Open Mike 05/08/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 5th, 2018 - 170 comments
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Step up to the mike …

170 comments on “Open Mike 05/08/2018”

  1. adam 1

    The rally calling on the government to impose a moratorium on arrests over medical cannabis was held yesterday.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/08/medicinal-cannabis-supporters-call-for-moratorium-on-arrests.html

    Got a bit of coverage before the event, but not a lot after becasue the authoritarian types were playing silly buggers in Aotea square. Which was doubly disappoint as a lot of disabled people did not attend the moratorium rally as attended, becasue they did not want to be caught amongst it.

    Nice music, good crowd and really good speeches.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1

      Ffs if the law was applied equally then every hospice would have half their patients arrested.

      Time for some common sense cops.

      • dukeofurl 1.1.1

        really ? Are you saying hospices are allowing patients to use stuff that hasnt been clinically approved as a medication ?

        • gsays 1.1.1.1

          Well.. As you can not overdose on it, as adults they are past the teen psychosis potential… why not?

          If it provides relief from pain, improves appetite, generates mental well being and minimizes spasms it’s none of the state’s business.
          Nor anyone else’s.

          While clinically proven is needed in lots of highly toxic ‘medicines’ leave the weed out of this.
          Clinically proven is merely a gate to Big Pharma profit paddock.
          Free the marijuana.

          • Dukeofurl 1.1.1.1.1

            I thought a hospice wasn’t like a byo cafe, the patients are under medical supervision. The clinical staff could be struck off for playing a ‘tinnie house’.
            Maybe it’s not like what I would expect, but I guess they are used to crackpots who have weird ideas about medication and pain relief and think they know best

    • Chris T 1.2

      How many arrests have there been for medicinal use of weed again?

      • adam 1.2.1

        I’d say one is to many – you?

        Sorry only have anecdotal numbers of about 50 people in the last few months.

        • Chris T 1.2.1.1

          If there were any where near 50 in the last month there would be an uproar bigger than the Canadians

          Just linking to one will do

          • adam 1.2.1.1.1

            Really quite a dishonest way to make an argument chris t. When did I say last month? Deliberate misrepresentation by you for what purpose can I ask?

            • Chris T 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Fair point. I apologise

              If there were 50 in the last few months there would be an uproar bigger than the Canadians

              If there were 50 in the last few years there would be an uproar

              • adam

                I can personally think of three cannabis fairies being arrested in the last couple of months. Not so much as a whimper from the general populous – so I’m not sure what your making the assumption on.

                Also the select committee breached privacy on over 100 people in the recent hearings, and not a whimper from the general populous.

                So again, not sure why you think people actually give two rats?

                • Chris T

                  That is cool. I can see this is possible, but you said 50 and my question was users

                  • adam

                    The rally was a call for moratorium on arrests over medical cannabis, which not only included users, but people supply cannabis based products to people. I included both in my figure, which is no way where precise, that is why I said anecdotal – meaning an unreliable figure.

                    • Chris T

                      Fair call

                      Personally prefer a bit more control over who is supplying it and what they are actually supplying in the long run (what it might be laced with etc….and I doubt all the people calling themselves fairies are in it purely out of their compassion, and not just using this as an alibi for dealing), but tend to agree the heavy hand side of things should be toned down till it is sorted.

                      Just wish

                      a) The Greens had written a bill actually thinking of this. And a plan of where your average sufferer can actually obtain it would have been helpful

                      b) The Nats didn’t play politics and stall the whole thing to include these issues by coming up with another bill which probably won’t picked unless Labour fast track it. Which they won’t because again they will play politics and refuse to as for some stupid reason they will see it as backing down (Like who gives a shit…… I think their motto was “Let’s do this” from memory)

                      Good luck any way

                • Dukeofurl

                  Cannabis faries? You are just making it up. Which courts, what charges? What was the result…. Or was it something you haven’t heard directly but talking about could be/might be

                  • adam

                    Here is the term you’re probably more familiar with ‘green fairies” the people who supply medicinal cannabis. – hence “cannabis fairies”.

                    What are the charges could they have? Do you seriously not know?

              • reason

                When they keep arresting, harassing, entrapping and intimidating Green Cross spokespeople and leaders …..

                ……. When they keep arresting, harassing, entrapping and intimidating ” cannabis fairies ” … or otherwise bring the hammer down on others who at no profit get Cannabis and THC / CBD products … to the ill / sick people who benefit from them …

                Then the numbers persecuted would number in the thousands and thousands over the years.

                In reality Cannabis prohibition is a nasty cult … as its based on lies …. and its the closest thing we have to overt fascism in this country.

                The big sick lie upon which the cult of Cannabis prohibition is based …. Is the legal / cult definition of “drug abuse” … Which has nothing to do with the scientific or medical definition of drug abuse ….

                Medically speaking drug abuse is the continual use of a drug when it is harming your health or life…..

                Our law / cult definition of “drug abuse”… is any use of a drug like Cannabis …. under any circumstances.

                What is more …. breaking this cult law and bullshit definition of drug abuse ….. is deemed so serious it is a criminal offence…. with special quasi fascist laws……. Eg , when a cop claims to smell Cannabis he can evoke “Emergency drug laws” ..

                … These “Emergency drug laws” … evoked from the “emergency” of someone smoking or burning Cannabis allow the police to operate under a form of ‘martial law’ … Allowing them to do things like kick in your house door and conduct warrant-less searches.

                So from the bullshit cult foundation of “drug abuse” …. We have bullshit “Emergency” cannabis smell / smoke martial laws …. where our normal rights and protections are trashed.

                Drug squads get money, toys … and fast track Clint Rickards / Mike Sabin promotions and careers.

                Child abuse units get starved of funds ……… and cases / victims ignored for years and years.

                Finally, for an example of ‘cult speak … “Drugs and Alcohol” is a retarded political statement ….

                …. Allowing the National party to pretend to be anti-drug. ……………. When they are so pro the drug ethanol / alcohol …. that they couldn’t really give a stuff about the victims … of this $$75 Million per week drug industryin NZ .

                The correct term is either ‘Alcohol and Other drugs’ ‘ …. Or just ‘Drugs’ ….

