Open mike 04/07/2024

36 comments on “Open mike 04/07/2024 ”

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1. Ad 1

   4 July 2024 at 9:31 am

   How's the feedback to Labour from Aucklanders going?

   Anyone here involved?
2. joe90 2

   4 July 2024 at 9:50 am

   She seems nice.

   /

   A justice of the peace retired not long after ordering a young mother to remove a scarf, worn in solidarity with Palestinians.

   Barbara Moses, a prominent member of the Jewish community, refused to verify the woman’s divorce papers until she put away her black-and-white keffiyeh.

   The incident, at Remuera Library in March, was referred to the Royal Federation of NZ Justices’ Associations, the Ministry of Justice and Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith.

   https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350322920/justice-peace-resigns-after-ordering-young-mother-remove-palestinian-scarf

   https://archive.li/ePXxx
   • Sanctuary 2.1

     4 July 2024 at 10:55 am

     Good job she retired, if you can't do your job impartially then fuck off.
     • Bearded Git 2.1.1

       4 July 2024 at 10:58 am

       +100 Sanc.
   • tWig 2.2

     4 July 2024 at 11:24 am

     Worthwhile reading the end of the story, which gives Moses's account. She says she asked her to take off the scarf because she felt unsafe. Tangling up pro-Palestinian support with anti-semitism is the emotional tangle she seems caught up in.
     • Sanctuary 2.2.1

       4 July 2024 at 11:48 am

       Hang about though, isn't old Barbs the wife of this guy?

       https://www.goodreturns.co.nz/article/976520434/obituary-controversial-adviser-dies-at-80.html

       She seemed to feel quite unsafe about the fallout back then as well.

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/kerre-woodham-think-again-barbara/PBKYZWEVH6Y4JLW3NWOVM3GEGU/

       And yes, that is the notorious local Zionist apologist Juliet Moses hanging on to her Mum’s arm.
   • Bryan Dods 2.3

     4 July 2024 at 12:39 pm

     Moses is the family name.

     After reading the The Post link it looks as though Barbara made an 11th Commandment.

     What a classic example of bigotry.
   • SPC 2.4

     4 July 2024 at 7:50 pm

     DPF has a post on Kiwblog today making the case that because some Jews see the river to the sea chant as anti-Zionist, it should be seen as anti-Semite.

     https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/07/greens_believe_in_sensitivity_for_everyone_but_jews.html

     Because, some see it that way, is the classic launch to justifying censorship of speech. Given DPF does not support restraint on free speech, it is an insincere criticism of the Green co-leader.

     River to the sea..

     Both Jews and Palestinian Arabs have sought a river to the sea state since the end of the Ottoman empire. However The UN devised a partition because Arabs opposed Jewish migration.

     There are Jews who support a unitary river to the sea state (some with Palestinians as citizens, others a continuing river to the sea occupation and others WB Palestinians in self governing townships associated with Jordan with Gaza a separate state (however this is under review because of the offshore gas, so might be delayed until the fields are depleted).

     DPF seems to support a continuing river to the sea occupation.

     https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/07/hamas_and_terrorism_still_wildly_popular_with_palestinians.html

     Polls also show a majority of Israelis do not support two states. And some members of the coalition government support the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and seizing land of Lebanon to the Litani river. Netanyahu has never supported a Palestinian state (he opposed the Oslo Accords).

     It seems the Palestinians have become the Kurds, a people without a state. Until they are led by those who want a state, rather than the defeat of Israel, they will not have one. Their champions Iran and to a lesser extent Turkey, Syria and Iraq deny the Kurds a state. Saladin lies in his grave (his son spent decades trying to dismantle one pyramid and gave up).
3. Sanctuary 3

   4 July 2024 at 11:08 am

   Marxist philosopher Richard Seymour is damning on the Democratic party and Biden today –

   "…The most powerful man in the world, entrusted with the commission of great crimes of state, ushered into his candidacy for a second term by a Democratic leadership desperate to avoid a real primary, is and evidently has been for some time incapable of tying his own shoelaces, or colouring inside the lines, or remembering the president’s name. His condition, despite an omerta observed by whispering courtiers and lobby journalists that wouldn’t be out of place in Pyongyang, been impossible to completely hide. But still, knowing his opponent is a television sadist who makes the audience laugh like dogs by deriding weakness, his viziers shuffle him into the studio when he is clearly in a fugue state, and push him out in front of the cameras, somehow not thinking to plead illness and cancel….

   …Because the bipartisan gerontocracy, having so efficiently selected for mediocrity, obedience and venality among its juniors that it trusts no one else with the historical consciousness necessary to run the state, and clings to the reins of power, crying: from my cold dead hands!.."
   • Ad 3.1

     4 July 2024 at 12:45 pm

     Imagine if Republican Senators had the "courage" to rail against Trump like the Democrats and their "theorists" are to Biden.

