Open mike 03/06/2021

86 comments on “Open mike 03/06/2021 ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Patricia Bremner 1

   3 June 2021 at 6:31 am

   Cricket tragics and I am one, will be delighted about NZs current performance at Lords.
   • Jester 1.1

     3 June 2021 at 6:43 am

     Yes especially Devon Conway

     Black Caps v England: Devon Conway produces magical debut century at Lord's | Stuff.co.nz
   • gsays 1.2

     3 June 2021 at 7:20 am

     Early days I know, win this test and maybe the UK press will stop asking questions about the ODI final.

     Stolen as it was.
     • ghostwhowalksnz 1.2.1

       3 June 2021 at 1:19 pm

       The UK press are referring to him as 'from South Africa'
       • alwyn 1.2.1.1

         3 June 2021 at 2:28 pm

         I'm sure that when they ever mention Ben Stokes they always refer to him as "New Zealand player Ben Stokes".

         I mean surely they would? Wouldn't they?
       • gsays 1.2.1.2

         3 June 2021 at 2:29 pm

         No surprises there.

         While not untrue, I wonder if they did the same about Kelvin Peterson. Before he fell out with his team mates of course.
   • millsy 1.3

     3 June 2021 at 9:29 am

     Nice to see we found some batsmen that actually do what they are supposed to do, and actually score more than 30.
2. Andre 2

   3 June 2021 at 8:08 am

   Here's just one illustration of how we in New Zealand are shameful laggards in de-fossilising our transport: Norway new vehicle sales are around 60% pure battery, and another 20% plug-in hybrid. In the overall fleet, pure battery and plug-in hybrids are up to about 20%. Dino-juice is well on its way out, in Norway.

   https://cleantechnica.com/2021/06/02/norways-plugin-ev-transition-continues-83-3-share-in-may-with-ford-mustang-mach-e-overall-bestseller/

   We really need to sort out issues such as the scheduled application of road user charges to electric vehicles at the end of this year. Applying RUC of nearly 8 cents/km to electric vehicles would remove any fuel cost savings from going electric. I recently took on a project that's turned into fairly regular part-time employment, which is a 100km round-trip for me.

   So instead of using my dear old Landie, I went looking for something a bit … more environmentally and fiscally and socially aware. (No, public transport is nowhere even remotely close to viable for this commute). I could just barely make the range of a second generation Leaf work, if I plugged in to charge at work. But I ended up getting a Honda Fit hybrid, and the petrol cost is less than just the RUC costs alone would be on a Leaf if they end up imposed on schedule, without even considering the charging cost.

   In terms of new electric vehicles, there's a lot more choice coming at us really fast. At the moment, the lowest price new EV in NZ is the MG ZS ev, at just under $50k. But BYD are saying they are planning to sell their EA1 in Oz for under 35k dingodollars, so probably around the $40 mark here.

   (To forestall the inevitable complaints about scarce resources, the EA1 uses LFP batteries, ie nickel and cobalt free. Now if only they could change to rare-earth free motors such as the induction motors Tesla and Audi use on some of their products, or other designs such as the Mahle magnet-free wound-rotor wound-stator design)
   • weka 2.1

     3 June 2021 at 9:10 am

     Is 8c the intended or current RUC? Who came up with that?
   • weka 2.2

     3 June 2021 at 9:10 am

     Is Norway paying for its transition by selling oil?
   • Ad 2.3

     3 June 2021 at 9:32 am

     Did you consider a reliable sedan hybrid like a Toyota Camry?

     We're all going to have to make the same choices you made, so it's useful to see your choice criteria.

     Plenty of couples get into spreadsheets for it. Eyeroll.
     • Andre 2.3.1

       3 June 2021 at 10:03 am

       Camrys are much bigger than I like for daily use. I've still got the Landie for the big jobs, few as they may be.

       I was a bit wary of potential reliability with the Fit, but everything I found online indicated the only real issues were with control software in the earliest models, which were quickly sorted with a software update.

       I came close to going for a Prius plug-in, but the extra size and budget stretch needed, and that the pure-electric range would only cover about 1/4 of my km and the open road economy wasn't as good as the Fit, combined to tip it to the Fit. Besides, Prius. But if the pure-electric range covered my daily needs, then I would probably have gone for the Prius PHV, Prius image issues and size notwithstanding.