                When even the wet brain alcohol retarded sots recognize Ethanol as a drug …. the work of National and other prohibitionist cult members can be seen for the nasty prejudiced bullshit it is.

  2. AsleepWhileWalking 2

    Law Society show themselves to be the bullshitters we suspected they are re:sexual abuse cover up

    #metoo

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/106008654/a-young-law-graduate-was-the-target-of-one-of-nzs-most-sweeping-gagging-orders

  3. AsleepWhileWalking 3

    Waaaat?

    Woman in China transforms herself into a totally unrecognisable person using makeup and “sculpting” prosthetics. So much for facial ID.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12101210

  4. corodale 4

    Wander how often the Israeli Embassy communicates with NZ govt. Or perhaps NZ’s military is one of the more significant points of interaction. I’m assuming they write the manual on how to use the most of our stuff.

    Anywhichway, guess their govt folk would look at us like creatures-from-outer-space, when we say, ‘we have a mostly non-religious govt’.

    Wander if a fair recommendation would be the German govt system, as an improvement for Israel, with religion ruling hospitals, kindergartens (and secret intelligence 😉 Religion ruling a govt is a trick that should be used reservedly. So as not to push the Ottoman to do similar. That MMP system is similar enough for NZer’s to present will some insight. And German govt is still kind on Israel, so they can grasp it, lots o visits, etc…

    Draw them in with debate on Charter Schools, or better? On the hope of peace, and a shot at some of those 2degree targets you folk like talking about?

  5. marty mars 5

    t.rump – sicko

    “The Trump administration has rescinded an Obama-era ban on the use of pesticides linked to declining bee populations and the cultivation of genetically modified crops in dozens of national wildlife refuges where farming is permitted.

    Environmentalists, who had sued to bring about the two-year-old ban, said on Friday that lifting the restriction poses a grave threat to pollinating insects and other sensitive creatures relying on toxic-free habitats afforded by wildlife refuges.

    “Industrial agriculture has no place on refuges dedicated to wildlife conservation and protection of some of the most vital and vulnerable species,” said Jenny Keating, federal lands policy analyst for the group Defenders of Wildlife.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/04/trump-administration-lifts-ban-on-pesticides-linked-to-declining-bee-numbers

    yep the bees are fake news – the pink puke loves the bees and the bees love him – right up till they all died.

    • mauī 5.1

      A pity Obama didn’t appear to do much on deadly pesticide use in US agriculture or target the multi-national producers of them.

      • marty mars 5.1.1

        Ffs why can’t you argue with integrity? Read the article again and notice the first line of the bit i quoted.

        • mauī 5.1.1.1

          I am arguing with integrity. The video is putting in context the use of bee killing pesticides in the US.

          What is the bigger issue here? That these pesticides are used throughout US agriculture and I assume most of the country, with little controls. Or that a new administration has expanded their use into new wildlife areas. The video also implies that these pesticides would be contaminating wildlife areas anyway.

      • North 5.1.2

        For those with a sneaking regard for Trump…..”whatabout whatabout whatabout (insert name of choice)”.

      • Andre 5.1.3

        Fuck me you’re a sad sack of shit, maui.

        No, Obama wasn’t able to fix all the problems in the US regulatory regime around harmful substances. Arguably that’s way too big a problem to ever get dealt with in a single step, or even just a few steps.

        But he did put into law a huge step forward whereby anyone that wants to introduce some new substance has to show it’s safe, rather than being allowed to introduce anything they want and maybe, sometime later, be forced to withdraw it if someone else shows it’s unsafe. That’s a big improvement.

        Whereas the waddling spray-tan warning label is trying his hardest to go full speed in a backwards direction with actions like this one or going backwards on emissions controls for vehicles.

        http://time.com/4378712/tsca-obama-toxic-chemicals/

        • adam 5.1.3.1

          So you start with a personal attack andre, all class that.

          Some people don’t think incrementalism works, exactly because the actions of trump. As you argument proves.

          What is it and this site, with the whole Bush jr. approach to politics now the new normal. “If your not for, us you’re against us” was a truly silly concept when Bush jr said it, it looks even more desperate and silly now.

  6. Pat 6

    “Freshwater fish are suffocating in rivers across Europe during the heatwave.”

    http://www.euronews.com/2018/08/02/germany-fish-are-dying-in-rivers-from-heatwave

    The pattern caused by climate change also became evident in the model runs around 2030, adding confidence to the conclusion that widespread deoxygenation due to climate change will become detectable around that time.

    The maps could also be useful resources for deciding where to place instruments to monitor ocean oxygen levels in the future to get the best picture of climate change impacts. Currently ocean oxygen measurements are relatively sparse.

    “We need comprehensive and sustained observations of what’s going on in the ocean to compare with what we’re learning from our models and to understand the full impact of a changing climate,” Long said.

    https://phys.org/news/2016-04-widespread-loss-ocean-oxygen-2030s.html

    • cleangreen 6.1

      Yes Pat; How true this is;

      Now studies are confiming that the global oxygen ambient sea levels have been declining since the beginning of the “industrial era” driven by high emissionmns of greenhouse gasses and petroleum distilates and plastic use.

      quote; “Atmospheric Oxygen Levels Are Dropping Faster Than Atmospheric Carbon Levels Are Rising”

      share this:
      Facebook1K+TwitterGoogleTumblrPinterest15RedditPocket
      Posted By: Good German JAN 27, 2013

      https://i1.wp.com/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Earth6391.jpg/128px-Earth6391.jpg?resize=128%2C96

      Forget rising temperatures and bigger storms, this is the big problem that neither side of the mainstream debate over environmental destruction is talking about. Peter Tatchell reported for the Guardian back in 2008:

      We are slowing killling our own habitat where it willl eventually not sustain human, aquatic or animal life.

