take a little bit more than doing a find and replace of “they” with “we”. I’m hoping to see it.
Of course it is, but that’s not the point, CV. The point is Mary has issues with Jacinda Ardern and Paula Bennett – two women on damn good pay – using the third person plural to refer to other people. I’m only trying to explain how using the first person plural would not be an improvement.
“Solidarity, sure, but the objection Mary has is to Ardern saying “They are living in cold houses with no food to eat” – and the alternative, “We live in cold houses with no food to eat” sounds either completely disingenuous or incredibly patronising.”
The comparison you make is wrong. There is no requirement for the speaker to align themselves with the subject in the way you’re suggesting by saying “We live in cold houses with no food to eat”, in the same way it’s not necessary to say “They are living in cold houses with no food to eat”. The answer, in relation to this particular example, is simply to say “People are living in cold houses with no food to eat”. You’re making things unnecessarily complicated.
People
You’re making things unnecessarily complicated.
Rubbish, Mary. You are. Sure, for one-sentence examples “people” works fine … but for extended speeches?
“People are poor and this means people can’t feed people’s children or keep people’s houses warm in winter. We want to support people so people can get jobs and people’s children don’t go to school hungry.”
Yes, how very compelling.
Better a poor man whose walk is blameless
than a rich man whose ways are perverse.
-Pr 28:6
Smooth dude 🙂
WTF? Suddenly using ‘they’ to describe a group of people to which you are not a member is offensive? Unless you’re a beneficiary yourself using ‘we’ and ‘us’ to refer to beneficiaries is nothing but a creepy affectation.
helpful teachers Viper
*sigh* – Waitakere man?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10837809
And this is not doing anything to warm me to the current Labour leader:
And there’s this (who is not apparently in line for a change of shadow job?):
Little has done some good things re his ACC spokesman role, though the Greens have often been sharper at getting points out there.
No way and no how! Besides the Waitakere Labour Party would revolt. They are determined that Carmel Sepuloni should have another go. She was a whisker from winning last time and with a slightly less antagonistic Green campaign would have won.
She ran a far better campaign than I’d expected when she stood for selection. By the election she’d quite evidently had worked up a pretty good team (always a good sign). I can’t see Tamihere being able to do anything similar.
Running against a sitting minister is always a hard slog. They get themselves entrenched if they don’t manage to personally screw up. Despite the slow descent of National, it is still going to be a hard slog to wrinkle Bennett out of that seat (depending on where the boundaries end up after the census).
Sepuloni can almost certainly do it. Tamihere is more likely to fall over his tongue.
Edit: ouch – nasty wee network drop then from orcon…
Agree about the possible boundary change. It could be with the loss of South Island population and Auckland growth and intensification that Mt Albert and New Lynn will move towards Downtown Auckland and New Lynn could lose the Titirangi Whatipu strip to Waitakere. There could then be a new urban seat out west and Waitakere could become more rural and less Labour friendly.
Carmel would be better off going for the new urban seat.
No way and no how! Besides the Waitakere Labour Party would revolt. They are determined that Carmel Sepuloni should have another go. She was a whisker from winning last time and with a slightly less antagonistic Green campaign would have won.
Is the left willing to talk about accommodations yet?
You would have to ask the greens!
It takes two to tango 😉
And, sorry micky, it’s never been the Greens who were unwilling to tango, as the seemingly eternal Ministerships of Peter Dunne and Winston Peters demonstrate.
Carmel lost to arguably the most revolting Nat there is. Bennett is a bully, she is vindictive, she is unleashing hell on the most vulnerable in society and she is proud of it all. She stands for everything that there is to despise in the National Party.
And guess what. She beat Carmel.
I am sorry but she shouldn’t get a second chance. To lose Waitakere to one of the most hard right politiciains there is, is a clear message that Carmel is the wrong person to be standing.
This should be a comfortable Labour seat. JT is not the man but surely someone better than Carmel can do the job.
Sorry EiE. I know the area very well. It is anything but a safe labour seat and the result was a testimonial to the local party’s efforts and Carmel’s qualities.
The Waitakere Labour Party are “revolting” now……
ummm No, The National MP for Waitakere is revolting though.
Fuck no.
John Tamihere… You’ve got to be kidding me?
Letting an animal abusing, homophobic, tax dodging drunk driver represent Labour at the next election is about as dumb as it gets. After Tamihere took leave when the dishonest financial dealings in the Waipareira Trust came to light, he badly insulted a number of Labour MP’s… Some of them still work within the Labour party and I doubt it’s all just water under the bridge.
If Carmel Sepuloni isn’t available, what about Ewen Gilmour? At least we’d be laughing with and not at him.
🙂
Just when you thought it was safe….
JT’s views on the provision of welfare, health and education services are pretty much aligned to National and ACT. His support of charter schools and his speech about welfare at the Knowledge Wave conference back in 01′ (remember that talkfest?), are exhibit A and B in that regard – he says he is opposed to dependency, but in reality, he wants to make the poor dependent on him.
He has a big bee in his bonnet about WFF, preferring tax cuts instead, even though that a tax cut would be far less than a WFF payment (he also joined the tax cut chorus).
He hates unions and supports the rollback of workers protections
He hate gays (not too sure why he has such an issue with people doing things in their own bedroom).
He supports private prisons and asset sales.
Not too sure why he would join Labour again?
Perhaps he should join National? He was linked to them a few years ago, plus they dont actually hate brown people anymore, just those who arent rich, or who refuse to join in the keeping up the the Jones’s arms race.
Perhaps the Maori Party is a better fit for him?
All of which makes me think this is just Tamihere’s imagination getting the better of him… With embellishments by the media in order to create a story.
That’s true of all people hungry for power. They say that they want to reduce peoples dependency upon the government but hide the fact that they want to make as many people as possible dependent upon them.
While he was standing
In prayer in the chamber,
The angels called unto him:
“Allah doth give thee
Glad tidings of Yahya`
Witnessing the truth
Of a word from Allah, and (be
Besides) noble, chaste,
And a prophet
Of the (goodly) company
Of the righteous”
Surah 3: 39
I will be a cold day in hell before Tamhere is allowed back into the Labour Party
He would make a fantastic candidate by joining other political rejects in an appropriate political party that Brash and Banks would know very well.
Key just cracked on TV3, under gentle questioning from Rachel Smalley on illegal Spying.
He is feeling the heat of the falling polls.
Yep and when you snap at her she bites LOL. and at the end of the one missing bit was the Thank you it was just travel safe…. in other words why did you waste our time with this shite?
Thanks for the tip. Will try to catch it on plus1.
Is there a link?
Watching now on plus1 – interesting use of split screen.
Is this it:
http://www.3news.co.nz/TVShows/Firstline.aspx
http://www.3news.co.nz/Dotcoms-lawyer-Opposition-question-Keys-Hollywood-trip/tabid/1607/articleID/271149/Default.aspx
I didn’t really see Key “crack”. He just hit back quite hard, running the line that it would be wrong for him to tell the GCSB who to investigate – with a straight face making a claim for democratic leadership – is why he doesn’t need to know everything GCSB is doing before they do it.
Not a snap really. Rachel asked him if he thought that they should be “keeping him in the loop.” Mr Key twisted that to was she/they somehow recommending a “police state” and “should a PM be deciding who to prosecute or not prosecute.” Rubbish Mr Key. We think that it would be necessary for a PM to be “kept in the loop” by getting regular updates especially over issues that affect the international influences on NZ.
To not be in the loop is a dereliction of duty.
To not be in the loop is a dereliction of duty.
Exactly. Thanks for the links, Karol. Key was certainly not comfortable in that interview – but obviously looking forward to his visit with the Hollywood big boys. His relief at the end of the interview was laughable – seemed to think he had nailed it with his spin. Don’t think so.
there was a momentray bit from key where he almost snapped – the whole “NO!, if you have me on your show you have to hear me out” bit – never mind the he was interupting all over the place
interestingly – listening to the non-vocal responses from smalley reveals a lot
Are you talking about this film?
My word, I saw a very serious ‘banker’ advertisement on TV last night, the only inspiration I could draw from it was that maybe, just maybe banks are finally ‘getting’ the feeling of unrest at the ideals of capitalism around the world, surely why else would they produce such filthy propaganda.
Their angle is, the problem is not the money, but how the money is used (and it looks like individual money) I will have to see it again to understand its intent better. Though was rather reminded of the way in which women make men feel better about the size of their small penis by saying “its not about the size, its about how you use it” – the old quantity vs quality thang 🙂
Yeah. This is one to keep an eye on. Also I think BNZ senior management and their advertising firm have jointly lost the plot.
This. The ad is unbelievably strange.
Weird. But weirder is what was or is the intent of the ad? Have they lost the plot? Or have they done something incredibly stupid, and are going to have to own up about it.
