Better, but a potential long-term threat that’s relatively nebulous or worse, seems too vast to deal with as an individual, isn’t enough to get me out of chair to vote. But me personally, I don’t have kids or grand-kids.
You said a few days ago that the most urgent matter for NZ was to raise the living standards for the larger community. http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-03062013/#comment-642782 The Greens’ policies would arguably come closest to contributing to such a project. Certainly closer than National’s, who are into concentrating wealth into few hands, and also closer than Labour’s, who seem to be too scared of offending National voters to commit themselves to anything that might bring about real change.
Hello Olwyn. Yes, I did say that. As an arbitrary figure, let’s be ambitious and say the bottom 65%. The other 35% are doing ok and can take care of themselves, in my view, although the question of universal benefits vs. means-testing is going to continue to pose questions for all parties.
I don’t count myself in that 35% by the way, nor was I born into it. Personally, I’ve never voted for a conservative/tory party in my life, unless you want to include the Lange goverment… and to be fair, to those of us who were young at the time, we thought we were getting something else. But that’s history now.
Say for instance, I’m a disengaged or soft-left voter (which I’m not really, despite all appearances and assumptions) who is concerned about living standards and public services, then how would you specifically address these concerns? Because I think most people will respond to issues surrounding pollution, building standards or resources, but if you come straight out and ask that people that are already having a tough time to save the planet from some future fate, then it’s not so persuasive because it’s an abstracted reality that isn’t going to help them now. That doesn’t make them a sociopath; it makes them human.
It doesn’t need to be either living standards and public services or climate change responses. The NZ Green Party is tackling both. And some like Jenny think heir strong focus on poverty means they are selling out.
Many of us realise that the Greens need to put a lot of stress on issues of poverty, housing, retaining assets etc, because the general public tends to associated them most with environmental issues. Actually, the Greens, following the earlier Values party, see all those issues as part of a whole. However, you will note that the two party leaders’ speeches last weekend focused on the key government’s divisive cronyist support of the well-off, and on child poverty.
Meanwhile Kennedy Graham’s climate change conference at parliament is coming up on Friday.
…some like Jenny think (t)heir strong focus on poverty means they are selling out.
Karol, Why do you keep misrepresenting my position? I applaud the Green Party focus on poverty. What I condemn is their down playing of climate change.
The NZ Green Party is tackling both.
karol
In saying that the Green party is tackling both Karol. How about supplying some evidence?
Furrball: If you are a soft left voter, a statement like this might resonate with you, âWeâve got news for SkyCity: unlike other political parties we didnât take your campaign donations and we didnât go to your corporate box at the rugby.
âYour tools of crony capitalism donât work with us ⊠and if the people of New Zealand tell us to turn off the tap on your blood money, then we bloody well will.â
No, it does not tell you exactly what you will gain from the Green Party, but it does outline a general position, in relation to which a party can be held to account. It also suggests that the speaker, Russell Norman, is prepared to put up a fight on behalf of people who are not rich enough to be included among the cronies.
In comparison, promises that are made without an accompanying general position can end up meaning something very different than what they first seem to suggest.
I see you are still getting the hang of the Standard, Furrball.
I doubt any of us here really care who you, or any other individual, votes for. Those of us on the left would prefer most voters vote left, but I doubt many, if any come here to evangelise or convert or solicit individual votes for a particular party. We come here to talk politics. If you’re wanting “quotes” from political parties from which to choose the best deal for you, I suggest you find and then compare each party’s stated policies.
No, you’re the one who is misunderstanding me. I’m trying to get a sense of how those who seem enthusiastic about the Green party and its policies can communicate and persuade effectively with those beyond its base.
Want to get beyond 10%? Or is this board just an echo-chamber?
It was clear where you are coming from. There’s more to party policy than gaining the treasury benches.
You seem to me to be still to be looking to apply individualistic “neoliberal” marketing policies. Many of us want to get beyond slick managerialist marketing approaches and want a return to conviction politics.
Also, what’s the point of Greens being in government, if they aim to extend their vote by ditching their principles? I want them there to hold the lost tribe of Labour Caucus leadership to account. An underlying value through all the Greens mission statements etc, is that they are for the collective, and don’t elevate self-interested individualism above the collective good.
The Greens actually have a very good approach to getting their policies into the media. I reckon Laila Harre is probably doing a very good job.
There was a major lesson from Clark’s government of 9 years. Pandered to the centrist vote, and self interest, and put individualistic “neoliberalism” into a holding pattern. Then along came Key’s government and ruthlessly undid any good they did.
We need to think beyond the short term goal of just getting into government. there’s too much at stake for the future.
Times are changing. Time to return to conviction politics and to engage honestly and directly with the disengaged (non) voters. More slick and cynical managerial marketing approaches is just using the methods that have already resulted in disengaged voters.
Whose echo chamber? Your approach seems like the echo chamber of the current Labour caucus leadership – locked into their own managerialist bubble.
No, communication isn’t necessarily about ‘neo-liberalism’, nor is marketing a policy, it’s a technique used in politics since the dawn of time, although it hasn’t always been called that. I’ve already seen the dismay here and elsewhere, when David Shearer is perceived to have failed to communicate effectively. Conviction isn’t enough on its own.
But I think you’re on the same wavelength that I’m making when you say that ‘to engage honestly and directly with the disengaged (non) voters.’… and given that environmental issues are usually low on many voter’s priorities, compared to the economy and jobs, health, education, housing etc. my point is, how do you engage directly with those who are disengaged and less likely to vote, or to those wavering or undecided. Because not all of them have the time or inclination to read a manifesto, but they may pay attention to their mates, their colleagues, their family etc…
And here’s a question for you: What makes you think that extending the Green vote means ditching principles?
Extending the Green vote doesn’t necessarily mean ditching their principles. It depends how it’s done.
The Greens are working on it.
Yes, I agree communication is the issue. But I don’t think some top down branding exercise is the way.
Communication is two-way. Contemporary marketing approaches tend to be more of a one-way process, attempting to control and shift perceptions and behaviour in pre-decided ways. And, as the MSM tends to follow the corporate way, genuine communications between a party and the communities needs to be done in through other platforms, as well as on the ground in the community.
The Greens and Mana have been much more engaged with two way processes, on the ground and, especially for the Greens, using social media. Dialogue and conversation are more open processes than marketing approaches and slogans: they can be messier. While some succinct core messages are helpful, they are useful only as far as they provide some coherence to the wider processes.
The Labour Caucus is aiming to use marketing techniques and the MSM to communicate with the “centrist” middle-classes, largely through one-way processes.
As I understand it, in the past, the Labour Party’s strength was in the way it engaged with communities on the ground and via it’s membership. These days the Caucus has retreated into their Wellington bubble.
The Greens are far more connected and engaged with their membership in a democratic way.
Furball, raise a point that illustrates part of a policy that you find lacking then perhaps someone who supports that policy will enter into a dialogue on the topic. (also works with news music art and science for example) If you just want stimulus response sound-bites gift wrapped with pretty sales tags, I suspect this is not the right place for your political edification.
See, characterising my question as ‘stimulus response sound-bites gift wrapped with pretty sales tags’ is little more than a strawman designed to deflect rather than address, to trivialise rather than engage.
What’s more, it’s a fairly cliquest attempt to define what the purpose of any community should be about, ruling out discussion or perspectives that don’t meet some ill-defined and arbitary standards known only to the cognoscenti. In fact, it comes across as fairly elitist and vaguely oppressive.
Furrball, if you want to have a conversation – raise a topic and make an argument.
Your supercilious attitude toward this community just makes you look like a dick in my opinion.
Yep, hir posts seem like those of someone who has parachuted in here, without fully familiarising hirself with the community and the kind of on-going conversations, to tell us that shi knows better. Kind of seems like lecturing us rather than engaging sincerely in the conversation; and without any effort to gain an in depth understanding of the current context and where people here are at in dealing with it.
That’s bound to get antagonistic responses.
Underneath there seems to be a different political philosophy, involving a top down approach – more akin to the current Labour Caucus than that of the Green MPs, IMO.
Mana and The Greens are trying more to engage with the disengaged communities in a bottom up way.
Mana is taking the lead there. But the Greens also have been making very good use of social media too engage, as well as with their community engagements, and with their membership, and reaching out to non-members through various networks..
The Greens used the asset sales petition process well in engaging on the ground, IMO.
There’s a clear misunderstanding where I’m coming from. At no point have I advocated top down structures or organising. In fact, I’ve already signposted the work that Arnie Graf is doing with the Labour Party in the UK in order to rebuild and reshape how membership and the party works along community-building lines. And it’s interesting to hear how you think the Green party are engaging in communicating, particularly to non-members and the third sector.
I’ll also add that I’m not generally here to insult people or to cast aspersions upon them, but I’m curious to tease out some people’s thinking in order to learn more about leftwing politics in New Zealand and occasionally, I have some points to make, which I would never expect to meet universal peer approval.
It’s easy to call people dicks or accuse them of thinking they knowing better, but I try to avoid it if I can. The only recent point which seemed absurd to me was being challenged on the fact that I was posting from London, which struck me as irrelevant to what I had posted. Want to tear people down? No problem. If it helps some to feel better, that’s cool too.
Furrball, you seemed to be the one making something of posting from London, and seemed to imply you had some superior knowledge as a result of your activities there.
Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, and it was just the result of jumping in quickly into the forum, but that’s how it came across. Your first comments did focus on where you thought the NZ left was going wrong (at least online), rather than looking like someone trying to find out what is happening here.
Reading “I’m in London” as signifying a sense of superiority rather than seeking deeper locally-grounded information reflects less on Furrball than on those making such assumptions. Same with painting political communication as ‘top-down’. Fortunately the Greens have grown beyond that.
One for Furrball: the Greens’ economic policies promise smart higher-paid jobs in sustainable industries that will keep our young people here rather than send more of them overseas. That may interest some voters, if they can get past the smears about ‘printing money’.
No, stating that I was posting from London was meant to signal that I wasn’t on the ground, for instance, and couldn’t get into the weeds of political personalities or current events… and initially, all I was interested in doing was linking some hopefully useful work that’s being done in the Labour party over here with Arnie Graf that has some potential bearing on the future of the NZ Labour party, if it’s to remain relevant… as well as my communications work in the voluntary sector and some awareness of some processes within Organising For America.
None of this is top down, because it won’t fly anymore, especially with those in their teens to perhaps the mid-thirties. I sense we’re on common ground.
Then, I outlined from my perspective what I thought was the core issue at stake in this coming election which was to do something about comparatively poor living standards which embraces wages, jobs, tenancy rights, public services and a whole bunch aside. Some took this as an attack on New Zealand, which is just utterly pitiful bollocks, to be frank… and personalising it to a degree which ultimately is boring and unproductive.
Finally, trying to put tease out some thinking behind those who support the Greens and trying to understand winning but broad succinct ideas that have a relevance to everyday concerns, instead of being nagged with phrases akin to:
âą you should care
âą you’re a sociopath if you vote out of self-interest
âą the planet’s going to burn/drown
In themselves, they’re not vote winners… and they’re not persuasive to those outside the base. In fact, they seem more aimed at enforcing orthodoxy and conformity, which sorta runs against bottom-up organising.
I’ve got to split. Deadline for tomorrow. Thanks for everyone’s posts. Be excellent to each other.
It wasn’t just “I’m in London” but a reference to the work shi has been doing there associated with some other statements, implying that gave hir a very good insight into how political parties in NZ should be working.
You’ll have to forgive them, Furball – many of the commentors here tend to the ideologically purist rather than a more pragmatic and ad hoc approach. For all their talk of rejecting top-down models, they do seem to cling to a vertical model of academic privilege moralising to the working class about the latter’s ignorance of theory. You can sort of tell by the way they are claiming you have joined unprepared and are therefore ignorant – a classic example of protection of privilege.
If I were to promote Green Party policy, I would focus on its horizontal organisational structure, and I think it would need to show some of its initiatives working on a small scale basis first. Basically I think the strength of the Greens is that they offer something different to the dictatorial model of the larger parties. Their biggest weakness is that they have little in the way of concrete policy other than a waving of hands and abstract nouns.
Fb is being a bit disengenuous. Early on shi was making assumptions about the left in NZ, promoting a “professional” business-like approach for the left, and aggressively dismissing those who disagree as reactionary old Trotskyists. Later this was followed by comments about those opposed as being ideologically-driven and talking here in an echo chamber.
Populuxe1-from your later post
“Admittedly thereâs a lot utopian goals, but itâs all very light on how to fund it and the steps to be taken to get there.”
To be fair, that can be said of every single political party in NZ. Most worryingly and perhaps most obviously by our current Government whose varuious policy pages read like rejected Tui billboards.
…….You can sort of tell by the way they are claiming you have joined unprepared and are therefore ignorant â a classic example of protection of privilege.
I’m not “moralising to the working class”, I am working class.
Someone, please sell me the Green Party and its policies in terms of my self-interest without appealing to my conscience or my morals.
If you were pondering this in NZ you would find you are not alone. Many Kiwis are finally having some serious internal debates about the relevance of Green’s policies to everyday life. In no way should any criticism of how you raise the issue be indicative of seeing the issue itself as not being important. Policies matter, your own life matters. The Venn intersection of those two realms deserves clarity. Clarity in your own internal reasoning and for actively sharing the eventual understanding of policies that is critical to political growth.
This is a fundamental question any voter should rightfully engage in. The quagmire of crony-ism we currently call a Parliament illustrates how very few actually do. Lack of basic comprehensions of policy impact is undoubtedly at fault. I suspect this is an educational failing (a failure by design?) more to do with the lack of ‘part of your day’ socio-political culture in NZ. This deficiency is so comparably existent throughout most modern Democracies it is hard to believe it was not a deliberate incremental manipulation of society. But I digress.
How a person deciphers policy is hugely important to their life and their vote. Obviously the success and failures of representational democracy is reliant upon those enmasse decisions having some stability and this desperately needs discourse on the group-think level of comprehension. Blogs are challenging, often volatile places, like all new media, they are evolving. It is perhaps one of the first political tools where input directly and immediately contributes to the output.
Why not submit a post outlining your particular questions about the Green’s policies and how they relate to your self-interest? In fact no-one else can, because as you pointed out , you are asking for others’ opinions on what your self-interests are. If we do not plainly understand the problem a policy presents to your self-interest, how can anyone help explain it to you?
+1 Yeah Furrball I know you’re a tall poppy and all but js has just given you an idea of how to go about getting a conversation going – it’s pretty basic really.
js
Isn’t Furrball in the UK? I wonder why the deep and abiding concern to find out about Greens policies? The questions seem like an idle pursuit somehow filling in time annoying people who are stupid policy wonks. Maybe it is planned to have a special vote, if that’s what overseas votes are called. Perhaps by the time the election happens late next year, some mature understanding of NZ politics will have been gained.
Oh get over yourself, it’s tiresome. Furball will be getting most of their information the same way most of us do – by internet or by broadcasts available over the internet. Living here doesn’t make one more informed, and in any case what’s with all this nationalistic hating on expats? It’s ugly.
The snotty tone of the prism comment above – but why do I even bother? You deliberately cultivate obtuseness the way John Key cultivates his smarmy grin, and for much the same reasons
You have to be very careful inferring “tone” from the written word, Pop.
What you call ‘cultivating obtuseness’ is really just me asking you to indicate the basis for your conclusions, which more often than not turns out to be nothing more than some preconception you arrived with fully formed, and nothing whatsoever to do with anything anyone else said or did.
The above is a textbook example. No hate is one display, if it was you’d have pointed to it immediately.
Whenever you find yourself inferring “tone” from a comment, it’s advisable to stop, take a few breaths, and read it again calmly and slowly. You’ll be surprised how often the tone is overlaid by the reader.
An easy mistake to make, one most of us are guilty of from time to time, and potentially a very unhealthy one if left unchecked.
As someone who was an expat living overseas for a couple of decades, I would concur with Prism and don’t see any ex-pat hating there. When overseas, I kept up an interest in NZ, but in no way saw myself as knowledgeable enough to comment in any depth on the (then) current situation in NZ. I stopped voting in NZ elections after I took up residence in the UK, because I felt I no longer was in touch with the situation here, and would barely be impacted by the nature of government here.
I did not begin to get a more comprehensive up-dated understanding of the politics here until I had been living back here for some time.
Because you benefit from living in a healthy, well-educated community rather than having to tolerate the ignorant and be at risk from catching an illness.
By focusing on minimizing poverty and the deleterious effects of same within the community at large, the Greens policies will reduce the amount of tax money spent on healthcare in the short to medium term, and especially over the long term. In turn, this will mean tax money can be spent on other things, which ultimately means you will be able to get a tax cut in the future, or that taxes will not need to rise as much in the future.
“Someone, please sell me the Green Party and its policies in terms of my self-interest without appealing to my conscience or my morals.”
We would need to know more about you Furrball, and what things would meet your self-interest needs. In the meantime, why not look at the GP website, it’s pretty obvious from that what they are about.
For what it’s worth Furball, I reckon you almost raised a reasonable point. But your assumption is wrong. I mean – is the Green Party only appealing to people on the basis of their conscience or morals? I don’t think so.
eg, they have proposed monetary policies that run counter to austerity, which, you might say are an appeal to common sense as well as the collective back pocket. They have proposed putting nurses into schools which, again, is an appeal to common sense as opposed to an appeal to conscience or morals. And there’s the housing policy and so on….
And they do it within a more collective mindset about the experience of, and measures to counter, poverty, while also, most likely engaging those on low incomes.
Not at all Pop. I’m saying that if a party’s well documented and easily accessible philosophies, principles and policies don’t appeal to you, then don’t vote for them.
What makes you think Popper would disagree? He’s mostly famous for his theory of falsifiability, and I don’t see how that applies to what Felix wrote at all.
You should read his “Conjectures and Refutations: The Growth of Scientific Knowledge”. Lack of falsifiability directly applies to felix’s spin on good old fashioned historical determinism that underlies all Greens policy, without the convenience of a five or seven year plan that actually explains how we will bring this brave new environmentally friendly and socialistically utopian world about.
I disagree because you keep talking about Green policy as if it is some consistent, coherent body of philosophies and policies that one can “resonate” with when in fact it is as relativist and adaptive as any other party in pursuit of political influence. Your faith (which it what that is because there are no testible hypotheses involved) that this hotchpotch can bring about a better society is derrived from a combination of neo-Marxist historical determinism and the sulferous whiff of Social Credit lunacy
I’m pretty sure all I said was that the commenter above should vote for the party that best represents them, and that the measures to determine which party that is will be the party’s easily accessible and well documented policies, principles and philosophies.
I have no idea why you’re talking about some faith that I supposedly hold, as none of what I said had anything whatsoever to do with my own preference.
I have read it. It has nothing to do with Felix’s short statement about voting. On the surface, it seems that you haven’t read the post you replied to.
I was referring to the notion one should vote for the party whose philosophy one “resonates” with rather than systematically analysing policy. The arrogant refusal to justify this fits very neatly with Popper’s analysis of Marxism.
Firstly, you don’t even bother to think about, or ask, what Felix meant by ‘resonate’. I figured he meant that one should analyse a party’s policy and candidates and see if it fits. So there is more than a whif of false dichotomy about your whole line of thought.
Secondly, politics is mostly about trust. You need to work out which party and candidates you trust, and yes, that takes ‘faith’. But that is the case no matter who, what, (and how) you decide to support.
Tell us how you make the call, and explain how it isn’t made on ‘faith’ Pop.
“I was referring to the notion one should vote for the party whose philosophy one âresonatesâ with rather than systematically analysing policy.”
Who’s notion is that, Pop? It’s certainly not one drawn from my comments, which specifically mentioned the well documented and easily accessible policies.
I agree with Murray, you don’t seem to have read the comment you’re replying to. Or to put it another way, you’re replying to a comment which only exists in your own mind.
Your cannabis plants will have a higher percentage of organic THC. All beer will be half price and organic, so you’ll never get a hangover again. You will become incredibly sexually attractive overnight. Is that enough?
On a more serious note, I’m starting to really like the Greens. They seem pretty inclusive, have a focus on living standards, and take the environment seriously. They want to do something different about the country’s finances than follow the neoliberal cookbook. If you want to live in a fairer society where fewer people are on the bones of their arse, I think they’re a better bet than any party bigger than them. They also maintain a mixture of activism and parliamentary work.
Yes Karol, indeed it was ! Fingers crossed that we may get some real questions asked of our political “masters”. Much as I respect the urbane Geoff, that’s the problem – – – he’s just too polite to tackle meateaters such as Collins and Joyce.