      Why did they think they could cheat “mother nature”?

      http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6371/eaam7240.full

      Declining oxygen in the global ocean and coastal waters
      Denise Breitburg1,*, Lisa A. Levin2, Andreas Oschlies3, Marilaure Grégoire4, Francisco P. Chavez5, Daniel J. Conley6, Véronique Garçon7, Denis Gilbert8, Dimitri Gutiérrez9,10, Kirsten Isensee11, Gil S. Jacinto12, Karin E. Limburg13, Ivonne Montes14, S. W. A. Naqvi15,†, Grant C. Pitcher16,17, Nancy N. Rabalais18, Michael R. Roman19, Kenneth A. Rose19, Brad A. Seibel20, Maciej Telszewski21, Moriaki Yasuhara22, Jing Zhang23
      See all authors and affiliations

      Science 05 Jan 2018:
      Vol. 359, Issue 6371, eaam7240
      DOI: 10.1126/science.aam7240

    • Bill 6.2

      Whimsical thought for the day…

      ….since we need a fair amount of oxygen for our brains to work well, and since carbon is nicking off with atmospheric oxygen (atmospheric levels of O is surely dropping in line with increases of CO2)….does that mean that as time progresses we become even more thick and unable to deal with what our stupidity has already stacked up for us?

        • Dukeofurl 6.2.1.1

          Check the numbers
          400 Parts per million vs 210,000 ppm for O2

          Even breathing leaves behind 160,000 ppm oxygen when you exhale
          Forget completely about CO2 robbing the oxygen

      • Pat 6.2.2

        lol…quite likely. let us also hope increased CO2 levels also have a sedative effect.

      • mac1 6.2.3

        My whimsical brain tells me that I’m glad that burnt carbon picks up two atoms of oxygen, and not just one…………. or we’d be inhaling a planetarian exhaust pipe.

        • Dukeofurl 6.2.3.1

          Can’t happen even if it had 4 oxygen atoms. CO2 is essential for plant life so isn’t an ‘exhaust’

          • Dukeofurl 6.2.3.1.1

            The air you breath out out has 10x the CO2 of what you breath in.
            So your normal air is never going to be as much ‘exhast’ of what you breathe out

            I hope that clears up a few misconceptions

  7. greywarshark 7

    Liked the talk about ‘constructive journalism’ on Media WatchRadionz this morning with stuff editor I think. Very hopeful and forward looking and wide thinking outside the envelope (to use a cliche). Nicola Brennan-Tupura from stuff?

    One fact that arose – pork being treated with antibiotics presumably as prophylactics, a bad animal husbandry? practice, now being given probiotics with good outcomes. Example of constructive journalism, reporting the story and good outcomes that folowed on as well – full story to the public not concentrating on depressing negatives alone.

  8. Jenny 8

    Fail:

    Tim Groser being recalled

    “Useless as…, [insert your comparison here]

    The Glenbrook Steel Mill in Franklin and fully owned subsidiary Pacific Steel in Otahuhu are major employers in South Auckland.

    The closure of these two major employers would be devastating for the South Auckland economy.

    Critically, Groser failed to win New Zealand (once described as a “very, very, very good friend” of the US) an exemption from harsh new steel tariffs. That is threatening to cripple NZ’s steel industry…..

    …..Earlier this year, New Zealand was not in the list of countries exempt from paying a tariff on steel, but Australia was – one reason cited as contributing to Groser’s early return home….

    Groser, a former trade minister criticised for his enjoyment of the good life at public expense, took up the Washington posting in 2016.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/105999533/nz-ambassador-to-trumps-washington-recalled

    • Jenny 8.1

      On his return, no doubt Tim Groser will be heading the list of National Party acolytes put forward for a knighthood.

      For services to yourself* Arise Sir Timothy

      “Just call me Tim.”

      *(and for services to wealthy New Zealanders)

      Donald Trump recently signed the KIWI Act into law, giving New Zealanders access to E1 and E2 visas, the latter which allows an individual to enter and work inside of the US based on an investment.

      US Ambassador to New Zealand Scott Brown said Mr Trump “signed it right away”.

      As he would

      For the international elite some immigrants are obviously more worthy than others.

      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/08/tim-groser-getting-sacked-as-ambassador-to-the-us-report.html

      • cleangreen 8.1.1

        100% Jenny perfectly said.

        “Groser is goose”

        You gave me a well needed smile on my face. Thanks flor that.

    • Cinny 8.2

      Good freaking job. He’s always come across to me as a functioning alcoholic, cashing up on the free booze cabinet in the ‘board room’.

      Do it with someone elses money Grosser, like your own, tax payers shouldn’t be used to fund an elderly politicians bad habits.

    • Sounds like a fail by Vance.

      NZ Herald: NZ’s Ambassador to US Tim Groser will not seek extension to term of appointment

      New Zealand’s Ambassador to the United States Tim Groser himself asked to leave the position at the end of his three-year term, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has confirmed.

      “Any suggestion he has been recalled by the minister or ministry is baseless,” Peters said in a statement.

      However, Peters said that was not correct.

      “The New Zealand Ambassador to the United States, Hon Tim Groser, is leaving his position later this year at the expiry of his three-year term.

      “He was appointed by the previous government and his contract was only ever for three years.

      “Mr Groser himself asked to finish at the conclusion of his three-year term and did not seek any extension.”

      Trade Minister David Parker also rubbished suggestions the failure to gain an exemption from tariffs was behind the end of Groser’s term.

      “It’s not because of under-performance on trade. I can confirm that’s not the case because I’d know about that because I’m Trade Minister.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12101605

    • Philj 8.4

      The ‘journalist’ appears to have been misinformed about the reasons for the Ambassadors return. Someone is making stuff up. Bau?

  9. Don’t watch this GIF. No, really. Don’t.

    https://twitter.com/scottEweinberg/status/1025754277371883521

    And absolutely don’t read the wider report, with bonus drily ironic Seattle PD commentary:

    https://humanpersonface.tumblr.com/post/176597419195/null-al-ghul-bellygangstaboo-antifa-cleaning

  10. joe90 10

    We are so fucked.

    If you regularly watch TV, you’ve probably seen a cartoon bear pitching you toilet paper, a gecko with a British accent selling you auto insurance and a bunny in sunglasses promoting batteries.

    This has always struck me as a bit odd. Sure, it makes sense to use cartoon characters to sell products to kids – a phenomenon that’s been well-documented.

    But why are advertisers using the same techniques on adults?

