Open mike 02/12/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 2nd, 2011 - 91 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

91 comments on “Open mike 02/12/2011 ”

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  1. mickysavage 1
    2 December 2011 at 6:06 am

    Memo from Crosby Textor

    To all available RWNJs

    We were lucky last election. We only just got over the line and special votes may make things even more precarious. Having to rely on Banks and the coiffured one for supply is daunting and the thought of the Maori Party having the balance of power is terrifying.

    Unless we do something then it is vey likely that we will lose the next election and the damned socialists will wreck the country by doing such things as addressing child poverty and giving workers a living wage. Such heresy cannot be tolerated.

    So we need to do something about their current leadership battle. We have deep concerns about Cunliffe. He is bright and a good debater. He is the perfect counter to brand Key. He will be able to tell when Key uses our bogus statistics.
    His leadership aspirations must be thwarted at all costs.

    We need all out support for his opponents. Now that Parker is out of the running we need full support for Shearer. We are pleased that our efforts to placate and control the MSM are that successful that Farrar and Slater can support Shearer without anyone being incredulous at how the views of the National Party on Labour’s leadership can be given any credence.

    Please keep supporting Shearer. When you do so use phrases such as “a new way” or “gamechanger” and talk about a “groundswell” even though the actual groundswell is coming from the ranks of the supporters of the right who will never vote Labour.

    Message ends.

    • Lanthanide 1.1
      2 December 2011 at 8:50 am

      John Key left the country to make money.

      David Shearer left to save lives.

      • Blue 1.1.1
        2 December 2011 at 8:57 am

        And what happens when that line gets old, Lanth?

        People won’t vote for Shearer just because of his past. They’ll say ‘nice guy, but…’

        If Labour picks Shearer and has to roll him within six months to a year because he doesn’t have what it takes, then Labour will be caught up in the sort of messy bloodbath jounalists adore, leaving the public with negative feelings about Labour as a disunited, dysfunctional party and gifting John Key a third term.

      • Anne 1.1.2
        2 December 2011 at 9:43 am

        If ‘dazed and confused’ is any indication, I think the RWNJs are changing their game plan from endorsement of Shearer to the undermining of Cunliffe. Expect the rumours and innuendo to surface any day now.

        • lprent 1.1.2.1
          2 December 2011 at 9:53 am

          That was what the Wellington astroturfer I banned last night “Albie” something was pushing. I guess that will be the message of the day

        • Anthony 1.1.2.2
          2 December 2011 at 8:11 pm

          You can see their endgame though, if Shearer wins they get someone who they think Key is better able to compete with, if Cunliffe wins against the “Shearer ground swell!1!!!” they get to say Labour is still out of touch with the electorate due to back room wheeling and dealing.

          They’ve put themselves in a win/win situation, it’s pretty clever really.

      • pollywog 1.1.3
        2 December 2011 at 10:53 am

        …but Key fucked the world over as part of a cadre of scumbag wanksters.

        There are more people dying unnecesarily than ever before.

        good or bad is irrelevent, who made the bigger difference ?

        • Bob Stanforth 1.1.3.1
          2 December 2011 at 11:35 am

          Dont think there is any argument over that, at least none that would stand up. But, and its a big but, just because someone has taken a moral stand at some point in their career does not a leader of a left wing political party make.

          By all means, yay for Shearer, but as noted, if you cant lead, you cant lead.

          • Uturn 1.1.3.1.1
            2 December 2011 at 12:11 pm

            Are we talking about the same David Shearer?

            Previously Senior Humanitarian Affairs Adviser in Liberia; Deputy Humanitarian Coordinator for the United Nations in Rwanda; Senior Humanitarian Adviser in Albania?

            Chief of the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in Belgrade

            Senior Adviser to the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan

            Head of the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in Jerusalem;

            Humanitarian Coordinator during conflict in Lebanon in 2006

            Appointed by the United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon as his Deputy Special Representative (Humanitarian, Reconstruction and Development) for Iraq

            and the United Nations Resident Coordinator and the Humanitarian Coordinator.

            He also ran one of the largest refugee camp in Somalia and recieved Queens hours for his efforts. I guess they must have read David Shearer all wrong. Either that or he makes right wing twats puke because he puts his mouth where his life is and gets the job done – all without bashing a single beneficiary. That’ll scare them to death alright. What they want is a smile ‘n’ wave stunt double.

            Shearer isn’t much of a stock standard leader, he’s more Prime Minister material.

            • Bob Stanforth 1.1.3.1.1.1
              2 December 2011 at 1:01 pm

              Its entirely possible you are dead right – time will tell really, will it not? Other than that, pure speculation based on three very quiet years in Parliament.

            • the pink postman 1.1.3.1.1.2
              2 December 2011 at 4:07 pm

              Which adds up to the sort of Labour Party leader that we need /What Shearer has achivied is exactly why I joined Labour so many years ago.
              Labour people has always been proud of humanitarian leaders we have sometimes had in the the past. The men and women who have a difference to the displaced and unfortunates. if Shearer is elected leader it will be with pride among us .The Right is already moving to disrupt and divide Labour.they already have the next election planned.They were succesfull in destroying Phil Goff. They were so succesfull they even had some of our own people believing them. Dont lets go down that path again.tell these Right wing bastards that we will run our party not them.I for one do not need their advice on who should be the Leader of my party. I remember Garner saying “Im going to do Goff . Right-Wing columists like Garner .Plunket and ACT supporter Holmes and the others need to be told just where they can go with their anti Labour/Green sleaze and lies. Stop,them now !.

