Open mike 03/09/2019

105 comments on “Open mike 03/09/2019 ”

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1. Robert Guyton 1

   3 September 2019 at 7:12 am

   Farmers need to be transparent; mud, dead calves and all

   (an interesting take on farming stories)

   "People get upset when they think someone is hiding something. People feel the dairy industry hides behind a big public relations machine. They feel their communication is inauthentic.

   So they distrust the official good news stories coming from the competent people in the farmer groups.

   At the same time, farmers feel that in order to get their good news stories out they should use competent people from farmer groups.

   When Dairy NZ heard that TVNZ was filming Flinty, they approached the producers and offered some alternative farmers, Dairy NZ-approved farmers.

   While well-intentioned, this would have been a mistake in my opinion and would've actually triggered the urban media because they would've sensed it was too perfect."

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/opinion/115462884/farmers-need-to-be-transparent-mud-dead-calves-and-all
   • greywarshark 1.1

     3 September 2019 at 10:39 am

     I liked this guy Robert. He wants to be real and present the good, bad and ugly of farming I think.

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018711246/tangaroa-walker-dairy-farmer-4-life
2. greywarshark 2

   3 September 2019 at 10:01 am

   The eyes of this little boy say a lot about how he feels about his life I think, and what he has to put up with. We may have to stop making heroic attempts to save lives of newborns with deficiencies in their systems. Can we bring ourselves to stop dreaming about all of us with enough education who are outspoken, having everything we want while others go begging, and accept the limits that our humanity actually imposes?

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/397990/auckland-measles-outbreak-mother-s-fears-for-boy-getting-liver-transplant
   • Sacha 2.1

     3 September 2019 at 12:57 pm

     Work will set them free.
     • Descendant Of Smith 2.1.1

       3 September 2019 at 1:12 pm

       Aye something the last government believed in with it's welfare reforms it's view that "benefit dependence equaled drug dependence and along with that other classic propaganda line "nothing to fear, nothing to hide".

       "On the pages 13, 20, 21 and 35 of ‘Ready, Steady, Crook’ Dr Bratt makes references and comments in which he likens or compares “benefit dependence” to “drug dependence”. I seek information from the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), whether it is the official position of MSD and Work and Income (WINZ) that benefit receipt is “addictive” like a “drug”, as suggested by Dr Bratt on page 35, where it reads: “the “benefit” – an addictive debilitating drug with significant adverse effects to both the patient and their family (whānau) – not dissimilar to smoking”. Dr Bratt also commented in an article in the “NZ Doctor” publication from 01 August 2012 that – quote: “Long term unemployment has been shown as bad as smoking 10 packets of cigarettes daily”. He continues: “As a drug, it would be an addictive, debilitating substance, he told the RNZCGP education convention”."

       https://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.wordpress.com/2015/08/09/msd-and-dr-david-bratt-present-misleading-evidence-claiming-worklessness-causes-poor-health/
   • Descendant Of Smith 2.2

     3 September 2019 at 1:03 pm

     I have family members who are alpha-1 antitrypsin deficient who haven't spent any time in hospital and others who have almost died on several occasions in either childhood or later on in life..

     All are productive members of society from running multi-million dollars businesses to caring for others with disabilities.

     It's an inherited genetic condition and its effects on an individual vary widely.

     I don't see saving them as any different to saving a car accident victim, an obese person who has a heart attack, a kid with measles, someone with sepsis and aneurysm or an old person with a broken hip. Many of these people require years, if not lifetimes, of rehabilitation and ongoing care.

     We would do none of those things if we, as you suggested, accepted the limits our humanity imposes.
     • greywarshark 2.2.1

       3 September 2019 at 1:47 pm

       You refer to your family. The condition makes them people needing more care than others, and it is genetic. You know what the situation is like for someone with problems caused from genes that are different from the norm. Recognising the problems and the cost of treatment is the result of an active, concerned health system. The fact that there are expensive drugs or treatments results in the ability of people with genetic faults to have a life to a good standard, and achieve.

       It is fair that the government try to help people with genetic difficulties. It is also fair that such people realise that there is a limit on what they demand from others. It is not an equal comparison to refer to random events of accidents which are applicable to all of us, including those with genetic conditions.

       Life is random and if we are born capable of individually living it we are lucky. But there is no guarantee for anyone though people are constantly demanding medication for longer life. as in parents with cancer, elderly people.

       I know someone who is a great person, requires ongoing treatment and I think has a child. I think it would be perfectly reasonable that sterilisation be now requested, though not insisted on. Perhaps someone who chooses not to be sterilised would have to set up a trust and pay into it throughout their lifetime, to help with costs of treatment. I think that such genetic faults need to die out. It would be fair for government to request sterilisation after one child, and that child also be sterilised if it is carrying the gene. I know this will bring eugenics into discussion. I think we need to do so.
       • The Al1en 2.2.1.1

         3 September 2019 at 1:52 pm

         kin 'el, what a monster 🙄

         Next up, the call for the forced termination of downs and cf fetuses for those without trust funds to care for them.

         And them deaf and blind kids – Why should the state have to provide books in braille and teachers of sign language?
         • Sacha 2.2.1.1.1

           3 September 2019 at 2:00 pm

           And what have autistic people like Einstein ever done for us, eh? #smh
       • McFlock 2.2.1.2

         3 September 2019 at 2:37 pm

         The "trust" they already pay into is the NZ government, via taxes.

