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Open mike 03/09/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, September 3rd, 2013 - 89 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

89 comments on “Open mike 03/09/2013 ”

  1. vto 1

    So who’s up for it?

    Ban conventional and nuclear warfare in the same manner that chemical warfare is banned.

    It is just an extension of the smacking ban after all.

    • BLiP 1.1

      Can’t ban conventional warfare – the entire US economy would grind to a halt in less than a week.

      • Tracey 1.1.1

        and Russia’s

        • Colonial Viper

          Russia will be fine. US, China and the UK, I’m not so sure.

          • Pete

            Russia is the second largest arms exporter in the world. Every permanent member of the UN Security Council is in the top 10. As far as international law can ban warfare, it has already. Sadly, that’s not enough.

            • Colonial Viper

              Thanks. Per capita it looks to me like Russia is way ahead of the US as an arms exporter.

      • vto 1.1.2

        I heard some chap rabbiting on nat radio last week about the legal parameters of war. It was sickening, and it takes a lot to turn mine stomach.. He was going on as if it is acceptable to wipe out large swathes of humanity in certain circumstances using certain means. It was so way up in the clouds it was bizarre. It got me to thinking that war is absolutely the lowest form of human conduct, which everybody knows but for some reason most people accept.

        People seem to accept state murder of other state’s citizens – code for killing being acceptable.

        It leaves me sick.

        New Zealand should stand up and lead the world in banning all forms of warfare, like it did by going nuclear-free.

        All forms.

        • Molly


          Worthwhile reading for the interest value in the same vein: 10 countries without military forces.

          Particularly liked the reference to Andorra – “Despite not ever having a true organized military, the tiny country of Andorra was bold enough to declare war on Germany in 1914 and join the so called Great War. With a 10-man strong army, the country did not do much and was not taken seriously.

        • Ron

          What is worse is that most of the recent conflicts that New Zealand has been involved with have not been legally declared wars. Vietnam was not a declared war for instance which if I remember correctly caused problems with servicemen that were active in that conflict getting disability allowances etc when they returned because under the war pension act they had technically not been to war. Long tine ago now but there was a lot of angry service people trying to get benefits and being given the run around by the Government of the day.

        • Draco T Bastard

          And what would you do about those that would seek to attack us?

          • vto

            Draco, surely you realise that you should never answer the premier question with answers to the secondary questions.

            First, ban all such warfare. Second, work out how to make that happen, among other things.

            So, how about it? Are you in? Looks like you might be the only taker which leaves me pretty disappointed in Les Standardistas.

            • Colonial Viper

              Like, Draco, I am a supporter of a strong multi-role NZDF, including both offensive and defensive warfighting capabilities.

              • vto

                Sure, me too (on my limited understanding), but you are ignoring the call to a full ban on its use….

              • Chooky

                @CV…where is NZDF offensive warfighting justified?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Today, no where. But the military always has to prepare 10 years ahead, and I am guessing that the Pacific is going to be a pretty tense place down the track.

                  • vto

                    Not if we ban warfare now. It might help. Nothing to lose.

                    Why don’t you want to do such a thing? Do you support the ban on chemical warfare? Where do you draw the line? Why bother going nuclear free? Why is it so hard to stick a flower in the barrel of a tank? Eh?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I think it’ll be as successful as banning homicide…

                    • vto

                      homicide is banned and it prevents more homicides.

                      chemical warfare is banned and it prevents more chemical warfare.

                      you keep avoiding the issue and sliding off it. I know you can see its clarity…. Why are you avoiding saying “I would support banning all warfare”?

                  • Chooky

                    @CV…so you would agree with the American gun lobby that it is a citazen’s right to have a gun….just to be prepared 10 years ahead …. in case…. 10 years down the track….when it could be a pretty tense place

                    …just arguing here and I probably agree with you ….but in theory while these arguments are convincing … in practice people/politicians make mistakes and it can make a situation worse

        • Chooky

          +1vto…those who attack us is a separate question…then we are defending

      • yeshe 1.1.3

        24 hours !

    • Populuxe1 1.2

      And this is sort of why I don’t think that would work:


      • vto 1.2.1

        Thanks Pop, appreciate your effort (I know I get on your goat sometimes..).

        But the reason outlined in your post is a rehash of the arguments up and around this already. The how of such a ban is the secondary question, not the primary one. We need to answer the primary one first, before assessing the how, the when, the what-ifs, etc etc.

