Open mike 03/02/2020

59 comments on “Open mike 03/02/2020 ”

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1. Sanctuary 1

   3 February 2020 at 7:17 am

   Question: Why does National keep chasing the mirage of one party rule?

   I don't get Simon Bridges strategy to win the election, which makes me wonder if his strategy is actually to keep outflanking Judith Collins on the right so he keeps his job.
   • tc 1.1

     3 February 2020 at 7:57 am

     Could be neither, just wanting a distraction from the donations charges.

     NZF will get a call from one of the adults in Nationals caucus if and when required
   • Sacha 1.2

     3 February 2020 at 8:01 am

     You don't seriously think the Nats let Bridges anywhere near strategy. He does what he's told.
   • Jimmy 1.3

     3 February 2020 at 12:23 pm

     Simon knows that if the Nats are not in govt after the election he is goneburger. He also knows that Winston hates him and there is no way Winston would go in to coalition with National (at least while he is leader and numerous others like Paula Bennett are still there).

     He's trying to take away all power from NZF and push them below the 5%.

     IMO it was only a matter of timing before he announced this.
2. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 2

   3 February 2020 at 7:42 am

   As reported on the 6am news, I do like Winnie's response to Bridges inane announcement – vote for NZ First to keep the brakes on a Labour/Green government.

   I don't agree with the sentiment – hell, we need radical change to mitigate climate change, – but the idea will appeal to many disgruntled Natz. They see Soimun as a dead loss, so don't want to waste their vote on him or the nasty Natz – suddenly NZ First looks like a decent alternative.
   • Dennis Frank 2.1

     3 February 2020 at 8:04 am

     Yeah, likewise. Next poll will be interesting! I presume Farrar's polling is the basis for Simon's heroic last stand. I wonder about the precise wording of the question – crucial to how people respond, particularly in regard to centrists. I wouldn't be surprised if they are getting a false steer from the polling. Interpretation of tea leaves is variable.
   • mary_a 2.2

     3 February 2020 at 10:26 am

     Tony Veitch (not etc) … Given your points there, Simon's strategy of shunning NZF, could well backfire on him, increasing NZFs vote. It will be interesting to see how the polls roll building up to the election after Simon's latest brain fart.
3. Janet 3

   3 February 2020 at 8:50 am

   “Overcrowded schools: 508 schools over capacity”

   Not only over capacity and under resourced in places where immigrations rampant run has already done devastation to Kiwi life on many fronts, but also nothing has been significantly upgrading and improving in rural schools over New Zealand. I remember reading in the early 90,s when they were starting to build the “education business” in New Zealand that the reason was to gain funds to improve the education systems for New Zealanders. I read yesterday 111,000 overseas students expected to attend educational institutions this year. Just what exactly has happened with the revenue from this education business. Obviously has not gone back into maintaining and improving New Zealands education system for New Zealands children. I think it time to close the “business” and concentrate on our own.
   • Incognito 3.1

     3 February 2020 at 8:58 am

     The income generated by international students subsidises domestic students (AKA “our own”).
     • Sacha 3.1.1

       3 February 2020 at 9:00 am

       Has allowed govts to underfund the education system, yes.
     • RosieLee 3.1.2

       3 February 2020 at 9:02 am

       Please explain. Doesn't it just go into the education "market"?
       • Incognito 3.1.2.1

         3 February 2020 at 10:32 pm

         International students attending primary or secondary schools or tertiary education institutions pay international fees. These help boost those schools’ budgets and allows them to do loads of extra things for all students. For example, they could employ more teachers over and above the Ministry of Education entitlement to provide a wider range of subject options and smaller classes, fund extracurricular activities, sports equipment, more teacher aides for students who require learning support and extension programmes. Take the international students away and you’d take away all these extras for “our own” as well.
   • Sacha 3.2

     3 February 2020 at 8:59 am

     Janet, can you please link to the story where that initial quote came from. Sounds important.
     • Andre 3.2.1

       3 February 2020 at 9:10 am

       Appears to be from Harold. Paywalled.

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12305332
     • Janet 3.2.2

       3 February 2020 at 9:12 am

       This morning's Herald , but it is a PREMIUM article so maybe this link won,t work for you. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12305332
   • millsy 3.3

     3 February 2020 at 9:12 am

     Opening our education system to fee paying international students has only led to schools, etc catering to their interests ahead of local students, because they bring in the big bucks.

