Open mike 04/04/2019

123 comments on “Open mike 04/04/2019 ”

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1. Herodotus 1

   4 April 2019 at 7:31 am

   Some spend their time worrying about what the opposition is or not doing and having a laugh at these goings on
   YET, what is happening by those who currently have the power to make changes ?
   Have you say regarding New Zealand’s future regarding Education is about to close on the 7th April
   And the changes suggested by the “independant” task force gives no evidence based on what it is proposing will work, no overseas experience to see what they propose has achieved, just what they think.
   And the cost to implement this ??
   Remember we are in a situation whereby teachers are paid below min wage and the min has told us there is no more money available. !!!
   https://conversation.education.govt.nz/conversations/tomorrows-schools-review/have-your-say-today/
   https://www.education.govt.nz/news/tomorrows-schools-report-released/
   • millsy 1.1

     4 April 2019 at 8:03 am

     Imposing the hubs (yes, they need to be imposed) will ensure that education goes back to being a public service run by civil servants for the public good.

     Currently, education is run by rotarian hacks as a tradeable commodity, with parents as passive consumers, and schools pushing out pipils seen as hard work and pandering to international students.
     • Grantoc 1.1.1

       4 April 2019 at 11:22 am

       It will probably also ensure that schools are constrained by rigid ‘one size fits all’ ideologically driven education policies; by the inability of parent communities to be meaningfully involved in the running of their local schools; by stifling creativity for local schools in devising situation specific solutions to educational issues they face; and so on.

       Rather than assist students to be prepared and ready for the challenges of the future; especially in relation to transforming the economy so desired by Grant Robertson, these regressive ideologically driven reforms will produce decidedly average educational outcomes that won’t help students adjust to a changing world, and won’t achieve the outcomes ministers such as Robertson want vis a vis transforming the economy.
       • millsy 1.1.1.1

         4 April 2019 at 11:29 am

         Repeating the same talking points as the NZ Inititave I see, while education goes down the toilet.
       • KJT 1.1.1.2

         4 April 2019 at 2:32 pm

         Wrong reforms.
         Nationals back to the 1800’s 3 Rs, were the ideologically stultifying reforms.

         Teachers are leaving because of the inability to Teach under the current rules.
     • Herodotus 1.1.2

       4 April 2019 at 12:20 pm

       So we de construct what works for 80% of students and schools to blindly experiment and go where no one has gone before ??
       No mention of what any changes are to achieve only “we believe …” prefixing all Bali Haque statements
       There are successes out there why not see why those schools that are succeeding with Māori and Pacific students and implement that to other schools “Local Focus: How this Māori principal turned a failing school into one of the top schools in the country” – I note that such innovation would not be feasible under the newly proposed system 🙁
       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12210181

       Imposing the hubs (yes, they need to be imposed) will ensure that education goes back to being a public service run by civil servants for the public good. – That wasn’t mentioned in the report as a reason or desired outcome.
       • mpledger 1.1.2.1

         4 April 2019 at 1:10 pm

         I really don’t like the hub model because it just imposes another layer of beuracracy that will suck up tons of funding. It just adds another layer between the MoE and schools to which the MoE can shift blame.
         • Herodotus 1.1.2.1.1

           4 April 2019 at 1:55 pm

           😥
           Totally agree with you👍🏾
           Pity there is no other means to show agreement with a comment.
           At least these hubs will allow in part some growth in employment within the regions, so Min Jones will be happy – growth in the regions. As you comment money being diverted to these hubs will mean funding cuts elsewhere within the ministry – As corporate offices are a necessity will this mean front line cuts ?? 🤔
           • millsy 1.1.2.1.1.1

             4 April 2019 at 2:00 pm

             And what would you do then? Keep having schools competing? The good schools prospering and then rest sinking.

             People need to start getting on board with the hubs, forcing schools to collaborate with with each other for the common good.

             No to privatisation. Yes to public services.
             • Herodotus …

               4 April 2019 at 2:13 pm

               Funny if not machiavellian, if that post submissions are closed we have this ….
               “Next Steps
               23 When I report back to the Committee in May 2019, the report-back will also
               include:
               23.1 the relative costs and benefits of the proposals that the Minister intends to
               progress or consult further on, and
               23.2 the estimated fiscal costs and regulatory impacts of those proposals

               And where under the hub system will success come it is all a 1 fit “”solution””
               You ask these questions of me yet none are addressed within the report.
               Our overall findings
               On some outcome measures, many of our students do well at
               school. However, the system is not working well enough for our
               most disadvantaged children and young people
               So our education system is working – Yet to solve a very long existing issue we destroy everything !! And why not examine schools where “the most disadvantaged .. ” are bucking the norm . Refer link above in the NZ herald ??
               “Local Focus: How this Māori principal turned a failing school into one of the top schools in the country”
           • millsy 1.1.2.1.1.2

             4 April 2019 at 2:02 pm

             The hubs will use existing money and staff.

             They will provide a much needed support to school, and provide assistance for parents who are currently getting shafted.
             • Herodotus …

               4 April 2019 at 2:27 pm

               How do you know that as the report regarding costs and resources will not be out until NEXT month. Unless you are in the know, and the whole process has been manipulated to achieve a predetermined outcome.- that is not open and honest government !!!
               I would recommend you take some time to read the report.
               And take not of the over used phase (IMO) of “In our view” is used –
               https://conversation.education.govt.nz/assets/TSR/Tomorrows-Schools-Review-Report-13Dec2018.PDF
         • millsy ok 1.1.2.1.2

           4 April 2019 at 1:56 pm

           And what would you do then? Keep having schools competing? The good schools prospering and then rest sinking.

           People need to start getting on board with the hubs, forcing schools to collaborate with with each other for the common good.