       But jeez, I didn't think driving on pure electric would be as nice as it is. Wafting along at 50kmh or 90kmh with zero engine noise or vibration – it's bliss. It's super disappointing it only lasts a km or two on the flat before the engine has to fire up again. If that BYD EA1 actually does land here under $40k, I might end up breaking a lifetime habit of buying cheap cars and driving them til they're dead ten-ish years later, and spring for one.
       • RedBaronCV 2.3.1.1

         3 June 2021 at 5:53 pm

         Toyota Yaris 1.6 hybrid car or suv. Under $30k does 2.3litres to 100k ( that's about a third of the normal petrol usage – doesn't need to be plugged in. But I think they might be difficult to get hold of.
         • Pat 2.3.1.1.1

           3 June 2021 at 6:16 pm

           "There’s an EV mode but don’t get too excited. The owner’s manual suggests there’s a maximum electric-only range of only 1km (yep, a single, miserable kilometre…) and that it could be as little as a few hundred metres."

           https://evcentral.com.au/2020-toyota-yaris-hybrid-review/
           • RedBaronCV 2.3.1.1.1.1

             3 June 2021 at 9:56 pm

             I have a larger toyota hybrid that uses about 60% of petrol a non hybrid uses and that's better than their literature suggests. I struggled to make sense of the article?? Toyota suggest the yaris uses about 1/3 of the petrol equivalent so that shouldn't be too far out? I'm not clear about why the article talks about only going 1km – seems kinda irrelevant. Otherwise it's up to the next in the range the Corolla.

             Hybrids seem to be quite a good intermediate stage especially for people at the far end of the current battery distance ranges.
   • AB 2.4

     3 June 2021 at 10:13 am

     It's a middle class dilemma. I don't know what the average spend is on a car in NZ – from a quick look I can't find it. But I'd wager it's well under $20k and may be under $15K, The used hybrids and EVs at this price range are fairly old and and have issues (real or imagined) with range and/or battery life. Buyers who can't afford to make a bad economic decision are leery of them. You might, as Ad suggested, find a reliable used Camry hybrid or similar in this price range that you are prepared to take a punt on in terms of battery life. It will be years though before used Kia and Hyundai hybrids and the like turn up at this price, and the same issues will apply.

     But even the middle class is being rorted – the price of new hybrids and EVs has been cynically jacked up sky-high. So that they make no economic sense for the buyer because the fuel savings don't cover the higher purchase price. And sitting in the background is inflated housing prices and the huge mortgages that have to be serviced – how long before this sucks middle class discretionary spending out of other sectors, or are people just expected to pile up more personal debt to save the planet with a flash EV?
     • Andre 2.4.1

       3 June 2021 at 10:23 am

       I significantly stretched my usual budget and spent $10.5k on a 2014 model with 92500 km. I found precisely zero online chatter about battery degradation on Honda hybrids, unlike the plethora of online chatter about degradation in Prius Ni-MH batteries and Leaf batteries.

       Even if the battery does degrade significantly, it's only going to have a tiny effect on fuel economy. It will still eliminate all the fuel waste sitting at lights, most of the fuel waste in stop-start traffic. It still has the Atkinson cycle engine, and the electric motor will still cover for the lowish torque at low to medium engine speeds characteristic of Atkinson cycle engines. It just won't be able to store quite as much from regenerative braking and going down hills, but that's only a small part of how it enables better economy.
       • greywarshark 2.4.1.1

         3 June 2021 at 12:05 pm

         Interesting facts Andre – every bit of info about EVs is new to me and I hope I will gradually get informed. Though can't afford one and am attached to old 1989 Toyota which I have insured for about $1000, third party.
         • McFlock 2.4.1.1.1

           3 June 2021 at 2:09 pm

           It's a new language, eh.
           I'm hoping when the time comes to replace my current suzuki 50cc, there will be some suzuki electric equivalents in a similar price range – currently the electrics I have searched online have been about twice the price. But I long for the day I can tootle around town without the engine noise, lol
           • greywarshark 2.4.1.1.1.1

             3 June 2021 at 8:42 pm

             Lack of engine noise will mean pedestrians having to be specially careful. Get forgetful and the car wil be onyou before you think to look, having not heard.
             • McFlock …

               3 June 2021 at 9:41 pm

               There are moped riders who think they are invulnerable. They'd be a hazard, like cyclists.

               But then they have a spill, and realise we're about the squishiest people around. Besides, at least we have reggo plates.
             • RedBaronCV …

               3 June 2021 at 9:58 pm

               Mine is quiet but you do get used to looking for people who haven't heard. Much like the overseas tourists that used to be around Wellington looking the wrong way around before they step out.
             • mac1 …

               3 June 2021 at 10:24 pm

               I drive a black Leaf. My friends call it the Black Ninja, the way it sneaks up on people at the curb. One is therefore careful lest the paintwork be blemished. Later Leafs I believe make noises to alert pedestrians of their presence. I have toyed with the idea of recording my son-in-law's Harley and piping that through external speakers mounted in a pipe where the exhaust would be……
       • ghostwhowalksnz 2.4.1.2