The ad campaign would have been approved in Oz. Who owns the BNZ nowadays? Commonwealth Bank of Oz?
The ad looks like it’s been made in Oz too.
National Australia Bank actually.
The Commonwealth owns ASB.
Not that it matters very much.
Cheers.
They have been having ‘teasers’ for it, and when I saw them I thought it was about a coming attraction film! It looked interesting – now I am very disappointed.
The ad in itself is a tease. It will no doubt lead into a range of more detailed ‘discussion’ ads on subjects, if it follows the ad man play book.
They completely excuse the fact that it is about money, how you get the money, what it does to a person in the process of the getting and that playing at being “good” afterwards is just a band aid for a gusher of a social wound. In the past, money was often considered an avoidable social blight, it’s just that no one bothers to look at any history that isn’t white, doesn’t excuse the claims of the status quo and that would force people to face the reality they’ve created.
Rule #1 of Modern Life: If it’s on TV, it’s bollocks.
QFT
Although I think I’d go for If it’s in the MSM, it’s bollocks
Not just non-white people have regarding the getting (and spending) of money as an ‘avoidable social blight’. My Scots forebears felt the same way, or so my mother (the last of them) often said.
People are waking up to how banking operates with films such as Money Masters and Zeitgeist and websites such as http://www.positivemoney.org.nz/ to show the complete corruption of the present system. And then there’s Steve Keen and other heterodox economists starting to make an inroad into the MSM as neo-liberal economics shows that it’s complete bollocks.
Given all of that the banksters really do have to try to head off all the negative press that they’re getting. Hopefully, their propaganda will just help convince people that they’re lying.
“Damn this dry shingle country”,
Old Jack the swagger cried-
“The rutting hare beneath; above
the brown hawk in his pride;
And not one green gooseberry bush
To suck and lay beside.
-J.K.B.
“reminded of the way in which women make men feel better about the size of their small penis by saying “its not about the size, its about how you use it” – the old quantity vs quality thang ”
Or when a woman asks “Does my bum look too big in this?”
And a man will make her feel better about herself by replying with the white lie “Of course not honey, you look great!”. 🙂
Is this it?
Geez that’s a bit sad….I thought it was for pokerstars or whatever as I never hung in till the end to see NAB’s NZ division’s logo….I normally mute them anyway.
Never mind their gargantuan profits it’s really your fault, this just shows how disconnected and gullible they are as the agency pitch worked but it’s far from alone. I’m mean these clowns thought the pig’s were top drawer….banks & pigs, oh dear did they think kiddies all have piggy banks, they have ToyStory/madagascar/Ice Age etc etc now.
The new countdown ad is a bit sad also.
Then there’s telecom and the no sex for the AB’s campaign…..the old boyngirl network is just sooo not connected with reality,.
Tamihere to rejoin Labour?
Surely this is just a vicious lie… or could the Labour Leadership really be that stupid?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10837809
I would prefer to think it is a rumour (although I understand he has rejoined) and that the party is far too bright to even think about allowing Tamihere another run at Parliament.
Agreed. He is an silly loose cannon with half-formed opinions and a bad habit of being incredibly sloppy in his work. Not to mention just plain stupid – who would be daft enough to do an meeting with a live mike on the table….. Mmmm. Key and Banks. Ok, lets rephrase this – to do this with that doyen of journalist integrity and balance – Ian Wishart.
But if you think about it. The idiots in Wellington are probably unaware of how much of a useless pillock he is. After all they aren’t the ones looking at the quite apparent inability to do any serious campaigning in Auckland. He couldn’t get a working campaign team around him at any stage in the past – why do they expect him to do so now?
But the beltway idiots do have this tendency to get suckered into anyone with the gift of the gab.
beltway idiots do have this tendency to get suckered into anyone with the gift of the gab
too true
And those without it. Do I have to say who that could possibly be?
From what I’ve seen, the Labour leadership really could be that stupid.
Quack Quack
Anyone else having issues with gravatar not working here? It hasn’t been working for me since last night, but it’s working on other sites 🙁
Showing up on my browsers ok. That is odd – we don’t even store those, they come directly from gravator.com. I suppose that they could be being cached at cloudflare.com, but then I’d expect the problem to show on my browsers.
I’ve had it happen a couple of times but a refresh (ctrl-f5) brings them back.
Hmmn, they’re working in google Chrome okay. Could be an update to the firefox adblock plugin that’s messed things up…
[edit] And for some reason gravatar.com was in the adblock list /puzzled look
Nope working fine here FF on win 7 And IE9.
First time ive seen TS in all ‘win’ and it looks all weird, probably just me as I hate Internet Exploder. It took me 3 attempts to get it to TS on a first run I get a dumb window asking if I want to set it up with standard options Yeah right. Or wait, Wait. Then I paste the link into the address bar only to have fucking Bing pop up, with a window of options NON of which had TS on it Bloody rubbish. 3rd attempt it finally brought up TS but it just looked Odd.
And before I am asked Yes I use Ad Block and No Script Both of which are disabled for this site and ONLY this one.
[lprent: The JQuery is due to get removed on the next round of updates. But there is always going to be some javascript in here ]
Good article from George Monbiot on the subversion of democracy by the rich. A couple of obvious parallels here in NZ.
It is a good article and one we should be taking seriously. Business interests really have been working to subvert democracy and they are winning in that regard. It’s why Shearer gets up to beneficiary bashing rather than laying the blame for our present problems where they lay – with business and the rich.
A clarification I would make. Many SMEs are split 50/50 between Labour and National. The big corporates and banks all swing just one way however.
I think Draco T Bastard is a die hard Marxist.
Wouldn’t it be funny if Draco and QofT got to run Labour’s next election campaign.
Shearer delivering speeches about “destroying the patriarchy and liberating Wymmin and Herstory” and “annihilating Capitalism and slaughtering the capitalist pigs, ushering in a Socialist utopia and the End of History!”
I’m sure the NZ public would lap it up.
lol
“I think Draco T Bastard is a die hard Marxist.”
He is more one of the Zeitgeist Movement/Venus Project fanboys.
P.S. “the End of History” was promulgated by Francis Fukuyama who was/is a neocon
Should ban that Pete George for life M8!
“P.S. “the End of History” was promulgated by Francis Fukuyama who was/is a neocon”
Actually he borrowed it from Marx’s Dialectical Materialism. He was being witty – the End of History was suppose to be a Socialist Utopia. But in the 1990s Communism was dead and buried and the neocons were at the height of their powers – thus this was a revised End of History.
Anyway 10 years later or so, Fukuyama was back peddling like crazy when the Yank neocons crashed and burned in Iraq.
Jah, see my comments below
Those who dispute about the Signs of Allah
Without any authority (of their own)
Bestowed upon them-there is
Nothing in their breasts
Surah 40.56
I haven’t seen you show any capability of thought.
…die hard Marxist
Says more about your lack of political acumen and general level of stupidity than anything else.
KP’s use of Marxist is such broad application is no less different from others here use of ‘Tory’ as a blanket term to label anyone who disagrees with their own bug-bears.
You might have a point, if KP hadn’t gone on to mention “annihilating Capitalism and slaughtering the capitalist pigs, ushering in a Socialist utopia and the End of History!”.
Personally I reckon the use of the neocon term just shows what a moron KP is, either confusing it with the Communist “Synthesis” or simply playing “insert random big word here to sound smart”.
The eradication of capitalism and execution of holders of capital are specific objectives that are not what one would term “moderate” socialist objectives.
‘End of History’ isn’t a neocon term.
A (former) neocon invested it but it relates to liberal, free market, democracies as opposed to neo-conservatism which is more than the liberal free market as espoused by Fukuyama.
Interestingly though “End of History” was used by Marx in the sense of the final point in mans socio/political development.
So whether KP was right in his use is debatable depending on context.
I think you’ll find it was Hegel that coined the phrase and that Marx updated it. And there is no correlation between the use of Tory and the use of Marxist.
Tory refers to supporters of mainstream conservative politics, specifically in the UK and more generally in other commonwealth countries. It’s not a perjorative term per se and it’s representative of quite a broad group, whereas Marxist means a subsect of the left, and one not normally associated with the western parliamentary system. The left equivalant of Tory is probably the mildly derogative socialist, at least in the UK, though most labour parties these days of course prefer Social Democrat.
No surprise Kiwi Prometheus doesn’t get it though … KP’s nuts.
Yes, I was incorrect in the invention but Fukuyama definitely gave the term a reinvention in this modern era.
Tory is not a pejorative term per se however people use it frequently on The Standard in a pejorative and blanket sense which isn’t applicable to every disagreement.
Personally I reckon the use of the neocon term just shows what a moron KP is, either confusing it with the Communist “Synthesis” or simply playing “insert random big word here to sound smart”.
End Of History:
Hegel’s Dialectical Idealism -> Marx’s Dialectical Materialism -> Fukuyama’s neoliberal witticism.