           No to privatisation. Yes to public services.
       • millsy 1.1.2.2

         4 April 2019 at 1:53 pm

         They only succeeded by purging the schools of students that were likely to drag them down.
         • KJT 1.1.2.2.1

           4 April 2019 at 2:36 pm

           That the opposition to change consists of 40 out of 2500 schools, who have been able to cherry pick white wealthy students, and, Mike Hosking, says it all.
         • Herodotus 1.1.2.2.2

           4 April 2019 at 3:13 pm

           We have 3 great schools within 5kms
           One offer Cambridge, the other 2 ncea, but one has an outdoors facility and sports centre. Between them they offer the flyers sports but each offers a uniqu sport league, baseball and rowing (no polo ☹️)
           I see these 3 being complementary , others will see them in competition and stealing out of zone students . I suppose it is all how you perceive the world 😉
           • KJT 1.1.2.2.2.1

             4 April 2019 at 3:14 pm

             Rich white retired dairy farmers village. Need I say more.
             • Herodotus …

               4 April 2019 at 5:03 pm

               No middle class traditional suburbia, thou my typos on the phone may have added some confusion some how: traditional sports became “flyers sports” and outdoor pursuits became facility. Perhaps my intended sarc/funny “polo” was missed by you !! But given the contect I can understand the comment 😉
               • millsy …

                 4 April 2019 at 6:15 pm

                 So you support what is a privatisation and deregulation policy, where parents have no support,and schools can force parents to pay through the nose in donations and buy expensive devices
                 • Herodotus …

                   4 April 2019 at 6:47 pm

                   Are you for real and have you read the report all 148 pages ??
                   So you are happy for a 1 size fits all system, and we don’t even know if the 1 size will even work ?
                   And with a minister and a hand picked task force that has no links to success from what they are proposing, what outcomes we should expect ??
                   OUR CHILDREN DON’T DESERVE TO BE LAB RATS
                   No school forces parents – Perhaps you should go and experience the real world and not scare monger. And why do schools request donations and fund raise ??
                   Because the govt inadequately funds education. Our minister has been caught out pay below min wage to teachers and support staff. And when they are found out breaking the law –
                   “The rise in the minimum wage on 1 April will see a 7.3% increase for some education workers – but with no funding to pay the new rates.”
                   https://www.nzei.org.nz/NZEI/Media/Releases/2019/03/Urgent_funding_needed_to_lift_education_workers_to_legal_minimum_wage_next_week.aspx
                   • In Vino …

                     4 April 2019 at 9:09 pm

                     Herodotus (pretentious ancient Greek pseudonym)
                     Stop boring us with your ‘one size fits all’ clichés and your faux concern.
                     I started teaching in 1970, and I laugh to scorn your silly pretence that Tomorrow’s Schools reforms brought anything much that should not now be rescinded.
                     Who are you to judge?
                   • Herodotus …

                     5 April 2019 at 7:52 am

                     In Vino
                     I have taken time to read what was produced from this task force seen the video and the road show. I have concern, who are you to throw away cheap comments with the express intent of insulting comments regarding “faux concern”.
                     “.. laugh to scorn your silly pretence that Tomorrow’s Schools reforms brought anything much that should not now be rescinded.” Funny how a previous govt made radical changes to the education system that you find have no value. Yet this is what is currently happening, another govt is using our children as lab rats to shake up the education system, for what ?
                     I am yet to see any links from anyone supporting the changes with what outcomes we should expect.
                     Another link regarding commentary – I await some sound responses NOT insults. But that is the way of today 😤
                     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/111723690/terrifying-words-for-schools-the-ministrys-here-to-help
                   • KJT …

                     5 April 2019 at 4:50 pm

                     The whole premise of “competing” schools, run by “Managerial” principals, with a business type “board” of, mostly self selected “representatives”, has been an entirely predictable cluster fuck, right from the start.
                     Exacerbated recently by National dumping the well researched and consulted on, NZ curriculum, which was flexible and student centred, by an ideological return to producing cannon fodder, for employers.
                     Schools in well off areas, have been able to go around the narrow education National desired, with extra funding and help from their communities.
                     They have no desire, for equality of opportunity to return.
                     “Can’t have poor brown kids competing with our spoilt brats for the best jobs”.
                     Some are perfectly happy with a two tier education system.
                     Meanwhile. The system is, failing most children.
                     Not least because of all the current micro-management, bumf production and control, our “managerial model”, requires. Currently about two hours paperwork is required for every hour of contact time.
                     Then, there is actually finding time for lesson planning, teaching and helping the many left behind.
                   • In Vino …

                     5 April 2019 at 7:42 pm

                     Well said, KJT.
                     I could add a lot more of my own sour feelings about the crassly stupid ‘reforms’ made to our education system under what is now ‘Yesterday’s Schools’, but the thread is old, unlikely to be read, and I think Herodotus a determined right-wing ideologue anyway.
2. Robert Guyton 2

   4 April 2019 at 7:41 am

   The national permaculture hui begins today in Riverton, with a powhiri in the big Mongolian yurt followed by afternoon tea in the tunnelhouse wharekai. The 150 or so attendees will then weave their way through the forest garden, back to the yurt for the first of the key note talks, this one from me, talking about the history of the area and our garden, surrounding orchards, growing community and projects. Over the next 3 days, we’ll hear from all manner of interesting permaculturalists, Nandor Tanczos is speaking tomorrow, on topics as wide as imaginable; we’ll enjoy bonfires each night, a hangi on Saturday and the delicious food from the talented Green Cuisine crew, serving from their food van on our driveway. We’ve as many musicians as you could ever hope for, enough Jacks and Jills of all trades to cope with any technical hitch, enough fruit on the trees; red-fleshed peaches in particular and more apple varieties than you could name. Our bakers have made and stored treats galore; and this is all I have time to write, as the house is stirring and we’ll be in full-on mode shortly; there are preparations to make; Hollie’s running a Country Mouse market and there are hazels and acorns to polish 🙂
   I’ll report back on Sunday, in How to get there and hopefully have something to say on that topic in real-time.
   • Sabine 2.1

     4 April 2019 at 8:14 am

     honestly, i wish i could be there. Maybe next year? (hopeful much?)
   • RedLogix 2.2

