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Open Mike 02/10/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 2nd, 2016 - 184 comments
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184 comments on “Open Mike 02/10/2016”

  1. Nick 1

    Morning…. Key is the worst kind of cold hearted slimeball… … And his scumbag natz gang are just shocking human beings….. Does politics do that to them, or what?

    • James 1.1

      Morning sunshine. It’s a little early to be so bitter and twisted isn’t it.

      It must be terrible waking up on a Sunday feeling like that.

      Have a coffee, and try to start the day again with a positive attitude. Then you will know how nice it feels to be one of us.

      • Gangnam Style 1.1.1

        “Us” & “Them”. Laid out right there by James. Maybe ‘us’ lefties should wear little stars or something? Since we are one of ‘them’ & not one if ‘us’? Read & weep (or leap for joy, if you are one of ‘them’)…


        “The Auckland Regional Public Health Service announced that the number of cases of rheumatic fever was 36 per cent higher for the first half of this year compared with the same period last year.” How’s that for a measure of poverty & the health of the country? Not much rheumatic fever on the golf course or Koru lounge I guess. Enjoy your (min wage served) coffee.

        • james

          Actually he made the “us and them” argument with the “And his scumbag natz gang are just shocking human beings” comment – by infference people with his / her political view arnt.

          I was simply pointing out s/he is a bitter and twisted person with a sad outlook on life, and us scumbag natz arnt actually shocking human beings – we just dont all have such a sad and pathetic outlook.

          A positive attitude does great things.

          I have one and yes – I wake up most mornings feeling good about the day, the country and the future.

          • Gangnam Style

            As long as no one complains eh comrade?

            • Chuck

              I really don’t know who you activist lefties get through the day…all this horror going on in NZ. It must be hard not to pack your bags and join your bothers and sisters in anyone of the socialist heavens that are dotted around the globe.

              BTW james is dead right, it all starts with a positive attitude 🙂

              • BM

                Agree , surround yourself with negativity and you can’t help but be negative.

                Be an interesting ex[experiment if you took some one like Nick and placed him/her in a large group of positive happy people, I’d bet money within a week or two his/her outlook on life would change

                • Gangnam Style

                  & yet mention the name Andrew Little & you little guys get all negative & bitter & call him names like Angry & Chicken like you are on a school ground.

                  But hey I get it, criticise the Govt = Negative, praising the Govt = Positive.

                  I ain’t no lickspittle, so call me negative, coming from the likes of you sewer dwellers I take it as a compliment. & also, I do wake cheery, my life is good, my job is OK, my bands have records coming out so I feel like a winner, so suck on that!

                  • james

                    Actually – I doubt I have called him Angry or chicken little (if I did it would have been a “one off”).

                    “Morning…. Key is the worst kind of cold hearted slimeball… … And his scumbag natz gang are just shocking human beings….. Does politics do that to them, or what?”

                    That was the comment I was replying to – hardly “criticise the Govt = Negative, praising the Govt = Positive” is it.

                    Yet you go to the likes of calling us sewer dwellers – I think this says a lot more about you than us.

                    • reason

                      I used to think of key as as a sub prime bubble blower ….

                      Now I think of him as the bail out boy ……….and wonder how much charity he took from the u.s.a tax payers when they bailed out his bankrupt worthless ponzi merrill lynch shares ……

                      “Merrill lost more than $27 billion that year. In all, 696 executives received more than $1 million each for helping to crash the storied firm…..”

                      “Bank of America completed the acquisition of Merrill Lynch & Co on 1 January 2009.”

                      …..John keys major paper wealth ( that we know of ) is Bank of America Shares ……

                      BM hates hand outs, or so he would have us believe ……..

                      I wonder what he thinks about Key taking millions in a hand out for staying invested in the toxic reckless and in the end bankrupt Merrill Lynch disaster…..

                      ““Bank of America’s fraud resulted in “one of the biggest reverse transfers of wealth in history – from pensioners to financiers.” ….

                      john keys Register of Pecuniary Interests of Members of Parliament

                      2008: 2 Interests (such as shares and bonds)in companies and business entities
                      Little Nell – property investment
                      MerrillLynch – investment banking
                      JacksonMining – gold mining ……………………

                      And after then the bailout ………….

                      2009: 2 Interests (such as shares and bonds) in companies and business entities
                      Little Nell – property investment
                      Bank of America – banking
                      Jackson Mining – gold mining

                      ““Bank of America’s fraud resulted in “one of the biggest reverse transfers of wealth in history – from pensioners to financiers.” ….

              • millsy

                I dont speak Spanish, Korean or Belarusian.

          • Tautoko Mangō Mata

            FIFY “we just dont all have such a sad and empathetic outlook.”

          • North

            James reminds me of the lady on the Briscoes ads……”Weee! Weee! Weee!”

          • The New Student

            Every day is a great day when the system is geared to favour your questionable existence over everybody else’s

    • Whateva next? 1.2

      James confirms what a load of patronising t***s they are once again

    • Richard Rawshark 2.1

      Ouch, the right wonder why those damn crazy lefties are getting so worked up.

      Who’d have thought we all were pissed off at exactly those things he wrote.

    • garibaldi 2.2

      Oh well, here’s another journo not following Keys “brighter future ” mantra. How long before he gets fired ?

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3

      It’s what happens when you allow the capitalists to rule. They make laws that allows them to own and control the wealth of the nation and charge everyone else for the use of it.

      The inevitable end result is massive poverty and deprivation – just as we’re seeing.

    • Bearded Git 2.4

      This is the nub of the article:

      “The Household Net Worth Survey disclosed that 10 per cent of people own 60 per cent of the country’s wealth, and 40 per cent own a total of 3 per cent.”

      There is fertile ground here for the Labour/Green bloc to put forward policies for more fairness and equality in this country. Grasp the nettle.

  2. Richard Rawshark 3

    Rodney hide speaking common sense for once in the Herald, and it’s not about Labour, perhaps his visit the other day, gave him some foresight into others, and he’s trying to be a little fairer.

    IDNK but it was a good article, have to give him up’s when deserved.

    Lovely weather, for ducks.

    Someone stole my whole letter box Friday night, I was annoyed, a tad, smidgeon, bloody expensive to replace, and after driving around the block several times it was nowhere to be seen, which is unusual drunks usually biff them not far from the scene of their artwork.