        Just like it is with banning nuclear in NZ.
        Just like it is with banning homicide.
        Just like it is with banning chemical warfare.

        Surely you can see the potential in such a ban. Whether it is workable or not is not the issue, just as is so with all other bans. It is a head space, an aim, a lofty high humanitarian goal. Something we can aspire to. And when humans do this sort of thing humanity gets towed along behind to an extent.

        And in the alternative,,, to not so ban is to impliedly condone and employ warfare, in the same manner than debanning homicide or chemical warfare would be such.

        I don’t understand why this is so hard.

        It has been done with chemical. We did it with nuclear. Lets go the whole hog.

        edit: and I do recall that pact now, from dim distant studies…

    • Murray Olsen 1.3

      I’d say it’s worth trying. I’m not sure how it could be done in the immediate future, but wars aren’t good for anything. We’d all be better off without them.

  2. Jenny Kirk 2

    Terrific Leadership Contest meeting in Whangarei last night. All three potential Leaders in good spirits and talking good policy ideas. Over 200 people in audience – heaps of new members signed up.
    This is a good sign for resurgence in Labour Party.

    • Tracey 2.1

      If new folks are signing up does that mean the meetings are open to non members?

      • mickysavage 2.1.1

        If they sign up as members they are entitled to attend but only existing members or those renewing a fairly recent membership can vote.

  3. (do we all know that john key is an acolyte of ayn rand..?..)



    “..ed:..of course the building of this low-wage economy is a pillar of the teachings of keys’ guru..ayn rand..

    ..just about everything john key does/advocates..

    ..can be drawn back to the vile/poisonous teachings/prescriptions of rand..”

    phillip ure..

  4. Steve 4

    It was painful to watch Key bleating about the $68 million he said it would cost the government to implement Labour’s “Living Wage” policy for public employees.

    That’s right a whopping $68 million out of a annual government spend of 92.7 billion (annual government spending year ending June2012).

    So that’s 0.07% of the annual government budget to give New Zealanders a living wage. Not a very high price to pay to help improve the conditions of the working poor.

    That’s if you believe Key’s figures, which I don’t, as opposed to Cunliffe’s $25 million which makes it 0.025%.

    For comparison, Key’s just spent $100 million of our money flogging off a decent asset that most of us don’t want sold.

    The hypocrisy stinks

    • vto 4.1


      It is exactly like Key and Brownlee refusing to top up the red zoners $12.5million in Christchurch while going about spending $300million on a stadium for rich rugby players to run around on a few times a month.

      This shows this government’s priorities.

      Rugby is prioritised over people’s homes
      Sharebrokers commissions are prioritised over paying above a slave wage for cleaners.

      pitooey in their face. pigs.

    • Lanthanide 4.2

      “It was painful to watch Key bleating about the $68 million he said it would cost the government to implement Labour’s “Living Wage” policy for public employees.”

      The $68m is for extending it to direct government employees only, it doesn’t include contractors such as cleaners in hospitals.

      I would think that there aren’t all that many directly-employed government workers earning less tahn $18.40, which is why the wage figure is only $68m.

      • vto 4.2.1

        The other thing is….

        It doesn’t cost the country anything. The money stays entirely within New Zealand and if anything spins a little faster..

        It costs nothing.

        • Colonial Viper

          And you my man, win the prize for today’s heterodox economics and monetary theory understanding.

      • Steve 4.2.2

        which is why the wage figure is only $68m.

        Exactly, only $68 million, so why is Key bleating about it?

        For the record I’d tend to believe Labour’s costing of $25m.

    • Rosie 4.3

      Well said Steve. As well as getting their figures wrong sometimes, they make a huge noise about costs that are trivial in the big picture (your example above)that would benefit society, but brush big bad unnecessary costs (ditto your comparison)under the carpet. It’s a very lumpy carpet they’ve got there.

      And yes, it is painful. I wish there was some way for Key to vanish, to be forced to resign for some reason, so all this pain could end. (not just the bleating sounds)It would have to happen after the new Labour Leader has been elected though.

      Just a fantasy that I’ve harboured since ’08.

  5. Not a PS Staffer 5

    Cunliffe, and the Membership at large, are too nice to Grant Robertson.