Got it, moron?
“confusing it with the Communist “Synthesis””
You are confused. Let me help you:
Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis —> which contains another contradiction —> Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis —> which contains another contradiction, and so on and so on and so till you get to the final Synthesis with no contradiction = End of History
Comes down through Hegel and his mystical inclinations to Marx. Synthesis is not ‘Communist’ its an element in a Philosophical argument.
“simply playing “insert random big word here to sound smart”.”
Anytime you want to argue Philosophy let me know.
Yeah fair cop dude.
Pity it’s an aberration rather than your usual standard of fucktardedness. Although I’m not exactly sure where dtb stands on execution of the capitalist class.
Stretch a bow to the very full,
And you wish you had stopped in time;
Temper a sword-edge to its very sharpest,
And you will find it soon grows dull.
When bronze and jade fill your hall
It can no longer be guarded.
Wealth and place breed insolence
That brings ruin in its train.
When your work is done, then withdraw!
Such is Heaven’s Way (as opposed to the way of man)
Chapter 9
yeah, fair cop on that one, too 🙂
I didn’t know Draco was known for posting about “wymmin” and “herstory”.
I’ve stamped on K_P’s bigotry a time or two so he’s obviously decided that that puts me in with the RadFem Man haters.
What bigotry is that?
I stamped on the Feminist gender bigotry.
[citation needed]
In NZ the ‘Centre for Independent Studies’ (?) and the Business Round Table which was set up by arch-neoliberal Douglas Myers have the same function. They have articles in the MSM and probably tell John Key exactly what to do and when.
Right wing much better funded and more tightly organised and institutionally supported than the Left.
So of course they are winning. The only way for Labour to win is to be friendlier towards them and their ideas. I am glad that the beltway realise this.
Hey MickeySavage. Re yesterdays discussion on Open Mike around Helen Clark/Childfree Vs.Childless: Absolutely no need to apologise. I just wanted to point out the terminology, thats all.
I wasn’t being uppity towards you at all. I always like what you have to say.
Eric John Ernest Hobsbawm
9/7/1917 -1/10/2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hobsbawm
I remember having Age of Extremes as the textbook for my twentieth century history paper in 1997. He wrote very well.
Crikey I missed that. Incredibly sad.
To me he was like the socialist version of Edward Gibbons’ The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire – a guy who presumed to pattern history.
Or like a really lithe and magisterial version of The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist.
He was the history version of Habermas for me – of a generation when the idea of being Left meant being able to imagine and enable the overturning fo the entire world.
Hobbsbawm for me recounted all the different epochs in recent history in which overturning the worst of the world was possible.
Certainly not a revolutionary. But really seenig the world my way, and having th time and devotion to really map the whole thing out as if the world could both be redeemed and made sense of at once.
Damn that makes me sad. I will drink to his memory tonight, from the top of Mt Eden, and survey the City as the supreme work of man, and rail against it all.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
-Thomas
( ‘cos i’m being followed by a moonshadow…moonshadow..moonshadow)
That is a big loss, a true thinker.
Thanks for that Joe.
🙁
Seen this?
(Had a banner advertising the National Day of Action outside Avondale Market on Sunday 30 September 2012, and banners keeping the pressure on dodgy John Banks and shonky John Key 🙂
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4420436667353.184705.1182019755&type=1
Press Statement: National Day of Action Against Welfare Reforms, 5th October 2012,
By Janet Robin, President, Waitemata Unite.
“The Waitemata Branch of the Unite Union supports the National Day of Action Against the Welfare Reforms this Friday October 5th.”
“We will be joining the protests at 12 noon at Henderson Square,
1pm at WINZ Henderson (36 Sel Peacock Drive) , and 2.30pm at Paula Bennett’s Office
(429 Great North Rd).”
“ We are appalled at the cruel, punitive, discriminatory and short-sighted measures the National Government is taking against poor families, youth, and the sick and disabled! ‘”
“Forcing small children and babies into childcare and their mothers onto the job market is wrong. Parenting is work and single parents are doing the work of two! They raise our future workers and tax -payers. Children are our taonga!” “ Parents must choose whether day care or paid work is right for their family.”
“Taking money from our poorest families is state violence against children.”
“It is not OK for 270,000 New Zealand children to live poverty. Kids are hungry!”
“It’s not OK to control parents by punishing their children.” “It is not OK to make the poor pay for the bankers’ and corporates’ crisis.” “Deliberate impoverishment of children contravenes the United Nation’s Rights of the Child!”
“Taking money from youth stops them being able to manage their own lives; and gives the control to private providers who do not know their needs.”
“Forcing the sick and disabled into work may spread disease, and cause worse illness or even death.”
The real welfare reform needed is to raise all benefits to a living income!” “Discrimination against families on benefits must stop! “Working for Families
Child tax credits and a Universal Child Benefit must be available for all families.”
“We call for full economic and social support for parents, carers, the sick and disabled.”
The government must create jobs; raise the minimum wage, and make tertiary education free! “It needs to build the welfare state not destroy it.”
“It must stop the privatisation of health, education, welfare and water, and return them to the people.”
“We call on workers, students, parents and beneficiaries to unite against these attacks!
Let’s build strong communities, support each other, and create a better society.”
unitewaitemata@gmail.com http://waitemataunite.blogspot.co.nz
8369104 ; 8177470 ; 0272800080
so Kweewee is off to California ostensibly to have meetings with the Movie set.
Wow!
More drivel for the masses.
But I bet he has a secret meeting with someone in the US top secret establishment and gets hauled over the coals for being a monkey.
Helen Kelly talks about it very sensibly here:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2534217/ctu-fears-more-deals-to-undermine-labour-laws-with-key-visit
Waitakere Man.
Had to go back to Bowalley Road to find the definition of that shadow construct. My conclusion is that he doesn’t exist in the form Chris trotter intended; his “woman” doesn’t either. Don’t know any women from the west of my age that would be attracted to John Key’s “…boyish charm…”. Does Chris know any people who live out West? In 2008, Waitakere Man would have to have been between the ages of 50 and 200 to carry the full wieght of the projection, and that would be a fairly small demographic with an awful lot of power if Labour reckon it was “him” who ended the Clark regime.
I wasted almost 6 hours untangling the boogy man. Found some interesting things, but nothing new. Of the people I knew, I could construct a Waitakere Man from fragments, but no one was him in and of themselves. No one mentioned anything using the words PC Bullshit or welfare bludger. Since the culture was watered down rural, everything was one side or the other, no need for fancy names; it was a simple nod or look, a refusal to help or a making of plans to be elsewhere; education was good, though free thinking was something you did in private.
That’s the trouble with projections and scapegoating, they’re simplified distortions. And why the West? The place has been officially scapegoated since at least the late eighties, when The Herald had a full page article on the definition of The Westie: Black clothing, angry dog, drives a Holden. What The Herald forgot, is that at that time, those people were a minority who had money. I was just a kid wearing free second hand clothes. Outrageous Fortune was a parody of a parody of a parody. But “westies” aren’t the reason the West is scapegoated. You have to go back further than that. The place has a nasty history, all prettied over with lies and inherited privilege. The thing is, that while the West has a past, there are numerous places in NZ that still live a present just like the West’s past and that’s an embarrasment not many can bear cold turkey. My shadow man lives on the North Shore; white, arrogant from over education, ignorant about life outside narrow social norms, concieted, a little narcisstic. I never knew him as a complete person, just clashed with some of his traits. I’m just about over him, but it’s taken several years.
So hell, I’m not going to tell you that Waitakere Man doesn’t exist if you need to kick him to cover NZ’s collective guilt. Wouldn’t want you to go into personal meltdown unnecesarily. As far as things go, he’s the least weep-worthy. He isn’t a woman, or gay, or an immigrant, or a man on his roof painting or cleaning, or a Maori, or an Afro/Native American or an Australian aborigine. He is mightily kick worthy. He’s the ultimate white man:
Stripped forests, dammed streams and poisoned rivers
Starved at least one tribe at the base of the Waitakere’s
appropriated land for his kind; took money for land that didn’t exist
abused his women and children with booze and patriarcy
enslaved himself and fellows for money
The list goes on and on. It’s not the done that’s makes Waitakere man so kick-worthy. It’s that he still lives in us all. It looked to me like Chris Trotter was attempting the difficult and dangerous task of trying to embrace the shadow man in himself – and crossing the line from careful observation into sympathy – when he said in 2009 that when the music stops the Waitakere Man should not be left standing, and later, that certain people couldn’t move on because they hated their own kind. Maybe he even highlighted the shadow man in the Left. Right now, we have a man leading Labour who is manipulating the shadow the Left won’t embrace.
So you’re feminist, but damn it, you’re middle class and white.
So you’re an indigenous activist, but your family is well placed.