    So post on FB for Tokoroa that day, um we woke up there’s two letterboxes in our back yard, some of our mates got qa little drunk last night, happy to drop off, 1 hour later letterbox back, good laugh and off they went, drunk as skunks they were and ended up with a couple letterboxes, ahh the joys of youth.

    But how often does the return thing happen!!! so cool. No problems when it happens just return or fix the damage.. nice. Good on Tokoroa, I reckon if that was a lot of places, the letterbox would never have been returned.

  3. b waghorn 4

    Want to harvest some votes come election time?
    I’ve just spent a week hanging with the clan waghorn (not the real name) Two of whom are young single parents ,one he ,one she , both working full time jobs while juggling children , and school holidays are a thing they hate , more holiday programmes are needed , why not in list uni students to provide care and entertainment .
    if they didn’t have family support they would have to quit their jobs

    Health and safety has gone to insane new levels.
    Wag seniors went to an open home and every one had a safety induction as they entered the house ffs
    A builder tells me that every electric tool has to have it’s cable checked every 3 months at a cost, and that people visiting the house the are having built have to wear steel caps and a helmet ffs.

    oh and according someone who has access to at least a dozen schools says global funding is ”bulk funding on steroids”

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      …why not in list uni students to provide care and entertainment .

      Because they don’t have time.

      A builder tells me that every electric tool has to have it’s cable checked every 3 months at a cost

      A lot cheaper than the builders or someone else’s life.

      Electrical equipment does wear out just like everything else. Resistance builds up in cables until it becomes dangerous, insulation may get cracked in the harsh conditions of a building site and other things go wrong.

      • b waghorn 4.1.1

        Once a year would be often enough , keeping in mind builders use cut switch’s and in general don’t want to die.

        Plenty of students work in the holidays ,

        • Draco T Bastard

          Once a year would be often enough , keeping in mind builders use cut switch’s and in general don’t want to die.

          And that would be fully supported by you builder friend complaining about it…

          Oh, wait.

          I have family in the construction industry and they’re really not as good on their equipment as you say and the cut switches can fail as well.

    • DH 4.2

      I agree on the health & safety b waghorn. It has gone stupid, especially the bureaucracy of it all. Checking & testing appliances isn’t that onerous but the documentation and record keeping is. Tradespeople spend a lot of time just proving they’re complying with health & safety requirements (that’s the only reason they have to document everything)

      The biggest contributor appears to be incremental changes in liability for accidents. If someone does something stupid on your site & hurts themself you’re the one held liable for their stupidity unless you can prove you took all reasonable steps to ensure their safety. So you have to cover your arse with this bollocks of site induction, visitor safety clothing etc etc.

      It’s killing the small business. They can’t amortise the costs of safety compliance as much as the big business can & it makes them less & less competitive.

      • Lanthanide 4.2.1

        You know what really kills a small business? When someone is seriously injured or killed due to their poor practices.

        • DH

          What a stupid comment. Businesses fail for a great many reasons and on percentages very few fail because of poor safety practices.

      • locus 4.2.2

        you’re the one held liable for their stupidity unless you can prove you took all reasonable steps to ensure their safety. So you have to cover your arse with this bollocks of site induction, visitor safety clothing etc etc.

        i think your view is half right half wrong DH

        for anyone who is fully aware of the hazards on a buiding site or who uses sharp/power tools it would take less than 2 minutes to describe the hazards and any required safety measures to visitors…. not a time-consuming or costly effort, and it’s not unreasonable to expect site owners to take appropriate measures to minimise risk…..e.g. for power tools: remove from where kids can play with them, inspect/test cable/cutoff switches daily (tick a box/date to confirm), prevent access to area of ongoing work etc.

        The real problem with H&S is that some people think it is “covering their arse” when they warn others that there’s hot water coming out of a bath tap, like the notices i saw in some hotels in the UK – Just plain stupid…. and it undermines proper consideration and respect for the intent of H&S legislation

        it is not “reasonable” nor the intent of H&S legislation to require people to wear safety clothing if there are no hazards that require it.

        it is not “reasonable” for people who are inexperienced in dealing with workplace hazards and risk controls to give ‘safety’ briefings or to give safety advice….

        The example given of requiring safety boots to visit an open home only emphasises the ignorance of the people stating this ‘requirement’. It is in no way a good argument for challenging H&S legislation…. but it is a good argument for ensuring that safety inductions are only given at hazardous sites by qualified people

        • DH

          Not sure you’ve got that right locus. “Reasonable'” is a subjective term and in most cases the courts tend to look at it from the vista of the “normal person”.

          It’s difficult to consider a visitor to a site as a normal person in any shape or form. They could be anyone, from genius to imbecile, so the level of what is and what is not reasonable in terms of safety for the visitor is wildly speculative. H&S legislation doesn’t really specify to what level of stupidity or IQ we have to cater for and even if it did we’d never be able to identify it anyway.

          ACC can confirm how imbecilic us humans can be so, rationally, it’s not really possible to be too careful. Businesses, and people, do indeed need to cover their arses in these situations.

          • locus

            true – it may be better not to rely too heavily on the word reasonable – for e.g. there’s a few people who think its ‘reasonable’ to remove the pit from an avocado by embedding a sharp knife while holding it in the other hand

            However, when it comes to changing people’s attitudes and getting commitment to safety in the workplace, there must be discussion and education about what managing risk really means and what is ‘reasonable’ in this context

            … maybe i wasn’t clear in my earlier comment – i fully support H&S legislation requiring businesses to correctly assess hazards and dangers and be required to remove, isolate and reduce the likelihood of an accident occurring and to protect people from the consequences

            i’ve always had a bit of a beef about the phrase “cover their arses” because to me it gives the impression that somehow the last barrier in place to protect people (safety boots, hard hats, etc) is all that a business needs to do ‘show’ that they are complying with H&S – While safety clothing may be important or essential, it is the last thing on the list that a business should do in terms of managing safety

            As you rightly point out, people (and particularly businesses) take all sorts of ‘stupid’ risks. More than a few businesses cut corners to save money or time and do whatever they can get away with until legislation stops them.

            H&S legislation covering safety in the design of hazardous equipment, its operation, testing and inspection is necessary – as are regulatory requirements for businesses that manage or operate in hazardous worksites.

