Open Mike 05/08/2018

170 comments on “Open Mike 05/08/2018 ”

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1. adam 1

   5 August 2018 at 6:30 am

   The rally calling on the government to impose a moratorium on arrests over medical cannabis was held yesterday.

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/08/medicinal-cannabis-supporters-call-for-moratorium-on-arrests.html

   Got a bit of coverage before the event, but not a lot after becasue the authoritarian types were playing silly buggers in Aotea square. Which was doubly disappoint as a lot of disabled people did not attend the moratorium rally as attended, becasue they did not want to be caught amongst it.

   Nice music, good crowd and really good speeches.
   • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1

     5 August 2018 at 7:06 am

     Ffs if the law was applied equally then every hospice would have half their patients arrested.

     Time for some common sense cops.
     • dukeofurl 1.1.1

       5 August 2018 at 8:36 am

       really ? Are you saying hospices are allowing patients to use stuff that hasnt been clinically approved as a medication ?
       • gsays 1.1.1.1

         5 August 2018 at 1:14 pm

         Well.. As you can not overdose on it, as adults they are past the teen psychosis potential… why not?

         If it provides relief from pain, improves appetite, generates mental well being and minimizes spasms it’s none of the state’s business.
         Nor anyone else’s.

         While clinically proven is needed in lots of highly toxic ‘medicines’ leave the weed out of this.
         Clinically proven is merely a gate to Big Pharma profit paddock.
         Free the marijuana.
         • Dukeofurl 1.1.1.1.1

           5 August 2018 at 6:22 pm

           I thought a hospice wasn’t like a byo cafe, the patients are under medical supervision. The clinical staff could be struck off for playing a ‘tinnie house’.
           Maybe it’s not like what I would expect, but I guess they are used to crackpots who have weird ideas about medication and pain relief and think they know best
           • gsays 1.1.1.1.1.1

             6 August 2018 at 8:16 am

             I am talking about patients actions, not hospice policy.
   • Chris T 1.2

     5 August 2018 at 3:31 pm

     How many arrests have there been for medicinal use of weed again?
     • adam 1.2.1

       5 August 2018 at 3:49 pm

       I’d say one is to many – you?

       Sorry only have anecdotal numbers of about 50 people in the last few months.
       • Chris T 1.2.1.1

         5 August 2018 at 3:57 pm

         If there were any where near 50 in the last month there would be an uproar bigger than the Canadians

         Just linking to one will do
         • adam 1.2.1.1.1

           5 August 2018 at 4:13 pm

           Really quite a dishonest way to make an argument chris t. When did I say last month? Deliberate misrepresentation by you for what purpose can I ask?
           • Chris T 1.2.1.1.1.1

             5 August 2018 at 4:33 pm

             Fair point. I apologise

             If there were 50 in the last few months there would be an uproar bigger than the Canadians

             If there were 50 in the last few years there would be an uproar
             • adam …

               5 August 2018 at 4:40 pm

               I can personally think of three cannabis fairies being arrested in the last couple of months. Not so much as a whimper from the general populous – so I’m not sure what your making the assumption on.

               Also the select committee breached privacy on over 100 people in the recent hearings, and not a whimper from the general populous.

               So again, not sure why you think people actually give two rats?
               • Chris T …

                 5 August 2018 at 5:49 pm

                 That is cool. I can see this is possible, but you said 50 and my question was users
                 • adam …

                   5 August 2018 at 5:57 pm

                   The rally was a call for moratorium on arrests over medical cannabis, which not only included users, but people supply cannabis based products to people. I included both in my figure, which is no way where precise, that is why I said anecdotal – meaning an unreliable figure.
                   • Chris T …

                     5 August 2018 at 6:07 pm

                     Fair call

                     Personally prefer a bit more control over who is supplying it and what they are actually supplying in the long run (what it might be laced with etc….and I doubt all the people calling themselves fairies are in it purely out of their compassion, and not just using this as an alibi for dealing), but tend to agree the heavy hand side of things should be toned down till it is sorted.

                     Just wish

                     a) The Greens had written a bill actually thinking of this. And a plan of where your average sufferer can actually obtain it would have been helpful

                     b) The Nats didn’t play politics and stall the whole thing to include these issues by coming up with another bill which probably won’t picked unless Labour fast track it. Which they won’t because again they will play politics and refuse to as for some stupid reason they will see it as backing down (Like who gives a shit…… I think their motto was “Let’s do this” from memory)

                     Good luck any way
               • Dukeofurl …

                 5 August 2018 at 6:26 pm

                 Cannabis faries? You are just making it up. Which courts, what charges? What was the result…. Or was it something you haven’t heard directly but talking about could be/might be
                 • adam …

                   5 August 2018 at 10:50 pm

                   Here is the term you’re probably more familiar with ‘green fairies” the people who supply medicinal cannabis. – hence “cannabis fairies”.

                   What are the charges could they have? Do you seriously not know?
             • reason …

               6 August 2018 at 9:13 am

               When they keep arresting, harassing, entrapping and intimidating Green Cross spokespeople and leaders …..

               ……. When they keep arresting, harassing, entrapping and intimidating ” cannabis fairies ” … or otherwise bring the hammer down on others who at no profit get Cannabis and THC / CBD products … to the ill / sick people who benefit from them …

               Then the numbers persecuted would number in the thousands and thousands over the years.

               In reality Cannabis prohibition is a nasty cult … as its based on lies …. and its the closest thing we have to overt fascism in this country.

               The big sick lie upon which the cult of Cannabis prohibition is based …. Is the legal / cult definition of “drug abuse” … Which has nothing to do with the scientific or medical definition of drug abuse ….

               Medically speaking drug abuse is the continual use of a drug when it is harming your health or life…..

               Our law / cult definition of “drug abuse”… is any use of a drug like Cannabis …. under any circumstances.

               What is more …. breaking this cult law and bullshit definition of drug abuse ….. is deemed so serious it is a criminal offence…. with special quasi fascist laws……. Eg , when a cop claims to smell Cannabis he can evoke “Emergency drug laws” ..

               … These “Emergency drug laws” … evoked from the “emergency” of someone smoking or burning Cannabis allow the police to operate under a form of ‘martial law’ … Allowing them to do things like kick in your house door and conduct warrant-less searches.

               So from the bullshit cult foundation of “drug abuse” …. We have bullshit “Emergency” cannabis smell / smoke martial laws …. where our normal rights and protections are trashed.

               Drug squads get money, toys … and fast track Clint Rickards / Mike Sabin promotions and careers.

               Child abuse units get starved of funds ……… and cases / victims ignored for years and years.

               Finally, for an example of ‘cult speak … “Drugs and Alcohol” is a retarded political statement ….

               …. Allowing the National party to pretend to be anti-drug. ……………. When they are so pro the drug ethanol / alcohol …. that they couldn’t really give a stuff about the victims … of this $$75 Million per week drug industryin NZ .

               The correct term is either ‘Alcohol and Other drugs’ ‘ …. Or just ‘Drugs’ ….

               When even the wet brain alcohol retarded sots recognize Ethanol as a drug …. the work of National and other prohibitionist cult members can be seen for the nasty prejudiced bullshit it is.
2. AsleepWhileWalking 2

   5 August 2018 at 7:02 am

   Law Society show themselves to be the bullshitters we suspected they are re:sexual abuse cover up

   #metoo

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/106008654/a-young-law-graduate-was-the-target-of-one-of-nzs-most-sweeping-gagging-orders
   • Jenny 2.1

     5 August 2018 at 6:35 pm

     Free speech and suppression of free speech is something that the rich and powerful enjoy. The rest of us, without deep pockets, or not favourites of Right Wing pressure groups, that can raise $50 thousand overnight, not so much.

     Matt Taylor says it would have cost the Law Society at least $10,000 to issue the injunction order against him. “And on the other hand, they’ve said there’s no money to pay for the sexual harassment task force they have set up with volunteers.”…..

     “They pushed the boundaries by asking for a super-injunction while at the same time telling the public [in the wake of the Russell McVeagh revelations] that everything was fine and there was nothing to worry about.

     “They were making public statements that they weren’t suppressing Catriona MacLennan’s free speech but that’s what they were doing to me.”…..

     …..Tidy and clean-shaven, the young lawyer speaks slowly and weighs each word. The contents of the email were “distressing”, and that was compounded by the fact he was not allowed to talk to anyone about it, apart from his lawyer. And it went on for four months. “It was like a weight”.