         3 June 2021 at 1:17 pm

         I have heard that some common hybrids can have the battery unit checked and as its made up of a number of cells they can find the cells that are worst of and only replace them

         This is what the Prius looks like and others will be similar

         
         • McFlock 2.4.1.2.1

           3 June 2021 at 2:13 pm

           I was wondering why they didn't do that. For some, a new battery costs as much as a new car. A cell servicing every 20,000km would be an affordable alternative.
         • Ad 2.4.1.2.2

           3 June 2021 at 2:56 pm

           Think I'll wait for Toyotas solid state battery versions.
         • Andre 2.4.1.2.3

           3 June 2021 at 3:57 pm

           Plenty of companies do that. Easily found just by searching a phrase such as nz hybrid battery replacement.

           Here's just the first one that popped up: https://hybridcore.co.nz/hybridcore-shop/
         • Tricledrownk 2.4.1.2.4

           3 June 2021 at 7:30 pm

           I've looked into replacing cells they have to be the same age you can't just put new cells in.you can buy reconditioned complete packs for about a third of the new price.

           They are fairly easy to change out the complete pack but the dealer's charge $1200 plus for an hrs work and will only put in new batteries.
           • weka 2.4.1.2.4.1

             3 June 2021 at 7:44 pm

             Tricledown, you've been repeatedly making a typo in your username, which means that a moderator has to do some work for your comment to appear.

             You're now in premod, which means your comments won't appear at all until I've seen you acknowledge this mod note and agree to take more care.
           • weka 2.4.1.2.4.2

             6 June 2021 at 12:04 am

             Sorry Weka but in the box where my name appears it keeps reverting to tricledrownk no matter how many times I correct it.any suggestions on how I can correct this.i clear the box restore even the auto name feature comes up as Tricledrown then it reverts back to Tricledrownk.

             Let's see if we can sort this out. What device are you using and what browser?

             Can you please clarify if you can manually edit your name each time (and the problem is that it won't 'stick')? I'm seeing comments from you in the past week as Tricledrownk and Tricledrown. Why is that?
       • Macro 2.4.1.3

         3 June 2021 at 5:06 pm

         There is a lot of online chatter about hybrid battery degradation – most of it is simply ignorant. If they were so bad would you see so many taxis in Auckland that are hybrid? There are heaps of Prius, Aqua, and Corolla etc. around now. I have had a hybrid (2005 Prius) for 8 years now (1st NZ owner with 37k on the clock – now 150k). It has been the most reliable car I have ever owned and the only battery replacement has been the auxiliary which was 15 years old. Still returns 4.5 l /100km as it did when first bought. Basically halved my emission profile. Now looking to upgrade to something even more efficient.

         Again there is virtually no public transport around here and we have to travel regularly at least 150k (300k return) way beyond the range of a Leaf. Friend had one for a while but was lucky enough to upgrade to a Tesla. I have to admit I had some difficulty with the 10th commandment* on first sight.

         * Thou shalt not covert thy neighbours donkey.
         • Andre 2.4.1.3.1

           3 June 2021 at 5:21 pm

           Yep, it is rare for a Prius battery to crap out. Most of the articles that went into actual detail showed the car was doing Star Trek mileages, and/or extreme temperatures.

           But still, I took the complete absence of complaints about Fit batteries to be a good sign, when compared to the cornucopia of complaints about such rare problems that occurred in the Prius batteries.
       • Foreign Waka 2.4.1.4

         4 June 2021 at 7:20 am

         Andre – I don't want to down the argument for EV but there are 2 glaring issues:

         1/ what is NZ going to do with some 2.5 million cars that actually cannot be converted but became instant trash

         2/ Batteries, the amount of raw material -Lithium, nickel and cobalt are the key metals used to make those batteries – is being mined in poor countries the activity is devastating on the environment. The issue of disposal is not solved. Funny how this is being advertised as a environmentally better solution. This is ruining the environment in larger proportions and faster. But of cause its not at our doorstep.

         https://www.automotiveworld.com/articles/risky-business-the-hidden-costs-of-ev-battery-raw-materials/

         My take is nothing really has changed, the emperor has new clothes and we now poison the soil until we cant grow food anymore. The drive to self destruction has not been broken at all. The run for profits is selling the average punter that buying an extraordinary expensive car is so much better. But really it isn't.
         • Andre 2.4.1.4.1

           4 June 2021 at 4:36 pm

           The 2.5 million existing ICE vehicles will end the same way as all almost all the other vehicles disposed of up til now. They will be crushed and/or shredded, and sent off to be recycling.

           Battery recycling is entirely feasible, and is starting to become an actual thing now that significant quantities of end-of-life batteries are becoming available. Here's just one effort: https://insideevs.com/features/441524/tesla-jb-straubel-future-battery-recycling/ There's plenty more going on, you just need to make a very minimal effort to educate yourself.

