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Open Mike 03/10/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 3rd, 2018 - 81 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

81 comments on “Open Mike 03/10/2018 ”

  1. Muttonbird 1

    Lobbyist for Agri-Business, anti-fresh water advocate, and disgraced former EPA scientist, Dr Jaqueline Rowarth has penned an opinion piece no doubt funded by the fertiliser industry.

    She begins by attempting to equate inert atmospheric Nitrogen with the active nitrates which have been used excessively and negligent by the expending Agri-Business sector in recent years. In this way she appears to be treating her audience like children.

    She then sprays a most bizarre comparison:

    People die when they overdose on Class A drugs. People die when they have insufficient nitrogen.

    This is from a former chief scientist, remember, and is apparently in response to recent articles which describe the Ag sector as ‘addicted’ to Nitrogen.

    The rest of the sponsored piece covers the idea that human progress should trump the environment (where have we heard that before?), and defends the Ag sector’s apparent but reluctant improvement in Nitrogen loss practice. Beyond saying, “encouragement is needed to do better”, she does not at any point recognise that the Ag sector has had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the table on this and she does not credit water quality advocates for their role in getting them there.

    • Sanctuary 1.1

      That piece was something else, huh? How was it even allowed to be published? It is arrant rubbish that a reasonably well educated high school student’s bullshit meter could detect at 1000 paces.

      I looked, but I couldn’t see any obvious “sponsored content” logo.

      Are they all morons at Stuff?

      • tc 1.1.1

        As expected when there’s no standards being enforced. A tag of ‘opinion’ works here also as they’ll never admit to the opinion being bought and paid for.

        A Collins decision some years back I recall with the usual Judith brand of bluster at the time. They’re not morons just messengers and conduits dressing up as authorative and objective discourse for the sheeple.

        No surprises national chose not to reign that in as it’s a handy tool for them in opposition also.

        Fairfax and channel 9 merged in July (thanks malcolm) so stuff’s got new masters also.

        • Dukeofurl 1.1.1.1

          They ‘should’ allow a counter opinion piece that Im sure plenty of experts can pull her opinions apart.

          But you can see how an expert on farm economics ( she was a professor of Agribusiness) became ‘Chief Scientist at an entity under Nationals watch

          A publication of hers had the implausible Title
          “Agricultural intensification protects global biodiversity”

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2

        Are they all morons at Stuff?

        Stuff, like all privately owned news organisations, are beholden to what their advertisers and owners want.
        Quoting Capitalism vs. Freedom:

        As the excellent PR Watch reports, ”Immediately after FDA approval of rBGH, attorneys for Monsanto sued or threatened to sue stores and dairy companies that sold milk and dairy products advertised as being free of rBGH,” usually for ”defamation.“8 But Monsanto threatened Fox with ”dire consequences,” presumably in the form of withdrawn advertising and legal suits. The network’s own legal staff dragged the journalists through dozens of revisions, attempting to minimize or remove any mention of cancer or other specific health effects. Bribes and bullying were also attempted, including an episode where the journalists claimed a manager said ”We paid $3 billion for these television stations. We will decide what the news is. The news is what we tell you it is.”

        Hayek claims the market is an ”efficient mechanism for digesting dispersed information.” Meanwhile, we’re digesting synthetic cow hormones.

        My bold.

      • patricia bremner 1.1.3

        Sanctuary, 1.1 Rhetorical question .. Right????

    • Ngungukai 1.2

      Prity whacky IMHO

    • Ed 1.3

      Amazing how deeply corrupted people can be by money.
      Rowarth is a disgrace.

    • bwaghorn 1.4

      The fact that she doesn’t actually do science probably tells you why she works as an opinion for hire .
      It’s like farm consultants ,those that can farm do those that can’t consult.

  2. Jenny 2

    The New Caesar?

    Bill Maher interviews Steve Bannon

    @14:26 minutes

    Steve Bannon: If we lose the House, he is gonna get impeached……

    @15:12 minutes

    Bill Maher: Speaking of elections, I would love to know, what advise you would give to Donald Trump, if he didn’t leave, even after he lost. Because I saw Hilarly Clinton….,

    SB: [interjecting] You are obsessed with this

    BM: I am obsessed with this.