     Taylor is presently looking for a job. A legal clash with the body representing lawyers probably doesn’t help his case – but he believed he had an obligation to stand up and do the right thing…..

     …..Taylor wears a smart shirt and black jeans. His parents, he said, come from a working class background – so he knew how lucky he was to have the opportunity to speak up. “I have more privilege to do that. It would feel wrong not to say something. I have a strong sense of justice. I don’t know if something triggered that.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106008654/a-young-law-graduate-was-the-target-of-one-of-nzs-most-sweeping-gagging-orders

     Related comments and posts:

     “There’s No Such Thing as Free Speech”

     “…the gory freedom of free foxes in a free chicken run”

     Free Speech Coalition, said the group had reached its $50,000 funding target in less than 24 hours.

     “People like Bob Jones need to understand that the privilege they have in society also comes with a responsibility, and at a bare minimum that includes not writing flagrant hate speech in the media.”
3. AsleepWhileWalking 3

   5 August 2018 at 7:32 am

   Waaaat?

   Woman in China transforms herself into a totally unrecognisable person using makeup and “sculpting” prosthetics. So much for facial ID.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12101210
   • dukeofurl 3.1

     5 August 2018 at 8:34 am

     The whole story is fake. make up cant change your eyes
     • Cinny 3.1.1

       5 August 2018 at 1:27 pm

       But sellotape can 🙂
4. corodale 4

   5 August 2018 at 7:50 am

   Wander how often the Israeli Embassy communicates with NZ govt. Or perhaps NZ’s military is one of the more significant points of interaction. I’m assuming they write the manual on how to use the most of our stuff.

   Anywhichway, guess their govt folk would look at us like creatures-from-outer-space, when we say, ‘we have a mostly non-religious govt’.

   Wander if a fair recommendation would be the German govt system, as an improvement for Israel, with religion ruling hospitals, kindergartens (and secret intelligence 😉 Religion ruling a govt is a trick that should be used reservedly. So as not to push the Ottoman to do similar. That MMP system is similar enough for NZer’s to present will some insight. And German govt is still kind on Israel, so they can grasp it, lots o visits, etc…

   Draw them in with debate on Charter Schools, or better? On the hope of peace, and a shot at some of those 2degree targets you folk like talking about?
5. marty mars 5

   5 August 2018 at 8:08 am

   t.rump – sicko

   “The Trump administration has rescinded an Obama-era ban on the use of pesticides linked to declining bee populations and the cultivation of genetically modified crops in dozens of national wildlife refuges where farming is permitted.

   Environmentalists, who had sued to bring about the two-year-old ban, said on Friday that lifting the restriction poses a grave threat to pollinating insects and other sensitive creatures relying on toxic-free habitats afforded by wildlife refuges.

   “Industrial agriculture has no place on refuges dedicated to wildlife conservation and protection of some of the most vital and vulnerable species,” said Jenny Keating, federal lands policy analyst for the group Defenders of Wildlife.”

   https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/04/trump-administration-lifts-ban-on-pesticides-linked-to-declining-bee-numbers

   yep the bees are fake news – the pink puke loves the bees and the bees love him – right up till they all died.
   • mauī 5.1

     5 August 2018 at 8:50 am

     A pity Obama didn’t appear to do much on deadly pesticide use in US agriculture or target the multi-national producers of them.

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO27gsuQ2gM
     • marty mars 5.1.1

       5 August 2018 at 8:59 am

       Ffs why can’t you argue with integrity? Read the article again and notice the first line of the bit i quoted.
       • mauī 5.1.1.1

         5 August 2018 at 9:36 am

         I am arguing with integrity. The video is putting in context the use of bee killing pesticides in the US.

         What is the bigger issue here? That these pesticides are used throughout US agriculture and I assume most of the country, with little controls. Or that a new administration has expanded their use into new wildlife areas. The video also implies that these pesticides would be contaminating wildlife areas anyway.
     • North 5.1.2

       5 August 2018 at 9:23 am

       For those with a sneaking regard for Trump…..”whatabout whatabout whatabout (insert name of choice)”.
     • Andre 5.1.3

       5 August 2018 at 2:44 pm

       Fuck me you’re a sad sack of shit, maui.

       No, Obama wasn’t able to fix all the problems in the US regulatory regime around harmful substances. Arguably that’s way too big a problem to ever get dealt with in a single step, or even just a few steps.

       But he did put into law a huge step forward whereby anyone that wants to introduce some new substance has to show it’s safe, rather than being allowed to introduce anything they want and maybe, sometime later, be forced to withdraw it if someone else shows it’s unsafe. That’s a big improvement.

       Whereas the waddling spray-tan warning label is trying his hardest to go full speed in a backwards direction with actions like this one or going backwards on emissions controls for vehicles.

       http://time.com/4378712/tsca-obama-toxic-chemicals/
       • adam 5.1.3.1

         5 August 2018 at 3:56 pm

         So you start with a personal attack andre, all class that.

         Some people don’t think incrementalism works, exactly because the actions of trump. As you argument proves.

         What is it and this site, with the whole Bush jr. approach to politics now the new normal. “If your not for, us you’re against us” was a truly silly concept when Bush jr said it, it looks even more desperate and silly now.
6. Pat 6

   5 August 2018 at 9:11 am

   “Freshwater fish are suffocating in rivers across Europe during the heatwave.”

   http://www.euronews.com/2018/08/02/germany-fish-are-dying-in-rivers-from-heatwave

   The pattern caused by climate change also became evident in the model runs around 2030, adding confidence to the conclusion that widespread deoxygenation due to climate change will become detectable around that time.

   The maps could also be useful resources for deciding where to place instruments to monitor ocean oxygen levels in the future to get the best picture of climate change impacts. Currently ocean oxygen measurements are relatively sparse.

   “We need comprehensive and sustained observations of what’s going on in the ocean to compare with what we’re learning from our models and to understand the full impact of a changing climate,” Long said.

   https://phys.org/news/2016-04-widespread-loss-ocean-oxygen-2030s.html
   • cleangreen 6.1

     5 August 2018 at 11:43 am

     Yes Pat; How true this is;

     Now studies are confiming that the global oxygen ambient sea levels have been declining since the beginning of the “industrial era” driven by high emissionmns of greenhouse gasses and petroleum distilates and plastic use.

     quote; “Atmospheric Oxygen Levels Are Dropping Faster Than Atmospheric Carbon Levels Are Rising”

     share this:
     Facebook1K+TwitterGoogleTumblrPinterest15RedditPocket
     Posted By: Good German JAN 27, 2013

     https://i1.wp.com/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Earth6391.jpg/128px-Earth6391.jpg?resize=128%2C96

     Forget rising temperatures and bigger storms, this is the big problem that neither side of the mainstream debate over environmental destruction is talking about. Peter Tatchell reported for the Guardian back in 2008:

     We are slowing killling our own habitat where it willl eventually not sustain human, aquatic or animal life.

     Why did they think they could cheat “mother nature”?

     http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6371/eaam7240.full

     Declining oxygen in the global ocean and coastal waters
     Denise Breitburg1,*, Lisa A. Levin2, Andreas Oschlies3, Marilaure Grégoire4, Francisco P. Chavez5, Daniel J. Conley6, Véronique Garçon7, Denis Gilbert8, Dimitri Gutiérrez9,10, Kirsten Isensee11, Gil S. Jacinto12, Karin E. Limburg13, Ivonne Montes14, S. W. A. Naqvi15,†, Grant C. Pitcher16,17, Nancy N. Rabalais18, Michael R. Roman19, Kenneth A. Rose19, Brad A. Seibel20, Maciej Telszewski21, Moriaki Yasuhara22, Jing Zhang23
     See all authors and affiliations

     Science 05 Jan 2018:
     Vol. 359, Issue 6371, eaam7240
     DOI: 10.1126/science.aam7240
     • Ed 6.1.1

       5 August 2018 at 9:41 pm

       We have killed our Home.
   • Bill 6.2

     5 August 2018 at 4:36 pm

     Whimsical thought for the day…

     ….since we need a fair amount of oxygen for our brains to work well, and since carbon is nicking off with atmospheric oxygen (atmospheric levels of O is surely dropping in line with increases of CO2)….does that mean that as time progresses we become even more thick and unable to deal with what our stupidity has already stacked up for us?
     • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 6.2.1

