Open Mike 03/02/2019

Written By: - Date published: 11:38 am, February 3rd, 2019 - 57 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

57 comments on “Open Mike 03/02/2019”

  1. mickysavage 1

    Apologies everyone for the lateness. The person responsible has had their pay cut by half.

  2. Adrian Thornton 2

    Here is a little song that goes out to 99.9 % of American politicians … but especially who Trump who seems to be embracing to vibe of the song as his actual political philosophy..

  3. Poission 3

    The Sunday lesson globalization and the mediocrity of metrics.

    “As with our earlier worship of saints and facts, there is something silly about grown men and women striving to reduce their vision of themselves and of civilization to bean counting. The message of the competition/efficiency/marketplace Trinity seems to be that we should drop the idea of ourselves developed over two and a half millennia. We are no longer beings distinguished by our ability to think and to act consciously in order to affect our circumstances. Instead we should passively submit ourselves and our whole civilization — our public structures, social forms and cultural creativity — to the abstract forces of unregulated commerce. It may be that most citizens have difficulty with the argument and would prefer to continue working on the idea of dignified human intelligence. If they must drop something, they would probably prefer to drop the economists. ”

    ― John Ralston Saul

    Globalization and increasing error in metrics.

    Official international economic statistics are generally considered accurate and meaningful gauges of cross-border flows of trade and capital. Most data users also assume that the quality of the underlying data keeps improving over time. Through an extensive review of the national accounting literature, archival research, two dozen interviews with high-level statisticians, and a series of data quality tests, we evaluate this common view for the primary source of data on trade and capital flows: the International Monetary Fund’s Balance of Payments (BOP) Statistics. Our assessment paints a less rosy picture: reported figures are far less accurate than they are typically imagined to be and often do not correspond to the theoretical concepts with which users associate them. At the same time, measurement quality deteriorates over time as the transnationalization of economic production gradually undermines the validity of BOP statistics. Our findings raise serious questions about the widespread use of these numbers, with their deceptive pretense to accuracy, in scholarly research and public debate about the international political economy.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09692290.2018.1560353

  4. joe90 4

    Charge the lot with crimes against humanity, render them direct to The Hague and put Lynndie England and co on the job. Fuckers.

    • + 1 they are the lowest, the worst of us.

    • DJ Ward 4.2

      So the ACLU who vertualy 100% of the time is spewing out anti Trump rhetoric is not biased? It makes absurd racism cliams, supports the sex abuse allegations against Kavanaugh despite them being exposed as bullshit. This present stuff is pre the new changes to the rules. So they can’t attack him now so just regurgitate the past. They have no credibility.

      Why arnt they complaining about normal criminals being seperated from there children. Immigrants that break the law, the President applying the Law as it stood at the time is somehow different?

      Have they issued a press release congratulating Trump in seeing Bush, Obama policy as being wrong and changing it. That’s what they want isn’t it, more humane treatment of citizens. Oops.

      TDS. Just a group of hate Trumpers.

      • Gabby 4.2.1

        More humane warty? Watchoo talkin bout.

      • North 4.2.2

        Donald J. Ward……just another unhinged cultist whom straight-up like asserts and reasserts that Donald J. Trump is a fine role model for children. I adopt the succinct analysis of onetime Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.

        • DJ Ward 4.2.2.1

          He is a role model. He has achieved great things in his life. President of the US for example. Works hard, doesn’t drink etc, loves women.

          Last month he added 304,000 jobs. That’s lots of people’s lives, and there kids, changed for the better. But carry on North ignoring him winning biggly.

          His kids have turned out OK.

          • Gabby 4.2.2.1.2

            I’ll bet he’s a role model to you warty, ass ferssure.

          • Muttonbird 4.2.2.1.3

            That’s funny because those rabidly opposed to Jacinda Ardern say that her becoming Prime Minister of New Zealand cannot be regarded as an achievement.

            BTW, not drinking is not an achievement unless you suffer from alcoholism. And if you regard his attitude to women as “loving” them then that explains why you have had so much trouble in the past.

            • DJ Ward 4.2.2.1.3.1

              1: I have no ploblem with Jacinda being Prime Minister. Being a prime minister even if it was accidental, and required selling her soul to Winston is still something to aspire to.
              2: I hardly ever have a drink, and considering its harm, is something to aspire to.
              3: I’m proud of my attitude towards women. The fact that I was never violent in a situation many men would have been violent in, is something to aspire too. Even when you have been punched in the head while protecting a baby, handing the baby back and walking out of the house is something to aspire to. The only option permitted for men in a society that bans men from having relationships with there children for no reason and protects violent women.