     Democrats are losing by defeating themselves.
     • Bearded Git 3.1.1

       4 July 2024 at 2:59 pm

       I watched the first hour of the debate (that was all I could stomach)….Biden has to go.
     • bwaghorn 3.1.2

       4 July 2024 at 5:49 pm

       Kinda the highlights the difference between left and right, the right unite behind greed for riches and power,

       The left pull themselves apart with honesty and ideology
4. newsense 4

   4 July 2024 at 12:09 pm

   Labour slowly losing support on the media and housing I think. I can see the same happening on the cancer drugs issue. The Nats’ll bleed short term, but long term they’ll have enough of a fix the issue(s) won’t be a live one come the next election.

   Goldsmith looks to be a capable minister and is running the Nats side of the two track with ACT very well on the media. Similarly on housing noises that prices have dropped and the minister isn’t unhappy will play well with the youth, even with massive asterisks attached.

   Remembering that the key thing here is not to change everyone’s minds, but to change enough to win the next election, or to neutralise an apparently contentious issue so that few, if any votes are decided by it.

   Labour had a chance to hammer home their wins here. I think the same way that the polls were kind of okay for a little while after Hipkins took over, Labour had a bit of an opportunity. Here the Nats started out right and are now taking a bit to the left to cover all bases. Hipkins moved the party right, but did nothing to excite the base.

   Goldsmith seems like a David Parker, but with leadership support.

   Labour’s public face has been Kieran McAnulty and occasionally Barbara Edmonds, but the Nats are in to their solid middle order, the above and Collins ,and the pitch is flattening out. I know a test cricket analogy is risky, but how can Labour counter this and did they make the most of the new ball and a green pitch?
   • tc 4.1

     4 July 2024 at 12:56 pm

     Start with a new ball as hipkins is damaged goods then pitch left.

     IMO his arrogance cost them any chance with the captains calls on wealth tax and he didnt properly sell 3 waters or the other policies remaining after his policy bonfire.

     As you state they had a chance to hammer home their wins and didnt. Epic fail.
   • tWig 4.2

     4 July 2024 at 3:50 pm

     I find Hipkins still credible (see BigHairyNews, from 3-33 min). What he is leading currently is a bottom-up consult with Labour members. There are enough Labour spokespersons, like McNulty and Willie Jackson, who come out swinging. That's the sign of a collaborative leader, who (re-)builds strong teams.

     To my ear, a lot of the 'Hipkins is a poor opposition leader' actually comes from right-leaning commentators.
     • newsense 4.2.1

       4 July 2024 at 4:09 pm

       I guess I wanted to see perhaps a few obvious lines drawn loudly in the sand.

       We will never accept shady back room deals approved by fiat. We will repeal the legislation. We reserve the right to cancel projects approved or to seek further costs to mitigate the affect on the community.

       We will keep the freight rail connection to the Mainland open!

       We will set up a fair advertising revenue stream to keep NZ content funded and locally available. We don’t work for big corporations in the States!

       Except better than those…

       Something to lead the conversation so that if they adopt it you can say you’re glad they’re taking our ideas- cut out the middle man and elect us. Or a point of difference if they don’t.

       The polls were positive, set the agenda.
     • Vivie 4.2.2

       4 July 2024 at 7:59 pm

       tWig – I agree with you. As I have previously commented, blaming Chris Hipkins for Labour's election loss seems simplistic. Evidently most people weren't voting for a capital gains tax or a wealth tax, because more would have voted for Te Pāti Māori or the Green Party if these were the main policies of concern. Clearly many people voted against their own interests.

       Huge donations assisted National with a relentless attack campaign against Labour. According to information in the following link, in 2023 National received $10,383,230.39 in donations.

       https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/political-parties-in-new-zealand/party-donations-and-loans-by-year/

       tc – How could Chris Hipkins "properly sell 3 waters or the other policies remaining after his policy bonfire" in the face of a constant, misleading attack by the Right, which appealed to many voters' fears, prejudices and resentment towards Maori?

       "If we subtract negative posts from positive posts, about 63 percent more Labour posts included positive self-presentation than negative attacks. In comparison, when we do the same for National, it had a net positivity score of just 5.5 percent…..

       Negative campaigning criticises socially relevant topics, uses stereotypical traits, highlights shortcomings as well as criticises and attacks qualities and behaviour of parties, politicians, and related issues. Exaggerations and evoking negative emotions such as fear, envy, blame, and anger are also considered as negative campaigning".

       https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/news/2023/10/negative-campaiging-in-the-2023-new-zealand-election

       Following repeated challenges about the affordability of National's tax plan from Labour, the CTU, the media, and analysis by economists, Nicola Willis admitted the following:

       https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-national-admits-it-knew-all-along-its-maximum-tax-cuts-would-only-go-to-3000-households.html

       It seems many people knowingly voted for a party that lied by omission and implication, about the supposed benefits of a major policy; also likely due to resentment over Labour's planned water services reforms and the COVID-19 mandates, which reportedly saved the lives of about 20,000 people.