       5 August 2018 at 5:07 pm

       More than likely!!!
       • Dukeofurl 6.2.1.1

         5 August 2018 at 6:36 pm

         Check the numbers
         400 Parts per million vs 210,000 ppm for O2

         Even breathing leaves behind 160,000 ppm oxygen when you exhale
         Forget completely about CO2 robbing the oxygen
     • Pat 6.2.2

       5 August 2018 at 5:36 pm

       lol…quite likely. let us also hope increased CO2 levels also have a sedative effect.
     • mac1 6.2.3

       5 August 2018 at 6:29 pm

       My whimsical brain tells me that I’m glad that burnt carbon picks up two atoms of oxygen, and not just one…………. or we’d be inhaling a planetarian exhaust pipe.
       • Dukeofurl 6.2.3.1

         5 August 2018 at 6:45 pm

         Can’t happen even if it had 4 oxygen atoms. CO2 is essential for plant life so isn’t an ‘exhaust’
         • Dukeofurl 6.2.3.1.1

           5 August 2018 at 6:55 pm

           The air you breath out out has 10x the CO2 of what you breath in.
           So your normal air is never going to be as much ‘exhast’ of what you breathe out

           I hope that clears up a few misconceptions
7. greywarshark 7

   5 August 2018 at 9:39 am

   Liked the talk about ‘constructive journalism’ on Media WatchRadionz this morning with stuff editor I think. Very hopeful and forward looking and wide thinking outside the envelope (to use a cliche). Nicola Brennan-Tupura from stuff?

   One fact that arose – pork being treated with antibiotics presumably as prophylactics, a bad animal husbandry? practice, now being given probiotics with good outcomes. Example of constructive journalism, reporting the story and good outcomes that folowed on as well – full story to the public not concentrating on depressing negatives alone.
   • Sacha 7.1

     5 August 2018 at 10:08 am

     Link: https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018655203/publishing-the-positives-cojo
8. Jenny 8

   5 August 2018 at 10:58 am

   Fail:

   Tim Groser being recalled

   “Useless as…, [insert your comparison here]

   The Glenbrook Steel Mill in Franklin and fully owned subsidiary Pacific Steel in Otahuhu are major employers in South Auckland.

   The closure of these two major employers would be devastating for the South Auckland economy.

   Critically, Groser failed to win New Zealand (once described as a “very, very, very good friend” of the US) an exemption from harsh new steel tariffs. That is threatening to cripple NZ’s steel industry…..

   …..Earlier this year, New Zealand was not in the list of countries exempt from paying a tariff on steel, but Australia was – one reason cited as contributing to Groser’s early return home….

   Groser, a former trade minister criticised for his enjoyment of the good life at public expense, took up the Washington posting in 2016.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/105999533/nz-ambassador-to-trumps-washington-recalled
   • Jenny 8.1

     5 August 2018 at 11:24 am

     On his return, no doubt Tim Groser will be heading the list of National Party acolytes put forward for a knighthood.

     For services to yourself* Arise Sir Timothy

     “Just call me Tim.”

     *(and for services to wealthy New Zealanders)

     Donald Trump recently signed the KIWI Act into law, giving New Zealanders access to E1 and E2 visas, the latter which allows an individual to enter and work inside of the US based on an investment.

     US Ambassador to New Zealand Scott Brown said Mr Trump “signed it right away”.

     As he would

     For the international elite some immigrants are obviously more worthy than others.

     https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/08/tim-groser-getting-sacked-as-ambassador-to-the-us-report.html
     • cleangreen 8.1.1

       5 August 2018 at 11:49 am

       100% Jenny perfectly said.

       “Groser is goose”

       You gave me a well needed smile on my face. Thanks flor that.
   • Cinny 8.2

     5 August 2018 at 1:47 pm

     Good freaking job. He’s always come across to me as a functioning alcoholic, cashing up on the free booze cabinet in the ‘board room’.

     Do it with someone elses money Grosser, like your own, tax payers shouldn’t be used to fund an elderly politicians bad habits.
   • Pete George 8.3

     5 August 2018 at 4:27 pm

     Sounds like a fail by Vance.

     NZ Herald: NZ’s Ambassador to US Tim Groser will not seek extension to term of appointment

     New Zealand’s Ambassador to the United States Tim Groser himself asked to leave the position at the end of his three-year term, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has confirmed.

     “Any suggestion he has been recalled by the minister or ministry is baseless,” Peters said in a statement.

     However, Peters said that was not correct.

     “The New Zealand Ambassador to the United States, Hon Tim Groser, is leaving his position later this year at the expiry of his three-year term.

     “He was appointed by the previous government and his contract was only ever for three years.

     “Mr Groser himself asked to finish at the conclusion of his three-year term and did not seek any extension.”

     Trade Minister David Parker also rubbished suggestions the failure to gain an exemption from tariffs was behind the end of Groser’s term.

     “It’s not because of under-performance on trade. I can confirm that’s not the case because I’d know about that because I’m Trade Minister.

     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12101605
   • Philj 8.4

     5 August 2018 at 6:42 pm

     The ‘journalist’ appears to have been misinformed about the reasons for the Ambassadors return. Someone is making stuff up. Bau?
9. te reo putake 9

   5 August 2018 at 11:27 am

   Don’t watch this GIF. No, really. Don’t.

   https://twitter.com/scottEweinberg/status/1025754277371883521

   And absolutely don’t read the wider report, with bonus drily ironic Seattle PD commentary:

   https://humanpersonface.tumblr.com/post/176597419195/null-al-ghul-bellygangstaboo-antifa-cleaning
10. joe90 10

    5 August 2018 at 11:36 am

    We are so fucked.

    If you regularly watch TV, you’ve probably seen a cartoon bear pitching you toilet paper, a gecko with a British accent selling you auto insurance and a bunny in sunglasses promoting batteries.

    This has always struck me as a bit odd. Sure, it makes sense to use cartoon characters to sell products to kids – a phenomenon that’s been well-documented.

    But why are advertisers using the same techniques on adults?

    To me, it’s just one symptom of a broader trend of infantilization in Western culture. It began before the advent of smartphones and social media. But, as I argue in my book “The Terminal Self,” our everyday interactions with these computer technologies have accelerated and normalized our culture’s infantile tendencies.

    […]

    High-tech pacifiers

    While scholars such as James Côté and Gary Cross remind us that infantilizing trends began well before our current moment, I believe our daily interactions with smartphones and social media are so pleasurable precisely because they normalize and gratify infantile dispositions.

    They endorse self-centeredness and inflated exhibitionism. They promote an orientation towards the present, rewarding impulsivity and celebrating constant and instant gratification.

    They flatter our needs for visibility and provide us with 24/7 personalized attention, while eroding our ability to empathize with others.

    https://theconversation.com/the-infantilization-of-western-culture-99556
    • cleangreen 10.1

      5 August 2018 at 11:55 am

      Joe, thanks for that contrabution as itis so right that we are becomming part of the digital unhuman world of self expression without a human element now.

      We are deviod of personal engagement as we nhad with a meeting or phone call..
      • greywarshark 10.1.1

        5 August 2018 at 11:59 am

        joe90
        That is interesting and I might put an emoji up if I could be bothered. But I have more important things to do at present.
    • One Two 10.2

      5 August 2018 at 12:51 pm

      Yes Joe, the spells were cast generations ago…

      Insidious, covert and undetectable to those who are entranced…
    • Gabby 10.3

      5 August 2018 at 7:02 pm

      That pretty much explains Jesse Mulligan..
11. joe90 11

    5 August 2018 at 12:14 pm

    Was going to happen.

    Venezuela leader 'survives drone attack' https://t.co/77v44i4Yc5— BBC News (UK) (@BBCNews) August 4, 2018

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45073385?

    #Ahora la cadena nacional del presidente Nicolás Maduro fue interrumpida. El audio del mandatario fue cortado y luego se observó a militares corriendo de forma desordenada. pic.twitter.com/S14NDGDeXi— Efecto Cocuyo (@EfectoCocuyo) August 4, 2018

    https://twitter.com/EfectoCocuyo/status/1025864784137334784
    • Bill 11.1

      5 August 2018 at 12:42 pm

      Will just quietly note there seems to be a suggestion of disappointment from liberal media. He “survived” takes centre stage over the attempt to kill him. Slightly ‘odd’ set of priorities for a headline, duntyathink?