So you’re a union leader, but earning much more than minimum wage.
So you believe in welfare, but only for the deserving, you’ll never need it yourself.
Yeah I can understand the tension of contradictions. I can’t tell you how to solve your problems, but I won’t hate who you tell me to hate and I’m pretty sure shifting the blame to phantoms is counterproductive.
While there is a big gap between saying the jig is up, honestly healing the scars of the past and reaching a future transition, creating new shadow players for our political landscape is a waste of time. We have the benefit bludger, we have the Waitakere Man, we have all sorts of drama triangles going on and none of it is leading anywhere remotely useful. We can’t chop bits from ourselves and banish them from the village as a scapegoat, or float them out to sea or down a river in a reed basket. Calling things as they, as opposed to constructing myths, exposes our part in it and if we’re awake, we might discover something of what all of us need.
I was born out West, lived and worked there till I was 22. I’m your evil Man, consumed with the “…ingrained mysogyny and cultural diffidence…” Chris says I am. Once apon a time I even had a trade. Couldn’t hold onto my stuff like Chris reckons, though, life is too complex for such simplicities. My family lived on a land lot that was once appropriated land. I’m white, privileged in the way white people are, no matter how poor and ruined they get. Before that my grandmother escaped the violence and drunken womanising of my great grandfather, she passed the problem to her daughter, she passed it to my Father, he passed it to me. I’ve done and been all kinds of things, I’ve seen enough of my own darkness to terrify myself. Which part, which place, which evil do you want me to atone for? Which role do you want me to play, to persecute another person for my wrongs? Will your projection fit me? What you going to do about it? Isn’t this fun, this study in dancing from victim to rescuer to persecutor? Wake the hell up, people.
If you want scapegoats to end, finish with your own first. Then we can move on to politics.
This is a frakkin’ feast of a post in its own right. Get it to the top of The Standard mate.
Great stuff Uturn. Made the day worthwhile. Cheers!
Good description fellow westie.
Once a westie always a westie!
I also thought Chris was wrong and Carmel Sepuloni went within a whisker of proving this.
I commented at the time that I thought there are at least eight different Waitakere tribes. Cutting and pasting …
There is a good number of traditional pacifica and the children for who the traditional island way is less and less attractive.There is the green tribe, Labour and Green activists who are deeply concerned about environmental issues and whose activity and contribution to Labour and the Greens is a disproportionate one. They are incensed at this Government, at its desire to mine conservation areas, and at the attack it has made on the protection of the Waitakere Ranges heritage area.There is the traditional tribe, working class homeowners who are getting on in age and who generally stick to Labour. Some of them were persuaded by National’s “Labour lite”campaign of 2008 to vote for Key but many of them are now scratching their heads about how they could have been persuaded to do so.There is the superior tribe. They always believe they are better than the rest and think that voting National shows their superiority. It takes a lot to change them.There is the beneficiary tribe. It is often hard to get them to vote because they are trying to cope with many problems but if threatened they will do so. They will not vote for a benefit basher.There is the geriatric tribe. They used to be predictable in the way they voted but tend to be persuaded by self interest. Stephen Joyce’s threat to the gold card will not have gone done well with them.There is the ethnic tribe, primarily Chinese and Indian who network well and who respond to concepts of equality and fairness. They were sucked in last time by Law and Order issues but things have got worse under this Government and I suspect they are regretting their last choice.And there is the self employed tribe, the “Waitakere tribe” that Trotter talked about. They believe in fairness.
To win Waitakere you need to dominate about 6 tribes. But not all of them.
Well put, Mu=icky & Uturn. I have thought that the Henderson area, and wider Waitaks, is pretty diverse….. and I don’t think I know any of Trotters “Waitakere Men”.
Awesome stuff UTurn.
I’ve always found CT to be a tame ‘lefty’ trotted out to show the frogs that the MSM have ‘balance’ and yet another priviledged out of touch soul ranting on so the presenter muppets can nod sagely at his musings as if it’s food for thought .
U- 🙂 (the disciple he loved)
M- 🙂
Uturn.
onya m8.
now how about something on the complete lack of courage by Len Brown and his council when it comes to standing up to the malfeasance of Rodney Hide and the crew trying to steal POAL off the people of Auckland.
LB is too busy seeking to close down libararies…
But Saudi-based news organisation Al Arabiya says it has been given documents which show the fire was intentional and Syria’s Assad regime was behind it.
The whole article is so poorly written, of course there will be no official report released, its obviously a total sham, and rumour as eluded too in the above extract – BS all the way!
Let’s just clear this up, we have Syria “responsible” for this fire, and Iran responsible for the DoS “attacks on the banking systems (helps with the executive order to regulate the internet too, you know the one which would not pass through any level, even in the corrupted houses in America)…All rather convenient isn’t it!
Carry on!
And, as if I have a crystal ball of some sort, this from today’s propaganda desk…
White House targeted in cyber attack
It’s all getting far too transparent/predictable these days…
To judge by the way they keep hammering away at it, 3 News are very excited about the allegation and believe it all the way.
Allergy-free milk for children is a step closer after New Zealand scientists made a world-first breakthrough using a genetically-modified cloned cow.
So we have modified cows then – Oh look, just like in China – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/geneticmodification/8423536/Genetically-modified-cows-produce-human-milk.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9335762/Cows-genetically-modified-to-produce-healthier-milk.html
Argh I see, you come up with a GE situation which will pitt people against eachother (especially those with young children, so you get it really emotional), and you get them to scrap it out in the hope that this will open up our laws to open slather GE/GMO
Why are so many people allergic to milk now compared to the past? How about we look at prevention rather than cure?
Indeed Weka, that is certainly the question, although a cure this is not. Its the advancement of the unnatural over the natural, while trying to sell it to people as “progress”
Wonder who stands to gain the most from the “band-aides”
Call me cynical, but gee let’s use child health as a reason to promote a risky, dangerous use of science in order to make shit loads of money.
As I mentioned above Weka, this will serve multiple functions for the “stakeholders”, inevitably to not only make a profit, but to control chunks of the agri-farming industry.
But finding an issue which could potentially become devisive is crucial, and very little would be more divisive than combining childrens health, and GMO products.
If you are against the use of “chemical milk”, then you are against “my child”, but with our current state of non GMO labelling, it would seem that being for “chemical milk”, potentially means that you are putting your childs allergies, ahead of not only other peoples children, but also against adults as well….
As DTB noted – Stop drinking cows milk, its not designed for humans anyway!
Yeah its feeling like we been in this game too long and seen the same thing too many times.
It’s probably just more known about now than in the past.
That’s easy – don’t drink cow milk.
“It’s probably just more known about now than in the past”
You think a hundred years ago people weren’t capable of noticing bad effects in their body from eating a certain food?
More likely is that environmental factors have changed. In no particular order of relevance – pasteurisation and homogenisation of milk, increase in multiple assaults to the immune system (including from food allergens), a shift to high carb diets, changes in the breed of cows being used for dairy, changes in the way that milk is drunk and eaten, increasing multigenerational susceptibility to all those things etc.
The human gut has hardly had any time to adapt to cows milk. Cows havent been used as domestic farm animals for more than a few thousand years.
And as weka suggests, most people who grew up drinking milk on farms a couple of decades ago find the store bought milk today a complete imitation.
/sigh
Actually, water buffalo, yak, horse, cow, sheep and goats milks has been used long enough in Europe, ME, Russia-Central Asia, India and Africa that there’s very high penetration of alleles that allow for lactose digestion. Particularly within cultures that depended heavily on cattle. And domestication of some of those milk producing species actually dates back to the early neolithic with the emergence of agricultural cultures.
i.e. teh wiki is your friend, check first if unsure instead of looking foolish by saying ignorant stuff.
And on allergic reactions – there’s been a rise in allergies for some time, part of it is down to environmental factors, such as healthier environments and less parasites (hygiene hypothesis). Otherwise the spread of health service availability, has made allergies more visible and survivable/treatable, and the advent of the petrol motor and refrigeration has made fresh milk a lot more available. Most people before that would get their dairy products as butter and cheeses.
So taking these factors into consideration, milk allergy presentation within modern populations is actually a bit more complex than your argument.
And in this particular case is linked to a protein found only in cows milk, (rather than lactose intolerance) so teh hygiene hypothesis probably comes into play here.
Personal taste too, grass passed through a cows multiple stomachs and digestive juices does not do it for me as a beverage.
One theory says that homogenisation alters the proteins and this is what causes problems in the gut. Another theory says that pasteurisation kills the beneficial microbes as well as the pathogenic ones (and possibly changes the proteins) and this also causes problems in the gut. People with problems who drink raw milk instead often report an improvement in their health, sometimes a marked improvement or complete remission of symptoms.
Milk is for calves not humans. Surely this GE rubbish will put overseas people off buying New Zealand products, many still believe the myth that we are clean and green.