    To me, it’s just one symptom of a broader trend of infantilization in Western culture. It began before the advent of smartphones and social media. But, as I argue in my book “The Terminal Self,” our everyday interactions with these computer technologies have accelerated and normalized our culture’s infantile tendencies.

    […]

    High-tech pacifiers

    While scholars such as James Côté and Gary Cross remind us that infantilizing trends began well before our current moment, I believe our daily interactions with smartphones and social media are so pleasurable precisely because they normalize and gratify infantile dispositions.

    They endorse self-centeredness and inflated exhibitionism. They promote an orientation towards the present, rewarding impulsivity and celebrating constant and instant gratification.

    They flatter our needs for visibility and provide us with 24/7 personalized attention, while eroding our ability to empathize with others.

    https://theconversation.com/the-infantilization-of-western-culture-99556

    • cleangreen 10.1

      Joe, thanks for that contrabution as itis so right that we are becomming part of the digital unhuman world of self expression without a human element now.

      We are deviod of personal engagement as we nhad with a meeting or phone call..

      • greywarshark 10.1.1

        joe90
        That is interesting and I might put an emoji up if I could be bothered. But I have more important things to do at present.

    • One Two 10.2

      Yes Joe, the spells were cast generations ago…

      Insidious, covert and undetectable to those who are entranced…

    • Gabby 10.3

      That pretty much explains Jesse Mulligan..

  11. joe90 11

    Was going to happen.

    Venezuela leader 'survives drone attack' https://t.co/77v44i4Yc5— BBC News (UK) (@BBCNews) August 4, 2018

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45073385?

    #Ahora la cadena nacional del presidente Nicolás Maduro fue interrumpida. El audio del mandatario fue cortado y luego se observó a militares corriendo de forma desordenada. pic.twitter.com/S14NDGDeXi— Efecto Cocuyo (@EfectoCocuyo) August 4, 2018

    https://twitter.com/EfectoCocuyo/status/1025864784137334784

  12. ianmac 12

    This business about low business Confidence is puzzling. Is it real and does it matter?
    Brian Easton has a pretty good crack at it.

    When I was closely associated with a business opinion survey many years ago, we found that the responses about the state of the economy were virtually valueless. If you asked a business whether they were taking on labour, selling more or investing more, their predictions in one survey correlated with what they say happened in the next. But we could never find any systematic relationship between their opinions and economic activity as a whole. I see that Bill Rosenberg of the NZCTU came to a similar conclusion using more recent data.

    The reason for this disjuncture is that businessmen and women know a lot about what is going on in their businesses, but very little about what is going on in the whole economy….

    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/%E2%80%98business-opinion%E2%80%99-is-falling-does-it-matter

    • Philj 12.1

      Cameron Bagrie said on RNZ morning report that he didn’t pay much attention to business confidence surveys as there are better measures available! I thought he had been peddling these surveys for years as Chief Economist for ANZ. LOL

  13. Herodotus 13

    On news hub yesterday we were told by our Minister that the teachers demands are out of kilter
    How is the current Labour govt any different to the previous Nats ?
    Legimite converns BUT no money
    not as I see it – teachers are not high on the Govts priorities as can be seen by where the money has been spent. So another 3 years of wages being below CPI, so a pay cut in real terms just like the last 9 years, yet the average pay increase over the Same period for all full time earners was over 25%
    If you vote for us next time(read 3 years ), perhaps there will could be a better offer, BUT no promises

    • Incognito 13.2

      Is it just (!) about (the) money?

      The strike was less about money and more about the need for more teachers, and smaller classes, Vercoe said.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/105979996/teacher-strike-about-the-kids-as-parents-lobbied-at-school-gates

      • Herodotus 13.2.1

        As someone who has friends and family in the teaching industry, money does play a part. Why else are many teachers migrating out of Auckland, because they cannot afford to live in the city. Resulting in many schools with a shortage of teachers ??

        • Incognito 13.2.1.1

          Sure, money does play a part, it always does, doesn’t it?

          The ridiculous house prices in Auckland have put these out of reach for many, not just teachers. They’ll need to be paid a hell of a lot more to balance the rise in property prices. In any case, this is not an Auckland issue; the strike is nation-wide.

          My point is that the reporting has been selective and shallow, as usual, which only serves to polarise.

        • Herodotus 13.2.1.2

          Understand that.
          Unfortunately this is fast becoming a situation whereby it is a win/loss situation
          The govt is positioning itself with the”we have no more $$” to increase our offer. Because there are a few other claims e.g. NZPPTA to follow.So if one gets a major increase the flow on effect of those following wanting to have their similar demands met.
          Would not like to be the union that accepts a “lower” rate, then to see other industries achieve a greater increase for their workers.
          And when reviewing the Newshub interview our minister is down playing the NZEI demands.

  14. veutoviper 16

    Like day follows night ….

    About half an hour ago, Stefan Molyneux put up a new youtube video (13+ mins) – – – sob, sob, its brutal out here,
    – hysteria from the media, designed to get the demonic mob to attack us
    – we are not free to move anywhere without large bodyguards to protect us from the feral mob
    – we lost a venue and hundreds and hundreds of people have lost out on the chance to see us
    – bayonets are going to be pointed and we are here to prevent this and need to prevent this
    – PM and govt have come out against us … (she was head of socialist youth …)
    – Lauren and I get our courage from you
    – But we need you – you are the movement
    – we cannot do it without your help – or rather your money … sob sob

    … donate now to freedomradio – paypal, visa or credit cards

    What a performance …!!! Whaleoil take note. ROFL

    • Incognito 16.1

      Sorry, I can’t be bothered spending 13+ mins of my life on watching this but I’d be more interested in the number of Views and Likes and whether the Comment section has been enabled. After all, it’s clicks that they’re after.

      • Carolyn_Nth 16.1.1

        I didn’t watch the vid, but scrolled through the comments under it.

        Man, they sure is an angry mob – all about “the feral left” … as written by the feral right.

        SM certainly knows how to whip up their feralness.

        Let’s hope that means he and his ilk stay away from this country in the future.
        Wouldn’t matter how critics responded to them, they’d play it through their propaganda machine one way or another.