     4 April 2019 at 8:38 am

     Go well Robert. And well done getting all that organised!
   • JanM 2.3

     4 April 2019 at 8:49 am

     Gee, that sounds heavenly!
   • patricia bremner 2.4

     4 April 2019 at 9:17 am

     I will look forward to that Robert. You sound so upbeat and happy. Cheers
   • Marcus Morris 2.5

     4 April 2019 at 9:21 am

     Sounds superb Robert. Will the hui be at the same venue next year.
   • ianmac 2.6

     4 April 2019 at 9:22 am

     Sounds like a good model of where we might be in a decade or so when energy problems and global warming problems force us all to becoming much more self sufficient. Do we really need exotic foods and goods to be imported, and do we need to depend on vast numbers of tourists?
     Sounds great Robert.
     • Anne 2.6.1

       4 April 2019 at 9:50 am

       I concur. Thanks ianmac. So much lost in this crazy world of consumerism, materialism and commercial tourism.
   • Kevin 2.7

     4 April 2019 at 10:31 am

     All the best Robert. Sounds like an interesting day.
   • One Two 2.8

     4 April 2019 at 4:45 pm

     That does sound wonderful.

     Enjoyable to read the updates leading into the hui…
3. te reo putake 3

   4 April 2019 at 8:01 am

   Kia ora, all. Just a quick update on a matter raised earlier in the week. Yesterday, I went to a WINZ office to act as support for someone who found themselves needing urgent financial help.

   A couple of Standarnistas gave me some tips and advice on what to ask for and I’m pleased to report that the staff at the WINZ office were helpful, understanding and empathetic. We will meet again early next week to provide some more paperwork, which will confirm the total entitlements, but in the meantime, accommodation supplement is already OK’d and it has been indicated that Temporary Additional Support will likely be granted.

   This is a significant matter for the person I represented, who has been left with no income for over a month due to a weakness in the ACC system.

   So, thank you to those who pointed me in the right direction. It might have only been a few words on a blog, but you’ve made a huge difference to a young man in a desperate situation.
   • One Two 3.1

     4 April 2019 at 8:44 am

     That’s really good, TRP.

     Same to those who gave tips for navigating winz…

     Knowing the in’s and out’s is crucial to getting good outcomes…
   • Sanctuary 3.2

     4 April 2019 at 9:22 am

     fantastic news. Keep fighting the good fight!
   • patricia bremner 3.3

     4 April 2019 at 9:22 am

     TRP, I’m glad he had someone like you to help him. You are right that the service gaps of weeks to change over can be traumatic to someone already stressed. Pleased to hear there was a helpful attitude at WINZ.
     • ianmac 3.3.1

       4 April 2019 at 9:28 am

       Wonder if there has been a real change of Heart at WINZ because your current contact sounds reasonable. If so it makes you wonder what made WINZ previously sound so threatening. Was it really a deliberate policy from previous Government to make it as hard as possible?
       • te reo putake 3.3.1.1

         4 April 2019 at 9:55 am

         The Nats certainly enabled a nasty culture to fester in WINZ and ACC. Always worth remembering that Paula Benefit publicly bullied and humiliated a couple of beneficiaries who stood up to her. If the boss is an unrepentant bully, it gives the green light for poor behaviour from all staff. Happily, I’ve got the feeling that the new culture of kindness has taken root in at least one WINZ branch.
         • tc 3.3.1.1.1

           4 April 2019 at 11:04 am

           ACC needs a top down overhaul. It’s not focused on getting people well again just it’s numbers using case workers dishing out ‘youre on your own sweetie ‘ type advice.

           The DHB’S also. Watching clinicians wait for Windows 7 to go through the motions in 2019 is a sign they’re way off the pace. They are visibly frustrated by it and MS stopped mainstream support 4 years ago…….Tick tick tick
       • Kevin 3.3.1.2

         4 April 2019 at 10:35 am

         I think maybe a culture change is underway.

         I was speaking to someone last weekend who has had to give up work to be a full time carer for her son who has been diagnosed with cancer and she was treated with respect. The WINZ meeting was friendly and she was not put through hoops like she was expecting.

         Long may this continue.
4. vto 4

   4 April 2019 at 8:08 am

   So the silly gun lobby cry… “wah wah, all this ban does is make criminals of law-abiding people and responsible gun-owners, and has no effect on actual criminals”

   Is it not apparent to them that the mosque-murderer was a “law-abiding person and responsible gun-owner” ?

   The argument is a total nonsense.

   Do gun lobby people ever think through things?
   • te reo putake 4.1

     4 April 2019 at 8:11 am

     If only there was a pithy phrase that covered the approach of the gun lobby. Something like shoot first, don’t ask awkward questions later.
   • marty mars 4.2

     4 April 2019 at 9:38 am

     We have this gun lobby not identifying the target correctly and firing shots at shadows and movement instead. And they will end up shooting their mates.
   • Kevin 4.3

     4 April 2019 at 10:36 am

     The NRA talking points are being repeated hard core on Facebook these days.
5. Adrian 5

   4 April 2019 at 8:16 am

   Oh Soimon ! The gift that just keeps on giving. Please Nats FFS don’t change him.
   Although it does sound like his staff are equally as stupid as he.
   • tc 5.1

     4 April 2019 at 11:10 am

     It’s called the Peter principle. Peter and hulls 1969 book intended as satire.
6. Dennis Frank 6

   4 April 2019 at 9:19 am

   Maduro’s kangaroo court is working with his fake parliament to remove Guaido’s civil rights. The practical exercise of stalinism as state policy is meant to signal that no dissent will be tolerated, and democracy is only good when preached – bad when practiced. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47799263

   “Why was his immunity lifted? Under the Venezuelan constitution, lawmakers cannot be arrested or put on trial unless they are stripped of their parliamentary immunity first. On Monday, the Supreme Court asked the National Constituent Assembly to end Mr Guaidó’s immunity because he defied a travel ban the Supreme Court had imposed on him.”

   Freedom of movement is a civil right in a democracy. To a stalinist, it is intolerable. And it is absolutely essential to strip legislators of their legal protection!

   “Why is this move controversial? According to article 200 of the Venezuelan constitution, the Supreme Court has the power to order the arrest or prosecution of a lawmaker “subject to authorisation in advance from the National Assembly”.”