           If you had actually fully read my original post, you might have come to the last paragraph where I specifically addressed the cobalt and nickel issues. A lot of the new EVs use battery chemistries that don't use cobalt or nickel. The most popular alternative is lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP), as used in BYD vcars and trucks and buses and dome of Tesla's made in China models.. These weren't preferred a few years ago because of lower energy density, but with improvements in battery technology they are now better than the best cobalt and nickel batteries were just a few years ago. As well as being much longer lasting.
     • weka 2.4.2

       3 June 2021 at 11:09 am

       Middle class dilemma now, everyone's dilemma eventually if we want to let catastrophic climate change happen. Someone has to step up and effect change. Or not I guess, and we let everything burn to the ground. Are we going to take this seriously or not?

       (It will be a long time before I can afford an EV, I'm relying on the middle classes to bring the price down).
       • Sabine 2.4.2.1

         3 June 2021 at 12:04 pm

         (It will be a long time before I can afford an EV, I'm relying on the middle classes to bring the price down).

         i guess that will be the problem if the middle class has got no money to spend on an overpriced EV. In my circle of people i know absolutly no one who owns a car that has cost more then 5 grand, if people do own a new car its Lease plan via work.

         That is what i hope is that the people who drive gasguzzlers now for work in work vehicle will get the EVs first, and that that hopefully brings the price down for all. If it does not, which also would not surprise me those that are not in a rich enough class to afford one of these vehicles will have to content with a. walk (for those that can), b. cycle (for those that can), c. public transport (where it exists) and the rest is shit outta luck.
         • weka 2.4.2.1.1

           3 June 2021 at 12:21 pm

           10,000 new car sales in May.

           Compared to 11,200 used import sales. (Edit).
           https://www.interest.co.nz/news/110693/passenger-car-sales-posted-their-own-set-new-records-may-buyers-choosing-larger-and

           I suspect the issue isn’t going to be ev affordability but lack of other solutions. PT, cycle infrastructure, relocalising services and work, train network, and so on.
           • Sabine 2.4.2.1.1.1

             3 June 2021 at 4:43 pm

             I guess it will be both. A large number of cars in NZ are business cars, i expect these to be EV when that becomes mandatory. Then there are those that already have them or will upgrade and can either afford it outright, or slap the car on the mortgage.

             how the lower income to poor people are to afford these vehicles i have no idea.

             I know a few people that are scared of this day for exactly this reason. But i expect the government to give tax incentives to those that can afford these cars to reaise 'interest' and 'uptake' and then for those that can't afford it, sucks to be them.
             • weka …

               3 June 2021 at 6:00 pm

               We will end up affording them same as we do with ice cars now, second hand resale and imports.

               But I don’t think we can see how it will work because it hasn’t happened before and we will have to transition off the kind of car use and reliance we have now into a different kind of society. Not many people with good vision on that, relatively. Yet.
               • Sabine …

                 3 June 2021 at 6:18 pm

                 It will be interesting to watch, that is for sure.
               • In Vino …

                 3 June 2021 at 7:34 pm

                 I am staggered that over 20,000 extra cars were put on our roads in May alone. Weka's link is all gung-ho about sales, but gives no figure for the number of old cars taken off the road.

                 I doubt if that number would get to 10,000. Can anyone reassure me?

                 If we are constantly putting far more cars onto the roads than we are taking off, the matter of how many are hybrid is irrelevant. We will always be worsening our carbon footprint.

                 And gridlock will spread everywhere. Not even national's big road-building programmes will prevent gridlock everywhere.

                 Nobody seems to be doing any planning or intervention on how many vehicles are being put onto our roads each year compared to how many are taken off .

                 Sheer stupidity, unless I am wrong in assuming that fewer vehicles are being taken off.

                 But I bet I am right!
                 • weka …

                   3 June 2021 at 7:37 pm

                   for comparison

                   https://www.transport.govt.nz/statistics-and-insights/fleet-statistics/sheet/vehicle-fleet
                   • In Vino …

                     3 June 2021 at 10:06 pm

                     As far as I can tell, all those graphs show increasing numbers of vehicles, with no indication of whether we are taking any vehicles off the road at all.

                     Changing to more fuel-efficient vehicles does not help our carbon footprint if we are constantly putting more vehicles onto our roads than we are taking off.

                     I feel more cynical than ever.
                   • McFlock …

                     3 June 2021 at 10:42 pm

                     Not sure it's cynicism, as such.

                     There is information about new registrations in LTSA data, as well as some downloadable datasets.

                     If you're just guesstimating, then basically you can look at the charts with new and renewed registrations, particularly light passenger vehicles. The line (total vehicles) is going up, but if the "existing" point for 2015 is lower than the "new plus existing" in 2014, then some cars have gone off the road.

