Open mike 03/04/2021

83 comments on “Open mike 03/04/2021 ”

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1. Pat 1

   3 April 2021 at 9:14 am

   "The obvious explanation for wealth growing during the pandemic is that we are simply seeing the effect of businesses and consumers buying into the central banks’ confidence trick.

   Monetary easing has inflated the value of house prices, shares and pension schemes beyond their fundamentals, making us collectively better off on paper – but not in actuality."

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/124468085/covid-seems-to-have-left-us-wealthier-but-less-productive-and-that-cant-add-up

   And the million dollar question is will widespread realisation be sudden or gradual?…..I’d suggest the former.
   • Graeme 1.1

     3 April 2021 at 10:54 am

     A lot of it will be the effects of the border being closed to tourism. The money we would have spent travelling the world has been spent in New Zealand, with multiplier effects as that moves around the economy, or saved. So individually and collectively we get richer.

     I wouldn't be surprised if one of the 'learnings' once the washup is done of our Covid experience is that tourism, both outbound and inbound was a major net negative to our economy.
     • Andre 1.1.1

       3 April 2021 at 12:05 pm

       Ahem. Correct management-speak is 'learnings going forwud'.
     • Pat 1.1.2

       3 April 2021 at 12:46 pm

       The multiplier effect works in both directions.

       The 'fundamentals' he references is essentially productivity .

       Productivity is essentially more efficient use of energy.

       EROI is decreasing so productivity must decrease.

       And yet we waste that energy on consumerism.

       Having said I agree that we may belatedly realise that our 'biggest export earner' was in fact simply a swap to enable the few to live the life of Riley
     • woodart 1.1.3

       3 April 2021 at 1:27 pm

       yes, many in my circle of aquantainances have spent up large on toys(boats, motorcycles,cars, spa pools etc) with $$$ that would otherwise be taken offshore. too many of our local tourism ventures are overseas owned and many busloads of asian tourists spend there money in asian owned facilities, so NZ really only benefits from gst, not the whole pie.I think you are on point graeme.
2. Byd0nz 2

   3 April 2021 at 10:18 am

   https://sptnkne.ws/FP7Z

   A comment on the BBC.

   British tax payers compulsory funding of this Imperialist propaganda tool.
   • Andre 2.1

     3 April 2021 at 10:39 am

     Buwaaaahaha!

     Pot calling the kettle black just nibbles at the edges of this one, an outright disinformation tool of the expansionist kremlin calling anyone else a propaganda tool.
     • RedLogix 2.1.1

       3 April 2021 at 11:14 am

       How about we recognise that all the major nation's use soft power projection? And media channels which selectively distort and misinform are just part of this game? And that relying on any one of them to try and gain an objective sense of reality is just going to disappoint.

       And at the same time there is still a remarkable amount of usable information out there, most sources don't make up shit all of the time, they cannot entirely disconnect from reality. Even uncritical people notice that.

       Right now the media world is in a tough place, with reliable professionalism under siege from multiple directions. It's very difficult for any individual in the system to write fearlessly on all topics. But most of the time they do their best, and if in sum the ‘media’ falls short of our ideals, we can be grateful that we have literally at our fingertips a torrent of information that was unimaginable even just 30 years ago.

       And it's a wild torrent that demands some effort if you want to swim in it.
       • AB 2.1.1.1

         3 April 2021 at 11:36 am

         It's also a torrent that is impossible to navigate without some structural understanding of how the world works. That this understanding can harden into ideology doesn't mean that we don't need it. The proliferation of lunacy we see everywhere parallels the proliferation of information.
         • RedLogix 2.1.1.1.1

           3 April 2021 at 11:46 am

           Yes that's a really good way of putting it.

           It's also why I've shifted my attention away from ideologies and toward the geopolitical and demographic realities that determine the fate of nations in the long run.

           And one of the few good things about getting older is that I can look back and observe the things I used to believe, which have turned out to be not so true. And then contemplate that a fair chunk of what I believe now will likely have the same fate.
           • Incognito 2.1.1.1.1.1

             3 April 2021 at 12:09 pm

             We all need some kind of belief and values system as a framework to conceive, grow, and store and share our hopes, dreams, and aspirations for and about the world and ourselves. This will give is a relatively safe haven to anchor and moor without which we will be pounded and pummelled by the waves and tidal currents of time and smashed on the rocks of reality. However, from time to time, we have to lift the anchor and leave the familiar small surroundings and seek other new places before they turn into a bay of boredom and we lose our mobility and become stale and fixated. After all, we are all sailors on an ocean of possibilities and fishermen of the sea.
             • RedLogix …

               3 April 2021 at 12:43 pm

               A very apt metaphor.
               • Muttonbird …

                 3 April 2021 at 9:44 pm

                 This is weird. I thought you were banned for abuse until after Easter. How is it you are still able to comment here today?
                 • McFlock …

                   3 April 2021 at 10:04 pm

                   Bit unclear as to what the mod meant by "you two".