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/499516/new-zealand-s-covid-19-response-saved-20-000-lives-research

       Chris Hipkins has a higher approval rating than other MPs, so why are supposed Labour supporters suggesting that he should be replaced?

       https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/26/poll-hipkins-outscores-luxon-in-approval-ratings
       • newsense 4.2.2.1

         5 July 2024 at 8:19 pm

         This is…

         we should be able to point to current leadership, not re-litigate the tax issue or other pre-election issues.

         There are (were?) a lot of things that Labour can clearly oppose and in fact lead on.

         There was momentum in the country when it wanted to hear the alternative.

         Waiting for the Tories to destroy themselves with arrogance so you can run a fairly RW third way is not a strategy. And a guy whose sales pitch is former human rights lawyer is starting from a better place than previous government bovver boy and border enforcer.

         Part of the credit Goldsmith is getting should be Labour’s.

         And if Hipkins doesn’t want criticism he’s in the wrong job. The moment there’s no criticism he’s failed utterly and no one cares anymore.

         He needs a Labour team for the whole country which he leads, not a safe Chippy team he has vetted. Labour needs to go further left than his personal politics. We can see the Stanfords, Bishops, Collins and Goldsmiths. They are getting comfortable in office. Who’s making them uncomfortable? Mitchell has been messing up- is he being pressured?

         Listening is all very well, but with the resource management overhaul we are now seeing productive land as fair game for crap developments that are not well served by public transport or infrastructure. Surely Labour doesn’t need to wait on that? Just cutting the rural/urban border is massive and unnecessary. Haven’t all the councils just done these unitary plans?

         There was a lot of public consultation on the resource management bill, right? Does it need to be redone to have a position?

         On Auckland you need to get Michael Wood back on side and back as MP in waiting. Hipkins looked best when he and his Auckland MPs and councilors turned out post the flooding. There is a Labour history of service at local and state level from Goff bequeathed to Wood. Whatever BS it was was not a hanging offense and Hipkins is equally culpable of failed leadership in not managing it. The same way he was connected to Mallard and the Clark Labour government, so is Michael Wood. Starting from scratch there is a massive ask. Being able to say I knew something was up with the flooding because I went and checked our local stream is credibility.

         Now he’s got no core Auckland team, just a Westie one. Now he’s cap in hand asking Wayne Brown about electorates which have been Labour’s for a long long long time.

         Get the Auckland team back together and get the ground game functioning.

         If there’s no alternative, what happened in Italy will happen here. The far right will jag right, and the right will cover the centre.

         No one will want a fiscal hawk party of the left without a team of diverse experience and skills, if compassionate conservatism is winning the day, they’ve got tax cuts and the searing missteps are being corrected or somewhat smoothed over by experienced and relatively likeable ministers.

         The PM is inexperienced, but has some strong team members who are relishing power. What’s Labour got? Without government resources and out in the cold. The resources are their people. Give them something to rally around. Or at least communicate some clear points of opposition. And stick a few lines in the sand when the government does something wrong. Cutting all of Seymour’s play ministry could be a start. The bureau of bureaucracy to count the bureaucrats. No thanks.
     • SPC 4.2.3

       4 July 2024 at 8:15 pm

       Bill English polled well after the 2017 defeat, as did Bridges till the lockdown. They were waiting for NZF to fall in 2020.

       The CofC is dependent on NZF (never more than one term in government) staying above 5%.

       Goff should have stayed leader after 2011 and moved on if defeated in 2014 (division has a cost). Moore would have won in 1993 under MMP, Clark won at the second go.
   • bwaghorn 4.3

     4 July 2024 at 5:53 pm

     Similarly on housing noises that prices have dropped and the minister isn’t unhappy will play well with the youth, even with massive asterisks attached.

     Got to have a job to be able to afford a house, the economy is tanking , unemployment is rocketing, national applied a tourniquet to stem perceived bleeding of government spending but are to stupid to realise if you don't release it the limb will rot and kill its owner
   • SPC 4.4

     4 July 2024 at 8:25 pm

     Labour should not oppose for the sake of it.

     It can agree on granny flats, on media negotiating with on line platforms use of content and having a tax on digital advertising as well (- a stick, the size dependent on online platforms acting in good faith).

     And they should criticise such as on cancer and lack of action on anti-stalking legislation to get better outcomes. And on the need for rail enabled ferries.