And Metiria Turei just stood up well under the Hill scrutiny.
Labour-Green, not Labour-led; Kye is the divisive one in that he governs for the wealthy and not those in poverty; Greens meet with Labour regularly, send them some policies, consult on others on a case-by-case basis, and they are working on how they maintain their differences from Labour. And the voters will decide how many Green ministers there’d be in a progressive government.
Thanks, micky. Amd Kevin, while I usually agree with the ATB posts, I disagree with that one. Like micky says, there’s major long term developments happening around the Massey area. It’s being developed as a key hub, with upgrade of the shopping centre etc.
The whole Kumeu are looks to be a rising centre. They will need more and diverse public transport out that way, not less.
To confirm Karol. Swanson station will remain open. Swanson to Waitakere Village will be serviced by busses, there is very little demand there. The demand in Helensville is also very low especially since the North Western Motorway was completed. The headline is not correct although the story is.
OK. Thanks, micky. However, I also think the decision to close Waitakere to Helensville is very short-sighted. I think demand will rise in those areas in the next decade.
Buses will help, but I think passenger rail services need to be extended further north. There needs to be better bus services to and from the Kumeu area.
Sometime ago some thoughts were swapped with a commenter on here about what makes a culture or people indigenous in New Zealand. It was interesting and the upshot gained imo was that indigeneity is something that moves along a sliding timeframe as other peoples and cultures arrive and morph and mix with any pre-existing peoples and cultures, as has happenned to reach the current state of indigineity.
It got mine wee brain to thinking… that means at some point pakeha must also become indigenous to New Zealand. That they become of and from here, the culture has developed into itself independently from its place of origin, despite links back… there are various definitions …
Putting aside for a moment any ideas about the effects that such a state may have on Maori and their current position (for the purpose of clarity of argument)… if this is so and indigeniety moves then at what point in time would pakeha become indigenous to New Zealand? Or has that point already passed? Is it the next generation? Or some more generations off?
…. a short and incomplete take of a big subject ….
I’ve been looking into my family history – the sad reality is that many of my ancestors are serial colonisers, though also sometimes the colonised and/or class-oppressed. But they have been a nomadic lot over the centuries. I can’t say they are indigenous anywhere except maybe somewhere in northern Europe – just mongrels and nomads. Normans, anglo-saxons, celts, vikings, high & low class Scots, Anglo-Irish.
So I don’t, and never will count myself or my extended family as indigenous New Zealander. I don’t think any of my family’s future generations ever will be. I count us as New Zelanders. I’m quite happy with that. What’s the need to creep towards claiming indigenous status?
“Whatâs the need to creep towards claiming indigenous status?”
No need. It is simple curiousity and a desire to explore the intricacies of pakeha in NZ.
Pakeha culture and people here would seem to have developed sufficiently here to be called its own, despite those links back to many other cultures. Pakeha culture is not british, nor irish, nor chinese, nor german. It is a mix of various cultures that has developed in these islands as a result of various migrations and mixings since the first whalers and sealers around 1800. It has also mixed in with Maori culture of course to varying degrees. All of these factors seem to satisfy some of the requirements for a culture and people to call itself its own.
Yep. I’m happy with the term Pakeha. No need to try to usurp indigenous status. My look at the history shows that Pakeha history is what it is – a mix of good and bad – a mongrel culture; a bunch of nomads.
It’s interesting because under the UN indigenous ‘definition’ it relates strongly to peoples who existed in a place prior to the arrival of, essentially, europeans during their colonising wave which swept the world. But the term also strongly incorporates features such as those of belonging to a certain place, having a culture that has developed there, having distinct political, social and other systems, etc.
Of course pakeha did not exist prior to that wave of european colonisation here but in most all other respects it seems the requirements for indigeniety are met. Is it possible to have two or more indigenous peoples in one place (subject to the pre-colonisation point)?
Mate, it just looks like you’re trying to over-ride and usurp the tangata whenua. Giving Pakeha tangata whenua status will just further serve to erase historical memory and and the trauma of Pakeha colonisation. There are two seperate histories. Trying to twist the definitions of “indegenous” to incorporate Pakeha will just blur the historical differences.
Pakeha is what it is – live with it. Tangata whenua have a long painful history that should not be buried.
karol, where have i suggested any of those assumptions of yours? it sounds to me like you don’t like certain questions being asked and that sort of prohibition has a badly potted history across time.
Yes … on the other hand my family has been here since 1832. She arrived from San Francisco and was probably the very first professional midwife in this country. (This is not to discount the fact that Maori women had been looking after their needs in this respect for a very long time, however my ancestors services were in demand and appreciated by both Maori and Pakeha. Her daughter recalls her having a stand-up argument with none other than Hone Heke and winning her case.) Another branch of my mother’s family arrived from the Yukon in 1838. We’ve been her seven generations now.
If you wanted to undo colonisation (a wicked and evil thing according to received wisdom) … exactly where would you send us white trash back to? Where is our whenua tapu?
If you wanted to undo colonisation (a wicked and evil thing apparently) ⊠exactly where would you send us white trash back to? Where is our whenua tapu?
It’s in the history that you articulate. We don’t need to go back to anywhere – just acknowledge the journey and the history.
A place is more than a geographical location. It’s a state of mind, a way of thinking, an understanding.
I think what is being expressed by redlogix and myself is an exploration of pakeha’s place in these islands. It is not a settled issue, yet it is very important to people – just as it is with any people.
This exploration is of course not intended to negate anything concerning Maori – their place and history is acknowledged.
It is at the same time a simple and a complex question. It is important, crucial, it has not been comprehensively answered.
We donât need to go back to anywhere â just acknowledge the journey and the history.
Which is a very fine answer. And which I’d suggest is not too far removed from vto’s first comment:
Of course pakeha did not exist prior to that wave of european colonisation here but in most all other respects it seems the requirements for indigeniety are met.
I don’t think vto was at all suggesting any sort of “erasing from memory”; but eventually with time and intermarriage the past gradually releases it’s grip on the present. For an obvious example, there can be few in modern Britain today who still counts anyone with Norman ancestory as a ‘foreign coloniser’.
The idea that being indigenous is some kind of movable label is wrong imo and often used to diminish cultures, but to what end? Why do it? It is not to raise up the culture attempted to be rammed into that classification, it is to diminish the culture already accepted within that definition – why do that? Sadly it is a continuation of colonisation – you see if you can’t kill off the others you try to assimilate them into your dominant group and if you can’t do that then eventually you try this tactic of making the dominant culture equivalent to the indigenous culture – it is on the same spectrum just a bit further along the line.
…but eventually with time and intermarriage the past gradually releases itâs grip on the present.
Yes and no. Not so much cultural memory…at least, not without it being actively suppressed. And since colonisation here was a process of one culture dominating another instead of a marriage or a synthesis of two (or more) cultures, and since that domination is ongoing, then the past rightfully grips the present in NZ and sometimes even manages to grab it by the balls.
You want to move beyond the bi-furcated reality of NZ? Then decolonise your head and move the institutions of NZ out of the space they currently occupy, radically changing them in the process.
And that second part (if it is to be at all meaningful) requires much more than any PC acknowledgement of Maori culture while maintaining current social/economical/political contexts. It means building new contexts.
Yes … the Normans were foreign colonisers, but modern Britain does not function on the basis that those with Anglo-Saxon heritage have a special place and privilege in the nation’s life.
That is my point. The past does not get erased, but nor is it set in aspic. Time does change things.
The part that confuses me is what it is supposed to change.
Say we agree that Pakeha culture is something that is distinct from settler cultures throughout the former British Empire, that a unique culture has indeed evolved here. (I’m not saying it has or it hasn’t).
So what? How does it change the debate in any way at all?
I don’t know and I don’t think the issue has made it that far yet. We as a country are still working out the position. It is part of an exploration and most explorations do not know where they will end up or what they will find.
What is supposed to change is something that can be answered further down the track, if it needs to be at all…
And if honouring the Treaty means that us Pakehas are forever to be regarded as tangata manuhiri in this land, then on what basis are we to ever develop a true nationhood?
If nothing else the left constantly bemoans how our right wing politicians constantly sell-out this country to foreign interests in one form or another, yet how are we to measure loyalty to a home that we merely perch upon?
This is something Helen Clark understood quite well, the need to build a national identity across the entire community. And where John Key falls so very short.
“Pakehas are forever to be regarded as tangata manuhiri in this land”
Perhaps you should try to understand – guests are honoured – you and your people are honoured – if MÄori go to an area where they don’t come from they are considered tangata manuhiri and they are honoured. It is not an insult – it is a compliment and if you learned a bit about MÄori culture you’d learn that – stop looking at everything through the distorted lens you are currently using red you are better than that imo.
Re honouring the treaty, that has always been a given, even with its problems. As stated recently the call should be to honour the treaty and then improve it, or fix it.
But the treaty is just one part and Redlogix hints at a problem with that, and that is that pakeha are only here due to the treaty and that the treaty underpins our place. I don’t accept that entirely. The treaty has been a starting point, one of the foundation stones for sure, but it is not the sole plank. Pakeha’s place here stems from not just the treaty but also this idea that pakeha culture and pakeha people are now “of here”. Our basis for existence is similar to that of Maori in this regard i.e. we are people of the land as well, though in perhaps a modified form. We are of these islands as much as others. This position has developed with the passage of time.
This is the point which many find uncomfortable I suspect, but it doesn’t negate anybody else or their positions or special status etc. It is simply an acknowledgement that pakeha are rightfully of these lands. We are not guests, we are home. And this position arises separately from the treaty, the English system which came over, current constitutional arrangements, immigration laws, and all of that other formal structure which sits here and there.
This issue is actually solely about pakeha. How have they come to be, how have they developed since arrival, what are they now and where are they heading in the future. Imo it pays to consider this issue independently from Maori and their own place here, despite the intricate tie-up. That is another issue which follows quickly on.
“We are not guests, we are home. And this position arises separately from the treaty”
Your western interpretation of guest is not the same as MÄori. Think of it like rats – westerners often portray rats as dirty and so on but within other cultures a rat is seen differently, for instance the chinese year of the rat says, “People born in this year are expected to possess qualities associated with rats, including creativity, intelligence, honesty, generosity, ambition, a quick temper and wastefulness.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat It is the same rat but viewed differently depending upon culture. Guest is not a derogatory term it is a specific term denoting the relationship between people – many terms in te ao MÄori relate to the relationship between people such as tuakana and so on.
Yes you are home I haven’t read any disputation of that idea but that is a long way away from being indigenous which was your original ‘poser’. You may say that you are home and that status or position is separate from the Treaty – that is your right and some may agree – I disagree.
Seems to me that the whole debate is framed in time and space, as opposed to being seen in a continuum, and the actors are being set upon distinct stages to play set parts…who the players are is but a chance of birth. We the audience view the whole together, through different glasses. As the French would say, “vive la difference”.
Yes you have a good point. I have tried to view a continuum of sorts with the original point around sliding timeframes wrt belonging and when that point arrives.
And yes the French manner of viewing things through a kind of mirror at times highlights things missed – vive la difference indeed.
Why you call yourself white trash is beyond me red – have some pride in your heritage mate – you seem to allude to that pride in your paragraph about your family but for me it gets washed away quite quickly when you use the white trash term.
You could answer your own last question and it would have nothing to do with being indigenous to this land or not.
“She arrived from San Francisco and was probably the very first professional midwife in this country. (This is not to discount the fact that Maori women had been looking after their needs in this respect for a very long time,”
Sorry Red, but I think that does discount Maori midwives. If you had said “and was probably the very first professional pakeha midwife in this country.” you wouldn’t have rendered invisible the nature of Maori midwives at that time.
I would add that there weren’t really any professional European or American midwives at that time, other than that there were competent midwives who got paid in some way for their service. But midwifery itself wasn’t a ‘profession’ then, as we understand the term now.
Awesome story about your ancestor though, I bet there have been many interesting stories in her life.
Karol – I agree with you. Pakeha is unique to Aotearoa-NZ, just as Maori are.
I also think we (Pakeha) still have a long way to go before we reach collectively a real understanding of Maoritanga. It seems to me that we continue to be “two peoples, one nation” living side-by-side with a lack of collective empathy on the Pakeha side.
You might find this link of interest – its just popped up on Scoop News http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC1306/S00002/journey-of-many-thousand-kilometres-puts-marae-on-the-map.htm
Well I know the history, not so much the culture; it wouldn’t be wrong to say most Pakeha in New Zealand don’t know much about it. The wealthier the Pakeha the less likely they are going to know anything about Maori – it shouldn’t be like that, but I find a lot of upper class Pakeha view Maori as dole bludgers, criminals, and dead beats.
And that’s not so new. Some of my grandparents/great grandparents had a similar attitude as soon as they arrived here. It does need to be acknowledged, understood and in the cases of prejudice, challenged.
Very good points and whilst I’m not a ‘blame’ person the fault of all of this misunderstanding and lack of knowledge is the governments of yesterday and today. They had the obligation to create equality but chose a different route – that equality would have meant knowledge about tangata whenua and would have helped us all. It didn’t happen and isn’t happening now but if it did happen it would solve many of the issues we face in this country imo.
I couldn’t get the Herald up on my computer this morning – until just now, and I find there’s another story re Treaty claims in it. As below. All this helps aid our further understanding, Marty Mars, and I agree with you : if we all knew more of what happened in the past between Maori and Govt forces, I think we’d be a lot better off.
“Ngai Tuhoe will today sign their Treaty claim Deed of Settlement with the Crown. So far 62 settlements have been completed.”
I’d just also say that imo MÄori would love people in this country to be interested in their beliefs, ways of thinking and history – absolutely love it. That, if visible, would do more for this country than anything else I can think of, because it would build community and understanding and break down the imposed barriers that are there. It would also address the crooked foundations of this country and set us up for a future we could move towards with pride and it would counter the capitalist, exploitative, neo-liberal agenda that continually tries to cut us all into ever smaller pieces.
Mainly a reply to Marty’s post but couldn’t find a reply button there. Earlier this year my whole workplace spent a day at the local Marae as part of our professional development program. It was a great day enjoyed by all. We learnt a lot about the history of the area, the culture of the local Maori and local myths/legends.
One of the best things about it is we now all feel comfortable going to that Marae if we need to, as we know and understand the customs.
[lprent: When it gets to level 10 (ie 9 levels of reply) the reply button turns off. Quote or link to the comment – check the FAQ. Or just find the last level 9 reply button above and use that. ]
So many outstanding writers on the left, I’d be forever gushing if I gave everyone their due praise. How can it be that virtually none of it ever reaches the mainstream?
Bradley Manning Show Trial begins in Maryland;
Radio NZ’s “U.S. correspondent” doesn’t want to know about it Nine to Noon, Radio New Zealand National, Tuesday 4 June 2013
Today the obscene, Stalinist persecution of Bradley Manning comes to a head with the start of his show trial in Fort Meade, Maryland. So naturally, when Kathryn Ryan talks with “U.S. correspondent” Jack Hitt for ten minutes this morning, it will be all about the show trial. Right?
Wrong. Here are the highlightsâŠ.
KATHRYN RYAN: We go now to our United States correspondent, Jack Hitt. What’s happening, Jack? JACK HITT: Are you a Game of Thrones fan, Kathryn? KATHRYN RYAN: Why yes I am!
Hitt then spends a considerable amount of time filling her in on something that has annoyed the Throners in the United States recently. It’s an utterly dull, obscure and trivial thing to go on about, especially on the day that an American hero is being crucifiedâŠ.
JACK HITT: The Twittersphere’s on FIRE about this!
âŠ.[Awkward extended pause]âŠ.
RYAN: Right, we’ll move on to more pleasant topics, like Obama’s drones policy. The latest thing that made my hair stand on end was the President saying these drones could be used on AMERICAN SOIL!
Cue another long and not very enlightened monologue from Hitt. The problem for both Ryan and Hitt seems to be the killing of AMERICAN CITIZENS. The moral and legal outrage of using them against Pakistani and Afghani civilians doesn’t seem to worry either of them.
HITT: On the weekend there was a drone strike against a Taliban leader in Afghanistan. RYAN: It was Eric Holder the Attorney General who said that drone strikes on American soil might be acceptable in a 9/11 type scenario. HITT: Obama’s been incredibly opaque in his responses. I mean, they have killed AMERICAN CITIZENS!
âŠ.[Long, thoughtful pause to indicate moral seriousness]âŠ.
RYAN: Does anybody remember Watergate? HITT:[with fervent sincerity] Yeah, actually, I think they doâŠ
Hitt wanders off on another long digression. Anything to avoid talking about the Bradley Manning show trial.
Ironically, just before these two airheads vapoured on about the heroism of the American press, the target of the Watergate burglaries, Daniel Ellsberg, was on television. He was protesting at the show-trial of Bradley Manning. I do not think that either Hitt or Ryan would have registered the irony.
RYAN: Interesting times! Jack, good to talk to you. We’ll catch up about China next time!
Er, having heard the conversation, can I just point out that Morrissey’s highlights bear little resemblance to what was actually said. eg, Ryan did not claim to be a fan of Game of Thrones, whatever that is. And there was no evidence that Jack Hitt was deliberately ignoring the Manning trial, anymore than he ignored the weather, South Sydney’s excellent NRL form or the colour of my socks.
Discussing the use of drones on US soil, however, was an excellent topic, because clearly, that’s a gamechanger precisely because it ties actual deaths in Iraq et al to potential deaths in the States. It brings the reality of drones to the American people. Shame you missed that point, Moz. Perhaps if you dialed back the faux outrage and actually listened to what was being said, you might find the radio quite enlightening.
Ryan did not claim to be a fan of Game of Thrones, whatever that is.
Okay, you’re right there, no doubt. I thought she said that. But I concede to your sharp ears, my friend. Right, that’s the trivial stuff out of the way.
And there was no evidence that Jack Hitt was deliberately ignoring the Manning trial, anymore than he ignored the weather…
Errrr, yes there WAS evidence that he deliberately ignored the Manning show trial. The evidence is that he did not talk about it. Similarly, supporters of the Soviet state deliberately ignored inconvenient and troubling aspects of the USSR in the 1930s.
Discussing the use of drones on US soil, however, was an excellent topic… Shame you missed that point, Moz.
I did not miss it. In fact, I cover their shallow discussion of it in my rush transcript.
Perhaps if you dialed back the faux outrage…
“Faux outrage”? You think I’m joking about the triviality, dishonesty and utter lack of responsible discussion on our public radio?
…and actually listened to what was being said, you might find the radio quite enlightening.
I listened to what was being said, all right. As so often is the case, it’s what they deliberately did not say that is interesting.
Even in the depths of your paranoia, a small part of you must understand that if people don’t talk about what you think they should talk about, it’s not actually evidence of a conspiracy. Still, it’s nice that Jenny has someone on her wavelength.
Your urge to trivialize and your attempts to derail serious discussions are beneath contempt. What is paranoid about what I wrote? Do you even understand what the word means?
You think they just “forgot” to talk about it, do you?
Sorry, Bud, but I am not trivialising anything. The nature of a catch up with a correspondent in a show such as Nine to Noon by definition is lightweight. Its a skim through a few subjects in a few minutes.
If you want more depth, or other issues that are dear to your heart discussed, I suggest you apply for a job as Ryan’s producer*. Till then, you’ll just have to live with the fact the Game of Thorns is more important to most radio listeners than Manning, who isn’t actually being lynched, but, instead, is being tried for releasing materials he knew he wasn’t supposed to release.
Yes, you are. Instead of entering into a serious and respectful dialogue, you abused me, and picked on the most trivial slip-up.
The nature of a catch up with a correspondent in a show such as Nine to Noon by definition is lightweight.
“By definition”. What tosh!
Its [sic] a skim through a few subjects in a few minutes.
It certainly is with Kathryn Ryan. You might accept such low standards; I and many other concerned listeners most certainly do not.
Till then, youâll just have to live with the fact the Game of Thorns is more important to most radio listeners than Manning,
You just said yourself that you had no idea what it was! Hardly anybody watches it, either here or in the U.S. But that doesn’t matter; what’s important is that it furnishes a chance to talk about anything except the vengeance being exacted by the state on a dissenter. THAT is boring—according to the likes of you.
….who isnât actually being lynched,
It is an attempted lynching, run by the U.S. government. But I guess that, with your track record, you feel honor-bound, if that’s the right expression, to endorse it.
Lordy, how isolated from the average Kiwi you sound! Like Ryan, I’ve heard of Game of Thorns because it’s omniprescent at the moment. It is by a factor of thousands more important to kiwis than Manning. And I know this without ever seeing a single ep. because it’s the show du jour, Moz. You really should get out more or possibly stay in more, it’s hard to tell.