      Here’s video of his security detail shielding him as the drones came in.

      https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1025901122882551808

      Don’t watch it if you prefer a mental image of him scampering in line with the loaded commentary that soldiers “scattered” (no bloody discipline or gumption, eh?).
    • adam 11.2

      5 August 2018 at 4:04 pm

      So the twitter feed from Efecto Cocuyo was the best/worst fake news I’ve seen for a while. Thanks for the link joe90. Know not to trust a word out of their mouth now.
    • adam 11.3

      5 August 2018 at 4:16 pm

      And under the twitter feed from Efecto Cocuyo you can read all the violent fantasies of the far right, really delightful stuff.
      • joe90 11.3.1

        5 August 2018 at 4:32 pm

        ‘Murican fantasies.

        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjxhZK8V4AAh9Lx.jpg

        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjxiUmMU8AAaCUG.jpg

        https://twitter.com/itsmikebivins/status/1025801297683832832
        • adam 11.3.1.1

          5 August 2018 at 4:43 pm

          Yuck, is the only right response to those links.
          • Bill 11.3.1.1.1

            5 August 2018 at 4:54 pm

            Well, no. There was a response. And then a predictable response from the forces of liberalism to the initial response.

            Police in riot gear use stun grenades and pepper spray on leftwing groups protesting against Patriot Prayer marchers
            • adam 11.3.1.1.1.1

              5 August 2018 at 6:04 pm

              I only saw the first two images, and did not look at the third, I’d had enough and was unsure of what joe90 was posting.

              That worse than some fantasy, that is the state working hand in hand with the far right to shut down any, and all opposition. It was a blatant use of violence as a political weapon, I wonder how many defenders of liberalism will say that was ok, or support the police?
12. ianmac 12

    5 August 2018 at 12:28 pm

    This business about low business Confidence is puzzling. Is it real and does it matter?
    Brian Easton has a pretty good crack at it.

    When I was closely associated with a business opinion survey many years ago, we found that the responses about the state of the economy were virtually valueless. If you asked a business whether they were taking on labour, selling more or investing more, their predictions in one survey correlated with what they say happened in the next. But we could never find any systematic relationship between their opinions and economic activity as a whole. I see that Bill Rosenberg of the NZCTU came to a similar conclusion using more recent data.

    The reason for this disjuncture is that businessmen and women know a lot about what is going on in their businesses, but very little about what is going on in the whole economy….

    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/%E2%80%98business-opinion%E2%80%99-is-falling-does-it-matter
    • Philj 12.1

      5 August 2018 at 6:48 pm

      Cameron Bagrie said on RNZ morning report that he didn’t pay much attention to business confidence surveys as there are better measures available! I thought he had been peddling these surveys for years as Chief Economist for ANZ. LOL
13. Herodotus 13

    5 August 2018 at 12:46 pm

    On news hub yesterday we were told by our Minister that the teachers demands are out of kilter
    How is the current Labour govt any different to the previous Nats ?
    Legimite converns BUT no money
    not as I see it – teachers are not high on the Govts priorities as can be seen by where the money has been spent. So another 3 years of wages being below CPI, so a pay cut in real terms just like the last 9 years, yet the average pay increase over the Same period for all full time earners was over 25%
    If you vote for us next time(read 3 years ), perhaps there will could be a better offer, BUT no promises
    • Herodotus 13.1

      5 August 2018 at 1:04 pm

      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2018/08/teachers-pay-demands-well-out-of-kilter-education-minister-chris-hipkins.html
    • Incognito 13.2

      5 August 2018 at 1:54 pm

      Is it just (!) about (the) money?

      The strike was less about money and more about the need for more teachers, and smaller classes, Vercoe said.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/105979996/teacher-strike-about-the-kids-as-parents-lobbied-at-school-gates
      • Herodotus 13.2.1

        5 August 2018 at 6:34 pm

        As someone who has friends and family in the teaching industry, money does play a part. Why else are many teachers migrating out of Auckland, because they cannot afford to live in the city. Resulting in many schools with a shortage of teachers ??
        • Incognito 13.2.1.1

          5 August 2018 at 7:40 pm

          Sure, money does play a part, it always does, doesn’t it?

          The ridiculous house prices in Auckland have put these out of reach for many, not just teachers. They’ll need to be paid a hell of a lot more to balance the rise in property prices. In any case, this is not an Auckland issue; the strike is nation-wide.

          My point is that the reporting has been selective and shallow, as usual, which only serves to polarise.
        • Herodotus 13.2.1.2

          5 August 2018 at 8:21 pm

          Understand that.
          Unfortunately this is fast becoming a situation whereby it is a win/loss situation
          The govt is positioning itself with the”we have no more $$” to increase our offer. Because there are a few other claims e.g. NZPPTA to follow.So if one gets a major increase the flow on effect of those following wanting to have their similar demands met.
          Would not like to be the union that accepts a “lower” rate, then to see other industries achieve a greater increase for their workers.
          And when reviewing the Newshub interview our minister is down playing the NZEI demands.
          • Incognito 13.2.1.2.1

            5 August 2018 at 9:38 pm

            Yes, good point about benchmarking and setting a precedent.
14. SaveNZ 14

    5 August 2018 at 1:21 pm

    Tim Groser coming home, ending term as Ambassador to US

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/08/tim-groser-getting-sacked-as-ambassador-to-the-us-report.html
15. SaveNZ 15

    5 August 2018 at 1:44 pm

    The shocking decline of the Hauraki Gulf

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2018/08/the-shocking-decline-of-the-hauraki-gulf.html
16. veutoviper 16

    5 August 2018 at 1:53 pm

    Like day follows night ….

    About half an hour ago, Stefan Molyneux put up a new youtube video (13+ mins) – – – sob, sob, its brutal out here,
    – hysteria from the media, designed to get the demonic mob to attack us
    – we are not free to move anywhere without large bodyguards to protect us from the feral mob
    – we lost a venue and hundreds and hundreds of people have lost out on the chance to see us
    – bayonets are going to be pointed and we are here to prevent this and need to prevent this
    – PM and govt have come out against us … (she was head of socialist youth …)
    – Lauren and I get our courage from you
    – But we need you – you are the movement
    – we cannot do it without your help – or rather your money … sob sob

    … donate now to freedomradio – paypal, visa or credit cards

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Is6MT-Hqc

    What a performance …!!! Whaleoil take note. ROFL
    • Incognito 16.1

      5 August 2018 at 1:59 pm

      Sorry, I can’t be bothered spending 13+ mins of my life on watching this but I’d be more interested in the number of Views and Likes and whether the Comment section has been enabled. After all, it’s clicks that they’re after.
      • Carolyn_Nth 16.1.1

        5 August 2018 at 2:05 pm

        I didn’t watch the vid, but scrolled through the comments under it.

        Man, they sure is an angry mob – all about “the feral left” … as written by the feral right.

        SM certainly knows how to whip up their feralness.

        Let’s hope that means he and his ilk stay away from this country in the future.
        Wouldn’t matter how critics responded to them, they’d play it through their propaganda machine one way or another.
        • Incognito 16.1.1.1

          5 August 2018 at 2:17 pm

          Mission accomplished then. It never fails, unfortunately, and nobody has figured out an effective way of countering these kinds of people/views; ignoring them is not an option but neither is fighting fire with fire …
          • Carolyn_Nth 16.1.1.1.1

            5 August 2018 at 2:23 pm

            Solidarity, love, peace – until physically attacked.

            The rally in Aotea Square was an indicator of the way forward: love balloons, waiata, some angry and tough words pointing to ways forward, reminding us of what is at stake…. and not a pitchfork in sight.
            • Incognito 16.1.1.1.1.1

              5 August 2018 at 2:35 pm

              So true, duh!!

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_power
              • Carolyn_Nth …

                5 August 2018 at 2:56 pm

                I was around then, and bought the flower power MO. But, I think there was a high degree of naivety about the forces we were up against. It was believed that if we changed our lives at the flax roots, massive society-wide change would follow.

                There needs to be a more eyes-wide-open understanding of the power/s we are up against.

                Peaceful approaches to mobilising for change are important at the flax roots. But there also needs to be awareness of how/when the power of the elites will be mobilised – ie when their power is under threat. And this power includes state-sanctioned violence, as well as covert and unofficial uses of violence.

                For instance, it’s now known large sections of the counter-culture and protesting populations were under state surveillance – especially those taking leading roles.

                “Flower Power” came to the fore with the 1967 “Summer of Love” in San Francisco”.

                the anti-war movement gained momentum.

                In 1970, the Ohio National Guard shot and killed 4 students, and wounded 9 – all unarmed protesting the Viet Nam War.

                In 1982 in NZ, the anti-Springbok tour movement was strong and non-violent. It was the NZ police that started using violent tactics.