                     EVs are spiking, but as a proportion of the fleet larger engined "light passenger vehicles" have also increased regularly over 40 years. I'm thinking SUVs.

                     But EV tech seems to be maturing quickly, and buses are increasing in number quickest of all, so, it's not all bleak. But it is complex, and easy to focus on the wood instead of all the trees.
                   • In Vino …

                     3 June 2021 at 10:59 pm

                     I thought the saying was that one could not see the wood for the trees..

                     We need as least as many cars coming off the road as we are putting on to just start breaking even and making progress with EVs.

                     It seems we have no real indication of how many cars are coming off our roads.. and I suspect that if we did, we would cringe.

                     To interrupt the flow of cheap imported cars would provoke the ire of the entire right-wing pro-market economy sector.

                     Is this why it is so hard to find figures for just how many cars are coming off our roads?
                   • McFlock …

                     3 June 2021 at 11:31 pm

                     It's difficult to find because it's a particularly niche piece of data, and there are many twigs to examine, and sometimes one needs to be familiar with data collections and the mindset of data collators to know how to search for a particular twig.

                     Most things are available, it's just a case of figuring out who has it and where to find it and how to get it. Organisations literally have people highly trained at doing exactly that. And nosy fellows like me watching them do it.

                     If you go to Weka's link, select "2019 annual fleet statstics", and "view sections", you can download a pdf report and an xlsx workbook. I believe you're after sheet 5.1 in the workbook.

                     BUT

                     the report is more helpful. There are more cars with bigger engines, but per capita travel in those vehicles is lower and the CO2 emissions of those vehicles is also lower than older vehicles.

                     And buses are increasing in number.

                     Good stuff to go to bed on, looks like lol
     • Bearded Git 2.4.3

       3 June 2021 at 5:09 pm

       I bought a 4-door 1.2 litre Suzuki Swift new for $20k 3 years ago. It runs on the smell of an oily rag and compares well in terms of emissions with somewhat larger EV's. Suzuki now make a hybrid Swift which I think is $26k new and has even lower emissions.
   • Foreign Waka 2.5

     3 June 2021 at 1:51 pm

     Hi Andre, it is laudable that car manufactures offer EV's.

     I have some questions though.

     Lets say we have some

     As at 31 May 2021
     As at 31 May 2021 Vehicle TypeTotal5,493,773AGRICULTURAL MACHINE2,849ATV8,109BUS32,796GOODS VAN/TRUCK/UTILITY806,577HIGH SPEED AGRICULTURAL VEHICLE144MOBILE MACHINE23,500MOPED31,618MOTOR CARAVAN48,229MOTORCYCLE167,758PASSENGER CAR/VAN3,505,856SPECIAL PURPOSE VEHICLE3,315TRACTOR45,923TRAILER NOT DESIGNED FOR H/WAY USE980TRAILER/CARAVAN816,119
     • Andre 2.5.1

       3 June 2021 at 4:05 pm

       If the point you're trying to make is that there are lots of other kinds of vehicles that are also fossil-fueled, all I can suggest is pick whatever class of vehicle you're interested, and search for electric [whatever kind of vehicle you're interested in].

       Here's just my first hit for electric tractor: https://www.futurefarming.com/Machinery/Articles/2020/3/John-Deere-We-believe-in-electric-tractors-100-552869E/.

       Or electric rubbish truck: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/emack-lr-electric-garbage-truck/
3. Incognito 3

   3 June 2021 at 8:18 am

   It is impossible to follow the money.

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pete-mckenzie-politics-rife-with-dark-money

   Come on ACT and/or the Green Party! Time to do some virtue signalling and expose this to loads of sunlight and oxygen. Or do you have something to hide as well …?
4. Adrian Thornton 4

   3 June 2021 at 9:03 am

   Here is one for tour local Imperialist Liberals, you know who you are….

   Two Centuries Of ‘The Imperialist, Warmongering, Hate-Filled Guardian’

   https://www.medialens.org/2021/two-centuries-of-the-imperialist-warmongering-hate-filled-guardian/

   …Guard Dogs of the Liberal status quo, always have been and still are.
   • weka 4.1

     3 June 2021 at 9:14 am

     Not sure we have many Liberals in NZ
     • gsays 4.1.1

       3 June 2021 at 10:20 am

       Wave a stick round these parts and you'll hit half a dozen of them.
       • weka 4.1.1.1

         3 June 2021 at 11:05 am

         Capital L Liberal isn't really a thing in NZ.
         • gsays 4.1.1.1.1

           3 June 2021 at 12:19 pm

           My understanding of l(L)iberal was those that saw Corbyn as an anti-semite, Assange as treacherous, keepers of the status quo. Kinda like conservatives on the left side of politics.
           • weka 4.1.1.1.1.1

             3 June 2021 at 12:29 pm

             Small el liberal in NZ historically has meant socially liberal people who vote on the left.