    Grant Robertson is a core part of what has been wrong with the Labour Party for the past five years. Robertson is a core member of the narrow group that created division in the party to protect their own careers. Robertson shaped the shambles that has been Shearer’s Leader’s office for the past 18 months. Shearer/King/Mallard/Robertson attacked the membership and Cunliffe for DARING to vote in favour of more democracy at the Ellerslie Conference.

    Robertson has not changed his spots. He is still a natural hoarder of power in the bank office. His instincts are to pay lip service only to the members.
    To elect Robertson is to ask for a continuation of the mis-rule of the past five years.

    Cunliffe has nothing to apologise for. Robertson is the one that should be called to account.

    • Hami Shearlie 5.1


    • Muzza 5.2

      You are correct, Grant is a pathetic human being, his sold out soul hangs bare for all to see.

      Adern, no better!

    • Rogue Trooper 5.3


    • kenny 5.4

      Bang on!

      • Tigger 5.4.1

        BS he’s a pathetic human being. I know him personally. He’s a decent guy and deeply committed to justice and fairness for all. Personal attacks like this are just stupid.

        • Chooky

          @ Tigger ….no matter what you think of Robertson…..if Labour wants to win next year against Key ……Robertson as Leader will not cut the mustard with the average New Zealand voter!!!!….and that is that!

          ….anyone who says otherwise is self-deluded or mischievous….and is laying Labour and New Zealand out for another Key and Nact win.

          Cunliffe is the only Leadership option…. and luckily he is the best option by a long way

          • Alanz

            @ Chooky

            Tigger is discouraging personal attacks and is encouraging people to look at the merits of the candidates.

            Fyi – Tigger’s choice has been stated:

            Open mike 30/08/2013

            • Chooky

              @ Alanz….well if Robertson has been a mover and shaker in the ABC club…IMO I think he should be able to take ‘personal attacks’….because that is what has been concertedly dealt to Cunliffe over along period of time ….and quite unwarrantedly and one could be kind in saying they were “pathetic”…certainly pathetic for the Labour Party.

        • Muzza

          Calling someone a pathetic human being is not a personal attack, in this instance, it is a statement of fact.

          I Have first hand interactions with many pathetic human beings who trawl the halls of parliament, with Robertson, being one them. I also have daily interactions with pathetic human beings, but the conversation was not about anyone else.

          Your experience, and opinion is fine tigger, and my experience and opinion, different from yours, that’s fine, just don’t pretend it was a personal attack, it is my personal opinion, based on my experiences, and based on what is patently obvious about the feeble personality that man has, you can apply the same to Jones, equally pathetic!

    • Chooky 5.5

      Not a PS Staffer…+100

      ….Rhinocrates …who is in Robertson’s Wellington Central electorate is very disparaging and cutting of Robertson ….and it rings true to me …I met a few of the Robertson machaevellian ‘types’ myself while in the Public Service in Wellington( generally in the wannabe upper echelons, that is how they got there…But this is not to disparage the PS in general)…..and I personally think Louise Wall would be better as Deputy, more attractive to the NZ 50% woman vote and more loyal to Cunliffe

      ….and Robertson would make a very good Minister of Something…well out of the way

  6. fender 6

    As well as Trotters latest at TDB there is this by Wayne Hope, two excellent articles well worth checking out.

    • bad12 6.1

      Lolz @ Chris Trotter, the final words of that piece on today’s daily blog are a grand tribute to the use of the English language in all its complexity,

      Indeed, when exhausted from talking sense and providing evidence to the Neo-liberal orthodoxy which has shafted the lower end of the economic demographic for the past 30 years in the final analysis as Chris Trotter suggests, we should simply resort to telling them all, go f**k yourself”…

      • Ennui 6.1.1

        Chris Trotter suggests, we should simply resort to telling them all, go f**k yourself”…
        Correct Chris is, and it is about f*k*n time we did so.

  7. Rogue Trooper 7

    “The Blogosphere will play a significant part in the next election…it’s the Wild West of Journalism…blah, blah,…”- Brian Edwards, looking very sharp on te tele. hee hee.
    meanwhile, back in ‘Nam, Charlie’s cutting the wires, no more plagiarizing the press down the paddies.
    Have a great day! 🙂

  8. Rogue Trooper 8

    and, from our man in the Middle East
    The Armagideon Times

  9. grumpy 9

    …and…a great way to save money.

  10. sthn.jeff 10

    Why did Robertson outright lie on Seven Sharp last night regarding the whereabouts of his Partner Alf?