                   Gabby definitely one, replying to RL, but there also seemed to be a comment that didn't get past premod or got deleted? but then Adrian has also been commenting today.
                   • Incognito …

                     4 April 2021 at 3:43 pm

                     FYI

                     Very few comments never make it through to the front-end. This can happen when a ‘new’ commenter does not get past the Pre-Mod filter, e.g. when it is spam, utter vile crap, or an existing user trying to bypass a ban. Sometimes, commenters are put in Pre-Mod for a specific reason, but this always comes with a warning.

                     We never delete a comment from an existing user after it has actually appeared in the front-end without telling; it’ll show up as [deleted] and often is self-explanatory to the commenter and/or comes with a brief explanation – all this takes up Moderator time.

                     I’d like to think that Moderators here act with honesty and integrity and we can get a bit shitty when we’re accused of ‘censorship’ in all its gory forms.

                     HTH
                 • Incognito …

                   4 April 2021 at 3:27 pm

                   A textbook example of wishful thinking AKA believing is seeing 😀

                   When I said “you two”, I obviously referred to Gabby and the Easter bunny. Doh!
                   • Muttonbird …

                     4 April 2021 at 3:31 pm

                     It wasn't obvious at all.

                     Silly of me to expect that particular moderator to be held to the same standard as we mortals.
                   • Incognito []

                     4 April 2021 at 3:51 pm

                     Well, Gabby and the Easter bunny did get it. So, obviously, it was obvious enough to them; your miscomprehension is irrelevant regardless unless you thought that RL was or should have been banned, which is also misplaced and irrelevant regardless.

                     Stop digging a hole for yourself.
                   • Muttonbird …

                     4 April 2021 at 4:04 pm

                     Neither McFlock nor myself 'got it' so, yeah. Part of the problem for commenters is cryptic moderation notes.

                     [Part of the problem for Moderators is that you keep on creating problems here and that you don’t take a hint. In other words, stubborn obnoxious recidivist behaviour that is wasting time. I’m not going to waste my time repeating what I’ve written to you in recent comments and Moderation notes, one of which was a particularly clear Moderation note (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-30-03-2021/#comment-1785916). Stop digging a hole or meet that molehill that you seem to be seeking so desperately; the signpost is clearly labelled: molehill or freedom to comment here. This is your warning – Incognito]
                   • Incognito []

                     4 April 2021 at 5:50 pm

                     See my Moderation note @ 4:04 PM.
                   • Muttonbird …

                     4 April 2021 at 6:36 pm

                     First time I've seen that "particularly clear" moderation note.

                     You didn't follow my comment very closely if you think I labelled RL's comment "woke-left". My entire position was that the use of the term right wing was for some reason frowned upon yet RL uses the pejorative "woke-left" on a daily basis in order to wind up commenters here.

                     [The onus is on you to read the replies to your comments and the alerts to Moderation notes.

                     You’re still trying to manipulate me into taking sides in your personal vendetta against RL. In fact, I’m starting to think that you’re trying to deliberately wind up RL and me as well.

                     You’re still ignoring the fact that you’re being moderated for your behaviour and conduct here on this site.

                     Stop wasting my time; this is your final warning – Incognito]
                   • Incognito []

                     4 April 2021 at 8:25 pm

                     See my Moderation note @ 6:36 pm.
             • Drowsy M. Kram …

               3 April 2021 at 12:51 pm

               Brilliant!
           • Anne 2.1.1.1.1.2

             3 April 2021 at 7:56 pm

             I can look back and observe the things I used to believe, which have turned out to be not so true. And then contemplate that a fair chunk of what I believe now…

             It's a by product of getting old RL.

             Another way of saying;

             If only I knew then what I know now things might have been different. 😉
         • Andre 2.1.1.1.2

           3 April 2021 at 12:02 pm

           The proliferation of lunacy has less to do with the proliferation of information, but more to do with the proliferation of misinformation and disinformation.

           To take the favourite example of the convergence moonbats trying to discredit mainstream media, the Iraq WMD lies (disinformation), the mainstream media were correctly and reporting the (evidence free) assertions of the Shrub and Blair administrations as assertions, and the misinformation reports originating from Ahmed Chalabi via Chris Hedges and Judith Miller and others, they were also reporting the (valid information as it turned out) leaks from the intelligence communities that those claims were a crock of crap, and also reporting the valid information that Hans Blix and his team of UN inspectors were finding nothing of significance that might justify an invasion.

           Sorting the valid information from the crap is the difficult bit. It becomes a bit easier when you just don't give those in the habit of flooding the zone with shit an entry into your news stream.
           • RedLogix 2.1.1.1.2.1

             3 April 2021 at 12:42 pm

             And then there are those in the habit of not telling you that which they don't want you to know. That's a lot harder to detect if you only pay attention to a few 'good' channels that you happen to like. The absence of something is always much less apparent.
       • Andre 2.1.1.2

         3 April 2021 at 11:50 am

         Thing is, on the rare (very rare) occasions Sputnik and RT have some sort of actual connection with reality, it's because reality just happens to align with what the Kremlin wants others to think.

         The rarity of those occasions in the zone that's otherwise flooded with shit disinformation makes it a waste of time trying to filter through it, unless one has a particular interest in trying to sift through the sewage to glean what might be current Kremlin motivations.
         • Stuart Munro 2.1.1.2.1

           3 April 2021 at 2:10 pm

           It's a shame, because in the first couple of years, before the state agenda began to dominate reporting, they really were a breathe of fresh air.
           • Morrissey 2.1.1.2.1.1

             3 April 2021 at 2:22 pm

             It's a shame, because in the first couple of years, before the state agenda began to dominate reporting, they really were a breathe [sic] of fresh air.