And you completely misunderstand Ryan’s show. The clue is in the name, which references the timeslot. It usually starts with follow ups to one or two big news stories then moves on to lighter stuff. That’s a pretty normal formula for a mid morning show on a talk station anywhere on this blue planet.
They have isolated, and physically and mentally abused and tortured him during his incarceration. They have tried to humiliate him, and have repeatedly stated, without evidence of course, that he is psychologically faltering. That was standard Soviet modus operandi for treating dissidents, of course.
Whether or not they do what the haters of liberty want them to do and kill him is really beside the point; by locking up this dangerous young truth-teller, they are effectively murdering dissent, and freedom, and human rights.
The point, CV, is that this stuff is serious. The way we talk about it matters. Morissey’s overwrought nonsense hurts insofar that people who know a bit about it will be see how much he overcooks it and be turned off.
It’s like the truther garbage. It taints actual critical discussion by making it seem like fantasist nonsense.
There has been an argument made that Manning witnessed war crimes and therefore had a duty to report them. He reported to his superiors and was told to take things no further. This order was then illegal. Without recourse within the chain of command, he fulfilled his obligation by releasing the evidence to Wikileaks. On this basis, you could argue that he knew he was supposed to release the material.
By no means am I a lawyer, let alone a specialist in US military law or the Geneva Convention, but I think Manning did the right thing. I like to think I’d be courageous enough to do the same, and I applaud him.
That is no evidence of intent. There are reasons for not mentioning something other than deliberately suppressing it.
Yes, there was a really important discussion about Game of Thrones that just had to be completed. Much more interesting than the public lynching of a dissident.
Dead right. And if he’d only raised the issues through army channels or through his state or federal representatives he wouldn’t be going to jail for the rest of his life. Don’t forget, he leaked everything he had, not just the specifics of abuses. More fool him for trusting Saint Jules not to dob him in, too.
It was not WLO that dobbed him in, Manning states he did not use the TOR anonymizer when uploading the main file dump. I understand that he was identified through regular investigative methods.
And if heâd only raised the issues through army channels or through his state or federal representatives he wouldnât be going to jail for the rest of his life.
You have to be kidding me. Do you believe that Manning would be off scot free if he did as you said? At least Manning is not as naive as you, given that he understands how the US military and government deliberately prosecuted this war from the start.
Also you’re complaining that Manning didn’t follow correct channels when multiple war crimes against civilians were being committed. Seriously. What are correct channels when war crimes against civilians are being committed? Writing a letter to your local congressman? Or to your CO?
What channels? Re-read my comment. Manning had choices, lawful and unlawful, and took the dumbest option. For all its faults, the US military does prosecute its own and does listen to whistleblowers. The heroism of those who spoke out about the My Lai massacre shows that to be the case.
For all its faults, the US military does prosecute its own and does listen to whistleblowers.
I cannot believe anyone can be so dishonest as to write something like that sentence. You really need to think about what you are saying, and perhaps more importantly, why you are saying it.
I’m pretty sure I was the first, Lanth! I have a vague memory of Moz calling me something like that (liar of the week?) a couple of years ago in a forerunner of the current selection of People Who Confuse Moz. I think P’s B also made the shortlist.
Iâm pretty sure I was the first, Lanth! I have a vague memory of Moz calling me something like that (liar of the week?) a couple of years ago in a forerunner of the current selection of People Who Confuse Moz. I think Pâs B also made the shortlist.
Actually, Te Reo, I don’t think you or Pascal’s Bookie did feature in “LIAR WATCH”, the 2012 feature that is the predecessor to today’s “Liars of Our Time” series. But several of our good buddies did….
Careful TRP, youâre going to end up on âLiars of our Timeâ.
I do not think our friend Te Reo is a liar like, say, “Sir” Graham Henry or Henry Kissinger. Mere credulity and cowardice do not in themselves meet the criteria.
If Thompson hadn’t spoken out, there may well have been no prosecutions over My Lai. If he hadn’t landed his helicopter and stopped American troops by pointing machine guns at them, there would have been more murdered Vietnamese. There was still a movement to court martial him and he received numerous death threats.
And if heâd only raised the issues through army channels or through his state or federal representatives he wouldnât be going to jail for the rest of his life.
Enjoy your vacation at the dacha, Comrade! You have earned it with your steadfast loyalty.
If only those Jewish doctors had your ironclad devotion to the Holy State!
As I understand it, there’s a large number of charges. Manning has pleaded guilty to some and not guilty to others.The main focus of the defense will be on whether the leaks aided the enemy.
Enlistment Oath.â Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:
“I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
If you have never read it, here is Manning’s [redacted] statement.
It explains why he has plead guilty to some charges but will not plead guilty to others.
Rancorous Hypocrite Alert!
Gavin “Mogadon” Ellis will be on National Radio at 11:45 this morning!
Gavin “Mogadon” Ellis is not just the unbelievably dull media commentator that appears for five wasted minutes once a week on Nine to Noon. Media-watchers will be all too aware that Ellis used to be the inordinately dull editor of the New Zealand Herald, and as such he distinguished himself in 2002 not only by putting out a dull paper, but by a notorious display of craven cowardice. After the then Herald cartoonist Malcolm Evans dared to publish a series of cartoons criticizing the Israeli onslaught in the Occupied West Bank, Evans and Ellis became the target of the usual shrieking abuse from the local Israel lobby, led by the snarling Dame Lesley Max.
Far from standing by the right of his cartoonist to criticize the outlaw regime, Ellis started returning his cartoons, with hand-written threats that his job was in jeopardy if he continued the provocations. Evans refused to buckle under, and sure enough, Ellis fired him.
This morning, this notorious coward and toady will talk about the Al Nisbet cartoons. If he is to be consistent, he will take the side not of the victims but of the oppressor, and will back Nisbet to the hilt.
Of course, silly old Malcolm Evans should have drawn cartoons SUPPORTING the massacres in the Occupied Territories; that way he would have been in line with the Herald‘s editorial policy.
Open Mike today: the denizens seem to be squiggling, and humpfing, those cocktails and brewskis will wear off soon enough troops, bushy tails tomorrow.
âą cough up please Furball
âą morrissey might have a wee lie down
âą And B. Manning is going âdown, down, downâ to quote the Boss. He did great service to democracy at great personal cost unfortunately for naive wee him.
Maybe good for property rich and owning National Party members and supporters, for speculators, certain developers and for those owning homes that are largely paid off.
Great stuff, but what about the rest of us?
So where are the houses for the low income earners, and when will they be ready to move in, while in many parts of Auckland the average price is around a million for a house or home now?
Lest We Forget
Why the U.S. regime is exacting vengeance on Bradley Manning
A Stalinist show trial began in Fort Meade, Maryland, today. The U.S. regime wants to make sure nobody else dares to make this kind of evidence available ever again…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0
Winston Smith(erines): Cunning game, played by your mentor, first promote and flatter the man, now get out the hatchet and hack his legs off, right?
I have little time for Shearer as “leader”, consider him a suitable minister though, but we all know what David Farrar is all about.
He is a boot-licking advocate for John Key and that Natzi Party, right.
Yes, Shearer needs replacing, and one has to be suspicious, whether Labour’s leadership may indeed not have been “infiltrated” by government friendly saboteurs of sorts, for such press release to be allowed out.
I think Labour decided that any more leadership battles coming up to an election would divide the party, and create bad publicity. When the 2014 election is over, that would be the time to decide whether Shearer should stay or someone else should take his place. Right now however National is trying to anything to mud-sling the opposition, so keeping a united front is the best bet, no matter how much you may dislike certain politicians in Labour.
But when the opposition are slinging mud at themselves?
There IS a united front. People commenting on the left (blogs, twitter, polls, you name it) are united in seeing clearly that Shearer isn’t up to the job.
“Bad publicity”? A change of leader might be a week’s worth. Whereas no change = bad publicity every week.
I doubt it matters, as I have said before. This is MMP, not a Presidential system. Shearer doesn’t have to be a great leader at all, as long as people vote for this party, and the opposition parties. There are plenty of other nations where the leader is unloved and even hated, yet their party still win elections – because they aren’t voting for the leader, but the party.
While I get your message and see your point, I just cannot bear seeing an opposition heading into an election campaign eyes wide shut, ending in a major disaster, which will give the Natzies a third term (possibly with Colin Craig’s Conservatives).
Having been through a term and a half now, and seeing how they get meaner by the week, it will drive me to insanity or serious self harm, to live through a third term of yet more nastiness. It is simply mentally, emotionally and physically not bearable, the mere thought of it.
Labour hoping to win by default is a bet like buying a lotto ticket, nothing else. Hence my desperation and dismay.
mobilise and terrorise our political opponents. âŠ
âLet the games begin,â says David Shearer.
Oh dear, he’s been drinking Brut 33 again. Someone stop him before he starts guzzling Old Spice. Before you know it, he’ll grow a porn ‘stache and wear an a open-necked shirt and a medallion.
Is their campaign song going to be the theme from Shaft?
P.S. Whatever happened to “hands on” and “holding the government to account?” Are they still using those?
Right, if Samuel Motherfucking Jackson (that’s his real middle name, not “Leroy”) forms a party, I’m voting for it.
Said it before, gotta say it again: if you want to know why Wall Street fucked the world economy, look at Key, but if you want to know why the UN is so ineffective, look at Shearer.
Good day for the opposition in the House. Key showed his nasty side (as usual), Norman skewered him, Winston dug some dirt, and Metiria forced Hekia into a vote-losing confession.
So it’s all good. Except – of course – David Shearer comes to the rescue! His talk of “terrorising” will piss off potential friends and make Labour look bad. No change there.
Please, please, Labour MPs … Make the stupidity stop.
What a great country – Finland really supporting its parents. Pity that NZ isn’t like that.
It would be great if parents could all state something like this about NZ support.
We now live in Helsinki and have just had our second child, Annika. She did get a free box from the Finnish state. This felt to me like evidence that someone cared, someone wanted our baby to have a good start in life. And now when I visit friends with young children it’s nice to see we share some common things. It strengthens that feeling that we are all in this together.
The Finns showing, how to build foundations of a functioning society.
It takes an educated, engaged nation, with a sense of identity, pride, self respect, and respect for others, to ensure the continuation of such standards.
Sky City: Future Governments not bound by current deal – lawyer
Amazing stuff coming from lawyer Stephen Franks (from another political quarter, but acting in his professional capacity as advising lawyer), given to the Green Party, and revealed in the New Zealand Herald today:
So a future government can opt out of any deals signed by the present government with Sky City – in return for a close to 400 million “free” convention centre (for more pokies).
One concern is the foreign investors/owners of Sky City can possibly sue for loss of revenue they expected, if the deal is reneged on.
Also perhaps, due to the processes followed, highly criticised by the Auditor General, a future government can perhaps use that as an argument, for the agreement to be made, to have been reached illegally (breach of natural justice in deciding on who gets the deal).
I’d appreciate some senior legal expert, perhaps Miss Chen, to give an opinion on this.
Must be doing something right, if Cameron Slater (Whaleoil) and Martyn (Bomber) Bradbury – have BOTH banned me from making comments on their blogs?
Both of them believe in ‘freedom of expression’ – but not on their blogs?
How sad.
Too bad.
Carry on ……………
FYI
Martyn Bradbury BANNED me from posting comments on ‘the Daily Blog’ – because he was totally opposed to my standing for the Auckland mayoralty, against John Minto.
Although I had made public my intention to stand as a 2013 Auckland Mayoralty candidate, well before John asked Mana to endorse his standing.
Although I stood as an Auckland Mayoral candidate in 2010.
For the public record, I do think it’s a great idea for John Minto to stand as an Auckland Mayoral candidate, for the Mana Party.
It’s a very effective way to help get a higher political profile for both Mana as a political party, and John Minto as a candidate before the 2014 General Election.
As the only candidate campaigning on an ACTION PLAN against ‘white collar’ crime, corruption and ‘corporate welfare’ – I look forward to the upcoming Mayoral debates!
“Must be doing something right, if Cameron Slater (Whaleoil) and Martyn (Bomber) Bradbury â have BOTH banned me from making comments on their blogs?”
Or something wrong. Or something annoying. Or none of the above. There’s no logic that suggests it means anything at all actually, people get banned from blogs all the time for all sorts of reasons so it could well be a coincidence.
Did either of them say why they banned you? Could be clues there.
Hasn’t Penny been banned from here in the past? Too much dry copypasta, not enough saucy comments?
[lprent: Nope. After she stopped doing the really long ones, got it more into her own words, reduced her CAPITAL and bold excretions, reduced our exposure to defamation suits, and started using OpenMike – well I haven’t really had anything to do with her comments apart from looking at them for some ideas about what was going on. No bans for a long time and the last time I had to do something was [deleted] in a comment that was defamatory in the absence of strong backing material (and if she had that then it would have been better to take it to the police for malfeasance) ]
She spoke to Sean Plunket on Radio Live late this morning, and in the end was cut off. But he gave her a bit of a go. Perhaps it took his nerve centres to connect for a while, until he realised, who “Penny” was, defending Russell Norman and the Greens, and then raising her corruption in NZ concerns.
You were probably banned Penny as your bright and sunny personality combined with succinct and relevant posts were threatening to outshine the blog hosts – so of course you needed to be given the short shift.
Surprisingly Shearer’s tough talking was aimed at the candidates standing in the Ikaroa-Rawhiti By-election. So it appears that Shearer’s “opponents” who he intends to “terrorise” don’t include the National Party, who are not standing. If only David could reserve such tough talking for the National Party. Shearer should take a leaf out of Russel Norman’s book, and instead of largely letting them off the hook with his meek stumbling bumbling performance to date, get stuck into the Nats. with as much ferocity.
Instead with intemperate language that Parekura Horomia would have been appalled at, Shearer with all the finesse of a blundering rhino charges at Labour’s potential allies.
More likely than not, Shearer’s stepping in with this sectarian diatribe will cost the Labour candidate votes.
P.S.
National’s glaring failings, so obvious that a three year old could spot them, make an easy target. Russel Norman skewered them with ease. Why can’t Shearer do the same? Instead it seems his real invective is reserved for Labour’s erstwhile future allies.
And the Green Party want to go into coalition and are prepared to bend over backwards to accommodate themselves to Shearer’s Labour Party in exchange for cabinet positions?
They must be mad.
The Green Party are prepared to give up their principles for what? To be outvoted on every single cabinet decision, yet be locked into supporting them, through “collective cabinet responsibility”?
david shearer is by far the biggest liability the left has to gain power and I don’t mean fucken labour btw – to say what he said, today of all days – I am so over that wanker. He is a fucken right wing plant, a judas goat and a semi-articulate bastard.
I can understand someone thinking that Shearer is a right wing plant, since the only people he actually picks fights with are on the left – first the Labour Party members, and now he’s “terrorising” his supposed allies. Allies, that is, unless he thinks it’s a better idea to leave them in the lurch and try to form a grand coalition with National. The people who vote for John Key don’t care if he tells lies because they believe he is lying on their behalf. David Shearer seems hard put to make an utterance, whether true, false or indecipherable, on behalf of Labour voters.
A stretch would be to say that you were responsible for selecting him, or that you were tasked with selecting him, or perhaps that your role was crucial to his selection.
But “involved” is precisely what you were, and you’ve never made any secret of it.
It suited you that he was selected, as it suited you to feign support and praise for him, just as it now suits you to attack him.
IMHO: Really the wrong language for that Ikaroa-Rawhiti electorate. I suspect there will be some backlash from that tomorrow..
But hey, there were mass mail-outs from those bastions of Maoridom, the Labour leader’s office and the NZLP HQ. They used them to introduce their candidate – they didn’t let her introduce herself despite what looks like an interesting history. The mailout that I looked at showed no real appreciation of the importance of connections, family, or past history amongst Maori which are kind of important to Maori candidates in Maori seats. Apparently it was the better of the two…
I’m not exactly a major student of Maori culture in the East Coast, but it does make it feel a teensy bit patronising… I bet that neither the Maori party or Mana or even the Greens would do that.
I’ll have a look at seeing if we can get a couple of posts from people who know about that electorate.
Question
In the shortness of a persons lifetime how is that the failings of political history repeat themselves to the extent that they have reached today
Poverty of the masses, denial of educational opportunity,resurgence of the lack of freedoms that our forebears left europe because of,the unbelievable denial of democratic principles in the governance of this country not seen since Muldoon and Holland were in power .
This is the re establishment by party politics of democracy being nothing but a tool for the capitalist doctrine to slash and burn without any control by true majority of the nation
These capitalist have no safeguards to cleanup the mess their policies of money at whatever the cost will leave us to pay for .The’re just like any other international corporation using the country for their 2%ers benefit, paying media politics and lying thru their advertising.
The answers simple we are a country of 4 million that needs to be very careful about how it looks after itself and this govt has lost our way because they are there because of us so Mr Key do the hard yards if you are a Kiwi
AND PULL YOUR BLOODY HEAD IN You….
Buzz from the Beehive Transport Minister Simeon Brown dutifully issued advice to all road users to keep safe on our roads during the Easter weekend. He encouraged them to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. ...
Oliver Hartwich writes –Â New Zealanders recently learned about a new feature film. It will be about former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern â and taxpayers will subsidise it to the tune of NZ$800,000. Ardern had nothing personally to do with either the film or the subsidy. But her governmentâs ...
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There are now only a few days left to give feedback on the Draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport 2024-34 (see our earlier post this week on GPS submission guides). As weâve reported, the GPS is a disaster for Local Government, so we were particularly interested to hear ...
Willis has pledged to go ahead with the debt-funded tax cuts, despite growing opposition from her own supporters worried about appearing fiscally irresponsible. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for ...
Open access notables A survey of interventions to actively conserve the frozen North, van Wijngaarden et al., Climatic Change:The frozen elements of the high North are thawing as the region warms much faster than the global mean. The dangers of sea level rise due to melting glacier ice, increased ...
Bryce Edwards writes – New Zealandâs biggest-ever political donations scandal is finally at an end. But what is the conclusion? No one can really be sure. The Court of Appeal released its judgement on Tuesday about the Serious Fraud Office case against the NZ First Foundation. On ...
In 2015, then-Prime Minister John Key announced plans for a huge ocean sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands, banning fishing and mining from 15% of Aotearoa's EEZ. It was bold, it was ambitious, and it suggested that National might actually care about the environment. Except they fucked it up: Key failed ...
1. Who has just been given the accolade New Zealander of the Year?a. The Kokakob. The Cook Strait Ferryc. Fair God. Dr Jim Salinger 2. Which of these is an affront to decent society?a. Dame Edna Everageb. Mrs Doubtfire c. Dr. Frank-N-Furterd. Brian 3. Who is Penny Simmonds?a. The aspiring actress in Big ...
New Zealandâs biggest-ever political donations scandal is finally at an end. But what is the conclusion? No one can really be sure.The Court of Appeal released its judgement on Tuesday about the Serious Fraud Office case against the NZ First Foundation. On the face of it, the court found ...
Buzz from the Beehive Waves of rain are set to lash much of the North Island during Easter Weekend as a low-pressure system forms east of New Zealand, according to a weather forecast published in the past day or so. Niwa was warning of a âmoisture-ladenâ long weekend, with rain expected ...
Look around us…Nicola Willis’ promises of balancing the books, of cutting spending without reducing services, and of delivering game changing tax cuts are disappearing before her eyes.Everyday we see stories of violent crime ending in horrific injuries, or worse. The cost of living worsens, whereas the PM claimed renters would ...
TL;DR: My top six news of note on the morning of Thursday, March 28 include:The Government will have to borrow between $10 billion to $15 billion more than previously expected in order to make up for a slowing economy and to pay for $14.9 billion of tax cuts, according to ...
This story by Naveena Sadasivam and Kate Yoder was originally published by Grist and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. The long-awaited jobs board for the American Climate Corps, promised early in the Biden administration, will open next month, according to details shared exclusively ...
Should landlords be able to deduct the interest on the loans they take out to bankroll their property speculation? The US Senate Budget Committee and Bloomberg News don’t think this is a good idea, for reasons set out below. Regardless, our coalition government has been burning through a ton of ...
Treasury’s first report on the economy since the change of government presents a damning indictment of Labour’s economic management. The problem for National is that it is so damning that logically, coupled with a rapidly slowing economy, Finance Minister Nicola Willis should respond to it by postponing or even cancelling ...
Budget tensions are becoming evident within the Coalition Government. Winston Peters made numerous political points in his speech to the NZF annual conference. But the attack on his own governmentâs fiscal policies raised issues of substance. âToday in the Sunday Star Times, journalist and former advisor to the Labour ...