            • DH

              Keep in mind, locus, that the discussion was about H&S going too far, it wasn’t about the principle of workplace safety.

              The safety precautions that businesses take are generally related to historical events in similar situations. Take your hotel hot water bath tap for example;

              If someone has previously burnt themselves on the hot tap in a hotel (and I believe that has occurred on more than one occasion) then it’s not that insensible for hotels to warn people about hot water. They know hot water burns ergo if someone did burn themself, and they weren’t warned about it, the hotel could be held negligent.

              You think it’s over the top because you’d never burn yourself on the hot tap. But the hotel isn’t concerned about you they’re concerned about the lowest common denominator, thus the proliferation of safety regulations for imbeciles. A problem with that is the rest of us have to suffer these fools rules as well.

    • Lanthanide 4.3

      “Health and safety has gone to insane new levels.
      Wag seniors went to an open home and every one had a safety induction as they entered the house ffs”

      That’s not a problem with the health and safety legislation, that’s a problem with real estate agents (and agencies) not understanding how the law applies to them and over-reacting.

      “A builder tells me … that people visiting the house the are having built have to wear steel caps and a helmet ffs.”
      The builder also does not understand the new legislation.

      If anyone wants to read up more about this:

  4. Colonial Viper 5

    Trump was right

    His debate microphone and sound levels had problems, admits the “Presidential Debate Commission”.


  5. Chooky 6

    What they don’t ask on the msm…Is the USA end game to fracture Syria and release the rest of the Golan Heights to Israel?


    ‘Direct aggression by US against Damascus to cause ‘tectonic shift’ in Middle East – Moscow’


    …”“If the US launches a direct aggression against Damascus and the Syrian Army, it would cause a terrible, tectonic shift not only in the country, but in the entire region,” Maria Zakharova said during a talk show, which is to be aired fully later on Saturday and has been cited by RIA.

    With no government in Damascus, there will be a power vacuum in Syria, which “so-called moderates, who are, in reality, not moderate at all but just terrorists of all flavors, would fill; and there will be no dealing with them,” the diplomat predicted.

    “And later it would be aggravated the way it happened in Iraq. We know that [Saddam Hussein’s] Iraqi Army became the basis of the Islamic State. Everything that both the [US-led] coalition and Russia are fighting now stems from it,” Zakharova said….

    • Richard Rawshark 6.1

      ” the diplomat predicted.”

      right, file, under many ulterior motives.

      and switch off.

      • Morrissey 6.1.1

        Your problem, Rawshark, is that you are too prepared to “switch off.” How about giving the matter at hand some serious consideration instead of writing it off with a glib dismissal like that?

        • Colonial Viper

          Strong remnants of the western imperial/colonial mindset:

          Some people from other cultures are trying to say something to us, but its a lot of effort to pay attention to their primitive smoke signals

          And chances are that they aren’t saying anything important and furthermore, being backward and weak they can’t do anything to stop us so who cares what noises they make as it’s not going to change a single thing we do?

      • Chooky 6.1.2

        @ Richard Rawshark

        Diplomats on the ground are not always wrong .

        Look at the facts…isnt this is what has happened in Iraq, Libya and now they are trying to make happen in Syria

        1) …the leader is got rid of /taken out on some pretext

        2.) the government collapses and with it law and order breaks down

        3.) the country is plundered

        4.) the country is splintered and war riven between rival factions and religious groups and terrorists

        5.) Isis takes over in the chaos…slaughter ensues

        6.) the people flee their lands as refugees to Europe

        6.) USA/Israel hand in the Middle East is strengthened

  6. Richard Rawshark 7

    Any building site, hard hat, steel capped boots, that’s been the norm for years.

    Not to sure on the open home safety induction, that’s not any rule.

    3 months for cable checks? I did think it was 2 years, from the engineering co I worked at or was it a year? Hmmm. they came in from the local Electrical company and stickers all the appliances, and cables etc, but not every three months.

    Earliest yearly.

    anyways don’t panic I have it under good authority Paula Bennett is right on it and a hungry group of well paid National party experts on the feild are on their way to loopy rules bust, a loopy rule near you

    Heard of Myth busters, here in NZ we have loopy *uckers.

    • millsy 7.1

      “3 months for cable checks? I did think it was 2 years, from the engineering co I worked at or was it a year? Hmmm. they came in from the local Electrical company and stickers all the appliances, and cables etc, but not every three months.”

      I think its 3 or 4 years for the company I worked for.

      • DH 7.1.1

        It varies, to find out for certain you need to buy the relevant standard (usually AS/NZS3760-2010) which costs about $100.

        For factories, workshops, places of manufacture, assembly, maintenance or fabrication equipment including Class 1, Class 2, cord sets, cord extensions and EPODs have to be tested every 6 months.

        In an environment where the equipment or flexible power cord is subject to flexing in normal use or is open to abuse or is in a hostile environment it’s every 12 months (that I would think covers construction sites, tradies tools etc)

        (In the opposite environment to the above, ie non flexing & non hostile etc it’s every 5 years)

        Hire equipment requires test & tag every 3months, plus inspection on each hire

        RCDs need a push button test by the user every 3-6 months

        And etc etc …..

  7. Morrissey 8

    Those flags should be at half-mast for his thousands of victims;
    Arch-criminal Shimon Peres was the antithesis of a man of peace.

    He was a prime instigator of Israel’s internationally condemned nuclear program, and his personal catch-phrase was “Settlements everywhere.” As one of the commentators in the following video notes, “He was a genocidal maniac who murdered thousands.”…


    • Stunned Mullet 8.1

      A great man may he rest in peace.

      Achieved more is his life than all the bleaters and moaners on blogs around the world combined .

      • Morrissey 8.1.1

        People like you wrote similar eulogies for another “great man” who perished in April 1945…..


        • Red

          Well that comparison places you in bat shit crazy camp, say no more

          • Morrissey

            I don’t think you possess either the knowledge or the judgement to make such a statement.

            The comparison of Israel’s oppression of the Palestinian people to the oppression of Jews in Europe in the 1930s and ’40s is often made by Israeli people of conscience, and even by Israeli politicians, including Moshe Dayan and David Ben Gurion himself. Less than a decade ago, the hardline Israeli politician Yosef “Tommy” Lapid made the same point….