    SB: Why do you think he is not gonna leave?

    BM: Because he is an insane narcissist, who talks all the time about how we should have a President for life.
    Let me read what Hilarly said…. -Because you are right- People have been saying, ‘I am alarmist’ and ‘I am crazy’, because I keep saying that he is not gonna leave even if he loses- 
    Now crooked Hilary is saying… [laughter]
    …..She said, ‘You remember the moment in the third debate, when Trump refused to pledge that he would accept the results of the vote. That’s where it started.
    She said, ‘It took my breath away. Even the moderator from Fox News couldn’t believe it. I felt the foundations of our democracy tremble.’
    Imagine if Trump says the same thing in 2020, what happens then?

    SB: This is the reason she’s not President. I mean, this is the kind of gobbledigook….

    BM: So you’re saying he will go if he loses?

    SB: I think it is out of the question. I think that’s absurd….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXAjdfgYvmE

  3. Ad 3

    Good to see Sanders successfully pressuring Jeff Bezos to raise the minimum Amazon pay to $US15 per hour.

    Sanders crafted a bill specifically naming Bezos in the title.

    Any time Biden or Warren, any time….

    It ain’t worker shareholder utopia, but a win’s a win.

  4. Ngungukai 4

    Council’s are going to start testing ground water for Round Up (glysophate) levels in drinking water.

    • tc 4.1

      What are they currently testing for now such as Nitrates/ecoli/residual materials and bacteria of sorts ?

      They seem to detect water quality issues from complaints rather than proactive measures, i.e hastings etc in the hawkes bay.

    • Robert Guyton 4.2

      (Reply to Ngungukai re. Round up)
      Why bother? Why not collect data on application volumes and rates? What about the Roundup that is eaten by stock or amassed in plants; potatoes are rounded-up just prior to harvest. Test those.

    • Incognito 4.3

      Glyphosate

  5. Ffloyd 5

    Can’t believe it! Paula Bennett asking media and everyone to respect JLRs privacy at this difficult and possibly embarrassing time so he and his family can deal with his health issues. Fair enough. Totally agree. But PAULA BENNETT!!. She’s taking the proverbial isn’t she?

    • Muttonbird 5.1

      It’s an absolute disgrace the way they are hiding behind mental health as a means with which to shuffle this internal strife out of the public eye.

      They’re framing Ross as an unhinged lone wolf, and signalling that anyone else who dares question the leadership will get framed in a similar fashion.

      Once everything is out that is going to come out, the already low public perception of trust in the National Party will have been dealt further and significant blow.

      • Cinny 5.1.1

        Mental health, is not considered embarrassing, thankfully NZ is evolving and has evolved in that aspect.

        An internet porn addiction, now that would be embarrassing.

        By using the word embarrassing, they are driving more nails into a coffin, I doubt simon will be leader for much longer.

        • Incognito 5.1.1.1

          Excellent comment!

        • veutoviper 5.1.1.2

          As Incognito said, excellent points.

          I could not believe how badly Bridges handled his press conference on LJR yesterday. The language he used was so inappropriate and just planted all sorts of possible interpretations. As for saying that he had no idea etc just showed how out of touch he is with his own Caucus.

          I rarely visit KB but did so last night and again this morning, and many there also believe that Bridges handled the situation very badly and that he will not be leader for much longer.

        • marty mars 5.1.1.3

          Even the porn addiction isn’t embarrassing because of the addiction aspect – in many ways it can fit under a mental health umbrella imo. The word embarrassing was really shocking. Taken everything up a notch. Very subjective and only going to cause trouble.

          • shadrach 5.1.1.3.1

            Wow that escalated quickly. Where did the idea of a porn addiction come from?

          • veutoviper 5.1.1.3.2

            IMO porn addiction etc is unlikely. Life in the Parliamentary bubble has (and always has had) many effects on people, families, forming of relationships, marriage security and breakups, etc. Have a think about what Todd Scott is hinting at in the quote in my comment here in terms of sequencing …

            National’s leak problem

        • alwyn 5.1.1.4

          “An internet porn addiction, now that would be embarrassing”.
          That didn’t seem to matter to Shane Jones did it?
          Senior Minister in this Coalition of Losers Government.
          Mind you that is about what you would expect from him.
          Dumped his wife and seven kids to take up with a former beauty queen.