   Will leftist commentators onsite here once again retreat into denial or perform backflips & other mental contortions to evade the moral point? I await their performance with eager anticipation…
   • mauī 6.1

     4 April 2019 at 10:08 am

     Dennis, you can do better than this. Straight from the BBC I see…

     You care more about the rights of one instigator than the people or the democracy of Venezuela! Says a lot…
   • Sanctuary 6.2

     4 April 2019 at 10:16 am

     First of all, the elections in Venezuela are probably better run than the ones in the United States, the idea that Maduro has no legitimacy as leader is a straight propaganda lie.

     Secondly, if David Seymour declared himself prime minster tomorrow, incited gun owners and farmers and ACToids to riot, destroy property and encouraged foreign agent provocateurs to cripple the elctricity system and fire on the police and agitated for his big business mates to launch a capital strike to cripple the economy I am pretty sure he would be facing arraignment and a treason trial a lot quicker than Guaido will.

     Thirdly, his human rights are not – yet – being violated. All that is happening is via a legal process his immunity to prosecution is being removed. Given that Guaido has basically committed treason, that seems fair enough to me.
     • Kevin 6.2.1

       4 April 2019 at 10:38 am

       Exactly. Well said.
     • aj 6.2.2

       4 April 2019 at 11:02 am

       The propaganda war has been in full swing for years and won’t let up until Abrams and his like achieve their goal of regime change. This time it’s a little different. The other players on the periphery – Russia and China – are not going to let Venezuela slip away into the hands of the USA.
     • KJT 6.2.3

       5 April 2019 at 5:03 pm

       Guido is part of a group that tried an armed insurrection against an elected Government.
       Try conspiring to overthrow our Government by force, and see how long you stay out of jail.
   • Gabby 6.3

     4 April 2019 at 12:58 pm

     This is the guido who’s conspiring with a forn par to bring down an elected government is it franky? Parfle crtique there praxisman, parfle.
   • KJT 6.4

     4 April 2019 at 2:43 pm

     Dennis. You have imbibed a near fatal dose of right wing Fox news.

     I suggest a course of ingesting actual journalism.

     If Maduro was a totalitarian dictator, the armed rebellion would have been all shot already. Even here Guido, and his violent coup supporting mates, would be in jail. How many coup attempts against an elected Government are you allowed. If you are a US supporting, Fascist!
     • Dennis Frank 6.4.1

       4 April 2019 at 3:26 pm

       Actually, I don’t watch Fox. Not to say that I wouldn’t, if it became free to air here, for the entertainment value.

       As regards journalism, the only type of relevance would be investigative, but media owners have disposed of that in the new millennium. That’s why I had to do it myself, to expose the suppression of democracy in Venezuela, and publish the facts here several months ago.

       I agree that Maduro is being careful not to go full Stalinism as yet. Happy to give him credit for that. Equally, there is no coup happening so far. Other countries in the region refer to Maduro’s “self-coup” and I published the quote for that back then too. I oppose any unilateral intervention by the US.
       • KJT 6.4.1.1

         4 April 2019 at 3:46 pm

         Total bullshit.

         Just blown what remaining credibility you had.

         Supporting the return of fascist, Banana republic, in South America.
         • Dennis Frank 6.4.1.1.1

           4 April 2019 at 4:10 pm

           Don’t be silly. Nuanced view of complex situations aren’t as difficult as you seem to think! I don’t like Maduro’s class warfare agenda. If the middle class can do peaceful coexistence with the working class in other countries, why not in Venezuela too?

           I don’t believe US control needs to be imposed. I’ve opposed US foreign policy since the Vietnam War era, and specifically that banana-republic part since I learnt about it in the mid-80s. I believe their oil money ought to be distributed to all Venezuelan people – not captured by corporations or Maduro’s stalinists.
           • KJT 6.4.1.1.1.1

             5 April 2019 at 4:25 pm

             Loaded bs like “Stalinist”, now. I suppose at least your propaganda is subtle, as well as ignorant.

             I am ready to think, from observation, and reading, that Maduro is struggling with running the country.

             But the opposition, and the USA, have thrown up every obstacle they can.

             I certainly don’t think any of our politicians could do better.

             The “class warfare”, it seems, stems from the other sides reluctance to give the poor, and coloured, a share.

             Nowhere near as bad as the Trump republicans, however.
             Should the West invade the USA, and change the Government?
         • Gabby 6.4.1.1.2

           4 April 2019 at 4:51 pm

           Give franky credit, he hasn’t gone full franco yet, in praxis.
           • KJT 6.4.1.1.2.1

             5 April 2019 at 5:06 pm

             He is learning.
7. Andre 7

   4 April 2019 at 9:23 am

   Technology trends in farming…

   https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/03/future-farms-agritech-innovations-to-feed-a-changing-planet/
   • ianmac 7.1

     4 April 2019 at 9:31 am

     This would fit with Robert’s comment @ 2.
     • Andre 7.1.1

       4 April 2019 at 10:07 am

       Given that many of the things talked about go off in a very different direction to the values and methods in Robert’s post, I kinda figured it would be derailing or even trolling to put it as a reply there.
   • bwaghorn 7.2

     4 April 2019 at 12:49 pm

     The thing is we dont gave a food shortage. If the food grown wasn’t wasted and people only ate the amount required to stay healthy and we found a way for poorer nations to buy the excess created it would be solved tomorrow.
     • Andre 7.2.1

       4 April 2019 at 1:22 pm

       In a world that’s on its way to 10 or 11 billion people, any surplus we might create from reducing waste and distribution inefficiency is going to disappear really quickly. That’s even before climate change and soil depletion start seriously reducing potential yields. And before considering the way most people start overconsuming food when it becomes easy to do so, in a rush to emulate the worst of porky westerners.
       • Dennis Frank 7.2.1.1

         4 April 2019 at 3:32 pm

         Someone posted the latest projection here a few months back. It supported the prognosis published by Fred Pearce a few years ago in Peoplequake, that global population is likely to top out at 9.5 billion then subside due to demographic trends.