    • Rogue Trooper 10.1

      we reflected on his credibility perception ourselves; truth will out.

      anyway, as, Zarathustra spoke, we should be grateful to the slippery adder that has afflicted us so.
      (or, was that love )

    • fender 10.2

      Seven Sharp is so crap I can’t watch it. Could you outline the “lie”.

  11. Janice 11

    I heard John Tamahere say on RNZ that if Shane Jones won the selection he would get more involved in the LP. There goes the women’s vote totally.

    • McFlock 11.1

      no doubt hordes of Waitakere Men will suddenly vote Labour. Provided they’ve learned tool use and fire-starting, first.

    • Maureen 11.2

      My thoughts exactly: we’re front-bums and geldings according to those two dinosaurs.

      • Tigger 11.2.1

        A good reason to vote against Jones then.

        • Rogue Trooper

          Re that Jones’ boy,
          22:1 Be tactful and you remain whole; bend and you remain straight. The hollow is filled, the old is renewed. Economy is gain, Excess is confusion..

          22:5 Is it empty talk, the old saying that tact keeps you whole? When truthfulness is complete, it still resorts to this.

          If one applies at a WINZ interview for assistance with C.V preparation, they can approve a ‘grant’ that pays a ‘consultant to do so. (the charge was $135 for C.V, comes with a data stick in addition to hard-copy and $67 for a ‘cover letter’). Very Helpful!

    • emergency mike 11.3


      Shane Jones:

      Mr Jones has got past a corruption allegation and that porn issue.

      “Around Aotearoa, I’ve always found that I’ve been very popular with women. I’ve never been at the top of the hit parade with feminists. But the woman I want to appeal to are the women that read the Women’s Weekly, not Germaine Greer,”

      He wants to create jobs with more drilling and mining.

      “Let’s cut to the chase – I’d rather have the young people of the North with a shovel in their hand [rather than] running around picking locks.”

      “I’m not the greatest person for political correctness. But the politically correct thing to do is win power,”

      Ew. Just ew.

      Paddy Gower ends his glowing ‘the underdog is on fire’ piece with “Jones is the only one who looks real.” Are you joking? I had to wipe myself down after watching the video.

      Shane Jones please go join the NAct party where you obviously belong.

      • QoT 11.3.1

        But the woman I want to appeal to are the women that read the Women’s Weekly, not Germaine Greer

        Oddly enough, his use of the “I don’t hate bitches, I just hate uppity bitches” strategy has not endeared him to me.

  12. hush minx 12

    I just watched that TV clip sthn.Jeff. I had to watch it twice to make sure I actually saw what I thought I did. How could he blatantly lie like that?

  13. Not A PS Staffer 13

    Chris Trotter says;
    “The Old Guard of Labour’s caucus (Phil Goff, Annette King, Trevor Mallard) realising how much the new Electoral College was likely to undermine their ability to control the direction of the party, did nothing to discourage the media’s misperception of Cunliffe’s intentions. They were desperate to keep David Shearer in place until the reins of government were securely in his (their?) hands.

    They were right to be worried. The new system is revolutionary. To grasp just how revolutionary, consider how effectively it would have prevented the takeover of the Labour Party by Roger Douglas and his cronies.”

    Read more reason NEVER to let Grant Robertson near the levers of power.


  14. captain hook 14

    Listening to JIm on RNZ yesterday afternoon and the Swedish road safety dude said there were far too many road signs????
    There only used to be one: KEEP LEFT but the chumps in the national party could not handle that and now there is a whole industry telling people what to do and they never do it!

  15. Adrian 15

    Aye aye, Cap’n. But the worst bloody thing of all is driving thru the night, vision in sync with the conditions, you head for a corner to be stupifyingly blinded by your own lights being reflected back double from the hightech fucking sign pointing to the direction that you should be taking that you haven’t got a hope in hell of making as you need a seeing eye dog for the next 50ks.

  16. bob jones has mounted a rear-guard action against any idea/plans for a capital-gains tax..

    ..and in the process..has shot himself in both (tax)-feet..heh..!


    phillip ure..

  17. chris73 18

    I’m prepared to call it: Cunliffe will be the next leader of the opposition

    What was Robertson thinking?

  18. Morrissey 19

    “YOU said that.”
    Can this train-wreck of a programme get any worse?

