Open Mike 03/12/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 3rd, 2017 - 71 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

71 comments on “Open Mike 03/12/2017”

  1. Morrissey 1

    GROPERS
    No. 15: Matt Lauer

    …fired from the “Today” show this week amidst accusations of serial sexual harassment and molestation, including one woman’s account that he used a “lock button” to trap her in his office and sexually assault her in 2001.
    https://jezebel.com/matt-lauers-wife-annette-roque-has-reportedly-left-the-1820943044

    Like another highly controversial American, the anti-free speech zealot Peter Thiel, this creep was given special treatment by the (thankfully defunct) National government….
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/99395517/disgraced-us-tv-host-matt-lauer-irks-kiwis-who-cannot-pass-through-his-land-to-huge-park

    “GROPERS” is presented by GroperWatch, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.
    Keep up with the Gropers….
    No.1 George Herbert Walker Bush; No. 2 Bill O’Reilly; No. 3 Al Franken; No. 4 Robin Brooke; No. 5 Lester Beck; No. 6 Arnold Schwarzenegger; No. 7 Joe Biden; No. 8 Rolf Harris; No. 9 Harold Bloom; No. 10 Sir Jimmy Savile; No. 11 Dr Morgan Fahey; No.12 Prince Harry; No. 13 Bill Clinton; No.14 Judge Roy Moore

  2. mary_a 2

    Brilliant /sarc …

    Former MP Todd Barclay commits what’s considered to be a crime, not talk to the police, no charges laid, then swans off on a taxpayer funded European holiday with the girlfriend!

    Seems crime does definitely pays if you are a disgraced Natz MP!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11951474

    • dv 2.1

      Be interesting to know who paid there fares?
      Is there any way he could of got the fares paid by the taxpayer(other that from his salary)?

      • Bearded Git 2.1.1

        I think I heard he is still paid as an MP for a while (3 months?) after he leaves parliament.

      • veutoviper 2.1.2

        Much as I don”t usually recommend reading the Herald, how about actually reading the article before commenting?

        This article actually gives the details of what Barclay has and still is receiving until 23 December – as are other now ex MPs who stood down or lost their seats at the general election.

        It is actually worth reading in full but here are some bits

        Disgraced MP Todd Barclay has just enjoyed a two-month sun-filled tour of Italy, Croatia and Greece all while receiving a $3000 a week taxpayer-funded pay packet.

        The former National MP announced in June he would not stand again after the “phone tapping” scandal – but under Parliament’s rules he still receives his salary until December 23.

        That means Barclay will have pocketed a total of $80,000 of taxpayer money, before tax, over six months.

        It’s unclear what work he has done since June – Parliamentary Services, which administers politicians’ funding entitlements, was unable to say how many days he had been in Parliament or whether he had claimed any expenses.

        This week it was reported that Barclay had taken a job with the Japanese owners of Queenstown’s Millbrook Resort, the Ishii family. His London-based role is as international business affairs secretary for the family’s Japanese design and software company, Too Corporation, Mountain Scene reported.

        As an MP and deputy chair of a select committee Barclay earned about $160,000 a year as well as the added benefits of travel and accommodation expenses.

        Under Parliamentary policy someone who retired would still be paid until three months after polling day – up to December 23.

        All 34 MPs who resigned or lost their seats at the 2017 election still get paid for three months – about $40,000 in total, or $3300 a week, before tax.

        Former MPs and party leaders Peter Dunne and Te Ururoa Flavell defended Barclay, saying departed MPs have an entitlement and how they use it is their business.

    • Grantoc 2.2

      mary_a

      You are wrong. Barclay was never convicted of a crime.

      Metiria Turie admitted committing fraud, which I believe is a crime.

      In the interests of balance the Herald should have commented on her too and how she has spent her tax paid salary since she left parliament.

      • fender 2.2.1

        If mary_a had said Barclay was convicted you may have a point, but she didn’t so your comment just makes you look incapable of comprehension.