              • Bob Stanforth …
                2 December 2011 at 9:53 pm

                Um, Sean Plunket, right wing? Anti labour??

                Ive no idea what you’re drinking dude, but SP is as right wing as Im Queen Lizzie.

                Seriously, seriously delusional. Having worked with his neighbour and old school chum for years, and borne witness to his alcohol fueled rants, nope, not now, not then, not ever.

                He called it how he saw it, and good on him for having the nuts to do it.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  2 December 2011 at 11:07 pm

                  Sean is as Right Hand Drive as a brand new Mustang.

                  • Bob Stanforth …
                    3 December 2011 at 7:57 am

                    Don’t go the Mustang CV, driven one, they aren’t much cop.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      3 December 2011 at 8:26 am

                      😀

                      I just read that in order to make their numbers look better GM just saddled their dealers with 620,000 new cars, unsold and in inventory. A record all time high. These guys are screwed.

      • In Vino Veritas 1.1.4
        2 December 2011 at 1:17 pm

        “David Shearer left to save lives.”

        What a load of bollocks Lanthanide. Just make this up did you? Sorry, rhetorical question. You did.

        “It began a few years ago when I was something of a hippy, travelling around the world like many Kiwis take the time to do.” David Shearer, speech to the Teritiary Education Conference 28 November 2011.

        • Uturn 1.1.4.1
          2 December 2011 at 1:41 pm

          Truth doesn’t sit at the bottom of a wine bottle – or in your case a whine bottle.

          You cite the beginning of an explanation as to how David Shearer became involved in humanitarian causes and then imply he isn’t a humanarian, but a selfish hippy? If I could, I would ban commenters like you. You’re trolling, poorly, and wasting space. Get out and do some work you thought bludger – that’s what you tell people isn’t it? Of course you already know about context, you’re just stupid, bored and likely half drunk.

          For others, here is the full context of what David Shearer said:

          “It began a few years ago when I was something of a hippy, travelling around the world like many Kiwis take the time to do.

          A friend and I decided to follow the Nile River to its source in Uganda. I think we had this romantic notion of following in the footsteps of those great explorers.

          I remember we were reading a couple of wonderful books by Alan Moorehead, who wrote about those who had passed through these same places 100 years earlier. They were called called ‘White Nile’ and the ‘Blue Nile’.

          In South Sudan we hitched a ride on a Somali truck that seemed the only way to cross the wild terrain of the Turkana tribe. It was about a five day trip.

          We were sitting in the back of the truck peeling a mango and throwing the skins over the side.

          I heard noises below and looking down I saw children fighting over the skins – simply because they were hungry. It was a real shock. Here I was, a tourist, travelling through a land where people were so hungry they fought over mango skins.

          Over the next few days we saw many people sitting or walking – who knows where – who were just skin and bones, their lives devastated by a drought and conflict in the area, many were close to dying.

          For me it was one of those turning points – it hit me that perhaps I should be doing something more to make a difference in the world.

          I returned to NZ but the idea of doing something never left me. I pushed and prodded various agencies and was eventually hired by Save the Children to work in Sri Lanka where a war was being fought between the government in the south and the Tamil Tiger guerrillas in the north.”

          • In Vino Veritas 1.1.4.1.1
            2 December 2011 at 3:31 pm

            You would ban me for pointing out an erroneous statement made by Lanth? How childish you are. At no point did I make any implications. I made a statement that Lanth made up the statement that Shearer went overseas to save lives. He did not originally go overseas to save lives. He went on his OE, that is all. The evidence is in your reproduction of his speech. If you read implications into my short earlier response, you are either far too sensitive, or perhaps the wine bottle you refer to is taking a hammering at your end.

            I have nothing against David Shearer, his achievements are many, and uplifting. In my opinion he would make a fine leader of the Labour Party, the only pity being that he is not National.

            • McFlock 1.1.4.1.1.1
              2 December 2011 at 5:22 pm

              Very well, vino veritarse, would you regard the phrasing:

              John Key stayed overseas to make money.
              David Shearer stayed overseas to save lives.

               
              as achieving the required level of accuracy?
                 
                
              Pointless objection you had there, imo.
               

            • Mutante 1.1.4.1.1.2
              2 December 2011 at 5:57 pm

              So he went on his OE and ended up doing a vast amount of good. Maybe if you had your eyes opened a bit you wouldn’t be sitting around here wasting our time with such pointless exercises in pedantry and diversion.

            • Ianupnorth 1.1.4.1.1.3
              2 December 2011 at 7:24 pm

              Why –

              the only pity being that he is not National.

               
              because he has real talent, other than playing roullette with other peoples money like Shonkey did? That bloke hasn’t done a hard days work in his life!