             You're correct to note the heavy bias of RT. I'm really appalled by the way they routinely use the most extreme right wing British and American talk radio boofheads to comment on British and American politics. Peter Lavelle's Crosstalk often threatens to be an interesting and informative program but is frequently derailed by the host himself unleashing some crazed extreme right wing opinions that ruin the rest of the program. On the plus side, however, RT regularly features real journalists and academics of unimpeachable integrity, such as Chris Hedges, Norman Finkelstein, and Noam Chomsky.
             • McFlock …

               3 April 2021 at 3:46 pm

               So does that description imply to you a primary editorial inclination towards truth, a primary editorial inclination towards clickbait, or a primary editorial inclination towards supporting internal criticism within the US and "West"?

               Or some other primary editorial inclination?

               Because it seems to me that their main role in regards to international affairs is to confuse reporting of Russian actions and motives while providing handy links and "evidence" for americans and western europeans to sow discontent within america and western europe. And any similarity with real people or events is purely coincidental.
         • Morrissey 2.1.1.2.2

           3 April 2021 at 2:15 pm

           Thing is, on the rare (very rare) occasions Sputnik and RT have some sort of actual connection with reality, it's because reality just happens to align with what the Kremlin wants others to think.

           A mirror image, then, of the British state broadcaster, the BBC.
           • Andre 2.1.1.2.2.1

             3 April 2021 at 2:35 pm

             Nope, not a mirror image. The BBC frequently reports things that the UK government of the day would prefer were left unaired.

             The bias in the BBC is merely consistent with its decision makers having the UK's best interests at heart, which is quite different to the way RT and Sputnik act as propaganda organisations promoting whatever disinformation the Kremlin is pushing at that moment.
             • Morrissey …

               3 April 2021 at 2:52 pm

               The BBC frequently reports things that the UK government of the day would prefer were left unaired.

               That was the case briefly at the beginning of this century. That period of independence came to a brutal end in 2003, after Andrew Gilligan plainly stated live on radio that the intelligence used to justify the attack on Iraq was "sexed up", i.e. manipulated and untrustworthy. Blair's chief enforcer, Alistair Campbell, instigated a jihad against the BBC, ensuring that the insubordinate and awkward director-general Greg Dyke—he believed his duty was to serve the public, not the Blair regime—was forced out and replaced by the compliant and reliable functionary Mark Thompson. The rest is gloomy and infuriating history.
               • Incognito …

                 3 April 2021 at 3:03 pm

                 https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/mar/02/bbc-defends-distinctive-programmes-against-government-criticism
             • The Al1en …

               3 April 2021 at 3:13 pm

               Yes, the BBC publishes articles containing critique of the UK government, it's actions and policies. I've asked before from those spouting the editorial 'independence' of RT etc. to link to stories criticising Putin or what he does in a negative light, but no joy as yet.

               Today on the BBC UK politics page there are pieces on the outcry against the governments plan for covid passports for pubs and the Tory reception of the racial disparity report.

               Not to mention TV programs like Panorama, which regularly put the boot in to the annoyance of number 10.
               • Andre …

                 3 April 2021 at 3:47 pm

                 TBH, I don't pay much attention to the UK. It's just that there's been a bunch of times some topic has caught my eye and I've followed a BBC link for more info, and thought 'ooh, [prominent UK government figure] isn't going to like that getting out'.
               • Anne …

                 3 April 2021 at 8:21 pm

                 The BBC is in a spot of bother if the documentary about the famous Princess Diana interview some 25 plus years the other night on TV1 is to be believed.

                 Its shaping up to be a story full of lies, deceit and dirty tricks followed by the inevitable cover-up by management.
                 • The Al1en …

                   3 April 2021 at 9:13 pm

                   Well the police have decided to rule out a criminal investigation into Bashir, the interviewer, over allegations from the Spencer family about the alleged use of false documentation to get HRH to do the sit down, so looks like bother gone.

                   Though if it were true, surely it would be a case of the Beeb going against the establishment and, not doing it's bidding, which is the opposite of what some people are saying.

                   With regards to the BBC making content against the government's party lines, I'd suggest you seek out the Panorama episode about their mismanagement of ppe supplies from last year. Shockingly on target.
                   The BBC then came under fire for using ‘labour activists’ to push the message in the program.
                   • Anne …

                     3 April 2021 at 10:02 pm

                     The BBC then came under fire for using ‘labour activists’ to push the message in the program.

                     So, if they had been 'tory activists' pushing a line then I presume they would not come under fire – at least not to the same extent.

                     If 'the state' decrees there is to be no investigation then the police will not investigate. Wouldn't be the first time that has happened and it won't be the last.
                   • The Al1en …

                     3 April 2021 at 10:14 pm

                     You'll have to put it in context with what's been written above.

                     The notion being that the BBC is a total shill for the British government. Using the examples I've given, that is very much open to debate. It certainly isn't an organisation in any way equivalent to those pushing Russian propaganda.