Buzz from the Beehive The media â sure enough â have been binging on Finance Minister Nicola Willisâ release of the Budget Policy Statement and a statement headed Government announces Budget priorities This assures us – or rather, this parrots the Luxon team mantra â that the Budget âwill deliver ...
The Ides of March brought me COVID followed by a bereavement. No wonder they tell you to be careful of them.I’m home now and have resumed the interrupted recuperation. Very much looking forward to getting back to regular things. Meanwhile, some thoughts…OneThis new Prime Minister guy just keeps getting more dire. ...
News that the Chinese ATP 40 cyber-hacking unit penetrated parliamentary internet networks in 2021 has renewed concerns about the PRC’s malign intentions in Aotearoa. But is the hack that significant given the length of time that has passed since its … Continue reading → ...
When Parliament passed the Intelligence and security Act in 2017, they assured us all that it was full of safeguards. Any intrusive surveillance of New Zealanders would be subject to a "triple lock", requiring the approval of the Minister and (supposedly independent) Commissioner of Intelligence Warrants, as well as post-facto ...
Eric Crampton writes – Richard Harman’s Politik newsletter provides a bit of the context that ought to have been showing up in other media reports on potential reductions in public service staffing.  Media has been reporting on staffing cuts on the order of about 7%. Is that ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – Itâs becoming increasingly apparent that many perceive free speech to have become the preserve of the politically right wing, the religiously conservative, the libertarian fringe, the anti-trans, the anti-MÄori andâŠ. well, just fill in with whatever groups or individuals you donât like and donât ...
Don Brash writes –Â As everybody who is not blind and deaf is aware, there is a huge political preoccupation with climate change at the moment, a widespread (though by no means unanimous) belief that global temperatures are rising mainly as a result of the greenhouse gases created ...
TL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy on Wednesday, March 27 include:Chris Bishop laid out his vision for filling Aotearoa-NZ’s $100 billion infrastructure deficit in a speech yesterday, emphasising user pays and private funding, but failed to say how to achieve bipartisanship on population, public borrowing and ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Former Finance Minister Grant Robertson and former Prime Minister Chris Hipkins have been conveying how unhappy they are with the tax system. Last week in his valedictory speech, Robertson called for the introduction of a wealth or capital gains tax. And this week Hipkins ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Buzz from the Beehive China has loomed large in Beehive considerations over the past 24 hours, largely because of that countryâs mischief-making in the cyber espionage department. Two media statements emerged on that subject hard on the heels of the PM baulking at questions put to him on RNZ’s Morning ...
Chris Trotter writes – WHY IS THE NATIONAL PARTY doing so much for landlords, property developers, trucking, and construction companies, and so little for everybody who isnât already pretty well-off? Itâs as if protecting landlordsâ investments and building apartments and roads now constitute the whole of Nationalâs ...
 Bryce Edwards writes – When she was campaigning to be Minister of Finance last year, Nicola Willis pledged that she would resign from the job if she failed to deliver tax cuts in her first Budget. Now, itâs that pledge, along with Prime Minister Christopher Luxonâs ...
Robert MacCulloch writes –Â The Reserve Bank has doubled staff numbers in five years to 510, with personnel costs rising to $80 million in 2023 from $32 million in 2018 – up by a whopping 150%. I guess when you print $50 billion and flood markets with liquidity, ...
The furore. In case you didn’t notice there was a controversy in the weekend involving dolphins in a little town off the South Island. Don’t panic, they haven’t declared independence and resumed whaling, this was simply a sailing event.The problem began when racing was cancelled on the opening day of ...
For 20 years or more, the case for a meaningful capital tax gains has been mulled over and analysed to death, including by the tax working group chaired by Sir Michael Cullen. More than once, the International Monetary Fund has said a CGT would be a good idea for New ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: The Public Health Communications Centre (PHCC) call for urgent preventive action and a risk assessment survey of long covid in this briefing noteLocal scoop: NZ road deaths surpass OECD rates, so why is the govt reversing safety plans? ...
This story was originally published by Grist and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. This story is part of a collaboration with Grist and WABE to demystify the Georgia Public Service Commission, the small but powerful state-elected board that makes critical decisions about everything from raising ...
This is a guest post from Robert McLachlan Global warming is accelerating; 2023 was off the charts. We need to stop burning fossil fuels. In New Zealand, transport accounts for half of all fossil fuels burnt. In the Emissions Reduction Plan, transport emissions fall 41% by 2035. As the ...
Labour productivity has been receding rapidly over the past two years, reversing a post-lockdown rise. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy as at 6:26am on Tuesday, March 26 include:Workers have been treading water in output per hour worked for 12 years, ...
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My sister Belinda asked Dad yesterday what one word would describe Mum best. He said: vivacious.If you only knew her from the photos on the slideshow we've made for today,you might wonder about that, because the camera tended to lie with Mum.If ever she saw a camera pointed at her, she ...
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Is she hinting that the Coalition Government will have to back down on key promises it made in Opposition? Brian Easton writes – The Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, is telling an evolving story about her fiscal challenges. In Opposition she was confident that she could ...
Dear Nicola Willis,Right now you’ve probably got lots of competing demands coming at you. Ministers who’ve inherited quite a mess, or so you’ve told us, looking for money in the budget to improve things. I imagine that’s why they came to parliament - to make things better.You’ll have to make ...
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This morning the Q&A programme had Simeon Brown on to talk about National’s replacement for Three Waters. In case anyone’s forgotten the three are - drinking water, waste water, and sewerage. It’s quite important not to get them mixed up. In much the same way that you wouldn’t want to ...
Today’s newsletter comes with a mini-podcast conversation between me and my buddy Liv Tennet, talking about her time as a child actor in Lord of the Rings. It’s a conversation with a lot of giggles as she talks about falling off a horse, and becoming a meme. Read ...
The Desmog Climate Disinformation Database documents, "individuals and organisations that have helped to delay and distract the public and our elected leaders from taking needed action to reduce greenhouse gas pollution and fight global warming." It's a who's who of the organised climate change denial movement, in other words. In ...
Bob Edlin writes – A High Court judge has decided miscreants who have mana â or who claim to have mana – should be treated differently from miscreants who have none. Itâs a ruling that suggests indigenous law-breakers have a better chance of securing a discharge without conviction ...
Welcome to the first, and possibly last, edition of Brickbats, Bouquets and Bull’s Wool. In which I’ll take a look at the events of the last week or so, and rate them.In such ratings the numbers usually have more to do with the opinions of the reviewer, than the actual ...
Roger Partridge writes – My earlier column this month, New Zealandâs highest court could be facing a turning point, prompted a flood of feedback from business readers and lawyers alike. A common query was what Parliament can do to restrain an overreaching judiciary. This week I discuss two steps Parliament ...
TL;DR: In today’s ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.16pm on Friday, March 22: writes about New Zealand's Building Boom—And What the World Must Learn From It over at his substack. challenges the Auckland Council’s use of a 3.8 degrees of warming forecast to oppose a wave-park and data centre project ...
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The Inspector General of Intelligence and Security (IGIS) recently released a report in which he exposes the existence of a foreign intelligence partner-controlled technological “capability” inside the headquarters of the GCSB, NZ’s 5 Eyes-affiliated signals intelligence collection and analysis agency. … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes –Â Â Nearly three decades after the introduction of MMP and multiparty governments there should be a greater level of understanding about their finer points than often appears to be the case. The reaction to the despicable outburst from the Deputy Prime Minister at the weekend highlights ...
The sweet kisses from fruit of summerHave slowly been turning dullerYou say, "those times"And "remember the daysWhen we went outside and there still was the shade?"Taking no reason into play…Autumn. Clear, blue days shortening to longer nights, growing colder. Aotearoa.That’s us. The temperature dropping, the looming car crash - so ...
Bryce Edwards writes – âIt is often said that behind every great man is a great womanâ. This is the pitch by the National Party Botany electorate branch to attend their âLadies Afternoon Tea with Amanda Luxonâ. For $110 including GST, you can turn up on Saturday 20 April ...
David Farrar writes – The Electoral Commission has published the expense returns for political parties for the 2023 election. I’ve put them in a table with how many votes a party got so we can see the spend per vote. National only spent $3.34 for every vote they got, almost ...
Winston Petersâ headline-making actions over the past week may have been a show of political power intended to strengthen his hand in Budget negotiations. It was no accident that his State of the Nation speech was as it was. He made it as New Zealand First Leader, not as Deputy ...
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Graham Adams writes â If you love the law or sausages, as the saying goes, best not to look too closely at how they are made. And after watching the orgy of self-pity when Newshubâs closure was announced on February 28, television journalism should definitely be added to the list of those ...
Venerable New Zealand political commentator, Chris Trotter (https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/), is a sad creature these days. Once one of the most reliable Leftist writers out there – Economic Left at that – Trotter seems to have absorbed the worldview of Auckland culture-war obsessives. It is not for me to categorise what he ...
The cruelty of short-term memory loss is that each time you ask where she is, you get the fresh shock and grief of the news. That was Dad's day yesterday.Comfortingly, it seems to be less so today. Last night he looked crumpled, today he seems more settled. There's a card ...
The Coalition Governmentâs plan to âget Auckland movingâ is a cuts cover-up that will ultimately cost Aucklanders more to move around the city, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Slashing the Ministry of Pacific Peoples by 40% will have a devastating impact on pacific communities and further highlights how little this government cares about anything other than cutting taxes for the wealthiest few. ...
Labour has proposed an urgent inquiry to investigate the ever-increasing profits of supermarkets, aiming to lower costs for shoppers and food producers alike, says Labour Spokesperson for Commerce and Consumer Affairs Arena Williams and Primary Production Spokesperson Cushla Tangaere-Manuel. ...
With 14% of jobs on the line at the Ministry for Ethnic Communities, the responsible Minister Melissa Lee is failing to stand up for the very communities sheâs meant to be representing. ...
COURT OF APPEAL: TRIFECTA OF VICTORY FOR NZ FIRST, TRIFECTA OF FAILURE FOR OPPONENTS For the third time since April 2020, New Zealand First has defeated the Serious Fraud Office and all those complicit in a malicious attack against a political party going about its lawful business in a lawful ...
The Green Party stands with people who live in public housing, people in dire housing need, experts and advocates in demanding better than the Governmentâs archaic approach to housing those who need our support the most. ...
New Zealand has recently lost the hosting rights of some major international sporting events including the Americaâs Cup, the Rugby Championship, Netball World Cup, and the Wellington Sevens. We are now at a huge risk of losing SailGP as well. And it wonât stop there. The recent issues with SailGP ...
A Memberâs Bill drawn this week would modernise insurance law and make things fairer and more transparent for consumers, Christchurch Central MP Duncan Webb said. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues has confirmed she was aware of funding issues in mid-December and did nothing to stop it. On 14 March, she signed off on changes that were announced and implemented on 18 March without any consultation with disability communities. ...
Green Party MP Julie Anne Genter says her members' bill is an opportunity for the coalition government to plug the gap in electric vehicle incentives. ...
The National Government continues to talk about irresponsible tax cuts that will only drive up inflation, despite the country entering a technical recession. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues must act urgently to reinstate flexibility around the funding for disability support and apologise to disabled carers. ...
This story has been initiated by a leftie shill reporter who proactively sought to call a member of a former band, which disbanded twelve years ago, give their biased appraisal of what was said in my speech, and concocted a ham-fisted attempt at a story that does nothing but show ...
The Government has accepted Labourâs change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Many in the mainstream media have taken what was said in New Zealand Firstâs State of the Nation Speech in Palmerston North on Sunday and deliberately, deceitfully, and ignorantly misrepresented what I said and why I said it. The headlines and commentary on the news stated that I compared âco-governance ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te PÄti MÄori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. âIâm calling on all political parties to support my ...
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This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jonesâ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Governmentâs fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Governmentâs miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesnât act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the passing of legislation to move light electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) into the road user charges system from 1 April. âIt was always intended that EVs and PHEVs would be exempt from road user charges until they reached two ...
New Zealand is strengthening its ability to combat illegal fishing outside its domestic waters and beef up regulation for its own commercial fishers in international waters through a Bill which had its first reading in Parliament today. The Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2023 sets out stronger ...
Economists Carl Hansen and Professor Prasanna Gai have been appointed to the Reserve Bank Monetary Policy Committee, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today. The Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) is the independent decision-making body that sets the Official Cash Rate which determines interest rates. Carl Hansen, the executive director of Capital ...
Apartment owners and buyers will soon have greater protections as further changes to the law on unit titles come into effect, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. âThe Unit Titles (Strengthening Body Corporate Governance and Other Matters) Amendment Act had already introduced some changes in December 2022 and May 2023, and ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Egypt and Europe from this weekend.  âThis travel will focus on a range of New Zealandâs traditional diplomatic and security partnerships while enabling broad engagement on the urgent situation in Gaza,â Mr Peters says.  Mr Peters will attend the NATO Foreign ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown is encouraging all road users to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. âRoad safety is a responsibility we all share, and with increased traffic on our roads expected this Easter we ...
About 1.4 million New Zealanders will receive cost of living relief through increased government assistance from April 1 909,000 pensioners get a boost to Superannuation, including 5000 veterans 371,000 working-age beneficiaries will get higher payments 45,000 students will see an increase in their allowance Over a quarter of New Zealanders ...
Ensuring social housing is being provided to those with the greatest needs is front of mind as the Government restarts social housing tenancy reviews, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. âOur relentless focus on building a strong economy is to ensure we can deliver better public services such as social ...
The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary will not go ahead, with Cabinet deciding to stop work on the proposed reserve and remove the Bill that would have established it from Parliamentâs order paper. âThe Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill would have created a 620,000 sq km economic no-go zone,â Oceans and Fisheries Minister ...
Dam safety regulations are being amended so that smaller dams wonât be subject to excessive compliance costs, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. âThe coalition Government is focused on reducing costs and removing unnecessary red tape so we can get the economy back on track. âDam safety regulations ...
The coalition Government is expanding the medium-scale adverse event classification to parts of the North Island as dry weather conditions persist, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. âI have made the decision to expand the medium-scale adverse event classification already in place for parts of the South Island to also cover the ...
The passing of legislation giving effect to coalition Government tax commitments has been welcomed by Finance Minister Nicola Willis. âThe Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023â24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill will help place New Zealand on a more secure economic footing, improve outcomes for New Zealanders, and make our tax system ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins and Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds today announced plans to transform our science and university sectors to boost the economy. Two advisory groups, chaired by Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, will advise the Government on how these sectors can play a greater ...
The Budget will deliver urgently-needed tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders while putting the governmentâs finances back on a sustainable track, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The Finance Minister made the comments at the release of the Budget Policy Statement setting out the Governmentâs Budget objectives. âThe coalition Government intends ...
The coalition Government will look at options to address a zoning issue that limits how much financial support Queenstown residents can get for accommodation. Cabinet has agreed on a response to the Petitions Committee, which had recommended the geographic information MSD uses to determine how much accommodation supplement can be ...
Cabinet has agreed to a short extension to the final reporting timeframe for the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care from 28 March 2024 to 26 June 2024, Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden says.                                        âThe Royal Commission wrote to me on 16 February 2024, requesting that I consider an ...
The coalition Government is delivering an $18 million boost to New Zealanders needing to travel for specialist health treatment, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says.  âThese changes are long overdue â the National Travel Assistance (NTA) scheme saw its last increase to mileage and accommodation rates way back in 2009. ...
The Government is recognising the innovative and rising talent in New Zealandâs growing space sector, with the Prime Minister and Space Minister Judith Collins announcing the new Prime Ministerâs Prizes for Space today. âNew Zealand has a growing reputation as a high-value partner for space missions and research. I am ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed New Zealandâs concerns about cyber activity have been conveyed directly to the Chinese Government. Â Â âThe Prime Minister and Minister Collins have expressed concerns today about malicious cyber activity, attributed to groups sponsored by the Chinese Government, targeting democratic institutions in both New ...
Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry Education Minister Erica Stanford today announced the appointment of three independent reviewers to lead the Ministerial Inquiry into the Ministry of Educationâs School Property Function. The Inquiry will be led by former Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully. âThere is a clear need ...
State Highway 1 across the Brynderwyns will be open for Easter weekend, with work currently underway to ensure the resilience of this critical route being paused for Easter Weekend to allow holiday makers to travel north, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. âToday I visited the Brynderwyn Hills construction site, where ...
Introduction Good morning to you all, and thanks for having me bright and early today. I am absolutely delighted to be the Minister for Infrastructure alongside the Minister of Housing and Resource Management Reform. I know the Prime Minister sees the three roles as closely connected and he wants me ...
New Zealand stands with the United Kingdom in its condemnation of Peopleâs Republic of China (PRC) state-backed malicious cyber activity impacting its Electoral Commission and targeting Members of the UK Parliament. âThe use of cyber-enabled espionage operations to interfere with democratic institutions and processes anywhere is unacceptable,â Minister Responsible for ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced New Zealand will provide logistics support for the upcoming Solomon Islands election. âWeâre sending a team of New Zealand Defence Force personnel and two NH90 helicopters to provide logistics support for the election on 17 April, at the request ...
The European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill received Royal Assent today, completing the process for New Zealandâs ratification of its free trade agreement with the European Union. Â Â âI am pleased to announce that today, in a small ceremony at the Beehive, New Zealand notified the European Union ...
Public consultation on the terms of reference for the Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons has concluded, Internal Affairs Minister Hon Brooke van Velden says. âI have been advised that there were over 11,000 submissions made through the Royal Commissionâs online consultation portal.â Expanding the scope of the Royal Commission of ...
Hardworking families are set to benefit from a new credit to help them meet their early childcare education (ECE) costs, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. From 1 July, parents and caregivers of young children will be supported to manage the rising cost of living with a partial reimbursement of their ...
A specialised Independent Technical Advisory Group (ITAG) tasked with preparing and publishing independent non-binding advice on the design of a "green" (sustainable finance) taxonomy rulebook is being established, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. âComprising experts and market participants, the ITAG's primary goal is to deliver comprehensive recommendations to the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Army, Major General John Boswell, DSD, for his service as he leaves the Army after 40 years. âI would like to thank Major General Boswell for his contribution to the Army and the wider New Zealand Defence Force, undertaking many different ...
25 March 2024 Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders Small Business, Manufacturing, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly will travel to Australia for a series of bi-lateral meetings and manufacturing visits. During the visit, Minister Bayly will meet with his Australian counterparts, Senator Tim Ayres, Ed ...
Government commits almost $3 million for period products in schools The Coalition Government has committed $2.9 million to ensure intermediate and secondary schools continue providing period products to those who need them, Minister of Education Erica Stanford announced today. âThis is an issue of dignity and ensuring young women donât ...
Good morning, itâs great to be here.  First, I would like to acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors and thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning. I would like to use this opportunity to outline the Governmentâs ambitious plan and what we hope to ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti has announced the Governmentâs commitment to the Auckland Secondary Schools MÄori and Pacific Islands Cultural Festival, more commonly known as Polyfest. âThe Ministry for Pacific Peoples is a longtime supporter of Polyfest and, as it celebrates 49 years in 2024, Iâm proud to ...
Before moving onto the substance of todayâs address, I want to recognise the very significant and ongoing contribution the Breast Cancer Foundation makes to support the lives of New Zealand women and their families living with breast cancer. I very much enjoy working with you. I also want to recognise ...
New Zealand has notched up a first with the launch of University of Canterbury research to the International Space Station, Science, Innovation and Technology and Space Minister Judith Collins says. The hardware, developed by Dr Sarah Kessans, is designed to operate autonomously in orbit, allowing scientists on Earth to study ...
Introduction Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and Iâm sorry I canât be there in person. Yesterday I started in Wellington for Breakfast TV, spoke to a property conference in Auckland, and finished the day speaking to local government in Christchurch, so it would have been ...
The Coalition Government is contributing more than $1 million to support the establishment of an emergency multi-agency coordination centre in Northland. Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced the contribution today during a visit of the WhangÄrei site where the facility will be constructed. âNorthland has faced a number ...
New Zealanders have enjoyed a broader range of voices telling the story of Aotearoa thanks to the creation of Whakaata MÄori 20 years ago, says MÄori Development Minister Tama Potaka. The minister spoke at a celebration marking the national indigenous media organisationâs 20th anniversary at their studio in Auckland on ...
Commercial catch limits for some fisheries have been increased following a review showing stocks are healthy and abundant, Ocean and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The changes, along with some other catch limit changes and management settings, begin coming into effect from 1 April 2024. "Regular biannual reviews of fish ...