    • Bob Stanforth 1.2
      2 December 2011 at 8:51 am

      “He will be able to tell when Key uses our bogus statistics”

      Irony, much?

      Always with the laughable conspiracy theory. If you got over yourself for half a second, you would see it as debate on something topical. Me, I see it as, from my perspective, the chance for labour to understand whats broken and fix it. Because remember, the electorate has just told you it is broken. And the option is yours to fix it.

  2. tc 2
    2 December 2011 at 7:12 am

    Yeah but they don’t have to feed the MSM with appearances on close up etc and deflect any questions with how about that mine, or that mine safety, stuffed forecasts etc etc etc

    This gives opportunity to turn it back on the dodgy behaviour the Nats excel and if they persist simply state it’s an internal party matter…..the MSM don’t deserve the time of day let alone indulge the CT initiative.

    • neoleftie 2.1
      2 December 2011 at 7:24 am

      actaully TC i disagree…its both worthwhile, mature and a fresh approach…labour need to reconnect so why hide the process away from the public.
      These public apearances i.e beauty contests allow the party the opportunity to gauge support, create interest with the candiadates and also the party.
      This whole ‘road show’ event if properly managed will create situational responces that we can use for the future.
      This is both honest fresh and relevant – go team labour and its new look.

  3. Pete 3
    2 December 2011 at 8:06 am

    A Christmas message from the National Party

    http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/qUuDm1Mt2TuhyMCo4K4x

    (Farts will always be funny)

  4. Draco T Bastard 4
    2 December 2011 at 9:12 am

    Proof that RWNJs believe at least two impossible things before breakfast.

    Some Republican lawmakers are skeptical that extending the tax cut [payroll so only wage earners pay it] beyond this year will help job creation and say it will have only a temporary effect on the economy.

    Obama has proposed a tax increase on wealthy Americans, but Republicans have rejected that, saying it would hurt business owners who generate jobs.

    Basically, the Republicans are demanding that the tax cuts given to the poor be revoked while demanding that the tax cuts given to the rich, which caused the deficit and aren’t creating jobs, be kept.

    • Uturn 4.1
      2 December 2011 at 9:21 am

      It’s laughable. The same people who say a tax cut for them will generate jobs are arguing a package that includes reducing the Federal workforce by 10%. Do they comprehend the words that tumble out their mouths or are they just so utterly conceited they don’t care anymore.

    • joe90 4.2
      2 December 2011 at 10:23 am

      Spiegel: A Club of Liars, Demagogues and Ignoramuses.

      Africa is a country. In Libya, the Taliban reigns. Muslims are terrorists; most immigrants are criminal; all Occupy protesters are dirty. And women who feel sexually harassed — well, they shouldn’t make such a big deal about it.

      Welcome to the wonderful world of the US Republicans. Or rather, to the twisted world of what they call their presidential campaigns. For months now, they’ve been traipsing around the country with their traveling circus, from one debate to the next, one scandal to another, putting themselves forward for what’s still the most powerful job in the world.

      As it turns out, there are no limits to how far they will stoop.

      It’s true that on the road to the White House all sorts of things can happen, and usually do. No campaign can avoid its share of slip-ups, blunders and embarrassments. Yet this time around, it’s just not that funny anymore. In fact, it’s utterly horrifying.

      It’s horrifying because these eight so-called, would-be candidates are eagerly ruining not only their own reputations and that of their party, the party of Lincoln lore. Worse: They’re ruining the reputation of the United States.

    • joe90 4.3
      2 December 2011 at 11:00 am

      How Republicans are being taught to talk about Occupy Wall Street.

      “I’m so scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I’m frightened to death,” said Frank Luntz, a Republican strategist and one of the nation’s foremost experts on crafting the perfect political message. “They’re having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism.”

      Also: http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/12/01/379365/frank-luntz-occupy-wall-street/

    • Lanthanide 4.4
      2 December 2011 at 3:08 pm

      Cognitive dissonance. The worst part is they probably don’t even realise they’re doing it.

  5. joe90 5
    2 December 2011 at 10:10 am

    MediaMatters: “Climategate” Redux: Conservative Media Distort Hacked Emails … Again

    Selectively Edited Email Implies Scientists “Left Out” Information To Fit A “Message.” A December 2004 email from the University of Arizona’s Jonathan Overpeck to Argentinian scientist Ricardo Villalba was cropped to say:

    Overpeck:

    The trick may be to decide on the main message and use that to guid[e] what’s included and what is left out. [Email excerpt, accessed 11/28/11]
    Email Was Actually About Meeting Page Limits. The full email reveals that Overpeck is advising Villalba to edit a lengthy outline down to “0.5 pages of HIGHLY focused and relevant stuff.” They are discussing a “Section on Modes of Variability” for the Palaeoclimate chapter of the draft 2007 IPCC report. From Overpeck’s email:

    I think the hardest, yet most important part, is to boil the section down to 0.5 pages. In looking over your good outline, sent back on Oct. 17 (my delay is due to fatherdom just after this time), you cover ALOT. The trick may be to decide on the main message and use that to guid what’s included and what is left out. For the IPCC, we need to know what is relevant and useful for assessing recent and future climate change. Moreover, we have to have solid data – not inconclusive information.