         Besides that, the basic reason eugenics is bunk is because there is so much variation between individuals under any specific description chosen by eugenicists, especially when looking at multiple generations.

         I suspect the gist of your position was summarised by SCOTUS in Buck v Bell:

         We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, in order to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. . . . Three generations of imbeciles are enough.

         Fair to say, that decision is now infamous as a gross injustice.
       • Rosemary McDonald 2.2.1.3

         3 September 2019 at 2:41 pm

         I know this will bring eugenics into discussion. I think we need to do so.

         Look! Someone made a YouTube video just for you!

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN-2b2FPyNs

         "There are days when my fondest wish is that "Eugenics" hadn't been tainted as a science by racists and nazis."
       • Descendant Of Smith 2.2.1.4

         3 September 2019 at 2:48 pm

         "It is not an equal comparison to refer to random events of accidents"

         Science would tell you that genetic recombination is random the development of genetic conditions is quite often an accident.More of an accident in fact than a drunk person deliberately choosing to drive – or indeed a skier choosing to go skiing.

         Just taking alpha-1 an example you need to inherit 2 faulty genes – one from each parent. So the randomness depends on who you select as your partner and then on inheriting that gene from each of them.

         With one parent with the gene you can only be a carrier (50% chance).

         With 2 parents with the gene you have a 50% chance of being a carrier, 25% of not carrying the gene and a 25% chance of inheriting two faulty genes and being an alpha-1.

         Only 20% of alpha-1's then go on to have any problems that in itself in not predictable.

         Carrying the gene is an extremely poor indicator of whether you children will develop any problems and there is a hell of a lot of randomness in there.

         It's cool though only 19 million people in the US carry the defective gene.

         You really are non-sensical.

         Maybe you'd like to produce a list of other genetic disorders you think should have voluntary sterilisation. Why stop at genetics anyway? We know violence runs down generations. Stop violent people having children as well. Drinking alcohol is another. Costs the health system millions upon millions. Children of drinkers are likely to drink as well.

         TBH I don't think your post is serious anyway – you're just bored and being a dick.
         • greywarshark 2.2.1.4.1

           3 September 2019 at 3:03 pm

           So are you descendant of smith. I am serious just as I am about the future and what is going to happen in the absence of any attempt by people like yourself to enter the 21st century and cope with the fact that everyone can never get what they want. And that demanding whatever suits any particular citizen is not a way toform policies to run a country. We have anti-vaxxers who think like that but you won't see the similarity because you are filling your time writing here because you are bored and like to have an argument about why you shouldn't have everything you want. Because – not fair.
           • Descendant Of Smith 2.2.1.4.1.1

             3 September 2019 at 3:19 pm

             Haven't demanded or asked for a thing. In fact I'm far from even thinking I have the right or expertise to demand any prioritisation of medical assistance.

             I'm just appreciative that I live in these times and such interventions are possible and that there are things like ethics committees and lobby groups and politicians to work those things out.

             While money might seem to be an issue the fact is that each year there is more money in the world. The world's GDP continues to rise which means if cost is an issue then there is each year actually more money to do more with. We tend to not consider that – the NZS debate is fraught with the same failing. We can meet the future cost by increasing the value of what we produce – it's why a dependency on primary exports and tourism needs to shrink – low value ultimately. Apple is a good example of high value productivity per employee.

             How to make more money for the country is a much better approach to take – we just need to make sure the enviornment is not wrecked doing so. Taking advantage of intellectual property and technology – music, arts, software development, etc. Companies like Taits should have been fostered more rather than dairy. Much of our IP has been sold off e.g. PDL over in Hawkes Bay as one example.
   • Gabby 2.3

     3 September 2019 at 2:21 pm

     Will you be setting an example greysy?
     • greywarshark 2.3.1

       3 September 2019 at 3:19 pm

       There is nothing wrong with my genes, Gabby. My family have been able to get so far okay. But I would like the right to remove myself with euthanasia when I wished, but all the complaisant followers of conformity here seem to be unable to make a decision to enable those who wish this option. Those who can't think for themselves and can't imagine or practice objective thinking cannot make a decision to allow legislation to be drawn up with wide consultation from those who do think.

       The thinking and decision-making ability of NZs appears to be so poor that it is beyond people to withstand herd pressure to make a personal decision that isn't based on present high emotions or personal experience of family or friend's suffering.

       So Gabby I don't consider death lightly, mine or anyone else's. But I don't see that it is reasonable to want welfare from cradle to grave, without being grateful for receiving help from what is a universal system and reciprocating the taking with giving.

       It is interesting when I put up something that assembles the facts and looks at a subject judiciously, no-one is interested in discussing it. But when the emotions come into it, when something might be required from people, to give up something, to be refused on the grounds that they have had a fair deal, then everyone finds that so controversial. Thinking is hard, but emotions are easy; people are noticing that now the emotions of the mosque massacre have died away, there is a noticeable lack of compassion from government and needy people in their reality are replaced with barriers to the support they need. Take away the emotion, and what sort of caring people in NZ are we? Do we have empathy, or do we just want to actually confront the reality of people’s needs. Would we rather have people dying painfully because we are afraid someone might lose a day or a month, or want to access their inheritance. We are materialistic I think.
       • Descendant Of Smith 2.3.1.1

         3 September 2019 at 3:29 pm

         But I would like the right to remove myself with euthanasia.