I’ve never really understood the milk is for calves not humans argument. We might as well say that eating beef isn’t for humans. Or mutton, or any meat that we couldn’t kill and eat when we were still living in the trees. In fact, if we all came from near the equator originally, why not say we should only be eating tropical food?
A Fonterra rep may appear soon! I just find cow milk a revolting product.
Humans are omnivores that these days have a lot of choices from industrial food production. If city dwellers had to slaughter, gut and butcher a beast to get their meat rather than buy it on a styrofoam tray there would be way more vegetarians.
There is enough research to say that eating meat isnt for humans. Surely we have evolved to a stage where we can admit there is no justification for the cruelty involved in the killing of animals. It is just not necessary. It is possible to find delicious vegetarian food to take the place of cruelly obtained meat and dairy.
belladonna, that’s a moral argument (and one that is easily refuted if you really want to go there) not a biological one. Humans have been eating meat and milk for tens of thousands of years and been healthy with it for the most part.
B- Well, that’s my vision of hell. Next you’ll suggest I live without hard liquor and tobacco, too.
It is possible to find delicious vegetarian food to take the place of cruelly obtained meat and dairy.
[citation needed]
Sorry, belladonna. I’ve often considered veg*nism in the past, and it just ain’t the thing for me. Bacon and eggs 4 lyfe.
@Tiger
I like my grass feed meat 😛
And be perfectly fine with how it’s killed.
@belladona
[Citation Needed]
While we can survive off veges, fundamentally meats are very efficient and easy to digest (once cooked/cured/smoked) source of protein, which is why the genus Homo learnt to exploit wild sources and eventually work out how to farm animals for meat. And unfortunately we’re also hardwired to love the taste, so it will probably take a global disaster or price issues to make us less dependant on it.
And both don’t have a lot of evidence 😛
Of the clinically significant type, with teh controls/deep info stuff to get a better picture so we don’t get false positives/negatives.
Also, mostly the proteins are denatured, in the particular case of β-Lactoglobulin however, both before and after pasteurisation it seems to trigger an immune system response. So pasteurisation probably isn’t to blame.
Anyhow, the heat treatment thing case further implications vis human diets due to the fact we tend to cook _everything_ we can get our hands on. Which denatures proteins, which are then ripped apart in the stomach via proteases (protein digesting enzymes). So working out if pasteurisation is the causative factor is actually kind of “complex” /cough
Annoyingly complex.
How about homogenisation (which is the main theory about protein change)?
And how do you account for the numbers of people who claim their health improves on switching from pasteurised to raw (unhomogenised) milk?
btw, pasteurisation and cooking are not the same thing. And you can cook foods in quite different ways and render them more or less digestible.
Are the proteins actually changed? Or is it a simple matter of the tiny fat particles being able to penetrate the gut wall directly, taking undigested dairy proteins and other matter into the body for the immune system to react against?
Generally though food temps get at or above 100 degrees (bar slow cooking, which carries with it certain risks) which for all but proteins with a large number of disulfide bonds, pretty much denatures proteins fully.
As for the raw milk thing, to work out what’s going on we’d need to see a clinical trial or at least full reporting which takes into account null results in order to see if there’s any thing actually going on. i.e. is it merely the placebo effect or something more significant?
And a little more detail: the immune system usually recognises only small-ish polymers sequences, so usually we can design vaccines using only a relatively small protein sequence (depending on protein’s 3d structure) or merely a single protein. However, given the 3d structure of proteins + any sugar coatings (polysaccharides) or if they’re a glycoprotein, an antigen (thing that triggers immune response) may actually comprise a small area of the 3d structure. Rather than a linear protein sequence.
Which is generally disrupted by pasteurisation and cooking 😛
@CV – one word “bile” 😛
i.e. that stuff that breaks apart fat and oil globules during digestion so gut bacteria can break up the fats and proteases get at any proteins.
And antibodies are found outside of cells 😛
derp (4 hours or less of sleep here) so with milk allergies, what’s generally happening is antibody recognition during ingestion and digestion of dairy products of short protein sequences that happens with both raw and pasteurised milk. And yes, it does happen with raw milk, because that’s what you purify certain milk proteins from for part of allergy testing.
*Sigh*
Did you hear me mention lactose, or did you assume?
Did you see me suggest that what I wrote was the complete explanation, or did you assume?
Are you suggesting that sheep’s milk and yak’s milk and cow’s milk are somehow all equivalent? Or did you assume?
I really tire of academics who think they know shit, but finally when you drill down, it turns out that the shit they know is nothing but a really deep but really narrow shit which can help fuck all people.
🙄
And if you’d bothered thinking, you might have picked up on something I alluded to in there, that was a consequence of the emergence of lactose tolerance in human populations. i.e. there was evolutionary pressures on human populations to exploit available milk sources, which also would have made milk allergies less prevalent. Admittedly I should have made the clearer (I <3 crap sleep) though.
🙄
Then stop using the fruits of it, I hear alt-med will so totes cure all cancers 😎
Funny thing though, vaccines = science, green revolution = science, etc etc, then there’s the whole methodology of science (I tend towards more systems-based approaches), which is fundamentally a very useful set of tools for sanity checking truth claims, and avoiding stupidity (though being human…). So frankly, you appear to be full of shit.
oh fuck, don’t start the vaccine bullshit again 🙂
lolz
Hopefully you know what doesn’t spot it, I haz work tomorrow and chilli’s to get started 😛
“green revolution = science”
The green revolution that bought us pesticide residues (and poor health), land degradation, loss of biodiversity, soil loss etc?
Pesticide residues = lack of knowledge + political stupidity over chemical controls (i.e. no precautionary principle…). Heck, up until the 60’s we still didn’t have a good grasp on cancer causation and were just starting to understand how hormones worked and thus the potential impact of stuff that was chemically similar to hormones.
Land Degradation/Soil loss = poor farming techniques, argicultural scientists have been hammering on it being a problem for decades upon decades, but the costs have never been apparent enough (despite being rather real and expensive) for corporate and small farmers to alter their farming systems to deal with it sadly 🙁 So it’s not so much a failure of the green revolution, but of cultural stupidity.
Loss of biodiversity = again, farming techniques issues, heck until recently biodiversity hasn’t had intrinsic value, so it was usually ignored. Only in the last 2 decades really have we started to nut out empirical costs of biodiversity losses and force the anti-conservation/greenie crowd to see the true costs of their ignorance. Sadly a little too late perhaps 🙁 Though with carbon pricing, we should see greater emphasis on biodiversity as a carbon sink tool.
Anyhow, mainly the green revolution was the application of evolutionary theory to crop breeding, allowing for the emergence of highly fertile crops and ironically involved very primitive genetic modification via mutagens to increase selectable variation. Without this, even the advent of cheap fertilizers probably wouldn’t have avoided global hunger issues* and revolutionised yields and nutrition for many farmers in the developing world. Although the push for monoculture crops is coming back to haunt us, and we will likely see major development of newer crop cultivares via selective breeding and use of better suited farming techniques.
Of course, the annoyance is a lot of the negative issues with the green revolution were predictable, particularly the use of monocultures and pesticide/herbicide resistance via evolutionary theory (tools already in place, Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher did the grunt work vis maths+ stats tools). And I’d have to go a history hunting (not a small project at all and I’m too disabled by depression at present) to understand why this happened. Whether it was a failure to research this stuff or a political/economic issue in which warnings were ignored.
____________________________
*main ones today aren’t so much production limitations, but rather price and distribution, with poverty and political instability + climatic variation and the effects of climate change being presently lesser causes.
Whoops, forgot to add in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewall_Wright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.B.S._Haldane
Who also provided a lot of the maths and stats tools we still use today for evolutionary bio stuff /me-need-sleeeeeeeeeep
No, I’m thinking that 100 years ago we didn’t have TV, Radio or the internet for it to be as widely published as today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance
Not following that. Did you mean that the incidence of milk allergy is no greater, but we are just more aware of it?
Yes.
And thanks to loads of insidious corporate advertising, we are (no doubt) drinking vastly more milk and consuming more milk containing products today than 50 years ago.
Damn those corporations! Making me drink all that horrible milk!
They are one clever campaign away from making me drink cooper sulfate.
Always easiest to keep the prisoners who think themselves free.
Kill the cows (and thereby f*#k the greedy shareholders) – preserve the waterways, the ozone layer, the roads and the breastfed babies.
Grow the sheep, fertilise the earth, maximise the breastfeeders – buy cheaper lamb (mmmm, yum)
“Yes”
I go back to my original point then – people were just as capable of understanding when something they ate made them sick before the advent of mass media. If lots of people were getting sick from drinking milk, they would have known about it.
And if it’s only mild so that they don’t actually say anything about it? And it’s not broadcast for everyone to see?