              • Muttonbird

                You’ve contradicted yourself on 1 in saying you don’t have a problem with “Jacinda” being Prime Minister but then qualifying it with the usual RW nonsense.

                I won’t respond to the rest because you obviously have major trouble with your attitude toward women.

          • North 4.2.2.1.4

            “His kids have turned out OK” ? Hardworking ? And the absolute pearler….”he loves women”. No. He molests women and brags about getting away with it because “I’m a star”.
            You’d be a fuck useless father to a daughter Donald J. Ward. I’m with Tillerson. F cultist M you.

            • DJ Ward 4.2.2.1.4.1

              I’ll remind myself every time that my Daughter gives me a spontaneous hug for being a terrible dad that North takes the bait so easily. Actually nah since you did, and haven’t added anything to the conversation yet of any value.

              McFlock, Joe90, Macro, Anne etc contribute with counter arguments showing character. They set out to prove me wrong, often doing so, and we all learn something. You haven’t been doing that.

      • McFlock 4.2.3

        You do realise that when children are taken into state care while their parents are in custody, paperwork is kept?

        Fuck, these days farmers are supposed to keep better track of their stock than the yanks did with human beings. Kids have been permanently separated from their parents because of a lack of paperwork. Actual criminals have detailed chain of custody records, and yet these children did not.

        Even the fucking Nazis did the basic paperwork.

        This issue pissed me off when it first came out, and every time it gets worse it pisses me off even more. People can argue dolt45 is a dick, or corrupt, but this is the one thing I don’t think he is responsible for or possibly even knew a damned thing about. I don’t think he would understand paperwork even if he thought to ask for it. The people in his organisation who ran this were fucking evil. And if you want to defend something so patently wrong, you’re fucking evil too. Not just a blinkered moron, you’re standing in defence of evil, so that rubs off on you.

        • Andre 4.2.3.1

          I’m picking the satan’s sidekick responsible for that particular evil was Dobby’s demented evil twin Stephen Miller.

        • Macro 4.2.3.2

          100%
          I can’t believe just how incompetent and irresponsible those who have perpetuated this atrocity are! They were either so inhumane and bigoted, that they could not see just how evil their lack of care was/is, or they are complete idiots who couldn’t manage their way out of the proverbial paper bag. On reflection I think both.

        • DJ Ward 4.2.3.3

          Um, I just said good on Trump for changing what was happening.

          Just because the paperwork was crap doesn’t result in a justification of calling it a Crime Against Humanity. There isn’t even a catagory for it.

          If taking kids from parents, and those parents knowing nothing about where there kids are, without a crime being committed, unlike the illegal immigrants, then Women’s Refuge are just as guilty.

          But heh there’s things you support, and your hatred of Trump.

          How does this by the ACLU say what was said in the lead post by Joe90.

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/immigration/nearly-250-migrant-children-still-separated-from-parents-aclu-report-says/2018/10/18/d3fc2fd0-d222-11e8-b2d2-f397227b43f0_story.html?utm_term=.c592cc106878

          Answer it doesn’t.

          Oh the inhumanity. A total misrepresentation. The seperated kids “the cliam by Joe90” are vertualy all ones that came on there own or decided to stay post parent deportation. So not seperated. Released and melted into the US, or returned home? Or don’t exist in the numbers claimed? Yep don’t exist in the numbers claimed because they report themselves on the exact numbers.

          They must be talking about thousands of kids trafficked in the unwalled areas for the sex trade. No wonder there’s no paperwork. Something you don’t want stopped based on your hate Trump anti wall position.

          Scary what you support McFlock.

          • joe90 4.2.3.3.1

            Answer it doesn’t.

            The regime’s own report says more than 2,700 children are being held and that thousands of children may have been separated during an influx that began in 2017, before the accounting required by the Court.

            Key Takeaway

            The total number of children separated from a parent or guardian by immigration authorities is unknown. Pursuant to a June 2018 Federal District Court order, HHS has thus far identified 2,737children in its care at that time who were separated from their parents. However, thousands of children may have been separated during an influx that began in 2017,before the accounting required by the Court, and HHS has faced challenges in identifying separated children

            https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-BL-18-00511.pdf

            • DJ Ward 4.2.3.3.1.1

              Thanks for the link, gives context.

              “Staff had begun informally tracking separations in 2016, recognizing that additional information and effort was required to locate parents of separated children.”