         So unless you have a contradictory source, looks like non-replacement is now becoming so prevalent in so many different countries as to cancel out the third world boom effect…
         • Andre 7.2.1.1.1

           4 April 2019 at 3:47 pm

           The UN projection from 2017 says 9.8 billion by 2050 then 11 billion by 2100

           https://www.un.org/development/desa/en/news/population/world-population-prospects-2017.html

           However:

           Most of the projected increase in the world’s population can be attributed to a short list of high-fertility countries, mainly in Africa, or countries with already large populations. During 2015-2050, half of the world’s population growth is expected to be concentrated in nine countries: India, Nigeria, Pakistan, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, United Republic of Tanzania, United States of America (USA), Indonesia and Uganda, listed according to the size of their contribution to the total growth.

           Given what climate change is going to do most of those countries, I’m guessing those projections will end up being high. I suspect there’s going to be a shitload of suffering creating that difference between projection and actual.
           • Dennis Frank 7.2.1.1.1.1

             4 April 2019 at 3:59 pm

             Four horsemen? Even putting that effect to one side, subsidence of population due to culture change, due to economic lifting of the third world out of the poverty trap, could be understated currently.

             https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/06/22/the-problematic-assumption-in-the-uns-9-8-billion-people-projection/#325372cb3291

             I think Pearce & others are using this cascade effect as rationale for their rosier picture of the future. Upside of globalisation…
             • Andre …

               4 April 2019 at 4:11 pm

               Getting back to the starting point of this thread, even if we didn’t have population growth worries, we’d still have a lot of incentive to increase agricultural productivity by whatever means we can, including technological. To get more output from less input and smaller footprint.

               Maybe so foods that now are occasional luxuries become more frequent. Maybe further reduce the numbers of us suffering hunger and malnutrition. Maybe we can stop destroying what few wild places remain, and maybe, just maybe, even start rewilding some areas currently used for agriculture.
8. jcuknz 8

   4 April 2019 at 9:44 am

   With regard to the current or recent huuhaa in Parliament I would point out that Guns do not kill people but the humans pulling the trigger or careless handling.
   It is easy to ban guns but what is being done about and for the human element in the problem?
   • ankerawshark 8.1

     4 April 2019 at 10:01 am

     jcuknz it is a reasonable question. Severely restricting the sale of semi automatics etc will help as the countries (such as japan) with the strictest guns laws have the less gun crime. It is a bit like the suicide rate. One of the only ways it has been significantly reduced was when we changed the house hold gas supply from toxic to benign. Did that deal with the issue of people feeling suicidal and wanting to end their life, of course not. That is the really tough bit. Same with stopping people who want to kill others or commit extremist crimes.

     I listened to an interview on Radio NZ with a Professor Gill who has studied “lone wolf” terrorists. I have to say, the interviewer was very disappointing, but I followed up by reading some of his research.

     The most helpful thing seems to be that these guys often tell people what they are going to do, or publicize it. Interestingly enough there is a case reported today of a right wing extremist who was going to stab a Labour MP and policewoman and was dobbed in by someone he talked to…………………..
   • vto 8.2

     4 April 2019 at 10:50 am

     “Guns do not kill people but the humans pulling the trigger ”

     This argument has always been complete bollocks.

     In evidence try this exercise without gun: make a trigger-pulling movement with your finger right now in front of your computer screen. What happened?

     Look forward to replies
     • aj 8.2.1

       4 April 2019 at 11:05 am

       People with guns kill people, no matter how much the gun lobby repeats that BS. I hope the public at large are motivated enough to make a quick submission today. Every recommendation of the Thorp Report needs to be enacted. Now.
     • bwaghorn 8.2.2

       4 April 2019 at 12:50 pm

       🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
   • Psycho Milt 8.3

     4 April 2019 at 12:41 pm

     It is easy to ban guns but what is being done about and for the human element in the problem?

     Well, you see, there are inherent problems in banning humans that should become obvious after even brief reflection on the subject.
   • Gabby 8.4

     4 April 2019 at 12:59 pm

     One thing to be done is to take away their guns jockey.
   • KJT 8.5

     5 April 2019 at 4:35 pm

     OK. Weapons “don’t kill people, people do”.

     Fine, then let’s legalise RPG’s, main battle tanks and cruise missiles, for citizen use.
     After all they “don’t kill people, people do”.
9. ankerawshark 9

   4 April 2019 at 9:49 am

   I support the the Arms (Prohibited Firearms, Magazines, and Parts) Amendment Bill in its entirety.

   … into the form on this page (scroll down to the bottom)
   https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/make-a-submission/document/52SCFE_SCF_BILL_86423/arms-prohibited-firearms-magazines-and-parts-amendment

   This is how to make a submission in support of the Arms Bill
10. ianmac 10

    4 April 2019 at 9:51 am

    “The “emotional staffer” who National Leader Simon Bridges said was responsible for deleting a controversial petition on the party’s website is said to be in dispute with National.”
    Oh dear. Simon has upset one of his own. Lawyers involved.
    • A 10.1

      4 April 2019 at 10:00 am

      Another one?
      • ianmac 10.1.1

        4 April 2019 at 12:02 pm

        “Stuff reported that the staffer, who has worked for National MPs in a number of different roles over the years, has retained Kensington Swan lawyer Linda Clark to represent their interests.”
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12219133
11. joe90 11

    4 April 2019 at 10:41 am

    Sanders isn’t a Democrat. He’s never run for office in Vermont as a Democrat. But the Fox/Trump/NRA Axis of Evil is determined to make Sanders a Democrat because they think he’s the candidate Trump can most easily beat.

    Fox News’ Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum will host a town hall with Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders on April 15 in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, with a focus on the economy and jobs.