You’re trying to say that nothing has changed even though many things have.
People talked to each other about their health before TV. Books were written on health too. Obviously alot of things have changed, and mass media has a big influence. But it doesn’t follow from that that allergies haven’t increased.
You’ve also got to take into account the hygiene hypothesis too weka 😛
Yes, I am. I’m saying that allergies are increasing, due to environmental changes (including the hygiene issues).
100 Māori words every New Zealander should know
While it all seems like a nice idea some NZer’s are a) not interested in learning any language because b) they are absolutely rubbish at it.
Most managed to learn at least one language though. We should be teaching te reo in schools, starting with pre-school.
I tried and failed with German, Latin and Spanish and remember only a few words of Maori.
Meh, I’m just not one of those people that pick up languages well nor do I have any interest in it.
I was meaning English 😉
I did french, german, and latin – and remember nothing of them. However I am currently literate in at least 30 other current languages – to a coding standard. C++ is always the favourite though. I forget how many I have forgotten (snobol anyone). I seem to have several types of assembler and innumerabe libraries embedded..
Although my written English still needs work.
The only way to learn and remember languages is to use them constantly. IMO, people who say that they aren’t good at languages just aren’t in the right environment to maintain those languages that they don’t know. Put them in the right environment and I’m pretty sure that they’ll pick them up pretty quick.
Well, I would like to agree with you but I spent 2 months trying to learn Spanish followed by 3 months traveling through South America and picked up nothing expect how to ask for beer and coffee.
My wife though, she was a natural.
Good link DTB, surprised by how many I know, in Far North Māori population is around 45% and bi–culturalism is a numbers game reality rather than a construct.
/facepalm
Could GE Free NZ possibly sound any more downright stupid?:
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/low-allergy-milk-frightening-ge-free-5110649
In a nut shell – they’re ignorant bloody fucking idiots. 5 second search on google for β-Lactoglobulin function reveals it has no role in developmental biology, any probably serves as a protein source and carrier protein for hydrophobic molecules, like fatty acids. In fact, if it had any critical role in developmental biology, the calf wouldn’t have made it to term, let alone be healthy enough for AgResearch to go “success!”.
And by the elder things, the rhetoric they’re using is just so damn stupid and illustrates even further how little they understand the fucking science involved. Which from the little there’s revealed in the news is actually pretty neat and involves using micro RNAs to target gene expression patterns. Which in this case leads to the organism expressing a lot less β-Lactoglobulin, rather than a knockout mutation that disables the gene or it’s relevant expression mechanisms. In theory, because it’s a lot more straight forward (due to it being a lot more specific) there was probably a much higher success rate. But until the paper comes out, probably wont know exactly how it was done.
Also, NZ GMO laws vis large transgenic animals definitely need work, unlike a mouse or a plant, escape risk is very, very low. Although the calf being abducted/”euthanised” by anti-GE nuts is probably quite high…
Yeah you scientist types have regularly been right about this stuff, until new research turns up in 20 years time showing that you weren’t aware of something critical.
Then you call it “progress”.
Well, forty years ago you’d have been writing that sentiment in a letter to a newspaper. Science progresses the environment, not the people.
Differentiate between technology and science mate.
Further, there have been plenty of major fuck ups in the development of internet technology as well. IE6 and AOL for starters.
What is this idea of “progress” you talk about? Shinier stuff with better screens and nicer pictures? That’s the measure of progress in our civilisation is it?
Shiner stuff that still ends up in the landfill, and at a faster and faster rate 🙁 We can blame business for that though 😉
science provides the difference between an airfield control tower and a cargo cult. And the difference between a new heart valve being inserted and bleeding a fever victim to realign their humours.
Just think, somewhere like a billion people are in a position to read your railing against science within seconds of you pressing “submit comment”. That happened due to a range of sciences. People live longer and are more able for more of their lives. Pity that science hasn’t figured out how to make people more grateful for their blessings.
Sorry McFlock, unless you are willing to count fitter turners, test technicians, and software developers as scientists, you are suffering from a huge amount of scientism based overreach,
Bull shit. Science is one ingredient of the above mate, not the whole cake, and not necessarily the biggest or most important ingredient.
For instance – are you trying to class the Wright brothers as scientists now too? How big a role did they play in the development of what you mention? How about huge? Again your comment is overly influenced by an over reaching faith in science.
As for the cargo cult, they merely observed a pattern and deduced a conclusion. A good use of scientific process.
What a load of shit.
Given that the Wright Brothers drew on the research of George Cayley, a founding member of the British Association for the Advancement of Science, yeah, science was essential for the Wright Brothers achieving controlled flight. I never said “science is all you need”, I just think we’d be fucked without it.
Necessary, not sufficient.
That’s my point. Science is just one ingredient. And only a minority of the problems which trouble society can be solved with it.
Science contributed but didn’t make the breakthrough application. Others had to do that. Science isn’t everything. It’s simply a bit.
is not the same as
In flight, scientists did not make the breakthrough application.
In medicine, flight of meaningful distances and speeds, logistics, navigation (sea/air/land), communication, energy generation (and the identification of its resulting hazards), agriculture, nutrition, water supply, computing, etc etc etc… on the other hand, scientists can, did, and still do create breakthrough applications and more importantly push the limits of knowledge to enable others to do the same.
And the only problems that scientists can’t contribute to the solutions thereof are social problems. For those you need Arts majors.
Particularly Arts majors that also know how to use statistical tools properly 😉
The other faith you seem to have is that having more people who are more highly qualified (whether in the sciences or arts or whatever) increases the tendency for problems to be solved, not created.
Well, I’m reading at night, eating clean and safe food with a plentiful supply of clean water and a reliable and safe source of heat should the elements turn.
Oh, and arguing with someone hundreds of miles away while having immediate access to much of the world’s knowledge even if it’s stored thousands of miles away. And not just the big stuff – I can look for the experience of others who might have the same interest as me be it gardening, carving, knitting, surviving in the wild, amateur astronomy, or how to tie a bow tie.
Definite progress compared with, say, the 14th Century. By that measure I’d be dead by now. No shit. Gotta love scientific medicine.
Scientific medicine. What an oxymoron. Stochastic medicine I’ll accept. Also, perhaps 75% of our increased life expectancy has come from other sources. Increased income and education levels etc. As I have already described.
Wait, what?
The Wright Brothers had to draw on many scientific advancements to achieve flight.
Aerodynamics, velocity, fucking gravity.
Did that make them scientists? Possibly not but without the scientific disciplines of those before them they wouldn’t have made such an achievement. The Wright Brothers stood on the shoulders of giants
” How big a role did they play in the development of what you mention?”
Huge, because we furtherance out understanding into flight and how it might be achieved.
“Again your comment is overly influenced by an over reaching faith in science.”
Science requires no faith. Faith is the antithesis of science
There was no such thing as “aerodynamics”, “velocity” and “fucking gravity” before science came along?
Someone please tell all the hummingbirds in the world.
BS. Science is only one way of knowing and gaining knowledge, and a limited one at that.
🙄
And yet it and other forms of empiricism have been stunningly successful verses theology and anything else which ignores reality in favour of myths and assumptions about how the world works.
Yeah mate you can choose the universe you inhabit.
You chaps should watch some of Han’s Roslings work.
lolwut?
“There was no such thing as “aerodynamics”, “velocity” and “fucking gravity” before science came along?”
/facepalm
Of course they existed but science helped man discover them, understand them and use them.
“BS. Science is only one way of knowing and gaining knowledge, and a limited one at that.”
Yeah because understanding other ways of knowing put us on the moon, vaccinated us from polio, built the computer you are using etc etc etc etc etc….
“And the difference between a new heart valve being inserted and bleeding a fever victim to realign their humours.”
I think you will find that it was the scientists of the day (doctors) who used bleeding as a treatment.
There’s an interesting and blurred transition from doctors as priests to doctors as scientists, but the reason we don’t try to balance the humours now is science. Major steps like Harvey, Snow, Pasteur, and so on were due to science, not faith or luck.
There will soon be no more priests.
Their work is done..Every man shall be his own priest.
-Walt Whitman
lol
Sure mate, as I discussed earlier this is known as “progress”. Our state of scientific knowledge is so damn good and you must believe in it, until…it’s not.
One of the funniest scenes I remember from Star Trek was Bones McCoy telling a modern, late 20th century doctor that he wasn’t going to allow any witch doctors to work on his patient. “It’s a wonder anyone made it out of the 20th century alive” he smirked.
How many of your siblings or classmates were dead before the age of ten?
That’s fucking progress.
Yeah mate…progress up to 8B humans…9B humans…10B humans…11B humans…12B humans…
better than living in muck next to the graves of your dead siblings.
Oh, and science invented effective birth control.
Frak me mate, western science is a fucking late comer to 50,000 years of extensive human civilisation and human cities.
That’s hardly true.