             Large el L liberal is a political position and theory that most people here aren’t even aware of. Adrian and others use it as a pejorative and label designed to corral. I don’t find it particularly helpful because it’s often inaccurately applied.

             the people you refer to are what I would call centre lefties.

             liberal also has a more modern meaning, basically socially liberal but comfortable with neoliberal economics so long as progress can be made. Eg the term liberal feminism is used to mean feminists who want equal pay but don’t act to end the patriarchy.
             • gsays …

               3 June 2021 at 12:41 pm

               Thanks weka. Yr last paragraph resonates, there is a ' blow the bridge, I'm over' or 'I'm alright, Jack' attitude to them.
             • Adrian Thornton …

               3 June 2021 at 1:17 pm

               "the people you refer to are what I would call centre lefties" …aahhh No, the people referred to as 'Liberals' are Centrists, which is it's own quite defined and distinct ideology.

               And we know this because as we have seen with our own eyes, the way the Third Way Centrists in the UK and the establishment Centrist Dems defended their ideology against the actual Progressive Left as aggressively as any political ideologue we have seen in action recently in western politics.

               These Free market Liberal Imperialists and their media arm are a more immediate threat and major obstacle at present to any Progressive Left project taking root anywhere in the West than the Right IMO, thereby making them a serious threat to the survival of our planet.
           • McFlock 4.1.1.1.1.2

             3 June 2021 at 2:20 pm

             Not sure how many leftish people thought assange was "treacherous". Or even Corbyn as personally being anti-Semitic (although the party as a whole seemed to have a problem that was never addressed).

             meh.

             Why does the left have so many labels?
             So people on the left know who to hate.
             • gsays …

               3 June 2021 at 2:33 pm

               You are right about the hate.

               During the height of Assange's turmoil there was a lot of hate directed at him round these parts.

               The 'left' saves it's worse for it's own. Often stemming from a kinda purity Olympics.
               • McFlock …

                 3 June 2021 at 3:18 pm

                 Well, I for one don't think I ever accused Assange of being "treacherous".

                 I would have liked him to have faced trial for his alleged sexual assaults, though. I guess for the true left that's "po-tay-to po-tah-to" though.
5. Jenny How to get there 5

   3 June 2021 at 9:36 am

   They say every cloud has a silver lining.

   Could this be a good news story?

   From sunny Northland:

   Marsden Point workers brace for major job losses

   ……work was still being done to figure out next steps and chief executive Naomi James said they were in talks with central government about ways to create jobs, or repurpose the site.

   "That could be anything from imports of other products, green energy and fuel opportunities through to the solar farm….."

   Marsden Point workers brace for major job losses (msn.com)

   Bring it on, I say.
   • Ad 5.1

     3 June 2021 at 3:00 pm

     That's over 100 of Northlands last $100k salaries up and gone.

     So it's reasonable to deduce in your glee you're a pitiless shit happy to see such social damage.
     • Jenny how to get there 5.1.1

       3 June 2021 at 3:35 pm

       That's not very charitable of you Ad.

       I'm not a pitiless shit happy to see such social damage, I am hopeful that these highly skilled workers may find a place at the proposed solar farm.

       This is my hope.

       That the transition from a fossil fuel economy is done in a just way.

       This transition must happen.

       Or don't you accept the need for us to move away from fossil fuels?

       We should be making the most of this opportunity to make the solar farm a reality.

       I share my pity with the Mayor of Dunedin for those affected by the Southland floods, and, the even much greater social damage caused if we don't embrace a just transition.

       https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-06-2021/#comment-1796034

       Instead of being dependent on imported fossil fuels, the North could be our solar energy capital.

       Wouldn't you like to see that?
     • weka 5.1.2

       3 June 2021 at 4:20 pm

       I took it that way at first too, but if you ignore the headline Jenny’s comment makes more sense and less callously. She’s cheering green jobs.
   • weston 5.2

     3 June 2021 at 6:32 pm

     While we have our own refinery we could potentially refine our own crude which i think atm is exported take that ability away and we are totally dependent on a foreign country for our fuel , not good in my view for a people who still have some way to go before we can transition to other fuels and noone knows whats arround the corner etc .Neither would there be much in the way of jobs in a solar farm once its up an running you could prob run the whole shebang with a couple of technicians an a couple of robots to keep the panels clean .
6. Chris 6

   3 June 2021 at 10:10 am

   Didn't Fletcher's pride itself on being a social responsible corporate?