                In the late 1970s and early 80s in England, the National Front claimed it was their opponents who were violent, and proceeded to arm themselves. There was violence against black people in the dark back streets at the time – The NF of course, did not own it. The NF attacked civil liberties meetings, with injuries resulting.
                • Incognito …

                  5 August 2018 at 7:54 pm

                  Yes, very good points!

                  I think there is much professional paranoia among State-led institutions & organisations and coupled to professional blindness & bias and the fact that there often is no room for nuance all means that they are easily led (astray) to do ‘the dirty work’ of and for the Establishment. Unfortunately, leadership and professional careers depend on following instructions & orders (the so-called chain-of-command), acting ‘by the book’, with active discouragement of independent thinking let alone decision-making. Obviously, there are (good?) reasons for this, e.g. in times of crisis, but sometimes these crises are almost entirely manufactured …
            • veutoviper 16.1.1.1.1.2

              5 August 2018 at 2:49 pm

              Getty has some great photos up – just remember they cannot be used without payment.
              https://www.gettyimages.co.nz/event/anti-racism-activists-rally-against-lauren-southern-and-stefan-molyneux-event-775204305#/anti-racist-protestors-rally-at-aotea-square-on-august-3-2018-in-new-picture-id1010060800
      • mac1 16.1.2

        5 August 2018 at 2:08 pm

        Hopefully 14,219 clicks- the distance between Auckland and Ottawa, Canada………
        • marty mars 16.1.2.1

          5 August 2018 at 2:23 pm

          Yes and the poor suffering first nation people’s having these low bastards living and hating near them.
      • veutoviper 16.1.3

        5 August 2018 at 2:39 pm

        Fair enough, that is why I did a summary. I only know about it as I had an alert on his Twitter account as I was wondering whether they were still in NZ – ie I don’t know whether the TVNZ1 Sunday programme tonight at 7.30pm is live or prerecorded.

        Anyway, this new Youtube video has only been up for about one hour and as of now (2.34pm) : 19,402 views, 2784 thumbs up and 51 thumbs down, and 802 comments.

        Update at 2.44pm 22,452, 3182 up, 62 down and 912 comments.

        His Tweet put up advertising the video also logged an hour ago has had 33 replies, 192 likes, and 97 retweets.
        • Incognito 16.1.3.1

          5 August 2018 at 4:05 pm

          Thanks. By posting the link you may have, inadvertently, contributed to those stats 😉

          I don’t think I’ll watch TVNZ1 Sunday either; I don’t watch TV at all and it seems a shame to break a good habit for no compelling reason. For some reason I’ve come to prefer the written word but like watching movies on mute …
          • veutoviper 16.1.3.1.1

            5 August 2018 at 4:21 pm

            Sure, by posting the link I may have contributed to those stats but I really don’t think it will be many. In fact I think it is more important that people actually see for themselves how he has spun what happened here in NZ, what he is claiming re NZ, and his true nature and con-artistry.

            I am going to watch tonight online and I am a very irregular viewer of TV programmes. I cannot remember how many years it is since I actually turned a real TV on! Marama Davidson is also on the programme and two other people (one a female Muslim refugee whose name I cannot remember and the other a man whose name ditto).

            Actually last night in yet another bout of insomnia I spent some time checking out the background of some of the S & M hangers-on on this trip which was eye opening. I might do a little summary later tonight if I have time.
            • Incognito 16.1.3.1.1.1

              5 August 2018 at 7:58 pm

              I look forward to your summary if/when it appears.
        • Cinny 16.1.3.2

          5 August 2018 at 4:07 pm

          I’m so sure they run many of fake accounts to generate the likes and comments. As for the views, one just needs to hit refresh…. if many fake accounts are doing such it’s an easy way to drive up viewing numbers, ask little max key, rofl!

          Most of the youtube comments were calling for violence, they seem to think they are at war, like they are calling to arms etc. Apparently supporters are done talking because no one is listening, so feel violence and civil war is their available option. It’s nuts. But I guess many have no idea, just his words, so they swallow it up hook line and sinker.

          Donate now, donate generously, as their NZ holiday has run into a funding issue. Only reason I can think of for such a video.
          • Carolyn_Nth 16.1.3.2.1

            5 August 2018 at 4:11 pm

            Keith Ng said:

            https://twitter.com/keith_ng/status/1025225142970896384

            They will continue to play the victim, not because we are somehow giving them what they want, but because that is their best strategy when we are winning. Dems the breaks. You don’t try to counter an underdog strategy by deliberately not winning duh.
    • Bill 16.2

      5 August 2018 at 2:47 pm

      To bring reason, evidence and arguments to essential cultural and political issues… says the guy who would have us regard IQ tests as being scientifically valid and not at all skewed by cultural phenomena.

      As I wrote before, his bullshit is in the same vein as junk that was used to underscore, excuse and promote liberal capitalism and all its ragged evil shit in the first place.

      Don’t have time for these guys (Molyneux and Southern)? Then why continue to give liberalism a free pass?

      It’s kind of fun to listen to him with “Blairism” or “third way” tosh, and Corbyn et al in mind. Just as the Blairites and other conservative liberals rain fear and opprobrium down on social democrats, so it is with Molyneux and Southern on their broader and pretty fucked up idea of “left”.

      They aren’t fascist (as some claim), but just unreconstructed liberals who’re pretty thick on it.
      • Incognito 16.2.1

        5 August 2018 at 4:10 pm

        Did he say that in the video?

        What he meant was probably more like this:

        To bring my reason, my evidence and my arguments to essential cultural and political issues as I see them… [omitted the usual bolds]
        • Bill 16.2.1.1

          5 August 2018 at 4:15 pm

          You really think he would have added the caveat of “as I see them“? 🙂
          • Incognito 16.2.1.1.1

            5 August 2018 at 9:54 pm

            Well, he’s self-proclaimed (cyber)philosopher who also claims to host/own “the most popular philosophy website in the world” (pretty modest IMO) and “his lifelong calling is philosophy”.

            https://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/how-a-cyberphilosopher-convinced-followers-to-cut-off-family/article7511365/?page=all

            So, yes 😉
    • Cinny 16.3

      5 August 2018 at 4:00 pm

      Niki has been having a grand ole time on da youtube. Thanks for posting the link, winks 🙂
    • joe90 16.4

      5 August 2018 at 6:46 pm

      Dude’s a piece of shit.

      Already controversial for counselling his followers to shun their parents, a Toronto-area podcaster is facing allegations he listened in on his therapist wife as she met with distraught patients.

      Stefan Molyneux is a self-described libertarian philosopher. His wife, Christina Papadopoulos, is a psychological associate in Mississauga.

      The College of Psychologists of Ontario found Ms. Papadopoulos guilty of professional misconduct in November, 2012, faulting her for adopting Mr. Molyneux’s views and using the Internet to counsel people to sever ties with their families.

      A civil court complaint filed on Oct. 24 in California says Mr. Molyneux boasted in a 2006 podcast that he would listen while his wife talked with her patients, even interjecting and suggesting they sign up with his website.

      https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/controversial-podcaster-listened-in-on-therapist-wife-and-clients-lawsuit-alleges/article22158708/
17. Sanctuary 17

    5 August 2018 at 2:23 pm

    I see Picard is dusting off his Star Fleet uniform!
    https://twitter.com/SirPatStew/status/1025840545216823296?s=19
    • Incognito 17.1

      5 August 2018 at 2:38 pm

      To go, or not to go boldly where no man has gone before? That’s the question 😉
      • Anne 17.1.1

        5 August 2018 at 3:52 pm

        Incognito, you have reminded me of one of my many youthful bloopers:

        High School exam:
        Q. what is a virgin forest?
        A. A virgin forest is a forest untouched by man.

        That one made it into the [long gone] evening newspaper, the Auckland Star.