                     That is all.
   • Adrian Thornton 2.2

     3 April 2021 at 12:42 pm

     The BBC World service is most certainly a propaganda tool of the UK government..

     " BBC World Service is not regulated by Ofcom. Instead the BBC is responsible for setting its overall strategic direction, the budget and guarding its editorial independence for World Service. It must set and publish a Licence for the World Service, which defines its remit, scope, annual budget and main commitments, as well as "objectives, targets and priorities" which are agreed with the Foreign Secretary."

     https://www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/governance/regulation

     But as I mentioned only yesterday on OP, there are a bunch of regular commentors here on TS whom, as it turns out have a world view that aligns up with the UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab and his UK conservative party like a hand in a glove…go figure, yet for some reason only known to them, they insist on thinking themselves Left or Left leaning, when in reality they are more like some sort of post modernist colonialist hybrid, who also it seems, have a very distinct attraction to western authoritarianism (as long as it if coated in liberal sensibilities).

     "
     • Jenny how to get there 2.2.1

       5 April 2021 at 8:26 am

       "….. as I mentioned only yesterday on OP, there are a bunch of regular commentors here on TS whom, as it turns out have a world view that aligns up with the UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab and his UK conservative party like a hand in a glove…go figure, yet for some reason only known to them, they insist on thinking themselves Left or Left leaning, when in reality they are more like some sort of post modernist colonialist hybrid, who also it seems, have a very distinct attraction to western authoritarianism (as long as it if coated in liberal sensibilities)."
       Adrian Thornton

       3 April 2021 at 12:42 pm

       I admit I could be wrong, but I am guessing, that you are referring here Adrian, to my and others comments yesterday.

       Open mike 02/04/2021

       Instead of replying to my comments and debating directly, you have slunk away from open debate and resorted to making sly digs in other threads.

       As I said in reply to Bill's accusation that I am guilty of not "engaging or debating".

       "it is you and the other supporters of the Syrian regime who refuse to engage or debate"
       Jenny

       14 February 2017 at 5:36 am

       It is a fear of engaging in open debate with someone who actually has experience of Syria, that is a noticable defining feature of supporters of the Assad regime at this website.

       Back in 2017 I also wrote this:

       "In my opinion it can be reasonably argued that the failure of the Liberal Centre Left to show solidarity with the Syrian people, and instead side with the regime that is oppressing and murdering them, has helped prolong this war on the Syrian people by the Assad regime and its foreign allies, and helped fuel islamaphobia here."
       Jenny

       14 February 2017 at 5:20 am

       March 15 is the globally recognised anniversary date of the start of the Syrian revolution. Two years after I made the above observation, in March 2019, as Syrian refugees from the Assad regime and their supporters were preparing to mark this anniversary, the anti-Islamic terrorist chose this date to launch his murderous attack in Christchurch.

       Don't support fascism. It really shouldn't have to be said.
       • Adrian Thornton 2.2.1.1

         5 April 2021 at 9:25 am

         No, because as usual you seem to intentionally not address the outrageous western Weaponizing of the OCPW….which is what I have been posting about. I can’t believe I have to go over this again FFS..I have never uttered one word of support for Assad…but you people seem to think that all of a sudden the CIA and the western military industrial complex are the friends of the Left, and freedom fighters around the world (WTF!)…it is actually people like you who through your blinkered support for a legitimate uprisings, have wilfully allowed yourselves to be turned into useful idiots to western military/corporate hegemony..well done.

         You hit the nail on the head.." Don't support fascism. It really shouldn't have to be said."…quite right, maybe you should stop doing it then.
         • Stuart Munro 2.2.1.1.1

           5 April 2021 at 10:30 am

           the outrageous western Weaponizing of the OCPW….

           Perhaps you should explain this particularly gross misrepresentation, Adrian. You have one or possibly two very marginal instances of possible OPCW error, out of hundreds of events. The OPCW moreover went to considerable lengths to try to satisfy the complainants, but was obliged to face the fact that ultimately their sole objective was to discredit the organization and the mission.

           The Russian media have beaten it up to the skies, and dupes like you parrot that incessantly – but essentially the OPCW is on the ground to clean up the chemical weapons made by Russia and accumulated by the Assad regime. Just as they spent some years in Russia at US & UN expense cleaning up multiple soviet era chemical weapon sites.

           The only outrageous weaponising of the OPCW is by you and your fellow dupes.
         • Jenny how to get there 2.2.1.1.2

           5 April 2021 at 11:46 am

           There you go again Adrian, actively ignoring/denying genocide.

           Genocide denial, like Holocaust denial, is an expression of support for fascism.

           Let me repeat that; 'Genocide denial is support for fascism'.

           That the Assad regime has been committing genocide against its own people is an absolute fact that you refuse to face.

           Instead of addressing this fact you choose to throw up dust around the gas attacks.

           I put up a link to a video which goes in depth to expose the conspiracy theories around the gas attacks being spread about by the Assad regime and Russia and their useful idiots, that variously claim, (a) the gas attacks didn't happen at all or, (b). were the work of the opposition who gassed their own supporters to discredit your fascist hero.

           But I am not going to debate with you the various weaknesses of fascist propaganda around the sarin and chlorine gas attacks against Syrian civilians, that most definitely did happen.