         You know you can do that regardless of whether it is legal or not. Dead people are not prosecuted.

         Unless of course what you are really wanting is someone to help you do so which actually I support.

         You are pretty denigrating about your fellow man and seem to think that market failure doesn't exist in economics – that there is some utopian capitalist society somewhere where the weak and infirm are nurtured and old people get looked after. We have a welfare state precisely because the market fails in many areas.
         • marty mars 2.3.1.1.1

           3 September 2019 at 5:22 pm

           yep I want people looked after.

           So unpleasant when someone goes down the judgmental line of who THEY think should live or die.

           Good luck with your journey – kia kaha
3. greywarshark 3

   3 September 2019 at 10:21 am

   Did you catch this cleangreen? Your interest in seeing that the real costs of road usage and its pollution would find this a good move I think.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018711416/product-stewardship-end-of-road-for-tyre-waste
4. greywarshark 4

   3 September 2019 at 11:01 am

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/397993/social-service-providers-point-to-630m-shortfall-in-funds

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/398002/nurse-maude-in-home-carers-sporadic-worked-to-the-bone

   Where is the money to fill this need? Has it all gone away in tax cuts with money staying in the pockets of people who have no real needs, and f..k the rest of you while we sail off on a cruise overseas? (The papers are full of full-page adverts for these.)

   And all the while we push away doing stuff that should be part of a well-run modern democracy that respects its citizens. Have we got to the point that many see clearly that we are not 'a well-run modern democracy that respects its citizens'?

   What are we doing about it then? Can we RECYCLE OUR COUNTRY'S KINDNESS (ROCK). Then we can have a real rock-star economy and finger up to all the comfortable-and-wilful ignorants or CAW.

   This news item about two universities supporting student strikes could be a pivotal one in showing the direction that thinking NZs are moving to intervene to stop our slide into knuckle-dragging confusion in quicksand.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018711572/universities-show-solidarity-for-striking-school-students
   From Morning Report, 8:00 am today Listen duration 3′ :30″

   Victoria University has joined Lincoln University in endorsing a strike by school students at the end of September.
   Both are encouraging their staff and students to take part and neither will need to take annual leave nor explain their absence if they do so.

   The move comes ahead of a plan due to be announced by Victoria on how it hopes to reduce its carbon footprint.
   Victoria University's Vice-Chancellor Grant Guilford spoke to Corin Dann.
5. greywarshark 5

   3 September 2019 at 11:06 am

   Interesting – Local Maori want government to let the dam begin. Do the political green contingent really respect the opinions and beliefs of Maori, or are they more interested in what might be a middle-class enjoyment of nature and environment subjectively, than they are in people and their wishes for viable lives and decent living conditions.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/397955/decision-to-block-west-coast-hydro-scheme-absolute-madness-says-ngati-waewae
   • Puckish Rogue 5.1

     3 September 2019 at 11:08 am

     I get the feeling that you already know the answer to your question…
6. greywarshark 6

   3 September 2019 at 11:08 am

   Humans adapting to their environment? Business initiative to make a feature of keas' damaging obsessions.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018711594/keeping-kea-entertained-on-the-ski-slopes
7. Yorick 7

   3 September 2019 at 11:17 am

   What better source for Brexit than the Conservative daily rag ?

   Newslinks for Monday 2nd September 2019
   Last updated: September 2, 2019 at 11:17 am
   Johnson threatens to kick rebels out of the Party…

   “Boris Johnson raised the stakes against Tory rebels last night by promising to remove the whip from any who vote to block a no-deal Brexit and ban them from standing as a Conservative candidate at the next election. The prime minister issued the threat as opposition leaders and some Tories prepared to force through legislation compelling the government to secure another delay if there was no agreement with the European Union. No 10 is braced for John Bercow, the Speaker, to allow the coalition opposed to no-deal to seize control of the Commons agenda as soon as MPs return from their summer break tomorrow.” – The Times

   Withdrawing the whip could cost the Government its majority – The Guardian
   Prime Minister viewed as strong, decisive… and dishonest – The Times

   https://www.conservativehome.com/frontpage/2019/09/newslinks-for-monday-2nd-september-2019.html
   • Yorick 7.1

     3 September 2019 at 11:34 am

     Ashcroft finds Scottish majority for independence.

     https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/08/lord-ashcroft-my-scotland-poll-yes-to-independence-takes-the-lead.html
     • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1

       3 September 2019 at 11:36 am

       I have their theme song already lined up:

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi7xBe5-M8k
       • Macro 7.1.1.1

         3 September 2019 at 1:44 pm

         Yeah great one:

         How about this though.

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68y_w-fr-cU
     • greywarshark 7.1.2

       3 September 2019 at 2:01 pm

       I think it is time to step forward and be counted if any politician cares about the UK and trying to rally the people to carry it up to something better. To turn a morally bankrupt country around would be a gigantic task. But to allow the Conservatives like National here, to continue the path downwards and show hostility to the lower income people while they siphon off the goodies at the top will lead to disaster. And we shouldn’t have them here and bring their rotten materialism a la Thatcher to add to ours. We have enough immigrants already, and most of them are likely to be better citizens than very disaffected Brits, with their imprinted memories of once being white sahibs. And every UK person who reads that and bridles, why would you if you know you aren't one of the above.