Show me any pre-science birth control with a <1% failure rate after a month of use.
Yes, science is a late-comer to human existence. And look how far we’ve come in a few hundred years. Yes, new and serious problems have emerged – but where social problems don’t rule the roost we’re usually healthy, strong and long-lived.
You sound like an American.
This western based scientific rule has barely lasted 500 atomic blasted years yet you think its the best thing that human kind has ever achieved in 50,000 years. Gimme a break. The arrogance.
Its out there mate.
And I’m unavoidably amused that you are using this as an example of one of the greatest triumphs of modern science.
Modern contraception is very useful, sure, but it’s trash grade futility mate in the final analysis. You know, once the final sums are tallied up. Humans spent 50,000 years with fewer than 2B of us on the whole planet.
But in just 100 years this number will quadruple. Such is the power of 99% effective contraception.
The march of Progress!
Yeah, and how well would you do in a cave? Like I say, I’d probably be already dead. And that’s not including infant mortality and infanticide of the weak, just some conditions I’ve had in the past.
“Its out there, mate”
Should be easy to show me, then. Thanks to Archaeology. And the interwebz, of course.
Perhaps your ancestors in Western Europe were living in caves 10,000 years ago but a lot of civilisations around the world had already moved on from that mate.
Seriously, the arrogance.
The absence of western science =! living in caves.
True dat.
What major civs were about 10,000 years ago, again? Refresh my mind…
So what’s this <1% failure ancient birth control method?
Well, I might have been exaggerating on the 10,000 year thing. Maybe I should say 5,000-10,000 years ago?
Don’t worry about civilisations, they’re overrated and they never last. There were definitely sophisticated human cultures 10,000 years ago. Australian aboriginal cultures go back at least 5 times that.
Nasty, brutish and short is something that was made up by the English 😉
Definitely short – see my comment of a few minutes ago.
Nasty and brutish are up to individual taste.
Its good now, longer life spans, more seasons of Next Top Model, the opportunity to buy the iPhone31. Like I said, it’s real progress.
More seriously, its not that ancient people didn’t live to 60, 70, 80, etc. Its just that far fewer people made it that far.
Now you’re channeling Robert Atack.
Anyway, I’m off to me warm comfy sheltered bed. Have a good one. And try to find a link to that <1% ancient birth control, just to future reference.
Has been barely around for 500 years?
Utter shit. The ancient Greeks were doing science based upon the scientific method some 2500 years ago. They discovered mathematics principles such as trigonometry which is still in use today and discovered planets and knew the earth was round, even coming within a hairs breadth of accurately measuring the earths size.
500 years? you idiot. Modern science has been built on 1000’s of years of discovery – we stand on the shoulders of giants.
@TC
Nope, dig around in philosophy and history of science some more* 😛
While yes, classical Greek philosophers did get some of the basic science stuff, ultimately when we examine their writings we find that they weren’t so much aiming to understand what they saw, but rather to model it. What they did also lacked the whole internal heavy criticism and peer review thing modern science developed during the 1700’s in Europe.
Ah, more we stand on population growth, and the false starts of older cultures philosophers 😛
______________________________________
*Note: this unit is very tired and last did science history stuff a long time ago
“Sure mate, as I discussed earlier this is known as “progress”.”
Progress?
Development of calculus > Development of theory of gravity > Velocity > Aerodynamics > flight.
Science.
“Our state of scientific knowledge is so damn good and you must believe in it, until…it’s not.”
Science is self-correcting and science never pretends to have all the answers…which is why we always learn. Science demands learning, demands revision, demands re-correction. Always.
“How science dwindles, and how volumes swell,
How commentators each dark passage shun,
And hold their farthing candle to the sun.”
-Young
“I am the Walrus,
I am the egg-man”
precisely
There’s an interesting and blurred transition from doctors as priests to doctors as scientists, but the reason we don’t try to balance the humours now is science. Major steps like Harvey, Snow, Pasteur, and so on were due to science, not faith or luck.
The doctors in the 1800s using bloodletting were most definitely not priests. They were medically trained (in the scientific tradition) practitioners of the day.
William Harvey disproved the basis of the practice in 1628, and the introduction of scientific medicine,la méthode numérique, allowed Pierre Charles Alexandre Louis to demonstrate that phlebotomy was entirely ineffective in the treatment of pneumonia and various fevers in the 1830s. Nevertheless, in 1840, a lecturer at the Royal College of Physicians would still state that “blood-letting is a remedy which, when judiciously employed, it is hardly possible to estimate too highly”,[13] and Louis was dogged by the sanguinary Broussais, who could recommend leeches fifty at a time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodletting
You can of course argue that those doctors weren’t practicing true science, in which case this piece of history demonstrates the gulf between science theory and how it gets practiced in the real world.
Science of the day makes lots of mistakes. It does interesting useful things too, but there are lots of downsides. We should be honest about that.
And little more than a hundred years later antibiotics, blood transfusions and sterilisation were reliably saving lives. That’s science for you.
In fact in some areas we’re back to leeches – for a limited number of conditions based on firm scientific understanding of the causes of the condition and the leech life-cycle.
and in a mere few decades we’ve squandered many of the advantages we gained from antibiotics, through sheer stupidity in part fueled by faith in science.
You seem to be arguing that science has been overwhelmingly good, and you seem unwilling to acknowledge the massive downsides of science.
Climate change, peak oil, overpopulation, colonisation, environmental destruction, rapid species extinction, soil loss leading to imminent mass starvation, syndrome x, radiation poisoning….
I’m glad you have an appreciation of your life, and what science gives you, but your science-granted life comes at a cost, a massive cost. Let’s just be honest about that.
And whether how long science will continue to afford some of the individuals on the planet such a luxurious life remains to be seen.
I love 20 km range artillery munitions which after firing can be guided in flight and deploying over their target area, can direct multiple independent top penetrating submunitions downwards, destroying entire tank companys or multiple enemy troop positions.
The scientific achievement gives me the shivers.
I’m arguing that society is better off with science than without it, using myself as an example.
Medicine is just one example. When the world is back to a billion people with life expectancy in the low/mid double digits, and usually live entirely inside a 5 mile radius, I’ll agree with you.
@CV: I love that we can send a robot to mars. Might even live there, eventually.
Do you really believe that? I don’t think we’ll make it there, because I think we have truly started the long descent.
I’m more than happy to bet you $10 inflation adjusted dollars that no mission will land a human on Mars by 2030. Edit – no human mission that is 😈
Oh yeah we sent a probe to Mars. Sorta like the 1970’s except instead of a lander, we got something which can roll around at maybe 5km/h.
40 years of progress eh.
More of a chance than the Romans had.
Sure, we might miss it due to our own stupidity, but the opportunity is there.
“I’m arguing that society is better off with science than without it, using myself as an example.”
Yes, and sorry to be rude, but that’s just selfish. Are you willing to acknowledge the cost to other humans and the rest of life?
We are now truly in the realm of believe and faith. I don’t have the faith you do in science, I don’t believe that we will migrate off planet, and I honestly hope we don’t. We don’t deserve to go, and we’ll just fuck it up like we have here.
Not to mention that I’m seriously under-impressed by science right this very moment because my mobile broadband is so crap I have to restart it every other minute to get the connection back 😉
I’m sure that the rest of the planet which on average lives roughly twice as long as a couple of hundred years ago is better off, too.
And yeah, I do think life is a bonus for the population.
Night night
Denial is also a form of faith.
It’s like corporate PR for science isn’t it. You always emphasise the upsides, the benefits, the good feeling, the smiling faces; and you always downplay or deny the costs, the damage, the scarcity, the mass consumption, the resulting unhappiness.
Those aren’t downsides of science but of our society which missuses science.
“Oh yeah we sent a probe to Mars. Sorta like the 1970′s except instead of a lander, we got something which can roll around at maybe 5km/h.
40 years of progress eh.”
Ummm, no. Unlike a lander the rover didn’t crash land but descended slowly into the atmosphere using high drag parachute which then detached leaving behind a rocket boosted , self-driving robotic sky crane which slowly winched the one ton rover to the martian surface before flying off so as not to crash land itself into the rover.
Unlike a lander the rover can move, take soil samples, test the atmosphere, take high resolution photographs and has a fucking laser on board which can burn into rocks and ‘sniff’ the resulting smoke/steam to note to composition.
And unlike most of the landers/rovers – this one successfully landed a mere 200 meters for it’s designated landig point intact and operational.
CV – you are so fucking scientifically illiterate that even my 3 year niece understands science better than.
“That’s not science, that’s just progress” you scoff.
…idiot…
We can argue politics sure, and I can very wrong, but one thing I know is science. science is my ‘thing’ you might even say and your total dismissal and misunderstanding couched in your false sense of superiority is not only totally misguided but also offensive.