    […]

    So, the trick is for you to lead us (Dick, Keith, me – maybe Julie – ENSO expert) to produce 0.5 pages of HIGHLY focused and relevant stuff. Can you take another crack at your outline and then tell us what you need? [Email 4755, 12/16/04]

  6. Jackal 6
    2 December 2011 at 10:14 am

    Kyoto – Not unconditional [sic]

    I guess we should have expected it… National looks set to bypass the Kyoto protocol. Not that New Zealand adhered to the deal to reduce emissions the first place…

    • Draco T Bastard 6.1
      2 December 2011 at 11:43 am

      Yeah, when I read that Canada was thinking of pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol I figured it wouldn’t be long before this government did the same.

  7. joe90 7
    2 December 2011 at 11:33 am

    Huffpost: Arab Spring, American Fall

    It is highly symbolic that the social unrest took place in America in the Fall, for rather than expressing a social upheaval that would turn the country upside down, it actually expressed something profoundly sinister — the further application and extension of national security state power. The take-downs of the Occupy sites were nationally coordinated. The rationales given were all the same. The overwhelming police presence was similar. The acquiescence of the protestors in leaving, overwhelmingly non-violently, was strikingly common.

    What makes this sinister is that it comes at just the moment when the Senate has passed the National Defense Authorization Act (SB 1867) co-authored by Senators Carl Levin and John McCain, which contains a “worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial” provision. The bill legislates into law the capacity of the president to deploy the U.S. military anywhere in the world, including the United States, and have the legal right to arrest, hold without charge, incarcerate indefinitely, and even execute any U.S. citizen as a military matter without judicial oversight or control. As Senator Lindsey Graham says, the bill “does apply to American citizens and it designates the world as the battlefield, including the homeland.” This is the mentality dealing with Occupy, and unlike the Arab Spring, there is nothing that Occupy has done to date that has shaken this prevailing mentality. While Occupy has certainly challenged the prevailing elites, it has also given them the opportunity to exercise more powerfully the very powers Occupy is protesting.

    ACLU: Senators Demand the Military Lock Up of American Citizens in a “Battlefield” They Define as Being Right Outside Your Window

    http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-s1867/show

  8. Jackal 8
    2 December 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Send in the bullies

    Earlier this year the National party completely failed to consult with local Iwi about their plans to explore for oil off the East Coast of New Zealand. To combat the negative public backlash National have now appointed a former District Commander and Superintendent of Police as Iwi Relations Manager, who just happens to have a history of violence and corruption…

  9. Jackal 9
    2 December 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Peters won’t rule out release of tea tape

    NZ First leader Winston Peters is refusing to rule out reading a transcript of the teapot tape in Parliament – and experts say there is little to stop him.

    The secret recording has been credited for Mr Peters’ return to Parliament. But he was tight-lipped yesterday on speculation he would raise the matter in the new term.

    Game on.

  10. ianmac 10
    2 December 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Parliamentary Privilege! Aha. Other gremlins to come out do you think?
    Be interesting to see what pre-emptive strikes are unleashed on Winston.

  11. NickS 11
    2 December 2011 at 12:55 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6075286/Tamihere-Cunliffes-deputy-pick-smarmy

    ‘I’m the type of Maori that doesn’t back dumb Maori, so I’m not saying she’s a dumb Maori. I’m just saying if she was awfully meritorious, I’d back her 100 per cent, that has not been my experience.”

    Dubious disclaimer is dubious or, he is calling her stupid and the quip of:

    The only thing she’s lacking is she doesn’t have a limp. Then he would have got the disabled [vote] too. That’s the truth of it and that’s the way it smacked as soon as I saw it.

    Just reinforces my idea that Tamihere considers Nanaia Mahuta a non-person combined with the anti-disabled bullshit as well…

    And:

    ”Out of the two of them you’d have to rate, on Labour Party values and on the street bringing the men’s vote back and a whole bunch of other things, Shane all day long; if he can get over in his own mind the self mutilation that he conducted in that hotel room,” Tamihere said.

    Translation: misogyny = Labour Party values (oh noes wez can’t has women in leadership!111!!), and he’s anti-porn in the single most stupidest way to boot*, which is ironic given he’s talking about the “men’s vote”.

    Methinks perhaps he should just stick to talk back, were the audience is full of “traditional” values, such as calling anything you don’t like “politically correct” and misogyny is held in high esteem.
    _______________________________________________________________
    *”self mutilation”? lolwut? it sounds like something from dodgy fundie tracts and utterly ignores the shit that goes on in the porn industry, nor issues with sexual roles/behaviours and exploitation.

    • felix 11.1
      2 December 2011 at 1:30 pm

      According to Willie Jackson today, Tamihere is working for Shearer.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.2
      2 December 2011 at 1:36 pm

      Tamihere is the arse-hole who got kicked out of Labour for being misogynist. IIRC, he also took an extreme jump to the right after he left Labour as well. I don’t think anything he says is worth listening to as he’s proven, quite conclusively, that his judgement is lacking credibility.