          • marty mars 5.1.1.4.1

            Up to your usual slime there eh al. What a lowlife creep you are.

          • Cinny 5.1.1.4.2

            alwyn, what would you consider as embarrassing for an MP?
            In the context of simons explanation for jlr taking time off.

            • McFlock 5.1.1.4.2.1

              Embarrassment requires a sense of shame.
              Alwyn has no shame.
              The question is meaningless to Alwyn.

              • alwyn

                And McFlock is as thick as always.
                I suppose I might be embarrassed to demonstrate such foolishness but it clearly doesn’t bother you to show you are an idiot does it?

                • McFlock

                  And yet you have said so much without a blush that anyone with a sense of shame would have avoided.

            • alwyn 5.1.1.4.2.2

              The Mps I have known were all so thick skinned that it is impossible to think of anything that would actually embarrass them.
              The thing I think that should embarrass them is being shown up as being completely ignorant of things they should know.

              Examples would be someone prattling on about how hints on the GDP results show that everything is OK.
              Then having to have your office coming out and saying that of course she wasn’t talking about GDP, and that she hadn’t been given any hints. I would expect that MP to be embarrassed that they had shown they were completely ignorant of what GDP is. No, bluster that you were talking about something else and it wasn’t your fault that the interviewer didn’t realise that.

              Another example would be an MP where someone comes in to talk about changes they want made to the benefit system and they haven’t the faintest idea what it will cost.

              I don’t mind an MP not knowing the answer to questions they get cold but why don’t they say that they don’t have the answers and will get back to the interviewer? When it is a pre-arranged interview on the topic that shouldn’t happen.

              Another case where they should be embarrassed is when they state something that is false but they claim that “The other lot did it”. Arranging a three person team to take campaign photos and announcing it when it is illegal to pay for it in the way you are proposing.

              They don’t act embarrassed though. As I have said it appears nothing at all can embarrass them.

              As far as Simon’s statement goes I find it very hard to think of anything that would actually embarrass any of them. Fifty years ago I suppose being the parent of an illegitimate child might have been embarrassing but it certainly isn’t anything of the kind today. is it?

              • Cinny

                ‘As far as Simon’s statement goes I find it very hard to think of anything that would actually embarrass any of them.’

                Crikey, makes one wonder.

              • Incognito

                Alwyn, you aren’t a National MP, are you? Now, that would be embarrassing.

                Rumour has it that salaciousness is not frowned upon as much as it should in some legal firms and in the legal fraternity.

                • In Vino

                  Smarmy trick by alwyn: conjure up dodgy things (to his mind) about Left politicians when we could all name worse travesties performed by Right ones, then pretend that he himself is relatively innocent in his trolling .. + bitterly aggressive personal attacks on anyone who points out his deficiencies.
                  What are you compensating for, alwyn? Were you bullied when young?

    • ianmac 5.2

      And JLR was given his seat in Botany in 2011 in very dubious circumstances. Chickens roosting?

      • Herodotus 5.2.1

        What re you saying that the voters of Botany rigged the situation, or like Florida in 2000 there was alleged voter manipulation mmm ??
        https://www.elections.org.nz/events/past-events/2011-botany-election
        I am sure Mr C.Viper could lay claims towards another party of “managed” selections !!!!

        • Dukeofurl 5.2.1.1

          Wasnt rigged . The leading candidates were Ross and Maggie Barry. JLR had been a Manukau then Auckland Councillor for the area so was obviously the one to beat but no surprise that he won.

          • Herodotus 5.2.1.1.1

            Yes Maggie Barry had no connection with the electorate (IMO she was a hired gun slinger looking for any town) , at least JLR had a connection with the area.
            Unfortunately it has become acceptable to “fly in” candidates into a safe seat. (I can accept the situation regarding P.Goff when after many years living in the area they move “slightly out of zone”.
            And not being associated with a political party, BUT when an announcement like this is made. Should not all parties involved at least use the same common language/term in any interviews or press releases ? Buy using a variety of terms now speculation has arisen ? Perhaps this is stage 2 politics, and the current Nat leadership is only in a stage 1 class ????