            Lapid said in a weekly commentary on Israel Radio in early 2007, after airing of video footage showing a Palestinian woman being viciously verbally attacked through the iron bars on the veranda of her downtown Hebron home by a neighboring Israeli woman settler – who among other things called the Palestinian woman a “Sharmuta” (“whore”), that what was happening in Hebron reminded him of persecution endured by Jews in his native Yugoslavia on the eve of World War Two. “It was not crematoria or pogroms that made our life in the diaspora bitter before they began to kill us, but persecution, harassment, stone-throwing, damage to livelihood, intimidation, spitting and scorn,” Lapid said in his radio commentary.


      • Chooky 8.1.2

        Hardly a “great man”…more like a war criminal!

        By Robert Fisk ( The Independent) on Peres:

        ‘Shimon Peres was no peacemaker. I’ll never forget the sight of pouring blood and burning bodies at Qana –

        Peres said the massacre came as a ‘bitter surprise’. It was a lie: the UN had repeatedly told Israel the camp was packed with refugees’


        “When the world heard that Shimon Peres had died, it shouted “Peacemaker!” But when I heard that Peres was dead, I thought of blood and fire and slaughter.

        I saw the results: babies torn apart, shrieking refugees, smouldering bodies. It was a place called Qana and most of the 106 bodies – half of them children – now lie beneath the UN camp where they were torn to pieces by Israeli shells in 1996. I had been on a UN aid convoy just outside the south Lebanese village. Those shells swished right over our heads and into the refugees packed below us. It lasted for 17 minutes…

    • swordfish 8.2

      The 50 year Israeli colonisation of occupied Palestinian land is, of course, at the heart of the conflict.

      And the greatest single increase of Israeli settlers on Palestinian land – a 50 per cent rise – took place not under Right-wing Sharon or Netanyahu Likud Administrations but rather in 1992-96 under the supposedly “dovish” Labor governments of “peace-makers” Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres at the high-water mark of the Oslo peace accords.

      Israel has now effectively annexed 42 per cent of the West Bank, with 300,000 settlers there and another 200,000 in East Jerusalem

      The romanticisation of Peres and Rabin in the MSM has been all too predictable.

      Both saw the Oslo “Peace Process” as a Palestinian surrender. As Peres told a gathering of ambassadors in Jerusalem during the second stage of the Oslo process, the permanent settlement envisaged by Oslo would categorically not involve any establishment of a functioning Palestinian state. In other words: no meaningful departure from the long-standing Likud-Labor consensus that there was to be no “additional Palestinian state in the Gaza district and in the area between Israel and Jordan” (“additional” because Israeli leaders and propagandists like to portray Jordan as the Palestinian State).

      As Israeli political scientist, Meron Benvenisti, described the bounds of the mainstream Israeli spectrum during Oslo: at one extreme, “a peace which imposes an unconditional surrender on the Palestinians,” at the other, “a peace with somewhat more generous terms of surrender.”

      Like all other Israeli leaders, then, Peres was a Rejectionist when it came to the two-state settlement predicated on International Law. Although it’s certainly true that he managed to cynically manipulate a series of American Celebs (read Useful Idiots) in his Peace Foundation charade with the aim of cultivating a Peace-Maker image within the western media (I remember dear old Sharon Stone suggesting she’d “kiss just about anybody” if she thought it would end the conflict.

      Extraordinary that he should be portrayed as a great man of peace, “haunted by Israel’s failure to find an enduring settlement with the Palestinians.”

      • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1

        The 50 year Israeli colonisation of occupied Palestinian land is, of course, at the heart of the conflict.

        It’s more like 70 years. The entirety of Israel is an invasion of Palestinian land with it’s creation being fully against the UN Charter.

        The romanticisation of Peres and Rabin in the MSM has been all too predictable.

        Of course it has. Can’t go round telling people that the West and the UN has been supporting a massive invasion and oppression of an entire people for the benefit of another people and all, seemingly, because a few people didn’t want Jews living in their countries.

        Extraordinary that he should be portrayed as a great man of peace, “haunted by Israel’s failure to find an enduring settlement with the Palestinians.”

        Probably haunted by the fact that he hadn’t been able to totally destroy the Palestinian people.

      • Chuck 8.2.2

        “haunted by Israel’s failure to find an enduring settlement with the Palestinians.”

        With Hamas wanting the complete extermination of Jews, it does make it a little hard to find an enduring settlement.

        • Draco T Bastard

          With Hamas wanting the complete extermination of Jews

          [citation needed]

          And we actually do know that the Jews want to wipe out the Palestinians. They say so all the bloody time.

          The Palestinians are the victims of an unjust invasion that the rest of the world forced upon them.

          • Chuck

            Hamas’ charter calls for the destruction of the State of Israel and its replacement with a Palestinian Islamic state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.


            “Hamas has not recognized the three principles insisted on by the Quartet (the United States, EU, UN, and Russia): renunciation of violence, recognition of Israel, and acceptance of prior international agreements.”


            • Morrissey

              …renunciation of violence…

              You mean like Israel, the United States and the United Kingdom have renounced violence?

            • Draco T Bastard

              The destruction of the state of Israel != complete extermination of the Jews.

              Interestingly enough, the creation of Israel was the unjust action that’s caused all the problems and it was fully against the UN charter of protecting states from invasion.

  8. joe90 9

    3 months for cable checks? I did think it was 2 years, from the engineering co I worked at or was it a year? Hmmm. they came in from the local Electrical company and stickers all the appliances, and cables etc, but not every three months.

    There doesn’t seem to be anything on the energysafety site that mandates anything other than a formal test, tag and record regime, daily visual inspections and RCD push button tests and a requirement for electrical testing of kit after repairs are made.




  9. Colonial Viper 10

    Me too, I’ve noticed the reply function coming and going this morning (Firefox, Windows 8)

  10. Incognito 11

    Democracy is in bad shape if its core principles are subordinate to economic principles such as expediency and efficiency. I think this is the case and is a root cause of rising inequality and it needs to be challenged.

    Recently, several arguments were put forward here on TS why, in political elections, not all candidates deserve equal air time and exposure. Without exception, these arguments were rooted in neo-liberal thinking! I wrote this comment because this was a fairly typical example of how neo-liberalism has invaded our lives and our thinking; it has become the reference framework of our time and it has a domineering influence on the framing of socio-politico issues and, as such, on the narrative of most written & spoken publications and communications.