      • Jackal 11.2.1
        2 December 2011 at 1:55 pm

        Maui Street: JT on Nanaia

        You can always rely on John Tamihere to call it how he sees it, and that’s a good quality, but sometimes the way he calls things is unnecessary and pathetic. The point JT is trying to make is that Nanaia was selected on tokenistic grounds. A fair point, no doubt, but the way he phrased his point was low – offensive basically. He may have got a laugh out of a few racists, ableists and fuckwits, beyond that his comment didn’t serve anyone.

        I’ve given up even responding to Tamihere, on account of how much of a fuckwit he is. I can’t believe New Zealand voted for the guy.

        • Anthony 11.2.1.1
          2 December 2011 at 3:51 pm

          And Nanaia busts out a smack down.

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10770406

          Maybe she does have enough fire in the belly for the deputy position.

          • NickS 11.2.1.1.1
            2 December 2011 at 5:07 pm

            Labour MP Nanaia Mahuta has blasted former colleague John Tamihere as a sexist “failed politician” for alleging she is only a leadership candidate because she is a woman and Maori.

            Mr Tamihere has called potential Labour leader David Cunliffe’s decision to pick Ms Mahuta as his running mate “smarmy” and typical.

            ”The only thing she’s lacking is she doesn’t have a limp. Then he would have got the disabled [vote] too. That’s the truth of it and that’s the way it smacked as soon as I saw it.”

            Ms Mahuta said those comments smacked of sexism.

            “John’s comments show male parochialism is alive and well in Maoridom… If John Tamihere thinks that Maori women should be in the home cooking kai, then he’s wrong.

            “I would advise him to stick to his knitting. He’s a failed politician who is never making it back in, and it’s a bit rich for him to advise Labour on its leadership team.”

            Fuck yes.

            I can see why Cunliffe choose her now, as she’s got the steel needed for the front bench and whipping MP’s into line.

            • Anthony 11.2.1.1.1.1
              2 December 2011 at 6:29 pm

              Unless it’s some bizarre Machiavellian plot and he supported her all along, he’s unintentionally helped her claims to be deputy.

              Good work JT!

            • kriswgtn 11.2.1.1.1.2
              2 December 2011 at 7:06 pm

              yeah she sure aint scared of no-one and I admire her for that…………….

              • Ianupnorth …
                2 December 2011 at 7:29 pm

                JT – New Zealand’s answer to Jeremy Clarkson – another one with his snout in the trough of far too many trust boards.

        • Mutante 11.2.1.2
          2 December 2011 at 7:31 pm

          It begs the question what he was ever doing in a left leaning party coming out with shit like that.

  12. Jackal 12
    2 December 2011 at 1:41 pm

    The Spy Files

    International surveillance companies are based in the more technologically sophisticated countries, and they sell their technology on to every country of the world. This industry is, in practice, unregulated. Intelligence agencies, military forces and police authorities are able to silently, and on mass, and secretly intercept calls and take over computers without the help or knowledge of the telecommunication providers. Users’ physical location can be tracked if they are carrying a mobile phone, even if it is only on stand by.

    Idiot/Savant gets the best stories.

    The leak has a dedicated site, and in addition there is commentary and analysis on The Bureau of Investigative Journalism and ONWI. Read it, then start thinking about how we can shut down this industry in New Zealand.

    There are ways to technically usurp the system. Mainly by learning the opt out and block features on cell phones and ensuring that tracking software is not operational on your computer. However that is just the tip of the iceberg.

    The other day I drove past an unmarked car that obviously had a sophisticated surveillance system in operation with a camera mounted on the inside of the windscreen. With digital facial recognition and most people having their photo online somewhere, there really is no escaping.

    Therefore the best option is to politicize and work to restrict their intrusiveness and power.

  13. aerobubble 13
    2 December 2011 at 2:15 pm

    USSR taxed its way into putting the first man in space.
    The USA taxed its way to being the first to put a man on the moon.
    The USSR removed property rights on individuals as it was a tax on the people.

    The Greens argue that turning DOC land over to mining is essentially a tax on future generations who will nolonger be able to attract tourists, or utilize the nature wealth of the area.
    As all property essentially excludes everyone but the property right holder, and so is a tax on everyone else.
    So for a citizenry to guard property rights (the duty to deny themselves access to property) there is a responsibility on property owners to use property, rather than hoard or pollute it.
    From a Green perspective wasting a landscape by mining it over a decade means the loss of future profits of generations of tourists, downstream pollution of water ways leaving costs on farmers…to…biological firms finding profit in genetic diversity.
    Now why does this make the Green party more of a libertarian party than the ACT party?
    Well simple, because ACT isn’t a libertarian party, it ignores property right holders duty to make a profit (by claiming they always do), in fact it pushes policies that ‘take profit’ creating no wealth.
    Take for example the taxpayer built dams that are now up for sale, which is a property transfer transaction not wealth creation.