            • ianmac 5.2.1.1.1.1

              My reference was for the influence of Simon Lusk and Carrick Graham in getting JLR elected. By memory they achieved this by undermining the opposition and with the aim of getting as many Far Right as possible elected.
              It was in “Dirty Politics” book.

      • Ngungukai 5.2.2

        Karma

  6. Morrissey 6

    Those breakfast TV shows give us high quality presenters and high quality banter. NOT.

    TVNZ1, Breakfast, Tuesday 2 October 2018, 7:30 a.m.
    A learned discussion on whether Customs agents should be allowed to force travelers to give them passwords to devices….

    MATTY THE WEATHER GUY: [breezily] If you’ve done nothing wrong, why would you object?

    Daniel Faitaua and Jack Tame nod their heads and grunt their assent. But one of the four is clearly appalled….

    HAYLEY HOLT: That’s always what they say. Next thing why not just force their way into your home?

    DANIEL FAITAUA: [primly] Rules are rules.

    JACK TAME: Yeah.

    MATTY THE WEATHER GUY: Yeah.

    An hour later over on Newshub’s a.m. show

    DUNCAN GARNER: There’s this thing with millennials having their photo taken, there’s always some dork giving the middle finger. What’s up with that?

    Breakfast TV has been crap for years….

    https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/nz-has-possibly-two-worst-breakfast-tv.html

    https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/does-anyone-choose-to-watch-ones-lousy.html

  7. Reality 7

    Mike Hosking’s hate obsession with anything/everything Jacinda does/says has become farcical and tedious. He is unhinged. Surely there should be some balance in his daily rant. Is there no editorial control?

    • AsleepWhileWalking 7.1

      This is the Nerald?

    • alwyn 7.2

      Well you seem to think that Hosking is deranged because he says things that tend not to favour Ardern.
      The Mars Bar kid, Marty, on the other hand has decided that Hosking is now his BFF because he has had a go at Bridges.

      National’s leak problem


      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12136039
      Please advise whether you think Hosking is deranged in both cases or only when you don’t like what he says?
      Are other people allowed to think that he is deranged in his comments about Bridges but right on the money in his comments about Ardern spending up large with taxpayers money on her publicity shots?
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12135986

      • Reality 7.2.1

        Alwyn – a fair and balanced view is what most reasonable people would accept. However Hosking rants hysterically day after day after day about our PM. And just this once he has a go at Bridges. About time.

        We all remember his childish pouting and “they are keeping ME waiting” the night Winston made his announcement. Unprofessional.

        • In Vino 7.2.1.1

          Better to see Hosking as what he is – not terribly bright in logic, and a twister of words hired by right-wing masters. When he gets something right for once, you can bet it will be through chance rather than his journalistic qualities.
          A bit like a blindfolded darts player.

    • Ngungukai 7.3

      He is upset that he can no longer hide his nose between John Keys cheeks every morning.

  8. Reality 8

    Well well at long last Hosking has taken Simon Bridges to task for his bumbling. Must be the first time and hopefully not the last.

  9. veutoviper 9

    I went to Bradbury’s Twitter account as a result of the National’s Leak Problem post, and found this.

    Unrelated to the leak problem, but very relevant to the Kavanaugh problem. Could not resist posting it!

  10. ScottGN 10

    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/408458-feinstein-accuses-kavanaugh-of-misleading-senate-about-handling-of-grand-jury
    Senator Feinstein is trying to open a second front in the battle to unseat Kavanaugh.

  11. Wow tough call. I get it but I don’t know if I could take it.

    How should a university treat an application from a mass murderer?

    This was the question facing the University of Oslo, when Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik applied from prison to take its political science degree.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45705939

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      He’s still in prison:

      Nevertheless, three years ago the university agreed to let Breivik study under strict conditions and he has continued as an undergraduate student, taking a course which includes political theory, party politics, public administration and international relations..

      Course materials are given to him by a prison officer and he has no contact with students or academics or access to the internet.