           Instead I put up a video of the destruction of the revolutionary city of Homs by the Assad regime.

           Every single one of the genocide deniers and pro-Assad apologists on this site, have to date repeatedly refused to answer the simple question I have posed. Every single one.

           Maybe you are different Adrian, maybe you might have enough conscience to look into the abyss and admit that you are playing a game of interference in support of a genocidal fascist style regime.

           So I will pose the question again,

           Who did this?

           And is it not evidence of genocide?
           • Adrian Thornton 2.2.1.1.2.1

             5 April 2021 at 12:37 pm

             I am not going to keep on going around in circles with you, this is a pointless and a waste of time, you and Stuart Munro are just too far gone to have any kind of rational debate with…well too far gone.
             • Incognito …

               5 April 2021 at 12:52 pm

               Rationally and reasonably, you would then stop reading their comments and stop replying to them. But you don’t and you won’t. You’re a walking card-carrying self-contradiction and don’t want to see it and/or admit it.
               • Adrian Thornton …

                 5 April 2021 at 1:47 pm

                 Thanks for your insightful phycology lesson there Incognito, maybe you would do well to turn that lens on yourself and see what it is inside of you that makes you compulsively want to control all those in your orbit..now that would be something interesting to get to the bottom of, don’t you think?

                 BTW every human being on this planet is a “walking card-carrying self-contradiction” and so as you have obviously never been self-aware enough to have ever acknowledge that about yourself…welcome to the club, I think we will get along just fine LOL!!!

                 [RL: The role of moderators is essential. Their purpose is to put limits on people’s behaviour and attempt to instill a culture of constructive conversation. The deal is that if you want to continue to comment here, you respect that role.

                 Having done it intensively for a number of years here I’m vividly aware of how much goes into good moderation, and how much everyone else benefits from it. The two primary mods we have here at present, weka and Incognito, are doing a way better job of it than I ever did. While it’s a job that can never make everyone happy, I’m fed up seeing this kind of casual undermining. It’s not a game worth playing.

                 Get this through your head – no-one, but no-one ever enjoyed being moderated, and you are certainly not the first. But it’s a fact of life and you either suck it up like a big boy or sulk off elsewhere.]
                 • Incognito …

                   5 April 2021 at 1:59 pm

                   I hate rock snot.
               • mauī …

                 5 April 2021 at 1:49 pm

                 What makes you think Adrian hasn't stopped? I think he just indicated he's walking away from this one.
                 • Incognito …

                   5 April 2021 at 2:01 pm

                   Oh dear, you go me there
             • Jenny how to get there …

               6 April 2021 at 3:30 am

               Au revoir Adrian,

               As you depart the scene.

               Something we should all be aware of and try and guard against and take notice of and continually check ourselves on.

               'Confirmation Bias'

               Adrian it's disapointing that you refuse to answer the question, and instead run away from the debate. But, I've come to expect it. The reason you, and others like you will not answer the question, is because it challenges your preconceived black and white assumptions.

               Reading up on the fixed views of conservatives like Ted Cruz, I came across the following quote.

               "It’s part of human nature to want to resist information that contradicts with the way we see the world. Psychologists call the practice confirmation bias, and define it as the tendency to interpret information in ways that support our preconceptions."

               https://www.salon.com/2015/04/07/ted_cruz_is_dangerous_why_liberals_scoff_at_his_campaign_at_their_peril_partner/

               A few people read my debates with Assad apologists here, the feedback I get is how can be so tolerant as to engage with people who excuse genocide?

               The answer is; I could be where you are, that is if I had not had the life changing privilege to be in the Middle East at the time to be witness to the first stirrings of the Arab Spring.

               I wish I had stayed.
   • weston 2.3

     3 April 2021 at 1:40 pm

     From comments found under a piece by Novara Media concerning the bbc a quite choice quote by Arundhati Roy : on national flags " First they use them as shrinkwrap for your brain ,then as ceremonial shrouds for their war dead "
     • Adrian Thornton 2.3.1

       3 April 2021 at 11:20 pm

       Great quote, plenty of people on this site have never seen a western regime change war that hasn't got them all juiced up….these free market liberals are just as jingoistic, ruthless and bloodthirsty as any right wing conservative as it turns out….guess that's why they line up with the UK conservatives so well….a perfect fit.
3. Andre 3

   3 April 2021 at 12:41 pm

   Former Repug Speaker of the House John Boehner has his say on the crazies of the past decade and Faux News' part in fomenting the crazy.

   https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/04/02/john-boehner-book-memoir-excerpt-478506
   • RedLogix 3.1

     3 April 2021 at 12:50 pm

     An interesting quote from that link:

     The funny thing is, Michele Bachmann turned out to be a very focused, hardworking member—even though she spent a few months later in 2011 on a short-lived campaign for president. She showed up to the committee, did her homework, and ended up winning over her fellow members with her dedication. Mike Rogers was impressed—and I have to admit, so was I. The whole situation ended up working out well for everyone. As one of those old Boehnerisms goes, “Get the right people on the bus, and help them find the right seat.”