    So Prebble was right, well obviously he wasnt saying taxes don’t create wealth when he said taxation doesn’t create wealth, what are the tax funded dams about to be sold because they represent so much wealth.
    What he was clearly saying was the sale of assets, a cost to tax payers, is a waste of taxes as it transfers wealth rather than makes any wealth.
    Well okay he wasn’t, but that what happens when an ignoramus like Prebble makes the absurd claim that taxation doesn’t create wealth, obviously sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t.
    Property rights is a tax and potentially creates weath when property owners aren’t deluded about their role.
    But if you are associated with the ACT party then either you’re delusional, ignorant or just a cheap bleating lying, which is easily discernable by those not associated with said ideology.
    Much like an atheist when hearing a be-godist speach; strangely, ACT is a religious dogmatic economic party.

    So here we have the problem, Dunne saying asset sales, where they happen, should be for the good of NZ, yet incapable of answering the simplest of questions!
    How does transfering ‘some’ property rights to foreigners conform to Dunne’s view that sales should for the good of NZ?
    Dunne is far worse than the ACT party, ACT keeps their stupidity up front and in your face, Dunne weazely wishy washy view is to cloak asset sales as some liberal pragmatism when obviously its not.
    Asset sales that place ownership in foriegn hands, or even in kiwi hands where those kiwis live overseas or will inevitably have to move once they sell the asset to pay for the flight out of NZ.
    The world is printing money, and our elite is selling into that market despite those assets being key to our economic future in an energy limited world.
    Sorry but this is akin to leaving the Trojens gates open after returning the gift of a horse statue.
    Remember every name of every MP that votes Key’s budget in (or abstains – the Maori party) because they obviously plan on having homes in Australia and need to pay for them somehow (except Maori who have a history of selling off property cheap or so Maori tell it).
    The Maori party providing any form of support to ‘asset sales’ National is a disgrace imo.

    • mikesh 13.1
      2 December 2011 at 3:16 pm

      Castro’s Cuba gives land away gratis to those who will use it productively, but if they fail to do so it is taken back and given to someone else who can use it productively.

      • aerobubble 13.1.1
        3 December 2011 at 10:45 am

        Yes, and that requires someone to be watching. Capitalism does that differently by laying taxes that pressures land owners to use land, and fines for pollution. And why National ideology will always be anti-Green as it denies governments role in the process or water downs the policies.

    • mikesh 13.2
      2 December 2011 at 3:32 pm

      “The good of of NZ” is best served by selling power at cost. However this is only likely to happen if the power companies are owned by the government since private owners will usually want to chase profit. I seems a pity that Labour condoned the setting up of profit making, dividend paying SOE’s, otherwise they might have contested the election with the message that selling power companies would mean an increase in power prices.

  14. joe90 14
    2 December 2011 at 3:21 pm

    NYmag: 2012=1968?

    In 2008, Barack Obama lit a fire among young activists. Next year, Occupy Wall Street could consume him

    from.

  15. In Vino Veritas 15
    2 December 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Interesting there is no comment regarding the Port of Auckland strike by called by the Union. I note that the average wage of these people is a lazy $91K (plus the extras they each get). This puts them just outside the top 5% of earners in NZ, therefore they must be Michael Cullen’s “rich pricks”. Good to see that no one here is supporting them.

    [lprent: There is a comment – you just made one. Congratulations.

    However I fail to see why you’re calling the wharfies “John Key”. After all that was the only person that Michael Cullen directed his remark to. As far as I can see the only comparison is that they earn less than John Key, and they work just below the MP for Helensville’s residence in Parnell.

    In other words if you want to quote history then please quote real history rather than the slop that wingnuts dish up as fact. Besides I have to go through the effort of releasing it from moderation. ]

    • Ianupnorth 15.1
      2 December 2011 at 7:36 pm

      The banners the protestors were holding stated they get $13 per hour and the CEO gets $3000 per day. Now, if you would like to go down and ask to see their pay slips and confirm or deny their banner, and simultaneously justify your claimed $91K, we’d appreciate that.
       
      The figure you are quoting means they would have to work 150 hours per week @ $13 an hour to  get to $91K, or a 50 hour week earning $39 per hour – so which is it seeing as you claim to be in the know?

  16. joe90 16
    2 December 2011 at 4:10 pm

    A Banker Speaks, With Regret

    If you want to understand why the Occupy movement has found such traction, it helps to listen to a former banker like James Theckston. He fully acknowledges that he and other bankers are mostly responsible for the country’s housing mess.
    As a regional vice president for Chase Home Finance in southern Florida, Theckston shoveled money at home borrowers. In 2007, his team wrote $2 billion in mortgages, he says. Sometimes those were “no documentation” mortgages.

    “On the application, you don’t put down a job; you don’t show income; you don’t show assets,” he said. “But you still got a nod.”

    “If you had some old bag lady walking down the street and she had a decent credit score, she got a loan,” he added.

    Theckston says that borrowers made harebrained decisions and exaggerated their resources but that bankers were far more culpable — and that all this was driven by pressure from the top.

    “You’ve got somebody making $20,000 buying a $500,000 home, thinking that she’d flip it,” he said. “That was crazy, but the banks put programs together to make those kinds of loans.”