        Nope. I never told anyone it was me. 🙁
        • greywarshark 17.1.1.1

          5 August 2018 at 4:09 pm

          That was excellent Anne. What could be wrong with that definition?
        • ianmac 17.1.1.2

          5 August 2018 at 5:25 pm

          A few decades ago wool was labelled “Virgin Wool.” This puzzled me so I asked around as to why. No one seemed to know so it was raised on my behalf at a meeting of the Fed Farmers and Wool Marketing Board. No one seemed to know. A year or so later the “Virgin” was dropped from marketing.
          Coincidence?
          • In Vino 17.1.1.2.1

            5 August 2018 at 6:23 pm

            I always took it as being a synonym of ‘pure’. Having marked School Certificate exams, I suspect that Anne may have lost no marks for her answer, but it is so excellent – an oasis in a desert of drudgery – that I understand the marker reporting it to the Head of the marking panel, and it then finding its way into the Examiner’s report, whence it would have reached the newspapers. Well done Anne!
        • halfcrown 17.1.1.3

          5 August 2018 at 6:41 pm

          “High School exam:
          Q. what is a virgin forest?
          A. A virgin forest is a forest untouched by man.”
          Excellent Anne
        • Incognito 17.1.1.4

          5 August 2018 at 8:03 pm

          Brilliant!
18. te reo putake 18

    5 August 2018 at 2:52 pm

    Some sad news, Bryan Pepperell has died:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/106024066/Long-serving-Wellington-city-councillor-Bryan-Pepperell-dies-aged-65
19. Morrissey 19

    5 August 2018 at 2:56 pm

    Probably the most despicable woman in Britain right now

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/with-a-past-like-hers-margaret-hodge-might-show-a-bit-more-humility-10098871.html
20. greywarshark 20

    5 August 2018 at 3:05 pm

    Through NZ Amici Forever.
    The tourists view – so beautiful.
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ekrEbCgS0
21. Pete George 21

    5 August 2018 at 4:31 pm

    There will be an interview of Molyneux and Southern on Sunday tonight.

    Not surprisingly TVNZ and front person Miriama Kamo are copping a bit of flak. She has posted this on Facebook:

    There’ve been calls for Sunday to be boycotted this week, because we are airing a story sparked by the alt-right duo Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux. Even before the story airs, we’ve had extensive and quite astonishing commentary about the content of our story, when only a fraction of it has been seen in public.

    Put that aside for now. Let’s look on why we’re doing a story. As journalists, it’s our role to examine our society, to canvas a diversity of views, and to reflect who we are and who we want to be. By demanding that we close down debate and discussion on what has been a huge story, we must then ask ‘what else should we ignore, what other views should we suppress, which other stories should we turn away from?’ You may not like what this controversial pair has to say, but it forces us to confront the very core of what free speech and hate speech is all about.

    At the heart of much of this furious reaction, is decency. Many people are insulted, offended and disgusted by the views of the Canadian duo. I appreciate that. However, there have also been suggestions that I, as a Māori woman, should not front this episode. I reject that. Our story this week is told by reporter Tania Page, another Māori woman. The notion that we should distance ourselves from this story is patronising. It has dominated the news agenda for over a fortnight. As an experienced journalist and as a Māori woman, I do not need protection. And, if it is seen as some sort of race betrayal, I return to the notion that no-one has seen our story yet – watch it first, and then decide.

    But, more importantly, I believe in the right to have a view and to back it vigorously. I believe in protest, so I also believe that when we are confronted by views we cannot accept, it creates a platform upon which we can crystallise and refine our personal position on issues; that we can decide where we fall on the question of free speech, where it starts and ends, and at what point we decide that it’s gone too far. Our opinions and our right to express them is at the heart of the democracy that we all enjoy. And, on Sunday tonight, we canvas a diversity of views.

    Watch the story, and let us know what you think.

    I think it could be worth watching.
    • Chris T 21.1

      5 August 2018 at 4:47 pm

      These idiots will be threatening to protest Air NZ for having the audacity to let them on a plane next.
    • Bill 21.2

      5 August 2018 at 5:07 pm

      …but it forces us to confront the very core of what free speech…

      Does it fuck.

      These dumb-arses (TVNZ) really don’t understand the difference between free speech and providing huge free platforms and immense amplification? (sigh) Am I surprised….? No.

      And again, as others have said, well done to everyone who sought to shut down a pair of nobodies who were possibly going to be splabbing shit to a half empty hall or auditorium.
      • Chris T 21.2.1

        5 August 2018 at 5:17 pm

        I hate to break it to you, but you don’t have a born right to filter my tv viewing
        • Bill 21.2.1.1

          5 August 2018 at 5:50 pm

          ?
          • Chris T 21.2.1.1.1

            5 August 2018 at 6:18 pm

            TVNZ has every right to interview them.

            Hopefully with a bit less trying to censor them than a few protestors

            It seems to have emerged that the reason it was cancelled was some idiot protester making a bomb threat btw

            https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/police-investigating-after-claims-bomb-threat-made-towards-canadian-alt-right-speakers
            • Bill 21.2.1.1.1.1

              5 August 2018 at 6:35 pm

              Did I say that TVNZ can’t interview them? No.

              What I’ve said is that TVNZ appear to be idiots who can’t tell the difference between free speech, and witlessly turbo-charging bullshit by deliberately manufacturing/providing a platform for it.
              • Chris T …

                5 August 2018 at 6:51 pm

                OK

                What is the difference between free speech and what YOU think it is not free speech
            • joe90 21.2.1.1.1.2

              5 August 2018 at 7:05 pm

              Posted on Shitposting Arena NZ, so it must be true.

              https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Djq1hQrU4AAr3su.jpg
    • Ad 21.3

      5 August 2018 at 6:03 pm

      For contentious speakers it would be appropriate for such a powerful broadcaster to give the opposing view a shot in response.
      • In Vino 21.3.1

        5 August 2018 at 6:28 pm

        I was inclined to agree initially, but then it made me wonder if such a policy were introduced, TV would then be obliged to immediately provide an opposing view to every interview they made..
        Perhaps an opposing view later if there is widespread reaction – which I suspect there will be.
        • Ad 21.3.1.1

          5 August 2018 at 6:36 pm

          Presumably as Miriama Kamo notes, a variety of views will be canvassed.

          They’ll get them anyway, as people “crystallise and refine” their “personal positions on issues”.
      • Bill 21.3.2

        5 August 2018 at 6:32 pm

        But…but…according to the blurb, it’s about free speech, and not about what they say/believe. So…the only opposing view would be one in favour of a fairly subjective regime of censorship.

        Meaning there will be nothing about IQs, and nothing about Islam, and nothing on any of the rest of their tosh, right? (No. I don’t believe that either)
        • Chris T 21.3.2.1

          5 August 2018 at 6:39 pm

          ……………………………….No bomb threats

          “But…but…according to the blurb, it’s about free speech, and not about what they say/believe. So…the only opposing view would be one in favour of a fairly subjective regime of censorship.”

          How exactly do you jump to that conclusion?

          It is possible to let some one speak, and then give an argument as to why they are wrong.

          In fact with the dude its pretty piss easy
          • Carolyn_Nth 21.3.2.1.1

            5 August 2018 at 6:49 pm

            And the Canadian duo’s supporters have issued death threats to an MP, and vile misogynist harassment to any woman that speaks against them. They will present a smarmy, glossy PR face to the TV cameras – like slippery used car neo-fashism salesmen.

            And their aim is to de-sensitise large sections of the population to their vile rhetoric.

            They are only big news because their PR and provocations were lapped up by too many in the mainstream media. The media are chasing their own futile, tail.
    • Carolyn_Nth 21.4

      5 August 2018 at 6:43 pm

      And now we have Nigel Farage heading our way on an Aus-NZ Speaking tour. And then we will probably be getting Pauline Hanson.

      They are not part of NZ current events. We know what they think, say and do. There seems to be a racist, ultra-nationalist, neo-fash movement to spread their poison internationally right now. TVNZ is just being a useful idiot.
      • Chris T 21.4.1

        5 August 2018 at 6:49 pm

        So is Chelsea Manning
        • Carolyn_Nth 21.4.1.1

          5 August 2018 at 6:50 pm

          And she is like a neo-fashist, and has a following from such people, how?
          • Chris T 21.4.1.1.1

            5 August 2018 at 7:18 pm

            No she isn’t. But then I wouldn’t describe Southern as one either

            If you are into listening to people convicted of 5 counts of espionage and theft including leaking the details of covert special forces soldiers that were at the time serving under cover overseas I’m sure that Chelsea is awesome. And she has every right to say whatever shite she wants to

            Good on her
      • Bill 21.4.2

        5 August 2018 at 7:13 pm

        There seems to be a racist, ultra-nationalist, neo-fash movement to spread their poison internationally right now. TVNZ is just being a useful idiot.

        Not just TVNZ. I know I keep banging on about liberal promotion of right wing shite as a scare factor to keep people in line, but this piece by Owen Jones covers things off quite nicely and links to a research piece in the British Journal of Political Science….