Opposition MPs and unions are criticising a proposal by New Zealandâs Ministry of Pacific Peoples to cut staff by 40 percent. The countryâs largest trade union â The Public Service Association â says the ministry has informed staff that it is looking to shed 63 of 156 positions. Opposition MPs ...
A poem by Poetry Aotearoa Yearbook 2024 featured poet Carin Smeaton. Daughtr of the 90s when she gets promoted to usherette a baby blu eel carries her all the way up to mothership sheâs hovering high she lets the underaged in to see keanu reeves she lets the only lonely ...
Analysis by Keith Rankin. Keith Rankin, trained as an economic historian, is a retired lecturer in Economics and Statistics. He lives in Auckland, New Zealand. My earlier article â Can ‘Good’ be the Greater Evil? â looked at the issue of how wars should end, and how Good versus Evil ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Booksâ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 AMMA by Saraid de Silva (Moa Press, $38)A stunning debut novel reviewed by Brannavan ...
From Steve Martin to Ricky Stanicky, a pickânâmix of things worth watching and listening to this long weekend. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. If youâre at a loss for something to occupy yourself with this Easter, donât panic: The Spinoffâs got ...
Jesus had dinner with his 12 disciples right before he died. Noted historian Madeleine Chapman finds out who really deserved to be there.First published in 2018 but letâs be honest, the subject is timeless. As you sit on your couch this Easter Sunday, eating a chocolate egg you know ...
The newly-promoted Northern League club is on a mission to return to the National League for the first time in two decades. Plenty about domestic football in New Zealand has changed in that time â but the sense that this amateur competition is not an entirely level playing field remains. ...
Auckland Council has put a deadline on new weather-impacted property owners applying for categorisation as government funding looks set to run out. Councillors have voted to support a deadline of September 30 for property owners who havenât accessed support to come forward and engage with the councilâs recovery office. It ...
NONFICTION 1 BBQ Economics by Liam Dann (Penguin Random House, $40) “Itâs official,” wrote Dann nine days ago in the Herald, where he works as business editor at large, “weâre in recession.” Yeah, great. He delivered the bad stats: “GDP fell 0.1 percent in the December 2023 quarter, compared with ...
Comment: Every year on February 2, a dozen men in tuxedos and top hats approach the burrow of a groundhog in Gobbler’s Knob, Pennsylvania and entice the beaver-like rodent to emerge and predict the weather. If the groundhog, named Punxsutawney Phil, sees its own shadow when it is summoned, legend ...
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By Anneke Smith, RNZ News political reporter A petition urging the New Zealand government to provide urgent humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people has been tabled in the House. More than 200 people gathered on Parliamentâs forecourt today and they were met by MPs from Labour, the Greens and Te ...
Pacific Media Watch The Paris-based global media freedom watchdog RSF (Reporters Without Borders) has appealed for information about the âdisappearanceâ of Palestinian journalist Bayan Abusultan. She was reportedly last seen on March 19 among people âsequesteredâ in this weekâs raid and siege of Al Shifa hospital by Israeli troops in ...
EDITORIAL:The Jakarta Post It happens again and again; indigenous Papuans fall victim to Indonesian soldiers. This time, we have photographic evidence for the brutality, with videos on social media showing a Papuan man being tortured by a group of plainclothes men alleged to be the Indonesian Military (TNI) members. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robyn J. Whitaker, Director of the Wesley Centre for Theology, Ethics, and Public Policy & Associate Professor, New Testament, Pilgrim Theological College, University of Divinity A strange and eclectic range of activities takes place across these few weeks of the year. Some ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Panizza Allmark, Professor Visual & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University Itâs Easter weekend, which means many of us will be kicking back with the greatest hits on repeat. But whether youâre a boomer, or an â80s or ’90s kid, you might be ...
RNZ Pacific Fijiâs Acting Public Prosecutor has filed an appeal against the sentences of former prime minister Voreqe Bainimarama and suspended police chief Sitiveni Qiliho in their corruption case. Bainimarama was granted an absolute discharge for attempting to pervert the course of justice while Qiliho received a conditional discharge with ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Arosha Weerakoon, Senior Lecturer and General Dentist, School of Dentistry, The University of Queensland Casezy idea/Shutterstock How does toothpaste work? What did people use before toothpaste was invented? â Amelia, age 7, Meanjin (Brisbane) Thanks for your ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brett Hallam, Associate professor, UNSW Sydney IM Imagery/Shutterstock Solar SunShot is well named. The Australian government announced today it would plough A$1 billion into bringing back solar manufacturing to Australia, boosting energy security, swapping coal and gas jobs for those ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Dix, Research Fellow in Nutrition & Dietetics, The University of Queensland Easter is the time for chocolate. The shops are full of fantastically packaged and shiny chocolates in all shapes and sizes, making trips to the supermarket with children more challenging ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Felton, Adjunct Senior Researcher, University of South Australia Even in a stubborn cost-of-living crisis, it seems thereâs one luxury most Australians wonât sacrifice â their daily cup of coffee. Coffee sales have largely remained stable, even as financial pressures have ...
Mining company Trans-Tasman Resources has unexpectedly withdrawn its application for a consent to suck the valuable metals vanadium and titanium from the Taranaki seafloor, as it apparently wagers on the Government’s new fast-track process. It had spent two-and-a-half days putting its case to the Environmental Protection Agency’s decision-making committee, at ...
Contrary to the Associate Minister of Educationâs claims, analysis of Healthy School Lunches Programme - Ka Ora, Ka Ako assessments has revealed it provides excellent value for the taxpayer dollar, as a groundswell of public opposition to Government ...
Greenpeace says wannabe Taranaki seabed miner Trans-Tasman Resources is likely banking on Christopher Luxonâs fast-track process to side-step proper scrutiny of its Taranaki seabed mining proposal by bailing out of the Environmental Protection Agency hearing ...
Kiwis Against Seabed mining today slammed Australian owned would-be seabed miner Trans Tasman Resources (TTR) for abandoning its application to the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) to mine the seabed of the South Taranaki Bight. The company ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katie Attwell, Associate Professor, School of Social Sciences, The University of Western Australia Ground Picture/Shutterstock Months after COVID vaccines were introduced in 2021, governments and private organisations mandated them for various groups. Health and aged care workers were among the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Dzurak, Scientia Professor Andrew Dzurak, CEO and Founder of Diraq, UNSW Sydney Diraq For decades, the pursuit of quantum computing has struggled with the need for extremely low temperatures, mere fractions of a degree above absolute zero (0 Kelvin or ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne A national Essential poll, conducted March 20â24 from a sample of 1,150, gave the Coalition a 50â44 lead including undecided, a reversal ...
The Taxpayersâ Union has today made a formal request under the Regulations of the Peopleâs Republic of China on Open Government Information () for information held about how New Zealand Members of Parliament are spending taxpayer ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robert Nelson, Honorary Principal Fellow, The University of Melbourne A Byzantine depiction of the Eucharist in Saint Sophia Cathedral, Kyiv.Jacek555/Wikimedia Commons, CC BY-SA A nasty quarrel arose in the 11th century over what kind of bread should be used in holy ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Hesp, Professor, Flinders University Patrick Hesp In some parts of Australia, coastal dunes are retreating from the ocean at an alarming rate, as waves carve up the beach and wind blows the sand inland. But coastal communities are largely ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Heemsbergen, Senior Lecturer, Digital, Political, Media, Deakin University With an impressive 60% of the US smartphone market, Apple is undeniably big, but not a clear monopoly. Yet, years of innovation by Apple have effectively given the company its own exclusive ...
Whether youâre facing layoffs or are just an emotional junior staffer, itâs always a good idea to scout out a good crying place before you need it. Itâs an incredibly hard time for Wellington. Across the city, thousands of public servants are hearing tough news about redundancies and layoffs. Government ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Miller-Jones, Professor, Curtin University Nuclear explosions on a neutron star feed its jets. Danielle Futselaar and Nathalie Degenaar, Anton Pannekoek Institute, University of Amsterdam, CC BY-SA How fast can a neutron star drive powerful jets into space? The answer, it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daryl Adair, Associate Professor of Sport Management, University of Technology Sydney Earlier this week, independent MP Andrew Wilkie accused the AFL of conducting âoff the booksâ illicit drug testing to identify players using substances of abuse, then inappropriately withdrawing them from matches ...
The Governmentâs announcement that it will scrap plans for a vast marine sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands is âshamefulâ and will make it impossible for Aotearoa New Zealand to meet its international commitments, says the World Wide Fund for Nature ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Quiggin, Professor, School of Economics, The University of Queensland Shutterstock The federal government has bowed to pressure from the car industry, announcing it will relax proposed emissions rules for utes and vans and delay enforcement of the new standards ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Suzanne Rutland, Professor Emerita, University of Sydney In his latest book, Jewish Life in Medieval Spain, Jonathan Ray focuses on the tumult of the 14th century in Spain â a time of the plague, civil strife and war between the two largest ...
While creating a slate of world-class shows, Whakaata MÄori also developed a generation of world-class creatives. Television is an odd word. It mixes the Ancient Greek and Latin languages, and its most literal meaning is âfar-off sightâ. In the contemporary and living language of te reo MÄori, âwhakaataâ as a ...
Yesterday the UN Security Council passed a resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire in Israelâs war on Gaza. This significant step and the deteriorating humanitarian situation in Gaza prompted an urgent debate in the New Zealand Parliament. Leader ...
The Governmentâs decision to reduce access to continuous glucose monitors (CGM) not only threatens the lives of children with type 1 diabetes and increases the potential for âDead in Bedâ syndrome, but also threatens the health of their parents an ...
Apples are available year-round, but the wide variety on offer involves intensive scientific research â and large-scale commercialisation. Whatâs beautiful, red, sweet and crunchy? Tony Martinâs favourite kind of apple: Sassy. The CEO of apple and pear breeding organisation Prevar, Martinâs fondness for Sassy represents professional success as well as ...
Family violence specialist service Shine is calling on employers to stop asking for proof of domestic violence in order for employees to access domestic violence leave. The call comes five years after the introduction of the Domestic Violence ...
The Deputy Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee is calling for public submissions on the Budget Policy Statement 2024. The Budget Policy Statement 2024 (BPS) sets out the Government's priorities for the 2024 Budget. It explains the approach ...
Brutal government spending cuts that will see the size of the Ministry for Pacific Peoples slashed by 40% will hit Pasifika communities hard, the PSA says. The Ministry has told staff that it is seeking voluntary redundancies, and to redeploy and reassign ...
I live with five people I mostly love, but our different ideas about generosity are starting to really irk me.Want Heraâs help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,This is a bit of a random one but here goes. Iâm 22 and work an OK job (OK meaning I get paid ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Maria Nicholas, Senior Lecturer in Language and Literacy Education, Deakin University Earlier this month, the New South Wales government announced it would roll out programs for gifted students in every public school in the state. This comes amid concerns gifted school ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christopher Rudge, Law lecturer, University of Sydney Massachusetts General Hospital In a world first, we heard last week that US surgeons had transplanted a kidney from a gene-edited pig into a living human. News reports said the procedure was a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Tombs, Howard Paterson Chair of Theology and Public Issues, University of Otago The 5th-century Maskell panel showing Jesus in a loincloth.British Museum, CC BY-NC-SA When Jesus is shown on the cross, he is almost always depicted wearing a loincloth around ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Panizza Allmark, Professor Visual & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University Shutterstock When you think about a red object, you might picture a red carpet, or the massive ruby in the Queenâs crown. Indeed, Western monarchies and marketing from brands such ...
COMMENTARY:Jewish Voice for Peace The UN Security Council passed a resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire in Gaza on Monday â and for the first time since the beginning of the Israeli militaryâs genocide of Palestinians, the United States abstained rather than vetoing it. Security Council resolutions are legally binding, ...
Asia Pacific Report A New Zealand investigative journalist and author says the US spy system hosted by the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) appears to be a controversial intelligence system used in global capture-kill operations. Writing a commentary for RNZ News today, Nicky Hager, author of Secret Power, a 1996 ...
While Nicola Willis wouldnât give any details on its size, she said a package of tax cuts is definitely still coming in this yearâs budget, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoffâs morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
The Taxpayersâ Union is welcoming the investigation into the Department of Internal Affairs after it was revealed that the Departmentâs Chief Executive personally reached out to expedite a DJs passport application. Taxpayersâ Union Campaigns ...
Finance minister Nicola Willis delivers her first budget statement, and unwittingly helps Joel MacManus save his relationship. Nicola Willis strode into the Beehive Theatrette. Around me, on the green foldout seats, were the countryâs top business and political journalists. They were all here to see her announce the Budget Policy ...
Twenty years ago today, MÄori Television launched after much controversy. Jamie Tahana looks back on its survival and impact across two decades. Chad Chambers stepped onto the stage, the brim of his cap casting a shadow across his face. His smile beamed as bright as his white freezing works gumboots, ...
The unidentified foreign intelligence operation discussed in a scathing report by New Zealandâs Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security (IGIS) last week appears to be a controversial United States intelligence system. The IGIS report said the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) decision to host a foreign system from 2012-2020 was âimproperâ ...
Someone, please sell me the Green Party and its policies in terms of my self-interest without appealing to my conscience or my morals.
Because it’s all about you?
That didn’t do the trick. đ
For the vast amjority of voters less morally superior than you, karol, it probably is.
You have kids, grand kids?
Do you want them to have a planet worth living on?
Better, but a potential long-term threat that’s relatively nebulous or worse, seems too vast to deal with as an individual, isn’t enough to get me out of chair to vote. But me personally, I don’t have kids or grand-kids.
I’m playing devil’s advocate here, by the way.
Without your conscience or morals?
The Green Party is not interested in the sociopath class vote.
You said a few days ago that the most urgent matter for NZ was to raise the living standards for the larger community. http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-03062013/#comment-642782 The Greens’ policies would arguably come closest to contributing to such a project. Certainly closer than National’s, who are into concentrating wealth into few hands, and also closer than Labour’s, who seem to be too scared of offending National voters to commit themselves to anything that might bring about real change.
Hello Olwyn. Yes, I did say that. As an arbitrary figure, let’s be ambitious and say the bottom 65%. The other 35% are doing ok and can take care of themselves, in my view, although the question of universal benefits vs. means-testing is going to continue to pose questions for all parties.
I don’t count myself in that 35% by the way, nor was I born into it. Personally, I’ve never voted for a conservative/tory party in my life, unless you want to include the Lange goverment… and to be fair, to those of us who were young at the time, we thought we were getting something else. But that’s history now.
Say for instance, I’m a disengaged or soft-left voter (which I’m not really, despite all appearances and assumptions) who is concerned about living standards and public services, then how would you specifically address these concerns? Because I think most people will respond to issues surrounding pollution, building standards or resources, but if you come straight out and ask that people that are already having a tough time to save the planet from some future fate, then it’s not so persuasive because it’s an abstracted reality that isn’t going to help them now. That doesn’t make them a sociopath; it makes them human.
It doesn’t need to be either living standards and public services or climate change responses. The NZ Green Party is tackling both. And some like Jenny think heir strong focus on poverty means they are selling out.
Many of us realise that the Greens need to put a lot of stress on issues of poverty, housing, retaining assets etc, because the general public tends to associated them most with environmental issues. Actually, the Greens, following the earlier Values party, see all those issues as part of a whole. However, you will note that the two party leaders’ speeches last weekend focused on the key government’s divisive cronyist support of the well-off, and on child poverty.
Meanwhile Kennedy Graham’s climate change conference at parliament is coming up on Friday.
Karol, Why do you keep misrepresenting my position? I applaud the Green Party focus on poverty. What I condemn is their down playing of climate change.
In saying that the Green party is tackling both Karol. How about supplying some evidence?
Furrball: If you are a soft left voter, a statement like this might resonate with you, âWeâve got news for SkyCity: unlike other political parties we didnât take your campaign donations and we didnât go to your corporate box at the rugby.
âYour tools of crony capitalism donât work with us ⊠and if the people of New Zealand tell us to turn off the tap on your blood money, then we bloody well will.â
No, it does not tell you exactly what you will gain from the Green Party, but it does outline a general position, in relation to which a party can be held to account. It also suggests that the speaker, Russell Norman, is prepared to put up a fight on behalf of people who are not rich enough to be included among the cronies.
In comparison, promises that are made without an accompanying general position can end up meaning something very different than what they first seem to suggest.
Aren’t you a cheeky little monkey then, eh?
Not really an ideal way to promote the Greens to gay, trans, and infertile people.
Populuxe 1
Who’s being holier than thou now eh?
Still you, prism – aided by your tin ear for rhetoric.
Gay, trans, and infertile people are all actually quite capable of having kids.
I don’t completely agree with the “for the future” style of aspirational politics, but nevertheless, no need to shit on non-standard family setups.
Can do, but most, me included, don’t
Thank fuck for that.
I see you are still getting the hang of the Standard, Furrball.
I doubt any of us here really care who you, or any other individual, votes for. Those of us on the left would prefer most voters vote left, but I doubt many, if any come here to evangelise or convert or solicit individual votes for a particular party. We come here to talk politics. If you’re wanting “quotes” from political parties from which to choose the best deal for you, I suggest you find and then compare each party’s stated policies.
No, you’re the one who is misunderstanding me. I’m trying to get a sense of how those who seem enthusiastic about the Green party and its policies can communicate and persuade effectively with those beyond its base.
Want to get beyond 10%? Or is this board just an echo-chamber?
It was clear where you are coming from. There’s more to party policy than gaining the treasury benches.
You seem to me to be still to be looking to apply individualistic “neoliberal” marketing policies. Many of us want to get beyond slick managerialist marketing approaches and want a return to conviction politics.
Also, what’s the point of Greens being in government, if they aim to extend their vote by ditching their principles? I want them there to hold the lost tribe of Labour Caucus leadership to account. An underlying value through all the Greens mission statements etc, is that they are for the collective, and don’t elevate self-interested individualism above the collective good.
The Greens actually have a very good approach to getting their policies into the media. I reckon Laila Harre is probably doing a very good job.
There was a major lesson from Clark’s government of 9 years. Pandered to the centrist vote, and self interest, and put individualistic “neoliberalism” into a holding pattern. Then along came Key’s government and ruthlessly undid any good they did.
We need to think beyond the short term goal of just getting into government. there’s too much at stake for the future.
Times are changing. Time to return to conviction politics and to engage honestly and directly with the disengaged (non) voters. More slick and cynical managerial marketing approaches is just using the methods that have already resulted in disengaged voters.
Whose echo chamber? Your approach seems like the echo chamber of the current Labour caucus leadership – locked into their own managerialist bubble.
No, communication isn’t necessarily about ‘neo-liberalism’, nor is marketing a policy, it’s a technique used in politics since the dawn of time, although it hasn’t always been called that. I’ve already seen the dismay here and elsewhere, when David Shearer is perceived to have failed to communicate effectively. Conviction isn’t enough on its own.
But I think you’re on the same wavelength that I’m making when you say that ‘to engage honestly and directly with the disengaged (non) voters.’… and given that environmental issues are usually low on many voter’s priorities, compared to the economy and jobs, health, education, housing etc. my point is, how do you engage directly with those who are disengaged and less likely to vote, or to those wavering or undecided. Because not all of them have the time or inclination to read a manifesto, but they may pay attention to their mates, their colleagues, their family etc…
And here’s a question for you: What makes you think that extending the Green vote means ditching principles?
Extending the Green vote doesn’t necessarily mean ditching their principles. It depends how it’s done.
The Greens are working on it.
Yes, I agree communication is the issue. But I don’t think some top down branding exercise is the way.
Communication is two-way. Contemporary marketing approaches tend to be more of a one-way process, attempting to control and shift perceptions and behaviour in pre-decided ways. And, as the MSM tends to follow the corporate way, genuine communications between a party and the communities needs to be done in through other platforms, as well as on the ground in the community.
The Greens and Mana have been much more engaged with two way processes, on the ground and, especially for the Greens, using social media. Dialogue and conversation are more open processes than marketing approaches and slogans: they can be messier. While some succinct core messages are helpful, they are useful only as far as they provide some coherence to the wider processes.
The Labour Caucus is aiming to use marketing techniques and the MSM to communicate with the “centrist” middle-classes, largely through one-way processes.
As I understand it, in the past, the Labour Party’s strength was in the way it engaged with communities on the ground and via it’s membership. These days the Caucus has retreated into their Wellington bubble.
The Greens are far more connected and engaged with their membership in a democratic way.
“Or is this board just an echo-chamber?”
– Pretty much đ
And yet, here you are.