      • mac1 16.1.2

        Hopefully 14,219 clicks- the distance between Auckland and Ottawa, Canada………

        • marty mars 16.1.2.1

          Yes and the poor suffering first nation people’s having these low bastards living and hating near them.

      • veutoviper 16.1.3

        Fair enough, that is why I did a summary. I only know about it as I had an alert on his Twitter account as I was wondering whether they were still in NZ – ie I don’t know whether the TVNZ1 Sunday programme tonight at 7.30pm is live or prerecorded.

        Anyway, this new Youtube video has only been up for about one hour and as of now (2.34pm) : 19,402 views, 2784 thumbs up and 51 thumbs down, and 802 comments.

        Update at 2.44pm 22,452, 3182 up, 62 down and 912 comments.

        His Tweet put up advertising the video also logged an hour ago has had 33 replies, 192 likes, and 97 retweets.

        • Incognito 16.1.3.1

          Thanks. By posting the link you may have, inadvertently, contributed to those stats 😉

          I don’t think I’ll watch TVNZ1 Sunday either; I don’t watch TV at all and it seems a shame to break a good habit for no compelling reason. For some reason I’ve come to prefer the written word but like watching movies on mute …

          • veutoviper 16.1.3.1.1

            Sure, by posting the link I may have contributed to those stats but I really don’t think it will be many. In fact I think it is more important that people actually see for themselves how he has spun what happened here in NZ, what he is claiming re NZ, and his true nature and con-artistry.

            I am going to watch tonight online and I am a very irregular viewer of TV programmes. I cannot remember how many years it is since I actually turned a real TV on! Marama Davidson is also on the programme and two other people (one a female Muslim refugee whose name I cannot remember and the other a man whose name ditto).

            Actually last night in yet another bout of insomnia I spent some time checking out the background of some of the S & M hangers-on on this trip which was eye opening. I might do a little summary later tonight if I have time.

        • Cinny 16.1.3.2

          I’m so sure they run many of fake accounts to generate the likes and comments. As for the views, one just needs to hit refresh…. if many fake accounts are doing such it’s an easy way to drive up viewing numbers, ask little max key, rofl!

          Most of the youtube comments were calling for violence, they seem to think they are at war, like they are calling to arms etc. Apparently supporters are done talking because no one is listening, so feel violence and civil war is their available option. It’s nuts. But I guess many have no idea, just his words, so they swallow it up hook line and sinker.

          Donate now, donate generously, as their NZ holiday has run into a funding issue. Only reason I can think of for such a video.

    • Bill 16.2

      To bring reason, evidence and arguments to essential cultural and political issues… says the guy who would have us regard IQ tests as being scientifically valid and not at all skewed by cultural phenomena.

      As I wrote before, his bullshit is in the same vein as junk that was used to underscore, excuse and promote liberal capitalism and all its ragged evil shit in the first place.

      Don’t have time for these guys (Molyneux and Southern)? Then why continue to give liberalism a free pass?

      It’s kind of fun to listen to him with “Blairism” or “third way” tosh, and Corbyn et al in mind. Just as the Blairites and other conservative liberals rain fear and opprobrium down on social democrats, so it is with Molyneux and Southern on their broader and pretty fucked up idea of “left”.

      They aren’t fascist (as some claim), but just unreconstructed liberals who’re pretty thick on it.

    • Cinny 16.3

      Niki has been having a grand ole time on da youtube. Thanks for posting the link, winks 🙂

    • joe90 16.4

      Dude’s a piece of shit.

      Already controversial for counselling his followers to shun their parents, a Toronto-area podcaster is facing allegations he listened in on his therapist wife as she met with distraught patients.

      Stefan Molyneux is a self-described libertarian philosopher. His wife, Christina Papadopoulos, is a psychological associate in Mississauga.

      The College of Psychologists of Ontario found Ms. Papadopoulos guilty of professional misconduct in November, 2012, faulting her for adopting Mr. Molyneux’s views and using the Internet to counsel people to sever ties with their families.

      A civil court complaint filed on Oct. 24 in California says Mr. Molyneux boasted in a 2006 podcast that he would listen while his wife talked with her patients, even interjecting and suggesting they sign up with his website.

      https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/controversial-podcaster-listened-in-on-therapist-wife-and-clients-lawsuit-alleges/article22158708/

  15. Sanctuary 17

    I see Picard is dusting off his Star Fleet uniform!
    https://twitter.com/SirPatStew/status/1025840545216823296?s=19

    • Incognito 17.1

      To go, or not to go boldly where no man has gone before? That’s the question 😉

      • Anne 17.1.1

        Incognito, you have reminded me of one of my many youthful bloopers:

        High School exam:
        Q. what is a virgin forest?
        A. A virgin forest is a forest untouched by man.

        That one made it into the [long gone] evening newspaper, the Auckland Star.

        Nope. I never told anyone it was me. 🙁

        • greywarshark 17.1.1.1

          That was excellent Anne. What could be wrong with that definition?

        • ianmac 17.1.1.2

          A few decades ago wool was labelled “Virgin Wool.” This puzzled me so I asked around as to why. No one seemed to know so it was raised on my behalf at a meeting of the Fed Farmers and Wool Marketing Board. No one seemed to know. A year or so later the “Virgin” was dropped from marketing.
          Coincidence?

          • In Vino 17.1.1.2.1

            I always took it as being a synonym of ‘pure’. Having marked School Certificate exams, I suspect that Anne may have lost no marks for her answer, but it is so excellent – an oasis in a desert of drudgery – that I understand the marker reporting it to the Head of the marking panel, and it then finding its way into the Examiner’s report, whence it would have reached the newspapers. Well done Anne!

        • halfcrown 17.1.1.3

          “High School exam:
          Q. what is a virgin forest?
          A. A virgin forest is a forest untouched by man.”
          Excellent Anne

        • Incognito 17.1.1.4

          Brilliant!