      • mary_a 2.2.2

        Grantoc (2.2) … I never said Barclay was convicted of a crime. The police didn’t bother to lay charges!

        BTW what has Metiria Turei got to do with this issue? At least she had the good grace to admit what she did was wrong and prepared to pay what she took, back to social welfare.

        Pity Metiria is no longer an MP. Parliament is a poorer place for her absence.

        • Grantoc 2.2.2.1

          Mary_a

          True – you never actually said the words “he was convicted of a crime”. But you strongly implied that he had committed a crime, which is as near as dammit to actually saying that he should have been convicted. The whole tenure of your comment was to buy into the Herald’s faux righteous indignation and to tut tuttingly condemn him.

          What does Metiria have to do with it? Simply that she acknowledged defrauding tax payers and she has since continued to receive tax payer paid remuneration in the same way Barclay has and every other mp who did not return to parliament has. Given the circumstances maybe we should also know how she has used her tax paid remuneration, and allow ourselves to be similarly outraged.

          The Herald was highly selective in drawing their readers attention to, shock horror, Barclay’s situation whilst completely ignoring other retiring mp’s who in th opinion of the righteously indignant could have also acted disgracefully (eg Metiria).

          I guess i’m irritated by the cynical inconsistency demonstrated by the Herald concerning Barclay. And the gullibility of those it dog whistled to for responding as they have.

          • fender 2.2.2.1.1

            Bill English also strongly implied Barclay had committed a crime, have you taken it up with him?

            Wonder why that little shit ran off and refused to give a statement to the police?

          • McFlock 2.2.2.1.2

            Barclay told the PM he did it. And Turei had the excuse that she was being subjected to a welfare regime that deliberately pays people an amount that is insufficient to live on. Barclay had the defense that the pm was telling porkies about a member of his own caucus.

          • mary_a 2.2.2.1.3

            Grantoc 2.2.2.1) … recording a private conversation without the permission of those involved is a crime.

            As for Metiria, she was torn to shreds by a vicious media, out for blood. And they got it. At the she left Parliament, Metiria was on her own, unlike Todd Barclay. He had a lying, conniving, dirty politics playing leader such as Bill English to spin lies on his behalf!

            • Grey Area 2.2.2.1.3.1

              You guys do realise you’re debating with someone who either can’t spell or is too lazy to bother (Turei instead of Turei) or failed
              English (tenure when they mean tenor)?

      • repateet 2.2.3

        Barclay was never convicted of a crime. The money out of our taxes to pay off someone from his office wasn’t for a crime, it was for ……………… um ……………

  3. greywarshark 3

    Kim Hill enabling Don Brash to rise from the crypt (loved the image we had on our recent post) gave fertiliser to the destroyers of NZ bi-cultural values that are ready like old man’s beard to spread and smother our society. It was a mistake. I feel sad that there are so many white men who are steeped in ideas of superiority and sufficiency so they have nothing to learn, no regard to wider society, no reflection of their own limitations once they find their niche to their ‘standing in the community’; their pipeline of trickle-down emoluments delivered to them personally as belonging to the entitled circle. They rose from their crypts at the Constitution Conversation and tried to take over the discourse with the single-mindedness displayed in that zombie-walking-dead tv show. My advice, keep your distance, and don’t let them bite you.

    I like these thoughts from Lew of Kiwipolitico 2/12/17 as they get to the heart of the matter, from someone who has a heart and is also rational.

    Brash finally went one small step too far, with the claim that the Māori are not the indigenous people of Aotearoa, but merely its second-most-recent invaders. This notion has been debunked for almost a hundred years,…There was nowhere left for Kim Hill to go. Nobody can debunk arguments advanced with such disregard for reality.

    So she shut it down. But better than shutting it down would have been not entertaining it in the first place — which is, by and large, what Māori seem to have wanted. The error of this interview was not merely giving Brash a platform, but its objectification of Māori, the idea that their right to existence on their own terms was a matter for debate….