        The article identifies key periods in which stagnating or declining support for UKIP is followed by increases in media coverage and subsequent increases in public support. The findings show that media coverage may drive public support for right-wing populist parties in a substantively non-trivial fashion that is irreducible to previous levels of public support, even in a national institutional environment least supportive of such an effect. The findings have implications for political debates in the UK and potentially other liberal democracies.

        Oh. And then there’s the atrocious bullshit from the ex chief political editor of the Guardian…
        • Carolyn_Nth 21.4.2.1

          5 August 2018 at 7:36 pm

          Thaks. Some interesting research, plus an indication from Owen Jones that the far right is strongest now since 1930s, and that the media is helping its rise.

          The academic article doesn’t cover long enough time periods to check whether the media picks up on declines in far right parties and gives it a boost – or whether it’s a coincidence and there are other causal factors.

          It does nothing to prove or disprove my hypothesis that neo-nazis like the National from in the 1970s, surge to prominence when there is a major crisis in capitalism – ie in 1970s when the post-war welfare state consensus was breaking down, and in the end of the 1st decade of the 21st century, when the neoliberal consensus was starting to crumble.
          • Bill 21.4.2.1.1

            5 August 2018 at 7:56 pm

            I thought (admittedly from a very quick read) that it was quite explicit in concluding that increased media coverage boosted UKIP when it’s support had declined. Maybe I need to read it more carefully. But assuming the example of UKIP can be applied to other right wing parties….

            And in relation to your hypothesis, there was this predictable reaction from liberal forces of law and order in Portland …
    • Cinny 21.5

      5 August 2018 at 7:15 pm

      Yup, I’m interested to tune in. How about that… they complain about no freedom of speech in NZ, yet they have a prime time interview on state funded TV.

      The irony.
    • Incognito 21.6

      5 August 2018 at 8:29 pm

      All that sounds lovely great but no matter how you dress this up it still is a business transaction between two parties who are pursuing their business interests, first and foremost.

      The media have a nasty habit of beating non-events into a frenzied hype of pseudo-relevance and importance AKA ‘the public interest’. Their reasons are obvious. The ‘free speech’ argument also is a red herring to claim or re-claim a platform, preferably a public one, that reaches far, wide & deep into society.

      I have reflected on this and I won’t watch it because the pretext is false/misleading/wrong, just like headlines, as usual …
22. Dennis Frank 22

    5 August 2018 at 6:36 pm

    Colmar Brunton poll result on tonight’s news: N45, L42, G6, NZF5. So the margin between the govt + Greens is 8%, half that suggested by a media report of hearsay re a UMR source. So the supposed leap was a mirage.
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/simon-bridges-still-struggling-cut-through-voters-latest-1-news-colmar-brunton-poll-shows?auto=5818189875001
    • Craig H 22.1

      5 August 2018 at 6:49 pm

      Well, different polls have different results all the time but agree that it’s unlikely to be that far apart. I think the primary danger here is NZ First are above the 5% threshold, and not going with Labour again and choosing National instead, but that’s not terribly likely.
23. Fireblade 23

    5 August 2018 at 6:45 pm

    Todays One News Colmar Brunton Poll

    National 45%
    Labour 42%
    Green 6%
    NZ First 5%

    Seats in Parliament
    National+Act=56 Seats
    Labour+Green+NZF=64 Seats

    Preferred Prime Minster
    Jacinda Ardern 40%
    Simon Bridges 10%
    Winston Peters 5%
    Judith Collins 2%
    John Key 2%
24. mac1 24

    5 August 2018 at 6:46 pm

    Anybody celebrating the latest poll?
    Party choice
    National/ACT 56%
    Labour/Greens/NZFirst 64%

    Preferred PM
    Ardern 40% (after 6 weeks leave)
    Bridges 10%
    Peters 5%
    Collins 2%

    No change in business confidence contradicting the doom- and nay-sayers on the Right.

    Intending to go and hear Bridges in Blenheim to learn the answer to that philosophical question. “What is the sound of one dog barking?”
25. Sanctuary 25

    5 August 2018 at 6:51 pm

    An eight seat gap in our polarised voting environment is huge.
26. Morrissey 26

    5 August 2018 at 7:43 pm

    “Oh, ‘the meddling of Russia in our elections’? That has most of the world cracking up in laughter. … It’s not even a joke as compared with what we do constantly.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edC5OjBK5zU
27. Dennis Frank 27

    5 August 2018 at 7:46 pm

    Well, ten minutes in and the Sunday programme still hasn’t given us any evidence upon which to evaluate the Canadians. It seems to have deliberately decided to avoid doing so. Just a whole lot of comments from others discussing the situation in general terms. Pseudo-journalism, designed to distract viewers from the substance of the issue.
    • Morrissey 27.1

      5 August 2018 at 8:03 pm

      Sunday is useless, and Miriama Kamo is hopeless.
28. joe90 28

    5 August 2018 at 7:57 pm

    The Assad regime owns up to it’s crimes.

    Why now?

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/syria-civil-registers-disclose-hundreds-prison-deaths-57005891
    • Bill 28.1

      5 August 2018 at 9:44 pm

      Not quite understanding how updating a civil registry of deaths (if that’s what’s happening) automatically means the deaths occurred in custody. But hey…
      • joe90 28.1.1

        5 August 2018 at 9:54 pm

        Syrian families who maintained that their loved ones had disappeared in government detention facilities find out that the regime had recently registered their relatives as dead. But hey….
        • Bill 28.1.1.1

          5 August 2018 at 11:05 pm

          The article says that the Syrian government has started updating civil registries to reflect deaths among its incarcerated population, activists say.

          Note the stated source?
29. Dennis Frank 29

    5 August 2018 at 8:00 pm

    They did interview them in the second segment but no evidence of hate speech resulted. The closest they got was a reference to inclusion of scientific findings that differentiated races on the basis of IQ testing on a media show by Molyneux, but I didn’t hear any actual quote that he believed that, just an inference. Hard to tell when people with a foreign accent talk fast. A competent interviewer would have clarified that ambiguity. I think Sunday is just into sensationalism.
    • solkta 29.1

      5 August 2018 at 8:04 pm

      His rant about IQ and ‘race’ was part of the promotional video for the tour as aired by TV1. I linked to it at the time. You can use your google to find out just what a pig this guy is.
    • joe90 29.2

      5 August 2018 at 8:16 pm

      In his own words.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOi5D9YcKOI&feature=youtu.be

      http://stu-topia.blogspot.com/2016/08/quotations-from-stefan-molyneux-
      • solkta 29.2.1

        5 August 2018 at 8:21 pm

        if ya hadn’t followed all the lead-up, you’d have to take that as a piss take.
      • Dennis Frank 29.2.2

        5 August 2018 at 8:37 pm

        Thanks for that. I’ve watched 1’25” so far and already think his view is flawed: no critical evaluation of IQ tests in his reasoning. IQ tests were discredited long ago due to their cultural bias – I assumed he already knew that. He’s an academic historian operating outside his domain of professional expertise.
        • dV 29.2.2.1

          5 August 2018 at 8:41 pm

          Yes Dennis, the ‘measurement’ of IQ is the key aspect.
        • Dennis Frank 29.2.2.2

          5 August 2018 at 8:45 pm

          Now he’s using genetic determinism. Intelligence doesn’t just come from our genetic basis, it comes from how we use that as resource in our cultural context. Our brains are plastic: neuroscience discovered that in the nineties or thereabouts. Neurones reconnect to others and/or disconnect constantly in response to environmental cues. Society is part of our environment. He’s exhibiting the academic syndrome known as `silo-thinking’ (the opposite of a multi-disciplinary perspective).
          • Dennis Frank 29.2.2.2.1

            5 August 2018 at 9:04 pm

            Well, I bailed out half-way through. He just seemed to be going round in circles, repeating himself in different words. He has an ideology in his head that he’s held captive by that operates via racial categories and generalisations. Being out of his depth, he uses a glimpse of science to represent reality. Science isn’t static, but he seems to assume that the glimpse he got has structured his view of reality in a terminal way. I will post something from a new book that makes his view seem dated.
            • joe90 29.2.2.2.1.1

              5 August 2018 at 9:12 pm

              As outlined in the second link, which happened to truncate itself, it’s a compilation.

              http://stu-topia.blogspot.com/2016/08/quotations-from-stefan-molyneux-showing.html
            • Carolyn_Nth 29.2.2.2.1.2

              5 August 2018 at 9:36 pm

              He also operates via gender categories. He blames the violence of the world on women, because we have the babies and have most impact on the early years of a child’s life. There’s a few links online about this.