  16. greywarshark 20

    Through NZ Amici Forever.
    The tourists view – so beautiful.
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ekrEbCgS0

  17. There will be an interview of Molyneux and Southern on Sunday tonight.

    Not surprisingly TVNZ and front person Miriama Kamo are copping a bit of flak. She has posted this on Facebook:

    There’ve been calls for Sunday to be boycotted this week, because we are airing a story sparked by the alt-right duo Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux. Even before the story airs, we’ve had extensive and quite astonishing commentary about the content of our story, when only a fraction of it has been seen in public.

    Put that aside for now. Let’s look on why we’re doing a story. As journalists, it’s our role to examine our society, to canvas a diversity of views, and to reflect who we are and who we want to be. By demanding that we close down debate and discussion on what has been a huge story, we must then ask ‘what else should we ignore, what other views should we suppress, which other stories should we turn away from?’ You may not like what this controversial pair has to say, but it forces us to confront the very core of what free speech and hate speech is all about.

    At the heart of much of this furious reaction, is decency. Many people are insulted, offended and disgusted by the views of the Canadian duo. I appreciate that. However, there have also been suggestions that I, as a Māori woman, should not front this episode. I reject that. Our story this week is told by reporter Tania Page, another Māori woman. The notion that we should distance ourselves from this story is patronising. It has dominated the news agenda for over a fortnight. As an experienced journalist and as a Māori woman, I do not need protection. And, if it is seen as some sort of race betrayal, I return to the notion that no-one has seen our story yet – watch it first, and then decide.

    But, more importantly, I believe in the right to have a view and to back it vigorously. I believe in protest, so I also believe that when we are confronted by views we cannot accept, it creates a platform upon which we can crystallise and refine our personal position on issues; that we can decide where we fall on the question of free speech, where it starts and ends, and at what point we decide that it’s gone too far. Our opinions and our right to express them is at the heart of the democracy that we all enjoy. And, on Sunday tonight, we canvas a diversity of views.

    Watch the story, and let us know what you think.

    I think it could be worth watching.

    • Chris T 21.1

      These idiots will be threatening to protest Air NZ for having the audacity to let them on a plane next.

    • Bill 21.2

      …but it forces us to confront the very core of what free speech…

      Does it fuck.

      These dumb-arses (TVNZ) really don’t understand the difference between free speech and providing huge free platforms and immense amplification? (sigh) Am I surprised….? No.

      And again, as others have said, well done to everyone who sought to shut down a pair of nobodies who were possibly going to be splabbing shit to a half empty hall or auditorium.

    • Ad 21.3

      For contentious speakers it would be appropriate for such a powerful broadcaster to give the opposing view a shot in response.

      • In Vino 21.3.1

        I was inclined to agree initially, but then it made me wonder if such a policy were introduced, TV would then be obliged to immediately provide an opposing view to every interview they made..
        Perhaps an opposing view later if there is widespread reaction – which I suspect there will be.

        • Ad 21.3.1.1

          Presumably as Miriama Kamo notes, a variety of views will be canvassed.

          They’ll get them anyway, as people “crystallise and refine” their “personal positions on issues”.

      • Bill 21.3.2

        But…but…according to the blurb, it’s about free speech, and not about what they say/believe. So…the only opposing view would be one in favour of a fairly subjective regime of censorship.

        Meaning there will be nothing about IQs, and nothing about Islam, and nothing on any of the rest of their tosh, right? (No. I don’t believe that either)

        • Chris T 21.3.2.1

          ……………………………….No bomb threats

          “But…but…according to the blurb, it’s about free speech, and not about what they say/believe. So…the only opposing view would be one in favour of a fairly subjective regime of censorship.”

          How exactly do you jump to that conclusion?

          It is possible to let some one speak, and then give an argument as to why they are wrong.

          In fact with the dude its pretty piss easy

          • Carolyn_Nth 21.3.2.1.1

            And the Canadian duo’s supporters have issued death threats to an MP, and vile misogynist harassment to any woman that speaks against them. They will present a smarmy, glossy PR face to the TV cameras – like slippery used car neo-fashism salesmen.

            And their aim is to de-sensitise large sections of the population to their vile rhetoric.

            They are only big news because their PR and provocations were lapped up by too many in the mainstream media. The media are chasing their own futile, tail.

    • Carolyn_Nth 21.4

      And now we have Nigel Farage heading our way on an Aus-NZ Speaking tour. And then we will probably be getting Pauline Hanson.

      They are not part of NZ current events. We know what they think, say and do. There seems to be a racist, ultra-nationalist, neo-fash movement to spread their poison internationally right now. TVNZ is just being a useful idiot.

      • Chris T 21.4.1

        So is Chelsea Manning

        • Carolyn_Nth 21.4.1.1

          And she is like a neo-fashist, and has a following from such people, how?

          • Chris T 21.4.1.1.1

            No she isn’t. But then I wouldn’t describe Southern as one either

            If you are into listening to people convicted of 5 counts of espionage and theft including leaking the details of covert special forces soldiers that were at the time serving under cover overseas I’m sure that Chelsea is awesome. And she has every right to say whatever shite she wants to

            Good on her

      • Bill 21.4.2

        There seems to be a racist, ultra-nationalist, neo-fash movement to spread their poison internationally right now. TVNZ is just being a useful idiot.

        Not just TVNZ. I know I keep banging on about liberal promotion of right wing shite as a scare factor to keep people in line, but this piece by Owen Jones covers things off quite nicely and links to a research piece in the British Journal of Political Science….

        The article identifies key periods in which stagnating or declining support for UKIP is followed by increases in media coverage and subsequent increases in public support. The findings show that media coverage may drive public support for right-wing populist parties in a substantively non-trivial fashion that is irreducible to previous levels of public support, even in a national institutional environment least supportive of such an effect. The findings have implications for political debates in the UK and potentially other liberal democracies.

        Oh. And then there’s the atrocious bullshit from the ex chief political editor of the Guardian…

        • Carolyn_Nth 21.4.2.1

          Thaks. Some interesting research, plus an indication from Owen Jones that the far right is strongest now since 1930s, and that the media is helping its rise.

          The academic article doesn’t cover long enough time periods to check whether the media picks up on declines in far right parties and gives it a boost – or whether it’s a coincidence and there are other causal factors.