              So prior to that was Obama. WTF was he recording? No wonder that pre Trump or the begining of Trumps Presidency they can’t answer how many “seperated” kids there were.

              So were not talking about actual seperated kids.

              “The majority of children referred to ORR have surrendered to or been apprehended by immigration authorities while entering the U.S. without a parent or legal guardian.”

              • joe90

                informally tracking separations in 2016,

                The Obama policy was to detain unaccompanied children, not separate children from their families, and those without proper claims were at some point [to] be subject to repatriation to their home countries.

                tRump’s policy was to separate children from families as a deterrent to would be migrants. They’ve since lost a couple of thousand children.

                To say tRump was continuing an Obama policy is dishonest.

                Almost immediately after President Trump took office, his administration began weighing what for years had been regarded as the nuclear option in the effort to discourage immigrants from unlawfully entering the United States.

                Children would be separated from their parents if the families had been apprehended entering the country illegally, John F. Kelly, then the homeland security secretary, said in March 2017, “in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network.”

                […]

                Yet for George W. Bush and Barack Obama, the idea of crying children torn from their parents’ arms was simply too inhumane — and too politically perilous — to embrace as policy, and Mr. Trump, though he had made an immigration crackdown one of the central issues of his campaign, succumbed to the same reality, publicly dropping the idea after Mr. Kelly’s comments touched off a swift backlash.

                […]

                “The agencies were surfacing every possible idea,” Cecilia Muñoz, Mr. Obama’s top domestic policy adviser, recalled, including whether to separate parents from their children. “I do remember looking at each other like, ‘We’re not going to do this, are we?’ We spent five minutes thinking it through and concluded that it was a bad idea. The morality of it was clear — that’s not who we are.”

                https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/16/us/politics/family-separation-trump.html?

                • DJ Ward

                  That’s not what “separations” means in this context. It includes and is the majority of kids that come across the boarder without adults. So not actually seperated.

                  Once Trump backed down on “actual” separations, which was for a very short time period, the number of adults bringing children has risen to crisis levels. Nobody even knows if the kids are the kids of the adult. Essentially they are forced to catch and release, making children a must have for illegal entry into the US. There is so many now the system can’t cope. A National Emergency.

                  The separated ones left are actual criminals using children as a way to get in to the US or Adults with diseases that require isolation. The children not returning with the adult is by choice and most of them get sent to live with relatives, everyone who the child is placed with is checked out first. So because some of the adults shouldn’t be allowed near children you do get some seperated kids.

                  Nothing it that report talks about the missing records being from the “actual” separation period of time.

                  Stop trying to illegally enter the US.
                  There problem solved.

                  • joe90

                    That’s not what “separations” means in this context.

                    Kelly’s admission that children would be separated from their parents as policy is right in front of you.

                    You’re either stupid, or willfully dishonest. Imma gonna go with the latter.

                    missing records

                    They’ve admitted to keeping no records so how the fuck can they be missing?

          • McFlock 4.2.3.3.2

            Just because the paperwork was crap doesn’t result in a justification of calling it a Crime Against Humanity. There isn’t even a catagory for it.

            If you think that forcibly removing children from caring parents (not abusive ones that refuge deals with) with no consideration for reuniting them (which is what family courts do when the separated parent isn’t a threat to the safety of the child) on a scale of literally thousands is not a crime against humanity, then what is it?

            And yeah – taking kids like that is a mass kidnapping. Don’t pretend otherwise.

            • DJ Ward 4.2.3.3.2.1

              Crossing a nations boarder outside of the law of that nation is a crime. Especially when the law of the nation says it’s a crime.

              Don’t pretend otherwise.

              • McFlock

                If these families had been treated like criminals, the paperwork would have been done.

                That’s the fucking point.

                Some pieces of shit somewhere in the administration didn’t regard these people as criminals, or even animals. At best, they took custody of children without thinking about how to get them back with their parents. At worst, this was an intentional hardship inflicted on immigrant families to discourage others. And if you really want to play the criminal angle, look up “cruel and unusual punishment”.

  5. patricia bremner 5

    So called “Civilised” What a bloody horrible joke.

  6. greywarshark 6

    This on Jim Mora Sunday this morning. Is it good, or merely just showing us how to go round the awkward truths in life and go merrily, and individually along the yellow brick road to the end however we can?
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018680877/karen-becker-ambiguity-in-the-workplace

    A new study on ambiguity in the workplace has found that in a world that is increasingly less exact, younger workers are having trouble adapting. But is it the workers or the workplace that needs to change? One of the authors of the study is Karen Becker and she joins Jim from the Sunshine Coast to discuss how we can understand an ever changing world.