       There must be a large proportion of less 'enlightened' people in the UK who have grown up with no true community of principles and commitment to each other. Out for what they can get like the family that were here. They have had an appalling sex scandal that has displayed a feral moral attitude in the north of England. It seems like a country where people have been left to rot, who don't like what they have become and look for others to blame the situation on – like immigrants.
       • The Al1en 7.1.2.1

         3 September 2019 at 2:05 pm

         And every UK person who reads that and bridles, why would you if you know you aren't one of the above.

         Because you're ignorant and stating a fallacy as a truth.
8. adam 8

   3 September 2019 at 11:27 am

   "Bernie is correct and the Washington Post is wrong."

   Be good if we had a left wing party talking like this. You know, like eliminating student debt.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXupheRutf4&feature=em-uploademail&ab_channel=SecularTalk
   • weka 8.1

     3 September 2019 at 11:44 am

     Be good if lefties would actually support and vote for the party already in parliament that has the policies they want. You know, like eliminating student debt.

     Tertiary Education Policy

     A vibrant tertiary sector is vital for the social, cultural, environmental and economic wellbeing of Aotearoa New Zealand.

     We believe that access to tertiary education is primarily a public good.

     We will work towards a tertiary education system in which fees are lowered, student debt is phased out, and the eligibility to student allowances is extended.

     We will ensure that funding for research and institutions takes the public interest into account and is accountable and transparent.

     Specific Policy Points:

     Loan Repayment

     • Support keeping the current zero interest scheme
     • Ensure that repayment rates reflect borrowers' ability to repay by adjusting the repayment thresholds to start at a higher income level, and introduce a progressive repayment scheme

     Student Support

     • Review levels of student support to ensure they are at an equitable and liveable level
     • Work towards a universal student allowance by progressively reducing the age at which students cease to be means tested on their parents' income and continue to raise the parental income threshold
     • Reinstate access to the Student Allowance for those studying postgraduate courses

     Fees

     • Work towards a public 'fee-free' tertiary education system by capping and then progressively reducing student fees
     • Review funding mechanisms to explore alternatives to EFTS funding
     • Ensure Tertiary Institutions are adequately funded

     Full policy is via this link https://www.greens.org.nz/page/tertiary-education-policy
     • Rosemary McDonald 8.1.1

       3 September 2019 at 1:13 pm

       Be good if lefties would actually support and vote for the party already in parliament that has the policies they want. You know, like eliminating student debt.

       I did! I did! And for those very reasons.
     • The Al1en 8.1.2

       3 September 2019 at 1:16 pm

       For some, apparently, they're too white and middle class.
       • weka 8.1.2.1

         3 September 2019 at 1:29 pm

         I know. Marama, that bastion of the Pākehā middle classes.
       • adam 8.1.2.2

         7 September 2019 at 11:24 pm

         Sorry massa, I should be a good negro and vote hows ya wants me.
         • The Al1en 8.1.2.2.1

           7 September 2019 at 11:34 pm

           Chips on both shoulders – Ah McCain, you've done it again. Lol
           • adam 8.1.2.2.1.1

             8 September 2019 at 12:15 pm

             nah just think your a racist dick on top of your teratophobia and violent nature.

             Mind you I'd expect nothing less from a tory prick like you. DO I add a 'lol' here to create false sense of levity, or is it to make you feel like you’re actually smart??!?

             [Please tone it down and stop with the personal insults – Incognito]
             • Incognito …

               8 September 2019 at 1:03 pm

               See my Moderation note @ 12:15 PM.
               • The Al1en …

                 8 September 2019 at 1:33 pm

                 He ain't heavy, he's my brother (label maker) lol
                 • adam …

                   8 September 2019 at 2:35 pm

                   racist dick.
                   • The Al1en …

                     8 September 2019 at 2:36 pm

                     Another baseless personal insult 🙄
                   • adam …

                     8 September 2019 at 2:40 pm

                     Indeed, I reserve the right to call out racist dicks.

                     [Indeed, you have a right to call out “racist dicks” and you could even consider it a duty. Of course, this needs to be supported by unequivocal evidence. Further, you have no right to call them out by personally insulting them. In other words, play the ball, not the man. If there’s bad blood between you and another commenter, then avoid them, don’t reply to them, and if you must comment, only engage with their comment, not with the person behind it of whom you know very little – Incognito]
                   • Incognito []

                     8 September 2019 at 4:24 pm

                     See my Moderation note @ 2:40 PM.
                   • The Al1en …

                     8 September 2019 at 2:47 pm

                     There's not one racist post I've made on here that could lead you to reach that insulting conclusion, which isn't odd in itself on both counts, as I'm not a racist, yet I know you get angry when challenged or your student slogans get called out as bs.

                     Despite your inferiority issues and angry adam persona, I’m always happy to debate you and continue the winning streak.
                   • adam …

                     8 September 2019 at 2:51 pm

                     When you not calling me a crippled cunt or threatening violence.

                     Is that when you want a reasonable debate?
                   • The Al1en …

                     8 September 2019 at 2:59 pm

                     Again, for the third time, and which then (or since) drew no moderator response, in reply to another of your personal attacks, when you told me to go back to the tory land I came from, I said I wouldn't stoop so low as your obvious racism and for example, call you a crippled cunt in retaliation.