          It does nothing to prove or disprove my hypothesis that neo-nazis like the National from in the 1970s, surge to prominence when there is a major crisis in capitalism – ie in 1970s when the post-war welfare state consensus was breaking down, and in the end of the 1st decade of the 21st century, when the neoliberal consensus was starting to crumble.

          • Bill 21.4.2.1.1

            I thought (admittedly from a very quick read) that it was quite explicit in concluding that increased media coverage boosted UKIP when it’s support had declined. Maybe I need to read it more carefully. But assuming the example of UKIP can be applied to other right wing parties….

            And in relation to your hypothesis, there was this predictable reaction from liberal forces of law and order in Portland …

    • Cinny 21.5

      Yup, I’m interested to tune in. How about that… they complain about no freedom of speech in NZ, yet they have a prime time interview on state funded TV.

      The irony.

    • Incognito 21.6

      All that sounds lovely great but no matter how you dress this up it still is a business transaction between two parties who are pursuing their business interests, first and foremost.

      The media have a nasty habit of beating non-events into a frenzied hype of pseudo-relevance and importance AKA ‘the public interest’. Their reasons are obvious. The ‘free speech’ argument also is a red herring to claim or re-claim a platform, preferably a public one, that reaches far, wide & deep into society.

      I have reflected on this and I won’t watch it because the pretext is false/misleading/wrong, just like headlines, as usual …

  18. Dennis Frank 22

    Colmar Brunton poll result on tonight’s news: N45, L42, G6, NZF5. So the margin between the govt + Greens is 8%, half that suggested by a media report of hearsay re a UMR source. So the supposed leap was a mirage.
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/simon-bridges-still-struggling-cut-through-voters-latest-1-news-colmar-brunton-poll-shows?auto=5818189875001

    • Craig H 22.1

      Well, different polls have different results all the time but agree that it’s unlikely to be that far apart. I think the primary danger here is NZ First are above the 5% threshold, and not going with Labour again and choosing National instead, but that’s not terribly likely.

  19. Fireblade 23

    Todays One News Colmar Brunton Poll

    National 45%
    Labour 42%
    Green 6%
    NZ First 5%

    Seats in Parliament
    National+Act=56 Seats
    Labour+Green+NZF=64 Seats

    Preferred Prime Minster
    Jacinda Ardern 40%
    Simon Bridges 10%
    Winston Peters 5%
    Judith Collins 2%
    John Key 2%

  20. mac1 24

    Anybody celebrating the latest poll?
    Party choice
    National/ACT 56%
    Labour/Greens/NZFirst 64%

    Preferred PM
    Ardern 40% (after 6 weeks leave)
    Bridges 10%
    Peters 5%
    Collins 2%

    No change in business confidence contradicting the doom- and nay-sayers on the Right.

    Intending to go and hear Bridges in Blenheim to learn the answer to that philosophical question. “What is the sound of one dog barking?”

  21. Sanctuary 25

    An eight seat gap in our polarised voting environment is huge.

  22. Morrissey 26

    “Oh, ‘the meddling of Russia in our elections’? That has most of the world cracking up in laughter. … It’s not even a joke as compared with what we do constantly.”

  23. Dennis Frank 27

    Well, ten minutes in and the Sunday programme still hasn’t given us any evidence upon which to evaluate the Canadians. It seems to have deliberately decided to avoid doing so. Just a whole lot of comments from others discussing the situation in general terms. Pseudo-journalism, designed to distract viewers from the substance of the issue.

    • Bill 28.1

      Not quite understanding how updating a civil registry of deaths (if that’s what’s happening) automatically means the deaths occurred in custody. But hey…

      • joe90 28.1.1

        Syrian families who maintained that their loved ones had disappeared in government detention facilities find out that the regime had recently registered their relatives as dead. But hey….

        • Bill 28.1.1.1

          The article says that the Syrian government has started updating civil registries to reflect deaths among its incarcerated population, activists say.

          Note the stated source?

  24. Dennis Frank 29

    They did interview them in the second segment but no evidence of hate speech resulted. The closest they got was a reference to inclusion of scientific findings that differentiated races on the basis of IQ testing on a media show by Molyneux, but I didn’t hear any actual quote that he believed that, just an inference. Hard to tell when people with a foreign accent talk fast. A competent interviewer would have clarified that ambiguity. I think Sunday is just into sensationalism.

    • solkta 29.1

      His rant about IQ and ‘race’ was part of the promotional video for the tour as aired by TV1. I linked to it at the time. You can use your google to find out just what a pig this guy is.

      • solkta 29.2.1

        if ya hadn’t followed all the lead-up, you’d have to take that as a piss take.

      • Dennis Frank 29.2.2

        Thanks for that. I’ve watched 1’25” so far and already think his view is flawed: no critical evaluation of IQ tests in his reasoning. IQ tests were discredited long ago due to their cultural bias – I assumed he already knew that. He’s an academic historian operating outside his domain of professional expertise.

        • dV 29.2.2.1

          Yes Dennis, the ‘measurement’ of IQ is the key aspect.

        • Dennis Frank 29.2.2.2

          Now he’s using genetic determinism. Intelligence doesn’t just come from our genetic basis, it comes from how we use that as resource in our cultural context. Our brains are plastic: neuroscience discovered that in the nineties or thereabouts. Neurones reconnect to others and/or disconnect constantly in response to environmental cues. Society is part of our environment. He’s exhibiting the academic syndrome known as `silo-thinking’ (the opposite of a multi-disciplinary perspective).

        • joe90 29.2.2.3

          .

          He’s an academic historian operating outside his domain of professional expertise.

          Nope. The man’s a dangerous, self styled quack with a couple of degrees who’s, AFAIK, never worked in academia.

    • Sacha 29.3

      “They did interview them in the second segment but no evidence of hate speech resulted.”

      You mean the director and producer made sure that what aired wasn’t hate speech? #gasp

  25. Philj 31

    These polls are mere grist for the MSM bs mill. The MSM has credibility issues. Clicks are more important than facts.