     An exercise in getting a loose cannon pointed in a less dangerous direction, actually turned out quite well. It's why I tend to think of at least 95% of people as pretty decent really, with the potential to be great in the right circumstances.
4. Muttonbird 4

   3 April 2021 at 12:57 pm

   'Zero Covid' strategy far better for economy, European think-tank concludes

   Pursuing a “zero Covid” strategy is best for health outcomes and the economy.

   Everyone in NZ except for the National Party and David Seymour knew this to be true. Multiple studies, including this one, have confirmed that the New Zealand government's Covid strategy (with fast financial support) is better for both health and economic outcomes.

   But more countries need to commit to the programme for the leaders to get the full benefit, a European think-tank has concluded.

   Recovery in zero-Covid countries was to some extent at the mercy of policies in countries where that was not the goal, the institute suggested.

   “The recovery is limited only by the failure of other countries to achieve this goal and this should motivate better global collaboration for achieving a shared end.”

   This is now the concern. Conservative countries which are bizarrely wedded to 'freedom at any cost' will continue to drag the chain and jeopardise not only their own populations but the world as a whole. Their disastrous Covid-19 response damages those who have done well.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124739946/zero-covid-strategy-far-better-for-economy-european-thinktank-concludes
   • greywarshark 4.1

     3 April 2021 at 1:37 pm

     edit
     UK goes its own way at its peril, and that of its hapless population. People in UK need more 'hap' before they can get happy.

     At the Covid 19 start. Easy-peasy will do it suggests Boris.

     https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/03/16/report-boris-johnson-said-uk-should-ignore-covid-19-at-the-start-of-the-pandemic/?sh=56542f144285

     (Bill Bailey talked about Johnson as being a mobile haystack! So good.)

     Boorish hasn't improved. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/27/data-still-supports-lifting-covid-19-restrictions-insists-boris-johnson

     But the Easter Bunny came along and looked up at Boris and said – Que? (it was Manuel’s pet). And so Boris has had to buckle down and face off his mates while he sets another lockdown to end all lockdowns
     
     Que is the most common word in Spanish, according to one study I read. It’s most often used as a conjunction and/or relative pronoun, then (with tilde) as interrogative “What” (Qué). It has many uses, and like a chameleon, can change its meaning to suit the context of the sentence.
     https://www.spanishdict.com/answers/181220/so-much-trouble-understanding-when-que-is-used-
     • mikesh 4.1.1

       4 April 2021 at 2:36 pm

       As I understand it, the word que in latin means and. As in senatus populusque romanus (the senate and the roman people). I'm not how this differs from the word et. Perhaps this word is used in the sense of also as in et te Brute, (You too, Brutus?)
       • greywarshark 4.1.1.1

         4 April 2021 at 6:34 pm

         I looked up google and it gave me Manuel (Fawlty Towers) meaning. Sorry I'm just one of the hoi polloi with language, learning as I go.
   • KSaysHi 4.2

     3 April 2021 at 9:10 pm

     Zero Covid seems unlikely.
     • Muttonbird 4.2.1

       3 April 2021 at 9:15 pm

       It's 'Zero Covid strategy', KSays. Read and understand the link please.
   • Jenny how to get there 4.3

     5 April 2021 at 6:32 am

     "…. more countries need to commit to the programme for the leaders to get the full benefit, a European think-tank has concluded."

     One country that won't commit to the program is Australia, which has an official policy of 'suppression' rather than 'elimination', New Zealand's policy.

     New Zealand is preparing to open a quarantine free travel bubble with Australia, unless Australia agrees to adopt New Zealand's policy of elimination, (which Scott Morrison has said Australia will never do), New Zealand will be defacto adopting Australia's policy of suppression.

     Private Wealth vs. Public Health

     Suppression not elimination
     https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6836358/elimination-risky-and-illusory-scott-morrison/

     Elimination not suppression
     http://isocracy.org/content/elimination-not-suppression
5. aj 5

   3 April 2021 at 1:10 pm

   Their disastrous Covid-19 response damages those who have done well.

   One of the big stories over the next 12-18 months will be whether or not these nations will bite the bullet or let the pandemic run through, hoping vaccines do the work for them. Which they may not.
6. greywarshark 6

   3 April 2021 at 1:11 pm

   All lively lads and lasses who work in ways and places that NZ needs, that earns its own money from graft not grift, and who appreciate having a life and a society with standards and fairness; a country to be proud of living in for ordinary people as well as the 'swells'. I suggest that a few of you who are motivated with these sorts of ideas do this. Start a facebook page, capture a domain name, and the rights to the name wherever you have to apply to legally acquire it. And become a centre for go-ahead people who are trying to downsize consumption, buy local, get out of 4WDs and large people movers not needed, be into conservation and conversation, a helping hand for others and all families and children, and practical kindness.

   You need to get together – in the old saying 'Birds of a feather flock together' – seen the starling images when they fly off? I will put my idea for a name for you on this blog on Tuesday night after seven after you have had Easter to think about this idea. If the active amongst you haven't thought of better, I suggest that someone with the vitals grab it and run with it as I have suggested. I think a lot of us are into 'rolling up our sleeves and doing' – we've all heard, read, done enough talking, chewing the cud! Things have to be moved with people power or what we want won't happen at all, and machines will fill the slack with empty promises and hype that fools people into thinking the answer is going to come from the tech direction.