                     As for supposed threats of violence, that's another lame duck. I was then, and still am, quite okay for you to find the courage and make your claims face to face. No threat of violence, just an open invitation. Are you sure you’re not just using it as an excuse to play the victim to cover your own failing? But that's all moot, because we both know you don't have the balls to emerge from behind your keyboard. It's an internet cowards privilege.

                     But disregarding all of that, there's still no racism, from me at least, so yeah, just another baseless insult.

                     https://thestandard.org.nz/national-is-pinning-2020-success-on-someone-who-is-not-in-parliament/#comment-1631599
                   • The Al1en …

                     8 September 2019 at 3:10 pm

                     And the original exchange

                     https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27-05-2019/#comment-1621574
                   • adam …

                     8 September 2019 at 5:50 pm

                     it's the lies that hurt.
               • adam …

                 8 September 2019 at 5:47 pm

                 I don't comment on any of their post – their the racist troll who comments on mine. And if you can't see the racism in their comments then I can't help you.

                 [TS provides a free platform for people like you to comment. Other commenters are free to engage with your comments or ignore them as they wish. Particularly OM is a free-for-all given that it is not based on a specific Post that is ‘owned’ by an Author – Authorship comes with certain rights here but commenting does not imply such rights. By engaging with comments and addressing the topic, a debate ensues, sometimes robust. Personal insults per se are not equivalent to robust debate. In fact, they are debate killers. If you do not understand this, please ask for clarification – Incognito]
                 • Incognito …

                   8 September 2019 at 6:36 pm

                   See my Moderation note @ 5:47 PM.
                 • The Al1en …

                   8 September 2019 at 7:44 pm

                   The fact of the matter is I actually replied to Weka, making an often versed point about the green party, one with which she agreed, and yet it's me who unfairly got called a racist because of it.

                   I see that moderation note, and even though it's not specifically directed at me, it is worth noting.

                   For sure, I'll do my part in following it.
     • Descendant Of Smith 8.1.3

       3 September 2019 at 1:18 pm

       Some of us quite a while ago shifted our voting from Labour to Greens on the basis of a coherent welfare policy that stopped dehumanising people.

       We still live in hope, foolish though it may seem, that Labour will one day have the same.

       Meanwhile women with babies are full-time Job Seekers and benefit rates remain ridiculously low.
       • weka 8.1.3.1

         3 September 2019 at 1:30 pm

         I have some remaining hope that a L/G government might start moving us in the right direction.
         • Herodotus 8.1.3.1.1

           3 September 2019 at 2:35 pm

           the current govt has already moved us to the right
           • weka 8.1.3.1.1.1

             3 September 2019 at 3:09 pm

             how so?
             • Herodotus …

               3 September 2019 at 6:01 pm

               The manner in which nurses, police, teachers etc pay negotiations were handled, I could imagine that National would not have played it so tough, this from the same govt that was at pains to convey how much they value these and other professions BUT ….

               All demands were aggregated up e.g. 12%increase for teachers and the extreme top end was always used to support the govts' position, that IMO was to destroy public support .

               For teachers, police, nurses etc cases these increase were at best status quo from where their rates were in real terms from 4 years ago, and in many cases the remuneration is less than what it was.

               Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words. And I note just in the news our Labour Govt will allow interest rates of 292% p.a. so as not to to fleece those less fortunate. If that is not right of the spectrum then what is
               https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-finance/101502/government-includes-daily-interest-rate-cap-loans-part-bid-crack-down-loan
       • greywarshark 8.1.3.2

         8 September 2019 at 11:11 am

         DoS A good program on Insight Radionz this morning looking at the unmet needs of beneficiaries particularly the impoverished solo Mums, who are majorly Maori and Pasifika. It pointed out that these are the NZ citizens who have been left to bear the burdens imposed on society by the economically austere and socially-hypercritical governments that the self-centred conservatives of NZ have imposed on us.

         https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/insight/audio/2018711947/solo-mums-on-benefits-having-to-decide-between-food-and-fuel
     • adam 8.1.4

       7 September 2019 at 11:23 pm

       FFS weka that is not eliminating the debt. Did you miss my comment.

       Here it is again

       "Be good if we had a left wing party talking like this. You know, like eliminating student debt."

       Not some half assed incrementalist crap full of newspeak clap trap.
       • Incognito 8.1.4.1

         8 September 2019 at 10:32 am

         Education Minister Chris Hipkins has announced the results from the first year of the Fees Free policy.

         Students have saved hundreds of millions of dollars in loan borrowing as a result of the Coalition Government’s first-year Fees Free policy, final figures show. [my bold]

         https://www.tec.govt.nz/news-and-consultations/first-year-of-the-fees-free-policy/
         • adam 8.1.4.1.1

           8 September 2019 at 12:07 pm

           FFS it is a simple argument – it's about debt relief.

           And dealing with a whole nature of debt created by student loans – so your happy to continue to throw those under the bus who are suffering now.
           • Incognito 8.1.4.1.1.1

             8 September 2019 at 12:57 pm

             Please don’t put words in my mouth, thanks.

             The first, but not only step, to debt relief, is to stop or slow down the problem of getting worse. It would be immensely shortsighted to eliminate existing student debt whilst allowing new students to take on more debt. Your argument has been addressed here but you don’t seem to like the answer; not left enough to your liking? Too much talk and not enough action, is that it?
             • adam …

               8 September 2019 at 2:33 pm

               Funny the jib about words in mouth – as I said end the debt, if you tried a bit harder and looks at the policy Bernie is pushing – which is no more student loans. My line was simple – stop creating more student loans – couple that with the removal of debt. Otherwise it just more talking out both sides of your mouth.