Furball, raise a point that illustrates part of a policy that you find lacking then perhaps someone who supports that policy will enter into a dialogue on the topic. (also works with news music art and science for example) If you just want stimulus response sound-bites gift wrapped with pretty sales tags, I suspect this is not the right place for your political edification.
See, characterising my question as ‘stimulus response sound-bites gift wrapped with pretty sales tags’ is little more than a strawman designed to deflect rather than address, to trivialise rather than engage.
What’s more, it’s a fairly cliquest attempt to define what the purpose of any community should be about, ruling out discussion or perspectives that don’t meet some ill-defined and arbitary standards known only to the cognoscenti. In fact, it comes across as fairly elitist and vaguely oppressive.
Nice one. đ
Furrball, if you want to have a conversation – raise a topic and make an argument.
Your supercilious attitude toward this community just makes you look like a dick in my opinion.
You’re too kind.
You could have a conversation with Pete George?
Yep, hir posts seem like those of someone who has parachuted in here, without fully familiarising hirself with the community and the kind of on-going conversations, to tell us that shi knows better. Kind of seems like lecturing us rather than engaging sincerely in the conversation; and without any effort to gain an in depth understanding of the current context and where people here are at in dealing with it.
That’s bound to get antagonistic responses.
Underneath there seems to be a different political philosophy, involving a top down approach – more akin to the current Labour Caucus than that of the Green MPs, IMO.
Mana and The Greens are trying more to engage with the disengaged communities in a bottom up way.
Mana is taking the lead there. But the Greens also have been making very good use of social media too engage, as well as with their community engagements, and with their membership, and reaching out to non-members through various networks..
The Greens used the asset sales petition process well in engaging on the ground, IMO.
There’s a clear misunderstanding where I’m coming from. At no point have I advocated top down structures or organising. In fact, I’ve already signposted the work that Arnie Graf is doing with the Labour Party in the UK in order to rebuild and reshape how membership and the party works along community-building lines. And it’s interesting to hear how you think the Green party are engaging in communicating, particularly to non-members and the third sector.
I’ll also add that I’m not generally here to insult people or to cast aspersions upon them, but I’m curious to tease out some people’s thinking in order to learn more about leftwing politics in New Zealand and occasionally, I have some points to make, which I would never expect to meet universal peer approval.
It’s easy to call people dicks or accuse them of thinking they knowing better, but I try to avoid it if I can. The only recent point which seemed absurd to me was being challenged on the fact that I was posting from London, which struck me as irrelevant to what I had posted. Want to tear people down? No problem. If it helps some to feel better, that’s cool too.
Furrball, you seemed to be the one making something of posting from London, and seemed to imply you had some superior knowledge as a result of your activities there.
Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, and it was just the result of jumping in quickly into the forum, but that’s how it came across. Your first comments did focus on where you thought the NZ left was going wrong (at least online), rather than looking like someone trying to find out what is happening here.
Reading “I’m in London” as signifying a sense of superiority rather than seeking deeper locally-grounded information reflects less on Furrball than on those making such assumptions. Same with painting political communication as ‘top-down’. Fortunately the Greens have grown beyond that.
One for Furrball: the Greens’ economic policies promise smart higher-paid jobs in sustainable industries that will keep our young people here rather than send more of them overseas. That may interest some voters, if they can get past the smears about ‘printing money’.
No, stating that I was posting from London was meant to signal that I wasn’t on the ground, for instance, and couldn’t get into the weeds of political personalities or current events… and initially, all I was interested in doing was linking some hopefully useful work that’s being done in the Labour party over here with Arnie Graf that has some potential bearing on the future of the NZ Labour party, if it’s to remain relevant… as well as my communications work in the voluntary sector and some awareness of some processes within Organising For America.
None of this is top down, because it won’t fly anymore, especially with those in their teens to perhaps the mid-thirties. I sense we’re on common ground.
Then, I outlined from my perspective what I thought was the core issue at stake in this coming election which was to do something about comparatively poor living standards which embraces wages, jobs, tenancy rights, public services and a whole bunch aside. Some took this as an attack on New Zealand, which is just utterly pitiful bollocks, to be frank… and personalising it to a degree which ultimately is boring and unproductive.
Finally, trying to put tease out some thinking behind those who support the Greens and trying to understand winning but broad succinct ideas that have a relevance to everyday concerns, instead of being nagged with phrases akin to:
âą you should care
âą you’re a sociopath if you vote out of self-interest
âą the planet’s going to burn/drown
In themselves, they’re not vote winners… and they’re not persuasive to those outside the base. In fact, they seem more aimed at enforcing orthodoxy and conformity, which sorta runs against bottom-up organising.
I’ve got to split. Deadline for tomorrow. Thanks for everyone’s posts. Be excellent to each other.
It wasn’t just “I’m in London” but a reference to the work shi has been doing there associated with some other statements, implying that gave hir a very good insight into how political parties in NZ should be working.
It was the references to branding, and party’s way of promoting themselves, using business methods, that seemed to be taking a top down position.
Cheers, matey. Hope you meet the deadline. Let us know how it goes, okay? Cheers again, and thanks for commenting!
You’ll have to forgive them, Furball – many of the commentors here tend to the ideologically purist rather than a more pragmatic and ad hoc approach. For all their talk of rejecting top-down models, they do seem to cling to a vertical model of academic privilege moralising to the working class about the latter’s ignorance of theory. You can sort of tell by the way they are claiming you have joined unprepared and are therefore ignorant – a classic example of protection of privilege.
If I were to promote Green Party policy, I would focus on its horizontal organisational structure, and I think it would need to show some of its initiatives working on a small scale basis first. Basically I think the strength of the Greens is that they offer something different to the dictatorial model of the larger parties. Their biggest weakness is that they have little in the way of concrete policy other than a waving of hands and abstract nouns.
Don’t know what you are talking about there. The Greens have heaps of policy: http://www.greens.org.nz/policy
handle: “Donât know what you are talking about there. The Greens have heaps of policy”
Admittedly there’s a lot utopian goals, but it’s all very light on how to fund it an dthe steps to be taken to get there.
Fb is being a bit disengenuous. Early on shi was making assumptions about the left in NZ, promoting a “professional” business-like approach for the left, and aggressively dismissing those who disagree as reactionary old Trotskyists. Later this was followed by comments about those opposed as being ideologically-driven and talking here in an echo chamber.
Populuxe1-from your later post
“Admittedly thereâs a lot utopian goals, but itâs all very light on how to fund it and the steps to be taken to get there.”
To be fair, that can be said of every single political party in NZ. Most worryingly and perhaps most obviously by our current Government whose varuious policy pages read like rejected Tui billboards.
I missed this earlier, Populuxe.
…….You can sort of tell by the way they are claiming you have joined unprepared and are therefore ignorant â a classic example of protection of privilege.
I’m not “moralising to the working class”, I am working class.
Check your own privilege.
Furball
If you were pondering this in NZ you would find you are not alone. Many Kiwis are finally having some serious internal debates about the relevance of Green’s policies to everyday life. In no way should any criticism of how you raise the issue be indicative of seeing the issue itself as not being important. Policies matter, your own life matters. The Venn intersection of those two realms deserves clarity. Clarity in your own internal reasoning and for actively sharing the eventual understanding of policies that is critical to political growth.
This is a fundamental question any voter should rightfully engage in. The quagmire of crony-ism we currently call a Parliament illustrates how very few actually do. Lack of basic comprehensions of policy impact is undoubtedly at fault. I suspect this is an educational failing (a failure by design?) more to do with the lack of ‘part of your day’ socio-political culture in NZ. This deficiency is so comparably existent throughout most modern Democracies it is hard to believe it was not a deliberate incremental manipulation of society. But I digress.
How a person deciphers policy is hugely important to their life and their vote. Obviously the success and failures of representational democracy is reliant upon those enmasse decisions having some stability and this desperately needs discourse on the group-think level of comprehension. Blogs are challenging, often volatile places, like all new media, they are evolving. It is perhaps one of the first political tools where input directly and immediately contributes to the output.
Why not submit a post outlining your particular questions about the Green’s policies and how they relate to your self-interest? In fact no-one else can, because as you pointed out , you are asking for others’ opinions on what your self-interests are. If we do not plainly understand the problem a policy presents to your self-interest, how can anyone help explain it to you?
+1 Yeah Furrball I know you’re a tall poppy and all but js has just given you an idea of how to go about getting a conversation going – it’s pretty basic really.
karol summed it up right out of the box
“Because itâs all about you?”
js
Isn’t Furrball in the UK? I wonder why the deep and abiding concern to find out about Greens policies? The questions seem like an idle pursuit somehow filling in time annoying people who are stupid policy wonks. Maybe it is planned to have a special vote, if that’s what overseas votes are called. Perhaps by the time the election happens late next year, some mature understanding of NZ politics will have been gained.
Oh get over yourself, it’s tiresome. Furball will be getting most of their information the same way most of us do – by internet or by broadcasts available over the internet. Living here doesn’t make one more informed, and in any case what’s with all this nationalistic hating on expats? It’s ugly.
Could you point to some of this “hating” please?
The snotty tone of the prism comment above – but why do I even bother? You deliberately cultivate obtuseness the way John Key cultivates his smarmy grin, and for much the same reasons
You have to be very careful inferring “tone” from the written word, Pop.
What you call ‘cultivating obtuseness’ is really just me asking you to indicate the basis for your conclusions, which more often than not turns out to be nothing more than some preconception you arrived with fully formed, and nothing whatsoever to do with anything anyone else said or did.
The above is a textbook example. No hate is one display, if it was you’d have pointed to it immediately.
Whenever you find yourself inferring “tone” from a comment, it’s advisable to stop, take a few breaths, and read it again calmly and slowly. You’ll be surprised how often the tone is overlaid by the reader.
An easy mistake to make, one most of us are guilty of from time to time, and potentially a very unhealthy one if left unchecked.
As someone who was an expat living overseas for a couple of decades, I would concur with Prism and don’t see any ex-pat hating there. When overseas, I kept up an interest in NZ, but in no way saw myself as knowledgeable enough to comment in any depth on the (then) current situation in NZ. I stopped voting in NZ elections after I took up residence in the UK, because I felt I no longer was in touch with the situation here, and would barely be impacted by the nature of government here.
I did not begin to get a more comprehensive up-dated understanding of the politics here until I had been living back here for some time.
Because you benefit from living in a healthy, well-educated community rather than having to tolerate the ignorant and be at risk from catching an illness.
By focusing on minimizing poverty and the deleterious effects of same within the community at large, the Greens policies will reduce the amount of tax money spent on healthcare in the short to medium term, and especially over the long term. In turn, this will mean tax money can be spent on other things, which ultimately means you will be able to get a tax cut in the future, or that taxes will not need to rise as much in the future.
“Someone, please sell me the Green Party and its policies in terms of my self-interest without appealing to my conscience or my morals.”
We would need to know more about you Furrball, and what things would meet your self-interest needs. In the meantime, why not look at the GP website, it’s pretty obvious from that what they are about.
For what it’s worth Furball, I reckon you almost raised a reasonable point. But your assumption is wrong. I mean – is the Green Party only appealing to people on the basis of their conscience or morals? I don’t think so.
eg, they have proposed monetary policies that run counter to austerity, which, you might say are an appeal to common sense as well as the collective back pocket. They have proposed putting nurses into schools which, again, is an appeal to common sense as opposed to an appeal to conscience or morals. And there’s the housing policy and so on….
Good points, Bill.
And they do it within a more collective mindset about the experience of, and measures to counter, poverty, while also, most likely engaging those on low incomes.
+1
“Someone, please sell me the Green Party and its policies in terms of my self-interest without appealing to my conscience or my morals.”
It’s not going to happen, Furball.
Greens just isn’t the party for you. See if they were, their policies and philosophies would already be resonating with you. Simple as that.
Get involved in discussions around a party that does speak to your needs and beliefs and leave the Greens well alone.
National’s blog is here: http://kiwiblog.co.nz
Labour has one here: http://blog.labour.org.nz.
He’s playing Devil’s Advocate, felix, on the point of “what do the Green’s need to sell to get them above ~10% in the election”.
What? Sort of like a cult? One has to have faith and just know? Hahahahahahahahahaha
Not at all Pop. I’m saying that if a party’s well documented and easily accessible philosophies, principles and policies don’t appeal to you, then don’t vote for them.
Quite the opposite of a faith-based approach.
Karl Popper would disagree
That’s nice dear but he doesn’t often comment here. Do you disagree with what I wrote? And if so, how and why?
What makes you think Popper would disagree? He’s mostly famous for his theory of falsifiability, and I don’t see how that applies to what Felix wrote at all.
You should read his “Conjectures and Refutations: The Growth of Scientific Knowledge”. Lack of falsifiability directly applies to felix’s spin on good old fashioned historical determinism that underlies all Greens policy, without the convenience of a five or seven year plan that actually explains how we will bring this brave new environmentally friendly and socialistically utopian world about.
I didn’t say anything whatsoever about historical determinism.
Do you agree or disagree with the very simple straightforward statement I actually made, or have you not gotten around to reading it yet?
I disagree because you keep talking about Green policy as if it is some consistent, coherent body of philosophies and policies that one can “resonate” with when in fact it is as relativist and adaptive as any other party in pursuit of political influence. Your faith (which it what that is because there are no testible hypotheses involved) that this hotchpotch can bring about a better society is derrived from a combination of neo-Marxist historical determinism and the sulferous whiff of Social Credit lunacy
Weird.
I’m pretty sure all I said was that the commenter above should vote for the party that best represents them, and that the measures to determine which party that is will be the party’s easily accessible and well documented policies, principles and philosophies.
I have no idea why you’re talking about some faith that I supposedly hold, as none of what I said had anything whatsoever to do with my own preference.
I have read it. It has nothing to do with Felix’s short statement about voting. On the surface, it seems that you haven’t read the post you replied to.
I was referring to the notion one should vote for the party whose philosophy one “resonates” with rather than systematically analysing policy. The arrogant refusal to justify this fits very neatly with Popper’s analysis of Marxism.
God you talk a load of shit.
Firstly, you don’t even bother to think about, or ask, what Felix meant by ‘resonate’. I figured he meant that one should analyse a party’s policy and candidates and see if it fits. So there is more than a whif of false dichotomy about your whole line of thought.
Secondly, politics is mostly about trust. You need to work out which party and candidates you trust, and yes, that takes ‘faith’. But that is the case no matter who, what, (and how) you decide to support.
Tell us how you make the call, and explain how it isn’t made on ‘faith’ Pop.
“I was referring to the notion one should vote for the party whose philosophy one âresonatesâ with rather than systematically analysing policy.”
Who’s notion is that, Pop? It’s certainly not one drawn from my comments, which specifically mentioned the well documented and easily accessible policies.
I agree with Murray, you don’t seem to have read the comment you’re replying to. Or to put it another way, you’re replying to a comment which only exists in your own mind.
I also agree with Pb, you do talk a lot of shit.
Your cannabis plants will have a higher percentage of organic THC. All beer will be half price and organic, so you’ll never get a hangover again. You will become incredibly sexually attractive overnight. Is that enough?
On a more serious note, I’m starting to really like the Greens. They seem pretty inclusive, have a focus on living standards, and take the environment seriously. They want to do something different about the country’s finances than follow the neoliberal cookbook. If you want to live in a fairer society where fewer people are on the bones of their arse, I think they’re a better bet than any party bigger than them. They also maintain a mixture of activism and parliamentary work.
Not bad. đ
Is that Kim Hill on my RNZ this morning?
Yes Karol, indeed it was ! Fingers crossed that we may get some real questions asked of our political “masters”. Much as I respect the urbane Geoff, that’s the problem – – – he’s just too polite to tackle meateaters such as Collins and Joyce.
And Metiria Turei just stood up well under the Hill scrutiny.
Labour-Green, not Labour-led; Kye is the divisive one in that he governs for the wealthy and not those in poverty; Greens meet with Labour regularly, send them some policies, consult on others on a case-by-case basis, and they are working on how they maintain their differences from Labour. And the voters will decide how many Green ministers there’d be in a progressive government.
Unbelievable. Aucklanders own less cars per head than the average for cities in NZ. Meanwhile, in 2016, Swanson railway station will no longer serve passengers when the line is upgrade to electric.
Good article here karol
http://transportblog.co.nz/2013/05/30/end-of-the-line-for-waitakere/
The only place to read about transport matters for Auckland.
Not done and dusted yet Karol. And intensification around the station should make AT think again.
Slightly confusing article. It is the Swanson to Waitakere township link that they are talking about.
Thanks, micky. Amd Kevin, while I usually agree with the ATB posts, I disagree with that one. Like micky says, there’s major long term developments happening around the Massey area. It’s being developed as a key hub, with upgrade of the shopping centre etc.
The whole Kumeu are looks to be a rising centre. They will need more and diverse public transport out that way, not less.
To confirm Karol. Swanson station will remain open. Swanson to Waitakere Village will be serviced by busses, there is very little demand there. The demand in Helensville is also very low especially since the North Western Motorway was completed. The headline is not correct although the story is.
OK. Thanks, micky. However, I also think the decision to close Waitakere to Helensville is very short-sighted. I think demand will rise in those areas in the next decade.
Buses will help, but I think passenger rail services need to be extended further north. There needs to be better bus services to and from the Kumeu area.
Sometime ago some thoughts were swapped with a commenter on here about what makes a culture or people indigenous in New Zealand. It was interesting and the upshot gained imo was that indigeneity is something that moves along a sliding timeframe as other peoples and cultures arrive and morph and mix with any pre-existing peoples and cultures, as has happenned to reach the current state of indigineity.
It got mine wee brain to thinking… that means at some point pakeha must also become indigenous to New Zealand. That they become of and from here, the culture has developed into itself independently from its place of origin, despite links back… there are various definitions …
Putting aside for a moment any ideas about the effects that such a state may have on Maori and their current position (for the purpose of clarity of argument)… if this is so and indigeniety moves then at what point in time would pakeha become indigenous to New Zealand? Or has that point already passed? Is it the next generation? Or some more generations off?
…. a short and incomplete take of a big subject ….
I’ve been looking into my family history – the sad reality is that many of my ancestors are serial colonisers, though also sometimes the colonised and/or class-oppressed. But they have been a nomadic lot over the centuries. I can’t say they are indigenous anywhere except maybe somewhere in northern Europe – just mongrels and nomads. Normans, anglo-saxons, celts, vikings, high & low class Scots, Anglo-Irish.
So I don’t, and never will count myself or my extended family as indigenous New Zealander. I don’t think any of my family’s future generations ever will be. I count us as New Zelanders. I’m quite happy with that. What’s the need to creep towards claiming indigenous status?
“Whatâs the need to creep towards claiming indigenous status?”
No need. It is simple curiousity and a desire to explore the intricacies of pakeha in NZ.
Pakeha culture and people here would seem to have developed sufficiently here to be called its own, despite those links back to many other cultures. Pakeha culture is not british, nor irish, nor chinese, nor german. It is a mix of various cultures that has developed in these islands as a result of various migrations and mixings since the first whalers and sealers around 1800. It has also mixed in with Maori culture of course to varying degrees. All of these factors seem to satisfy some of the requirements for a culture and people to call itself its own.
Yep. I’m happy with the term Pakeha. No need to try to usurp indigenous status. My look at the history shows that Pakeha history is what it is – a mix of good and bad – a mongrel culture; a bunch of nomads.
It’s interesting because under the UN indigenous ‘definition’ it relates strongly to peoples who existed in a place prior to the arrival of, essentially, europeans during their colonising wave which swept the world. But the term also strongly incorporates features such as those of belonging to a certain place, having a culture that has developed there, having distinct political, social and other systems, etc.
Of course pakeha did not exist prior to that wave of european colonisation here but in most all other respects it seems the requirements for indigeniety are met. Is it possible to have two or more indigenous peoples in one place (subject to the pre-colonisation point)?
Mate, it just looks like you’re trying to over-ride and usurp the tangata whenua. Giving Pakeha tangata whenua status will just further serve to erase historical memory and and the trauma of Pakeha colonisation. There are two seperate histories. Trying to twist the definitions of “indegenous” to incorporate Pakeha will just blur the historical differences.
Pakeha is what it is – live with it. Tangata whenua have a long painful history that should not be buried.
karol, where have i suggested any of those assumptions of yours? it sounds to me like you don’t like certain questions being asked and that sort of prohibition has a badly potted history across time.