  26. Dennis Frank 32

    From “Who we are and how we got here: ancient DNA and the new science of the human past” by Harvard Professor of Genetics, David Reich:

    “Today, many people assume that humans can be grouped biologically into `primeval’ groups , corresponding to our notion of `races’, whose origins are populations that separated tens of thousands of years ago. But this long-held view about `race’ has just in the last few years been proven wrong – and the critique of concepts of race that the new data provide is very different from the classic one that has been developed by anthropologists over the last hundred years. A great surprise that emerges from the genome revolution is that in the relatively recent past, human populations were just as different from each other as they are today, but that the fault lines across populations were almost unrecognizably different from today. DNA extracted from remains of people who lived, say, ten thousand years ago shows that the structure of human populations at that time was qualitatively different. Present day populations are blends of past populations, which were blends themselves.”

    In the words of the hit song from 1969 (“what we need is a great big melting pot”), a big melting pot is what we’ve got (despite superficial appearances to the contrary) – and we’ve always had it!

  27. Jenny 33

    The debate on giving a platform to White Supremacists and Alt-Right fascists.

    Has echoes in the debate over giving climate change deniers a platform.

    From the Guardian;

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/02/bbc-climate-change-deniers-balance?CMP=share_btn_tw

    • corodale 33.1

      Yeah, greens are better to talk passed and around the detail to others n other issues. Countrie’s wooose will be Labour’s doing, come end of term, Greens where just the deal maker to keep gnats out.
      Wander if a peace movement would develop in the next 12 month, to back an election for the Greens. Rig it with no8 wire to win the election on organic farming, and peace.
      Peace

  28. corodale 34

    Agriculture needs to KISS the farmers with one rule on NITROGEN, and keep it super simple. Keep away from dangerously bureaucratic farting.

    Focus on simple conversion to organic. Leave nitro gases out of it. Though issues around FERTILISER PRODUCTION may need tightening, and equivalent small cost as trade barrier (, see how dangerously easy this bureacracy is).

    The manure from dairy is required for organic compost for crop diversification. This new organic diversity will out-compete the current system which suffers negative externalities. Thus transition will be gentle. Win win.

    The organic farms where resilient here in Europe, still 4 months without rain, and all organic farms I know have still managed basic feed solutions of some sort for continuation. Not sure that conventional farmers are so well, many without financial liquidity to survive consecutive bad seasons. Fields for sale, got any QE?

  29. eco maori 35

    Good morning The Am Show I ‘m going to tautoko our Tangata whenua Austrailan cousin in my next post.
    I can see that’s national are trying to ramp up paula bennett profile she already know’s there goal someone is being used as a human sheald they are going to try and copy Labour .
    I tautoko any free education for the mokopuna’s and giving employers the dole to educate 4000 people is a good start by Labour .
    I think a tax break for employers who up skill there employees is a good idea but giving every employer a tax break for apprenticeships will leave the door open to cheats.
    I would like to see a system were the employer does not get his mone till the employee get there tickets .
    Space is were we have to go its the future when is the big question .
    Eco Maori says that Papatuanuku Peace is what is needed to help mittergate climate change World Peace. Ka kite ano.

  30. eco maori 36

    I say we don’t need to be wasting time on that other line that trump likes to use to rark up people emotions its like the race religion new word terrorist the old version savages.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/106031412/andrew-little-caught-up-in-pretty-terrifying-lombok-quake Ka kite ano

  31. eco maori 37

    The Australian tangata whenua have been give a real bad deal by the state it will be very similar to what has happened to Aotearoa tangata whenua our cultures have a lot of in-common the way we think of Papatuanuku Tangaroa Rangi all the important atua they are part of te tangata Europeans just don’t get it or refuse to get it.
    Eco Maori has some advice for our cousins across the Tasman sea Promote your great culture Promote your Wahine get your tangata into local goverment and Canberra this is the only way to get the state systems to work for you and not against you.
    Don’t be radical because you have to take all Australians on this journey of Promoting your Great culture teach all Australians about the reality of how bad the state has treated your tangata let them know that you just want to be treated as Equals and not a second class citizen another great tool to get justice is to have all Australian tangata whenua to have one voice one political movement. there are many people with ties to tangata whenua and when they see how great your culture is they will tautoko your culture and the changes the state need’s to make to put your culture in its right full place on Papatuanuku Equal with all cultures I say better . Ka kite ano link below .

    https://e-tangata.co.nz/reflections/old-certainties-old-prejudices-old-fears-are-losing-their-grip/ P.S Eco Maori knows indigenous cultures care about there mokopunas future and the enviroment more than the settlors Kia kaha

  32. eco maori 38

    This is a exerlint link to a story to help Kiwi’s and Maori everyone understand Aotearoa tangata whenua culture this is how Eco Maori see reality Kia kaha all tangata

    https://e-tangata.co.nz/reflections/old-certainties-old-prejudices-old-fears-are-losing-their-grip/ ENJOY

  33. eco maori 39

    Good evening Newshub Condolences to all the tangata who lost love ones in the earth Quakes in Indonesia. I have seen a $300. million company go bank rupt no one lost there jobs just new liquidator administration why is that not the case now has shonky changed the laws so banks get there pound of flesh before anyone else.
    judith collins just splashed mud on her own face aaaaaaaaaaaa crusher showing her true colors
    Yes you got to watch a cow with a calf they can be quite protective of there calf I have seen many people have problems with them .They could be lacking magnesium remember to respect Papatuanuku creates.
    Is that the reason that trump plucked out the Kiwi act to let OUR fire fighters get into America .
    Thats innovation the card game that teaches mokopunas to identifies invasive insects that could be accidentally imported
    Thats the reason Why I say the Quoter Management system does not work as well as other systems around the Papatuanuku corruption and over fishing then they see the stock is low and drop the Quoter this could cause some fish to go extinct.
    Ka kite ano

  34. eco maori 40

    The Crowd Goes Wild Mulls and James The AB Couch can’t pick every one we have a lot of talented player in Aotearoa .
    Eco Maori’s favorite League team had a good win this weeked go The Warriors Kia kaha
    I was busy riding my horse I only went to school when we had cooking classes and wood metal work classes Ka kite ano P.S I owe the Rock radio for helping me with the Eco Maori effect Mulls Jen Rodge Bryce John Brad thanks

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