     If I was in charge, I would simply end the whole lot and tell them they need to start putting our learners first.
     • Janet 3.3.1

       3 February 2020 at 11:33 am

       Exactly , and I remember I was an adult student on a 4 year course and fees came in while I was on it. I ended up with a small student loan to complete and a qualification that was down-graded from the prospectus’s level 7 claim to a level 6 after we had graduated. This significantly impacted on my ensuing future because, with only a level 6 qualification, they would not accept me for teacher training. ( By the way the loan has never been forgiven and I am still paying it off ) Looking back now, I believe the fee introduction , because it coincided with the beginning of taking in overseas students, was really a means of “seeding “ this unnecessary and obviously unprofitable “education business.” Unprofitable in so far as it has not apparently helped New Zealand schools in any way at all.
       • Sacha 3.3.1.1

         3 February 2020 at 11:52 am

         Unprofitable in so far as it has not apparently helped New Zealand schools in any way at all.

         It has helped those schools that are attractive to paying foreign students.
         • WeTheBleeple 3.3.1.1.1

           3 February 2020 at 12:55 pm

           At university level at least, international students add to, not subtract, from the learning experience. Coming from a village of redneck racists, being part of an international team working towards common goals was the most amazing experience and something we should all go through.

           Addressing the problem of overcrowded schools we should avoid falling into xenophobic traps of blaming the foreign students and address the capitalists who squeeze such a system for all it's worth – thus cramming them in when the room's already full.

           A cap would be handy, a shutting out of foreigners would lower the standards and sounds rather Trumpian in intent.
4. Sacha 4

   3 February 2020 at 8:52 am

   Interesting reflection from author John le Carré on Brexit and the state of world politics in his speech receiving the Olof Palme prize. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/feb/01/john-le-carre-breaking-heart-brexit

   Reading and thinking about Palme makes you wonder who you are. And who you might have been, but weren’t. And where your moral courage went when it was needed.

   …

   One day somebody will explain to me why it is that, at a time when science has never been wiser, or the truth more stark, or human knowledge more available, populists and liars are in such pressing demand.
   • Dennis Frank 4.1

     3 February 2020 at 9:02 am

     Interesting that he reckons Brits ought not to blame either dinosaur party: "But don’t blame the Tories for their great victory. It was Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour party, with its un-policy on Brexit, its antisemitism and student-level Marxism-Leninism that alienated traditional Labour voters and left them nowhere to go. They looked to the left and didn’t recognise their leader. They looked to the centre and there was nobody there. They were sick of Brexit and sick of politics, and probably as sick of Johnson’s voice as I was. So they pinched their noses and voted for the least worst option. And actually, who can blame them?"

     He's probably right that blaming the dinosaurs is inappropriate. The people voted for it. So blame democracy.
     • adam 4.1.1

       3 February 2020 at 12:52 pm

       Do we really have to hear the continued lies about Corbyn and anti-semitism?

       It's a bad fucking joke at this stage and like all conspiracy theories – bat shit crazy.

       What next the world is flat or there was no moon landing?

       Go out to the garden and smell some flowers, because you're losing touch with what is real.

       Corbyn and labour are not anti-semitic – the only people who believe they are, are dupes, liars and con artists.
       • Dennis Frank 4.1.1.1

         3 February 2020 at 1:51 pm

         I agree. I never thought he was anti-semitic. I doubt le Carré ever did either. So why did you jump to the wrong conclusion?? 🙄
         • adam 4.1.1.1.1

           3 February 2020 at 2:59 pm

           You quoted it.

           Or are you in denial about that?
           • Dennis Frank 4.1.1.1.1.1

             3 February 2020 at 3:08 pm

             In that le Carré quote, you can see that he attributes anti-semitism to Labour, not to Jeremy! Read it again if you don't believe me.
             • adam …

               3 February 2020 at 3:36 pm

               You put up the quote or did you not?

               Like I said, go smell the flowers in the garden you lost touch with reality.

               You are the one using quotes to bandy around the anti-semitism conspiracy theory.
               • Dennis Frank …

                 3 February 2020 at 4:44 pm

                 No point persevering in your delusion. I actually couldn't care less how delusional you want to be!