    And he has 3 minutes spots for people to gush about their concern about something. What’s that – for people with advanced attention span, from 30 seconds to 3 minutes – a streeetch. If it is something of portent it deserves more than 3 mins. If the person is someone of real wisdom and experience how can they describe the topic, explain the problem, offer ideas on alternatives, offer remedials etc in 3 minutes. I think that Jim Mora’s head is as small as the one in Beteljuice.
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj_inlzsDhQ

    Is he afraid of boring the chattering classes with long-winded journalism. In horse racing those that aren’t sound in wind and limb aren’t up to much for the long stretch. I do fear that Jim’s stable may not be stayers. But still must wait and see how he goes over the high jump or he might be up for the push. I’m pretty good with the cliches, I might get a spot!

  7. Liberal Realist 7

    What a sop story from Damien Grant! Dowie engaged in an extra-marital affair with (her own parties) bag man, who then goes off the rails – now she’s paid the price apparently? Methinks not yet, deselection coming her way once Siomon is toast. Where’s the personal responsibility National?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/110250779/damien-grant-sarah-dowie-has-paid-a-painful-price-for-her-liaisons-let-her-torment-end-there

    • Graeme 7.1

      Looks like there could be a couple of interesting weeks coming up. That’s quite a hit job on Ross, wonder what they are scared of…

    • Muttonbird 7.2

      Look like Damien Grant has a soft spot for Sarah Dowie. How cute! To be fair, he might get lucky because it seems she likes to put out for manipulative RW idiots.

      • aj 7.2.1

        Grant writes:

        “Dowie has been ensnared by something even more malign than her ex. The aptly named Harmful Digital Communications Act”
        “Sarah Dowie has paid a heavy price for her affair with a fellow MP. But she shouldn’t lose her career over it, argues Damien Grant”
        “Under this atrocious piece of legislation it is illegal to suggest someone end their own life even if they elect not to take this option. It is also a crime if any electronic communication causes someone harm”

        Didn’t Dowie support and vote for this same legislation? !!

        • Muttonbird 7.2.1.1

          And Damien being the archetypal soul-less and brain-less RW idiot says blithely, “it is illegal to suggest someone end their own life even if they elect not to take this option.”

          How devoid of humanity, of compassion and basic goodness can you get?

  8. joe90 8

  9. Muttonbird 9

    Don Brash has apparently been “invited” to speak at Waitangi. Anyone else wonder who approached who on this engagement?

    Would some decent journalist like to find out?

  10. Muttonbird 10

    Interesting when you read these two articles in the same day.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2019/02/sad-week-for-dairy-industry-mourning-loss-of-two-respected-figures.html

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2019/02/revealed-southland-wetlands-are-vanishing.html

    The first laments the passing of yet another Dutchman in NZ farming, Adrian van Bysterveldt (remember how many Dutchmen are at the heart of the M Bovis outbreak). Adrian was a proponent if dairy intensification and pasture farming in the South Island over the past 15 years. Coincidentally this is the period when the same dairy intensification has damaged South Island waterways.

    The second laments exactly that, the destruction of Southland wetlands to make way for dairy intensification.

    All on the same news site but no links made…

    • Morrissey 10.1

      Fifty-eight dairy farms in Taranaki in breach of their consents. Fifty-eight.

      Dirty dairying is polluting the waterways of Taranaki, the Waikato, Southland—and the Bay of Plenty:

      FARMER No. 2: It’s all part of the joys and challenge of farming though! It’s—ha ha!—you know—-

      FARMER No. 1: Well you’re battling Mother Nature a little bit here. I mean, it was all swamp that was drained. Mother Nature wants to take it back one day probably but we’ll keep fighting!

      ….Stunned silence…

      COUNTRY LIFE: Hearing THAT, one does have to ask: SHOULD they get support to keep farming here?

      FARMER No. 1: [scrambling] Ahhhhmmm, this is, you know, very productive dairy land. We must produce a LOT for the region, not to mention, you know, the NATIONAL economy, so um, as far as cost-benefit goes, I would say the government would be making a GOOD INVESTMENT putting money into the scheme….

      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/10/one-does-have-to-ask-should-they-get.html

      https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/381631/58-taranaki-farms-in-breach-of-their-consents

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