    A candidate’s popularity and public support are often determined through political polls, which are intrinsically flawed, at best. To avoid perpetuating these flaws polls should be ignored altogether, i.e. all candidates should be treated equally and fairly, and not be included or excluded on the basis of flawed information. To exclude a candidate a priori is to deem him/her and/or his/her policy platform inferior.

    Similarly, no (democratic) system can or should pick winners. Any attempt at pre-selecting winners, to narrow down the field for the final contest leaves it open to lobbying, manipulation or worse. This selection bias is an obvious problem but it also shuts out voices & opinions that are thus more likely to stay chronically ignored. In any case, it is about fair representation, not just simply winning, and moves to skew the process will further entrench inequality.

    Another reason to triage the candidates is to allow more time for each pre-selected candidate to have his/her say and for a bigger share of public attention. In other words, make it easier for the public by limiting their choice to just 2-3 candidates. This unlevels the playing field in favour of picked winners; one could call this unfair competition.

    There is no need to draw a line somewhere or pick a point that is appropriate if this is intrinsically undemocratic. If barriers are raised for some to have their say it is no longer a decision-making process by and for the collective. Taking this one step further, it could encourage ‘disobedience’ with the collective decisions and ignoring the (democratic) authority of the collective. How many steps away is this from neo-liberalism?

    The quality and principles of the democratic process should never be sacrificed for reasons such as better allocation of ‘resources’ (time, public attention span, number of page views, viewer’s ratings, etc.) since this, in turn, undermines its capacity and fundamental role in allocation of all resources for the collective.

    Will any of this put people further off engaging with politics or will it appeal? Obviously, people have busy lives, short attention spans and many distractions. But people also realise that once you start to chip away at the democratic foundations of our society and when you do not safeguard these against ‘wear & tear’ it leads to unintended and undesirable consequences.

  11. Morrissey 12

    I know Mr Peres was not a monster, Anne. Compared to Netanyahu, he was a decent man. Compared to Netanyahu.

    I just don’t think a person with his record should be honoured by having the flags at half-mast, as Obama ordered all government departments to do.


    • rhinocrates 12.1

      Thinking of “Compared to Netanyahu”, I wonder if Obama’s order was a message to Netanyahu. The two have a very frosty relationship.

  12. The Chairman 13

    Eighty plus thousand dollars, two years later and still no pond?


    What’s going on Kapiti Coasters?

    • The Chairman 13.1

      On a side note, did anybody notice how the article above was spun?

      The pond has a leak that they can’t seem to locate, yet the way the article was written, evaporation has largely been given the blame.

  13. Colonial Viper 14

    Clinton lead in Pennsylvania almost gone

    Clinton +10% against Trump 6 weeks ago, +6% three weeks ago.

    Now at only +1.8%.

    Those of you watching the US race will understand how significant this move away from Clinton is.


  14. left for dead 15


  15. Halfcrown 16

    It’s Sunday so lets have a bit of a laugh for a change.

    Just heard a news item :- Auckland has had heavy rain and there is FLASH flooding.

    Funny that I thought, Typical Auckland couldn’t have your ordinary everyday flooding, no, being Auckland they had to have “FLASH” flooding.

    Why is it Auckland always gets the best?

    • Anne 16.1

      Well, I s’pose its cos this is where most of the flash celebrity media types live so it stands to reason our floods are flash as opposed to your region’s floods which I s’pose doesn’t have any flash celebrities living in it.

      I mean Auckland’s got Mike Hosking so of course the floods are going to be flash. 😈

    • TopHat 16.2

      Yeah, I notice Auckland always gets these new newfangled “Weather Bombs,” too.
      Yet in Wellington we only get wind 😛

      • halfcrown 16.2.1

        “Yet in Wellington we only get wind”

        I kid you not. A teaspoon of Fennel seeds does the trick

    • Fran 17.1

      Sadly, she has spoken an inconvenient truth, we are riddled with structural and institutional racism in this country and most people are blissfully unaware of the very real negative consequences. It is much easier to blame the victims of that racism than deal with the underlying issues.

  16. Nice comment on the fbook from Nandor Tanczos

    “I’m sick of hearing the lie that Māori signed away their sovereignty with the Treaty. Read the Treaty – the Maori language version that Hobson and most of the Rangatira actually signed. Read the speeches – recorded by William Colenso at the time and published as a book. Māori were being asked for permission to set up a system to govern the unruly Pākeha, not to rule Māori. Hence decades of war when Pākeha decided to change the rules.”

  17. rhinocrates 21

    Try not to laugh. Once you get past the obvious, it’s pretty sad. Demagoguery fosters and exploits this kind of thinking.


    Like millions of others, she believed that President Obama was a Muslim. And like so many she had gotten to know online through social media, she also believed that he was likely gay, that Michelle Obama could be a man, and that the Obama children were possibly kidnapped from a family now searching for them.

  18. AsleepWhileWalking 22

    WIKILEAKS reveals George Soros instructed Hillary Clinton as secretary of state – surprising no one.


  19. The Chairman 23

    “What I would do is push Government to stop foreign investment in existing houses,” Goff said on the Hui this morning.


    Why not go for the tax option, Goff?


    Key has already planted the seed, laying down good reasoning for it. Therefore, it would be difficult for him to now argue against that reasoning.

    Another aspect that is beneficial to a land tax over Labour’s new build only policy is a land tax will help cover the infrastructure cost burden that comes with building new homes.

    Labour’s position (limiting offshore investors to only buying new builds) still puts international demand pressure on local land supply, thus driving up the cost of land, hence adding to the overall cost of housing. Which defeats the objective.

  20. joe90 24

    No wonder actual n*zis love the guy.

    • Colonial Viper 24.1

      Of course you have to have the “right genes.”

      If you were young and Black for example, there’s every chance that you might be a criminal “super predator” with “no conscience” and “no empathy.”

      • joe90 24.1.1

        If actual n*zis supported Clinton you’d have a point.