      I think it would be a benefit to him and society as it’s likely to help his rehabilitation. Excluding him would probably make things worse.

      • JohnSelway 11.1.1

        I’m not sure someone like Brevik is able to be rehabilitated.

        Being a mass mirderer on such a scale seems to me at least to be something you can’t cure

      • Chris T 11.1.2

        He killed about 80 people and injured over 300

        I doubt very much he will be rehabilitated,

        But I don’t see the problem with letting him do it correspondence or whatever

      • Gabby 11.1.3

        Fair enough, but people should be allowed to shoot him on sight.

        • Muttonbird 11.1.3.1

          Yep. Can’t imagine the rest of the student body being thrilled at the thought of Breivik getting a free education. Especially as his victims were just like themselves.

          However, it is Norway where they are famous for not rocking the boat…

  12. bwaghorn 12

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12133419

    Fuck me more proof the right wing are scum of the earth . The tax payers union lies to get official information.

    • Muttonbird 12.1

      Ah yes, the mysterious Raquel Ray.

      Jordan Williams and Farrar caught redhanded being deceitful. Not a surprise.

      I mean actually using real people’s identities – how depraved can you be? Mind you, David Garrett is a guest poster there and he wasn’t above using a dead child’s identity.

      Looks like the scum is rising to the top. Now to scrap it off.

    • Ed 12.2

      Damning.

    • Wensleydale 12.3

      David Fisher is a national treasure. I don’t know how he stomachs many of his colleagues to be honest.

  13. Muttonbird 13

    See ya later Tony. Not sorry to see you go because you were a large part of the problems which NZ continues to face. You weren’t sorry for what you did and in fact you doubled down when faced with criticism and continued to act like a tool.

    I’m not proud you call yourself a Kiwi.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/107563652/former-broadcaster-tony-veitch-officially-signs-off-from-nz-media-and-moves-to-bali

  14. CHCOff 14

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/10/us-ambassador-warns-nz-not-to-trust-china.html

    China is a totalitarian surveillance state that NZ, along with other western countries in the west, have made wealthy and powerful via having our political economy getting out of hand via neo-liberalism. Whatever the goings on behind it, their direction in recent years seems to have gone a 180 from sagacious leadership to that of threatening belligerence, domineering expansionism with a lot of talk about preparing for war, pronounced investment in military and who knows what related technological advancements, along with creating artificial sea land bases for extending military capabilities.

    China is now a powerful but fragile, economic and social system requiring continual radical expansion to prop itself up it seems.

    In response, one of the things New Zealand could do is going back to our sports club culture. We have the resources and traditions to be a thriving and active sports club population. That would among other things provide us with the backstop of being able to mobilise very quickly if worst came to worst, and be formidable; along with laying the hay for a localised self-representative trading nation, which would increase our value and cache in desirability in international relations. That would also provide indirect leadership to these sticky type global problems & challenges that are only going to intensify.

    NZ1st!

  15. eco maori 15

    Kia ora The Am Show Trees that take ten years to grow will be soft and worth less.
    Manuka Honey will lose value if GE is found in it other wealthy nation’s test for it .
    When there is pear reviewed evidence that there is no BAD side effects on life because of this technology then may be .I dont trust big business who OWN this technology as far as I could——-.
    They cheep on having knee jerk reaction’s and give themselves a bloody nose.
    That’s cool that Australia will be cervical cancer free in the near future.
    But they need to sort out there commitment to the Paris climate change agreement or we will have no environment.
    Ka pai to Jill mana wahine for beating some of the fastest shearers in the world kia kaha Shearing is all about skill and technique she was world champion .
    Her story show how much we have changed for the better in the last 30 years in Aotearoa that tell’s me it has been good for equality having wahine Prime Minster’s in our past .
    Most of Our baby boomer are good down to earth Kiwis we remember the Muldoon era ka kite ano P’S Mark S how’s the mokopuna’s

  16. eco maori 16

    Duncan everyone working should be in Kiwi saver .
    With the shearmarket Warren Buffet best advice in invest in a group that has shear in the top 500 companys there is a company that spreads one investment across a lot of these company’s and there returns are close to the return’s he gets ,
    But in reality its a big compay’s game ka kite ano P.S gossip is a thorn in Eco Maori side