    Why it matters: Earlier this year, the Democratic National Committee barred Fox News from hosting any of its primary debates, after a New Yorker investigation shed light on the extent of the network’s ties to the Trump administration.

    https://www.axios.com/2020-presidential-election-bernie-sanders-fox-news-town-hall-382d3b77-452b-4c5e-8073-672863350433.html
    • alwyn 11.1

      4 April 2019 at 12:58 pm

      Are you claiming that Bernie was lying last month then, Joe?
      He signed a statement that he was a member of the Democratic Party on 6 March this year.
      https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/bernie-sanders-signs-dnc-loyalty-pledge-i-am-member-democratic-n979696
      I wouldn’t have thought that a town hall meeting with one candidate present could be considered to be a party debate of course.
      • joe90 11.1.1

        4 April 2019 at 2:56 pm

        He’s never lifted a finger to fund raise for the party but because he needs access to their data, staff, and volunteer base, he had to join and pledge allegiance.

        Dude’s a carpetbagger.
        • Barfly 11.1.1.1

          4 April 2019 at 4:24 pm

          Dude’s got principles
          • joe90 11.1.1.1.1

            4 April 2019 at 4:54 pm

            Principles like supporting a plan to ship his state’s nuclear nuclear waste across the continent to be dumped in a poor, mostly Latino community?

            Or, principles like being the 2016 cycle’s top senatorial recipient of defence industry money?
            • Drowsy M. Kram 11.1.1.1.1.1

              4 April 2019 at 6:58 pm

              You’re not wrong. Such apalling principles – grind Bernie into the dust.

              “As an Independent member of the U.S. House of Representatives for Vermont, Sanders was one of 23 co-sponsors of House Resolution 629, which called for Congress to give its consent to the Texas Low-Level Radioactive Waste Disposal Compact — an agreement between the states of Texas, Maine, and Vermont.

              Speaking on the floor of the house in October 1997, Sanders said he was in “strong support” of the resolution for environmental reasons, and stressed that he personally was opposed to the use of nuclear power, but that the waste it produces had to be disposed of as safely as possible.”

              Congress passed the resolution comfortably by 305 votes to 117, as did the Senate, by 78 votes to 15.

              https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bernie-sanders-sierra-blanca-nuclear-waste/

              “Within that tab, we can click “All Senators.” Up top, receiving $420,000 from the defense industry, is Bernie Sanders. Then Ted Cruz. Both ran for president, so it’s not a surprise they received a lot of money. Sanders hung on longer than Cruz. And, notably, their main rivals (Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, respectively) were not in Congress, so they would not be listed here even if they had received more. Instead, we go to the “Recipients” tab and see Clinton received over $1 million from the defense industry; Trump received about $319,000.”

              https://journalistsresource.org/studies/politics/finance-lobbying/writing-campaign-finance-tip-sheet-tools-examples/

              ““I just feel he’s honest, he’s straightforward, dependable, trustworthy and doesn’t change his tune to get votes,” said Connie Whalley, a nurse practitioner who left her job three years ago to spend more time with her family.

              The 66-year-old Topanga resident has contributed $622 to Sanders’ campaign in 22 separate donations because she was impressed by his calls for a $15 minimum wage, tuition-free public college, campaign-finance reform and most of all, single-payer healthcare.

              “I honestly believe everyone has the right to free healthcare and… I just think it is unspeakable we have insurance companies that are making profits off people’s health,” she said.

              Not surprisingly, Sanders gets very little money — 2% of his overall haul — from Wall Street, which he frequently criticizes as “corrupt” and responsible for creating a “rigged economy.””

              https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-sanders-donors/
12. A 12

    4 April 2019 at 10:45 am

    NZ Journos jailed

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/04/04/521015/newsroom-journalists-detained-in-fiji

    Newsroom co-editor Mark Jennings, investigations editor Melanie Reid and cameraman Hayden Aull are in a holding room at the Totogo police station after developer Freesoul Real Estate accused them of criminal trespass. While they have not been charged, they were locked up ahead of likely police interviews this morning.
    • tc 12.1

      4 April 2019 at 11:16 am

      Fiji…..No surprises there. Police are extension of that abhorrent govt that seems to do as it pleases.
      • alwyn 12.1.1

        4 April 2019 at 1:05 pm

        Well, if our lot go ahead with the laws Andrew Little seems to be planning I imagine there will be a few journalists ending up in jail here as well.
        Almost anything that describes the perpetrator of a crime would seem to qualify.
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111661809/hate-crime-law-review-fasttracked-following-christchurch-mosque-shootings
        Mind you I am tempted to suggest it couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch that the schmucks in the MSM.
13. greywarshark 13

    4 April 2019 at 11:15 am

    Difficulties for the poor in the USA – similar here?
    Oct 15 2015

    https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/if-the-us-government-treated-poor-people-as-well-as-it-treats-banks/410614/
    One of the great ironies in modern America is that the less money you have, the more you pay to use it. The country’s “unbanked” must pay high fees to fringe banks to turn their paychecks into cash, pay their monthly bills, or send money to a spouse or a child.

    The unbanked pay much of their income—up to 10 percent—just to use their money. For these families, the total price of simple financial services each month is more than they spend on food. Indeed, it is very expensive to be poor.

    This problem, however, reaches well beyond those traditionally considered poor. More than 70 percent of Americans consider themselves “middle class,” yet anywhere from 20 to 40 percent of the population must rely on check cashing or payday lending services.
14. mosa 14

    4 April 2019 at 11:39 am

    Bill Maher’s take on socialism.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6e4mOit0Rc
15. arkie 15

    4 April 2019 at 12:26 pm

    There seems to be some misunderstanding and misapplication of the term Postmodernism. In this video, the tension between identity politics and the work of postmodern theorists is addressed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26fIBA7O5Ag
    • Dennis Frank 15.1

      4 April 2019 at 1:19 pm

      Yeah, was worth a listen. Too academic for most punters, I suspect. Got better around 12 mins in. Ivory-tower syndrome is a terrible affliction which imposes a crippling handicap on the intellect. No reference to shapeshifters (that would require both lateral-thinking and reference to the big-picture context outside acadaemia).