        That's strange, seems America today has a lot in common with the most enriching time in the German people's history.#Trump2016 #Pepe #MAGA pic.twitter.com/GV4G13n7C1— David Duke (@DrDavidDuke) October 1, 2016

        • Colonial Viper

          Investment bankers and hedge funds support Hillary.

          That’s even worse.

          • marty mars

            5ppm perhaps *snort

          • rhinocrates

            Anne Frank’s family disagree:


            Incidentally, my stepfather’s cousins were in the same annexe… and then the same camp. They left in the form of smoke.

            • Colonial Viper

              Both Anne Frank’s family, and you, should ask about the role of huge American corporations like the Ford Motor Company, and American banks like JP Morgan Chase in making the Third Reich a tangible physicality.

              It is these global mega-corporations and financiers who support Clinton.

              See what I mean, now.

              • rhinocrates

                Damn, they tried the wrong people at Nuremberg!

                It was the N*zis who ran the trains and the gas chambers you patronising sack of shit. Don’t you fucking lecture me on how N*zis were doing the will of other people. That was THEIR ideology, their actions. Their spawn are the ones waving flags for your hero now.

                Polish your jackboots if you like mate, you can always have someone else to blame using that logic.

                • One Two

                  With the help of companies like IBM who played a part running the camps and the American banks who financed so much of it

                  Along with the nation’s responsible for creating the conditions leading to the rise of the Third Reich, CV’s point is valid

                  Claiming to have direct connection neither increases your perspective nor does it diminish anyone else’s

                • In Vino

                  Steady on. It is true that big US money helped support the Third Reich during the 1930s. It does not mean that they knew what the manic Nazis would eventually do, but it still does not reflect well upon the policies of our very right-wing US Corporates. It is sometimes a habit of theirs, going by US interference in other countries since.

                • Colonial Viper

                  I should have mentioned General Electric as well.

                  It’s not my problem that you are so close to this that your brain turns off.

                  It was the N*zis who ran the trains and the gas chambers

                  But who built and funded them?

                  That was THEIR ideology, their actions.

                  So fucking what? Without a compliant greedy corporate machinery, that ideology would have been just another flash in the pan bout of crazy paranoid schizo that no one would have noticed or paid attention to.

                  Look up the photo of Henry Ford receiving Nazi Germany’s highest civilian honour. His company enabled the Blitzkrieg.

        • One Two

          Given the amount of time you blatantly spend trawling the net, the links you post are sub standard

          Trawling the net only to satiate your confirmation bias and self stated ABT position will be making you sick if you are not already

          The Bush Family support and have supported The Clintons for decades and you can’t get more na*i/fasc*st than that!

          Pull yourself together it’s getting ridiculous

          • joe90

            Clueless chump says what …..?…..yawn

            • One Two

              And you don’t even have the emotional nous to respond with anything other than a confirmation of my assessment!

              Whomever or wherever you are and for the sake of those close to you, try a little harder to expand your thinking capacity mate

              • joe90

                Why do you think I would bother responding to you and your arcane claptrap on any other level when on more than one occasion I’ve indicated I’d rather you fucking ignored me you muppet.

  21. joe90 25

    Smack dab in the middle of his ongoing meltdown, too.

    Pages from Trump's tax records were mailed to @susannecraig. The return address claimed they came from Trump Tower. https://t.co/3Q8G32swes— NYT Politics (@nytpolitics) October 2, 2016

    Donald J. Trump declared a $916 million loss on his 1995 income tax returns, a tax deduction so substantial it could have allowed him to legally avoid paying any federal income taxes for up to 18 years, records obtained by The New York Times show.

    The 1995 tax records, never before disclosed, reveal the extraordinary tax benefits that Mr. Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, derived from the financial wreckage he left behind in the early 1990s through mismanagement of three Atlantic City casinos, his ill-fated foray into the airline business and his ill-timed purchase of the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan.

    Tax experts hired by The Times to analyze Mr. Trump’s 1995 records said that tax rules especially advantageous to wealthy filers would have allowed Mr. Trump to use his $916 million loss to cancel out an equivalent amount of taxable income over an 18-year period.


    • joe90 25.1


      How our reporters confirmed the documents were authentic: Trump's 80-year-old former tax preparer. https://t.co/Dlg98LRQtu pic.twitter.com/aDWOImlTsw— Nick Confessore (@nickconfessore) October 2, 2016

      Trump's ex-accountant for more than 30 years: "The guy was building incredible net worth and not paying tax on it" https://t.co/mCwgHKg6eJ— The New York Times (@nytimes) October 2, 2016

      How does a business genius lose $916M in a year the stock market returned 37%?Unless it was a Brewster's Millions-like wager!? https://t.co/ZNH87Q9GAC— Micah Zenko (@MicahZenko) October 2, 2016


      • Colonial Viper 25.1.1

        I think Trump has been doing the same thing with his taxes as all the mega-corporations which support Hillary are doing.

        • rhinocrates

          If you admit his financial fiddling is the same, why are you shaking your pom poms for this emotionally unstable eugenics-obsessed, nuke-loving, elitist tax-evading, accused rapist, racist misogynist?

          “Buuuut KKKillary eats live kittens!” and a stab at google is less of a response than a tic or conditioned reflex. It has no content. You can google anything. Every time you type that you admit that Trump is the same as what you claim to despise.

          You like to cherry-pick polls that agree with you, even Nate Silver’s synergistic poll …when it agrees with you. I suppose now that your predicted bounce for Trump didn’t eventuate (in fact Clinton had the sharp rise according to 538, will you be back to reading Dilbert for secret messages from Yoda Adams?

          I hardly think Hillary Clinton is ideal or even good, and American plutocracy is corrupt and she won’t fix it, and Trump won’t change one thing for the better – he boasts of taking advantage of the housing crisis that threw so many poor working people out of their homes, he boasts of evading taxes, his tax plan will cut taxes enormously for the rich and he openly crows of his intention to commit war crimes (an overt policy of targeting civilian non-combatants and torture will all be increased, he says) – there is NOT ONE THING that he will do that will help the poor and he has a Strangelovean love of aggression that will drag America into still more bloody wars.

          As well as that, frankly, there is the brownshirted elephant in the room that you “shrug” at. Fascism is a thing to dread and to stop because its even worse – it is certainly not some aesthetic faux pas to be brushed off.