     Prices have dropped because of the number of homes consented in 2022 and now coming on market. This includes rentals. Labour should make this clear.
5. Tiger Mountain 5

   4 July 2024 at 12:09 pm

   That “Joe has to go” becomes more obvious by the minute–not to forget multi thousands of butchered Palestinians, that he could have saved with a phone call if so inclined.

   The Yoo Ess Ayy is on a dark road towards authoritarianism given the millions of alienated non voters, industrial strength Gerrymandering, voter suppression of myriad kinds–some states forbid giving queuing voters a bottle of water! for chrissakes, and a bent Electoral College and FPTP system.

   The only hope is demographic change with millions of eligible younger potential voters coming on stream, and maybe even MAGA women will vote on the basis of the Roe vs Wade roll back of female rights.
   • Ad 5.1

     4 July 2024 at 12:45 pm

     You may as well be running Republican script.
   • Dennis Frank 5.2

     4 July 2024 at 1:04 pm

     The only hope is

     I'm hoping that Biden's doing a machiavellian strategy: play the fool by simulating a mental defect. Worked like a dream for Trump so no surprise if Biden's controller is coping the formula. Plan B: run an AI cyborg at the convention as a positive alternative to tempt the progressives.

     You could program it to do a tap and dance routine when it gets up onstage to front the media. Yanks love that shit – been swallowing it since the 19th century.
   • Obtrectator 5.3

     4 July 2024 at 4:01 pm

     "The only hope is demographic change with millions of eligible younger potential voters coming on stream …. "

     That's making the rather large assumption that there'll be a candidate allowed to run and for whom they can vote (if indeed they're still eligible to vote at all). When did Poots last allow a real opponent into the contest?
6. newsense 6

   4 July 2024 at 12:51 pm

   Smaller apartments are not family homes. Reducing minimum apartment size doesn’t solve the housing crisis. It makes hen crates for people and trading chips for property investors, stalling until foreign investors can buy them to cram in foreign students.

   Before we get too carried away with flooding the market once more we need to make sure we have the correct insurance and materials so that people aren’t entirely invested and left high and dry. They don’t buy a house, see it written off by a disaster and then have their life put on hold for years while their capital is held ransom by councils and insurance companies.

   We don’t want to take people from old mouldy housing and put them into new sunless soon to-be-mouldy ground floor apartments that are too small for their 3 seater sofa and their washing.

   Get it right first time, don’t make people pay their savings to fix the mistakes made in haste and to stand still.

   Agree with Hipkins here, but curiously only the sales pitch (made uninterrupted on Morning Report) made it to the midday news, not the response.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/521250/loosening-build-rules-comes-with-big-risks-chris-hipkins
   • tc 6.1

     4 July 2024 at 1:26 pm

     RNZ know where their breads buttered.
     • tWig 6.1.1

       4 July 2024 at 3:56 pm

       And again, criticism of Hipkins being weak, where some of the issue is media story choice. If you don't make an emotive, fact-free critique, a al National before the election, then you don't get the front-page soundbite.
       • newsense 6.1.1.1

         4 July 2024 at 5:05 pm

         Criticising RNZ for running Bishop’s sales pitch at least twice without proper context! No criticism of Hipkins here.
       • gsays 6.1.1.2

         4 July 2024 at 6:57 pm

         He is weak.

         Gotta talk to Aucklanders to find out what his values and principles are for next election.
       • newsense 6.1.1.3

         5 July 2024 at 8:29 pm

         It’s his job to get coverage. And his shadow ministers. And it’s a difficult time with a splintering media, sure. And then the gatekeepers who are left in jobs.

         But the message doesn’t have to get to everyone, just the voters likely to change. But the message has to be symbolic as well as spoken. A large diverse, competent team, some fresh and some experienced, harrying the government’s fly by the seat of their pants approach, behind the boss.
7. Georgecom 7

   4 July 2024 at 2:33 pm

   The COC wants standardised testing for all primary students. One more step of requiring schools to report students achievement against national norms and we are bacl to their national standards policy of 2008. Bacl then it did little at all to lift literacy and numery levels but costs 10s of millions of dollars. Are we again seeing Act and National about to waste a load of time and money on a failed scheme, as we are seeing with a return of charter schools.
   • aj 7.1

     4 July 2024 at 4:57 pm

     I thought this was a wonderful response.

     https://x.com/McNghton1/status/1808331810671325522
     • aj 7.1.1

       4 July 2024 at 5:44 pm

       Unless they’re being tested on whether they can open their lunchbox, know where their toilets are, how they cope being surrounded by hundreds of other freaked out beings & being away from their parents for six hours a day, every day for ten weeks; can we let them settle first?
8. Bearded Git 8

   4 July 2024 at 2:55 pm

   The Sun is backing Starmer. Says it all.

   https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/03/the-sun-support-labour-general-election
   • Obtrectator 8.1

     4 July 2024 at 3:56 pm

     Follow the money power. Turncoats.

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