               As for not liking what you said or going far enough – we all been misled enough by incrementalist claptrap, I see it as a argument for the status quo and more of the same BS.
       • weka 8.1.4.2

         8 September 2019 at 11:25 pm

         FFS weka that is not eliminating the debt. Did you miss my comment.

         Here it is again

         "Be good if we had a left wing party talking like this. You know, like eliminating student debt."

         Not some half assed incrementalist crap full of newspeak clap trap.

         Adam, the full policy says student debt write off and free tertiary education. Not sure how that doesn't fit 'eliminating student debt'.
9. Puckish Rogue 9

   3 September 2019 at 12:30 pm

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115457620/czech-couples-decisionmaking-on-deadly-great-walk-tramp-criticised

   Reading what happened is like reading a what not to do, pretty much everything you're not supposed to do they did.

   Sad outcome.
   • Kevin 9.1

     3 September 2019 at 12:56 pm

     The minute they ignored DOC advice to not walk the track, they pretty much sealed their own fate. Breaking every rule in the NZ outdoors is rarely rewarding.
     • Sacha 9.1.1

       3 September 2019 at 12:58 pm

       And not telling anyone so they could avoid paying hut fees. Darwin Award territory.
       • greywarshark 9.1.1.1

         3 September 2019 at 2:49 pm

         Why did it take three years? That is a burden hanging around everyone's neck far too long.

         And action that uses the lesson from the event. There should be in huts some way of attracting the attention of searching planes/helicopters. A long wide yellow sash to lay on the ground, say, or some colour that stands out to someone way above. That would have helped the woman.

         A memorial plaque was put up to the dead Czech man in 2017.

         https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/323056/memorial-plaque-for-czech-tramper-on-routeburn
         • McFlock 9.1.1.1.1

           3 September 2019 at 3:12 pm

           Backlog in coroners' cases.

           Also there were at least two reports (MSC and DoC) plus the autopsy incorporated into the final coronial decision, so that might have added to the time.
10. greywarshark 10

    3 September 2019 at 1:00 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/398009/international-tourism-slowdown-fears-ahead-of-new-zealand-annual-industry-summit

    Heading – Death of NZs international tourist boom?

    Oh hell are we having to go cold turkey? I am getting the shakes right now. Easing down on tourism is vital, but I hope this headline is a shock and awe thing rather than actual collapse.
    • weka 10.1

      3 September 2019 at 3:10 pm

      I haven't read it yet, but I think they are just talking about the growth slowing to zero. It's not like the industry is going to suddenly collapse. Unless of course it needs growth to function and sustain itself.
11. greywarshark 11

    3 September 2019 at 1:11 pm

    The car failed to stop so police chased it. Sounds like what a dog does after it sees a cat. Can we bring the police under government control? This idea of having noble, disinterested agencies operating under a standard and guidelines but pretty much under their own licence doesn't work satisfactorily. The Police, the Treasury, the Transport Agency, the Welfare Dept, the Health Dept. Are these entities serving us, or their own devices and desires? Sir Humphreys take note.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/398013/youths-car-crashes-during-police-pursuit-pair-flee-into-cemetery-before-being-tracked-down
    • Andre 11.1

      3 September 2019 at 2:25 pm

      Just outta curiosity, how do you think police out on patrol should respond when they see dangerous driving putting other road users at risk?
      • greywarshark 11.1.1

        3 September 2019 at 2:41 pm

        Lift them off the road using a large helicopter with a giant magnet.
        • Monty 11.1.1.1

          3 September 2019 at 2:49 pm

          I assume this comment was meant to include sarc in it and you are not being serious.
          • greywarshark 11.1.1.1.1

            3 September 2019 at 2:56 pm

            I am being serious Monty – that should have been obvious. And it is possible, we can fly to the moon so perhaps there could be large drones capable of this.

            Can't see it happening but it was such a silly question from Andre. Dangerous driving putting other road users at risk? Try driving to and from work on the Auckland motorway every day.

            I think that police need to take note of the number plate and not spook the often young joyriders who may be able to negotiate the traffic all right if watched from a distance, and under the gaze of a helicopter, or smallish drone. They should be nabbed asap and get a caning. Ooh sorry that is forbidden now. Well police will just have to chase them till their brains overheat and they smash into a post, a tree, a bridge or somebody else.

            All sarc/
            • Monty 11.1.1.1.1.1

              3 September 2019 at 3:12 pm

              I do not think Andre's question was silly it was a discussion point and very relevant, some one who is joyriding/Dangerous driving does put the public at risk.

              The screams of outrage would be deafening if the police did nothing and the dangerous driver hit and killed an innocent person. The Police are in a catch 22 situation and they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
            • Jimmy 11.1.1.1.1.2

              3 September 2019 at 3:56 pm

              Nothing wrong with Andre's question ….what was silly about it?
      • dv 11.1.2

        3 September 2019 at 3:43 pm

        Shoot the car with a gps.

        Then track the car and put in spikes/road blocks
        • Andre 11.1.2.1

          3 September 2019 at 3:47 pm

          Who makes the equipment needed to do that? How close do you have to get before you can successfully shoot them with a GPS? How long is the pursuit likely to have been before the cops get close enough?
          • dv 11.1.2.1.1

            3 September 2019 at 4:41 pm

            Don't know.