      Even worse, no acknowledgement of those with multiple personalities. Presumably, the speaker believes discriminating against that minority is cool. I think those with multiple identities deserve inclusion, not exclusion. I learnt much about human nature from reading several dozen books about them. Cohabitation of a human body by a crowd of identities is a thing. Denial of this part of life is bad.
      • arkie 15.1.1

        9 April 2019 at 8:16 am

        Would you look at this! This video covers that:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9srhgHzUFd4
    • arkie 15.2

      4 April 2019 at 1:43 pm

      Given continued misunderstanding of what postmodern theory is even about:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmYegIGhwtc
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4hS5NSzPxw
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsfKrNLIwhM
16. marty mars 16

    4 April 2019 at 2:38 pm

    Good result for a rotten commentary.

    “Newstalk ZB broadcaster Heather du Plessis-Allan has been censured over comments made on air last September.

    The Broadcasting Standards Authority (BSA) found comments made by du Plessis-Allan, referring to Pacific Islands as “leeches”, breached broadcasting standards.

    The BSA ordered broadcaster NZME Radio to pay $3000 in costs to the Crown and also broadcast a statement during du Plessis-Allan’s show summarising the decision.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12219199
    • Macro 16.1

      4 April 2019 at 2:44 pm

      Good!
      That sort of commentary has no place in this country, or any other, for that matter.
    • tc 16.2

      4 April 2019 at 4:04 pm

      $3000 will not discourage red neck radio zb from repeating it if it gets them audience points to upsell ads.

      Over 6 months between offence and wet busticket slap. The beancounters will advise on its value for money.
17. Macro 17

    4 April 2019 at 2:40 pm

    Crosby Textor have their grubby little hands over everything don’t they. Not content with stuffing up NZ social justice for over a decade promoting the right wing agenda of Key and co, they have now been found out to be behind a multitude of pro-leave adverts directed at chosen Facebook uses to pressure MP’s on voting to leave. Oh and they are also buttering up the same facebook users to accepting dipstick in chief Boris as PM! Their mission (as was exhibited by Key) is to leave the world as f**ked up as possible – including the promotion of burning more coal.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/03/grassroots-facebook-brexit-ads-secretly-run-by-staff-of-lynton-crosby-firm

    The House of Commons digital, culture, media and sport select committee, which has led the way on investigating online disinformation, has repeatedly called for Facebook to reveal the identities of those who were funding Mainstream Network, suggesting they crossed an ethical line.

    “I believe there is a strong public interest in understanding who is behind the Mainstream Network, and that this information should be published,” the committee’s chairman, Damian Collins, said last month after Facebook refused to identify the individuals behind the page.

    “People should have a right to know who is targeting them with political advertisements and why. That is why the committee had called for a change in the law to outlaw these kind of dark adverts from secret campaigns,” he said.

    Although the documents point towards the individuals who are running the campaigns, it remains unclear who is ultimately picking up the substantial bill for this attempt to persuade MPs there is a grassroots uprising for a hard Brexit.

    my bold
    • joe90 17.1

      4 April 2019 at 3:01 pm

      Astroturfer in chief.

      https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1113346710816862208
18. Andre 18

    4 April 2019 at 5:01 pm

    Nobody coulda seen this one coming: maybe Mueller’s report was a teensy tiny bit not quite so positive for Agent Orange as Barr’s summary letter made it out to be.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/03/politics/mueller-investigators-report-worse-for-trump/index.html
    • arkie 18.1

      4 April 2019 at 6:11 pm

      I liked this early response from Devin Nunes:

      You know, we can just burn it up. It is a partisan document

      https://thehill.com/homenews/house/435513-nunes-on-mueller-report-we-can-just-burn-it-up

      That’s what you do with exonerating documents right?
    • Anne 18.2

      4 April 2019 at 6:33 pm

      As the chief investigator, does not Mueller have a right to speak up if his report is not being accurately summarised to the American people?
      • Andre 18.2.1

        4 April 2019 at 6:41 pm

        AFAIK, no. He was commissioned to investigate and report to the DOJ, which would then decide what to do with it from there. If he did publicly talk about it, he would be breaking the same general protocols and norms Comey broke by talking about her e-mails, let alone possibly breaking laws buried in the statutes that allowed his Special Counsel investigation to be set up.
        • Anne 18.2.1.1

          4 April 2019 at 6:45 pm

          Well, all I can say is: what a f****d up country America is. It means a corrupt president and his equally corrupt administration lackeys can lie to the people with total impunity and never be brought to account. It beggars belief!
          • Andre 18.2.1.1.1

            4 April 2019 at 7:01 pm

            Yeah. Some of it goes all the way back to the founding.

            Some of the justification for the Electoral College rather than directly electing the prez was so the electors would be able to examine the character and fitness for office of the leading candidate. If the popular vote barfed up some loser grifter, they would exercise their better judgement to overrule the popular vote and choose someone who actually was suitable. It was supposed to be a line of defense against someone like Don Drumpfeone becoming prez. Look up Federalist 68 if you’re interested. Of course, the outcome we’ve got now is the Electoral College overruled the good judgement of the popular vote and gave us the conman.

            The possibility of a corrupt prez corrupting the legislative and judicial branches did occur to the founders, and some of the provisions are clearly attempts to guard against that. Which have proven inadequate to prevent the spinal dissolution and craven capitulation of almost all the other Repugs.
19. Jenny - How to get there? 19

    4 April 2019 at 5:28 pm

    ‘

    Christchurch mosque attacks: Accused to face 50 murder charges, police confirm

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/386349/christchurch-mosque-attacks-accused-to-face-50-murder-charges-police-confirm

    Fifty counts of murder and 34 counts of attempted murder.

    No terrorism charges

    Apparently only Maori and brown people can be terrorists.
    • Ankerrawshark 19.1

      4 April 2019 at 5:51 pm

      Hi Jenny I had understood that they weren’t using the charge of terrorism, because it is largely untested and they don’t want to risk this fucker getting off on a technicality. That what I heard, but I could be wrong
    • Andre 19.2

      4 April 2019 at 5:59 pm

      The esteemed and learned Professor Geddis discusses pros and cons of terrorism and murder charges over at https://www.pundit.co.nz . Sorry you’ll have to scroll down to find it; the URL contains the fuckwit’s name so linking directly to the page would send this comment straight to trash here.
      • Jenny - How to get there? 19.2.1

        4 April 2019 at 7:35 pm

        The campaign not to name the terrorist, (who apparently is not a terrorist according to the police prosecution), was also played out in Norway during the trial of the fascist mass murderer Andre Brevik. TV One tonight, said in Norway this policy had to be dropped. “He is not Voldemort” said one Norwegian woman interviewed. The campaign not to refer to the Brevik by name only created and air of mystique around Brevik and encouraged like minded extremists to invent and then circulate conspiracy theories.