   Saying 'There is no time like the present'!
7. greywarshark 7

   3 April 2021 at 1:56 pm

   I see that projections are for Auckland to inflate to 2 million from present 1.7m by early 2030s. Why wait till then, stacks on the mill, as the kids' game used to chant. An extra 1900 people a month appears somewhere in the item in Stuff p.12 Apr.1/21.

   It was short and didn't have room to state guesses on when gridlock will be reached, or when police will start evicting people from favelas along motorways and under bridges. (They have already closed down a caravan park in the last decades because some criminals lived there.)

   And will people in Auckland fund a charity hospital as they do in Christchurch for the large number of uncared for people? It may be that the Aucklanders will have no money left over after paying for their houses if they have managed to get their fingertips on one, and won a loan in the Australian bank's monthly lottery which they will probably set up soon.
   • Incognito 7.1

     3 April 2021 at 3:10 pm

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/124732205/new-population-projections-show-growing-upper-north-island-dominance-with-solid-showing-from-christchurch
     • greywarshark 7.1.1

       3 April 2021 at 4:02 pm

       I had a look at the on-line link incognito. It is really upsetting to read the way this article is slanted – that growth in population is automatically good, and the bigger the better. Despite a small mention of problems.

       ...The medium projection is considered suitable for assessing future population changes, and this week’s release contained the usual gloom about a higher proportion of older people and a declining percentage of children…

       (Anyone who is aware knows that NZ is no longer a good place to bring up children as was once proclaimed. In fact it seems that the government finds them a burden with all their needs from start to adulthood. It's more efficient to bring in families from overseas where they have been educated at the family's expense or of that country.)

       But beyond that, the cities of Hamilton and Tauranga – the other two hubs in the golden triangle – are expected to grow at the same rate as Auckland.

       …By 2033, the projected population for the three regions is put at 2.93m – 51.7 per cent of the national total of 5.68m. For 2048, the figure is 3.32m – 53.4 per cent of the New Zealand population of 6.21m.

       Further south, Christchurch, when combined with the adjacent districts where much of the area’s new housing is going – is thought likely to stay close to the leading bunch.

       (Sounds like a racing commentary. Listen to Spike Jones' one – 'and Banana is coming through the bunch!').

       Christchurch City had a 2018 population of 383,800, and on its own has an unspectacular annual growth projection of 0.6 per cent.

       But the South Island’s main centre has a more robust look to it when the Waimakariri District – projected average annual growth 1 per cent – and Selwyn District -1.7 per cent – are added. Combined, the three territorial authorities had a population of 508,400 in 2018 – 10.4 per cent of the national total.

       (Like a faster growing population makes a place More Robust! Weak minds repeating weak ideas here.)

       And at the bottom, a message from Stuff: …'Why? Because with the pandemic situation constantly changing, it’s easy for misinformation and rumours to take hold. You can rely on Stuff’s journalists to question the decision-makers, interview experts, and use eyewitness reporting to answer your key questions with facts and context.'

       It certainly is hard to keep on top of the tide of information, checking for tainted facts and what environment they arise from.
       • Pat 7.1.1.1

         3 April 2021 at 7:56 pm

         The Mayor announced some years after the quakes that she had a target of increasing (greater) Christchurch's population to one million within (if I recall correctly) 20 years……she never mentioned it again.
       • KSaysHi 7.1.1.2

         3 April 2021 at 9:14 pm

         What a horrible projection. Now I understand the property investor who commented yesterday that the prices of houses would not be coming down (in fact not for the forseeable future, the changes in his opinion would only temporarily slow things). How depressing.
8. greywarshark 8

   3 April 2021 at 2:16 pm

   edit
   The experiment of government central and local contracting business carry out its services should now draw to a close. It was an expensive one in the long term, and while it did lead to some improvements it appears that it cannot cope with the constant ramifications that arise in the fast-changing social and physical environment. While tied down to tight contracts and a business case that forces it to answer to shareholders requirements for profit, it cannot meet needs when presenting in reality which can multiply daily.

   (Paragraph from a yet-to-be presented report from someone who has a bigger brain than the average bear.)

   http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=135195

   70 NZ Bus Cancellations "Not Good Enough"

   Opinion from Metlink
   Passengers travelling on Metlink services operated by NZ Bus experienced almost 70 last-minute cancellations on Wednesday. Metlink General Manager Scott Gallacher said the recent service from NZ Bus simply wasn’t good enough.
9. joe90 9

   3 April 2021 at 3:08 pm

   The GOP's favourite Russian.