          You should look at the actual unashamed N*zis cheering Trump alongside you. Have a look at the people he’s appointing like Pence, an appallingly misogynist religious fundamentalist, as his running mate… and ask yourself some serious questions about basic human decency.

          Do you just have schadenfreude contemplating the damage he’ll do? I’ve not seen one indication that you care about the people he has hurt or boasts of intending to hurt.

          • Colonial Viper

            I’ve explained my position on Trump. He will be the better POTUS for NZ, he will be the better POTUS for the Asia Pacific, and he will seek de-confliction with both China and Russia by defanging the neocons in D.C.

            I understand that the US Deep State may not allow any of this to happen.

            For the American people, I fear that I do not hold much hope for betterment of their situation under either Clinton or Trump.

            • rhinocrates

              He will seek a safer Pacific? A man who’s promised a trade war with China if he doesn’t get his own way? Someone with the self-control of General Jack D. Ripper?

              I understand that the US Deep State may not allow any of this to happen.

              Setting up for “The election was rigged!” already, I see.

              For the American people, I fear that I do not hold much hope for betterment of their situation under either Clinton or Trump.

              Ugh, the sort of hypocritical unctuousness suitable for Uriah Heep.

              • Colonial Viper

                I have no problem with TRADE wars Rhinocrates.

                But Clinton doesn’t do TRADE wars. She does ACTUAL wars of regime change and neocon hubris, as well as brinksmanship in the South China Sea and the Middle East/Eastern Europe with Russia.

                I explained my position and rationale; I can understand why you might not like it, but if you don’t want to hear it, simply don’t ask me next time.

                • rhinocrates

                  And trade wars harm no-one? And they can’t escalate if one side is a thin-skinned narcissist who asks “If we have nuclear weapons, why don’t we use them?”


            • Chooky

              +100 CV…well said

    • joe90 25.2

      Aww ref, they must be some other blokes……

      A friend of Donald Trump’s recently approached him to suggest that he will eventually have to release his tax returns, as every presidential nominee has for decades. The friend told Trump that he should do it before the GOP convention to ensure everyone can process what’s in the returns and help make any revelations “old news” by November. If Trump didn’t do that, he was warned, the odds of politicized leaks from his returns were high, citing several examples from the Obama era, including the illegal leaking of some of Romney’s tax information by the IRS in 2012

      “What will you do if the returns come out as part of an October surprise?” Trump was asked. Trump pondered the question and replied, “I’ll say they aren’t mine.” That stunning answer is the essence of Donald Trump. “It’s exactly what I’d expect him to say,” Fox Business’s Charlie Gasparino, who has known Trump for decades, told me.


  22. Andre 26

    Allegedly this is comedy satire, but it looks pretty much like the real thing to me…


  23. Takere 27

    A Public Park which Aucklanders cant get access too unless your a member of the Remuera Golf Club which the Auckland Rate payers subsidies members at $12k/head! They got a contract running to 2091 from the council! Fuck’em build houses on it!

  24. b waghorn 28


    ”To say that the dam will inevitably have that effect is like saying that anyone who owns an axe will inevitably become an axe murderer.”

    According to this man greenpeace haven’t done their homework around the ruataniwha dam

  25. NixSaved 29

    Something random: I was wondering if anyone out there knows if this Ofisa Tonu’u from http://www.labour.org.nz/auckland_candidates (Puketapapa Local Board) is the former All Black?

  26. rhinocrates 30

    Reply button’s playing up again, so:

    So fucking what?

    Jesus Christ. Your blithe indifference to the concept of culpability suggests the moral development of a spoiled infant.

    Without a compliant greedy corporate machinery, that ideology would have been just another flash in the pan bout of crazy paranoid schizo that no one would have noticed or paid attention to.

    Look up the photo of Henry Ford receiving Nazi Germany’s highest civilian honour. His company enabled the Blitzkrieg.

    There have been plenty of witch hunts and pogroms done on the cheap with happy volunteer labour. Without the intention to do evil, that money could have been spent growing daffodils.

    A wee pointer on learning history: google and the teachings of Dogbert do not educate you.

    N*zism and its cousin fascism were no “flash in the pan” but broad an deep movements with sympathetic movements and parties in many states, even Britain (Moseley’s lot). If you knew the slightest bit about history, which clearly you do not, you would know that mere blind corporate investment in factories is not what motivates millions to slaughter millions. It was the choice of N*zis to do so with their many, many adherents. If you care to “look up” the writings of Himmler on “Blood and Soil” and “Living Space” you’ll see the basis of their ideology and decisions. There are some pretty weird occultist beliefs behind Himmler too.

    That “flash in the pan” is more of a bale of straw needing a spark.

    Ford etc are probably unknowingly complicit, though Ford was a rabid anti-semite and admired the N*zis.

    However, those who choose to commit atrocities – the leaders and their millions of followers – are the ones responsible. They are not absolved by silly insistence that the sole source of evil in the world is an American boardroom and nowhere else.

    • Colonial Viper 30.1

      Talking about modern day atrocities and those who commit them, and those sickeningly self righteous left wing progressives who go on to give it a pass

      Remind me whose US administration it was who starved and deprived millions of Iraqi children of medical care and food through sanctions such that 500,000 of those children died, and when their Sec State was asked about it on TV she said that “it was worth it.”

      Clue: one of the current Presidential candidates was married to him.

      • rhinocrates 30.1.1

        “Talking about…”

        That’s a really clumsy and childish attempt at a diversion, even for you.

        Do you really think this is some weird arithmetic where points on one side cancel points on the other?

        Who exactly does that absolve?

        Go back to your sand pit.

        • Colonial Viper

          Says the man trying to equate Donald Trump, a liberal New York Democrat at heart, with Adolf Hitler.

          By the way, the answer you couldn’t stomach was Clinton.

          And for the 500,000 to 600,000 Syrian deaths so far, the answer is Obama/Clinton.

          But none of these Iraqi people or Syrian people or Libyan people are your relatives, right?

          • rhinocrates

            Liberal New York Democrat at heart

            As evidenced by all he’s been saying and doing? With all his racisms and misogyny? With his active support for and from N*zis? I’m not just name calling and saying he’s “poopy-pants” or whatever. The bedsheets, the swastikas and the goose stepping among his supporters is all real… But at heart he’s a liberal?