Translation: DEEEEEEEERP
And I’m too tired, need to dig up old cluebatting of Andrei dealing with this particular “but science was wrongzors!” meme fully.
But anyhow, that’s the fucking nature of science, as we lack perfect knowledge there is always new stuff to be found that was missed in prior work (techniques/tools needed to be invented usually), that could overturn older assumptions and truths if there’s enough evidence. In many respects this flexibility to be wrong is what allows science to work in the first place. As we don;t have to wait for old scholars and their followers to die off, or be forced to cling to written texts as revealed, holy truths. Thus treating this as a negative just indicates possibly your own conservatism when it comes to change and uncertainty.
Meh. The arrogance of scientism.
🙄
And CV hath reached unto the depths of PG territory.
This accusation coming from the classy DEEEEERP Man himself.
Translation: DEEEEEEEERP
Please translate your translation…do you mean (sarcastically) deep? or derp? What??????
Looky see what the ANZ’s been up to in between getting rid of NZ jobs and those pesky marginal retail customers by ditching the black horse.
“The US Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) today announced the filing and simultaneous settlement of charges against Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd. (ANZ), an Australia-based financial services company, for exceeding speculative position limits in wheat and cotton futures contracts in trading on the Chicago Board of Trade and the Intercontinental Exchange US (ICE Futures US). The CFTC order requires ANZ to pay a $350,000 civil monetary penalty and cease and desist from further violations of the position limits provisions of the Commodity Exchange Act and CFTC regulations.”
That would be an investment banking activity, not retail or commercial. JP Morgan got a 600k slap also.
Australian reserve bank cut interest rates by 0.25 pc,NZ up on all currencies around1/2 cent against aus
Lowered interest rates punish savers and boost speculators. This is financial repression in action.
Indeed reward the wasters,punish the savers ,
The RBA cites the RISK in the labour market despite 5.1% unemployment,and is out to protect exporters due to the economic outlook.
http://www.smh.com.au/
I am becoming more convinced that the Troika ( Key ,English ,and Joyce) have no clue,and no plan B.
Fonterra is forecasting a payout of 5.25kg at which level 20% of Farmers will be unable to repay capital.
The only light at the end of the tunnel is that the Kim Dotcom saga will become their Alan Jones moment.
but the damage would already be done.
The Rba governor is quite succinct
The fine judgement came down on the side of the engine needing some stoking now in an effort to build up a head of steam.
The only plan that lot have is to sell off NZ and that’s hit a few bumps due to most people being against it.
Is it possible that thanks to modern medicine that those with intolerances who would have previously died at a very young age, i.e less than 5, and therefore exited the gene pool with their genetic disabilities have survived and thrived whereas up to 100 years ago the birth and early mortality rate was horrific, with some families losing 90% or even all of their progeny.
Modern medicine plays some role, but not the major one I suggest.
– Meals with sufficient calories in a day
– As much clean water as you can use
– Sewerage systems
– Increasing household incomes
– Decent heating, shelter, and power
– Schooling for all children
– An end to child labour
Have accounted for 75% or more of the modern gain in life expectancy.
Wow CV’s human afterall, Welcome M8! 😛
“Have accounted for 75% or more of the modern gain in life expectancy.”
And none were based on modern medical science? Science is how we figure these things out dude.
Yeah, no.
I was talking about the specific discipline of medical treatments here, not science in general.
I’m puttin this one here coz I don’t want to flood the GSCB review article …
“Due diligence” is a term used for a number of concepts involving either an investigation of a business or person prior to signing a contract, or an act with a certain standard of care. It can be a legal obligation, but the term will more commonly apply to voluntary investigations. A common example of due diligence in various industries is the process through which a potential acquirer evaluates a target company or its assets for acquisition
HAS DUE DILIGENCE BEEN FOLLOWED BILL ENGLISH
It looks too me like America did it’s Due Diligence BILL, do they own us BILL?
Luckily they don’t want us that bad AYE BILL!
Selling Mighty River Woul’ve given us another 3 months max,
THEN WHAT BILL?
Why’d they call you morons JOHN, and tell ya ta read it again JOHN YA LISTENING?
Bless ya Bill English for letting me put ya thoughts up here.
I’m nuts by the way.
Another death knell for the RoNS.
Wonder if NACT will hear it?
Wow! Another extraordinary session on Campbell Live tonight over the Christchurch School Closures challenge.
They visited several schools where the data used by the Ministry is wildly in error.
Of 5 clusters of about 15 ? all schools had every building recorded as earthquake damaged – totally untrue.
One school had their jumping pit labelled as liquafaction.
One school is recorded with 50 buildings – has 5. Another 10 but have 15. Wrong rolls and trends in most.
John Campbell used the Ministry’s own documents to interview Parata but she wouldn’t front.
The CEO from the Ministry Mrs Longstone did front, and set sail on loud denial, deflection, over talk, avoidance and straight out mis-speak.
For those who want to get the measure of Mrs Longstone and school closures, this is a must.
Will link when available.
Yes, it was very good legwork journalism. The kind Campbell Live often does, and Son Of Close-Up won’t do, alas.
I wouldn’t be too hard on Longstone – she should never have been put in that position by Hekia Parata. It’s shameful when Ministers hide behind officials … and National have been doing it more and more.
If people want to know why National are losing votes, ask thousands of parents in Christchurch.
Some believe that Longstone was appointed over a year ago with her previous experience at introducing Charter Schools in Britain and the intent to do the same here. She is a hard nut who, like politicians, can deflect and obscure with the best of them. (Can’t spell obscurfate?)
I have no sympathy for her.
National’s spin doctors will be pleased.
Minister hides, viewers take aim at the distraction instead, job done.
Try not to do exactly what National want you to do. Focus on the people we can remove at the ballot box. The generals are in the bunker, not on the front line.
I caught a bit of it – and winced at the thought of being in that position.
But then I remembered that this is exactly what happens when you fire “back office” “bean counters” and boo-row-krats. Data gets crunched badly, and overworked staff either don’t notice or realise it’s not their problem if it’s crap and they have other shit to do. Fuck ’em – you reap what you sow.
BUT she should be able to defend the data on the school. That is fundemental.
They don’t believe in accountability and transparency mate, just their own agendas.
Actually, what she should have done was have the corrected data handy. Or at the very least said it’s being redone, and there is a window for the corrected data to be taken into account prior to the amalgamation/closing process being finalised. Even if in reality the decisions wouldn’t be affected.
Not sit there like a gimp insisting that it was valid.
Nothing seems to change at the Ministry of Ed.
Do you remember that turd that was interviewed over the leaky buildings in schools on close up some years ago during Hosking’s time and just sat there tittering like some kind of lobotomised chimp.
Campbell Live Tuesday. Background first.
Interview with Longstone starts about 10:40
http://ondemand.tv3.co.nz/Campbell-Live-Tuesday-October-2-2012/tabid/119/articleID/8281/MCat/73/Default.aspx
Spanish police may have used under cover provocateurs to start protest violence
As decline deepens, a return to old times.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/29/spain-riot-police
Faith is the state of being ultimately concerned.
-Paul Tillich
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the soul of soulless conditions, the heart of a heartless world.
Karl Marx.
A scientific world doesn’t require any of this sentimental clap trap, according to the scientism faithful.
🙄
I love the smell of burning strawman in the evening…
Know what you believe and have faith in mate.
🙄
😈
“now we’re gettin’ somewhere”-Finn
synthesize away
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10837744
Jailed for two years in Russia for an anti Putin rap performed in a Christian orthodox cathedral. Pussy Riot are a Russian women band notorious for their defiance of authority and for covering their faces with ski masks.
Will French Islammist rapper, Mélanie Georgiades become the West’s version of ‘Pussy Riot’?
Mélanie Georgiades has in open defiance of French anti-hijab laws made an appearance on French TV station TF1 dressed in the hijab.
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/10/01/241253.html
Will the authorities charge this celebrity for openly defying France’s recently passed anti-hijab laws?
http://www.styleite.com/media/french-muslim-women-hijab-fine/
I think you are confusing two things here Jenny (actually the 2nd link also confuses it). She appeared on television wearing a hijab (headscarf) for which there is no law against wearing in public.
There is one that restricts it’s use in schools (passed in 2004): Loi en application du principe de laïcité, le port de signes ou de tenues manifestant une appartenance religieuse dans les écoles, collèges et lycées publics (An Act, as an application of the principle of the separation of church and state, on the wearing of symbols or garb which show religious affiliation in public primary and secondary schools).
Perhaps you are thinking of the recently (2010) passed law: Loi interdisant la dissimulation du visage dans l’espace public (An Act prohibiting concealment of the face in public space) which includes, amongst other things, the niqab (face veil) and the burqa (full body covering if it includes a face covering/veil).
I’m not sure I would describe her as an Islamist which has quite specific political overtones.
We should have started part b of science vs life down here 😉