Yes … on the other hand my family has been here since 1832. She arrived from San Francisco and was probably the very first professional midwife in this country. (This is not to discount the fact that Maori women had been looking after their needs in this respect for a very long time, however my ancestors services were in demand and appreciated by both Maori and Pakeha. Her daughter recalls her having a stand-up argument with none other than Hone Heke and winning her case.) Another branch of my mother’s family arrived from the Yukon in 1838. We’ve been her seven generations now.
If you wanted to undo colonisation (a wicked and evil thing according to received wisdom) … exactly where would you send us white trash back to? Where is our whenua tapu?
If you wanted to undo colonisation (a wicked and evil thing apparently) ⊠exactly where would you send us white trash back to? Where is our whenua tapu?
It’s in the history that you articulate. We don’t need to go back to anywhere – just acknowledge the journey and the history.
A place is more than a geographical location. It’s a state of mind, a way of thinking, an understanding.
I think what is being expressed by redlogix and myself is an exploration of pakeha’s place in these islands. It is not a settled issue, yet it is very important to people – just as it is with any people.
This exploration is of course not intended to negate anything concerning Maori – their place and history is acknowledged.
It is at the same time a simple and a complex question. It is important, crucial, it has not been comprehensively answered.
Why do you think someone else can give you an answer?
What is the ‘Pakeha-ness’ that has evolved here? Answer that, and you answer the question, surely?
We donât need to go back to anywhere â just acknowledge the journey and the history.
Which is a very fine answer. And which I’d suggest is not too far removed from vto’s first comment:
Of course pakeha did not exist prior to that wave of european colonisation here but in most all other respects it seems the requirements for indigeniety are met.
I don’t think vto was at all suggesting any sort of “erasing from memory”; but eventually with time and intermarriage the past gradually releases it’s grip on the present. For an obvious example, there can be few in modern Britain today who still counts anyone with Norman ancestory as a ‘foreign coloniser’.
But my Norman ancestors WERE foreign colonisers, even if many of my contemporaries don’t recognise that.
“For an obvious example, there can be few in modern Britain today who still counts anyone with Norman ancestory as a âforeign coloniserâ.”
maybe not in England đ
The idea that being indigenous is some kind of movable label is wrong imo and often used to diminish cultures, but to what end? Why do it? It is not to raise up the culture attempted to be rammed into that classification, it is to diminish the culture already accepted within that definition – why do that? Sadly it is a continuation of colonisation – you see if you can’t kill off the others you try to assimilate them into your dominant group and if you can’t do that then eventually you try this tactic of making the dominant culture equivalent to the indigenous culture – it is on the same spectrum just a bit further along the line.
Yes and no. Not so much cultural memory…at least, not without it being actively suppressed. And since colonisation here was a process of one culture dominating another instead of a marriage or a synthesis of two (or more) cultures, and since that domination is ongoing, then the past rightfully grips the present in NZ and sometimes even manages to grab it by the balls.
You want to move beyond the bi-furcated reality of NZ? Then decolonise your head and move the institutions of NZ out of the space they currently occupy, radically changing them in the process.
And that second part (if it is to be at all meaningful) requires much more than any PC acknowledgement of Maori culture while maintaining current social/economical/political contexts. It means building new contexts.
Yes … the Normans were foreign colonisers, but modern Britain does not function on the basis that those with Anglo-Saxon heritage have a special place and privilege in the nation’s life.
That is my point. The past does not get erased, but nor is it set in aspic. Time does change things.
The part that confuses me is what it is supposed to change.
Say we agree that Pakeha culture is something that is distinct from settler cultures throughout the former British Empire, that a unique culture has indeed evolved here. (I’m not saying it has or it hasn’t).
So what? How does it change the debate in any way at all?
” what it is supposed to change”
I don’t know and I don’t think the issue has made it that far yet. We as a country are still working out the position. It is part of an exploration and most explorations do not know where they will end up or what they will find.
What is supposed to change is something that can be answered further down the track, if it needs to be at all…
For the sake of argument: Done. you’re indegenous. Now what?
My View:
Treaty still needs to be honoured, and honouring that is part of Pakeha identity.
“Treaty still needs to be honoured, and honouring that is part of Pakeha identity.”
That is it – you have nailed it Pb.
And if honouring the Treaty means that us Pakehas are forever to be regarded as tangata manuhiri in this land, then on what basis are we to ever develop a true nationhood?
If nothing else the left constantly bemoans how our right wing politicians constantly sell-out this country to foreign interests in one form or another, yet how are we to measure loyalty to a home that we merely perch upon?
This is something Helen Clark understood quite well, the need to build a national identity across the entire community. And where John Key falls so very short.
The treaty says we belong here Red, we can honour it if we so choose. It is by honouring it that we cease to be just perched here, IMHO.
“Pakehas are forever to be regarded as tangata manuhiri in this land”
Perhaps you should try to understand – guests are honoured – you and your people are honoured – if MÄori go to an area where they don’t come from they are considered tangata manuhiri and they are honoured. It is not an insult – it is a compliment and if you learned a bit about MÄori culture you’d learn that – stop looking at everything through the distorted lens you are currently using red you are better than that imo.
Valid points here and there above…
Re honouring the treaty, that has always been a given, even with its problems. As stated recently the call should be to honour the treaty and then improve it, or fix it.
But the treaty is just one part and Redlogix hints at a problem with that, and that is that pakeha are only here due to the treaty and that the treaty underpins our place. I don’t accept that entirely. The treaty has been a starting point, one of the foundation stones for sure, but it is not the sole plank. Pakeha’s place here stems from not just the treaty but also this idea that pakeha culture and pakeha people are now “of here”. Our basis for existence is similar to that of Maori in this regard i.e. we are people of the land as well, though in perhaps a modified form. We are of these islands as much as others. This position has developed with the passage of time.
This is the point which many find uncomfortable I suspect, but it doesn’t negate anybody else or their positions or special status etc. It is simply an acknowledgement that pakeha are rightfully of these lands. We are not guests, we are home. And this position arises separately from the treaty, the English system which came over, current constitutional arrangements, immigration laws, and all of that other formal structure which sits here and there.
This issue is actually solely about pakeha. How have they come to be, how have they developed since arrival, what are they now and where are they heading in the future. Imo it pays to consider this issue independently from Maori and their own place here, despite the intricate tie-up. That is another issue which follows quickly on.
“We are not guests, we are home. And this position arises separately from the treaty”
Your western interpretation of guest is not the same as MÄori. Think of it like rats – westerners often portray rats as dirty and so on but within other cultures a rat is seen differently, for instance the chinese year of the rat says, “People born in this year are expected to possess qualities associated with rats, including creativity, intelligence, honesty, generosity, ambition, a quick temper and wastefulness.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat It is the same rat but viewed differently depending upon culture. Guest is not a derogatory term it is a specific term denoting the relationship between people – many terms in te ao MÄori relate to the relationship between people such as tuakana and so on.
Yes you are home I haven’t read any disputation of that idea but that is a long way away from being indigenous which was your original ‘poser’. You may say that you are home and that status or position is separate from the Treaty – that is your right and some may agree – I disagree.
Seems to me that the whole debate is framed in time and space, as opposed to being seen in a continuum, and the actors are being set upon distinct stages to play set parts…who the players are is but a chance of birth. We the audience view the whole together, through different glasses. As the French would say, “vive la difference”.
Yes you have a good point. I have tried to view a continuum of sorts with the original point around sliding timeframes wrt belonging and when that point arrives.
And yes the French manner of viewing things through a kind of mirror at times highlights things missed – vive la difference indeed.
Why you call yourself white trash is beyond me red – have some pride in your heritage mate – you seem to allude to that pride in your paragraph about your family but for me it gets washed away quite quickly when you use the white trash term.
You could answer your own last question and it would have nothing to do with being indigenous to this land or not.
Why you call yourself white trash is beyond me red
Irony my friend … a bit like my chocolate .. dark and and a little bitter.
Nice – I like mine with nuts in it – oh well, says it all really.
“She arrived from San Francisco and was probably the very first professional midwife in this country. (This is not to discount the fact that Maori women had been looking after their needs in this respect for a very long time,”
Sorry Red, but I think that does discount Maori midwives. If you had said “and was probably the very first professional pakeha midwife in this country.” you wouldn’t have rendered invisible the nature of Maori midwives at that time.
I would add that there weren’t really any professional European or American midwives at that time, other than that there were competent midwives who got paid in some way for their service. But midwifery itself wasn’t a ‘profession’ then, as we understand the term now.
Awesome story about your ancestor though, I bet there have been many interesting stories in her life.
Karol – I agree with you. Pakeha is unique to Aotearoa-NZ, just as Maori are.
I also think we (Pakeha) still have a long way to go before we reach collectively a real understanding of Maoritanga. It seems to me that we continue to be “two peoples, one nation” living side-by-side with a lack of collective empathy on the Pakeha side.
You might find this link of interest – its just popped up on Scoop News
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC1306/S00002/journey-of-many-thousand-kilometres-puts-marae-on-the-map.htm
Excellent. Thank-you. Very interesting website.
Well I know the history, not so much the culture; it wouldn’t be wrong to say most Pakeha in New Zealand don’t know much about it. The wealthier the Pakeha the less likely they are going to know anything about Maori – it shouldn’t be like that, but I find a lot of upper class Pakeha view Maori as dole bludgers, criminals, and dead beats.
And that’s not so new. Some of my grandparents/great grandparents had a similar attitude as soon as they arrived here. It does need to be acknowledged, understood and in the cases of prejudice, challenged.
Very good points and whilst I’m not a ‘blame’ person the fault of all of this misunderstanding and lack of knowledge is the governments of yesterday and today. They had the obligation to create equality but chose a different route – that equality would have meant knowledge about tangata whenua and would have helped us all. It didn’t happen and isn’t happening now but if it did happen it would solve many of the issues we face in this country imo.
I couldn’t get the Herald up on my computer this morning – until just now, and I find there’s another story re Treaty claims in it. As below. All this helps aid our further understanding, Marty Mars, and I agree with you : if we all knew more of what happened in the past between Maori and Govt forces, I think we’d be a lot better off.
“Ngai Tuhoe will today sign their Treaty claim Deed of Settlement with the Crown. So far 62 settlements have been completed.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10888163
Good stuff JK
I’d just also say that imo MÄori would love people in this country to be interested in their beliefs, ways of thinking and history – absolutely love it. That, if visible, would do more for this country than anything else I can think of, because it would build community and understanding and break down the imposed barriers that are there. It would also address the crooked foundations of this country and set us up for a future we could move towards with pride and it would counter the capitalist, exploitative, neo-liberal agenda that continually tries to cut us all into ever smaller pieces.
Mainly a reply to Marty’s post but couldn’t find a reply button there. Earlier this year my whole workplace spent a day at the local Marae as part of our professional development program. It was a great day enjoyed by all. We learnt a lot about the history of the area, the culture of the local Maori and local myths/legends.
One of the best things about it is we now all feel comfortable going to that Marae if we need to, as we know and understand the customs.
[lprent: When it gets to level 10 (ie 9 levels of reply) the reply button turns off. Quote or link to the comment – check the FAQ. Or just find the last level 9 reply button above and use that. ]
Sounds like a great workplace cardassian and thanks for your insight
John Minto has put a great post up that talks about a visit he and some teachers and students into The Urewera – a great read.
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/06/05/patience-and-generosity-mark-tuhoe-settlement/
GiovaniTiso:
http://bat-bean-beam.blogspot.co.nz/2013/06/the-rich-mans-crumbs.html
So many outstanding writers on the left, I’d be forever gushing if I gave everyone their due praise. How can it be that virtually none of it ever reaches the mainstream?
Because the mainstream media tends to cater to people between the reading ages of 12-16, it is quite a shame really.
Because that which calls itself the mainstream is in fact a muddy backflow running alongside that bank over there.
“rich man’s crumbs”+ great! Yes just saying. Sanity always sounds sane.
Bradley Manning Show Trial begins in Maryland;
Radio NZ’s “U.S. correspondent” doesn’t want to know about it
Nine to Noon, Radio New Zealand National, Tuesday 4 June 2013
Today the obscene, Stalinist persecution of Bradley Manning comes to a head with the start of his show trial in Fort Meade, Maryland. So naturally, when Kathryn Ryan talks with “U.S. correspondent” Jack Hitt for ten minutes this morning, it will be all about the show trial. Right?
Wrong. Here are the highlightsâŠ.
KATHRYN RYAN: We go now to our United States correspondent, Jack Hitt. What’s happening, Jack?
JACK HITT: Are you a Game of Thrones fan, Kathryn?
KATHRYN RYAN: Why yes I am!
Hitt then spends a considerable amount of time filling her in on something that has annoyed the Throners in the United States recently. It’s an utterly dull, obscure and trivial thing to go on about, especially on the day that an American hero is being crucifiedâŠ.
JACK HITT: The Twittersphere’s on FIRE about this!
âŠ.[Awkward extended pause]âŠ.
RYAN: Right, we’ll move on to more pleasant topics, like Obama’s drones policy. The latest thing that made my hair stand on end was the President saying these drones could be used on AMERICAN SOIL!
Cue another long and not very enlightened monologue from Hitt. The problem for both Ryan and Hitt seems to be the killing of AMERICAN CITIZENS. The moral and legal outrage of using them against Pakistani and Afghani civilians doesn’t seem to worry either of them.
HITT: On the weekend there was a drone strike against a Taliban leader in Afghanistan.
RYAN: It was Eric Holder the Attorney General who said that drone strikes on American soil might be acceptable in a 9/11 type scenario.
HITT: Obama’s been incredibly opaque in his responses. I mean, they have killed AMERICAN CITIZENS!
âŠ.[Long, thoughtful pause to indicate moral seriousness]âŠ.
RYAN: Does anybody remember Watergate?
HITT: [with fervent sincerity] Yeah, actually, I think they doâŠ
Hitt wanders off on another long digression. Anything to avoid talking about the Bradley Manning show trial.
Ironically, just before these two airheads vapoured on about the heroism of the American press, the target of the Watergate burglaries, Daniel Ellsberg, was on television. He was protesting at the show-trial of Bradley Manning. I do not think that either Hitt or Ryan would have registered the irony.
RYAN: Interesting times! Jack, good to talk to you. We’ll catch up about China next time!
Er, having heard the conversation, can I just point out that Morrissey’s highlights bear little resemblance to what was actually said. eg, Ryan did not claim to be a fan of Game of Thrones, whatever that is. And there was no evidence that Jack Hitt was deliberately ignoring the Manning trial, anymore than he ignored the weather, South Sydney’s excellent NRL form or the colour of my socks.
Discussing the use of drones on US soil, however, was an excellent topic, because clearly, that’s a gamechanger precisely because it ties actual deaths in Iraq et al to potential deaths in the States. It brings the reality of drones to the American people. Shame you missed that point, Moz. Perhaps if you dialed back the faux outrage and actually listened to what was being said, you might find the radio quite enlightening.
Ryan did not claim to be a fan of Game of Thrones, whatever that is.
Okay, you’re right there, no doubt. I thought she said that. But I concede to your sharp ears, my friend. Right, that’s the trivial stuff out of the way.
And there was no evidence that Jack Hitt was deliberately ignoring the Manning trial, anymore than he ignored the weather…
Errrr, yes there WAS evidence that he deliberately ignored the Manning show trial. The evidence is that he did not talk about it. Similarly, supporters of the Soviet state deliberately ignored inconvenient and troubling aspects of the USSR in the 1930s.
Discussing the use of drones on US soil, however, was an excellent topic… Shame you missed that point, Moz.
I did not miss it. In fact, I cover their shallow discussion of it in my rush transcript.
Perhaps if you dialed back the faux outrage…
“Faux outrage”? You think I’m joking about the triviality, dishonesty and utter lack of responsible discussion on our public radio?
…and actually listened to what was being said, you might find the radio quite enlightening.
I listened to what was being said, all right. As so often is the case, it’s what they deliberately did not say that is interesting.
Even in the depths of your paranoia, a small part of you must understand that if people don’t talk about what you think they should talk about, it’s not actually evidence of a conspiracy. Still, it’s nice that Jenny has someone on her wavelength.
Even in the depths of your paranoia
Your urge to trivialize and your attempts to derail serious discussions are beneath contempt. What is paranoid about what I wrote? Do you even understand what the word means?
You think they just “forgot” to talk about it, do you?
Sorry, Bud, but I am not trivialising anything. The nature of a catch up with a correspondent in a show such as Nine to Noon by definition is lightweight. Its a skim through a few subjects in a few minutes.
If you want more depth, or other issues that are dear to your heart discussed, I suggest you apply for a job as Ryan’s producer*. Till then, you’ll just have to live with the fact the Game of Thorns is more important to most radio listeners than Manning, who isn’t actually being lynched, but, instead, is being tried for releasing materials he knew he wasn’t supposed to release.
*Snap (below)
Sorry, Bud, but I am not trivialising anything.
Yes, you are. Instead of entering into a serious and respectful dialogue, you abused me, and picked on the most trivial slip-up.
The nature of a catch up with a correspondent in a show such as Nine to Noon by definition is lightweight.
“By definition”. What tosh!
Its [sic] a skim through a few subjects in a few minutes.
It certainly is with Kathryn Ryan. You might accept such low standards; I and many other concerned listeners most certainly do not.
Till then, youâll just have to live with the fact the Game of Thorns is more important to most radio listeners than Manning,
You just said yourself that you had no idea what it was! Hardly anybody watches it, either here or in the U.S. But that doesn’t matter; what’s important is that it furnishes a chance to talk about anything except the vengeance being exacted by the state on a dissenter. THAT is boring—according to the likes of you.
….who isnât actually being lynched,
It is an attempted lynching, run by the U.S. government. But I guess that, with your track record, you feel honor-bound, if that’s the right expression, to endorse it.
Lordy, how isolated from the average Kiwi you sound! Like Ryan, I’ve heard of Game of Thorns because it’s omniprescent at the moment. It is by a factor of thousands more important to kiwis than Manning. And I know this without ever seeing a single ep. because it’s the show du jour, Moz. You really should get out more or possibly stay in more, it’s hard to tell.
And you completely misunderstand Ryan’s show. The clue is in the name, which references the timeslot. It usually starts with follow ups to one or two big news stories then moves on to lighter stuff. That’s a pretty normal formula for a mid morning show on a talk station anywhere on this blue planet.
“It is an attempted lynching, run by the U.S. government.”
They aren’t seeking the death penalty.
They arenât seeking the death penalty.
They have isolated, and physically and mentally abused and tortured him during his incarceration. They have tried to humiliate him, and have repeatedly stated, without evidence of course, that he is psychologically faltering. That was standard Soviet modus operandi for treating dissidents, of course.
Whether or not they do what the haters of liberty want them to do and kill him is really beside the point; by locking up this dangerous young truth-teller, they are effectively murdering dissent, and freedom, and human rights.
All of that is awful.
But it aint a lynching.
Indeed PB, governments don’t carry out lynchings. They carry out show trials, summary judgements and retributive sentences for political effect.
Ah yes, life in solitary with 1 hour per day exercise. Very gracious and humane.
The point, CV, is that this stuff is serious. The way we talk about it matters. Morissey’s overwrought nonsense hurts insofar that people who know a bit about it will be see how much he overcooks it and be turned off.
It’s like the truther garbage. It taints actual critical discussion by making it seem like fantasist nonsense.
Im with Morrissey, all those who uphold the rule of law and the power of the state against the individual and his/her conscience an go to hell!
There has been an argument made that Manning witnessed war crimes and therefore had a duty to report them. He reported to his superiors and was told to take things no further. This order was then illegal. Without recourse within the chain of command, he fulfilled his obligation by releasing the evidence to Wikileaks. On this basis, you could argue that he knew he was supposed to release the material.
By no means am I a lawyer, let alone a specialist in US military law or the Geneva Convention, but I think Manning did the right thing. I like to think I’d be courageous enough to do the same, and I applaud him.
“Errrr, yes there WAS evidence that he deliberately ignored the Manning show trial. The evidence is that he did not talk about it.”
That is no evidence of intent. There are reasons for not mentioning something other than deliberately suppressing it.
That is no evidence of intent. There are reasons for not mentioning something other than deliberately suppressing it.
Yes, there was a really important discussion about Game of Thrones that just had to be completed. Much more interesting than the public lynching of a dissident.
If only you were the show’s producer.
Save us.
Heaven forfend!
Save us.
Save us from thinking, you mean.
Not a single mention of the new Daft Punk album on that show either Moz, and that album features Nile Rodgers on guitar ffs!
How come you didn’t write about that? Are you part of the conspiracy of silence too?
Fucking Daft Punk. Frothy pop-synth rubbish
…and that album features Nile Rodgers on guitar ffs!