   

   Wow. Instead of being visited by a Dr, @navalny was visited by a team from RT, led by MARIA BUTINA (yes, the same woman convicted in the US of being a Russian agent). She shouted this was the best prison. Navalny then called her a parasite and a servant of the power of thieves. https://t.co/CaFTKHIz1F

   — Bianna Golodryga (@biannagolodryga) April 1, 2021

   RT “reporter” Maria Butina in a confrontational exchange with @navalny (notable he is off camera He’s lost 17 lbs, suffering leg and back pain). While he describes the prison as tortuous, she is shocked. “This is torture? This is better than some rural Russian hotels.” 👀 https://t.co/GLa2QGt1qh

   — Bianna Golodryga (@biannagolodryga) April 2, 2021
   • Adrian Thornton 9.1

     3 April 2021 at 11:50 pm

     Oh do you mean the racist nationalist Alexey Navalny that Amnesty International dropped because of his known racist rhetoric…the Navalny who was funded by the US backed National Endowment for Democracy (a known funding route for the CIA) in his Russian election run?…(isn't that kind of like election interference? and here I was thinking you guys hated it when countries meddled in other peoples elections, guess you don't give a shit about that after all)

     The US government and the Russian election

     https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/12/27/pers-d27.html
     • The Al1en 9.1.1

       4 April 2021 at 12:37 am

       
       • Adrian Thornton 9.1.1.1

         4 April 2021 at 9:05 am

         That was pretty good, thanks…reminded me of Samurai Jack (one of my favourite modern animated series).
     • Stuart Munro 9.1.2

       4 April 2021 at 8:52 am

       Oh – you mean Putin is not nationalist? Or racist?

       Lacking decades of exposure to a reforming activist base, Russia is as racist as it gets – hence the war of extermination in Chechnya.

       To feed your own nonsense back at you: since Russia doesn't give a flying finangle about racism, and is cheerfully nationalist, shouldn't they love Navalny?

       But Navalny has committed the unforgiveable crime of revealing the truth about Putin's republic of thieves – something RT will never do.

       Have you no shame though, as a professed lefty, supporting this murderous kleptocrat? What would Putin have to do to disabuse you of your infatuation? He's already a genocide, an autocrat, a rigger of elections and a poisoner of political alternatives. Does he have to eat babies live onscreen, or would that too be America's fault?
       • Adrian Thornton 9.1.2.1

         4 April 2021 at 10:14 am

         FFS man "Oh – you mean Putin is not nationalist? Or racist?"…I know Putin is a probably a racist and is definitely a nationalist…but he is not the man that the west and you guys are spouting as some sort of Russian arch angle ready to free the Russian people from their evil overlord… maybe you should check out Putin's popularity stats in his own country once and while to get a grip on the reality over there…but I can tell you this for sure, any politician so obviously backed by the USA is never going to get any real in traction in Russia…sort of like your man Guaido in Venezuela.
         If the Russians are ever going to break free from Putin, it will be from an organic rising from within Russia, supported by the Russian people…and not some Western backed Instagram sensation, that would be like you backing a politician in NZ that you knew was backed by Xi Jinping and funded by the MSS.
         https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/

         The funny thing is I never (or if so, rarely) saw any of you 'lefties' utter a murmur when an actual Left wing leader, Lula was outrageously imprisoned by an outright right wing authoritarian..in fact now I think about it, I don’t believe I have ever (or very rarely if so) seen any of you so called lefties show even the slightest sign of support for any actual Left Wing project around the world, or voice your concern when they are regularly threatened….

         It really has become quite apparent to me over the previous few days, that you, Mcflock, Joe90, Al1en and a couple of others on TS are in fact, in your geopolitical beliefs (the ones you express on TS anyway) for want of a better description, are some sort of postmodern (liberal) imperialists. It was always obvious that you guys had some pretty seriously flawed world views, but when I saw recently, exactly how closely nearly all your geopolitical standpoints matched with the UK Conservative parties own positions…I guess the penny dropped…holy crap…I mean did you even realize yourself how far right you had drifted?
         • Stuart Munro 9.1.2.1.1

           4 April 2021 at 12:26 pm

           Quite – it's all our fault that Putin poisons people.

           Look what we made him do.
10. RP Mcmurphy 10

    3 April 2021 at 3:27 pm

    easter holiday.

    3 day ban from fb

    hehehe

    offended someone by telling them to shut up and that they were a male chauvinist pig.

    snapchat that!

    happy easter
11. RP Mcmurphy 11

    3 April 2021 at 3:32 pm

    in the meantime I am committing the music to red haired boy to memory. at slow speed it is like this scottish lament but brightens up when played fast. stroke of luck I have this country instrumental compilation by NASHVILLE session pickers with this tune and old joe clark on it. nifty stuff. And the music by Steve Carr on bluegrassguitar.com and dude you are swinging . yee hahhh
    • David 11.1

      3 April 2021 at 8:02 pm

      Apt analogy for today’s discussion topics.
      https://youtu.be/P4NT1UUCZV4
12. Eco Maori 12

    4 April 2021 at 8:50 am
    • Adrian Thornton 12.1

      4 April 2021 at 10:47 am

      @ Eco Maori , thanks for that. I really love that Folkways stuff, have been collecting it for many years.,,haven't got that one though, strangely I haven't even seen it in NZ, and I have been a record collector since I was a young man….just found one on Ebay, going to fill that hole in my collection.

      Great record too, listening to it now on youtube..thanks again.

      Here is a good interview on the history of Folkways that might interest you…

      'Worlds Of Sound' A Tribute To Folkways

      "Sixty years ago, Moses Asch set out with the lofty ambition to record "all the sound of the world." He established Folkways Records — "the little label that could" — and in the decades that followed, Folkways recorded everything from folk singers, to jazz greats, to sounds of the natural world."

      https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96820123

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