    I was in the crowd for this sacrifice. Loath as I am to continue focusing on Pākehā feelings, I have to say: my only remaining feeling is the horror of being responsible for all this. Not only for today’s sacrifice, but the small sliver of the past that is my contribution to what got us here. We Pākehā need to take care of our own embarrassments, it should not fall to Māori to do that. So we need to stop treating the right to Māori existence on their own terms as conditional on our goodwill, and start treating it as a fact of life.

    [from now on, please include a link when you cut and paste from a website – weka]

    • Ad 3.1

      It would not have been difficult for RNZ to agree: “Yes, we will do translations at the time for any full sentences in Maori, just like they do in Parliament.”That would have taken the wind out of his sails.

      Instead she treated him with unnecessary disdain, and he in turn did fine.

      Hill spent far too much time posturing about the RNZ Charter, and far too much time lobbing easy oppositional questions so that Brash could dig holes for himself about pre-contact Maori being in the stone age.

      She also made no mention of the other RNZ Maori-specific programming which slips easily from Maori to English with no fuss.

      • solkta 3.1.1

        I find having to actually listen to what they are saying in Maori and trying to work out what they are saying helps my understanding of the reo. Translating it doesn’t help one understand the sentence structure.

        • Ad 3.1.1.1

          I agree that most of the NZ public can pick up specific words, and can scrape by with a few phrases.

          Maori Language Week specializes in that, and I see that in many workplaces.

          It’s not enough.

          If we are going to help the language survive as more than a set of nouns we trot out to feel pc, we need to deal with it in whole sentences.

          That’s where live translation comes in, and it’s why Maori TV is so successful.
          RNZ needs to improve enabling people to speak te roe Maori, as sentences not as words, and translating the sentences at the beginning of the morning news show is a great way to start that.

      • veutoviper 3.1.2

        It would not have been difficult for RNZ to agree: “Yes, we will do translations at the time for any full sentences in Maori, just like they do in Parliament.”That would have taken the wind out of his sails.

        At the beginning of the interview, Kim Hill stated that the translations of the Maori greetings etc used by RNZ presenters are all set out on the RNZ website at http://www.radionz.co.nz/collections/kiaora

        She subsequently repeated this several times during the i/v.

        The RNZ website also includes a number of other articles, explanations etc setting out their objectives etc in relation to use of Te Reo (includinng directions from the former Minister of Maori Development under the previous National government).

        For example this link which also includes links on pronunciation of various words, and links to other RNZ articles and external websites providing more help.

        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/279645/new-kupu-for-maori-language-week

        • Ad 3.1.2.1

          Yes I noted that about the website.
          Five clicks in is not good communication, there’s simply no excuse for trying to use web communication with live translation. Doesn’t work in the U.N., doesn’t work in Parliament, certainly doesn’t work on radio.

          RNZ should be held to the same standard as Maori TV, which regularly simulcasts its translation as subtext. As it should.

          Brash on that point was right, and RNZ should simply acknowledge that it’s really easy to fix, and fix it.

      • greywarshark 3.1.3

        Perhaps she saw Brash as an easy, risible target. But one should never underestimate the power of nostalgia for apparent past glories. In this case – of
        European ascendancy and duplicity. Luckily Maori had a good line in duplicity too, so they couldn’t be taken to the cleaners for some blankets and beads.

        She should have had that list you mentioned at hand. But I did like the jibe at unintelligible and uncertain business and economic-speak and all based on possible lies and unrelated stats making up a possible model that will be measured to see if it is working. And if not, then the report will not be released till after the Budget, the Election or some other high-water mark.

    • Rosemary McDonald 3.2

      Between Kim Hill’s interview with the anachronism that is Brash and Wallace Chapman’s interview with Gideon Levy some of my faith in Natrad is restored.

      ‘Enabling’ ? Not really. Kim Hill gave him enough rope and sat back while he hanged himself. A delight to hear, and I could almost see that wide eyed look that so often appears on the faces of the blindly privileged when someone has the the temerity to suggest there may be opinions counter to his own.

      One day these mostly white males will finally shuffle off their mortal coils and we might be free of their bigotry…until then, the younger folk need to hear that some of Grandpa’s wisdom is…. not.

      • Ms Fargo 3.2.1

        Time for younger more tolerant (and kinder) leadership to shut these old white trumplike dinosaurs down.

    • Sacha 3.3

      I like these thoughts from Lew of Kiwipolitico 2/12/17

      greywarshark, please include the link to the story: http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2017/12/the-beginning-of-the-end-of-an-error/

    • weka 3.4

      please see moderator note above.

  4. eco maori 4

    Many thanks for you view greywarshark I agree totally. I seen a recent TV show were one has targets to reduce OUR prison population by 30% many thanks to Our coalition government for setting a. great goals. But I say that that goal will bite you on the ass when you don’t achieve it. Why do I no that won’t be achieved 1 points is most the people running our justice system are of the same era dum brash. They have the same ancient I dialogical view which has caused all the_____ups we have in our society this can be proven as fact. I no that most of these people vote national and the Maori party. I say it was a joke someone trying to blame Tamati Coffee for there lose of Mana.

    • eco maori 4.1

      So in my view OUR justice system is broken how do I no this well no one in the justice system is held accountable for there actions they control the media on articles about the justice system so that most that gets out is positive news about them they have no independent institutions to hold them accountable for there actions. There arguement will be the so called independent police conducted authority this is a farcical organisation that just protects there image O yea it works for the wealthy but not the other 95% of us.
      To cut a long story short here is what has happened to me I filed a complaint to the IPCA it got accepted with help from a good kiwi.
      They email me to say they were investigating my complaint of breach to my human rights and privacy rights. And one nite I get a random visit from this blonde police officer whom was supposubly look for a false person what was his motive well maybe to sight me or intimated me you will have to ask my neo liberal neighbour. A week also goes by and I get a email and the officer claims that he interviewed me and investigated my complaint and said that there was no case of breach to my rights YEA RIGHT. These people have been breaking into my house on a regular basis I asked the landlord to put dead lock on the front door but no you see he is m8 with my neo liberal neighbour so I payed $140 to get one installed. O and all those emails that I had from the IPCA they have been deleted from my computer but we all no that nothing is ever totally deleted from the Internet net I will get someone to recover this information when the time is right. We need to hold our justice system to account for there actions before we will be able to lower our prison population if we don’t do this these people will keep on doing what they are doing now an no one can touch them so they think they are right.

      • eco maori 4.1.1

        Here’s a story on all the time I have been discrimination against because of my Maori origins.
        I was 17 fishing in Napier I brought my 3rd car HK 69 Holden I drove to work drove around a lot in Napier never got a fine.
        I had a fallout with my mum went to Gisborne and met my wife and stayed at my auntie house which was the house that my great-grandmother brought me up in and every 2 days I got pulled up and fined so in 3 months I had racked up $1000 worth of fines I thought that there is just heaps of cops in Gisborne to explain why I had clocked so much fines in such a short time my auntie once commented to me that if the cops harassme me to write a letter of complaint to the police commissioner I did not take this information in at that time. 8 months later I sold my car to pay my fines and I find out later that my wife was pregnant with our first child at massey unerversity and I made a promise to my great grand mother that because I did not no I had a father that I will always put my wife and children first. And now when I look into my past I see that the cops targeted me because of my Whano which is a breach of my rights in the treaty of waitangi.
        Because a lot of my whano are in the justice system they have used this against me and bribed them for false information IE whano gossip. I chose a different path to most of my whano which makes me different and can cause the eels in the bucket syndrome IE I climb out and they keep trying to pull me back in. They will try and use any tactics to get me as they do to other people it’s not hard to work this out. They use bait cars houses open gang members to try and intimidat me old associates parading Lady’s past me in my view they are putting these Lady’s in danger and this shows they have no respect for these Lady’s. I no everyone they have used to try an find shit on me they have stereotyped me into a farcical image based on some of my whano members. I would never do what they have tried to bait me into doing. 1 I’m not a idiot 2 it is not in my DNA to steal ect I never changed my name I never went bankrupt I payed most of my dept 3 I no that I will be held accountable for my actions unlike them. They use my children neighbours my neighbours and a lot of other people they have caused hardship to all my immediate Whano members. (And this behaviour by OUR justice system is OK by you well no and I will drag there ASSES over the hot coals of a court house and make them treat MAORI fair and humanly and equally ]. Kia Kaha

        • greywarshark 4.1.1.1

          eco maori
          You will be judged because of your whanau by the police and watched. And your whanau will be annoyed at you going off in your own direction. So maybe you need to think of a different location in the future. It’s hard to be an independent thinker. You might be right about everything but not be able to get redress, it is just the way the system works at present. Kia kaha.

          • eco maori 4.1.1.1.1

            I’m not running away from these dicks GWS I do not fall for power suggestions so go try it on someone else I will have my days in court Ana to kai

        • eco maori 4.1.1.2

          Here’s a story on the hardship they have put on my daughter who lives in Pukeohe.
          She meets her partner in Rotorua he has 2 children and my daughter looks after them when they visited she is a loving caring girl. They have a baby girl of there own the state takes the 2 children off the scorned ex and gives them to my Daughter these children have been through a lot of bad things she treats them like her own one day we all have Christmas together and the boy punches a window that my second eldest moko is poking tongues at him she get a shard of glass in her eye I saw it sticking out lucky she only had minor damage to her eye this shows anger problems that was stressful fast forward 3 years. My daughter had a fall out with her partner and comes to stay with us and leaves his children with him so he goes to see if the ex can look after there children while he works shes a addict and the scored ex accuses him of indecent assault WTF Anyone with a brain can see she is a woman scorned she has trolled my daughter on social media the cops charged my son-in-law with this farcical charge I advise them to fight this charge and it cost them thousands to defend the. Because of more false statements from the ex the state takes the 2 children off them they just as there behaviour was coming right and gives them to the scorned ex. The charges get dismissed but they make my son in law do 400 hours community service and slap a 5 months home detention on him to ice this farcical cake they are making my daughter and her partner eat and to top it all off they had the cheek to ask my daughter to take the children back because the ex gets done for drunk drivering
          I advised them that the other 2 children have been ruined and they will teach my mokos bad behaviour and also to keep the Ex out of there lives and to do that they cannot take the children back
          Because of this evil woman ways. This has place my moko and daughter and son in law in hardship. What sort of justice is that I no they have treated them like this because of me. Ana to kai

  5. Bearded Git 5

    Wallace Chapman interviewed a very impressive Israeli guy Gideon Levy this morning who condemns the actions of the Israeli government illegally defying UN sanctions with the settlements and the prison that is Gaza . Well worth a listen.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018623972/gideon-levy-israeli-journalist

    interesting that Israelis are not allowed to visit Gaza. Hidden under the carpet even though it is 15 minutes drive from Israel. Levy says that Gaza has been assessed as being “unlivable” in 2020.

    • greywarshark 5.1

      And he mentioned apartheid. He says the settlers live close to the Palestinians. The Israeli settlers are supplied with water and electricity and services. The Palestinians nearby have no water supply, no electricity, and can wake up in the night to armed Israelis in their bedroom. He says that Israelis are deep into a mindset from propaganda that Palestinians are low humans and don’t deserve caring human consideration because of some reason… that justifies this attitude.

  6. joe90 6

    But her emails.

    On Dec. 29, a transition adviser to Mr. Trump, K. T. McFarland, wrote in an email to a colleague that sanctions announced hours before by the Obama administration in retaliation for Russian election meddling were aimed at discrediting Mr. Trump’s victory. The sanctions could also make it much harder for Mr. Trump to ease tensions with Russia, “which has just thrown the U.S.A. election to him,” she wrote in the emails obtained by The Times.

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/02/us/russia-mcfarland-flynn-trump-emails.html?referer=https://t.co/Rt9xh2iQjw?amp=1

  7. Rosemary McDonald 7

    And, and, this… http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018623967/philip-bagshaw-why-doctors-needs-to-speak-out …from Wallace Chapman this morning.

    “Professor Philip Bagshaw, founder of the Canterbury Charity Hospital, says the country is stuck in an austerity model for health and it’s about time doctors spoke out about it moving to an investment model.:

    He speaks of how neo liberalism has practically killed the NHS (as was intended) and what needs to be done to save our own publicly funded health system.

    Strong on advocacy is this one…:-)

  8. The Chairman 8

    Does Sky TV risk consumer backlash (such as a boycott) with its attempt to censor the internet?

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/11/sky-tv-accused-of-trying-to-censor-the-internet.html

    • OnceWasTim 8.1

      A better question would be:
      Does Sky TV risk disappearing up its own arse?
      It seems to have a management that is incapable of seeing the bleeding obvious when things cudda shudda wudda been oh so different.
      You know, if I could be bothered, I could get all the channels I regularly watch (off satellite and FTA) with a little investment in things like C-Band LNB and associated equipment, AND have the ability to record and watch as and when desired.

      I think the answer is, SKY will have to radically mutate, or it will disappear up its own arse – EVEN IF it wins its latest desperate attempt to control and plunder.

      • The Chairman 8.1.1

        “Does Sky TV risk disappearing up its own arse?”

        If they lose the rights to the rugby, most likely.

      • McFlock 8.1.2

        Seems to me they’re trying to morph into a streaming company (hence really wanting to jump in bed with vodafone), but they haven’t managed to bridge the gap.

        The pisser is their court case where they want veto rights on internet access, lol.

        The funny thing is, they’re almost there, with the skyplus boxes that have a hard disk function they expect people to pay an extra $15/mth for when they also stream the same content. What they could do is get from China some boxes that have everything as optional addons: broadband streaming (including subscriptions to different services that pay a royalty to be installed on the boxes), or takes satellite if you go for that subscription, and the hdd rental on top of that. And the box doubles as a wifi router if you need one of them, so it’s kit you have around even if you’re not paying sky anything at the moment – because it makes it easier to give them money if you change your mind.

        • Craig H 8.1.2.1

          Not sure that Sky want to go streaming, but if they do, they don’t want to seriously commit to it until they absolutely have to, by which time Vodafone and others will probably have left them behind.

          • McFlock 8.1.2.1.1

            Someone was looking for synergies with that merger plan.

            The only reason people like me are still with sky is pure laziness. To be fair, they’ve made some effort with that loyalty app, but I have limited space on my phone so haven’t downloaded it, and you can’t use app from a desktop/website. So the only thing keeping me with them is a) I like paying for content I really like, and b) I don’t want to have to go through upteen steps to watch a program, with tv it’s turnontv-flickchannels-done. The ultimate sense-experience, not “what do I want to watch” but “this’ll do”. I’m hot, I’m tired, I’m cooking dinner, what to watch doesn’t need to be a menu goddamn choice. My food isn’t, the TV I watch needn’t be.

            Sometimes I do want to watch/stream specfic things, but not after work..

            • OnceWasTim 8.1.2.1.1.1

              “The only reason people like me are still with sky is pure laziness.”
              Me too, although not necessarily laziness – more that I’ve got better things to do than go down to Sky and hand in my decoder, and invest in CBand LNBs, and associated electronics. Last time I did (just to tell them I was fucking off overseas for 3 months), I was confronted with desperate sales-speak and ‘press 1’ for fuck all, or press 2 for slightly better than fuck all options.
              You know Sky could have prolonged the inevitable if they’d been more reasonable – except they chose to be smart arses. But then what do you expect with a CEO like that? Now they’re trying to push the limited even further in some ego-driven fight to the death plan.
              It’s utter wankery – but it’s also to be expected

  9. JC 9

    Important Notice:

    “What does CPTPP mean for you? Come along Tuesday 5 Dec, Europe House @AUTuni to hear from Minister of Trade David Parker. Register here: https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/nz-trade-policy/public-engagement-on-trade/ …”

    Other venues/ dates here… From Dunners to the Tron all on this week

    https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/nz-trade-policy/public-engagement-on-trade/

  10. The Chairman 10

    Labour better sort this out before they go chucking huge amounts of taxpayer money at the sector.

    Almost 90 per cent of the forestry industry is breaching employment standards and that may not even be the full extent of it, according to a Government audit of the sector.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/99430664/forestry-audit-reveals-widespread-breaches-in-employment-standards

    • OnceWasTim 10.1

      I’m pretty sure Labour are well aware of it, just as they are in other sectors. Hence their commitment to beef up the Labour Inspectorate – which is way, way, way overdue.
      I’m also pretty sure they’re well aware of past ills (some still present) in MoBIE.
      The only thing that surprises me is that they haven’t seen fit to do with MoBIE what they’re doing with MPI.
      It hasn’t just been the Labour Inspectorate, but also other agencies under MoBIE (such as INZ)

        • OnceWasTim 10.1.1.1

          Agreed!. Don’t get me started!
          I have two long files of various LI and INZ failings and fuckups.
          Immigration lawyers (the genuine ones), unions, NGOs and others have been trying to draw attention to the problems now for years.

          And the new coalition government fairly quickly recognised the need for more LI inspectors given all the breaches and slave labour conditions that had been reported in media – announcing an increase in numbers in early November, YET the LI National Manager was spouting off that they had sufficient only a few weeks beforehand.

          Restructuring can be difficult, but unless there are some forceful messages given to some Senior managers, it might be better to pull agencies out from under the aegis of MoBIE and operate them standalone in the interim.

          • JC 10.1.1.1.1

            It’s got me going Tim..

            “A spokeswoman for the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment said it took “the exploitation of workers very seriously” and was working hard to stop the practice.

            Simmons said the New Zealand response to problems on fishing boats was poorly co-ordinated, with police, Department of Labour, Ministry for Primary Industries and Maritime NZ working to different briefs. “…

            http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/344987/absconding-men-probably-desperate-to-leave-vessel

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/68739974/slavery-on-nz-seas-rape-bonded-labour-and-abuse-widespread-on-fishing-boats

            The 3 Vietmanese were Captured Tuesday and deported by INZ on Thursday! No legal assistance even though offered pro bono.

            • OnceWasTim 10.1.1.1.1.1

              “A spokeswoman for the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment said it took “the exploitation of workers very seriously” and was working hard to stop the practice.”

              Except that MoBIE has the wrong organisational culture and focus, and that’s become evident in the way it has resourced the Labour Inspectorate and INZ over the years. It has turned immigration into a business – in order to keep the necessary churn for PTEs, others requiring labour, and shoddy immigration consultancies.

              Check out its organisational structure and the backgrounds of its gNat appointees. I’m now convinced it has been working as designed (by Steven Joyce – even though he may not have realised the problems that are now haunting us).

              Then there’s this doozy from a Cabinet Paper at the time of its creation (Steven Joyce and Jonathan Coleman who have such spectacular records):
              “If real or perceived conflicts of objective within the Ministry’s role (for example, social vs. economic objectives; employer vs. worker perspectives; producer vs. consumer interests) are not managed, there is a risk that the new Ministry will not fully realise its benefits and will not be sustainable over time. This risk will be managed through organisational design and diligent management”.

              Well I think we all now know what their intended benefits were, (and they’re to do with business growth growth growth and exploitation), that organisation design is a complete bugger’s muddle, and there must be a new definition of diligent management

      • The Chairman 10.1.2

        @ OnceWasTim

        No doubt they are aware of it. And to be fair, the Minister has issued a warning. Moreover, as you say, they plan to beef up the inspectors.

        However, will they get on top of it on time? The Minister is going to start announcing expenditure on new projects before Christmas. The last thing the Government needs is headlines reporting employers funded by the taxpayer are breaching employment standards, thus exploiting their employees.

        • OnceWasTim 10.1.2.1

          So far @The Chairman, the Minister(s) APPEARS to have more confidence in MoBIE officials than I do (and probably you – even though I suspect our politics might be eons apart).
          On the other hand, I’m pretty bloody sure (as ‘the Minister(s) responsible’ come(s) to realise who has been responsible for various impediments in progressing new policy [going forward, of course], …….. he/they may get his/their dander up).
          The MPI problem was a little more obvious. Then of course Rome wasn’t built in a day, and there are fuckups galore to have to deal with.
          MoBIE would hopefully be 2nd or 3rd on the list (that Munstry for Everything dressed up in drag). There’s MSD, Health, Education, Land Transport, some of the SOE’s, etc., etc.

    • Graeme 10.2

      Back in the day when we had the old NZ Forest Service, the department provided leadership and training to the industry, so dodgy practices weren’t allowed to flourish.

      Hopefully the re-establishment of the department will reintroduce this role into the industry.

      The old NZFS certainly needed reform, but in killing it totally we lost a lot of vital functions that we as a country and economy, and especially those working in the industry desperately need now.

  11. Sovereignty, freedom & democracy is under threat here. A good article worth reading here. Its our freedoms going under threat.
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/12/02/trade-minister-david-parker-must-intervene-over-sudden-and-bizarre-de-registration-of-anti-tppa-ngos/#comment-409789
    Says Professor Jane Kelsey.
    The bizarre de-registration of anti-WTO NGOs
    By Prof Jane Kelsey / December 2, 2017 /
    Yesterday I wrote to Trade Minister David Parker asking him to intervene urgently over the sudden and bizarre de-registration of representatives of prominent NGOs who had been accredited to attend the World Trade Organization ministerial conference from 10 to 13 December in Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Parker is one of four vice-chairs of the eleventh WTO ministerial conference (MC11). To his credit he moved immediately. Vitalis Vangelis, the deputy head of MFAT responsible for these issues emailed back that:
    “The Minister has asked me to underline to you that we absolutely share your concern that this is a very troubling development. The Minister has also told me to formally and urgently instruct our WTO Mission in Geneva to take this up as a priority with the WTO Secretariat, including to clarify what has happened – and quickly. A Formal Message (ie an instruction to the Mission) is being sent tonight to that effect.”

  12. joe90 12

    Keeper

    Trickle Down Economics
    Trickle Down Economic
    Trickle Down Economi
    Trickle Down Econom
    Trickle Down Econo
    Trickle Down Econ
    Trickle Down Eco
    Trickle Down Ec
    Trickle Down E
    Trickle Dow
    Trickle Do
    Trickle D
    Trickl
    Trick

    Lance Ulanoff (@LanceUlanoff) December 2, 2017

  13. newsense 14

    Shane Jones blaming the poor and getting wide spread coverage.
    And note above the forestry work stuff.
    FFS

  14. Barfly 15

    Did I just c Shane Jones throwing a hospital pass to Grant Robertson on National tv…ffs prepare better man

  15. eco maori 16

    I read a article that Sir Peter gluckman put out and it was very promising for our science in NZ. The sad part is some people have a hard time working out the truth here’s how I figure that out. First Id check that there are no conflicts of interest buy the author. 2 I use logic to analyse the article if the claim is not logical well that’s a no 3 I use math to analyse the percentage of scientists are for and against the artcail 4 I use social media
    To check what the people say I usually made up my mind before this Ka pai
    Many thanks to the 90% of kiwi who no science is good for US I say that science is essential for US to survive this tragic future that the wealth could impose on us. I will not stop trying to steer us to a sustainable humane future for our mokos.
    PS I think that Elon Mus idea about sending a Tesla car into space will promote sustainability and solar and electricik cars but I’m a bit biased in Mus favour lol Ka kite ano.

  16. Mickey Boyle 17

    Anyone been on Stuff lately?, the comment sections are unbelievably one sided, and yes I do realise im saying this in this little echo chamber we call TS, but youd think a national media website like this would be a bit more discrete in their biases.

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