            But seems possible. Sortta like paintball.
            • McFlock 11.1.2.1.1.1

              3 September 2019 at 5:31 pm

              I read somewhere that the Japanese police used paintball guns to mark fleeing vehicles, but they ended up being too inaccurate and not much use.

              Air observation is the biggest advantage, but also expensive and has regulatory issues.

              Integrated traffic cameras can be useful after a certain level of coverage is achieved.

              Then it's a case of how do you stop them? Hope they hit the spikes (without killing any of the roadside cops), or do a high speed car collision? Or gunfire from a moving vehicle?
              • In Vino …

                3 September 2019 at 10:10 pm

                It's no good shooting something at the vehicle, you fools. It is the driver at fault, not the vehicle.

                I think we need a fast, manoeuvrable drone to shoot a microchip into the thick skull of the driver.

                Next time he walks past a supermarket checkout, he can be easily nabbed by Security staff and Police can be notified.

                Please, a little more outlandish imagination is needed.
                • McFlock …

                  3 September 2019 at 10:47 pm

                  lol

                  Funny thing is, for the lower end of idiot, it probably doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where they're going to go 90% of the time.

                  Food, drink, sex, or home. Maccas, nightclub/party, lover's lane, or driver's address.
      • arkie 11.1.3

        3 September 2019 at 5:19 pm

        Toby Morris illustrates an alternative.

        The IPCA made two recommendations when the pursuit policy was reviewed in 2009:

        * The risk to public safety from not stopping an offender should be the principal factor justifying a decision to pursue.
        * The decision to pursue should be based on known facts, rather than general suspicion or speculation.

        The police did not adopt them.

        The 20 years of a no-pursuit policy from Tasmania has had positive results:

        Tasmania, which banned pursuits in 1999, says it has not resulted in any increase in road or other crimes, despite claims that “anarchy” would ensue.
        • Andre 11.1.3.1

          3 September 2019 at 6:03 pm

          Sure, as long as it's coupled with confiscation of vehicle and loss of driver license. Anyone that runs from police needs to be taken off the road, stat.

          Campbell is also misrepresenting what the Tasmanian policy is by saying Tasmania banned pursuits in 1999. As far as I can tell the current policy still allows pursuits:

           An obvious and immediate danger to human life; or

           A response to, or prevention of, serious crimes.

          https://www.police.tas.gov.au/news-events/media-releases/new-pursuit-policy-for-tasmania-police/
    • Gabby 11.2

      3 September 2019 at 2:26 pm

      Surprised you don't approve of the self-elimination greysy.
    • Jimmy 11.3

      3 September 2019 at 2:32 pm

      Hopefully these "kids" will learn that in future if police ask you to stop, you actually stop. They have a second chance. The 27 yo 2 days ago in Whakatane unfortunately will never learn as he "became airborne and struck a large tree". I guess the roads will now be safer.
    • Psycho Milt 11.4

      3 September 2019 at 2:49 pm

      They will be referred to Youth Aid.

      There were no reported injuries.

      I guess road safety will have to wait until this one eventually wins a Darwin Award. Hopefully they don't take anyone out in the meantime.
12. joe90 12

    3 September 2019 at 1:44 pm

    Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

    https://twitter.com/ICIJorg/status/1168206914620198917

    https://www.icij.org/investigations/paradise-papers/court-rules-leaked-documents-are-fair-game-in-tax-case-against-glencore/
13. joe90 13

    3 September 2019 at 2:08 pm

    Idiocracy is a place.

    https://twitter.com/BillyCorben/status/1168369061283213312
    • Andre 13.1

      3 September 2019 at 2:20 pm

      Well, yeah. The proto-Camacho's big idea to reduce mass-murders is to make it quicker and easier to murder the mass-murderer after he's been caught.

      https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/02/politics/donald-trump-gun-control-congress/index.html
    • ianmac 13.2

      3 September 2019 at 2:43 pm

      Surely satire!??? As ignorant as Trump but different wig.
14. Robert Guyton 14

    3 September 2019 at 6:06 pm

    "A climate change advocate was arrested for painting an example of projected rising sea levels on an MP's office window.

    Police confirmed Rowan Manley Campbell was arrested for disorder and received a pre-charge warning, after spraying a pink line across Coromandel MP Scott Simpson's office window in Thames on Tuesday morning.

    The line represented the potential risk of a one-metre sea level rise hitting the town."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115496729/extinction-rebellion-protester-arrested-for-spraypainting-mps-thames-office

    Help me, Jesus!
    • In Vino 14.1

      3 September 2019 at 10:13 pm

      Robert, I don't think Jesus is bovvered. He can walk on water, remember?
15. sumsuch 15

    3 September 2019 at 10:52 pm

    Haven't looked previous. What matters most is democratic solidarity in addressing climate change. I'e. getting the least of us onside. Whereupon I dispise this govt.
16. Eco maori 16

    4 September 2019 at 10:34 am

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

    https://youtu.be/w5tWYmIOWGk
17. Eco maori 17

    4 September 2019 at 6:27 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    The new Kiwi build is great now common people can get on the housing ladder of life with the %5 deposit requirements awell as 4 working people being able to apply for the home start grant.