        Brenten Terent is no supernatural being. where the mere spoken (or written), utterance of his name brings an evil curse. We need to fully understand what made him into what he is.

        This cannot happen under a blanket of secrecy, and secret dread to speak his name. Conspiracy thrives in the shadows.

        As the saying goes ‘Sunlight is the best disinfectant, electric light is the best policeman’

        In Norway they found it was better to forensically dissect and publicly demolish Brevik’s manifesto, than censor it.

        Terrent like Brevik sees himself as a hero.

        Benten Terent is a miserable little fascist terrorist. He must be firmly identified as such by our authorities. He and his (admirers) need to be made to own this label of shame, in court.

        I don’t believe for one minute the argument that such charges would allow Torrent to get off on a technicality.

        The police had no trouble at all charging Tama Iti under the Suppression Of Terrorism Act. Despite the fact that Iti had not killed anyone, or was even involved in plotting to kill anyone.

        If the charge of terrorist cannot be made to stick to someone like B****** T***** who plotted and then executed the murder of 50 innocent people to further his white Supremacist political views, then there is something very wrong at the heart of the New Zealand Suppression Of Terrorism Act.

        As well as being charged with murder and attempted murder BT* needs to be charged as the terrorist he is.

        *See you have got me doing it.
        • Andre 19.2.1.1

          4 April 2019 at 8:01 pm

          Am I to take any message from your misspelling of the Norwegian fuckwit’s first name?

          Although I’m fine with referring to the fuckwit as the fuckwit, I actually had nothing to do with this site’s decision to make the fuckwit’s real name a direct line to the trash folder, to be retrieved only if a mod happens to look there and decides it’s worth fishing out.

          In any case, it’s not dread or an attempt to toss him down the memory hole that’s the motivation for minimising the use of his name. It’s just denying him the personal recognition that was likely a partial motivation for his fuckwittery.

          As for whether the fuckwit’s a terrorist or not, Geddis’ piece explains why there’s probably no legal upside to charging him under the terrorism laws. That those terrorism laws were grievously misused and shown to be badly flawed the one time they actually were used, and are useless in this current case where we have actual terrorism, might actually prompt a clean-up of those laws. Or not.
          • Jenny - How to get there? 19.2.1.1.1

            4 April 2019 at 8:14 pm

            The delay in bringing charges under the Suppression of Terrorism Act is a studied insult to the victims and their families.

            We all know, if the situation had been reversed the police would not have wasted one second in bringing a charge of terrorism.

            The police fell over themselves to bring such charges against Tama Iti.

            I mean what level of atrocity must be committed against innocent Muslims in this country before we consider it a terrorist act?

            Why are we Umm-ing and Ah-ing about it.

            If Muslims weren’t the victims we wouldn’t even be debating.
            • Jenny - How to get there?The 19.2.1.1.1.1

              4 April 2019 at 10:41 pm

              If the situation had been reversed and the terrorist had a Arabic or Asian, or Maori name. To make certain that we knew his ethnicity, to demonise a whole race or culture or religion, his name would be on every news feed.

              This guy has a regular European name.

              Let’s suppress it.

              Let’s distance ourselves from it.

              Let’s deny that he is one of us. That he is a product of our culture, and of our race and yes even of our religion.
          • Jenny - How to get there? 19.2.1.1.2

            4 April 2019 at 9:08 pm

            This guy didn’t drop from outer space.

            Acting like he did, covers for the fact that he is a product of our post colonial society.

            No matter how much we try to distance ourselves from him.

            He is us.

            The British Empire, The US global hegemon, white supremacy, global policeman, gun culture, justified violence, the rightful avenger, cultural genocide, actual genocide, unending war, war, war war.

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/93425398/education-minister-to-shut-down-guns-in-schools-after-army-gave-rifles-to-children
          • Jenny - How to get there?The 19.2.1.1.3

            5 April 2019 at 6:44 am

            No meaning in the misspelling of Anders Brevik’s first name. I didn’t look up the exact spelling. However, his surname is burned into the collective conscience as a synonym for fascist hate. As this terrorists name should be.
    • Anne 19.3

      4 April 2019 at 6:35 pm

      I read on one news outlet it was 38 counts of attempted murder.
      • Andre 19.3.1

        4 April 2019 at 6:45 pm

        Stuffed sez 39. With other charges still being considered.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111805695/further-murder-charges-for-man-arrested-over-terror-attack
    • millsy 19.4

      5 April 2019 at 10:56 am

      I’m picking that they are going to offer him a deal, in which he pleads guilty to 40 counts of murder in return for no terror charges being laid (and possibly life without parole off the table).
20. Jenny - How to get there? 20

    4 April 2019 at 8:04 pm

    [the terrorist] should be charged as a terrorist

    Way to go to infantilise the debate
21. Jenny - How to get there?The 21

    5 April 2019 at 6:58 am

    Don’t get me wrong. I admire the Prime Minister’s personal decision, for her to not personally say his name. It was dignified and apt as fitting our premier, and leading citizen.

    But it is not writ.

    Our Premier is not Kim Jong Un, her personal preference should not be imposed or self imposed on us.

    If Kim Jong Un started wearing miss-matched socks tomorrow the whole nation would be wearing miss-matched socks the next day.

    While I admire the Prime Minister’s stand.

    What we must avoid is the personality cult. What may be right for her, may not be right for us.

    When the Prime Minister of New Zealand says, “the terrorist” just by her position we know who she means.

    But for the rest of us it is not so clear, there have been so many terrorists. Saying the “the terrorist” elevates this terrorist to a special rank.

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