              Crikey. On trying to re-find some links about this, I came across some really dodgy stuff about Molyneux back in 2014.

              He was sued by a women for allegedly making false claims about her vid/s, which criticsed Molyneux. So, this “free speech activist” claimed she had doxed some of his followers, causing her vids to be taken down. She issued a lawsuit against him.

              In the course of this, it was discovered he listened into some of his wife’s sessions when she was being a therapist. Molyneux would interupt to make promos for his radio station.

              The law suit was resolved by Molyneux issuing a statement saying no doxing occurred, and the vids were re-instated.
        • joe90 29.2.2.3

          5 August 2018 at 8:50 pm

          .

          He’s an academic historian operating outside his domain of professional expertise.

          Nope. The man’s a dangerous, self styled quack with a couple of degrees who’s, AFAIK, never worked in academia.
    • Sacha 29.3

      5 August 2018 at 10:08 pm

      “They did interview them in the second segment but no evidence of hate speech resulted.”

      You mean the director and producer made sure that what aired wasn’t hate speech? #gasp
30. Obtrectator 30

    5 August 2018 at 8:06 pm

    Well, now we know where American cops stand in relation to the alt-Right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/04/patriot-prayer-to-carry-guns-at-portland-rally-as-fears-of-violence-rise
    • joe90 30.1

      5 August 2018 at 8:12 pm

      Fascists have spent years burrowing their way into the services.

      https://rewire.news/article/2018/03/09/leaked-message-board-shows-white-supremacists-think-police/
31. Philj 31

    5 August 2018 at 8:09 pm

    These polls are mere grist for the MSM bs mill. The MSM has credibility issues. Clicks are more important than facts.
32. Dennis Frank 32

    5 August 2018 at 9:28 pm

    From “Who we are and how we got here: ancient DNA and the new science of the human past” by Harvard Professor of Genetics, David Reich:

    “Today, many people assume that humans can be grouped biologically into `primeval’ groups , corresponding to our notion of `races’, whose origins are populations that separated tens of thousands of years ago. But this long-held view about `race’ has just in the last few years been proven wrong – and the critique of concepts of race that the new data provide is very different from the classic one that has been developed by anthropologists over the last hundred years. A great surprise that emerges from the genome revolution is that in the relatively recent past, human populations were just as different from each other as they are today, but that the fault lines across populations were almost unrecognizably different from today. DNA extracted from remains of people who lived, say, ten thousand years ago shows that the structure of human populations at that time was qualitatively different. Present day populations are blends of past populations, which were blends themselves.”

    In the words of the hit song from 1969 (“what we need is a great big melting pot”), a big melting pot is what we’ve got (despite superficial appearances to the contrary) – and we’ve always had it!
    • Tricledrown 32.1

      5 August 2018 at 11:32 pm

      Well said Dennis
33. Jenny 33

    6 August 2018 at 12:39 am

    The debate on giving a platform to White Supremacists and Alt-Right fascists.

    Has echoes in the debate over giving climate change deniers a platform.

    From the Guardian;

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/02/bbc-climate-change-deniers-balance?CMP=share_btn_tw
    • corodale 33.1

      6 August 2018 at 1:23 am

      Yeah, greens are better to talk passed and around the detail to others n other issues. Countrie’s wooose will be Labour’s doing, come end of term, Greens where just the deal maker to keep gnats out.
      Wander if a peace movement would develop in the next 12 month, to back an election for the Greens. Rig it with no8 wire to win the election on organic farming, and peace.
      Peace
34. corodale 34

    6 August 2018 at 1:42 am

    Agriculture needs to KISS the farmers with one rule on NITROGEN, and keep it super simple. Keep away from dangerously bureaucratic farting.

    Focus on simple conversion to organic. Leave nitro gases out of it. Though issues around FERTILISER PRODUCTION may need tightening, and equivalent small cost as trade barrier (, see how dangerously easy this bureacracy is).

    The manure from dairy is required for organic compost for crop diversification. This new organic diversity will out-compete the current system which suffers negative externalities. Thus transition will be gentle. Win win.

    The organic farms where resilient here in Europe, still 4 months without rain, and all organic farms I know have still managed basic feed solutions of some sort for continuation. Not sure that conventional farmers are so well, many without financial liquidity to survive consecutive bad seasons. Fields for sale, got any QE?
35. eco maori 35

    6 August 2018 at 8:40 am

    Good morning The Am Show I ‘m going to tautoko our Tangata whenua Austrailan cousin in my next post.
    I can see that’s national are trying to ramp up paula bennett profile she already know’s there goal someone is being used as a human sheald they are going to try and copy Labour .
    I tautoko any free education for the mokopuna’s and giving employers the dole to educate 4000 people is a good start by Labour .
    I think a tax break for employers who up skill there employees is a good idea but giving every employer a tax break for apprenticeships will leave the door open to cheats.
    I would like to see a system were the employer does not get his mone till the employee get there tickets .
    Space is were we have to go its the future when is the big question .
    Eco Maori says that Papatuanuku Peace is what is needed to help mittergate climate change World Peace. Ka kite ano.
36. eco maori 36

    6 August 2018 at 8:59 am

    I say we don’t need to be wasting time on that other line that trump likes to use to rark up people emotions its like the race religion new word terrorist the old version savages.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/106031412/andrew-little-caught-up-in-pretty-terrifying-lombok-quake Ka kite ano
37. eco maori 37

    6 August 2018 at 12:20 pm

    The Australian tangata whenua have been give a real bad deal by the state it will be very similar to what has happened to Aotearoa tangata whenua our cultures have a lot of in-common the way we think of Papatuanuku Tangaroa Rangi all the important atua they are part of te tangata Europeans just don’t get it or refuse to get it.
    Eco Maori has some advice for our cousins across the Tasman sea Promote your great culture Promote your Wahine get your tangata into local goverment and Canberra this is the only way to get the state systems to work for you and not against you.
    Don’t be radical because you have to take all Australians on this journey of Promoting your Great culture teach all Australians about the reality of how bad the state has treated your tangata let them know that you just want to be treated as Equals and not a second class citizen another great tool to get justice is to have all Australian tangata whenua to have one voice one political movement. there are many people with ties to tangata whenua and when they see how great your culture is they will tautoko your culture and the changes the state need’s to make to put your culture in its right full place on Papatuanuku Equal with all cultures I say better . Ka kite ano link below .

    https://e-tangata.co.nz/reflections/old-certainties-old-prejudices-old-fears-are-losing-their-grip/ P.S Eco Maori knows indigenous cultures care about there mokopunas future and the enviroment more than the settlors Kia kaha
38. eco maori 38

    6 August 2018 at 1:45 pm

    This is a exerlint link to a story to help Kiwi’s and Maori everyone understand Aotearoa tangata whenua culture this is how Eco Maori see reality Kia kaha all tangata

    https://e-tangata.co.nz/reflections/old-certainties-old-prejudices-old-fears-are-losing-their-grip/ ENJOY
39. eco maori 39

    6 August 2018 at 6:50 pm

    Good evening Newshub Condolences to all the tangata who lost love ones in the earth Quakes in Indonesia. I have seen a $300. million company go bank rupt no one lost there jobs just new liquidator administration why is that not the case now has shonky changed the laws so banks get there pound of flesh before anyone else.
    judith collins just splashed mud on her own face aaaaaaaaaaaa crusher showing her true colors
    Yes you got to watch a cow with a calf they can be quite protective of there calf I have seen many people have problems with them .They could be lacking magnesium remember to respect Papatuanuku creates.
    Is that the reason that trump plucked out the Kiwi act to let OUR fire fighters get into America .
    Thats innovation the card game that teaches mokopunas to identifies invasive insects that could be accidentally imported
    Thats the reason Why I say the Quoter Management system does not work as well as other systems around the Papatuanuku corruption and over fishing then they see the stock is low and drop the Quoter this could cause some fish to go extinct.
    Ka kite ano
40. eco maori 40

    6 August 2018 at 7:22 pm

    The Crowd Goes Wild Mulls and James The AB Couch can’t pick every one we have a lot of talented player in Aotearoa .
    Eco Maori’s favorite League team had a good win this weeked go The Warriors Kia kaha
    I was busy riding my horse I only went to school when we had cooking classes and wood metal work classes Ka kite ano P.S I owe the Rock radio for helping me with the Eco Maori effect Mulls Jen Rodge Bryce John Brad thanks

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