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/300323481/mainfreight-and-fletcher-building-two-very-different-wage-subsidy-stories
   • tc 6.1

     3 June 2021 at 3:31 pm

     Responsible to shareholders not wider society.

     Fletchers thanks the NZ and Oz govt for their generosity…..yeah right.
7. gsays 7

   3 June 2021 at 10:41 am

   Who amongst us covered themselves in glory at 19 yrs old?

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/125330762/england-rookie-ollie-robinsons-sexist-and-racists-tweets-return-to-haunt-him-at-lords

   His apology seems fulsome and sincere. I question the motives of the retweeter.
   • I Feel Love 7.1

     3 June 2021 at 1:16 pm

     I've not read this but yes, I'm thankful social media wasn't a thing in my teens, or 20s for that matter, I didn't mature until well into my 30s.
   • McFlock 7.2

     3 June 2021 at 2:31 pm

     zouch. Walks on the field at a high point, walks off to find all that's come back.

     Almost as bad as that woman who tweeted about AIDS in Africa before getting onto a 12 hour flight there, and getting off the flight to find out she'd been fired (she was back with the company within a few years, so not exactly a career-ender then, either).

     Still, as long as he hasn't been turning up to EDL rallies or David Irving book signings recently, he should be ok. Most people know that depressed teens say stupid shit sometimes.
     • gsays 7.2.1

       3 June 2021 at 2:39 pm

       I suppose the most important bit is if he can forgive himself.

       Brutal irony. At the start of the test, where you may expect National Anthems there was a wee monologue about inclusivity.
       • McFlock 7.2.1.1

         3 June 2021 at 7:24 pm

         Probably why his posts surfaced while he was on the field.

         Memorable comments are going to be remembered by someone.
     • greywarshark 7.2.2

       3 June 2021 at 7:02 pm

       But there seems at the same time to be a youth worship – the young green Councillor will come up with some amazing magic and practical answer to all convoluted problems that will enable the Great Forward Leap into a Better Future.
8. Adrian 8

   3 June 2021 at 11:45 am

   Who has found the Covid vaccine booking 0800 number, I have searched for ages and followed every direction to my DHB and still no number. Somebody really does need a kick up the arse for anything complicated in doing this.
   • greywarshark 8.1

     3 June 2021 at 11:58 am

     The MoH number on my Nelson card was – Healthline 0800 358 5453. Hope that works.
     • greywarshark 8.1.1

       3 June 2021 at 7:05 pm

       You can always contact your GP to get the latest information. If you haven't one then I think you should look for a group practice where appropriate for you. They do try to help you with your health problems if they run good management.
   • ghostwhowalksnz 8.2

     3 June 2021 at 1:11 pm

     When you get the email saying its time the login link to book is in the email

     The 0800 number AUCKLAND is 0800 2VAX COVID (282926)
     Other areas are slightly changed number
   • RedBaronCV 8.3

     3 June 2021 at 6:10 pm

     There's a link on the MOH covid website to the various DHb's and what they are doing. What I don't get is why they are making such a meal out of it.

     I'm Capital & Coast and they are wasting money sending out invitations etc. The Flu shot doesn't have a lot of admin for the person being stabbed so why don't they use a similar system.

     Just print up a bar coded form with a few rip off bits similar to an electoral voting form – you go in on your allocated day with address/age proof -fill out background information – give them bit one get stabbed and scanned then give them bit two to scan when you go in for the second shot. Immuno/other groups get the form from their Doctor.

     Just allocate days to go by initial letter of surname or something similar.

     Then at the end just check up on the numbers where there is only one scan. It's an exercise in getting shots into arms not in trying to collect and store ready to be hacked the personal details of everyone – which seems to be a health department obsession.
9. greywarshark 9

   3 June 2021 at 11:53 am

   100 years since WW1 and big spending on updating our Memorial to that War. In Key's time. Easier to direct people's attention to those memories of the past which have a hold on people's consciousness. But there was WW2 so much closer that took my birth father who served bravely, and the Vietnam War and the Afghanistan war – and …? Enough to think about and should be top and front in our minds. But no, sort of slid under the carpet. And that is a discomforting place to be.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/443953/maori-war-veteran-s-skin-still-peeling-50-years-after-agent-orange-exposure

   Turoa Karatea frequently scratches himself until he bleeds, but time is running out for him to get compensation for a condition he says was caused by Agent Orange. Will a Waitangi Tribunal inquiry finally deliver for Karatea and other Vietnam veterans before the last of the veterans die?
10. Adrian 10

    3 June 2021 at 11:58 am

    Ahh, my sister has phoned it through to me but she only got it because her husbands mate passed it on to them. It all seems very clandestine, very secret squirrel stuff.