            (So I equate him with Hitler? Yeah I do. So does Anne Frank’s family – and they were there seeing it the first time around.)

            Latest is a pledge to sign a federal law allowing discrimination against LGBT people on the basis of “religious freedom” exclusively for right wing Christians. Liberal, right?

            Anyway, that’s been covered, so what you’re saying is a flat lie. Repeating it won’t make it true.

            I know perfectly well what the answer is, and spare me your crocodile tears for people you simply use yourself as tokens in your rhetorical games.

            I said evil is evil and there is no game you can play that absolves one side or renders it irrelevant. What you did was a rhetorical diversion and now you are deliberately misrepresenting me.

            Every time you say “Hillary eats live kittens” you are saying that eating live kittens is wrong. True indeed, but if another person eats live kittens, two wrongs have been committed, not one. No blame has been lifted. This does not bring balance to the Force. Trump remains a loathsome bastard with the support of loathsome bastards.

            I say he’s a loathsome bastard releasing old demons that will not be stopped easily and they are worse than you can imagine with your limited faculties and weird obsession.

            So: idiot and a liar.

            • TheExtremist

              “Do you really think this is some weird arithmetic where points on one side cancel points on the other?”

              See the False Equivalence post. That’s CV too a T. He can’t get his head around “not supporting Trump does not equal supporting Clinton”. All comments regarding Trump, Russia or Putin are met with the same response. Deflect to Clinton and accuse the questioner of somehow being complicit in allowing the West to bomb the shit out of everywhere.

              • rhinocrates

                Pure speculation on my part, but CVs presentation is similar to people who have been disillusioned and betrayed. Their world is turned upside down, what they pledged allegiance to they now hate, they feel abject and as catharsis obsessively latch on to clear incarnations of what disappointed them as a hate figure and a hero who more often than not is a scourge by proxy (collateral damage be damned).

                Not really psychology, more lit crit (which is my “official” area of expertise) and CVs not really a literary character of course.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Keep on piling up the personal attacks and abuse, Rhinocrates, I don’t mind, get it out of your system.

            • Colonial Viper

              rhinocrates, it seems that you and the rest of the righteous liberal lefty establishment better get ready to lose the election on Nov 8 to a bunch of racist, red neck, misogynist, gay hating, uneducated, deplorables and irredeemables, then.

              By the way,

              • and you’ll be at the front cheering them on, smiling slyly as they begin metaphorically fashioning their nooses.

                • rhinocrates


                  • thought it was a bit too much without that

                    But you have his number – the mind numbingly distorted convolutions he makes to try and escape his own tail. Lies built on bullshit topped with lashings of fake tears and throw your granny under the bus political points scoring – and trump is just as bad

            • Colonial Viper

              rhinocrates, it seems that you and the rest of the righteous liberal lefty establishment better get ready to lose the election on Nov 8 to a bunch of racist, red neck, misogynist, gay hating, uneducated, deplorables and irredeemables, then.

              BTW how is your precious LGTBQ community doing in Libya nowadays, since Hillary Clinton allowed Islamic extremists to implode and take over the country?

              Wake up and smell the real evil, the real dehumanising haters.

              • TheExtremist

                Hows the LGTB community doing in Russia?

              • rhinocrates

                Schadenfreude? I’m going to get my comeuppance am I?

                My “precious” LGBT community? I think my friends there prefer “fabulous.”

                Your sarcasm shows your callousness. Yet then there are more crocodile tears for LGBT people in Syria that you dismissed so sarcastically. Mere rhetorical tokens again, not real people.

                Somehow I think I can be forgiven for thinking of you playing with action figures going “Grrrr! Yarrr! Take that faggot-lover!”

                The real evil? There’s only one?

                Where do you get the impression that I support Clinton? I’ve never said such a thing. Is it from from the voices in your head? It is as if you were at a performance of Hamlet and all you hear is “Blah blah blah blah Clinton!”, then go to a park and hear the tulips muttering “Clinton, Clinton, Clinton.” You are genuinely obsessed.

                Get help.

                • TheExtremist

                  Like I said, questioning CV makes you a Clinton supporter

                  • rhinocrates

                    Morbidly interesting in a way… and I must admit to deliberately needling him. I’m a writer and I’m thinking my next-novel-but-one which might look at the rise of an extremist group (kind of a theme in the one I’m working on now). Crazy would-be Fuhrers are plentiful and most fail, but like a storm, if the field is charged, lighting will strike. The “charge” is the millions who will become their followers. CV shows me how formerly sane and decent individuals (and he’s still driven by a speck of moral ardour) can become so obsessed with simple equations of black and white that they’re willing to follow a demagogue.

                    It’s all material. Hopefully it’s only material.

                    • TheExtremist

                      I’m a writer too. Had a few pieces published in international and NZ magazines. Was a stringer for Remix in Auckland while living in London – had a few articles published.
                      I don’t do journalism anymore though – was a brief foray. I like the creative form.

                      But yes, CV has a very…binary POV.

                    • rhinocrates

                      Not an easy living. Good luck. I’m hoping that academic editing gigs will stabilise my income as long as I have time for the creative side.

                    • TheExtremist

                      I have a full time, well paid job. But I still spend time working on a novel of sorts. While I am only 36 my story is interesting enough to validate a memoir.

                      In writing it I am learning a lot about myself.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Look in the mirror mate you’re the one following me around writing screeds of personal hate.

                  • Chooky

                    CV…I am with you all the way on this one…Trump is a better option than Clinton…the very thought of her being next President makes me shudder

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Chur, Chooky 🙂

                    • RedLogix

                      I’m with a large fraction of Americans who can’t stomach either of them. Unfortunately NOT voting doesn’t help.

                      Nor am I willing to make any predictions; as I’ve said all along any damn thing could, and likely will happen. This is a chaos election.

  27. joe90 31

    Prick will be lucky not to join Bernie Madoff.

    The most valuable company in the world today once lost $700 million and was in a death spiral. @realDonaldTrump lost even more by himself. pic.twitter.com/1YYLkhHc2x— Louis Gray (@louisgray) October 2, 2016

    So consider that for scale. Apple's worst year (1996) saw them lose $816M. @realDonaldTrump reported $916M in losses alone in 1995. pic.twitter.com/1Jvx9h0six— Louis Gray (@louisgray) October 2, 2016


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