  17. Jackal 17
    2 December 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Support locked-out workers

    111 Meat workers are still locked-out from the jobs at in Rangitikei. They’ve been more than six weeks without wages and they need support. This weekend is a national day of fund-raising and action in support of the locked-out workers. McDonalds are being targeted, as they are one of the primary customers of the company. There are events organised all over the country…

    • Roflcopter 17.1
      2 December 2011 at 4:33 pm

      Ask the stevedores in Auckland, they’ll have plenty to share around.

      • Jackal 17.1.1
        2 December 2011 at 6:05 pm

        I presume you’re referring to Cathy Odgers claims that the Auckland wharfies are rich pricks when she does not link to her source. I think you can take her divide and conquer bullshit with a grain of salt Roflcopter.

        I thought it rather unbecoming of John Key when he said that National had the “largest majority since the Waterfront strike” which occurred in 1951.

        The reason for National winning the snap election then is because they ran a negative campaign on an anti-Communist platform, labeling many men who had fought bravely for their country in the second world war as communists, which further entrenched the resentment felt by the waterfront workers. They went on strike after missing out on a 15% pay increase awarded by the Arbitration Court to all other workers.

        The National led government then went about beating and starving the families of the protesting workers into submission. Back then you weren’t even allowed to produce pamphlets to disseminate information. National has a history a fascism that they should be ashamed of.

        Labour lost ground in the snap election because they tried to remain moderate and did not come out strongly in support of the Unions. Instead of negotiating with the unions, National chose to use violence and propaganda to repress the uprising. Hopefully it’s a lesson learned by all sides.

        • Draco T Bastard 17.1.1.1
          2 December 2011 at 6:46 pm

          Hopefully it’s a lesson learned by all sides.

          Looking at what’s happening it’s lesson that’s been forgotten – but we’ll all get the chance to re-learn it as the psychopaths in NAct continue their war on the poor and the theft of our assets and resources.

  18. logie97 18
    2 December 2011 at 4:52 pm

    So who does Mora on Afternoons turn to for a legal opinion?
    Stephen Franks (often panelist). And introduced as former
    MP. (Not former ACT MP)

  19. joe90 19
    2 December 2011 at 6:25 pm

    http://bikyamasr.com/49799/egypt-import-tear-gas-from-us/

    CAIRO: The arrival of 7 and half tons of tear gas to Egypt’s Suez port created conflict after the responsible officials at the port refused to sign and accept it for fear it would be used to crackdown on Egyptian protesters

    […]

    Egypt’s al-Shorouk newspaper reported that upon the arrival of the shipment, massive disagreements broke out between employees, where five employees refused to sign for the shipment, one after the other.

    The five, being dubbed by activists as the “brave five”, were to be refereed to a investigative committee as to why they refused to perform their duties, which has since called off.

  20. Draco T Bastard 20
    2 December 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Sharples will stand down as Maori Party co-leader

    But then, nek minute, it seems the Maori Party do not want Dr Sharples as co-leader any more and his position will come up for grabs.

    Dr Shaples says he would like Mr Flavell to transition into the role but seems to be getting the raw end of the rejuvenation deal.

    Dr Sharples suddenly faces losing not only the leadership, but his ministerial job as well and all before Christmas – not much of a present from the party he helped create.

    Interesting…

    • joe90 20.1
      2 December 2011 at 6:59 pm

      Fixed your munted link DTB.

      And I reckon Pita’s jumping before the SS MP hits the asset sales reef.

      • Draco T Bastard 20.1.1
        2 December 2011 at 7:12 pm

        Gah, thanks.

        If he resigns it would trigger a by-election which Labour could conceivably win. Depending on what happen with the special votes that could actually be the end of the NAct government.

      • joe90 20.1.2
        2 December 2011 at 7:31 pm

        If there is a by-election, Wall has her safe seat and Jones has a high ranking on the list, could Labour please stand a candidate who’s a born and bred local.

      • ak 20.1.3
        2 December 2011 at 8:20 pm

        Whoa!

        Nek minnit the Poll Idol election takes a nasty turn as the razor-back Slippery Govt steps on a banana skin.

        Hang onto your assets and lubricate your pencils, Turi and Te Ure, your price just went up – before specials.

    • I dreamed a dream 20.2
      2 December 2011 at 8:57 pm

      He obviously wasn’t happy to be forced to stand down:

      From TV3 News: “This is what happens in politics… You work yourself to death … And you really get passionate about what you achieve…Then some drunk staggers up and calls you a prick,” he said after the interview.

      Maybe he should just defect to the opposition benches. He always seemed to have a soft spot for Labour.

  21. yeshe 21
    3 December 2011 at 2:08 am

    Not certain if I am permitted to post this in entirety … but here goes .. too important not to post imho .. this is from a trusted and credible website …. the email is dated today

    NaturalNews Insider Alert ( http://www.NaturalNews.com ) email newsletter

    Dear NaturalNews readers,

    In a stunning move that has civil libertarians stuttering with disbelief, the U.S. Senate has just passed a bill that effectively ends the Bill of Rights in America.

    This bill, passed late last night in a 93-7 vote, declares the entire USA to be a “battleground” upon which U.S. military forces can operate with impunity, overriding Posse Comitatus and granting the military the unchecked power to arrest, detain, interrogate and even assassinate U.S. citizens with impunity.