                 Like I said, I thought it was interesting that he had that opinion. The fact that you think he was recycling a conspiracy theory, and think I was helping him do so, has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone else. It is merely your own little pet delusion.
                 • adam …

                   4 February 2020 at 2:55 pm

                   So you did not put the quote up – I see…
               • McFlock …

                 3 February 2020 at 5:08 pm

                 "Labour" and "Corbyn" are terms that denote different things.
         • Sacha 4.1.1.1.2

           3 February 2020 at 3:00 pm

           le Carre seems precise with his words. I do not know how he concludes that the UK Labour party are anti-semitic but it seems he does.
           • Dennis Frank 4.1.1.1.2.1

             3 February 2020 at 3:13 pm

             Perhaps he is simply reflecting the impression created in the public mind by the media. I suspect that many folk do actually equate condemnation of Israeli govt policy with anti-semitism. Simple-mindedness is widespread.
             • Sacha …

               3 February 2020 at 10:07 pm

               Has he ever struck you as simple-minded?
               • Dennis Frank …

                 4 February 2020 at 6:43 am

                 Oh, that implication was unintended. I meant that he seemed to be reflecting a widespread public view. Social reality gets co-constructed on a flimsy basis sometimes – people believe rumours etc. Simple-minded folk do so quite readily. Once a notion achieves currency, it flows through the crowd via gossip. Truth has very little to do with this process.

                 And then he, acting as social commentator, simply reports awareness of it happening. Just as we would report a widespread view of belief in Jesus, for instance, even though proof and thus truth-value remain absent…
   • WeTheBleeple 4.2

     3 February 2020 at 12:58 pm

     Because the cracks are showing, and they're scared.
5. Dennis Frank 5

   3 February 2020 at 9:29 am

   ""Across the globe, democracy is in a state of malaise.” That is the bleak assessment of a report from the Centre for the Future of Democracy at Cambridge University. Here in the UK, three out of five of us – 60.3% of the voting population – are unhappy with the functioning of our democracy. The last time we saw comparable levels of dissatisfaction with the way we are governed was during the “winter of discontent” in 1978-79." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/02/as-world-loses-faith-in-democracy-leaders-of-vision-are-desperately-needed

   "And there is plenty more bad news where that came from – bad news for democracy across the globe. In the US, for the first time ever, the majority lack faith in the democratic system. That decline has been rapid and recent. Before the financial crisis, more than three-quarters of Americans were satisfied with US democracy; today more than half (55%) are dissatisfied. Worldwide, 57.5% of citizens in the nations studied indicated they were not satisfied. Back in 2005, that was just 38.7%."

   I'm delighted to see this. Mainstream morons have used democracy to confine people in a conceptual strait-jacket. Now their hegemony is disintegrating. Liberation looms!

   "Taken together, these figures amount to what the report’s authors call a “global democratic recession”. The tipping point, they suggest, took place around 2005 and has led now to the “highest level of democratic discontent on record”. What is critical here is that people are growing increasingly dissatisfied not just with their political leaders but with the democratic systems that put them in place. Democracy itself is in trouble."

   Cool as!! Who'd have thought the masses were capable of learning from political experience? Not me. It's almost as if one's faith in the wisdom of the crowd may be restored. But a counter-trend to populism must emerge first, so don't jump to a premature conclusion.

   "As with all reports built on deep analysis of large data sets (in this case, 3,500 surveys involving more than 4 million respondents), the picture painted by the researchers is complex and there are multiple factors lying behind falls in levels of satisfaction. But what is not in doubt is that we should be worried."

   We refers to Guardian readers (and writers) – leftist liberals. Anxiety is likely to be bad for their mental health, but they have the freedom to choose it.

   "Millions stopped believing that democracy was functioning as it should, because the governments it produced were unable or unwilling to address the great disaster of the age." Yes, voters do expect to elect governments capable of managing disaster. Yet democracy ensures that typical nonentities get elected – by design – so it is actually irrational to expect a better-than-average performance, right?

   No, of course I don't expect Guardian writers or readers to be that rational! "In 2016, after Trump’s election, Sinclair Lewis’s dystopian novel It Can’t Happen Here, written in 1935, suddenly surged into the Amazon bestseller list. George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four enjoyed a comparable spike in sales. Readers turned to those books – one written just before the Second World War, the other just after – to look for points of similarity between the politics of the early 21st century and that of Europe in the 1920s and 30s. One often overlooked commonality is that the political crisis of the interwar years and that of our own times followed periods of complacent overconfidence in the health of democracy."