  17. eco maori 17

    This is another reason why our waterways have been degraded so fast our urea use has exploded % 100 since the 1990 from 50.000 ton to 500.000 in a short space of time.
    We have a duopoly in the fert industry who are just targeting proft over what is good for our environment.
    They spend heaps of money discrediting organic farming practices this method of farming has served us for century’s.
    It is well documented that organic farming produces the same or more than high urea input farm’s . The first 3 years of organic farming production drop’s that’s because the plants and soil is hooked on urea and it takes 3 years to change the microbiology in the soil to build back up to good sustainable level and walar you are producing more health organic prouduce.
    The big 2 company’s don’t like organic because one could make there own organic fert .
    I say a law should be made for all farm by major water ways have to change to organics. link is below Ka kite ano.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/105093180/the-big-fertiliser-companies-are-accused-of-quashing-a-more-environmentally-friendly-way-of-applying-nitrogen

  18. eco maori 18

    I wanted to write about Dairydack in a separate story .
    Here is the reality of how and why Dairydack use exploded in Aotearoa .
    Its the stupid employment drug testing that has caused this explosion people were losing there job’s because the levels of weed setting were way to low if someone had a joint the nite before a test there level of working safe is not compromised by this use the nite before work they failed the test and lost there job so many switched to Dairydack It was not tested for a few years ago and it was legal and nether was PEE tested for.
    So a few people switched to Dairydack and got hooked on the ———–stuff.
    Solution raise the weed testing levels of weed to tell you if they have consumed weed 3 hour’s before work or while at work at that level it does compromise ones safe working practices . Use the nite before is safe as houses on ones work safety .
    This has a similar ring to it as the PEE testing of houses industry the work place drug testing is a big industry employers pay a lot of money for these test got to have some fails to make it worth while . That is one reason they keep changing the dirty dairydack ingredients is to pass the drug tests.
    Ka kite ano This is the reason Eco went hard on dairydackdune.

  19. eco maori 19

    Here you go oil baron’s no need to threat invest in GREEN TEC and watch your investment grow .
    This industry is the new tec to BOOM everyone is going GREEN houses construction energy transport manufacturing the lot .
    Its 2018 time to change for the better for all on Papatuanuku .
    Link is below ka kite ano.

    http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20180928-the-people-building-a-greener-future

  20. eco maori 20

    I tried to stick to my principles but when I see people trying to give the victims hat to the offenders I have to speak up about trumps views on Kavanugh
    1 Men have more power than wahine
    2 Men have more money than wahine
    3 Men are physically stronger than wahine
    4 Men are not as Humane as wahine .
    There will be some men who are innocent but that is a low state compared to the men who get off scot free from these crimes just because of were the world society’s are at now men at the top wahine at the bottom it needs to be equal and balanced.
    Ka kite ano.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/02/politics/trump-scary-time-for-young-men-metoo/index.html

  21. eco maori 21

    Don’t get me wrong I still have a lot of aroha for my European tipuna/ ancestors I would not be here if it was not for them.
    But on Cooks statue in Gisborne the people have spoken and I tau toko / support them why because we have celebrated Cook and European culture for 150 years while Te tangata whenua/ people of the land have been taxed and put down for the last 150 years.
    Its Time to lift Maori’s Mana and prospects to the highest rung on life’s ladders.
    Link is below ka kite ano P.S I don’t have a problem with Irish or any culture’s I just tell it how I see it

    https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/captain-cook-endeavour-boat-intl/index.html

  22. eco maori 22

    Kia ora Newshub it show me what one can do when they have money Glorivale vale
    Our river’s are in a bad state I agree with Mike Joy the signs of a good waterway is living creatures in the waterways .
    That was a freak accident at that golf game.
    That’s good that Our government is going to pay building contractors more if they have apprenticeships training .
    We learn more about the human mind every day the fonts changes that improve ones memory .
    War is not a nice happy place as some think it should be and not when they have 30 people trying to kill them. I still say NZAMRY should be peace keepers only.
    Ka kite ano

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