    It’s being called the most traitorous act ever witnessed in the Senate, and the language of the bill is cleverly designed to make you think it doesn’t apply to Americans, but toward the end of the bill it essentially says it can apply to Americans “if we want it to.”

    Even WIRED magazine was outraged at this bill, reporting:

    …the detention mandate to use indefinite military detention in terrorism cases isn’t limited to foreigners. It’s confusing, because two different sections of the bill seem to contradict each other, but in the judgment of the University of Texas’ Robert Chesney — a nonpartisan authority on military detention — “U.S. citizens are included in the grant of detention authority.”
    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12/senate-military-detention/

    The passage of this law is nothing less than an outright declaration of WAR against the American People by the military-connected power elite. If this is signed into law, it will shred the remaining tenants of the Bill of Rights and unleash upon America a total military dictatorship, complete with secret arrests, secret prisons, unlawful interrogations, indefinite detainment without ever being charged with a crime, the torture of Americans and even the “legitimate assassination” of U.S. citizens on right here on American soil!

    If you have not yet woken up to the reality of the police state we’ve been warning you about, I hope you realize we are fast running out of time. Once this becomes law, you have no rights whatsoever in America — no due process, no First Amendment speech rights, no right to remain silent, nothing.

    Read my red alert warning on this urgent development at:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/034291_SB_1867_war_on_terror.html

    … and watch this urgent interview with Alex Jones of InfoWars.com at:
    http://www.infowars.com/stewart-rhodes-crossroads-ndaa-bill-is-pure-treason/

    The mainstream media is engaged in a shameful and conspiratorial news blackout of this entire issue:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-medias-blackout-of-the-national-defense-authorization-act-is-shameful-2011-12

    … and even the ACLU is outraged about this potential law:
    http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/senate-rejects-amendment-banning-indefinite-detention

    Are you getting all this? Do you realize America is about to be overrun by our own military?

    The rule of law is about to be utterly destroyed. No due process. No legal representation. Not even a right to know what you’re being charged with when you are (indefinitely) detained.

    This is an urgent time for action to protest the overreaching military police state in America. Immediately call your representatives in Washington and urge your House members to reject this bill in the reconciliation phase with the Senate. Call the office of the President and urge Obama to veto this bill if it is passed by both houses.

    Call your local newspapers and protest this outrageous and traitorous attempt to nullify the entire Bill of Rights.

    Do not be fooled by the trolls and disinfo agents who claim this bill does not apply to U.S. citizens — a fact which has already been established without question. If this is signed into law, military humvees will roll down the streets in U.S. cities, with gunpoint checkpoints, illegal arrests, secret torture operations and the outright murder of U.S. citizens right in their own home towns.

    In observing all this, you might ask WHY is this happening right now? Why would the U.S. Senate deliberately nullify the Bill of Rights and seek the authorize military action on the streets of U.S. cities?

    The answer, my friends, will not comfort you: A global economic collapse is coming, and once started, it will likely unleash a wave of social unrest and rioting that could burn many U.S. cities to the ground. The U.S. Senate is probably trying to rush authorization of the military to operate in American cities before the economic collapse arrives, thereby placing troops deep within the roughest U.S. cities where they stand a chance at halting the runaway riots that are sure to materialize when peoples’ life savings vanish as the banks collapse.

    Keep reading NaturalNews.com for updates on this situation. We will continue to cover the Eurozone economic crisis as well as this Senate bill 1867, which is not yet law. Our last-ditch hope would be for Obama to veto it. We’ll issue a red alert if that action is needed…

    And remember, folks, the Bill of Rights protects us all — liberals, conservatives, libertarians, agnostics, Christians, Jews, everybody! If you lose the Bill of Rights, you lose America and all the freedoms many generations have fought for. Right now protecting the Bill of Rights is perhaps the single most important thing we can do for our collective futures.

    All of us who have been screaming about the importance of the U.S. Constitution have been trying to protect YOU from exactly this kind of scenario. The whole purpose of the Bill of Rights is to limit the power of government so that this kind of Senate action is never allowed.

    In other news today, a federal court has reversed a lower court decision and granted corporate ownership over human genes for breast cancer:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/034301_breast_cancer_genes_intellectual_property.html

    • NickS 21.1
      3 December 2011 at 9:32 am

      “naturalnews.com”…

      Great, here’s a tip, don’t trust news that comes from a site well known in sceptic and science-based medicine circles for being utterly full of shit on everything from autism to cancer to HIV and beyond.

      Let alone spam other places with this paranoid bullshit, as the senate lacks the power to easily mess with the bill of rights without a super majority + presidential support.

  22. randal 22
    3 December 2011 at 10:51 am

    just been alerted to that fat slob leighton smith.
    he went flat out on the radio all last week to denigrate the candidates for the labour party leadership.
    he denigrated the United Nations and David Shearer and every time he gets the chance he denigrates Obama.
    How can New Zealanders tolerate such an ugly person getting in their face to tell them lies and set the tone of hatred every morning.
    I shudder to think that some actually like him and think there is some shred of truth in what he says.
    If that is so then country is in deep trouble.