    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Tuesday 3 September 2013
    Jim Mora, Mai Chen, Steve McCabe

    Often the most interesting part of Jim Mora’s Panel is the fifteen-minute pre-show segment, when the guests are asked to comment on various articles plucked off the internet, grandly billed as “What the World’s Talking About”. Since they don’t have the time to think at length about many of these items, they often don’t say much of any value. They do, however, occasionally reveal a lot about themselves. Regular Panelist Stephen Franks, for instance, a legal counsel for and supporter of those bloodthirsty knife-killing enthusiasts the S.S. Trust, is fond of pontificating about the “wicked” behavior of lower class criminals. Someone else who used to guest regularly was Dr. Michael Bassett, who over the years has degenerated into a muttering, scowling old jackal; on one infamous occasion he crazily snarled that Nicky Hager was a “holocaust-denier”. Another curmudgeonly old fool who used to appear regularly on the Panel is Garth “Gaga” George, who one day learnedly opined that the Australians in the RAMSI task force were “the very worst kind of Australian”. It was on the Panel pre-show that Chris Trotter delivered his windy admonition against those who dared to question the wisdom or morality of the Florida jury that acquitted the killer of Trayvon Martin, where Rosemary McLeod sniffed contemptuously that “those people [Egyptians] don’t WANT democracy”, and dear old Gordon MacLauchlan declared in all seriousness: “Python is brilliant! It leaves Cheers for dead.”

    So it’s not unusual to hear stuff on the Panel that’s pompous, silly, stupid, unintentionally funny or (in the case of Bassett and Franks) downright depraved. But when it comes to sheer bloody hypocrisy, mealy-mouthedness and cowardice, it’s hard to go past Jim Mora himself. Look how he behaved during today’s pre-show segment…..

    NOELLE McCARTHY: John Kerry says there is definite proof because there are chemical residues in the hair and clothing of the victims, but that’s not good enough for Russia and China!
    JIM MORA: People are asking how is it so different from killing entire wedding parties with drone strikes.
    STEVE McCABE: Personally I can’t see why chemical weapons are so much worse than those other weapons.
    MORA: [mocking tone] Well it’s a RED LINE that was crossed!
    STEVE McCABE: It’s a pity the United States did not draw a red line in Vietnam.

    A couple of seconds of awkward silence…..

    MORA: You mean with Agent Orange?

    Further awkward silence….

    MORA: A couple of e-mailers have said what about when Saddam gassed the Kurds in 1988?
    STEVE McCABE: That was back when Saddam was still our mate. So it was okay.

    Brief, very tense silence….

    MORA: [sighing] YOU said that.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    More Depravity on Radio NZ: On the Radio NZ sports news at 5:30 p.m., Stephen Hewson read out an item about a St. Kilda footballer setting fire to a dwarf entertainer at a “Mad Monday” booze-up. The item included a voice grab of the dwarf, known as “Mr. Big”, describing the footballer’s actions as “just criminal.” At the end of the item, Hewson snickered, snorted and guffawed and said “Back to you Mary”.

    • i think mccabe might get dropped from the panel-guest-list for that saddam-one..(tho’ it is hardly a controversial observation..nor was the agent orange one..)

      ..and aside from all the war-mongering lies/pieties from america..

      ..the hypocrisies are fucken eyewatering..

      ..america poisoned whole fucken countries..

      ..and either themselves or thru their sattelite-states (like nz) america continues to rain death down on innocent-civilians worldwide..

      ..they and their mercenary-states/acolytes are the war-criminals of our times..

      ..phillip ure..

  19. .re pike river..

    i am as anti-pretty much everything this govt does..

    ..and there is no difference here..

    ..for the life of me..!..i can understand the emotions involved here..

    ..but this is bloody madness..!..$7.2 million pissed up against the wall..and for what..?

    ..were the body recoveries guaranteed..?..maybe..maybe..

    ..but when they aren’t..?


    ..why not use that money to form a trust for the children of those killed..?

    ..i mean..surely this is what their dead parents would want..?

    ..to set their children up for education/w.h.y. costs taken care of..

    ..to possibly set them up for life..

    ..rather than this exercise in futility..?

    phillip ure..

  20. Chooky 21

    @ phillip Ure …even better set up the kids with the $7.2 million trust ….and bring the bodies out…..using unwanted Kapiti Coast Motorway kitty money…..ie ditch the Motorway and bring the bodies out

  21. tricledrown 22

    Key wants nothing to do with The Marshall Islands nuclear testing debacle but is trigger happy with North Korea and Syria.
    The muppet is just a puppet!

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