    Jenna they can't be that high if they are warning the back benches in the Behive.

    Boris Britain is not America.

    I agree that everyone should be vaxcernated to protect the sick pepi and tamariki.

    Its great that the Prince is championing our futures climate and sustainable tourism our planes will become carbon neutral really fast compared to what the climate change denyers are spouting out I got that.

    Ka kite Ano
18. Eco maori 18

    4 September 2019 at 6:52 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Yes Te raukumara is in a bad state its good that our government is taking to Ngāti Porou and other Iwi about managing the pest on the East coast goats and deer opposems

    Cool that people are challenging the way the health system let's tangata whenua down Ka pai Dr Scott. They didn't get away with providing my mokopuna with a shoddy discriminatory service that's for SURE.

    Taika new move Jojo Rabbit will be a excellent move for Te tamariki he has some great actors in the movie Ka pai.

    Great a online tool Ap that makes it easier for Tangata Whenua to access help for Maori tech is the game changer teno pai.

    Ka kite Ano
19. Eco maori 19

    5 September 2019 at 8:39 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Its excellent the Rugby game with some ex All Black's to champion Hart deases diabetes and other associated with bad diet ie to much sugar that affects Pacific and Maori tangata.

    Kiwi build is great and its just getting better

    The main reason that we have a measles problem is a low wage gypsy society some government made people struggling to put food on the table. Having to move for work and having the whare pulled out from underneath you because of unscrupulous landlords. People working 2 jobs 80 hours a week to pay rent =not time space to think about the tamariki immunisation.

    The housing market was shorted by national that is why they are so expensive and hard to get. +A housing short is the easiest way to get our GDP to grow making a fulse impression that national was doing a great job growing our economy YEA RIGHT. Only the wealth gained from nationals time in Parliament

    Yes Aotearoa has to much money invested into unproductive whare the money needs to be invested in productive business adding value to our export.

    Ka kite Ano
20. Eco maori 20

    5 September 2019 at 6:26 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    That is the correct to handle our Wai Awa and Tangaroa we need to preserve our water for our future generations its not ROCKET SCIENCE it logical.

    Farmer need to own up to their actions of degrading our Waterways.

    The New Zealand authority's And support staff have looked after our Chinese guest very well after there accident Ka pai that is how to treat guests with respect and honour.

    Team New Zealand new yacht being unveiled today awesome these boats new technologies will lead the way forward to the Papatuanuku marine industry to a carbon neutral footprint.

    Michael there you go???????.

    Ka kite Ano
21. Eco maori 21

    5 September 2019 at 6:48 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    It would be excellent if Tangata Whenua OAotearoa got a good trade deal with the European Union and Britain.

    That is sad Honey all the best for your mom's health and your new marriage.

    Manu Paul your houners are well deserved for your 50 years mahi championing Aotearoa Wai quality issues cause by not treating Wai as a Taonga as it is a treasure with out Wai we won't exist full stop.

    It would be excellent to see Te tuna and other creatures thriving in our Awa once again Ki Ora to our Coalition Government for making the move to protect our water.
    All the best to the Ice skating Wahine for her mahi and being Maori striving to be a role model for our tamariki

    Ka kite Ano
22. Eco maori 22

    6 September 2019 at 8:30 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show

    The Auckland City mission a organisation that feeds hundreds of people on low incomes is running out of the food we all know who to point at for this mess. Please help the poor tangata of Auckland and donate to this great organisation.

    The new Americas cup boat looks awesome what a fantastic technological feat building a massive boat like that.

    Its great to see Wahine presenting a fishing show Mana Wahine. WHAT about Mandys Kupenga fishing show Get Your Fish On she been presenting her show on Maori TV for a few years now.

    The Lockness monster heaps of eel dna the Lockness must be nice and clear and clean Wai Ka pai for looking after there taonga the Lockness.

    The story on diet you are what you eat humanity needs a diverse range of nutrition we can not get all the nutrition from vegetables especially our Pepi that is one reason why Eco Maori tau toko our farmer who produce our protein products Milk sheep and beef the other is most are whanau owned in Aotearoa.

    That is one of my favourite movies series

    The Highlander.

    Ka kite Ano
23. Eco maori 23

    6 September 2019 at 3:47 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

    https://youtu.be/tgVVG5EknuI
24. Eco maori 24

    6 September 2019 at 6:29 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    That's great heaps of PEE getting taken off our streets in a big bust

    That's awesome a $95 million dollars our government is investing in North Lands railway tracks.

    All the best to the tangata of the Bahama Island who have just been through the huge Hurricane Dorian hope America helps them with the clean up after that huge mess the hurricane made.

    That's a cool name for Team New Zealand new Yacht the Maori name of Dolphin excellent our Dolphin need all the help that they can get.

    Ka kite Ano
25. Eco maori 25

    6 September 2019 at 6:50 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    He doesn't look happy the kunikuni hunters I have already told you a story about Eco Maori trying to get help from the Ambulance service not at all I had to be driven 2 hours with serious injuries.??????.

    I agree that the ainty vaxcernat people have a lot to answer for.

    That's correct our Coalition government is putting more putea into Pharmac it is a lot better than the last government.

    I agree Wiki Pharmac should be more transparent so we know why they are funding drugs for one sickness and not others ie heaps of putea for skin cancer a lighter colour skin problem and not much for other cancer that affect brown people more.

    Ka kite Ano

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