Thanks for the heads-up, felix. Nile Rodgers is God.
Eric Clapton is not, and never was.
And Ian Curtis died for our sins.
Perhaps from over-thinking in this case
Isn’t the Manning trial going to be very very short?
Q. Did you sign a piece of paper saying you would keep official secrets?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you send files to anyone?
A. Yes.
Right, your sentence is…
It is the sworn duty of every Colonial Officer to refuse illegal orders to commit or cover up war crimes against civilians, Jane.
Dead right. And if he’d only raised the issues through army channels or through his state or federal representatives he wouldn’t be going to jail for the rest of his life. Don’t forget, he leaked everything he had, not just the specifics of abuses. More fool him for trusting Saint Jules not to dob him in, too.
It was not WLO that dobbed him in, Manning states he did not use the TOR anonymizer when uploading the main file dump. I understand that he was identified through regular investigative methods.
You have to be kidding me. Do you believe that Manning would be off scot free if he did as you said? At least Manning is not as naive as you, given that he understands how the US military and government deliberately prosecuted this war from the start.
Also you’re complaining that Manning didn’t follow correct channels when multiple war crimes against civilians were being committed. Seriously. What are correct channels when war crimes against civilians are being committed? Writing a letter to your local congressman? Or to your CO?
What channels? Re-read my comment. Manning had choices, lawful and unlawful, and took the dumbest option. For all its faults, the US military does prosecute its own and does listen to whistleblowers. The heroism of those who spoke out about the My Lai massacre shows that to be the case.
For all its faults, the US military does prosecute its own and does listen to whistleblowers.
I cannot believe anyone can be so dishonest as to write something like that sentence. You really need to think about what you are saying, and perhaps more importantly, why you are saying it.
Careful TRP, you’re going to end up on “Liars of our Time”.
I’m pretty sure I was the first, Lanth! I have a vague memory of Moz calling me something like that (liar of the week?) a couple of years ago in a forerunner of the current selection of People Who Confuse Moz. I think P’s B also made the shortlist.
Iâm pretty sure I was the first, Lanth! I have a vague memory of Moz calling me something like that (liar of the week?) a couple of years ago in a forerunner of the current selection of People Who Confuse Moz. I think Pâs B also made the shortlist.
Actually, Te Reo, I don’t think you or Pascal’s Bookie did feature in “LIAR WATCH”, the 2012 feature that is the predecessor to today’s “Liars of Our Time” series. But several of our good buddies did….
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-07032012/#comment-444153
Careful TRP, youâre going to end up on âLiars of our Timeâ.
I do not think our friend Te Reo is a liar like, say, “Sir” Graham Henry or Henry Kissinger. Mere credulity and cowardice do not in themselves meet the criteria.
TRP
That example was 50 years ago.
That was before Obama decided to prosecute more whistleblowers during his term in office than every previous US president added together.
Get with the programme my man, times have changed, you can’t be this naive.
So the Apache crew who shot up the civilians, the children, and the Reuters camera man were prosecuted? I call bullshit on your claim.
Link please.
If Thompson hadn’t spoken out, there may well have been no prosecutions over My Lai. If he hadn’t landed his helicopter and stopped American troops by pointing machine guns at them, there would have been more murdered Vietnamese. There was still a movement to court martial him and he received numerous death threats.
And if heâd only raised the issues through army channels or through his state or federal representatives he wouldnât be going to jail for the rest of his life.
Enjoy your vacation at the dacha, Comrade! You have earned it with your steadfast loyalty.
If only those Jewish doctors had your ironclad devotion to the Holy State!
As I understand it, there’s a large number of charges. Manning has pleaded guilty to some and not guilty to others.The main focus of the defense will be on whether the leaks aided the enemy.
basically, they threw the book at him.
Quite possibly literally.
That’d be the problem with the education system – should’ve taken notes from Deep Throat: be paranoid, be anonymous, and STFU for decades afterwards.
Enlistment Oath.â Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:
“I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
If you have never read it, here is Manning’s [redacted] statement.
It explains why he has plead guilty to some charges but will not plead guilty to others.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_zC44SBaZPoQmJUYURBUnBycUk/edit?pli=1
Right, your sentence isâŠ
My sentence is: you must do some reading, you ignorant and heartless sow.
Charming.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/06/a_question-10.html
A shameful lack of ethics if its true…
I think we all realise Farrar has a shameful lack of ethics, WS, but thanks for bringing this to our attention anyway.
Not really, hes upfront about the work he does.
It’s quite possible to be upfront about being unethical, mate.
Oh Bomber… have to pay me to read his garbage.
I don’t see much of a business in paying him to write it AND paying you to read it…
I heard Pete George is paid by Big Pharma looking for alternatives to sleeping pills. Does that count?
Yawn. So what?
Rancorous Hypocrite Alert!
Gavin “Mogadon” Ellis will be on National Radio at 11:45 this morning!
Gavin “Mogadon” Ellis is not just the unbelievably dull media commentator that appears for five wasted minutes once a week on Nine to Noon. Media-watchers will be all too aware that Ellis used to be the inordinately dull editor of the New Zealand Herald, and as such he distinguished himself in 2002 not only by putting out a dull paper, but by a notorious display of craven cowardice. After the then Herald cartoonist Malcolm Evans dared to publish a series of cartoons criticizing the Israeli onslaught in the Occupied West Bank, Evans and Ellis became the target of the usual shrieking abuse from the local Israel lobby, led by the snarling Dame Lesley Max.
Far from standing by the right of his cartoonist to criticize the outlaw regime, Ellis started returning his cartoons, with hand-written threats that his job was in jeopardy if he continued the provocations. Evans refused to buckle under, and sure enough, Ellis fired him.
This morning, this notorious coward and toady will talk about the Al Nisbet cartoons. If he is to be consistent, he will take the side not of the victims but of the oppressor, and will back Nisbet to the hilt.
Of course, silly old Malcolm Evans should have drawn cartoons SUPPORTING the massacres in the Occupied Territories; that way he would have been in line with the Herald‘s editorial policy.
“Gavin âMogadonâ Ellis is not just the unbelievably dull media commentator….etc”
Agree.
Thank C I’m on a self-imposed 1 week ban.
Testing 1 2 tree
Open Mike today: the denizens seem to be squiggling, and humpfing, those cocktails and brewskis will wear off soon enough troops, bushy tails tomorrow.
âą cough up please Furball
âą morrissey might have a wee lie down
âą And B. Manning is going âdown, down, downâ to quote the Boss. He did great service to democracy at great personal cost unfortunately for naive wee him.
and that was mountain view today…
Mandawuy Yunupingu of Yolngu, Arnhem Land, has died.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ-hbpWlXNQ
Sad to hear this, and him having to go so “early”!
I used to enjoy, and still do at times, the music of Yothu Yindi.
“Australian of the Year 1992”, I understand, well deserved.
John Key’s “booming” New Zealand economy in “full revocery” from the Global Financial Crisis:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10888223
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property-report/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503327&objectid=10887130
Maybe good for property rich and owning National Party members and supporters, for speculators, certain developers and for those owning homes that are largely paid off.
Great stuff, but what about the rest of us?
So where are the houses for the low income earners, and when will they be ready to move in, while in many parts of Auckland the average price is around a million for a house or home now?
Bernard Hickey on the housing situation:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10887864
Seems NZ is in a catch 22 situation, unless urgent regulatory and interventionist measures will be taken.
But that is not what the Nats will do, when it will harm the wealth interests of property owners and investors, their own core voter base.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/45975/collateral-murder-youtube-video-u-s-apache-attack-at-heart-of-bradley-manning-trial
Lest We Forget
Why the U.S. regime is exacting vengeance on Bradley Manning
A Stalinist show trial began in Fort Meade, Maryland, today. The U.S. regime wants to make sure nobody else dares to make this kind of evidence available ever again….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0
http://www.policymic.com/articles/45975/collateral-murder-youtube-video-u-s-apache-attack-at-heart-of-bradley-manning-trial
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/06/labour_vows_to_terrorise.html
Please whatever Labour does do not, I repeat do not get rid of David Shearer
Hes Nationals best chance of getting re-elected
Winston Smith(erines): Cunning game, played by your mentor, first promote and flatter the man, now get out the hatchet and hack his legs off, right?
I have little time for Shearer as “leader”, consider him a suitable minister though, but we all know what David Farrar is all about.
He is a boot-licking advocate for John Key and that Natzi Party, right.
Yes, Shearer needs replacing, and one has to be suspicious, whether Labour’s leadership may indeed not have been “infiltrated” by government friendly saboteurs of sorts, for such press release to be allowed out.
I think Labour decided that any more leadership battles coming up to an election would divide the party, and create bad publicity. When the 2014 election is over, that would be the time to decide whether Shearer should stay or someone else should take his place. Right now however National is trying to anything to mud-sling the opposition, so keeping a united front is the best bet, no matter how much you may dislike certain politicians in Labour.
But when the opposition are slinging mud at themselves?
There IS a united front. People commenting on the left (blogs, twitter, polls, you name it) are united in seeing clearly that Shearer isn’t up to the job.
“Bad publicity”? A change of leader might be a week’s worth. Whereas no change = bad publicity every week.
I doubt it matters, as I have said before. This is MMP, not a Presidential system. Shearer doesn’t have to be a great leader at all, as long as people vote for this party, and the opposition parties. There are plenty of other nations where the leader is unloved and even hated, yet their party still win elections – because they aren’t voting for the leader, but the party.
That seemingly innocuous assumption didn’t work that well for Goff now, did it.
Wait till “the 2014 election is over” ?
Hey, give it another 6 months, just 6 more months.
A few more policies as gutsy as NZ Power and you won’t have to be calling for Labour Party supporters to fall into line.
Hah, CV – didn’t you see David Parker saying NO to anymore joint Labour-Green gutsy policies ?.
While I get your message and see your point, I just cannot bear seeing an opposition heading into an election campaign eyes wide shut, ending in a major disaster, which will give the Natzies a third term (possibly with Colin Craig’s Conservatives).
Having been through a term and a half now, and seeing how they get meaner by the week, it will drive me to insanity or serious self harm, to live through a third term of yet more nastiness. It is simply mentally, emotionally and physically not bearable, the mere thought of it.
Labour hoping to win by default is a bet like buying a lotto ticket, nothing else. Hence my desperation and dismay.
Jesus Labour, what’s wrong with you? Stupid stupid stupid, is he doing it on purpose?
mobilise and terrorise our political opponents. âŠ
âLet the games begin,â says David Shearer.
Oh dear, he’s been drinking Brut 33 again. Someone stop him before he starts guzzling Old Spice. Before you know it, he’ll grow a porn ‘stache and wear an a open-necked shirt and a medallion.
Is their campaign song going to be the theme from Shaft?
P.S. Whatever happened to “hands on” and “holding the government to account?” Are they still using those?
Would have been cool if he’d said “eat their fucking souls’ instead of ‘terrorise.
But he didn’t, and now he looks like a dick.
… and meant it.
Right, if Samuel Motherfucking Jackson (that’s his real middle name, not “Leroy”) forms a party, I’m voting for it.
Said it before, gotta say it again: if you want to know why Wall Street fucked the world economy, look at Key, but if you want to know why the UN is so ineffective, look at Shearer.
Might be time for (Sir) Robert Jones to come out of political retirement, at this rate.
Nice one, Rhino. Says a lot.
Good day for the opposition in the House. Key showed his nasty side (as usual), Norman skewered him, Winston dug some dirt, and Metiria forced Hekia into a vote-losing confession.
So it’s all good. Except – of course – David Shearer comes to the rescue! His talk of “terrorising” will piss off potential friends and make Labour look bad. No change there.
Please, please, Labour MPs … Make the stupidity stop.
Simon Bridges was floundering too.
Chester Borrows seemed particularly uncomfortable trying to answer on behalf of the absent Paula Bennett.
Even the Speaker (David Carter) seemed to be exasperated with Hekia Parata’s performance.
Serious question: Has there ever been a more unimpressive front bench in the history of New Zealand parliaments?
Lol
Um, the current *shadow* front bench?
Touché, mon ami!
Well, Labour’s back bench has some hope. Wonder why they’re on the back bench?
Because the pretenders are on the front bench?
Because they have some hope.
Daaawwww:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22751415
Once more Scandinavia shows the way.
What a great country – Finland really supporting its parents. Pity that NZ isn’t like that.
It would be great if parents could all state something like this about NZ support.
Good link, Nick.
The Finns showing, how to build foundations of a functioning society.
It takes an educated, engaged nation, with a sense of identity, pride, self respect, and respect for others, to ensure the continuation of such standards.
Sky City: Future Governments not bound by current deal – lawyer
Amazing stuff coming from lawyer Stephen Franks (from another political quarter, but acting in his professional capacity as advising lawyer), given to the Green Party, and revealed in the New Zealand Herald today:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10888335
So a future government can opt out of any deals signed by the present government with Sky City – in return for a close to 400 million “free” convention centre (for more pokies).
One concern is the foreign investors/owners of Sky City can possibly sue for loss of revenue they expected, if the deal is reneged on.
I don’t think it was ever said the govt can’t get out of it. They can – it will just cost.
Such compensation claims can surely be legally disputed as well, and any “claim” filed will not mean that it will be met and succeed.
It may in such a case likely end up before the courts, and that international courts, and one would have to see, how that would pan out.
Every day, every week, every month, every year, new legal precedents are set, so it could be very interesting what would come out of it.
If SkyCity are unreasonable, it’ll cost them their operating license. Remember who has the leverage in these “negotiations”.
Also perhaps, due to the processes followed, highly criticised by the Auditor General, a future government can perhaps use that as an argument, for the agreement to be made, to have been reached illegally (breach of natural justice in deciding on who gets the deal).
I’d appreciate some senior legal expert, perhaps Miss Chen, to give an opinion on this.
FYI………….
Must be doing something right, if Cameron Slater (Whaleoil) and Martyn (Bomber) Bradbury – have BOTH banned me from making comments on their blogs?
Both of them believe in ‘freedom of expression’ – but not on their blogs?
How sad.
Too bad.
Carry on ……………
FYI
Martyn Bradbury BANNED me from posting comments on ‘the Daily Blog’ – because he was totally opposed to my standing for the Auckland mayoralty, against John Minto.
Although I had made public my intention to stand as a 2013 Auckland Mayoralty candidate, well before John asked Mana to endorse his standing.
Although I stood as an Auckland Mayoral candidate in 2010.
For the public record, I do think it’s a great idea for John Minto to stand as an Auckland Mayoral candidate, for the Mana Party.
It’s a very effective way to help get a higher political profile for both Mana as a political party, and John Minto as a candidate before the 2014 General Election.
As the only candidate campaigning on an ACTION PLAN against ‘white collar’ crime, corruption and ‘corporate welfare’ – I look forward to the upcoming Mayoral debates!
Cheers!
‘Her Warship’ đ
Penny Bright
INDEPENDENT
‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation’ campaigner
2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate
http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz
“Must be doing something right, if Cameron Slater (Whaleoil) and Martyn (Bomber) Bradbury â have BOTH banned me from making comments on their blogs?”
Or something wrong. Or something annoying. Or none of the above. There’s no logic that suggests it means anything at all actually, people get banned from blogs all the time for all sorts of reasons so it could well be a coincidence.
Did either of them say why they banned you? Could be clues there.
Hasn’t Penny been banned from here in the past? Too much dry copypasta, not enough saucy comments?
[lprent: Nope. After she stopped doing the really long ones, got it more into her own words, reduced her CAPITAL and bold excretions, reduced our exposure to defamation suits, and started using OpenMike – well I haven’t really had anything to do with her comments apart from looking at them for some ideas about what was going on. No bans for a long time and the last time I had to do something was [deleted] in a comment that was defamatory in the absence of strong backing material (and if she had that then it would have been better to take it to the police for malfeasance) ]
I heard Penny interviewed on the radio yesterday. She was extremely articulate and interesting.
But she could work on her written presentation a bit, I guess.
She spoke to Sean Plunket on Radio Live late this morning, and in the end was cut off. But he gave her a bit of a go. Perhaps it took his nerve centres to connect for a while, until he realised, who “Penny” was, defending Russell Norman and the Greens, and then raising her corruption in NZ concerns.
Lanthanide, what is with the snivelling little cissy attitudes here…Thats rhetorical, in case you don’t get it!
What were you, hoping to achieve by making that comment?
You were probably banned Penny as your bright and sunny personality combined with succinct and relevant posts were threatening to outshine the blog hosts – so of course you needed to be given the short shift.
Good to see Tracy Martin siding with the human resistance in the War Against The Machines.
The only way to beat the Machine intelligence is to be fully human.
Finally. It Speaks:
Surprisingly Shearer’s tough talking was aimed at the candidates standing in the Ikaroa-Rawhiti By-election. So it appears that Shearer’s “opponents” who he intends to “terrorise” don’t include the National Party, who are not standing. If only David could reserve such tough talking for the National Party. Shearer should take a leaf out of Russel Norman’s book, and instead of largely letting them off the hook with his meek stumbling bumbling performance to date, get stuck into the Nats. with as much ferocity.
Instead with intemperate language that Parekura Horomia would have been appalled at, Shearer with all the finesse of a blundering rhino charges at Labour’s potential allies.
More likely than not, Shearer’s stepping in with this sectarian diatribe will cost the Labour candidate votes.
P.S.
National’s glaring failings, so obvious that a three year old could spot them, make an easy target. Russel Norman skewered them with ease. Why can’t Shearer do the same? Instead it seems his real invective is reserved for Labour’s erstwhile future allies.
And the Green Party want to go into coalition and are prepared to bend over backwards to accommodate themselves to Shearer’s Labour Party in exchange for cabinet positions?
They must be mad.
The Green Party are prepared to give up their principles for what? To be outvoted on every single cabinet decision, yet be locked into supporting them, through “collective cabinet responsibility”?
david shearer is by far the biggest liability the left has to gain power and I don’t mean fucken labour btw – to say what he said, today of all days – I am so over that wanker. He is a fucken right wing plant, a judas goat and a semi-articulate bastard.
I can understand someone thinking that Shearer is a right wing plant, since the only people he actually picks fights with are on the left – first the Labour Party members, and now he’s “terrorising” his supposed allies. Allies, that is, unless he thinks it’s a better idea to leave them in the lurch and try to form a grand coalition with National. The people who vote for John Key don’t care if he tells lies because they believe he is lying on their behalf. David Shearer seems hard put to make an utterance, whether true, false or indecipherable, on behalf of Labour voters.
I think he’s a right wing plant.
Matthew Hooton was involved in his selection. At a BBQ just after the 2011 election.
“involved in his selection” is a stretch. I’ve explained what happened many times before: http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-29052013/#comment-640274
It’s not a stretch at all.
A stretch would be to say that you were responsible for selecting him, or that you were tasked with selecting him, or perhaps that your role was crucial to his selection.
But “involved” is precisely what you were, and you’ve never made any secret of it.
It suited you that he was selected, as it suited you to feign support and praise for him, just as it now suits you to attack him.
Just as everyone said you would all along.
IMHO: Really the wrong language for that Ikaroa-Rawhiti electorate. I suspect there will be some backlash from that tomorrow..
But hey, there were mass mail-outs from those bastions of Maoridom, the Labour leader’s office and the NZLP HQ. They used them to introduce their candidate – they didn’t let her introduce herself despite what looks like an interesting history. The mailout that I looked at showed no real appreciation of the importance of connections, family, or past history amongst Maori which are kind of important to Maori candidates in Maori seats. Apparently it was the better of the two…
I’m not exactly a major student of Maori culture in the East Coast, but it does make it feel a teensy bit patronising… I bet that neither the Maori party or Mana or even the Greens would do that.
I’ll have a look at seeing if we can get a couple of posts from people who know about that electorate.
Like
Question
In the shortness of a persons lifetime how is that the failings of political history repeat themselves to the extent that they have reached today
Poverty of the masses, denial of educational opportunity,resurgence of the lack of freedoms that our forebears left europe because of,the unbelievable denial of democratic principles in the governance of this country not seen since Muldoon and Holland were in power .
This is the re establishment by party politics of democracy being nothing but a tool for the capitalist doctrine to slash and burn without any control by true majority of the nation
These capitalist have no safeguards to cleanup the mess their policies of money at whatever the cost will leave us to pay for .The’re just like any other international corporation using the country for their 2%ers benefit, paying media politics and lying thru their advertising.
The answers simple we are a country of 4 million that needs to be very careful about how it looks after itself and this govt has lost our way because they are there because of us so Mr Key do the hard yards if you are a Kiwi
AND PULL YOUR BLOODY HEAD IN You….