    Anyway it is 080026 88 22, pass it own but carefully like Richie Mounga organising his backline. And just another moan, if this is one of the most important numbers in NZ history why isn’t it a simple one like any company with a competent info department manages to get. I think I can see why the Government is giving health a bloody good kicking.
11. greywarshark 11

    3 June 2021 at 12:37 pm

    Lives lost, scarred people, lost revenue to the area because of lack of objective informed direction from government agencies and lost mana for the people there and all NZ.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443934/whakaari-white-island-confusion-over-safety-responsibilities-at-senior-level
    A super-heated, highly-acidic eruption tore across the crater without warning.
    Ash concealed huge landmarks – helicopter landing pads, an old sulphur factory and a shipping container.

    Eight adventurers died on the submarine volcano.
    Another 16 would later succumb to horrific burns, inhalation and blast injuries.
    And 25 survivors were left with lifelong physical and mental recoveries from the explosion.

    Despite tourist companies leading visitors onto New Zealand's most active volcano for decades, some stakeholders' health and safety obligations were unclear.

    RNZ can now reveal the confusion went right to the top.

    Small government good, effective government bad – say the neoliberalists! Just like the pig farm idea introduced by Roger Douglas. (Can he be deknighted now we feel benighted)? Animal Farm was run by pigs who promised and made rules that they gradually altered till what the animals got was the opposite of what they had been told.
12. greywarshark 12

    3 June 2021 at 12:43 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/443905/israel-reports-pfizer-vaccine-probable-link-to-heart-inflammation

    Israel's Health Ministry says a small number of heart inflammation cases observed mainly in young men who received Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine in Israel were likely linked to their vaccination.

    This was perhaps exacerbated by the stresses that so many young Israeli men are experiencing as they battle the horrific, blood-thirsty Palestinians that threaten Israel. /sarc
13. greywarshark 13

    3 June 2021 at 12:54 pm

    Water, water everywhere and not a drop for drinking, buy it by the thimbleful as you can afford it.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443956/mayors-split-over-key-water-reforms
    Completed by the Water Industry Commission for Scotland, it ramped up the estimated cost of how much work needs doing to upgrade the country's water systems.

    But an analysis by Deloitte also showed such an investment would reap economic rewards, with a growth in GDP of up to $23b, and thousands of jobs created.

    One of the most important pieces of data, however, was a projection on how the investment would impact ratepayers – and likely what councils will be concerned about the most…

    By foregoing the reforms, it showed the cost burden on ratepayers would be extremely lopsided. Some could end up paying nearly $14,000 a year in their water bill, while others would pay just $1,900.
    But if reforms did go ahead, and if two to four entities were created to oversee the water network, the bill would instead be a lot more evenly split amongst ratepayers.
    The highest average bill would end up being just $1,600 while the lowest average would be around $800.

    My present bill is I think no more than $200 pa. And what does the master grinder Deloitte consider our water would be profitable for? And are we still virtually giving it away to overseas exploiters?
    • ghostwhowalksnz 13.1

      3 June 2021 at 1:07 pm

      In a lot of urban areas the "water" bill is mostly for sewage disposal. Watercare in Auckland does a pro rata from the water meter volume (78.5% homes and 95% for apartments) to have a volume for the waste disposal network. The waste disposal cost is 1.75 X that of water per 1000L plus a fixed yearly charge

      The pure water supply is around 25% of account ( inc GST)
14. greywarshark 14

    3 June 2021 at 7:46 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/443989/us-to-pacific-leaders-be-wary-of-funds-with-strings-attached
    Antony Blinken told a virtual summit of leaders and delegates from 11 Pacific countries that economic coercion across the region was on the rise.
    While making no specific mention of China, he also spoke of threats to order in the region.

    "The United States is all for more development and investments in the Islands, but that investment should adhere to international standards for environmentally and socially sustainable development, and should be pursued transparently, with public consultation.

    How would nuclear bombing part of the Marshall Islands repeatedly by the USA fit in with that worthy-sounding set of guidelines and principles?

    The purpose of Operation Crossroads was to investigate the effect of nuclear weapons on naval warships. Testing in the islands began at Bikini Atoll with the Shot Able test, on July 1, 1946. … These were also the first U.S. nuclear detonations since the “Little Boy” and “Fat Man” bombs dropped over Japan. https://www.atomicheritage.org/location/marshall-islands

    Tom Lehrer was writing about the nuclear bomb tensions back in the 1960s – oh we have come a long and reasoned way since then! Remember this is satire about the serious backdrop to all the flimflam that we hear from our 'betters' amongst our good leaders looking to advance Humanity and Peace.

    Who's Next (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdtAFIl2jhc

    So Long Mom (a song for WW111) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pklr0UD9eSo

    We will all go together When We Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS