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Open mike 03/02/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 3rd, 2012 - 131 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

131 comments on “Open mike 03/02/2012”

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  1. Pete George 1
    3 February 2012 at 7:18 am

    Is Waitangi Day supposed to be a national day of celebration? Or has it just become entrenched as a day of protest opportunism? A symbol of grievance, not unity?

    Does Waitangi Day fill you with patriotic pride?

    Or do you roll your eys and wonder what protest popups will piss on it?

    • IrishBill 1.1
      3 February 2012 at 7:34 am

      My god you’re banal.

      • Pete George 1.1.1
        3 February 2012 at 7:52 am

        Banal is an odd accusation.

        I hardly think it’s banal when what is supposed to be a national day of celebration is degraded by rent-a-mob.

        I’d guess that most New Zealanders either don’t give a shit about Waitangi Day (except for enjoying a holiday some years) or get the shits about the inevitable shit stirring. That’s a sad state.

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1
          3 February 2012 at 7:54 am

          I hardly think it’s banal when what is supposed to be a national day of celebration is degraded by rent-a-mob.

          PG, your banal claims of degradation is what is banal.

        • Pascal's bookie 1.1.1.2
          3 February 2012 at 8:10 am

          Pete, are you saying that Waitangi Day should be the day of the year that we all forget about what the treaty said and just pretend that it’s been honoured and everything’s peachy? that it should be the day when one partner in that treaty should STFU so that the rest of us can feel good about ourselves?

          That’d be a pretty fucking ironic way to go about things.

          • Pete George 1.1.1.2.1
            3 February 2012 at 8:45 am

            Waitangi Day should be a day of commemoration of the Treaty and what it now means. That will mean debate and greivance in the forseeable future.

            It would be good to also have a national day of celebration and pride. Maybe we need to create a day for that. Like a New Zealand Day?

            • daveo 1.1.1.2.1.1
              3 February 2012 at 9:23 am

              Racist.

            • marty mars 1.1.1.2.1.2
              3 February 2012 at 11:07 am

              No one’s stopping you having your big party platitude pete – go hard, crack a beer, tell a few jokes… meanwhile the people you slur will continue working towards equality and a fairer society for all.

              • Pete George …
                3 February 2012 at 11:14 am

                I’m not the one trying to turn Waitangi Day at Waitangi into a slurfest.

                Daveo – yes, some of those seeking media attention at Waitangi could be seen as rascist.

                • Pascal's bookie …
                  3 February 2012 at 12:29 pm

                  how is saying that waitangi should be a day of celebration,
                  and implying that those who disagree aren’t getting into the spirit of it
                  or what the fuck ever it is you are saying,
                  not trying to start a slur fest?

                    • Pete George …
                      3 February 2012 at 1:15 pm

                      No surprise that Mana want to talk up a hostile reception for Key.

                      It must be very frustrating for those trying to organise a “peaceful family-oriented celebration” at Waitangi to have all the media and protest addicts take all the attention.

                      My points are, should we accept that Waitangi Day is going to always be a focus of dissent and protest, and should we have an alternate day for all New Zealanders to enjoy? Or just not bother with some sort of collective celebration of our country?

                    • Pascal's bookie …
                      3 February 2012 at 1:37 pm

                      Thing is Pete, Waitangi day could be the day you want it to be, but it can’t get there by pretending everything is peachy. Sort out the shit, and it won’t be shitty, and we’ll have aday that we can feel good about ouselves in a way that means something.

                    • Pascal's bookie …
                      3 February 2012 at 1:40 pm

                      And can you honestly not see that complaining that Waitangi day isn’t treated as a celebratory love in congratulating pakeha on their awesomeness is actually pretty fucking offensive?

                      Does the blindness in that somehow slip past you?

                    • Pete George …
                      3 February 2012 at 2:00 pm

                      I’m not trying to pretend anything. I’m pointing out that many people are fed up with the attention seeking protests at Waitangi each year.

                      “a celebratory love in congratulating pakeha on their awesomeness ”

                      Does the making stuff up in that somehow slip past you?

                • marty mars …
                  3 February 2012 at 12:40 pm

                  yes you are but you are not very good at it – judging others by how you see yourself methinks – all those lines about piss and shit – save it for your party when you’re reciting your tired jokes pete I’m sure you and your mate will have a big laugh at the expence of others

          • felix 1.1.1.2.2
            3 February 2012 at 12:15 pm

            Why can’t the rich white straight men have just ONE day where they get to have THEIR say for a change?

            • Pete George 1.1.1.2.2.1
              3 February 2012 at 1:21 pm

              I suppose they could if they wanted to, but they probably wouldn’t try it here.

              Why can’t all New Zealand celebrate a day in common?

              Anzac Day comes closest but it is not so much a celebration, it is in Remembrance of past sacrifices, which is important.

              Queens ‘Birthday’ is a bit farcical. Labour Day is just Holiday Day. I think it would be good if we could have something here like Independence Day or Australia Day.

              Maybe we’re just not mature enough as a country for that yet.

              • Pascal's bookie …
                3 February 2012 at 1:35 pm

                What’s mature about a rah rah meaningless pat yourself on the back?

                • felix …
                  3 February 2012 at 3:03 pm

                  I guess Pete uses “mature” in the same sense as he uses “sensible” and “centrist”.

              • Enough is Enough …
                3 February 2012 at 2:17 pm

                I tend to agree with you Pete in terms of celebrating being a New Zealander.

                Waitangi day is what it is and will remain that until Maori achieve equality with their treaty partners in law and in society.

                I would do away with Queens Birthday and create Aotearoa Day. A day that we stop and celebrate being Kiwi. There are many things wrong with this country but they are far outweighed by all the things that are right. We never really reflect on that as a country. Surely for one day a year we can come together and forget about our differences and celebrate the one thing we all have in common. Living in a fucking great country.

                • Pete George …
                  3 February 2012 at 3:12 pm

                  Yes, it would be good if we could find something we can all come together and celebrate on. I’d be happy calling it Aotearoa Day but I suspect that wouldn’t be universally popular.

                  But realistically I’m not sure it could happen judging by the level of attacks here for daring suggest it.

                  • felix …
                    3 February 2012 at 4:04 pm

                    Why don’t you take the 364 days that aren’t Waitangi day and use those to celebrate being wealthy and white and part of the power structure built on the very wrongs that the Waitangi protests are attempting to draw your dulled attention to?

                  • framu …
                    3 February 2012 at 4:08 pm

                    “I’d be happy calling it Aotearoa Day but I suspect that wouldn’t be universally popular.”

                    why wouldnt it be popular? Is it because its a maori word?

                  • Hateatea …
                    3 February 2012 at 4:36 pm

                    I haven’t seen an attack on you for wanting an ‘Aotearoa’ Day. Just leave us Waitangi Day please. It may annoy you that there is protest there but there is nothing to stop tauiwi protesting there as far as I know.

                    • ropata …
                      3 February 2012 at 11:18 pm

                      Pay no attention to the concern troll. Waitangi Day is already awesome, there is gonna be a big party up North just like last year. But the only thing you will see on the news is protests and scary looking brown dudes

              • fender …
                3 February 2012 at 4:13 pm

                Oh yeah Pete Australia Day is a fantastic day for the Aborigines too. Yes its great to have a day where the colonialists celebrate all the damage past and present inflicted upon the indigenous people.
                So what you are saying Pete is that no matter what the rich and powerful inflict upon you, steal from you etc. you should just forget it and join in with a fake celebration. Get real PG, I actually thought there was a few more brains in your head than you have shown us today.

              • mik e …
                4 February 2012 at 11:38 am

                Pompous Git until Maori hold high place in their homeland instead of being at the bottom of the heap protests will go on simple something you tiny brain should be able to figure out .Your so much like your leader stating the obvious reeling out boring old arguments that NZ will never move on until idiots like you read the real hisTory of new Zealand.

            • Vicky32 1.1.1.2.2.2
              3 February 2012 at 6:50 pm

              Why can’t the rich white straight men have just ONE day where they get to have THEIR say for a change?

              I don’t go a bomb on what PG has to say, but the way you’re all ganging up on him is making me sicker than I already am (and according to the neurologist at Auckland City I am actually not all that crash hot)…
              It reminds me of the gang beatings I have had in the past, and that made me despise this place. There are some people, in some groups that it just is not safe to offend or upset. Never has anonymity seemed so valuable! 🙁

              • felix …
                3 February 2012 at 7:01 pm

                I agree it’s unfair.

                When are the rich white straight men going to catch a break in this world?

              • marty mars …
                3 February 2012 at 8:36 pm

                I think pete likes offending and upsetting people – but not all people, just ‘some’ people.

                Waitangi protestors, the target of pete today, also direct their actions to ‘some’ people, but the difference is that they are working to make our society better, fairer and more equal.

                BTW I hope your health improves.

        • Vicky32 1.1.1.3
          3 February 2012 at 6:40 pm

          I’d guess that most New Zealanders either don’t give a shit about Waitangi Day …

          I admit I don’t… (but then QoT has already labelled me a racist, and as we all know, there’s no defence against that accusation. *)
          Years back, in the 1970s, protestors shouted “F*** the Treaty, it’s a fraud, we want nothing to do with it!”
          Years later, in the 80s and beyond, the protestors said the exact opposite – “Honour the Treaty, we love it and we want it”.
          I am just a stupid evil White bitch, (or so I’ve been told.) I know nothing.
           
           
          * For his/her benefit – the evil-ex (Maori, but the point s/he missed it he’d have been evil regardless of race – he was an alcoholic) died about 7 weeks back.

          • felix 1.1.1.3.1
            3 February 2012 at 6:50 pm

            I remember the catchcry “the treaty is a fraud” too. What do you think was meant by that?

        • mik e 1.1.1.4
          4 February 2012 at 11:32 am

          Pompous Git for an odd person

    • millsy 1.2
      3 February 2012 at 8:02 am

      Every country must have a starting point, and like it or not, I guess the signing of that Treaty was that starting point.

      Though I am concerned about how we are in such a hurry to settle old greivances, we are creating new ones, with the systematic shifting of conservation land into iwi hands, for them to restrict access. And lets not forget Tuhoe’s desire to get their hands on Te Uruwera National Park, which will almost see New Zealanders having to pay big bucks to enjoy something that everyone should be able to enjoy.

    • muzza 1.3
      3 February 2012 at 8:22 am

      Old age kicking in Pete – Or are you just being deliberately fucken idiotic!

      I for one applaud the protestors, and given the past weeks actions by government, would expect this year to be heated.

      What have we really got to celebrate Pete, the rape of the country by ancestors of dick heads like you!

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 1.3.1
        3 February 2012 at 9:51 am

        There is nothing to celebrate about being a New Zealander? Nothing?

        • Hateatea 1.3.1.1
          3 February 2012 at 9:58 am

          Celebrating being a New Zealander is something I do every day but I don’t see Waitangi Day as a day on which one celebrates Te Tiriti but rather a day to commemorate and reflect on what might have been and what still may come to pass. Then again, that is just me

      • Rob 1.3.2
        3 February 2012 at 2:07 pm

        Classic , now Muzza is accusing Pete of rape and tortue, you can’t make this shit up.

    • Hateatea 1.4
      3 February 2012 at 8:37 am

      Speaking for myself, I commemorate, not celebrate.

      Until The Crown (Her Majesty’s NZ Government) not only settle old grievances in a meaningful manner, then stick to the contracts that have been negotiated as part of those settlements as well as honouring the original Treaty, I have no reason to celebrate.

      I seem to remember someone calculating that it took less than a week for the Crown to breach the Ngai Tahu Settlement

      • millsy 1.4.1
        3 February 2012 at 9:39 am

        Iwi are just as bad at breaking settlement terms.

        Most conservation land that is handed back to iwi comes with strict conditions around public access, however, iwi have known to wait for a few months and then block it off. The Port Nicholson Block Settlement is an example, where access to several lagoons have been restricted.

        • Hateatea 1.4.1.1
          3 February 2012 at 4:38 pm

          ‘Iwi are just as bad at breaking settlement terms.’

          Examples, please, or was this just more iwi bashing 

    • Ianupnorth 1.5
      3 February 2012 at 11:32 am

      Go away – please PG and never come back!

      • Vicky32 1.5.1
        3 February 2012 at 7:01 pm

        Go away – please PG and never come back!

        How if I said the same to you? Oh, the indignation would break out then! Lovely man, aren’t you? So sweet and tolerant – not!!!!
         

    • McFlock 1.6
      3 February 2012 at 2:45 pm

       
      Is Pete George supposed to be raising a valid issue? Or has he just become entrenched as an attention-seeking linkwhore?
      Does Pete George fill you with patriotic pride?
      Or do you roll your eyes and wonder when he will actually say or do something that matters a damn?

  2. Colonial Viper 2
    3 February 2012 at 7:58 am

    How money corrupts the US Congress

    Scary, scary, stuff. And these very established practices and globalised methods are coming here.

    http://fora.tv/2012/01/17/How_Money_Corrupts_Congress_and_a_Plan_to_Stop_It

    • ianmac 2.1
      3 February 2012 at 10:26 am

      Yes CV. We do have a limit to the length of the Election. And we nearly have transparency about funding. But it does appear that the few very rich control the direction of decision making.
      Maybe the case is waiting to be made for a Public Funding, so that Government is not corrupted (any more.)
      A long listen but some parallels with NZ. All for Root Hacking rather than Partisan arguments.

      Do you think that in all this is a cause for Voter Apathy in NZ?

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1
        3 February 2012 at 1:07 pm

        I think that there are a few factors leading to citizen apathy (voter apathy being only a symptom of citizen apathy).

        Time and information poverty for the majority is an issue. Pervasive framing by the Right Wing that business is the solution and government is the problem is an issue. A lack of civics education is an issue. A distant complex self serving bureaucracy is an issue. The ideology of individualism and not understanding how broader societal and economic structures affect personal income and lifestyles is an issue. A set of politicians who seem to all sound and look the same is an issue.

        EDIT a lack of perspective of 20th century NZ history, especially of social and worker struggles, is also an issue.

  3. The Chairman 3
    3 February 2012 at 9:07 am

    Joyce is trying to lead a debate to gain greater acceptance of foreign investmen

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10783089

    • ianmac 3.1
      3 February 2012 at 10:31 am

      Perhaps they feel stung by public reaction? By the way how will the Crafar sale be an investment in NZ rather than a payment to Wespac?

    • Draco T Bastard 3.2
      3 February 2012 at 12:29 pm

      There aren’t any. We have the resources here to do whatever we want and the only thing that’s holding us back is a socio-economic system that accumulates the control of the wealth into the hands of the few. Money, a non-resource, from over seas won’t change that.

    • aerobubble 3.3
      3 February 2012 at 1:54 pm

      By having a non-policy policy? And at every opportunity show how sniviling and cowtowing Keys govt is?

  4. Lanthanide 4
    3 February 2012 at 9:39 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/6358098/New-IRD-system-costs-1b

    Lets see, tax cuts for rich people or spend a small fraction of that money on ensuring we can properly collect taxes in the future?

  6. randal 6
    3 February 2012 at 9:57 am

    sorry but you are already f*cked.
    get over it.

    • The Gormless and Gobsmacked Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrel 6.1
      3 February 2012 at 10:35 am

      Still not found the reply button, I see, randal.

  7. prism 7
    3 February 2012 at 9:57 am

    RIP another NZ business owing $11 million. In business since 1964, employing 180 people.
    from stuff business – business and KordaMentha
    Receivers KordaMentha were called into Auckland-based Criterion Group and its New Zealand and Australian subsidiaries on Tuesday. About 180 staff are affected.
    Their appointment followed a “serious decline in trading” for the group, the receivers said.
    It exports around 70 per cent of its production to North America, South America, Europe, Singapore and the Pacific Islands.

    I don’t think that the politicians and economic advisors and company directors understand about the business of making things, and how important it is. They quote the stats about the myriad of small businesses forming the important other sector with earnings not arising from the land.

    The lawyers, financial advisors, even the managerial class are service providers only making a good living out of a thriving economy (except recently where a business gains ‘face’ by paying top cash to the top people, and then to avoid losing ‘face’ pay more cash when those top people lead the business into a decline.)

  8. Monique Watson 8
    3 February 2012 at 10:04 am

    ha ha PG. I have a friend who’s worst insult is to call someone ‘banal’. Card carrying lefty too. I reckon we should keep Waitangi Day, get rid of the Queen’s Birthday and have a New Zealand day. Or have an extra public holiday.

    You’s guys gonna take the fight to Hekia?

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/02/good-luck-luv-youll-be-needing-it.html

    You a gamer PG? Check out my profile.

    • millsy 8.1
      3 February 2012 at 10:46 am

      Youre a pretty nasty person Monique. I have a feeling that you are of these women who sit in a cafe and run down all and sundry while being all nice to their faces.

      You give me that vibe. Youre a nasty nasty bitchy woman. I can tell.

    • Pete George 8.2
      3 February 2012 at 10:57 am

      The only gaming I do is on blogs. I won’t try to describe my roles as I’d just be struck down by opposing Forces of Banality.

      One of my games is wordplay. It was interesting that IB introduced the word ‘banal’ – that comes from Old French banel – ‘pertaining to a ban’.

      Another definition is ‘ pertaining to compulsory feudal service ‘. While not compulsory one can get the impression of attempts at imposing serfdom here by the overlords. At least banal doesn’t seem to be banned.

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.1
        3 February 2012 at 1:16 pm

        Or a definition more relevant to you: fucking pointless, boring, unimaginative and insubstantive.

        • marty mars 8.2.1.1
          3 February 2012 at 1:38 pm

          my concise oxford has a good definition – ‘trite, feeble’ and interestingly it sits between ban and banana – nice universe humour in the context of this discussion

    • fender 8.3
      3 February 2012 at 4:43 pm

      Should that be:
      You a lamer PG? Check out my profile ?

  9. prism 9
    3 February 2012 at 10:10 am

    I can’t edit my previous comment, straight after I have put it up. The stats of the numbers of small businesses are quoted and we know they are so important, yet they are abandoned whenever the government chooses to make changes. One example of abandonment is after the Christchurch earthquake. There seemed little co-operation with the businesses affected, with explanation of the known and unknown risks in daily briefings in a venue large enough to cater for all and whiteboards where info could be presented even if there was no electricity.

    And these are the wealth creators, that phrase which comes to the lips of politicians so often, spoken of but too small to be able to offer quid pro quo, or tit for tat, no doubt.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.1
      3 February 2012 at 12:51 pm

      No, small businesses aren’t the “wealth creators” that the politicians speak of. The “wealth creators” that politicians speak of are the rich parasites and the name is pure misdirection.

    • Colonial Viper 9.2
      3 February 2012 at 1:38 pm

      SME’s better get it into their little heads that NAT is here to represent the corporates and the multimillionaires, and if you are a small enterprise they are quite happy to leave you twisting in the wind.

  11. prism 11
    3 February 2012 at 10:30 am

    When I press Home to refresh my page it seems to take me back some time not bring me up to date. The index shows at the top lprent POAL sleeze each time I press Home – if that’s helpful to know.

    • lprent 11.1
      3 February 2012 at 11:44 am

      Usually that is a problem with the local browser’s cache. For instance I get that type of issue when I use the back button on safari on my iPad (and bloody annoying it is as well). You could look at turning off the browser cache to test if it is just that. The site sends instructions about what should be cached and what should not. But some of the browsers ignore or misinterpret…

      I just tried reproducing your diagnostic on linux with chrome and firefox and didn’t get it. Give me some more details – OS / Browser.

      However we’re currently running on an apache2 mode that I have never used before after the outage on wednesday. I have no idea what effect it has on the cache modules that are also loaded at the server side. I will be testing my way back to my usual configuration this weekend.

    • Colonial Viper 11.2
      3 February 2012 at 1:18 pm

      I had the same problem as Prism this morning but it seems to have sorted itself.

  12. just saying 12
    3 February 2012 at 11:07 am

    http://www.thepoliticalscientist.org/

    Key losing control.

    Well worth reading – puddleglum’s latest (above)

    Raises interesting questions…

    • Treetop 12.1
      3 February 2012 at 11:41 am

      What a train wreck flogging off power assets are proving to be and already there appears to be a blow out in the cost, (potential litigation of treaty rights and rightly so). I seem to recall the figure of 100 million to sell money earning power assets and what will they sell for?

      2012 is going to be the year when all the figures do not add up. Bring on the budget I say.

    • Draco T Bastard 12.2
      3 February 2012 at 12:56 pm

      You mean this one? Just linking to the blog home page fails to indicate which article you’re talking about.

      • just saying 12.2.1
        3 February 2012 at 6:20 pm

        When I click your link Draco, and when I click mine, they take me to exactly the same place – the beginning of the particular blog I’m mentioning.

        Where does clicking my link take you?

        Maybe this is a browser thing, you’ve made the same comment before, and I’ve clicked both links and ‘snap’. How do you go about linking to a blog or story from somewhere else? If there is a quick *F-key* shortcut I’d be glad to learn it.

        • lprent 12.2.1.1
          3 February 2012 at 6:50 pm

          Nope. Draco’s one takes you to the post – if you scroll down you’ll find you can add comments.

          Your one takes to the front page – which just happens to look the same right now. However as soon as they put in a new post (tonight?), noone will have any idea what you were talking about when they click the link.

  13. Ianupnorth 13
    3 February 2012 at 11:35 am

    So Blinglish refused to front on breakfast TV to talk about the latest treasury report. Normal service has resumed.

  14. Willie Maley 14
    3 February 2012 at 11:42 am

    Ahem!
    http://tiny.cc/v83a0
    And this from a right wing rag.

  16. ropata 16
    3 February 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Bernard Hickey recent tweets

    bernardchickey
    Oh and by the way. Record net migration to Australia of 36,900 in 2011 (100/day) bit.ly/xYlWQd NZ economic policy not working
    19 minutes ago

    bernardchickey
    Is this the path to greatness for NZ? Foreign debt funded property boom for the wealthiest? That pushes up NZ$? Just nuts.
    24 minutes ago

    bernardchickey
    Govt borrows money from China, hands it to wealthiest via tax cuts, who then borrow more and buy bigger houses bit.ly/zDJRKw
    25 minutes ago

  17. Salsy 17
    3 February 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Labour cracks 30% despite doing nothing except losing Goff.

    • Colonial Viper 17.1
      3 February 2012 at 1:39 pm

      Two months too late that one.

    • The Voice of Reason 17.2
      3 February 2012 at 2:50 pm

      Here’s the kicker though: “However, support for the full National-led Government has dipped to 49% (down 0.5%), trailing the Opposition Parties (51%, up 0.5%).”
       
      How close was that election, eh? A couple of points would have done it. Still, the good news is the Tories and their support poodles are on the wrong side of the ledger for the first time in 4 years and David Shearer is looking good to be PM sooner rather than later.
       
      Can we have a snap election, please John? Hawaii’s nice this time of year.

      • Chris 17.2.1
        3 February 2012 at 4:42 pm

        Couple of points assuming Peters would’ve gone with Labour which is a big assumption.

        Being in opposition doesn’t automatically mean that they would’ve formed a government

        • The Voice of Reason 17.2.1.1
          3 February 2012 at 6:58 pm

          Tru ‘nuf, Chris. But Labour does have experience running minority Gov’ts and Winston isn’t going to forget that National condemned him to 3 years in the wilderness. He’d be odds on for a C&S agreement of some kind just to be able to stick it to the Nats, but if he is going to make good on his election promises, realistically, he has to come to an arrangement with Labour and the Greens.
           
          Or he might just stick two fingers up again and offer to take over from the Maori Party as John’s new BFF. He’s got form in that area already, so who knows?
           
          Either way, seems the tide is going out on Key.

  18. Fisiani 18
    3 February 2012 at 1:15 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/columnists/chris-trotter/6356378/Our-hands-were-tied-over-the-Crafar-farms-sale

    So roll up and call Trotter a traitor for speaking the truth just like Fran o’Sullivan.

    • McFlock 18.1
      3 February 2012 at 2:29 pm

      Who the hell thinks trotter is a paragon of the left wing anymore? He might have a slightly leftist emplyment policy, but his blogs on “identity politics” and how women and anyone else with an issue should toe the line and not endanger the Labour vote put him squarely in the camp of social conservatives.
       

    • felix 18.2
      3 February 2012 at 3:25 pm

      Yeah he’s probably got more in common with your lot these days Fisi.

  19. randal 19
    3 February 2012 at 1:40 pm

    call you an idiot for mangling the oranges and the apples.

  20. Fortran 20
    3 February 2012 at 1:49 pm

    I see that Farrer in Dominion today the polls give the balance of power to Winston Peters.
    Nats dropped and Labour up and with other lefties are only one seat behind Nat/Coalition, giving Winston the baubles if an election were held today. How big will his baubles be I wonder – huge, remember he is very selfish, so perhaps Finance, although Norman has bagged that, Foreign Affairs, and he has a few of those.
    Makes you wonder – with continued great shit stirring out of Waitangi, Christchurch in revolt, seems a good time to let Key know he’s on his way out.

  21. aerobubble 21
    3 February 2012 at 1:55 pm

    A cat is purchased, and trained, the trainer is not the owner
    and the trainer becomes an attraction in their own right, and
    becomes wealthy. The cats need to be trained extensively and
    can not be easily replaced, yet are also an attraction in their
    own right. The act performed is highly dangerous and has already
    caused the death of one keeper, and there is some doubt over
    whether the entry into the enclosure should even be allowed.
    Due to family bonds some dispute over ownership of the cats
    have arisen. Are the cats family pets? Are they trained animals? Or
    are they as it looks like an attraction of a zoo primarily?
    Should the cats be split up, those that have not be strongly
    trained remain at the park as a going concern, and the trainer
    take some of the cats and passes onwership of the land back over
    as a consideration for past financial investment?
    Or should government step in and appoint an independant manager,
    ban any member of this disfunctional family from ever having
    any access to these wild animals? For if they are an asset of
    the businesses of either party then surely the businesses can
    fire the employees and hire new staff who can carry out their
    function.
    Maybe government could even speak to the highly dangerous
    ‘circus act’ of entering the cage? Since at the core its
    the personal affections of the protagonists to the cats
    that ellicts all the destruction of value in the brands.
    The Lion park and the Lion Man.
    But on a personal note, who owns the family pet? The
    unpaided person who attends to its needs, or the business
    owner who sells tickets to see both do a dangerous
    circus act? If I buy a Bear, get someone to train it to
    wear a dress and shit on command, and the trainer makes
    a name for themselves, does the Bear become their property,
    even where it clearly states at the entrance to the ‘Bear’ Park.

  22. Jackal 22
    3 February 2012 at 2:38 pm

    I’m having a bit of trouble deciding if Bowalley Road should be included in the Leftwing Blog… because old trots seems decidedly right wing these days… Slater keeps quoting him for one thing. Trotter used to be leftist when he wrote for the Listener back in the day, but he has soured over the years. So should he stay or should he go?

    • Pete George 22.1
      3 February 2012 at 3:04 pm

      Stay – if you think any common sense fits in on the left.

      • Jackal 22.1.1
        3 February 2012 at 4:04 pm

        Considering your track record there Pete George, I think I ‘d better count that as a vote against old Trots.

        • Vicky32 22.1.1.1
          3 February 2012 at 7:12 pm

          Considering your track record there Pete George, I think I ‘d better count that as a vote against old Trots.

          So, I see that Trotter has joined the hate list… why?

          • Pete George 22.1.1.1.1
            3 February 2012 at 7:21 pm

            Because…

            At the risk of being branded a “traitor”, I’m declaring my support for the Crafar farms sale. Not because I like seeing productive New Zealand farmland pass into the hands of foreigners, I don’t.

            The reason I’m in favour is because I believe New Zealanders should keep their promises and fulfil their undertakings.

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/columnists/chris-trotter/6356378/Our-hands-were-tied-over-the-Crafar-farms-sale

            And even worse, Whale oil agreed with him, so that makes him another enemy of the day.

            • McFlock 22.1.1.1.1.1
              3 February 2012 at 7:38 pm

              Nah, it happened a good couple of years ago now. When he started arguing that the “left” should bend over and be more cooperative with tories, and on no account should women, homosexuals, or Maori put that relationship at risk by being all activisty and uppity.
                 
              He’s been the tories’ token “lefty” for ages, getting wheeled out for a nice unchallenging “left perspective”.
                
              Just another thing you know fuck-all about,pete.

  23. james 111 23
    3 February 2012 at 2:58 pm

    You have to love Chris Trotters comments on the Crafar farm sales .How it reeks of hypocrisy for David Shearer to now be crticising it. Prediction as soon as Shearer starts debating in the house he is going to get eaten alive by the National front bench comments from trotter below

    In 2008, this country ratified a free-trade agreement with the People’s Republic of China. It was hailed as the most important foreign policy and trade achievement of the 1999-2008 Helen Clark-led government. Not only was it the first such agreement to be signed between China and a Western-style democracy, but it also offered New Zealand businesses immense economic opportunities. …

    It was all the more perplexing, then, to hear Opposition leader David Shearer declaring his and the Labour Party’s opposition to the sale. It’s simply inconceivable that Mr Shearer is unaware of the MFN prohibition against denying China the same right to buy land as the nations that bought upwards of 650,000 hectares of our national patrimony exercised when Helen Clark was Prime Minister, and Mr Shearer’s friend (and former boss) Phil Goff was the Minister of Trade.

    • ianmac 23.1
      3 February 2012 at 3:40 pm

      The Chinese under the FTA must be treated equally with all others and not disadvantaged in a deal compared with others. But this means if all land sales to foreigners were banned then Chinese would not be treated any differently. Ban all sales to nonresidents above a certain size.
      At some point we must say “Enough! No more land sales.”
      Hope it is by then not too late?

    • Draco T Bastard 23.2
      3 February 2012 at 5:38 pm

      They do have the same right and we have the same right to tell them to stuff off. Just because the OIO has been pretty much a rubber stamp process for the last few years doesn’t mean that it has to stay that way.

  24. randal 24
    3 February 2012 at 3:09 pm

    so what clause is it that contains the free trade in land?

  25. Bored 25
    3 February 2012 at 3:17 pm

    Fisi and James111, if either of you had the reading and comprehension ability of a preschooler and the wit to understand what Trotter wrote, you would come very quickly to the conclusion that he is calling a spade a spade. He is a leftist accusing his side of playing on the right for to long. Labour and its supporters don’t need RWNJs like yourselves to point out in some faux triumphalist bullshit way that the wounds are self inflicted.

    Trotter by comparison is pointing out that for Labour it is too late to cry wolf when they signed the deals, and that we as a collective electorate allowed this to happen so we too have no right to complain. What I think he is driving at is that without repudiating their prior stance before the electorate Labour should shut up.

  26. Salsy 26
    3 February 2012 at 5:43 pm

    It’s kind of halarious the way the right are trotting out the xenophobic line against the left. Truth is, they are insulting the 80% of Kiwis who didnt want those farms sold for good reason – there still hasnt been a single argument as to why selling a chunk of the golden goose to the biggest consumer of golden eggs is a good idea . I mean unless you accept Steven Joyces laughingly lame attempt today suggesting Chinese investment will help local communties and create jobs. Okay Stephen, OIO found only two jobs will be created from the Crafar Sale, but PGG Wrightsons may sell more farm supplies. Of course we also know also they are now majority Chinese owned. Abysmally, there no analysis on the impact of competition against our own dairy industry.

    What’s also ironic, is that the claims of xenophobia are sprouting either from resource sucking baby boomers such as the analytic devoid business commentator Fran O’Sullivan, or the politically senile Chris Trotter. But perhaps what is most interesting, is that this accusation has originated from a goverment who have just referrred to our Treaty as largely Symbolic , whose Muldoon supporting leader was pro-springbok , and who sees no issue public making racist and discrimatory jokes about Maori

    But what’s partuclarly telling, is John Key’s supposedly unambigous announcement today regarding Chinese investment in New Zealand, has been now been quickly palmed off to Stephen Joyce . Anyone listening to the interview on RNZ this evening will understand why.

  27. james 111 27
    3 February 2012 at 6:37 pm

    Ian thanks for that wonderful story believe it was written by a left winger in drag. So I guess you have all bases covered then LMFAO

  28. randal 28
    3 February 2012 at 7:05 pm

    james 111 is just waleshit in another incarnation.
    he got multiple multiple personality disorder but he like a friendly idiot.
    every now and then you have to give him a booot.

  29. Jackal 29
    3 February 2012 at 9:31 pm

    Bennett’s bungled numbers

    Despite the introduction of Future Focus, whereby beneficiaries have to adhere to strict conditions or loose their entitlements, people on the unemployment benefit grew by 2158 last month. In a press release today, Bene bashing Bennett does her best to spin the numbers so they don’t look bad, but information attained through the Official Information Act shows the truth of the matter…

  30. Jackal 30
    3 February 2012 at 11:02 pm

    John Key – Asshole of the Week

    Clearly John Key is trying to provoke a spectacle on Waitangi day that will take the focus off National’s plans to privatise state owned assets. National can then claim that the Maori’s are all radicals and therefore not give their concerns the attention they deserve…

  31. ropata 31
    4 February 2012 at 12:15 am

    Seen on facebook recently:

    A special message for the Tea Party : http://is.gd/7A0Imi

    You might be a Socialist!! : http://is.gd/pYNapA

    🙂

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