   The implicit thesis that a similar mass psychology applies now as it did then is worth contemplating. I'd like to see academics apply the rigor of social science research to the question of fascism or a preferred alternative. People will only default to fascism if the left continues to refuse to devise a genuinely progressive option for voters. The Guardian writer wimps out (as usual), merely noting the demise of liberal democracy.
6. A 6

   3 February 2020 at 9:33 am

   14 armed police to uplift baby…pity they aren't so vigilant once the kids are in state care

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12304946

   Fourteen armed police were involved in the "traumatising" uplift of a 5-month-old Māori baby from a single mother, a damning report into Oranga Tamariki's conduct reveals.

   The incident is one of hundreds of harrowing tales recorded in a Whānau Ora report on the Māori-led inquiry into the government agency released today.

   Dame Naida Glavish, who chaired the governance group overseeing the Māori review, said the report confirms "systemic failure, discrimination and inexplicable breaches of human rights towards Māori".

   "Having interviewed so many whānau it was often the same message – arriving late at night, police with them, terrorising them and leaving them emotionally drained and distraught," she said.
   • ianmac 6.1

     3 February 2020 at 1:21 pm

     Reading that and hearing about it on radio, makes you wonder if there is more to that story. What if the solo mum and baby were living with some very violent characters? Would it be a good precaution to go "prepared?"
     • A 6.1.1

       3 February 2020 at 1:30 pm

       That was my first thought too. What the heck kind of resistance are they facing?

       But then reading further down it is clear that families aren't being properly notified – a breach of natural justice. Hard to wrangle a posse of violent thugs to have on hand to prevent the uplift if you don't even know it's coming.

       In any case why is it they can’t negotiate a child’s release to them? If the family wanted what was best why would they not comply? I don’t understand the need to have (presumably) live rounds of ammo anywhere near a child.
       • weka 6.1.1.1

         3 February 2020 at 4:17 pm

         Multiple cases, and all the other state oppression around this suggests it was the state overreacting rather than a child being in immediate danger from armed offenders.
         • A 6.1.1.1.1

           3 February 2020 at 5:21 pm

           My point is that the overreaction needlessly put the child at risk.

           Loaded weapons sometimes discharge accidentally.
           • weka 6.1.1.1.1.1

             3 February 2020 at 5:33 pm

             Totally agree. My comment was more a reply to ianmac's but I put it under yours for continuity 🙂
         • Sacha 6.1.1.1.2

           3 February 2020 at 10:12 pm

           I doubt the Police would bother deploying the armed offenders squad except to an address where they had good reason to expect civilians with guns. Gang houses, for instance.

           The new armed police 'squads' riding around in SUVs, on the other hand..
   • pat 6.2

     3 February 2020 at 6:13 pm

     that account would appear to be in dispute

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018732553/oranga-tamariki-uplift-case-with-armed-police-disputed
7. mosa 7

   3 February 2020 at 11:09 am

   With the Iowas caucuses fast approaching here is a guide on how they are conducted.

   "Unlike political contests in virtually every other state, there is no secret ballot and no absentee participation — Democrats must appear in person at either their neighborhood precinct or at one of 87 satellite caucus locations "

   https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/31/us/politics/what-is-iowa-caucus.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
8. adam 8

   3 February 2020 at 12:38 pm

   "The Klan is American as apple pie"

   Joe Rogan gets all the best interviews.

   And God bless Daryl Davis

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75fGNLFAoIc&ab_channel=JREClips
9. Gosman 9

   3 February 2020 at 2:16 pm

   Good news (of sorts) for Venezuela at last. It seems the Maduro regime has pretty much abandoned the move towards Socialism and has adopted more market friendly (for leftists read "neoliberal") policies.

   https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/14766
   • adam 9.1

     3 February 2020 at 2:58 pm

     You know the politician that "fake news" site you linked to supports that loser and coup leader Juan Guaidó.

     Maybe if they stopped spreading fake news and reported facts – you might say somthing interesting.

     Like Juan Guaidó latest failed attempt at being a shill.

     https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-skips-miami-rally-dashing-hopes-of-venezuelan-opposition-leader-guaido/2020/02/01/257fc24e-4541-11ea-b5fc-eefa848cde99_story.html
10. mosa 10

    3 February 2020 at 4:23 pm

    The time is now !

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikgh4JbAWUU
11. Macro 11

    3 February 2020 at 4:49 pm

    As we approach the forthcoming elections – some sage advice:

    
    • mauī 11.1

      3 February 2020 at 6:27 pm

      The missing million should just take the elitist advice and shut up and vote 🙄

      https://twitter.com/SpryGuy/status/871432867347169280
12. A 12

    3 February 2020 at 5:22 pm

    Latest update for anyone interested

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3hNPTofEU
    • McFlock 12.1

      3 February 2020 at 5:57 pm

      If you want updates, go to WHO.
      • Anne 12.1.1

        3 February 2020 at 6:35 pm

        Exactly. They are comprised of the world's best minds on all matters concerning health. They deal only with the facts without prejudice:

        https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019
13. Robert Guyton 13

    3 February 2020 at 6:04 pm

    Australian bushfire event mirrored here:

    "Oak savannahs do not survive without people. After years of settlers grazing sheep and mowing the grasses, these lands are now recognized as a rare ecosystems, sites of natural and scientific interest. Toronto’s Urban Forestry team have introduced controlled burns in an effort to save the oak savannahs. Saving the oak savannah’s “nature” is, however, prioritized over addressing the lasting legacies of colonial violence that contributed to the degradation of these lands. The lands struggle to survive today precisely because the Indigenous peoples who gave this land its contours and significance were removed and their fires suppressed. Working without the inclusion of Indigenous people, the intensive ecological restoration efforts under way in the park today participate in an ongoing colonial project that continues to enforce the dispossession of Indigenous peoples from their lands."

    https://becomingsensor.com/#content-wrapper

    “Can we do ecology otherwise?

    Yes we can. In 2019 Becoming Sensor’s Ayelen Liberona and Natasha Myers began work to support Indigenous Elders, knowledge keepers and community leaders in their efforts to advocate for restoring Indigenous Stewardship to High Park’s lands. Indigenous Land Stewardship Toronto will begin talks with the City’s Urban Forestry team this fall to explore ways that Indigenous people can bring traditional knowledge and Indigenous science to the work of healing the land.

    Detuning colonial common sense
    The work of restoring Indigenous stewardship is not just for Indigenous people. Becoming Sensor invites you to explore how non-Indigenous people can support their efforts by detuning the colonial common sense that informs your ecological sensorium. To do this you need to forget your best training: forget what you thought “nature” was; forget how you thought life “worked”; and forget, too, the naturalizing tropes that made you believe that living beings “work” like machines, or that forests perform “ecosystems services,” or that “reproduction” and “fitness” were the only valuable and recordable measures of a life.”
14. Eco maori 14

    4 February 2020 at 6:29 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Looks like a lot of rain one metre in Milfordsounds.

    The Te Tai tokerau election is going to be interesting.

    Shows how intricate China is to the World’s economy.

    Everyone should know who I'm back to win that election.

    Ka kite Ano
15. Eco maori 15

    4 February 2020 at 6:53 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Its the actions not words that count.

    Mana Wahine.

    China is a big client of Ngāti Porou tangata let's hope that this virus issue doesn't take too long to be sorted.

    Traditional Maori medical remedies is environmentally sestanable remedys.

    Ka kite Ano.
16. Eco maori 16

    5 February 2020 at 8:28 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show

    The new Maori Battlion museum will educated New Zealand's about their stories. I read one that there uniforms had to be resized and re sowed because Maori we to big for the uniforms.

    That's cool Britain banning petrol and diesel passenger cars 5 years earlier than they planned.

    There could be pop up dental clinics in locations were people need dental care the most.???.

    The left need to learn to use the same tools as the right to win I can see all the dirty tricks the neoliberal use and will use to win.

    Ka kite Ano
17. Eco maori 17

    5 February 2020 at 6:27 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    I reckon that the locals did not want that stuff stored by their Awa.

    Wet wipes should be banned my daughter can't get by with out them for our Mokopuna never needed them back in the day I laugh at them we had cloth nappies to.???????????.

    Ka kite Ano
18. Eco maori 18

    5 February 2020 at 6:53 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Our Maori soldier of the 28 Maori Battlion gave A lot of Mana to Maori and still are in the year 2020 Ka pai.

    It looks like a great day at Waitangi today.

    Ka kite Ano

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